1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: The tiktoks appeared on a Wednesday in late May. One 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: of them began with the words, this is my friend Daisy, 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: maybe you can already picture it. The carnival ride, the 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: neon culors, the high school graduation photo, and then the 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: cut to photos of Victor. Each of the tiktoks had 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: slightly different music and different photos and videos, but all 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: of them told the same story. Daisy's life mattered and 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: the person who took it was still running free. An 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 1: Instagram post was published the same day on a new 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: account called Justice for Daisy. This post contained a slide 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: show of photos of Victor. A lot of them were 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: taken from his own Instagram. In one of them, he 13 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: wore a striped beanie, in another a bowler hat. Each 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: of the photo showed off some identifying feature, gauged ears, 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: or a tattoo of what looked like big rats rolling 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: up his ribcage. The text on the post wasn't all 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: capital letters. If seen, please contact us. Wendy, Daisy's former neighbor, 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: she saw this post while she was scrolling through her 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: Instagram feed one night. 20 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: And then I started seeing the viral video that went 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: on TikTok and I was like, what, like it was him. 22 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Wendy knew who Victor was. 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: She used to see him hanging around the apartment complex 24 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: with Daisy. 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 2: It was shocking. It was very shocking because, like I said, 26 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: we didn't know what was going on in the beginning, 27 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: and then after that while at least I took that 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: out of my head that it was like dangerous that 29 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,279 Speaker 2: we had to be watching her bags for somebody killing 30 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: women or raping them out there and stuff. But I 31 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: was just met at the fact that this kid did 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: something like that and he was thinking that he was 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: going to be able to get away with it. It's like, 34 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: how do you think you're going to get away with 35 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: something like this? Like you killed somebody, like you didn't 36 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: just hurt her. That was like, probably he got tired. 37 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: I've heard he her were you know, so now that 38 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: he killed her, That's what I was thinking. I was 39 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: thinking a lot of things. 40 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: But she desperately wanted to see Victor held accountable for 41 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: Daisy's murder, and so she used the tools at her disposal. 42 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: She went to Instagram and shared the posts. On TikTok, 43 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: she reposted and reposted and reposted, and. 44 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: I would go back and see all the videos because 45 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: they would always come up on the fore you. 46 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: Page, the for you page. It's the homepage that shows 47 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: this never ending scroll of tiktoks from people who you 48 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: may or may not follow. They're all served up by 49 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: this super secretive algorithm to fit each user's individual interests. 50 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: And these tiktoks must have showed up on a lot 51 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: of people's for you pages because there were comments from 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: people shouting out their locations, people as far away as 53 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: Texas and Washington and even Canada. They commented as proof 54 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: of how far the TikTok had spread. And no one 55 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: knows exactly how the TikTok algorithm works, but there's this 56 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: popular thinking around it, which is that the more comments 57 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: a TikTok gets, the more often it'll appear on for 58 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: you pages. So people kind of just kept commenting as 59 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: a way to sort of show how much the TikTok 60 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: had spread, but also to boost its visibility in other 61 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: people's feeds. And it became this thing where people shouted 62 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: out their locations all over southern California, Southgate, Huntington Park, 63 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: South Central Long Beach, Riverside, San Diego. It was like 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: this neighborhood watch assembling on the internet in real time. 65 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: There were comments from people who lived in Daisy's neighborhood 66 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: and people who were appalled that they hadn't heard about 67 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: Daisy's murder until that very moment, including people who actually 68 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: knew Daisy, like Lolly, her friend from middle school. 69 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 3: So I didn't find out about her death until I 70 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 3: saw it on TikTok and I was just like shocked. 71 00:03:58,160 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: I was like, nah, like it's a lie. You know, 72 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: it's a lie. And I just got like the chills 73 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 3: and I was like, no, it's a lie. 74 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: When Lollie got over her shock, she was horrified. 75 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 4: You know, she was a good person. 76 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 5: She didn't deserve it. 77 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 3: I know, it broke me, and it broke a lot 78 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: of people. And just like this case deserves a lot 79 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 3: of awareness, so many other ones do as well, you know, 80 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 3: like so many things happen every day that people don't 81 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 3: even find out, and I feel like TikTok helps with that. 82 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 3: You know, like one person can post a little clip 83 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 3: that they saw and then I'll go viral. So I 84 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: feel like, in a sense, TikTok heals more than the 85 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 3: news outlets and stuff like that, Like we find out 86 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: so much quicker through TikTok than anything else. 87 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 5: You know. 88 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: Lollie's in her early twenties and like a lot of 89 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: people in her age group that I reached out to 90 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: for the story, she was distrustful of the media, you. 91 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 3: Know, sometimes to lie, sometimes they leave things out. Sometimes 92 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 3: they don't even cover what's going on. So I feel 93 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 3: like I'll rely more on TikTok see what's going on, 94 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 3: writ with what's going on around the world. 95 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, is there something that made you not trust the 96 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: news or just saying that you felt like the stories 97 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: you wanted to say where it represented. 98 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 3: I feel like just because they don't cover them enough, 99 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 3: you know, they don't always cover them. Like I could 100 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 3: hear about like a person getting shot. Let's say here 101 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 3: Hunderston Park and the news wonek cover and I'll just 102 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 3: find out because someone posted all this happened or TikTok, 103 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 3: you know. So I feel like the news does doesn't 104 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 3: cover everything. The only cover whatever was viral whatever. 105 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: I found Lollly's view disheartening, but I get it. I mean, 106 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: in the instance of Daisy's murder, Lollly was right. The 107 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,559 Speaker 1: news only covered it once it had gone viral. Prior 108 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: to that, the only article about the murder, it didn't 109 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: even mention Daisy by name. It only referred to her 110 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: as a Jane Doe. But once people learn daisy story, 111 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: once they found out that she had a name and 112 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: a life and friends and family who cared so deeply 113 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: about her, they felt compelled to join the search party 114 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: to help find her murder. But vigilante justice can be 115 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: a tricky thing because once you spot the culprit, or 116 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: you know the person that you believe is the culprit, 117 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: what do you do next? Do you call the cops? 118 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: Do you alert the media? I mean, do you rely 119 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: on these same institutions that have previously failed you? Or 120 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: do you roll up your sleeves and deal with it yourself? 121 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,559 Speaker 1: Does violence justify more violence? What is the right way 122 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: to deliver justice in the age of TikTok? I'm Jen 123 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: Swan from London Audio iHeartRadio and executive producer Paris Hilton. 124 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: This is My Friend Daisy, Episode five? Are You Hiding Him? 125 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: It was a Sunday afternoon in early June of twenty 126 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: twenty one, and Valerie Ariano was panicking. She was standing 127 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: on the Metro light rail train platform when she spotted 128 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: a guy with a skateboard in his hand. Valerie did 129 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: a double take. He looked a lot like Victor. 130 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 4: I saw half of his face. It looked like him, 131 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 4: Like I saw like his eyebrows on his eyes, because 132 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 4: I feel like he has very unique features in that sense. 133 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 4: And I did make eye contact with him, and it 134 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 4: freaked me the hell out. I feel like it was him. 135 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: You might remember Valerie, she grew up in Huntington Park. 136 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: She knew Daisy back in high school. She never met Victor, 137 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: but she'd been seeing photos of him all over Instagram 138 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: and Facebook and TikTok. The posts had been circulating for 139 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: a little less than two weeks, and because of them, 140 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: Valerie had a pretty good sense of what Victor looked like. 141 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 4: He has like deep set eyes now like Dick Guybros. 142 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 4: I've seen a lot of people compare him to Richard Ramirez, 143 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 4: and I'm like, that's a good description, yeah, with that, 144 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 4: especially when he had the long hair. 145 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: Richard Ramirez the so called nightstalker. He was notorious for 146 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: breaking into homes and assaulting and murdering women in la 147 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: in the mid nineteen eighties. When the police finally identified 148 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: him and shared his mugshot with the public, it sent 149 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: the whole city on a manhunt. Residents caught him attempting 150 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: a carjacking just a day later. They beat him up 151 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: so badly that when the police came and arrested him, 152 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: he reportedly shouted, I'm lucky the cops caught me. But 153 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: this was a much different situation. The police hadn't released 154 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: a photo of Victor, but Valerie had little doubt that 155 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: it was him. 156 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 4: I think I just heard through my friends, like for 157 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 4: sure it was the boyfriend, because they said something about 158 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 4: him being the last person this saw her, and yeah, 159 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 4: at night time, I believe. Yeah, So it was just 160 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 4: already established, like it's him, And why is he not 161 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 4: being found, you know, right, Like if he's innocent, why 162 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 4: is he not present? 163 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: You know? 164 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 4: And that's usually how it is with women that are 165 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 4: unfortunately killed. They usually should be looking at the boyfriend 166 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 4: or family members first. 167 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: Valeriees right. Some reports have found that more than half 168 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: of all women killed in the United States were murdered 169 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: by a current or former male intimate partner. That percentage 170 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: goes up when the victim is a young woman. Of color. 171 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: Valerie knew these statistics intuitively, and like a lot of 172 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: people who had been following this case, she had been 173 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: frustrated by the seeming lack of progress made by detectives 174 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: and the lack of news coverage by the media. I mean, 175 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: all she knew about it was what she'd been seeing 176 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: on her social media feeds. 177 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 4: I heard on Instagram girls saying that supposedly they had 178 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 4: seen him, and supposedly that he was trying to approach 179 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 4: other girls on the station. I don't know if that's true. 180 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 4: I never heard like someone say like, oh, yeah, he 181 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 4: approached me. I just heard people mentioning that yeah. And 182 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 4: that's what made me feel like, oh, crap, it is him, 183 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 4: because he's taking He's being seen on the blue line 184 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 4: by other girls, and they're probably like, you know, scared 185 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 4: alone to like, you know, want to call the cops 186 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 4: or something like that. 187 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: That sounds Valerie was also scared, or, as a friend 188 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: Chantelle Patrace put it, Valerie was freaking out, and at 189 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: first Chantelle had no idea why. 190 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 6: I think when you saw him, I was looking another way. 191 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 6: I was looking like, you know, just because I'm like 192 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 6: that I have adhd dude, like i'd be looking and 193 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 6: staring off. So when you turned to me and you're like, oh, 194 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 6: I think I think you told me, oh, I think 195 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 6: that's Victor. And I was just kind of like what 196 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 6: I did see somebody like slight like kind of with 197 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 6: the with the like the figure of him kind of 198 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 6: like leaving. Yeah, but that was it. I didn't actually 199 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 6: see what you saw. You saw him pass by you, 200 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 6: and he went down wherever he went. But I remember you, Yeah, 201 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 6: you were like very frazzled, you know, And obviously I 202 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 6: understood that. 203 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: Valerie desperately wanted Victor to get caught, but she didn't 204 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: want to call nine one one. She remembered thinking, I'm 205 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: not sure whether that's appropriate to call the cops on 206 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: someone who I can't even see their face entirely. Valerie, 207 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: like a lot of people I spoke with in Daisy's community, 208 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: had not had the most pleasant interactions with law enforcement. 209 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: She told me about a time early on in the 210 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: pandemic when she was in a car with her aunt 211 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: and her aunt's boyfriend. A cop pulled them over and 212 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: insisted that their car was registered as stolen. Eventually, according 213 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: to Valerie, the cop told them the real reason he 214 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: pulled them over was because he was looking for Valerie's uncle. 215 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: The car had been registered to a house where he 216 00:11:58,679 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: lived at one point, and. 217 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 4: He did not like that. I was telling him, like, 218 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 4: how can this car be stolen? Like he was lying 219 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 4: and I did not like. That was a bad experience, 220 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 4: and we all felt like on edge. And also he 221 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 4: kept like touching his Guntu. We're like, what the huh? 222 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 4: You know also Latino cup but it's like I don't 223 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 4: care if they're like Asian. 224 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: Okay, So what Valerie is describing. It's known as a 225 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: pretextual stop. It's basically when a cop pulls you over 226 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: for something minor in order to ask you questions about 227 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: a much larger, unrelated, potential offense. It was such a 228 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: widespread practice that California actually passed a lot about a 229 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: year ago banning it. So now when police pull you over, 230 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: at least in California, they have to tell you exactly 231 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: why they're doing so. All to say, when Valerie saw 232 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: the skateboarder who looked like Victor, she did not immediately 233 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: call the police. Instead, she sent a Facebook message to 234 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 1: her best friend, the friend who used to live with 235 00:12:58,679 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: Daisy in her family. 236 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 4: I wrote, I was by the blue line on Florence 237 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 4: and Graham, and I saw someone that look like him, 238 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 4: meaning Victor. Does he skate I'm gonna call the detective number. 239 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 4: And then she said, yes he does, and I wrote, 240 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 4: I'm calling right now. 241 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: Valerie showed me the messages she sent to her best 242 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: friend that day. They were dated June sixth, twenty twenty one. 243 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 4: I called the detective. It left me on voicemail. 244 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 6: They said, go, please leave a message. 245 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: Valerie found his cell phone number plastered all over the 246 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: social media posts that Daisy's friends and family had made, 247 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: and this number right there on the flyers. It seemed 248 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: a lot more accessible, more appropriate than simply calling nine 249 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: one one. 250 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 4: I left him a recording of what I saw. He 251 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 4: quickly left on skateboard, and I put he was wearing 252 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 4: all black, a black beanie, and then I made a 253 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 4: title here. I put in a black ski mask, but 254 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 4: I did not mean that. I meant a black bandana, 255 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 4: so I had corrected pace. And then I put he 256 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 4: left so quickly, but I saw half of his face, 257 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 4: and I looked at him, and then I put maybe 258 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 4: five six five seven in regards to his height, and 259 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 4: then I just reiterated again, it's on Florence and Greyhound. 260 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 4: But he was covering his hair and half of his face. 261 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: And then I said he left quickly. 262 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, and oh, and she was asking me if he 263 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 4: had if I could identify him by his his ear lobes. 264 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 4: So she told me, did you see his ears by 265 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 4: any chance? And I said no, the beanie was covering it. 266 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 4: He had like a beanie and then a hoodie, and 267 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 4: then he had a black bandana. So that looks suspicious 268 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 4: to me because it's like, dude, it's hot as hell 269 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 4: and we're like in an outside area. Why are you 270 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 4: concealing yourself that much? 271 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: Lugo called Valerie back. She told him what she'd seen. 272 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: Her heart was pounding, her adrenaline pup thing. It was 273 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: hard to get words out. 274 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 4: I think I I was just so nervous. I set 275 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 4: ski mask because it was scary that it was potentially victor. 276 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 4: And he did tell me like, oh, we'll try to 277 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 4: send cops to the area. 278 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: And did you stay did you see cops end up 279 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: showing up? 280 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 6: Oh? No. 281 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 4: Her and I don't even remember. 282 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 6: We worked down to a day for sure, but I 283 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 6: remember how you were very obviously very upset, very frazzled, 284 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 6: and yeah, you were shaking quite a bit, and yeah, 285 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 6: obviously it's a very traumatic thing to see possibly, I 286 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 6: mean obviously we don't know right for sure, but possibly 287 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 6: seeing somebody who killed this poor young girl, like you know, 288 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 6: and you know when you when you when you experienced 289 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 6: something like that, it's just kind of like it's jarring 290 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 6: because like, what if it was him and he's just 291 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 6: going about his day. It was really it was a 292 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 6: really emotional intense day. 293 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: A few weeks later, a different woman, also named Valerie, 294 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: was having an emotionally intense day of her own. She 295 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: took to Facebook to let out some rage. She wrote 296 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: in a public comment that she'd been hearing all kinds 297 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: of rumors about where Victor was hiding. He'd been catching 298 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: the blue line and sneaking around the La riverbed, she wrote, 299 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: and now she wanted to go hunt him down. We 300 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: have to lay load to get him. 301 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 5: She wrote. 302 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: We need rope in a bat because he won't go 303 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: down without a fight. When I stumbled upon these comments 304 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: posted in June of twenty twenty one, I was really 305 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: taken aback by Valerie's aggression. This like take no prisoner's 306 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: attitude she had. It made me think about how so 307 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: many people were terrified of running into Victor, and yet 308 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: here she was seeking him out. I immediately wanted to 309 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: know who was this woman, why was she acting like 310 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: this vigilante superhero, and how did she become so invested 311 00:16:51,520 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: in catching a murder suspect. On a smeltering summer day, 312 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: I stood in the parking lot of a mobile home 313 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: community near Compton, and when I spotted someone who looked 314 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: like Valerie Pinatto's Facebook photo, I flagged her down. She 315 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: was short, with square black glasses, and she had a 316 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: haircut that Daisy once had, a black bob with blonde banks. 317 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 3: I'm john nice too. 318 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: We walked across the black top and made small talk 319 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: so hot, I know. Once we got to her place, 320 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: she led me to a small wooden table in her 321 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: living room. 322 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 4: I want this open. 323 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: Eventually we got to talking about Daisy. So and then 324 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: tell me, tell me how you first heard that that 325 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: Daisy had been murdered. 326 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 327 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 5: I first heard about it basically when it was being 328 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 5: spread on Facebook, you know. And I think I was 329 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 5: in a Yeah, I think I was in like a 330 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 5: punk group that like, you know, you share like flyers 331 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 5: of shows and stuff, and usually someone who does get 332 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 5: exposed for violent behavior. It's like we posted like, hey, 333 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 5: watch out for this person and yeah his his story, 334 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 5: like in her story, ended up being posted in that group. 335 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: Valerie remembered looking at the photos and thinking that Daisy 336 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: looked familiar. She was pretty sure she'd seen her around, 337 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: maybe at a punk show. It seems possible they lived 338 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: close to each other, and they seemed interested in the 339 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: same kinds of music. To valerate, Daisy's story felt personal. 340 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 5: I started investing my time to you know, get her 341 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 5: justice basically. What did that look like for you? I 342 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 5: feel like for me, it was you know, going out 343 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 5: there and trying to see where he was at, you know, 344 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 5: look for him, asking around like hey, have you seen 345 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 5: this dude hanging around? Or like are you hiding him? 346 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 5: Like let me find out. 347 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: You know, you actually went to people's houses and said 348 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: are you harboring this person Victor? 349 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 5: Well, it was more like I would ask other punks 350 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 5: like hey, are like, like have you seen Victor? Like 351 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 5: are you hiding him? 352 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 4: You know? 353 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 2: And what do people say? 354 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 5: They would just you know, they're like, no, like I 355 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 5: haven't seen. 356 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: Him, but Valerie wouldn't take no for an answer. She 357 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: was convinced that Victor had to be somewhere hiding, and 358 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: if other people weren't going to write him out, she'd 359 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: find him herself. 360 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 5: Definitely, Yeah, I would go look for Victor, like I actually, 361 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 5: you know, I would be like, yeah, w is he 362 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 5: hanging around Long Beach or in the trails? 363 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 3: You know? 364 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 5: Really? 365 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 7: Mm hmmm, So were you just in your car kind 366 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 7: of like scouting on the sidewalk like oh yeah. 367 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 5: I would tell other people too, like hey, you want 368 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 5: to meet up and look for him? I'd be so down. 369 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 5: I feel like street justice works better than the actual system, 370 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 5: So yeah, I would. I would keeping an eye out 371 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 5: on the street for him because you know, like I 372 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 5: don't know, that's like really scary to have someone that 373 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 5: does something so fucked up to someone else, you know. 374 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 5: I couldn't allow that, not in my neighborhood. 375 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 7: What was sort of going through your head? Like, had 376 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 7: you thought through what you would do if you actually 377 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 7: saw him? 378 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 5: Yeah? I was already thinking. I was like, I'm gonna 379 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 5: beat the shit out of this guy. We'll call the 380 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 5: cops and be like, hey, he's over here. But yeah, no, 381 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 5: I was. I was super angry. I was just mad. 382 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 5: I was like, you know, like, how could you do 383 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 5: something like that to her? Like she didn't deserve it, 384 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 5: you know. I felt like, yeah, I wanted to get 385 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 5: justice for her, like just beat his ass, make him 386 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 5: feel pain. 387 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 2: There. 388 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: It was that anger, that desire for revenge that I'd 389 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: read and Valerie's Facebook comment. I was just as surprised 390 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: by it in person as I was when I read 391 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: it online. Surprised by the way that I don't know 392 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: if Valerie was willing to risk her own safety to 393 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: take action against what she saw as an injustice, not 394 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: just in this instance, but in a bunch of others 395 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: she told me about, Like she told me about this 396 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: time that she hunted down and confronted a friend's boyfriend 397 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: after she heard that he'd been abusive to her. And 398 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: then there was this other time she climbed a ladder 399 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: at a punk show and jumped off into attack a 400 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: guy she'd seen hitting girls in the pit. 401 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 5: Seriously, I jumped off the ladder so fucking quick and 402 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 5: I started punching him. 403 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's like a wrestling move. 404 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 4: Wow. 405 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, I jumped off. He didn't even really notice. You know, 406 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 5: because that was so short, and that's why I kind 407 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 5: of have a scar on my eyelid. I think one 408 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 5: of my eyelids has like permanently scarred. 409 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: Valerie showed me the spot on her eyelid where she 410 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: said she got punched. 411 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 5: And Yeah, after that, a lot of a lot of 412 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 5: girls they whizeed me around at shows and they're like, yeah, 413 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 5: like I'm I'm so glad that you did that. They're 414 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 5: like you're fucking crazy, or they would say the same 415 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 5: thing you did, like oh, you're so like Teff, you know. 416 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 5: And I was like, I I couldn't just sit by 417 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 5: and just watch that shit. 418 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: Tough felt like an understatement. I wanted to know what 419 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: was behind it, So I asked her, how did you 420 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: become so fearless? 421 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 5: I think I became fearless because, you know, of the 422 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 5: type of environment I grew up, and because I went 423 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:24,719 Speaker 5: to military school. 424 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: So military school the kind that teenagers get sent to 425 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: when their parents think they need to be straightened out, 426 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: their drill sergeants, physical training, the whole nine yards. It 427 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: was so intense. Valerie said that she realized she could 428 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: face anything after that. And then, where did you get 429 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: your sense of like justice, Like it seems like you 430 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: have a strong sense of like the community has this 431 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: power that the police don't have. 432 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 5: Like where did that come from? I think for me, 433 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 5: it came from, you know, living in domestic violence. So 434 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 5: I grew up. Yeah, I grew up in a broken home. 435 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 5: I guess you could say parents got when I was 436 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 5: nine and just yeah, like you know, my mom being 437 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 5: a landlord too. Growing up, we would have instances where, 438 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 5: you know, the neighbors they would fight and then I 439 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 5: would hear some of them beat on their girlfriends. And 440 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 5: as a child, you know that mentally scars you sometimes. 441 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 5: And I feel like, yeah, growing up too, seeing women 442 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 5: get beat you know, like all kinds of violence. Yeah, 443 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 5: it makes you want to It makes you want to 444 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,239 Speaker 5: car and have justice for other women that go through that. 445 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: Especially because of what she saw some of her own 446 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: family members go through. 447 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 5: I can obviously say, like what one of my grandpa's 448 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 5: glad I never met him, he tried to kill my 449 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 5: other grandmos with a machete. He left a scar on 450 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 5: her forehead, So pretty much, yeah, it's a generational trauma thing, right. 451 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 5: So that's why when I heard Daisy story, I was like, 452 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 5: I can also relate to that through my grandma's history 453 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 5: because they you know, they have almost gotten killed. You know, 454 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 5: I'm glad they were able to escape that. But so, yeah, 455 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 5: that's what That's why I tell people, you don't you 456 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 5: don't understand until you are in their shoes, and when 457 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 5: you are powerless, when you don't have anywhere to go, 458 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 5: you don't have anyone to defend you, that's what's going 459 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 5: to happen. Yeah, So I hope people will realize that that. Yeah, 460 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 5: like sometimes you're you just yeah, you just get put 461 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 5: in a situation and and your life just just goes 462 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 5: like that. Yeah, women are just going through that every day. 463 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: Women like Valerie. She told me that at one point 464 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: in her life, she found herself in a relationship that 465 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: had become violent, and eventually she realized she needed to 466 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: get out. 467 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 5: It was a hard decision to make. I think it's 468 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 5: because it's like you want to keep giving their person 469 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 5: you love a chance, and then you know, it's like 470 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 5: that unconditional love you have for someone, but then it 471 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 5: just kind of runs out where you can't take it anymore. 472 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 5: You know. I finally decided to put my foot down 473 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 5: and I said, you know what, I can't keep living 474 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 5: like this, Like I don't want to go to jail 475 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 5: and beat his ass back. So yeah, it was a 476 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 5: hard decision. I just you know, planned it, packed my 477 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 5: shit and then I escaped to a domestic violence shelter. 478 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 7: How did you find it? 479 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 5: Well, pretty much like I was already seeing a DV 480 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 5: therapist and then I just had told her when day, 481 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 5: like hey, I'm fed up, Can we, like, you know, 482 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 5: call some places? And she did, We called and pretty 483 00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 5: much yeah, then they accepted me. 484 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 7: Seem like so proactive, Like how did you have this 485 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 7: knowledge to be like, oh, to even get a dB 486 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 7: counselor I think is something that or therapist is something 487 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 7: that I think a lot of women or some women 488 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 7: in that situation maybe wouldn't know to do. Like how, yeah, 489 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 7: how did you navigate that? 490 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 5: So this is this is a funny part. 491 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: What Valerie proceeded to tell me was actually not that funny, 492 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: But I got the sense that she's someone who copes 493 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: with difficult experiences through humor. She said that she never 494 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: really wanted to enroll in therapy, but her caseworker knew 495 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: she was struggling with housing and security because of domestic 496 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: violence and in order to maintain her government benefits. She 497 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: was told she had to sign up for it. 498 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 5: And at first I didn't want to. I was like, nah, 499 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 5: I don't need it. I could deal with my problems. 500 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 5: But then he really pushed me to get it, and 501 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 5: that's when I when I started going, I was like. 502 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: All right, I needed it. 503 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 5: I was just being hardheaded, like, you know, thinking that 504 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 5: I can keep putting, like I could deal with it 505 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 5: myself self. And I still tell my my case worker 506 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 5: thank you all the time, Like I'll text them sometimes 507 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 5: I'd be like, you're you're the you know, you're you're 508 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 5: the you're the shit basically, and he's like, oh, thank you. 509 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 5: You know, I'm glad that you you actually listen to 510 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 5: me this way. 511 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: Valerie said that the experience of doing it, of going 512 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: to therapy and getting out of a bad relationship, it 513 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: taught her a lot. 514 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 5: It like shows you how strong you could be as 515 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 5: a person, you know, like it shows you like how 516 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 5: much life tests you and see if you'l like make 517 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 5: or break it type of shit pretty much like and 518 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 5: it just shows you, like, yeah, how strong you are? 519 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: That is really what true her to Daisy's story, it 520 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: wasn't just that she was also in the punk scene 521 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: and lived in the neighborhood. It was that she knew 522 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: what it was like to be hurt by someone she loved. 523 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 5: That's kind of the reason why I wanted to get 524 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 5: justice for Daisy, Like that was my whole point of 525 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,479 Speaker 5: looking for Victor and all that, because I saw something 526 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 5: in myself that I saw in her. I guess you 527 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 5: could say, not only like personality, but just her you know, 528 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 5: like I was like, yeah, I can't let I can't 529 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 5: let that shit side like that. It really like touched 530 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 5: the corn me. 531 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. What was when. 532 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: You say you saw something in her that you saw 533 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: on yourself, was it was sort of how she looked 534 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: or also just like her situation. 535 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 5: Your situation mostly you know, like she got hurt and 536 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 5: she you know, unfortunately, like she couldn't get her life back, 537 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 5: and you know, I didn't get justice for some of 538 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 5: the things that happened to me, but I'm still alive. 539 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 5: So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna get 540 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 5: justice for her, just as I wish somebody would get 541 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 5: justice for me. 542 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: But as much as she looked and as determined as 543 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: she was vollering, never did find Victor. Nobody seemed to 544 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: know where he was hiding, including the detectives. But all 545 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: of these social media posts they were doing something. They 546 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: were getting more eyes on the case, more community involvement. 547 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: They were building public pressure, the kind of pressure detectives 548 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: couldn't ignore. Next time on My Friend Daisy. 549 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,959 Speaker 8: They put out something on social media, so and they 550 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 8: put out my cell number so I'd get called in 551 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 8: the middle of the night all the time. Hi everyone, 552 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 8: this is Paris. Thanks for listening to My Friend Daisy. 553 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 8: If you are someone you love is experiencing abuse, you 554 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 8: are not alone. Help is available twenty four to seven. 555 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 8: Contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline for free confidential support. 556 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 8: Call eight hundred seven nine to nine seven two three three, 557 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 8: text start to eight eight seven eight eight, or visit 558 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 8: the hotline dot org your safety matters reach out today. 559 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: My Friend Daisy is a production of London Audio with 560 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: support from Sony Music Entertainment. It's reported, written and executive 561 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: produced by me Jen Swan. I'm also your host. Our 562 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: executive producers for London Audio are Paris Hilton, Bruce gersh 563 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: Bruce Robertson and Joanna Studebaker. Our executive producer for Sony 564 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: Music Entertainment is Jonathan Hirsch. Our associate producer is Zoe Kulkin. 565 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: Production assistants and translations by Miguel Contreras, Sound design, composing 566 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: and mixing by Hans Dale she Our fact checker is 567 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: Bendel Fulton, Our head of production is Sammy Allison, and 568 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: our production manager is Tamika Balance Colosny Special thanks to 569 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: Steve Akerman, Emily Rossick, and Jamie Myers at Sony, Ben 570 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: Goldberg and Orley Greenberg at UTA, and Jen Ortiz at 571 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: the Cut. And I wanted to let you know about 572 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: the statistics that I cited in this episode. They come 573 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: from the CDC. They were published in July of twenty seventeen, 574 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: and you can find them online under the title Racial 575 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: and Ethnic Differences in Homicide of Adult Women and the 576 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: Role of Intimate Partner Violence. And if you're interested in 577 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: reading more about the link between intimate partner violence and homicide, 578 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: there's another study that I read called Examining Intimate Partner 579 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: Violence Related Fatalities. It was published in the Journal of 580 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: Family Violence in January of twenty twenty three. Thank you 581 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: so much for listening.