1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:22,676 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey y'all, today we are welcoming the Swedish born 2 00:00:22,756 --> 00:00:26,196 Speaker 1: singer Nana Cherry to the show. Nana's four decade long 3 00:00:26,316 --> 00:00:30,556 Speaker 1: career has ricocheted between a number of genres, including hip hop, jazz, 4 00:00:30,636 --> 00:00:33,876 Speaker 1: trip pop, and punk. Her first single in eighty eight, 5 00:00:33,916 --> 00:00:37,396 Speaker 1: Buffalo Stance, cemented her standing as a no nonsense black 6 00:00:37,396 --> 00:00:41,276 Speaker 1: feminist voice in contemporary urban music. Cherry was living in 7 00:00:41,356 --> 00:00:44,076 Speaker 1: London when her debut album Raw Like Sushi was released. 8 00:00:44,516 --> 00:00:47,636 Speaker 1: At the time, she was collaborating with genre defining nineties 9 00:00:47,676 --> 00:00:50,436 Speaker 1: electro dance acts like sold A Soul and Massive Attack. 10 00:00:51,236 --> 00:00:54,316 Speaker 1: This year, Non released her sixth album, The Versions. It's 11 00:00:54,316 --> 00:00:56,876 Speaker 1: a collection of cover songs of some of Cherry's biggest 12 00:00:56,916 --> 00:01:00,996 Speaker 1: hits and is performed exclusively by female artists, including Robin 13 00:01:01,236 --> 00:01:05,516 Speaker 1: Sia and Nana's daughter Tyson. On today's episode, Bruce Hellam 14 00:01:05,596 --> 00:01:08,596 Speaker 1: talks to Nana Cherry about her bohemian upbringing in Sweden, 15 00:01:08,716 --> 00:01:12,676 Speaker 1: New York and London. Was stepdad Don Cherry, the famous 16 00:01:12,756 --> 00:01:16,316 Speaker 1: jazz trumpetist. Nana also recalls how she first met the 17 00:01:16,396 --> 00:01:20,196 Speaker 1: legendary all girl punk group The Slits and why despite 18 00:01:20,196 --> 00:01:22,916 Speaker 1: scoring her first big hit with a cheeky rat verse. 19 00:01:23,316 --> 00:01:30,196 Speaker 1: She never considered herself a real MC. This is broken 20 00:01:30,236 --> 00:01:33,636 Speaker 1: record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. 21 00:01:34,276 --> 00:01:37,476 Speaker 1: Here's Bruce Hudlam with Nana Cherry. So we're here to 22 00:01:37,476 --> 00:01:40,556 Speaker 1: talk about the new album, which is The Versions, Yes, 23 00:01:40,756 --> 00:01:44,356 Speaker 1: which is your first in four or five years, right, yeah, 24 00:01:44,356 --> 00:01:46,876 Speaker 1: And it's a kind of new style of album because 25 00:01:46,916 --> 00:01:50,476 Speaker 1: I'm not really on it so m which has been 26 00:01:50,636 --> 00:01:54,236 Speaker 1: kind of an incredible experience. Is your voice snuck in 27 00:01:54,316 --> 00:01:56,436 Speaker 1: here or there? I thought I heard it. I don't 28 00:01:56,676 --> 00:02:00,196 Speaker 1: know whether it's someone has sampled it or but you know, 29 00:02:00,276 --> 00:02:05,236 Speaker 1: it's really an idea that was hatched after the reissue 30 00:02:05,276 --> 00:02:09,996 Speaker 1: of Rolling Sus she came out. Honey Dijon, my beloved 31 00:02:09,996 --> 00:02:14,236 Speaker 1: Honey Dijon made a remix of Buddy X, which kind 32 00:02:14,236 --> 00:02:16,196 Speaker 1: of came out at the same time, and that kind 33 00:02:16,196 --> 00:02:20,236 Speaker 1: of then hatched an idea to well, to ask other 34 00:02:20,356 --> 00:02:23,756 Speaker 1: people to cover the songs. Initially it was going to 35 00:02:23,836 --> 00:02:27,516 Speaker 1: be just the songs on Roll Like Sushi. We were like, well, 36 00:02:27,636 --> 00:02:31,316 Speaker 1: let's reach out to like, for instance, Robin, who's a 37 00:02:31,356 --> 00:02:35,356 Speaker 1: great friend and my sister and someone I really consider 38 00:02:35,716 --> 00:02:39,476 Speaker 1: to be a great inspiration. But like I also know 39 00:02:39,596 --> 00:02:42,836 Speaker 1: that she kind of grew up with role like sushi, 40 00:02:42,956 --> 00:02:45,476 Speaker 1: so in a way, it was a kind of no brainer. 41 00:02:45,556 --> 00:02:48,436 Speaker 1: So she was maybe one of the first people that 42 00:02:48,516 --> 00:02:53,476 Speaker 1: we asked, and then saying Abousset, who is also a 43 00:02:53,516 --> 00:02:58,956 Speaker 1: Swedish artist with Gambian background, She's amazing, and then it 44 00:02:59,076 --> 00:03:02,956 Speaker 1: just again it was like a funny little domino effect, 45 00:03:03,356 --> 00:03:06,396 Speaker 1: and it was just kind of a joy because I 46 00:03:06,476 --> 00:03:11,596 Speaker 1: was like just reaching out like the artists that I 47 00:03:11,676 --> 00:03:16,596 Speaker 1: was listening to that seemed to be out there being 48 00:03:17,276 --> 00:03:21,356 Speaker 1: very much themselves and kind of breaking new molds, you know, 49 00:03:21,476 --> 00:03:26,316 Speaker 1: so females. I mean, it's a female led project. You know, 50 00:03:26,916 --> 00:03:30,716 Speaker 1: just looking over your career, you don't seem like someone 51 00:03:30,716 --> 00:03:35,356 Speaker 1: who likes revisiting things. Every album is something new. Broken 52 00:03:35,396 --> 00:03:39,436 Speaker 1: Politics is different than the album before. The album before 53 00:03:39,476 --> 00:03:42,476 Speaker 1: that was the Jazz record. What's it like to go 54 00:03:42,556 --> 00:03:47,316 Speaker 1: back and revisit things. I think there is something quite 55 00:03:47,356 --> 00:03:52,996 Speaker 1: important about revisiting things. And You're right, I have always 56 00:03:53,276 --> 00:03:58,236 Speaker 1: been slightly allergic to relying on the past. I've always 57 00:03:58,276 --> 00:04:03,036 Speaker 1: felt like I want to move forward because I feel 58 00:04:03,036 --> 00:04:06,716 Speaker 1: so unfinished and I feel like I'm always battling with 59 00:04:06,796 --> 00:04:12,516 Speaker 1: my own insecurity and demons, as in, like the things 60 00:04:12,596 --> 00:04:17,076 Speaker 1: around me that question whether not necessarily whether I'm doing 61 00:04:17,116 --> 00:04:20,956 Speaker 1: things good enough, but whether I'm reaching the things that 62 00:04:21,116 --> 00:04:23,796 Speaker 1: I feel that I need, that I want to tap 63 00:04:23,876 --> 00:04:28,956 Speaker 1: into or express or to be open enough for those 64 00:04:28,996 --> 00:04:33,516 Speaker 1: things to flow out. Yeah, and also like being a 65 00:04:33,516 --> 00:04:35,876 Speaker 1: bit scared of getting caught in some sort of like 66 00:04:35,876 --> 00:04:40,236 Speaker 1: a karaoke hell hole, you know, where you're just relying 67 00:04:40,556 --> 00:04:45,036 Speaker 1: on and rehatching things that have already been done because 68 00:04:45,076 --> 00:04:48,556 Speaker 1: that's what people maybe recognize or know the best. Or 69 00:04:48,956 --> 00:04:53,836 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm fifty eight and maybe in that movement 70 00:04:53,996 --> 00:04:59,716 Speaker 1: of looking forward, always kind of pushed through and pushed ahead. 71 00:05:00,876 --> 00:05:03,876 Speaker 1: Hopefully maybe if I'm lucky, I'm just like a little 72 00:05:03,876 --> 00:05:07,916 Speaker 1: bit over halfway through my life. I think it's important 73 00:05:07,956 --> 00:05:12,196 Speaker 1: to kind of take stop so revisiting these songs because 74 00:05:12,196 --> 00:05:14,396 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of what you were asking has 75 00:05:14,436 --> 00:05:18,436 Speaker 1: become a very beautiful thing, especially as it's through the 76 00:05:18,516 --> 00:05:22,636 Speaker 1: eyes of other people. And and a lot of the 77 00:05:22,756 --> 00:05:26,076 Speaker 1: artists are kind of another generation to me, a younger generation. 78 00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:29,316 Speaker 1: I mean, Okay, we try not to over obsess, but 79 00:05:29,436 --> 00:05:32,516 Speaker 1: you know, you hope that when you have a good song, 80 00:05:33,236 --> 00:05:37,476 Speaker 1: that that song has its own legs that other people 81 00:05:37,516 --> 00:05:40,316 Speaker 1: can use to walk or run with, you know. And 82 00:05:40,396 --> 00:05:46,916 Speaker 1: so it's been like a very cathartic but beautiful journey, 83 00:05:47,356 --> 00:05:50,796 Speaker 1: and I feel very connected to all of the different 84 00:05:50,996 --> 00:05:55,716 Speaker 1: artists that have Sudan archives. Kelsey Loon, Green, Tea Pang, 85 00:05:55,756 --> 00:05:58,836 Speaker 1: My daughter Tyson did a song, your daughter who was 86 00:05:58,876 --> 00:06:02,596 Speaker 1: a famous history with Buffalo Stance. Yeah, she was in utero, 87 00:06:02,796 --> 00:06:09,236 Speaker 1: she was. She was in utero throughout most of the 88 00:06:09,236 --> 00:06:13,196 Speaker 1: the journey of making the album, and you know, Top 89 00:06:13,236 --> 00:06:15,676 Speaker 1: of the Pops and the kind of early days you 90 00:06:15,756 --> 00:06:19,116 Speaker 1: get criticized from being pregnant on the people wrote about 91 00:06:19,116 --> 00:06:22,676 Speaker 1: it like you were it was child abuse, or you'd 92 00:06:22,676 --> 00:06:26,356 Speaker 1: thrown yourself down the stairs in a Victorian novel or something, yeah, 93 00:06:26,476 --> 00:06:28,196 Speaker 1: or like you know, I was going to hurt the 94 00:06:28,316 --> 00:06:31,436 Speaker 1: child dancing around and you know that I should be 95 00:06:31,476 --> 00:06:35,276 Speaker 1: draped in a big black cape or something. And definitely 96 00:06:35,636 --> 00:06:38,996 Speaker 1: not on Top of the Pops, which was like the 97 00:06:39,036 --> 00:06:42,756 Speaker 1: biggest thing that happened on a once a week on television, 98 00:06:42,876 --> 00:06:45,556 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I wasn't trying to be some 99 00:06:45,716 --> 00:06:47,756 Speaker 1: kind of a game changer, do you know what I mean? 100 00:06:47,796 --> 00:06:50,036 Speaker 1: Like a lot of people are like, oh wow, that 101 00:06:50,156 --> 00:06:53,796 Speaker 1: was so like amazing. I was just pregnant and and 102 00:06:53,836 --> 00:06:57,236 Speaker 1: I didn't want to hide it and also like wanting 103 00:06:57,316 --> 00:07:00,196 Speaker 1: to do things in a different way. And I think 104 00:07:00,356 --> 00:07:04,036 Speaker 1: before I put out Buffalo Stance and before I started 105 00:07:04,076 --> 00:07:07,396 Speaker 1: working on role like Sushi, I had always been in 106 00:07:07,476 --> 00:07:11,236 Speaker 1: bands and I'd always in and like that family, you know, 107 00:07:11,236 --> 00:07:12,556 Speaker 1: And it was so it was the first time that 108 00:07:12,596 --> 00:07:16,596 Speaker 1: I kind of stepped out by myself and I felt 109 00:07:16,716 --> 00:07:21,676 Speaker 1: very well in a kind of fighting spirit of like, yes, 110 00:07:21,956 --> 00:07:26,036 Speaker 1: I am here, I am a young woman, but I'm 111 00:07:26,076 --> 00:07:31,836 Speaker 1: going to step over the loop holes. He was like, 112 00:07:32,476 --> 00:07:36,156 Speaker 1: we're going to kick the door down instead of strutting 113 00:07:36,156 --> 00:07:40,996 Speaker 1: out uncomfortably in a pair of uncomfortable heels. I want 114 00:07:41,036 --> 00:07:42,476 Speaker 1: to get back to that album and of course the 115 00:07:42,516 --> 00:07:45,116 Speaker 1: new album. But we should talk a bit about your background. 116 00:07:45,356 --> 00:07:48,396 Speaker 1: You grew up in this bohemian family. Your stepfather was 117 00:07:49,236 --> 00:07:53,596 Speaker 1: famous jazz trumpet player Don Cherry, who played with Ornette 118 00:07:53,636 --> 00:07:57,676 Speaker 1: Coleman and John Coltrane. And tell us about your mother 119 00:07:57,676 --> 00:08:01,196 Speaker 1: as well. My mother's name was Moki Cherry, and she 120 00:08:01,516 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 1: was an incredible woman. She was an artist. She was 121 00:08:05,436 --> 00:08:10,476 Speaker 1: a very creative person. I think when Don came the 122 00:08:10,516 --> 00:08:12,876 Speaker 1: first time he came to Sweden. He was playing with 123 00:08:12,996 --> 00:08:16,476 Speaker 1: Archie Shepp in the concert who setting stock on the 124 00:08:16,556 --> 00:08:19,596 Speaker 1: concert house, and it was the famous night at the 125 00:08:19,676 --> 00:08:23,956 Speaker 1: concert house when the basement caught on fire, you know, 126 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:27,396 Speaker 1: and everyone or anyone that was there will refer to 127 00:08:27,436 --> 00:08:30,716 Speaker 1: it as the night the stage caught on fire and 128 00:08:30,836 --> 00:08:35,916 Speaker 1: no one moved, you know, because the music was hotter 129 00:08:37,836 --> 00:08:40,596 Speaker 1: then the flames were going to be. There was smoke 130 00:08:40,676 --> 00:08:42,916 Speaker 1: coming up through the stage, and you know, people were 131 00:08:42,956 --> 00:08:47,196 Speaker 1: just sitting there and I don't know whether they just 132 00:08:47,396 --> 00:08:51,396 Speaker 1: kind of put the fire out downstairs or whether they 133 00:08:51,436 --> 00:08:53,956 Speaker 1: took a break, but I think they just kept playing. 134 00:08:54,436 --> 00:08:58,516 Speaker 1: And I know that when Don saw my mother and 135 00:08:58,596 --> 00:09:01,236 Speaker 1: he said, oh he was. She was wearing this bamboo 136 00:09:01,316 --> 00:09:05,556 Speaker 1: glasses and this kind of leather skirt thing that she'd made, 137 00:09:05,596 --> 00:09:10,156 Speaker 1: and she she was MOOKI was always ahead of her time, 138 00:09:10,596 --> 00:09:14,476 Speaker 1: and so he definitely saw her. And then he came 139 00:09:14,476 --> 00:09:16,556 Speaker 1: back a few months later, and that's kind of when 140 00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:20,876 Speaker 1: they got together. My mother was someone who I think, 141 00:09:20,916 --> 00:09:24,116 Speaker 1: from like a really young age, knew that she wanted to, 142 00:09:24,876 --> 00:09:27,796 Speaker 1: you know, in her own way and through her own voice, 143 00:09:28,596 --> 00:09:30,876 Speaker 1: be a part of making the world a more beautiful 144 00:09:30,916 --> 00:09:34,956 Speaker 1: place and they collaborated on things. They collaborated, you know, 145 00:09:35,036 --> 00:09:39,436 Speaker 1: for many years. I mean, their life story until they 146 00:09:39,436 --> 00:09:44,436 Speaker 1: couldn't live together anymore, was was a collaboration, you know. 147 00:09:44,836 --> 00:09:51,116 Speaker 1: And I think the thing that's very important to to recognize, 148 00:09:51,276 --> 00:09:55,076 Speaker 1: but I think that anyone that knew Moki and knew 149 00:09:55,156 --> 00:09:59,316 Speaker 1: down would say that she made it possible, like she 150 00:09:59,436 --> 00:10:03,916 Speaker 1: helped him find his wings, you know. And there's a 151 00:10:03,956 --> 00:10:08,236 Speaker 1: cute story where the first time they had slept together, 152 00:10:08,396 --> 00:10:11,556 Speaker 1: you know, spend a night together, Don had fallen asleep 153 00:10:11,556 --> 00:10:14,276 Speaker 1: and when he woke up, she had died his long 154 00:10:14,356 --> 00:10:19,516 Speaker 1: underwear pink and it was like she'd probably done that 155 00:10:19,556 --> 00:10:22,516 Speaker 1: in a in a pot on the stove. You know. 156 00:10:23,116 --> 00:10:25,596 Speaker 1: We didn't have a washing machine in those days. So 157 00:10:25,996 --> 00:10:28,316 Speaker 1: and they were just probably hanging on a line in 158 00:10:28,356 --> 00:10:31,836 Speaker 1: the in the room. Well that's when you know you've overslept, Yeah, 159 00:10:32,716 --> 00:10:35,196 Speaker 1: die were you just waking up just at the right time. 160 00:10:36,116 --> 00:10:41,316 Speaker 1: But um, so you know they had a very creative relationship. 161 00:10:41,596 --> 00:10:43,676 Speaker 1: So what was that like growing up in that household? 162 00:10:44,316 --> 00:10:47,476 Speaker 1: I mean, that's quite a difficult question to answer. In 163 00:10:47,516 --> 00:10:49,916 Speaker 1: a way, I feel such a great sense of kind 164 00:10:49,956 --> 00:10:53,036 Speaker 1: of privilege that I grew up in the world that 165 00:10:53,116 --> 00:10:55,316 Speaker 1: I grew up in, you know, like it's such a 166 00:10:55,636 --> 00:10:58,796 Speaker 1: it's such a blessing. I mean, I guess I heard 167 00:10:58,876 --> 00:11:02,036 Speaker 1: music before I was born, right, And I think that 168 00:11:02,116 --> 00:11:06,756 Speaker 1: like the world that was within our house, it didn't 169 00:11:06,796 --> 00:11:09,916 Speaker 1: look like anywhere else around in the neighborhoo, you know, 170 00:11:09,996 --> 00:11:13,636 Speaker 1: which was kind of sort of stressful for me sometimes 171 00:11:14,556 --> 00:11:18,236 Speaker 1: because I wanted to a certain degree, even though I 172 00:11:18,316 --> 00:11:21,036 Speaker 1: was very much at home in my home, but for 173 00:11:21,076 --> 00:11:24,876 Speaker 1: it to be like everybody else's homes, you know, and 174 00:11:24,916 --> 00:11:27,436 Speaker 1: we had like we would sit on the floor, you 175 00:11:27,476 --> 00:11:29,236 Speaker 1: know what I mean. We didn't have a couch. We 176 00:11:29,276 --> 00:11:32,356 Speaker 1: had a low cut table. Then eventually we did have 177 00:11:32,396 --> 00:11:35,836 Speaker 1: a couch, but you know, we ate lentils and brown 178 00:11:35,956 --> 00:11:41,236 Speaker 1: rice and we didn't eat mashed potatoes. And you know, 179 00:11:41,556 --> 00:11:43,796 Speaker 1: I would also like to stress because I think that 180 00:11:44,396 --> 00:11:47,236 Speaker 1: something that I fight with is this sort of people's 181 00:11:47,236 --> 00:11:51,036 Speaker 1: opinions of like, oh, it was all very I mean, 182 00:11:51,076 --> 00:11:54,316 Speaker 1: the word bohemian, I think is more respectful than oh, 183 00:11:54,356 --> 00:11:56,476 Speaker 1: you guys were just a bunch of hippies, and you know, 184 00:11:56,516 --> 00:12:00,516 Speaker 1: everyone just sort of laid around and smoked a lot 185 00:12:00,556 --> 00:12:04,316 Speaker 1: of weed, and you know, and yeah, okay, people smoke 186 00:12:04,396 --> 00:12:09,236 Speaker 1: some weed. But I think that sometimes it overrides the 187 00:12:09,276 --> 00:12:13,516 Speaker 1: incredible process that people like my parents and a lot 188 00:12:13,556 --> 00:12:17,436 Speaker 1: of their peers put into the work that they did, 189 00:12:17,516 --> 00:12:21,676 Speaker 1: which was very serious. You know, there was an absolute 190 00:12:22,156 --> 00:12:30,596 Speaker 1: commitment to the journey the work. You know, on a social, political, family, life, 191 00:12:31,036 --> 00:12:34,996 Speaker 1: sonic level. Do you have the same work habits as 192 00:12:35,036 --> 00:12:39,556 Speaker 1: your parents? No? You know, Don played all day every 193 00:12:39,636 --> 00:12:42,956 Speaker 1: day he was with his instruments, walking down the street. 194 00:12:43,036 --> 00:12:46,836 Speaker 1: He would play the flute or his Hunter's guitar from 195 00:12:46,836 --> 00:12:51,316 Speaker 1: Molly the Dzunguni. I mean, it was just a part 196 00:12:51,356 --> 00:12:56,796 Speaker 1: of the movement, his movement. You know, I can hand 197 00:12:56,836 --> 00:13:00,516 Speaker 1: on heart say that I wish, if I had any 198 00:13:00,556 --> 00:13:05,076 Speaker 1: regrets in my life, that I had worked harder, been 199 00:13:05,116 --> 00:13:11,036 Speaker 1: more disciplined with my songwriting and making music all the time. 200 00:13:11,076 --> 00:13:13,836 Speaker 1: I think sometimes I've finished an album and then I've 201 00:13:13,916 --> 00:13:17,276 Speaker 1: kind of closed the door and kind of gone out 202 00:13:17,356 --> 00:13:22,156 Speaker 1: into life and not stayed with it. And I think 203 00:13:22,196 --> 00:13:26,796 Speaker 1: my mother's process, I mean, being a woman and running 204 00:13:26,836 --> 00:13:30,676 Speaker 1: a house and a family that consumed I mean the 205 00:13:30,876 --> 00:13:35,156 Speaker 1: same as for me, consumed a lot of her time, 206 00:13:35,236 --> 00:13:38,436 Speaker 1: and for her it was also a schlep sometimes but 207 00:13:38,596 --> 00:13:42,036 Speaker 1: also a part of her creative process in a way. 208 00:13:43,036 --> 00:13:46,676 Speaker 1: But it also took her away from her art, and 209 00:13:46,716 --> 00:13:49,196 Speaker 1: I know that she really struggled with that. But when 210 00:13:49,236 --> 00:13:55,276 Speaker 1: she worked, she really worked incredibly hard. It's something I've heard, 211 00:13:55,356 --> 00:13:57,876 Speaker 1: you know, from a lot of female artistside, yeah, interviewed 212 00:13:57,916 --> 00:14:00,036 Speaker 1: if they're a bit older, and I'll say, oh, you 213 00:14:00,076 --> 00:14:01,836 Speaker 1: took some time off. They're like, well, yeah, I had 214 00:14:01,876 --> 00:14:04,676 Speaker 1: a family. Yeah. You know, Mick Jagger doesn't take time 215 00:14:04,716 --> 00:14:08,636 Speaker 1: off when he is a family. No, he doesn't ask to. 216 00:14:10,836 --> 00:14:13,796 Speaker 1: So what kind of kid were you then growing up? 217 00:14:14,276 --> 00:14:17,356 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I've always been quite independent. We 218 00:14:17,476 --> 00:14:20,196 Speaker 1: lived on Ninth Street and Second Avenue when I was 219 00:14:20,236 --> 00:14:24,676 Speaker 1: about eight, and we'd been before we moved into that place. 220 00:14:24,716 --> 00:14:27,196 Speaker 1: We'd been staying at the Chelsea Hotel where I've just 221 00:14:27,276 --> 00:14:30,516 Speaker 1: come from today, and I had a friend there who 222 00:14:30,596 --> 00:14:33,956 Speaker 1: was the daughter of a painter called Our Loving I believe, 223 00:14:34,316 --> 00:14:36,916 Speaker 1: and she was living in the Chelsea too. We'd moved 224 00:14:36,916 --> 00:14:39,156 Speaker 1: to nine Street and when we got down to ninth 225 00:14:39,156 --> 00:14:40,716 Speaker 1: Street after a couple of days, I was like, oh, 226 00:14:40,716 --> 00:14:43,436 Speaker 1: I want to see Anne, and my mother went, okay, 227 00:14:43,436 --> 00:14:46,716 Speaker 1: well you can walk there. So if you go all 228 00:14:46,756 --> 00:14:49,796 Speaker 1: the way on Second Avenue to twenty third Street, and 229 00:14:49,836 --> 00:14:52,156 Speaker 1: then you go all the way up on twenty third 230 00:14:52,236 --> 00:14:55,116 Speaker 1: Street to whatever eighth and between seventh and eighth and 231 00:14:55,156 --> 00:14:58,396 Speaker 1: eighth and ninth, you'll get there. And you know, I 232 00:14:58,516 --> 00:15:01,116 Speaker 1: did that, and I think now like I would never 233 00:15:01,276 --> 00:15:05,996 Speaker 1: have set out well on one of those walks. So 234 00:15:06,076 --> 00:15:11,956 Speaker 1: I think I was quite independent and very sensitive, but 235 00:15:12,156 --> 00:15:17,716 Speaker 1: also determined to be okay. And I think sometimes that 236 00:15:17,836 --> 00:15:22,876 Speaker 1: determination has meant that I have also shut down certain 237 00:15:22,956 --> 00:15:25,876 Speaker 1: things to kind of feel all right, which I've dealt 238 00:15:25,876 --> 00:15:30,796 Speaker 1: with later in life, stress or difficult things for everything 239 00:15:30,836 --> 00:15:33,276 Speaker 1: to kind of to be fine. And you know, there 240 00:15:33,356 --> 00:15:36,756 Speaker 1: was a big contrast, of course between like being in 241 00:15:36,796 --> 00:15:40,236 Speaker 1: the forest in Sweden where my parents bought a house 242 00:15:40,276 --> 00:15:44,236 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy an old schoolhouse, and then on a 243 00:15:44,316 --> 00:15:47,356 Speaker 1: regular basis coming to live in New York, which I'm 244 00:15:47,836 --> 00:15:50,676 Speaker 1: so thankful for because I think I would have been 245 00:15:50,676 --> 00:15:53,716 Speaker 1: a very different person if I had just spent the 246 00:15:53,756 --> 00:15:57,756 Speaker 1: first sixteen years of my life in Sweden. We're gonna 247 00:15:57,756 --> 00:15:59,556 Speaker 1: take a quick break, but we'll be right back with 248 00:15:59,636 --> 00:16:06,356 Speaker 1: more from Bruce Heedlam and Nana Cherry. We're back with 249 00:16:06,396 --> 00:16:09,836 Speaker 1: more of Bruce Helam's conversation with Nana Cherry. Do you 250 00:16:09,836 --> 00:16:13,596 Speaker 1: remember forming your own musical taste. I mean your stepdad 251 00:16:13,636 --> 00:16:16,196 Speaker 1: was playing trumpet all the time, because that's what professional 252 00:16:16,316 --> 00:16:18,756 Speaker 1: jazz musicians have to do. Was there a point you 253 00:16:18,796 --> 00:16:21,516 Speaker 1: were listening to something else and saying, well, this is 254 00:16:21,556 --> 00:16:24,356 Speaker 1: what I wanted with the Beatles, whatever it was. I mean, 255 00:16:25,076 --> 00:16:29,596 Speaker 1: the problem is it's a problem is that if you 256 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:33,516 Speaker 1: look into the record collection that we still have, which 257 00:16:33,596 --> 00:16:36,076 Speaker 1: was like the record collection that I grew up with, 258 00:16:36,116 --> 00:16:38,796 Speaker 1: obviously things have been added to it over the years. 259 00:16:39,436 --> 00:16:44,236 Speaker 1: It was such a mixture of stuff. So like my 260 00:16:44,316 --> 00:16:51,316 Speaker 1: parents listened to everything from like recording made in the 261 00:16:51,436 --> 00:16:57,396 Speaker 1: rainforest in in Zaire to the Commodores or the Rolling 262 00:16:57,436 --> 00:17:02,156 Speaker 1: Stones or you know, so within that music I found 263 00:17:02,196 --> 00:17:05,956 Speaker 1: my own shit. You know, like don bought and he 264 00:17:06,036 --> 00:17:09,556 Speaker 1: was always like buying whatever was coming out. So I 265 00:17:09,556 --> 00:17:13,276 Speaker 1: can remember being like six and listening to the Jackson five, 266 00:17:13,556 --> 00:17:17,036 Speaker 1: the first Diana Ross Presents to Jackson five or Sly 267 00:17:17,116 --> 00:17:21,756 Speaker 1: in the Family Stone and having favorites. I mean growing 268 00:17:21,836 --> 00:17:24,036 Speaker 1: up in Sweden in the seventies, I mean all my 269 00:17:24,116 --> 00:17:27,476 Speaker 1: friends were listening to like English music like the Sweet 270 00:17:27,556 --> 00:17:30,076 Speaker 1: and a lot of my friends at school were like 271 00:17:30,116 --> 00:17:32,916 Speaker 1: into Donnie Osmond and stuff, and I was, you know, 272 00:17:33,196 --> 00:17:37,116 Speaker 1: it was like kind of surreal. And of course some 273 00:17:37,196 --> 00:17:40,316 Speaker 1: of those classic like Sparks records and some of those 274 00:17:40,436 --> 00:17:45,956 Speaker 1: you know, British kind of glam pop tunes. Abba. Yeah, 275 00:17:45,996 --> 00:17:48,556 Speaker 1: you know. I spent a whole summer like miming to 276 00:17:49,036 --> 00:17:51,436 Speaker 1: Abba songs with my friend. We did a whole show. 277 00:17:52,356 --> 00:17:54,636 Speaker 1: And then I, like I was eleven, I went to 278 00:17:54,836 --> 00:17:59,276 Speaker 1: LA to stay with my family there and I discovered 279 00:17:59,356 --> 00:18:02,036 Speaker 1: like songs in the Key of Life Stevie Wonder and 280 00:18:02,156 --> 00:18:06,356 Speaker 1: Johnny Guitar Watson and so it's all these parallels. And 281 00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:10,516 Speaker 1: then at like fifteen fourteen fifteen, I got into punk. 282 00:18:11,356 --> 00:18:13,796 Speaker 1: It was punk. Was that what told you that you 283 00:18:13,836 --> 00:18:16,476 Speaker 1: wanted to do this for a living? Yeah? I think 284 00:18:16,516 --> 00:18:18,716 Speaker 1: so it was there a song or an album that 285 00:18:19,236 --> 00:18:24,756 Speaker 1: just grabbed you. X rayspects poly Styrene for sure. I 286 00:18:24,796 --> 00:18:28,476 Speaker 1: think also her being like one of the only other 287 00:18:28,516 --> 00:18:31,196 Speaker 1: women of color like on the punk scene there really 288 00:18:31,236 --> 00:18:35,476 Speaker 1: wasn't that that many was obviously a thing. And then 289 00:18:35,516 --> 00:18:39,276 Speaker 1: just her vibe but like she had braces on her teeth, 290 00:18:39,836 --> 00:18:43,356 Speaker 1: she just made it looked so amazing, and her voice 291 00:18:43,916 --> 00:18:47,996 Speaker 1: has this resonance and then this kind of bridge sonically 292 00:18:48,076 --> 00:18:52,476 Speaker 1: that she made between almost like a kind of folky 293 00:18:52,756 --> 00:18:56,356 Speaker 1: kind of tonality to then also being her music being 294 00:18:56,436 --> 00:19:01,236 Speaker 1: very soulful. And I think I definitely found my voice 295 00:19:02,076 --> 00:19:06,196 Speaker 1: singing along. Now, had you had you done formal music lessons, 296 00:19:06,236 --> 00:19:10,156 Speaker 1: because no, not really. I mean, because you know something particularly, 297 00:19:10,156 --> 00:19:12,356 Speaker 1: and I want to talk about man Child later. You know, 298 00:19:12,396 --> 00:19:17,396 Speaker 1: that's it's a beautiful melody, and it's very sophisticated chords. 299 00:19:17,036 --> 00:19:20,916 Speaker 1: It's it's a very unusual song. It's very complex, it's 300 00:19:20,956 --> 00:19:24,316 Speaker 1: got different modes in it. Were those just things you 301 00:19:24,356 --> 00:19:27,156 Speaker 1: were sensitive to? It was not something Yeah, I was 302 00:19:27,196 --> 00:19:31,996 Speaker 1: just following. I was working with an autochord, a cassio 303 00:19:32,116 --> 00:19:37,076 Speaker 1: keyboard that had an autochord settings on the left hand side, 304 00:19:37,476 --> 00:19:42,796 Speaker 1: and I had one or two kind of melodies which 305 00:19:42,836 --> 00:19:44,916 Speaker 1: were the you know, is it the pain of the 306 00:19:44,996 --> 00:19:48,076 Speaker 1: drinking or the Sunday sinking feeling, which were the two 307 00:19:48,836 --> 00:19:52,356 Speaker 1: first lines in the first verse, and then I just 308 00:19:52,436 --> 00:19:55,316 Speaker 1: think I I sat with the auto chord, and I 309 00:19:55,516 --> 00:19:59,596 Speaker 1: remember particularly in the second verse, and it just took 310 00:19:59,636 --> 00:20:03,676 Speaker 1: the melodies into another place and I just kind of 311 00:20:04,036 --> 00:20:06,956 Speaker 1: went went with it, and I just kind of kept 312 00:20:06,956 --> 00:20:11,076 Speaker 1: my little tape recorder going so again, it was this 313 00:20:11,156 --> 00:20:14,196 Speaker 1: kind of weird instinctual thing. So when someone comes in 314 00:20:14,236 --> 00:20:18,116 Speaker 1: and says there's an e flat Dorian, You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, 315 00:20:18,516 --> 00:20:21,516 Speaker 1: And I'm in fact my dad was like, you know, 316 00:20:21,596 --> 00:20:26,276 Speaker 1: you had seven chords in the verse. That's pretty okay, cool, 317 00:20:26,356 --> 00:20:30,356 Speaker 1: yeah whatever. So, Punkers, what took you back to England? Right? Punkers? 318 00:20:30,356 --> 00:20:32,836 Speaker 1: What took me to England in the first place? Really 319 00:20:33,516 --> 00:20:35,996 Speaker 1: we didn't really It was not a place that I 320 00:20:36,036 --> 00:20:38,596 Speaker 1: had really spent any time and growing up. And you 321 00:20:38,636 --> 00:20:40,756 Speaker 1: went pretty young, but I went young. I mean I 322 00:20:40,836 --> 00:20:43,716 Speaker 1: was sixteen and when I went there were your parents like, 323 00:20:44,436 --> 00:20:47,436 Speaker 1: good luck, try and try and make a career in music. No, 324 00:20:47,756 --> 00:20:50,556 Speaker 1: I mean it didn't really happen like that. It's funny. 325 00:20:50,676 --> 00:20:53,836 Speaker 1: I was just on a journey, I guess, you know, 326 00:20:53,876 --> 00:20:59,236 Speaker 1: I'd been I'd met the Slits, Arie and vivin Tessa. 327 00:20:59,756 --> 00:21:02,276 Speaker 1: When my you know, when this is another thing, like 328 00:21:02,636 --> 00:21:05,516 Speaker 1: so many of the threads of my things that have 329 00:21:05,596 --> 00:21:07,756 Speaker 1: led from one thing to another, it's all kind of 330 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:11,996 Speaker 1: connected to my family, you know. Um So Don had 331 00:21:12,036 --> 00:21:15,916 Speaker 1: toured with the Slits. They were like discovering jazz and 332 00:21:15,956 --> 00:21:19,236 Speaker 1: they they was a great British punk band. We should yeah, 333 00:21:19,316 --> 00:21:23,316 Speaker 1: all women, fantastic group. So he brought me on the 334 00:21:23,356 --> 00:21:26,676 Speaker 1: tour so I and then towards the end of that tour, 335 00:21:27,596 --> 00:21:30,796 Speaker 1: I met Ari. I mean Ari was we found each 336 00:21:30,836 --> 00:21:34,196 Speaker 1: other kind of thing. We were became friends, and then 337 00:21:34,476 --> 00:21:37,716 Speaker 1: she invited me to come and visit her. So I 338 00:21:37,836 --> 00:21:40,916 Speaker 1: kind of came on, like you know, it was like summertime. 339 00:21:41,476 --> 00:21:44,676 Speaker 1: I just came to hang out, ended up staying at 340 00:21:44,676 --> 00:21:47,676 Speaker 1: her house. She was still living at her mom's house. 341 00:21:48,636 --> 00:21:53,516 Speaker 1: And then we just kind of became inseparable, like really 342 00:21:53,556 --> 00:21:56,236 Speaker 1: really close friends, and she sort of took me under 343 00:21:56,236 --> 00:21:58,916 Speaker 1: her wing. And then I got a job working at 344 00:21:58,956 --> 00:22:01,796 Speaker 1: this place called Better Badgers in Portobell Road, and I 345 00:22:01,876 --> 00:22:06,076 Speaker 1: just kind of stayed and and then that led into 346 00:22:07,156 --> 00:22:09,996 Speaker 1: the guys from the pop group forming a new band 347 00:22:10,036 --> 00:22:13,196 Speaker 1: called Ripbrig and Panic and asking me to sing. So 348 00:22:13,276 --> 00:22:17,636 Speaker 1: that's kind of how making music kind of happened really, 349 00:22:18,116 --> 00:22:21,076 Speaker 1: So then lead us up to the making of the 350 00:22:21,076 --> 00:22:23,516 Speaker 1: first album, Raw Like Sushi. How did that come about? 351 00:22:23,756 --> 00:22:26,916 Speaker 1: So I'd been in Riprig and Panic, then Float Up CP, 352 00:22:27,556 --> 00:22:30,916 Speaker 1: and then I'd made a sort of independent thing that 353 00:22:31,076 --> 00:22:34,596 Speaker 1: came out on Island Records called Ross Eggs Pure energy, 354 00:22:34,276 --> 00:22:38,916 Speaker 1: and and then I met Cameron, who I'm still married too, 355 00:22:38,956 --> 00:22:44,276 Speaker 1: and who's been my kind of, you know, lifelong travel 356 00:22:44,636 --> 00:22:48,236 Speaker 1: friend collaborator, and he just kind of said to me 357 00:22:48,276 --> 00:22:50,476 Speaker 1: at some point like why don't you Why are you 358 00:22:50,556 --> 00:22:55,476 Speaker 1: not writing songs like you should write? And I wrote 359 00:22:55,596 --> 00:22:58,276 Speaker 1: a song called looking in the Eyes of Love and 360 00:22:58,356 --> 00:23:01,156 Speaker 1: I sang it. I mean, I just wrote it in 361 00:23:01,236 --> 00:23:03,516 Speaker 1: my head and I sang it in on a cassette 362 00:23:03,556 --> 00:23:07,156 Speaker 1: and put it through his letterbox, his mailbox, and then 363 00:23:07,196 --> 00:23:09,196 Speaker 1: like a few hours later he called me up and 364 00:23:09,236 --> 00:23:11,196 Speaker 1: he had put chords to it and it was a song. 365 00:23:11,276 --> 00:23:17,076 Speaker 1: I was like, oh shit, that's amazing. And Buffalo Stance 366 00:23:17,716 --> 00:23:20,956 Speaker 1: was a kind of weird coincidence, right, which is what 367 00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:24,156 Speaker 1: kind of then led the album, because it had been 368 00:23:24,156 --> 00:23:27,396 Speaker 1: on the B side of this record called Looking Good 369 00:23:27,476 --> 00:23:31,676 Speaker 1: Diving by Morgan mcvagh, one of those people being my 370 00:23:31,756 --> 00:23:36,236 Speaker 1: husband Cameron, and they had this idea of like doing 371 00:23:36,276 --> 00:23:39,516 Speaker 1: almost like a remix of their tune, which was very 372 00:23:39,676 --> 00:23:43,396 Speaker 1: pop pop so to do like a dare I say, 373 00:23:43,796 --> 00:23:51,916 Speaker 1: cooler B side, so so no disrespect. So we kind 374 00:23:51,956 --> 00:23:55,916 Speaker 1: of spent an afternoon just in mining Cameron's flat, as 375 00:23:55,956 --> 00:23:58,476 Speaker 1: we say on it you know, using some of the 376 00:23:58,556 --> 00:24:02,076 Speaker 1: elements of the original and just rewriting the lyrics. I 377 00:24:02,076 --> 00:24:05,836 Speaker 1: wrote the raps, we wrote the chorus and the bridge together. 378 00:24:06,916 --> 00:24:09,836 Speaker 1: And then Nellie Hooper, who like produced, sold to Soul 379 00:24:09,956 --> 00:24:13,636 Speaker 1: and DJ Milo. They were kind of part of the 380 00:24:13,676 --> 00:24:17,396 Speaker 1: Wild Bunch, which then became Massive Attack, so they produced 381 00:24:17,996 --> 00:24:21,436 Speaker 1: that and then that just kind of disappeared a little bit. 382 00:24:21,476 --> 00:24:24,276 Speaker 1: And then my friend Tim Simonon, who was part of 383 00:24:24,916 --> 00:24:27,716 Speaker 1: Bomb the Bass, he sort of led Bomb the Bass, 384 00:24:27,956 --> 00:24:31,916 Speaker 1: heard it, he really liked it, and so he wanted 385 00:24:31,916 --> 00:24:36,316 Speaker 1: to recut it. So that's how Buffalo Stance happened because 386 00:24:36,356 --> 00:24:40,116 Speaker 1: without him, I mean talk about looking forward, well, I 387 00:24:40,156 --> 00:24:41,956 Speaker 1: mean we were like already passed it, do you know 388 00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:43,516 Speaker 1: what I mean? I guess first of all, I should 389 00:24:43,516 --> 00:24:45,796 Speaker 1: ask you, did this success surprise you? Then when it 390 00:24:45,876 --> 00:24:49,156 Speaker 1: became a big hit, we were on a small tour 391 00:24:49,236 --> 00:24:52,076 Speaker 1: around England or maybe a little bit in Europe with 392 00:24:52,156 --> 00:24:55,436 Speaker 1: Bomb the Bass, and I was just I mean, I 393 00:24:55,516 --> 00:24:59,356 Speaker 1: was pregnant. I had a MC with me called Gilly Gee. 394 00:24:59,476 --> 00:25:02,596 Speaker 1: I guess we were just kind of playing off backing 395 00:25:02,636 --> 00:25:06,036 Speaker 1: tracks and we did three songs and Buffalo Dance was 396 00:25:06,076 --> 00:25:09,316 Speaker 1: the last song in the set. And we noticed as 397 00:25:09,356 --> 00:25:11,676 Speaker 1: we were kind of going around the country that people 398 00:25:11,716 --> 00:25:15,596 Speaker 1: were starting to recognize it. And I remember one night 399 00:25:15,716 --> 00:25:19,996 Speaker 1: sitting on my bed in our house in West London 400 00:25:20,236 --> 00:25:24,476 Speaker 1: and there was this kind of late night American Top 401 00:25:24,556 --> 00:25:28,436 Speaker 1: ten with Casey Cason that you know, and every week 402 00:25:28,556 --> 00:25:32,596 Speaker 1: he would show a kind of something climbing up the chart, 403 00:25:32,716 --> 00:25:34,796 Speaker 1: something that's drawing a bit of attention to it, and 404 00:25:34,836 --> 00:25:37,676 Speaker 1: lo and behold there was a little clip of Buffalo 405 00:25:37,796 --> 00:25:40,436 Speaker 1: Stance and I was just like, oh my god, this 406 00:25:40,636 --> 00:25:43,476 Speaker 1: is because at that point it was still very kind 407 00:25:43,476 --> 00:25:47,396 Speaker 1: of European and it had just started to spill into 408 00:25:48,116 --> 00:25:51,316 Speaker 1: to hear. What's amazing about that song to me is 409 00:25:52,196 --> 00:25:53,876 Speaker 1: how different it is from a lot of music that 410 00:25:53,996 --> 00:25:56,876 Speaker 1: was coming out in England at that point, which was 411 00:25:56,876 --> 00:25:58,956 Speaker 1: like massive attack on those bands. You know, they would 412 00:25:58,956 --> 00:26:01,396 Speaker 1: try and get a groove going. It was often a 413 00:26:01,396 --> 00:26:05,836 Speaker 1: pretty simple melodic idea. Buffalo Stance has so many different 414 00:26:06,676 --> 00:26:09,236 Speaker 1: voices in it. I know they're all your voice, but 415 00:26:09,316 --> 00:26:11,836 Speaker 1: you know it's like if you count them. It starts 416 00:26:11,876 --> 00:26:15,156 Speaker 1: with you saying you want to beat You're throwing a 417 00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:18,956 Speaker 1: little expletive there. Then you have that very English accent 418 00:26:19,276 --> 00:26:23,756 Speaker 1: introducing the high hat, the high hat, then you have 419 00:26:23,876 --> 00:26:26,596 Speaker 1: so that's two. Then you start rapping. Now, had you 420 00:26:26,636 --> 00:26:30,196 Speaker 1: wrapped a lot by that point? Yeah, definitely a bit 421 00:26:30,316 --> 00:26:33,156 Speaker 1: like I think that my as I was kind of 422 00:26:33,196 --> 00:26:37,276 Speaker 1: doing my own thing, being such a part of that 423 00:26:37,356 --> 00:26:41,796 Speaker 1: era and it being such a kind of important part 424 00:26:41,836 --> 00:26:46,396 Speaker 1: of what was going on and inspiring and influential. Yeah, 425 00:26:46,436 --> 00:26:47,876 Speaker 1: like you were kind of it was kind of a 426 00:26:47,916 --> 00:26:50,676 Speaker 1: no brainer, and it became a really interesting way of 427 00:26:50,716 --> 00:26:53,396 Speaker 1: telling stories. So you know, you can just like be 428 00:26:53,476 --> 00:26:55,596 Speaker 1: a bit more blatant in a rap. So you wrap 429 00:26:55,676 --> 00:26:58,116 Speaker 1: the verses and then you've got the jiggalo sucker or 430 00:26:58,156 --> 00:27:01,436 Speaker 1: that little scratch break, and then you've got your singing 431 00:27:01,516 --> 00:27:05,076 Speaker 1: voice for the pre chorus and the chorus, So that's 432 00:27:05,076 --> 00:27:07,836 Speaker 1: your singing voice, but it doesn't stop that. Then you've 433 00:27:07,876 --> 00:27:11,316 Speaker 1: got that spoken break though. What's he like? Now? Was 434 00:27:11,316 --> 00:27:13,236 Speaker 1: that a real conversation? How did you? How did that 435 00:27:13,276 --> 00:27:16,516 Speaker 1: come up? I mean that kind of comes from a 436 00:27:16,516 --> 00:27:20,276 Speaker 1: friend of mine whose name is fat Tony, who's a 437 00:27:20,396 --> 00:27:23,876 Speaker 1: DJ and just a really close friend. I've known him 438 00:27:23,876 --> 00:27:25,876 Speaker 1: for millions of years and we spent a lot of 439 00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:31,276 Speaker 1: time out dancing together and out and he would look 440 00:27:31,316 --> 00:27:33,636 Speaker 1: at people and go, Oh my god, what's he like? 441 00:27:35,716 --> 00:27:39,476 Speaker 1: What's she liked? Oh God, look at her? And so 442 00:27:40,476 --> 00:27:43,596 Speaker 1: it was like just it just came into my head 443 00:27:43,636 --> 00:27:46,716 Speaker 1: when right there when we were kind of doing ad libs. 444 00:27:47,476 --> 00:27:49,316 Speaker 1: But then you you go back to the chorus, but 445 00:27:49,316 --> 00:27:51,236 Speaker 1: then you've got that whole different part that it's a 446 00:27:51,316 --> 00:27:53,636 Speaker 1: wind in my face. Oh yeah, the kind of little 447 00:27:53,676 --> 00:27:57,476 Speaker 1: poem at the end. So I'm just that's like seven 448 00:27:57,596 --> 00:28:00,596 Speaker 1: or eight kind of different voices in one song. It's 449 00:28:00,596 --> 00:28:04,036 Speaker 1: all it reminds me of maybe it's a schizophrenic tune. 450 00:28:04,036 --> 00:28:06,236 Speaker 1: I've never thought, well, no, no, it reminds me of 451 00:28:06,276 --> 00:28:08,436 Speaker 1: all like Beatles songs like Day in the Life for 452 00:28:09,436 --> 00:28:11,596 Speaker 1: you Never Give Me Your Money, like Paul McCartney will 453 00:28:11,676 --> 00:28:15,236 Speaker 1: use like three different voices. Yeah, it's such a full song. 454 00:28:15,556 --> 00:28:19,076 Speaker 1: It was just it's what makes it so different to 455 00:28:19,116 --> 00:28:22,076 Speaker 1: me kind of quirky. I think, like I find it 456 00:28:22,116 --> 00:28:25,716 Speaker 1: hard to kind of be very analytical and to intellectualize 457 00:28:25,756 --> 00:28:27,476 Speaker 1: about it, but I think it was just like one 458 00:28:27,516 --> 00:28:30,276 Speaker 1: of them. Well I don't know if I'm very good 459 00:28:30,316 --> 00:28:33,476 Speaker 1: at that, especially not with jet lag, but I think 460 00:28:33,516 --> 00:28:38,476 Speaker 1: like a very important element of maybe that time was 461 00:28:38,516 --> 00:28:42,476 Speaker 1: this kind of like fighting against the kind of any 462 00:28:42,516 --> 00:28:44,796 Speaker 1: kind of restrictions, do you know what I mean. It 463 00:28:44,876 --> 00:28:47,276 Speaker 1: was like, well, we don't have to like we can 464 00:28:47,356 --> 00:28:53,276 Speaker 1: refer to stuff without it restricting us, you know. So yeah, 465 00:28:53,276 --> 00:28:56,956 Speaker 1: I'm gonna rap, and then you know we're sort of 466 00:28:57,036 --> 00:29:00,956 Speaker 1: ultimately in a way without wanting to sell out, still 467 00:29:00,996 --> 00:29:04,916 Speaker 1: making pop records, you know what I mean, and over heroes. 468 00:29:04,996 --> 00:29:07,516 Speaker 1: It was sold as a rap record, you know, as 469 00:29:07,556 --> 00:29:11,276 Speaker 1: you probably know, I'm like rap and hip hop is 470 00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:15,956 Speaker 1: like really an important part of like my upbringing and 471 00:29:16,356 --> 00:29:21,676 Speaker 1: my identity. Like I was so in awe and loved 472 00:29:22,476 --> 00:29:25,476 Speaker 1: MC light and you know, Queen Latifa, and you know, 473 00:29:25,476 --> 00:29:30,276 Speaker 1: there were all these amazing women actually on the Roxanne Chantey. 474 00:29:30,836 --> 00:29:32,876 Speaker 1: I have to be honest and say, of course, help 475 00:29:32,956 --> 00:29:35,676 Speaker 1: me find my voice. But you know, in my eyes, 476 00:29:35,796 --> 00:29:38,956 Speaker 1: I was never as cool as them. They were like 477 00:29:38,996 --> 00:29:42,036 Speaker 1: an inspiration to me. But you know what I was doing, 478 00:29:42,956 --> 00:29:46,076 Speaker 1: I would say, it's not that it wasn't authentic, but 479 00:29:46,196 --> 00:29:48,476 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it was something else. So 480 00:29:48,596 --> 00:29:51,436 Speaker 1: I would never really have been comfortable and saying like, yo, 481 00:29:51,516 --> 00:29:54,236 Speaker 1: I'm a I'm like I can kind of rap, but 482 00:29:54,516 --> 00:29:57,516 Speaker 1: I'm not a rapper, like in the sense that give 483 00:29:57,556 --> 00:29:59,996 Speaker 1: me a mic and I'll freestyle for half an hour now. 484 00:30:00,476 --> 00:30:03,516 Speaker 1: Unfortunately I wish, okay, no, we're going to do that 485 00:30:03,596 --> 00:30:07,396 Speaker 1: right here. Yeah, no, I wish. I mean in my dreams. 486 00:30:08,236 --> 00:30:10,676 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Nana Cherry after 487 00:30:10,716 --> 00:30:17,076 Speaker 1: the break, we're back with the rest of Bruce Headland's 488 00:30:17,116 --> 00:30:21,676 Speaker 1: conversation with Nana Cherry. You talked a bit about writing Manchild, 489 00:30:21,796 --> 00:30:24,796 Speaker 1: and you talked about how you wrote that the melody 490 00:30:24,836 --> 00:30:27,796 Speaker 1: in the chords. You know, it's also a song that's 491 00:30:28,236 --> 00:30:31,756 Speaker 1: full of great lines that reminds me of some of 492 00:30:31,796 --> 00:30:35,796 Speaker 1: your later stuff, like on the Blank Project or Fallen Leaves, 493 00:30:35,796 --> 00:30:38,276 Speaker 1: which was on your last album, which was just such 494 00:30:38,316 --> 00:30:40,756 Speaker 1: a beautiful song. It's got that great line, you know, 495 00:30:40,796 --> 00:30:45,516 Speaker 1: through the speaker boxes louds my diagnosis I believe in 496 00:30:45,596 --> 00:30:47,956 Speaker 1: miracles and words and heavy doses, which I thought was 497 00:30:48,116 --> 00:30:51,636 Speaker 1: just great, great line. Who are your lyrical influences then? 498 00:30:51,876 --> 00:30:55,996 Speaker 1: Actually a big inspiration for me lyrically. I mean, I 499 00:30:56,076 --> 00:30:59,356 Speaker 1: love Mini Ripperton. I was just talking about her in 500 00:30:59,396 --> 00:31:01,996 Speaker 1: the car on the way here, but also Gareth Sager, 501 00:31:02,276 --> 00:31:04,196 Speaker 1: who was in the pop group and then in Ripberg 502 00:31:04,236 --> 00:31:07,436 Speaker 1: and Panic. He wrote the songs and a lot of 503 00:31:08,036 --> 00:31:11,556 Speaker 1: you know, I sang his lyrics kind of. I mean 504 00:31:11,596 --> 00:31:14,076 Speaker 1: I was like really young and sometimes I didn't really 505 00:31:14,156 --> 00:31:18,276 Speaker 1: understand what I was but playing with words, and I 506 00:31:18,276 --> 00:31:23,316 Speaker 1: think reggae music like moving to England and living there 507 00:31:23,796 --> 00:31:27,356 Speaker 1: in the early eighties. I mean, all those Gregory Isaacs 508 00:31:27,356 --> 00:31:31,156 Speaker 1: and Dennis Brown and going to sound systems were also 509 00:31:31,196 --> 00:31:35,796 Speaker 1: like a huge influence. But I think lyrically, I mean 510 00:31:35,836 --> 00:31:39,756 Speaker 1: it's it's like a combination of things. You know. Are 511 00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:41,476 Speaker 1: you the kind that has to sit down every day 512 00:31:41,516 --> 00:31:44,596 Speaker 1: to do some writing? No, I don't. I should do, 513 00:31:44,756 --> 00:31:46,836 Speaker 1: but I don't. I think it would be quite good 514 00:31:46,876 --> 00:31:49,116 Speaker 1: for me if I did. But when you've got an 515 00:31:49,116 --> 00:31:51,716 Speaker 1: album coming up, then you just make yourself. Yeah, I 516 00:31:51,756 --> 00:31:57,316 Speaker 1: mean I definitely have a kind of getting inside, and 517 00:31:57,556 --> 00:32:00,756 Speaker 1: there's a waiting room and the battle is to kind 518 00:32:00,756 --> 00:32:04,676 Speaker 1: of get inside. There's a zone, you know. I quite 519 00:32:04,716 --> 00:32:08,436 Speaker 1: often maybe get slightly obsessed when I'm writing lyrics and 520 00:32:09,196 --> 00:32:11,996 Speaker 1: looking for things and waiting for the to get the 521 00:32:12,116 --> 00:32:14,836 Speaker 1: kind of click in my head, you know. I mean 522 00:32:14,916 --> 00:32:19,316 Speaker 1: you have to use for me life experiences, you know, 523 00:32:19,436 --> 00:32:22,676 Speaker 1: to me, they are like stories, you know, telling a story. 524 00:32:22,756 --> 00:32:24,676 Speaker 1: And when I start a song, it's like I need 525 00:32:24,716 --> 00:32:28,316 Speaker 1: to find the grain, Like, what is this song about? 526 00:32:28,356 --> 00:32:31,316 Speaker 1: Where am I? Can I give you an example from 527 00:32:31,436 --> 00:32:34,596 Speaker 1: Fallen Leaves? Yeah, just because I'm down, don't stop all 528 00:32:34,636 --> 00:32:36,956 Speaker 1: over me? Yeah, just as an example that's at the 529 00:32:37,076 --> 00:32:40,916 Speaker 1: end of a long of course. But what was that about? 530 00:32:40,156 --> 00:32:42,756 Speaker 1: How did you? How did you get there? I started 531 00:32:42,756 --> 00:32:44,916 Speaker 1: writing that song I lived quite near to the canal 532 00:32:45,316 --> 00:32:47,836 Speaker 1: in London, and I know I was walking on the 533 00:32:47,876 --> 00:32:52,396 Speaker 1: canal and it was literally like probably a quite autumnal 534 00:32:52,916 --> 00:32:56,196 Speaker 1: thing going on, and and I just had this sense 535 00:32:56,236 --> 00:32:59,196 Speaker 1: of you know, when you're just like hearing traffic and 536 00:32:59,396 --> 00:33:01,636 Speaker 1: the world going on around and I think I was 537 00:33:01,756 --> 00:33:06,956 Speaker 1: thinking about most people that would like to indulge in 538 00:33:06,996 --> 00:33:10,036 Speaker 1: your story when you're on the ground and aren't that interested. 539 00:33:12,876 --> 00:33:15,676 Speaker 1: M were you? Did you go through something like that 540 00:33:15,756 --> 00:33:18,196 Speaker 1: at that point? There? Something? I mean, I'm I'm a 541 00:33:18,276 --> 00:33:20,996 Speaker 1: human in life. I've gone through all kinds of shit, 542 00:33:21,276 --> 00:33:24,196 Speaker 1: you know, as we do. But I just think that 543 00:33:24,276 --> 00:33:28,196 Speaker 1: I it's it's pretty hard to not be aware of 544 00:33:28,276 --> 00:33:33,156 Speaker 1: that kind of the vultures come and sit by you 545 00:33:33,196 --> 00:33:38,116 Speaker 1: when you're actually down on the ground, when you're up 546 00:33:38,196 --> 00:33:43,156 Speaker 1: running along. I think so ultimately, I guess it's maybe 547 00:33:43,196 --> 00:33:47,716 Speaker 1: a song about survival. Actually, well, we haven't talked enough 548 00:33:47,756 --> 00:33:49,956 Speaker 1: about the new album. Yeah, And one of the great 549 00:33:50,156 --> 00:33:53,676 Speaker 1: treats on this album for me and I think it's 550 00:33:53,716 --> 00:33:54,956 Speaker 1: going to be for a lot of people, is the 551 00:33:55,076 --> 00:34:02,036 Speaker 1: version of woman yes by you know, who brings a complete, 552 00:34:02,436 --> 00:34:05,716 Speaker 1: huge set of experiences to the song. So tell me 553 00:34:05,796 --> 00:34:08,396 Speaker 1: first about writing the original that was on your third album, 554 00:34:08,436 --> 00:34:11,636 Speaker 1: It was on Man Yep. What inspired that song? I 555 00:34:11,716 --> 00:34:17,476 Speaker 1: mean womanhood, being a woman shamelessly wanting to write a 556 00:34:17,476 --> 00:34:22,396 Speaker 1: song about what that means, not having to make any excuses, 557 00:34:22,676 --> 00:34:26,236 Speaker 1: you know, like, Okay, this is a woman. I think also, 558 00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:29,676 Speaker 1: like Dawn, my dad was there. I was I might 559 00:34:29,676 --> 00:34:33,356 Speaker 1: have been pregnant with Mabel, and he was kind of dying, 560 00:34:34,316 --> 00:34:37,276 Speaker 1: not kind of, And I think there was also maybe 561 00:34:37,316 --> 00:34:40,156 Speaker 1: a more complex thing going on where you know, I 562 00:34:40,276 --> 00:34:43,836 Speaker 1: was creating a child, you know, Mabel was in utero. 563 00:34:44,556 --> 00:34:48,396 Speaker 1: I was also a daughter to my dad who was dying, 564 00:34:49,436 --> 00:34:52,836 Speaker 1: And there were so many reflections of my own womanhood 565 00:34:53,316 --> 00:34:58,516 Speaker 1: going on around me, and being thirty three or something 566 00:34:59,156 --> 00:35:01,636 Speaker 1: and having had a just kind of coming over a 567 00:35:01,636 --> 00:35:05,756 Speaker 1: threshold of coming out of the twenties into the thirties, 568 00:35:05,796 --> 00:35:08,356 Speaker 1: and you know, you're trying to find your so called 569 00:35:09,156 --> 00:35:13,116 Speaker 1: authentic self or something like that. Anyway, it's a song, 570 00:35:13,476 --> 00:35:17,316 Speaker 1: and it's a song that sometimes has also annoyed me 571 00:35:18,996 --> 00:35:22,116 Speaker 1: because I found it sometimes that like I've found it 572 00:35:22,196 --> 00:35:25,916 Speaker 1: sometimes a bit restricting and sometimes in later years, I 573 00:35:25,956 --> 00:35:31,836 Speaker 1: found the production a bit like pompous with strings and 574 00:35:31,956 --> 00:35:35,156 Speaker 1: you know, this is a woman's world, you know, Like 575 00:35:35,236 --> 00:35:37,276 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I don't I kind 576 00:35:37,276 --> 00:35:40,076 Speaker 1: of wanted to take it out of the box. And 577 00:35:40,156 --> 00:35:42,876 Speaker 1: I think that's what I know. And he's done. She's 578 00:35:42,996 --> 00:35:46,596 Speaker 1: just made it bleed more in a way that I 579 00:35:46,636 --> 00:35:50,676 Speaker 1: think is really like it really needed to happen. Now, 580 00:35:50,676 --> 00:35:55,716 Speaker 1: the original I assumed was a bit of the strings 581 00:35:55,756 --> 00:35:58,876 Speaker 1: and everything you were trying to evoke the James Brown 582 00:35:58,916 --> 00:36:02,116 Speaker 1: It's a man's world. Was that deliberate? I wouldn't say that. 583 00:36:02,196 --> 00:36:04,916 Speaker 1: I would dare to say that it was an answer, 584 00:36:05,396 --> 00:36:10,196 Speaker 1: but it was a part of the discussion. There's two 585 00:36:10,196 --> 00:36:12,556 Speaker 1: other projects I want to ask you, but briefly, the 586 00:36:12,636 --> 00:36:15,036 Speaker 1: first was the Cherry Thing, which is when you did 587 00:36:15,236 --> 00:36:19,676 Speaker 1: free form jazz much closer to the stuff, Yeah, stepfather did. 588 00:36:19,716 --> 00:36:22,356 Speaker 1: What was that like? To tell you the truth, I 589 00:36:22,356 --> 00:36:26,116 Speaker 1: think that Cherry Thing record kind of saved my life, 590 00:36:26,156 --> 00:36:30,436 Speaker 1: and it kind of brought me back into being able 591 00:36:30,956 --> 00:36:33,356 Speaker 1: to make records because I hadn't made a record for 592 00:36:33,396 --> 00:36:36,956 Speaker 1: seventeen years or something when I made that, And I 593 00:36:36,996 --> 00:36:40,236 Speaker 1: guess it was just like kind of stepping into a 594 00:36:40,356 --> 00:36:42,396 Speaker 1: zone and music that was kind of like in my 595 00:36:42,716 --> 00:36:46,556 Speaker 1: very much in my DNA, and there was a kind 596 00:36:46,556 --> 00:36:50,636 Speaker 1: of freedom, and I felt so harnessed by the musicians, 597 00:36:50,636 --> 00:36:53,996 Speaker 1: and we did more or less most of the records. 598 00:36:54,556 --> 00:36:57,556 Speaker 1: Songs on that record are cover versions, So we chose 599 00:36:57,916 --> 00:37:01,996 Speaker 1: three songs and we did one take of each, you know, 600 00:37:02,036 --> 00:37:04,636 Speaker 1: and a lot of things had happened. My mother had died, 601 00:37:05,236 --> 00:37:08,876 Speaker 1: you know, not four years or three years before that, 602 00:37:09,356 --> 00:37:13,076 Speaker 1: and I had been totally traumatized by that, and I'd 603 00:37:13,476 --> 00:37:17,196 Speaker 1: of course been collaborating and doing music along the way 604 00:37:17,276 --> 00:37:20,876 Speaker 1: and bringing up the family and then but just yeah, 605 00:37:20,956 --> 00:37:22,556 Speaker 1: just getting to that place where it was like I 606 00:37:22,676 --> 00:37:26,956 Speaker 1: knew that if I didn't do something soon, I was 607 00:37:26,996 --> 00:37:29,276 Speaker 1: going to kind of crack up, do you know what 608 00:37:29,276 --> 00:37:32,236 Speaker 1: I mean. It was like I was way down, I think, 609 00:37:32,276 --> 00:37:35,196 Speaker 1: with too much stuff. It was part of the just 610 00:37:35,356 --> 00:37:38,076 Speaker 1: expectations that if you come out with the solo album 611 00:37:38,236 --> 00:37:41,236 Speaker 1: years after your last one was man, I guess yeah, 612 00:37:41,276 --> 00:37:43,276 Speaker 1: and like not quite knowing where I wanted to go, 613 00:37:43,396 --> 00:37:45,436 Speaker 1: even though I had a very strong sense in a 614 00:37:45,476 --> 00:37:48,276 Speaker 1: way of where I wanted to go. But there was 615 00:37:48,316 --> 00:37:53,596 Speaker 1: something in that Cherry Thing experience where I could fly. 616 00:37:53,876 --> 00:37:59,076 Speaker 1: And it was very amazing to just work with the musicians, 617 00:37:59,476 --> 00:38:03,236 Speaker 1: to feel that we were so connected, and to improvise 618 00:38:03,316 --> 00:38:05,676 Speaker 1: a lot of the time, well, you were going to 619 00:38:05,756 --> 00:38:09,036 Speaker 1: a place that would terrify most people, just pure improvisation. 620 00:38:09,636 --> 00:38:13,716 Speaker 1: I think it was really important. I mean, we had structure, 621 00:38:14,516 --> 00:38:18,196 Speaker 1: but there was a kind of I felt like harnessed 622 00:38:18,276 --> 00:38:20,596 Speaker 1: and like they were pushing me at the same time, 623 00:38:20,676 --> 00:38:24,956 Speaker 1: but kind of the music was there holding me up. 624 00:38:25,036 --> 00:38:29,476 Speaker 1: And I think that that departure away from that kind 625 00:38:29,476 --> 00:38:33,396 Speaker 1: of thing in pop music that can be slightly self 626 00:38:33,476 --> 00:38:36,436 Speaker 1: conscious and kind of wrapped up in itself was so great. 627 00:38:36,436 --> 00:38:38,356 Speaker 1: And then I kind of came back in So I 628 00:38:38,636 --> 00:38:43,636 Speaker 1: made the Cherry Thing record, and then Karen Hebden Fortet 629 00:38:43,836 --> 00:38:47,516 Speaker 1: remixed the suicide song Dream Baby Dream that we did 630 00:38:47,596 --> 00:38:50,436 Speaker 1: a version of on that record, and then we then 631 00:38:50,516 --> 00:38:54,236 Speaker 1: made two records together after And I'll finish on this 632 00:38:54,436 --> 00:38:57,556 Speaker 1: because it interests me, you know. We we've talked about 633 00:38:57,556 --> 00:38:59,596 Speaker 1: Buffalo Stance, which was such a great song, such a 634 00:38:59,676 --> 00:39:02,196 Speaker 1: huge song, and then you had money Love after that, 635 00:39:02,276 --> 00:39:04,996 Speaker 1: and a couple other big hits. Seven Seconds, I guess 636 00:39:05,756 --> 00:39:09,196 Speaker 1: seven seconds might have been the biggest hit of all 637 00:39:09,196 --> 00:39:13,476 Speaker 1: of them actually in Europe, not so much here, But 638 00:39:13,836 --> 00:39:17,356 Speaker 1: but if you were, if you were American artist, you 639 00:39:17,476 --> 00:39:19,316 Speaker 1: might be. You wouldn't be a one hit wonder because 640 00:39:19,316 --> 00:39:21,036 Speaker 1: you had more than one hit, but you would be. 641 00:39:21,596 --> 00:39:24,796 Speaker 1: The gravitational pull of those songs would be very heavy. 642 00:39:24,876 --> 00:39:28,236 Speaker 1: You'd be, yeah, performing them on cruises or in casinos 643 00:39:28,316 --> 00:39:32,676 Speaker 1: or something like that. So that's my absolute nightmares. But 644 00:39:32,876 --> 00:39:37,996 Speaker 1: you've you've managed to keep this start with this hugely 645 00:39:37,996 --> 00:39:41,716 Speaker 1: popular record, and you keep doing very experimental work. Is 646 00:39:42,076 --> 00:39:44,796 Speaker 1: being in Europe, is living in England? Is that more 647 00:39:44,836 --> 00:39:47,556 Speaker 1: conducive to that kind of work? I don't think it's 648 00:39:47,556 --> 00:39:50,316 Speaker 1: so much about where you are. It's about what you do, 649 00:39:50,756 --> 00:39:53,436 Speaker 1: you know. And I think that there was a part 650 00:39:53,476 --> 00:39:56,836 Speaker 1: of me that found that, like fine, I could go 651 00:39:56,876 --> 00:39:59,236 Speaker 1: and do the whole pop thing and turn up at 652 00:39:59,236 --> 00:40:02,876 Speaker 1: the Smash Hits Awards. And we had our little crew 653 00:40:02,916 --> 00:40:05,756 Speaker 1: and our family of people, and you know, sure made 654 00:40:05,796 --> 00:40:07,756 Speaker 1: some mistakes along the way, but we tried to do 655 00:40:07,916 --> 00:40:11,116 Speaker 1: things new way, in our way, and to kind of 656 00:40:11,196 --> 00:40:14,076 Speaker 1: keep it as close to our hearts as we could. 657 00:40:14,116 --> 00:40:17,596 Speaker 1: But but I just found that there I just couldn't 658 00:40:17,636 --> 00:40:21,436 Speaker 1: stay in the straight line inside, you know, on that 659 00:40:21,716 --> 00:40:25,116 Speaker 1: treadmill where it was like, okay, you make more records 660 00:40:25,156 --> 00:40:28,756 Speaker 1: that sound like Buffalo's Stance, or make more And I'm sure, 661 00:40:28,876 --> 00:40:32,076 Speaker 1: of course I could have maybe have had more success 662 00:40:32,196 --> 00:40:35,836 Speaker 1: and made more money and sold more records, but it 663 00:40:35,916 --> 00:40:39,596 Speaker 1: just wasn't really so much where I belonged, you know. 664 00:40:39,796 --> 00:40:44,716 Speaker 1: And I found that I worked really hard and I 665 00:40:44,836 --> 00:40:48,396 Speaker 1: learned a lot, and I'm really thankful, but there were 666 00:40:48,396 --> 00:40:51,076 Speaker 1: also elements of it that I was like, it's not 667 00:40:51,196 --> 00:40:55,116 Speaker 1: really what I'm living my life for. Yeah, I you know, 668 00:40:55,436 --> 00:41:00,276 Speaker 1: made some conscious decisions to absolutely keep varying to the left. 669 00:41:00,556 --> 00:41:03,796 Speaker 1: So what's next, you know, Yeah, I'm just about to 670 00:41:03,916 --> 00:41:07,996 Speaker 1: go into writing some new music. I haven't made any 671 00:41:08,076 --> 00:41:11,916 Speaker 1: new music for a while, maybe not to make an album. 672 00:41:12,036 --> 00:41:14,156 Speaker 1: Maybe it will be more in the shape of like 673 00:41:14,236 --> 00:41:17,356 Speaker 1: an EP or something like that to start with, Okay, 674 00:41:17,556 --> 00:41:20,396 Speaker 1: we'll come back when you're done. Well, I will certainly 675 00:41:20,996 --> 00:41:23,636 Speaker 1: try to do so. Okay, thank you very much. Thanks, 676 00:41:23,636 --> 00:41:27,156 Speaker 1: It's been a complete delight and people should Everybody should 677 00:41:27,156 --> 00:41:29,676 Speaker 1: be going out listening to this and all your other 678 00:41:29,676 --> 00:41:33,676 Speaker 1: albums too. It's all there to be had, Go and listen. 679 00:41:38,076 --> 00:41:40,796 Speaker 1: Thanks Nina Cherry for sharing stories from her and her 680 00:41:40,836 --> 00:41:44,316 Speaker 1: family's supremely creative life. To hear a new album the 681 00:41:44,436 --> 00:41:47,316 Speaker 1: versions as well as our favorite Nina Cherry songs. Check 682 00:41:47,356 --> 00:41:50,356 Speaker 1: out the playlist at broken record podcast dot com. You 683 00:41:50,356 --> 00:41:52,756 Speaker 1: should have subscribed to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot 684 00:41:52,836 --> 00:41:55,756 Speaker 1: com slash broken Record Podcast, where we can find all 685 00:41:55,796 --> 00:41:57,956 Speaker 1: of our new other starts. You can follow us on 686 00:41:57,996 --> 00:42:01,196 Speaker 1: Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced help from 687 00:42:01,236 --> 00:42:05,756 Speaker 1: Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holiday, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, 688 00:42:05,916 --> 00:42:09,396 Speaker 1: with engineering help from Nick Chaffey. Our executive produce sir 689 00:42:09,516 --> 00:42:13,796 Speaker 1: is Mia Label. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 690 00:42:14,036 --> 00:42:16,356 Speaker 1: If you like this show and others from Pushkin, consider 691 00:42:16,396 --> 00:42:20,516 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 692 00:42:20,596 --> 00:42:24,036 Speaker 1: that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for 693 00:42:24,036 --> 00:42:27,076 Speaker 1: four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on 694 00:42:27,116 --> 00:42:30,796 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you like the show, please 695 00:42:30,796 --> 00:42:33,396 Speaker 1: remember to share, rate and review us on your podcast 696 00:42:33,396 --> 00:42:36,636 Speaker 1: app or theme music spect Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond,