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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Law. I'm June Grasso. With less

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Speaker 1: than two weeks left in his administration, President Barack Obama

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Speaker 1: made history by becoming the first sitting president to write

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Speaker 1: a law review article. He wrote the article for the

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Speaker 1: Harvard Law Review, where he made history as a student

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Speaker 1: by becoming the first black president of a legal journal.

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Speaker 1: In the article is entitled the President's Role in Advancing

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Speaker 1: Criminal Justice Reform, and it touts his administration's reforms of

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Speaker 1: the criminal justice system, among other things. My guest is

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Speaker 1: Michael sell Me, professor at George Washington University Law School. Mike,

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Speaker 1: we've seen President Obama trying in various ways to preserve

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Speaker 1: his legacy. What's your reaction to this writing of a

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Speaker 1: law review article touting his reforms in criminal justice. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a very interesting test that he took on writing

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Speaker 1: a law article. And by the nature of lariev articles,

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Speaker 1: it's actually quite long. Um Larva articles tend to be

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Speaker 1: around fifty pages, and this one is um fully footnoted,

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Speaker 1: and so he really, um, you know, took the time

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Speaker 1: to document what they have done in the criminal justice

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Speaker 1: area and clearly within intent both to you know, preserve

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Speaker 1: his legacy, but also I think to give a signal

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Speaker 1: of the things that advocacy groups likely can do to

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Speaker 1: try and preserve much of what the Obama administration has accomplished.

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Speaker 1: The president's chief legal advisor said that Obama also hoped

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Speaker 1: the article would give the issue of criminal justice reform

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Speaker 1: momentum as he leaves office. As as you just indicated,

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Speaker 1: is that likely since the incoming president ran on a

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Speaker 1: tough law and order platform and his selection for Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: Senator Jeff Sessions, has, among other things, been one of

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Speaker 1: the opponents of bipartisan sentencing reform. Yes. Um, it certainly

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Speaker 1: seems that the agenda that is laid out in the

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Speaker 1: article is quite contrary to the agenda that the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration is bringing in. But it's not so clear to

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Speaker 1: me that they will try to undo all that's been done. Um,

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Speaker 1: particularly uh the emphasis on re entry of individuals who

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Speaker 1: have gone through the criminal justice system, some of the

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Speaker 1: bann the box where employers, and this has happened nationwide,

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Speaker 1: have agreed not to hold criminal convictions against against applicants

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Speaker 1: and also not to take into account that they might

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Speaker 1: be unemployed when they're applying, and those initiatives which are

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Speaker 1: good for the economy and also help relieve some of

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Speaker 1: the stigma of the criminal justice system may be preserved,

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Speaker 1: and as well as some of the reduction in the

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Speaker 1: criminal population in terms of prison the prison population in particular,

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Speaker 1: which is also something that's been happening around the country.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that was interesting in terms of

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Speaker 1: the report is it does a lot of what the

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Speaker 1: above administration has done and it's not clear who caused it.

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Speaker 1: Has also have been done in local and state jurisdictions

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Speaker 1: around the country, and a lot of the initiatives have

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Speaker 1: been as cost savants, and that's been true with an

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Speaker 1: effort to reduce the prison population. So those things there

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Speaker 1: will be interesting to see whether the momentum continues or not.

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Speaker 1: Are there certain things that President Obama has done as

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Speaker 1: far as you know what his heart felt concerns about

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Speaker 1: reducing harsh sentences and are there certain things that cannot

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Speaker 1: be undone by the incoming administration. I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that there's anything that can't be undone in terms

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Speaker 1: of the initiative. Certainly some of the things that they've

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Speaker 1: accomplished and uh that's already passed can't be undone. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that also comes across in the report

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Speaker 1: is that the President of the executive branch has limited

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Speaker 1: authority in this area, and a lot of the initiatives

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Speaker 1: that the administration implemented were as a result of their

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Speaker 1: prosecutorial discrestion um. And that is certainly something that can

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Speaker 1: change overnight. Es such as the epicus that prosecutors might

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Speaker 1: put on which climbs to prosecute, which sentences to um seek,

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Speaker 1: what plea deals to take, and the like um. And

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Speaker 1: the President did lament in the article that he wasn't

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Speaker 1: able to accomplish more given the resistance from Congress, in

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Speaker 1: particularly with respect of sensing reform UM. And that's something

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Speaker 1: that you know is probably unlikely to be picked up

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Speaker 1: anytime soon. But again, there is a nationwide movement to

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Speaker 1: um reduce some of the harshness of the sentences from

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Speaker 1: the sentencing acts that we're passing the eighties and nineties

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about the police initiatives. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is another one where there's been some clear

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Speaker 1: differences with the incoming administration. So one of the hallmarks

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Speaker 1: of the administration's efforts, and this is slightly different than

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Speaker 1: the Criminal Justice reform. But it's referenced in the article

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Speaker 1: is that the administration has been quite active and investigating

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Speaker 1: police departments for discriminatory conduct and for excessive force UM.

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Speaker 1: And they have probably been more active than any other administration,

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Speaker 1: particularly towards the end of this administration. And they have

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Speaker 1: sought to institute some reforms in particular police apartments, but

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Speaker 1: also with task Force and the like in police departments

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Speaker 1: nationwide to reduce UM shootings and excessive force. And the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration has UM at least during the campaign, was

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Speaker 1: much more supportive of the police departments UM and less

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Speaker 1: critical than the Obama administration has been. And that's another

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Speaker 1: area that could be changed. But in certainly in some

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Speaker 1: of the jurisdictions UM, the consent decrees already in place,

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Speaker 1: and the investigations are completed, and those initiatives certainly go forward.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect to see when Senator Jeff Sessions is

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Speaker 1: questioned as his in his fourth coming or as a

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Speaker 1: nominee for Attorney general? Do you expect to see him

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Speaker 1: questioned about police and initiatives and civil rights investigations? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I certainly would expect that the controversy with his appointment

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Speaker 1: largely has to do with his positions on civil rights issues,

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Speaker 1: and these initiatives are largely traditional civil rights initiatives focusing

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Speaker 1: on the treatment of African American, particularly African American men

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Speaker 1: by police departments. And I would think it would be

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Speaker 1: an area of inquiry um and controversies that may come

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Speaker 1: up during the hearings. It's also another thing it's highlighted

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Speaker 1: in the report, but it's not addressed in detail, but

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Speaker 1: again giving signals to the abbassies groups and those who

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Speaker 1: might be opposing UM centers sessions, UH that these are

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Speaker 1: issues that should be you know, preserved and also should

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Speaker 1: be a focus of the confirmation hearings. There's also what

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Speaker 1: President Obama didn't talk about, and one of the areas

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Speaker 1: that some had hoped to see him talk about was

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Speaker 1: capital punishment. Do you do you do you believe that

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Speaker 1: it's because he doesn't his opinion has not changed, or

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Speaker 1: because he didn't want to tackle that At this point,

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Speaker 1: I don't know the reason why it's not discussed. One

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Speaker 1: of the thing that's interesting with respect capital punishment is

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Speaker 1: that the number of executions, in the number of death

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Speaker 1: ends is handed out have dramatically declined around the country.

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Speaker 1: There's only a handful of jurisdictions that actively are seeking

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Speaker 1: definitely or an executing individuals. So it seems like it's

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Speaker 1: become less of an issue nationwide, and that might be

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons why he didn't address it. And

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Speaker 1: the federal government has limited authority, I mean, there's only

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Speaker 1: certain crimes that that settle government can pursue the definitely,

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Speaker 1: it's much more of a state issue, So that could

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Speaker 1: be another possible reason. He He also seemed to be

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Speaker 1: explaining why he hasn't been on the record for a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things. He said, presidents are not private citizens.

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Speaker 1: We have to be careful about speaking about legal matters

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Speaker 1: before all the facts are in. It is that message

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Speaker 1: to the incoming president as well. Oh, it almost certainly

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Speaker 1: is a message to the incoming president. And also I

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Speaker 1: think he is trying to um address some of his

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Speaker 1: critics and I've been critical in some respects of some

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Speaker 1: of his civil rights policies for him not having done more,

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Speaker 1: although he has they have ramping the last couple of years. UM,

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Speaker 1: but he has received criticism from the left for some

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Speaker 1: of his policon I think he is also trying to

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Speaker 1: explain why he maybe wasn't more active on some perious um.

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Speaker 1: That is, you know the limits of the office. But

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Speaker 1: I think you're also it's also correct that is a

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Speaker 1: message to the incoming president. Well, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: on with us. Michael Sell me professor at George Washington

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Speaker 1: University Law School. And this is actually a law review

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Speaker 1: article that the average person can read and uh and

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Speaker 1: get through quite easily because it's not your typical law

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Speaker 1: review article coming up on Bloomberg Law. Star Trek has

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Speaker 1: been a cult phenomenon for decades. Paramount Pictures and CBS

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Speaker 1: just got the upper hand in a court fight to

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Speaker 1: protect their money making franchise and stop an unauthorized fan

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Speaker 1: made prequel to the nineteen sixties Star Trek series. I'm

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Speaker 1: John Grosso. This is Bloomberg