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Speaker 1: T Casper Mattresses. We love them, all right. This is

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Speaker 1: not a test. I'm about to talk to fucking Marty

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Speaker 1: Scorsese about Raging bull This is not a test, Marty.

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Speaker 1: It's Michael Rappaport, Michael, how are you doing. I'm doing good.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing? Oh? You know, who are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm in Los Angeles right now? Are you in New York? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So what are you doing? So I'm doing something to

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Speaker 1: celebrate because it's you know, I have a bunch of them.

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Speaker 1: Like it's hard to say one but Raging Bull. It's

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Speaker 1: the thirty fifth anniversary. I don't even know if you're

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Speaker 1: aware of it. It was released thirty five years ago.

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Speaker 1: And the movie, the movie means so much to me

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Speaker 1: and to so many people. So I was doing you know,

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Speaker 1: I was doing like a sort of a you know,

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Speaker 1: like a roundtable on it. And I had a we

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Speaker 1: had a little screening of the film, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you some questions. I got

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Speaker 1: to talk to something. First question I wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: you is you know, I mean, I know it came

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Speaker 1: out thirty five years ago, um, and I know you

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Speaker 1: guys were working on it a few years before that.

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Speaker 1: You know, in looking back on that film, what did

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Speaker 1: you take away, you know, as a filmmaker from from

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Speaker 1: the process of of of making Raging Bull and that time,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean and and the idea of even

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Speaker 1: trying to make a film like that in this day

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Speaker 1: and age. What do you remember and what did you

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Speaker 1: take away from it when you think of that film? Well, it's, um,

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Speaker 1: the film was made for me nder special circumstances, you know,

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Speaker 1: and um, ultimately, I think you played it out completely

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Speaker 1: in terms of I know, Bob as an actor and

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Speaker 1: me as a filmmaker. I mean, we just played everything out.

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Speaker 1: We just put everything we new into it and sort

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Speaker 1: of the end of one thing and maybe the beginning

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Speaker 1: of another. I wasn't even sure where what I was

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Speaker 1: going to do for the rest of my life going

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Speaker 1: honestly after that. So it was it was It was

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Speaker 1: a kind of a h It wasn't basically like they

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Speaker 1: used to turn out game change, but a game change you.

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Speaker 1: Mainly for me. I don't know about Bob, but certainly

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Speaker 1: for me. That's a that's interesting. That's a that's a

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Speaker 1: interesting like what was going on that you you were

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Speaker 1: sort of at that point to to sort of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, just sort of give everything up of yourself

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Speaker 1: of it because you know, honestly, you know, when I

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Speaker 1: look at that film and I've watched it so many times,

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Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes I watch it just as a fan,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes I've watched it as an actor, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I just look at the cinematography, you know,

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Speaker 1: like there's so many layers in it, and there's so

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Speaker 1: much texture to the sound, to the to the camera movements.

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Speaker 1: You know, what was going on with you where you

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Speaker 1: were kind of where you just said, I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know if I was what you were going to do

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Speaker 1: with the rest of your life, Like, like, what what

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Speaker 1: do you mean by that? Well, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's gonna make films anymore. I didn't know if I

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Speaker 1: would have the passion again to make a picture. Um.

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Speaker 1: What I mean is that part of the complex, because

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Speaker 1: part of me wanted to be a film director who

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Speaker 1: can make pretty much, you know, any story or uh

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Speaker 1: different genres. Um. The other part of me was more

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Speaker 1: into a personal style of filmmaking that was more European

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Speaker 1: or Scandinavian or Asian Japanese, you know that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: There's big influences, and then of course there was Cassavetti's

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Speaker 1: which was the uh the main Casaveties, and of course

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Speaker 1: over towering overall that was Kazan. So you know, for

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Speaker 1: me where was I Where was I to go ultimately UM,

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Speaker 1: with all these influences, But prior to that, I mean

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Speaker 1: after doing right around the time to Bling New York,

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Speaker 1: New York and last Waltz was a period of experimenting

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Speaker 1: UM and trying things, failing, succeeding in certain places where

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Speaker 1: he didn't think he would, and ultimately trying to find

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Speaker 1: a way to feel strongly again about making pictures. After

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Speaker 1: after New York, New York, I didn't feel UM. I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel that I would be able to go the

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Speaker 1: set uh and make a movie go on location. UM.

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Speaker 1: I was really concerned about could I ever care about UM?

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Speaker 1: Not the subject matter, but the process itself and what

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Speaker 1: you have to go through U to put myself on

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Speaker 1: the line, everything on the line and includes you, your

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Speaker 1: health and you know it sounds crazy, but your health,

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Speaker 1: your money, family, everything for UM A project and the

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Speaker 1: one that came to mind me was Gangs of New York.

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Speaker 1: I was preparing to that, but I my personal life

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Speaker 1: became very difficult and I almost UH bad accidents and

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Speaker 1: basically accidence meaning that kind of player was just depleted

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Speaker 1: up pull a lot and then finally UM pushed me

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Speaker 1: to make the Raging Ball. He had been asking me

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Speaker 1: for years, and we've been trying in different scripts and

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But forward different script, I should say.

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Speaker 1: And uh, finally I said, I kind of understood that

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Speaker 1: everything I was looking for, everything will to struggle I

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Speaker 1: was having, was put the movies about, and was about

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Speaker 1: learning to learning to learn again. Put it that way,

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Speaker 1: because every time you go you try to do something,

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Speaker 1: it's it's like it's as if you never did it before.

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Speaker 1: It was a humbling experits because they're okay, now I

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Speaker 1: can start all over. And then after this I can

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Speaker 1: start over again if I can, if not, onto something else,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know. And so then things changed

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Speaker 1: and I put everything I put into the picture um

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Speaker 1: and in every way. But basically it was about finding

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Speaker 1: finding that soul again. I got you. That makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense. I mean, I had a bit of

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Speaker 1: it in the last Woltz, but the Last Woltz is

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Speaker 1: primarily you know this incredible these incredible performers a New York,

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Speaker 1: New York. I did did some interesting but I felt

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Speaker 1: that I could have been more rigorous in uh, in

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Speaker 1: the approach uh and and certain certain aspects and um,

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Speaker 1: I was disappointed myself with the results. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: the actors weren't going to believe me. They commeraman uh

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Speaker 1: laslow Covacs, the production design, everything, the music. It's just

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Speaker 1: something I wanted to try that I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I ever reached. And I was disappointed by my myself

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Speaker 1: for that. You see, I got I got you. That

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Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. And then I acted out right,

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Speaker 1: would you consider doing something as small and as intimate

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Speaker 1: in this climate of of making movies and where you are,

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Speaker 1: would you ever consider saying, you know, like doing something

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Speaker 1: as like you would? Huh always? Yeah? No. In fact,

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Speaker 1: my pot departed was but then it became bigger, right,

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Speaker 1: it got bigger as we were shooting it. But actually

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Speaker 1: it's not that big if you look at the shots

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Speaker 1: and the scenes. Um and um. Also, how do you

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Speaker 1: go bolt Ballstreet? Know? Oh this new one in silence? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that has a it's it's the seventeenth century, so in

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Speaker 1: the countryside and Nagasaki aside Nakasaki, so you're forced to

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Speaker 1: think in different scale, on a different scale, you see.

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Speaker 1: And so that's been that bad as a big struggle

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Speaker 1: and something I was looking forward to for a long time. Um,

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Speaker 1: and a good and uh, I should say careful way

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Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's a big test. Because of that,

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Speaker 1: I was trying that, um, but there's no doubt if

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Speaker 1: I've tried. That's why I've tried a couple of clilts.

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Speaker 1: Shoot quickly. I mean, what Empire was pretty big and

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Speaker 1: it's vinal though I think, um, I think it is

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Speaker 1: more controlled in terms of how should I say it's

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Speaker 1: crazier and wilder, but that reflects a state of mind

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Speaker 1: of the guys putting the music together, in the musicians

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Speaker 1: and that sort of thing in New York in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy three, which later when I made in main streets.

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Speaker 1: So it's crazier and wilder. But on the other hand, um,

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Speaker 1: it gave me I don't know, the energy was such

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Speaker 1: so strong, and the actors were so good in the

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Speaker 1: writing and the music, and I just like it was

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Speaker 1: a joy, you know, it was a joy. And that

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Speaker 1: suddenly made me realize, Okay, I could do something in

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Speaker 1: twenty eight days or thirty days, and you know it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to you know, it doesn't have to. But

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Speaker 1: I'm aiming towards that kind of thing. I do get

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Speaker 1: stuced by b or so it's not the right word.

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Speaker 1: But movies like the Aviator, respectable, you know movies. They

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Speaker 1: were making movies in Hollywood and the color and the airplanes,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I did get gangs, but Gangs in

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Speaker 1: New York was not Tangs in New York was something

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Speaker 1: that is a that was sometimes planned all the way

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Speaker 1: back to seventy four, seventy five, seventy six, and eventually

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Speaker 1: became the movie it became. But um, that was meant

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Speaker 1: to be big and sprawling forward. We're all crazy like that,

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Speaker 1: like the city itself, you know. Um, but it took

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Speaker 1: years to get it done. Anyway, And my final my

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Speaker 1: final question, And I can't tell you how much I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you doing this, and because I don't want to

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Speaker 1: keep you on, because honestly, Marty, I think that every

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Speaker 1: year should be there, should be every year should be

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Speaker 1: a sort of celebration of raging bull. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: get a statue built. I'm kidding. I'm kidding if you

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Speaker 1: said you guys pull it together for me. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: they don't even show they don't show it on TCM.

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Speaker 1: Um maybe once every few years for Oscar time. But

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Speaker 1: they usually put on one o'clock in the morning because

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Speaker 1: they claim it's I guess, because they claim it's too violent.

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Speaker 1: But they showed main streets. But they show main streets

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Speaker 1: at three thirty in the morning, which it should be

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Speaker 1: a thing. I mean, in this day and age, what

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Speaker 1: people could get on their phone is way worse than

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Speaker 1: anything you've ever made, you know what I mean. I know,

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Speaker 1: I know you know, but but so just it's just

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Speaker 1: to tell you this is so Obviously I've watched the film,

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Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of times, um, and when I

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Speaker 1: watched it with a live audience just the other day,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting because when I first saw it,

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Speaker 1: I was young, so I didn't you know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what was going on. But I'm curious, you know,

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Speaker 1: because when I watch you with the live audience up

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Speaker 1: until uh the Jake LaMotta character gets violent with his wife,

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Speaker 1: you know where that obviously there's nothing is no longer funny.

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Speaker 1: There's so many there's so much humor in the film. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know. I was just talking to some

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Speaker 1: people now about the same kind of thing as the

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Speaker 1: kind of humor you know. Um, it's New York Italian Jewish,

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Speaker 1: which is how I grew up, you know, and for me,

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Speaker 1: the humor comes from up until it gets you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, the physical stuff. Yeah, then it's that it's

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Speaker 1: no longer funny. But his frustration, you know, like that

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Speaker 1: that can be funny when somebody's so frustrated and someone

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Speaker 1: can't see anything absurdity of its laugh at yourself. If

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Speaker 1: you get to that point where to laugh at yourself,

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Speaker 1: that's good. But that doesn't mean the frustration doesn't go away.

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Speaker 1: Right Were you were you guys aware of that? Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's hard, I know, it's so long ago,

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Speaker 1: and obviously you've done somebody. Were you aware of that,

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Speaker 1: the humor and raging? But while you were making it

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Speaker 1: like or I think so? I think we I think

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Speaker 1: we started to We just reacted the way we used

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Speaker 1: to react, I mean, the way I normally react to her,

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Speaker 1: the way I grew up in the streets, uh, in

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Speaker 1: my household, that was that was in um. You just

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Speaker 1: reacted to what was genuinely funny about being alive, about

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Speaker 1: trying to make a life. But it's always about loss

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Speaker 1: of money, money, this power, you know, all kinds of stuff,

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Speaker 1: things that the upper classes, I guess don't really, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. But in the world I grew up in,

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Speaker 1: being was very basic and hum came from the real situations,

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Speaker 1: very real situations, and the irony of things, the irony

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Speaker 1: about how the people live to now who said what

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Speaker 1: about whom? And how could they speak that way? And

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Speaker 1: who knows who? Money? And it goes on like that

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Speaker 1: and who you know, this sort of thing, and so

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Speaker 1: it all came from that. And also growing up around

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Speaker 1: the time of the great Golden Age of television with

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Speaker 1: your show of shows and all the great uh the

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Speaker 1: Jewish comedy Uh. And you see them acting out can

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Speaker 1: you see him up there? Said Caesar? Imagine Coker you

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Speaker 1: see you know, written by these extraordinary writers. Uh. Other shows. Uh.

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Speaker 1: All the sort of humor was really very a lot

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Speaker 1: because those shows were live. Do you see on nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty fifty six. I mean it's a very special time. Um.

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Speaker 1: The humor of Smith and Dale coming out of uh,

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Speaker 1: which became like the Sunshine Boys, which it's like it's

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Speaker 1: just being the human being and expressing how you feel

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Speaker 1: in the humor and the irony comes out of that,

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Speaker 1: you know. So we knew it at the time but

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Speaker 1: we didn't know be a funny movie. We didn't think

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Speaker 1: it was funny. We just thought funny irony, like yeah, perfect. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, he says, you know, the terrible things in

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Speaker 1: the whole way with his brother, and he says you

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Speaker 1: should kill her about his wife. He's eight, don't talk

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Speaker 1: to that's still my wife. There's a certain there's a

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Speaker 1: certain line you do not cross. What line didn't he cross? Right? Right,

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Speaker 1: there's so many of those lines, like all that sort

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Speaker 1: of he's like, you know, hit her with a baseball.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like your laugh, it's totally crazy. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's how I kind of actually, you know, not

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Speaker 1: that my parents with you know, it's it's hard to

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Speaker 1: say because people don't understand it was. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I'm seventy three, but talking about something half a century ago,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I you know, I had something

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Speaker 1: I know that I grew up with. So Marty, I

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Speaker 1: I want to tell you, I really appreciate it. I

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Speaker 1: wish you a great holiday and joy the new year,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate you taking the time. It really means

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Speaker 1: a lot to me. And Okay, Michel, let me know

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Speaker 1: what you do. Okay, let me know how things go.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, thank you, thank you, all right, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what to say. Um, the fact that

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Speaker 1: I was able to get Mortin Scorsese to be on

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Speaker 1: the Iron Wrapping Port podcast, He's a a is a

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Speaker 1: monumental mountaintop moment. Um. I need to uh catch my breath.

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Speaker 1: That was really that was that was dope. That was

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Speaker 1: dope and uh yeah see Iron Wrapporp podcast. All right. So, um,

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Speaker 1: the reality of Raging Bull is that it's about a

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Speaker 1: real boxer, and the real boxer is obviously Jake Clamata,

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Speaker 1: and uh, pretty much all the boxing stuff was very

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Speaker 1: uh spot on in the film. Uh you know what

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Speaker 1: happened in the ring. Um. The most famous sort of

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Speaker 1: line and memory, I think from Raging bulls when Ray

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Speaker 1: Leonard Sugar Sugar Ray robertson, sorry, I was fighting Jake

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Speaker 1: Clomata and he sort of absorbs all the punishment and

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Speaker 1: then he says he never got me down, Ray, he

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Speaker 1: never got me down after he takes a ginormous beating

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Speaker 1: in Raging Bull. So I'm calling my friend, probably the

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Speaker 1: number one boxing alice in the world, Max Kellerman, to

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Speaker 1: break down the real Jake Clamata. First, the performance by

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Speaker 1: de Niro Jakelomata, and also, uh, you know at his

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the film, because he's a humongous fan as well.

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Speaker 1: All Right, So I'm gonna get my man. Uh right now? Hello, Max,

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Speaker 1: It's Michael Rappaport. Hey Michael, what's going on? How doing

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Speaker 1: a man? All Right? So I told you Max, I'm

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Speaker 1: doing an all Raging Bull episode of the Iron Wrap

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Speaker 1: More podcast. The first thing I wanted to ask you

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Speaker 1: about was the real Jake Clamata as a fighter versus

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Speaker 1: how he was depicted in the film. Was it depicted properly?

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Speaker 1: And and but just first speak on who is Jake

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Speaker 1: Clomata in in in boxing lore, in boxing history, what

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Speaker 1: does he mean to boxing? And what kind of boxer?

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Speaker 1: And what what is he? What is he best known for?

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Speaker 1: So breakdown Jake Clamata. The number one attribute he had

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Speaker 1: was his chin. He could take punishment like nobody else.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are a couple of fighters on that list,

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Speaker 1: Marvin Hagler that I've seen in my lifetime, Daniels Arragoza,

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Speaker 1: and there were fighters before um Lamata. But if push

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Speaker 1: comes to show, if you say, who's the guy who

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Speaker 1: could take the best punch ever, I would say Jake Lamata.

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Speaker 1: He was never legitimately off his feet and so so

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Speaker 1: you know, he's known for that. I think also, as

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Speaker 1: it was depicted in the movie, the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was this highly avoided middleweight contender trying to trying to

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Speaker 1: do it on his own. But the fact was the

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Speaker 1: mob had to stranglehold on boxing at the time, and

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Speaker 1: so he had to throw a fight to get a

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Speaker 1: title shot. How how real is that whole thing about

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Speaker 1: fights being fixed, you know, the mobs, you know, hold

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Speaker 1: on boxing and and that whole element obviously, I mean

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just Lamta and just the raging bull of

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Speaker 1: at all, but like speak on that like that was

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Speaker 1: a real thing. Like that was a real problem for fighters,

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Speaker 1: and you had to take dives in order to get

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Speaker 1: this and you know, sort of compromise yourself, uh and

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Speaker 1: in order to really get a shot at the titles.

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Speaker 1: That was that real stuff. Yeah, there was. There was.

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Speaker 1: There was something called the ib C, you know all

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Speaker 1: these sanctioning bodies today. The ib C was the International

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Speaker 1: Boxing Club I think it was the acronym, and it

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Speaker 1: was basically a syndicate more or less you were at

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Speaker 1: least it had all these different venues throughout the country,

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Speaker 1: all the biggest venues in the biggest fight towns in

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Speaker 1: New York, all the big venues in Chicago, big venues

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Speaker 1: like that. And if you wanted a big flight at

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Speaker 1: a big venue, it's the top fighter, you had to

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Speaker 1: do business with him. And that went on for years. Um.

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Speaker 1: In fact, custom Motto is usually credited as the guy

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Speaker 1: who who ultimately broke the I broke the stranglehold of

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Speaker 1: the ib c uh you know on the biggest titles

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Speaker 1: and biggest fighters in boxing and and Thelmata, Ray robertson

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Speaker 1: the Sugar Ray robertson Jake LaMotta fights. Um, were they

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Speaker 1: as vicious and as brutals they were depicted in the film?

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Speaker 1: And do you know of la Mata, the real Lomata

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Speaker 1: actually ever saying to him like one of the most

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Speaker 1: famous lines in in in uh in the movie. And

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's been sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: used outside the movie is you never got me down right?

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Speaker 1: Like so talked about the real fights and and and

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Speaker 1: how are they depicted? And just in terms of boxing history,

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Speaker 1: because they fought three times. They talked about them as

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Speaker 1: they fought six times. Six times, they fought six times.

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Speaker 1: The only one I've seen is called the Saint Valentine's

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Speaker 1: Day massacre. That's the last one, the one you're referring to.

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Speaker 1: You never knocked me down, right When Lamatta at that

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Speaker 1: point had the middleweight championship that he won from Marcel

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Speaker 1: sa Dan, the great French fighter, and Robinson moved up

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Speaker 1: from welterweight to fight Lamonto for that was their last fight.

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Speaker 1: They fought five times before that already ye La Matto

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Speaker 1: went to Lamart Game. Robin who should Ray Robinson one

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Speaker 1: was forty and all when he fought Jake Lamata um

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Speaker 1: and Lamota Game in his first loss in New York.

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Speaker 1: It was it was sugar raised New York debut, and

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Speaker 1: later he became very associated with New York City and

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Speaker 1: had businesses in Harlem and fought a lot in New York.

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Speaker 1: But Robinson was from Detroit, as Joe Lewis was, and

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Speaker 1: he comes to New York. He can't get anyone to

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Speaker 1: fight him and either kill Lamata. So they fought each other.

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Speaker 1: Lamata outweigh him by about fifteen pounds. Ray was a

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Speaker 1: welter weight. Lamta was a middleweight and Lamata knocks him

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Speaker 1: down you know early, and if I think in the

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Speaker 1: first round, and Robinson comes back to beat him, and

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Speaker 1: they fight again a couple of months later, and this

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Speaker 1: time Lamato wins, knocks him down again, and they fight again,

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Speaker 1: like three or four weeks later. In this on Robinson wins.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember if Robinson got dropped in that one.

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Speaker 1: Uh and like that, and La Mata eventually said, I

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Speaker 1: thought Sugar Ray Robinson. I thought Sugar Ray so much

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Speaker 1: I got diabetes something like that one. But but he

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Speaker 1: was you know, Robinson didn't lose another fight until he

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Speaker 1: had a hundred and thirty wins. LaMotta is the only

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Speaker 1: guy to beat him while he was in his prime. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you hear like Floyd Mayweather, he's forty nine,

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Speaker 1: and oh this one has this many wins with the losses,

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Speaker 1: let me know, when you got a hundred thirty wins,

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Speaker 1: how many losses you got? You know, Lamta lost to

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Speaker 1: that guy a lot. The greatest fighter who ever lived, Robinson. Um.

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Speaker 1: But but in spite of the fact that that Lamato

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Speaker 1: was able to not to drop Sugar Ray a lot,

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Speaker 1: he was not a big country. He wasn't a knockout

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Speaker 1: artist in terms of the way they depicted him in

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Speaker 1: the movie. Um usual. He was a brawler, He was

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Speaker 1: an inside fighter. He was very slick on his way inside,

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Speaker 1: hard dick because he had short arms and he was

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Speaker 1: short and small hands. As he said in the movie,

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Speaker 1: um but but but was not a knockout fight. Didn't

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Speaker 1: usually knock his guy out, usually worked them over and

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Speaker 1: one on points as a as a brutal knockout artist.

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Speaker 1: That's not what he was. And that's really good. And

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Speaker 1: and is that is that famous line you never got

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Speaker 1: me down, right? I mean, he never got him down.

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Speaker 1: But we don't know if that was said or actually

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Speaker 1: not said, or if that was just you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't I couldn't. I couldn't tell you offhand if he

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Speaker 1: actually said it. Uh. You know, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: fights in that era, um uh, that Lamota fought don't

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Speaker 1: exist anymore. Um because during the war, during the Second

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Speaker 1: World War, the the celluloid that they you know made

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Speaker 1: film four was thought to be very necessary for the

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Speaker 1: war effort, and so they preserved Joe Lewis's fights because

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Speaker 1: he was heavyweight champ. And I had I've seen some

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Speaker 1: home movies of Robinson and different fighters from that era.

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Speaker 1: But during the Second World War, during those years, you know,

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Speaker 1: mid forties, you don't really have a lot of existing footage.

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Speaker 1: So the so the Lamata that you see is from

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Speaker 1: you know, after that, and the Robinson Lamota fight that

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Speaker 1: I've seen many times, you know, and and different rounds

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Speaker 1: from it is the Saint Valentine's Day massacre for the

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Speaker 1: middleweight title. All that's good, and then and then and

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Speaker 1: what about what do you know about Like Lamata's you know, upbringing.

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Speaker 1: He's from the Bronx He's the Bronx Bowl, the Raging Bowl,

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Speaker 1: So like what what what can you break down about?

424
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: Like you know how you know he came up and

425
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: you know what his what his what his background? He

426
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: came up. He came up running the streets in the

427
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: Bronx Ian Rocky Rocky Raziano was a very colorful fighter.

428
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: Uh from that same time. He was a bigger puncher

429
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: than Lamata, but not as great a fighter. And he

430
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: had a crazy three fight series with Tony's ail um considered,

431
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the best action series ever in the

432
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: history of boxing. Uh. And somebody up there likes me.

433
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: Paul Newman. That's the Rocky Graziano Steward another great boxing movie.

434
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: Um and and Graziano came up running the streets with Lamatta,

435
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: used to say because Graziano and you know, Lamatta did

436
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: stand up acts basically at nightclubs. Later on in life

437
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: and Gratzie, one of Graziano's famous lines was, we never

438
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: stole anything unless a big bang with an a a car,

439
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: a truck, you know, like this, and and and it's

440
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: funny that these two guys would come up together and

441
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: eventually both be the middleweight champion of the world at

442
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: different times. That is crazy, all right, This is exactly Uh,

443
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: you know what what I mean, You're you're around fighters,

444
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,719
Speaker 1: uh more than you know anybody who's not an actual fighter,

445
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: you know what, from all the years and all the research,

446
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: and you know, obviously before you became Max Kellerman, you know,

447
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: and an analyst, you were, you know, you were a fan.

448
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: What is it about fighters in general? What is it

449
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: about their lifestyle, what it takes, the commitment that they continue.

450
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm shocked that Creed was as good and

451
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: as successful as it turned out, you know, because I'm

452
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: the most cynical Rocky fan out there. But what is

453
00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: it about boxers that you think make for great movies? Well,

454
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: I mean, first of it's the same thing that makes

455
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: boxing more compelling than other sports. I do this thought experiment.

456
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: You know, through the years, I've done it a hundred times.

457
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know if you come where I can

458
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 1: prove to anyone boxing is their favorite sport in you know,

459
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: thirty seconds to come to a street corner and two

460
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: guys are playing to pick up a game of basketball

461
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: in one corner. On another corners to stick you know,

462
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: a stickball game. On a third corner there you know whatever,

463
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: throwing the football round. And on the fourth corner there's

464
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: a fist fight. Where's the crowd? You know, the crowds

465
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: are around the fist fight. So then the question is what,

466
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: because you know, it's just intrinsically more compelling, Why is

467
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: it more compelling? Because everything else is metaphor and boxing

468
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: is literal. So so you know, if Agacy can't return

469
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: Sampras's serve, it's because Sampras has metaphorically imposed his will

470
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: on Agacy, the ball being the surrogate for his will.

471
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: If if if Mike Tyson can't get up from a

472
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: Lennox Lewis right hand, it's literal, it's not a metaphor.

473
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: His brain is telling his legs get up. His legs

474
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: can't do it. And that's because Lennox has literally separated

475
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: him from his own will. Right, So the literal imposition

476
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: of one will on another is simply more compelling than

477
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: a metaphor for the same thing. And in in the

478
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: in the movie, it works in reverse if you're using

479
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: stories as a metaphor for people's struggle, right, I mean,

480
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: that's it's conflict and resolution, and that's what drama is.

481
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 1: You know, what's what is a better metaphor for it

482
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: than boxing, where they where they are literally fighting, they're

483
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: fighting for something. And then of course, you know, when

484
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: you get into the character study of it, all these

485
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: guys are interesting guys. You've gotta be a little crazy

486
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: to get in there and fight, and and you know,

487
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: a little crazy is usually pretty fun to watch, all right,

488
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: Max Kellerman, this is exactly what what what I thought,

489
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: uh you you would bring to this. Um. I appreciate

490
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: you doing it. Um, I appreciate your insight. You're the

491
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: best in the business, and uh, you know, I just

492
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: appreciate you doing doing this for me and for for

493
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: Raging Both thirty fifth anniversary. Can you believe that movie

494
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: is thirty five years old? And when it like it

495
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: ages so well, it's still it's still, you know, amazing

496
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: to watch. You can watch mean Streets and you can

497
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: see him working some of that stuff out. And later

498
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: on Good Fellas was you know, maybe uh more I

499
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to say advanced. It was,

500
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: you know, a more mature work later in his life.

501
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: But then it feels like it was a little derivative

502
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: of Outraging Bull. Raging Bull was was to me score

503
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: Cass uh absolute best, you know, and and and I

504
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: think didn't win Best Picture of the Eighties at the time,

505
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: at the end of the end of the day, at

506
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: the end of the decade, it won best It won

507
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: the best film of the eighties. But when it when

508
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: it you know, when it came out, I mean, you know,

509
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: de Niro obviously you couldn't deny his performance. But Ordinary

510
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: People beat Raging Both for Best Film Night teenage. If

511
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: you could believe that, I mean, listen, Dances with Wolves

512
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: beat Good Felt. What are you gonna do? What are

513
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: you gonna do? You win? You win? If you lose,

514
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: you still win, you still win. You can't move yo, Max,

515
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: Thanks for doing this, Michael, my pleasure any time. About

516
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: Juliet Lewis Juliette. Yes, I'm here, all right. So Raging Bull,

517
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: Raging Bull, you're you're sort of a raging bullet. Raging bull. Well,

518
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how to take that, but there's there's

519
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: so many parts to Raging Bulls that are iconic. It

520
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: feels like there were seven movies in one movie. And

521
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: then and then you know, like from what you were

522
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: just talking about, the violent that Scarcese showed with Teshi,

523
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: that kind of violence that's so absurd but so real

524
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: and maybe people laugh, but made you so uncomfortable. It

525
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: was so weird. It was such a combination of things. Yeah,

526
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: I I know what you mean. And and and I

527
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: don't know when the last time you saw the flick

528
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: was Jewels. But you know, like I would call you

529
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: a tough broad. But like that movie, the way it

530
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: resonates with men, I have to assume it resonates differently

531
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: with women. I mean, but just just talk to me

532
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: about like as an actor, like the performances and the

533
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: method acting, and you know, even Kathy Moriarty. I mean

534
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: she was so beautiful, I mean stunning in that movie,

535
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: like like like like probably one of the most beautiful

536
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: movie characters I I could think of. You know, when

537
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: you think of the way she looked in that film,

538
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: the way she was dressed, her hair, the blonde hair,

539
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: she was well, I yeah, I can't speak on how

540
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: it resonates male and female, but as an as an

541
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: actor person, you know who who is drawn to characters

542
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: and truth and complexity, that's what it's about. But yeah,

543
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: but regular folks did that, regular folks Lulu am I?

544
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: When am I from the fifties? So regular folks, um No.

545
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: But there's just those scenes. I think that's a guy

546
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: that's unstoppable. He's like unpunishable and and for me the

547
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: scene of course that's Santaga. You didn't knock mcdown, Ray,

548
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: you didn't knock me down? Like he's a bloody fucking

549
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: meth he's like a zombie. But I don't know. It

550
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: speaks to the spirit of of keep getting up and

551
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: there's a brutality in it, but there's so much heart

552
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: and he's such a bizarre character. I don't know that

553
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: I would be friends with the guy so I don't

554
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: know why it was so it resonated. What do you

555
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: think why did it resonate with some people that when

556
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: it's such a niche in a world from the Bronx, Yeah,

557
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: from the Bronx. And and and I think that that

558
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: you never got me down, Ray, and that that thing,

559
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: I think I think that's something anyone can relate to

560
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: in any world. Like I think it's sort of like,

561
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, a tenacity, and it's like in life, you know,

562
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: it's like you you know, we all get the ship

563
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: kicked out of us, and you know, he never went down,

564
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: but you know, like there's there's sort of like a

565
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's a metaphor for life. And although it's

566
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: so it's so extreme with what he does in the movie,

567
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: but I think like that line and that sort of

568
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: you know what what when he's saying that after taking

569
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: such a beating, because you know, you get you get

570
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: your ass kicked um in life, you get your ass

571
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: kicked in relationships. You know, I kicked my own ass

572
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,719
Speaker 1: personally every time I laid down to to to sleep.

573
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: And and and I think, but but you know, so

574
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: I think that's it's it's crazy that there's there is

575
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: that sort of thing because when you when you watch

576
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,959
Speaker 1: the movie, it's it's not an easy film to watch.

577
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: It's it's not like you could sit down and be like, hey,

578
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: let's watch Raging Bull and we're gonna it's it's not

579
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: it's not that kind of movie. You know. Um yet,

580
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: there's just it's just it's a complex, hard film for me,

581
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, the heart of the film, I think the

582
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: better Like if I you know, go over my top

583
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: five movies and ship there are none of them. Are

584
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: I try to find a comedy in them, but there's

585
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: there's none of them. I like Grit, Yeah, you know

586
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: what are They're like Midnight Express, Francis uh one flew

587
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: over the I mean they're brutalite, they're brutal, and they're

588
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: films that stay with you for days, weeks. But Raging Bull.

589
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: Let's talk about like the urban legends I think. I

590
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: mean we've heard other acting urban legends, I guess, but

591
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: nothing more than the DeNiro transformation. I mean, I've heard

592
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: they shut down production for five months so we can

593
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: gain the weight or is it how what happened? That's true?

594
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: Want to do them? I mean, you know, like he

595
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: the fact that they did that, um, like just on

596
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: a budget and technically, like, Okay, we're gonna you're gonna

597
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: get in shape, you're gonna you're gonna get in ridiculous shape,

598
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be a boxer. And then, you know,

599
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: the business today, you wouldn't be able to do that.

600
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: And then we're gonna shut down for five or six

601
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: months and you're gonna eat like a slob and then

602
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna come back and continue shooting. Um. I mean,

603
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: I just don't think that could be done now. But

604
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like as far as a benchmark

605
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: in acting, that's that's the benchmark in acting. And one

606
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: of the things that's so DeNiro and so cool is

607
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: that he didn't He never talks about it, like if

608
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: you see interviews, to write a book, just write a

609
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: book about the development of that character. But he doesn't

610
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: talk about it, which I think is cool because it's

611
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: like he was just doing Like I think it just

612
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: shows that he was just doing it because it was

613
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: a necessary thing. It's like a job requirement in order

614
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: to do this job, to play this part the best way,

615
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: this is what we need to do. I think a

616
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 1: lot of times now when act like what they did,

617
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: the great gain, the weight loss, the smoking cigarettes, it

618
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: all becomes like, you know, um, sort of like the

619
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: selling points of this is why you should go see

620
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: the movie and this is why you should get nominated.

621
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: Where he did it at the highest highest level. And

622
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: he was, as far as I know, he was the

623
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: first person to do it in such an extreme way.

624
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: Obviously other actors have done you know before him, have

625
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: done you know, they've went out of their way, and

626
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: he's not the only one who who's when? But this

627
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: you could see he physically transformed himself. I don't think

628
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: anybody had done it to that degree. And man, that

629
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 1: does speak to He's de Niro's character, his integrity that

630
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: he doesn't tell you about his process at all, Like

631
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: he doesn't show floaded. He just lives it and delivers it.

632
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: Because like even when we did Kate Fear, he did

633
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: crazy Ship behind the scenes, like I only know it

634
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: because first days he told me. Um. One time we

635
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: were in my trailer and I was like, oh, where

636
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: did you just come from? Me? He goes, I just

637
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: came from Bob's trailer. He had a gospel singer and

638
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: they're playing piano and they were speaking in tones. It's like,

639
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: I don't know that ship's going on. And to press

640
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: for the psycho killer he's playing, he speaks in tongue,

641
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: but he I just love his wild ship on the

642
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: that he's doing behind the scenes. And then when you

643
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 1: were working with him, and and and did he bring

644
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: any of the stuff he was doing on his own

645
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: to the set, like this whole thing of method acting

646
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: And you know, like Daniel day Lewis, who's fucking ridiculously good,

647
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: but like you know, like apparently he stays in character,

648
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: like when you were working with him on Cape Fear,

649
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 1: did he staying like when when in between action and cut,

650
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: is he really still um a Max Katie or is

651
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: he Bob DeNiro. That's that was the other thing I learned,

652
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 1: because even as a young actor, I heard all those

653
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: urban legends and you very hear the term message. But

654
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: what he did we mean, No, he just had um.

655
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: He didn't talk a lot, like when we did the

656
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: Auditorium then, but he'd always say hello and goodbye and

657
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: give me a hug. I think he was being like

658
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: really kind because our our relationship, not because he is

659
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: a kind person, but I think our relationship in the

660
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: film was kinged with where he has to make me

661
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: feel safe? You know that the characters so so I

662
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: just remember him like just being really really sweet but

663
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: not talking a lot and and serving his um his

664
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: energy like what he's doing. But yeah, now he wasn't

665
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: dark off when we said cut. That's the thing. He

666
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: was just he was just owning all that, I know,

667
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: wrapping up all that power. And then once the cameras on,

668
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,959
Speaker 1: it's like so much present all there, like that guy

669
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: was that guy that wasn't was that guy? You know?

670
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: Have you ever worked with another actor? I mean, I

671
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: know you were so young when you did Kate Fear,

672
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: but have you ever worked with I mean, well, you've

673
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: worked with so many goddamn actors I mean, but like

674
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to compare. But I mean I don't

675
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: want to ask you that because it's like, obviously you

676
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: worked with fucking Meryl Streep and Woody Harrison and Robert Downey.

677
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many great people. But let me

678
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: let me ask you about this, because because what about

679
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 1: out of all now that it's like you've been working

680
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: for like twentysomething years and and you did Kate Fear

681
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: so young. And what is it that you remember about

682
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: Scorsese that sort of asides the brilliance that's in his head,

683
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: which you know, we can't articulate, what what what What

684
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: is it like working with him and what makes him

685
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: special and what what? What do you think sticks out

686
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: with him as a director when you're being directed by him? Yeah,

687
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: the number one thing is his love of cinema and

688
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: his love of the visual element and his love of

689
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: everything and passion, Like he's electric to be around. And

690
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: that was the one thing compared to all other directors

691
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: as we step on set at like seven in the morning,

692
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: and you've seen interviews with Scorsese where he's talks a

693
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: mile a minute and he's just electric about all things cinema.

694
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: He just radiates um passion and love and and and

695
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: energy about it. So to be directed by someone like that, Oh,

696
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: and and his energy is unwavering from seven am to

697
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: nine at night is the same. And when he would

698
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: shoot like because then Kape, there's this whole montage he's

699
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 1: shooting close ups of like locking the door, shutting the blinds.

700
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: It was like this super intense but they're really, you know,

701
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: not not exciting shots to be doing. But he made

702
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: them exciting and he made everything full of like danger,

703
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: because that's what a film is supposed to be. But yeah, anyway,

704
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: he's that. It was that his sense of adventure and

705
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: his love of of the visual and making everything exciting

706
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: to look at, to look at, and and oh and

707
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: also he loves actors. He jestically and worked different than Deneiro.

708
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: I worked totally different than everybody. I wasn't trained. I

709
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: was all instinct. So he knew how to work with

710
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: and get the best out of every actor. That's that's

711
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: not something all the directors know how to do. That's good.

712
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah, well that's good. Ship Juliette. This is

713
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: the Iron Rapp pre podcast All Raging Bull episode. I

714
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 1: got my man Nick Tatarro here, whose brother John Titaro

715
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: is basically a glorified extra in the film. The film

716
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: was shot at seventeen nine, came out in eighty, so

717
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: he hadn't been there. He was just an actor. He

718
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: was a New York actor. He was he was a

719
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: New York actor who I think it was before if

720
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, seven Yale before he went to Yale,

721
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: so he had been working at the West Beth Theater

722
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: in the Bank Street. Him and Michael Bato Luco, we're

723
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: doing plays down there. Bataluco was doing a play if

724
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: forget the name of it, and he played a referee,

725
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: and I think John was his understudy. So him and

726
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: Mike were they did their own plays. They were doing

727
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: a play down there, and apparently de Niro and Pacino

728
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: we're gonna come one night. And uh my brother told me,

729
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: because I had just seen New York, New York, and

730
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: I said, really, they're both coming. As far as I know,

731
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: they're both coming, Can I come? And he goes, yeah,

732
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: but be cool, be fucking cool, don't don't fool around,

733
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 1: all right, said, I said, all right, I'll be cool.

734
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: He said, because I may not be on tonight, but

735
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: Barto Luco is going on. But I want to be

736
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: sitting near him too. I said, okay. He goes, there's

737
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: four seats roped off. I said, I'm gonna sit next

738
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 1: to the last seat roped off. And I went with

739
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: this blue Hawaiian shirt like he wore Jimmy Doyle, New York,

740
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: New York. It's just a kid, you know. I'm wearing

741
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: the blue Hawaiian shirt. It looked like that, and Pecino

742
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 1: doesn't come, but the Narrow comes with Sis Corman. Sis

743
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: Korman was a big casting director back then. He comes. Man,

744
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: my heart was pounded. I'm a kid. I mean the

745
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: Narrow his heyday with the thing on his cheat the mole.

746
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: Oh shoot, I see him. But my brother said, be

747
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: cool when you like Holy Ship. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking movie

748
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: stars have big heads too, like me and my brother

749
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: talked about the physically had big. A lot of them

750
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: have big heads. Their heads are big. And he sat down.

751
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: But there was four seats, and I think he sat

752
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: like on one seat. There was one empty seat, he said.

753
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: Then she said, and he must have realized if two

754
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: other people come, they're gonna be on each side of

755
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: the four seats. Roped off, so like he sat down

756
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: and then he got up and he sat right next

757
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 1: to me. And I was like, oh ship man, here's

758
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: my chance. But I can't funk up. I have to

759
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: be cool because John told me be cool. So I'm

760
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: sitting there, man, I said, excuse me. I said, do

761
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: you have the time exac the exact question, exact question

762
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: since the mant fifteen, and thank you? I turned around.

763
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: He must have said the funk that kid asked me

764
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: for the time for. I'm wondering why that kid asked

765
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: me the time probably freaked them out. He was like,

766
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: he did a couple of double takes too. He's looking

767
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: at the shirt. Fucking you're looking at the shirt and

768
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: ship like that. And I don't know if he was wondering,

769
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: like the fucking blue you know, he didn't he wore that.

770
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: He wore a shirt that looked like that kid asked

771
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: me for the time. So second half, John told me

772
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: move over. I'm sitting next to him. I said, okay. Um.

773
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: So I guess he was talking to John a little bit.

774
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: And I don't know why they you know, John maybe

775
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: had a Guinea T shirt. Maybe he liked John's look.

776
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: They were casting, they were looking at the time for

777
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: people for Raging Bull. And I think when Bodo Luco

778
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: came out, he laughed, he broke out and left. I

779
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,479
Speaker 1: saw him light up and then even John said, he goes,

780
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: he goes. I think he was even checking you out.

781
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: He asked me who was that kid? That's my brother.

782
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: Is not no problem. He said, buddy, Now you did good,

783
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: you did good. So then John told me, you know

784
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: that they were going to get into audition. He liked

785
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: Bottle Luco and he liked the way John looked audition

786
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: four raging. He told Bodo Luco, he said, you and

787
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: your friend with the Guinea T shirt. This is coming

788
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: from Bodo Loco, he told me. And then he became

789
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: an actor. I was an actor with John and college.

790
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: He was really an actor that started doing props. But

791
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: he was you know, he worked with Woody. He was

792
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: what he's prop mann, what put him. He was great.

793
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: He's ripping up money. It's a wild man by the

794
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 1: Loco was a wild man. But he's a trained actor.

795
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: Trained actor is a real actor. It's just that, you know,

796
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: he was doing you know, he was doing another job

797
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: for a little while. But Michael was a smart guy,

798
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: a little crazy too. So they they went out and

799
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: got the book. They used to research things. They bought

800
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: the book. I guess a lot of people don't know

801
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: that it was based on a book. Yeah, and not

802
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,919
Speaker 1: a great book book. I heard it wasn't even that great.

803
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: I never read it, to be honest. I read Rise Guys,

804
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: but I never read that book. There was no Joey

805
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: character that was the best friend. The best friend was

806
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: Pete Savage, who has a cameo at the end. Petter

807
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: Savage was with Jake's best friend because I met him

808
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: at a college class. I was taking a film course.

809
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: I met Pete Savage, so that Joey character was the

810
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: best friend. But I don't know Joe. There was no

811
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: brother who that brother thing was created Scorsese and de Niro,

812
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: and and was it who wrote the strom he's the

813
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: right Scorsese. I think he didn't means treats yes Martin Martin,

814
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: because yes, yes, yes, Martin Martin. And when they created that,

815
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: so John and Luco got the book and they dressed

816
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: up as fifties guys. They were young, but and the

817
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: older guy like Frank Vincent got kissed. Those guys were

818
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: a little older than John and bout Luco. So obviously

819
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: when they went into like read for Salvey, they probably said,

820
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: well you could, maybe you're too young. They told the

821
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: narrow scores, they told Luco, John and Bataluga went in

822
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: with suits and they were dressed in fifties gear because

823
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: everybody wanted to be a part of this movie, actors,

824
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: young actors, and they said, we have a scene, we

825
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: have a we haven't we have material. And they were like,

826
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: what scene. There's no, there's no scene. Scorsese said, because

827
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: not we We we got the book. They got a book.

828
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: They got the book. They did like a scene from

829
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: the book. They wrote their own scene. They had a

830
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: prop bag. They had a bag with guns in there,

831
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: about Luco said. They said they were gonna maybe, you know,

832
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: if they had to desperately pull out these guns. They

833
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 1: never pulled them out. They had prop guns in the bag.

834
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: By the local tells him very dramatically and again we

835
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: had we had guns, Nick, we had guns in the bag.

836
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: But they never revealed the guns. But Scorsese he was

837
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: gonna like not let them. He liked them. He liked

838
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: to look because you're too young or something. And then

839
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: he goes, no, we we have a scene. We want

840
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: to we want to read our scene for you. They

841
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: were like, what scene. There's no scene, and they go, yeah,

842
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: we got a scene from the book. We we we

843
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: lifted it from the book. So the narrow being an

844
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: actor is let them read, let them do the you know,

845
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: he liked you get a kick out of them. So

846
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: they enjoyed them. So they gave Bottle Luco to this

847
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: part where he actually had a few lines. He was

848
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: at the soda fountain where he goes, they might give

849
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: me a coke and he brings them over prison a coke.

850
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: And then they used John and Boto Luco in the

851
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: scene way he sees Vicky at the dance. They're at

852
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: the table at the dance, and if you'll see if

853
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: you look at the movie, you'll see John Turro, young

854
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: John de Tarro at the shakes DeNiro's and he sitting

855
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: right next to de Niro. Bato Luco has got like

856
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: a toothpick in his mouth, and then Pesci's there, and

857
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 1: then de Niro's childhood friend who's like a wild man,

858
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: who was at the table. He throws somebody out. So

859
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: that was and he didn't even get a credit. John,

860
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: but by Alugo got a sad card from Raging Bull

861
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: and you went to the set. I went down as

862
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 1: a kid with John and then we watched him filming

863
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: the scene where he shakes her hand. We were like

864
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: we were across the street. Remember he came out of

865
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: his trail the first time he meets the first time

866
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: he meets Vickie, because you want to meet my brother,

867
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: He goes, it's gonna be the next champ, right, Jake

868
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: come here? And then you know, he comes about and

869
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: he goes by the gate and he goes, are you

870
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: doing you know where you're from around here? You know

871
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: you like that car? He goes, you want to go

872
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: for a ride? I'm gonna go for a ride. And

873
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 1: so we were like sucking ten feet away. We're watching

874
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: the whole day. Man, look how good he looks when

875
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: him and Scores says, all you can see is them

876
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: talking in in his ear, like whispering in his ear.

877
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: There was a lot of people on the street. There

878
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: was a few people. It's a different time. There's a

879
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: different time. And I just remember I was blown away.

880
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: It was still there for hours, far enough that we

881
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: didn't bother him, you know, because I didn't want to

882
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: get John in trouble or anything. But we were watching

883
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: that whole scene, a beautiful scene, great scene when he

884
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: shakes the hand, you know, and what it what it did?

885
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: You what do you remember about? I remember you said,

886
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: like the way he the way he moved like you,

887
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: I remember you told me, like just the way he looked,

888
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: the way he looked, the way he looked physically, the

889
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: way he walked down the street. You know, like, I

890
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: have a problem with a lot of these guys that

891
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: fight fight is like even the kid increed nothing against

892
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: him and Jake, they're all pumped. They're all steroid out.

893
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean they looked too muscular, like he actually looked

894
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: whether he could fight or not. You bored him as

895
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: a fighter. He had to fight. His body like a

896
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: flat body, but his balance, his step, you could see like, man,

897
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: he's a fucking movie star and he's a great and

898
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: look at him. He's just like poetry. I just had

899
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: that image of him coming out and he looked. It

900
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: looked beautiful. He looked like a fighter. He looked like

901
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: a fucking prize fighter. You're like, wow, you know I've

902
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: met real fighters. I was friends with Boomboo Mancini and

903
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: I did to play when a us to take a

904
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: shirt off, I has to feel his body has to

905
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: go what a body ray. I love fighters bodies. I

906
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: know I'm not homosexual, but their bodies are beautiful, and

907
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, I could feel them up man, I could

908
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: feel their bodies. I love their bodies, their beautiful body.

909
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: I agree. I know exactly what the beautiful bodies so

910
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: so the movie. So why do we love this movie

911
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: so much. Essentially, it's about a guy who is abusive,

912
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: self destructive, um and just a fucking terror. The character

913
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: in this movie, obviously, you know the movie Raging Bull,

914
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: and the character that they created in out of ja

915
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: Clamada is you know, it's not it's not literal to

916
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: his life. I mean, obviously Jake, the real Jake has

917
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: his things. But we're so we're talking about the movie,

918
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: but this movie character. The brilliance of the movie, Mike

919
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: is the execution. The story is not that incredible. He's

920
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: not even the guy that you should care alike. But

921
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: for some reason, I think we see a lot of

922
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: things of ourselves in Jake. You know, I know we're insecure.

923
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: I know, deep down we're jealous. I know you don't

924
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: want nobody fucking your girl or your wife, you know.

925
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: So there are things there that deep down, even though

926
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: people say, oh, he's an animal, he's a fucking brute,

927
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: but deep down there's a lot of things that that

928
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: the relationship of that movie and you almost feel like

929
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: it's very personal. That movie. You almost feel like you're

930
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: looking in a window, you know. But him and Pesci,

931
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: the acting was off the wall. Because it was very

932
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: much like like this, like me and my brother when

933
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 1: we have a conversation, people go, wow, I love watching

934
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: you and your brother too, because we're brothers. We're brothers,

935
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: and you don't see that in a movie, you know,

936
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: like when he does the movie, he's like, you know,

937
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, what's the matter. You're in my hand, wrapping

938
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: around your hand. You know, you know, not too many more,

939
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: you know, you know, he's like, you know, just the

940
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: conversation with that they have the give and go and

941
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: and the brutality and that. You know, he's like, I

942
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: was watching that scene the other night, you know, did

943
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: you did you not? You know, he's not gonna answer that.

944
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: It's a sick question. Ain't sick enough to answers. Ain't

945
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: gonna answer that. You give me all these answers, but

946
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: you don't give me the right one. He was really

947
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: fucking nuts. It was like an acting exercise that characters

948
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: tell me, just tell me. He goes, did you did

949
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: you not? Because I heard some things? What things? I

950
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: heard some things when he said what he says it,

951
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: I heard something. I heard some things. Oh you start

952
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: that worrying ship. Don't start it. Christ Sakes He's like

953
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 1: Sammy funk Vicky. You know, He's like, Jack, don't start

954
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,959
Speaker 1: your ship. And then he says, you included you with them.

955
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 1: You could have said anybody, but you said you and them.

956
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: He goes, you don't know how nuts you are. You

957
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: know that the the insanity of the things that you

958
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: think that you could drive yourself fucking crazy as a man,

959
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: And that's a man. And I think that's what we

960
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: relate to that we relate to many things. But I

961
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: know what you're saying, and it's not something you're proud of. No,

962
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,720
Speaker 1: you're not proud of it. I'm not proud of weakness.

963
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it is the weaks and insecurity, but

964
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: he shows it so openly that as men. This is

965
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: why because I was trying to think of this as

966
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: why am I doing this? Going, I'm doing a screening

967
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: ranging ball I'm doing you know, like, Okay, it was

968
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: a great performance, But like what is it about you

969
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: love about the character? And I think it's not that

970
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: we love like we celebrate him like he's a role,

971
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: but we relate to it the insecurities we look we

972
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: relate to his flaws. And I think as as men

973
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: and and women can say the same thing. And obviously,

974
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: but I think it's a very masculine sort of thing.

975
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: It tapped into with the jealousy and the insecurity and

976
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: the self destructiveness and and and I think you know

977
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: you as somebody like I think you know it's something

978
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: that it's it's a common thing and that a lot

979
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: of people probably wouldn't even admit that they have. But

980
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: I know you and I and me and you we

981
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: could say that we had that. And also the humor

982
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: of it because we meet, because it is some of

983
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: it is funny and some of it is said. But

984
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: the jealousy and you know, the insecurity of that, it

985
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: hits home when you're a man, you know, like and

986
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: the things A lot of things about Raging Bowl that

987
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 1: the truth. I think it's so true that it comes

988
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: back to Jake. There's a lot of truth. You know,

989
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: there's a lot of humor in it, you know, and

990
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: talk about the humor, yeah, you mean, because also for me,

991
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: the first time I saw that movie, I didn't think

992
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: it was funny. But as you keep because you're sort

993
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 1: of knocked on your heels, I'm trying to like, I mean,

994
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: I was a fucking kid. I was I was, I

995
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: was ten. So the first time you're watching it, it's

996
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: so tense, it's beyond the tension that he created, because

997
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: they sort of do they got in the same ballpark

998
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: de Niro, I mean Scorsese during Good Falls in the

999
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: famous My Clown It kind of yeah, but more subtle,

1000
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: more subtle, more subtlety. And then you have to watch

1001
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: that movie over the years, Right, there's a lot of quiet.

1002
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: There's a lot of moments that are funny that you

1003
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: didn't know what funny, you know, even like when he's

1004
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: sitting there in the kitchen with the girl and he goes, um,

1005
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: he goes, you know when you talk about de Niro, Yeah, no, no, no,

1006
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: it was just when his first day when he's sitting there,

1007
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: what he goes It was so far away. Oh, you're

1008
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: like on the other side of the room, right, He's

1009
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: trying to get a closer. He goes, come on here,

1010
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: come over, here, come over, come closer. You know that.

1011
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: He takes her in the bedroom and he goes you like,

1012
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: you like that picture? You like the picture? Yeah, me

1013
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: and my brother phone around. How beautiful you are? Anybody

1014
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: ever tell you how beautiful you are? They tell you

1015
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: all the time. You have that nice neck, kisses the neck.

1016
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: It's funny, it's just something funny. But he sits on

1017
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: the bed, on the bed and he puts his hands

1018
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: awkward to Yeah, well he's very awkward with women anyway.

1019
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 1: But in the character like what does that? But it

1020
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: is it is awkward because you don't see them kiss,

1021
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: you don't see them make out, no sex, nothing. The

1022
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: only thing you see sexually, really sexy, which is will

1023
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 1: will make you want to almost, you know, play with

1024
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: yourself is when she kisses his fucking stomach. That is

1025
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: a turn on. Yeah, then you see nothing. Oh yeah,

1026
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: but you see his face she's going down to that

1027
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: m Yeah, you're like, oh my god. And the way

1028
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 1: she's doing it, he's so Cathy Moriarty, she was great

1029
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: and one of the most beautiful, beautiful and as far

1030
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: as like on screen characters physically knockout. Yeah, she was gorgeous.

1031
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: They found her, PESSI found her. I think she was

1032
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 1: a big bombshell knockout. I saw her too by the pool.

1033
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: I was like, who is that girl? The bombshell? And

1034
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,760
Speaker 1: then when I saw a Pesci too, I was like, Wow,

1035
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: who's this guy? He's fucking great because he was as

1036
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: good as he was in all these other movies. When

1037
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 1: you watch him in that movie, he's like, he's fantastic.

1038
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: He's fantastic in that movie. He's so you know, he's

1039
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: so great because he wasn't like, you know, even doing

1040
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 1: the Joe Pesci stuff, like you know, he's flash. He's

1041
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: great and good fellas, don't kid, he's terrific. But he's

1042
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: so wonderful and in the scenes with what you know,

1043
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: he's just great, you know he is. He's so funny

1044
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: in in his in his way, the way he explains

1045
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: things to his brother. And you win, right, if you win,

1046
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: you win, If you lose, you still win. Just get

1047
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: down to a hundred. Stop beating right, right. He's just

1048
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: great the way he talks to him. You know. Um,

1049
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: it's just it's just his way about it. Um. He

1050
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: was really just wonderful. I just and I saw it too.

1051
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, this guy is good. He said, man,

1052
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: my brother, Yeah, he's great. He's great. Man. And they

1053
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: broke his balls. I better heard about. They tracked them down,

1054
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: they found the narrow to found him in some movie

1055
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: and they they tortured him hurt for like a year. Yeah,

1056
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna, you're gonna get the part. You're

1057
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: gonna get the part. Then in the end they were

1058
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: gonna like almost give it to somebody else. And he

1059
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: went wild. I heard, I heard went wild. He was

1060
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: like he was ready to kill somebody, you know, because

1061
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, he had a hard time

1062
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: breaking at the show brusness. He never got a break,

1063
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: and the Narrow tracked him down. Had a good eye,

1064
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: he must have. The Narrow almost had a great eye.

1065
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: They knew saw him in this movie, you know, a

1066
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 1: joke or Tez crazy guy. You know, Joe Cates was

1067
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: trying to get in. All these guys were probably trying

1068
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: to become that part, and everybody wanted that part. And

1069
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: I was like, who is this guy, Joe Pesci? Where

1070
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: did he come from? Hes fucking great in the end

1071
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: when he's come in, when he's trying to talk to him,

1072
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: come here, come in. He was great. When he doesn't

1073
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: like you know, ah, he goes, you know, because come on,

1074
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: come on, forgive and forget. It's said, it's sad he's

1075
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: kissing him because imost like me. He loved his brother.

1076
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: But then you know he fucking he fucked him, he

1077
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: really hurt him. I mean, you beat your brother up

1078
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: like that, throw him through a glass window, and right,

1079
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: funck is wrong with you? Fuck is wrong with you?

1080
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: Right you know that's your brother, you put him through

1081
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: the window. Is because what jealousy can do. Understand this,

1082
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say it now. Then see this you

1083
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: can say now, no I'm not saying it. Look at that.

1084
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: Say it now. The rage of this he's making it

1085
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: has driven people to do murder. No, it's crazy murder. O. J. Simpson.

1086
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we're not condoning this. Terrible, it's terrible jealousy, Yes,

1087
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: commit O J. Simpson, because when we did, yes, when

1088
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: you did huh? You know, man, you and it's that

1089
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: thing of you, it's yours. It's not yours. It's not yours.

1090
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: It's not yours. It's just a little piece of snap.

1091
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: It's a little snapper that's not yours. You think it's yours,

1092
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: You think you own it. You don't own it. You

1093
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: don't own anything. You came in alone. You're fucking going

1094
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: out alone. It's not coming in the box with you.

1095
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: You like to think it's yours when you're sucking on

1096
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: it or whatever. You know, this is mine, This is

1097
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: mine for good. All right. This is John to Turtle John.

1098
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 1: It's Michael, Michael. How are you. I'm good. How are

1099
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: you doing? What are you doing? A cast for? So

1100
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm doing a podcast, uh, in celebration of the thirty

1101
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: fifth anniversary of Raging Bull? And Um, of course, you know,

1102
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: I know you were in the film and and and

1103
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: and I know that it was like the first thing

1104
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: you would ever the first film you had ever gotten

1105
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,439
Speaker 1: a part in. And I just wanted to just ask

1106
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: you about, like how you wound up in the film

1107
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: and what you remember about, uh, you know, the experience

1108
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: being on the set, and like you know, what compelled

1109
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: you to go so from what I know, so far

1110
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: out of your way, Uh, you know, to to to

1111
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: like audition and you know, keep auditioning for de Niro

1112
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: and Scorsese and just what you remember. It was thirty

1113
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: five years ago, so it's a long time ago. But

1114
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean at the time, you were, you know, a

1115
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: young New York actor and uh, you know, obviously it

1116
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: must have been an exciting set to be on. So

1117
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: I just wanted to you know, hear, uh, what you

1118
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: remember what your thoughts were and and and how the

1119
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: experience was. Well, I was in college in seen, Newports,

1120
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: and I live in the summers. Uh this was I

1121
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: don't know what summer it was because it was a

1122
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: couple of years before they made the movie. Maybe he

1123
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: was nineteen seventy seven, seventy eight eighty and Uh Michael

1124
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: Bluco who became my friends. He was older than me.

1125
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: He introduced me to older people at the West packt

1126
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: uh Theater Center and he was doing the play there,

1127
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: uh pieth of Crime and uh and I he had

1128
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:51,479
Speaker 1: to leave, so I replaced him. And then we heard

1129
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: that de Niro is going to come. You know, I

1130
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: had never met Denio, but he was like a big

1131
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: you know because of green streets and taxi driver, Uh

1132
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 1: gonna come. Then he wanted to come back and replace me,

1133
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 1: which he did do. And then I was at the

1134
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: like kind of at the I was a ticket taker,

1135
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: and I remember that wentible you should come from the

1136
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: neuro comes and I was really and I was. I

1137
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: remember I had like a tight T shirt on and

1138
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: I was I was like twenty I guess yea and

1139
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: uh he uh twenty one and twenty and he came.

1140
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: I made him pay, I remember so, and I sat

1141
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: next to him. Uh, and then he saw the show

1142
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: and he was laughing on Mike and and then I

1143
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: guess uh, he told Sis Corman, who was a casting agent,

1144
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: that he liked Michael and to play and he noticed this.

1145
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 1: I was a guy who was picking the tickets and

1146
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: I was sitting next to him, and uh, he thought,

1147
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: I'd like to bring these two guys in. And so

1148
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: we got this phone call and my who got it?

1149
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: And I guess I got it, got my number. I

1150
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: don't know how I got my number. Uh. And uh

1151
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 1: they Uh, we were supposed to meet them, which is

1152
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: corn and they had no script or anything. I had

1153
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: never gone on a professional audition in my life. I

1154
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: had auditioned for college place right. And we went, we went,

1155
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: and we took pictures. Michael and I. We used to

1156
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 1: buy our clothes in these drift shops in New York.

1157
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: So we had lots of forties and disty clothes and

1158
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: we bought and we took, like resident my pictures of

1159
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: us in forties clothes. And Michael and I decided we

1160
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: were like you know, I said, you know, because my

1161
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: dad was an amateur boxer, and I used to buy

1162
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: fight films from Jim Jacobs from Ringing Magazine, who would

1163
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: up being Mike Tyson's manager. So I had all these

1164
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: books on fighters, and I was a kid because my

1165
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: father loved boxing. And I had eight million meters super

1166
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: eight films of all these different fighters, sugar A, Graciano,

1167
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: Marciano or Lewis. And I read Bijing Boat when I

1168
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: was like ten years old. I read the book. I

1169
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: mean it was an Adulf book, but I read. I

1170
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: used to read all these biography and I said, listen,

1171
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: I had this book. I said, so why don't we

1172
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: We decided to adapt the scene and try to convince

1173
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: them to let us, you know, show them the scene.

1174
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: So we rehearsed the scene. We had like a month

1175
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: in advance, I remember, like, but we did it like

1176
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 1: a play. We adapted it. We did it at the table,

1177
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: we did it boxing, we did it running, we didn't swimming.

1178
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: We did all kinds of ways to work with the

1179
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: teacher on it. It was like it this whole thing.

1180
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: But then the night before was supposed to go in,

1181
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, we were like pupposed they don't let us

1182
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: do it, you know, because they don't have a scrip

1183
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: or anything, and I never got on an audition. So

1184
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: Mike was like, wow, if they'll let us do it,

1185
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: then he was all fired up. He said, you know,

1186
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: we'll hold them hostage, kind of crazy and I was like,

1187
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 1: come on, I can't really do that, and uh uh,

1188
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: you know, but he was like serious. He was saying

1189
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: like no, no, we'll scan him, you know. Well I

1190
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, like career reel over before figs.

1191
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 1: I said. Then we went to them to the meeting,

1192
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: and you know, we were supposed to just say hello,

1193
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: like you know, going like a quick Woody Allen type

1194
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: of you know. And I guess Mike talk to them

1195
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, you had this little scene

1196
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: and they were and then they were laughing at or whatever.

1197
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: And then they brought me in and I think you

1198
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 1: brought me in alone, and Mike went out and I said, yeah,

1199
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I was talking a little bit and

1200
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: they reached aplet have the chine and I think Mike

1201
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 1: was still in there when I came in, That's what

1202
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: he was, and Maudie was like nervous. He said, well,

1203
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 1: we don't have a script, would have anything, and I

1204
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: was like, oh, come on, let's let's about them. Let

1205
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 1: let them do it. They adapted it in the book.

1206
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: So we had to move the table. I remember it

1207
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: was a glass table and all four of us had

1208
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 1: to pick the table up and there was no base,

1209
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: and of course Adi was going to pops pops, you know,

1210
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: and like we had to move the table over, and

1211
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 1: then we had to push the base over. Then we

1212
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 1: did this like on the waterfront scene, like between Jake

1213
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: and his friend like Pete Savage, like, and I guess,

1214
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, we had noted. We did it like for

1215
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: a month straight, you know, so you know, and I

1216
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: think were really kind of like enamored that we were

1217
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: these two stupid kids. Really, uh, and the we're looking

1218
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: at young people because he was supposed to be really

1219
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 1: young in the beginning and get older, but really honestly

1220
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: we were too young because he was said keys older

1221
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: than us. So but they were really kind of enamored

1222
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 1: that we had the hood spreather to do it. And

1223
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: then they kept calling us back for a year and uh,

1224
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: and you know, there were show us to see means

1225
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: and they were these teams that were in the movie.

1226
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 1: But of course they elaborated once they did it and

1227
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: the brother Salvy, the one that Frank Vincent played, And

1228
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: I never went on. And I used to go to

1229
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: Martive apartment and I used to audition. I had I

1230
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 1: had never been another, you know, ever like and then

1231
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 1: we heard about all these guys who were auditioning his

1232
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: famous stories. You heard about Joe Pesci, and then we

1233
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 1: heard about this other guy who was up against Joe Pesci.

1234
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: Joe Rocco was the famous show Roco. And then Joe

1235
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: Roco was going to get me part just but it

1236
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 1: was over a year and I went back to school

1237
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: and then my father got a call one day and

1238
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: they said Mike got a little part of the soda

1239
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: clerk something. But I don't I think before even he

1240
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: got he got a call. And then I got a

1241
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 1: call and they said they were gonna maybe used me.

1242
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: And my father came back at the shower and my

1243
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: father was all excited. You know, I don't really have

1244
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 1: any lines or anything, and uh and then uh, you know,

1245
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: I just see Mike. He need to scene at the

1246
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: pool and he may not mean you may not actually

1247
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: see him in there, but he's a soldia like the

1248
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 1: guy who was the clerk at the pool. Uh as

1249
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: a soda jerk and uh. But I watched The Narrow

1250
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: and kepting Marie and I had never been on you know, Mike.

1251
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 1: His father was a cop man, so I had never

1252
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: really been on a movie set in my life. And

1253
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 1: this guy was like like two of our heroes, because

1254
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: you know that's that we were. You know, it was

1255
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: a different thing he was. It was a big deal,

1256
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: like because it was I saw him in bangage On

1257
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: Slowly and and I saw him in you know, uh

1258
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: Streets and Backs and Driver and I think and they

1259
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: got Father Part two, so you know, besides like Pacino

1260
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: and Dustin Hockman, he was like, you know, you know,

1261
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: big hero and uh uh. And then I remember we

1262
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 1: were in the set and you were sitting there and

1263
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: I remember two days they give me a bad haircut

1264
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: and they put me in the forty thing and the

1265
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: Narrow came in the set and he didn't like the

1266
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: way my collar was and he made them change my

1267
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: shirt and what did you about it? It was wrong.

1268
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: It was two weeks. It wasn't right. And he said

1269
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 1: it's not right and they fixed it, and you know

1270
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: when was it? At the table said Hey Champ, how

1271
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:27,799
Speaker 1: you doing, Hey Jake, how's it going? And we were laughing,

1272
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 1: you know, good one with Joe Pesci and stuff. But

1273
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: I was so nervous. I remember, I was like you know,

1274
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: uh uh, you know, but it was like three days long,

1275
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 1: and they took them free days that they had to

1276
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,719
Speaker 1: shoot this whole big sequence. So I was waiting around

1277
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: a lot. And then later on, you know, I got

1278
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: to know. And when I did, Danny did k see

1279
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:51,839
Speaker 1: he came to see the playbot. And then I auditioned

1280
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:56,640
Speaker 1: for Marty and did Color of Money, and then and

1281
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: then you know, and then I broke with Bob a lot,

1282
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: and I worked a lot of movies that Mrty executive produced,

1283
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: and you know, I almost you know, I was in

1284
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 1: a conversation they the Good Fellas. But then it was like,

1285
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, when they used Joe, you know, because I

1286
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: was you know, he had the whole relationship and Joe

1287
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 1: was great. But you know, I worked a lot. I

1288
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 1: know Bob really well, and I know Marty pretty well too,

1289
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 1: and she's actually helped me on the movie that directed.

1290
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: But it was a really huge like like you know,

1291
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: and then I saw the movie, of course, and we

1292
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: were in the movie and it was like I couldn't

1293
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,679
Speaker 1: believe I was even like in it. And of course

1294
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,600
Speaker 1: in the movie was like I remember we went the

1295
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: first day to seeing it and uh, I don't really

1296
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,839
Speaker 1: for me it but you know, it was at the Sutton.

1297
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: It was at the Shutton, and and then I want

1298
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: a lot of times to see it, and uh uh

1299
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 1: it was, you know, it was obviously the movie you know,

1300
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: stands up you know, for the year they did, you know,

1301
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: the photography and the sound and acting, and but they

1302
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: worked on it few years, you know, and uh I remember,

1303
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 1: you know, hearing all the stories that they found this

1304
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: guy Joe Pesci who had retired area well and stuff.

1305
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 1: But it was still it was really uh uh. And

1306
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: Bob remembers the whole thing, you know, because he never

1307
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 1: forgot that we did that same yea. And so it's

1308
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 1: weird that I've become kind of like friendly with them

1309
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: over the years. And Loud he introduced me to Francesco

1310
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: Rosie when I did The Truth, showed me all his

1311
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 1: films and he's helping me when I did Mac and

1312
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: you know when I showed you know, and he was

1313
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 1: the jury when I would be a human Utter and

1314
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: Cohn and so it's doesn't know all these things, but

1315
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: still I remember that, and uh, it was just it

1316
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 1: was a different time in movies. It was it was

1317
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: almost like the end of an era, right. We didn't

1318
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 1: really know that because it was United Artists and was

1319
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: indeed the Raging Bull and have its gate. They basically

1320
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 1: been a bankrupt I want that company. That that kind

1321
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: of changed the whole movie you know, industry. But it's

1322
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 1: a different time, you know where who said at the

1323
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: end of the golden era of everything? And uh, but

1324
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: who was my first experience. So DeNiro's performance is like

1325
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 1: considered a benchmark in in acting and and and a

1326
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 1: benchmark in method acting and and this is there's no

1327
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: right or wrong way to answer this. I just want

1328
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: to hear you if you could articulate what is method acting.

1329
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 1: I mean, he's studied Stella Asma and I think she

1330
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 1: really helps him, you know, use you know, make things

1331
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: personal and use his imagination and you know, be able

1332
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: to work physically on things. And she's a real student

1333
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: of Stella ass and whatever her technique is, which is

1334
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: documented very well. You know, it's very different than maybe

1335
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 1: the Strassburgs, and they could in all the different then

1336
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 1: Sandy minds, you know, but I think what people were

1337
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 1: all doing where they were delving, you know, in themselves

1338
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: and also your imagination and you know, and I think

1339
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 1: you know, in his particular case and that thing, it's

1340
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 1: very you know, he changed years. You know, he didn't

1341
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: get all pumped up really he trained really years. And

1342
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,600
Speaker 1: I think basically, you know, after he did then he

1343
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: did that big weight gain because he was interested how

1344
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 1: actually blow up that kind of like wounded for every

1345
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: live reactor because after that they were like, well I

1346
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: gotta really gain the way they can't have to fact

1347
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 1: suit and stuff like that, and it changed thingss he

1348
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 1: kind of you know, uh, you just change things that way.

1349
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 1: But I mean I think he was just really doing

1350
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 1: it just because he's saw how athletes was so you know, uh,

1351
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 1: such kind tactic shape and then they blow up some

1352
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 1: much and it was very bad, I know for his health,

1353
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, very bad for his health. And uh, you know,

1354
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 1: but I think I think the acting in that movie

1355
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 1: is really between the characters, not just him alone. I mean,

1356
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 1: Joe is very good as good as him and he

1357
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: goes head to Edward and Kathy is great in the movie.

1358
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: And I really do think you see a lot of

1359
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 1: teamwork in that movie. And I think it's not just

1360
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: like a you know, Toy the Force type of thing

1361
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 1: and uh, but it's just I think there's a lot

1362
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: of like just great dedication to something. Uh and you

1363
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,599
Speaker 1: see that now. But it's it's it's not always other

1364
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 1: piece and that is other piece. The other people it's

1365
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 1: other piece. And I don't think it's like done to

1366
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 1: just be you know, uh flashy and this to that.

1367
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: And I think you know that they had a whole

1368
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: thing going between them, you know, him and Marty and

1369
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 1: and Joe certainly lose it. You know, he's fantastic, you know,

1370
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 1: and movie when you saw him, you were like, who

1371
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: is this guy? And I mean you couldn't do that today,

1372
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 1: you mean, you know, in a way, they were kind

1373
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: of brilliant, like here's a guy who's a known guy

1374
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: playing another character, playing against an unknown actor and actress,

1375
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 1: which makes it look much more believable as that character

1376
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 1: instead of playing against like you know, if Harvey would

1377
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 1: have played it, which I think they probably thought, then

1378
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 1: it would have been like, oh it's Harvey involved again,

1379
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,640
Speaker 1: you know from mean streets. But this you may have

1380
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: seemed much more like Jakes because these other people seem

1381
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 1: so real. And uh, I know it's very hard to

1382
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: do nowadays. That's to do that. You can't really do

1383
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:54,559
Speaker 1: that nowadays. And I just think the nature as it is,

1384
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 1: and that makes the well known person look fresh, you

1385
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 1: the man. And I just think it just reminded me

1386
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 1: the movie You Need. That movie reminds me of going

1387
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:11,040
Speaker 1: to acting class. And I remember I was in the

1388
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 1: study in that of the Jailsman, Uh, Dustin Hoffman and

1389
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:17,600
Speaker 1: Ductin Offin. When he saw the movie, he said that

1390
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: was like going back to class watching a lot of

1391
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,719
Speaker 1: those scenes and and and it was could I study

1392
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: like it was the sant just got about Motco was

1393
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 1: Sandy Meisners. You know, he studied with Sandy and he

1394
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 1: was an assistant and and you know it was like

1395
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 1: when you watch a great scene in the class and

1396
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 1: you were like people were just doing it to do it,

1397
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, not for money, not for same and and

1398
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 1: just you're trying to feel that in the movie, you

1399
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 1: know of when those guys are, you know, they're really

1400
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: working with each other really well. And I know that body,

1401
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, he you know, he was shipped before he

1402
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 1: did it, and you know he killed himself on it.

1403
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 1: You know, I know that he was. She didn't want

1404
01:15:57,520 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: to finish ever editing the movie. He had like they

1405
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 1: pulling away from him at the last minute, you know,

1406
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: to get it in the theater. He was still fudging

1407
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 1: with his one of the loons or something. Uh. But

1408
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: you know it's they were. They were definitely trying to

1409
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 1: push it. So people didn't do a lot of interviews

1410
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 1: in those days, so you didn't really know who the

1411
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 1: people were, and it made you kind of go with

1412
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 1: it more right. They didn't. They didn't talk about it

1413
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,599
Speaker 1: very much. John, Why I don't want to keep you.

1414
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: I I appreciate it. You know, you're you're I mean,

1415
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: you know I always tell you this. You're my guy.

1416
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,640
Speaker 1: I just have so much respect for you. So I

1417
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: appreciate you doing this. Uh, my pleasure and uh and

1418
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:43,439
Speaker 1: and and hopefully hopefully I'll see you soon John, and

1419
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 1: enjoy the holiday. All right. But since John, thank you

1420
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 1: so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. My pleasure. Okay,

1421
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 1: I to hearing your voice, like, I'll talk to you

1422
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: soon John, yourself, Okay, great sneakers. It's the first sneaker

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Speaker 1: dot com. All right. This is the I M. Wrapp

1439
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 1: Poor podcast All Raging Bowl episode. And somebody who I

1440
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 1: just a lot of the people that I'm inter youing,

1441
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: I just intuitively know that they love Raging Both sou

1442
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: one of the funniest, uh sort of underrated, underappreciated people

1443
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: who Uh, I'm a fan of his, Jim Brewer, and

1444
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: I've always loved all his stuff and all his impressions.

1445
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: And he does the best Joe Pesci impression. I've never

1446
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 1: heard him actually speak on Raging Bowl. But again, I

1447
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 1: just I'm pretty sure that he's into it, and get

1448
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 1: him and get his impression of the film, what it

1449
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 1: means to him, what he likes about it, what he

1450
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 1: doesn't like about it, and uh, this, that and the

1451
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 1: other thing. So we're calling him live right now, comedian actor,

1452
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:49,360
Speaker 1: funny motherfucker Jim Brewer. All right, this is the Iron

1453
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 1: Wrap por podcast Speak of the Jim Brewer um and

1454
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 1: and and I've never actually I've never actually spoken to

1455
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:01,679
Speaker 1: you about Raging Bowl. But I just suitively guest when

1456
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: I when I was decided to do this this episode,

1457
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: that you would be somebody who loves the movie and

1458
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 1: and and then you know, checking with you, I'm right.

1459
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 1: So what is it about the movie? Uh that that

1460
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 1: you you know you said to me that you said

1461
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 1: it's it's one of your favorite movies, if not your favorite.

1462
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 1: We talked to me about the movie. I've talked enough, Jim.

1463
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure you've got much much, a lot

1464
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: of things to say about about Regeonable, So talk to

1465
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 1: me about it and what it means to you and

1466
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 1: what what what's exciting about it, what's funny about it,

1467
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:32,360
Speaker 1: and everything in between. There were so many things that

1468
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: resonated with me. I was a kid and my I

1469
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 1: had an Italian um nanny. So the DeNiro role was

1470
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 1: very much like the guy that I called Grandpa, who

1471
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 1: at the end of that relationship actually got violent with

1472
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 1: uh with with the with their at home with my nanny,

1473
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: so that ended really bad. I remember being a kid,

1474
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: so they were in where I grew up. You know,

1475
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 1: even though it was a long island people don't think

1476
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: of it, it was a lot of that. It was

1477
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 1: a lot of that. So that was the first thing

1478
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 1: that really and I would I would find myself laughing

1479
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: at de Niro because when when something so real life,

1480
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 1: I I just I instantly crack I don't know why,

1481
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: I just cracked up. To me, it was an impression

1482
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 1: on everyone that I grew up with around me. It

1483
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 1: was it was it was brilliant and I remember going

1484
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 1: to school because I was too kind of too young

1485
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:41,679
Speaker 1: to see the movie. And I remember and I told

1486
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 1: my dad to my dad wasn't a big movie guy.

1487
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:48,280
Speaker 1: I said, Dad, you gotta watch this movie. Mom's not

1488
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 1: gonna like it, but you gotta watch this movie. And

1489
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,679
Speaker 1: that became my altar. And that movie made me start

1490
01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:01,479
Speaker 1: watching de Niro and PESHI that to this day, I

1491
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:06,720
Speaker 1: still say those are the two best acting roles that

1492
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:10,840
Speaker 1: have ever resonated with me, probably in history. I mean,

1493
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 1: Good Fellas is great, and so many other movies and Nicholas,

1494
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:19,839
Speaker 1: but but but so many little scenes in that movie

1495
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 1: still stick out in my head, almost almost bigger than

1496
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 1: when the first time I saw Star Wars. So many scenes,

1497
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,680
Speaker 1: the scene with the you want you steak, you might

1498
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:34,799
Speaker 1: bring it over? You want you stick? Just a slow

1499
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:39,679
Speaker 1: rising boiling in him, bring get over? How long gotta wait?

1500
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: How long you want your fucking steak over? And then

1501
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:49,360
Speaker 1: Petty comes always like hey, she's yelling in the background, aggivation.

1502
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: I me, yeah, I'm lowing. Um you get this, aggivation

1503
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 1: you can't do this, you can't do this, and and

1504
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,960
Speaker 1: the and the scene of hit me in the face,

1505
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:00,240
Speaker 1: what the fund as well and I'm not gonna she

1506
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: can face and the punching and the face scene and

1507
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 1: Scorsesey just a little scene when um, they're waiting for

1508
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 1: the one fight and they're sitting in the room and he's, oh,

1509
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 1: it's right, it's right before tom and Tommy and all

1510
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 1: of them leave, and he sees right before that was

1511
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 1: one pet. She's ordering the food. Yeah, he saw him.

1512
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,400
Speaker 1: You know, we want what you want to eat. But

1513
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 1: that scene, he just it's so simple, but it's just captivating.

1514
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 1: The years, just prancing like a tiger. There's so many

1515
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 1: things going on with him. It was and even to

1516
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 1: this day. I watched it again the other night. I

1517
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sitting there with my wife and she goes, um,

1518
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 1: you know she really like that. I mean, do you

1519
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:57,679
Speaker 1: do I go, what was he really cheating? I go, well,

1520
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 1: that's I think that's the brilliant. So this scorceging makes

1521
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:05,479
Speaker 1: you feel what the nero feeling. And you know she

1522
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 1: did hit her no, but there's so much ship going on.

1523
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 1: His pride was taken away, and Pesci just is his

1524
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 1: brother and he's looking at it after him, but he's

1525
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 1: also knows to get to the championship, he's got to

1526
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 1: sell his soul as Oh my god, there's a lot

1527
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 1: of ship in that movie. I get. I can talk

1528
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:27,479
Speaker 1: about that movie for hours and hours and hours and

1529
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:31,400
Speaker 1: I and I understand all views when I watched that movie.

1530
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 1: Even you feel bad for the scene when he's when

1531
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 1: he breaks down in the jail cell. He's just finally

1532
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 1: all came down. You're so stober, so stober. So what

1533
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 1: do you think it is that that? You know, because

1534
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 1: I think men and women look at this movie differently,

1535
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and and for some for

1536
01:23:54,920 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 1: a character to be an abusive, self destructive mother fucker,

1537
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 1: yet I'm doing a podcast about it. You obviously feel

1538
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 1: is enthusiastic about the movie and as the character. Uh,

1539
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like we're glorifying it. But what

1540
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 1: do you think it is about men that were relating

1541
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: to somebody? That's so you know, on paper, you'd be like,

1542
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: why would you want to watch this movie? Why are

1543
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 1: you even discussing this movie? This guy's a fucking scumbag.

1544
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 1: He beats his wife, Like, what do you think it is?

1545
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 1: You know, it's because it's obviously it's not like we're

1546
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 1: like thinking like you know, this is the lone Ranger.

1547
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,240
Speaker 1: But but we're sitting here talking about it and and

1548
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: and obviously there's humors. So what do you think it

1549
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 1: is about men specifically? Because you're a man, I'm a man,

1550
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:39,599
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to get woman's point of view wanted.

1551
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 1: But what do you think it is about men that

1552
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: we relate to this character and feel some sort of compassion.

1553
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:47,719
Speaker 1: It's a foe blown. I think it's a respect thing.

1554
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 1: All a man wants in life is to know he's

1555
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 1: he's respected and that he's um. It's like when I'm

1556
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: gone on the road and I come back appreciated, appreciated

1557
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 1: and respected. Those are the two biggest things that are

1558
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 1: very needy for a man. That's where fulfit that that's

1559
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: how a man is fulfilled. He feels respected. Um. And

1560
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 1: and when you watch that movie, they need ray j

1561
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 1: Jacolmata is a fighter, that's all he knows. He's just

1562
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 1: a part of him is a dumb ox. But he's

1563
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 1: not really a dumbox. He's just he's just trying to

1564
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,920
Speaker 1: get by and that's that's what he is. That's what

1565
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 1: he but in his small world. And at the end

1566
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 1: they do they do disrespect him. They do ship behind

1567
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 1: his back, they do make him do things that that

1568
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, if it's like me or you, and they're like, listen,

1569
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 1: you want to beat Michael, you want to play the

1570
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:01,040
Speaker 1: big role. We gotta play this role. I don't want

1571
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 1: to play that role. Yeah, well you want to put

1572
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 1: you want to start with this guy. You gotta play

1573
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 1: this role. And it's so you feel like a whore,

1574
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: you feel humiliated, you feel degraded. It's embarrassing the people

1575
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: around you, like, why would you do something like that?

1576
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 1: It's it's just a horrible fear. I've done it. I've

1577
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 1: done it multiple times. It's the most disturbing, disgusting feeling.

1578
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 1: So when the people involved now or technically your wife,

1579
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:38,000
Speaker 1: you're your brother, and the tightest people that he trust

1580
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:41,639
Speaker 1: the most, you know, you still who's that You're alone,

1581
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 1: You're you. You can see where the frustrationiz and where

1582
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:48,840
Speaker 1: he started losing his mind, and you know they're controlling

1583
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: him and Tommy's control. It's a it's not a good

1584
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 1: place to be in life. And I felt his fury,

1585
01:26:55,800 --> 01:27:01,080
Speaker 1: I felt his anger. I wouldn't never I probably would

1586
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:03,040
Speaker 1: have never have done what he did because that's just

1587
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 1: not me. But I felt I felt all of it,

1588
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 1: even when he felt horrible after beating his ship out

1589
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 1: of his brother. That's one of the most unbelievable seeds,

1590
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 1: that she's chasing him down the straits. You suck. You know,

1591
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:26,360
Speaker 1: he walks in and bang bang, it's fun of the

1592
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 1: kids and he's pouncing them and oh my god. But

1593
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:32,640
Speaker 1: you feel it. You feel it when he goes that

1594
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:37,440
Speaker 1: scene right before that goes down to me, that describes

1595
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:41,040
Speaker 1: the whole feeling of his world coming down when he

1596
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 1: goes what happened down in the copa, Yeah, well I

1597
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:48,599
Speaker 1: didn't tell you what happened. He just fucking lied to him.

1598
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:50,280
Speaker 1: But I didn't tell you. It wasn't often and he

1599
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 1: saw you. He mouthed off. I slapped around, that was

1600
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 1: it and fucking and he showed Tommy's over and he knows.

1601
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 1: He's just looking at him and he knows and yours

1602
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: the viewer though. He goes, you have to do with Vicky? No,

1603
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: I told I told you. Don't you think I would

1604
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 1: have told you if it had something to do with Vicky?

1605
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 1: It was spotted him and I slammed around that you're

1606
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 1: sucking h thing you know, Joey, I'm asking you a

1607
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 1: lot of questions you're not answering. I'm gonna ask you again,

1608
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 1: did you what did you not? I'm not gonna answer you.

1609
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 1: That's a sick question. You're sick, fucking I ain't that's

1610
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,720
Speaker 1: sick on me? Ask you? You fuck my wife? Oh?

1611
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 1: Whoa you? Will you get your fucking balls? Being up

1612
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:34,559
Speaker 1: to ask me? I'm your brother, Do you get your

1613
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:37,360
Speaker 1: fucking balls? Asked Nick, question, I'm gonna ask you again,

1614
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 1: did you what did you not? And then then he goes,

1615
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 1: that's a sick question. You're sick, fucking I ain't that

1616
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:48,040
Speaker 1: sicking I ask you. You know I feel bad for you.

1617
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:50,720
Speaker 1: You know that you're sucking. I feel bad. You get help.

1618
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 1: You should worry about your weight. You stock fucking you

1619
01:28:52,920 --> 01:29:05,160
Speaker 1: don't have problems upstairs and taking on me. Yeah. You

1620
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 1: know what's crazy about that movie is that I like

1621
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 1: I saw it young too. I saw at ten, so

1622
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going on, but I responded

1623
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:17,360
Speaker 1: at an emotional level, and I don't think even adult

1624
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 1: and an adult at the time, I couldn't imagine an

1625
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:24,800
Speaker 1: adult the first viewing um taking that in as funny,

1626
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:27,320
Speaker 1: but after you watch it, you know, I don't know

1627
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:29,759
Speaker 1: how many times I started to realize that it was funny.

1628
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:32,040
Speaker 1: But you know, one of the things that keeps coming

1629
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:34,040
Speaker 1: up is the humor of the movie. And I think

1630
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:36,759
Speaker 1: you have to sort of be decentitized from the violence

1631
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 1: of it, and then you keep watching and then because

1632
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:42,559
Speaker 1: the tension is so palpable and his and I think

1633
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: the humor comes from when somebody's so frustrated and and

1634
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:52,000
Speaker 1: and and and so overly like I mean, there he's

1635
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 1: so dead faced, like if this was a comedy, like

1636
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 1: this is the best, the straightest, like jac is totally straight,

1637
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 1: like he's the straightest of the straight man ever in

1638
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,439
Speaker 1: terms of comedy, and all this ship going around, Like

1639
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:07,040
Speaker 1: when you're watching it, he's so fucking angry that it

1640
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:12,640
Speaker 1: becomes funny, so fucking funny. Even Petci with his angles

1641
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 1: that scorn says you had and Petci was always like

1642
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 1: from above, so you always it never was from like

1643
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:21,599
Speaker 1: id I a lot of times you would teach from

1644
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 1: above and he would capture his fucking look, his twisted looking.

1645
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 1: You can see everything going on in his fucking head.

1646
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:31,840
Speaker 1: That one seemed he goes, um, what's so hard he

1647
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 1: give me a face, he touched my face. They flap

1648
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 1: him and then he falls down on the floor. And

1649
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:39,800
Speaker 1: that's all fucking hard. You slow down and then you

1650
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:42,400
Speaker 1: got what you want. Then you fucking need going to book.

1651
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 1: What's so hard about that bitch is his fucking face.

1652
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 1: But what are you where? You were saying, Michael, I'm

1653
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:50,720
Speaker 1: sitting there in the bed the other day with my

1654
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:53,759
Speaker 1: wife and that scene with the Holt when he's fat

1655
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 1: and he's trying to fix the TV, and there was

1656
01:30:57,160 --> 01:31:02,560
Speaker 1: a brilliant there's such brilliant because he's breathing heavy. I was,

1657
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: I was fucking howling. I was belly laughing, and my

1658
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:10,720
Speaker 1: wife's going, what what are you laughing at? It could

1659
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:15,400
Speaker 1: be he's fucking funny fat. He sticks in the TV

1660
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 1: his heads and he's just looking at him. He's dying

1661
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:23,640
Speaker 1: to ask him to quick fucking funny miss so well,

1662
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm not a punching chew in the sandwich. I it's

1663
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:32,639
Speaker 1: so even when he's wearing it, even when he's cocky

1664
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:34,960
Speaker 1: and he's threats a certain way and he's walking down

1665
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 1: the street and he and he pulls his belt but

1666
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:40,599
Speaker 1: he holds onto his belt buckle. Oh, my god. I'm

1667
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 1: I'm howling with laughter. It's so funny. I guess because

1668
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:47,600
Speaker 1: I knew that guy. I hear him, I hear you,

1669
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,320
Speaker 1: I hear you. Well, this is good ship, Jim. I.

1670
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:53,439
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, and um, you know, I don't want

1671
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:55,880
Speaker 1: to take I mean I literally could talk to you

1672
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 1: because you're you're as crazy about this movie as me,

1673
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of us out um um, so

1674
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:03,120
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to. I don't want to

1675
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,639
Speaker 1: take up too much of your time. I appreciate it. Well,

1676
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,800
Speaker 1: thank you, and I gotta I gotta tell you you're

1677
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:11,559
Speaker 1: the You're one of the only few that I've heard

1678
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 1: the word comedy come out as to me, it's one

1679
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:18,120
Speaker 1: of the funniest movies. I mean, it's fucking brilliant. An

1680
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 1: emotional roller girls there, but there's some scenes in there

1681
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:24,720
Speaker 1: that make me barely laugh bally laugh. And I'm I'm

1682
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: glad you're just as nuts as I am. And all

1683
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:29,120
Speaker 1: the best game and thanks for asking me to do

1684
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:32,920
Speaker 1: this man, big fan, big props, and m Marry Chris

1685
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:36,640
Speaker 1: is Happy New Year, and unless it's not dated, just

1686
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:40,679
Speaker 1: have a game. He's going you fucking might you? Hello?

1687
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 1: You listen to me. I hear you breathing. Larry, Who's

1688
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:52,839
Speaker 1: an animal? Larry, you animal animal? Your fucking of animal?

1689
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:56,679
Speaker 1: Shut up you if filthy animals. I'm gonna take that dog.

1690
01:32:56,760 --> 01:33:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill it him. Larry's Adam Carolla. It's a

1691
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 1: three anniversary of Raging Bull, the film. Yeah, so so,

1692
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 1: first of all, I want to talk to you about, like,

1693
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:18,479
Speaker 1: what do you think I mean, as a performer, as

1694
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:21,720
Speaker 1: an actor, as an admirer of film, as now a

1695
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:24,960
Speaker 1: filmmaker yourself, talk to me about Raging Bull in terms

1696
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 1: of the context, you know, like just to just to

1697
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 1: sort of preface it. Uh, you know, it was. It

1698
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 1: was voted the best film of the eighties. Um, as

1699
01:33:33,439 --> 01:33:36,759
Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, it was like a benchmark of acting.

1700
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:40,800
Speaker 1: I don't think that de Niro's performance has ever been duplicated,

1701
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:43,760
Speaker 1: because I don't think another production will allow an actor

1702
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:46,560
Speaker 1: to start one way, shut down for six months, and

1703
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 1: then gain weight within the same movie, which is what

1704
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:51,920
Speaker 1: they did for Raging Bull. Um so too. I mean,

1705
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:53,760
Speaker 1: you know, you know, it's funny. I was watching that

1706
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,360
Speaker 1: movie the other day. I love that movie. I love

1707
01:33:56,439 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 1: everything about that movie. I love the comedy in it.

1708
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,599
Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk to talk about that well.

1709
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:06,760
Speaker 1: I mean, Pesci and de Niro are great, and they

1710
01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:10,240
Speaker 1: have these great scenes that are born from all this tension.

1711
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 1: And you know, like the scene where he's telling him

1712
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:15,880
Speaker 1: to punch him, and he's like, I'm not gonna punch you.

1713
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 1: You're my brother. Why would I punch it? And then

1714
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:19,559
Speaker 1: by the end of the scene he's trying to kill him.

1715
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 1: That's a great comedy, but it is done completely dry.

1716
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:29,920
Speaker 1: Nobody's winking at the camera, there's no smiling going on.

1717
01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 1: It's like the purest form of comedy. It's actual. It's

1718
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 1: an actual thing that's taking place, which is like a

1719
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: really pure comedy concept, which is very beginning of the

1720
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 1: scene is I would never do this thing to you.

1721
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:48,479
Speaker 1: You're my brother. I wouldn't even do it to a stranger,

1722
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:50,840
Speaker 1: much less my own brother. And then by the end

1723
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:53,640
Speaker 1: of the scene, I'm trying to kill you, and it

1724
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:58,040
Speaker 1: comedically is a very strong choice. So I love that.

1725
01:34:58,360 --> 01:35:01,640
Speaker 1: I love all the comedy in the movie that you

1726
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:05,120
Speaker 1: may not even get or understand. I love when Denia

1727
01:35:05,200 --> 01:35:07,000
Speaker 1: tells his wife to get out of get out of

1728
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:09,760
Speaker 1: the room, and then and then Pesci looks at his

1729
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:11,559
Speaker 1: wife and goes, yeah, what are you looking at? Get

1730
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:13,040
Speaker 1: out of here, and like you can tell he's just

1731
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:16,280
Speaker 1: kind of doing with his big brother. Just did lots

1732
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:20,559
Speaker 1: of good subtle stuff. I was thinking about that movie

1733
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 1: because it was on the other day, and I was

1734
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:28,200
Speaker 1: like realizing that, you know, everyone's like, well, he had

1735
01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:29,960
Speaker 1: to get into shape and they shot all that ship,

1736
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:33,240
Speaker 1: and then later then he got fat and he shot

1737
01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:36,439
Speaker 1: all that ship. And then I was picturing the scene

1738
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:40,479
Speaker 1: where he had the Gennero fight coming up, and he

1739
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:42,599
Speaker 1: was calling him up, stop beating so much. Your fat

1740
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:44,720
Speaker 1: fuck you know, yeah, you gotta you gotta make weight,

1741
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 1: and he does this thing where he's like, look, you

1742
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 1: make weight. You beat the crap out of this guy.

1743
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:52,040
Speaker 1: You don't make weight, and all these other guys have

1744
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:54,120
Speaker 1: been ducking. You're gonna have to come out, but it

1745
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 1: doesn't hurt your reputation. If you win, you still win, right, right,

1746
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:02,920
Speaker 1: Just get down to a hundred pounds fat, Stop being

1747
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:05,560
Speaker 1: right And I was sick of looking at it, and

1748
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:08,719
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, he's he's a hundred and seventy

1749
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:13,439
Speaker 1: five pounds. Here did they film this in between that?

1750
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 1: They go get this scene in between the in shape

1751
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:18,840
Speaker 1: scenes and on the way up. They must have got

1752
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:21,160
Speaker 1: it when he was on the way up, what you mean,

1753
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:23,880
Speaker 1: I want to want to go down again. He started

1754
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:26,280
Speaker 1: obviously at the best shape, and I know what you mean,

1755
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:29,880
Speaker 1: because throughout the film he starts gaining a little bit

1756
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:32,479
Speaker 1: of weight. He's out of shape, and then later on

1757
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:35,560
Speaker 1: he's you know, a fat slop and and all of

1758
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:38,479
Speaker 1: it's without a fat suit, and and and and you know,

1759
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:40,680
Speaker 1: it's like I don't think like any production will ever

1760
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 1: like that will never be achieved again. And at the time,

1761
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:45,560
Speaker 1: you know, it's still like, you know, it was like

1762
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:47,800
Speaker 1: as far as like an actor, like you're like, funk man,

1763
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a fucking performance, Like you know, you

1764
01:36:50,439 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 1: get to do all these things, you get to explore,

1765
01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, you're you know, all these these different emotions.

1766
01:36:55,120 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 1: And then physically actually has the have the time to

1767
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:02,280
Speaker 1: physically change to start two extremes to start it really

1768
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:04,839
Speaker 1: fit in shape and like you know, become a boxer

1769
01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 1: and then at the end become this fat fuck with

1770
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,760
Speaker 1: no fat suit. And it's just like it's just sort

1771
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 1: of a benchmark, you know what I mean. And then

1772
01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:18,240
Speaker 1: the direction and everything everything, everything, you know, it was

1773
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:23,600
Speaker 1: really it was too much too soon for us to

1774
01:37:23,800 --> 01:37:30,479
Speaker 1: fully appreciate and fully absorbed. It was like you were

1775
01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:34,960
Speaker 1: nine year old watching Fantasia or something and you just

1776
01:37:35,160 --> 01:37:38,360
Speaker 1: couldn't appreciate the artistry in it because we were like

1777
01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:43,719
Speaker 1: too immature, too much. You know. It's like it's literally

1778
01:37:43,800 --> 01:37:51,240
Speaker 1: a movie that in we couldn't fully absorbed. I mean

1779
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 1: we you know, people are like, oh, yeah, that's a

1780
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:57,120
Speaker 1: good movie. But you know, Mannequin is pretty good movie too, right.

1781
01:37:57,240 --> 01:37:59,320
Speaker 1: It's like, no, no, no, this is not i mean,

1782
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:02,519
Speaker 1: on the same lan it is any other movie that's

1783
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 1: really even come before it, and we couldn't. We could.

1784
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 1: Were almost felt like like it's like you're you're a

1785
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:14,600
Speaker 1: dog and you tell the dog don't you like the

1786
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:17,479
Speaker 1: Kobe beef? And the dog goes no, I like the

1787
01:38:17,720 --> 01:38:19,719
Speaker 1: I like the dog food because it's got like guts

1788
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,240
Speaker 1: and she had ship and you're like, but eat the Kobe.

1789
01:38:22,479 --> 01:38:26,200
Speaker 1: That's that's it. Can't appreciate it. It's like it's Palette's

1790
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:31,040
Speaker 1: not good enough. It actually thinks that the burger patty

1791
01:38:31,160 --> 01:38:34,280
Speaker 1: that you just slid out of your uh burger king

1792
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:37,400
Speaker 1: bun is better than the Kobe Beef because it's not

1793
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:41,680
Speaker 1: good enough. We weren't good enough in to really absorb

1794
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 1: that movie. Dying rapp por podcast is sponsored by the

1795
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:50,720
Speaker 1: American Giant clothing company. American Giant dot com. Go on

1796
01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:56,560
Speaker 1: their sweatshirts rough, well made, comfortable, breathable, warm in the

1797
01:38:56,640 --> 01:38:59,799
Speaker 1: in the winter. You need yourself a nice American Giants

1798
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:02,960
Speaker 1: up up putty or a pull over hoodie American Giant.

1799
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:05,080
Speaker 1: Go to American Giants dot com check out the T

1800
01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:10,560
Speaker 1: shirts and sweatshirts the sweatpants American Giant. All right, this

1801
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:16,680
Speaker 1: is the I am Rappaport All Raging Bull Podcast, and

1802
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 1: I'm calling up the dudes from the Dirty Sports Podcast

1803
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:26,400
Speaker 1: young bulls of the podcast world, and see what they

1804
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:29,760
Speaker 1: have to say about the damn thing. Hello, Hey, this

1805
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:32,640
Speaker 1: is Michael Rappaport. How you doing good? How are you?

1806
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:35,160
Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm good. How's it going? Is this is it?

1807
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:37,840
Speaker 1: Who is this? This is Joe Pray Now and I

1808
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:40,160
Speaker 1: got Andy next to me. We're doing an All Raging

1809
01:39:40,240 --> 01:39:44,040
Speaker 1: Bull podcast. I've had some really special people speak on

1810
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:46,920
Speaker 1: the film. Tell me whatever you're thinking, whatever, whatever you love,

1811
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:50,479
Speaker 1: whatever you you know, passionate about the movie. Well, for me,

1812
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:53,080
Speaker 1: you know, being uh, being a guy from New York

1813
01:39:53,439 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 1: and my dad and Italian from the Bronx. When the

1814
01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:58,720
Speaker 1: first time I ever watched Raging Bull, I was like,

1815
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:02,960
Speaker 1: the is how people are there? Like it was so

1816
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:06,719
Speaker 1: true to life, that's how everybody talks. It was so real.

1817
01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:09,439
Speaker 1: The first time I ever watched it, I was like

1818
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:13,400
Speaker 1: I was immediately engulfed in the story from you know,

1819
01:40:13,479 --> 01:40:15,799
Speaker 1: the first scene where I was like, yeah, I'm on board,

1820
01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:20,600
Speaker 1: this is this is what his land us so and

1821
01:40:20,720 --> 01:40:23,559
Speaker 1: then obviously it's just such a great movie. I think,

1822
01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:27,920
Speaker 1: you know, probably in my opinion, de Niro's best role

1823
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:31,400
Speaker 1: of all time, which is really saying something right right right.

1824
01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:33,559
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that I've been coming

1825
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:37,240
Speaker 1: across doing his podcast interviewing different people is that the movie,

1826
01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:39,760
Speaker 1: you know, the way men look at the movie and

1827
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 1: the way women look at the movie is differently, you know, um,

1828
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:47,960
Speaker 1: because obviously it's such a macho film. You know, it's

1829
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:50,599
Speaker 1: so it's you know, and it's not like Jake Lamata

1830
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:55,439
Speaker 1: in Raging Bull is the lone ranger that macho. You know.

1831
01:40:55,720 --> 01:40:58,880
Speaker 1: It resonated with me so well because I can relate,

1832
01:40:59,080 --> 01:41:03,080
Speaker 1: especially all those scenes with de Niro and Teshi and

1833
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:06,680
Speaker 1: the ball busting. I mean, my brothers. You know, I'm

1834
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:08,800
Speaker 1: thirty four now, I would have brothers forty one. I mean,

1835
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 1: we go home and it's like we're kids again. It's

1836
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:15,720
Speaker 1: the same ship. And to me, you know, that's a

1837
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:19,200
Speaker 1: huge sticking point of the movie because those are real conversations.

1838
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:22,280
Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing there's nothing stake about that and

1839
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:26,080
Speaker 1: the interaction and the fighting and you know, I mean,

1840
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:28,240
Speaker 1: I'll go when I go back to Ohio for Christmas,

1841
01:41:28,280 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the same thing where it's gonna get

1842
01:41:30,720 --> 01:41:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, it might get physical. I mean that that's

1843
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 1: how it is. And what about the boxing of it all,

1844
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, like Jake La Maatta. You know,

1845
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:42,479
Speaker 1: obviously I think the probably the truest thing about the film,

1846
01:41:43,120 --> 01:41:44,479
Speaker 1: not to say that it's not true, I mean, but

1847
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 1: obviously they elaborated on things, and they combined characters and

1848
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:49,360
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But like, you know, as far as

1849
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:52,720
Speaker 1: like boxing and and uh, you know where boxing is

1850
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:56,800
Speaker 1: today and what boxing meant to culturally back then. You know,

1851
01:41:56,920 --> 01:41:59,479
Speaker 1: in in in the forties and fifties, sixties, seventies, even

1852
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:02,000
Speaker 1: into the these you know, boxing was you know, was

1853
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:05,680
Speaker 1: was a primary sport. It was it was like a

1854
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:09,040
Speaker 1: mainstream sport. Now it's almost you know, it's behind the UFC,

1855
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 1: and I feel like it's depleting. But like talk about

1856
01:42:12,360 --> 01:42:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, like boxing and because you guys are sports

1857
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:16,840
Speaker 1: dudes and stuff like that, so you know, like speak

1858
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:19,920
Speaker 1: on boxing and and and Jake Lamatta and and and

1859
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:21,920
Speaker 1: that that whole So, I mean I never saw him fight.

1860
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm forty. My father saw him fight when he was

1861
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:25,320
Speaker 1: a kid. He went to the garden. He saw him

1862
01:42:25,640 --> 01:42:28,880
Speaker 1: fight Sugary robinson Um. But like, you know, like the

1863
01:42:29,280 --> 01:42:31,320
Speaker 1: whole boxing aspect of it to me, because to me,

1864
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:34,920
Speaker 1: you know, the boxing scenes are the most stylized and

1865
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, like I don't think any films ever, you know,

1866
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:40,680
Speaker 1: really depicted a boxing match because it's so hard to

1867
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:43,080
Speaker 1: do because the actors can't really get punched in the face.

1868
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:46,519
Speaker 1: But you felt like you're in the ring with him,

1869
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:49,760
Speaker 1: and you felt like you're feeling all. Although it's stylized

1870
01:42:49,760 --> 01:42:51,920
Speaker 1: and it all, it doesn't look real at all. It

1871
01:42:52,120 --> 01:42:54,759
Speaker 1: feels real, Like the feeling you get from those boxing

1872
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:57,519
Speaker 1: scenes is real, but it doesn't look real, you know

1873
01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:00,960
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, and you know the last

1874
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:04,320
Speaker 1: the last fight he had with sugar Ay is like

1875
01:43:04,920 --> 01:43:08,720
Speaker 1: the blood is so over top where you're watching the

1876
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 1: crowd react like oh my god, oh my god, and

1877
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:14,840
Speaker 1: you as doing the same thing. I think there's one

1878
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 1: of like ten or twelve minutes of boxing in the movie,

1879
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:20,560
Speaker 1: but some of those scenes are so powerful and you

1880
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:24,120
Speaker 1: feel they're so strongly shot in terms of seeing somebody

1881
01:43:24,160 --> 01:43:26,560
Speaker 1: get hit in the end, do you feel like it

1882
01:43:26,760 --> 01:43:29,160
Speaker 1: is like a whole movie about boxing When I was

1883
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: a kid. When I was a kid growing up in

1884
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:34,519
Speaker 1: west Chester and New York, actually boxed as a kid,

1885
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:40,840
Speaker 1: and Ja Clomada's cousin was my trainer. Is uh yeah,

1886
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:42,960
Speaker 1: so his one of his cousins, who I think is

1887
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:48,439
Speaker 1: famous for inventing the chip, which his his son was

1888
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:51,800
Speaker 1: Tommy Lamata was my boxing coach. So that's why I

1889
01:43:52,160 --> 01:43:55,320
Speaker 1: knew Jakelmata when I was like ten twelve years old.

1890
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:59,520
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, you know my cousin, Jakelomata. And immediately

1891
01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:02,280
Speaker 1: like we all went home after taking training and like

1892
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:05,599
Speaker 1: sat down and watched raising Bowl and then like as

1893
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:09,200
Speaker 1: kids were doing, you know, it's just like ten year

1894
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:11,479
Speaker 1: olds probably shouldn't be watching this movie in the first place,

1895
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:14,599
Speaker 1: but we're so into it in a way, I feel

1896
01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:21,160
Speaker 1: like after Raging Bull, every DeNiro role has like a

1897
01:44:21,320 --> 01:44:24,240
Speaker 1: little bit of Lamata in it, like it almost it

1898
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:27,560
Speaker 1: almost seems like late, especially like the late end of

1899
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:30,560
Speaker 1: DeNiro's career. Now there's a little bit of stuff that

1900
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:33,360
Speaker 1: you see in Jake Clamata that you didn't see before

1901
01:44:33,439 --> 01:44:35,200
Speaker 1: he took that role. But now it's kind of like

1902
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:37,960
Speaker 1: like he's doing Lamata and meet the Parents, you know,

1903
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:40,880
Speaker 1: and doing he's doing it in Good Feller, like he's

1904
01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:43,280
Speaker 1: doing it. Like I feel like it's now his middle

1905
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:47,160
Speaker 1: it's just like a Lamata lights. I mean, for me,

1906
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:49,800
Speaker 1: the thing about the movie, I mean, there's so many

1907
01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:52,920
Speaker 1: things about the movie, but just the performance, the DeNiro performance,

1908
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:55,080
Speaker 1: I know what you're saying. I mean, you know, I

1909
01:44:55,160 --> 01:45:00,320
Speaker 1: think that for somebody like DeNiro, his perform it's just

1910
01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 1: that they's so that we watched them over and over

1911
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:06,920
Speaker 1: and and and you know, and we're mesmerized, and you

1912
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:09,200
Speaker 1: rewind them, and you'll watch a scene over and your

1913
01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:12,560
Speaker 1: YouTube scene and and you'll you know, they're they're so

1914
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:18,720
Speaker 1: iconic and there's just something so charismatic about what he

1915
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:23,080
Speaker 1: does along with all the technical uh expertise you know

1916
01:45:23,160 --> 01:45:25,920
Speaker 1: as an actor, you know, I mean he's just so good.

1917
01:45:26,040 --> 01:45:28,280
Speaker 1: He just has the you know, there's like for me,

1918
01:45:28,439 --> 01:45:31,200
Speaker 1: like when I articulate like actors, like every actor has

1919
01:45:31,320 --> 01:45:33,360
Speaker 1: different energy, you know what I mean, Like acting is

1920
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:36,120
Speaker 1: like energy. Like there's the De Niro energy, there's the

1921
01:45:36,680 --> 01:45:39,719
Speaker 1: you know, Christopher Watkins energy, there's you know, good actors

1922
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:43,200
Speaker 1: have energy. I have energy. You know, bad actors have energy. Everybody,

1923
01:45:43,240 --> 01:45:46,840
Speaker 1: every actor brings a part of themselves to the roles.

1924
01:45:47,240 --> 01:45:50,000
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, sometimes like I've had I've

1925
01:45:50,040 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 1: had conversations with people where they'll be like, well, he's

1926
01:45:52,200 --> 01:45:54,640
Speaker 1: just you know, he does the same thing. And you know,

1927
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:56,720
Speaker 1: and and I mean that that's ridiculous because if you

1928
01:45:56,760 --> 01:45:59,519
Speaker 1: put the body of work, I mean, he's been so diverse.

1929
01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:03,160
Speaker 1: But the thing about that film and that that that uh,

1930
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:08,320
Speaker 1: that acting, just his his acting in particulars that it

1931
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:14,720
Speaker 1: was like craftsmanship, charisma and and sort of exposing of

1932
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:18,360
Speaker 1: himself all in one thing. You know. It's like the

1933
01:46:18,520 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 1: weight gain. So the method acting of it all, um,

1934
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:26,280
Speaker 1: the drama, the the the the the you know, looking

1935
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:28,920
Speaker 1: like a boxer, he he felt like a boxer. Then

1936
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:31,599
Speaker 1: he feels like a fat fuck um the way they

1937
01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:34,679
Speaker 1: changed his face. I mean, it just was every single

1938
01:46:34,840 --> 01:46:38,560
Speaker 1: thing clicked, and and every single thing clicked with Scorsese,

1939
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:41,360
Speaker 1: every single thing clicked with the sound. You know, the

1940
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:44,000
Speaker 1: sound of the movie is such a big part of it.

1941
01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:46,120
Speaker 1: Like if you watch the fight scenes, you know, like

1942
01:46:46,200 --> 01:46:48,479
Speaker 1: I was saying earlier about like you feel like you're

1943
01:46:48,520 --> 01:46:50,960
Speaker 1: in the ring, but like there's like all these rumblings

1944
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:53,240
Speaker 1: and like even like when you know the scenes when

1945
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:57,320
Speaker 1: he's you know, alone in the house with Um with Vicky,

1946
01:46:57,400 --> 01:46:59,640
Speaker 1: you'll hear, like you know, when they're fighting, like you know,

1947
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:01,720
Speaker 1: you'll here like if you listen to the film, if

1948
01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:03,680
Speaker 1: you just listen to it, you know, like the the

1949
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:07,479
Speaker 1: sound design is incredible, Like you know, there's like animal sounds,

1950
01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:10,479
Speaker 1: and you know, the punches are all different, and you know,

1951
01:47:10,800 --> 01:47:13,439
Speaker 1: the crowd and the screaming and the flash bulbs is

1952
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:15,840
Speaker 1: so prominent. I mean just I think everything about that

1953
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:18,880
Speaker 1: film just clicked. Like they were working on all cylinders.

1954
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:21,720
Speaker 1: Everybody was working on all cylinders, and it was from

1955
01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: the head down. And this was sort of a two

1956
01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:27,880
Speaker 1: headed uh monster. Because I think Scorsese and de Niro

1957
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:31,200
Speaker 1: were really really they were young. They were locked in.

1958
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:35,720
Speaker 1: I mean the movie. You know, it's thirty five years later,

1959
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing a podcast about it. Everyone loves it, everyone

1960
01:47:38,200 --> 01:47:40,479
Speaker 1: talks about it. But when the movie came out, you know,

1961
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:43,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't well received. It wasn't like some blockbuster film.

1962
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:46,080
Speaker 1: And as much as I love the movie, you know,

1963
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:49,519
Speaker 1: whenever I go to sit down to watch Raging Bull,

1964
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:52,000
Speaker 1: it's not like you're going to sit down to watch,

1965
01:47:52,400 --> 01:47:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, Meet the Parents or or Vacation or any

1966
01:47:56,160 --> 01:47:58,920
Speaker 1: kind of comedy. It's a hard movie to watch, you know,

1967
01:47:59,120 --> 01:48:01,840
Speaker 1: even even after seeing it. I've probably seen it over

1968
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:04,240
Speaker 1: a hundred times, you know, in pieces or in full.

1969
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:07,760
Speaker 1: It's not an easy movie to absorb. It's it's disturbing.

1970
01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:11,960
Speaker 1: It's but technically just the camera work in the in

1971
01:48:12,040 --> 01:48:15,360
Speaker 1: the boxing scenes, I've I've tried to break them down

1972
01:48:15,479 --> 01:48:18,040
Speaker 1: for twenty years. I've watched it, and like you still see,

1973
01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:20,679
Speaker 1: like if you watch it, like the way the camera moves,

1974
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:24,439
Speaker 1: it's poetry. It's perfection. And I just think that, you know,

1975
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:28,040
Speaker 1: with Pesci was perfect, Cathy, Mority was Moriarity was perfect,

1976
01:48:28,200 --> 01:48:31,439
Speaker 1: Every stitch of clothing was perfect, every piece of music

1977
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:35,120
Speaker 1: they used is perfect. It's just it's it's a perfect film.

1978
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:37,160
Speaker 1: That doesn't make it an easy film, but it's a

1979
01:48:37,280 --> 01:48:40,880
Speaker 1: perfect film um by people you know, working at the

1980
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:44,280
Speaker 1: highest level, um, you know, at the top of their

1981
01:48:44,320 --> 01:48:46,840
Speaker 1: game and and still being hungry. You know, like not

1982
01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:48,479
Speaker 1: that they're not now, but I mean when you're young,

1983
01:48:48,600 --> 01:48:50,800
Speaker 1: you could. You know. It's just like, you know, those

1984
01:48:50,840 --> 01:48:53,920
Speaker 1: guys were young Titans, they were young lions and and

1985
01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:56,360
Speaker 1: and they were they were fucking hungry, and they were

1986
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:59,479
Speaker 1: they were just you know, you know, they just they

1987
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:03,120
Speaker 1: made this movie and uh, you know it's just something special.

1988
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:05,080
Speaker 1: But I mean, if if you put out Raging bull today,

1989
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:07,120
Speaker 1: it would be you'd be lucky if it made it

1990
01:49:07,160 --> 01:49:09,880
Speaker 1: into a theater. You know. That's not I I was

1991
01:49:09,920 --> 01:49:11,639
Speaker 1: gonna say. I don't think they could do it to day.

1992
01:49:11,640 --> 01:49:14,599
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's just they couldn't. I think

1993
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:18,040
Speaker 1: there'd be too much PC bullshit and there'll be so

1994
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:20,800
Speaker 1: many different angles that people will be complaining about. I think,

1995
01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:23,920
Speaker 1: you know, it came out at the perfect time. Yeah,

1996
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:26,240
Speaker 1: it came out at the perfect time. And you know,

1997
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:28,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but like the

1998
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:30,920
Speaker 1: film at the you know, when they did the best

1999
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:34,640
Speaker 1: film of the eighties, Raging Bull won the best but

2000
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:37,000
Speaker 1: when the critics at the end of the decade, they

2001
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:39,639
Speaker 1: chose Raging Bull as the best film of the eighties,

2002
01:49:40,160 --> 01:49:43,400
Speaker 1: but it lost to ordinary People for the Oscar. Same

2003
01:49:43,439 --> 01:49:46,560
Speaker 1: thing with good Fellas, which is is not you know,

2004
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:49,160
Speaker 1: I think good Fellows is a flashier film. Not to

2005
01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:52,080
Speaker 1: say one's better than the other, the two different films.

2006
01:49:52,120 --> 01:49:54,920
Speaker 1: There are two masterworks, you know, but it's I think

2007
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:57,479
Speaker 1: good Fellows is a little bit easier to absorb, even

2008
01:49:57,560 --> 01:49:59,560
Speaker 1: though good Fellas isn't a fucking you know, it's not

2009
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:01,240
Speaker 1: a day the park. You know, it's a it's a

2010
01:50:01,600 --> 01:50:03,799
Speaker 1: it's a tough film too, but you know, good Fellas

2011
01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:06,880
Speaker 1: kind of makes Raging Bull look like, you know, an

2012
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:09,720
Speaker 1: easy film to absorb. I mean, Raging Bull. It it

2013
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:12,080
Speaker 1: doesn't have to, you know, good Fellows has the pace

2014
01:50:12,200 --> 01:50:14,200
Speaker 1: and it's it moves and it's quick, and it has

2015
01:50:14,280 --> 01:50:16,360
Speaker 1: voice over and it's you know, it's a it's easier

2016
01:50:16,439 --> 01:50:18,680
Speaker 1: to absorb if if if I mean it's not like

2017
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:21,479
Speaker 1: uh again, it's not like, you know, watching good Fellows

2018
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:23,559
Speaker 1: is like having an ice cream cone on a spring day.

2019
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:26,840
Speaker 1: But anyway, you know, so I I you know, I

2020
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:29,120
Speaker 1: appreciate you guys, you know, talking to me about it.

2021
01:50:29,200 --> 01:50:30,920
Speaker 1: I I'm a fan of what you guys are doing.

2022
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:32,600
Speaker 1: And you know, in the new year, I would love

2023
01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:34,760
Speaker 1: to come on your show and we could we could

2024
01:50:34,800 --> 01:50:37,519
Speaker 1: talk about sports, and we could start, Uh, we could

2025
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:39,840
Speaker 1: start with my guy Odell Beckham and and and what

2026
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:41,760
Speaker 1: what what went on yesterday? Because I know you guys

2027
01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:44,760
Speaker 1: are passionate fans. Oh yeah, we we got We're we're

2028
01:50:44,760 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 1: about to actually do ours, Michael. We're gonna get into

2029
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:49,479
Speaker 1: a good hour and a half discussion on what the

2030
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:53,880
Speaker 1: funk happened yesterday. Hey listen, I don't know what the

2031
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:56,320
Speaker 1: funk happened, but uh, I think that that's gonna be

2032
01:50:56,360 --> 01:50:58,479
Speaker 1: a lesson, a lesson learned from him. I mean, I think,

2033
01:50:58,640 --> 01:51:00,479
Speaker 1: you know, there's so much going on east uch a star,

2034
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:02,760
Speaker 1: and he's so great. I just hope, I just hope.

2035
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:04,680
Speaker 1: At one point he turned to Norm and he was like,

2036
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:09,639
Speaker 1: you never got me down. Down. That's good, that's good,

2037
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:12,040
Speaker 1: that's good. That's right. You never got me down, Norm.

2038
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:17,280
Speaker 1: You never got me down. Man. Danny a yellow, a

2039
01:51:17,479 --> 01:51:21,120
Speaker 1: raging bull. Bobby was over the house with banging the

2040
01:51:21,160 --> 01:51:23,680
Speaker 1: drunk slowly at the my when I lived in the

2041
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:27,840
Speaker 1: project and someone gave me a paramount. They gave me

2042
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:31,000
Speaker 1: a script and a book. Pete Savage was a man's name.

2043
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:34,760
Speaker 1: He was the co writer of Raging Bull. And they

2044
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:37,000
Speaker 1: grabbed me because they knew I had just done banged

2045
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:38,600
Speaker 1: the drum, so they didn't know me for man. I

2046
01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:40,560
Speaker 1: get called up the paramount. I'm saying, holy sh it.

2047
01:51:40,640 --> 01:51:42,599
Speaker 1: They saying they're doing the boxing film. I think I'm

2048
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:44,040
Speaker 1: going to be in and I think they're asking me

2049
01:51:44,120 --> 01:51:46,200
Speaker 1: to do something. Am I going to play the fucking

2050
01:51:46,280 --> 01:51:49,400
Speaker 1: Raging Bull? You know? I was all excited, so naturally

2051
01:51:49,479 --> 01:51:51,160
Speaker 1: they were using me. I had no idea that I

2052
01:51:51,280 --> 01:51:54,560
Speaker 1: was being used. So I brought the book to my

2053
01:51:54,720 --> 01:51:57,559
Speaker 1: house because I knew Bobby was at the house. I said, Bobby,

2054
01:51:57,560 --> 01:51:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do this. I really don't

2055
01:51:59,040 --> 01:52:01,040
Speaker 1: know how to do this. I people ask me to

2056
01:52:01,160 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 1: present this to you because they knew we were close.

2057
01:52:03,439 --> 01:52:05,840
Speaker 1: I'll apologize beforehand for doing this. I don't know if

2058
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:08,360
Speaker 1: you're gonna be upset or anything, but I didn't know

2059
01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:10,280
Speaker 1: what to do. But I didn't want you to lose out.

2060
01:52:10,760 --> 01:52:12,920
Speaker 1: And I said to him, I said the reason I'm

2061
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:17,400
Speaker 1: giving you this book. If Rocky Massi, if Rocky Graziano's

2062
01:52:17,640 --> 01:52:20,920
Speaker 1: movie was being done, somebody up there likes me. If

2063
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:22,840
Speaker 1: it was being done today, they would ask you to

2064
01:52:22,920 --> 01:52:24,960
Speaker 1: do it, Robert, you would be perfect and you would

2065
01:52:25,040 --> 01:52:29,240
Speaker 1: kill This is tantamount to what that book was. He said, box,

2066
01:52:29,320 --> 01:52:31,880
Speaker 1: I don't box. I said, well, it's more of a

2067
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:35,760
Speaker 1: character study than it is a boxing It's a boxing film, yes,

2068
01:52:35,840 --> 01:52:39,280
Speaker 1: but it's a caress character study. He took the book,

2069
01:52:39,560 --> 01:52:42,599
Speaker 1: all right, and he takes it to Italy with him

2070
01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:45,960
Speaker 1: because he's going to Italy to the turn of the

2071
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:48,519
Speaker 1: century Italians he wants to talk to because he's about

2072
01:52:48,560 --> 01:52:52,080
Speaker 1: to do Godfather too, So he goes over there. Now

2073
01:52:52,240 --> 01:52:56,519
Speaker 1: keep in mind, paramount we're calling me every day, every day,

2074
01:52:56,600 --> 01:53:00,679
Speaker 1: inviting me, buying me lunch and everything. Suddenly, Byby's in Italy,

2075
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:04,960
Speaker 1: I can't get into that fucking office. If I had

2076
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:08,640
Speaker 1: a key, they didn't answer the phone. I'm talking about Paramounts.

2077
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:11,840
Speaker 1: I knew something went down, And what went down was

2078
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:16,479
Speaker 1: Bobby accepted that he was working with De Laurentis at

2079
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:20,000
Speaker 1: Now Bobby comes back. They don't do it with de Lorentis,

2080
01:53:20,760 --> 01:53:22,519
Speaker 1: a couple of years go by and they do it

2081
01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:27,960
Speaker 1: with Moti, Sco Sacy and Winkler and the other and

2082
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:33,439
Speaker 1: they decided to do it all right. This is the

2083
01:53:33,479 --> 01:53:39,040
Speaker 1: Iron Rapport podcast. Um calling up the pronx Bull, the

2084
01:53:39,200 --> 01:53:49,080
Speaker 1: Raging Bull ladies and gentlemen. J Clamata, alright's ringing? Hi there, Denise,

2085
01:53:49,080 --> 01:53:52,720
Speaker 1: how you doing? It's Michael Rappaport. Hi, Michael, how are you?

2086
01:53:52,960 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm good. How are you doing? I'm okay,

2087
01:53:56,560 --> 01:54:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm going up. Just hold on a stay the phone

2088
01:54:02,160 --> 01:54:08,799
Speaker 1: met and we'll get him right now. Okay, yeah, oh great.

2089
01:54:10,720 --> 01:54:17,479
Speaker 1: Josh micro Graphaport the actor on the phone, trying to

2090
01:54:18,160 --> 01:54:21,800
Speaker 1: do for the last week or so, and Um, he's

2091
01:54:21,800 --> 01:54:24,120
Speaker 1: going to ask you just a two questions without Raging

2092
01:54:24,280 --> 01:54:27,960
Speaker 1: Bull because it's the anniversary is it? What anniversary? It's

2093
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:32,680
Speaker 1: the thirty thirty fifth anniversary of the movie. Yeah, thirty

2094
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:36,400
Speaker 1: fifth anniversary of Raging Bull. Jake, So I'm going to

2095
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:38,240
Speaker 1: do an interview with you. Can you hear? Can I

2096
01:54:38,480 --> 01:54:41,200
Speaker 1: speak to him now? Jake? How you doing? Champ? Oh

2097
01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:48,600
Speaker 1: my grew, how you feeling? Champ? Thank you? He said,

2098
01:54:48,640 --> 01:54:51,280
Speaker 1: how are you doing? Not how are you feeling? Or

2099
01:54:54,280 --> 01:54:58,000
Speaker 1: thank you? Ha ha ha. Listen, I just wanted to

2100
01:54:58,080 --> 01:55:00,240
Speaker 1: tell you. First of all, I'm a humongous and of

2101
01:55:00,360 --> 01:55:04,480
Speaker 1: your career when you were fighting. I first heard about

2102
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:06,840
Speaker 1: you when my father he he actually was at the

2103
01:55:06,920 --> 01:55:11,640
Speaker 1: garden when you fought, uh, Robertson and Madison Square Garden. Yeah,

2104
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:17,480
Speaker 1: it's a really long time ago. Well, you've had, you've had.

2105
01:55:17,680 --> 01:55:24,480
Speaker 1: You've had a really long, great, interesting, crazy life, haven't you. Yeah,

2106
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:28,840
Speaker 1: I guess so. So so I'm doing this this sort

2107
01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:35,080
Speaker 1: of review celebration of the movie Raging Bull. I love

2108
01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:43,280
Speaker 1: the movie. Um, the reason why I loved the movie great. Yeah,

2109
01:55:43,320 --> 01:55:47,640
Speaker 1: he was fantastic. Yeah, he's He's the best, don't you think?

2110
01:55:48,880 --> 01:55:55,520
Speaker 1: I think? Yeah? I agree, Jake? Do you follow boxing

2111
01:55:55,560 --> 01:56:05,560
Speaker 1: it all anymore? Really? See? What's a while TV? I

2112
01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:07,640
Speaker 1: just want to let you know I appreciate you taking

2113
01:56:07,680 --> 01:56:11,480
Speaker 1: the time, and uh, I'm glad you're doing good. I

2114
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:13,920
Speaker 1: can't believe you're ninety four, and I hope you live.

2115
01:56:14,320 --> 01:56:19,200
Speaker 1: You hope you live another fifteen. Three would be sandy

2116
01:56:19,400 --> 01:56:24,840
Speaker 1: three that make me make me alright, alright, I won't

2117
01:56:24,880 --> 01:56:26,800
Speaker 1: make you a year older. Sorry, sorry, I don't want

2118
01:56:26,840 --> 01:56:29,520
Speaker 1: no problems with you, Jake, and I wish you a

2119
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:32,360
Speaker 1: good holiday alright, Jake, I wish you could merry Christmas.

2120
01:56:33,400 --> 01:56:38,920
Speaker 1: It's happy, yeah, God, you have a good Christius. You too,

2121
01:56:39,040 --> 01:56:39,400
Speaker 1: Jacob