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Speaker 1: Talking to Death is released weekly every Wednesday and brought

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Speaker 1: to you absolutely free. But if you want at free

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Speaker 1: listening and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus

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Speaker 1: dot com or on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and

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Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back. Uh, you didn't do it that time, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna do it this time. Don't talk over me.

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Speaker 1: We are in Alaska. I am an Anchorage, Alaska, and

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Speaker 1: it's pretty damn gold. I think it's about twenty degrees

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Speaker 1: and it definitely feels like it. I've not even been

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Speaker 1: outside today because I don't want to be.

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Speaker 2: No, I know, I went outside for like one second

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Speaker 2: just to feel it, just to see my coffee like

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Speaker 2: steam up and get off. Yeah, that's about it.

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Speaker 1: We're in that time of year where it stays dark

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Speaker 1: for a majority of the day. Right now is what's

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Speaker 1: It's two pm exactly, and I think the sun goes

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Speaker 1: down in about an hour. That's crazy. So the last

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Speaker 1: time I was here, it was in the summertime and

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Speaker 1: it was daylight the whole time. Now I'm getting the reverse.

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Speaker 1: If you're not used to being in Alaska. It will

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Speaker 1: mess with your head and your sleep schedule big time.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we're here in Alaska working on working on

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Speaker 1: the new season of Up and Vanished. I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: guys more about that soon, but today we have a

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Speaker 1: fun guest. She starred on several reality shows, including her own.

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Speaker 1: She had a residency in Las Vegas. She just recently

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Speaker 1: produced an amazing true crime docu series called The Playboy Murders.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Holly Madison and she herself lived in

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Speaker 1: the Playboy Mansion with Hugh Heffner for years, and she

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Speaker 1: has lots of stories to tell and she's very open

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Speaker 1: about it. We had a blast in La talking and

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Speaker 1: I think you'll really like just her energy. She gets

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Speaker 1: very deep in discussion about her own mental health, her struggles,

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Speaker 1: and I think just her outlook on life is really positive.

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Speaker 1: And I had a blast chatting with her, and I

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Speaker 1: think you'll enjoy this too. I want to introduce my

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Speaker 1: friend Holly Madison in episode five of Talking to Death.

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Speaker 2: Holly, Hey, how's it going pretty good?

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Speaker 1: How you doing good? Lovely day here in La.

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Speaker 2: It's very nice.

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Speaker 1: How are you feeling today?

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Speaker 2: Good? I'm good.

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Speaker 3: This is my first thing today, So I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we'll start on the right foot here, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: is easier.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I don't but this is a new podcast

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Speaker 3: for you, So I have no idea what we're talking

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Speaker 3: about today.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna get real weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because usually I go into a podcast where I've

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Speaker 3: listened to a ton of their episodes, so I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I know what they're gonna ask me.

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Speaker 2: But now I'm like, I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: That was some blind faith here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be anything.

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Speaker 1: This could be anything right now? Rightly? What the hell

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Speaker 1: I mean? This is called talking to death and just

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Speaker 1: other people that I know or kind of know on

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Speaker 1: the internet. I want to meet with them and talk

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Speaker 1: about their life and what we're doing. Okay, pretty much?

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Speaker 1: That keeping it simple?

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Speaker 2: Nice?

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Speaker 1: So I bet this is probably the most overly asked

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Speaker 1: question ever, but I have to ask it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what is.

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Speaker 1: It really like living in the Playboy Mansion?

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Speaker 3: For me, it was probably a lot opposite than what

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Speaker 3: people would think. I mean, I think people know now

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Speaker 3: because I've talked about it a lot, but I think

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Speaker 3: back in the day people would have thought it was

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Speaker 3: just super fun and I got to just party all

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Speaker 3: day and do whatever I wanted. But for me, it

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Speaker 3: was a really I was in a really controlling relationship

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Speaker 3: and it was very controlled and walking on eggshells all

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Speaker 3: the time and constantly being scared of being kicked out

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Speaker 3: and like having nowhere to go. So it was kind

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Speaker 3: of a different experience. And I think people would think,

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Speaker 3: especially since I was on a TV show that portrayed

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Speaker 3: as just being like girls having fun.

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Speaker 1: All day, did it start that way or did it

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Speaker 1: evolve into that?

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Speaker 2: Nothing ever starts that way.

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Speaker 3: I feel like in relationships that are like emotionally abusive

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Speaker 3: or controlling, otherwise people would never get into those relationships.

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Speaker 3: And that's something I didn't understand when I was younger,

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Speaker 3: Like I remember being a teenager and you'd hear stories

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Speaker 3: about like, you know, celebrities and like so and so

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Speaker 3: hitting so and so, and then you would see the

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Speaker 3: public reacting like, well, it's her fault for going back,

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Speaker 3: she should have left after the first time. And you know,

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Speaker 3: as a kid, I would kind of like roll my

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Speaker 3: eyes and think, oh, who would ever be in a

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Speaker 3: relationship like that? But it doesn't work that way, Like

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Speaker 3: you don't meet somebody and they hit you on the

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Speaker 3: first day. It's like, you get into a relationship, everything

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Speaker 3: seems really great, and by the time you've handed over

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Speaker 3: all your independence and kind of put all your eggs

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Speaker 3: in the basket of this relationship and you've been isolated

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Speaker 3: from your friends and family, that's when things start to

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Speaker 3: get bad.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of how they do it.

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Speaker 1: Was there like a defining moment where you realize something

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Speaker 1: or is all this stuff mostly hindsight or how did

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Speaker 1: it eventually evolve into what was a toxic relationship? Well?

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Speaker 3: I was in that relationship for seven years, and obviously

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Speaker 3: it took me seven full years to realize it was

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Speaker 3: toxic enough to leave, but also have my own self

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Speaker 3: confidence that I felt okay leaving. I mean, looking back,

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Speaker 3: there were moments where I thought, oh, this is intense,

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Speaker 3: Like after I was there for a couple like three

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Speaker 3: or four months, like things emotionally got really deep, and

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Speaker 3: I well, it was just like a lot of like

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Speaker 3: love bombing and a lot of guilt in the relationship.

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Speaker 3: So you're developing feelings for this person, but you're also

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Speaker 3: feeling guilty like this poor old man is dependent on you,

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Speaker 3: which was never the case.

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Speaker 2: Like he was always with all the carts in a

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Speaker 2: way one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: Like the Hugh Hefner.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people think of him that way.

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Speaker 3: I remember when my book came out, I got so

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Speaker 3: much hate because everybody saw him as like this kindly

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Speaker 3: old grandpa because that's the way he was portrayed on

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Speaker 3: the show. But that wasn't how our relationship operated at all.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, So when you say love bombing, which

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Speaker 1: I've heard that phrase before and it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: a newer term, how would you define love bombing?

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Speaker 3: I feel like love bombing sometimes isn't something you can

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Speaker 3: see until there's some hindsight behind it, because otherwise love

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Speaker 3: bombing just sounds like the type of relationship you'd want

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Speaker 3: to get in.

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Speaker 2: It's somebody who's like, yeah, yeah, I mean I would

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Speaker 2: want that.

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Speaker 3: Like it's somebody who's like giving you gifts and like

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Speaker 3: compliments and like everything's great right off the bat. But

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Speaker 3: I think one of the telltale things if you're getting

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Speaker 3: into a relationship and you think it might be problematic,

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Speaker 3: is somebody trying to pressure you into taking those next

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Speaker 3: steps before it would really be healthy. Like you've been

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Speaker 3: seeing somebody a week and they're like, we need to

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Speaker 3: move in together. Okay, because I was in another relationship

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Speaker 3: not long after that that was another similar type of relationship,

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Speaker 3: and I remember being really into this person and really

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Speaker 3: excited that they were into me too, but he very

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Speaker 3: much was insistent I move in with him or this

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Speaker 3: isn't going to work out, And I thought, well, that's weird,

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Speaker 3: Like you don't move in with somebody after just like

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Speaker 3: kind of talking to them for a month or so.

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Speaker 3: But also I was planning on moving to his city anyway,

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Speaker 3: like I was planning on that before I met him,

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Speaker 3: so I thought, well, I mean it is kind of convenient,

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Speaker 3: and then it turned out to be just like a

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Speaker 3: horrible idea. So I would say, if you're going into

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Speaker 3: something and you're not really sure if is this just

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Speaker 3: somebody who really likes me and we're really hitting it off,

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Speaker 3: or could this be something that turns problematic, I would

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Speaker 3: say one of the telltale signs is them trying to

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Speaker 3: pressure you into next steps before you're ready and kind

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Speaker 3: of making it seem like, well, the relationship just isn't

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Speaker 3: going to work unless you do.

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Speaker 1: This, you know, so pressuring you, but also like the

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Speaker 1: love bombing part of that would be showering you with

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like.

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Speaker 3: Being compliment kids, saying I love you right away, wanting

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Speaker 3: to check on you all the time, all those things

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Speaker 3: that feel really good in.

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Speaker 1: The call me.

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Speaker 2: In cases.

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Speaker 3: But but yeah, I mean, I can see it now

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Speaker 3: because I've been through it a couple of times, but

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Speaker 3: it's hard to see it when it's new.

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Speaker 1: So did you experience that in the mansion with Hugh

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Speaker 1: Hefner and how did you in what form did you

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Speaker 1: receive that?

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Speaker 3: Well, it was a lot of like us hanging out

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Speaker 3: together aside from like the other girls in the house,

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Speaker 3: and him telling me how mature I was for my age,

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Speaker 3: and how special it was that we had certain common interests, and.

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Speaker 1: How old were you at that time?

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Speaker 2: Twenty two okay, yeah, he was seventy five.

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Speaker 1: Okay, pretty big difference. Yeah, So he's telling you you're

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Speaker 1: very venture for your age and.

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Speaker 3: Very special and we're so in love, and just all

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Speaker 3: the really sappy things that you wouldn't really expect to

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Speaker 3: hear from somebody like that. And that wasn't what I

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Speaker 3: was expecting from the relationship getting into it, Like I

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Speaker 3: knew him kind of from a distance, just from going

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Speaker 3: to parties up there and stuff before I got into

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Speaker 3: the relationship, and I very much liked him and looked

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Speaker 3: up to him and thought he was really charming and

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Speaker 3: things like that, but I didn't expect the relationship to

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Speaker 3: be like emotionally deep, and then when that became a

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Speaker 3: part of it, I very much fell into that. But

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Speaker 3: there was also a lot of like guilt and responsibility

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Speaker 3: tied up into those feelings that were like layered in there.

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Speaker 1: Where was your headspace at when you first moved in

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Speaker 1: there and you you started this, because obviously you must

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Speaker 1: have been excited at first that this was a new thing,

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Speaker 1: and it was I don't know, like, where were you

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Speaker 1: at in your mind?

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Speaker 3: Well, the only reason I moved in was because I

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Speaker 3: was in this situation where I had nowhere to live

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Speaker 3: for okay.

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Speaker 2: Just a lot of things going out in my life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I don't think that would have been

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Speaker 3: a step I would have been bold enough to take

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Speaker 3: if I kind of hadn't been desperate. And I thought, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: this makes sense because this is a place I go

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Speaker 3: that's kind of like my social life, and I know

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Speaker 3: these people like I should I should give this a

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Speaker 3: try or whatever. So I was exciting at first, but

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of drama with the other women

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Speaker 3: who lived there. As you can probably imagine.

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Speaker 1: What kind of drama though.

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Speaker 3: It was a lot of like backbiting and just people

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Speaker 3: talking about you behind your back, or trying to tell

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Speaker 3: him things or trying to tell people in the office

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Speaker 3: things that could possibly get you.

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Speaker 1: Kicked out, like a competitive way or.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very competitive.

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Speaker 3: Everybody wanted to be a playmate, they wanted to be

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Speaker 3: in the magazine, and I think kind of saw each

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Speaker 3: other as competition for those limited spots.

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Speaker 1: So after years of being there, at what point did

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Speaker 1: you come to this realization that this isn't right for

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Speaker 1: you and this is bad?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was.

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Speaker 3: Miserable a lot of the time, but always trying to

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Speaker 3: make it better. I think that's one of the factors

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Speaker 3: as to like why people stay like you. Hear people

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Speaker 3: talk about problematic relationships, and there's always people out there

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Speaker 3: who are like, well, why didn't you leave earlier? And

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Speaker 3: I think part of it is you're always kind of

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Speaker 3: like hoping things will get better or your partner will

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Speaker 3: get better for a while and then go right back

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Speaker 3: to the problems that existed before, So a lot of

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Speaker 3: it was me trying to like make excuses.

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Speaker 2: Or feeling like I had, you know, given.

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Speaker 3: Up a lot as far as like reputation, as far

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Speaker 3: as like making a choice to move into the house

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Speaker 3: and be part of like this unconventional relationship. So I

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Speaker 3: felt kind of these stakes to make it work because

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Speaker 3: of like all the judgment that goes along with a

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Speaker 3: decision like that. So there was a lot of me

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Speaker 3: being miserable over the years. But finally I decided to

248
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Speaker 3: leave because things were getting really really verbally abusive toward

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Speaker 3: the end. And this was after years of cycles of

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Speaker 3: me being miserable and then the relationship getting better.

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Speaker 2: And me being miserable, but then the relationship would get

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Speaker 2: a little bit better.

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Speaker 3: So it kind of felt like there was this upward trajectory.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's what's a little unique about the

255
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Speaker 3: situation I was in, is when people think about things

256
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Speaker 3: in like typical storytelling mode, they think about like me

257
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Speaker 3: moving in and it must have been really great, and

258
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Speaker 3: then slowly, slowly things get worse until I finally decided

259
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Speaker 3: to move out.

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Speaker 2: But that wasn't it.

261
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Speaker 3: I moved in, things were really novel and great, for

262
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Speaker 3: a few months. Then things got really really miserable, and

263
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Speaker 3: there were plenty of times I was very close to leaving,

264
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Speaker 3: but anytime I would make it clear I was close

265
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Speaker 3: to leaving, he would kind of swoop in and be

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Speaker 3: the hero for a moment, so then I wouldn't leave,

267
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Speaker 3: and then things would get bad again. But then when

268
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Speaker 3: the TV show started filming about halfway through my time there,

269
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Speaker 3: things really did start to get better for years, So

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Speaker 3: I thought, why was that, you think, Well, I mean,

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Speaker 3: part of it were because there were less women living there.

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Speaker 3: It was just me and Bridgett and Kendor and we

273
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Speaker 3: all got along pretty well, so there wasn't all the

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Speaker 3: drama with the other women. I kind of felt like

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Speaker 3: that year is over, And also like hef was really

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Speaker 3: into the show, and he was really into the fact

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Speaker 3: that we were becoming kind of like these mini celebrities

278
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Speaker 3: that were compliments to him on the show. So I

279
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Speaker 3: think he valued us more because of that, like for

280
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Speaker 3: superficial reasons. So things were a lot better, and a

281
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Speaker 3: lot of our activities and our time spent were doing

282
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Speaker 3: things we wanted to do that were fun for the show,

283
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Speaker 3: rather than like going out to night clubs with him

284
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Speaker 3: or like going into the bedroom with him, Like things

285
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Speaker 3: really changed. But then at the very very end, a

286
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Speaker 3: lot of things were happening and he got really verbally abusive,

287
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Speaker 3: and I just like, I can't, I can't do that.

288
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Speaker 3: Like after seeing things get better and then going right

289
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Speaker 3: back down to where they were, I'm like, I can't

290
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Speaker 3: take this anymore.

291
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Speaker 1: What kind of things were happening, Well, the other girls.

292
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Speaker 3: Were leaving, and I think there were some other things

293
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Speaker 3: going on with the company that I wasn't aware of

294
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Speaker 3: behind the scenes because the company was a public company.

295
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Speaker 3: But then something happened later that I'm not really clear

296
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Speaker 3: on the details on because this happened right after I left,

297
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,560
Speaker 3: is some other investors bought part of the company to

298
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Speaker 3: take it private. I think he thought he was going

299
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Speaker 3: to get more control, but he ended up with less control.

300
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Speaker 3: And it was just a whole stressful situation, and I

301
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Speaker 3: think he was taking a lot of that out on me,

302
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Speaker 3: and I didn't know what was behind it.

303
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Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, And so eventually you what was the moment

304
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Speaker 1: that you decided that you were done or what day

305
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,839
Speaker 1: was that? When did you walk out of there and

306
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,040
Speaker 1: not go back.

307
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Speaker 3: I told him it was over, and it was kind

308
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Speaker 3: of a long breakup process because he doesn't really tend

309
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Speaker 3: to want to let go of things. So it was

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Speaker 3: one of those things where you kind of have to

311
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Speaker 3: break up with somebody like three times. And I moved

312
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Speaker 3: into I was sharing a room with him, and I

313
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Speaker 3: moved into a room down the hall. While I was

314
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Speaker 3: packing up and while I was finishing the scenes I

315
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,160
Speaker 3: needed to do for the show before I left, because

316
00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 3: it was expected that I was going to stay with

317
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Speaker 3: the show, and the show was going to after Bridget

318
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,360
Speaker 3: and Kendra left, turn into a show about like me

319
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 3: working at the studio and the other playmates that were there,

320
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,959
Speaker 3: and mine, Haeff's life at home and all the people

321
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 3: were interacting with. So I finished up the scenes for

322
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,320
Speaker 3: season five. The producers of the show were mad at

323
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:15,960
Speaker 3: me because I was leaving, and it was just it

324
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,000
Speaker 3: was so much drama. I think back to that time

325
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 3: period and I I remember it, but I kind of

326
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Speaker 3: don't because I feel like I was in like survival mode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, that's that's awful. Yeah, But I mean

328
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,040
Speaker 1: you had an amazing career after that too. I mean

329
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 1: you had your own show beyond that. Yeah, your show

330
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Speaker 1: in Vegas tell me about the upswing after that.

331
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Speaker 3: I was really lucky, but also it was a lot

332
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Speaker 3: of hard work and just knowing that I have this platform,

333
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,680
Speaker 3: you know, from being on TV, and eyes are on me.

334
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Speaker 3: But I knew if I didn't act within the next

335
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 3: couple of months, that would all be over with because

336
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:49,600
Speaker 3: people forget really quickly.

337
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,160
Speaker 1: You felt like that, oh, I capitalizing off of people

338
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,920
Speaker 1: know who I am. I need to do something with

339
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Speaker 1: this for my life and my career.

340
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew I had to do it that instant

341
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,520
Speaker 3: because back then there wasn't really any social media like

342
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 3: YouTube was in its infancy, like their Twitter had just started.

343
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 3: So now, like if you have a TV show that

344
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,360
Speaker 3: gets canceled, you can hang on to your audience in

345
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,760
Speaker 3: other ways through social media. You can start your own YouTube,

346
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,000
Speaker 3: you can move it to another platform, whatever you need

347
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 3: to do. But back then it wasn't like that. Like

348
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 3: if you were on TV and you got canceled or

349
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,720
Speaker 3: were off the show for whatever reason, people would forget

350
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,240
Speaker 3: about you the next day. So I knew I had

351
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,280
Speaker 3: to do something like almost immediately.

352
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Speaker 1: How many years has it been now since you left

353
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 1: the Playboy Mansion and broke up with Hugh Hefner.

354
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,560
Speaker 3: That was in two thousand and nine, so it's been

355
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Speaker 3: like fourteen.

356
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,240
Speaker 1: Years, okay, And so when you look back on it now,

357
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: fourteen years later, how do you feel about it? Do

358
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 1: you regret any of it? Is it just a part

359
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 1: of your life? Would you change anything? Are you proud

360
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,440
Speaker 1: of some parts of it? Have you thought about any

361
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 1: of that before?

362
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of a funny question, like when people

363
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,200
Speaker 3: ask if you'd go back and change any thing.

364
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:01,400
Speaker 2: I don't know how to answer that.

365
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,760
Speaker 3: Because because there's two different ways you could look at it, Like,

366
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 3: in a way, I wouldn't change anything because I love

367
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,640
Speaker 3: where I ended up now and I'm very happy, and

368
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody's life is interesting without some kind

369
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:16,000
Speaker 3: of struggle or mishap or something like that. But I

370
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 3: think when you ask would you change anything, I think

371
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 3: anybody would go back in their lives and like clean

372
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,520
Speaker 3: up certain parts or be like, well, I wouldn't make

373
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 3: that decision if I knew I could just arrive this way.

374
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 2: Like anybody would do that anything.

375
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. So it's a it's a weird question. I

376
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,640
Speaker 3: guess the short answer is no, because I like Rahm now.

377
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 1: And you were part of a doc series a couple

378
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,640
Speaker 1: of years ago that kind of just told the untold

379
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 1: story of living in the mansion and what that was

380
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 1: like and all the hardships. What prompted you to to

381
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 1: do that and how did you get the courage to

382
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 1: tell that story like that?

383
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 3: Well, I already told my story through my books, so

384
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 3: at first I didn't want to do it when I

385
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 3: was asked about it, I felt like, I've already told

386
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,040
Speaker 3: my story. Why do I want to go back and

387
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 3: rehash it. And it was at the point where every time,

388
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 3: not every time, I mean I only told it once

389
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,439
Speaker 3: through my book, but I got so much backlash for

390
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,000
Speaker 3: it that I just didn't want to deal with the

391
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 3: backlash again. I really didn't want to do it. Like

392
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,199
Speaker 3: I was a fan of the director's work. So I

393
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 3: was on the phone with her having these long conversations

394
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,280
Speaker 3: and I very much enjoyed those. And she was telling

395
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 3: me that she had found other people from different eras

396
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 3: a playboy who had stories very.

397
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 2: Similar to mine.

398
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 3: And I was very excited by that because I'd never

399
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 3: heard that before, Like I knew it must be true,

400
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 3: but I'd never heard I felt like I was the

401
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,200
Speaker 3: only one who'd ever spoken out.

402
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 2: Everybody else was just like, oh.

403
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,199
Speaker 3: Playboy's great. I love him, He's so great, and you know,

404
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,359
Speaker 3: he was great to some people. But I think a

405
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 3: lot of it is people burying other things, or just

406
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 3: wanting to give the public the simple answer, or just

407
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,639
Speaker 3: you know, not wanting to get into it. So I

408
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,840
Speaker 3: was really interested in the project because I knew other

409
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 3: people were coming forward with their stories, and that's ultimately

410
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 3: why I agreed to do it. I didn't want to

411
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,080
Speaker 3: just because I felt like I'd already told my story

412
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 3: in book form and I'm not comfortable with handing my

413
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 3: story over to to other people who are going to

414
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 3: edit it and splice.

415
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 2: It weird, right, and.

416
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 1: Version from you, right.

417
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 3: But I did decide to do it because I wanted

418
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 3: to be supportive of the other women coming forward, because

419
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 3: I know what it feels like to be the only

420
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 3: one or feel like you're the only one.

421
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,200
Speaker 1: So you said you got backlash from who and about what?

422
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 3: Just people in the public, Like I remember when my

423
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 3: book came out, Like I checked in on my Facebook

424
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 3: page and I was getting so much hate.

425
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,040
Speaker 2: It was like overwhelmed me.

426
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 3: Just people saying shut the fuck up, like he made

427
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 3: you who you are, like thinking.

428
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 1: Just just some redneck somewhere mad.

429
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

430
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 3: And of course anybody who's like still loyal to him

431
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 3: or like part of the Playboy community, they were all mad.

432
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 3: Or even people who were like playmates who came along

433
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 3: years after I left, were mad because in their mind,

434
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,199
Speaker 3: like like say, somebody's the Playmate of the year the

435
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 3: year my book comes out, and my book is like

436
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 3: kind of tearing Playboy down in a way, and they

437
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 3: feel like it's tearing them down because they're the playmate

438
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 3: of the Year that year. So then that person's attacking me,

439
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 3: even though she's never fucking met me, and she was

440
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,240
Speaker 3: not around during an era where the same things were

441
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 3: happening that I was there, So I felt like I

442
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 3: was just getting attacked from like all sides.

443
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 1: How do you feel about him now?

444
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,639
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't have a lot of like hate

445
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 3: or anger the way people would assume I would. It's

446
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 3: more kind of a feeling of like, oh, well, I

447
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 3: know what you're doing this whole time now, bro, You know,

448
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 3: which was what manipulating and just being full of shit

449
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 3: and just like trying to sell his feelings as being real,

450
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:37,960
Speaker 3: but really it's just kind of for him, it's like

451
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,360
Speaker 3: kind of a playing house and like an indulging and

452
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,919
Speaker 3: like him feeling like he can have one woman that

453
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 3: he can kind of like have this emotional attachment to

454
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 3: but not really give any of the respect or fidelity back.

455
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 3: And then also like fuck whoever, you know, it's just

456
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 3: right and.

457
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 1: You're like that, yeah, totally, You're like, yeah, I see

458
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,479
Speaker 1: broad Yeah, I guess yeah, it's to me, it's one

459
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: of those weird things where, you know, Hugh Hefner as

460
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,360
Speaker 1: just an idea of a person in the Playboy mansion,

461
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 1: as a complete outsider, it seems so obvious that there's

462
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 1: probably some toxic shit going on in there. Yeah, but

463
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 1: it was so just kind of glossed over and polished,

464
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 1: and like, is this guy the one exception of not

465
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 1: being a piece of shit? Yeah, there's obviously not. Yeah,

466
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 1: that's different.

467
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 2: Layers to the onion.

468
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 3: It's like, if you're so far out, you know, oh,

469
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 3: he's a controversial character and he's probably a total dick

470
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 3: and probably treats women like shit, right, But then you

471
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,639
Speaker 3: get a little bit closer if you're like somebody who

472
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 3: watched The Girl's next Door or somebody who would like

473
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 3: go up to his Sunday pool parties. As I was

474
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 3: that person, you see, like, no, he's a really nice guy.

475
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 3: He's like such a gentleman, like all his friends love him.

476
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 3: But then you get a little bit closer and you

477
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 3: experience a whole other thing because if you're that person

478
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 3: right by his side and he wants to like manipulate,

479
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 3: that's a totally other person.

480
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: You know, what's the craziest shit you ever saw? Go down?

481
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 3: The craziest ship. I mean, there would be weird stuff

482
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 3: that would kind of throw me off. Like one night

483
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 3: we were like out in the limo and there would

484
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 3: be like a ton of girls in the limo and

485
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 3: everybody's wasted, and there was this one playmate who was like,

486
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 3: look what I can do, and like, I guess she

487
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 3: was still lactating, so she like squeezed her boobraly hard

488
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 3: and like milk goes and like bounces off the window

489
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 3: and we were like yeah, and nobody knew what to say.

490
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: Nothing.

491
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 2: I was just like just casual Friday night, Okay, random shit.

492
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: I didn't see it in the business. That's that's wild.

493
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:40,440
Speaker 1: Give me one more.

494
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 2: Weirdest shit.

495
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: That's pretty weird.

496
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm bad with on the spot questions. I'm just

497
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 3: feel like there's so many things to filter through. I'm like,

498
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 3: what could where can I possibly go? There was one

499
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 3: time everybody was in the bedroom and like a new

500
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 3: butler accidentally walked in and nothing was really going on.

501
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 3: It was just like some naked girls. Like he wasn't

502
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 3: even in the room then, but he had walked in.

503
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 3: Because what would happen was like we would get back

504
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 3: from the club and we would order drinks and stuff,

505
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 3: and they would leave the drinks on a tray outside

506
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 3: the door, and like somebody would come out like a

507
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 3: troll like I do with my postmates now in the morning,

508
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: and like a yeah.

509
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

510
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 3: But then there was this guy who was like a

511
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 3: new butler, and I think nobody told him. I don't

512
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 3: know if this was a prank, This wasn't usually the

513
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 3: way things were done around the house, but he fully

514
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 3: like walked into.

515
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 1: The room, nobody told him yeah, and everybody.

516
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 3: Like freaked out, yeah yeah, And I think he was

517
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: like super embarrassed.

518
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: Damn. Okay, not to like, you know, get too far

519
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 1: into it, but I read somewhere that there was like

520
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: that Hugh Hefner had this picture of you as a kid,

521
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know, the way that you described it

522
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: made it sound kind of weird. I don't know if

523
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: that was weird to you or what that was. I

524
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: don't know if you have any thoughts on that, But.

525
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 3: I didn't think it was weird at the time. I

526
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: just thought it was like kind of cute. Like I mean,

527
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 3: now I would think like a kid picture of my

528
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: boyfriend was cute.

529
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: You know, sure, I think it's a little weird.

530
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 3: Looking back, just just because the way he operated emotionally

531
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 3: was so fake that I don't look at anything the

532
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: same anymore.

533
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: So when we say, like, so fake, how do you

534
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: know that now?

535
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 3: Because well, because like the actions wouldn't follow up with

536
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 3: the words, and everything just seems very superficial. It got

537
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 3: to the point where after I left, when I did

538
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 3: my spinoff for E I had to work with the

539
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 3: same producer who did Girls next Door because we were

540
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 3: made to sign these contracts before we left, and in

541
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: the contract it was like, if he picks up a

542
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 3: spin off with any of the girls, it asked to

543
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 3: be the same production company. So we were still kind

544
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 3: of had to be under the Playboy umbrella. A little

545
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 3: bit even after we left. So that producer was also

546
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: a very close friend of Hefston. He would always try

547
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 3: and get me on the phone with Helf and I

548
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 3: ended up doing a couple scenes with hef for like

549
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 3: different projects under that same producer because I felt safe

550
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 3: on camera, like that was just going to be a

551
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 3: scene and there's so much no It would be like

552
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,239
Speaker 3: if hef was doing like a wedding special later on,

553
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 3: like Kendra and I would go and like wish him

554
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 3: luck or whatever. Okay, But like that felt okay because

555
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: it was like there's reality. Stuff is always kind of

556
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 3: semi scripted, and the cameras are there and you kind

557
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 3: of know what to expect. But that producer was always

558
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 3: trying to get me to like get on the phone

559
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 3: with him, like when we were in a meeting and

560
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't even want to talk to him.

561
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 3: It just freaked me out because I just felt like

562
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 3: the way he operated was never sincere It was always

563
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 3: like a manipulative way to get whatever reaction he wanted

564
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: out of people, or like to keep people in his

565
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 3: good graces. And I just wasn't interested in that, And

566
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 3: I wasn't interested in like the emotional manipulation that went

567
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 3: along with it, So I just never wanted to talk

568
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 3: to him.

569
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, once you realize that that's going on, you can't

570
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: really unsee it. Yeah, you're looking at everything differently now.

571
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's like, how am I going to even

572
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: react when he tries to talk with me? Am I

573
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 3: going to play along with his game?

574
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: Like at toxic shit?

575
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: Like it's just like so not real.

576
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: I saw a couple posts on your Instagram story recently

577
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: of other people dressing up like you, Yeah for Halloween?

578
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah?

579
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: Uh, super badass? What's that feel? Like?

580
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 2: It's really cute?

581
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 3: I mean I don't repost all of it because a

582
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 3: lot of people will do couples costumes, okay, and it

583
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 3: will be like one of them is helf and one

584
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 3: of them is a bunny, but they'll tag me and

585
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 3: they'll have like a blonde wig. And I'm not like

586
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: triggered or offended by that or anything, Like I think

587
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 3: Halloween costumes are fun.

588
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: What do you think when you see that? Then?

589
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: I think I.

590
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: Don't want to repost it because I think that sends

591
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 3: the wrong message, Like I'm not trying to endorse or

592
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 3: glorify relationship that I think was toxic. But at the

593
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: same time, I'm not personally offended when people do it

594
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 3: because I know people are just having fun with their

595
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 3: Halloween costumes. Like you can dress up as anything that

596
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 3: people dress up as villains or heroes or whoever. It

597
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 3: doesn't mean they endorse everything that character a person does.

598
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 3: So I'm not personally offended by it. But at the

599
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 3: same time, I'm not going to repost stuff like that

600
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 3: because I don't want to like glorify a toxic relationship.

601
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: Is it sort of strange looking back on it sometimes

602
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: where there's this duality of this super toxic bad relationship,

603
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: but also just even from my perspective, you're an icon.

604
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: To people, You're sweet, thanks seriously.

605
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: Right, and it's like, uh, like your positivity to a

606
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: lot of people. I feel like thank through that and

607
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: so maybe that's just this is that a silver lining

608
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: to you or how do you on that? Duality? Seems interesting?

609
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, I mean everything in life has a

610
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 3: duality to it. I think particularly my story does, and

611
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like I that's probably like my

612
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 3: mission in life and I just have to accept it

613
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: is to talk about duality and talk about how two

614
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: things can be true at once, because I know when

615
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 3: I came out with my story, like so many people

616
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 3: were polarized by it and they think, well, if there

617
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 3: was ever anything positive, like you got to be on

618
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 3: a TV show, you got to have other opportunities because

619
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 3: you were on a TV show, So that means everything

620
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 3: must have been good.

621
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: So shut the fuck up.

622
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 3: So like, I can't talk about the realities of my

623
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: relationship that were very, very toxic and unhealthy.

624
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous about that Black and one. No, it never is.

625
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 3: No, Like I kind of look at the positive things

626
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: that came as like the silver lining or like the

627
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 3: lemonade that came out of Lemons. It's not the meat

628
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: of the story really.

629
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're into true crime? Were you always into

630
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: true crime?

631
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 3: I was always fascinated by it, like as a I

632
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: hate to say fan, because nobody's a fan of crime,

633
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 3: but I'm a fan of storytelling and growing up, I

634
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: always loved Unsolved Mysteries. That's my favorite thing, and that

635
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 3: was the show that really made me fascinated. I think

636
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 3: with true crime and paranormal like every once in a

637
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: while they'd do a ghost one and I love like

638
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 3: the Queen Mary episode it's so cool. So that kind

639
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: of started it all. So it was always a consumer

640
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 3: of it and a fan of that storytelling. I was

641
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 3: never into it professionally until about a year and a

642
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 3: half ago a production company called Lion TV came to

643
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 3: me with a proposal to do a show called The

644
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 3: Playboy Murders, And at first I was like, absolutely not,

645
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 3: I'm not doing another Playboy thing.

646
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 2: I'm up to my ears and yeah, yeah, whether it's

647
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: like my book.

648
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: Or my podcast hadn't started yet at the time, but

649
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 3: I was thinking about doing it, and you know, Secrets

650
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 3: of Playboy was a lot to deal with and the

651
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 3: backlash that came with that, I don't want to do it,

652
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: but my agent was like, okay, just look at the

653
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: deck and see what you think. And they'd come up

654
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 3: with a deck of like the stories they wanted to tell,

655
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 3: and they were a lot of cases I had never

656
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 3: heard of and just like fascinating things, and they were

657
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: all tied together by the fact that somebody in the story,

658
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: whether it was the victim or the perpetrator, was involved

659
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: in the Playboy world some way, whether they were a

660
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 3: playmate or a Playboy model or a bunny. And of

661
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: course I can relate to that a lot. And several

662
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: of the victims were people who would post for Playboy

663
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: or were seen in like a sexualized light, and you know,

664
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, I have a lot of

665
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 3: questions as far as like how the average person consumes

666
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: stories like that, because people have a lot of preconceived

667
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: notions about people who are in the sex industry or

668
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: anything that's adjacent to the second industry. And I wanted

669
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: to come to the stories from a perspective of humanizing

670
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: those people and sharing other things about them besides the

671
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: fact that they were ever naked at one point in

672
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: their life. Right, Yeah, So I thought it was really interesting.

673
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: I was like, I would watch this show. So that

674
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 3: completely changed my mind and made me want to do it.

675
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: And we just finished filming season two, which will be

676
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 3: out at some point next year.

677
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: Do you feel like society has changed it all in

678
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: terms of I don't know, a majority of people or

679
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: a larger number of people being more accepting of adult

680
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: entertainment kinds of things. Absolutely, But what's your take on that?

681
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I think absolutely made a ton of progress.

682
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: Is not that it's fixed. Yeah, what's you're thought? I

683
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: don't know.

684
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 3: But there's still a long way to go, and I

685
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 3: think there's two different sides to duality. Again everything I

686
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 3: talk about, but even like you're talking about porn, you know,

687
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: there will be people on social media who love being

688
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 3: an adult creator, whether they're doing it on OnlyFans or

689
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 3: doing it for a studio or whatever. But then there's

690
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 3: such a toxic side to the industry too, and I

691
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: think those stories should be heard first and foremost, so

692
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: you know, reform can happen.

693
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: What kinds of things for someone who wouldn't know what

694
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: you're talking about.

695
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: A lot of like women being taken advantage of and

696
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 3: the adult industry, they get paid very little and kind

697
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: of chewed up and spit out and don't necessarily know

698
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 3: what they're getting into. I don't think it would be

699
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,479
Speaker 3: a bad idea for a minimum age of like twenty

700
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: five to get into the adult industry at the very least.

701
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 2: That's just my opinion.

702
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 3: Other people in the industry might disagree, but I think

703
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 3: it's a lot. I think people at a young age

704
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: aren't necessarily fully understanding of the lasting impact of having

705
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: something out there like that, or they may think it's

706
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 3: like cool and like rebellious and okay for the moment,

707
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 3: but then it has more of a lasting impact than

708
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 3: they realize. So I think it's important that a lot

709
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 3: of people who haven't had a great experience in the

710
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 3: adult industry are talking about it, so just more people

711
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 3: can be informed. Like I follow different creators on TikTok

712
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 3: who talk about it just because I think it's fascinating

713
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: and interesting, and I think it's good that young people

714
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 3: are hearing those stories so if they ever think about

715
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 3: doing something like that, they can have a more informed perspective.

716
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: And the other side of it is sort of this

717
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: empowerment thing too, where you can take control it some

718
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: like only fans, where you can kind of create your

719
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: own destiny with that and have the right to do

720
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: whatever you want to do. Yeah, absolutely, something.

721
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: Like that, right, Yeah.

722
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 3: I think people need to think about like the emotional

723
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: impact of doing stuff like that too. I think there

724
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: are people who are cut out for it, but I

725
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 3: think there's a lot of people aren't. Okay, like I think,

726
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 3: I think, I bet, I mean, there's gonna be people

727
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: who argue with me, of course, but I bet if

728
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: you talk to somebody who's maybe like a full service

729
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: sex worker and they love their job and they're totally

730
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: into it. I bet if you ask that person even,

731
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: they would probably say not. Everybody's going to be cut

732
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 3: out for this though.

733
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: Right like you.

734
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: That's most things in life.

735
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd have to have a sense I can't play football.

736
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, it's not everybody's going to be cut out

737
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 3: for it. But I think because most people can have sex,

738
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 3: it's looked at as this thing that like anybody can

739
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: do so even money and anybody could. But I feel

740
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: like you probably have to have a certain confidence and

741
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: threshold emotionally and sense of self and sense of ability

742
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: to navigate interpersonal relationships to make that work for you,

743
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: and not everybody has that.

744
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: Do you like you had that when you were twenty two?

745
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: Oh?

746
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 3: Fuck no, No, I think I thought I did, though,

747
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: because everybody thinks they're a badass when they're college aids.

748
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: I definitely did. I thought I was. Yeah.

749
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: I thought I knew everything. I thought I could handle everything.

750
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: I thought I could fuck like a man and not

751
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: give a shit. Ro Are you kidding me?

752
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: No? So you say you didn't have that, but you

753
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: felt like you did. Yeah, like you were. You know,

754
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: we all do, Yeah, everybody does.

755
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: When they're young.

756
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: Would you change any of that? Would you have waited

757
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: or you know, was it worth it? I don't know.

758
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 3: I think in a perfect world, I probably shouldn't even

759
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 3: been dating in my early twenties. Like, I don't even

760
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: think I was genuinely like into sex until.

761
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:00,959
Speaker 2: I was closer to thirty.

762
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: What do you mean?

763
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: I just don't think.

764
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: I feel like I dated more because I was lonelier

765
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: because I thought that's what I should do. But looking

766
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: back and knowing who I am as a person, I

767
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 3: think doing career related things would have been more constructive

768
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: for me and not having like relationships tied up into that.

769
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: And I think if I would have had a clearer

770
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 3: idea of like, you know what, you don't have to

771
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 3: like be with a guy or date, be dating or

772
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 3: be doing that, I could have just focused more on,

773
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 3: you know, whatever I was passionate about or interested in.

774
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: Did any of your experiences you know, in the Playboy

775
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: scene change your views on sex h like today or

776
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: down the line or later? Not?

777
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: Really?

778
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: I just feel like, I mean, I definitely have better

779
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: boundaries than I did back then. I think it more

780
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 3: has changed my views on boundaries and holding boundaries.

781
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I don't have a problem with sex

782
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: per se.

783
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: So you have a boyfriend now, right, Zach Beggins, huge fan.

784
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: I'll show you that one of my friends actually dressed

785
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: up as him for Halloween. Yeah. People, she kind of

786
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: killed it though. I got to show you this. Then

787
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question about some paranormal stuff.

788
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: But this is this is it?

789
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 2: Oh that's really good.

790
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: That's so cute, like a little too convincing.

791
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really good.

792
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: Have you ever had your own paranormal experience?

793
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

794
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it started. I think my first big one that

795
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 3: I can remember it was.

796
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: Actually your first one. It was more than one.

797
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 3: Oh, I live in a haunted house now, like things

798
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 3: happened kind of regularly, but the first big one I

799
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 3: can remember.

800
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: Well.

801
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 3: The first experiences I had, or when I lived in

802
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 3: an apartment in college with two other women, I would

803
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 3: hear the strangest noises and things like that, Like it

804
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 3: would like there would be nobody else in the house.

805
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: I'd be asleep and I would hear what I thought

806
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 3: was my roommate getting ready in the bathroom. I could

807
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: hear the shower, I heard like the hair dryer, all

808
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 3: the things. And then come to find out there's nobody home.

809
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 3: Things like that. But the first big one where I

810
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: remember seeing something was when I first moved into the mansion.

811
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 3: I was in the gym working out, and I saw

812
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 3: a woman come out of the tanning bedroom and she

813
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 3: kind of walked across the room, kind of around a

814
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 3: corner where I couldn't see her, and I'm on the treadmill,

815
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: you know, working out whatever, looking in the same direction.

816
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 3: I don't ever see her come back out or anything

817
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: like that. And before I left, I thought, well, I

818
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 3: should go over and introduce myself, because there were always

819
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 3: people coming out to the property, whether they were like

820
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 3: testing for Playmate and staying in the guest house, so

821
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 3: you just never knew who you were going to see.

822
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: But I thought I should go introduce myself. So I'd

823
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: go walk around the corner, and there's nobody there. There's

824
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 3: nowhere else she could have gone, but there's nobody there.

825
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 3: So I don't know what that was.

826
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: So he's all ghosts in the Playboy Mansion.

827
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: Oh more than when people see the ghost.

828
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like my co host on the show was in

829
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 3: her room with two other people who all have very

830
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 3: different views on the paranormal, Like there's one who's a

831
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 3: scaredy cat and doesn't want to believe, like there's one

832
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: who's a skeptic, and then Bridge it's super into it.

833
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 3: They all three saw, actually I think there were four

834
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: people in the room. They all saw this dark haired

835
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: woman just appear in the bathroom doorway.

836
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: One of them started to crying. A lot of them

837
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: was like covering her. I was like, what the fuck

838
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: was that? What the fuck was that?

839
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: Like?

840
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: They all saw it?

841
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 1: And what was your response?

842
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I wish I would have been there?

843
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: Okay, So what do you think that kind of stuff was?

844
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: Like when you saw that lady walking around and she's

845
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: not around the corner? Do you think that was a ghost?

846
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 2: I do? I think it's what's a ghost? Then I don't.

847
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what a ghost is. I

848
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 3: can't tell you, but I think maybe it was like

849
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 3: a residual. She looked like a contemporary woman. This didn't

850
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: look like somebody from the seventies.

851
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.

852
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: She had like a.

853
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 3: Pink sportspra on and like black workout pants and like straight,

854
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 3: medium length blonde hair.

855
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: And my personal.

856
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: Opinion on what that could have been was I think

857
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: it was just a residual energy from somebody who was

858
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 3: maybe like maybe had come to test for playmate, or

859
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 3: maybe she was a guest at the pool party and

860
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 3: she was really excited to be there and that was

861
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 3: an exciting moment for her, and you know, there was

862
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 3: a little bit of that energy left over, like an

863
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 3: imprint or something like that.

864
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: I like that way of thinking about the paranormal, like

865
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: science explains this one day where it's just a it's

866
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: an imprint, like you're saying, Yeah, I.

867
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 3: Mean, I don't feel if I had to guess that

868
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 3: that was like a human who's like trapped in the basement, right, Jim.

869
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 3: You know, I think it was somebody who likes had

870
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 3: a strong that was an exciting moment in her life,

871
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: and there was a little bit of like energy left over.

872
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

873
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 3: And as far as the ghost in the room that

874
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 3: Bridget and a bunch of other people saw, Bridget thinks

875
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 3: it's a woman who she met the very first time

876
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 3: she tested for Playmate, like way back in ninety eight,

877
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: named Janie, who was a secretary at the mansion, and

878
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 3: because she felt like that's what it looked like and

879
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 3: she had just gotten a new puppy that day, and

880
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 3: she felt like it was Jonie coming back to see

881
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: the puppy because Joanie was somebody who was very social

882
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 3: and I always wanted to see what was going on

883
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:01,479
Speaker 3: with all the girls and things like that.

884
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: Are you religious?

885
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 2: I'm spiritual, okay, which I.

886
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: Don't what spiritual mean to you then?

887
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean I believe strongly in like reincarnation and okay,

888
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 3: journey of souls stuff like that.

889
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: So like reincarnation is in you know, when you pass,

890
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: you might be like an ant or a dog or

891
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: another person. Is that how that works? I don't know.

892
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: I think animals might be a different form of consciousness.

893
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: But I definitely think you have a choice to come

894
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 3: back if you want to as a person.

895
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: Or stay you can stay somewhere else up there. Yeah, okay,

896
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: what makes you feel that way?

897
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 3: Just certain things I've felt or experienced over the years.

898
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: From other people or something or no from.

899
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 3: Myself, and just I just feel like it's a form

900
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 3: of spirituality that's not like harmful to anybody else.

901
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: Right, Does it feel more positive to think that there

902
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: is something else beyond and right here right now and

903
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: this is it? Yeah?

904
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: I think so.

905
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: I think I think we're in kind of a simulation

906
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: of sorts.

907
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 1: Really like the real simulation, like the matrix one.

908
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 3: Probably not in a way we would wrap our heads around.

909
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 3: I don't believe it's like a literal computer. I think

910
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 3: we wouldn't be able to understand it in our human brain.

911
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: But if it was, would be.

912
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: Able to tell Huh.

913
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: If it was, though, will we even be able to tell? No,

914
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: that's what they say, right, If we are in a simulation,

915
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: we couldn't disprove it.

916
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: Yea, so maybe we are right, we could be.

917
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: So what's the kind of simulation are you talking about? Then?

918
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 2: Like a spiritual simulation?

919
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: Okay? Like some I don't know.

920
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: I don't have the answer.

921
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: World in a like like the end of Men in Black,

922
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: you know, don't talking about the very end where it

923
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: zooms way out and the aliens have those marbles all

924
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: the universes.

925
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: I think so would be scary.

926
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I read somewhere recently that you were you've been

927
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: diagnosed as autistic or some form of that. Would you

928
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: be comfortable sharing that with me? Just more about that?

929
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just got diagnosed. I have been suspicious of

930
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: it for a while because my mom told me that

931
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 3: she was always suspicious that that was a thing.

932
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: She said, I what did she feel that way?

933
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 3: Well, she said the first thing she noticed was that

934
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 3: it was zone out a lot as a kid and people,

935
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 3: and I was I'm the oldest, so I was her

936
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: first and people would always ask her what is wrong

937
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 3: with her? What is she doing? And my mom would

938
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 3: just be like, She's think she just does that. Yeah,

939
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 3: I would completely zone out. And I always kind of

940
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: had trouble socially, not recognizing social cues, not picking up

941
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 3: on things the same way other people did.

942
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: But I just made excuses for it.

943
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 3: I thought it was because I grew up in Alaska

944
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: and then around middle school age moved to Oregon, and

945
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 3: I thought, well, that was just a big social change.

946
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 3: So I'm just very introverted, like that's kind of always

947
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 3: how I wrote it off. But I went and got

948
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 3: diagnosed earlier this year, so now I know, and obviously

949
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 3: like I'm highly functioning, like it's not, but it's not

950
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: as extreme as it is for other people, so I'm

951
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 3: not like the spokesperson for everybody. They call it a

952
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 3: spectrum for the reason. So but I like knowing, I

953
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: like understanding myself better, and I like being able to

954
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 3: tell other people too, because I feel like throughout my

955
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: life people have not really liked me, or have been

956
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 3: like rubbed the wrong way or like been they think

957
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 3: I'm like stuck up or snobby, or think I'm better

958
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 3: than everybody else, or have my nose in the air,

959
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: and it's like, no, I'm just I'm.

960
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: Just just because you're a playboy model or is it

961
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: because you're saying or doing something that makes them feel

962
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: like way?

963
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 3: I think because I'm more quiet, I've only recently learned

964
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 3: to make eye contact. I'm often often my own thoughts

965
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 3: things like that, so people take that okay, events they're like,

966
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 3: oh damn, you're not super interested in me. Fuck you,

967
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 3: Like I'm just not on the same social wave like

968
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 3: those other people, but don't take it personally.

969
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: So I like being able to explain that.

970
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 3: I also don't really have a gauge for when other

971
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 3: people are going to be done speaking, so I tend

972
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 3: to interrupt a lot which business people.

973
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: Well you're doing fly right now?

974
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: Thanks, I'm learning.

975
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: So what is your diagnosis? What do they tell you?

976
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: How does that work? If you're on the spectrum? Yeah,

977
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: where are you on that spectrum? And what is that

978
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: spectrum based on what the doctor told you?

979
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 3: Well, the doctor told me that I have high executive functioning,

980
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: which means I can pretty much go about my life

981
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: and do things quote unquote normally. There's a thing called

982
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 3: theory of mind that I'm not going to do a

983
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 3: good job explaining. But she said, I have a hard

984
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 3: time understanding why other people might think differently or do

985
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 3: things differently than me.

986
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: That's how you feel. Yeah, so you have a hard

987
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: time understanding why someone would not think the way you're

988
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: thinking about something.

989
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:44,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm told.

990
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean for me, it's hard to tell because

991
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: I've always i mean, we all have our ways of thinking,

992
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: and we've always thought that way.

993
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: So I think it's normal.

994
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: But I mean I think it's normal. Yeah, I mean

995
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: I feel like I've had to train myself to consider

996
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 1: that consciously. Right. Hey, this other person might not see

997
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: this the same exact way that you are in this

998
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: moment because we have different brains, different experiences, different points

999
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: of view, so it could never exactly be the same

1000
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: even if it's similar. Really, yeah, no way, So you

1001
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 1: know that about yourself? Now is how does that change

1002
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: the way you operate. Are you just thinking differently or

1003
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 1: being conscious of that?

1004
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely makes me understand why I do the

1005
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 3: things I do. Like when I was getting diagnosed, it

1006
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 3: happens over a series of I lost track of how

1007
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 3: many appointments I did, and.

1008
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: Please tell me, like, what is that like, like you

1009
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: walked in in one day or is this months?

1010
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 3: Or well we did it over zoom, but it was

1011
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 3: at least seven appointments. I lost track of how many

1012
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 3: appointments it was, and I wanted to vlog the experience.

1013
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,919
Speaker 3: I didn't vlog like my actual sessions, but I would

1014
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 3: check in before and after each session and just kind

1015
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 3: of talk about what we were doing that day and

1016
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 3: what we did and what questions I was asked and

1017
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 3: how I was assessed. And as I was doing it,

1018
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, through like session five, I'm like,

1019
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 3: this is my fifth session, and by like the sixth session,

1020
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, what session am I on again?

1021
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: Right?

1022
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 2: So I'll know once I go back and edit all that.

1023
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: I don't know how many it was, but I think

1024
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 2: it was at least seven.

1025
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: So why do you decide to come out and say

1026
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: that to people versus just keeping it to yourself.

1027
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 3: I think it's important because I think I've just gone

1028
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: about my life like rubbing people the wrong way all

1029
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 3: the time. Like I feel like I was never somebody

1030
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 3: who was really well liked in all different situations, and I.

1031
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: Feel like like a public thing or what not.

1032
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 3: Just that I think just in any social setting I

1033
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: was in, whether it was school or when I was

1034
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 3: living at the mansion or things like that, the first

1035
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: place I ever felt like I was successfully interacting with

1036
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 3: people was in college. When I moved to LA I

1037
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 3: got a job at Hooters, and I felt like I

1038
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 3: was able to make friends there and able to be

1039
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 3: successful because when you worked Hooters, at least back in

1040
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: the day, they kind of had a persona you were

1041
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 3: supposed to adopt. And when you're going around waiting on tables,

1042
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 3: you're only at a table for a short period of time.

1043
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: You're kind of bopping around, and then you're like interacting.

1044
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 3: With other servers for very short periods of time, so

1045
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 3: there's only like a handful of things you would say,

1046
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 3: you know, when you're taking an order or whatever, and

1047
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 3: then when you're not doing that, they're like, okay, we'll

1048
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 3: go play do card tricks at that table or or tricks. Yeah,

1049
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: or like when a family sits down, always talk to

1050
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 3: the wife and the kids first and the man last.

1051
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: So there's so many like rules on how you're supposed

1052
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 3: to interact, Like as a Hooters girl, I felt like

1053
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 3: I was able to navigate social situations because I had

1054
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 3: those rules.

1055
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: Okay, so those are the founds kind of help guide

1056
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: you do. Hey, I'm doing it. Look yeah talking to people.

1057
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: Does this seem right? Yeah?

1058
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 2: One hundred percent.

1059
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: That's awesome though. Okay, so do you feel like just

1060
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 1: knowing this now makes you feel more comfortable in situations

1061
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: or how is it helpful to just been diagnosed at all?

1062
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 3: Well, it's really helpful because I notice things I'm not doing,

1063
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 3: Like I was never making eye contact before at all,

1064
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 3: So now I okay. And it's funny because you would

1065
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 3: hear that throughout your life, like you hear these social

1066
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: skill things like always have a firm handshake, always make

1067
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 3: eye contact, but never really clicked, and I never did

1068
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 3: make eye contact. I would always kind of stare at

1069
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 3: other things. I still kind of do sometimes I make

1070
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 3: myself make eye contact. But I think it's just helpful

1071
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 3: knowing you know, or I can apologize to people if

1072
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 3: I interact or talk over them and tell them why.

1073
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 3: And I just think it helps a lot, and it

1074
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 3: helps other people be more understanding and also helps other

1075
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 3: people like not take the way behave personally, which is

1076
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: just better all around.

1077
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 2: I think.

1078
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: Do you feel less anxious about that now?

1079
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.

1080
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: Right. It's about you easily get in your head about

1081
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: not doing this right in a social setting or something right.

1082
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.

1083
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you want other people to feel what that

1084
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: if they feel this way, that it's okay to yeah,

1085
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: and that it would be your message to people.

1086
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: That everybody operates differently, and maybe I think just interacting

1087
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 3: with any but just have a little bit of patience

1088
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 3: because you don't know what they're dealing with or what

1089
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 3: their level of social function is or you know, And

1090
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 3: I think, I yeah, I mean I think even me,

1091
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 3: just the way I react with people, I have a

1092
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 3: little bit more patience now and I don't take things

1093
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 3: as personally really yeah, because I think it's easy when

1094
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 3: you're out there interacting with people in different ways, if

1095
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 3: somebody seems a little standoffish or rude. You know, when

1096
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 3: I was younger, I would totally take that personally something

1097
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 3: yeah one hundred percent, or take it personally or think

1098
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 3: it was me. And now I have more patience, and

1099
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, maybe they were just rushed that day,

1100
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 3: or maybe they just don't interact with people in the

1101
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 3: same way. Like even after discovering this about myself, I

1102
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 3: was talking with bridget on our podcast about a certain

1103
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 3: photo shoot and one of the models had been replaced

1104
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 3: because she had no personality, and we know who that

1105
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 3: model was, And I'm like, I don't think it's that

1106
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 3: she had no personality. I think, you know, not to

1107
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 3: diagnose somebody. This is just what I suspect. I think,

1108
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 3: knowing what I do about myself, I think she was

1109
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 3: also on the spectrum undiagnosed and just never learned to

1110
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 3: mask at all and never learned to cover that up.

1111
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 3: And I think that's why people thought no personality, because

1112
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 3: I remember trying to interact with this woman. It was

1113
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 3: really hard to have a conversation with her, to like

1114
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 3: make friends or even just do like the basic you know,

1115
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 3: social interactions you would have when that person would come

1116
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 3: out to a night club with us or come out

1117
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 3: to dinner, And it was easy to take it personally

1118
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 3: and I remember, you know, I would talk with Bridget

1119
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: and Kendra and we would be like, what is up

1120
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 3: with that girl?

1121
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: Like does she hate us?

1122
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: Like why is she here if she hates that? Like

1123
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 3: we kind of felt like she didn't like us.

1124
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: Also looking through the lens of Yeah, if I was

1125
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: doing that, it would mean this, but maybe it doesn't

1126
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: mean it from her.

1127
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, now I feel like that probably wasn't the case.

1128
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 3: She probably just had a totally different set of like

1129
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: social skills than anybody else.

1130
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: So do you feel like you have more consideration for

1131
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: people's behavior and the nuance of just conversating with people, Yeah,

1132
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, and just kind of being open to

1133
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: the fact that people are different in that way.

1134
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, not everybody functions the same thing.

1135
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: On that show, the Playboy murders, all those different cases

1136
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: that you looked into, what was one that stood out

1137
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: to you as the most fascinating or bizarre that really

1138
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: caught your attention?

1139
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: They were all so different.

1140
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: I think the one and I kind of have them

1141
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 3: jumped in my head because I just finished filming season two.

1142
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 3: I like, but I think one that I remember from

1143
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: season one that I was really fascinated with was Star Stowe.

1144
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 3: She was a playmate in the seventies, and she was

1145
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 3: very different from like the typical playmate because the playmate

1146
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: always had like a certain look, but she was kind

1147
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 3: of given like this whole like seventies glam rock look.

1148
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: Which is really cool.

1149
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 3: And she was murdered in the nineties years later, decades

1150
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 3: after she was in Playboy, but that's still unsolved. So wow,

1151
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 3: I was like working on unsolved cases because you just

1152
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 3: never know what is going to come out and like

1153
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: if it might help.

1154
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: Solve Are there any leads on that case?

1155
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: Not that I know of.

1156
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 3: Now the case has been reopen, okay, but not that

1157
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 3: I know of. But that was very fascinating to me.

1158
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 1: How do you feel about being able to spotlight cases

1159
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: like the.

1160
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: I like it and I just always want to represent

1161
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 3: the cases. You're never going to know, you know, what

1162
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 3: the victim would have wanted to be known about the case.

1163
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 3: But I try and put myself in those shoes as

1164
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 3: much as possible and imagine, like if that were me,

1165
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 3: what would I want known about me?

1166
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: Well, what would you want? Have you ever thought about that? Yeah?

1167
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 3: Just I think especially for a lot of these women,

1168
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 3: because a lot of the victims. Not every case, but

1169
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 3: a lot of the victims in the cases are people

1170
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 3: who are pose nude or just known for being in Playboy, Like,

1171
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 3: they would want other details about their lives known, and

1172
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 3: like their family relationships and like what was important to them,

1173
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 3: and they'd want to be portrayed as like real people

1174
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 3: and not just like a sex object.

1175
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: If you went missing and it was unsolved, would you

1176
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: want a true crime documentary about you?

1177
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 3: One hundred percent would Okay, Yeah, I would want that.

1178
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 3: I mean, there's always the thought that when you're putting

1179
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: anything out in the true crime space that's going to

1180
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 3: inevitably probably be traumatic for somebody because there's real loved

1181
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 3: ones and they don't want to hear it again necessarily.

1182
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,919
Speaker 3: But if that had happened to me, I would want

1183
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: my case solved. I would want people to be aware

1184
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 3: of it, and I would hope that not that any

1185
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 3: of the victims were ever doing anything wrong, but I

1186
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: would hope that something would be learned from my case,

1187
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 3: Like maybe something about my case could prevent it from

1188
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 3: happening to somebody else.

1189
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: For other people to learn from to protect them.

1190
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, in some ways, if there's ever anything from a

1191
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 3: case that can be learned as far as people keeping themselves.

1192
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: Safe, okay, right, so that yeah, okay, And I.

1193
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 3: Kind of hate even putting that out there because I

1194
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 3: don't ever want to imply that anybody ever did anything,

1195
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 3: even accidentally to put themselves in danger.

1196
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: But right, I also don't want to imply that you're

1197
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: ever going missing. Yeah. Yeah, We're never making this documentary.

1198
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's the point of sharing stories, is we're

1199
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 3: all learning from each other's life experience exactly.

1200
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that is the silver lining and

1201
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: rehashing difficult times. It's just going to be harf everybody. Yeah,

1202
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: but I think that, you know, you have to do

1203
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: that to a degree or the case fades away a

1204
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, you know what I mean.

1205
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: It's sad to just have it be forgotten, I think.

1206
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: So what's next for you in life? In life, in life.

1207
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1208
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 3: I just feel like things are really good right now

1209
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 3: and I want more of the same. Like, my kids

1210
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 3: are great and I'm really happy, and I'm working on

1211
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 3: another show for ID that hasn't been announced yet.

1212
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: I'm excited about that, more true crime stuff. You're just

1213
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: the true crime person now, right kind of Yeah.

1214
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I like sharing stories, and I like telling

1215
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 3: other people's stories, and if I can be a voice

1216
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 3: for those people in any way, I try to do

1217
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 3: it the best I can.

1218
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 1: Did you ever see yourself doing this?

1219
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 3: Not specifically, it wasn't like a specific goal I have

1220
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 3: written out, but it's definitely a genre I've always been

1221
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 3: interested in.

1222
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, do either. Yeah, It's like I didn't as a kid.

1223
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be a true crime investigator.

1224
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then a story comes along and it speaks

1225
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 3: to you, or more than one story, and it's just

1226
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 3: like a calling.

1227
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're looking forward to doing that? How about

1228
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: everything else?

1229
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I love doing the podcast Bridget and irons

1230
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 3: season two of our Girl's Next Level podcast, and we

1231
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 3: still have like four more seasons of Girls next Door

1232
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 3: to cover and we're having fun doing it.

1233
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: So what was it like going back and reliving those episodes?

1234
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 2: It's a lot.

1235
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 3: I mean, I was a little more prepared for it

1236
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 3: than Bridget was, because I've been doing reactions on my

1237
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: YouTube channel, and that's what gave me the idea to

1238
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 3: do the podcast, was because I'd be rewatching these episodes

1239
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,240
Speaker 3: that I hadn't seen in like fifteen years.

1240
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: Is it hurt? Yes, like described to me what that

1241
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: feels like.

1242
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 3: It's weird on a bunch of levels, because first of all,

1243
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,760
Speaker 3: you realize some ways that maybe you weren't treated very fairly,

1244
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 3: or maybe you were treated like a puppet, or maybe

1245
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 3: certain insecurities you had were exploited by the producer in

1246
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 3: ways that weren't very kind. So that's kind of hurtful

1247
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 3: to go back and realize. But also you're reminded of

1248
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 3: good times too, and like the fun times you had,

1249
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 3: or like the moments of camaraderie we had, or like

1250
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 3: the moments we all had each other's backs and kind

1251
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 3: of like got through the hard times together. And there's

1252
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 3: also like things I'm just little things I'm reminded of.

1253
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 3: And that's why I got the idea to the podcast.

1254
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 3: Is constantly sending bridge at these voice notes like oh

1255
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 3: my god, you remember this or what was this? Or

1256
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 3: like what happened here? And and I'm like, this should

1257
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: just be a podcast talk.

1258
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 1: About Yeah, how how do you feel about the fashion?

1259
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 3: I think the fashion is all making a comeback?

1260
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: Is it kind of is? Right? Yeah?

1261
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 3: I will never wear low rise jeans again.

1262
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 1: What would you never do again?

1263
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 3: Low rice jeans because I just like don't have the

1264
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 3: confidence for it anymore. But like you used to wear them, right, Yeah,

1265
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 3: yeah they were They would like barely cover your crotch.

1266
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: They were so weird.

1267
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,439
Speaker 1: Yes, it was uncomfortable to wear.

1268
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's just like constantly sucking your stomach in,

1269
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 3: Like I'm too tired to do that now. But the

1270
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 3: other stuff, like the juicy track suits, like I still

1271
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 3: buy those, I still buy the tube song. You know.

1272
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 1: So what should stay and what should go from that

1273
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 1: era fashion?

1274
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: Most things should stay except for the low rice genes. Really, okay,

1275
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 2: that's the only thing.

1276
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: Bring Yeah, okay, I'm into it.

1277
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 3: Although the other thing I saw that I would wear

1278
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,240
Speaker 3: sometimes is back in the early two thousands, people would

1279
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 3: like layer the weirdest ship that had no business being layered.

1280
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 3: Like the outfit I had that I'm thinking of is

1281
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 3: I was wearing jeans with like rhinestones on them and

1282
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 3: then like a white button up and then like a

1283
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 3: corset on top of it. A lot of stuff going on,

1284
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 3: and that makes no sense, but you would see it everywhere,

1285
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 3: like I think of it a lot with like Disney

1286
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 3: Channel stars at that time, Like you would see like

1287
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 3: high school musical kids would go out on the red

1288
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 3: carpet and they would have like a dress over jeans

1289
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 3: with like a big scarf and like a boy hat.

1290
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 3: It's like it was like a weird just layering of

1291
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 3: stuff that didn't go.

1292
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was an Abercrombie and Fitch kid. Yeah

1293
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: not that's I'm embarrassed to.

1294
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 2: Say that, but I think everyone was, Yeah.

1295
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: Collars up, like what are we doing? Yeah this necklace

1296
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: like I went to the beach but I didn't.

1297
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 2: I know it so funny.

1298
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't bring that back, but maybe the jeans

1299
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: and stuff. But yeah, that's about it. Well, thanks so

1300
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 1: much for being here. It's been a absolute blast and yeah,

1301
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: this is just awesome. Really appreciate your.

1302
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 2: Time, no problem, thanks for having me, of course. Talking

1303
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: to Death is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts,

1304
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 2: created and hosted by Payne Lindsay.

1305
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: For Tenderfoot TV, executive producers.

1306
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 2: Are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright.

1307
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: Co executive producer is Mike Rooney.

1308
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 2: For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are Matt Frederick and Alex Williams.

1309
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 2: With original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Additional Production

1310
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 2: by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington, Sean Nurney, Dayton Cole, and

1311
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:51,800
Speaker 2: Gustave Wilde for Coohedo. Production support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis,

1312
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 2: and Trevor Young. Mixing and mastering by Cooper Skinner and

1313
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 2: Dayton Cole.

1314
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: Our cover art was created by Rob Sheridan.

1315
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 2: Check out at our website Talking to Death podcast dot

1316
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 2: com