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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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Speaker 1: bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Jamie, but the Bechdel Cast is like a box of chocolates. Okay,

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Speaker 2: explain that. Do you never know what you're gonna get?

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Speaker 2: Are we gonna reference Shrek? Maybe?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Almost the last time we gave people

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Speaker 3: something they didn't know they were gonna get.

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Speaker 2: You know what, You're right, it's pretty predictable. We're probably

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Speaker 2: gonna again reference Shrek or Titanic or Minions.

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Speaker 3: I will say, when it comes to the Life of

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Speaker 3: Forrest Gump, I did not know what I was gonna get.

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Speaker 3: For example, I didn't expect the KKK to come up

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Speaker 3: in the first five minutes of this movie. I'll be honest. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'll be honest. And I also didn't expect him to

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Speaker 3: give John Lennon the idea for this song imagine. So

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Speaker 3: you know, if nothing else, this movie delivers on the

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Speaker 3: promise I did not know what was gonna happen next,

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Speaker 3: even if very often it had me screaming at my roku. H.

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Speaker 2: So today's episode, I feel like it's a long time

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Speaker 2: coming Forrest Gump.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm surprised we haven't talked about it yet. I

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Speaker 3: think I've been like kind of quietly refusing to talk

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Speaker 3: about it for a long time because it's one of

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Speaker 3: those movies that I'm like almost impressed. It's taken me

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Speaker 3: this long to see. But it's over. Now we can

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Speaker 3: finally go to Bubba Gump, Yes, and really explore how

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Speaker 3: I was like, how do they present the characters in

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Speaker 3: the restaurant? Like, are they like rip Bubba in the restaurant?

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Speaker 2: I don't remember. I've only been once, and so I

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Speaker 2: can't say for certain. We'll find out soon because we're going,

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Speaker 2: Jamie and.

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Speaker 3: I, we're going. We're going to the city walk Bubba Gump,

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Speaker 3: and we're gonna it's a business expense. Isn't that thrilling?

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Speaker 2: It's thrilling. By the way, let us enter duce ourselves. Hi,

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Speaker 2: my name's Caitlin Caitlyn Derante.

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Speaker 3: Oh, my name is Jamie Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 2: And this is our podcast where we examine movies through

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Speaker 2: an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel Test simply as

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Speaker 2: a jumping off point to initiate larger discussions about representation

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Speaker 2: and things. What's the Bechtel test though.

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Speaker 3: Oh thank you for asking, yeh. Media metric originally created

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Speaker 3: by Alison Bechdel, often called the Bechdel Wallace Test because

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Speaker 3: it was co created with Liz Wallace. Originally created as

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Speaker 3: a queer media test, but has since been applied to

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Speaker 3: a far larger swath of media. Lots of versions of

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Speaker 3: the test. The one we use requires that two people

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Speaker 3: of a marginalized gender with names talk to each other

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Speaker 3: about something other and a man. Many movies pass it

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Speaker 3: now still some don't, but this is just how we

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Speaker 3: sort of start the discussion, and it's still to this

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Speaker 3: day my favorite way to tell. When people are lying

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Speaker 3: about talking about the show. They're like, yeah, for two hours,

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Speaker 3: you just pour over the script and you're like, no,

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Speaker 3: that's a man. Next time. Anyways, today we're covering Forrest

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Speaker 3: Gump and we have the perfect guest, which is why

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Speaker 3: it is time to cover this movie.

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Speaker 2: We sure do. She is a YouTuber and video says

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Speaker 2: she is host of rehash podcast. It's may aka Broi

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Speaker 2: da Chanel.

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Speaker 4: Welcome, Thanks, guys. How's it going.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's just fine and dandy, splendid, guys.

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Speaker 3: This movie is so long. I feel like now when

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Speaker 3: I look at a certain run time and I know

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Speaker 3: it's not gonna be a movie for me, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: don't piss me off. This is wild. This is as

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Speaker 3: long as wicked.

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Speaker 4: I sat down to rewatch it with my two friends

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Speaker 4: yesterday and I invited them over for seven pm. It's like,

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Speaker 4: I gotta go to bed early. I'm so tired. They

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Speaker 4: talked until nine pm, so like we didn't really get

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Speaker 4: started till then. And then I was like, guys, I

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Speaker 4: just remember the movies two and a half hour long.

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Speaker 4: Like we got a start and they didn't leave till

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Speaker 4: like twelve thirty.

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Speaker 3: Good for them for sticking it out. That's really brave.

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Speaker 4: I know they wanted to watch like a really artsy movie,

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Speaker 4: and they wanted to go to like Anthology, which is

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Speaker 4: like this theater in New York, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: how about instead you come over and watch Forrest Gump

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Speaker 4: with me.

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Speaker 3: Very money trauma. Yeah, that theater rocks. Yeah, this what

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Speaker 3: a journey. And obviously, I mean, we'll be linking your

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Speaker 3: video in the description, but The reason we're bringing you

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Speaker 3: on for this is because you've recently released an incredible

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Speaker 3: video about the political legacy of this movie, as well

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Speaker 3: as the adaptation from book to film, which I knew

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Speaker 3: nothing about on your channel. So I'm curious to start.

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Speaker 3: What is your history with this movie.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I watched Forrest Gump for the first time. I

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Speaker 4: think it was like early high school. I was probably

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Speaker 4: in grade nine, as week Canadians put it ninth grade.

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Speaker 3: Very de grassy, coded of you.

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Speaker 4: It's so grassy.

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Speaker 3: I know how to talk to Canadian people. It's like

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Speaker 3: they flip it.

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Speaker 4: We flip it. Yeah, And I went to my aunt's

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Speaker 4: house and I would like, I sometimes would go in

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Speaker 4: her bedroom and she has like a TV, and I'd

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Speaker 4: watched a movie in there while she and the adults talked.

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Speaker 4: So I went into the room and watched Forrest Gump,

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Speaker 4: and I loved it. Like back then especially, I just

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Speaker 4: felt very swept up in the emotion of it. I

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Speaker 4: think it's a really emotionally powerful movie and it does

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Speaker 4: a really good job of that. I think it's a

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Speaker 4: really competent movie. And so by the end, I was like,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, that was so beautiful. I was solving.

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Speaker 4: I was like, I miss Jenny two. And then I

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Speaker 4: hadn't watched it for years, and then a few months ago,

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Speaker 4: I was like, wouldn't it be kind of cool? Like

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Speaker 4: I started learning more about the film's place in popular

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Speaker 4: culture and the way that it's kind of aged and

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Speaker 4: spoiler alert, it hasn't aged well, and I thought it'd

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Speaker 4: be interesting to kind of go back and do a

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Speaker 4: retrospective on the film. And so in September I went

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Speaker 4: back and I rewatched it, and then I started reading

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Speaker 4: more about it, and the more I read about it,

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Speaker 4: the more I started to kind of really dislike it,

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Speaker 4: which is unfortunate, but because I don't want to come

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Speaker 4: out of a video with that feeling. But that's just

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Speaker 4: kind of how it went. But it was a really

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Speaker 4: rich It was a hotbed for takes. And then I

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Speaker 4: had seen it probably for that month because of the research.

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Speaker 4: I'd watched it about five times, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm never gonna watch this movie again.

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Speaker 3: Oh no.

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Speaker 4: And then you guys reached it though, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: they pulled me back in and so here I am, sorry, no, no,

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Speaker 4: and I'm really pumped because where else would I want

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Speaker 4: to talk about this more than on the Bechdel cast,

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Speaker 4: no less.

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Speaker 3: So thank you for watching it for the sixth time

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Speaker 3: this calendar year. So sorry, that's like almost a full

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Speaker 3: I can't do math. It's a lot of time. I

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Speaker 3: was gonna say, that's three days.

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Speaker 4: It's okay. I can call myself a Forrest Gump expert,

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Speaker 4: like proudly, and so I think I think that's fine.

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Speaker 4: You know, sometimes you have to be an expert in something.

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Speaker 3: It's true. I mean, we'll talk about this after the

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Speaker 3: recap more. But I was very taken aback by how

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Speaker 3: this movie has been a hotbed for takes since it

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Speaker 3: came out, like it predates the subsequent internet discourses by

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Speaker 3: a lot, and then is somehow continuing into this press

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Speaker 3: cycle for here is that what it's called?

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Speaker 2: Oh the way, the Robert Zemeckis movie of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four that has the same cast because it's Tom Hanks

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Speaker 2: and Robin Wright.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's been another sort of round of discourse

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Speaker 3: about it in the last like two months because Robin

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Speaker 3: Wright was asked about the character Jenny on a press tour.

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Speaker 3: So it's like he's inescapable, He's everywhere. Caitlin what's your

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Speaker 3: history with Forrest Gump?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I have what might be a rather shocking history

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Speaker 2: with this movie. I have seen the movie probably seventy

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Speaker 2: or eighty times throughout my life. Although most of it, yeah.

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Speaker 3: You don't like a movie halfway. I will say.

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Speaker 2: It's when I really like something, I commit. But I

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Speaker 2: would say like ninety five percent of those viewings were very,

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Speaker 2: very concentrated between age like ten and twelve. So the

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Speaker 2: movie came out when I was eight years old. I

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Speaker 2: don't think I saw it until probably a year later

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Speaker 2: we got it on VHS, and it probably took me

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Speaker 2: a little while too, like because I was just sort

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Speaker 2: of like, what's this movie? Because my mom would be like,

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Speaker 2: leave me alone, go watch something.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to Laurie. It was definitely listening.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: She did a great job raising me, but sometimes she

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Speaker 2: was just like, go watch a movie. So eventually I

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Speaker 2: discovered Forrest Gump. I think it was probably nine or ten,

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Speaker 2: And I don't know why I took to it so much,

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Speaker 2: because it was not like anything else I was watching

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Speaker 2: at that age, but I became obsessed and I would

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Speaker 2: probably watch it every few days.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And I did that until Titanic came out, and those

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Speaker 2: two VHS's really replaced Forrest Gump in my movie watching circulation.

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Speaker 2: So from age twelve, I think I probably only saw

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Speaker 2: it once or twice, maybe like a couple times as

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Speaker 2: a teenager, maybe once in college, but for those few years,

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Speaker 2: I was like enthralled by it. There are things about

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Speaker 2: American history that I first learned about from this movie,

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Speaker 2: not that it really dives deep into any of those things,

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Speaker 2: but like I probably didn't know what the Vietnam War

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Speaker 2: was until I watched this movie. I didn't know about

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Speaker 2: like racial segregation until this movie. I didn't know about

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Speaker 2: a bunch of things until I saw this movie. Also,

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Speaker 2: the soundtrack introduced me to a lot of iconic songs

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Speaker 2: from the sixties and seventies that I probably wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: been exposed to really otherwise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the needle Drops, You can't argue with the needle drops,

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Speaker 3: simply cannot.

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Speaker 4: They're really running through like every top song of the sixties.

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Speaker 4: They hit every single one of.

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Speaker 3: Them, back to back to it. Like sometimes I think

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Speaker 3: there was a run of like four in a row.

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Speaker 3: You're like, damn budget, Like it felt like a Scorsese movie.

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Speaker 2: You're just saying, so I have a very weird history

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Speaker 2: with this movie, and then I kind of just forgot

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Speaker 2: about it and didn't care about it, and probably upon retrospect,

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Speaker 2: was like, I don't think that movie's very good, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't really go back and check until prepping for

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Speaker 2: this episode. I'm very excited to talk about it. There's

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Speaker 2: much to discuss and my yea, your video essay is incredible.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Jamie.

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Speaker 2: What is your history with the movie?

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Speaker 3: Ah? Nothing. This is one of the movies that I Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know exactly why it took me so long

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Speaker 3: to watch this, but once I realized, I think like

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Speaker 3: sometime in college, I was like, wow, I've never seen

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Speaker 3: Forrest Gump, And instead of being like I should watch

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Speaker 3: it and educate myself, I'm like, let me see how

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Speaker 3: far into my life I can get without seeing it,

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Speaker 3: which is all the way until this weekend. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 3: very interested to talk about how this because at first,

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Speaker 3: like on my first view, I was like I don't

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Speaker 3: get it. But the more I talked to people who

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Speaker 3: had like a childhood appreciation of this movie, I was like,

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Speaker 3: I think I was like a baby when this came out,

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Speaker 3: so I wouldn't have seen it until later anyways. But

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Speaker 3: my boyfriend also has like a strong attachment to this movie,

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Speaker 3: and similar to you, Caitlin said that like he learned

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Speaker 3: about like a few pieces of American history that he

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Speaker 3: didn't know about before then either. And I still am like,

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Speaker 3: it is wild to me that this movie, which is

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Speaker 3: two and a half hours long and a prestige drama,

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Speaker 3: was holding the attention of children.

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Speaker 2: Makes no sense. Cannot explain, but it.

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Speaker 3: Seems that there are many such cases. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I remember, like my dad didn't like this movie. I

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Speaker 3: don't know why. I can't tell you why, but I

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Speaker 3: think he was just like, no long boring, Let's watch

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Speaker 3: Peewey's Pick Adventure, and so we would nice. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm coming in very fresh on this movie and I'm

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Speaker 3: excited to talk about it because, like you were saying

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Speaker 3: a little earlier, my yeah, I mean, I think it

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Speaker 3: is clearly a beautifully made movie, and it just feels like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this early hardbinger of like maybe Robert Zemechis is not

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Speaker 3: a historical film kind of guy. Maybe he has no

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Speaker 3: interest in it, or at least meaningful interest in it.

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Speaker 4: If Rowers Megas has one hater, it's me. I dislike

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Speaker 4: him more than even the movie. I dislike him a lot.

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Speaker 3: I was shocked at some of the clips that you

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Speaker 3: found of him being like, no, I didn't read the book,

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Speaker 3: Like reading sucks. It was like whoa.

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Speaker 2: Well, to be fair, that's also us on the Bechdel cast,

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Speaker 2: we would never read a book.

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Speaker 3: But if you're gonna make the movie, you should probably

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Speaker 3: finish the book.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just a part of this cohort of like

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Speaker 4: directors that are very thing go boom, like that's their

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Speaker 4: whole their whole approach to filmmaking, their like thing go boom,

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Speaker 4: no talking single boom, And that's that's really him. And

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Speaker 4: he's he's making things go boom in this movie.

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Speaker 3: He real, really is. I was like, I like him

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Speaker 3: at the I mean, I'm a Roger Rabbit head. I

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Speaker 3: can't take that from him. Roger Rabbit and death becomes her.

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Speaker 4: I do love me as well.

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Speaker 2: I'm a big Back to the Future head. Famously, he's

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Speaker 2: and this is the thing, he's a great filmmaker. Poor Express,

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: That was maybe the hottest take in your entire video,

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Speaker 3: because you're like Polar Express actually good thought. Love that

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Speaker 3: that is the least scary of his animated movies in retrospect.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we should say. Robert Zemeckis of Disney's Pinocchio

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two Fame Yes, which was, of course one

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Speaker 2: of the brave soldiers of the Pinocchio Wars.

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Speaker 3: I think that's our best Patreon series ever. The Pinocchio

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Speaker 3: Wars was. You know, if there's anything to sell people

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Speaker 3: on the Matreon, it's the Pinocchio Wars months Because why

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Speaker 3: was Pinocchio so top of mind for so many in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. We'll never know. We'll never know. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Tom Hanks, that was I feel like that really sort

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Speaker 3: of unfortunately was the bell toll of Tom at the

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Speaker 3: beginning of Tom hanks flop era a bit was his

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Speaker 3: weird drunken interpretation of Geppetto. Anyway, that's for the Pinocchio Wars,

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Speaker 3: all right, So I guess let's uh, let's.

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Speaker 2: Take a break and then come back for the recap

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Speaker 2: and we're back, okay, So I'll do what ended up

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Speaker 2: being such a long I tried to trim it down

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Speaker 2: and I left a bunch of stuff out which we

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Speaker 2: can get into more. During the discussion. But there's just

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Speaker 2: so much that happens in this movie that I inevitably

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Speaker 2: skip over some stuff. I will also place a content

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Speaker 2: warning here for sexual abuse and assault, suicidal ideation, things

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Speaker 2: of that nature.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, trigger warning for everything that happens to Jenny. Basically, yeah, truly.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So we follow a feather floating through the air

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Speaker 2: and landing at the feet of Forrest Gump played by

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Speaker 2: Tom Hanks.

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Speaker 3: Could it be a metaphor?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Also some extremely sentimental music, yeah, continue throughout.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah. I found the score to be so grating.

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Speaker 4: Very saccurate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I played that in a high school orchestra. I

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Speaker 3: didn't even realize that that was like what it was.

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Speaker 3: I was like, where do I know that? I was like,

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Speaker 3: I know the obol part.

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Speaker 2: Oh classic? Yea, oh okay. So Forrest Gump is sitting

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Speaker 2: on a bench at a bus stop. It is nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty one. A woman comes down and sits next to him,

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Speaker 2: and he introduces himself. He offers her a chocolate and

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Speaker 2: then says the famous line my mom always said, life

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Speaker 2: is like a box of chocolates. You never know what

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Speaker 2: you're gonna get and then he starts relaying his entire

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Speaker 2: life story to this woman who has no interest in

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Speaker 2: talking to him, and we flash back to Forrest as

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Speaker 2: a child in the nineteen fifties. He lives with his mom,

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Speaker 2: played by Sally Field.

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Speaker 3: And the wigs they're using on this poor woman, Oh,

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Speaker 3: as they begin to age her, I'm just like, this

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Speaker 3: isn't fair. The great Sally Field and we're putting these diegessts.

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Speaker 2: Like Nicole Kidman level wigs.

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Speaker 3: Brutal.

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Speaker 4: She's rocking an incredible accent, though, one that I really

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Speaker 4: am jealous of.

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Speaker 2: She rocks. So she runs a boarding house just outside Greenbow, Alabama.

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Speaker 2: Forrest has braces on his legs as well as an

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Speaker 2: intellectual disability. His mom wants him to get the same

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Speaker 2: education as other kids, so she sleeps with a school

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Speaker 2: administrator so that he will let Forrest go to public

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Speaker 2: school and not a like quote unquote special school as

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Speaker 2: they call it in the movie.

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Speaker 3: So Yes, in the first ten minutes, we first learned

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Speaker 3: that he is named after the Grand Wizard of the KKK,

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Speaker 3: and this thing with the mom happens, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: why were six year olds watching it? What that's going on?

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Speaker 4: The craziest part about the KKK thing is, and I

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Speaker 4: didn't catch this till this viewing, was that his reasoning

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Speaker 4: was that he was, like my mom said, it's because

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Speaker 4: sometimes people do crazy things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and now we're supposed to be like deeply invested

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Speaker 3: in this woman's journey for three hours, like it's.

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Speaker 2: Just And this is also the beginning of a trend

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Speaker 2: throughout the movie where Forrest very wildly miss understands and

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Speaker 2: like miss describes different historical events or cultural events, and

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Speaker 2: he has a very like naive and childlike understanding of

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Speaker 2: the world in this I think the first example we

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Speaker 2: see of it.

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Speaker 3: Which for adult viewers is very like wink and nod.

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Speaker 3: But if you're six and watching this movie, I would

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Speaker 3: imagine it would be a little confusing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can speak from experience.

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Speaker 4: The movie is really full of like little nods to

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Speaker 4: Americans being like remember that thing. But then sometimes the

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Speaker 4: nod is like remember the KKK.

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Speaker 3: You remember the the movie just started. Not to mention

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Speaker 3: that the person that Forrest is talking to for the

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Speaker 3: first I think like hour of the movie is a

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Speaker 3: working class black woman, and the first he brings up

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Speaker 3: is like, so I'm named after the Grand Wizards of KKK,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, Forrest.

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Speaker 2: Can read the room.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: So then it's forces first day of school. The kids

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Speaker 2: on the bus are very cruel to him, and no

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Speaker 2: one will let him sit next to them, except for Jenny.

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Speaker 2: She and Forrest become best friends, and one day some

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Speaker 2: kids are bullying Forest and Jenny says the famous line, Run, Forest, Run.

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Speaker 2: So he starts to run away, but the braces on

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Speaker 2: his legs mean that he can't move very fast until

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Speaker 2: the braces start to break off and he's magically cured

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Speaker 2: of his disability.

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Speaker 3: We'll get back to that, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And he runs so fast away from the bullies, and

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Speaker 2: from that day forward he was always running. Jenny and

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Speaker 2: Forrest remain friends through high school. Jenny's now played by

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Speaker 2: Robin Wright. There is another scene where Forrest runs away

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Speaker 2: from bullies onto a college football practice and the coaches

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Speaker 2: see how fast he is, so they recruit him to

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Speaker 2: play football for I think the University of Alabama. So

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Speaker 2: he goes to college, and while he's there, here's another

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Speaker 2: example of like, he doesn't understand systemic racism because there's

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Speaker 2: a movement to desegregate the university, and he doesn't understand

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Speaker 2: what's going on, he accidentally kind of like interferes with it.

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Speaker 2: One night, Forrest visits Jenny, who goes to a nearby

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Speaker 2: women's college. She brings him to her dorm room, takes

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Speaker 2: off her bra, puts his hand on her breast, and

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Speaker 2: the consent or lack thereof is also something we can

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Speaker 2: discuss later, but it's implied that this is his first

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Speaker 2: ever sexual experience with another person. He also prematurely jacket

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Speaker 2: ejaculated yeah, in front.

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Speaker 3: Of her roommate, and when they cut to the roommate,

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Speaker 3: I was like, I.

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Speaker 4: Was like, that's the movie's one joke that's funny.

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Speaker 2: So there's like this arguably a sexual assault scene that

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Speaker 2: ends in like a jokey button and you're just like,

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Speaker 2: what's going on? Anyway, we kind of skip ahead. He

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Speaker 2: graduates from college after of course, meeting President John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy for being a college football star, the first of

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Speaker 2: many presidents he will meet, and then he enlists in

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Speaker 2: the army, where he meets and befriends Bubba played by

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Speaker 2: Michelt Williamson, whose family is in the shrimping business and

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Speaker 2: Bubba's whole personality is shrimp. That's really all we know

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Speaker 2: about Bubba, and before Forrest is shipped off to Vietnam,

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Speaker 2: he gets a chance to go and see Jenny perform.

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Speaker 2: She is now a folk singer. She is doing a

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Speaker 2: show in a strip club type place. Way what was

401
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Speaker 2: her like stage name Bobby Dylan.

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, she wants to be Joan Bias. She's being

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Speaker 4: naked Joan Bias.

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Speaker 3: Which is like, I mean I and again because it

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Speaker 3: kind of the politics and tones of this movie, this

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Speaker 3: is made out to be like the worst and most

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Speaker 3: humiliating thing that could possibly happen to Jenny. But I

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Speaker 3: was like, that seems like, you know, with the right crowd,

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Speaker 3: that could be actually quite fun. Uh, naked folks singing

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Speaker 3: I'm in.

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Speaker 4: I was also kind of like, I'm quite fascinated by

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Speaker 4: this club and the nature and the rules of the club,

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Speaker 4: and and how like she's not dancing, she's just and

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Speaker 4: she's covered fully with the guitar.

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Speaker 3: I was like, hmm, yeah, the guys jeering at her,

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Speaker 3: you know, I was like, are they folk fit?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: What is in everyone singing folk? Is it just her?

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Speaker 3: We don't know.

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Speaker 4: I go the Empress and she had asked that this

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Speaker 4: is my like the lore, I creative, but I was like,

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Speaker 4: maybe should asked the manager, and she's like, I have

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Speaker 4: this huge interest in Joe Bias. I'm gonna be famous

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Speaker 4: one day, Like, can you let me one night do this?

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Speaker 4: It just reminds me of the clubs in like Flash

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Speaker 4: Dance too, where you're like that club, is that a

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Speaker 4: strip club or is that like a fantasy club? Right?

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Speaker 3: And they're like, due to like wanting to release this

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Speaker 3: movie internationally, we refuse to get more specific about what's

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Speaker 3: going on here. Right Anyways, all I say I would

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Speaker 3: go to that club. It kind of looks like a

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Speaker 3: Jumbo's clown room kind of thing, right. Yeah, She's like,

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Speaker 3: do whatever you want, have some fun.

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Speaker 1: It does.

435
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just put on fun little variety shows. You

436
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: can do whatever act you want.

437
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 4: Naked cabaret, I guess cabarets are also naked sometimes.

438
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 3: So wait, Kitlyn, did you ever do that naked stand

439
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 3: up show when we lived in Boston.

440
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: I didn't do the version of it where you were

441
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 2: fully naked. There was like a swimsuit edition and I

442
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 2: did that. Okay, So I was a coward not willing

443
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: to show my titties on stage. I mean, which I

444
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: would absolutely do right now today, I would have no

445
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 2: qualms about that.

446
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 3: I did that show then. I don't think I would

447
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: do it now. But I used to be a tech

448
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 3: for that show too, and so like they had all

449
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 3: those weird draconian Massachusetts rules for like what you can

450
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 3: and can't do on stage, where they're like it's considered

451
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 3: art as long as you don't touch anybody or anything.

452
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: Like you couldn't have anything with you because they're like,

453
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: if you touch another person, it's porn. So you couldn't

454
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 3: even shake the hand of the host or it legally

455
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 3: became like a second like it was so in the host.

456
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 3: This guy Andy was so intense about it. He's like,

457
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 3: I will go to jail if you shake my hand.

458
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 4: What What was the crowd like at this type of event?

459
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 3: All old men who didn't know how to access porn online,

460
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 3: which is why I would not do it today. It

461
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: was all old men that were like h Like I

462
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 3: just wanted to give them a laptop and be like,

463
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: get out of here.

464
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 4: Once you've done naked stand up, you can do anything though,

465
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 4: Like that's that's incredible.

466
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: It's true. Once you've stood before someone's pea paw with

467
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 3: your titius out, your pipe out. Just what a time. Anyways,

468
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 3: I felt as a Jenny fan, I was like, all right,

469
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 3: all right, we're all on the same page here. That

470
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 3: looks like a fun show.

471
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 4: I'm getting what she's putting down right right.

472
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: So we're at this show and some of the audience members,

473
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: you know, creepy men, are trying to grab her. So

474
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 2: Forrest intervenes and like saves her. We've seen him do

475
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: this before when they were in college. She's pissed that

476
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: he's always trying to rescue her and Forrest says, I

477
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: can't help it. I love you. And she says, you

478
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: don't know what love is, Forrest, and this will come

479
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: back later, but she goes to leave. Before she does,

480
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 2: she tells him that if anything happens while he is

481
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 2: in the war in Vietnam, he should just run. He

482
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 2: shouldn't try to be brave, he should do what he

483
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: does best and run away. And he says okay, and

484
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: they part ways, and then Forest and Bubba are shipped

485
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: to Vietnam. There they meet Lieutenant Dan played by Gary Sonise.

486
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: Their platoon goes around the countryside on foot. They endure

487
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: the rainy season.

488
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 3: Every hit of this calendar year plays in rapid succession.

489
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: It's kind of fun.

490
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good soundtrack. Bubba asks Forrest if he

491
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: wants to go into the shrimping business with him when

492
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: they get out of the war, and Forrest agrees. But

493
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: shortly thereafter, there's an ambush and Forrest runs away to safety,

494
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: just like Jenny told him to, though he does go

495
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: back and save several fellow soldiers, including Lieutenant Dan, whose

496
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: legs have been injured.

497
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 4: Who's begging him not to save him because Lieutenant Dan's

498
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 4: ancestors all died in every American war and so he

499
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 4: wants to also live out that legacy.

500
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, but Forest ignores his orders and saves Lieutenant

501
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: Dan anyway. He also does find Bubba, but he's badly wounded,

502
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 2: and Bubba dies in Forrest's arms. Forrest is also wounded,

503
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: he was shot in the buttocks, so he's released from

504
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: active duty while he recovers, and during this time he

505
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: learns how to play ping pong and he becomes this

506
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: like ping pong champ. Meanwhile, Lieutenant Dan, whose legs have

507
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 2: been amputated, is resentful that Forrest saved him because he

508
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: felt he was destined to die in battle, and so

509
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 2: now he has no idea what he's going to do

510
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: with his life. Then Forrest is sent home and awarded

511
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 2: the Congressional Medal of Honor. He goes to meet President

512
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: Lyndon Johnson. He flashes his ass on TV to show

513
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 2: the wound, and also while he's in Washington, d C.

514
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: He accidentally gets shuffled into a crowd of veterans who

515
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: are anti war protesters, and he ends up on stage

516
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: in front of a crowd of thousands at the Washington Monument.

517
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: With Abby Hoffman, who I don't think that he's orally identified,

518
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 3: but I like double checked and is definitely supposed to

519
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 3: be him.

520
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 4: He's definitely supposed to be Abbi Hoffman. And the way

521
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 4: that they like, the way that they characterize Abbi Hoffman's

522
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 4: legacy is just so insulting and they're like that man

523
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 4: swollen a lot. Yes, I have to say, he's in

524
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 4: the F word a lot. Yeah, so disrespectful.

525
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm very excited to talk about the adaptation

526
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: change made here after the recap, because like, we'll never

527
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 3: know what Forrest really thought about the Vietnam War.

528
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: Not according to the movie. At least. Yeah, so Forest

529
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: is about to like speak, but a soldier, a cop

530
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: somebody pulls out all of the microphone plugs, so we

531
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: don't hear what Forest has to say about the war,

532
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: and lo and behold, Jenny is there at this demonstration,

533
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: and she and Forrest reunite and the crowd cheers, and

534
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: so Jenny and Forest hang out. She catches him up

535
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: on her life. She is a hippie now she has

536
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: traveled around a bunch. She takes him to a black

537
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: panther meetup and we can talk more about this scene later.

538
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: But Forrest gets in a fight with Jenny's abusive boyfriend.

539
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, any scene that's about systemic racism they managed to make.

540
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 3: They're like, actually, wait, let's actually get back to Forrest,

541
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 3: like within fifteen seconds of arriving, for sure.

542
00:29:54,520 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this altercation happens, and then Jenny leaves again

543
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: out of Forrest's life. Some time passes. He plays on

544
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: the All American Ping pong team and competes in China.

545
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: Then he goes on a talk show hosted by someone

546
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: who I'm probably supposed to know who that is, but

547
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: I'm too young. I dkay oh, Dick Cavot I love

548
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: Dick Caaviot.

549
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 4: Oh it's Dick Kaviot. I'll come out right now and

550
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 4: say I loved it, right, got it, got it.

551
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: Wow, the John Lennon scene took me out. I love

552
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: the John Lennon seed.

553
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 4: Make John Lennon's head looks so big, but I feel

554
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 4: like freamously, John Lennon had a tiny head, and so

555
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: for some reason, it just I can't. I can't embrace

556
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 4: the scene.

557
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: You know, he does look like like a Sanrio character

558
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: the way that they've like edited him, but I just

559
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: oh my god, when he's like and no religion too dying.

560
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: So the thing here is that John Lennon is also

561
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: a guest on this talk show, and it's implied that

562
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: a few of the things that Forrest says inspires lyrics

563
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: to John Lennon's imagine it's only the whole movie.

564
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 3: We're that goofy.

565
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 4: Yeah. Right.

566
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: So then Forrest reunites with Lieutenant Dan, who is bitter

567
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: and he is dealing with alcoholism. Forrest tells him his

568
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: plan to become a shrimp boat captain because he had

569
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: made a promise to Bubba, and Lieutenant Dan is like, yeah,

570
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: all right, the day you become a shrimp boat captain.

571
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: I'll come and be your first mate. So then they

572
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: celebrate New Year's Eve together. They bond over being marginalized

573
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: for their disabilities. Then Forrest meets President Nixon. I forget

574
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: why this time. It's maybe a ping pong it's a.

575
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 3: Ping pong related thing. Yeah, And then he starts Watergate. Yeah.

576
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: He exposes the Watergate scandal or something. Yeah, Forrest does,

577
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: and then he's discharged from the Army, so he returns

578
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: home to Alabama to see his mom. He takes the

579
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 2: twenty five thousand dollars that he was paid to endorse

580
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: a ping pong paddle brand and he buys a shrimping

581
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: boat with it, but he is not very good at

582
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 2: shrimping at first. He names his boat Jenny, and he

583
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: spends most of his time thinking about Jenny, who meanwhile

584
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 2: is dealing with drug addiction with suicidal ideation. These are

585
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: things that Forrest has no idea about, and according to

586
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: the movie, probably wouldn't understand anyway because of his extreme naivete.

587
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: And then one day, Lieutenant Dan shows up to honor

588
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 2: his promise that he would be Forrest's first mate, so

589
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: they start shrimping together, and all.

590
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 3: Of a sudden, his hair is like really beautiful.

591
00:32:58,600 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 4: I love luscious.

592
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: He started conditioning.

593
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lieutenant Dan's like shrimping. Look. I love he has

594
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 3: a lot of.

595
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 4: Looks in this movie, like a lot of like the

596
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 4: evolution of getting more snatched as the movie goes upon

597
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 4: or something.

598
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 3: It's like, I like his Hawaiian shirt, like wavy conditioned

599
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: hair moment, it's like, wow, that's I love how that

600
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 3: they're like, Okay, he's not as much of an alcoholic

601
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 3: now because look at his hair, and you're like, okay, okay,

602
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 3: I got it.

603
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, he got his hands on a bottle of herbal

604
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: Essence Swish and they turned his whole life around. So

605
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: they're shrimping together now, but they're still having bad. Look

606
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: until a storm brings in a bunch of shrimp, and

607
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: there's like this whole like forest preyed very hard, and

608
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: maybe that's what brought all this shrimp in, but anyway,

609
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: they have all this shrimp now. This storm also shipwrecked

610
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: all the other local shrimp boats, which the movie nor

611
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: Forest has any empathy for that happening. They just breeze

612
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: right past that.

613
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 3: He becomes a shrimp millionaire.

614
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 4: Yeah right, Also like highly likely the people who run

615
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 4: those bods are like black.

616
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,959
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah? That it is like it's like most likely

617
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: of like majority black business was just decimated and they're like,

618
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 3: and now here's this guy.

619
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 4: This is great for Forrest.

620
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah right exactly. That's how the movie feels about it.

621
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 2: Then Forrest receives word that his mom has fallen ill,

622
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: so he goes home to see her. She dies a

623
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: short time.

624
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 3: Later, and that wig in a wig.

625
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: He decides not to return to shrimping, especially after Lieutenant

626
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 2: Dan invests. They're already millions of dollars in apple, making

627
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: him like mega rich. But he's so generous with his

628
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: money and he donates some of it to the church

629
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 2: and a hospital and Bubba's family.

630
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 4: When I watched the Apple scene, I like turned to

631
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 4: my friends and I was like, did you know Joan

632
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 4: Bias dated Steve Jobs? Is that true?

633
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: I don't know.

634
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 4: That isn't that crazy?

635
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 3: WHOA?

636
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 4: Maybe disappointing even Yeah, I mean that's a bummer.

637
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: It's like, I guess this isn't as disappointing, But I

638
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 3: think a lot about Steve Wozniak and Kathy Griffin that date.

639
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, whoa, I didn't know that either.

640
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: I have such a strong memory. And like, she's to

641
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: have a reality show that I think was on when

642
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 3: I was in middle school and he was like on

643
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: it and they were like on a date and they

644
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 3: were on segways or something. And anyways, those guys, those guys, wow,

645
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 3: Joan Bias what like Steve. Yeah, that is a little disappointing,

646
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 3: but also it was like I wouldn't have expected jobs

647
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 3: to have that kind of pull.

648
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: Well.

649
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 2: I still am confused by Grimes marrying Elon Musk like that.

650
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 3: That's no sense to me. So many cases, so many cases.

651
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

652
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: Anyway, So Forrest is now a bazillionaire and one day

653
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: Jenny shows up at his house and stays with him

654
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 2: for a while. He asks her to marry him, and

655
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: he says, I'm not a smart man, but I know

656
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: what love is, in reference to her telling him earlier

657
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: that he doesn't know what love is. He insists that

658
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: he does.

659
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 4: The way Tom Hanks delivers that line, it does get

660
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:15,959
Speaker 4: me every time.

661
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good moment.

662
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 4: He's really good in this movie.

663
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: It sucks that he's good in this movie.

664
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

665
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: Again, I saw this as a child on repeat for

666
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: a few years, And that was the only Tom Hanks

667
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,959
Speaker 2: movie that I saw during that period, and the first

668
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: Tom Hanks movie I ever saw, So I just thought

669
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: he was like that. I didn't really understand that he

670
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 2: was like performing. And then when I saw like probably

671
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 2: Apollo thirteen, when I was like twelve or so, I

672
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 2: was like, wait a minute, that's the same guy, and

673
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 2: he doesn't sound anything like that. What it was really

674
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: confusing for my child brain.

675
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 4: Like the nineties were a big time for actors with

676
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 4: a lot of talent portraying yes, characters of the disabilities

677
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 4: like Leonardo DiCaprio and What's Eating Gilbert Grape. I feel

678
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 4: like that was his whole yeh coming into fame was

679
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 4: how how many people believed that he was he actually

680
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 4: did have a disability. Yeah, the ethics of which we

681
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 4: can certainly debate.

682
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 2: We can absolutely debate that.

683
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the first movie that I

684
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 3: saw that had that was I Am Sam, a really

685
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 3: stinky Sean Penn movie. Yeah, where it is the same

686
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 3: He's playing a character with an intellectual disability. Glad that

687
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 3: that doesn't happen quite as much these days, not that

688
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: it's completely gone away, but I'm glad it's not a

689
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 3: prominent trend. I don't know. I mean anytime someone portrays

690
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 3: someone with a disability or with like an quote unquote

691
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 3: other body type just to get nominated for an oscar.

692
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 3: I guess the last example we have of that is

693
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 3: kind of is the whale, right.

694
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: In any case, Forrest is like professing his love for

695
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: Jenny and once to marry her, and later that night

696
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: she comes into his room and they have sex. But

697
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: then the next morning she abruptly leaves again, presumably without

698
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 2: saying goodbye to Forrest, and this prompts him to set

699
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 2: off running with no destination in mind. He just runs

700
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: and runs and runs across the country all the way

701
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 2: to the west coast, and then he turns around and

702
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: he runs and runs and runs all the way to

703
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: the east coast. And then he runs for like over

704
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: three years, just non stop, only like stopping to sleep

705
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 2: and just running running running.

706
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: The beard effects was fun. The beard.

707
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 4: I looked at him, I was like, he looks like

708
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 4: every single guy I know, And then I said, it's

709
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 4: kind of working on me. He looks good.

710
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: He does have like a very Brooklyn coated beard. Uh yeah,

711
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 3: he has literally my brother's beard.

712
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 4: He's giving Bushwick for sure.

713
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 3: This a moment that my boyfriend specifically asked me about

714
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,919
Speaker 3: when we had a post mortem on Forrest Gump. He's like, Okay,

715
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: I know you didn't like it, However, what did you

716
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: think of the running? I was like, kind of funny,

717
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 3: kind of weird, I don't know. And he said that

718
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 3: that was something that he and his father specifically really

719
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: bonded over when they would watch that movie. He's like,

720
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: I think that there is some like bizarre masculine fantasy

721
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 3: attached to that of like you were spurned and hurt

722
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: by a woman and you just run away and you

723
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 3: do this kind of like unhinged, hyper masculine thing where

724
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 3: like and I only stopped to sleep and eat and

725
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: poop and I just ran and you know, I was like, wow,

726
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 3: that actually does kind of make sense to me. But

727
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 3: I would never have been able to get there on

728
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 3: my own.

729
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 4: My friend, who I watched with who's a guy also yesterday,

730
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 4: was like, WHOA, Forrest is kind of a giga Chad

731
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 4: And we were like, oh, I go, and he was like,

732
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 4: he really is just being an avoidant king. He's running

733
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 4: around town being avoidant and also just yeah, he's really

734
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 4: living out the male fantasy. And it also in every

735
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 4: scene that he's running that the landscape is so beautiful

736
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 4: but almost in a grotesque way where it's so oversaturated

737
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 4: my friends, that it kind of looked like a self

738
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 4: help book, like the cover of any book. Yes, And

739
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 4: I feel like those two things together make this sequence like, yeah,

740
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 4: I don't know, kind of a bizarre sequence.

741
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 3: Wow, men, men are so complicated. I was just like what,

742
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 3: because I think that that is one of those like

743
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 3: corny YouTube fifteen years ago things where if you change

744
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 3: the music and that sequence slightly, it becomes a totally

745
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: different energy. Like I don't know.

746
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 4: It was very grind set for sure.

747
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, he's a proto influencer. And at the end

748
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 3: he's like, oh, sorry, I did that for no reason.

749
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he starts having like followers just running behind him.

750
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: He has all these like journalists and stuff being like

751
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: are you doing this for animal rights, for women's rights,

752
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: for protesting this and this and that? And he's like no,

753
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: I just felt like running. Despite that, he inspires a

754
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: bunch of people along the way, a bumper sticker guy,

755
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: a T shirt designer, and then like a running cult

756
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: question Mark, and then one day he just decides to

757
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: stop running and he goes back home to Alabama. He

758
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 2: then gets a letter from Jenny inviting him to Savannah, Georgia,

759
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 2: which brings us to the present of him sitting at

760
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: the bus stop waiting for a bus, and the woman

761
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: who is now sitting next to him is like, you

762
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: don't need a bus. Henry Straight is right over there.

763
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 2: So then Forrest runs to Jenny's apartment and discovers that

764
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 2: she is a mother to a baby Hailey Joel Osmond

765
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: a friend at the show Baby Hailey.

766
00:41:51,520 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's so small, chicken nugget. He's so cute, it's insane.

767
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: And this is Forrest Junior because Forrest Gump is his father.

768
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: And then he like kind of interacts with Little Forest

769
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: a little bit while he's watching Burton Ernie. And then

770
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 2: Jenny tells Forrest that she is sick with some unknown virus.

771
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: I think it's implied to be HIV.

772
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 3: Is that that's like later confirmed, but they, I guess

773
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 3: wrote it out of the script.

774
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Forrest is like, well, come live with me.

775
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 2: I'll take care of you in Little Forest. So Jenny

776
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: moves back to Alabama with him, they get married. Lieutenant

777
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 2: Dan comes to the wedding.

778
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 4: Now sporting a crew cut and also a wife.

779
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 2: A crew cut and prosthetic legs, and a eye's wife

780
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: God or his fiance.

781
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 3: That the final Lieutenant Dan thing, I was like, do

782
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 3: not piss me off. That'sh I hate how the movie

783
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 3: resolves Lieutenant Dan's story where.

784
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 5: He's like, Okay, I've quote unquote fixed my disability and

785
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 5: if it weren't for capitalism, I never would have made

786
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 5: it through, and you're just like, ah, fuck you.

787
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 4: I also found that the choice to cast his wife

788
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 4: as an East Asian woman, maybe it was colorblindcasting doesn't

789
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 4: feel like it for some reason. It feels like it's

790
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 4: trying to say something. What it's saying, I don't know.

791
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 4: Makes me feel kind of strange, though I don't know,

792
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 4: I don't know how to explain it.

793
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: I also had that thought, I mean, yeah, we don't

794
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: know what the background of the character is. But I

795
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 3: feel like because we met Lieutenant Dan in Vietnam, and

796
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 3: that the movie seems to very intentionally never show us

797
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 3: a Vietnamese persons, they're just like, we know who they're fighting,

798
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 3: but it's an unseen and so that there's no opportunity

799
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 3: to empathize with anyone who isn't in the American military. Yeah,

800
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 3: that felt that felt pointed.

801
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 4: I don't know, and she's she has an American accent.

802
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 4: I think she's supposed to be American. Yeah, but like

803
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 4: in the context of Vitnams, so many soldiers bringing back

804
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 4: Vienname's wives and the discourse around that, I don't know.

805
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 4: It just felt like a really pointed casting choice that

806
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 4: was interesting to me.

807
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's hard to say because we don't know

808
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: anything about her. She says exactly one line, which is

809
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 2: high Forest, and then that's all we get from her,

810
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: and then the movie's basically over because shortly after this

811
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 2: Jenny passes away. Forest of course misses her so much, and.

812
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 3: Unfortunately Tom Hanks is really good in the scene at

813
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 3: the grave.

814
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 4: I know, no, it'll get you good.

815
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 2: It's good, it's tearful.

816
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 4: And then baby Haley, did you cry, Jamie?

817
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 3: I was, I was edging, but I didn't get that.

818
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 2: Way to describe being on the verge of tears. And

819
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: Forrest is raising little Forest and he seems to be

820
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: a very good dad. And then when little Forest is

821
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 2: like waiting for the bus to school. The feather from

822
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 2: the beginning comes back, it falls out of the book

823
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: and then it floats through the sky again blah blah blah.

824
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: The end, it reminded me of the feather hitting and

825
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 3: the it reminded me of of Jim Carrey Grinch, where

826
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: it like starts and ends with the snowflake.

827
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 4: Ah, and you follow the snowflake. I did like that.

828
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 4: The feather it goes it like the feather flies right

829
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 4: into the screen, then it goes bink.

830
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 3: I did like it. I was like, Okay, that's a

831
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 3: little bit as the guest magic.

832
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:56,479
Speaker 4: I liked that, very polar express. Well that's the movie.

833
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 2: Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to

834
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: discuss and we're back. Where shall we.

835
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 3: Start, Well, I would like to start, if possible, with

836
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 3: the adaptation context, because Maya, you talk about this so

837
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: eloquently and in such detail in your video, and I

838
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 3: honestly didn't even know until I watched your video a

839
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 3: couple of months ago that this was even based on

840
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 3: a book. If you would be so kind walk us

841
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 3: through some of the major changes made between the book

842
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 3: and the movie.

843
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 4: Yes, I was telling Kaitlin before, but uh, after I finish.

844
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 4: It's the kind of like writing an exam after I

845
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 4: finished a video, all the information just flies out of

846
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 4: my brain. I also rewatched my video, so I'm gonna

847
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 4: try and recap this is the best I can. But yes,

848
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 4: so essentially the movie is based on a novel by

849
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 4: an authorn, Winston Groom, who hadn't had a ton of

850
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 4: success in his life. I don't believe the book itself

851
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 4: either was wildly successful. But essentially, Winston Grim is a

852
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 4: Vietnam War veteran and he wrote this book that he

853
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,439
Speaker 4: designed to be kind of like a picuresque novel. And

854
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 4: for context, the picuresque novel is this like literary tradition,

855
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 4: where it's a story that follows a singular character through

856
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 4: a very wide array of events in their life, often

857
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 4: with a satirical tone. The example that I use in

858
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,919
Speaker 4: the video is Candide by Voltaire, which is basically about

859
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 4: a character who witnesses an absurd, uncanny amount of terrible

860
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 4: events in his life. But the book is written with

861
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 4: a really matter of fact tone, kind of almost comedic,

862
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 4: and it's supposed to be kind of pointing at the

863
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 4: fact that the world is a difficult place and we

864
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 4: need to nurture it instead of instead of ignoring it

865
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 4: and believing the world is just like this positive, amazing place.

866
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 4: And I'd say Forrestcump the book is pretty similar. Forrest

867
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 4: Gump is very different in the book. He's he physically

868
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 4: stands out a lot. He's supposed to be six book six,

869
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 4: a very big guy. I think he's like supposed to

870
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 4: be like two hundred to three hundred pounds. He's like big, yeah.

871
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 4: And he's very different from Forrest in the movie, mainly

872
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,479
Speaker 4: in the sense that he's a very imperfect character. He

873
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 4: has sex with multiple women, including Jenny. In the book,

874
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 4: he's horny, he does drugs a few times throughout the book.

875
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 4: He is like one aware of racism, you know, when

876
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,479
Speaker 4: he brings up the KKK at the beginning. He talks

877
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 4: about how his grandma named him Forrest, but how she

878
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 4: thinks that the KKK are a bunch of no goods.

879
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 4: So he's aware of racism, but he also is capable

880
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 4: of being racist, Like he is quite ignorant when he

881
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 4: goes to Vietnam and he talks about Vietnamese people, which

882
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 4: who are completely excluded from the movie. But in the

883
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 4: context of the book, he refers to them as a slur.

884
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 4: He goes to China and he ends up saving Mao

885
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 4: Zedong from drowning, which I thought was a funny plot

886
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 4: point which really pisses off his superiors, but is also

887
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 4: a little bit racist about Chinese people. He meets people

888
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 4: in New Guinea. He's a little he's he's ignorant, he's

889
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 4: a small town boy, right.

890
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 3: You mentioned this in your video, like where he's a

891
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 3: more realistic product of his environment than movie forest.

892
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. And he's most importantly, he's a lot less

893
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 4: juvenile than the Forest in the movie. And I thought

894
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 4: it was interesting when you had referred to the scene

895
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 4: between Jenny and Forrest as like sexual assault, because I

896
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 4: think in the books it feels a lot less like that,

897
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 4: because Forest is less infantile. You know, he has like

898
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 4: learning impairments and intellectual disabilities, but he's he's still very

899
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 4: much an adult and doesn't have the mind of a child.

900
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 4: And so I thought that was a really interesting take

901
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 4: and accurate. And yeah, and I think overall the book

902
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 4: just has a bit more of a satirical edge to

903
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 4: it than the movie does. And is it Roberts Mechis yeah,

904
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 4: Robert Yeah. Roberts and Mecchus and Eric Roth, who is

905
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 4: a screenwriter, have been very explicit about the fact that

906
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 4: they don't like the book, which I think is wildly disrespectful.

907
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 4: Winston Groom has been like extremely gracious about he's passed away,

908
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 4: but really gracious about the adaptation, was really excited about it.

909
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 4: And it feels like they just kind of disrespected the

910
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 4: source material a lot.

911
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 3: And they screwed ai amount of money too, like there

912
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 3: was like a hole.

913
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 4: They screwed him out of money.

914
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 3: It's wild and he was very nice.

915
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 4: About that too. He sounds like he was actually a

916
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 4: really nice guy. God and Roberts and Machis has just

917
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 4: been very proud about the fact that he didn't finish

918
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 4: the book, but essentially he felt like the book had

919
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 4: no meaning and so he wanted to imbue it with meaning,

920
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 4: which I think is really interesting because the book has

921
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 4: a lot of meaning. I think it takes this approach

922
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 4: that Winston Groom has basically said that he wanted the

923
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 4: story to be about human dignity and preserving dignity in

924
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 4: a world where many undignified things happened to you, and

925
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 4: like happen around you. And I think that that's definitely

926
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 4: the case. Forrest doesn't constantly succeed in the book. He

927
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 4: undergoes a lot of hardship. One of the biggest changes

928
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 4: they make is that Forest actually gets wrapped it into

929
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 4: the army in the book, and I believe he enlists

930
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 4: in the movie.

931
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, he voluntarily enlists. Yeah in the.

932
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 4: Movie, Yeah, which is a huge thing. He flunks out

933
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 4: of college, Like there's there's so many things that happened

934
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 4: to him that are upsetting, and it feels like movie

935
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 4: Forrest doesn't stuffer those same things. And Yeah, generally, just

936
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 4: the movie essentially just sanitizes the book as Hollywood is

937
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 4: so wants to do, and turns it from this kind

938
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 4: of like satire about indignity into dignity to kind of

939
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,479
Speaker 4: being a celebration of America and American history and doing

940
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 4: this like really bizarre quick survey of the America's twentieth century,

941
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 4: hitting all these like major points in American culture, like

942
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 4: huge touchdowns of American culture, like oh, adding in John

943
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 4: Lennon or Elvis Presley. At one point, Forrest teaches him

944
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 4: how to do that silly dance move he did and

945
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 4: just adding in these unnecessary things jfka. All this stuff

946
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 4: to kind of wink and nod at the audience is

947
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 4: very Pestiche kind of just like a collage of different

948
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 4: moments without any real meaning behind them. So I think

949
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 4: it's interesting because I think they took a lot of

950
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 4: the meaning out of the book, right.

951
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 3: They like unsatirized it. It seems like they unsatirized it.

952
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 4: And I think the number one difference between them is

953
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 4: the opening line in the movie. He says life is

954
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 4: like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're

955
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 4: gonna get, which I've always thought was strange because you

956
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 4: do know what you're gonna get. You're gonna get chocolate.

957
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 2: It's on the box, yeah, and it's all yeah, but

958
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 2: you don't know if it's gonna be full of a

959
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: cherry or peanut, butter or caramel.

960
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 4: Have you guys had pot of gold? When they have

961
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 4: the little key which tells you exactly yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

962
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 4: maybe this is Alabama chocolate that I'm not let me

963
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 4: let us know.

964
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 3: He's got a box of Russell Stover and labeled yeah yeah.

965
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 4: But in the movie he says that, and in the

966
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 4: book he says being an Idiot is no box of chocolates,

967
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 4: which is the complete in verse of tone. Right. The

968
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 4: movie takes a really positive, really optimistic kind of a

969
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 4: political approach to life, whereas the book is actively engaging

970
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:05,959
Speaker 4: with the difficulties that Forest faces as someone with a disability, right,

971
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 4: And so yeah, I think that's the general gist of

972
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 4: the adaptation, but there's so much more to be said.

973
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: There's I mean, yeah, I truly would recommend everyone listening

974
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 3: go watch the video as well, because they're I mean,

975
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 3: just the specifics that you were pulling about. How you

976
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 3: know in the book, yeah, that he's specifically condemning the

977
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 3: Vietnam War, and in the movie they literally rip the

978
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 3: microphone away from him, so you can never really have

979
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 3: a definitive statement on the movie's opinion of the Vietnam War.

980
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 4: I think they're trying to talk about like military suppression

981
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 4: and censorship, but it's like, how convenient you know.

982
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 3: That this is the Yeah, the one it felt like

983
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 3: this movie was I don't know, I mean, in that context,

984
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 3: it felt like the movie was trying to, I guess,

985
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 3: strip back any of the intended meaning of the book

986
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 3: as you described it, and also really punish people within

987
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 3: the world of the movie who were seeking meaning that

988
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 3: was not conservative and conventional. I feel like the one

989
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 3: thing that stuck out to me is that we really

990
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 3: only meet like two men who are like explicitly progressive

991
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,240
Speaker 3: or leftist or whatever. One of them is Abby hoffin

992
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 3: the other one is beating up Jenny. The only guy

993
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 3: we really meet who's a fictional character is like this

994
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 3: horrific abuser who's a black panther alive, right, and so

995
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 3: it's just like making him out to see, which you

996
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 3: know absolutely happens in those spaces, but it's like you

997
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 3: get nothing with the exception of Jenny's father, you get

998
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: nothing but really empathetic portraits of people who are living

999
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 3: like not countercultural lives. And so and the fact that

1000
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 3: Jenny's whole character seems predicated on the movie has this

1001
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 3: agenda of like getting back at her for doing anything.

1002
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,479
Speaker 3: It seems like, and I think you mentioned the video

1003
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 3: as well, her character is that is like not the

1004
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 3: ending for that character in the book.

1005
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, very importantly. In the book, Jenny does not die,

1006
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 4: She does not have a virus. She actually ends up

1007
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 4: with another man. Forrest has sex with another woman and

1008
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 4: they have a child together, and he essentially gives the

1009
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 4: child to Jenny because he the quote is that he

1010
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 4: doesn't want the child to have a pea brain for

1011
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 4: a daddy, which is heartbreaking. But in the movie, it's

1012
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 4: like Forest is supposed to have an IQ of seventy,

1013
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 4: have this extremely childlike worldview, but then is now a

1014
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 4: single father raising this child spectacularly on his own, which

1015
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 4: I'm not saying is not possible at all, but it

1016
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 4: just it feels like a really interesting shift between the

1017
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 4: two realities.

1018
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 2: And then also in your video, I say, you point

1019
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 2: out the various other ways in which the movie adaptation

1020
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 2: differs from the book in regards to Jenny's character where

1021
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 2: the movie it seems, gives and to be clear, I

1022
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: have not read the book, so I'm pulling a lot

1023
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 2: of this information from your video essay, but it seems

1024
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: as though the movie does give Jenny more presence in

1025
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 2: the story. But it also does this thing where it

1026
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 2: basically transfers all of the quote unquote vices that Forrest

1027
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 2: has in the book, or what like respectability politics and

1028
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: conservative values would deem to be vices, and it transfers

1029
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 2: those to Jenny in the movie where, for example, we

1030
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 2: see her doing a bunch of drugs.

1031
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,760
Speaker 3: She's the only character we know who's done drugs except

1032
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 3: I guess maybe Lieutenant Dan for a while, right, But.

1033
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 2: We actively see her doing coke. It's implied that she

1034
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: does heroin, and we also see her doing what might

1035
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 2: be acid. Again, I'm such a square when it comes

1036
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: to drugs. I don't know which ones are which, but

1037
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 2: she's doing veriou drugs. It's implied that she it maybe

1038
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 2: has promiscuous sex or at the very least has multiple

1039
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 2: romantic partners.

1040
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 4: She may be also doing sex work by the end unclear.

1041
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 3: Oh right, because we see her she gets kicked out

1042
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 3: of college for being in a Playboy spread, and if

1043
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 3: I'm remembering correctly, they add in the fact that she

1044
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 3: was being sexually abused by her father for the movie,

1045
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 3: which again don't.

1046
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 4: Do that well. It's fascinating because Forrest in the books

1047
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 4: is sexually assaulted by a female boarder at his mom's

1048
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 4: house when he's a kid, or like I think he's

1049
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 4: a teenager.

1050
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: Which is left out of the movie, which.

1051
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,959
Speaker 3: Is left out of the movie, and then they give

1052
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 3: that to Jenny. I do feel like I don't know,

1053
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 3: I guess I do feel confident in saying this because

1054
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 3: it's just men top to bottom at the height of

1055
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 3: this project. I do feel like that's done to quote

1056
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 3: unquote justify how her life goes. Is like a survivor

1057
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 3: of CSA is fucked like for their entire lives, and

1058
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 3: that all of these things. I mean, it just feels

1059
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 3: like the movie is just punishing her so thoroughly. And

1060
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 3: the only times in her life or in the plot

1061
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 3: where she catches a break is when she is basically

1062
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 3: playing the part of Forest's wife and like is living

1063
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 3: with him kind of in a live in girlfriend's situation.

1064
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 3: And I know you mentioned it in your video too,

1065
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 3: but when they have sex towards the end of the movie,

1066
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 3: she's wearing this like virginal white gown. She dies in

1067
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 3: a white gown. It just all feels so like, I

1068
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 3: don't know, like she's being redeemed, yeah yeah, and that

1069
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 3: it's like all of this is happening to her to

1070
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 3: remind us how good of a person movie Forest is

1071
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 3: while punishing Jenny for any countercultural instinct or abuse she

1072
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 3: sustained as a child, which is not how the movie

1073
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 3: treats Forest at all.

1074
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 4: I also think it's part of this kind of trend

1075
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 4: of the nineties and two thousands of this like tortured

1076
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 4: angel trope that happened I think a lot with women.

1077
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 4: I don't know if you guys remember so many like

1078
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 4: indie songs from the two thousands where they be like

1079
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 4: she's got blue bruises on her.

1080
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 2: Oh.

1081
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 4: It was like just very like very voyeuristic, like man,

1082
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 4: oh I can save you girl kind of songwriting.

1083
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 3: Kind of decembris vibes to be yeah, yeah, yeah, And.

1084
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 4: This feels similarly of its time for this kind of

1085
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 4: like helpless, tortured, fragile bird woman that you need to

1086
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 4: go save and you have to save her all the time.

1087
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 4: But like she's so she's so do you guys swear

1088
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 4: on this podcast? Oh yes, she's so fucked up?

1089
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 2: Yes for sure.

1090
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 4: So I think it's really it's really of this era

1091
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 4: in that way as well.

1092
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 2: That and then it's like her, as you point out

1093
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 2: in your video, it's her you know, quote unquote impure

1094
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 2: behavior is largely there to emphasize how morally pure Forrest

1095
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 2: Gump is, by contrast, and it's only after she accepts

1096
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 2: the role of like wife and mother, like a very

1097
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 2: traditional kind of that she is like redeemed, and then

1098
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 2: she suddenly has the same haircut that Forrest Gump's mom

1099
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 2: has throughout the same movie.

1100
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 3: Like, oh, and she dies in the same bed. It's implied.

1101
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:12,919
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

1102
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 4: And what I thought was interesting, and I was gonna

1103
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 4: say it earlier too, is there are no signs like

1104
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 4: when Forest's mom and Jenny die, and there's like these

1105
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 4: parallels in the scenes. There are no signs of illness

1106
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 4: on them. Forest's mom, true, Chris's mom dies of cancer

1107
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 4: and there's not a sign and like some people obviously

1108
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 4: do die of cancer and don't look ill, but Jenny

1109
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 4: as well dying of what is.

1110
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:40,439
Speaker 3: Like complications do a yeah, like die beautiful.

1111
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is like horrific virus has an extreme physical

1112
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 4: toll on the body. And Jenny looks so porcelain when

1113
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 4: she dies, Like her hair is like voluminous and blonde,

1114
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 4: and it's just like, I don't know, I thought that

1115
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 4: was an interesting omission.

1116
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: Very peculiar.

1117
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1118
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 2: I also want to talk just a little bit more

1119
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 2: about like the power dynamic and the like imbalance of

1120
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 2: power in that relationship of like someone who has an

1121
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 2: intellectual disability being with someone who does not have an

1122
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 2: intellectual disability in a sexual or romantic context, which that

1123
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 2: power dynamic is certainly worth examining. And then even on

1124
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 2: top of that, there are different scenes in the movie

1125
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 2: where Jenny does things that, like whether or not she

1126
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 2: obtained consent from Forrest is very much up for debate.

1127
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 2: There's the scene in the dorm room, which we described,

1128
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 2: and then I would argue also when she comes into

1129
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: his room toward the end of the movie, when she's

1130
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 2: wearing that like white gown and she gets into bed

1131
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 2: with him and they have sex, I think consent there

1132
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: is also questionable. But the movie, of course is just

1133
01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 2: like no, of course Forrest is consenting to this, and

1134
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 2: of course any man when next to a beautiful woman

1135
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 2: would of course consent to any sexual thing that might

1136
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 2: happen kind of thing. And I never really picked up

1137
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 2: on that as a child, of course, like you know.

1138
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 3: Well, sure, because this is being presented as a beautiful

1139
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 3: love story.

1140
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 2: Right, and I really noticed that on this viewing. And

1141
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 2: I want to be perfectly clear that I am not

1142
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 2: suggesting that people with intellectual disabilities or who are neurodivergent

1143
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 2: are not able to give consent or to have consenting

1144
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 2: sexual relationships. I'm talking more about the power dynamic, which is,

1145
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 2: you know, similar to when like, you know, a twenty

1146
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 2: year old dating a forty five year old, and even

1147
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 2: if they are giving consent, it's still a power imbalance,

1148
01:02:54,840 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 2: whether based on level of life experience or emotional mature

1149
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 2: or like wisdom versus naivete. And I know that like

1150
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 2: people's mileage on this varies. It's a very complicated topic

1151
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 2: and I don't want to trivialize it or anything like that,

1152
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 2: but there is inherently an imbalance of power in these

1153
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 2: different scenarios, and my criticism is that the movie doesn't

1154
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 2: really acknowledge that, and that the movie does show what

1155
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: I would especially in that dorm room scene. I think

1156
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 2: unequivocally in the dorm room scene is an instance of

1157
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 2: sexual assault that the movie does not treat that way

1158
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 2: at all, and instead ends that scene on like a

1159
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 2: jokey button about him prematurely ejaculating and ruining the roommate's

1160
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 2: bathrobe and twist. The roommate was awake the whole time

1161
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 2: during this entire interaction. So that's what I take issue with.

1162
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 2: I just want to make that perfectly clear.

1163
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 4: It's a romantic depiction of yeah, yeah dynamic.

1164
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're totally right, Kitlin, that like the power dynamic

1165
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 3: is not even acknowledged, and that that feels like a

1166
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 3: very glaring and could be adjusted pretty easily. But because

1167
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 3: all these adaptation changes are made, I don't know if

1168
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 3: any consulting was done in terms of presenting neurodivergence on

1169
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 3: screen or anything like that. I would assume no, but

1170
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I would also assume that I was

1171
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: looking to see if there had been more written about this,

1172
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 3: and I wasn't really able to find anything, which is

1173
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 3: very frustrating. I have found a few, I mean, they're

1174
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 3: mostly personal essays, many from autistic writers who are like

1175
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 3: I mean, there's just a wide array of takes on Forest,

1176
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 3: where there are certain nonprofits related to autism not autism

1177
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 3: speaks that have sort of like claimed Forest as their own.

1178
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 3: But of course it's like not necessary, that's not stated

1179
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 3: in the movie. So I don't know, I mean, this movie,

1180
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 3: it's absolutely baffling to me. I have like a quick

1181
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 3: quote from a writer that like really embraced Forest and

1182
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 3: specifically the movie interpretation of Forest. This is from a

1183
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 3: website Slash writer a is for Ifa not Autism dot

1184
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 3: Com from a post she wrote called autism on Screen

1185
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 3: Forest Gump. I just wanted to share this. Interestingly, the

1186
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 3: film depicts Forest in a more realistic light than in

1187
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,439
Speaker 3: the book. Whilst he is described in both as having

1188
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 3: a low IQ in the seventies, Forrest is not portrayed

1189
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 3: a stereotyped mathematical savant in the film. Finally, a bit

1190
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 3: of realism. Forrest's tail truly shows us. How as I've

1191
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 3: often remarked on this blog, you should never allow autism

1192
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 3: to hold you back. And autism diagnosis can be a challenge, yes,

1193
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 3: but it does not mean you can't live a normal,

1194
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 3: happy and fulfilling life. And then there's physical disability, which

1195
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 3: I feel far more confident saying this movie completely mishandles

1196
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 3: actually crazy. That leg brace is falling off that whole

1197
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 3: I mean, that's like the first huge example, right of Like,

1198
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 3: as Forrest is running, it's his disability. His physical disability

1199
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 3: is made out to be basically metaphorical. Yeah, and that

1200
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 3: you know, as he gains confidence and he outruns his bullies,

1201
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 3: his leg braces fall away, and it's that's the last

1202
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 3: time his physical disability ever comes up, which is all

1203
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 3: of these classic, like ablest tropes of like a disability

1204
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 3: as something that's inherently holding you back and is making

1205
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 3: you suffer and needs to be overcome as opposed to

1206
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 3: just a facet of one's life.

1207
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, movie really flubs it. I mean going back to

1208
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 2: Forrest Gump's intellectual disability and the way that, as you

1209
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 2: discuss in your video essay, Maya, is all about like

1210
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 2: the conservative right co opting this movie because of all

1211
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 2: of its like conservative values, because it's showing all of

1212
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 2: these historical events and like American iconography in a way

1213
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 2: that is making no commentary or criticism about various things

1214
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 2: such as the Vietnam War, segregation, systemic racism, things like that.

1215
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 4: And it's this is.

1216
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 2: Able to happen because of the point of view character

1217
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 2: of Forrest Gump, who sees everything with such a naive

1218
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 2: point of view. He's always saying something like, well, for

1219
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 2: no particular reason, XYZ happened. And the way that he

1220
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 2: just he'll allude to these things oppression or corruption or exploitation,

1221
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 2: things that have happened throughout American history. It'll be alluding

1222
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 2: to them without acknowledging them. Because it's just like Forrest

1223
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 2: being like, remember this, remember this thing that happened. I

1224
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 2: have nothing to say about it, which is also just

1225
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 2: the inherent ableism in that in suggesting that someone with

1226
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 2: an intellectual disability couldn't understand things like racial discrimination and

1227
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 2: war are bad. That he's just like, I don't know

1228
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 2: these things are happening, but I don't know anything about it.

1229
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 2: I think there's just like intense ableism inherent in that.

1230
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 3: I agree. I think, yeah, that I had a note

1231
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 3: that like for me that it felt both ableist and

1232
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:32,719
Speaker 3: condescending to anyone watching the movie where there's a line

1233
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 3: shortly after he enlists I think he's at basic training

1234
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 3: that goes something like being in the army is easy.

1235
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 3: All you have to do is be completely pliant and

1236
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 3: do what anyone tells you to do, and you'll do great.

1237
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 3: And that is like implied that that is inherent to

1238
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 3: his like intellectual disability, that he is servile and does

1239
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 3: what he's told, which is certainly not true, and also

1240
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 3: that that is the I feel like the underlying message

1241
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 3: of the movie, and like part of the way the

1242
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,640
Speaker 3: way he intellectual disability is used narratively is to like

1243
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 3: telegraph this message that like if you just like do

1244
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 3: what you're told and like stay on the path you've

1245
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 3: been told to stay on, you could randomly become a millionaire,

1246
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 3: you could be very successful, you'll cruise through life. But

1247
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 3: if you're like Jenny and you push against anything, you

1248
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 3: will die in a horrible way. And like, it just

1249
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 3: feels like the way that his intellectual disability is used

1250
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 3: in the narrative is insulting to the disabled and also

1251
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 3: insulting to the audience. And just like reinforces how nothing

1252
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 3: the movie's messages. I mean, it sticks out, especially how

1253
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 3: unwilling it is to take a stance on the Vietnam War,

1254
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 3: which is arguably the easiest American war to take a

1255
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 3: stance on against America. I was like, if you can't

1256
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,879
Speaker 3: do that, you're fucking cooked, dude. Like Yeah.

1257
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 4: The producer Wendy Feinerman, who's the person who got this

1258
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 4: movie greenlit because she's the one who brought the book

1259
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 4: to the studio, she said that her greatest achievement from

1260
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 4: the movie was making this like a movie for the military.

1261
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 4: Basically I like kind of talk about this in the

1262
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 4: video as well. But also the young boy who plays Forrest.

1263
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 4: I'm forgetting the actor's name. I think it's Michael Connor.

1264
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 3: Jeffries, Oh, yes, yeah, the young Forest.

1265
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:25,679
Speaker 4: Yeah. He basically he enlisted in the Iraq War because

1266
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 4: he was so inspired by the idea of Lieutenant Dan

1267
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 4: dying with honor on the battlefield.

1268
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 3: And it's like, I wish you'd read the book.

1269
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 4: Fascinating that a movie that's essentially propagating the military is

1270
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 4: taking from source material of a Vietnam War veteran. And

1271
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 4: in the book, like explicitly, Forest states multiple times that

1272
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 4: he thinks, I'm gonna slightly misquote it, but I'll paraphrase.

1273
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 4: He thinks that the war's a load of shit. Yeah,

1274
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 4: And that's clearly coming from Winston Groom. And so for

1275
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 4: the movie to be pro military is like, to me

1276
01:10:57,920 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 4: quite disgusting.

1277
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially because I mean, like you were saying, Winston

1278
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,519
Speaker 3: Groom was a veteran of that war, so to change

1279
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 3: his specific opinion on it is insulting to him and

1280
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 3: insulting to any veteran. I mean, the movie stands on veterans.

1281
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 3: I also found very vague. I guess this sort of

1282
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 3: gets into the conversation around Lieutenant Dan. Also, I just

1283
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:26,520
Speaker 3: wanted to touch on I mean stating the obvious non disabled

1284
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 3: actors are playing disabled parts as is still so common.

1285
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 3: But with Lieutenant Dan, before we even get to the

1286
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 3: conversation around ability, I did think it was more than

1287
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 3: I guess I expected of the movie to at least

1288
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 3: portray a veteran who had been essentially discarded by society

1289
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 3: after they weren't considered quote unquote useful anymore. I think

1290
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 3: that's something that is very under discussed in movies, and

1291
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 3: we could get into Jimmy, how many veterans end up

1292
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 3: on hows how many like? It's stuff I did reporting

1293
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 3: on as well. So I was like, Okay, I do

1294
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 3: appreciate that there is some representation of a veteran who

1295
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 3: has been left behind because that's such a common occurrence.

1296
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 3: But again, it's like the way that the story resolves,

1297
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,679
Speaker 3: that is, I think you mentioned this in your video.

1298
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 3: May yet like that a lot of the like Lieutenant

1299
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 3: Dan's I guess counseling of Forrest, they flip that. So

1300
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 3: Forrest is teaching Lieutenant Dan, and the way that he

1301
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 3: lifts himself up is via capitalism, via a business. He

1302
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 3: picks up his bootstraps right, right, and it's it's not.

1303
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 4: Like you got shoes and prosthetic legs, so.

1304
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 3: Right, And then again it's like using disability to make

1305
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,480
Speaker 3: a statement about like, well, he's quote unquote less disabled

1306
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 3: than we've seen him in previous sequences, and he's happier

1307
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 3: than ever, and isn't that great? And it just feels

1308
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 3: I don't know, I was really frustrated. It felt like

1309
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 3: with Lieutenant Dan, I thought it was like a real

1310
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:07,720
Speaker 3: opportunity to reintroduce his character. But then they don't, you know,

1311
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 3: take that opportunity to interrogate any system, but they do

1312
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 3: portray something very common, and then they're like, well, I

1313
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 3: guess disabled veterans should simply pick themselves up by their

1314
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 3: bootstraps and then they'll be bazillionaires.

1315
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just need to invest in Apple and they'll

1316
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 2: be fine in like nineteen eighty.

1317
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:31,520
Speaker 4: It's fascinating because he they kind of attribute his hardship

1318
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 4: and his obstacles to kind of like, well, he does

1319
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,760
Speaker 4: drink too much and fornicate too much right then, and

1320
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 4: his like moroseness after the war and his frustration mainly

1321
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 4: semming from the fact that he didn't die on the

1322
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 4: battlefield instead of like oh, this war was really horrible, pointless,

1323
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 4: disorganized and evil, you know. And I think the only

1324
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 4: kind of time they mentioned how idiotic the Americans were

1325
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 4: in doing this war was when they kind of briefly

1326
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 4: mentioned that the Americans attacking themselves, like when they get

1327
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:02,879
Speaker 4: start getting balmed. I believe it's like an American contingent

1328
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 4: that's balming them. And that's kind of the only time

1329
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 4: is even hinted at. I don't know how ridiculous the

1330
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 4: war was in terms of like organization, let alone all

1331
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:14,560
Speaker 4: the other things, but right, yeah.

1332
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 3: It's so like Lieutenantan is a tricky character because yeah,

1333
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 3: there were there were beats that worked and then beats

1334
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,639
Speaker 3: that didn't. I also think that the movie going very

1335
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 3: very very out of its way that like, in spite

1336
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 3: of being disillusioned, ultimately, I think Lieutenant Dan does come

1337
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 3: all the way back around to being an American patriot again.

1338
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:34,800
Speaker 3: Even when he's on the shrimp boat, you can see

1339
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 3: on his wheelchair he still has like pro America stickers

1340
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,759
Speaker 3: and stuff. And I was like, really at this point,

1341
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 3: catch like I was, so, I was like, okay, so

1342
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 3: they they don't want to disabuse you from the idea

1343
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 3: that ultimately being a patriot will you know present the

1344
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 3: best result.

1345
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 2: The religious aspect of it too, where you know, it

1346
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 2: suggested that he if he had any like faith in

1347
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 2: Christian God prior to this, he lost it because of

1348
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 2: the events of the war and being robbed of his

1349
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 2: destiny to die on the battlefield as a great American

1350
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: soldier and patriot, and he's become disillusioned with the idea

1351
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 2: of you know, God and religion and things like that.

1352
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 2: And then there's this scene where he swims in the ocean.

1353
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 2: He's like swimming towards the heavens quote unquote, and Forest

1354
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 2: is like, I think he made his peace with God.

1355
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 2: And this is after he's become a successful shrimper and

1356
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 2: stuff a shrimper.

1357
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 3: And the only reason they had the successful shrimper business

1358
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 3: is because Forest prays on it. And also it reminded

1359
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:53,519
Speaker 3: me of Gosh, the scene weirdly from Baslerman's Elvis, where

1360
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 3: it's just like one white guy at a majority Black

1361
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 3: Baptist church praying and then his wish comes true. Same

1362
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 3: deal with for us.

1363
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 4: Hey, I'm really impressed you remember a scene from first

1364
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,799
Speaker 4: of all, how do you remember something that was nothing

1365
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 4: but visual and auditory cacophony number one.

1366
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 3: Also Tom Hanks. Wow, Tom is always oh yeah eah.

1367
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 3: That was probably the beginning that predates Pinocchio. I think,

1368
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 3: oh god, dude, it's bad. Really. I don't know if

1369
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:32,720
Speaker 3: it's like he's taking advice from Chad. I don't know

1370
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 3: what's going on with him, but all is not well

1371
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:37,200
Speaker 3: in the Hank's household.

1372
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 4: Chad Hanks feels like an SNL's git. He can't be real.

1373
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:44,639
Speaker 4: It's crazy.

1374
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 2: Whatever happened to Colin?

1375
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 3: You know, I know where's he at. I'm assuming he's

1376
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 3: on some TV show that millions of people watch and

1377
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 3: I've never heard of. That's where I feel like he's

1378
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:54,679
Speaker 3: usually at.

1379
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 4: I feel like you're definitely right.

1380
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 3: My mom knows where Colin Hanks's I can tell you

1381
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 3: that much. Obsessed anyways, but fact to Lieutenant Dan, yeah,

1382
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 3: I think again. His disability is used very cynically by

1383
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,560
Speaker 3: the plot. You know, played obviously by Gary sindeis a

1384
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 3: nable bodied actor. But again, it's a complicated issue. I

1385
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 3: found an essay from twenty nineteen on Forbes by friend

1386
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 3: of the cast Kristin Lopez, who is a fabulous writer

1387
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 3: who's written extensively on movies and ableism, which is why

1388
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 3: she wrote this essay about Forest Gump and ableism. So

1389
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 3: I just wanted to share a few passages from that

1390
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 3: will link the whole essay, but it's essentially about her

1391
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:42,120
Speaker 3: complicated relationship with the character of Lieutenant Dan. So she says, quote,

1392
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 3: when I share that I'm a disabled writer, I often

1393
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:46,640
Speaker 3: hear the same handful of questions, one of which is,

1394
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 3: what's the first movie you saw with a disabled character

1395
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:52,599
Speaker 3: in it? The answer is easy, Forest Gump. But where

1396
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 3: I identified with Forrest Gump wasn't with its title character. Now,

1397
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,599
Speaker 3: before I saw another actual person in a wheelchair other

1398
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 3: than myself, I saw Lueutenant Dan Taylor. Lieutenant Dan crosses

1399
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 3: off several of the boxes we see in disabled narratives today.

1400
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 3: Lieutenant Dan is a white male disabled late in life,

1401
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 3: in this case, during the Vietnam War. The audience is

1402
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 3: introduced to him as a dominating example of masculinity, and

1403
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 3: this heroism is all but eliminated after Dan loses his legs.

1404
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 3: Vietnam stories are their own subgenre in the world of

1405
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 3: disabled narratives, but the bulk of them coming several years

1406
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 3: after that event. In the eighties and nineties, in nearly

1407
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:31,639
Speaker 3: all of them. Men disabled in the war are bitter

1408
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 3: and resentful. They aren't necessarily bitter about the society that

1409
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,400
Speaker 3: leaves them without shelter or accessibility, but how the average

1410
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:41,799
Speaker 3: American has responded to the war themselves. In these movies,

1411
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,519
Speaker 3: the disability is meant to show how callous humanity has

1412
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:48,639
Speaker 3: become to veterans, not the disabled, per se. And then

1413
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 3: she goes on to say that she still has a

1414
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:54,719
Speaker 3: very strong connection to this character, specifically the moment where

1415
01:18:55,240 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 3: Lieutenant Dan was speaking to a priest and and you know,

1416
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 3: is told that God is listening. She says, quote Dan's

1417
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 3: irritation at the ablest rhetoric of religion or enable person's

1418
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 3: belief that everyone who is disabled will be cured upon

1419
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 3: death is understandable. I've had several conversations just like this.

1420
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 3: When you've never seen yourself represented, you latch onto the

1421
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,320
Speaker 3: first thing you see, for good or bad. Twenty five

1422
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 3: years later, I still put down Lieutenant Dan as one

1423
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 3: of my favorite characters, but I understand his limitations and

1424
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:27,840
Speaker 3: failings as far as disabled representation goes. He doesn't posit

1425
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 3: anything new. His depiction is common but in a landscape

1426
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 3: where representation remains so limited, the few good ideas Dan

1427
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 3: is given shaped who I was and reminded me of

1428
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:39,639
Speaker 3: what I expected movies to push for in the future.

1429
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 4: I think it's like a start, you know. And I

1430
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 4: think many aspects of this movie are so complicated because

1431
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 4: they are a star in some direction, even if they're

1432
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 4: quite imperfect, I mean really important context as well as

1433
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:56,000
Speaker 4: in the book, Dan isn't his lieutenant. He meets Dan

1434
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 4: just in the hospital and his whole face is mutilated,

1435
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 4: like he's he's been severely injured on his face, and

1436
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:07,480
Speaker 4: so he doesn't have the opportunity to conceal his disability.

1437
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,599
Speaker 4: At the end of Forrest Gump, Forrest runs away with

1438
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 4: Dan and an orangutang, which can't I can't even get

1439
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 4: into that, but they like run off together.

1440
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 3: Now, why would they cut that?

1441
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 4: I know, what the heck? But yeah, Dan's not like

1442
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 4: reabsorbed as a member of sobsidety. He can't, you know,

1443
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 4: kind of switch. He can't conceal himself, and so I

1444
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 4: think that that's also kind of an interesting change made.

1445
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,720
Speaker 4: But I totally understand that the empathy with Dan and

1446
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 4: finding him complicated right.

1447
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like we see so many cases of that.

1448
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 3: I know, we've talked about it a lot on the

1449
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 3: show before, of flawed representation. If it's the first representation

1450
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 3: you encounter, of course that you're going to feel a

1451
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 3: type of way about it. So I supposed to, yeah,

1452
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 3: acknowledge that because I think Dan is again there's a

1453
01:20:56,680 --> 01:21:00,040
Speaker 3: lot of missed opportunities with that character, not just in

1454
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 3: regards to disability, but in regards to veterans and in

1455
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:06,760
Speaker 3: regards to like a clear opportunity to be like, the

1456
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:10,800
Speaker 3: Vietnam War was bad. It's just like, it is so

1457
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:13,479
Speaker 3: wild to me that a movie like that made this

1458
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 3: much fucking money didn't have the like balls to say

1459
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 3: that the Vietnam War was bad.

1460
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,880
Speaker 2: Anyways, Well, that's why the movie made money.

1461
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:24,000
Speaker 3: That's true.

1462
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 4: Well, it's also coming after a whole genre of movies

1463
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 4: that are Vietnam War Apocalypse now p Full Metal Jacket.

1464
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:32,640
Speaker 4: I think it's right.

1465
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I forgot to bring this up during our conversation

1466
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:41,679
Speaker 3: about Jenny. But because Tom Hanks, Robin Wright, and Robert

1467
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 3: Zebeciz were just on a tour together for this movie

1468
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 3: that I don't know, I don't I don't know anyone

1469
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 3: who saw it here here, that's such a It also

1470
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 3: just sounds like Robert Zebecca's phoning it in, like here,

1471
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 3: here's this He's.

1472
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 4: Been phoning it in here.

1473
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 3: Oh God. But because obviously this team was reuniting, Forrest

1474
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 3: Gump was coming up a lot on the press tour,

1475
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:10,640
Speaker 3: and a Variety interviewer asked Robin Wright about sort of

1476
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:15,080
Speaker 3: this backlash to the Jenny character over time. So the

1477
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:19,479
Speaker 3: question was there are some different takes on Jenny, including

1478
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 3: that she was punished for her choices, which were reflective

1479
01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 3: of the choices of many young women in a generation

1480
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 3: that had social and economic liberty for the first time.

1481
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,800
Speaker 3: She chooses a free, willing life and she dies. There's

1482
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 3: a sense that this is kind of an anti feminist role.

1483
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 3: What do you think, Robin Wright, who the only thing

1484
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 3: I can really say for her here is like, this

1485
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 3: is a very unfortunate two men to be sitting next

1486
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:45,599
Speaker 3: to while being put on the spot about this, But

1487
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 3: Robin Wright replies, no, it's not about that. People have

1488
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:53,600
Speaker 3: said she's a voldemort to Forest. I wouldn't choose that

1489
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 3: as a reference, but she was kind of selfish. I

1490
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 3: don't think it's a punishment that she gets aids she

1491
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 3: was so he's remiscuous. That was the selfishness that she

1492
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 3: did to Forest. He was in love with her from

1493
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 3: day one, and she was just flighty and running and

1494
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:11,040
Speaker 3: doing coke and hooking up with a black panther. And

1495
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 3: then she gets sick and says, this is your child,

1496
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 3: but I'm dying, and he still takes her I'll take

1497
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:18,800
Speaker 3: care of you at mama's house. I mean, it's the

1498
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 3: sweetest love story. Baffling, Like, okay, baffling.

1499
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 2: Even if you're next to the people who you made

1500
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:29,200
Speaker 2: the movie with. That's a dog shit take. Yeah, I'm sorry,

1501
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 2: that is no excuse.

1502
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 3: She triples down. I rereading the quote, you're like, wait.

1503
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 4: No, she's committing all the Cardinal's sense of acting. As

1504
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 4: an actor, you're supposed to empathize with your character, like regardless,

1505
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:43,759
Speaker 4: Like you're supposed to understand some humanity and your characters

1506
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 4: some of their actions, their motivations. For her to like

1507
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 4: so wildly misunderstand Jenny is kind of embarrassing, Like what, Yeah.

1508
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:58,840
Speaker 3: Especially as a woman who is like not that far

1509
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 3: removed from that general She's like a decade removed from

1510
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,600
Speaker 3: the actual age of Jenny's character, and so I was

1511
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 3: just like, I don't know Boomer women. I will never

1512
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:11,559
Speaker 3: I will never understand they love to own themselves. Like

1513
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 3: it's just it's wild. Anyways, Yeah that I just wanted

1514
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 3: to share that absolute piece of dogshit quote. Not sure

1515
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 3: what's going on with Robin Wright.

1516
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:24,160
Speaker 4: I think the idea of Jenny being anti feminist is

1517
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 4: also kind of like a little unfair as well. I

1518
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 4: think I don't know a lot of people in my

1519
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 4: comments on the video were like, most of the reason

1520
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:32,680
Speaker 4: I love Forrest Gump is because I love Jenny and

1521
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 4: I saw myself and her, and so I think in

1522
01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 4: a way there could be like a bit more of

1523
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 4: a repairative reading of Forrest Gump, and you know, seeing

1524
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:43,600
Speaker 4: Jenny as this empathetic, like strong willed character, a survivor

1525
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 4: in all contexts, and you know who set out to,

1526
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 4: you know, pursue her dreams and like kind of did

1527
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:52,320
Speaker 4: what she wanted, which I think is great. And I

1528
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:54,559
Speaker 4: hate that I hate the narrative about her stringing Forest

1529
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:57,320
Speaker 4: along like god so classic of that time.

1530
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:00,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I I really like the

1531
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:02,760
Speaker 3: character of Jenny, and I think it's just like the

1532
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:07,200
Speaker 3: takeaway my takeaway is like, I mean, keeping our conversation

1533
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,680
Speaker 3: about consent in mind, but I think that it's like

1534
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 3: you leave the movie just wishing that the world hadn't

1535
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 3: done her so fucking dirty. And again it's like, if

1536
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 3: that is the way that the movie needs Jenny's story

1537
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 3: to end, which obviously it doesn't because the source ma

1538
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:26,120
Speaker 3: material doesn't do that, but like, again, imply that it's

1539
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 3: systemic in any way that she got fucked over in

1540
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 3: this way, as opposed to being like it's basically her

1541
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,839
Speaker 3: fault and she brought on herself, and the actor agrees,

1542
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 3: and like, I don't know, I think in general her

1543
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:41,679
Speaker 3: story should not have gone that way. But there's just again,

1544
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:45,440
Speaker 3: there's no because this movie has no interest in interrogating

1545
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 3: any systemic anything. You're Yeah, you're presented with like a

1546
01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:52,720
Speaker 3: young feminist who is like trying to like live on

1547
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:55,800
Speaker 3: her own, trying to overcome a very traumatic past, and

1548
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 3: they kill her.

1549
01:25:57,280 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1550
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 4: So I find the relationship between jenn and Forrest kind

1551
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 4: of fascinating, especially in the movie because outside of the

1552
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 4: romanticized context, like I think they have this like fascinating

1553
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 4: kind of codependence and like platonic love that gets really

1554
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 4: embroiled with romantic love and lust. And I don't know.

1555
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 4: I think when they're children, you see them kind of

1556
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:18,720
Speaker 4: helping each other in these ways, you know, like she

1557
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:21,320
Speaker 4: helps Forest, like she's a friend to him where no

1558
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 4: one else is, and you know he's there for her

1559
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 4: as like a support through what she's going through, and

1560
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:27,559
Speaker 4: he's like as children and helping each other in that

1561
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 4: way and then getting kind of wires crossed when you

1562
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 4: get older and not knowing, you know, not knowing if

1563
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:34,240
Speaker 4: you're in love or if you're your friends. I think

1564
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 4: could have a fascinating like it could be there could

1565
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 4: be some interesting angles to look at that from. But yeah, no,

1566
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,120
Speaker 4: the movie, the movie's not interested in doing that.

1567
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:44,360
Speaker 1: No.

1568
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, because the movie's convinced that it's a consensual love

1569
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 3: story and like, I don't know, it just it the

1570
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 3: scene that I appreciated the most between Forrest and Jenny,

1571
01:26:57,240 --> 01:27:01,600
Speaker 3: even though it's you know, extremely melodramatic, but late in

1572
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:05,599
Speaker 3: the movie, when they passed her house where she had

1573
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 3: been abused and she you know, throws rocks at it.

1574
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:11,360
Speaker 3: She has like a big emotional response to seeing this

1575
01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 3: house again that is ostensibly empty at this point, but

1576
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:17,200
Speaker 3: she's you know, flinging rocks at it, and Forrest like

1577
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 3: just lets her and like doesn't interfere, and like does

1578
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:24,240
Speaker 3: I think what a true friend should do in that situation.

1579
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 3: Just is there for her, And you know, it's possible

1580
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 3: he doesn't totally. I mean, but it is actually implied

1581
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 3: that he understands why she's doing it, because he's not

1582
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 3: interfering in ways he would in other situations.

1583
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 4: I think he emotionally understands. Yeah.

1584
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really liked that moment between them, and I

1585
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 3: guess I wish that that was more where their relationship lived,

1586
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:51,679
Speaker 3: of like they understand each other because of this shared history,

1587
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 3: Like it didn't need to be tumbled into a romantic

1588
01:27:56,920 --> 01:27:59,599
Speaker 3: like and now we share a child together because it's

1589
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:03,040
Speaker 3: just too it's too messy. The movie's not equipped to

1590
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 3: responsibly handle that.

1591
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:09,879
Speaker 4: It's very Hollywood. Yeah yeah, big kiss at the end

1592
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 4: kind of thing, you know, foot pop kind of storyline.

1593
01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 2: Yes, for sure.

1594
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:19,160
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, that was my Jenny side conversation.

1595
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:23,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shall we talk about Bubba we shed?

1596
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 2: We must? I guess just zooming out a little bit

1597
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:31,599
Speaker 2: and examining the way the movie handles black characters in general,

1598
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:39,240
Speaker 2: where they mostly exist to service or further characterize white characters,

1599
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 2: particularly Forrest Gump, of course, and it's characterizing the Force

1600
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:48,839
Speaker 2: Gump character by showing how naive he is to things

1601
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 2: like systemic racism, because we see many examples of this.

1602
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:58,600
Speaker 2: We've already discussed several of them. The him like referencing

1603
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:01,880
Speaker 2: that he was named after a Grand Wizard of the KKK,

1604
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 2: him not understanding what that organization is at all. Like

1605
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 2: there's that scene where he's at the Black Panther meeting

1606
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:17,280
Speaker 2: and there's a Black panther who is lecturing Forrest about

1607
01:29:17,320 --> 01:29:22,520
Speaker 2: like the Vietnam War and how the Black Panthers oppose

1608
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 2: any war where the US sends black soldiers to the

1609
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:27,599
Speaker 2: front line to die for a country that hates them,

1610
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:31,720
Speaker 2: and how racism is destroying black communities and things of

1611
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:35,719
Speaker 2: that nature, and Forest is just like completely ignoring him

1612
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 2: in favor of paying attention to Jenny. There's like other

1613
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 2: just like references to the fact that like Forrest is

1614
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:50,480
Speaker 2: clueless to systemic racism, and then you have him befriending

1615
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:55,640
Speaker 2: and like becoming best friends with Bubba, who is I

1616
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 2: guess not a black character in the book.

1617
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:00,240
Speaker 4: Is that it's just not really stated in the book.

1618
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:01,760
Speaker 2: It's not specified, okay.

1619
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 3: See, and it's also mentioned in the book. I think

1620
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:07,600
Speaker 3: you said that they met in college, not the battlefield,

1621
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 3: which felt like pointed to make it because they forego

1622
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 3: that in favor of, you know, they make a weird

1623
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 3: visual joke of like Forrest doesn't know what's going on

1624
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 3: in this scene where George Wallace is talking, and like

1625
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 3: that is done instead of just introducing him to Bubba

1626
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 3: in college, and I feel like it's almost implied that, like, well,

1627
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 3: of course you wouldn't make a black friend in college

1628
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 3: during this era. Like it just I don't know, that

1629
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 3: felt very pointed. I wrote down under Bubba, I was like,

1630
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 3: everyone should just watch The Five Bloods instead of this

1631
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 3: movie's take on the Vietnam War. Have you guys seen that?

1632
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:47,639
Speaker 2: I haven't.

1633
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:49,120
Speaker 4: I haven't seen The Five Bloods.

1634
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:52,320
Speaker 3: It came out during the pandemic lockdown, so I think

1635
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:53,680
Speaker 3: that's why a lot of people didn't see it. But

1636
01:30:54,120 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 3: it was a Spike Lee movie for Netflix. Amazing, but

1637
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 3: it's about black Vietnam War veterans, like talking about their

1638
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 3: time in the service, and it's a really great movie.

1639
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 3: Delroy Lindo is great in it anyways, a movie with

1640
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 3: fifty times more to say than this one.

1641
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:16,439
Speaker 2: Right, because all it says about Bubba, for example, is

1642
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:21,760
Speaker 2: that he likes shrimp, right, right, all we get to

1643
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:23,240
Speaker 2: know about Bubba well.

1644
01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 3: And also it feels implied that Bubba is neuro divergent

1645
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 3: in some way as well.

1646
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:32,639
Speaker 2: Seems like it.

1647
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:35,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but again not something that the movie is going

1648
01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 3: to explicitly attempt to talk about. And in the case

1649
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:45,040
Speaker 3: of Forrest, we get a you know, deeply imperfect, but

1650
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:48,800
Speaker 3: we get far more information about Forest like personality and

1651
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 3: interests than Bubba. I mean, it really is just that

1652
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:59,320
Speaker 3: one note. I also wanted to mention that in the

1653
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:03,719
Speaker 3: movie they add this detail that he has a protruding lip,

1654
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:09,760
Speaker 3: and they made that actor, the actor playing Bubba, Mikeelty Williamson,

1655
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,920
Speaker 3: like put in a prosthetic in order to hold his face.

1656
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:15,160
Speaker 2: I was curious about that.

1657
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:17,880
Speaker 3: I was as well. But yes, it says Williamson wore

1658
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:22,240
Speaker 3: a lip attachment to create Bubba's protruding lip, which again

1659
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:27,320
Speaker 3: just feels very caricaturesque and insulting and fucked.

1660
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:29,719
Speaker 2: Like minstrel show kind of thing.

1661
01:32:30,080 --> 01:32:36,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the lip did have elements of menstrualsy.

1662
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:39,640
Speaker 4: That made me feel a little strange. It's just a

1663
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:42,120
Speaker 4: strange addition. I think that they're trying to kind of

1664
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 4: have him and Bubba feel like a kinship with each

1665
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:47,760
Speaker 4: other because Bubba has this kind of like physical difference

1666
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:52,120
Speaker 4: and then Forrest has this like intellectual cognitive difference, and

1667
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,200
Speaker 4: maybe that's why they feel like closer to each other.

1668
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:57,800
Speaker 4: But I think maybe it was a bit misguided.

1669
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 3: They could just be friends. That they can just be friends.

1670
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:05,759
Speaker 3: Like I was again, it's like we're scriping the bottom

1671
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 3: of the barrel here in terms of like what this

1672
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 3: movie does. I was glad to see that there were

1673
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 3: black soldiers included in this platoon because I actually I

1674
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:18,840
Speaker 3: haven't seen Apocalypse Now bravely it's one of my other

1675
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 3: long hauldouts for whatever reason.

1676
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:25,640
Speaker 2: Apocalypse Now, directed by Francis Ford Coppola of Megalopolis.

1677
01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:33,559
Speaker 4: No. I love Francis. I I can movies.

1678
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 3: Look, I mean z Mecca is another example of you

1679
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:38,360
Speaker 3: gotta flop at some point.

1680
01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:40,799
Speaker 2: All these guys are in their flop era no no,

1681
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:41,120
Speaker 2: no no.

1682
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:43,640
Speaker 4: I love a director who is capable of making the

1683
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:46,479
Speaker 4: most monumental flops but also made like three of the

1684
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:49,120
Speaker 4: most important amazing movies of all time. Like that is,

1685
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:52,679
Speaker 4: like that is someone who I'm like cook, You're cooking

1686
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:57,080
Speaker 4: pul Schraders, same garbage movies and amazing movies. I love that.

1687
01:33:57,160 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 3: Yes, you've got you've got one more in U can

1688
01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 3: I can feel it, feel it, I can feel it.

1689
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:06,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, that there are black soldiers in Forest Platoon,

1690
01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 3: I think is very important because there were I've got

1691
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:12,759
Speaker 3: some data up here. And this is also just something

1692
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 3: that is explicitly addressed extensively in The Five Bloods, which

1693
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,680
Speaker 3: is I think we should just cover that movie. And

1694
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:22,160
Speaker 3: then it's because I feel like it was like underrated,

1695
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:26,080
Speaker 3: but that there were three hundred thousand black soldiers who

1696
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:29,440
Speaker 3: served in combat roles in the Vietnam War, which proportional

1697
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:34,120
Speaker 3: to Black Americans. At the time, it was absurd, like

1698
01:34:34,200 --> 01:34:37,599
Speaker 3: it was. It really was just young men being sent

1699
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:41,439
Speaker 3: to die and men who were disproportionately black, And so

1700
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 3: I was glad to see that we have not only

1701
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:49,600
Speaker 3: the representation of black soldiers in Forest Platoon, but we

1702
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:53,320
Speaker 3: get to know one of those soldiers. However, do we

1703
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:56,960
Speaker 3: because all we learn is that this guy likes shrimp,

1704
01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 3: and that is about the best Eric Roth could do

1705
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:02,800
Speaker 3: for us.

1706
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 4: There's something about Tom Hanks being in movies with like

1707
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:10,559
Speaker 4: a noble black character, like one of those like noble

1708
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 4: black archetypes, like I think The Green Mile is one

1709
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 4: of them. It's just such a fascinating nineties trope of

1710
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:20,080
Speaker 4: this kind of like saintly black character. I mean, we

1711
01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:22,400
Speaker 4: don't know as much about Bubba as we do as

1712
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:24,559
Speaker 4: we learn in The Green Mile, but like I feel like,

1713
01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:27,760
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's just like an interesting dynamic of

1714
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:31,160
Speaker 4: Tom Hanks playing these kind of white characters who are

1715
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:33,440
Speaker 4: adjacent to these I don't know, it's just fascinating.

1716
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 2: Me didn't make that connection, but no, I see it.

1717
01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:38,479
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's other examples.

1718
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:41,080
Speaker 4: Like witnessing the kind of the suffering or witnessing the

1719
01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:42,760
Speaker 4: death of one of these characters.

1720
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:45,519
Speaker 3: I don't know, Yeah, I guess. I was also surprised

1721
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:50,559
Speaker 3: that ultimately Bubba Gump becomes a bigger facet of the

1722
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:54,760
Speaker 3: story than Bubba himself. Was you see Bubba for such

1723
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:57,000
Speaker 3: a short amount of time in the movie, and then

1724
01:35:57,040 --> 01:36:01,920
Speaker 3: there's an entire restaurant about it. Again, I was glad

1725
01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 3: that Forrest gave Bubba's family a cut of the business.

1726
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:09,439
Speaker 3: I think it took him too long. I think you

1727
01:36:09,439 --> 01:36:12,080
Speaker 3: should have just done it from the jump. Yeah, And

1728
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:14,680
Speaker 3: I think that like, yeah, Bubba's family was presented in

1729
01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 3: this very broad way as well that seemed like both

1730
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:21,720
Speaker 3: cretical of black families and poor families. It just it

1731
01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 3: felt so vague.

1732
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 4: Movie version of Yeah, it takes on a very individualist,

1733
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:33,759
Speaker 4: kind of like emotional approach to racism in that forest

1734
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 4: is you know, helping this one black family and you know,

1735
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:40,160
Speaker 4: kind of saving them from poverty. And now the Bubba's

1736
01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 4: mom doesn't have to serve shrimp anymore, a white lady

1737
01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:45,639
Speaker 4: serving her shrimp. But it's like, that's great, but we're

1738
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,960
Speaker 4: not actually like fully understanding the implications of you know

1739
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 4: what I mean, we're not fully understanding the implications of

1740
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:54,400
Speaker 4: why Bubba's family is disenfranchised, which I guess the movie

1741
01:36:54,479 --> 01:36:56,120
Speaker 4: kind of hints at when they show that all his

1742
01:36:56,200 --> 01:36:59,639
Speaker 4: ancestors have been feeding shrimp to white ladies their whole lives.

1743
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:02,360
Speaker 3: But it just but they don't even like say it's

1744
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:07,240
Speaker 3: so weird. But this movie avoids saying when they're fully comfortable,

1745
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:10,160
Speaker 3: say like name checking the Grand Wizard of the KKK

1746
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:12,360
Speaker 3: in the first five minutes of the movie, it's just

1747
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:16,519
Speaker 3: like I don't know, like like, yeah, I've rewatched that

1748
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:18,320
Speaker 3: part a couple times to be like, but they're not

1749
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:22,680
Speaker 3: explicitly saying what Bubba's family history very likely is in

1750
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:23,160
Speaker 3: the South.

1751
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 2: To me, it is alluding to the fact that Bubba's

1752
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:32,679
Speaker 2: grandmother or maybe great grandmother was an enslaved person serving

1753
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:36,360
Speaker 2: shrimp to an enslaver on a plantation, but that is

1754
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:40,040
Speaker 2: presented in a like almost like a visual gag sort

1755
01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:44,280
Speaker 2: of way, without again like commenting on anything about systemic

1756
01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 2: racism or anything like that.

1757
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:50,400
Speaker 3: I do feel like with Bubba, it's again his family

1758
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 3: deserves that money, right, But yeah, I think it's again

1759
01:37:54,120 --> 01:37:56,880
Speaker 3: presented like Forrest did this out of the goodness of

1760
01:37:56,880 --> 01:37:58,960
Speaker 3: his heart, and like none of this would have been

1761
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:02,679
Speaker 3: possible if it weren't for this amazing guy, Forest Gump.

1762
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 3: So again it's like he's kind of coming in with

1763
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:07,360
Speaker 3: like the the white saviorism a little bit. They go

1764
01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 3: out of their way to mention that Lieutenant Dan didn't

1765
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 3: want me to do this, but I did. And I

1766
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 3: don't know. Just so many of the marginalized characters that

1767
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:21,240
Speaker 3: exist around Forest sometimes just seem to be there for

1768
01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:23,439
Speaker 3: the audience to be reminded what a good guy Forest

1769
01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:27,400
Speaker 3: is totally and how much we love him. So, I mean,

1770
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:30,040
Speaker 3: I don't Unfortunately, I don't have that much else to

1771
01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:32,599
Speaker 3: say about Bubba specifically because we just don't know very

1772
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:36,200
Speaker 3: much about him. But I do think that this connects too.

1773
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:39,360
Speaker 3: I think my last point I wanted to make, which

1774
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:44,080
Speaker 3: is that there are I think over ten real historical

1775
01:38:44,120 --> 01:38:49,439
Speaker 3: figures that appear in this or whatever are zamechist into

1776
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:53,920
Speaker 3: this movie. They came in on the Polar Express. Wow,

1777
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 3: they are all white men. There's no women, there's no

1778
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:01,040
Speaker 3: people of color. You meet two black panthers, but they

1779
01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:05,800
Speaker 3: don't bother to ascribe who these black panthers may have been.

1780
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:08,640
Speaker 3: They they're not named, I mean, and I checked to

1781
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:11,200
Speaker 3: make sure, because Abbi Hoffman isn't named, but he's credited

1782
01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:14,760
Speaker 3: as Abbie Hoffman. But these actors are just credited as

1783
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,840
Speaker 3: black panthers, which to me indicates that there wasn't enough

1784
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:22,920
Speaker 3: interest on the part of the production to choose specific

1785
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:25,640
Speaker 3: important black panthers to have these characters.

1786
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:28,040
Speaker 4: Although I don't know if i'd want like Fred Hampton

1787
01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 4: coming into that scene. He just he just like kind

1788
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 4: of walks up and then he's like, this is how

1789
01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:36,639
Speaker 4: I feel, and he kind of like like a yelling

1790
01:39:36,680 --> 01:39:38,559
Speaker 4: at he do they just make him seem so like

1791
01:39:39,320 --> 01:39:42,120
Speaker 4: they just make everyone involved in the counter culture seems

1792
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:47,559
Speaker 4: so hedonistic and like miserable and like aggressive, their causes

1793
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 4: are kind of pointless, and and Forrest is like, I

1794
01:39:50,360 --> 01:39:52,679
Speaker 4: don't get this. These people are weird. And I feel

1795
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:55,320
Speaker 4: like that scene is so emblematic of that. Let alone,

1796
01:39:55,320 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 4: having Jenny get just like fully slapped in the face,

1797
01:39:57,920 --> 01:39:59,520
Speaker 4: how this black panther meet.

1798
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:01,599
Speaker 3: The fact that that scene is like played as this

1799
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:05,560
Speaker 3: bizarre joke that yeah, that the black panthers in the

1800
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,800
Speaker 3: unnamed black panthers in the scene are just screaming their

1801
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:12,800
Speaker 3: ideology at Forrest Gump, which is like, I think, like

1802
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:17,440
Speaker 3: played into how black panthers were portrayed in pop culture

1803
01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 3: as well. I'm trying to think of another exac I

1804
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:25,479
Speaker 3: feel like there is like well angry, yes, like angry

1805
01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:30,400
Speaker 3: and ineffective. I think like angry, violent, ineffective. I think

1806
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:33,320
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of some old SNL sketches. I can't pull

1807
01:40:33,360 --> 01:40:34,519
Speaker 3: exactly what I'm thinking of here.

1808
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:36,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you listen to the rhetoric of

1809
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 2: what that guy is saying. He's correct, like he is

1810
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:42,599
Speaker 2: saying he's right, but yeah, very true and correct things,

1811
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:44,559
Speaker 2: but it's reduced to background noise.

1812
01:40:44,920 --> 01:40:48,160
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. And the same way that in the integration

1813
01:40:48,360 --> 01:40:51,519
Speaker 3: scene at Forest College, you know, it's like you're hearing

1814
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:54,479
Speaker 3: something that is very significant and then we just sort

1815
01:40:54,520 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 3: of pan over to like, what are these white characters doing?

1816
01:40:57,439 --> 01:40:58,880
Speaker 2: What's Forrest to doing well?

1817
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:01,080
Speaker 4: Again, like to the end of visual goodness of it all,

1818
01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:04,040
Speaker 4: like him picking up a book. You know, it's like, aw,

1819
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:07,160
Speaker 4: what a kind hearted soul and that's the individual is

1820
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 4: such a nice so nice, you know, and like we

1821
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:12,400
Speaker 4: should just all be nice to each other. Yea, yeah, yeah.

1822
01:41:12,479 --> 01:41:15,960
Speaker 3: Does anyone else have other thoughts on this movie?

1823
01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:19,000
Speaker 4: Really, I'm looking through my notes.

1824
01:41:19,280 --> 01:41:22,080
Speaker 2: Just something that you also call attention to in your

1825
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:26,679
Speaker 2: video essay, Maya, but the the fact that like the

1826
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:31,759
Speaker 2: tonal and the character and the narrative changes that were

1827
01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:35,720
Speaker 2: made from the book to the movie adaptation had so

1828
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:40,519
Speaker 2: much to do with money and marketing and like catering

1829
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:46,160
Speaker 2: to a very broad American movie going audience, Because if

1830
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:50,640
Speaker 2: they had adapted the book more closely with its like,

1831
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:56,080
Speaker 2: you know, satirical tones and critique of American culture. It

1832
01:41:56,160 --> 01:41:58,720
Speaker 2: certainly would have been a much bigger financial risk and

1833
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:03,280
Speaker 2: probably would have bombed at the box office because this

1834
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:07,519
Speaker 2: is coming out at a time and you know, this

1835
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 2: is still very much the case now where we're not

1836
01:42:12,360 --> 01:42:16,919
Speaker 2: as willing to be critical of American history and culture

1837
01:42:17,479 --> 01:42:21,200
Speaker 2: and capitalism and all of the things as we should be.

1838
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:25,160
Speaker 2: And so they were just like, let's just whitewash everything

1839
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 2: and sanitize everything and make it this sort of like, wow,

1840
01:42:30,400 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 2: isn't this such a nice depiction of this nice, friendly guy,

1841
01:42:35,240 --> 01:42:39,759
Speaker 2: and let's make sure we say nothing about anything. And

1842
01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:42,720
Speaker 2: that made it one of the highest grossing movies of

1843
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:46,639
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four. Was it first or second? Something like that?

1844
01:42:47,560 --> 01:42:47,880
Speaker 4: I think?

1845
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:51,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. And Best Picture winner, if I'm.

1846
01:42:51,040 --> 01:42:55,479
Speaker 4: Not misswept, absolutely swept the Oscars. Yeah, over pulp fiction

1847
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:59,680
Speaker 4: and Shawshanks, which are so good. I mean, I'm one

1848
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:03,400
Speaker 4: of the remaining pulp fiction lovers, but.

1849
01:43:03,080 --> 01:43:05,320
Speaker 2: I'm kind of on the fence about it. But for

1850
01:43:05,479 --> 01:43:09,400
Speaker 2: my money, Shashaik Redemption should have won Best Picture by

1851
01:43:09,439 --> 01:43:10,639
Speaker 2: a long shot.

1852
01:43:11,560 --> 01:43:13,920
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I just wanted to.

1853
01:43:15,400 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 2: Point out that Zamechis and you know, the producers and

1854
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:24,000
Speaker 2: everything were just like, how can we make money from this?

1855
01:43:24,360 --> 01:43:24,639
Speaker 3: Right?

1856
01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, because this was made on a fifty five million

1857
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:30,559
Speaker 2: dollar budget and grossed six hundred and seventy eight million

1858
01:43:31,160 --> 01:43:32,559
Speaker 2: at the box office.

1859
01:43:33,160 --> 01:43:33,519
Speaker 3: Wild.

1860
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:35,799
Speaker 4: I think one of the reasons Alsell always feel slightly

1861
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:39,880
Speaker 4: complicated about Forrest Gump is because the moviness of it

1862
01:43:40,240 --> 01:43:42,599
Speaker 4: and like the big cinema of it is like, in

1863
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:45,200
Speaker 4: one way so awful, and like they sanitized the book

1864
01:43:45,200 --> 01:43:48,400
Speaker 4: and they made it so they made it conservative catnip

1865
01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:51,240
Speaker 4: like it got I hadn't mentioned yet, but it got

1866
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:53,479
Speaker 4: kind of swept up by like far right people like

1867
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:55,880
Speaker 4: Pat Buchanan and New Ginridge, and they kind of used

1868
01:43:55,880 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 4: it as part of their political campaign in a year

1869
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:00,639
Speaker 4: where Republicans swept the White House for the first time

1870
01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:04,280
Speaker 4: in like four decades. I was considered like a conservative

1871
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:07,360
Speaker 4: kind of like revolution. But then at the same time,

1872
01:44:07,479 --> 01:44:10,760
Speaker 4: it's like sometimes I almost appreciate a movie that man

1873
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:13,479
Speaker 4: and just to like worm itself so deeply into popular

1874
01:44:13,520 --> 01:44:16,600
Speaker 4: culture and like manages to be so ubiquitous and like

1875
01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:19,559
Speaker 4: such a movie that in some ways when I watch

1876
01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:21,920
Speaker 4: it and like I can, I kind of appreciate the

1877
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:25,280
Speaker 4: like brazen sentimentality of it because I'm like, wow, that

1878
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:26,400
Speaker 4: is a movie.

1879
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:28,679
Speaker 3: The movie feels like a movie.

1880
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:31,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I can appreciate kind of the competence of

1881
01:44:31,479 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 4: the like how powerful it is at like getting people

1882
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:38,280
Speaker 4: to be emotional. But then in other ways that's dangerous

1883
01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:40,519
Speaker 4: because of the ways that it can be the ways

1884
01:44:40,520 --> 01:44:43,400
Speaker 4: that it's conservative messaging can be kind of like taken

1885
01:44:43,479 --> 01:44:45,599
Speaker 4: and adopted and ran with.

1886
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which I know you mentioned in your video

1887
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:54,080
Speaker 3: and again listeners watched the whole video, but that it

1888
01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:58,040
Speaker 3: was this really like right of center attempt to say

1889
01:44:58,360 --> 01:45:00,679
Speaker 3: the fact that they've made a movie about forty years

1890
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:02,880
Speaker 3: of American history. They're like, it's an a political movie.

1891
01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:06,160
Speaker 3: You're like, not possible, man, Like sorry, that's just not

1892
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:08,880
Speaker 3: possible to do. But that they had the sort of

1893
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:12,360
Speaker 3: right of center like crowd pleasing approach to it. And

1894
01:45:13,160 --> 01:45:15,519
Speaker 3: you say in your video like the right is better

1895
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:20,320
Speaker 3: at turning shit into propaganda, and they very effectively did it,

1896
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:21,200
Speaker 3: very quickly.

1897
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 4: It's one thing they got going for them.

1898
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:31,280
Speaker 3: Then and now unfortunately that's true, except now, maybe the

1899
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:34,240
Speaker 3: CEO shooter is going to bring us all together.

1900
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:38,120
Speaker 4: We can a Lincoln build truly linking and building.

1901
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:42,680
Speaker 3: Wait, does this movie pass the Bechtel's desk. I genuinely

1902
01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:43,160
Speaker 3: don't know.

1903
01:45:43,720 --> 01:45:46,559
Speaker 2: I didn't even bother paying attention. I don't check.

1904
01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 3: No, no, it does.

1905
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:51,360
Speaker 2: I think there's scenes where like Forrest's mom will be

1906
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:55,439
Speaker 2: talking to I think her name is Louise. She's the

1907
01:45:55,520 --> 01:46:01,040
Speaker 2: black woman who works for her, Yes, unclear exactly what capacity,

1908
01:46:01,160 --> 01:46:01,840
Speaker 2: but I.

1909
01:46:01,760 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 4: Think she helps with the boarding house kind of vibe.

1910
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:10,760
Speaker 2: And she just was like Louise, Louise, that's Forest, so

1911
01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:14,040
Speaker 2: doesn't pass. I think that might be the only interaction

1912
01:46:14,200 --> 01:46:14,960
Speaker 2: between women.

1913
01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:17,479
Speaker 3: There's also, oh this, I forgot to bring this up

1914
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:21,840
Speaker 3: earlier because there's just so much but going into this

1915
01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:25,040
Speaker 3: movie's pretty low opinion about sex work. There are two

1916
01:46:25,200 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 3: named sex workers who are with Lieutenant Dan and Forrest

1917
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:34,000
Speaker 3: on New Year's Eve, Yes whose I have their names here,

1918
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:39,360
Speaker 3: Carla and Lenore, And they do talk to each other,

1919
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:41,720
Speaker 3: but it is about the men in the room, and

1920
01:46:42,200 --> 01:46:46,440
Speaker 3: they are end up like coming off as cruel ablest

1921
01:46:46,479 --> 01:46:50,360
Speaker 3: harpies and that is the end of their.

1922
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:52,400
Speaker 4: And Forest is like, I want to sex with her

1923
01:46:52,439 --> 01:46:54,400
Speaker 4: because she smelled like cigarettes.

1924
01:46:55,400 --> 01:46:59,240
Speaker 3: She's gross, and You're like, all right, and I'm correctly

1925
01:46:59,240 --> 01:47:01,519
Speaker 3: assuming we will ever see or hear are these characters

1926
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:05,479
Speaker 3: again and these evil witches are you know, provide this

1927
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:07,679
Speaker 3: opportunity for the men to bond?

1928
01:47:08,360 --> 01:47:08,479
Speaker 1: Right?

1929
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:13,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, no, this movie. I'm on scholarly journal Bechdel

1930
01:47:13,200 --> 01:47:16,639
Speaker 3: test dot com who often ends up doing our podcast

1931
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:17,200
Speaker 3: for us.

1932
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:20,639
Speaker 2: Our podcast is not even we should have a different

1933
01:47:20,720 --> 01:47:25,800
Speaker 2: name at this point.

1934
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 3: Were it's just works.

1935
01:47:30,120 --> 01:47:32,040
Speaker 2: It's a jumping off point, as we always say.

1936
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but anyways, it doesn't pass, although there is a

1937
01:47:35,320 --> 01:47:38,800
Speaker 3: very lively comment section on people like it might not.

1938
01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:42,680
Speaker 3: Curl says it might not pass the Bechdel test, but

1939
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:48,280
Speaker 3: this movie is far from sexist. I disagree, Curl. I

1940
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:51,120
Speaker 3: agree to disagree, Curl. Anyways, it doesn't pass, and it's

1941
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:53,600
Speaker 3: four thousand hours long, So how do you like that?

1942
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, here's the thing. We got to rate this

1943
01:47:56,160 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 2: movie on our nipple scale. We sure do the one

1944
01:47:59,760 --> 01:48:02,840
Speaker 2: true metric, where on a scale of zero to five

1945
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:06,600
Speaker 2: nipples we rate the movie examining it through an intersectional

1946
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:14,559
Speaker 2: feminist lens. Oh like zero point five nipples. I think

1947
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:18,600
Speaker 2: that Jenny and being able to kind of like reclaim

1948
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:21,920
Speaker 2: her to some degree or like see yourself in her

1949
01:48:22,200 --> 01:48:29,040
Speaker 2: as someone who strikes out on her own and engages

1950
01:48:29,360 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 2: in counterculture and activism and ignores and defies the like

1951
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:41,000
Speaker 2: genderle expectations of the time, the conservative ones at least,

1952
01:48:41,120 --> 01:48:44,960
Speaker 2: and you know, just like makes a life for herself.

1953
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:48,840
Speaker 2: And I think there's like you can admire her for that,

1954
01:48:49,680 --> 01:48:53,559
Speaker 2: But everything else about the way she's characterized, and about

1955
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:57,519
Speaker 2: the movie overall, and its refusal to say really anything

1956
01:48:57,560 --> 01:49:01,200
Speaker 2: of substance. I mean, I do think there are several

1957
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:04,519
Speaker 2: parts that are very emotionally compelling, So I get the

1958
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:07,040
Speaker 2: appeal of this movie on that level. Obviously, when I

1959
01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:10,280
Speaker 2: was a kid watching this movie on repeat, That's what

1960
01:49:10,360 --> 01:49:13,680
Speaker 2: I was drawn to. But there were so many opportunities

1961
01:49:13,720 --> 01:49:18,599
Speaker 2: to say, you know, pretty not controversial things about American history,

1962
01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:23,719
Speaker 2: such as the Vietnam War was a horrible mistake, racial

1963
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:28,759
Speaker 2: segregation was a horrible mistake, But instead the movie opts

1964
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:34,280
Speaker 2: to just be like, remember this from the good old days.

1965
01:49:35,120 --> 01:49:38,800
Speaker 2: And so I can't stand by the movie anymore because

1966
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:41,120
Speaker 2: of that. Not that every movie has to make some

1967
01:49:41,720 --> 01:49:45,920
Speaker 2: grand socio political statement, but if you're going to walk

1968
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:51,280
Speaker 2: us through several decades of highly politicized American history and

1969
01:49:51,320 --> 01:49:55,719
Speaker 2: say more or less nothing about it, then like, what's

1970
01:49:55,960 --> 01:50:00,680
Speaker 2: the point of the movie. So I'll give it zero

1971
01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:05,519
Speaker 2: point five nipples, and I'll give it to Jenny the

1972
01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:07,720
Speaker 2: character the end.

1973
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:16,679
Speaker 3: I'll give it I guess one. I guess. I don't know. Yeah,

1974
01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 3: I agree that Jenny. I think, to differing degrees, Jenny

1975
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:25,439
Speaker 3: and Lieutenant Dan are characters that are deeply flawed and

1976
01:50:25,600 --> 01:50:29,200
Speaker 3: are reclaimable. Probably not in a way that the filmmakers intended,

1977
01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:34,479
Speaker 3: but that's that's how movies work. I don't know. With all,

1978
01:50:35,160 --> 01:50:39,400
Speaker 3: with all due respect to Forrest gump Heads, like, we're

1979
01:50:39,479 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 3: right and you're wrong, and I guess that's just something

1980
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 3: that you're gonna have to make your peace with.

1981
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:47,120
Speaker 4: Not the gump Heads.

1982
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:53,680
Speaker 3: Gump Nation is in shambles after this. We're gonna have

1983
01:50:53,720 --> 01:50:55,720
Speaker 3: tomatoes thrown at us when we go to Bubba Gump

1984
01:50:55,720 --> 01:50:58,040
Speaker 3: at CityWalk. Gump Nation's gonna come for us.

1985
01:50:58,120 --> 01:50:59,439
Speaker 2: It's a risk I'm willing to take.

1986
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:03,360
Speaker 3: There are Robert Zebeki's movies I like, but anytime he's

1987
01:51:03,400 --> 01:51:07,320
Speaker 3: trying to say something serious, it is so unseerious. Like

1988
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:10,840
Speaker 3: he's a great example of a director who's like ability

1989
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:15,320
Speaker 3: and talent and sense of whimsy I respect, but I

1990
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:19,760
Speaker 3: don't care what he thinks about fucking anything like you know,

1991
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:22,720
Speaker 3: he couldn't be bothered to read the source material. One

1992
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:24,920
Speaker 3: nipple and I'm giving it to baby Hayley.

1993
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:30,760
Speaker 2: Oh yes, so small, just not very bit.

1994
01:51:31,439 --> 01:51:33,599
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give it one and a half for all

1995
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:38,240
Speaker 4: the reasons you guys said, and also because I appreciate

1996
01:51:38,320 --> 01:51:41,200
Speaker 4: my teenage instinct to cry at this movie, you know,

1997
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:46,439
Speaker 4: and I think that I'll cherish that regardless of how

1998
01:51:46,479 --> 01:51:49,840
Speaker 4: I feel icky about it now It's true.

1999
01:51:50,080 --> 01:51:52,200
Speaker 2: Well, may thank you so much for joining us for

2000
01:51:52,240 --> 01:51:56,760
Speaker 2: this discussion. So enjoyed having you. Thanks for coming on this.

2001
01:51:57,160 --> 01:51:59,040
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, thanks for having me.

2002
01:51:59,120 --> 01:52:01,880
Speaker 4: I'm so glad we also link and build like this.

2003
01:52:02,160 --> 01:52:03,559
Speaker 4: I am so honored to be on here.

2004
01:52:04,240 --> 01:52:05,400
Speaker 3: This feelings very mutual.

2005
01:52:05,520 --> 01:52:06,400
Speaker 2: Come back any time.

2006
01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:08,519
Speaker 3: Bring up a vie, Yeah, bring up a view you

2007
01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:09,439
Speaker 3: love next time.

2008
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:11,360
Speaker 4: I have so many Yes.

2009
01:52:12,240 --> 01:52:15,920
Speaker 2: Where can people follow your work? Follow you on social media,

2010
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:16,519
Speaker 2: et cetera.

2011
01:52:17,280 --> 01:52:20,360
Speaker 4: Yes, you can find me on YouTube. My name is

2012
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:22,879
Speaker 4: bro dationel on there. You can find me on Instagram

2013
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:25,559
Speaker 4: my name is Broe Underscore dationel on there, and then

2014
01:52:26,040 --> 01:52:30,040
Speaker 4: you can find my podcast on any podcasting platforms. I

2015
01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:32,760
Speaker 4: co host it with my friend Hannah and it's called rehash.

2016
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:35,160
Speaker 3: I'm excited to listen to the to the Furrays episode.

2017
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:38,519
Speaker 4: Oh I love that episode.

2018
01:52:39,120 --> 01:52:45,200
Speaker 3: You can follow us on Instagram mainly at Bechdel Cast,

2019
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:49,000
Speaker 3: and you can if you want more content, you can

2020
01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:52,280
Speaker 3: follow us on our Patreon aka Patreon, Patreon dot com

2021
01:52:52,320 --> 01:52:55,400
Speaker 3: slash Bechdel Cast, where for five bucks a month you

2022
01:52:55,520 --> 01:52:58,599
Speaker 3: get two bonus episodes every month and access to our

2023
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:01,479
Speaker 3: entire Patreon back catalog, which is over one hundred and

2024
01:53:01,479 --> 01:53:05,040
Speaker 3: fifty episodes. So if you're looking for a movie we

2025
01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:07,519
Speaker 3: haven't covered on the main feed, We've covered over five

2026
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:09,880
Speaker 3: hundred movies on this show, it's very possible. It is

2027
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:11,639
Speaker 3: on our Matreon and you.

2028
01:53:11,560 --> 01:53:15,439
Speaker 2: Can grab our merch at teapublic dot com slash the

2029
01:53:15,640 --> 01:53:18,800
Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast. All of it is designed by a one

2030
01:53:18,920 --> 01:53:25,439
Speaker 2: Jamie loftis and yeah, thanks for listening. And with that

2031
01:53:26,120 --> 01:53:34,680
Speaker 2: we have to run forrest, run away, Bye bye bye.

2032
01:53:36,439 --> 01:53:39,760
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

2033
01:53:39,800 --> 01:53:43,679
Speaker 2: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

2034
01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:46,960
Speaker 2: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

2035
01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:51,439
Speaker 2: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo in merch

2036
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:54,559
Speaker 2: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

2037
01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:59,000
Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

2038
01:53:59,040 --> 01:54:00,639
Speaker 2: link tree slash Victel Caste