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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for such an one fourteen of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. A few weeks ago, Dr

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Speaker 1: Rdrey Townsil joined us to talk about co parenting and

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Speaker 1: we got lots of follow up questions about being a

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Speaker 1: stepparent or dating someone with children. So in today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll be diving into all of this. For this conversation,

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Speaker 1: I was joined by Shelley Ware. Shelley is a licensed

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Speaker 1: marriage and family therapist as well as a step family

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Speaker 1: coach with a private practice in the state of California.

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Speaker 1: Shelley sees clients both in person and online. She specializes

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Speaker 1: in working with step parents, as well as millennial and

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Speaker 1: Gen X women of color experiencing stress in their relationships

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Speaker 1: or careers. Shelley has ten years of experience working with

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Speaker 1: families and has training in parent child interactive therapy. She's

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Speaker 1: also a contributing writer to step Mom Magazine and online

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Speaker 1: magazine dedicated to helping step moms both married and cohabitating

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Speaker 1: navigate the challenges of step parenting and recoupling. Shelley and

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Speaker 1: I chatted about some of the common challenges that may

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Speaker 1: come up when dating someone with children, some common misconceptions

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Speaker 1: about step families, how to engage with the kids, and

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Speaker 1: she shared her favorite resources about step families. If you

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Speaker 1: hear anything while listening that really resonates with you, please

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Speaker 1: be sure to share with us on social media using

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Speaker 1: the hashtag tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today, Shelly. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me, Dr Joy, I really appreciate, you know,

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Speaker 1: this opportunity to come on and talk about something I'm

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Speaker 1: extremely passionate about. Thank you. Yes, So, we had a

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Speaker 1: recent episode all about co parenting with Dr Audrey Townsel,

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Speaker 1: and of course I always love when we get lots

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Speaker 1: of conversation and questions after the episodes, because that means

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Speaker 1: that that there's of course more for us to talk

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Speaker 1: with and talk about. And so, you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of the questions that we had afterwards were from the

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Speaker 1: other perspective of what if I'm dating somebody who has

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Speaker 1: kids and you know, how do you enter into this

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Speaker 1: kind of a situation people having loss of anxiety about

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Speaker 1: what all of that means. And so this is your

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Speaker 1: area of expertise, right dealing with step families, and you know,

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Speaker 1: how do you kind of work to kind of bring

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Speaker 1: that whole system together. So I'm excited to have you

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Speaker 1: here to share your expertise with us about that. So

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Speaker 1: I want to start just by kind of talking, you know,

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Speaker 1: directly to some of the people who have concerns about

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Speaker 1: maybe dating somebody with children. What do you think some

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Speaker 1: of those common concerns are, like what makes that, you know,

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Speaker 1: makes people have so much trepidation about that. I would

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Speaker 1: say that there are a few things that come top

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Speaker 1: of mind what I'm working with families or with just

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Speaker 1: step parents in particular, and I would say the top

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Speaker 1: ones are definitely the former partner or the ex the

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Speaker 1: other one would be parenting and discipline, like how much

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Speaker 1: to do, how much you shouldn't do regarding your stepchild

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Speaker 1: or potential stepchild. Another one would be you know, not

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Speaker 1: fit well once you're into the relationship, I should say.

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Speaker 1: Another one is not having the relationship prioritized because sometimes

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Speaker 1: what happens in step families because it's out of a

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Speaker 1: you know, a loss and the partner that you're dating

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Speaker 1: is either a single parent, they're either divorced, or they

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Speaker 1: are a widow, and so your introduction to them and

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Speaker 1: to this family is starts with the loss of a

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Speaker 1: parent or either a relationship that didn't work out. And

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Speaker 1: so because of that, would parents sometimes do the biological

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Speaker 1: parents of your stepchild or potential stepchild well parents sometime

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Speaker 1: out of guilt, and so what happens is there is

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Speaker 1: a lot of boundaries that gets crossed sometime in an

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Speaker 1: effort you don't know, soothe the child's wounds and to

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Speaker 1: help them adjust to this new change. That you know,

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Speaker 1: their mom or dad is no longer in this particular

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Speaker 1: relationship and that they've moved on as far as relationship,

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Speaker 1: but that they will always be your parents. So because

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Speaker 1: of that, sometimes a step family or a step couple

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Speaker 1: can get into a rut of having what I call

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Speaker 1: like a child centered relationship, which can be really stressful

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Speaker 1: on both the couple and the family because it does

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Speaker 1: need to be prioritized because if you're coming together to

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Speaker 1: create a family, you want the couple union to be

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Speaker 1: strong as well. And so I would say those are

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Speaker 1: the top things. Other things that come up are things

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Speaker 1: like loyalty binds or outside or syndrome which to touch on.

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Speaker 1: Those loyalty binds would be something that a step child experiences,

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Speaker 1: and so it's really up to the other parents or

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Speaker 1: you're not dating, and they have a lot of control

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Speaker 1: and power to have the relationship come together with ease

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Speaker 1: with a stepparent, or they can make it really difficult.

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Speaker 1: And so a loyalty bond would look like a child

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Speaker 1: feeling like, Okay, I love my mom, my biological mom,

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Speaker 1: of course, but here's this other person who's step mom

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Speaker 1: or step girlfriend or whomever. And then there is a

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Speaker 1: kind of almost competition I would say, to our mom

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Speaker 1: each other sometimes. But you have to be really careful

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Speaker 1: about that because you know, if the child has an

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Speaker 1: involved mother or an involved father, you don't want to

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Speaker 1: step on any toes. You definitely want to not insist

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Speaker 1: that your stepchild call you mom or dad. You want

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation about what they're comfortable with as

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Speaker 1: well as what you're comfortable with. And so a loyalty

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Speaker 1: bund is more like the child feeling like maybe there's

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Speaker 1: not enough love to go around, or maybe I'm not

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Speaker 1: allowed to like this new person, and so they feel

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Speaker 1: in conflict of whether they should even feel close to

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Speaker 1: you and or whether they should back off and if

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Speaker 1: they should kind of side with their biological parents when

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Speaker 1: you're not dating in their view of um, the step parents.

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Speaker 1: So those are some things that come up, as well

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Speaker 1: as money, you know, child support or versus lack of

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Speaker 1: child support. So quite a bit comes up. Yeah, Shelley,

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Speaker 1: you've already given us quite a lot to us and

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Speaker 1: to go through. But and I'm really glad that you

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Speaker 1: started off. I think it is really important to think

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Speaker 1: about the fact that these new relationships do start off

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Speaker 1: with a loss, like you mentioned, right, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: we know as a society sometimes we just don't do

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Speaker 1: a really good job of like managing grief and really

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Speaker 1: talking about loss and the impact that loss can have.

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Speaker 1: But when you're thinking about the fact that there has

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Speaker 1: been a significant at laws now, particularly for this child

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Speaker 1: and even for the other partner, you do have to

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Speaker 1: be very careful, I think in managing you know, the

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Speaker 1: creation of this new potential family unit. Yeah, definitely, you

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Speaker 1: have to tread carefully and very lightly. And I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes in the case of bereavement particularly, there's a misconception

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Speaker 1: that because a person you're in a relationship maybe a widow,

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Speaker 1: that is somehow easier. But it's not because you know,

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Speaker 1: sometime when a person passes, they are idealized, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: and so it's difficult to come in because, like you said,

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Speaker 1: the child and the person you're in relationship is grieving

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Speaker 1: the loss of someone who meant a lot to them.

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Speaker 1: There was no breakup, there was no divorce, and so

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Speaker 1: it takes a lot for both the step children and

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Speaker 1: for the partner to you know, open up their heart

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Speaker 1: and to be willing to try again. And the other

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Speaker 1: piece about breakups or divorce is sometimes children are afraid

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Speaker 1: to get close to a new person because they may associate. Okay,

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Speaker 1: when adults get together, it doesn't last. And so I

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Speaker 1: encourage a lot of families to move slowly and to

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Speaker 1: give you know, everyone an opportunity, because it's really common

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Speaker 1: for single, divorced or widow parents to meet someone they click,

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Speaker 1: they're good with the fact that they have children, and

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Speaker 1: there's this excitement like, Okay, I found someone, we can

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Speaker 1: go to the next step. And sometime they find they

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Speaker 1: are the only two people who are excited, you know,

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Speaker 1: their former partners not excited. The children are not excited,

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Speaker 1: And it just takes you know, some understanding and to

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Speaker 1: slow down to catch up to everyone else's takes, because

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Speaker 1: not everyone is as happy about this new union as

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Speaker 1: the two people involved are always are, right of course,

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Speaker 1: of course, so I want to also go back to

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Speaker 1: this whole idea of boundaries, right, like the idea that

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the parent who is starting this new

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Speaker 1: relationship maybe parenting out of a place of guilt, right,

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Speaker 1: So what might that look like like? What might that

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Speaker 1: dynamic look like for somebody who's parenting from a place

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Speaker 1: of gut. That's a really great question, and this comes

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Speaker 1: up quite a bit in my practice, and so I

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Speaker 1: noticed some things that come up. This can of course

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Speaker 1: happen with from mother to daughter and from father to son.

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Speaker 1: But I've found it particularly interesting. I don't know, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of research on it, but this is just my,

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Speaker 1: you know, anecdotal observation that there is seems to be

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Speaker 1: a lot more strained and the boundaries seem to get

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Speaker 1: blurred when it's a mom towards her son and a

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Speaker 1: father towards his daughter. And so in the step community,

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily like the term, but sometime when it's

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Speaker 1: father to daughter, there's like a slang sometimes that they use,

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Speaker 1: such as like a mini wife because sometime Dad, he's

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Speaker 1: lonely and either because of a breakup or widow situation.

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Speaker 1: And sometime this also happens, like I said, with mother

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Speaker 1: to son. So the parent is either grieving or they're lonely,

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Speaker 1: and they're going through this stage of adjustment. And so

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Speaker 1: they went from this house that is, you know, full

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Speaker 1: of all of these people coming together, the parents, the

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Speaker 1: kids running through the house that you know, everything is

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Speaker 1: about family. And then that period after a breakup or

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Speaker 1: a divorce, everything is really silent and the household is

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Speaker 1: really quiet, and it takes a lot of adjusting. And

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Speaker 1: so children pick up on the fact that their parents

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Speaker 1: are sad, and so sometimes they will approach their parents

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Speaker 1: or what's wrong, and instead of the parents saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a little sad, sometimes they will open up

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Speaker 1: the floodgate, so to speak, and kind of confide in

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Speaker 1: their own child, which is, you know, sometimes that's okay.

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Speaker 1: It's it's fine, of course for a child to see

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Speaker 1: their parents cry or to feel sad, because we also

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Speaker 1: want to model, you know, a range of emotions for

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Speaker 1: our children. But you have to be really careful of

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Speaker 1: not saying too much, especially in the case of single

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Speaker 1: parenting or divorce, because there's a breakup involved and you

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Speaker 1: want to kind of separate your feelings from what you're

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Speaker 1: kind of projecting onto the child. So the child may

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Speaker 1: walk up to you and say Dad did such and such,

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Speaker 1: and it may be tempting to say, yeah, I remember

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Speaker 1: what he used to do that with me, And so

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Speaker 1: you have to really, you know, restrain yourself and exercise

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Speaker 1: you know, like emotional discipline, because it can get really

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Speaker 1: difficult when you're in that space of grieving and you

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Speaker 1: want to be close to someone and your child is

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Speaker 1: right there. So what happens is that's how the boundaries

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Speaker 1: get crossed, and it is the emotional boundary that gets

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Speaker 1: blurred where you know, sometimes parents are talking to their

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Speaker 1: children about things that can be kind of left off

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Speaker 1: the table in regard to who they're dating or the

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Speaker 1: former partner who was you know, once their partner, or

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Speaker 1: their mom or dead. And so that's what it would

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Speaker 1: look like the guilty piece. Parenting out of guilt, I

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Speaker 1: would say, it looks like if the parent that you're

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Speaker 1: dating is the non custodial parent, meaning they don't have

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Speaker 1: the majority of the time with their child, which in

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Speaker 1: most cases sometimes it can be mom in the situation,

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Speaker 1: but for the most part is dead as the non

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Speaker 1: custodial parent, And so what will happen is during the visits,

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Speaker 1: there's this rush to kind of do all of these

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Speaker 1: things with the child to make up for the breakup

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Speaker 1: or the divorce. So a lack of responsibility sometimes almost

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say spoiling, but over indulgence sometime

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Speaker 1: in an effort to you know, lift the child's spirits

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Speaker 1: instead of engaging in more balanced activities which would counteract

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Speaker 1: some of the over indulgence. So there's like a lack

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Speaker 1: of Sometimes chores comes up a lot uh with new

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Speaker 1: step families, or lack thereof or talking respectfully to the

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Speaker 1: parents in front of the new partner because that boundary

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Speaker 1: has been crossed. And so sometimes children will feel like

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Speaker 1: they are their parents here because they have been talking

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Speaker 1: with them so long during this gap of when they

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Speaker 1: weren't with anyone, and it was right after this breakup,

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Speaker 1: that this may be a pattern that they fell into.

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Speaker 1: Gunch You Okay, So it sounds like he can go

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Speaker 1: either the way of maybe the the child becoming a

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Speaker 1: bit parential in some ways kind of feeling like they

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Speaker 1: have to kind of take care of their parents, or

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Speaker 1: I could go the other way of, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: some more permissiveness, right and the kids kind of getting

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Speaker 1: everything they want because you know, they feel like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they've already had a tough time with this separation or

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Speaker 1: a dead and now I'm just kind of give them

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Speaker 1: whatever they want to make them feel better. Exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of I would say emotional parentification. It's

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Speaker 1: not parentification and the sense of like, okay, they have

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Speaker 1: to cook and clean. It's more like the child becomes

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Speaker 1: moms or dad's confid on and so that's you know

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Speaker 1: what it looks like. And like you said, there's you know,

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Speaker 1: a level of permissiveness. And this is you know, all

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Speaker 1: families are different, All single divorce and widow parents behave

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Speaker 1: different but this is a common thing that comes up

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Speaker 1: over and over is a sense of guilt about setting

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Speaker 1: boundaries with your children, setting limits as well as appropriate age,

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Speaker 1: appropriate concept onuances for behavior that's not you know, favorable,

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Speaker 1: that may not help them in the long run, and

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Speaker 1: that may you know, down the line, calls conflict not

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Speaker 1: only between the step parent, but conflict between you know,

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Speaker 1: the biological child and their their parents. So you mentioned also,

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Speaker 1: Shelley that one of the most common things why people

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Speaker 1: maybe have some trepidation of entering into a family unit

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Speaker 1: where they're already children present, is this whole idea of

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Speaker 1: the interaction with the ex partner, right, And so what

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Speaker 1: kinds of things do you have to say for that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it may be interesting to talk

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Speaker 1: even from both sides of the couch, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: So maybe talking to somebody who is maybe interested in

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Speaker 1: dating somewhere with children and also the ex partner, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: if the ex partner is struggling with the idea that

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Speaker 1: there's someone you coming into the family, what kinds of

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Speaker 1: things might you talk with them about in therapy to

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Speaker 1: really help them kind of process this. I would say

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Speaker 1: for the angle or divorced parent that it takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of you know, emotional healing because you never know

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Speaker 1: why the breakup occurred, and there may be some old

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Speaker 1: wounds that they're struggling with and to see this new

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Speaker 1: person in the picture can be extremely triggering, specifically if

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Speaker 1: the single or divorced parent had a really negative experience

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Speaker 1: with their former partner. So I encourage people to take

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Speaker 1: some time for their self and not to rush getting

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Speaker 1: into a new relationship or feel pressure just because their

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Speaker 1: partner may have moved quickly into a new relationship, and

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Speaker 1: to allow themselves that space and that time that it

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Speaker 1: takes to heal from this and to you know, I

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Speaker 1: do recommend therapy so that they have a safe place

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Speaker 1: to kind of process all of the thoughts and emotions

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Speaker 1: that may be really troubling for them. And they sometime

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Speaker 1: with single or divorce parents, they may get the idea that,

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Speaker 1: you know, is this is my former partner being a

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Speaker 1: better partner with this person, like are they getting the

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Speaker 1: best of them? And I didn't and am I am

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Speaker 1: I not worth? It? Was I not worth it, and

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Speaker 1: they may struggle with that, and it's difficult, you know,

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Speaker 1: to send your baby, you know, off for visits with

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Speaker 1: this person that you don't know, especially if your partner

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Speaker 1: has moved to the step of cohabitating, or if they're

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Speaker 1: engaged or they're remarried, because you don't know what goes

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Speaker 1: on in that household. But I encourage a single and

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Speaker 1: divorced parents to you know, focus on it's difficult, but

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Speaker 1: to focus on what you can control within your household,

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Speaker 1: because co parenting is not always possible. Sometimes when they

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Speaker 1: go to the other house, the rules are just they're different.

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Speaker 1: And I would say for people who are you know,

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Speaker 1: into rested or thinking about dating someone who is you know,

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Speaker 1: who's already a parent and who has a former partner

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Speaker 1: who they share a child with, the things I think

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Speaker 1: that come up is once the relationship when it's new,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, like any relationship, it's exciting. But

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Speaker 1: to encourage them to really slow down and to think

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Speaker 1: about the ramifications of joining a unit that's pretty much

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of halfway created already, and that you know,

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Speaker 1: some things that come up down the line when you

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Speaker 1: move too quickly. Is this idea for the step parent

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Speaker 1: is if you're talking about a step mom in particular,

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Speaker 1: of this kind of symbolic grief that they go through,

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Speaker 1: of like oh no, I'll never give my partner their

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Speaker 1: first child, and some people really struggle with that. And

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Speaker 1: that's why I encourage moving extremely slow and to you know,

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Speaker 1: really get solid with your partner first and then to gradually,

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Speaker 1: you know, hang out with the kids. And I would

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Speaker 1: say on the piece of the step parent or someone

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Speaker 1: who's interested in dating a person with children, is that

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Speaker 1: when you get to the stage you've met their child,

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Speaker 1: is to really think about what role that you want

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Speaker 1: to play in their life, because ultimately, the primary responsibility

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Speaker 1: is the person you're dating. And I know sometime for

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Speaker 1: women who are dating a man with children, they tend

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Speaker 1: to kind of become overly responsible. But in the actuality,

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Speaker 1: you know, the responsibility still lies with dead. They're there

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Speaker 1: to see their death and to allow you know, those

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Speaker 1: opportunities to happen for a long time with you know,

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Speaker 1: the children and their father, and to make sure that's happening.

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Speaker 1: And then to also think about if you are comfortable

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Speaker 1: being left alone with them early in the relationship, because

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Speaker 1: that occurs too kind of like, Okay, they're visitors here,

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Speaker 1: I'm believing, but to keep in mind, Okay, the ultimate

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Speaker 1: responsibility is with my partner. They're not here to visit me,

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Speaker 1: and to make sure you communicate that to your partner.

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Speaker 1: If you're more comfortable with family time as opposed to

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Speaker 1: one on one time with the children, you know very

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Speaker 1: early on, right, So, Shelly, you have again might want

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Speaker 1: to stop because I think it's so important that you

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Speaker 1: talked about this idea of the symbolic grief, because I

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Speaker 1: do think I've heard women struggle with this idea right

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Speaker 1: like that I'm not going to give them their first child,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know, like you said, in the excitement

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Speaker 1: of a new relationship, that is probably not something that

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about, right, But as the relationship maybe progresses,

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Speaker 1: that may be something that settles in that you have

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Speaker 1: not anticipated feeling. So really trying to do as much

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Speaker 1: thinking beginning side. It seems like it's really helpful so

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Speaker 1: that you can have conversations about these things. Yeah, definitely,

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Speaker 1: and then once you know you decide that this is

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Speaker 1: something that you want to pursue. Is having a good

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Speaker 1: support system and reaching out to other women who have

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Speaker 1: the same experience, because sometimes what happens is, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to just say women, but people who date a

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Speaker 1: partner with children. But for the most part, I found

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Speaker 1: that women are step moms or step girlfriends, whatever you

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Speaker 1: like to call them, they struggle more than step dads.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's because more responsibility is put on

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Speaker 1: them in the relationship. It's a different expectation of what

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Speaker 1: a man is supposed to do in relation to children

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Speaker 1: and what a woman is supposed to do in relation

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Speaker 1: to children, or what society tells us each of them

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00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: are supposed to be doing. So for step moms, they,

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Speaker 1: you know, struggle a lot with how much do I do?

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Speaker 1: How much? UM should I pull back? Am I allowed

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Speaker 1: to say this? Am I allowed to correct? You know?

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Speaker 1: How much? Am I evolved? Do I go to PTA

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Speaker 1: meetings or too I hang back? You know, like what

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Speaker 1: am I supposed to do? And it's a lot of confusion,

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Speaker 1: And like you said, the symbolic grief part that comes

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Speaker 1: up quite a bit, especially if their partner has more

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00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 1: than one child, and they kind of feel like, oh well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody is excited, but the partner usually

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Speaker 1: is excited. And I've heard some really great single and

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Speaker 1: divorced dads as well as mom kind of reassure and say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you haven't given me my first child, but

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Speaker 1: this is my first child with you, and that seems

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Speaker 1: to really be helpful to kind of ease that anxiety

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Speaker 1: about not being it's like the loss of first so

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00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: to speak. This is not your first marriage, sometime not

386
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Speaker 1: your first child, but it's the first time they are

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00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: having these experiences with you, because each relationship is different

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00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: and unique in its own right. So, Shelly, do you

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00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: do because it seems like, like we said before, like

390
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: it seems like there's a lot of conversations that need

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00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: to happen when you're talking about, you know, developing this

392
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: new family unit, and conversations about, like you said, how

393
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: often or how much are you involved? Are you going

394
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,479
Speaker 1: to be doing pick up and drop off at school?

395
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,239
Speaker 1: What are the rules around discipline? Like what are some

396
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: of the things, and how might you suggest people have

397
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: this conversation so that they can get on the same

398
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: page around some of these really important topics. I recommend

399
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking with your partner individually, one on

400
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: one because going back to the boundary thing, sometimes there's

401
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: a tendency to kind of, oh, let's have the kids

402
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: involved in all conversations, but we have to keep in

403
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: mind all discussions are not age appropriate for children, and

404
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: some discussions need to be heavy between the couple and

405
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: the couple alone. All right, commend for step parents. Um

406
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: to journal. I'm really big on journaling, and we kind

407
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: of process what are you comfortable doing and what are

408
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: you not comfortable doing? Because it's okay to be a

409
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: a dad, a step dad and not be comfortable with this,

410
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: and that's okay that you you don't aren't okay with that,

411
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: and that it makes you uncomfortable and you prefer that

412
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,239
Speaker 1: your girlfriend or wife take on that role. And I

413
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: just want to be clear, Um, I know I'm using

414
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: like a girlfriend or wife, but I also you know,

415
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: definitely include step families who are from the lgbt Q

416
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: plus community, so you know, to include them in the

417
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: conversation so that you know that your partner understands what

418
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: you're comfortable with. But you have to kind of explore

419
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: that for yourself first and to journal those things as

420
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,239
Speaker 1: they come up, like I really don't want to do

421
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: this piece, or I'm more comfortable, you know, talking to

422
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: my step daters about you know, the birds and the bees,

423
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: because maybe my partner is not comfortable with that part

424
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: of it. And I would like to have an active

425
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: role taking them to cheer leading practice, for example, but

426
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable with making them do their chores. I would

427
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: rather have your backup on that. And that's actually according

428
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: to the research, is recommended that the biological parent take

429
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: on the majority of the parenting role in the beginning,

430
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: and that may last for a couple of years. That

431
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: you know, single and divorced parents want to keep in

432
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: mind that you may do be doing the heavy lifting

433
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: in the beginning, because which you don't want to set

434
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: up is that if the step parent becomes disciplinarian instead

435
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: of being you know, the fun parent or the good

436
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: cops so to speak, or the one who is kind

437
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: of engages in lightweight activities, if you don't allow them

438
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: that space to do that, what happens is they will

439
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: take on the evil stepparent role if they are always

440
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 1: cast in the role of the disciplinary. And so, because

441
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: of attachment, you and your children, your biological children automatically

442
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: have that bond together. And so the relationship between biological

443
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: parent and child can withstand you know, discipline or setting

444
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: limits whatever that you know looks like in your household,

445
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: but the relationship between the child and the step parent,

446
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: it can't really withstand that yet until there's you know,

447
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: some trust build up and some alliance is built up

448
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: where the child knows that the step parent is safe

449
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: and they have their back, and also for the parent

450
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: to know that, because we want to draw a distinction

451
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: between a step parent who's struggling and a step parent

452
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: who is abusive, because that's important to look out for

453
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: and to you know, protect your children against that aspect

454
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: as well. But to answer your question, I was would say,

455
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: to get clear for yourself as a step parent what

456
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: and to define your own role and to talk with

457
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: your partner about what's okay for you and what makes

458
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: you uncomfortable, right, And it seems like there would be

459
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: of course, a lot of feelings that come up, and

460
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: I know you're this excellent blog post for us Shelly

461
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: on the Therapy for Black Girls website about how to

462
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: take care of yourself as a step mom, because I

463
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: think it can be really easy for your feelings almost

464
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: to be lost, right, Like we are trying to pay

465
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: attention to the kids. We're trying to make sure you

466
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: know that I'm not seen as evil cop. You know,

467
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 1: like it feels like there's a lot of energy that

468
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: is going into maintaining like several other aspects of the

469
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: family where it may be really easy for you to

470
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: be forgotten. So what are some of the tips sort

471
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: of suggestions you would have for people who are specifically

472
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: stepping into this step mom role or maybe already in

473
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: this role about how they can continue to make sure

474
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: they're taking care of themselves and prioritizing themselves those Yeah,

475
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: that's very, very important to utilize good self care. I

476
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: would say one of the things is to journal definitely,

477
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: and to really find a good support system because I

478
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: think I started to go down this track at the beginning,

479
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: but I kind of swwitched gears. But sometimes when step

480
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: parents try to, you know, just vent about what's going

481
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: on and the difficulties of the situation, they may be

482
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: met with Oh, you shouldn't say that, or that's so horrible,

483
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: how how dare you feel that way? And so it's

484
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: important this may come from their own friends and family,

485
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: and so it's important to reach out to two resources

486
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: where there are other women or other you know, stepdads,

487
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: if any men are listening to this to reach out

488
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: to other a sense of community, because you need to

489
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: have those people to talk to and to get feedback

490
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: from and to normalize invalidate your experience. And I would say,

491
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: for me, I really like to stress. I know, when

492
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: we talk about self care, you know, sometimes we talk

493
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: about massages and pedicures, which are great, But for me,

494
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: I think a really big form of self care is

495
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: assertiveness and boundaries and being able to prioritize what's important

496
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: for you and what can be delegated so that you

497
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: don't burn out and feel overwhelmed, and what may need

498
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: to be you know, placed back on the plate of

499
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: your partner so that you aren't feeling just drained. And

500
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: so it's important to spend time with your friends, the

501
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: friends you had before you know, you entered into this relationship,

502
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: to make sure that you are doing things that bring

503
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: you joy and that you're able to kind of reconnect

504
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: with who you are. Because there's a really big thing

505
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: that happens sometimes with self image is that because the

506
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: situation may be difficult with either the X or with

507
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: their new step children, some people take on feeling like

508
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: they are evil or they are bad because they're struggling,

509
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 1: and so to be careful, to be mindful of the

510
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: self image that you're truck starting to develop, and to

511
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: keep track of that and make sure that you're doing

512
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: things that recharge your battery. I know, um when I

513
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: work with families, I use a multidimensional approach in that

514
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: I also have a conversation with my stepparents about their

515
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: temperament and whether or not they lean toward extroversion or introversion.

516
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: And I think that's important regarding self care because sometimes

517
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: introverts need to hibernate a bit and they need more

518
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: a long time than an extrovert, and to be mindful

519
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: of that in the way that they schedule things, what

520
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: they say no to and get in cough Pooble was

521
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: saying no to certain things, and that's where the assertiveness

522
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: comes up. And so I think that's really important to

523
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: know yourself and to set limits on what you're capable of,

524
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: as well as paying attention to what is rejuvenating for

525
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: you and what is draining, and to take those barks

526
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: that you need. I think that's something else that often

527
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: comes up Shelley, is you know of course, not all

528
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: relationships last, right, And so when you become a step mom,

529
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: or you know, you're engaged or heavily dating a partner

530
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: who has a child, and then that relationship ends, and

531
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: what happens, you know, like after you've become close to

532
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: this child, right, And so I'm wondering if you have

533
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: any ideas about that, like how you navigate having a

534
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: relationship with a child who you were close with but

535
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: you really legally, of course, have no ties to your Yeah,

536
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: I say a big one that does come up sometime,

537
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: because there is a box that's created when you've been

538
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: around this child. You help, you know, give in wood

539
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: and help raise them, and the two of you do

540
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: become close and a relationship is established. That's not all relationships,

541
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: but for the ones that do become close, that's another

542
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: loss because, like I was saying, that child has gotten

543
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: attached to you on some level. And now, like you said,

544
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: there's no legal right for step parents once there is

545
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: a breakup, unless one of the one or both of

546
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: the parents has passed on or some arrangement like that.

547
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: For the most part, when a breakup happens between a

548
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: biological parent and a step parent, there really is no

549
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: more meeting up, there's no more hanging out. I've heard

550
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: of rare instances where a step parent will continue, but

551
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: I definitely encourage step parents who want to reach out

552
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: to talk to their ex as well as their partners

553
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,239
Speaker 1: x about how they feel about that, because ultimately, this

554
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: is their their biological child and they have the ultimate

555
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: say and if they want to allow you to continue,

556
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: but that will be you know, some grief work around

557
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: missing this child as well as the child will miss

558
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: their stepparents. And sometime in the case of when the

559
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 1: non custodial parent is not involved, sometimes the other stepparents,

560
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: even if there's a break up, will continue in the

561
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: child's life, because I know some instances where maybe a

562
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: child has a stepfather and he will continue to be

563
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: in her life if her biological father is not in

564
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: her life. So sometimes those things happen, but it can

565
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: be really hard on both of them and to you know,

566
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: easier child into those transitions, and definitely or single and

567
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: divorced parents to talk to the child about it, not

568
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: just trying to sweep it under the rug, because this

569
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: is a connection that was lost for them and it's hurtful.

570
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: And it's okay to acknowledge the child's feelings and to

571
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: validate that they missed this person. So something else that

572
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: we miss, Shelley, that I do want to make sure

573
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: that we go back to you because you talked about

574
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: in the beginning. One of the other challenges that can

575
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: be present when we're talking about a step family dynamic

576
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: is the idea of finances. And I think a lot

577
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: of people maybe don't know this on the front end,

578
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: but when you join into a family that where a

579
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: child is already present and you're talking about like child

580
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: support calculations, if correct, your salary does also go into

581
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: making those calculations, like once you become you know, legally

582
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: partnered to this person. Correct, But it does. It depends

583
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: on what state you're in. I don't know you know

584
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: the laws for each state, but it can be calculating.

585
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: And I know in the past it was kind of

586
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: like it had to happen, so to speak, like it

587
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 1: was just you know, determined that, Okay, if you're part

588
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: of this family, this is what has to happen. But

589
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: going forward word, there's been a lot of changes in

590
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: regard to that, and sometimes it's not calculating. It just

591
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: depends on the situation. It depends on what each parent

592
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: is making and how long the gap was between the

593
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: person who was not receiving support so to speak, financially,

594
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: and so it's a lot of factors. But I would

595
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: say ultimately to you know, for those questions, I would

596
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: definitely I know this sounds really like a lot of

597
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: leg work to do for a person who's dating, but

598
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: I would definitely if that's a concern. I encourage families

599
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: that I work with to talk to a family law

600
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: attorney and just to ask that question, would I be

601
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: bound legally? What does that look like? Because in certain

602
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: cases that that would be a requirement. Yeah. I think

603
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: you're right, Shelley. Ready may seem like a lot to do,

604
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: but I do think it's important to kind of pay

605
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: attention and you know, to kind of be fully aware, uh,

606
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: you know, the decisions you may be making entering into

607
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: a partnership, Like you just want to have all of

608
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: the information, I think, right. Yeah, So what are some

609
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: of your favorite resources, Shelley, What are some of the

610
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: books or podcasts or videos that you find yourself recommending frequently.

611
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: I would say one that I recommend a lot, it's

612
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: called step Monster and her name is Wednesday Martin, and

613
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 1: she talks about the experience of step moms and the

614
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: there's a high instance of depression with step moms and

615
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: what they experience and kind of the whole evil step

616
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: mom trope and what they go through, and she does

617
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: a really good job of breaking that down. So I

618
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: recommend that quite a bit. I also recommend in the

619
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: case of breakups and pertaining to the child, there is

620
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: a book called The Invisible Strength and it's a children's

621
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: book and it's about all types of loss and the

622
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: idea that you know, just because you can't see someone

623
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: physically every day, that that doesn't mean that you don't

624
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: still have a connection. So I really like that book.

625
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: And there's another one regarding divorce is called I Want

626
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 1: to Say My Two Homes. That's another good one for children.

627
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: And then I would say to definitely pick up what

628
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: is this step Mom magazine? I know it's geared more

629
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: towards UH women, but I think men could benefit from

630
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: it as well. And it has a lot of great articles.

631
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 1: Um I've written some articles from them, so I would

632
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 1: say those are really great resources. And where can people

633
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: find out more information about you? Shelly, what is your

634
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: website as well as any social media handles you want

635
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: to share? Oh yeah, my um website is www dot

636
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: my Counseling Clinic dot com and I also have a

637
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: blog on them related to step parenting as well as

638
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: women of color, so you can check that out. My

639
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,439
Speaker 1: social media handles are at my Counseling Clinic and that's

640
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: on Facebook as well as Instagram. And in the early fall,

641
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: I'll be coming out with a book related to this

642
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: topic and some tips and tools to use when you're

643
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 1: dating someone who has children. And then in in September,

644
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: I'll be talking at the Diversity in Parenting Perfect we

645
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: We will be sure to include all of that in

646
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: the show notes so that people can find it really easily.

647
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing with us today, Shelly.

648
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate this opportunity to thank you. I'm so grateful

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Speaker 1: Shelly was able to share her expertise with us today.

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Speaker 1: To learn more about her and her practice and the

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Speaker 1: resources that she shared, visit the show notes at Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash Session one. If you

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00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 1: love this conversation, go ahead and text two of your

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Speaker 1: friends and tell them to listen, and be sure to

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Speaker 1: share your takeaways with us in your I G Stories

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Speaker 1: or on Twitter using the hashtag TBG in session. If

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Speaker 1: you're searching for a therapist in your area, check out

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00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: our directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory.

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00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: And if you want to continue this conversation with other

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Speaker 1: sisters who listen to the podcast, come on over and

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Speaker 1: join us in the Thrive Tribe, which is the Facebook

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Speaker 1: group for our podcast. You can request to join at

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Tribe and be

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Speaker 1: sure to answer the three questions that are asked to

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00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: gain injury. Don't forget to visit our online store at

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00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop, where you

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00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: can find our guided affirmation track, break up journal, and

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Speaker 1: your favorite Therapy for Black Girls t shirts and mugs.

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Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.

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Speaker 1: I look forward to continue in this conversation with you

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Speaker 1: all real soon. Take it care can break break wood