1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: Oh hey, and welcome to another episode of The Hunting Collective. 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: This happens to the episode number seventy four, getting well 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: on into August. We are joined today by a bunch 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: of cool guests. We have the one, the only, the 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,119 Speaker 1: Magical Man of the Mountain, Remy Warren. We also have 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Phill the Engineer, and we did a lot of talking 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: about Remy's new podcast called Cutting the Distance here on 8 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: the Mediator Network. Subscribe to that sucker right now. And 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: we did a lot of talking about what it means 10 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: a podcasts, and we did we did some dramatic readings 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: of internet comments, some negative and some positive. I hope 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: you like that as well. And then the interview segment 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: of the show we started talking about Boone and Crockett Club. 14 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: It's history, history of fair Chase, the history of trophy measurements, 15 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: all of that with Keith Balford from Boone and Crockett Club. 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: It was a great and interesting conversation, so hang on 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: for that. But before we get to it, we're gonna 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: talk about the new Men's Solitude system from First Light. 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: This is for all us, specifically for all of you 20 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: white Tail fanatics out there, those of you who like 21 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: to sit up and trees all day during the fall, 22 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: which I do. Uh. This is a system that includes 23 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,639 Speaker 1: a top and the bottom. Both of them are fitted 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: with three thirty seven point five synthetic installation. They're silent, 25 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: they're durable, they're they're also DWR treated to propel moisture. 26 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: They've got a really neat little fleece line chest muff 27 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: you put your hands in, and these little zipper pockets 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: in putting right in the chestmuff. So when you're staying 29 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: all day, you guys know that your hands is the 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: first thing to get cold. He's got full stip legs 31 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: preventing and all that fun stuff. So if you're a 32 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: white tail fanatic, go to first light dot com and 33 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: check out the men's solitude system and a pretty cool 34 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: video by none other than our own Mark Kenyon. At 35 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: least he's the voiceover of that. So go first light 36 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: dot com check it out without further ado, Episode seventy four, 37 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: Let's go. I guess I grew up on an older road, 38 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: a pedal to the meadows. I always did what I 39 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: told until I found out that my brand new clothes 40 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: a game second hand from the rich kid's next door 41 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: and I grew up baths. I guess I grew up. 42 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: I mean, they have a thousand things inside of my 43 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: head I wish I ain't seen, and now I just 44 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: wanted through a real bad dream or being in like 45 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: I'm coming a fart of it seems, But thank you 46 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: Jack Daniels. Do know, Hey, everybody, Episode seventy four of 47 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: The Hunt Collective. I've been o Brian as always and 48 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: it's you're gonna hear this on thirteen nineteen, and Hunting 49 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: season is is barreling toward us like a wave on 50 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: an island in Hawaii. I say, Hawaii, No, yeah, you 51 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: can say whatever you want. Hunting season is getting close. 52 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: It is really Mulier tags, oh Man, antelope tags. I 53 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: got a few early season Mulier tags an antelope hunt 54 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: and planning, and then it's and then it's the super 55 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: Bowl of the archery season. L you're listening to the voice, 56 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: the sweet velvet voice of Remy Warren. That's a good 57 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: time for me to play. Remy Warren, host of the 58 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: brand new podcasts on the Media Network called Cutting the Distance. Yes, 59 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: how are you feeling about that round? I'm really excited? 60 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: What I really am excited? About is uh. Yeah, he 61 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: just get some get some info out there, tell some stories, 62 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: share some stuff, and hopefully people like it. Yeah, we've 63 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: been working on this for a long time. Um, it 64 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: seems like a very long time. It's finally out in 65 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: the world. Before podcasts even existed, were working on this 66 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: in the early nineties, when we were eight and ten 67 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: years old, respectively. I have like a little plastic recorder 68 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: just listening to childhood tastes and finally one of those 69 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: play schools with the built in like the Talkboy from 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: My Way, I should find that there's probably some pretty 71 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: good podcast episodes buried on that. Well, finally it's out 72 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: in the world. The first episode was about missing the 73 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: biggest buck of your life, a giant, big, fat meal 74 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: deer buck. Big Buck, big Buck. Tell us a little 75 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: bit about that story. What they might hear if they 76 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: go go over and listen to cutting the Distance, Yeah, 77 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: I think, well, you'll hear the story of one of 78 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,799 Speaker 1: the biggest DearS I have, DearS I have ever encountered. 79 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: And the cool thing about that story is, although I 80 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: did not actually get that dear, I learned a lot 81 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: that I've taken with me many days into the field, 82 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: and that's the thing, and you should learn something from 83 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: every hunt you go on, and if you aren't, you 84 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: aren't doing it right. So I really like to be 85 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: able to tell some stories that someone whom I've never 86 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: told before a lot most of them, and so you 87 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: get that entertainment factor, but then you get a little 88 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: takeaway of some stuff you can do to be a 89 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: better hunter and things that I've learned just along the 90 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: way just being out there hunting, guiding in the outdoors. Yeah, 91 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: I think everyone here, Ronella, myself and everyone included would 92 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: put you at the top of the top of hunters 93 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: we've ever met at least or hunted with and so 94 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: and thinking of this podcast, it's like, man, what's the 95 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: best person to to have, you know, like a really 96 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: core tips and tactics podcast. That's how we originally came 97 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: at and then as it morphed along, we're like, we 98 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: gotta have stories in there because they're so connected to 99 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: the actual activity, and there's you couldn't have tips and 100 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: tactics without these experiences and connecting the two things, I 101 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: think is what this is about. For sure, you learned 102 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: so much through Hunters are great at telling stories. We 103 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: all have our hunting stories, and I think about some 104 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: of the things that I've learned, and it's just been 105 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: from stories from friends or grandparents, parents, just hunting stories, 106 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: and you you remember those things, you know, you'll probably 107 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: learn more from the story than the actual tip. And 108 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: that's that's the goal, be entertained and be a better hunter. Yeah, 109 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: and that's we were talking about that earlier. I mean, 110 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: I think it's just like being able to young Phil 111 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: over here. He's got he's got magic sounds like that 112 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: he can put with with the storytelling that make them 113 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: that really suck in. I think it's important to be 114 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: kind of feel like you're there, understand these scenarios, and 115 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: then next you know, the next time that you go 116 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: through missing, the next time you see a giant muelder 117 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: buck guaranteed to be thinking of that arrow flying over 118 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: the back of the big giant. Yeah. Anytime you can 119 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: take something, and I do it all the time. There's 120 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: so many things that I've learned a lot of a 121 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: lot of hunting learning is through trial and error. But 122 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,559 Speaker 1: if you don't have the time to go out every 123 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: day of the season, you you can get your trial 124 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: and error through my trial and you know, or through 125 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: friends or articles. There's so many places to gain experience, 126 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: even today while even not being out there. So you 127 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: can take those lessons and you'll be presented with a 128 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: similar scenario and you'll say, well, at least I've got 129 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: some ideas on how I should properly act in this situation. Yeah. 130 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: And this goes way way back to really when hunting 131 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: media began and people started communicate about hunting. That's what 132 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: it was. That's what the communication was. It's like, here's 133 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: my experiences. Here's a feature story about you know, Fred 134 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: Bayer going out on a hunt. But then also here's 135 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: how to do a thing that I'm doing. That's been 136 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: the way hunters have communicated for as long as we've 137 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: been communicating in print form, at least, you know, I 138 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: mean think about cave art. Yeah, it's just scratching hunting stories, 139 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: arrow animals hunted me, yeah, meat fire Yeah. And then 140 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: you'll see, you know, especially in our networker podcast, this 141 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: one included. We do some silly things on this show 142 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: and we do some real serious things. And part of 143 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: thinking about building a network of podcasts that are all 144 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: interrelated in some ways to is to make sure they 145 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: all are complemented of each other and your show, I 146 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: feel at least really dives down to like the core 147 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: of how we talk to each other. We tell stories, 148 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: we provide tips and information, and that's like, that's what 149 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: hunting communication is, and that's what it's kind of always been. 150 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: And so we have a lot of we do a 151 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: lot of different things. We have Callahan who just talks 152 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: about in a zoology and random you know, mice infestations 153 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: to Disney World or whatever he's talking about over there, 154 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: what you're doing. I'm glad to see it because it's 155 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: just that kind of a core exercise and what we do. Yeah, 156 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about it. So I hope people check 157 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: it out, enjoy it, subscribe to it. Head over there. 158 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: Should be coming out weekly, so weekly. We're already rocking. 159 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: We're rocking through some episodes. Right after this, we're gonna 160 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: record some and we've got the second episode you go 161 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: through the bear attack on the falk Neck Island and 162 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: then gives some tips about safety in the bear woods 163 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: and how to understand why a bear might attack you. Yeah, 164 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: I think there's uh even if you think I'm not 165 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: gonna be l hunting anytime soon, well, first you should 166 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: go LK hunting, but second there's an entertainment factor outside 167 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: of just the tips that you can take as well. 168 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: A lot of these tips can be translated to a 169 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: lot of different things in different places where you hunt. 170 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: So it would behoove you behoove you to check it out. 171 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: Please share now. And one thing that I wanted to 172 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: do to help prepare you for podcast life because it's 173 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: your first podcast, right that Yeah, I've had a podcast 174 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: for some time now and it comes with some good 175 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: and some bad, uh right, Phil, I mean I haven't 176 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: been in the line of fire as much as you 177 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: have so far, but I would assume yes, you've probably 178 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: seen some some some good and bad. Yes, we've seen 179 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: some good and bad. And so I figured, and this 180 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: is also in the in the frame up. Last night 181 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: I was watching celebrities read mean tweets and Jimmy Kimmel 182 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: find out to be hilarious. So I figured, why not 183 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: do have Phill the engineer read some mean some mean 184 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: comments about this show is gonna get you. This is 185 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: either going to be a winner and be they're gonna 186 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: love it, or it's gonna be the most awkward time 187 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: we've all had together. What do you think? Whatever you 188 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: want to do? Alright, so it's never gonna happen on 189 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: cutting the distance. Here we go, We're gonna start the music. 190 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Not provide Phil now with first comment to read? Phil, 191 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: read it in your best and most theatrical voice. Take 192 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: it away, Phil. I listened to podcasts all day at work, 193 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: and I was starting to run out of content, so 194 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: I subscribed to th HC. I love the other meat 195 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: Eater folks, so I assumed i'd love this too. Wrong. 196 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: O'Brien is just that guy who gets under your skin 197 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: as soon as you hear his voice. I can't put 198 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: my finger on why he is so annoying, but he 199 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: is unbearable. He tries to be funny but fails, and 200 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: he is hanging on so tightly Tonella's coattails that I 201 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: get embarrassed for him. I just can't force myself to 202 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: stomach this podcast. That guy should meet you in real life. Okay, 203 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: stop reading the ship kidding, just joking. I feel like 204 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: that was I like this new segment. I got chills. 205 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: Let's read. Let's read a good one, alright. Lets you 206 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: gotta do like I compliment sandwich Okay, we'll get a 207 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: good one going here, and there's I mean, listen, I 208 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: love all the commentary, even that one. The title of 209 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: that one that you just read. Just awful, just awful. Alright, alright, Philly, 210 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: want me to get to the music I want again 211 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: for you? Yeah, it helps a lot. All right, here 212 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: we go, Phil this one. Read this one. It's called 213 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: top five best hunting podcasts in the world. This is 214 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: in the top five of all hunting podcasts being produced 215 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: on the planet. Not by viewership recognition, industry respect or 216 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: anything tangible like that. Actually it's still relatively obscure, meaning 217 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: you can start listening now and then tell everyone how 218 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: much better it was before quote everyone started listening and 219 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: Ben sold out. Unquote he will. He's a total hipster scum, 220 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: might even be a green decoy. But the kid is 221 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: going places, and you shouldn't miss this opportunity to capitalize 222 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: on his eventual takeover of the hunting podcast segment. Honestly, though, 223 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: it's an extremely thoughtful look at hunting and what makes 224 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: our lifestyle so rewarding and complicated. The show doesn't take 225 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: itself too seriously, but the topics covered are often crucial, controversial, 226 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: and consequential pause for a little moment of silence to 227 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: think about what we've just heard. And we're back, and 228 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: we're back. Well, that was a good one. I don't 229 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: know if the music really fit um the positive review. 230 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: I'm just digging the music. I thought it was. It 231 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: leaves the viewer to decide all things. Some things considered 232 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: with Ben O'Brien and the Hunting Collective, some things, a 233 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: couple of things considered. This is the world you're breaking into, Remy. 234 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: It's a bitter sweet cocktail of emotions. M h, what 235 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: are you feeling about? I quit? That's it. That's it. 236 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: We'll see you guys later. Well, now that we've gone 237 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: through that emotional time, we're gonna get pretty soon to 238 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: our interview segment. And that's Keith Balford from the Boone 239 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: and Crockett Club. We're gonna go through. We go through 240 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: the history of fair Chase in the history kind of 241 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: the Boone Crockett Club, and it's an influence on conservation 242 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: in the Grand Old Country of America. But you were 243 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: telling me, Remy, that Keith measured one of your biggest 244 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: bucks of all time? Is that correct? I think so. 245 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: If I remember correctly. Let's see what's that buck about. 246 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: Uh that was the one that I got in Montana 247 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: with my bow and uh, yeah it was. That was 248 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: a really cool hunt. We talked about that a little 249 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: bit with Keith, Like the difference of you know, they're 250 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: pushing Boone and Crockett kind of has this arborter not arborter, 251 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: but at least microphone for fair chase and these conversations. 252 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: Many people traditionally see it just as a record keeping Dude, 253 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: Boone and Crockett. I haven't listened to this yet, but 254 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: I Boone and Crockett club has done some pretty cool stuff. Um, 255 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: there's a place actually in Nevada, the Sheldon Wildlife analo 256 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: refuge antelope were saved because of the Boone and Crockett Club. 257 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: Like it just hunters getting together saying we need to regulate, 258 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: like we need to regulate this pretty much from commercial hunting. 259 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: And then the record keeping is just a form. I 260 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: see it as a form of really showing the progress 261 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: of where the genetics have gone. It's it's a measurable 262 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: it's something measurable, and you just compare apples to apples, 263 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: and yeah, it's not fair that you're this way a 264 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: score is you're taking, you're deducting from a grow. It's 265 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: just behind beside all that stuff. It's really cool to 266 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: just be able to see, you know, the changes over time. 267 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: And I think, I don't know, maybe if somebody else 268 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: has brought this up, but I honestly think right now 269 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: is the good old days. It's the good It's just 270 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: there's more game. There's bigger animals according to our measurement 271 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: system or the Boone and Crockett type measuring system. Now 272 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: maybe they're different, and just the advancements of technology and 273 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: hunting tactics have changed which you make it. I don't know. 274 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: There's just it's you look through that and it's just like, man, 275 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: there's some cool stuff going on right now, Oh my god. 276 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: And it's a good success story. It's still fraught with 277 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: lots of issues, but it's never it's never not going 278 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: to be, you know, fraught with all types of issues 279 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: when it comes to wildlife management and ecosystems. But they're, 280 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: like I said, there's more opportunity than ever. There's a 281 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: movement for public lands and access, there's a movement for 282 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: better wildlife management. There's a movement to educate people about 283 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: what hunting has been. And when you listen to Keith 284 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: talk about the Boon and Crack Club, you'll suddenly forget 285 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: that they've ever measured a bone in their life, they 286 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: ever measured an antler in their life. You'll forget that 287 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: because there's so much there's so much weight behind the 288 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: history of that club that you you almost say, well, 289 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: if I'm gonna tell the story been a crack club, 290 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: I wouldn't almost the trophy scoring aspect is a footnote 291 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: to what they've done and what they meant for conservation. 292 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: So Keith is a good was a good arbor of 293 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: kind of like what's important and why? Uh? In that 294 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: conversation And you know, like I said in your podcast, 295 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: you talk about the biggest buck. You make some good 296 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: compents in your first podcast about you know why, Yeah, 297 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: it's the biggest block I've ever seen, But like, why 298 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: is it important to me to go chase that? You know, 299 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: I love a good big buck just like the next guy. 300 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: But there's something about you know, if you think about it, 301 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: you're like you're hunting one deer or a certain deer, 302 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: you actually get more hunting experience, Like for me to 303 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: chase what would be considered h if I'm looking for 304 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: like a deer that is a good scoring or like 305 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: what would Boone and Crocker would consider a big buck. 306 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: It's just puts restrictions on me of what I'm hunting 307 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: for and allows me to be in the field longer 308 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: and that more time spent in the field. If I 309 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: don't fill my tag, that's just time acquired, like experience gained, 310 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: which overall makes me a better hunter. Yeah. No, And 311 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: it's looking from the outside in, people might think, well, 312 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: he's just chasing big islands, but it's just that's just 313 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: not what it is. I mean, you are, but it's 314 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: not the only thing that matters. Now, it's me. It's 315 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: chasing the arians. And it's hard to get that experience 316 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: if you go home on the first day because those 317 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: bigger deer are harder to find and harder to get, 318 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of times you're like, I'm just gonna 319 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: go after one type of buck. You're probably gonna go 320 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: home empty handed. You're probably gonna hunt the whole dang season, 321 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: and during that season you're gonna learn so much about 322 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: what you're chasing that you know it's gonna make it 323 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: even easier next time, for sure. All the things you do. 324 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: You know, you just got back from Muflan hunt. You 325 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: have been in Lithuania this year, Australia, Lithuania, get there, right, Yeah, 326 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: but I was hunting in the UK and then Australia 327 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: and New Zealand everywhere. All have lots of different places. 328 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: What's the pinnacle for you right now? Like, what's the 329 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: pinnacle hunting experience? M Because I don't mean, I don't 330 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: think there's anybody that I know that haunts is hard 331 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: and as long as you do in different places. So 332 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: I really like obviously I really like sheep sheep, mountain 333 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: goat type hunts um because of the terrain. It's the 334 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: country that you get to go in, and I feel 335 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: like it's a really rare opportunity. So when you get 336 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: those opportunities, it's just it's special because you don't I mean, 337 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot of times, you know, that's the kind 338 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: of hunt that I want to go on, whether it's 339 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: just a friend draws the tag or whatever, because you 340 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: don't get those opportunities that often. So anytime I get 341 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: that kind of opportunity, I'm pretty excited. But one thing 342 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: that I do love is chasing high country meal dear 343 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: early season with my bow. That's um, there's just something 344 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: about it. I love that high, high desert, high alpine 345 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: type stuff. Whether it's Nevada or Montana or wherever I do, 346 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I love that high country type hunting. 347 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: And then I mean, I've made my living since graduating 348 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: high school as an Elk guide. So for me, calling 349 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: Elk is the besknees. I love calling Elk for people 350 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: I'd rather actually call Elk. That's the best part about 351 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: bow season is calling Elk. I love and you I'm 352 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: gonna do some episodes, some podcast episodes on calling Elk 353 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: or you will understand my hashion, my philosophies, and maybe 354 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: it's I hope it's stuff that nobody has heard before 355 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,479 Speaker 1: from other people because the way I elt call I 356 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: was taught by the Elk. I know, I went out 357 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: there and I did not really listen to I just 358 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: I just started learning from the elchem and mimicking that. 359 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: And so I probably have some techniques that I do 360 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: that a lot of people probably think or I don't 361 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: know about, or think are weird or think are wrong, 362 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: and they aren't because you know, in order to be 363 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: a successful elk, a successfully and you gotta get good 364 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: at it. You back it up to a lot of people. 365 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: And I think in this podcast, I tell people, I'm 366 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: I've hunted a lot, but I would never very selectively 367 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: level tips because I just think it's it's something that 368 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: you really have to have your mind wrapped around. I 369 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: really have to have done. There's I've had some successes 370 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: where I tell you stories, but there's very few pursuits 371 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: where I feel like an expert. Turkeys maybe, and there's 372 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: some different thing, but but for you, your whole, your 373 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: whole business of being an elk god is being able 374 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: to complete that process. That's it. Oh yeah, and you 375 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: gotta do it regularly every week, whether it's a good 376 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: week or a bad week. Like the animals don't. One 377 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: of the things that I will talk about is people 378 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: call I read so many articles of people saying elk 379 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: er call shy. We'll talk about that. Stop saying that. 380 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: Another episode of Cutting the Distance. All right, Well, Remy's 381 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: podcast just launched this Thursday, so we're a couple of five, 382 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: six days in. It's already getting some some good reviews, 383 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: and I feel like we will end this little segment 384 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: with a little bit of good review reading by Phill 385 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: the Engineer. You're ready, Phil, Yeah, a little soundtrack action. 386 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: This is Hall of Notes. Ready, Yeah, it sounds good. 387 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: All right? Read the this review. Remy warrants cutting the 388 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: this sense great start. Premy has a great concept to 389 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: start his podcast, and the way he has the storytelling 390 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: is on point, and how he pivots those stories to 391 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: educational takeaways for others to benefit from is really cool 392 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: and I can't wait to hear more. I hope he 393 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: interviews other hunters in in the community and allows them 394 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: to share their stories in detail and things they've learned 395 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: in those instances. I wouldn't mind the episodes being longer 396 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: than thirty minutes. Thanks awesome. Yeah, thanks guy or Gal. 397 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: I love him. That sacks kicks in him really makes 398 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: that review, picks that review up. Yeah, oh here it 399 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: comes all right? Thanks cool. Yeah, I really appreciate whoever 400 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: dropped that little nugget in there, and we do appreciate that, 401 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: and we appreciate all all reviews we're making having a 402 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: little fun with it all here, but but honestly, we 403 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: can't do this out feedback. Remy can't do his show 404 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: without feedback. I can't do mine without feedback. Good, bad, 405 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: and different. It all is important. Um, As Remy says 406 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: in his podcast, if it's bad, maybe just email it. Yeah. 407 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: If it's good, address your concerns. Yeah, in a better way, 408 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: in a better way. But yes, we we very much 409 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: appreciate all that. And all the feedback comes into the emails. 410 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: Remy's got an email Remy at the Meat Eater dot 411 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: com that yeah you do. Yeah, you can email Remy 412 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: at the media dot com. It comes right to his 413 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: inbox and mind too. So you never know who's going 414 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: to reply to you. What could be one of If 415 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: it's like snarky reply, it's definitely not me, because I'm 416 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: pretty chill. Yeah. If it seems a little if it 417 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: seems a little overwritten, it's probably me. So do that. 418 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: Go find cutting the distance, give it a five star ratings, subscribe. 419 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: It will come right into your podcast platform every week. 420 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: Then they'll have Remy Warren right there with you. Please, guys, 421 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: appreciate it. All Right, we're gonna get to we're gonna 422 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: travel back in time. About two or three weeks we 423 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: had Keith Balford from Buda Crockett in this room, just 424 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: talk all things trophies, all things conservation, and then a 425 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: real deep dial on fair Chase. I enjoyed it. I 426 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: hope you will too. Give it a listen, Keith, how's 427 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: it going, man, it's good, going, good, Ben, Welcome to 428 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: the Meat Eater Studio. Meat Eater Studios, World Headquarters, World Headquarters. 429 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: What do you think? I like it. I like it. 430 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: I like everybody's dress cash very very Montana. It's a 431 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: flip flop friendly office, totally. Yeah. Yeah, some people take 432 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: it too far, I feel, um, but you just you 433 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: gotta walk that back every once in a while. It 434 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: looks like a lot of surfers here. Not a lot 435 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: of surfing in Bozeman, No, not that I've seen. Or 436 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: a dog friendly office, a flip flop friendly office in 437 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: a hunting friendly office. And we've got surfers in Missoula 438 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: right in front of our offices. That's true. Well, um, well, 439 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: always started by telling people who you are. That's always good. 440 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: I always like to ask people to describe the surroundings. 441 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: But we describe these surroundings many times already on the show. 442 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: So let's get that part. But um, yeah, tell people 443 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: who you are and where you work. Who are I? Well, 444 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: I am the director marketing for the Boone and Crockett Club, 445 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: and our world headquarters is three hours up the freeway 446 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: from here in Missouri in Montana, Yes, sir, and I've 447 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: been there, dare I say eighteen years? Yeah, I've seen 448 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: a lot of change in that organization over that time. 449 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: A lot of change in the organization. UM, A lot 450 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: of changes in my hunting industry. I've been in the 451 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: industry for I got thirty years or more, so I've 452 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: seen a lot of changes there too, UM, mostly for 453 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: the good. Yeah, knock on wood. This is wood, isn't it? Yeah? 454 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: It is? Would or it's like some facimil of would 455 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: UM tell people I think there are I would posit 456 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: that there are misconceptions about the Boon and Crocket Club 457 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: out there. Do you agree with that? Of people just 458 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: think it's like the Big Bucks Big Bulls Club. It's 459 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: that primarily, UM or you know, a bit bunch of 460 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: rich white guys sitting around. UM. But that's understandable. I mean, 461 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: the records book and the records program is the public 462 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: face of the club. It's the longest standing thing that 463 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: people are aware of. UM. But actually, you know, if 464 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: you we're an accountenance about ten percent of our budget. 465 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: Our main thrust since day one has been conservation, advancing conservation, 466 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: establishing it, establishing the institutions of conservation. The funding is 467 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: this all the way goes back to Teddy Roosevelt, who 468 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: founded the organization with George burg Gunnel. And yeah, yeah, 469 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: that's the most kind of the next thing, I want 470 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: to talk about the history of the club because I 471 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: think we know who Boone Crockett were. We're all aware 472 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: of those names. Um, maybe not the ennesis of the 473 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: club so much though, So take people through that period 474 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: with with Colonel Grann Allen here. If you're a sportsman, 475 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: a hunter of conservation, it's a great story and and 476 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: I won't be able to come it all entirely here, 477 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: but I can give you that the nickel to her. Roosevelt, 478 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: you know, before he became president, he was very keenly 479 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: interested in nature and naturalist. He collected birds, He did 480 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, at home taxidermy. Um. He aspired to live 481 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: the hardy life of the outdoors. Um was kind of 482 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: a sickly child. The doctor said, you need to get outdoors, 483 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: split wood, right, horses, shoot, you know all that kind 484 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: of stuff, and his his exploits led him out west, 485 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: where he bought a ranch in the Dakota Territory, tried 486 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: his hand at cattle ranching. Was there for a couple 487 00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: of years anyway, And uh, that really where he bore 488 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: witness to what was happening with our wildlife in particular. Um, 489 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: there's accounts of him saying, you know, he wanted kind 490 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: of buffalo before they're all gone. And you know he said, 491 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: you know, we were never in sight of alive buffalo 492 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: or out of sight of the bleached bones of by. 493 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: So he came back to New York in December of 494 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: eight seven. Prior to that, he had struck up a 495 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: friendship with George Berger. Now, those two hatched the idea 496 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: of forming a coalition of their buddies, who are all sportsmen, 497 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,239 Speaker 1: to address the decline of wildlife, especially big game, on 498 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: a national scale. UM. At that time there was some 499 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: small sportsman's clubs that had merged trying to right the ship, 500 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: if you will, because wildlife was vanishing an alarming rate. 501 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: So Roosevelt invited twelve of his best buds to a 502 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: dinner party and through this idea at them and and 503 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: these guys were kind of the well to do elites 504 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: of New York City at the time, industrialist politicians, bankers, 505 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: and they were all in. And so they decided to 506 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: name the club after their hunter heroes of the time, 507 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, and they just kind of hit 508 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: the ground running. Um, it's an interesting guy economy to 509 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: the think that these urban elites. And we've talked about 510 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: this in the podcast before, so it's it's interesting that 511 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: there's a group of urban elites getting together and talking 512 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: about conservation and wildlife issues or today we don't see, 513 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: we don't think in modern times that there's there's this 514 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: concern for the national world coming out of our urban centers. 515 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: Like no, that's that's a great, great observation. But these 516 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: these were the New York power brokers, and um, they 517 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: were all sportsmen, they were adventurers, they were explorers. Um, 518 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, they were the ones that were witness to 519 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: the plight of wildlife, saw what irresponsible land use practices 520 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: we're going on. They didn't necessarily have an idea and 521 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: how to fix it, but they brought experts in. That's 522 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: how the club grew in size. They kept recruiting people 523 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: that that had problem solving skills, and believe it or not, 524 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: the very first thing the club did was was save, Protect, 525 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: and expand Yellowstone Park. So here was the first, the 526 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: nation's first national park. It wasn't only a park by name. 527 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: Nobody knew what it meant. Um. You know, it was 528 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: being plundered, um poaching, timber mining, the guys ares, the 529 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: artifacts are being defaced, and you know, here's a group 530 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: of sportsmen saying, well, here's the place we can't hunt, 531 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: but we're gonna save it. And so that was the 532 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: That was their first dose of the process that they 533 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: would follow, which was legislation. So they drafted and passed 534 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: the Yellowstone Protection Act, which at the time was the 535 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: first time Congress had weighed in on any matter of 536 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: wildlife conservation or natural resource conservation. So that was another first. 537 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: Well there was there's other the funny part and as 538 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: I was reading about years of history of your organizations, 539 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: like there there there are some monumental pieces of legislation 540 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: that were championed by has been a Crocker Club, Lacey Act. Um, 541 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: you're talking to PIMN. Robertson Act, Federal Duck Stand Migratory 542 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: Bird Treaty Act that the Timberland Reserve bill um all 543 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: kinds of fancy names, but the end result was the 544 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: establishment of our national forest, federal public lands, national wildlife refugees, 545 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: the expert agencies to man these things. So US Fish 546 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service, Bureau land manage meant us for a service. 547 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: These were all, you know, we say Boone and Crockett initiatives. 548 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: I like to say sportsman's initiatives. These guys were all 549 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: avid hunters and they saw, you know, value in specifically 550 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: federal public lands. I know that's a hot topic right now. 551 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: It's access to these lands, and their main goal, what 552 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: they came together for was recovering wildlife. And and so 553 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,239 Speaker 1: here comes these hunters, and Roosevelt in particular, getting up 554 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: and saying, well, the best way to save what's left 555 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: of the wildlife that we have is to continue to 556 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: hunt them. Completely counterintuitive. I mean the sales pitch of 557 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: this entry. And they nominated Sportsman to be the stewards 558 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: and the vanguards of this because Sportsman benefited directly from 559 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: the opportunity to hunt, the traditions to hunt, the connectivity 560 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: to the land and the wildlife. And back then I mean, 561 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: I've done some reading and and try to dig up 562 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: like a nine. There's a National Wildlife the first, I 563 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: think the first ever National Wildlife Conference, Frankin D. Roosevelt 564 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: brought a thousand groups together. You have and you look 565 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: there and it's like garden clubs and things that you 566 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: don't really think of when you think of when the 567 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: modern hunter things of conservation. There are a lot of 568 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: groups in there that were stakeholders that we don't think 569 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: of as stakeholders within our hunt, like our North American 570 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: model now. So it's funny to think of how we've shifted, 571 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: how we still think of ourselves as stewards of conservation, 572 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: but we've kind of shifted the definition of who's in 573 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: our bubble, who's who's out without Well, that's an important 574 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: distinction to make, Ben. I mean, we live in the 575 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: you know, the hunter conservationist community. But truth be told, 576 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: there's conservation going on lots of places, a lot of 577 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: people involved in it that have nothing to do with hunting. 578 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: Um just concerned people, concerned groups, rotaries, local groups, local clubs, 579 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: um gardening like you said, gardening clubs, bird watching clubs, 580 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, wetland restoration groups. You know, all those types 581 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: of things, like the local rod and Gun club back 582 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: then was a huge thing, very influential, and it's almost 583 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: it's not completely gone now, but it certainly doesn't hold 584 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,720 Speaker 1: any influence on a national conservation levels. And and those 585 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: local groups were important that those were actually what started 586 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: I remember I said this was Roosevelt founded this to 587 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: be the first group to take on these matters on 588 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: a national scale. These matters were being dealt with at 589 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: a local level um and and spawned out of the 590 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: same wildlife crisis that got the club going. Yeah. Yeah. 591 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: And it's so it's important to though, in the modern sense, 592 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: when we talk about what what the Buda Crockett Club is. 593 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: I I don't think everyone thinks this, but I think 594 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: there's you know, the casual observer. Well, like you said, 595 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: think of big Bucks and big bulls and tailers and 596 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: measuring and what's certified and what isn't and all those 597 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 1: types of things. But when you aga into the history 598 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: of conservation this country, Boone Crockett is right there. I mean, 599 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: it's right there, it is, and there's you know, weeks 600 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: sometimes joke to ourselves here that the club's kind of 601 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: written out of history. Because you'll you'll read accounts of 602 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: Grinnell and all the Litopold and pin Show and some 603 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: of these people and the club will never be mentioned, 604 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,280 Speaker 1: and truth be told, part of that was by design. Um, 605 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, Roosevelt was the walks softly, carry a big stick. 606 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: And and a lot of these early club members we're 607 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, eccentric, super influential people, and and so they 608 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: chose to kind of work quietly behind the scenes to 609 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: get things done, especially when it came to legislation. So 610 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: who was writing these bills was not public knowledge, but 611 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: it was Sportsman and it was members of the club. 612 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: And you mentioned the Lacy Act. John Lacy was a member. 613 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: He passed, you know, to significant bills that dropped the 614 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: hammer on commercial market hunting. Um Pittman Robertson was another one, 615 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: establishing some of the national parks that we have. Glacier 616 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: we talked about Yellowstone Glaciers, another one. Denali is another one. 617 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,479 Speaker 1: These these were hunters that said, you know, these these 618 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 1: places need preserved. Yeah. And back then because this was such, 619 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: you know, these things were just growing, their foundations were 620 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: becoming real. There's things like the Audubon Society and the 621 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: New York Zoology Society, like these things that we're connected 622 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 1: to the boding track of club where now we don't like. Again, 623 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: the point to make is we don't see that now. 624 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: Back then there was the ground swell was a bit 625 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: had a bit more breath direct connection. New York Zoological 626 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: Society was run by William T. Hornerday who was a 627 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: club member. Audubon Society was started by George burrg Grennell, 628 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: who helped find the club with Roosevelt. So there there 629 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: was a network of these groups that were spun out 630 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: of you know, club members went off and did their thing, 631 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: or this organization got going and there was a lot 632 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,879 Speaker 1: of synergy and so there was cross membership. Campfire Club 633 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: is another one that was closely associated with the club. 634 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: Do you see that today that I didn't I didn't 635 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,359 Speaker 1: predict to talk about this when I was thinking about 636 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: what we might talk about, But you see today we have. 637 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 1: We talked about this in recent podcasts where it's just 638 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: the facts that we have a lot of great conservation 639 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: organizations in our world, whether it be a single species 640 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: organization like Rocky Mountain ELK or or something more general 641 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,919 Speaker 1: like Buona Crockett or TRCP or what what have you. There, 642 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: everybody's once members, everybody's needs the attention. Everybody wants to 643 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: have an impact. That creates a competition, not intentionally, but 644 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: it creates like some jockey areas, there's a business reality 645 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 1: to what I can tell you. And you asked if 646 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: if there's cooperation or some connectivity. So back in two 647 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: thousand UM, this is one of the things that the 648 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: club was noticing is we had no unity. We're all 649 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: we're all kind of pulling in the same direction, but 650 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: in some cases we're being counterproductive with each other. And 651 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: so the club hosted a summit in Missoula and brought 652 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: in all of these conservations, everybody that would come, and 653 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 1: the result of that was the formation of American Wildlife 654 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: Conservation Partners, which is just a coalition of all these 655 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: groups trying to unify a voice and and primarily in 656 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: the legislative and political arena where we can come forward 657 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: and say, well, these groups represent this many million sportsmen, voters, taxpayers, 658 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: and we believe this. And so there's a lot of 659 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: unity there and that's you know us the critter groups, 660 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: uh N, SSP and r a UM all the way 661 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: down like the Woodcock Association, and it was a rough 662 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: Grouse Society, and you know, all all of those right now, 663 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: it's I think it's like forty five different groups that 664 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: are part of this and and they share information, we 665 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: share ideas, as we share science. We do sign on letters. 666 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: Every time there's a turnover in the presidential administration, we 667 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: produce a document called Wildlife for the twenty one Century 668 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: that outlines issues important to our community and proposed solutions, 669 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: and that that's been helpful in transitioning from one administration 670 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: to another. So would you compare that, you know, as 671 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: I think about you know, the thirties and the turn 672 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: of the century and the grounds while we talked about 673 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: do you feel like there's that same kind of through 674 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: the A w c P and in other groups, is 675 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: that the same kind of feeling that that we have 676 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: that power and unity? Wasn't a room back then, so 677 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: I could I can't speak with that. Yeah, maybe we 678 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: maybe like grandizing that. Maybe I don't know, but it 679 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,399 Speaker 1: just seemed like there was when when when that first 680 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: conference was held, when you read the accounts of it, 681 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: you know, it certainly seems like the ground swell was strong, 682 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: and I just in the modern sense I wonder where 683 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: we are. Well, that's a that's a great question, Ben. 684 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: I think there was a time when when it was 685 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: much more connected, and then I think there was a 686 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: sleepy period. Um. I think after World War Two, Um, 687 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: the fruits of all of this labor in conservation had 688 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: paid its dividends. Wildlife was recovering, was recovered, um, and 689 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: there just wasn't as much you know activity, I guess. 690 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: As a great way to put it, a lot of 691 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: the legislation was done, the funding mechanisms were done, the 692 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: expert agencies were done, the science was being done. Um. 693 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 1: You know, there was trained professionals, there was was careers 694 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 1: and college degrees in all of the wildlife sciences. All 695 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: that stuff that the club and others put into motion 696 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: was was there. It's like been invented. Um. I would 697 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: say probably in the last twenty five years that there's 698 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: been a reawakening. You've seen of new groups come on board, 699 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: like tr CP, back country hunters, and anglers tend to 700 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: name a few. Um. You know, a w CP came 701 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: along in two thousand. Um. Yeah, I don't think many 702 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: people know about it, a w c P because it's 703 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: such an inner industry, inner thing. UM. But it is important. 704 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: I mean it's something where like you said, I mean 705 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,400 Speaker 1: it has a real impact on a lotlife hunting and 706 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,879 Speaker 1: conservation policies and directions. It does. And you talk about memberships, well, 707 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of you know, I know, people 708 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: that belong to Boone and Crockett and they belong to 709 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,919 Speaker 1: t RCP, and they belong to ELK, and they belong 710 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 1: to Wild Sheep. It's important that those members that are 711 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,240 Speaker 1: supporting those organizations know that there is a mother ship 712 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: that all of these groups are you know, kind of 713 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: convening with and sharing ideas and and you know, the 714 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: whole strength in numbers type of a thing. So yeah, 715 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: I would I would say our community is more organized 716 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: than probably ever before and are connected. Um. All of 717 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: groups Boone and Crockett included, is still working on their 718 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 1: pet things. They're specialized deals obviously Elks, ELK and ELK, 719 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: Habitat and Grouse and all that. UM. But there's a 720 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: lot of crossover, and there's a lot of crossover within 721 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: the organizations as far as leadership. UM. You know, almost 722 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,280 Speaker 1: all of the CEOs are executive directors of a w CP, 723 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,280 Speaker 1: are professional members of Boone and Crockett. We've got Boone 724 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,439 Speaker 1: and Crockett members on boards of other organizations. So well. 725 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: The reason, the kind of the reason we're here, Keith, 726 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,880 Speaker 1: is because it was this last January and we've had 727 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: we've done this before this last January, but you and 728 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: Shane Mahoney and I were having some booze in the 729 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: Circle Bar there and the Wild Chief Show and so 730 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,359 Speaker 1: those that would probably more entertaining podcast. Those those that's 731 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: good fly on the walls, that's good fall stuff. But 732 00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,760 Speaker 1: we always get into, you know, how Shane is. Shane 733 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: is very very well spoken, very intelligent, but also um, 734 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: he can be a little bit bombastic about like where 735 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: we are and how desperate situation is. And so it's 736 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: fun and he Shane did, I have a good enough 737 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 1: relationship and as you do too, and he lets me 738 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: kind of poke him and make fun of him a 739 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: little bit and chide him for some of his dramatic statements. 740 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 1: But when we're talking about a lot of times you 741 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: talk about like the public facing image of hunting and 742 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: how how important that is. We talk about that at 743 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: NAZI on this show, and and so I'm reluctant to 744 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,919 Speaker 1: kind of approach it the same way. But there's the 745 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: there's something about in the hunting community wanting to be 746 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: fair to the animal, right, the concept of wanting to 747 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,879 Speaker 1: be fair to the animal. And we'll we'll go through 748 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: kind of the modern constructs of that. But give us 749 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 1: a from your perspective, how that started. Like, I know, 750 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 1: I know, that's it's a long held idea. It's an 751 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: idea that we've twisted and turned throughout throughout time. But 752 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,760 Speaker 1: from your perspective, from even from a bon cracker, respective, 753 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: where did where did this idea spring from? This idea 754 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: spring from? And again it goes back to Roosevelt Grinnell 755 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: kind of the Okay, what are we gonna do? And Um, 756 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,919 Speaker 1: the concept of a hunting ethic and ethos if you will, 757 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: or a standard actually originated in Europe. Um, but it 758 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: originated on the on the estates and and their wildlife 759 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 1: was managed by the gamekeeper, and that there was a 760 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 1: code of ethical conduct that went on if you were 761 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: going to pursue the game in that area. The public 762 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,439 Speaker 1: for the most part in Europe didn't hunt, they didn't 763 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: have access to wildlife. Unfortunately, that ethical standard did not 764 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:50,800 Speaker 1: transfer over on the mayflower um, you know, are are 765 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: you know, the the empire builders and the pioneers and 766 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: the settlers that came here landed in this this you know, 767 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: land of opportunity, this corner copy of wildlife and abundance. 768 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: There was the impression that wildlife was inexhaustible manifest destiny 769 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,439 Speaker 1: did not do well for it did not do well 770 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: for for ethics. So it was it was a free 771 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: for all. And uh so we don't have to go 772 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:19,720 Speaker 1: into that. But when Roosevelt came fourth and and started 773 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: to pitch this idea of conservation, which really even at 774 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: the time wasn't a word in the English language UM 775 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: and was nominating sportsman to be the deliverers of this 776 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: new system, this new relationship between man and natural resources. 777 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 1: And the club went through all of these things that 778 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: we just talked about, the legislation and the expert agencies 779 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: there there there was a piece that was missing, and 780 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: that was this concept of an ethical approach. And they 781 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 1: called it fair chase. And it's it's interesting that, um 782 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 1: it had many uses. UM. The first use was conservation 783 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 1: is a discipline of self restraint. And in its essence, 784 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna use, but use wisely save so 785 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,320 Speaker 1: we have some for tomorrow. The sustainable use of the 786 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:24,320 Speaker 1: exactly well fair chase is is is a standard or 787 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: a discipline that is the same thing. It's self restraint. 788 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 1: And so if your if your goal is recovering wildlife, 789 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: yet you still want to hunt and we still want 790 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:39,319 Speaker 1: to have public access to wildlife hunting and fishing. Um, 791 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 1: this ethical code of conduct was was really a foundational 792 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 1: to conservation. They're intertwined. So that was that was one 793 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle. Is there is there a day 794 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: and time where like the fair chase first became you know, 795 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: was first written down or articulators. That's a great question, um. 796 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: The notes that we have the very first meeting of 797 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:06,280 Speaker 1: the Moon and Crockett Club, they discussed in just seven 798 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't called fair chase then that came about a 799 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: few years later. I didn't know that. I didn't know 800 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,919 Speaker 1: it was that old. I mean, you're talking a year old, 801 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: hunder thirty year old idea, um, because that's comparatively the 802 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: North American model of conservation. Where people think of this idea. 803 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: You know, we're discussing kind of the tenants of it 804 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 1: a bit, but it wasn't formulated until the eighties. Folks 805 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,359 Speaker 1: who listen this podcast will know of our our two 806 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 1: part conversation with Shae Mahoney about it, and we got 807 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: into that history. Um. But it's interesting how these things 808 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,840 Speaker 1: kind of all over time because I didn't, you say it, 809 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: fair Chase, I didn't. It's it's a little bit shocking 810 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 1: to me that it was being discussed all the way 811 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,359 Speaker 1: back because it was such a dichotomy. People out west 812 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: didn't get a ship there out there shooting buffalo at nausea. 813 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: That it was, but that was part of it. If if, 814 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 1: if you saw why wildlife was disappearing in alarming rate, 815 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 1: and while we were losing species to extinction, it was 816 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: over harvest um. And it wasn't all commercial, you know, 817 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: commercial market hunting was certainly in play, but unregulated sport hunting, 818 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,680 Speaker 1: substance hunting, you know, no game laws, no real understanding 819 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: of reproduction cycles and habitat quality and and and all 820 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,879 Speaker 1: of that that we didn't have the wildlife sciences back then. 821 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: So again, if if, if, restraint was going to need 822 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,839 Speaker 1: to be in order, and and Roosevelt knew that there 823 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,840 Speaker 1: needed to be order, and and order meant game laws. 824 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: You know, we were gonna have to come along with 825 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,839 Speaker 1: a set of rules that said, you know, hunting can't 826 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 1: be seven three six, there's gonna be hunting seasons, there's 827 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:58,239 Speaker 1: gonna be reasonable bag limits set for recovery um. And 828 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: you think about the natural progression. I wish it would 829 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 1: have happened sooner, but as our country was, you know, 830 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 1: people laying here in the late fourteen hundreds, and it 831 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 1: takes hundreds of years, decades for us to get to 832 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,520 Speaker 1: a point where we have a stable society post civil war, 833 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: we can start to like we and and now we 834 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,799 Speaker 1: have refrigeration and railroads and we're starting to to It 835 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: feels like the nation is becoming smaller in a lot 836 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: of ways, and it can manage itself in that way. 837 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 1: That's just that the natural progression of of our society. Absolutely, 838 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,399 Speaker 1: and this country is marked with good things coming out 839 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,640 Speaker 1: of crisis. You know, you just hey, just become self evident. 840 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:43,400 Speaker 1: We just can't continue this anymore. So this ethic was 841 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: also important to get sportsmen of that day to buy 842 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:53,399 Speaker 1: in to self restraint and conservation um. Because Roosevelt knew 843 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,799 Speaker 1: these game laws would becoming and it wasn't an easy sell. 844 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 1: I mean, these guys were used to, you know, shooting 845 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: whenever they want whenever they want it. And then you know, 846 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,040 Speaker 1: along with that, you know, we can talk about trophy 847 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,360 Speaker 1: and all that that's connected to this as well. But 848 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 1: once we had game was established, something in our game 849 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,480 Speaker 1: was initially we're built off of fair chase principles. You know, 850 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:21,560 Speaker 1: these hunting methods are not sustainable. This style of harvest 851 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: is not sustainable. Yeah, let's talk about that a little 852 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 1: bit too, because I think I've got some things that 853 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,239 Speaker 1: I normally you know, I've given some ethics panels, we 854 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 1: talked about fair chase and some things that I try 855 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,680 Speaker 1: to positive about the future of it. But in the 856 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: past of it, we have some fair chase principles that 857 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 1: are not connected to two game laws. Some that are 858 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,839 Speaker 1: suggested like models of behavior. They extend beyond the law. 859 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: That's the ethical, that's the actually the personal. So there's yeah, 860 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,759 Speaker 1: there's personal ethics, situational ethics that go beyond the law. 861 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: But I think to back up from that, that's one 862 00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 1: that's the more the less tangible conversation, what should you 863 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,239 Speaker 1: do in this situation or how should you build your 864 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,719 Speaker 1: personal construct of of how you act? All phone when 865 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,320 Speaker 1: you're alone or with a small group of people in 866 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,279 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. So we have we have that part. 867 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 1: We'll get to that part. But one thing that I 868 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,480 Speaker 1: may have missed and some of my earlier conversations and 869 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,640 Speaker 1: some of my assertions about the future of fair chase 870 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,399 Speaker 1: is how connected are the the origin of our game 871 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: laws are to this, to the core code here. Okay, 872 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,200 Speaker 1: that's a that's a good question. How do you like, 873 00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,080 Speaker 1: how do you how do you see those two things 874 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,279 Speaker 1: in relation? Because I, like I said, I'm not taken 875 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,359 Speaker 1: aback that it goes back that far. So as game 876 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,799 Speaker 1: laws kind of matriculated and become the model of which 877 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,799 Speaker 1: we how we fund and how we regulate hunting, how 878 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: much do those fair chase ideas impacted it? And there's 879 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: no way to really know, but you can certainly can 880 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,759 Speaker 1: positive and they're they're connected more than you think if 881 00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,759 Speaker 1: you start thinking about it. So if if you put 882 00:51:55,360 --> 00:52:00,400 Speaker 1: wildlife recovery is the goal, and you know ethical state enters, 883 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 1: an ethical treatment of fair shake, an honest effort, that 884 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:09,000 Speaker 1: that's fair chase. So that sits over on this side. Um, 885 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,919 Speaker 1: but the very first game laws we're based on fair 886 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:18,120 Speaker 1: chase from the standpoint of using restraint. So they were 887 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,359 Speaker 1: they were aimed at things like punt guns that were 888 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,480 Speaker 1: just you know, shooting entire flocks of ducks with one shot. 889 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,759 Speaker 1: And you know what they used to call crusting, which 890 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,000 Speaker 1: was chasing game mired in deep snow, um jack lighting, 891 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, running running around the woods at night with 892 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 1: lanterns to confuse the game and drive them. The shooters 893 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,920 Speaker 1: driving game into two lakes and ponds and shooting them 894 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,520 Speaker 1: from canoes. These are often, these are often I think 895 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: it's an important distinction. These are often market hunter. I mean, 896 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,279 Speaker 1: there are some native idea, like there's a lot of 897 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 1: native subsistance tribes that all, we're not far here from 898 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,879 Speaker 1: Buffalo Jo. Yeah, that's right, exactly where I was going, 899 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,240 Speaker 1: Like this is this is so these are deeper seated practice. 900 00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,360 Speaker 1: Those those methods that were accustomed and customary at the 901 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,960 Speaker 1: time and appropriate at the time, that were meant for 902 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,239 Speaker 1: massive harvest with least effort. Those were the things that 903 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,279 Speaker 1: our first game was went after because that was the 904 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: biggest swath of what was unsustainable um and and really 905 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,400 Speaker 1: past that then you have you know, the hunting season 906 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: and then the reasonable bag limits. It's it's going to 907 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,640 Speaker 1: be you know, six grouse a day or so many 908 00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,400 Speaker 1: ducks a day, or you know, one deer season or 909 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 1: two deer season. And I imagine it was you know, 910 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,759 Speaker 1: and I've I've read about this and and and looked 911 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,960 Speaker 1: into this. It's like, how can we first stem the tide, 912 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 1: stopped the systemic problem? How do we make sure that 913 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,720 Speaker 1: we regulate out the systemic problem of killing game at nausea? 914 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm killing you know, raving And and it was a 915 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,759 Speaker 1: culture shift. I mean, you grew up in that day. 916 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:06,040 Speaker 1: I mean we probably were named after Daniel Boone and 917 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,040 Speaker 1: Davy Crockett. They were some of the biggest harvesters out there. Um, 918 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,160 Speaker 1: but even they if you read some of the biographies, 919 00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,600 Speaker 1: especially on Boone later in life, he realized that what 920 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,480 Speaker 1: he was doing was unsustainable and him opening up territories 921 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,439 Speaker 1: to to settlement. He got to see, you know, this 922 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,000 Speaker 1: was game abundant land when I got here, and within 923 00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,319 Speaker 1: ten short years anything within a twenty mile radius of 924 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:37,919 Speaker 1: the settlement was yeah, you know, scorched earth. So they 925 00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:42,400 Speaker 1: actually started to spawn some conservation values and realized that 926 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:48,759 Speaker 1: that you know, human capabilities can outpace the resource real 927 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,320 Speaker 1: quickly yeah, and I think I think this is a 928 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,719 Speaker 1: good time just to bring in like the definition of 929 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,160 Speaker 1: fair chases. Boone and Crockett sees it. I'm sure you've 930 00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 1: got that memorized it. Yeah, it's the ethical law I 931 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,640 Speaker 1: got in front of me. It's ethical sports and like 932 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,400 Speaker 1: in lawful pursuit and taking of any free ranging, wild, 933 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,919 Speaker 1: big game animal in a manner that does not give 934 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,920 Speaker 1: the hunter, that does not give the hunter an improper, 935 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:20,120 Speaker 1: unfair advantage over the game animals. So that's the Buoner 936 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: cracket official fair chase statement. And so there's a lot 937 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,120 Speaker 1: to break down that, but I think it's it's nice 938 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,719 Speaker 1: to start at where it began, kind of the crisis 939 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:34,080 Speaker 1: in which this this idea, this construct was born from. Right, 940 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,839 Speaker 1: It was born to kind of stop or stem some 941 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,720 Speaker 1: really bad activity and really start wild life and wild places. 942 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,560 Speaker 1: And then over time, you know, post we got into 943 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,799 Speaker 1: in post World War one, a time where the modern 944 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,600 Speaker 1: sport hunter began to rise from. That's that's another important 945 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:56,680 Speaker 1: distinction ben um fair chase. Besides, let me just jump 946 00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,280 Speaker 1: back a second here. So once we established game laws, 947 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 1: what also happened is we were able to define poaching. Okay, 948 00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: this is this is hunting over here, this is something else, 949 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:14,000 Speaker 1: and this is poaching. Before that they were yeah, it 950 00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:24,480 Speaker 1: was yeah so and and for fair chase is the 951 00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:29,640 Speaker 1: thing that that society and trusted sportsmen to recover wildlife with. 952 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,800 Speaker 1: I mean it was it was our permission to speak 953 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: and and it's still to this day we start talking 954 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:43,000 Speaker 1: about modern relevance. It's a social license, um hunters, sportsmen's 955 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:47,440 Speaker 1: sportswomen holding themselves accountable to a higher standard that extends 956 00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:52,080 Speaker 1: beyond the law. That should be pretty bulletproof. And and 957 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,480 Speaker 1: it is if if we're applying it and talking about 958 00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:00,760 Speaker 1: it like we are today. So that that was important, um. 959 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,600 Speaker 1: And then there's this idea of and I just spent 960 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:07,160 Speaker 1: some time in Berkeley, California talking to veg exam or 961 00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,560 Speaker 1: rights folks, and there's this idea of thoughtlessness in the 962 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:14,040 Speaker 1: modern sense about hunters. There's this idea of um lust 963 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:18,640 Speaker 1: being involved, and this idea that common sense isn't at 964 00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:22,600 Speaker 1: the four you know. And so we as hunters, this 965 00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:26,680 Speaker 1: fair chase principle, as imperfect as it may be, at 966 00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 1: least when you explain it to when you would give 967 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,919 Speaker 1: that fair chase statement from the crack it to someone 968 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,560 Speaker 1: who has no who has this idea of hunters as 969 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,800 Speaker 1: barbaric and and this is out there and it's very 970 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,480 Speaker 1: you know it as well as I. Unfortunately it is 971 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,840 Speaker 1: and and like it or not, some of that's our 972 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,680 Speaker 1: own doing. I mean, what what paint? What picture are 973 00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,600 Speaker 1: we painting for folks? Yeah? Big fat part of that 974 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,880 Speaker 1: is if this is self inflicted wounds. Yeah, if I 975 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,960 Speaker 1: had a pie charted out, I never pie charted this out, 976 00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: would be ridiculous. But you know, I would say urbanization, um, 977 00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,200 Speaker 1: Bambi or maybe Walt Disney, who however you want to 978 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:11,360 Speaker 1: blame in that bribe bamby because it's fictional. Um and 979 00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,640 Speaker 1: and hunters ourselves would be the three main culprits of 980 00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,240 Speaker 1: of you know, the decline in hunting. Maybe not the 981 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,800 Speaker 1: decline and hunter numbers as much, but the decline in 982 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,400 Speaker 1: the understanding unders you know, UM and I don't know 983 00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,360 Speaker 1: where I drank those. I think I would put urbanization 984 00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,040 Speaker 1: and and hunters right beside each other and as the 985 00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:34,520 Speaker 1: culprits for this misunderstanding. Well, there's no I mean, you 986 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,480 Speaker 1: guys are in the business. How many people know where 987 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,760 Speaker 1: their food comes from? Yeah, I mean that's that's that's 988 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,320 Speaker 1: a lot that's lost on our society comes from the 989 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,520 Speaker 1: grocery store, and that's like a cultural like so that 990 00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:46,920 Speaker 1: so we're fighting. I think we're we're swimming upstream on 991 00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:51,400 Speaker 1: the culturals, but we're certainly not helping ourselves, like we're 992 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,640 Speaker 1: throwing paddles out of the boat as we're trying to, 993 00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, paddle up stream. Um, we're certainly fighting against 994 00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,000 Speaker 1: the tide of of time. We're not we're not doing 995 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,919 Speaker 1: ourselves any favors well. And I would assume I wasn't 996 00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,560 Speaker 1: there your your Berkeley thing, but I would imagine that 997 00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, you're pretty well versed in this. By the 998 00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,600 Speaker 1: time they were done, they probably went you know, I 999 00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,040 Speaker 1: get that. I didn't think of it that way, and 1000 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 1: you start applying Faret Chase. I'm a firm believer that 1001 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:24,640 Speaker 1: that society at large, even animal rights and anti hunting people, 1002 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,560 Speaker 1: there's something to be learned from fair Chase, for sure. 1003 00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,240 Speaker 1: For sure, you know this is this is not a 1004 00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,760 Speaker 1: free for all, This is not thrilled killing. This is 1005 00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,640 Speaker 1: actually part of a bigger picture. And I hope we 1006 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:41,480 Speaker 1: made that connection. How it was was foundational to conservation, 1007 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,800 Speaker 1: which I like that. I'm glad we got to that. 1008 00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:47,240 Speaker 1: Um I needed to have that right now. And but 1009 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:48,560 Speaker 1: I think, you know, to the point of like the 1010 00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,360 Speaker 1: Berkeley folks, one of the best kind of back and 1011 00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:53,920 Speaker 1: force I had during that time was with Robert C. 1012 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,560 Speaker 1: Jones and we were just simply talking about, you know, 1013 00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,240 Speaker 1: what's the code, and he brought up trophy hunting. Are 1014 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 1: you willing to say that's you know, trophy hunting, which 1015 01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,000 Speaker 1: here's an example traref anything. A guy that cuts the 1016 01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:06,920 Speaker 1: head off a deer and leaves the body, takes the 1017 01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:11,240 Speaker 1: head home. I'm like, listen, that's not that's not that's 1018 01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:17,360 Speaker 1: an asshole and as often illegal that in almost in 1019 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,240 Speaker 1: most cases, that's an illegal act, right. But if it 1020 01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,520 Speaker 1: if it happens to be legal wherever that person is, 1021 01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,040 Speaker 1: that person is an asshole. If if we're talking about 1022 01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,200 Speaker 1: campers and we begin to talk about them by saying, 1023 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, campers, all they do is litter, like they 1024 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,480 Speaker 1: just take garbage bags and dump them into wild places, like, 1025 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,600 Speaker 1: that's not a camper, that's a one an asshole camera, 1026 01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,320 Speaker 1: you know. So my point to him is like, it's 1027 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:45,240 Speaker 1: it's very disingenuous to to do that. And I think 1028 01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:46,840 Speaker 1: I know. The other thing I learned is to just 1029 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:48,880 Speaker 1: ingenuous to do that to other groups. I say, like 1030 01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,040 Speaker 1: factory farming as a monitor is not the way to 1031 01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:56,960 Speaker 1: speak about the big act connection to great anteidote to 1032 01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:01,680 Speaker 1: that here, here's another one, um that's it's factual as well. 1033 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,200 Speaker 1: And we talked about records and trophies. Trophies. Believe it 1034 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,840 Speaker 1: or not, We're an instrumental part of Roosevelt's plan, in 1035 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,720 Speaker 1: the club's plan to enlist sportsmen into the conservation movement. 1036 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,520 Speaker 1: And the best way I can explain that is the 1037 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,880 Speaker 1: club through its scoring system and its records books and 1038 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:27,880 Speaker 1: elevating the notion of trophy got people more interested in 1039 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:33,040 Speaker 1: selective harvest. We talked about fair chase and game laws. 1040 01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:40,840 Speaker 1: When hunting was was allowed again, what do we hunt males, rooster, pheasants, 1041 01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:47,400 Speaker 1: drake Mallard's buck, dear bow elk again, recovery. This was 1042 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:50,040 Speaker 1: all built on sustainable. If you're going to remove an 1043 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:54,600 Speaker 1: animal from the population, the best one that's not going 1044 01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:58,200 Speaker 1: to be missed is a mature animal that's already genetically 1045 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:03,200 Speaker 1: contributed to her health. So this idea of a trophy 1046 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,280 Speaker 1: fit the self restraint deal. It fit the sportsman deal. 1047 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,080 Speaker 1: It's it fit the the the ego part of well, 1048 01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,240 Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm skilled woodsman, I can I can 1049 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:18,240 Speaker 1: outsmart the wisest, and that meant the biggest and the 1050 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:22,560 Speaker 1: best and the oldest and the most mature quote a trophy. Yeah, 1051 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,320 Speaker 1: this is this is one of those ideas where it 1052 01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,840 Speaker 1: looks so different inside hunting than it does outside hunting. 1053 01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,640 Speaker 1: And we have not done a great job. We've not 1054 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,000 Speaker 1: done a great job that with that idea. And you know, 1055 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,240 Speaker 1: like you said, there are some you know, a holes 1056 01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:41,480 Speaker 1: out there that have let trophy define hunting not only 1057 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:46,240 Speaker 1: for them but for all of us. Yeah, it's it's cultural. Yeah, 1058 01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,040 Speaker 1: that means real back in, it's cultural in hunting. I 1059 01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,760 Speaker 1: had a very prominent out our TV personality tell me 1060 01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,320 Speaker 1: some needs a couple of years ago in camp that 1061 01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:59,000 Speaker 1: nobody would watch it unless something big died. And that 1062 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:00,920 Speaker 1: was and this is a person, a leading person in 1063 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,360 Speaker 1: the industry who has kind of defined help to find 1064 01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,480 Speaker 1: some of our culture. And he's like, well, if if 1065 01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,520 Speaker 1: you know, if we don't have a big thing die 1066 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,400 Speaker 1: at the end of the show, then nobody will watch. 1067 01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:13,920 Speaker 1: Like well, I mean, if that's the case, what's that 1068 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:18,000 Speaker 1: say about our culture? Well, that was that was the 1069 01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:23,560 Speaker 1: case before television, when you know, it was hunting DVDs. 1070 01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:28,040 Speaker 1: How many kills can you get on one DVD? Yeah, 1071 01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,840 Speaker 1: that's that's that's what's sold. Not just call out stamp pots. 1072 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,560 Speaker 1: But I used to love watching old stampots. You big deer. Yeah, 1073 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:38,360 Speaker 1: And so that transferred that business model, if you will, 1074 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,440 Speaker 1: how many kills can we get on one DVD? That 1075 01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:46,720 Speaker 1: transferred over to television like right now, and still still 1076 01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:51,160 Speaker 1: it's it's it's softened up some um, but it's still 1077 01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,680 Speaker 1: that's what a lot of guys were tuning in for. 1078 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:59,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that's generational. Maybe maybe it's it's 1079 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,920 Speaker 1: it's it's in some way generation it's turning. I even 1080 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm seeing enough and I'm hearing enough where people are going. 1081 01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,919 Speaker 1: I just can't watch that stuff anymore. And I rarely 1082 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:14,120 Speaker 1: run into anybody that's my age or anywhere near my 1083 01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,480 Speaker 1: age that that wants to talk about it like that. 1084 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,400 Speaker 1: And working for meat eat or not, the not to 1085 01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,120 Speaker 1: toot our own horn or held up Steve or Nell anymore. 1086 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,680 Speaker 1: And he's already been held up. But most people like 1087 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,640 Speaker 1: I love meeting I don't watch any other hunting shows. 1088 01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,360 Speaker 1: I love Meet or that's a refrain, I hear, you know. 1089 01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,320 Speaker 1: I love Shock. He's uncharted, you know, and and the 1090 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,840 Speaker 1: messages and the thing, the way he goes about it, 1091 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:40,360 Speaker 1: and and his his ambassadorship for hunting, and yeah, because 1092 01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,160 Speaker 1: he's tugging at the different there's just this different adventure 1093 01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,200 Speaker 1: ethos that we all kind of have. We know we 1094 01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,880 Speaker 1: have it or not. Um. Yeah. So I think with 1095 01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,200 Speaker 1: any trend, much like the trophy trend in our culture, 1096 01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,640 Speaker 1: there's pushed back to it. And so the modern, the 1097 01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:56,400 Speaker 1: more modern pushback. And I can say I've seen it. 1098 01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,360 Speaker 1: I mean, we did it. I was at Pigeon's Hunting 1099 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,160 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven and we did a meet need 1100 01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,960 Speaker 1: to Recover. I got everybody all hackled up, remember that. 1101 01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,160 Speaker 1: But that that was the idea that that back then, 1102 01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,920 Speaker 1: this was happening. And here we are eight eight some 1103 01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,400 Speaker 1: years later and it's still you know, moving forward. And 1104 01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:15,720 Speaker 1: we when Boonda Crockett was doing we were doing our 1105 01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,760 Speaker 1: television show. I mean there was there was network guidelines. 1106 01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,480 Speaker 1: Don't show any meat being cut up or blood or 1107 01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:26,280 Speaker 1: anything being packed out. I'm going kids the point. Yeah, 1108 01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,120 Speaker 1: what's the point of this. So you know that's obviously 1109 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,880 Speaker 1: loosened up, and you know the the utilization is more prevalent. 1110 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,840 Speaker 1: Now We've always known as the case, but you couldn't 1111 01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,120 Speaker 1: show it on TV. And so when you guys did 1112 01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:40,480 Speaker 1: I work When I was at yet we worked a 1113 01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:42,400 Speaker 1: little bit on the Hunt Fair Chase, which is a 1114 01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,440 Speaker 1: initiative that you guys launched time a couple of years 1115 01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:51,160 Speaker 1: ago now two years, two years and then launching that, 1116 01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:52,680 Speaker 1: we'll get to what kind of what that is. But 1117 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:56,280 Speaker 1: in launching that, I think what was clear is that 1118 01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,439 Speaker 1: at least clear for me and even talking publicly about 1119 01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,480 Speaker 1: it's like what And there's a generational shift at least 1120 01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:04,880 Speaker 1: and my generation I think is probably the first generation 1121 01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,240 Speaker 1: in hunting to have this where I can, I can 1122 01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:12,880 Speaker 1: legitimately say I'm a better public communicator than my dad 1123 01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,760 Speaker 1: because my dad was never a public communicator. And now 1124 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,919 Speaker 1: anybody with a phone is a public communicator. And we're 1125 01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:24,400 Speaker 1: all movie producers or all you know, I mean, we're 1126 01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,600 Speaker 1: in the we're in the communications age. So everybody's got 1127 01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, access to this their own social media stuff. Yeah, 1128 01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,600 Speaker 1: it's it's a c change and how people act is 1129 01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:37,320 Speaker 1: let's think we're all in this world where we're communicating 1130 01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:39,320 Speaker 1: with how many other people we can get a hold 1131 01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:43,560 Speaker 1: of about usually the best parts of our life. And 1132 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,160 Speaker 1: so I just think my genera M thirty three. I 1133 01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:49,320 Speaker 1: think my generation is the first hunting generation. However you'll 1134 01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:50,919 Speaker 1: put me in, I think I'm at the very tail 1135 01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,160 Speaker 1: end of the millennial generation. So I'll take whatever thing 1136 01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,640 Speaker 1: I get for that. But I think that this generation, 1137 01:06:57,720 --> 01:06:59,240 Speaker 1: or this space and time is the kind of the 1138 01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:03,160 Speaker 1: first generation to feel the pressure to understand the values 1139 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:04,920 Speaker 1: that grew up with it and grew up with it, 1140 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,240 Speaker 1: and it's trained in it and whether you wanted, whether 1141 01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,440 Speaker 1: you say trained or not, like you you have to 1142 01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,480 Speaker 1: be if you want to, you know, want to be popular. 1143 01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,200 Speaker 1: When my dad's generation, it was out there, Life in 1144 01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,800 Speaker 1: Field and Stream Magazine. That was it. When I was 1145 01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,080 Speaker 1: growing up, it was those three magazines and maybe every 1146 01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:23,800 Speaker 1: third Sunday American Sportsman. Yeah, and that was it. Yeah. 1147 01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,440 Speaker 1: I mean I grew up on when I first got 1148 01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,440 Speaker 1: in the industry, ESPN had hunting shows and I remember 1149 01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:31,880 Speaker 1: writing a blog on for American Hunter dot org at 1150 01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,240 Speaker 1: the n r A about ESPN kicking out hunting and 1151 01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:37,080 Speaker 1: I remember as a kid, that's what we watched on Sunday. 1152 01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,520 Speaker 1: That's what we watched. I've got I've got Sports Illustrated 1153 01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:44,760 Speaker 1: magazines and our archives that had like our Big Game 1154 01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:48,800 Speaker 1: Awards in it. They talked about that was Sports Illustrated. 1155 01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,640 Speaker 1: We by podcast with Colonel Tom Kelly recently, and he 1156 01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,240 Speaker 1: was talking about writing for Sports Illustrated in the fifties 1157 01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:58,000 Speaker 1: and and it just you know how quickly that all 1158 01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:02,040 Speaker 1: changed for us and how insular we became as a community. 1159 01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,200 Speaker 1: I think based on those I've talked with Randy Newburg 1160 01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:09,680 Speaker 1: about this a couple of different times, where what you 1161 01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:14,360 Speaker 1: read back then romanticized hunting. It was about discovery, it 1162 01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:18,560 Speaker 1: was about exploration, was about camaraderie. It wasn't about tactics 1163 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,720 Speaker 1: and techniques and stuff like that. And so that you know, 1164 01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,040 Speaker 1: those are the manly sports. You know, there was men's 1165 01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:28,280 Speaker 1: magazines back then that that ran hunting and fishing. But 1166 01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:31,040 Speaker 1: don't you think that that I looking at the history 1167 01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,559 Speaker 1: and following the timeline, I feel like that came out 1168 01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,360 Speaker 1: of the both World Wars. People came back from these 1169 01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:41,600 Speaker 1: World Wars looking for not not looking for tactics, to 1170 01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:43,679 Speaker 1: learn how to kill an elk. They came back looking 1171 01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:49,200 Speaker 1: for solitude and connect connectivities, you believe in something to 1172 01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:52,080 Speaker 1: mark your calendar, to look forward to. And so during 1173 01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,920 Speaker 1: those decades, our culture became that because that's what would 1174 01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,600 Speaker 1: get people into hunting. And that's kind of what that 1175 01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:00,000 Speaker 1: conversation was that that's where the Pennsylvania hunting deer hunt 1176 01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:04,040 Speaker 1: in camp emerged from that. You know, we sound like 1177 01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:06,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of old guys, you're talking about history, but 1178 01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,439 Speaker 1: you know, after World War Two that was the greatest 1179 01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:14,040 Speaker 1: influx of sportsman going into the field, the returning g 1180 01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:18,080 Speaker 1: I s. And and about that time is when our 1181 01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,559 Speaker 1: industry kind of kicked off. You know, more and more 1182 01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:26,200 Speaker 1: manufacturers getting in shot show emerged not that long afterward. Um, 1183 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, big trade shows, and you know now if 1184 01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,519 Speaker 1: there's one tree stand, there's twenty, and if there's one 1185 01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,479 Speaker 1: duck call, there's fifty. You know, and that that didn't happen. 1186 01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,439 Speaker 1: You know, there was some companies involved, but not many. 1187 01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:40,840 Speaker 1: Now it's you know, it's a big business. It's a 1188 01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:45,639 Speaker 1: big industry or supporting you know a lot of passionate sportsman. 1189 01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:47,559 Speaker 1: That's funny, it's funny how you say that. I think 1190 01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,960 Speaker 1: now looking back at the old Peterson's hunting in the 1191 01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,880 Speaker 1: seventies or even going back into field stream and out 1192 01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:55,960 Speaker 1: their life. And it wasn't like I said, it wasn't 1193 01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,640 Speaker 1: call companies. It was like skull, it was you know, 1194 01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:00,920 Speaker 1: I was making these up and his you know, it 1195 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:06,760 Speaker 1: was flannel hats and chainsaws. But it started as a 1196 01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:10,000 Speaker 1: very non endemic idea in the market. You know, brill 1197 01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:15,960 Speaker 1: cream and shaving and Lucky Strike cigarettes and you know 1198 01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:19,120 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Manly Man. Yeah, Well, and 1199 01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,080 Speaker 1: it's it's turned on its head now to where it's 1200 01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:24,639 Speaker 1: it's very most of our communications are very instular, very 1201 01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, get better at this thing, which is it's 1202 01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:31,400 Speaker 1: just it's very interesting how we've kind of came through 1203 01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,400 Speaker 1: that time. Um. Then for me, that'd, like you said, 1204 01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:37,200 Speaker 1: talk about history. For me to understand where we are today, 1205 01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:39,720 Speaker 1: you have to kind of understand where we've been, and 1206 01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:43,519 Speaker 1: that I don't know, I don't think negatively about the 1207 01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,200 Speaker 1: late eighties, early nineties and into the early two thousand's, 1208 01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:50,519 Speaker 1: but I think that was the real the real time 1209 01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:56,400 Speaker 1: where that that commoditization trophy hunting idea became. It's stuck 1210 01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:59,880 Speaker 1: a lot of tipping points happen in that time frame. 1211 01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:04,479 Speaker 1: And the good news is I think there's a sea change. 1212 01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:06,760 Speaker 1: We're talking about this now. I mean, can can you 1213 01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:10,000 Speaker 1: imagine a podcast on fair chase ten fifteen years ago? 1214 01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:12,599 Speaker 1: I mean, my dad and my I said this in 1215 01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:14,880 Speaker 1: in another post, but I don't my dad never, I 1216 01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:16,760 Speaker 1: don't think ever said this to me explicitly, but I 1217 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:18,760 Speaker 1: think it part of his generation was let's just not 1218 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,360 Speaker 1: talk about it outside of what we do. If we 1219 01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,800 Speaker 1: just don't talk about hunting outside of just hunters, then 1220 01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,960 Speaker 1: antis won't have anything to attack us for. That was 1221 01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,880 Speaker 1: something that that was a refrain I heard a lot 1222 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,360 Speaker 1: coming into the industry. You know, um, well you start 1223 01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:36,559 Speaker 1: you talk about dads. My dad was. He was a 1224 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,559 Speaker 1: bird hunter. He loved the hunt pheasants and rabbits. That's 1225 01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:43,000 Speaker 1: what we grew up in farm in Ohio. I don't 1226 01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,000 Speaker 1: think he ever knew or heard of the term fair chase, 1227 01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,040 Speaker 1: but to him, there was things. This is how we 1228 01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:52,559 Speaker 1: did things. So he showed me this is how we 1229 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:54,920 Speaker 1: treat the land. This is how we asked the landowner. 1230 01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:57,880 Speaker 1: This is how we You shoot a peasant, you you 1231 01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,640 Speaker 1: look for it, you exhaust everything looking for it. We 1232 01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:05,840 Speaker 1: eat everything we take, we don't waste anything. So he 1233 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,479 Speaker 1: was he was laying down the rules of the road 1234 01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:12,439 Speaker 1: how hunters hunt. He didn't call a para chase. But 1235 01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,280 Speaker 1: it's a code of conduct, it's a code of contact. 1236 01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:19,639 Speaker 1: And I think we talked about Liverpold all the time, 1237 01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:24,000 Speaker 1: although um he that's I mean, his ethic was that way. 1238 01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:25,920 Speaker 1: And I think the way I started when we start 1239 01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,439 Speaker 1: talking about ethics in public and I give talks to 1240 01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:33,439 Speaker 1: whoever wants to talk about it private republic. Even there's 1241 01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,599 Speaker 1: the idea that hunting is very there's no one else watching, 1242 01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:42,160 Speaker 1: like it's very very internal in that way. And um, 1243 01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:45,360 Speaker 1: there's like there's a quote from Always bring this quote up. 1244 01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,360 Speaker 1: It's probably Peter heard this a lot. But a peculiar 1245 01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,120 Speaker 1: value virtue and wild like ethics, is that the hunter 1246 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,240 Speaker 1: has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. 1247 01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,360 Speaker 1: Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience 1248 01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:01,719 Speaker 1: rather than by a mob of onlookers. And it's difficult 1249 01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:05,280 Speaker 1: to exaggerate the importance of this fact. And that's old 1250 01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:11,400 Speaker 1: out and so that's true until social media. Yeah, I 1251 01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:14,320 Speaker 1: was just gonna say that, And that's the way it's 1252 01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,640 Speaker 1: been hunting is you know, primarily done alone. Yeah, you 1253 01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:20,040 Speaker 1: might be in camp with family and friends, but it's 1254 01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,639 Speaker 1: it's it's you out there. You're making you make the call. 1255 01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:26,280 Speaker 1: There's no referees. You you're You're the one that's got 1256 01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:30,360 Speaker 1: to live with your decisions. Um. But yeah, boom, here 1257 01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,160 Speaker 1: comes social media because I think that's you know, hunting 1258 01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:36,400 Speaker 1: used to be I don't want to say contained in 1259 01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:38,800 Speaker 1: a negative way, but it used to be contained to 1260 01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:44,400 Speaker 1: our conventions, our magazines. Um, you know I used to 1261 01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:46,400 Speaker 1: have a photo album and you know, this is what 1262 01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,160 Speaker 1: I got this year, and you take it to a 1263 01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:52,920 Speaker 1: show and you show people, and now you know, our 1264 01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,559 Speaker 1: photo albums are videos. All our stuff is you know, 1265 01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:01,080 Speaker 1: in the airwaves. It's being pumped out. Yeah, that's and 1266 01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:04,559 Speaker 1: that's funny. How you can see, like, like I said, 1267 01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,160 Speaker 1: the late eighties, early nineties kind of the how their 1268 01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:09,720 Speaker 1: culture changed, and then you can then see, like when 1269 01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,599 Speaker 1: social media really became impactful, how our culture has changed, 1270 01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:15,439 Speaker 1: how our films have changed, how our magazines have changed, 1271 01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:19,240 Speaker 1: how our communications have changed. You can erase the medium, podcast, 1272 01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:22,720 Speaker 1: magazines whatever, they are certainly still magazines that kind of 1273 01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:24,960 Speaker 1: still are still doing it the same way they did 1274 01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:27,160 Speaker 1: it fifteen years ago and very successfully. That's you know, 1275 01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:30,000 Speaker 1: that's great, but there's also a lot of new things 1276 01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,519 Speaker 1: that are born of you know, we just had Tyler 1277 01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:35,960 Speaker 1: Sharp from Modern Huntsmen on this podcast. Is probably one 1278 01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:37,439 Speaker 1: of the things you could put in that bucket. But 1279 01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:41,000 Speaker 1: there's there's just a a different way to think about 1280 01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:43,880 Speaker 1: it now that that we have this social media way 1281 01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:47,599 Speaker 1: to communicate. As much as we want to blame social 1282 01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:51,200 Speaker 1: media for some of the jackpot we found ourselves in, 1283 01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,519 Speaker 1: I'm I'm coming a little more philosophical about it and said, 1284 01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,840 Speaker 1: social media is really what got a lot of us 1285 01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:03,960 Speaker 1: paying attention. And now there's twelve million people that can 1286 01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:07,200 Speaker 1: influence someone else about hunting. And I I had a lot 1287 01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:08,960 Speaker 1: of people that are realized. Some people aren't, but a 1288 01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,280 Speaker 1: lot of people are realizing that's pretty important. That's an 1289 01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:14,920 Speaker 1: important thing. So I think, you know, you mentioned the 1290 01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:20,240 Speaker 1: hunt Right campaign that was purely driven to point out 1291 01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,400 Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, our image is tarnished and 1292 01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,559 Speaker 1: we've got to be better ambassadors for our sport and 1293 01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:31,160 Speaker 1: and fair Chase is a great rallying point for that, 1294 01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:34,840 Speaker 1: and and people sucked that up. There there was you know, 1295 01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:38,519 Speaker 1: not everybody there's you know, hunt, how you want to hunt, 1296 01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:41,479 Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff movement. But for the 1297 01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,120 Speaker 1: for the most part, the timing was right for that, 1298 01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,559 Speaker 1: and it was extremely well received. We were we were 1299 01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:51,000 Speaker 1: pleased with the response that we got, and it spawned, 1300 01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:55,519 Speaker 1: you know, you talk about Tyler and modern huntsman. He 1301 01:15:55,560 --> 01:16:00,599 Speaker 1: approached me and Simon Roosevelt to contribute to his latest 1302 01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:03,400 Speaker 1: issue and talk about ethics and fair chase, and so 1303 01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:07,960 Speaker 1: we submitted some articles. I can count on one hand, 1304 01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:12,040 Speaker 1: ten years ago anybody even say, hey, come one, come 1305 01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,160 Speaker 1: on and talk, Come on and talk about this, or 1306 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,680 Speaker 1: give us some history or some perspective, or you know, 1307 01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,519 Speaker 1: just just have a dialogue about this, you know. And 1308 01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:24,519 Speaker 1: it wasn't it was taboo or anything. It just wasn't 1309 01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:26,839 Speaker 1: on anybody's right there. It wasn't center point in the culture, 1310 01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:30,479 Speaker 1: you know. And I think I feel I often, you know, 1311 01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:33,200 Speaker 1: people listen to this year for hours a week. I 1312 01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:35,120 Speaker 1: often I don't want to beat people over the head 1313 01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,719 Speaker 1: with these heavy ideas. I don't want to make everything 1314 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,160 Speaker 1: some larger than it has to be decision. I don't 1315 01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,439 Speaker 1: Hunting should be fun, it should be enjoyable. That's if 1316 01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:46,120 Speaker 1: it wasn't that we wouldn't do it. If it was 1317 01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:50,880 Speaker 1: some robotic, you know, very fraught decision making process that 1318 01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:54,280 Speaker 1: wasn't fun less, people certainly would do it and we 1319 01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,719 Speaker 1: would be passionate about it. But at the same time, 1320 01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:02,479 Speaker 1: connecting like these ideas of you do need to be thoughtful, 1321 01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:04,280 Speaker 1: you do need to understand there's a code of conduct, 1322 01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:06,360 Speaker 1: and this is this is not just a modern thing. 1323 01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:10,519 Speaker 1: It's going on for thirty years and we're still solving 1324 01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:14,320 Speaker 1: those same problems, sustainability being being the main thing there. Well, 1325 01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:18,040 Speaker 1: I mean there's there's a societal code and you know everything. 1326 01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:20,640 Speaker 1: I was talking about this the other day. I mean you, 1327 01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:24,439 Speaker 1: I mean, it's simple things that you're growing up with. 1328 01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:27,000 Speaker 1: You know, respect women, hold the door open, form, put 1329 01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:30,040 Speaker 1: the toilet seat down if you if you borrow something, 1330 01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,759 Speaker 1: return it in good condition as if it was your own. Respect, 1331 01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:38,240 Speaker 1: the flag under our service men and women. Fair Chase 1332 01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:43,240 Speaker 1: is right in there with those same type of principles. Yeah, 1333 01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:48,160 Speaker 1: I think, well, yeah, I think one, well, I think 1334 01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,719 Speaker 1: we've made that, we made that point. I think to 1335 01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,680 Speaker 1: shift and when when I've talked on this podcast and 1336 01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,559 Speaker 1: then you know, publicly about an idea of like Okay, Now, 1337 01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,800 Speaker 1: fair Chase. We agree it's a valuable We agree it 1338 01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:05,200 Speaker 1: has this modicum of success within our culture for over 1339 01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:10,200 Speaker 1: a century. What in the future, how two things, One, 1340 01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:12,880 Speaker 1: how can it be adapted? And to how can it 1341 01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,680 Speaker 1: How can fair Chase adapt to defend against some of 1342 01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:19,000 Speaker 1: the modern mindsets of what hunting is or what hunting 1343 01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,439 Speaker 1: has become. So there's the questions that I always ask 1344 01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:24,200 Speaker 1: myself and when I come to fair Chase, I asked 1345 01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:27,040 Speaker 1: myself and I think a lot of people in society 1346 01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:30,200 Speaker 1: because I think society is just asking us a simple question. 1347 01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,000 Speaker 1: They're asking us, is hunting good for all of us? 1348 01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:38,040 Speaker 1: Because we we all most I would say, of people 1349 01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:43,519 Speaker 1: value animals. They value their being there, they value seeing them, 1350 01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:47,759 Speaker 1: they value interacting with them, they value their presence. Unlike 1351 01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:52,639 Speaker 1: other continents that don't have that same shared value system, 1352 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:56,479 Speaker 1: we generally do. So we have that. So now, what 1353 01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:58,240 Speaker 1: can how can fare Chase kind of prop up that 1354 01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:02,080 Speaker 1: idea going forward because it's I feel like it's gonna 1355 01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:04,679 Speaker 1: have to adapt in a lot of ways. Well, that's 1356 01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:08,559 Speaker 1: a good question, ben I. I mean, we already talked 1357 01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:12,400 Speaker 1: about fair Chase being that adding more legitimacy to hunting, 1358 01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,880 Speaker 1: it's that social license. But I think the conversation that 1359 01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:18,559 Speaker 1: needs to take place even ahead of that is that 1360 01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:23,720 Speaker 1: idea that hunting is conservation. To steal a quote from 1361 01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:28,120 Speaker 1: our friends over at ELK, it is an irreplaceable mechanism 1362 01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:32,600 Speaker 1: for conservation. It's it's it's part of conservation is the 1363 01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:38,720 Speaker 1: longest continual, continuous movement in American history, and hunting has 1364 01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:45,000 Speaker 1: been shoulder to shoulder with that since day one. We 1365 01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:48,360 Speaker 1: need to be able to communicate that in itself more 1366 01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:53,240 Speaker 1: and then with that, Okay, by the way it is 1367 01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,840 Speaker 1: does have purpose. It is being conducted ethically. There is 1368 01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:02,400 Speaker 1: respect given to the game, the meat, the animals are utilized. 1369 01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:08,200 Speaker 1: That just kind of sells it even further. I don't 1370 01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:13,920 Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily convinced that the fair chase being the 1371 01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:19,840 Speaker 1: tip of the spear. People need to understand ecological realities. 1372 01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:25,120 Speaker 1: And then we're hunting's role does fit. Part of that is, 1373 01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, you we talked about trophy hunting and that 1374 01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:32,240 Speaker 1: negative stereotype. Yeah, we've got to get away from the 1375 01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:36,880 Speaker 1: snap headline judgment that hunters or blood sport thugs with 1376 01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:40,400 Speaker 1: you know, no moral code and and they're just thrill 1377 01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:44,920 Speaker 1: killing fair Chase can certainly be part of that conversation, 1378 01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:49,400 Speaker 1: but you know, we we've got it. I think too 1379 01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:55,080 Speaker 1: many people that don't understand the history of conservation, um 1380 01:20:55,280 --> 01:21:00,639 Speaker 1: they're confused between preservation and conservation. Yeah, you so much 1381 01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:03,479 Speaker 1: in that I man so, and there's so much to unpack. 1382 01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,960 Speaker 1: One of the things I think to unpack within within 1383 01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:13,080 Speaker 1: that conversation is as time goes on and there's less hunters, 1384 01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:15,840 Speaker 1: Let's say we stabilize at twelve million and we stay there. 1385 01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:17,840 Speaker 1: I don't I can't see a time where we're like, oh, 1386 01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,720 Speaker 1: there's twenty million. We just grew eight million. I don't know, 1387 01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:22,040 Speaker 1: just because of that urbanization and kind of the change 1388 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,040 Speaker 1: in our culture. I just don't know the future. But 1389 01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:27,200 Speaker 1: I would be skeptical if someone argued to me that 1390 01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:29,760 Speaker 1: they thought they could double hunting in the next fifty years, 1391 01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:33,640 Speaker 1: I would say, boy, I'm not seeing that. Certainly the 1392 01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:35,960 Speaker 1: current data doesn't back that up. You'd have to really 1393 01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:38,360 Speaker 1: come at me hard with that one. So, in that 1394 01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:40,080 Speaker 1: world where we know it's kind of has to it's 1395 01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:44,479 Speaker 1: going to either stabilize or continue to decline, how do 1396 01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:49,519 Speaker 1: we present the North American model of wildlife conservation and 1397 01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:52,719 Speaker 1: the North American mile of how we pay for ship 1398 01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:55,760 Speaker 1: I wish I could. That'd be a good that might 1399 01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,080 Speaker 1: get people thinking about it. Um, how do we present 1400 01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:00,280 Speaker 1: that as like a foundational thing that has laugh pasted 1401 01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,160 Speaker 1: for all this time, hundreds of a hundred years at 1402 01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:05,639 Speaker 1: this point almost how do we present that is? It's 1403 01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:08,559 Speaker 1: it's valuable, right, it's the basis of what we do. 1404 01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,680 Speaker 1: It certainly needs to be taken, that model taken and 1405 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:16,080 Speaker 1: adapted in other ways in wildlife management and out there recreation. 1406 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:18,719 Speaker 1: We should be able to take this really successful model 1407 01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,080 Speaker 1: and plopping into outdoor recreation. Be like, we need you 1408 01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:23,439 Speaker 1: to come to the table here, we need you to 1409 01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:26,880 Speaker 1: be doing similar things to this. UM. I think that 1410 01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:29,360 Speaker 1: has to happen, But that makes our stake in the 1411 01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:31,240 Speaker 1: game less because we would have to bring in more 1412 01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:33,240 Speaker 1: people to pay for more things. So I think that's 1413 01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,080 Speaker 1: in the future. I think that has to happen, whether 1414 01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:38,960 Speaker 1: it's a backpack tax or something like that, it's got 1415 01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:43,559 Speaker 1: to happen, but it's gonna change that the dynamic. I've 1416 01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:48,000 Speaker 1: heard that argument. I'm kind of still not completely sold 1417 01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,240 Speaker 1: on that. That's what I've heard. You know, let's leart texting, 1418 01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, boat paddles and backpacks and mountain bikes and oh, 1419 01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:56,519 Speaker 1: we can't do that because all of a sudden, there's 1420 01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,720 Speaker 1: other other stakeholders in the game and they're going to 1421 01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:01,360 Speaker 1: delude our say, and I think one of our biggest 1422 01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:06,840 Speaker 1: problems in general is we've isolated ourselves. You know, there 1423 01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:10,120 Speaker 1: is conservation weren't going on outside of hunting and fishing, 1424 01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:16,920 Speaker 1: and there are groups that are open minded that that 1425 01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:22,640 Speaker 1: have a better understanding and quite possibly have an understanding 1426 01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:25,080 Speaker 1: of the history of conservation and know that hunting is 1427 01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:28,639 Speaker 1: not this you know, this big negative thing out there. 1428 01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:34,800 Speaker 1: Um So I think if we move to a point 1429 01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:37,599 Speaker 1: where we're not so us against them or there has 1430 01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:41,360 Speaker 1: to be an enemy and and and reach across the aisle, 1431 01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:47,559 Speaker 1: the use of political cliche and in you know, start 1432 01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:51,640 Speaker 1: working with some of these other groups. I mean, they's 1433 01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:55,040 Speaker 1: that's happening. That's that's one I think that that's that 1434 01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:58,360 Speaker 1: is happening. I think it's important for it to continue. 1435 01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,120 Speaker 1: Another thing we talked about the North American model and 1436 01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:07,200 Speaker 1: the not you know, non commercial use. I I think 1437 01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:12,280 Speaker 1: if if Wild Game Meet was a more available in restaurants, 1438 01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,840 Speaker 1: people would go yeah, I mean we've how how funny 1439 01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:20,720 Speaker 1: we're kind of touching into your guys this world here 1440 01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,519 Speaker 1: a little bit. But how funny is it that you know, 1441 01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:27,519 Speaker 1: captain captive servant. I often get texts from people and 1442 01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:30,120 Speaker 1: people often I work for meat either now people often 1443 01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,800 Speaker 1: want to take me out to a restaurant where they 1444 01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,840 Speaker 1: serve venison. Often. I mean this is somebody I meet 1445 01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:38,840 Speaker 1: somebody new and they're like, hey, yeah, this restaurant they 1446 01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:42,880 Speaker 1: got he's wild games, so he's gonna love it. Like, yeah, 1447 01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:46,320 Speaker 1: that's great, but that's a captain servant bro. Like that 1448 01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,400 Speaker 1: that is exactly the thing that I'm not into. And 1449 01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:52,120 Speaker 1: so we've created this world where we have this abundant 1450 01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:55,080 Speaker 1: resource of wild game, and do we want to bring 1451 01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:57,120 Speaker 1: back some sort of market for it. That's a very 1452 01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:02,479 Speaker 1: complicated concept, but we've all so created by creating this 1453 01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:06,799 Speaker 1: idea of ideology around like eating wild things, we've created 1454 01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:12,120 Speaker 1: this captive We've we've then forced our society too, like 1455 01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:14,200 Speaker 1: if you get approval to push it behind a fence 1456 01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:16,360 Speaker 1: to feed to people as a facimilar for the thing 1457 01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:20,960 Speaker 1: that we're I just when I'm eating, like you know, 1458 01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:22,840 Speaker 1: somebody says, here's your venison steak and I'm at a 1459 01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:24,840 Speaker 1: restaurant and other people like, wow, you know, they'll tell 1460 01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:26,760 Speaker 1: their friends, I went out last night and had the 1461 01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,800 Speaker 1: best uh rabbit stew I've ever had, or I've had 1462 01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:31,800 Speaker 1: the best, you know, deer steak I've ever I'm like, 1463 01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:34,280 Speaker 1: you understand that's probably from New Zealand. It's probably a 1464 01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:37,040 Speaker 1: red deer. I've been to those places. I've seen what 1465 01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:39,280 Speaker 1: they do to those animals. It's it's akin to cattle. 1466 01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:43,920 Speaker 1: And so if hunting is gonna promote this urban idea 1467 01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:49,720 Speaker 1: of eating particularly venison, it's almost it's like it's so 1468 01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:53,000 Speaker 1: counterinto it and counterproductive to to to what we're promoting 1469 01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:55,960 Speaker 1: that I find it like, I'm not sure what to 1470 01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,240 Speaker 1: do with it. I'm'm sure to be like, people don't 1471 01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:01,559 Speaker 1: come to this restaurant because these are these are deer 1472 01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:06,000 Speaker 1: of whatever kind, you know. And there's been many times 1473 01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:08,559 Speaker 1: where i'b eating an elk steak at a restaurant and thought, 1474 01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:10,920 Speaker 1: this is not an elk. There's no elk I've seen. 1475 01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:13,400 Speaker 1: It's this size, unless it was a unless it was 1476 01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:15,479 Speaker 1: a two year old or a fawn. This is probably 1477 01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:19,400 Speaker 1: a red deer. And you know, so that's a whole. 1478 01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:23,120 Speaker 1: Another is a can of worms. But I mean we're 1479 01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:28,280 Speaker 1: still seeing you know, wildcott samon as opposed to farm raised. 1480 01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:32,760 Speaker 1: I mean there's there's still some hope. Yeah, we can 1481 01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:38,479 Speaker 1: draw that connection to wild, organic, hormone free, et cetera. 1482 01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:42,400 Speaker 1: All those things all want to close out by there's 1483 01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:46,680 Speaker 1: a I said this in a recent conversation um that 1484 01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:51,000 Speaker 1: was sponsored by b h A, and there was so 1485 01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:52,720 Speaker 1: I think there was a general from Boding Cracket in 1486 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,160 Speaker 1: the audience, and so I thought, he's gonna yell me 1487 01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:57,880 Speaker 1: down for saying what I'm about to say. And I 1488 01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:00,439 Speaker 1: say it knowing that it's against a lot of a 1489 01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:03,080 Speaker 1: lot of what we normally think. But here's what I've 1490 01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:05,439 Speaker 1: been thinking of lately. I'll be interested in what you 1491 01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:07,600 Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever talked about this, So the 1492 01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:09,519 Speaker 1: idea of fair chase. You know, I asked the question 1493 01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,880 Speaker 1: of fair to what right? Fair to me or fair 1494 01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:14,439 Speaker 1: to the animal. I think a lot of these people 1495 01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:17,040 Speaker 1: that don't understand hunting or think it's oxymarnic and its 1496 01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:23,000 Speaker 1: nature are wondering, you know what fair chase is really denoting? 1497 01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:26,160 Speaker 1: Is it denoting what we talked about, like a code 1498 01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:30,160 Speaker 1: of conduct among hunters or is it is it more 1499 01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:33,040 Speaker 1: about the interaction between the animal and the hunter or 1500 01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:35,519 Speaker 1: the animal and the human. Is it doing both those 1501 01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:37,840 Speaker 1: things at the same time, or is it constructed to 1502 01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:42,040 Speaker 1: just manage the human activity and in a relationship of 1503 01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:45,320 Speaker 1: how we standardize each other. So so what so I 1504 01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:48,479 Speaker 1: asked that question like is it is it animal human 1505 01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:51,719 Speaker 1: or is it human to human? And what's that really means? 1506 01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:55,000 Speaker 1: So from that, I think, Okay, if we were to say, like, 1507 01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,960 Speaker 1: what what could fair chase be next? What's the next 1508 01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,760 Speaker 1: thing it could help us with? And I think what 1509 01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:04,280 Speaker 1: it could help us with is our interaction with animals 1510 01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:10,240 Speaker 1: specifically and the oxymoronic nature of It's not fair chase 1511 01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:13,600 Speaker 1: to shoot a deer in hip deep snow where it 1512 01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:17,080 Speaker 1: can't move, But it may be more ethical and more 1513 01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:20,920 Speaker 1: efficient if you're just talking efficacy, only to shoot that 1514 01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:24,240 Speaker 1: deer when it can't move right, So it may seem 1515 01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:26,360 Speaker 1: unfair to us, but if you would ask the deer, 1516 01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:28,479 Speaker 1: it'd be like, I don't you know, I don't want 1517 01:28:28,520 --> 01:28:30,439 Speaker 1: you to kill me, probably, but I don't want to 1518 01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:33,240 Speaker 1: suffer either. So if you think it's unfair, but it's 1519 01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:36,120 Speaker 1: gonna kill me quicker and much rather you have that. 1520 01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:40,479 Speaker 1: So I would just say the question I pose is, like, 1521 01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:44,400 Speaker 1: is is fair chase the future fair chase? Does it 1522 01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:49,800 Speaker 1: shift only too regulate the action prior to the killing, right, 1523 01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:52,720 Speaker 1: only regulate our hunting and not our killing, Like how 1524 01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:55,880 Speaker 1: the act of hunting, how whether we shoot from cars, 1525 01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:59,080 Speaker 1: whether we hunt from cars, where we go hunting, how 1526 01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:01,160 Speaker 1: we hunt, But at the moment ament of killing the animal, 1527 01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:04,519 Speaker 1: we choose the most efficient way that we can. We 1528 01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:08,400 Speaker 1: can surmise based on the situation. There's again a lot 1529 01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:11,160 Speaker 1: of unpacking that, but that's what I've been thinking of, Like, 1530 01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:14,479 Speaker 1: is that the next step of fair chase? Does that 1531 01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:17,719 Speaker 1: solve some of the conundrums that come from animal versus 1532 01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:23,080 Speaker 1: human and those conducts that we And you're gonna leave 1533 01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,800 Speaker 1: me with that, But that's I'm not gonna leave you 1534 01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:28,679 Speaker 1: with a lot. We'll talk it through. I mean, well, 1535 01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:33,640 Speaker 1: let me start by because we obviously we spent a 1536 01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:36,480 Speaker 1: lot of time thinking about this and have a historical context. 1537 01:29:38,240 --> 01:29:40,559 Speaker 1: The best way I can start to answer that question, 1538 01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:41,600 Speaker 1: and I don't know if I can get all the 1539 01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:45,960 Speaker 1: way through it is fair in our English language has 1540 01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:54,439 Speaker 1: many many meetings, fair ball, fair play fair skin and fair. 1541 01:29:54,880 --> 01:30:03,040 Speaker 1: Just taking it face value implies fair equal. The fair 1542 01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:07,560 Speaker 1: and fair chase is actually derived from the alternative definition 1543 01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:11,680 Speaker 1: of fair, which means genuine, legitimate, appropriate in the circumstance. 1544 01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:15,639 Speaker 1: So if you if you look at fair Chase from 1545 01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:21,120 Speaker 1: that standpoint, hunting is not fair, this is not equal. 1546 01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:25,719 Speaker 1: We have technology, we've got a reasoning and thinking brain, 1547 01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:32,719 Speaker 1: they've got their senses and survivability. There's there's some level 1548 01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:35,240 Speaker 1: playing fields, there's other level of playing fields. So if 1549 01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:37,559 Speaker 1: you if you pull back and say, well, fair Chase 1550 01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:47,120 Speaker 1: is about a genuine appropriate approach um, that might help 1551 01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:50,040 Speaker 1: answer part of that question. I think that definitely does. 1552 01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:52,439 Speaker 1: I think that definitely because, like I said, I think 1553 01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:56,160 Speaker 1: we maybe it helps me if we just like start 1554 01:30:56,200 --> 01:31:02,080 Speaker 1: removing some of the actual end game conducts regulations if 1555 01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:05,080 Speaker 1: it were within fair Chase to say, well, don't kill 1556 01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:08,760 Speaker 1: it this way because that's not fair. Like, let's remove that. 1557 01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,360 Speaker 1: And that's that's that You're you're gonna run around a 1558 01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,080 Speaker 1: circle in and back of the city, and that's where 1559 01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:16,080 Speaker 1: a personal situational ethics should come in, right, like I 1560 01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:19,880 Speaker 1: think fair Chase could has has and again I'm thinking 1561 01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,080 Speaker 1: through that we're all thinking through it because there's no 1562 01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:25,439 Speaker 1: answer to it. But like fair chase has its between 1563 01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:28,040 Speaker 1: you and I, fair chase works between me and the animal. 1564 01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:30,639 Speaker 1: Fair chase doesn't work to me. Like there's that's where 1565 01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:33,360 Speaker 1: my situational and personal ethics come in. And then so 1566 01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:35,680 Speaker 1: so I guess, well, maybe we could get to and 1567 01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:37,800 Speaker 1: it would feel good. Was is how do your how 1568 01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:40,880 Speaker 1: does fair chase and personal situational all kind of mix 1569 01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:44,040 Speaker 1: up in the gumbo? Think about it this way, been 1570 01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:50,200 Speaker 1: there's also fair to yourself, and you know, I look 1571 01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:56,240 Speaker 1: at an honest effort. Um, My most memorable hunts have 1572 01:31:56,360 --> 01:32:01,120 Speaker 1: been you know, cow funds. Sometimes I was successful, times 1573 01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:07,120 Speaker 1: sometimes I wasn't. But and you know, choosing to pass, 1574 01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:10,960 Speaker 1: you know, or that's you know, I don't feel comfortable 1575 01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:15,160 Speaker 1: with that shot. That's a risky shot. And I've wounded 1576 01:32:15,160 --> 01:32:18,880 Speaker 1: an animal before, I've lost him before, I've you know, 1577 01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:21,240 Speaker 1: had the sleepless night and trying to pick up a 1578 01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:25,920 Speaker 1: blood trail the next day over a poor decision. I 1579 01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:30,040 Speaker 1: don't want to relive that again. I think most sportsmen 1580 01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:35,320 Speaker 1: have that core little called a little bird inside or 1581 01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:39,320 Speaker 1: whatever that says, you know, always every hunter I've ever 1582 01:32:39,360 --> 01:32:42,680 Speaker 1: met has that. Yeah, And so I start looking at 1583 01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:46,240 Speaker 1: a fair to myself and and saying, well, this this 1584 01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:48,240 Speaker 1: is how I suit up. This is how I'm going 1585 01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:56,280 Speaker 1: to approach it, and and I'm going to use this ethos, 1586 01:32:56,439 --> 01:33:01,719 Speaker 1: this code to help guide my decisions. Uh in the field, 1587 01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:06,280 Speaker 1: is it is it? Are you applying a level of 1588 01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:10,680 Speaker 1: fairness to the animal? Some people look at it that way. 1589 01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:13,519 Speaker 1: I think it has more to do with me personally. 1590 01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:17,040 Speaker 1: I I don't want to relive a bad experience. I 1591 01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:19,160 Speaker 1: don't want to see an animal suffer because of a 1592 01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,360 Speaker 1: poor choice I made. I want to come away with 1593 01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:26,320 Speaker 1: a memorable experience when loser draw. I don't want to cheat. 1594 01:33:26,439 --> 01:33:29,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to have things uh you know, canned 1595 01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:33,800 Speaker 1: or stage. I want a genuine experience. So that's how 1596 01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:38,240 Speaker 1: I start internalizing fair and making it personal to me. 1597 01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:40,840 Speaker 1: That's a great way to put it. And then then 1598 01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:42,960 Speaker 1: I get that's where I get to it was like 1599 01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:46,200 Speaker 1: that articulation, It is great. I think you're just just 1600 01:33:46,320 --> 01:33:48,240 Speaker 1: like it's about I hope you're recording that because I 1601 01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:51,880 Speaker 1: don't remember what I say. What do I say? It's 1602 01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:55,479 Speaker 1: like that Will Ferrell than racist? I blocked out. I 1603 01:33:55,600 --> 01:34:00,200 Speaker 1: blocked out. Um but yeah, II recording all this, um, 1604 01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:04,920 Speaker 1: that's where that's where I stay with that idea all 1605 01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:07,080 Speaker 1: the way to the moment that I'm in front of 1606 01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:11,080 Speaker 1: that animal. I've got myself to a place where I 1607 01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:13,280 Speaker 1: have a code of conduct that I feel it's fair 1608 01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:15,800 Speaker 1: to everybody, right, and I'm following that to a t. 1609 01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:20,120 Speaker 1: And then when I get to that animal, my my 1610 01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:22,679 Speaker 1: real most recent feeling is that it should then shift 1611 01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:25,639 Speaker 1: to the animals importance at the time where I've made 1612 01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:29,599 Speaker 1: the decision that it's time to do the killing. You know, now, 1613 01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:32,960 Speaker 1: I've selected the animal based on my ethical and the 1614 01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,880 Speaker 1: constructs of the law, bless my own ethical ideas of 1615 01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:39,880 Speaker 1: what animals should be harvested or killed. Selected from the group. 1616 01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:43,240 Speaker 1: I've done that work. I've done all the adventure work 1617 01:34:43,280 --> 01:34:45,839 Speaker 1: to get to where that animal lives. I've studied its habits, 1618 01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:48,240 Speaker 1: I've done I've done all the work in the way 1619 01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:53,320 Speaker 1: that I feel is proper. You earned it, Yeah, you 1620 01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:56,200 Speaker 1: earned it? Right? Is it that feeling of you sit 1621 01:34:56,280 --> 01:34:58,519 Speaker 1: down beside that dead animal, You're like, oh, this was 1622 01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:02,320 Speaker 1: this feels right? Yeah? There's no way We've tried to 1623 01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:04,519 Speaker 1: articulate it by saying purity score, but people get that 1624 01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:06,680 Speaker 1: all twisted up. So we don't do that anymore. But 1625 01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:09,479 Speaker 1: it's like when you know it, you sit down inside 1626 01:35:09,479 --> 01:35:12,160 Speaker 1: that animal, you know it like there's it's it's infallible. 1627 01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:14,960 Speaker 1: It either is right or it wasn't right. And so 1628 01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:18,280 Speaker 1: for me, I've started to think of I don't I 1629 01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:20,200 Speaker 1: don't necessarily to this what I'm hunting it, but make 1630 01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:24,320 Speaker 1: hunting way way boring and heavier than I want it 1631 01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:26,439 Speaker 1: to be. But at the time I get to the 1632 01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:29,400 Speaker 1: point where I'm gonna kill that that animal is close 1633 01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:31,960 Speaker 1: either close enough where I know I can get close enough. 1634 01:35:32,280 --> 01:35:36,559 Speaker 1: Then I start to think about just how cleanly can 1635 01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:38,800 Speaker 1: this go down? You know? So now I've done all 1636 01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:41,120 Speaker 1: the personal work to get myself to the situation where 1637 01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:43,720 Speaker 1: where I have an opportunity kill an animal. Now it's 1638 01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:46,600 Speaker 1: about the animal. It's not about me anymore. It's not 1639 01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:50,479 Speaker 1: about any ego, it's not It's just about dispatching this 1640 01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:53,960 Speaker 1: thing is as cleanly as possible, because that will help 1641 01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:59,120 Speaker 1: fulfill the first part, which was those personal fair chase ethics, 1642 01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:01,640 Speaker 1: that that tract you made with yourself. I made a 1643 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:03,559 Speaker 1: contract with myself. What would be a failure of that 1644 01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:07,240 Speaker 1: contract if if then there's a big bucket eighty yards, 1645 01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:09,080 Speaker 1: it's a failure of the contract. If I'm like, he's 1646 01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:11,439 Speaker 1: eighty yards, I'll never get another shot. Let me just 1647 01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:14,400 Speaker 1: whack an arrow out there, knowing that I've got a 1648 01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:17,799 Speaker 1: chance of killing it. If I get forty yards closer, 1649 01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:21,400 Speaker 1: I've got into killing it, you know. And so that's 1650 01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:22,960 Speaker 1: how I started to look at it. Now, how fair 1651 01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:26,960 Speaker 1: chase fits into that, Still working on it, but you know, 1652 01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:29,360 Speaker 1: I think it does. I mean, you you just said it. 1653 01:36:29,439 --> 01:36:35,880 Speaker 1: You're you're weighing the margin of error, and that's you know, 1654 01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:39,240 Speaker 1: if it's a guiding principle, that's that's part of it. 1655 01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:42,599 Speaker 1: You know, you you, like you said, you've done all 1656 01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:46,480 Speaker 1: the adventure and preparation to get to that point. Um, 1657 01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:48,960 Speaker 1: that's part of fair chase. That's that's driving you to 1658 01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,920 Speaker 1: do that. You know, you got out and you shot 1659 01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:53,920 Speaker 1: your bow every night. You got you know, all your 1660 01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:57,920 Speaker 1: equipment tuned, and you knew where your maximum effective range 1661 01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:01,360 Speaker 1: was going to be, and that's all part of the equation. 1662 01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:03,960 Speaker 1: And then you're there by yourself, or was just one 1663 01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:06,439 Speaker 1: buddy or a person you have to make this call 1664 01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:09,840 Speaker 1: about ending the life of something, and that's sucking. You know, 1665 01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:12,080 Speaker 1: like that's a that's a big deal and it should 1666 01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:13,799 Speaker 1: be a big deal. So I think, you know, rewind 1667 01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:16,639 Speaker 1: all that backs. It's like what is fair chase? To me, 1668 01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,840 Speaker 1: it's like the the what it's gonna mean in the future, 1669 01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:23,040 Speaker 1: I think is just just it'll just become as it 1670 01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:28,519 Speaker 1: all as what it already is. An articulation two both 1671 01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:32,000 Speaker 1: inside our community but also without outside of our community, 1672 01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:34,200 Speaker 1: of all this stuff we're talking about, of this whole 1673 01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:39,639 Speaker 1: dance of look at it this way. Say you chose 1674 01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:41,519 Speaker 1: not to take that shot, and you came back to 1675 01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:44,920 Speaker 1: camp and you know, replayed that that encounter for your 1676 01:37:44,960 --> 01:37:48,400 Speaker 1: buddies back at camp. Would you feel good about that 1677 01:37:48,479 --> 01:37:51,280 Speaker 1: decision and telling that story going you know, hey, I 1678 01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:53,280 Speaker 1: got close, it was a buck. I was after it 1679 01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:56,240 Speaker 1: just wasn't right, and I just I said no, I 1680 01:37:56,360 --> 01:38:02,240 Speaker 1: let him walk. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's fulfilling. Yeah, here's 1681 01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:04,680 Speaker 1: the story. Like somebody people probably beat me up for this, 1682 01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:06,519 Speaker 1: but this is something I think a lot of people 1683 01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:08,360 Speaker 1: have you ever been through? I can understand. I was 1684 01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:13,040 Speaker 1: this is probably eleven years ago and I was this 1685 01:38:13,160 --> 01:38:16,559 Speaker 1: is my second baited bear hunt, and I was in Quebec, 1686 01:38:17,439 --> 01:38:19,760 Speaker 1: at a place with my my dad. It's a matter 1687 01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:23,280 Speaker 1: of fact, and I I had seen very few black 1688 01:38:23,320 --> 01:38:26,679 Speaker 1: bears in my life. And black bears are historically possible 1689 01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:28,400 Speaker 1: to judge, hard to judge in a lot of ways. 1690 01:38:28,400 --> 01:38:30,000 Speaker 1: So when you go on a baited hunt, they'll say, 1691 01:38:30,200 --> 01:38:32,759 Speaker 1: if it's big as the barrel, go for it, and 1692 01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:34,280 Speaker 1: and cool back to this place where we were in. 1693 01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:37,439 Speaker 1: Coolback is there's not there's you know, a two pound 1694 01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:41,160 Speaker 1: bears is a big bear, unlike a lot of places. 1695 01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:46,400 Speaker 1: And so I'm sitting in the box blind like mosquitoes, 1696 01:38:46,600 --> 01:38:50,639 Speaker 1: and this bear comes in, grabs, grabs a piece of meat, 1697 01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:53,519 Speaker 1: rotten meat, runs off. I'm like, hmm, I think that 1698 01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:55,240 Speaker 1: was big and that bear is big enough he comes back, 1699 01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:57,479 Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill him. It was like like a flash 1700 01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:00,200 Speaker 1: decision to think that. So like, if he does that again, 1701 01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:02,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to get a quick shot off. Well, 1702 01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:04,360 Speaker 1: there's bear comes back and he gets behind the barrel 1703 01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:07,280 Speaker 1: and puts his head around and I think, oh, that's 1704 01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:09,519 Speaker 1: you know, that's a big enough bear. And he then 1705 01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:11,840 Speaker 1: finally puts his front shoulder around him fifty yards in 1706 01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:15,920 Speaker 1: the bait. So it's an easy shot rifle boom. He drops, 1707 01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:18,400 Speaker 1: half his body behind the barrel, halfs in front. I 1708 01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:21,000 Speaker 1: go walking up and this bits, you know, a one 1709 01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:22,640 Speaker 1: year old bear. I mean it might as well have been. 1710 01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean the thing was four three ft long, and 1711 01:39:26,760 --> 01:39:29,519 Speaker 1: I just remember standing there going looking over this thing. I'm, 1712 01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, four at the time. Somewhere in there, I 1713 01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:40,719 Speaker 1: remember thinking, very honestly, thinking maybe I'll bury it, because 1714 01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:44,960 Speaker 1: I was like the shame, feeling the shame of killing 1715 01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:47,840 Speaker 1: this tiny little bear, feeling the shame. I'm still gonna 1716 01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:49,200 Speaker 1: eat it. I'm still gonna do all the things I 1717 01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:51,160 Speaker 1: would do if it was a big bear, but like 1718 01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:54,519 Speaker 1: feeling the cultural shame of doing that. I stood there 1719 01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:56,840 Speaker 1: for a minute and thought about burying it. I didn't, 1720 01:39:57,040 --> 01:39:58,720 Speaker 1: but I thought a part I was looking around, like 1721 01:39:58,760 --> 01:40:01,320 Speaker 1: where might I stuff this thing so I can keep 1722 01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:03,599 Speaker 1: hunting and and not have the shame of this thing. 1723 01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:07,400 Speaker 1: And so I didn't do that. Called the out there, 1724 01:40:07,479 --> 01:40:09,880 Speaker 1: he came pick me up, and they spoke French, so 1725 01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:12,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure they were like, look this guy. This guys 1726 01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:15,960 Speaker 1: didn't understand. There was another veteran bear hunter in camp 1727 01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:18,519 Speaker 1: who had just showing pictures all week of all these 1728 01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:20,360 Speaker 1: giant bears he had killed, and so we went to 1729 01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:23,880 Speaker 1: pick him up in the dark. I remember him coming 1730 01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:25,840 Speaker 1: out of the stand and his face you could almost 1731 01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:28,160 Speaker 1: see his face. It was so white in the darkness. 1732 01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:30,599 Speaker 1: And he came up and he had shot a bear 1733 01:40:30,760 --> 01:40:33,840 Speaker 1: like the same size as my bear. And he did 1734 01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:35,720 Speaker 1: the same thing I did, you know, And this is 1735 01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:37,800 Speaker 1: a guy that was all week in camp just I'm 1736 01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:40,760 Speaker 1: a big bear hunter. I'm the bear hunting guy. And 1737 01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:44,479 Speaker 1: he did the same thing I did. And so in 1738 01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:46,479 Speaker 1: some weird way I felt good about like, oh, thank 1739 01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:48,280 Speaker 1: god someone else did it. I don't feel so bad. 1740 01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:50,400 Speaker 1: So all that ship, I think it's just I say 1741 01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:52,720 Speaker 1: all that to say that that happens like there is 1742 01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:55,200 Speaker 1: a standard that you're trying to play by. There's rules 1743 01:40:55,240 --> 01:40:57,760 Speaker 1: at a standard. And you know you mentioned you know 1744 01:40:57,880 --> 01:41:03,400 Speaker 1: another fit for fair Chase. Fair Chase is also you 1745 01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:07,680 Speaker 1: don't have to edit any of your story. I mean, 1746 01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:11,280 Speaker 1: think about that when you telling your story to you know, 1747 01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:13,680 Speaker 1: buddies at camp or you know whatever, how is your 1748 01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:17,600 Speaker 1: hunting season? Well left out the part about, you know, 1749 01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:20,080 Speaker 1: my first shot hit him here, and the second shot 1750 01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:22,479 Speaker 1: hit him there, my four shot hit him there because 1751 01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:25,759 Speaker 1: he was running in four hundred yards fair chase spares 1752 01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:28,720 Speaker 1: you from having to edit your story, and it also 1753 01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:30,280 Speaker 1: gives you a street crad if you if people, if 1754 01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:33,160 Speaker 1: somebody has known me Homy for ten years and I 1755 01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:35,920 Speaker 1: come back with a story about killing a tiny bear, 1756 01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:38,439 Speaker 1: shooting an elk in the guts or something, They're like, yeah, 1757 01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:41,439 Speaker 1: we know, we know the standard that this person has. 1758 01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:43,439 Speaker 1: And you know that that's this is a fluke and 1759 01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:45,960 Speaker 1: not not because there was in preparation or not because 1760 01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:48,920 Speaker 1: there wasn't thought. Well, then you'll find that, you know, 1761 01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:53,960 Speaker 1: people gravitate toward like minded people. You'll you'll have buddies 1762 01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:55,800 Speaker 1: that you know want to continue to hunt with you 1763 01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:59,639 Speaker 1: because you you don't have the same standards, go about 1764 01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:03,160 Speaker 1: your business the same way. You know, we've probably all 1765 01:42:03,240 --> 01:42:06,040 Speaker 1: been in camp with you know some outlier that's just 1766 01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:11,639 Speaker 1: this guy is trouble, yeah, or you know, distance yourself 1767 01:42:11,680 --> 01:42:14,120 Speaker 1: from that person. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's there's 1768 01:42:14,160 --> 01:42:16,519 Speaker 1: also learnings, right, you also learn every year every year 1769 01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:19,000 Speaker 1: I feel like I get I'm a different hunter. I 1770 01:42:19,120 --> 01:42:21,160 Speaker 1: think every year, I said, I'll sit back in August 1771 01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:23,519 Speaker 1: and think like, okay, what's what's this year? I mean, 1772 01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:25,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't always like some big public land advocate. I 1773 01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:28,360 Speaker 1: didn't know. There's many years I didn't understand what it 1774 01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:30,479 Speaker 1: really was. Now and I think about hunting, I think 1775 01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:32,880 Speaker 1: about what public things canna go to, you know, So 1776 01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:34,720 Speaker 1: I think I change every year in that way, and 1777 01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:38,840 Speaker 1: those crappy experiences are just a better way to articulate 1778 01:42:38,880 --> 01:42:41,200 Speaker 1: like I'm different now. You know, I probably would would 1779 01:42:41,200 --> 01:42:45,200 Speaker 1: I hunt ever bait maybe, but I wouldn't. Um, I 1780 01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:47,320 Speaker 1: don't hold it up like I might have. Then, you know, 1781 01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:50,240 Speaker 1: I see it as a not a lesser form of hunting, 1782 01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:52,880 Speaker 1: but for me personally, not something I would do. Certainly 1783 01:42:52,920 --> 01:42:55,639 Speaker 1: something not something I would fly to Canada. So it's 1784 01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:59,240 Speaker 1: just things change, people change, and certainly hunting has changed. 1785 01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:06,400 Speaker 1: Hunting is about challenges and problem solving and so that's 1786 01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:09,439 Speaker 1: always a learning. I'm still learning. Um. That's one of 1787 01:43:09,479 --> 01:43:12,000 Speaker 1: the reasons I love bow hunting. It's it's it's a 1788 01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:16,760 Speaker 1: chess game, constant chess game. And where a fair chase 1789 01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:23,439 Speaker 1: came in is it gave you a way to solve 1790 01:43:23,880 --> 01:43:30,240 Speaker 1: those problems, address those challenges in an appropriate way. That's all. Yeah. 1791 01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:33,840 Speaker 1: I can't say it better than that. Cool, good place 1792 01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:37,160 Speaker 1: to end it. Hey man, Thanks get all covered. I 1793 01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:40,400 Speaker 1: don't think you can completely cover it, but we took 1794 01:43:40,439 --> 01:43:42,400 Speaker 1: a pretty good swipe at it. But we'll pick this 1795 01:43:42,479 --> 01:43:46,680 Speaker 1: back up at some bar and some trade show. Absolutely 1796 01:43:46,840 --> 01:43:49,240 Speaker 1: all right, Thanks you, hey, thanks Bro, appreciate it. Thanks, 1797 01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:57,400 Speaker 1: that's it. That is allis number seventy four in the books. 1798 01:43:57,800 --> 01:44:00,479 Speaker 1: Thank you to Keith Balford, Thanks to m Me Warren, 1799 01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:03,519 Speaker 1: and welcome to the Media Podcast Network. To Remy, and 1800 01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:07,000 Speaker 1: thanks for Phil the engineer for always being always being 1801 01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:10,040 Speaker 1: here for me. It's likely my emotional crutch. He's always 1802 01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:13,559 Speaker 1: supporting me, helping me. Uh. That was a great episode, man, 1803 01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:17,840 Speaker 1: And we're barreling very fast towards the peak time of 1804 01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:20,640 Speaker 1: hunting season, which is why, if I haven't said it 1805 01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:23,000 Speaker 1: already on this podcast, I think I have multiple times. 1806 01:44:23,040 --> 01:44:26,240 Speaker 1: You should go and subscribe to Cutting the Distance, Remy's 1807 01:44:26,280 --> 01:44:29,000 Speaker 1: new podcast. It's on our website, it's on iTunes, it's 1808 01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:32,600 Speaker 1: on Spotify, it's on Google Play, it's everywhere the podcast 1809 01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:35,800 Speaker 1: show up. Go check it out, Go check it out, 1810 01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:37,720 Speaker 1: Go check it out. But check it out. Remy and 1811 01:44:37,760 --> 01:44:40,439 Speaker 1: I have worked very hard on this, specifically Remy Um 1812 01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:43,200 Speaker 1: and I've I've been been there along the way to 1813 01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:45,639 Speaker 1: kind of see this thing through. We were working hard 1814 01:44:45,680 --> 01:44:47,599 Speaker 1: on it for for many months and so we're glad 1815 01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:49,200 Speaker 1: to see it out in the world. So you can 1816 01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,760 Speaker 1: listen to it and enjoy it every single week on Thursdays. 1817 01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:54,880 Speaker 1: The other thing you need to do is go to 1818 01:44:54,920 --> 01:44:57,080 Speaker 1: the mediator dot com. If you're not on the mediator 1819 01:44:57,160 --> 01:44:59,160 Speaker 1: dot com regularly, you need to be. You need to 1820 01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:01,640 Speaker 1: be there. Have a newsletter you can go subscribe to. 1821 01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:05,200 Speaker 1: That newsletter comes out every Wednesday evening and there's a 1822 01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:07,720 Speaker 1: lot of kick ass content on it. Right now, we're 1823 01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:11,200 Speaker 1: running this thing called fact Checker. Fact Checker has a 1824 01:45:11,320 --> 01:45:15,320 Speaker 1: lot of good content. For example, our daddy long legs poisonous? 1825 01:45:15,720 --> 01:45:19,720 Speaker 1: Are they venomous? Things of that nature. Fact Checker is 1826 01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:23,599 Speaker 1: basically anything you want to know in the outdoors, we'll 1827 01:45:23,640 --> 01:45:26,400 Speaker 1: fact check it for you. So right into us fact 1828 01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:29,120 Speaker 1: Checker at the meat Eator dot com. Some kind of 1829 01:45:29,280 --> 01:45:31,479 Speaker 1: claim that you'd like us to check out, and some 1830 01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:34,040 Speaker 1: of our intrepid reporters, including Spencer new Heart, will go 1831 01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:37,439 Speaker 1: out and figure out if it's true or not for you. 1832 01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:41,400 Speaker 1: So go to meeting dot com. It's great, you're gonna 1833 01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:42,599 Speaker 1: love it. A lot of recipes, a lot of other 1834 01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:45,800 Speaker 1: stuff go there, And I think that's it for this week. 1835 01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:48,120 Speaker 1: I just want to end by saying thanks to everybody 1836 01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:51,960 Speaker 1: for for hanging with us. UM. We have really had 1837 01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:55,679 Speaker 1: the my d ms on Instagram, th HD, It's meeting 1838 01:45:55,760 --> 01:45:58,840 Speaker 1: dot com has been lightened up recently to a point 1839 01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:01,000 Speaker 1: where it's hard for me to keep up. But please 1840 01:46:01,080 --> 01:46:04,240 Speaker 1: keep sending that feedback, Please keep letting us know what 1841 01:46:04,400 --> 01:46:08,840 Speaker 1: you think, good and bad. It's important to us, UM 1842 01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:10,720 Speaker 1: and I never could have imagined we'd get this much 1843 01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:13,120 Speaker 1: feedback and have this many folks listening to this show, 1844 01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:16,960 Speaker 1: and it is humbling and exciting, and we're gonna keep 1845 01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:20,439 Speaker 1: it going. Next week on the Hunting collectible'll leave you 1846 01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:25,720 Speaker 1: with a little old number seven, Oh number seven, Tennessee, 1847 01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:29,639 Speaker 1: who whiskey got me dragging heaven and uh and just stopped. 1848 01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:33,080 Speaker 1: It looks good to me. They're gonna have to department 1849 01:46:33,160 --> 01:47:00,040 Speaker 1: to the FIDEI Red w