Speaker 1: What is it like as a player to after all
Speaker 1: that you've experienced, immersed in gallery and stuff, to walk
Speaker 1: you know that amen corner where they keep everybody off
Speaker 1: to side. Does that actually feel like you're walking into
Speaker 1: like a painting? I don't know if f I feel
Speaker 1: that painting, but it is certainly the best ten minutes
Speaker 1: of your year as a professional golfile put another log
Speaker 1: on the fire know what here is? Give the time?
Speaker 1: All right, boys? You know the fire pit obviously, and
Speaker 1: you've been a part of what we've called fire drills.
Speaker 1: Alan same Michelson wins at the j Championship Michelson's book excerpt.
Speaker 1: We like instead of doing a five traditional fire pit podcast,
Speaker 1: multiple voices telling one story, we feel like this is
Speaker 1: the great week to launch the official fire drill, which
Speaker 1: around major championships, so daily pods around major championships or
Speaker 1: major news. It gives us the freedom to sort of
Speaker 1: get the same audience and and telling a different aspect
Speaker 1: of of storytelling around the game of golf. So here
Speaker 1: we are at Augusta, Georgia covering yet another master's being
Speaker 1: a part of yet another master's with Jeff Ogilvie, Allen
Speaker 1: Chip nuok and myself. It's fun. Yeah, I love the
Speaker 1: immediacy where we can just jump on a pod when
Speaker 1: something happens. I think it's gonna be it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a fun way to to talk about a lot different
Speaker 1: things with a variety of different hosts and voices and guests,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be kind of free flowing and
Speaker 1: you can have a better we guide to the Masters
Speaker 1: in Gusta, Nashville and Jeff Ogilvie, who loves this place,
Speaker 1: and do you want to talk about two thousand eleven
Speaker 1: when you made a spirited run and winning this thing.
Speaker 1: But how about the fact that he's just out of
Speaker 1: the country. You're you're moving around, you've been you've been
Speaker 1: going to the island. You know, we've been stuck in
Speaker 1: too and soon off use yeah two use hard to
Speaker 1: like too, Yeah, I mean really stuck. There was a
Speaker 1: couple of times three month periods where we didn't leave
Speaker 1: our house really in uh Melbourne, So that would that
Speaker 1: would being pretty tough on us, but you know, it
Speaker 1: was all in the spirit of saving people's loves and stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's kind of weird to move away from
Speaker 1: the US just expecting I was just gonna pop back
Speaker 1: a few months later and a few months later and
Speaker 1: becoming guy as I play as an officer to been stuck.
Speaker 1: The biggest disappointment was you not defending your title at
Speaker 1: the Wishbone Brawl at god Hill Park where last we
Speaker 1: saw you, you aced the ninth toll in a playoff
Speaker 1: to beat Dean Wilson and Andrews Shoffly with your partner
Speaker 1: Chris Riley. Obviously a good opportunity to share some love
Speaker 1: for John Ashworth, link Soul Jeff Cunningham, co creators of
Speaker 1: links Soul, who uh and Ashworth obviously being the caretaker
Speaker 1: go Hill Park, they made a shirt. They told me
Speaker 1: to give this to you. They've made a shirt for
Speaker 1: Lee Elder's family and specifically his wife have some financial troubles,
Speaker 1: so Linksoul made a shirt that all proceeds to the
Speaker 1: to the cell selling of this shirt will go to
Speaker 1: Lee Elder's family. So he played in his first Masters
Speaker 1: in anyway, this is a shirt for you from from
Speaker 1: John Ashworth and Jeff Cunningham. And for those who are
Speaker 1: listening and can't see this, that is it's got like
Speaker 1: some boss like nineteen seventies, like graphics you've got you
Speaker 1: got Lee and Green and that's pretty sweet. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to nag one of those. That's the part he
Speaker 1: made to get into the Masters, really forcing their hand
Speaker 1: because a tournament went would then be exempt into the Masters.
Speaker 1: So I recognize that it's beautiful. You know, this is
Speaker 1: what links Soul does and it's one of the things
Speaker 1: they do best, which is creating, you know, creating apparel
Speaker 1: for a cause, like they're doing for Ukraine, like they
Speaker 1: did for throughout the pandemic, and now what they're doing
Speaker 1: for Lee Elder. So I forgot Hill and for the
Speaker 1: Junior Caddy Academy and raised a hundred fifty dollars this
Speaker 1: year at the Wishbone Brawl for North County Junior Golf.
Speaker 1: So much love to John Ashworth, Linksoul, Jeff Cunningham and
Speaker 1: everything that they do. And they're big sponsor of everything
Speaker 1: we do at the fire Pits. So thanks to them.
Speaker 1: I love it. All. Right, let's talk about the good
Speaker 1: stuff here, which is the Masters. So let's just jump
Speaker 1: right in two thousand eleven because I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the most underrated Masters ever. Um let's just set
Speaker 1: the stage here. It's at a different point on Sunday,
Speaker 1: eight guys had a share of the lead or the
Speaker 1: outright lead, and Tiger starts off the Sunday going out
Speaker 1: in thirty and sets augusta National on fire. Get himself
Speaker 1: back in contention. Schwartzel hits one of the all time
Speaker 1: greatest shots of Master's history, that sort of bumping run
Speaker 1: from way short and right of the green stars out
Speaker 1: for Eagle, goes number three, no for Bertie, and the
Speaker 1: number three holes out for Eagle. So he flies up
Speaker 1: the leaderboard. The guy sitting with us here, Bertie's five
Speaker 1: in a row on the back nine to snag a
Speaker 1: piece of the lead. Like, just take us through that
Speaker 1: that whole day from your perspective, just the roars and
Speaker 1: the feeling of getting yourself in the mix. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean that was I don't know, six or seven
Speaker 1: masters infamy, and I hadn't had the rules that I
Speaker 1: all talked about. Really, you know, you get the odd
Speaker 1: one here or there. But that day I'll play with Freddie.
Speaker 1: I can only tell it from my perspective. I didn't
Speaker 1: say Shorts were doing all his thing, and I didn't
Speaker 1: say all the rest of his stuff, But I was
Speaker 1: playing with Freddie on Sunday at the Masters, which is
Speaker 1: the best drawing golf front, like, it doesn't get any
Speaker 1: better than that. Sort of four or five groups before
Speaker 1: the and maybe Tiger was in front of us, and
Speaker 1: Tigers set the whole day up from our perspective, because
Speaker 1: he's a group in front of us. He was I
Speaker 1: think four under after six or seven and then eight eight.
Speaker 1: You can see for anyone who's never been there, you
Speaker 1: can see from the eighth too, or the seventh grain
Speaker 1: and the eighth t. You have the look all the
Speaker 1: way out the eighth and as we were going from
Speaker 1: the seventh grad of the eighth t, we see Tiger
Speaker 1: hit his second shot and you can see him at
Speaker 1: this big hook around the corner on eight and it
Speaker 1: just goes quiet and then all of a sudd it
Speaker 1: feels like two minutes later you hear the row because
Speaker 1: the ball takes so long from it lands and rolls
Speaker 1: are well on the right edge of the green, went
Speaker 1: down to like this right like I went down like
Speaker 1: four ft or something um and you just heard it
Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker 1: And you knew walking to the eighth t Tigers about
Speaker 1: to make eagle on eight, you can just tell. And
Speaker 1: that's the first time on this course I'd ever noticed
Speaker 1: that you could tell what score wasn't only that someone's
Speaker 1: done Tiger has done something good. You knew it was
Speaker 1: a three, not a four, just by the way it sounded.
Speaker 1: And he makes eagle on eight, and you hear the
Speaker 1: cheer up at the roar up at the green. But
Speaker 1: then you hear the rules, the subsequent rules around the
Speaker 1: course as they put the numbers up on the leaderboard.
Speaker 1: So you hear the one on eighteen that goes nuts,
Speaker 1: and then you hear the one down at eleven and
Speaker 1: twelve and goes nuts, and then you hear the one
Speaker 1: at sixteen. You can hear this sequence of rules across
Speaker 1: the course. It's just outrageous. It's just like, now I
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about. This is special um. And
Speaker 1: I don't think I was playing that particularly well at
Speaker 1: this point. I can't really remember. UM sort of struggling
Speaker 1: away and I was kind of out of it. And
Speaker 1: I got to twelve, I think, and I was no
Speaker 1: chance going to win this tournament, Like there's just no way,
Speaker 1: Like I was. There was lots of people Tiger. I
Speaker 1: think three part at eleven or twelve didn't um, so
Speaker 1: he kind of went away, and Charles was up there,
Speaker 1: and I think Jason was up and about, Scotty was around,
Speaker 1: Locdonald was around, Bob and Pelt was around. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was names everywhere. And I birdied twelve, which is
Speaker 1: a bonus um and I can't really remember thirteen and fourteen,
Speaker 1: but I know a birdie them both. And then fifteen
Speaker 1: I had to lay up. I drove it left, which
Speaker 1: was my tendency on fifteen. Unfortunately on I pull it
Speaker 1: behind those trees like you see a lot of guys do.
Speaker 1: It's pretty easy to do because the right trees you've
Speaker 1: got no chance. Left sometimes you've got a chance. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I had to lay it up, which is a nightmare,
Speaker 1: but it had a really great wedge to like ten
Speaker 1: feet mate Bertie. And then so I'm now one back
Speaker 1: walking to and now I'm now I'm actually in it,
Speaker 1: I feel like. And then playing with Freddie, we both
Speaker 1: hit that shot on the famous holder. I have to
Speaker 1: stop you because there's that Janet scoreboard by green, so
Speaker 1: there's no doubt where you stay in the tournament. So
Speaker 1: when when you make that Birdie pot fifteen. What is
Speaker 1: the adrenaline series? Like, holy shit, I might win the Masters?
Speaker 1: Like what does that feel? Like? It was less? It's
Speaker 1: less I might win than I'm in this now, like
Speaker 1: this is what I do? Like this is My whole
Speaker 1: life is to have a chance. You know, the winning
Speaker 1: to me is a byproduct of other things. I think
Speaker 1: the goal for me always is just getting the mix,
Speaker 1: because that's the fun part. One back or something on
Speaker 1: Sunday the Masters. That's that's the reason I play. Like
Speaker 1: that moment, you know, it's less about the win at
Speaker 1: that moment that this is this is it, I'm here,
Speaker 1: This is the moment. You know, I've had moments and
Speaker 1: other tournaments, but this was at the moment, my first
Speaker 1: real moment in this tournament. Um, it's just a good feeling.
Speaker 1: And again I keep referencing Freddy, but when you play
Speaker 1: with Freddie at the Masters, you get a standing ovation
Speaker 1: onto every tea and every grain. You don't, but you're
Speaker 1: witnessed to it because Freddy's getting it everywhere. And it's
Speaker 1: just they love him. You can't. A crowd cannot love
Speaker 1: a person more than Augusta loves fred Couples, I mean,
Speaker 1: he is their man um And so the whole walk
Speaker 1: from the righthand side of the fifth grain all the
Speaker 1: way down to the six teh tea, subsequently hitting the
Speaker 1: sixteenth tea shot and then getting to the sevente tea,
Speaker 1: nobody sat down. Did not feel like anyway, they just
Speaker 1: not started just stop you a little bit to hit
Speaker 1: your shot. I had a really good shot up on
Speaker 1: the tier, rolls down stiff, you know, the one that
Speaker 1: you think is going to go in from the tea.
Speaker 1: They all they're all standing up on the edge and
Speaker 1: they're all going nuts at the green. And then he
Speaker 1: does the same thing on top of me. So we're
Speaker 1: both three ft on sixteen those birdies happening everywhere. There's
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of names on the letter board, and
Speaker 1: they did not sit down and stop cheering until we
Speaker 1: got to It was nuts. It was absolutely crazy, incredible feeling.
Speaker 1: I remember, I mean, your shot came really close to
Speaker 1: going in. And remember he telling me once like watching
Speaker 1: it trickle down there, you're like, if this goes in,
Speaker 1: I'm going to win the master. Like like this is
Speaker 1: an agonizing, like slow little trickle, like just like you
Speaker 1: almost don't want it to go in because you don't.
Speaker 1: You don't want to be lucky. You want it to
Speaker 1: be good so much. That's a good shot if it's closed,
Speaker 1: it's lucky if it goes in right. Um, No, your
Speaker 1: whole life, you've wanted to hit that shot, Like you
Speaker 1: get that chance every year when you get to play
Speaker 1: the Master. You get the chance to hit that shot right.
Speaker 1: The lands right and it rolls down and it might
Speaker 1: go in. And um, it's actually a pretty easy pin
Speaker 1: outside of the Masters. That pin, I mean, anywhere thirty
Speaker 1: right at the pin with any sort of right distance
Speaker 1: seems to end up next to the hole. But to
Speaker 1: actually hit the shot that you've seen so many people
Speaker 1: hit over the years. And actually as soon as I
Speaker 1: hit it, I knew it was good, Like as soon
Speaker 1: as I take five and go to Hill Park, I
Speaker 1: could totally relate, except for it's Hill Park, And yeah,
Speaker 1: just that unbelievable just to be in the mix and
Speaker 1: there's rules everywhere. At this point, people are making birdies everywhere.
Speaker 1: And at that point when I got to the seventh
Speaker 1: there was five five of us tied for the lead.
Speaker 1: Um and as I said, we're about four flast group.
Speaker 1: I think maybe fifth, last group fourth because a lot
Speaker 1: of people in the mix and I can't remember w
Speaker 1: Schwartz wasn't the last group, right, I think? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: he was leading going in him and he would j
Speaker 1: who played well at the mast, Yeah, yeah, And I
Speaker 1: parted the last two holes, hit at the front bunk
Speaker 1: on seventeen, which is kind of not the worst place
Speaker 1: to hit it up and down part eighteen, and ended
Speaker 1: up losing by four, which didn't feel like it when
Speaker 1: I was going up the last I think I was
Speaker 1: now one back when I was going up the last
Speaker 1: Birdie he would be great, but part you never know, right,
Speaker 1: And the group behind me looked. Donald chipped in to
Speaker 1: finish on the same score as us, and we thought, well,
Speaker 1: this is all right, like hanger it don't leave the
Speaker 1: clubhouse sort of thing, very quickly erased by Adam Birdie
Speaker 1: fifteen and sixteen behind us to go to in front
Speaker 1: of us, and he wasn't going to drop two shots.
Speaker 1: But Scotty, he's the most hard done by that week
Speaker 1: because he was too in front on the seventeenth t
Speaker 1: on Sunday, part the last two holes and lost by
Speaker 1: two shorts on Birdie to lash four four, which is
Speaker 1: just that doesn't happen, right, It just doesn't happen. I
Speaker 1: meant sixteen, yes, but seventeen is a tough hole. And
Speaker 1: we've seen birdies on eighteen, but not after the three
Speaker 1: birdies previous. At seventeen he drove into the rough and
Speaker 1: had to bend one around a tree limb. Is probably
Speaker 1: the best shot of the day, even even though he
Speaker 1: he jarred two others to get there. But an incredible shot.
Speaker 1: Some days of your day, it was clearly his day
Speaker 1: all day. Or if you actually look back at what
Speaker 1: happened to Charlotte day, I was like, well, it's just
Speaker 1: it was his turn, right. If you think back to
Speaker 1: your whole your master's career, is that the one that
Speaker 1: you replay the most, or or is you don't even
Speaker 1: play that game? You don't. I don't play that game,
Speaker 1: not really. I've always had a good time here. I'd
Speaker 1: love to play it again. Um never missed the cut,
Speaker 1: always sort of played all right. It's the sort of
Speaker 1: thing that just I needed stuff to be this big
Speaker 1: two engaged fully properly. I think now that I look back,
Speaker 1: like when you play thirty tournaments a year, not taking
Speaker 1: it away from any other tournament when you When I
Speaker 1: was young, I could get into it didn't matter. I
Speaker 1: could get into, didn't matter how small the tournament was.
Speaker 1: But when you do it thirty times a year, you
Speaker 1: can you're always looking. When you start getting in the
Speaker 1: majors and stuff, you just start looking towards the majors
Speaker 1: and the big tournaments. So actually get a like to
Speaker 1: be fully engaged. It sounds funny that you wouldn't get
Speaker 1: engaged on Thursday at Torry Pines or wherever, but it's
Speaker 1: different when your whole mondset is about winning tonements like this.
Speaker 1: So when you're at Tonam was like this, you're you're
Speaker 1: fully there, whereas when you're the last wake at San Antonio,
Speaker 1: something's you're thinking about here when you're there, so you're
Speaker 1: not fully fully engaged. You know. I also think that
Speaker 1: having you and I buzzed around Melbourne and played, you know,
Speaker 1: however many courses we played in so many days, but
Speaker 1: there has to be something to the fact that when
Speaker 1: you go I remember asking Tom Dope where would be
Speaker 1: the one place you'd take like a buddy strip and
Speaker 1: he said Melbourne, And I was like, really in Melbourne
Speaker 1: And then having been there and seeing the quality of
Speaker 1: golf and the architecture and the strategy to almost every
Speaker 1: shot you're hitting. Was there something to the fact that
Speaker 1: you grew up around this, around this level of of
Speaker 1: venue and shot making and strategy. Did it take certain
Speaker 1: venues here to actually pique your interest an architectural and
Speaker 1: strategic standpoint or a little bit fall asleep sometimes out
Speaker 1: there for the generic US architecture from time to time,
Speaker 1: it's less about the architecture more about the set up.
Speaker 1: I think. I think you can have great courses set
Speaker 1: up boring, you know, and you can have average courses
Speaker 1: set up really fun, you know. But as far as
Speaker 1: Royal Melbourne when I grew up next door to Role Melbourne,
Speaker 1: I currently live right right like literally next door to
Speaker 1: Roll Melbourne. That if any greens in the world that
Speaker 1: you would go to to get ready for this, I'd
Speaker 1: go there, you know. I mean, it's not practical. It's
Speaker 1: twenty hours in a plane away and um, the seasons
Speaker 1: are different and all that, But like it's the shots
Speaker 1: that you that I grew up watching golf tournaments at
Speaker 1: as a kid at Royal Melbourne. There was a tournament
Speaker 1: there every year when I was a kid, like everybody
Speaker 1: came Jack, Greg, Freddie, Paint Stewart, everybody played in Australia
Speaker 1: in those days, it was Watson. It was I grew
Speaker 1: up watching parts at least in short game shots and
Speaker 1: shots and the grinds that people play here. You know that.
Speaker 1: To me it was professional golf. And I think if
Speaker 1: the architecture side of thing, the lack of engagement hit
Speaker 1: me a little bit. It's just because it's you, you narrow.
Speaker 1: Professional golf, unfortunately, sometimes comes down to who drives at
Speaker 1: the longest and stratus and who puts the best you
Speaker 1: know whereas you when you get places to like this
Speaker 1: and the old course, Marian and Riverea does it every
Speaker 1: year and even like w of course is like Cappe Louer.
Speaker 1: To be honest, they do it like it's not what
Speaker 1: everyone would necessarily think is like maybe it looks like
Speaker 1: a resort, It isn't. Cappelua gets you to like tons
Speaker 1: of geometry, yea, and use the slope and don't fight
Speaker 1: the land, use the land, and like use your where
Speaker 1: are my best approaching? When the fairways a hundred yards wide,
Speaker 1: you have to decide where the best place to come
Speaker 1: in from and stuff and I think when it's like that,
Speaker 1: I engaged more. But generally I think it was it's
Speaker 1: set up. If it's firm, the pins are interesting, you know.
Speaker 1: I think I got into it. It was more just
Speaker 1: the occasion, I think, more than anything else, if that
Speaker 1: makes sense. So you said you'd like to play the
Speaker 1: Masters again, Maybe we should just pause a little bit
Speaker 1: for the listeners and recognize, like Jeff is become part
Speaker 1: of the the fire Prey collective and you're thinking about maybe
Speaker 1: more macro role in the game than than just playing.
Speaker 1: But for the people at home, where are you in
Speaker 1: your career? What what is the depth of your ambitions?
Speaker 1: What would you like to accomplish, Like, let's just get
Speaker 1: that out of the way, real quick, real quick. Look,
Speaker 1: I don't really know. It's a moving target. When I
Speaker 1: moved back to Australia a few years ago, needing a
Speaker 1: bit of a gap year because I was just over it,
Speaker 1: um a little bit, spend a bit of time with
Speaker 1: the kids, trave a little bit less, let them sort
Speaker 1: of suck up Australia a little bit, um, all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. And then COVID came alot and I
Speaker 1: was planning on just playing a few, you know, doing
Speaker 1: a few things on this absolutely, um So I've never
Speaker 1: hated this sort of things like a lot of my peers.
Speaker 1: But uh, I still think of myself as a golfer,
Speaker 1: you know, but knowing that I've scratched my itch, you know,
Speaker 1: like I don't need to scratch it anymore, Like I'm
Speaker 1: a golfer. So that's kind of what I would my
Speaker 1: comfort zone is playing a golf tournament, um but understanding
Speaker 1: that it's there, it's not all the dream your life
Speaker 1: it looks, especially when you've got kids in family and
Speaker 1: it's nice to be home and a golf tournament isn't
Speaker 1: You don't go away for the weekend, and people tune
Speaker 1: on t vs and again, we've been there since Monday,
Speaker 1: you know, and then we leave on Sunday. We go
Speaker 1: somewhere else from Monday to Sunday, and then we leave it.
Speaker 1: We go somewhere else from Monday. Say, it's like it's
Speaker 1: quite a long sort of a lot of time away
Speaker 1: from home, and I'm not there at the moment. So
Speaker 1: I'll still think I'll play wherever I can and fit
Speaker 1: it in. But I've done being a full time golfer,
Speaker 1: So I like this sort of things. We're building golf
Speaker 1: courses now, um men, Michael Cockey and actually made sort
Speaker 1: of I'm really learning from them their twenty years into
Speaker 1: this sort of business. I mean sort of about ten
Speaker 1: years and um sort of really hitting their hitting their
Speaker 1: stride or we're hitting our stride and seat of getting
Speaker 1: some nice properties to work with and doing all that
Speaker 1: and that's really exciting. And this sort of things five
Speaker 1: pit and getting to talk the rubbish that's always been
Speaker 1: in my head, the game. I think it's just I
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting and I could talk about golf indefinitely.
Speaker 1: Um one man's rubbish is another man's treasure, and that's
Speaker 1: what we'll make that a shure. Jeff's rubbish is our treasure.
Speaker 1: You're I mean, you look like you're in great shape.
Speaker 1: The talent is not drained out of your body. But
Speaker 1: to get back to the masters or to to have
Speaker 1: another run, does it just come down to the commitment,
Speaker 1: like do you want to pay that price to really
Speaker 1: get your game rasor sharp? Like? Is that I'd love
Speaker 1: to pay that price, That's all And as I kind
Speaker 1: of I would I would hint at to everybody, and
Speaker 1: it's not hard it's not hard work for me. Like
Speaker 1: that's comfort zone for me is getting up in the
Speaker 1: morning with a mission, you know, with golf. I think
Speaker 1: that's to be honest, I've always found that relatively easy
Speaker 1: because you want it. You know. It's better than getting
Speaker 1: in the car and driving to the office every day.
Speaker 1: My office is the golf course. That's a good office.
Speaker 1: But life gets progressively more complicated. Um, and there's and
Speaker 1: your priorities change, you know, Like kids are pretty important.
Speaker 1: Family is important. Being at home. I spent twenty years
Speaker 1: not in my home country, you know. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: kind of enjoying being around my people a little bit,
Speaker 1: even though for all I could easily end up spending
Speaker 1: the last fifty years of my life here too. At
Speaker 1: the moment, I'm really enjoying Australia and having a good time.
Speaker 1: I don't I really don't know. I could have played
Speaker 1: my last tournament. I don't think I have, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: and I could sort of get my life arranged where
Speaker 1: I can play a bunch as well as do all
Speaker 1: this other stuff. You always have the sand and yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's peaking the interests. And I've been playing a
Speaker 1: lot with the kids. The young sort of elite up
Speaker 1: and comers, trying to help them in a well, I
Speaker 1: just want to hang out with them because they're young
Speaker 1: and they're frothing on golf and like they're good and
Speaker 1: they hit it further than me, and I want to
Speaker 1: play with them. But also playing with them it makes
Speaker 1: me realize that we have sort of knowledge for them
Speaker 1: that they can benefit of them. And I say we
Speaker 1: we being those who have played on to it for
Speaker 1: twenty years or so, and we have a few in
Speaker 1: Melbourne down nicka Hern's there, Marcus Fraser played in Europe
Speaker 1: twenty years and a whole bunch of other guys who
Speaker 1: have played elements of to a golf. These kids are
Speaker 1: getting taught really golf, the fundamentals of golf better than
Speaker 1: we ever did. But they're a little bit clueless as
Speaker 1: to to a golf and what makes it to a
Speaker 1: golfer and what really what skill sets are really sort
Speaker 1: of valued out there and are important and which ones aren't.
Speaker 1: And it's fun to play with them and sort of
Speaker 1: have them pepper us with questions about to a life
Speaker 1: and management and where should I play and do we
Speaker 1: go to do I go to the West Coast to
Speaker 1: the east coast of the US, or should I go
Speaker 1: to Europe first? Or what do you think about Japan?
Speaker 1: And like what am I going to expect? And all
Speaker 1: that's of stuff. And I find that stuff really fun,
Speaker 1: especially playing with young enthusiast playing with enthusiasm. The enthusiasm
Speaker 1: is a rare commodity on guys who have been on
Speaker 1: tour for twenty years. As you guys have come across,
Speaker 1: you know, like the youngsters, I mean, they're bouncing off
Speaker 1: the walls, right, and they're just excited about everything. So
Speaker 1: we get jaded about not getting three new drivers a
Speaker 1: month as opposed to only two or something, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like they're like frossing on the idea.
Speaker 1: They get provate ones on the range, you know, like,
Speaker 1: and that's just exciting to be around. So being around
Speaker 1: those guys, I'm playing with them is fun too. So
Speaker 1: I really have no I'm just doing today and we'll
Speaker 1: see what happens tomorrow, you know, Okay, we should That
Speaker 1: was a necessary day version. Now let's get back to
Speaker 1: let's get back to the master. So, um, you know
Speaker 1: you do have that discerning eye for architecture. You're out
Speaker 1: there at the course today on Tuesday. Um, do you
Speaker 1: think of the changes, and that's particularly the tree the
Speaker 1: middle of fairway at eleven, Well, it's it's it's in
Speaker 1: the middle of the fairway, but it's there's now three
Speaker 1: trees where there were fifty trees. It's definitely an improvement,
Speaker 1: but it's a net positive. But that that tree looks
Speaker 1: really weird to be added to my eye. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I'm down with it. I don't know. Look,
Speaker 1: I think they have their challenges clearly with what's happened
Speaker 1: to how far people have hit it in the last
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty years, you know, And they're really always
Speaker 1: seemed to be intent on just retaining the sort of
Speaker 1: same sword of clubs and shots that have always that
Speaker 1: Jones and Mackenzie wanted us to hit in here, you know.
Speaker 1: And eleven there's been one that they've had a few
Speaker 1: cracks out in the last twenty years, you know, like
Speaker 1: it's the one. It seems to be the one that
Speaker 1: they want to get right, you know. And I think
Speaker 1: when they first narrowed it, it was too narrow, and
Speaker 1: they without telling anyone, sort of progressively wandered over the
Speaker 1: years anyway. I don't know if you've noticed that, but
Speaker 1: the very first year it was really narrow on the
Speaker 1: fairways way to the left, and the fairway got a
Speaker 1: little bit further and further to the right. It's a
Speaker 1: better hole when you let people miss their drive to
Speaker 1: the right because the second shot is so interesting from
Speaker 1: the right because of that big lump before the green.
Speaker 1: You can't run it up from the right because you
Speaker 1: run up from the right, you're either gonna be on
Speaker 1: the twelve d or you're gonna be in the water.
Speaker 1: But you can't run it onto the green from the
Speaker 1: right hand side. So I think allowing people to miss
Speaker 1: it and before we hit it in the right trees
Speaker 1: and you just chip it out. Now people are getting
Speaker 1: in the right trees. I know, heideki and filling that
Speaker 1: of a tiger of escaped trouble over there. But they
Speaker 1: were kind of fortunate for the last couple of years
Speaker 1: they were fortunately they were so far right. But now
Speaker 1: people are going to be under those trees, that tree
Speaker 1: that you don't like, they're going to try to go
Speaker 1: for it, which is fraught with all sorts of danger,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's asking questions that they want recovery
Speaker 1: shots out here, and I think when they allow recovery shots,
Speaker 1: the courses at its best, you know. And I think
Speaker 1: eleven time will tell. I think fifteens are bigger chant.
Speaker 1: I think fifteen could completely profoundly change the tournament if
Speaker 1: the t Yeah, because twenty is a lot on that
Speaker 1: whole because it feels hill too. Now the drive you
Speaker 1: further down the hill a little bit, um, it's not
Speaker 1: the whole you want to have to thirty two forty
Speaker 1: and two because you have to go for it right.
Speaker 1: And we always see and everyone talks about yeah, but
Speaker 1: guys have been hitting six and seven ones in here,
Speaker 1: but they have on Sunday when the weather is right,
Speaker 1: likes further back, if it's slight, gets into the wind,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit soft like it might be if
Speaker 1: you get the whole field laying up. I think they've
Speaker 1: got that wrong because I think it'll be a bit
Speaker 1: boring if everybody lays it up. And isn't that But
Speaker 1: isn't that again? The tiger proofing actually ended up plate
Speaker 1: into the hands of longer by making that a longer hold.
Speaker 1: Doesn't that actually benefit the longer hitters? Always? Always? I
Speaker 1: mean it always this is my new thing. It's like
Speaker 1: adding length is not the answer to a distance issue.
Speaker 1: I should take length away exactly, Like it just seems
Speaker 1: like going in the wrong direction. I don't this is
Speaker 1: it's bothering me. Like the longer hitters are gonna love
Speaker 1: the fact that fifteen plays twenty yards on it because
Speaker 1: now the shorter guys are forced to lay up and
Speaker 1: the long guys can actually still go for it. But
Speaker 1: when the long guys go for it, it it will be
Speaker 1: a more dangerous shot. I mean they were hitting eight irons,
Speaker 1: and you know, Sergio hit an eight iron and fifteen
Speaker 1: with the masters on the line. As you know, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna hit an iron perfect every time. But it
Speaker 1: kind of takes the water out of play, like he's
Speaker 1: going to get the yards more or less right. But
Speaker 1: like when when Jennifer cup Too won the Analyst, she
Speaker 1: hit a hybrid in and there was a dangerous shot
Speaker 1: she had lost the tournament. Like I think, if you
Speaker 1: get guys having to hit four or five irons, that's exciting,
Speaker 1: but they will I mean twenty yards of again. People
Speaker 1: will say Sunday often and I think, oh, everyone's hitting
Speaker 1: idon and here I assure you the year that surge
Speaker 1: id on in on Sunday, half of the field had
Speaker 1: to lie it out that way because they didn't drive
Speaker 1: a fire enough, you know, Like it's not like the
Speaker 1: whole field hits idon In, you know, and he's feeling
Speaker 1: and a Sunday and the weather was a I think, look,
Speaker 1: they'll get it right. They never get it wrong ever.
Speaker 1: And if they've got the weather and they know to
Speaker 1: the yard how much the ball is going to run
Speaker 1: on the fairway by Sunday, they'll have the tea. But
Speaker 1: they'll make it. It'll work, it'll be perfect, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that's Eleven's always been tough. It's always going
Speaker 1: to be tough. It's just made a tougher hole. Maybe
Speaker 1: slightly tougher, you know, but almost easier off to a
Speaker 1: little bit in a way. You know, fifteen is a
Speaker 1: profound change. If it gets into the wind and the
Speaker 1: whole field one day has to lay up and they
Speaker 1: all have that wed shot. I mean some guys have
Speaker 1: probably have been Dustin's probably hasn't had that wed shot
Speaker 1: that much, you know, Rory, like they've always gone for
Speaker 1: the grain. Will be interesting because it's the hardest wed
Speaker 1: shot in golf by a long stretch and that's kind
Speaker 1: of fun. Actually, I would love to see that. That's
Speaker 1: that's stressful for those guys, really stressful, But it's a
Speaker 1: good point. They don't have to use they don't have
Speaker 1: to tip it out. I mean they could, they could,
Speaker 1: they could play with it. So a couple of days
Speaker 1: it's it's a ballbuster, and a couple of days they
Speaker 1: moved up yards and tast twenty yards long, so it
Speaker 1: will be the same as what the front of the
Speaker 1: tea is probably where the back of the album was.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I've always loved when Live From has Cranshaw
Speaker 1: on and he kind of takes them, takes them through
Speaker 1: the golf course and he goes hold by home. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that you have to go hold by hold,
Speaker 1: but I'd be interested in just sort of as you
Speaker 1: almost like Mike Kaiser does when he when he assesses
Speaker 1: a golf course, he kind of gives it a one
Speaker 1: through ten rating per hole and then he tries to
Speaker 1: see how many you know, where it stacks up in
Speaker 1: terms of how he rates it. Can you just kind
Speaker 1: of breathe through the golf course and just give us
Speaker 1: your sense of hole by whole. What you what you
Speaker 1: kind of think of the whole as it relates to
Speaker 1: sort of the greater good of architecture. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: look one is underrated. That's it's one of the tougher
Speaker 1: holes on the course. I would tell you, um, it
Speaker 1: would be less tough. I guess if it wasn't the
Speaker 1: first hole. Um, but it's a tough hole. I mean
Speaker 1: it's longer than people think from back at the Master's tall.
Speaker 1: You've got to hit a decently solid one to get
Speaker 1: it up on the flat, and you've got sort of
Speaker 1: severn right onto the hardest grain on the course, arguably
Speaker 1: the first, because there's no bailout on the first. You
Speaker 1: can't if you left left to the green or longer
Speaker 1: the green, you're gonna you're gone. You can't get it
Speaker 1: up and down. It's almost impossible to get down over
Speaker 1: the back. Is actually hard to get chips out on
Speaker 1: the green. Right's really the miss. But you don't really
Speaker 1: want to try to miss the first one on purpose,
Speaker 1: you know, Um, no real bail from halfway up the green,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times the ball will come off
Speaker 1: the green, so you can't just try to hit it
Speaker 1: five on the front and like having up your part
Speaker 1: because it'll come off. So it's a hole that gets
Speaker 1: you defensive from the start. It reminds me of the ocean,
Speaker 1: that green like that you always like see the ripples
Speaker 1: of the waves. Yeah, and an architecturally makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1: The bunkers on the inside of the dog leg. You
Speaker 1: can drive it close to the bunker. You get your
Speaker 1: angle to the front left pin in the minute. It
Speaker 1: doesn't really in reality play like that. You're just trying
Speaker 1: to hit the fairway and hit the green. But it
Speaker 1: ticks the box, right, It makes sense to what would
Speaker 1: you rate number one if you had to give it
Speaker 1: a one through ten as a first hole? But what
Speaker 1: on on scale of one to ten of just being good? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what you would consider an amazing a turkey? Well if
Speaker 1: thirteens of ten um it's just seven or eight or something,
Speaker 1: it's a good hole. Like you'd be happy if that
Speaker 1: was your first time in any course. Right, Yeah, we've
Speaker 1: got a seven point five. And whoever built that grain
Speaker 1: and design that Graham, I mean, like you'd be proud
Speaker 1: of that grain, you know. I think it wasn't two
Speaker 1: is a cool hole. It was a weird t shot.
Speaker 1: Two breaks the traditional rule of having the trouble on
Speaker 1: the inside of the dog leg like challenges you on
Speaker 1: the outside the dog like that. But it makes sense
Speaker 1: because you want to drive it right, because you get
Speaker 1: the angle to the green um odd t shot two
Speaker 1: UM and got longer and longer and longer um as
Speaker 1: the years went on that I played it like when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. I mean when in ninety seven
Speaker 1: target like eight on or something into two right, something
Speaker 1: crazy like on something or something like that. I've never
Speaker 1: kind of even never imagined. I've never had less than
Speaker 1: like maybe two on UM. Two is an unbelievable grain.
Speaker 1: Like the whole course is about grains really to be
Speaker 1: fair um grains and slope. They used slope very well.
Speaker 1: I don't know where I'd write two twos and umber
Speaker 1: it again. I would have been very happy to come
Speaker 1: up with two. It's a very interesting second shot. There's
Speaker 1: zero rough, nothing to worry about in the second shot whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Yet you have to get really sort of fun because
Speaker 1: if you have to miss the ball right of the
Speaker 1: pin generally because the whole thing is back left or
Speaker 1: front right, that grain and if you're anywhere sort of
Speaker 1: right of the pin, as you play the whole you've
Speaker 1: got a chance to get up and down and stop it.
Speaker 1: That screen reminds me, what is the first part five?
Speaker 1: Unreal Melbourne West? Is that four four West? Yeah? That green?
Speaker 1: That was my favorite shot on that course going into
Speaker 1: that green, and it's just kind of reminds me of too,
Speaker 1: the way it's banked and sloped and you can you
Speaker 1: can you can play about seven different shots to get
Speaker 1: to the flag and the super fun shots around green
Speaker 1: that front that that Sunday ish pin they've been using
Speaker 1: for the last ten years or so. That's a fun
Speaker 1: pin to pitch out because you can kind of hit
Speaker 1: it up the middle of the green and get it
Speaker 1: next to that and even long shots can come up
Speaker 1: and roll up that rule, up that that slope. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's it's a new I don't know where
Speaker 1: I rate two. It's a great part five though, like
Speaker 1: and it shows you you don't you stick at a
Speaker 1: hundred yard wide fairway. There is really no trouble around
Speaker 1: the green. A couple of bunkers, but it'll drive you nuts.
Speaker 1: And there's a three or a seven there or even
Speaker 1: more if you drive it left, and you drive it
Speaker 1: left is a little creek down the bottom of the
Speaker 1: hill and the flowers and stuff. You don't want to
Speaker 1: hit it down there. We'll give it an eight. Now
Speaker 1: we can always come back and change a little bit.
Speaker 1: Fun further review, third hole three is a cool hole three.
Speaker 1: It's got better now. I think the guys that driver
Speaker 1: almost you know, because when for the first few years
Speaker 1: I played, everybody just hit sort of the two or
Speaker 1: three on up level with the bunkers and wedge it
Speaker 1: on um. And the only time we would hit driver
Speaker 1: early days was when that pin was in that tucked
Speaker 1: back right bit, you know, because it was kind of
Speaker 1: good to be down close to the grain. You could
Speaker 1: sort of run it up to the pin. Incredibly hard grain.
Speaker 1: Awkward hole second shot, it goes away from you that
Speaker 1: that left hand side of the grain. It's almost impossible
Speaker 1: to get a wedge on the grain on that left
Speaker 1: hand side, you know. Awkward, uncomfortable feeling hall to play. Yeah. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not good with ratings, but there's
Speaker 1: been a short path forwards in the world than three
Speaker 1: of the masters. But there's something about the whole that yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know where it is in the routing too.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, coming off a scoreable five and
Speaker 1: unsettling short three, then a long four, I mean a
Speaker 1: long part three is the fourth two and three is
Speaker 1: where you have to make your score exactly because because
Speaker 1: four and five with ballbusters, so like three is an
Speaker 1: opportunity even if you're like, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: should a driver here, I'm not feeling it yet. I'm
Speaker 1: easing into the round. But you one, four and five
Speaker 1: are really tough, so you really want a birdie at
Speaker 1: least one of two or three hopefully both, right, um,
Speaker 1: a sort of insurance against four and five. Bertie two
Speaker 1: and three really awkward, tricky hole. It's not in my
Speaker 1: top eighteen holes in the world, but really cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's one of those grains. That's one of the
Speaker 1: grains that you first get to here that just makes
Speaker 1: you appreciate the tilt on these grains. It is outrageous
Speaker 1: because that's not something the greens here like the kind
Speaker 1: of got the wavy bits in him or the different
Speaker 1: sort of levels. That one's just pure tilt. And it's
Speaker 1: that's when you first really you've got this. Your caddy,
Speaker 1: you'll tell you you're aiming four ft right of the
Speaker 1: hole or something on this part and you think you're
Speaker 1: being really smart and he like aims right of the
Speaker 1: whole for your part, and you're like there's no chance,
Speaker 1: and you don't do it, and you miss the part
Speaker 1: way low, you know, like it's three is tough. You
Speaker 1: miss it over the green really for your second if
Speaker 1: you can over the green and left of the pin. Four,
Speaker 1: it's just for the beast for it a amazing past three.
Speaker 1: Like if you built that anywhere else, I've got an
Speaker 1: unbelievable grain that people would run you off out of
Speaker 1: the business. Like it's you know, like how hard a
Speaker 1: hole is that. I can't remember one Masters in the nineties,
Speaker 1: one of my first masters, they had the pin on
Speaker 1: that front little tongue, and it was that that's that
Speaker 1: you can stopping that slope and guys are four or
Speaker 1: five putting and there was just a lot of happiness,
Speaker 1: but that that was cool. It was it was that fromping.
Speaker 1: I don't use that very much, but I think it's
Speaker 1: probably because of that day. It was like it was
Speaker 1: out of control, like as you're saying, it's on the
Speaker 1: edge of being unfair, depending whe they put the flame. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it actually plays a lot more doable for stable in
Speaker 1: the torn for some reason, and three hours to that
Speaker 1: back right thing and stuff. I don't know. It's a
Speaker 1: really tough hole, but it's a playable tough houle, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't know too forty two fifty. It sounds so unreal.
Speaker 1: It was downhill and you pumped up and generally would
Speaker 1: be more downwind. I would have certain into the wind generally,
Speaker 1: even though it sort of blows all over the place.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, tough old great part three for a long
Speaker 1: path three, it's legit. I would be very proud of
Speaker 1: having that all if i'd build that all. It's crazy
Speaker 1: green too. Again, how do you build that green like
Speaker 1: it's People don't have an appreciation for how slopy and
Speaker 1: how arly these greens are and how different that whole
Speaker 1: can play. From that front left pin to the back
Speaker 1: right one and the back right one, it's only about
Speaker 1: four from the hedge and the trees. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a three on and you really kind of have to
Speaker 1: go for it because if you don't go for it,
Speaker 1: you're a hundred feet away because if you land much
Speaker 1: left of that pin, it just goes all the way
Speaker 1: down to the left. Feel like I've seen a lot
Speaker 1: of visuals of guys, you know, asked coming out of
Speaker 1: those hedges looking for their ball, digging around in there
Speaker 1: on the right end side. It comes up quick. You
Speaker 1: can land on the grain and go in there on.
Speaker 1: Feel should have won the two thou that triple right
Speaker 1: hand out of hedge, It comes up quickly. Yeah, for
Speaker 1: a great hole. I would have been proud of building
Speaker 1: that one. That's a good hole. Five brutal hole. Let's
Speaker 1: just go harder and harder. I mean that green again,
Speaker 1: you cannot even imagine. It's so long now, like it
Speaker 1: was long ish before they added this. What they add
Speaker 1: thirty a couple of years ago out on the Berke
Speaker 1: control fifty or sixty um. So it's kind of like
Speaker 1: between driver and three would just don't hit it left
Speaker 1: off the tea. As long as you're right, you're okay,
Speaker 1: and you have a five or six on too a
Speaker 1: pin that's like, how do you It's like a like
Speaker 1: an old course green that really feels like a green
Speaker 1: at the old course. Done it at the front there
Speaker 1: and it's like trying to hit a five on on
Speaker 1: top of a voxwagon beetle and like good luck with that.
Speaker 1: It's almost like they take birdie out of play there.
Speaker 1: It's it's not it's just not a birdie hole. Get lucky, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got it's it's just survived, get up somehow, finagle
Speaker 1: apart and get to hell. It's funny. It plays a
Speaker 1: lot more. I mean when I when I first played
Speaker 1: it in the practice rounds and stuff, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: when I first got here, I'm like, there's just no chance,
Speaker 1: Like how do you even hit this green? But like
Speaker 1: you can, you know, for some reason in the tournament
Speaker 1: you just I don't know. It isn't that what's great?
Speaker 1: You hit past hopefully and like passed and left of
Speaker 1: it on the grain that a little bit somewhere in
Speaker 1: the middle and part of it up in two parts,
Speaker 1: and try to get out of it. It's some you
Speaker 1: don't miss the grain. You don't miss it short. You
Speaker 1: miss it short once, and then you don't miss it
Speaker 1: short again because short you're not making part, you know,
Speaker 1: and then riot's awful. Um, you just do the best
Speaker 1: you can there. That's just one of those. It's a
Speaker 1: bit like eleven. You just if you could pencil in
Speaker 1: four or four times, you would run away as fast
Speaker 1: as you could. I think this was so great about
Speaker 1: Augusta is almost every hole is like a half part
Speaker 1: hole they're talking about good party chances are really really
Speaker 1: hard part There's there's very few kind of just easy
Speaker 1: parts like either either you just stay out there and
Speaker 1: you get a great shot and you have a chance
Speaker 1: at three, or you're gonna get your teeth kicked in
Speaker 1: and you'd love to make a boat and you're like that.
Speaker 1: To me, it makes it such a fun tournament course
Speaker 1: because there's a wide dispursed of outcomes on every single swing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it demands respect so often, you know, brunning back
Speaker 1: decisions that you just have to respect what can happen,
Speaker 1: you know, you just have to do. And we don't
Speaker 1: have that very often anymore. We just not anymore ever, Really,
Speaker 1: you just don't have that. Look look to your point,
Speaker 1: at one is basically apart four and a half. Two
Speaker 1: is apart four and a half. Three is a part
Speaker 1: three and a half. Four is a part three and
Speaker 1: a half, and five is apart four and a half.
Speaker 1: In a way, you don't get to a true par
Speaker 1: until really six, which is a part three. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: then if you go along at six, yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: be dead there. Yeah, but you h but in terms
Speaker 1: of lengthen and it's it's a true part three. And
Speaker 1: then you get into a couple of parts. You know,
Speaker 1: seven I would call a true four. Yeah, it's got hard.
Speaker 1: It's all about pins. I mean, look, six is an
Speaker 1: unbelievable hole that pins down the bottom. It's a birdie
Speaker 1: hall depends at the top. It's just trying to make pie.
Speaker 1: You know, that top tier that they usually have twice.
Speaker 1: It's just people don't know how small that is. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're hitting sixes and seven ones under this like it's
Speaker 1: a table, it's a dawning table, and if you miss it,
Speaker 1: you've got a hundred foot or you're off the right
Speaker 1: inside of green like, but you can't not go for
Speaker 1: it because who wants the hundred foot? So it forces
Speaker 1: you to hit a shot that's just outrageously hard, you know,
Speaker 1: And the weeks you're playing, well you do. You know,
Speaker 1: it's funny how often you do hit it up the
Speaker 1: top of that six hole. We must be better than
Speaker 1: we think, you know. That's that's definitely true. That was
Speaker 1: a foulder is and he always said, I knew my
Speaker 1: iron game was down and if I could hit a
Speaker 1: shot on six the back flag. Yeah, you always talked
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, so six is great. It changes from
Speaker 1: an easy hole with the two low pins to the
Speaker 1: two high pins to being really really hard sevens the
Speaker 1: same seven with the pins on the left on the
Speaker 1: high bit. It's so hard, that whole long, narrow ball
Speaker 1: below your feet. Second shot sort of almost it feels
Speaker 1: like you're almost downslopy to hit it up, you know,
Speaker 1: and the ball's landing, say flat on a shallow green.
Speaker 1: Then it doesn't. You can't just have it hit and
Speaker 1: stop there because it's uphill. But then you get that
Speaker 1: pin on the right and it's like you try to
Speaker 1: hold your second shot rot It's like sixteen told when
Speaker 1: you start getting the ball funneling, yeah, front right to
Speaker 1: like that becomes the fun factor Absolutelyeah, it's just total fun,
Speaker 1: you know, and you're actually realistically thinking I could actually
Speaker 1: hold this if I get it in this gat on
Speaker 1: the right instil crane um seven again. I don't know
Speaker 1: where I'll write them all at the end. Well, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of. I love this kind of the half
Speaker 1: part thing because counting the number of half parts is
Speaker 1: also a great indicator of just how I think how
Speaker 1: great the golf course can be and how how much
Speaker 1: fun it is, and why this holds up as as
Speaker 1: a reoccurring major championship venue in which they can dictate
Speaker 1: what happens based on pin placements and just tempt you'd
Speaker 1: call a part four and a half just like you
Speaker 1: would five. What is a hundred yards longer? Right? Like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not really far. I mean I always found it
Speaker 1: really long. Again, we watched that they show Dustin and
Speaker 1: Rory and Phil and Tiger and that play that all,
Speaker 1: but like very few of the field are hitting on
Speaker 1: that green into regularly. Yeah, that's a proper part fire.
Speaker 1: Most people bail their seconds at the right. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean when guys are winning, they're hitting it on the
Speaker 1: grain and stuff. But there's a lot of years where
Speaker 1: everybody's would you would play four four third shots from
Speaker 1: fifty yards from the green? Um, it's pretty long. The
Speaker 1: bunker is carrying the bunkers like the domain of only
Speaker 1: the very very very freakishly long. You know, it's a
Speaker 1: proper You gotta hit a property shot and you've got
Speaker 1: a really good second shot on that green, and the
Speaker 1: green is tricky. That's my least favorite green here, I
Speaker 1: would say, um, you'd probably get that out of most.
Speaker 1: I just don't like the mounds, the mounds, the amount
Speaker 1: of character. Um, but I had a few cracks of
Speaker 1: that over the years. Eight. Have you seen the photo
Speaker 1: of Clifford Roberts's vision for Yeah, it's bizarre and it's
Speaker 1: really weird. Yeah, it's better with the malad. He didn't
Speaker 1: like the mounds. He took the mounds of right, and
Speaker 1: the whole green was raised up about a like edges
Speaker 1: and it's just like a little it's like the silver
Speaker 1: was like a chalk outline of an actual green. It's
Speaker 1: it's a strange it's a strange one. Yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: the club chairman should not be allowed to be there.
Speaker 1: It kind of works like they do it a lot here.
Speaker 1: Which breaks the rules is that they open it up
Speaker 1: from the outside of a dog leg. I mean normally
Speaker 1: all the best holes you've got to challenge the inside
Speaker 1: of the dog leg to get the good angle to
Speaker 1: the green. Right, think thirteen, if thirteens of perfect dollar,
Speaker 1: you're the clothes you get into the creek, the easier
Speaker 1: your second chop done. Whereas eight, it's almost the further
Speaker 1: right you go on your second shot, the better you are,
Speaker 1: you know, which is because you just hit and taken
Speaker 1: out of plane. What you just you don't have to
Speaker 1: hit it near the trees like traditionally, like you're a
Speaker 1: traditional like architect purist. One oh one would be you
Speaker 1: hug the cornice, the easy pitch shot, you know, but
Speaker 1: there you actually you go wide, you know. It's the
Speaker 1: same as nine. Nine is interesting again because nine opens
Speaker 1: from the right the outside, and normally Mackenzie would have
Speaker 1: opened it up from the inside. But that's using this
Speaker 1: that's the extra dimension of using side slope that they
Speaker 1: use here. It can be is the wrong way. It's
Speaker 1: high on the left, low on the right, and you
Speaker 1: it's a draw. It's a green that you have to
Speaker 1: draw it into from the downslope ball below your feet.
Speaker 1: Let's take Olympic Club a little bit, just a bit
Speaker 1: like thirteen and asks you to hit up fade into
Speaker 1: the green with the ball above your feet, which is
Speaker 1: completely counter to what you want to do. Nine asks
Speaker 1: you hit to draw from the ball below your feet
Speaker 1: down slope, which is all it is is low cut,
Speaker 1: low cut, and that shot deserves a high draw, which
Speaker 1: is why this course finds the best and it's less
Speaker 1: about form and more about pedigree because it's just only
Speaker 1: there's only a few people who can do that for
Speaker 1: seventy two holes. Now you'd call it true part four.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely quality, you're gonnahit a really good T shirt.
Speaker 1: It makes you think you've got to hit a really
Speaker 1: strong draw down there, but you really you actually want
Speaker 1: to smash it down the right hand side to open
Speaker 1: up the grain a little bit. It's funny. First five
Speaker 1: holes could be considered half parts of some sort. In
Speaker 1: the next four our true part of fours. And then
Speaker 1: you go to the back nine. Yeah, I mean the
Speaker 1: ninth hole to me, the volatility the ninth hole, Yeah,
Speaker 1: easy to make a five there for sure? Yea three?
Speaker 1: Um sure, and then look tends up four and a
Speaker 1: half ten and eleven and four halfs for four and
Speaker 1: a half to night maintain is if eleven is not
Speaker 1: the hotest all of course ten is. So you start
Speaker 1: the back nine with just complete brutality and twelve to
Speaker 1: be fair, you can put that in there because I
Speaker 1: mean that's a path three and it's the path three
Speaker 1: that's got a two to eight or not. It's got everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: um four tens and four fifteens and four and a
Speaker 1: half sixteen to three fourteen fourteens of four fifteens, A
Speaker 1: four and a half sixteen is a three, seventeen is
Speaker 1: a four eighteen is a yeah. I mean like sixteen again,
Speaker 1: it's all pin position because sixteen the two high pins,
Speaker 1: it's the hardest part of the course. Almost the two
Speaker 1: low pins hard to not make birdie. Sometimes you know
Speaker 1: which is which is Again is a gene because sixteen
Speaker 1: one day is the hardest hold the course. The next
Speaker 1: days easyt holo course just because you've moved the pint. Wow.
Speaker 1: I mean it's just incredible and and same six. I
Speaker 1: mean the volatility of the par five. I mean every
Speaker 1: every every pin position, every pin position can dictate the
Speaker 1: difference of a of a full shot one way or
Speaker 1: the other. I think different that is from like Pebble Beach,
Speaker 1: where you just want to the middle of green and
Speaker 1: you'll have a fifteen foot on pretty much every hole.
Speaker 1: I mean there's some really tough pins, like fourteen front
Speaker 1: right is a lot different than back left. But you
Speaker 1: don't talk about the pins of Pebble nearly the same
Speaker 1: way because it just doesn't change the course. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: the drama and the stress of pebble is before you
Speaker 1: get to the grain. Generally here it's really when you
Speaker 1: get to the whole hall is gear about where's the
Speaker 1: pin and how do I get to that pin? The
Speaker 1: best essentially identifying nine half pars at August National, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, is what would make it. And you could
Speaker 1: probably do the same at Royal Melbourne. But why it's
Speaker 1: such an amazing major championship venue and why it's so
Speaker 1: much fun to not only watch but also seemingly to play,
Speaker 1: shows you the irrelevance of power a little bit too like, right,
Speaker 1: um the minutes we all like it to measure her
Speaker 1: on score during their round, right, but it really doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: right um. And it's six days of great hole. It
Speaker 1: was a thirteen. They're all great holes depending on whether
Speaker 1: they're heart I mean six days of great hole when
Speaker 1: it's playing really hard, and six days of great one's
Speaker 1: playing really easy. Like, it's got nothing to do with
Speaker 1: how hard it plays, how good it is this course,
Speaker 1: whether the whole is set up as easy as it
Speaker 1: can or as hard as it can, it doesn't make
Speaker 1: it any less good or bad. It's just great all
Speaker 1: the way. What would be your ultimate sick this whole routing?
Speaker 1: If you could to identify six holes from Augusta National
Speaker 1: that you would extract and put in your backyard and
Speaker 1: that you could play for the rest of your life,
Speaker 1: what six holes would those be? Thirteen would be the
Speaker 1: show piece. I think thirteen is the perfect golf hole.
Speaker 1: Thirteen you just play that six times. I think thirteen
Speaker 1: is great. Fifteen is fun. Um, I mean it's mostly
Speaker 1: the back nine. I think ten, I really I think
Speaker 1: ten's a great hole. Um. Twelve would you really want
Speaker 1: to play that every day? Yeah? Sixteen? Yeah, sixteen is fun?
Speaker 1: I mean how fun is sixteen? I would put out
Speaker 1: Sixteen is a better hole than twelve. Twelve is maybe
Speaker 1: more interesting, you know, but sixteens from a player's perspective,
Speaker 1: fun to play. So you mentioned the chipping competitions. You
Speaker 1: never in the sixteenth grade with your boys, ten, thirteen, fifteen, sixteen,
Speaker 1: you've got room for two more and you're back two more. Well,
Speaker 1: I love the seventeenth green. We will play that loop.
Speaker 1: We'll go, we'll stay on that side of the course.
Speaker 1: Seventeen and I put one in there because I think
Speaker 1: one is great. Wow, that's my only critique of Augusta
Speaker 1: National is eighteens to me kind of a mediocre hole
Speaker 1: and even seventeen is super awkward. That drive and it
Speaker 1: is a cool green, but um, I don't know. The
Speaker 1: fitniest is always a little let down. You guys walk
Speaker 1: up the sixteenth green as well as like funds over
Speaker 1: and now it's just about green. That's like, that's close
Speaker 1: to one of my favorite greens in the world. It's wild,
Speaker 1: but it's also it's so hard to birdie, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess you've had your birdie chances, so now it's
Speaker 1: just about hanging on. But eighteen eighteen, I don't know
Speaker 1: they used to As I said, they used the slope,
Speaker 1: like no course that we play uses side slope, Like
Speaker 1: this play starts. You know you've got you're on an
Speaker 1: up slope on one, very often down slope on two,
Speaker 1: So I'd slope on three, so I'd slip on five
Speaker 1: a little bit, seven down slope, eight upslope, nine down
Speaker 1: slope ball believe feet, ten down slope, ball above your feet,
Speaker 1: eleven side slope, thirteen massive ball above your feet, fourteen
Speaker 1: ball below your feet. Like it's all day, like an
Speaker 1: eighteen is the first one where you're just massive upslope
Speaker 1: and it's a hard swing. I mean those old times
Speaker 1: when you see guys like miss the second way right
Speaker 1: on eighteen, Greend. That's what happens when when you're on
Speaker 1: a massive upslope and you haven't had one all day
Speaker 1: and they present you, well, you've got to get into
Speaker 1: the clubhouse. You've got to hit the ball from a
Speaker 1: massive upside. It's hard, like It's that's why it finds
Speaker 1: the best players, because that's as I said, it's less
Speaker 1: form and more pedigree like the one the guys those
Speaker 1: Sergios or Dustin's aroories of Tigers, or those guys who
Speaker 1: have every shot any day of the week. This finds them,
Speaker 1: you know, like they have an opportunity to show what
Speaker 1: they've got here, which whereas not in a normal week
Speaker 1: when they're flat lies and relatively simple puts and it's
Speaker 1: just basic golf. They can't show everyone why they are
Speaker 1: who they are. But this course is the templight for
Speaker 1: them to like, you have to be them or you
Speaker 1: can't do it, you know. That's why it's so great.
Speaker 1: I love that I had an idea once where you
Speaker 1: would play the tenth hole, then then be underground tunnel
Speaker 1: of the high speed train would take you to the
Speaker 1: sixteen t You play sixteen, seventeen eighteen, then you'd go
Speaker 1: over to eleven, and then you'd finish. The finishing stretch
Speaker 1: of the tournament would be eleven, twelve, fifteen. That's how
Speaker 1: the Masters would end. I think it's a genius just
Speaker 1: rejigger the back nine, but keep the same hole. They've
Speaker 1: already built the tunnel. The tunnel is probably already there.
Speaker 1: Like how how it curl would that be? I mean
Speaker 1: you get, you get, you get seventeen and eighteen now
Speaker 1: of the way early, and then it's amen corner and
Speaker 1: then you you end on the fifteen. Imagine the Masters
Speaker 1: is at state, you're staying on the fifteen fairway. But
Speaker 1: I mean going back to go next. A lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of golfers played as match play and they
Speaker 1: climactic finish was look at look at Cyprus with the
Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen finished there, like you wish you could end
Speaker 1: on and some matches. Yeah, I'm just saying I think
Speaker 1: that that, you know, Chairman Yang or chairman Race should
Speaker 1: look into that. When Ridley's gone and do you've re
Speaker 1: shuffled the holes in the back now it could be epic.
Speaker 1: That's just all I know is like we don't know
Speaker 1: the answers, and they always seem to know the answers.
Speaker 1: This is the best tournament in the world by a
Speaker 1: long way every year. It's exciting like that they know
Speaker 1: what they're doing, Like I wouldn't pick it. I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't upset the apple cart here because they know
Speaker 1: what they're doing. Like the sun sets on Sunday and
Speaker 1: they finished the tournament and the winter wins and that's
Speaker 1: They've got this thing whole. So it worked out. That's
Speaker 1: the biggest flaw on my plan is that you'd end
Speaker 1: down at fifteen is a long haul back. But I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, don't do it for me as finishing holes.
Speaker 1: So they flipped the nine that first year. In the
Speaker 1: first year they had the nine is the other way?
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that would have been a different but
Speaker 1: the Masters would be a different story. Detail off on
Speaker 1: ten and finished on nine. Right, you're you're routing by
Speaker 1: the way one ten opening up with two Part four
Speaker 1: is too tough? Part fifteen, Well yeah, but I mean
Speaker 1: it would be kind of cool disorder one ten, thirteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen.
Speaker 1: I fun, fun golf course. It wouldn't. It's been a
Speaker 1: little volatility and scoring where the pins are. Mike, this
Speaker 1: is what's so great about this term is you know,
Speaker 1: is Oakmont maybe a better golf course in August National.
Speaker 1: You made the argument, but no one's sitting around debating
Speaker 1: every hole. Most golfens couldn't even name any holes at Oakmont,
Speaker 1: right Like Pebble, people know the holes, but there's obviously
Speaker 1: some weak ones. Like I guess, it's just so fun
Speaker 1: to talk about these things because even the person at
Speaker 1: home who who has not playing the Masters like you have,
Speaker 1: or covered twenty seven them like I have, or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, they have an opinion. They're they're invested in
Speaker 1: the golf course, and they know we're talking about in
Speaker 1: a way that you can do on any other course
Speaker 1: in the world. I'm just hearing him talk talk recounting
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven and all the different names who were
Speaker 1: in and all that was happening, and the birdies were happening,
Speaker 1: you with Freddie and Tiger in front, and things were
Speaker 1: happening like that's all we hope that's all we can
Speaker 1: ever hope and pray for is on Sunday, after all
Speaker 1: of what we've waited for the start of the major
Speaker 1: championship season is to have eight or ten guys in
Speaker 1: the mix those last nine holes and just watch the
Speaker 1: fireworks happen. It's so much fun and it's the best.
Speaker 1: That's that, like, you know, hearing you talk about that,
Speaker 1: being in it, immersed in seeing the scoreboards and the
Speaker 1: roars and the Bertie roars versus the Eagle roars and
Speaker 1: then the other roars on the other board. I mean,
Speaker 1: seeing it and being there as a as a as
Speaker 1: a patron is amazing. I can only imagine what it's
Speaker 1: like as a player. I'm actually getting excited about the
Speaker 1: Master's just sitting there talking about I'm so excited. My
Speaker 1: favorite spot was to sit on fifteen left to the green,
Speaker 1: watch those approach shots, watch them then hit their shots
Speaker 1: on sixteen. See the board in front of the green
Speaker 1: at fifteen. I would camp out there for you know,
Speaker 1: I would. I would skip at least two peas and
Speaker 1: just I would. I would. I would stretch the bladder
Speaker 1: as long as I can. That top row that that
Speaker 1: grunts down so good yeah, Um, what what what are
Speaker 1: veterans on the right that will never know? Never what
Speaker 1: is it? What is it like as a player to
Speaker 1: after all that you've experienced, immersed in gallery and stuff,
Speaker 1: to walk you know that amen corner where they keep
Speaker 1: everybody off to side. Does that actually feel like you're
Speaker 1: walking into like a painting? I don't know if f
Speaker 1: fls painting, but it is certainly the best ten minutes
Speaker 1: of your year as a professional golfer when you leave
Speaker 1: the people, not that we love the people and playing
Speaker 1: in front of people and you guys, journalists, fans, your family, everybody.
Speaker 1: It's you and your caddy and one little CBS guy
Speaker 1: on a on a on a chair back there making
Speaker 1: to the camera doesn't break. Um, it's just the best.
Speaker 1: You're Like, where else in any sport can you be
Speaker 1: two hundred yards from the nearest spectator, nearest person basically,
Speaker 1: and you're in the middle of the biggest tournament there
Speaker 1: is like, it's not it's so it's such a cool
Speaker 1: little moment from when you leave the twelve tea so
Speaker 1: when you sort of get to your drive on thirteen,
Speaker 1: it's just you, you and you're playing partners, just playing golf,
Speaker 1: like in the biggest tournament in the world and nobody's
Speaker 1: within two hundred yards of you. It's just the best.
Speaker 1: It is such third three of the Masters is the
Speaker 1: best place in progolf. I've heard of players talking about
Speaker 1: if you make a part on twelve. The cool thing
Speaker 1: is it takes a secretary for the wall of sound.
Speaker 1: You know it does. It's just oh yeah, it's you
Speaker 1: get visceral evidence of the speed of sound because you
Speaker 1: make it. They see it go in and you see movement,
Speaker 1: but there's two seconds until you actually start hearing the
Speaker 1: claps of stuff it starts. It's really cool. I'm very
Speaker 1: used to having a long pauses between and having a clap.
Speaker 1: So sometimes they never go their knowledgeable though they maybe.
Speaker 1: I mean, people talk about the open um and that
Speaker 1: is special. They know what they're watching. But here they
Speaker 1: know what they're watching. Because I would have said majority
Speaker 1: of the patrons the Thursday to Sunday people Monday to
Speaker 1: Wednesday is different. I think here it's a different crowd
Speaker 1: Thursday to Sunday. Is they know what they're watching and
Speaker 1: they know their course. Most of them have been here
Speaker 1: a lot. They're fantastic people to play in front of
Speaker 1: and you know, the measure I think for a player
Speaker 1: is like a blind green. So you hit it up
Speaker 1: onto seven here, or you hit it over the hill,
Speaker 1: or there's a green that you can't see where it
Speaker 1: is fourteen or something here. You can tell within a
Speaker 1: foot how close the ball is just by how they reacted,
Speaker 1: whether it's two ft it's spun back, whether it lipped out,
Speaker 1: whether it's twenty ft, whether it's an okay shot, whether
Speaker 1: it's a really good shot. You can basically guess with
Speaker 1: an foot, yeah, that's probably eight ft based on based
Speaker 1: on how they react. And most of them as you can't.
Speaker 1: You've got no clue because they're just there. One timers, right,
Speaker 1: Tory or Phoenix or Hilton out or whatever. They're not
Speaker 1: really generally, they're just going to go to a golf
Speaker 1: tour them and they don't know the golf course here.
Speaker 1: They know the course, they know what the good shots are,
Speaker 1: they know what the bad shots are. They appreciate a
Speaker 1: quality wedge shot to thirty if that's what's required. They
Speaker 1: appreciate that because they know that's what he had to
Speaker 1: do there, because he's going to make double if he
Speaker 1: went at the pin it's a really nice place to
Speaker 1: play from a fan patron perspectives, since they know what
Speaker 1: they're watching, smart and reverent field, smart and reverent, you know,
Speaker 1: a fan base smart and reverend, architecture and thoughtful, you know,
Speaker 1: input into the strategy equals. Is this the greatest by
Speaker 1: a long stretch? This is the best tournament in professional golf,
Speaker 1: by any golf I mean, and it's I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jones arguably the best golf brain ever. Maybe
Speaker 1: that at least put his feelings down on paper and tape,
Speaker 1: I mean, a bit of a genius. I don't know.
Speaker 1: They it's a product tournament. They put everything into making
Speaker 1: it the best one to play, the best one to
Speaker 1: go to, and the best one to watch on TV. Right,
Speaker 1: there's the three points that they hit, and that's the points.
Speaker 1: They don't care about marketing, all the stuff on the outside.
Speaker 1: That's secondary to them is how good can we make
Speaker 1: this to play? How good we make this to visit?
Speaker 1: And how good can we make this to watch on TV?
Speaker 1: And they nail that, and that the reward is that
Speaker 1: it's the best. I think most other tournaments there's a
Speaker 1: bit more of a skew towards marketing and like quick
Speaker 1: sale and let's make some money this year, and let's
Speaker 1: put a big stand here and we'll put some signs
Speaker 1: over here. They had zero compromise here. It's all about
Speaker 1: how good and pure can we make this and keep this?
Speaker 1: And they do it every year. And when you focus
Speaker 1: on your product, your product gets better. You know, it's
Speaker 1: the best tournament by my I love it. Well, we
Speaker 1: we have you all week. You know where where this
Speaker 1: is going to be a reoccurring thing around major championships.
Speaker 1: Being able to have access to your thought and and
Speaker 1: perspective and experiences, and it's it's very special obviously just
Speaker 1: to sit here and listen. But thanks for your thanks
Speaker 1: for your time, and thanks for being part of the
Speaker 1: perfect collective. I love it to describe fun. I'm talking
Speaker 1: about what I like to talk about. We love listening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, good stuff. Put another log on the fire.
Speaker 1: Nobody here is give the time