1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Because I definitely read a lot of essays and heard 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: a lot of arguments in college, specifically, you know, predominantly, 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: but not exclusively. I guess that these more smaller scale things, 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: individual action, volunteering in your community, changing your personal behavior, 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: those were ineffectual at best, they were a harmful distraction 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: at worst, like they would distract from the attention and 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: focus that we needed to be doing to push for 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: the bigger things. And I and I and I think 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people, we were. 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: Persuaded welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney, 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: inner City Memphis. And the last part y'all, somehow some 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: people showed up and filmed us, and it led to 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: an oscar for the film about our team. That movie's 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: called un Defeated. I believe our country's problems are never 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: and nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 2: on shows like CNN and Fox, but rather an army 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: of normal folks, people like us, just you and me 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: saying you know what. There's a need over here, and 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: I can help. That's what Rachel Cohen has done. You 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: just heard how she was jaded about volunteering, and then 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: she wrote a remarkable article for Fox about her transformation 25 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: into a regular volunteer and donor that we're about to 26 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: dive deep into. It's titled Why I Changed my mind 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: about volunteering. My generation was taught to change the system. 28 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: That lesson came at a cost. Guys, this is one 29 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: of my favorite conversations. I cannot wait for you to 30 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 2: meet Rachel right after these brief messages from our general sponsors, 31 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: Rachel Cohen, Welcome to Memphis. 32 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 3: Thank you for inviting me. 33 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: DC, right, d So not long ago we had the 34 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 2: tragedy at the airport and I did you fly out 35 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: a Dallas or Reagan? 36 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: I flew out of Reagan today and it was actually 37 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: I did text my fiance saying, wow, I haven't felt 38 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: flying anxiety in a while, and now I feel a 39 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: little nervous. There was, you know, the layoffs at the 40 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: Aviation Agency too, and yeah, it's kind of weird. 41 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: Two of my four kids live and work in DC. Yeah, 42 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 2: and flying in and out of DC as all of 43 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: a sudden become everything delayed, half the things canceled. It's 44 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: a mess over there. 45 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: It was it was smooth, you know, getting on and 46 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: leaving today, but I was just like, I really hope that. 47 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: I don't like to think about there being a possibility 48 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: of an error, you know. 49 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, interestingly, Reagan was actually designed for commuter aircraft 50 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: and it's the shortest runway in the United States that 51 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: jumbo jets land on, which is why they built Dulles 52 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: for big travel. And Reagan was supposed to be actually 53 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: commuter travel and it's switched. It was designed to handle 54 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: max fifteen meion passengers annually. It holds twenty five now, 55 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: So people need to start going to dullas. 56 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 3: I think going to Dulas is horrible. 57 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: I know, it's the drive right so far there it 58 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: is so well, I'm glad you're here. 59 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 3: I'm I'm glad I'm here, and I'm glad I flew 60 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: from Reagan here. 61 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: Today is another one of our lunch and listen episodes. 62 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: And so hi everybody, thanks for having lunch and listening, 63 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: although none of you were eating, so I don't know. 64 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: This is more like a listen at lunchtime. Oh there 65 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: are a couple of people with lij Well, thanks, you 66 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: have a small audience for you. We'll do another lunch 67 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:18,239 Speaker 2: and listen in April with Michael Arkush, who just wrote 68 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 2: a book that's coming out, an argument of the world's 69 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: most influential one hundred golfers. It's gonna be really interesting. 70 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: He wrote a bunch of cool books. And today you 71 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: get to see Memphis Listening Lab. Pretty cool spot. 72 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 3: Huh so cool? 73 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know this was once the Sears? Did 74 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: they tell you? 75 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: Alex was telling me earlier and when I got here, 76 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: I said, this reminds me of Pond Street Market in Atlanta, 77 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: and then. 78 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 3: He said that was also a series. 79 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because the Crossdown Concourse is exactly that, 80 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: and Memphis Listening Lab is good enough to allow us 81 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 2: to have some things here. So Vox explains the news 82 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 2: and world around you by making complex topics easier to understand. 83 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: Vox tries to candidly shepherd audiences through politics and policy, 84 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: business and pop culture, food science, and everything else that matters. 85 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: Launched in twenty fourteen, the citamassed more than five million 86 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: unique visitors in just over one month. Today it reaches 87 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: more than ten times that audience through vox dot com. 88 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: It's award winning videos, and it's on Tom Trade podcast. 89 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 2: I think I think Vox has like one hundred and 90 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: forty five million total monthly content views. Anybody who serves 91 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: around on their phone knows what Vox is because it's 92 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 2: yellow and black, I think, right, yes, that's the colors. 93 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: And Rachel is a policy correspondent for Vox covering social policy. 94 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 2: Social policy. That's uh, that could get sticky, can't it? 95 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: It definitely can. 96 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: I like to say it's it's everything, except I don't 97 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: really do the climate policy stuff. We have another team 98 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: for that, and I we have someone else who handles healthcare. 99 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 3: But there's a. 100 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: It's you know, schools, housing, families, education and abortion, abortion rates. 101 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've been doing this for more than a decade, right, 102 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 2: So that's who Rachel is professionally. Who's Rachel grown up? 103 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: Where'd you come from? What's your what's your world? It's important? 104 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: I think it's germane to what we're going to get 105 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: to talk about, which is simply an article you wrote 106 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: that has spoken to a lot of us in my world. 107 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: But when you hear you work for Vox and you're 108 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 2: in DC and you're a writer and you talk about 109 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: policy issues like housing, schools, homelessness, childcare, and abortion. One, 110 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: not having met you, might categorize you. And I'm curious 111 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: as to just kind of a brief where you came 112 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: from and how you came up and what led to 113 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: this work for you. 114 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm so glad that you invited me here 115 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: to talk. And you know, I definitely know what you mean. 116 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: And this article, I know that we're going to be 117 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: talking about a lot, was definitely different from what I 118 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: typically do for Vox, which is more, you know, covering 119 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: specific news, you know, development and trying to unpack them. 120 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 3: And this. 121 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: Article essay was more of a sort of a personal 122 00:07:55,200 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: piece that was based on work I've done for Box 123 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: that made me, you know, thinking about my personal life. 124 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to say that. 125 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 3: So. 126 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: I I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I have a sister, 127 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: two parents. I went to public school, I was raised you. 128 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 3: Know, I'm Jewish. I went to college in Baltimore. I 129 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 3: love Baltimore. Where in Baltimore and John Hopkins in Baltimore. 130 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, you can say JOHNS Hopkins, it's. 131 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 3: You know, Oh well, I do love like. 132 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: I stayed in Baltimore after I graduated because I really 133 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: do love the city. I studied history and sociology there, 134 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: so it was like very sort of focused on on 135 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: the city. I interned at the Baltimore Sun, which is awesome, 136 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: and then I moved to DC and I have been 137 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: there about ten years. It's weird thinking like we're on 138 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: our on the you know, fourth president in my time 139 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: like that, I'm like, wow, going fast, and yeah, that's 140 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: sort of high altitude. 141 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 3: And I you know, I got into journalism. 142 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: I didn't think I was going to become a journalist 143 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: because it sort of felt like I love journalism. I 144 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: did my high school paper and I would do a 145 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: little on college stuff, but it felt like, oh, people 146 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: who become journalist or it's like saying you want to 147 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: become an actress. It's just so hard to do. So 148 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: there were always a lot of things that I have 149 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: been interested in, and I love journalism, but I think 150 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: it's a healthy mindset. I try to hold on that, Like, 151 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, the industry is changing so fast so much. 152 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: There's so many different political and economic threats to journalism 153 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: today that I think, should I not be able to 154 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: do this work. 155 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 3: In five or ten years or whatever. 156 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: There's so many other things I also, like think would 157 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: be interesting and meaningful, but hopefully I can. Hopefully, I will, 158 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, be back here in my current job in 159 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: ten years. 160 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: So really stupid people go to Johns Hopkins and your 161 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: degrees are in so theology and history and you end 162 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: up in journalism talking about cultural issues. That's interesting. I mean, 163 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: maybe you didn't major in journalism, but talking about cultural 164 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 2: issues having studied both history, which is a huge precursor 165 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: toward whatever social issues you're engaged in, and then the 166 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 2: sociology of social issues, I think that's an interesting perspective 167 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: to write from. 168 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: I thank you, and I agree I think what I 169 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 1: have tried to do in my work, and I think 170 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: Vox fortunately. 171 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 3: Is a place it's very very open to this. 172 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: Not all mainstream outlets are, but I'm very committed to 173 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: bringing research and history into the articles to try to 174 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: help people think about things from different lenses. 175 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 3: And yeah, I think there are just a lot of 176 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 3: there's a lot of really great outlets that either. 177 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: Don't have the constraints or you know, incentives for that. 178 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: But Vox is really open to research and researchers and 179 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. 180 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 3: So it's been good. 181 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: OK. So that's where Rachel comes from. That's what she does. 182 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: Here's why she's here. Evan Feinberg wrote on his LinkedIn 183 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: about an article you wrote. Evan Finberg is the He's 184 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 2: a director right chairman of the Stand Together Foundation. Now, 185 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: for those of everybody who don't know what the Stand 186 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: Together Foundation is is a foundation supported by the Koch Brothers, 187 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: among others, who have poured tons of financial resources into 188 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: When you hear Cooke brothers, I know what people think 189 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 2: when they hear that, but they really pour resources into 190 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 2: a non political effort. And I mean we're talking millions 191 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 2: and millions and millions of dollars to support philanthropic projects 192 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 2: across the United States that work and are scalable. 193 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: I want to also add, you know, in DC, the 194 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: Koch Brothers have funded a lot of criminal justice policy 195 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: work reform. 196 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of. 197 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: Sort of The Koch Brothers got smoked by a lot 198 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: in the left wing media years ago because of some 199 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: of the politicians they supported. What the truth is, the 200 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 2: Koch Brothers have been supportive of issues that are important 201 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 2: to people on both sides of the are candidly and 202 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: as such, stand Together is just that stand together. We 203 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: talk about on an army normal folks and shop talk 204 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: all the time that we do not care if you 205 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 2: are a Christian, Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, gay, straight, white black? 206 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 2: What are some progressive conservative, Republican democrat. I'm trying to 207 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 2: come up with all these little taglines we seem to 208 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: collect ourselves in. We don't care. Sorry, yeah, yeah, we 209 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 2: don't care. But if you are engaged in an activity 210 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 2: that is helping elevate or serve someone who is not 211 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: as blessed as you in your community, regardless of any 212 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: of those taglines about you, I can celebrate that about 213 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: you and you can celebrate the same about me. And 214 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 2: then it interesting, if we have this foundation of respect 215 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: from that level of service in our communities, how those 216 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: taglines seem to disintegrate and not matter so much anymore. 217 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: That's really we talk about that all the time. That's 218 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: really germane to our entire movement that is this podcast. 219 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 2: So Evan Feinberg, we pay it because he's a guy 220 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: that's really engaged in this across the entire United States. 221 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: He wrote on LinkedIn only thirty three percent of Americans 222 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 2: are involved in their community at the level that they 223 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 2: want to be. To me, that shows we're not fighting 224 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: the battle of whether people want to be involved. People 225 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: want to contribute, they just don't know how. That's why 226 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: this recent Vox article, your article, Rachel stuck with me. 227 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 2: It highlights something bigger that's happening across the country. More 228 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 2: and more people from different backgrounds and beliefs are rediscovering 229 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: the power of community. The author's experience beautifully captures it. 230 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: As soon as she starts getting involved, she feels fulfilled. 231 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: Then she sees her efforts are actually making a difference. 232 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: This shift in perspective is powerful. It's easy to think 233 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: that the challenges we face are so big the change 234 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: requires concentrated, top down power or massively engineered political campaigns. 235 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: But what if it's more personal than that. It's about small, 236 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: meaningful actions. These efforts don't just add up in some 237 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: abstract sense. They actually build the foundation of something bigger. 238 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: That's how communities grow stronger, how trust builds, and how 239 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: we solve problems together. Imagine if everyone had the same 240 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: aha moment, if everyone rediscovered that their actions matter, what 241 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 2: could our communities look like? Then when I read what 242 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: Evan wrote about your article, all I hear is it 243 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: echoed in a few different words the things we talk 244 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: about every single week. Sure, we're trying to produce a 245 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: show to be entertaining and hopefully you cry and you're 246 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: enlightened and you're informed and it's interesting, but your words. 247 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: The higher altitude view of all of that is, what 248 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: if we can inspire people to simply engage, how much 249 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: more fulfilled their own lives will be, and what could 250 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: our community look like if from that basis we grew 251 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: together to serve And now a few messages from our 252 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: gender sponsors. But first, I hope you'll consider signing up 253 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: to join the army at normal folks dot us. By 254 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 2: signing up, you'll receive a weekly email with short episode 255 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: summaries in case you happen to miss an episode or 256 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: if you prefer reading about our incredible guests, we'll be 257 00:16:48,880 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: right back. So when we read that, we thought, all right, well, 258 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: who's this Rachel Cohen chick on Fox. Let's read what 259 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: she has to write? So, eh, what's that? 260 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 3: And read you? 261 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I read it, and I'm like, I 262 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: love it because one of the things stand Together talks 263 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 2: about all the time, which I believe in is instead 264 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: of these massive, top down programs, the real work is 265 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 2: done from the bottom up. We talk about always not 266 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: having to be part of some massive NGO or massive 267 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 2: organization to have incredible effect. In every week we bring 268 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 2: guests on the show to illustrate that very point from 269 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 2: all walks of life. It feels like to me reading 270 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: your article that you yourself had an interesting awakening is 271 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 2: the word I use, And I don't want to put 272 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: words in your mouth, but I would just like you 273 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 2: to take us through the article, what your personal journey 274 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: was actually in the article, and what you learned about 275 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: service and philanthropy and this thirty three percent of Americans. 276 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 2: Only thirty percent of Americans are involved, but all want 277 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 2: to be. And what you learned, maybe even about yourself 278 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: and how that can inspire this army of normal folks. 279 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: Awesome. I'm so glad to talk about this. Maybe I'll 280 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: start and you can interject or steer me. If I 281 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 1: am going. 282 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 2: And you're much smarter than me, just go. If I 283 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: don't understand something in a row, you're. 284 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 3: Going to understand everything. I think. 285 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: So a weakening is a fine word to use. I 286 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: think as I was on this journey, and I'll go 287 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: into the journey, I think one of the biggest things 288 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: that for me that happened that I felt was like, 289 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: oh I was wrong about something like it was. I 290 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: sort of started this project with a certain set of 291 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: assumptions that I had, you know, developed over the last 292 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, since I was in college, over the last 293 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: fifteen years or so, and then as I was doing 294 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: more thinking, I just started to change my mind about 295 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: all of that. And that's why the article was titled 296 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Why I Changed my Mind about volunteering, although it's kind 297 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: of about much more than that. 298 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 3: So it started with a note I got from a reader. 299 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: I thought, I'm sorry, Oh sure, it's important for the audience, 300 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: those of you listening, watching, and here I really look 301 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 2: up the article after you hear this. But the title 302 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: is why I Changed my mind about volunteering. The subtitle 303 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: my generation was taught to change the system that lesson 304 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: came at a cost that in and of itself is 305 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 2: attention grabbing because it's interesting how you say your generation, 306 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 2: and it came at a call. So I aired in 307 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 2: not saying that before you started. I wanted to get 308 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: your body up on that. 309 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would I would definitely be interested to 310 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: hear from you later if you think there's similar things 311 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 1: in your generation or how if you think it's different. 312 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 2: I do think there's similar things, but from a completely 313 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 2: different spectrum. 314 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 3: Cool. I want to I want to hear more about that. 315 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: So, as I mentioned, you know, I studied sociology, I've 316 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: been writing about social policy for over a decade. I 317 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: write about, you know, housing, the housing crisis. I write about, 318 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, education reform, all these sort of big systemic 319 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: issues that are require policy change and legislation. And basically 320 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: it started with a note I got from a reader 321 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: who contacted me and sort of said, you know, I 322 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: read your latest article. I had done this article about 323 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: tiny home shelters, and he said, you know, when I 324 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: walk home from work, I see people outside. I live 325 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. This reader also, I think, was 326 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: in DC, and just said, like, what can I possibly 327 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: do as one person to help I feel like they're 328 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: you know, I feel so overwhelmed by the situation. It 329 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: feels like nothing I can do really matters. And I 330 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: started to jot back a response, but it was actually 331 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: approaching Christmas and you know, in journalism, people news organizations 332 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: kind of stuck up on articles to run over Christmas 333 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: week while everyone's on vacation. And I thought, I said 334 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: to my editor, you know, this actually is a good question. 335 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 1: Why don't I report this out sort of formally, like 336 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: why don't I call people and then actually we can 337 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 1: run this as an article over Christmas week about you know, 338 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: what do experts say is actually the best ways to 339 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: help people who are And you know, I had some ideas, 340 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: but I thought, let's do the formal reporting process. 341 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 2: Can we call those preconceived notions? 342 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: Well, I think, for at least for me, they were 343 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: based on reporting on homelessness, you know, from some dimensions. 344 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, some preconceived notions, I would say a mix 345 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: for me. And so, you know, I sort of made 346 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: a list of organizations, started making calls, and. 347 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 3: It's just the responses I. 348 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: Got, some of them overlapped with what I had, you know, 349 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: was going to tell this reader, you know, you should 350 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: go to your city council meetings. You should make your 351 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: voice heard for more affordable housing. You should, you know, 352 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: support zoning laws that can allow for you know, more 353 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: shelters and policies that raise wages because people can't afford 354 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: their rent and that's how a lot of people are 355 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: becoming homeless. But a lot of the suggestions were just 356 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: a lot more, uh, you know, simpler was you know, 357 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: carry cash, hind out socks, look people in the eye 358 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: and smile, like contact your local shelter, see what they need, 359 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: just like a series of things that all made sense. 360 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: But I was like, why didn't I Like, why didn't 361 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: my mind go there? And why don't I do those things? 362 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: And you know why don't I know many people who do? 363 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 3: And it sort of just started me. 364 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: It agitated me, and I remember that Christmas week I 365 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: started thinking a lot about like my time and how 366 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: I what I'm prioritizing in my busy schedule, and I thought, Okay, 367 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: there's some sort of personal questions I feel like I 368 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: need to think more deeply about. I need to figure out, 369 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: like how I've gotten to this point in my life 370 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: where I'm in my early thirties and I'm not sort 371 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: of volunteering at a work, like why did what steps 372 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: have gotten me to this point? 373 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 3: And in my social circles? 374 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, let me just start, let me 375 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: make a change, really quickly, and I'll do the researching, 376 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: thinking thing and for New Year's resolution, let me just 377 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: find something to get involved with so I can like 378 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: start that process. So that was what that was my plan. 379 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: And then can I. 380 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 2: Ask a question, Yeah, did that make you feel better 381 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 2: about yourself? 382 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 3: I like having plans, you know. I was like, Okay, 383 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 3: I'm gonna do you know what I mean? 384 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 2: Do you understand the nature of the question. 385 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 3: It didn't yet. 386 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: I didn't really know yet how all this was going 387 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: to feel. I only I didn't know that getting involved 388 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: would make me feel the way it felt. I don't 389 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: mean that, Okay, So maybe I don't understand the question. 390 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 2: I mean the sentiment. Here's the thing. Yeah, at the 391 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 2: risk of being condescending to everybody on the face of 392 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 2: the planet, but I'm going to do it anyway. It's 393 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: my show. I'm allowed to the high school I went to. Yeah, 394 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: if you cheated, you got in trouble. If you knew 395 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 2: of somebody who cheated and didn't do something about it, 396 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 2: you were con considered equally responsible. Okay, same kind of 397 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: line of thinking. People that allow themselves off the hook 398 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 2: because of that sentiment that they're thinking about doing something 399 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 2: nice that, Oh, I feel better about myself because you know, 400 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 2: I really think somebody how to do something about that 401 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 2: one day. That sentiment means nothing, but somehow it allows 402 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 2: yourself off the hook because you're thinking about nice things. 403 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: You don't say what I'm saying. Did the just the 404 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: beginning of the process give you some false sense of kindness? 405 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 3: Well, Ben, you know. 406 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 2: What I mean. 407 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: I do, I do, but I think for my personal journey, 408 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to do both of these 409 00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: things at the same time. So I was like, I'm 410 00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: not gonna spend a year thinking before I start looking 411 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: for something. Let me, let me get involved with something, 412 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: and then I'm also gonna think about why I haven't 413 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: gotten before. So I told to your point though, one 414 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: of the things that really sort of agitated me is 415 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: I started to think a lot about how actually easy 416 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: it was, like how few intellectual leaps one had to 417 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: make to justify not doing anything for other people, Like 418 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: there's there's. 419 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: That's what I mean, that's what the justification it. 420 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and that sort of and that sort 421 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: of freaked me out because I just realized, like, oh, 422 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: I know all these talking points and rationalizations and and 423 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: people in my social circle, professional circles, like we all 424 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: sort of it's you. You're so busy, it's got so 425 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: much going on, you know, et cetera. There's a million 426 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: different or oh they all waste the money, can't trust 427 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: that organization, or they're ineffective. You know, there's so many 428 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: different sort of excuses that people smart. I mean, I 429 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: think good people have made for themselves that when you 430 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: add them together, really just kind of create this permission 431 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: structure to not do anything for other people. And I 432 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: was like, okay, now that I sort of realized that, belatedly, 433 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: for sure, belatedly, I was like, okay, let me just 434 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: find something to do. And then I also need to 435 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: do some more thinking about how I got here. And 436 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: then one of the things that happened to me personally 437 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: is it was a little harder. It was harder than 438 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: I expected. I was like, I'm a college educated journalist 439 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: with professional research skills. I don't have kids yet. I like, 440 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: I'm self motivated. I will find it should not be 441 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: hard to find stuff to plug into. And but then 442 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: it was. It ended up being, you know, I had 443 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: all this kind of motivation and I was really like, 444 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: I'm ready. And then I was, you know, calling places 445 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: and emailing places, and I wasn't hearing back. And I'm 446 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: not a member of a synagogue at this time in 447 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: my life, and my my workplace doesn't organize anything. 448 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 3: And it was like this very strange feeling that I had. 449 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: It was last winter where it was like, oh, you know, 450 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends, I feel like I 451 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: have I feel like I have a strong social network, 452 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: but I felt like this institutional gap where I was like, oh, 453 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff that Robert Putnam was 454 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: always talking about just having things that you can more 455 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: easily plug into when you want to serve, whether that's 456 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: somebody inviting you that you know because they're doing it, 457 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: or your church or you know, your school. You know, 458 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: I know a lot of parents sometimes their schools organized things. 459 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: And I was just like very conscious of the fact 460 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: that there wasn't anything super easy to plug into when 461 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: I was ready to plug into. No, I wasn't gonna 462 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: let that be an excuse, but I was thinking, if 463 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: I wasn't so motivated right now, I could easily see 464 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: why people just kind of give up, because you know, 465 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: these a lot of organizations are understaff, so they don't 466 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: always get back to the volunteer. A lot of organizations 467 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: like need a whole other person to manage volunteers because 468 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: it becomes so much work for them. 469 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 3: And so it just took me. It took me longer 470 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 3: than I expect, not too long. 471 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: I did, you know, find things, but it was just 472 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: kind of it struck me how it wasn't as easy 473 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: to do. And the more I kind of got into 474 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: this project and was talking to people in other cities, 475 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: and I learned that I'm not alone in that. That 476 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: it's that there are a lot of people who, you know, 477 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: to Eric Finberg's point, like I think want to get 478 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: involved but don't don't know the access points or there 479 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: aren't easy access points. And I say this all to 480 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: not say that should be an excuse and we should 481 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: all find ways, but I think it's helpful when people 482 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: are trying to figure out this disconnect of like, okay, 483 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: we have statistics that say thirty three percent, you know 484 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: or you know that more people want to be involved 485 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: than they are. I think at least part of it 486 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: is that there aren't as sort of just easy ways 487 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: to plug in, or people aren't like inviting each other 488 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: as much so that was kind of one. 489 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 2: You mean that interesting word called community. 490 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: Community, Yes, exactly. I mean that's because I feel like 491 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: I had I had community, but. 492 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 3: My community wasn't doing these things. You know. 493 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you had community, but there's this whole other 494 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 2: community exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah, And that's one 495 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: of the things we're trying so hard to challenge people 496 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 2: to break through, is that your community is just a dot. 497 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 2: There's this massive other community out there. 498 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's really helpful and I 499 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: feel like it's a helpful kind of pushback against the 500 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: crisis screaming because I wasn't lonely, you know, but I 501 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: didn't have that thing. And so those are just it's 502 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: just different sort of ways of thinking about social and connection. 503 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 3: And things like that. 504 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 505 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: So as part of the researching part of my journey, 506 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: I started reading a lot of books, and one of 507 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: the books I read was this book called Who Really Cares? 508 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: By Arthur Brooks, and it came out in two thousand 509 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: and six, and he had a lot of interesting data. 510 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I think some of it might be a 511 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: little out of date now, but one of the points 512 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: he had made was how you know. And I would 513 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: identify as left of center, you know. And he made 514 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: a point that, you know, liberal people tend to donate 515 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: less to charity, they tend to volunteer less and they 516 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: and they also like give blood a lot less. And 517 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: I read this and I was thinking, I've never given blood, 518 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: And then I was thinking, why have I never given blood? 519 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: And I sort of started going through different things, and 520 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: I started researching, and there's it turns out there's a 521 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: lot of research that on how to get people to 522 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: give blood and what first time blood donors. 523 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 3: And it's a lot like voting, where. 524 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: It becomes a habit and if someone invites you to 525 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: donate blood for the first time, you're more likely to 526 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: do it. And I was like, well, no one's inviting me, 527 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: but that's also a bad excuse, like I should just 528 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: do it. And so I then I saw there was 529 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: a blood shortage. The Red Cross was advertising around it. 530 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: COVID really hurt, you know, blood drive donations. People aren't 531 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: doing them at work as much. So anyway, I decided, okay, 532 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: well let me just at least go donate blood and 533 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: then I'll keep thinking. 534 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 3: So I did that. 535 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: Yes, we had a guest recently. Do you know what 536 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 2: percentage of the country needs blood in their lifetime? One hundred? Wow, 537 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 2: everybody needs blood eventually, right, And if you don't need blood, 538 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 2: someone you love needs blood, cancer, car wreck, whatever. You 539 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 2: know what percent that country donates blood or pilot's three 540 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 2: three of our country's blood supplos blood about three percent 541 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 2: of the people. Now, do not tell me there's not 542 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: systematic apathy to the greater community of need. 543 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's horrifying. 544 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 2: So go ahead. You donated blood. I donated blood, but 545 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 2: you're still researching. 546 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm still reaching and you know, and it I 547 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: will say, I don't maybe this maybe your listeners are 548 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: sort of more likely to donate blood because they're listening 549 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: to your podcast. 550 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 3: But if you were like me and you had never 551 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 3: donated blood, I was really. 552 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: Surprised how good it was, Like the feeling you know 553 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: when you get better after being sick for a day 554 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: the next day and you're like, wow, I feel so healthy. 555 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: Like I never felt sort of more healthy, and like 556 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: there was. 557 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 3: So much like vitality. 558 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: Was like, oh I I am a healthy person able 559 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: to do this for somebody else. It felt so good. 560 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: I was really not expecting that it was just a 561 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: great feeling. I've now done. I'm actually donating blood on Thursday. 562 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 1: I've donated blood like four times since that point. It's 563 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: like actually also really good like health thing because it's 564 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: kind of like a workout in terms of calories you 565 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: burns and so so uh anyway, that was interesting and 566 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: so then I as part and then I as I 567 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: was doing this, then I talked to my at Vox 568 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: and I said, Hey, do you mind if I'm like, 569 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: I'll do this on the side. It won't get in 570 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,439 Speaker 1: the way of my work for you, because I wasn't 571 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: hired to, you know, go on this journey for them. 572 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: But I was like, can I work on something on 573 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: the side about volut volunteering and an individual action because 574 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: I think there's something here that I want to figure out. 575 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: And they were supportive, and so I just kind of 576 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: did it outside of my normal work and I started 577 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: email at interviewing sort of scholars of philanthropy and historians 578 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: of you know, social movements, and I just started I 579 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: wanted to understand these questions in addition to getting involved. 580 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: And so the other thing that happened was I got involved. 581 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 3: With the Giving Circle, which I had never heard of before. 582 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: I don't know if maybe your listeners also, but I 583 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: read about it in one of these books I was 584 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: reading and they described it as like a book club 585 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: but for philanthropy, and it's very popular amongst women, although 586 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: not exclusively. But I'm in a book club and I 587 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: love my book club, so I was like, oh, well, 588 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: this could be fun. So I found one in DC 589 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,959 Speaker 1: call Many Hands, and they have been around for twenty 590 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: years and they focus on you know, local DC, Maryland 591 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: and Virginia nonprofits that are dedicated to serving women and 592 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: children in some way. And every year, you know, they 593 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: collectively donate to an organization that the members vote on 594 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: and you like meet together to learn and research and 595 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: talk and do site visits and it's just kind of 596 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: a way to make your the power of collective giving, 597 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: they call it. 598 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 3: So I got involved in that. 599 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 1: I joined like one of the committees where we would 600 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: meet weekly to learn more and then the voting was 601 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: in May. So that was a cool thing, and I 602 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: met all these really nice older women who had been 603 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: sort of in this organization for a. 604 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 3: Really long time. And I think. 605 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 1: One of the things that I started to think about 606 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: as I was doing all of this work and trying 607 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: to figure out how did I get here? How do 608 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: you like, why what's going on? Was I? First of all, 609 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: I used to I volunteered as a kid, like I 610 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,720 Speaker 1: did things with my parents. We would go to soup kitchens, 611 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: we walked for the cure, you know, like cleaning up parks. 612 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: All that stuff was very normal kind of childhood things. 613 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: And then as I got older something I say in 614 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: the essay was it it started to seem childish, Like 615 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: it seemed like something you do as a kid when 616 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: you're not sort of serious about making real change in 617 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: the world. And that real change comes from organizing political movements, 618 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: passing legislation. 619 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 3: Top down, top well, but it. 620 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: Didn't feel top down when I was because it was 621 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: like organ you know, you organize people to push for 622 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: for legislation, So there felt like a like a grassroots 623 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: component to it, and that it felt I was very 624 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: persuaded by all of this stuff that we need people 625 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: to push politicians to pass legislation to get the change 626 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:25,959 Speaker 1: that we. 627 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 3: Need, and and the other. 628 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: And then the other component that came with that was 629 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: I definitely read a lot of essays and heard a 630 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: lot of arguments in college specifically, you know, predominantly, but 631 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: not exclusively. I guess that these more smaller scale things, 632 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: individual action, volunteering in your community, you know, changing your 633 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 1: personal behavior, those were ineffectual at best, they were a 634 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: harmful distraction at worst, like they would distract from the 635 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: attention and focus that we needed to be doing to 636 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: push for the bigger things. And I and I and 637 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people we were persuaded, like, 638 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: you know, oh, if you're if you're talking about recycling, 639 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: you're not focusing on the corporations that are you know, 640 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: causing so much, you know, destruction to the planet. We 641 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: need to keep our focus on that. And we you know, 642 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: if you're if you are focused on tutoring a student 643 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: in reading, you are not focused on these like bigger 644 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: forces that are trying to like hurt public schools, you know, 645 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: things like that, or and I just that's I was persuaded, 646 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: you know, as a as a student and as a 647 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: young adult, and I think a lot of people were. 648 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: And there there was this idea that charity and volunteering 649 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: it was like it was gonna distract. And I think 650 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: one of the things that happened to me as I 651 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: was doing this is like, I think this is wrong 652 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: in a way that I didn't used to understand. And 653 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: I think a world in which we are not doing 654 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: these things for other people, in which we're you know, 655 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: rationalizing a way spending an hour with a student on 656 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: a Wednesday when you have time because you think maybe 657 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: there's a more effective or optimist, optimized way could spend 658 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,760 Speaker 1: my Like, I don't think people are actually. 659 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 3: Doing that either. Like I think that you've realized that. 660 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: It's not like everyone was not volunteering and then mobilized 661 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: for change. Actually a lot of people were cynical and 662 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: nihilistic over here and not helping in their community and 663 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: feeling like nothing was going to change. And it just 664 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: started to realize, like, actually, it's not that it's for me. 665 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: It's not that we don't need systemic change and we 666 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: don't need policies. I'm still a policy reporter. I still 667 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: believe in policies are really important for people, but I 668 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: no longer I don't think it's true that this idea 669 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: that focusing on your community and getting involved and and 670 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: you know something, I know you like experiencing the personal 671 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: benefits of volunteering, all that stuff is actually so important 672 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,240 Speaker 1: to whatever bigger, broader thing you hope to one day achieve, 673 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: and we and that was that was really different for me, 674 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,399 Speaker 1: Like I that was a change, and I That's where 675 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,919 Speaker 1: I've landed. And and I've spent a lot of time 676 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: since kind of talking with other people who also have 677 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: just been really disengaged and sort of know that they 678 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: don't know that there's an issue but haven't really figured 679 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: out Okay, so how do I How. 680 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 3: Do I change that? 681 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: And one other thing I might add if I can. 682 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people in my generation younger, 683 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: like everyone, there's a lot of attention and awareness around 684 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: health stuff. Like people are very you know, almost too much. 685 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm like, you guys can drink, you know, just kidding. 686 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 3: But I think that. 687 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: One of the things that I also just kind of 688 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: realized as I was doing this was, you know, we 689 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: everyone says they're so busy, but all these people are 690 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: saying they're so busy, like they're still making time to 691 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: go to the gym or to get in some sort 692 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: of exercise or whatever, you know, cook meals if they 693 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: can something. But people were not, including me, We're not 694 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 1: seeing making time for being involved in your community as 695 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: like a really just essential thing that should just be 696 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: part of your weekly or monthly or you know, annual 697 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: whatever it is life. 698 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 3: They weren't. They just it wasn't being elevated. 699 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: It was like a, oh, sure it'd be nice to volunteer, 700 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: but you don't have to make time for that. 701 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 3: That's like a maybe. 702 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: If it works out in the way that people would 703 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: definitely prioritize and build in other things. And I read 704 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: a book called Learned Optimism by Martin Seligman, and he 705 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,720 Speaker 1: has a term he uses is called moral jogging. 706 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 3: And he's like, no one. 707 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: Really likes to jog. You just jog because you know 708 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: it's good for you. And he's sort of he so 709 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: he was making this also point that like doing things 710 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: for your community, volunteering, donating, you might not like maybe 711 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 1: you don't maybe you don't want to do it at 712 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: the time, but it is good for you and it 713 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: is a really good thing to build into your lifestyle 714 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: and you will reap the benefits just in the same 715 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,359 Speaker 1: way like jogging is, you know, ultimately good for you. 716 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, I don't have to like I 717 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: don't have to like rationalize myself to go do it. 718 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 3: Anymore. 719 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: But it was all helpful in me sort of unlearning 720 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: or unchanging my mind about a lot of things that 721 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have told themselves about 722 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: why they don't do certain things, like it's not worth 723 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: my time, it's not effective, I could be doing more 724 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: important things I you know, et cetera. 725 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,760 Speaker 2: And that concludes Part one of my conversation with Rachel Cohen, 726 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 2: and guys, don't miss part two. It's now available to 727 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 2: listen to. Together, we can change this country, and it 728 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 2: starts with you. I'll see in part two.