1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,239 Speaker 1: Garrison. Is that good? Isn't the show? No? Let's keep 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: going though, Okay, well it could happen. Here is the 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: show that A tonal noise is my introduction this week 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: because I'm a hack in a fraud. Who isn't a 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: hack in a fraud? Is is our guest this week? 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: St Andrew. St Andrew, you are a solar punk anarchist 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: from Trinidad. Um. You have a YouTube channel, UM where 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: you talk about solar punk. Um, you talk about stuff 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: like seed bombing. Yeah. I'm just very excited to have 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: you on the show because I'm a big fan of 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: your YouTube channel. Thank you, glad to be here, big 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: fan of your work as well. Andrew, I kind of 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: wanted to start with why this white solar punk is important, because, UM, 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: I think it's easy for folks who just kind of 15 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: skim it to see it. It's just like, oh, it's 16 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: an aesthetic. It's maybe an art style or a fiction style. UM. 17 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: Maybe something that's neat, but not something that has like 18 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: a lot of inherent value to people trying to change 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: the world. And obviously you disagree with that. I disagree 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: with it to um A quote I keep coming back 21 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: to again and again is one from Werner Herzog in 22 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies and it was something along the lines 23 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: of I think that without better myths, were destined to 24 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: go the way of the dinosaurs. Um. Actually of I 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: forget his name right now, But there's this excellent, excellent 26 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: book called The Truth About Stories, and I think what 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: it really emphasizes throughout the book is the importance of 28 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: stories on how stories impact how we navigate the woot, 29 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: which is why I sort of embraced Sula punk, you know, 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: as a story that we can work with going forward. Yeah, 31 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: I think, Um, I think it's incredibly important to have 32 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: better stories, better myths because for one thing, I think 33 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: where the Left falls down a lot is not having 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: is accurately diagnosing the problems without providing a better look 35 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: at at this at the future, you know, um. And 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: when the problems are when the people who do kind 37 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: of propose solutions, it's often um not in a way 38 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: people can feel. One of the benefits that that that 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: the right has, that fascism has, is that they they're 40 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: very good at providing people with myths and providing people 41 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: with kind of a fictional look at at their idealized world. 42 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: That draws people in. You know, you can laugh at 43 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: the right you know, the people that work on like 44 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: meta narratives, and that's very, very core to their ideology. Um, So, 45 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: I guess where I'd like to start with you, Andrew, 46 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: because this is kind of the first time I think 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: we've really talked about solar punk on on this show, 48 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: even though from the beginning before any of these episodes dropped, 49 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: this was always a central part of our discussion about 50 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: what the show was was going to be. Um, would 51 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: you kind of provide an introduction to to what solar 52 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: punk is for our listeners? Sure? Sure, So I would 53 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: say that solar punk is the vision of the future 54 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 1: that place this emphasis on the existing world and how 55 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: we get to that future from where we are now. 56 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: So it emphasizes the need for environmental sustainability, for self governance, 57 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: and for autonomy and social justice. It emphasizes the need 58 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: for you know, human and ecocentric ends to really be 59 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: in sync, and it aims to really heal the current 60 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: rift between humanity and nature. It also recognizes, of course, 61 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: that there isn't this binary between climate change happens and 62 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: climate change doesn't happen. Rather, it understands that how we 63 00:03:54,200 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: navigate it will have a variety of consequences and some 64 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: of the positive, some of the negative, but it's up 65 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: to us to really shape that. Yeah, and it's um. 66 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: I want to drill into a couple of facets of that. 67 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: But I want to quickly plug one of your YouTube 68 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: videos for folks who kind of want a more involved 69 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: um explanation and background. You have a video called what 70 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: is solar Punk on your channel st Andrewism like Andrew 71 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: I s m um that I think is a fantastic 72 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: introduction not just to like the aesthetics of solar punk, 73 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: but some of the practical some of the practical kind 74 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: of expressions of it. And and two of the ones 75 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: you list is like examples of here's here's what this 76 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: is is like actual practis you know, and not just 77 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: an aesthetic is seed bombing um. And then you talk 78 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: about this this very interesting kind of like terra Cotta 79 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: air conditioning, which I think is I think it's neat 80 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: because it's it's one of the problems that I think 81 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: with kind of some versions of of particularly kind of 82 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: on the more liberal end of of of solar punk 83 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: imag engining is just sort of like ways of replacing um, 84 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: ways of gaining the same kind of consumptive benefits that exist. 85 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: I guess not even not even like greenwashing, right washing, greenwashing, 86 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: Like here, let's get the same consumptive benefits we get scrapers, yes, skyscrapers, 87 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: the same level of consumerism, same level of you know, 88 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: destructive extractive practices. But we have some flowers and some trees. 89 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, and that's not enough. But at the same time, 90 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: there are things that aren't. Like air conditioning is contributes 91 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: massively to climate change. It's also not a luxury. Like 92 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: if you live in a place where it's a hundred 93 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: and twenty degrees a lot of the summer, that's not 94 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: a luxury. Yeah, this is going from someone in a 95 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: tropical country. Yeah, um, definitely a necessity. Yeah, So I 96 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: wonder if you could talk about kind of those two 97 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: I mean, or if you have different ones you'd like 98 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: to pick, but just kind of what you see is 99 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: sort of the practice expressions of solar punk, sort of 100 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: beyond the aesthetic, although we're going to drill nder the 101 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: esthetics some too, because I also think that's important. Right, So, 102 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: I think some of my favorite manifestations of suli punk. 103 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: In a practical context, things like um gorilla gardening. Grilla 104 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: gardening is probably the biggest one because it's one that 105 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: someone could literally pick up and do today or tomorrow, 106 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, as soon as they hear about it, doing 107 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: about it. Just get some clay, get some seeds, you know, 108 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: and put those things together, and as you're walking home 109 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: or walking to the store, just toss them wherever there's 110 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: some free dud UM. So that's a fun one. There's also, 111 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: of course, things like a little bit one involved, like 112 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: community gardening and particularly forest gardening, because that will provide 113 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: a level of food autonomy and agency for people who 114 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: have been eling it for a long time from the 115 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: process of food production. UM. They're also practices like compassing 116 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: or corpaching, and it's like a way to produce lumber 117 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: without chopping down a whole side of trees, so you 118 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: are able to get the wood from the trees, but 119 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: the tree remains alive. UM. There's also things like, of 120 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: course solar powered technology, whether it be algae based UM 121 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: windows that you know, extract energy from the sun, or 122 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: solar sales or solar ovens uh or like the terra cotta, 123 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: the air conditioning, which, by the way I learned recently 124 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: can't really work in a human environment. But yeah, there 125 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: are a lot of different opportunities. They also there are 126 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: things like you know, tool shares and maker spaces and 127 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: seed libraries, all different ways to sort of bring it 128 00:07:55,080 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: into fruition. So that is yeah, and I uh, I 129 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: think a lot of that's really valuable. UM. I'm interested 130 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: in in parts sort of your your attitude on UM 131 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: what uh let me think about how to phrase this, UM, 132 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: what do you think are kind of the things as 133 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: we talk about sort of the things that can be 134 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: at least potentially replaced UM with with less extract of 135 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: less consumptive methods. Is sort of an example of solar 136 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: punk practice is replacing those things. There's also things that 137 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: we're not going to be able to have if we 138 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: actually want to live in a more sustainable UM future 139 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: that that doesn't contribute to some of the nightmares that 140 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: we're all going to be increasingly facing. UM. You're you know, 141 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: and again I think it's it's telling that so much 142 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: of kind of the future fantasies of that are written 143 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: by people who come from you know, my part of 144 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: the world. United States focus on like kind of post 145 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: scarcity methods of of guaranteeing the continuation of consumption just 146 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: through in some cases like fantastic methods um, you know, 147 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: magical three D printers and the like. Um. You come 148 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: from a very different part of the world, very different perspective. 149 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: What do you see is the things that like we're 150 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: going to have to give up. Coming from a country 151 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: that is actually reliant on oil and natural gas production, 152 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: we have to get rid of cause We definitely absolutely 153 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: have to get rid of cause um free to ships 154 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: as well, and really the whole way that you know, 155 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: global supply chains are structured right now, not to say 156 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: that they won't be any sort of global um sharing 157 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: of resources in the future, but the way that it's 158 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: happening right now, it can't continue to go on. We 159 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: can't continue to structure cities in our lives around cause 160 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: and other methods of gascars in transportation because we're literally 161 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: going to run out. And we've known this for a 162 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: long time, but it's nearing that the day is nearing 163 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: CLUISA and CLUISO and yeah, we have to find a 164 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: way to do without it. Yeah, and it's it's I 165 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: think tell like there's a couple of things that are important. 166 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: One of them is you can't just say we have 167 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: to stop global trade because in global travel, because the 168 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: people have have sought and done that for as long 169 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: as there have been people in one form or another. 170 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: It's it's a fundamentally human thing. But there are aspects 171 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: of it, like you know, expecting that every kind of 172 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: fruit and vegetable will be available year round, which is 173 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: certainly thing that we in the United States expect. Um. 174 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: That doesn't that that's not part of a realistic future. 175 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: Um And if it's part of the future, then it's 176 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: only going to be part of the future for an 177 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: ever shrinking chunk of of the country. And you can 178 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: see that and sort of um or of the of 179 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: the West, and you can see that in kind of 180 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: um the like what we're dealing with right now with 181 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: like the supply line shortages and failures, and like one 182 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: of the I think the symbols of how far we 183 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: have to go in my country is the degree to 184 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: which people are freaking out by the fact that Christmas 185 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: presents might be late. Um. Let alone being like yeah, 186 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: you might not be able to buy coffee, um um ever, 187 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: or all the time, you know, you might not be 188 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: able to get tomatoes in December, which reminds me UM. 189 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: I think one benefits to gorilla gardening, and that's what 190 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: sort of mindset is. As you learn to so you 191 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: also learn to reap. Right, So a lot of people 192 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: who get into grilla gardening altos end up getting into foraging, 193 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: and they are absent stuff you could download that allow 194 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: you to, you know, learn how to identify plants in 195 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: your area, and we surprise a number of plants in 196 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: your area that are you know, useful for tease or 197 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: for salads or for whatever poop is is that can 198 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: be used as replacements. I'm not sure they could replace coffee, 199 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: but they could be beneficial. UM in recognizing how we 200 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: have to live with our local ecosystems. Basically, yeah, and 201 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: a big you know, when you talk about living learning 202 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: how to live with our ecosystem stuff like planting um 203 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: forest gardens and the like um or food forests, I 204 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: think is the term UM. I think something that has 205 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: to be discussed is the matter of indigenous sovereignty, especially 206 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: when we're talking about you know, it's not just you know, 207 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: North America. A lot of chunks of the globe. Indigenous 208 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: people had spent you know, in some cases thousands of 209 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: generations setting forests up in order to sustainably produce food. Um. 210 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: And when when colonialism arrived, that was often just seen 211 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: as like, oh, this is this is these are wild 212 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: places for us too, for us to extract or tear 213 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: down and replace with mono cultures, you know, single crops. Um. 214 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: And so a big part of actually building back that capacity, 215 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: the capacity of us to to survive off of the 216 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: food that can sustainably grow where we live is looking 217 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: back to those indigenous methods and and also um, you know, 218 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: giving back land in a lot of cases um And yeah, 219 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: that's something you talk about in your videos that I 220 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: think is really important to um to to to to 221 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: explain to people. Yeah, I mean there's there's really is 222 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: no way to separate the violence and oppressive institution of 223 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: clunealism with the equosido Nietzsche of modern steeds. You know, 224 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: those two are deeply intertwined, deeply married together. And so 225 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: you can't fight climate change without addressing the issue of sverenity, 226 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: of indigenous serenity on land back. Yeah, it's m it's 227 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: really interesting. I've been I've been up hunting on Mountain 228 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: Hood with a friend who is who went to school 229 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: for like forestry management, and as we were driving, we 230 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: had to drive through a chunk of the reservation in 231 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: order to get to the blm land where we're able 232 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: to hunt, and he pointed it out, and once he did, 233 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: it was immediately obvious just how different the land under 234 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: indigenous control looked from the land, you know, just feed 235 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: away that was being managed by the federal government in 236 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: terms of like how much better the forest management was, 237 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: how much how much smarter it was it was managed 238 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: in order to um reduce the chances of like a 239 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: ladder fire that that actually kills you know, the trees 240 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: and whatnot. There's this whole thing blowing up on Twitter 241 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: right now where you've got a chunk of Marxists who 242 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: are are trying to frame land back as uh just 243 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: like shifting ownership of resources, which I think is really missing. 244 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: The point I find interesting about Twitter is the exact 245 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: same discourses are repeated over and over and over again. 246 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: So I remember this exact conversation happening around this time 247 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: last year, around April last year, um earlier this year 248 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: as well. It's just the same discourses get recycled over 249 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: and over again, and it's reached a point for me, 250 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: who I realized that these people don't want to learn 251 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: about land back what it really means, because they are 252 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: invested in the structure as it exists and they don't 253 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: want to have to interrogate that. So, Yeah, that's fellow 254 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: to be an interesting thing, I've note. Yeah, and it's um, 255 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: it's it's it's frustrating. UM. I guess that that acts 256 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: as like a general uh description of Twitter discourse, but 257 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: certainly doesn't. Yeah, I think it's I think it's telling 258 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: the degree to which people, even on the left tree 259 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: eat it as a fantasy as opposed to dogged lye 260 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: pragmatic um and and proven so like proven by like 261 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: like you know, like you can read you in reports 262 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: that will that will essentially say land back in the 263 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: space of a five page, you know, study on how 264 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: indigenous land management functions a great deal better than UM 265 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: than a lot of the stuff that's like centralized by 266 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: the federal government, where we're like, our federal government is 267 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: terrible at land management. UM, And it's part of the 268 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: it's part of the problem. I think one of the 269 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: things that that excites me about solar punk as an 270 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: aesthetic and idea is getting back to this relationship with 271 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: the land as opposed to talking about just preserving it 272 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: um as talking about managing it. Because because none of 273 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: our none of the land that people live on is 274 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: like wild in the sense they mean it as it's 275 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: been cultivated. That's the thing, right. The whole philosophy of 276 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: you know, um land preservation as was taken up by 277 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: the US government with the whole um you know, you 278 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: can stop forest fires kind of thing, ended up leading 279 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: to more forest fires online because they we have a 280 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: rule in the ecosystem, not just they had to stand 281 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: back from a file to subserve it. So we doin't 282 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: do our part to manage the underbrush and whatnots and 283 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: clear to we and exercise you know, controlled fires, but 284 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: we end up in the situation we're in today. You know, 285 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: cultivation not just sterile preservation. Now one of the things 286 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: that you talk about well because because one of the 287 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: more frustrating discourses this is not just a Twitter thing, 288 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: this has been going on for years, is the discourse 289 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: around GMO crops. And usually I would say like the 290 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: two most commonly heard sides, are GMOs are bad because 291 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: you know mon santo cancer whatever, or GMOs are good 292 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: um in in thought, um, And the thing that you 293 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: point out, which is I think the accurate take is GMOs. 294 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: The preponderance of evidence says that, like, there's nothing inherently 295 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: dangerous about genetically modified crops, but the way in which 296 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: they're often used in order to create these massive mono 297 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: cultures is really toxic. So there's a lot of promise 298 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: um for GMOs in terms of keeping our our existence 299 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: on this planet sustainable. But what's not sustainable is the 300 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: kind of industrialized agriculture where you have ten thousand acres 301 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: of one thing which just doesn't happen in nature exactly exactly. 302 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: And if you look at how genetic modification took place 303 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: prior to you know, all advanced funds in genetic modification technology. UM, 304 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: I'm not how many people are familiar with the dozens 305 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: of one dozens, if not hundreds of varieties of just 306 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: corn they were present in the Americas prior to Coltonization. 307 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: A lot of those varieties were wiped out or was 308 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: suppressed in fear of these monocultures. But if we able 309 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: to culture to divusity of these crops and really bring 310 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: some of them back through Jessic modification. That would really 311 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,959 Speaker 1: help us with you know, food resilience in a world 312 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: with an increasingly unpredictable climate. Yeah, yeah, I think that. 313 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you said it perfectly. I want 314 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: to move back to kind of what I introduced the 315 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: episode with, which is talking about the value of of 316 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: fiction and myth making in a in a very pragmatic sense. 317 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: I guess I'll start by saying, I think one of 318 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: the clearest signs of the danger that we're in and 319 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: how toxic our society has gotten. Um And I am 320 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: speaking from a primarily US centric standpoint here, but I 321 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: don't think it's unique to the United States. Is the 322 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: extent to which trust me um as as the saying goes, 323 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: when the U s sneel. So anytime there's some phenomenon 324 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: happened in the US, there are the coffee cuts. And 325 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: I do think this is pretty global. I mean, you 326 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: see it in like South Korean films and and know 327 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 1: what you're gonna say, Yeah, the obsession with apocalypse and 328 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: when we when we go to the future, it's always 329 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: a dystopia. Um, there's a degree to which we've almost 330 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: forgotten how to imagine utopia or even not just utopia, 331 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: just a way of living that is an improvement in 332 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: a lot of ways of future that's better. We've forgotten 333 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: to do both utopian fiction and any just kind of 334 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: like positive fiction in a lot of ways. Because, yeah, 335 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,239 Speaker 1: it's understandable because the world is kind of terrible right 336 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: now in a lot of in a lot of ways. 337 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: But there's also there's been utopian fiction inside other terrible 338 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: worlds as well. I think just the modern interconnected media 339 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: sphere has really rewarded this type of like dystopian and 340 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: collapse based apocalypse fiction. Yeah, and I'm sure that's that's 341 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: worth interrogating. Why. But it is a problem that needs 342 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: to be solved. Yeah, and it is, And and you're 343 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: I think it's important. It's not entirely based in how 344 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: fucked up things are, because like when the first Star 345 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,239 Speaker 1: Trek came out, we were at like the height of 346 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: the Cold War. Things were terrible. There was a lot 347 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: of utopian fiction during World War Two. During World War two, UM, 348 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: I will always be impressed by the fact that Gene 349 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: Roddenberry saw it as incredibly important both to be like, Okay, well, 350 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: in the future, like in the middle of the Civil 351 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: rights movement, in the future, we will have overcome like racism, 352 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: but not just that, but like I'm gonna I'm gonna 353 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: stick a Russian on the bridge too, because nations are 354 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: going to end as a concept and like this stuff 355 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: won't matter. Um, and that just that kind of utopian fiction, 356 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: at least at this at the scale of popularity that 357 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: you know, Star Trek wasn't its time just isn't present anymore. 358 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: And I that's tremendously worrying to me. And I see 359 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: a lot of hope in in Solar Punk for that. Um, 360 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: I guess for star As I'm interested in in your 361 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: thoughts on this, and you're interested in Andrew, what you 362 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: think is like the pragmatic value of of of positive 363 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: a fiction that that that imagines a better world. Yes, 364 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: so I've done probably I think I've done like two 365 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: videos on Sola Punk so far. M two major videos 366 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: on Soil the Punk, as well as a smaller video 367 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: two other smaller videos. Um. And what I've seen in 368 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: the comments and in the general social media reaction again 369 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: and again is sol the Punk saved my life, you know, 370 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: sola punk has given me hoop. You know, I was 371 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: slipping into the spair, but this video really gave me 372 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: a jump start to try something new and to start 373 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: to fresh and to pursue action as opposed to suggest 374 00:22:54,560 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: laying down and taking whatever comes next and that that 375 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: is it for me. You know, I think the fact 376 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: that sulla punk offers like an energizing vision. It's not 377 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: just a vision, it's an energizing vision because in every 378 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: step with the way it shows what you can do. 379 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: You know, when you show when you look at sula 380 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: punk art or um, you look at the small but 381 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: growing genre of sula punk literary media, or you know, 382 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: you look at but there's don't have many slipunk video 383 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: games right now, but hopefully there will be in the future. 384 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: When you look at the various forms of sila punk 385 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: media that are coming out and people's responses to them, 386 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: you see that it's not like as all mentioning like 387 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: star Trek, where it's all this far out technology that 388 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: we can only aspire to for now. You know, suli 389 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: punk is something that you can literally put in your 390 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 1: backyard or your bad canny, or your home, or your 391 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: school or your community. You know, you could put these 392 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: things in place like from now, you know, and you 393 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: can incorporate it into your politics as you know, as 394 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: they are, and they could also help to push your 395 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: politics forward, you know, because through solo punk, we could 396 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: open up discussions about, Okay, so how do we ensure 397 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: that people live comfortably within the parameters of you know, 398 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: the Earth's carrying capacity? You know, you open up a 399 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: discussions about indigenous soevereignty, you discussions about, um, the relationship 400 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: between the Google North and the global South, and responsibility 401 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: with regard to our response to climate change. Well, you 402 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: open up a lot of different discussions through the realm 403 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: of soulo punk. It energizes people, as I said, and yeah, 404 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: I think that is its paramatic purpose. It doesn't stand alone, 405 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: of course, but it is a driving force. Yeah. Would 406 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: you kind of give out a list of if people 407 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: are you know, if this is someone's first introduction to 408 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: the concept of solar punk, what is some reading you 409 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: want to draw people towards. What are some fiction like 410 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: I know you mentioned The Dispossessed by Laguin right, um, 411 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: which often gets cited. Um, yeah, I'm interested in kind 412 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: of other other recommendations you might have for our listeners, 413 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: are that right? So UM. I'm still getting into the 414 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: genre myself, so I don't have too many UM recommendations. 415 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: There are some UM decent short story collections UM like 416 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: sun Vaults by a couple of different authors. There's also 417 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: multi species Cities, so the punk urban futures UM. And 418 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: the one I read most recently was Ecotopia, which is 419 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: quite is much older than all the others. It's actually 420 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: really a book that was published in UM and not 421 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: all aspects of its politics things I agree with, but 422 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: I think for a first UM it was one of 423 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: the really the first of its kind in that sort 424 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: of equal utopian genre that really laid out what the 425 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: society would look like. UM. The book is structured in 426 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: a series of novel entries and notebook reports by a 427 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: journalist from the United States who has gone to this 428 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: country called eco Topia, which is sort of where the 429 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest States are, and he's basically breaking down He's 430 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: going to different parts of the country and breaking down 431 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: how they have lived and how they have decided structure 432 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 1: their lives. UM. And even though not every aspect of 433 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: it is one that I would want to see implemented, 434 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: I still think that it really sparks the imagination, really 435 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: gets you thinking, well, maybe I wouldn't do it this week, 436 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: but how else could this be done? And I think 437 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: the capacity for spunk stories suggest generate that thought and 438 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: generate one's imagination is very useful in a world where 439 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: we don't really get to use our imagination as much, 440 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: not really since childhood, you know. And um, yeah, I uh. 441 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: I think it's often understated the degree to which using 442 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: your imagination is a vitally necessary part of actual radical politics. Um. 443 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot of people who consider 444 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: themselves radicals, you know, some of these some of these 445 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: not to you know, slam every Marxist Leninist on the planet, 446 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: but certainly some of the ones who were coming up 447 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: with these bad faith critics systems of land back. It's like, 448 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: you're not a radical, You're a conservative who wants to 449 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: go back to a different kind of problematic thing. Um. 450 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: It is more the fact that the Soviet Union poisoned 451 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: like the largest body of water in Europe. You know, 452 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: all the different things that the Soviet Union did that 453 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: were horrible for the environment and extractive, and it's interesting 454 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: that you know, they are these people who call themselves radicals, 455 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: but at the very first um encounter with a radical idea, 456 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: their first instinct is to shut down. Their first instinct 457 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: is to just pushed back against it, whereas not to 458 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: toot my own horn or anything. But you know, when 459 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: I see an idea that I haven't encountered before that 460 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: may seem strange to me, that challenges my precontinutions, my 461 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: first reaction is not to shout about how this school 462 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: is against everything then, and said, you know, my first 463 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: reaction is to investigate it and to open space for 464 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: it in my mind, to really, you know, tune it 465 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: around and imagine what it might look like and how 466 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: it might fit with what I have learned about before. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, 467 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: I mean I think that's that's that's great advice for 468 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: radical politics. It's also just good life advice. Yeah, especially 469 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: for engaging with ideas that you are less keen on 470 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: at the moment, or or or just unaware of. H 471 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,719 Speaker 1: I mean, my whole thing is if I have like 472 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: a strong gut reaction to something, it might be because 473 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: it may be hitting a part of me that might 474 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: be benefiting from that system, you know. I mean, I 475 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: don't benefit from the system in a lot of respects, 476 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, as a black guy from the Caribbean, but 477 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: as a man, as in as a sis sis hetman. 478 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: You know, I do have privileges that I must be 479 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: aware of and I can't just like be so quick 480 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: to shut down, you know, something that ain't give me 481 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: a bit uncomfortable. You know. Yeah, I think that's such 482 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: a valuable thing to keep in mind, especially as a 483 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: a more or less sis white guy like a you know, 484 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: a significant number of people listening are if you're uncomfortable 485 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,959 Speaker 1: by a new idea. Is it Is it because the 486 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: idea is bad? Or is because it strikes at an 487 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: area in which you may not even have like thought 488 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: about being privileged, like I'm I'm uncomfortable I have even 489 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: though there's no I have no intellectual argument against it 490 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: with the idea of of ending our use of cars 491 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: as they exist, because I love I love to drive. 492 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: But that's also heavily rooted in in in tremendous privilege 493 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: on my behalf um American culture, and so yeah, and um, 494 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, we we we did talk about that a 495 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: bit in the opening episodes of season two. The idea 496 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: that like a more you know, when we we kind 497 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: of had our little utopian ending, the idea that like, 498 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: well maybe you'd have a car that's communally owned and 499 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: used for certain tasks. But you know, the idea of 500 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: of of car culture as the center of a city 501 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: is um is death. It's just death. When we talked 502 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: about getting past cars, is not to say that like 503 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: people will never use vehicles that move again, Like obviously 504 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: we will. They're necessary for something and all. Going back 505 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: to horse drawn buggies, pink. One of the last things 506 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: on like solar punk kind of tying into the whole 507 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: kind of nature of the shows. I really like to 508 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: enter your point on like how solar punk is like 509 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: an energizing force and I feel like we have very 510 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: few of those on the left and especially on the 511 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: anarchist left. Um, like i've i've, i've, i've I've had 512 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: my decent stint of like anarcho nihilism. And the problem, 513 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: like the problem with that is like it's very easy, 514 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: Like anarch nihilism is one of the easiest ideologies to 515 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: grasp onto because it vlidifies all of your bad feelings. Um, 516 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: But it also it's most of the people who I 517 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: know who are like real into anarchro nihilism. They're generally 518 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: not very happy people because it's kind of it's kind 519 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: of miserable all the time. Um. And sure they like 520 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: scoff at like solar punk is like some like greenwashed 521 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: yogurt commercial, like you know, like utopian thing, but also 522 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: like it's actually lots of solar punk that we've talked about. 523 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: It's like actually about doing specific things, Like it's actually 524 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: like actually going to do something rather than just being 525 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: an insurrecto kid um or just just you know, talking 526 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: about nihilist zignes and books on Twitter for all day. 527 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: And I think one of one of your one of 528 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: my favorite videos of yours is your video on this 529 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: like pology of collapse, um, because I think that's one 530 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: of my favorites as well. It's it's, it's, it's, it's 531 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 1: it's really just like a masterpiece. And how deep you 532 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: get into every different type of collapse thinking, because it's 533 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: not just on the rights, not not not not to 534 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: the left. It's not just whether you're you know more 535 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: you know, anarchist more authoritarian. It's like you get into 536 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: every specific type of thinking that plays into this idea 537 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: around collapse. And I think if I recommend everyone check 538 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: out your channel, especially watching your Solar Point videos, but 539 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: specifically on the topic of collapse. You know, part of 540 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: our show we were trying to kind of be a 541 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: little bit like anti collapse UM. And I think your 542 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: your video really shows the depth of that topic UM 543 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: and how to approach this, because collapse is a feeling, 544 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: like it's a feeling we all have, and it needs 545 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: to be interrogated. And I think your video is just 546 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: a magnificent job interrogating that feeling, right, thank you. I 547 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: can't overemphasize how important that is, because I I one 548 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: of the major failings. There were a number of victory 549 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: for a kind of anarchist thought, particularly within the United 550 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: States during the the insurrection last year. One of its 551 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: tremendous defeats is that it has become characterized in a 552 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: huge number of people's eyes as breaking windows and and 553 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: starting fires um. And yeah, that's a lot of that 554 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: is because the media is trash, um, and it's trash 555 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: it reporting on on all of this stuff. But some 556 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: of it is because a lot of people have let 557 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: that be their primary praxis UM. And that again, I 558 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 1: don't care about people breaking windows I don't care about 559 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: people lighting dumpster fires, but if that's what you're presenting 560 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: to the world as your practice, that doesn't appeal to people. 561 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: And you have to um, because yeah, anarchism is not 562 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: just destructive, it is also constructive. It's the constructive part. 563 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,479 Speaker 1: We need to be boosting more than that. And there 564 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 1: were some, you know, from the con next to Portland's 565 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: some really strong examples of that last year. The incredible 566 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: amount of mutual aid that was was put together of time. Yeah, 567 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: during the fire relief was was incredible. UM. And the 568 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: Red House, the the eviction defense occupation was a really 569 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 1: good repost to you know, the disaster that was the 570 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: Chaz in Seattle. That this was like, this was an 571 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: area that was temporarily autonomous from the police, that did 572 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: not collapse into violence, that succeeded in its goal, and 573 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: that cleaned up after itself and presented an option for 574 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: people like this is how it can look when we 575 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: try to evict people. You know, this is what can happen. UM. 576 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: So I think they're I don't want to like be 577 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: too negative, but I think that a lot of folks 578 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: because of for a variety of reasons. You know, the 579 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: there's been so much focus on kind of the insurrection, 580 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: not even that, because I think that building can be insurrectionist. 581 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: I think the seed bombing, guerrilla garden it can be 582 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: profoundly insurrectionists. It's like, um, destruction has an am it 583 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: result of making you feel better, right, it has an 584 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: immediate of it endorphins and hormones. It makes you happy 585 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: when you do it. It's it, it is. It is 586 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: an exhilarating act, and you feel like you're accomplishing something. 587 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: What's harder is to like have that same feeling by 588 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: doing seed bombing, right by by actually like improving your 589 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 1: community slowly through these types of like so the PC ideas, 590 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: they don't have the same immediate emotional reactions. So a 591 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,479 Speaker 1: lot of people like when they, you know, think about 592 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: what insurrection is, they can a default to this destructive tendency, 593 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: which destruction has its time and place. Um, but if 594 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: that's your only practice, we're not gonna improve the world 595 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: at all, Like, right, that's that's not gonna do anything. 596 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: Helping through you know, giving out food, helping through giving 597 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: out socks and clothes, helping through all of these solar 598 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: punk ways. These are things that actually like are going 599 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: to improve things on a tangible level. They and they're 600 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: gonna make more people be like, oh, hey, what what 601 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: are these anarchists doing? That's actually interesting versus oh, what 602 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: are these anarchists doing? This is stupid? Ignore everything to say, yeah, 603 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,919 Speaker 1: people to remember as well that um, you know, there's 604 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,800 Speaker 1: seeds was sort of funk in Kirp Hootkins write things, 605 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: you know, from the conquest of bread to mutual aid, 606 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: and those are sort of things that should be just 607 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: as emphasized as the destructive, exhigerating aspects of anarchism. Yeah, 608 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: there's a line in a Frank Turner song, a couple 609 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: of lines actually in a song called nineteen thirty three 610 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: that I go back to a lot, But one of 611 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: them is you can't fix the world of all you 612 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: have is a hammer. And that's I guess what I 613 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: see is, like, the primary practical benefit of solar punk, 614 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: just as an aesthetic as a piece of fiction, is 615 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: getting people to expand their toolbox. Yeah, get yourself a trowel, 616 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, some some screw drivas, you know. Yeah, keep 617 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: the hammer, you need that sometimes too, but let's grab 618 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: some other tools. Expand the toolbox. Thing is a really 619 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: great metaphor for all of this type of thing. Yeah. Yeah, Um, 620 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: I think that's most of what we're going to get 621 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: into today. Um. There's a couple of pieces of things 622 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: I would want to read. One of them Isn't. This 623 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: Isn't directly I think it predates the solar punk, but 624 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: it it a I think feeds into some of what 625 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: I think it emotionally feeds into a lot of what 626 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: we're talking about here. It's an essay from David Graber 627 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: called The Shock of Victory UM, which I think is 628 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: really useful to me. Yeah. Um. And I would also 629 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 1: recommend um Corey doctor O's new fiction novel walk Away UM, 630 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: which I think is really wonderful. Piece was a wonderful, 631 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: wonderful book. I should have included my recommentions. It was 632 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: really great. Yeah. I read it recently and it made me, Um. 633 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: It made me feel the way like as a fiction 634 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: writer that a grid piece of fiction should, which is 635 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: like I felt bad. Uh. I felt bad about some 636 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 1: of the things that I had written because there's there's 637 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: there's such there's so much more or courage because I 638 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: wrote a piece of fiction that has some solar punk elements, 639 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: has some quasi utopian elements in the dystopia. But I 640 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: didn't have the courage to kind of go as far 641 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: as as Corey did and to imagine a kind of 642 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: passivism that he he has the courage to kind of 643 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,760 Speaker 1: put into the into the hands of his his protagonists. 644 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 1: Like I, I really respect that about the book. I mean, 645 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: the book goes in some very interesting eye directions as well, 646 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: but it's it's got some great ship um, and I 647 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: always enjoy Corey's Corey's leve of burning man um of 648 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,760 Speaker 1: what it could be is kind of what the what 649 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: what some of it's turned into? But yeah, um, Andrew, 650 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: is there anything else you wanted to get into before 651 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: we we close this out? I just want to remind 652 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: people to check on your friendsh you know, Um, we're 653 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: all going through various stages of claps, as I outlined 654 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: in my video. You know, we shift between them from 655 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: time to time, so try not to go through it alone. 656 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,479 Speaker 1: You know, there's no there's no eye in Sula punk. 657 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um check out st Andrew on YouTube at 658 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: st andrews Um. Um, Andrew, is there any anything else 659 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: you wanted to kind of plug from your own your 660 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: own personal work? Yeah. So, um, other than the you know, 661 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: the Sula punk videos and the collapse videos, I want 662 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: to remind sorry, I rather I want to shout out 663 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 1: my video on black anarchism. I think that is a 664 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: pretty essential look into, uh, the history of black anarchism 665 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: in the United States and in the world. I also 666 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: want to recommend um my video on the psychology of authoritarianism. 667 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people have family members who 668 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: are conservative or on the right to what may be 669 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: leading fascist and I think not having to be helpful 670 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: for you know, helping them to or rather helping you 671 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: to understand the way they mindset side m hm. And also, 672 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: you know, check out my video on puma Let's sing. 673 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: I think that was a pretty fun one as well. 674 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: It breaks down a lot of it break breaks down 675 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: how you can go about implementing food forests or puma 676 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: culture gardens wherever you find yourself. Awesome, Um, thank you 677 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: very much for being on the show, Andrew, thank you 678 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: all for listening. We'll be back tomorrow or if this 679 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: comes out Friday, we'll be back, you know, another day. 680 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: We'll be back at some point. You know, you know 681 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: how this works, you understand podcasts. It could happen Here 682 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts 683 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media 684 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,919 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the I Heart 685 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 686 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could happen here, updated 687 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,240 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 688 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 1: for listening.