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Speaker 1: My guest today is model and author Paulina Poriskova. Paulina

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Speaker 1: has had a fascinating monumental career. At one point, the

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Speaker 1: world saw her as a model who married a rock star,

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Speaker 1: but she is so much more than that. In this conversation,

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Speaker 1: we talked about the pressure to keep looking young as

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Speaker 1: we age, what it means to be a modeling, current culture,

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Speaker 1: and Paulina's experience processing feelings of grief and betrayal after

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Speaker 1: her husband Cars frontman Eric Okay Sick died. I found

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Speaker 1: this conversation incredible, so real, so inspiring, so honest. I

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Speaker 1: can't wait for you to hear it. Well, I just

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Speaker 1: I was walking around my kitchen last night and I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, I'm entering Paulina tomorrow. And it's funny because

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Speaker 1: I didn't have any level of you know, success, societal

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Speaker 1: success until my late thirties, and there is such a

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Speaker 1: long time of you being so so mega famous and

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Speaker 1: iconic in my life that sometimes I say, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe I'm interviewing Paulina tomorrow, Like Paulina and who am I?

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Speaker 1: And it's just weird that now we're sort of peers

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Speaker 1: in this media entertainment industry, and sometimes I just shake

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Speaker 1: my head at the craziness of all of it. How

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Speaker 1: people are like cars in traffic, weaving in and out

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Speaker 1: and and and and here we are together today. Yeah right,

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Speaker 1: It's crazy what life throws at you. Right, And you

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Speaker 1: can never see around the bend, like you don't know

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Speaker 1: what's next. Well, right, and models, you know, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in the era of like the supermodel, like at

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Speaker 1: the peak era of the supermodel and Glamazon's and you know,

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Speaker 1: you weren't a person. Obviously, you were not a person.

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Speaker 1: You were just this alien beauty figure that like came

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Speaker 1: down to speak to your mortals and marry you know,

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Speaker 1: uh rock star, but not you know, at the superficial

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Speaker 1: attractive level that you were at. So that was like

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Speaker 1: your first mortal, normal human moment in my non having Instagram,

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Speaker 1: Twitter or anything. So now you're a person, like I've

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Speaker 1: seen that you're actually a human being. I've seen you

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Speaker 1: coast real stuff, get emotional, really share um and like

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Speaker 1: you're a flawed human being. So that's crazy for some

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Speaker 1: of us to realize. Now, well, uh, I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: thank you, I guess, uh, you know what it's the

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Speaker 1: that's the it's the celebrity illusion, you know. In in

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Speaker 1: in in in my book, I have an essay about

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Speaker 1: celebrity and about like my take on celebrity is like, like,

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Speaker 1: when you become a celebrity, it's kind of like you're

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Speaker 1: enclosed in this soap bubble with the reflective surface. And

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Speaker 1: so when people look at you, the first thing they

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Speaker 1: see themselves, you know, the reflection of themselves, So their

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Speaker 1: own assumptions about who you are. And so as a

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Speaker 1: people always think, well, celebrities, you know, when you're a celebrity,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows you. But in fact it's exactly the opposite.

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Speaker 1: When your celebrity, nobody knows you, right, but possibly know

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Speaker 1: you because they can't get past their own assumptions about

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Speaker 1: who you are. So, yeah, I was a paper doll

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Speaker 1: for my entire life. Does that mean that I actually

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Speaker 1: was a paper doll? But no, right, you know it's

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Speaker 1: too I think it actually took a tragedy to humanize me.

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Speaker 1: I think, I think oddly enough, I think that's um

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that's where people kind of got

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Speaker 1: them them all, like, oh, maybe her life is not

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Speaker 1: quite as enchanted and as amazing as it seems, and

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Speaker 1: the fact, well share. I think it was Rosie O'Donnell

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Speaker 1: who said something about when you when you achieve fame

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Speaker 1: and celebrity status, you don't change, but everybody around you does,

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Speaker 1: so you know, it becomes right. I mean, well you've

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Speaker 1: I mean see, you have a great point of view

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Speaker 1: here because you, as you say yourself, you didn't kind

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Speaker 1: of become a celebrity until you were actually a woman,

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Speaker 1: so that you could you perceived it in a different

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Speaker 1: way than I, who you know, was a famous child.

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Speaker 1: You know. So it's like I've grown up in that world,

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Speaker 1: and yes I didn't. You know, when you grow up

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Speaker 1: with it, you just think that that's the world. You

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Speaker 1: don't really necessarily, you know you cant's interesting. Well that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting because I will tell you that my personality

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Speaker 1: has changed as a result of it. Now I'm at

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not j low, I'm not like people

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Speaker 1: aren't standing outside my window with cameras um. And I'm

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Speaker 1: very very introverted, which people are shocked by. Really never

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Speaker 1: go out ever unless I have to. But I used

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Speaker 1: to be someone who would talk to people in restaurants,

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Speaker 1: I think, or just you know, talk to random random people,

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Speaker 1: not all the time, and I didn't want to stay

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Speaker 1: in the conversation for super long. But I would go

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Speaker 1: to Starbucks in my pajamas with pimple medicine on my face.

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Speaker 1: I've never really been overlea vain um. But you find

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Speaker 1: that your body language changes a little if you're going

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Speaker 1: to be out and people are going to like, oh god,

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Speaker 1: I forgot we're out and we're at like a mall,

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Speaker 1: and that means that people are going to see me

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Speaker 1: and know that they know me and that we're going

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Speaker 1: into that now. So you do change a little bit

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Speaker 1: because you're just like a little bit on guard and

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Speaker 1: your posture is a little bit crouched because you're just like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, you know. So that is so you

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Speaker 1: have developed that personality from the beginning, and who knows

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Speaker 1: how that would have been different or unpeeled it now. Interestingly,

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Speaker 1: I think it worked a little differently for me because, um,

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Speaker 1: I never knew anything else. I mean, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was kind of famous as a political refugee initially when

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Speaker 1: I was a child, and oh you had that was

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Speaker 1: a you were that was a public thing for you personally,

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Speaker 1: like you were known for when I arrived in Sweden

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Speaker 1: at the age of nine. After this protracted the thing

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Speaker 1: of my parents trying to get me out of the

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Speaker 1: out of Czechoslovakia. I arrived into Sweden at nine and

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Speaker 1: I was like, do you remember that kid Alien Gonzalez,

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Speaker 1: the Cuban refuge Yes, I was that in Sweden. So um,

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Speaker 1: I was like the face of you know, this crisis.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, cold war and you know, poor political refugee

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't make you like super popular in school.

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Speaker 1: Uh so I kind of that, you know, dragged along

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Speaker 1: with me through my teen years. Not not a great

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Speaker 1: time to be known as a political refugee. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: I because I was going to ask you about the

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Speaker 1: bullying and that was a big part of it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was well, that was kind of you know, at

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Speaker 1: least as far as I knew that was what the

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Speaker 1: bullying was based on, because I was always called you

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Speaker 1: dirty communists and go back to your country, and you know,

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Speaker 1: really intense bullying, like I had my head shoved into

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Speaker 1: a toilet and the water flash because I was told

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Speaker 1: I was dirty and that never leaves you that now,

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Speaker 1: that's that that childhood trauma. Wow. But what so did

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Speaker 1: you what did what were you thinking, were you particularly

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Speaker 1: glued to the television with the situation in Ukraine? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was, Yeah, actually it was. It was. I was

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Speaker 1: when I had actually traveled to Israel at that point

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Speaker 1: to attend my godson's wedding, and I was in the

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Speaker 1: middle of writing my book. Now I was on a

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Speaker 1: super time crunch because I had to finish my book

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Speaker 1: in three months. That's a very short amount of time.

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Speaker 1: So I wrote literally every single day, Saturday, Sunday, um,

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Speaker 1: all holidays. But I had to go to my godson's wedding.

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Speaker 1: It's like one of those life once in the lifetime things.

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Speaker 1: So I went to Israel. I was completely jet lagged.

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Speaker 1: I was sitting in my hotel room writing and when

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Speaker 1: I woke up in the morning, I that was the

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Speaker 1: headlines that I saw, and I just felt like I crumbled,

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Speaker 1: you know, and um, and then this essay just kind

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Speaker 1: of flew out of me about occupation, about the what

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Speaker 1: it feels like to be occupied by, you know, on

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Speaker 1: on the country level and also on an emotional level,

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Speaker 1: you know, occupation of the soul. And what's really truly

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Speaker 1: dangerous about occupation is not, you know, not that you

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Speaker 1: can't get the gene jacket that you want, or that

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Speaker 1: you can't listen to the kind of music that you want.

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Speaker 1: But it's that your soul is occupied. You know, you

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Speaker 1: get um, you get you get you're scared of everything.

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Speaker 1: Like you you're you put into this little shape that

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Speaker 1: you have to um kind of fit within. And that's

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Speaker 1: kind of like fame too to a certain to a

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Speaker 1: certain extent, you know, it's like being put in the box,

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Speaker 1: and and part of you almost goes, well, I'm safe

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Speaker 1: as long as I stay in the box, you know,

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Speaker 1: outside of it interesting, it's well. I also think about

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Speaker 1: the fact that you were nine, because I just recently

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Speaker 1: went to an event for the National Holocaust Museum and

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Speaker 1: survivors spoke, and to be at an age that you

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Speaker 1: definitely really remember process and feel like, that's a very

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Speaker 1: interesting age. I feel like the first time my daughter

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Speaker 1: was a person that we made decisions together about where

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Speaker 1: we were going or what we were doing, was you know,

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Speaker 1: probably eight seven eight. So you now have opinions and

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Speaker 1: you know you're you're confused. You're in between being two people,

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Speaker 1: a total child with no opinion and you know, verily

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Speaker 1: very overly decisive tweens. So I just think that the

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Speaker 1: age of that is very uh, it is compelling, and

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Speaker 1: I was very I am very involved in UM Ukraine relief.

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Speaker 1: So it's crazy and thank you. I I follow you

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Speaker 1: on I G two and I see all this stuff

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Speaker 1: that you too, and I just think it's so I

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Speaker 1: appreciate that. Um. So it's funny we're talking about fame

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about beauty, and I for some reason,

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Speaker 1: when I was reading about you, I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: Victorious Secret and Sports Illustrated and the changes in body

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Speaker 1: type and in um ethnicity and all of these different things.

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Speaker 1: And it's I'll be totally honest, because, um, sometimes it

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Speaker 1: feels like beauty and being a model in that whole

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Speaker 1: world of imagery is in an identity crisis. Because when

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Speaker 1: I was growing up, you heard that a model had

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Speaker 1: to be five ft seven and that was the that

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Speaker 1: was the Kate Moss exception. You know, you had to

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Speaker 1: be five ft seven, you had to weigh a certain

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Speaker 1: amount um because you had to be sort of like

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Speaker 1: a hangar for clothes. You know, you were just like

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Speaker 1: a canvas for clothes, and even the look. You know,

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Speaker 1: you aren't going in there with big extensions and glam

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Speaker 1: you had to be natural and be like a blank canvas.

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Speaker 1: That's the way that I saw it or read about

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Speaker 1: it in the magazines. And now and you know, I've

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Speaker 1: talked to different men that think Sports Illustrated was just

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Speaker 1: it was. It was stunning, alien like women in bathing suits.

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Speaker 1: And now they feel that it's not like that because

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Speaker 1: publications have to make sure to check all of these boxes.

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Speaker 1: Um and I think about models were never supposed to

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Speaker 1: be like everybody else. They weren't supposed to look like

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Speaker 1: everybody else. They were supposed to be these glamazon's. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't you know, Lebron James does not play sports like

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Speaker 1: everybody else. That's why he's Lebron James. Like, that's why

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Speaker 1: you're you, That's why Cindy Krawfort. It doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: anyone should love you more or hate you more for it.

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Speaker 1: It's just what it is. Like you just had to

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Speaker 1: just were born stunning, So that's why you were a model,

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Speaker 1: and Michael Jordan was born with a gift or Picasso was,

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Speaker 1: So everything doesn't need to be that. Everybody's gets the

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Speaker 1: same exact opportunities and everything. I'm gonna disagree with you

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Speaker 1: in a in a in a halfways, I always want

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Speaker 1: to hear I'm curious because this is what the thoughts

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Speaker 1: that I have and I'm not allowed to say inside,

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Speaker 1: but I'm saying that. Well that that's because it's you

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Speaker 1: and thank you, just you know, saying what's on your mind. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: first of all, models, yes, I know like of what

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Speaker 1: you speak and that was kind of like you know

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Speaker 1: my generation that you know, Christie Brinkley, Sheryl takes before,

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Speaker 1: like you know, the supermodels after me. So yes, we

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Speaker 1: were supposed to. Um. First of all, the reason you

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Speaker 1: have to be tall and a very specific size is

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Speaker 1: because designers make a sample of clothing, one sample, and

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Speaker 1: all the girls that will photograph it in magazines have

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Speaker 1: to fit that. Right. That's what I understand why we

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Speaker 1: all had to be the same size, right. That size

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Speaker 1: size was not an option because you had to fit

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Speaker 1: that one outfit. Right. Um. Obviously, younger skin, um, I

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Speaker 1: was told, reflects light much better than older skin, and

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Speaker 1: hence all the you know, sixteen seventeen year old um

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Speaker 1: and uh so like and by the way, but that's

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Speaker 1: why a basketball player they should be tall. Like, we're

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Speaker 1: not mad at them for that sport because they should

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Speaker 1: be tall. It's okay. We're not like, oh, why don't

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Speaker 1: you have short people playing NBA. It's just what it is,

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Speaker 1: So go ahead, let's see that. But that's how, that's how.

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Speaker 1: That's what the fashion business was in the seventies and

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Speaker 1: the eighties. Now, mind you, before that, in the forties

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Speaker 1: and fifties, I believe a lot of the fashion models

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Speaker 1: were actually socialized, so they were older, they were slightly

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Speaker 1: older women. There were women in there, you know, late

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Speaker 1: twenties and thirties occasionally even forties, um, and it and

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Speaker 1: it was like elegant women modeling like the kind of

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Speaker 1: things that they would wear. So it was like that

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Speaker 1: W magazine look of all those wealthy New York's Okay,

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Speaker 1: got it. So it was So it's changed, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's being changed throughout the years of like the way

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Speaker 1: of showing you fashion or the way of selling you fashion.

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Speaker 1: And of course you have more fashion than ever to sell,

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Speaker 1: and we have like beauty products of the but to sell.

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Speaker 1: So it's more and more and more information. But I

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Speaker 1: think I also think that, um, while we were clothes

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Speaker 1: clothes hangers, and that's all fine and well. To show

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Speaker 1: you you know, the magnificent creations of like you know, Eve,

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Speaker 1: Saint Laurent whatever, um it also um it's We also

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Speaker 1: didn't represent very many women. We only you know, we

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Speaker 1: were clothes hangers. And and I think while we were

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Speaker 1: supposed to really only show you the fashion and make

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Speaker 1: the fashion look attractive, you know, little girls open the

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Speaker 1: fashion magazines and then sort of get the idea that

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Speaker 1: this is what they're supposed to look like. That. I

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Speaker 1: do go with you on that. I understand that's where

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Speaker 1: the interesting line is though. But not every little boy

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Speaker 1: looks at a professional athlete thinking that's how good they're

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Speaker 1: supposed to be. It's okay that you grew up prettier

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Speaker 1: than I am and taller than I am. I am

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Speaker 1: a good marketer. Whatever it is, like, everybody's not exactly

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Speaker 1: the same. And what with pertaining to to color of

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Speaker 1: your skin, a dent like all ethnicities should be included.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, are people Are some people allowed to

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Speaker 1: be more attractive than others? Now? Is that no? Has

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Speaker 1: that been canceled? We'll see that's or what is attractive.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's what we're battling with now, is

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Speaker 1: what is attractive because quite frankly, Bethany, if you took

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Speaker 1: this same face and there's five ft eleven body and

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Speaker 1: stuck me back a century, I would have been um

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Speaker 1: washing dishes somewhere, because I sure as hell wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: cut it as a beauty a required view. You really,

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Speaker 1: is that really true? Like, isn't some beauty just doesn't

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Speaker 1: some beauty just stand the test of time. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at you and I'm I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: square face and the high cheekbones that will see Okay,

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Speaker 1: so it's trending thing. It's a trend type thing. Well,

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Speaker 1: we do we beauty. Our perception of what is beautiful

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Speaker 1: does change with time. Okay. Committedly throughout the good makes sense.

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Speaker 1: We have had different views of what beauty was, and

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Speaker 1: it's usually sort of based around I guess, you know,

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Speaker 1: the economy and um, you know, sort of like what's

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Speaker 1: going on within the society. So it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: really well, juicy women were seen as a sexual ideals

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Speaker 1: for for hundreds of years because that voted money and

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Speaker 1: wealth and indulgence and health and and good health yes,

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Speaker 1: fability yes, And then it wasn't until the nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 1: when um, being really thin suddenly was a thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: what you're saying to me makes perfect sense, you said.

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Speaker 1: I keep going back to you saying that it was

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Speaker 1: designed because you're just you're moving product, You're moving the clothes,

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Speaker 1: you're moving the beauty. So being a blank canvas, being

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Speaker 1: a hanger, being whatever you say. So now, I so

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Speaker 1: I think it boils down to marketing, and now um,

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Speaker 1: it's being It's all boils down to marketing. So now

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Speaker 1: whatever is going to sell? So if so, what if

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Speaker 1: people have you buy? It's whatever you personally, Bethany feel

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Speaker 1: like whatever, I Paulina feel like buying. That is what

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Speaker 1: you That is what's going to be pushed as the UM,

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Speaker 1: I guess objects of beauty. Yeah, and it's starting at

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Speaker 1: the top of the media and the magazines and the designers,

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Speaker 1: so they can shift. So I'm disagreeing with myself because

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Speaker 1: they can shift. It's still just marketing something different. So

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Speaker 1: it doesn't just because a size fourteen is now more

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Speaker 1: sexy than a size zero, it's still marketing that. It's

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Speaker 1: just marketing whatever it's it's always going to be an

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Speaker 1: EBB and flow. Yeah, So I just yeah, while we're

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Speaker 1: talking about that, you know, and body inclusivity as as

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Speaker 1: we're saying has you know flourished and color inclusivity fantastic.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm all for all inclusivity because I do think that. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think as a woman, we are told so early

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Speaker 1: on that the way we look is of outmost important.

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Speaker 1: Even if your parents tell you, you know, you're great,

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Speaker 1: you're fantastic, you're beautiful the way you are. Don't listen

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Speaker 1: to what anybody else tells you. You live in a

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Speaker 1: society and you get these this input thrown at you

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Speaker 1: all the time that says the way you look matters.

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Speaker 1: There is something and why is it but there? Why

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Speaker 1: is it okay? For it's not okay for someone to

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Speaker 1: talk about someone's weight if it's heavy, but it is

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Speaker 1: okay to talk about someone's weight if they're thin. Like

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Speaker 1: there are double standards. And then some people will say

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Speaker 1: that it's great to celebrate all sizes, all shapes, but

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Speaker 1: not to be promoting unhealthy eating habits, and the pendulum

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Speaker 1: has sometimes swung because everyone's mad at anyone for being thin.

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Speaker 1: And I have a brand called skinny Girl. Also believe me,

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Speaker 1: I know it sure, And we've always like we made

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Speaker 1: the connection. Um, like in the old in the olden days,

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Speaker 1: being plump was healthy and then skinny was healthy. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: you really can't tell by looking at a person whether

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Speaker 1: they're healthy or not. That's it's it's not the body

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Speaker 1: side of determined health. That's true too. So so is

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Speaker 1: it has it been incredible pressure being on lists? Being

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Speaker 1: the top ten most beautiful, the top ten, you know,

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Speaker 1: or just being a supermodel? Is it pressure? Because then

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Speaker 1: you're out at the supermarket if if you think you

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Speaker 1: don't look good, someone's looking at you and they're seeing

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Speaker 1: the Emperor has no clothes or what is that pressure like?

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Speaker 1: Or do you not care? Um? I was also never

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Speaker 1: very vain and all and you know, and I come

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Speaker 1: from a background where I um. I was told I

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Speaker 1: was ugly for until I was fifteen years old. I

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Speaker 1: lived in Sweden, I was I wasn't even in high school.

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Speaker 1: I was in middle school, and I was constantly told

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Speaker 1: that I was ugly. Um, And I'm in one week,

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Speaker 1: I go to Paris, I wake up and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, I'm told I'm beautiful. I look at myself

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Speaker 1: in a mirror and I go, well, I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: exactly the same feature. So a week ago I was

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Speaker 1: ugly and the same exact face is now beautiful. So

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Speaker 1: you're saying what we just said, it's marketing. Well, beauty

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Speaker 1: is in the eye of the beholder, right about. It's

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Speaker 1: about other people's perception of me. And I already sort

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Speaker 1: of knew that. So, um, I you know, I was

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Speaker 1: the girl that arrived at bookings with my really thick

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Speaker 1: glasses and and and a classic book, and that was

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Speaker 1: that was a kind of a model I was. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't really into the high fashion world of it at all.

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Speaker 1: It was like it was a job, and I was

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Speaker 1: very grateful that I could do it and make the

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Speaker 1: money that I made. But honestly, don't give a crap

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Speaker 1: about fashion. Well, by the way, it's funny because I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not vain either. I saw a lot of you,

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Speaker 1: of myself and your story. Um, I'm not particularly vain.

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Speaker 1: I don't really care. I like dress nicely, not like

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Speaker 1: having a nice outfit to go to something, but I

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Speaker 1: don't care about to quote unquote fashion. Um and um,

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Speaker 1: were you a good business Are you a good business person?

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Speaker 1: Have you been good at the business of the business.

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Speaker 1: I suck at business, unlike you got any I'm suck

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Speaker 1: at numbers and business. And it's just I just I

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Speaker 1: like I'm you know, I'm all about you know, writing

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Speaker 1: and figuring out people's um emotional backgrounds and like this

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Speaker 1: is like that's that's all. This sort of interconnectedness between

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Speaker 1: emotions between people that interests me and money does not.

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Speaker 1: And never right. But you definitely have made some mistakes

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Speaker 1: in that case with this, I have. I made some

378
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Speaker 1: very I made some very obvious mistakes, um, and and

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Speaker 1: I paid for it, you know, conlustle or just the

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Speaker 1: cost of doing business. Uh. Well, So, UM, I met

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Speaker 1: my husban and when I was nineteen, and we were

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Speaker 1: married for thirty years. We were together for thirty five

383
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Speaker 1: three two years we were separated but still lived together.

384
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Speaker 1: And then when he died, he left behind a will

385
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Speaker 1: that said that I was not eligible to any of

386
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Speaker 1: the money of our estates because I had abandoned him,

387
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: which was a patent lie. But I, UM, I found

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Speaker 1: myself after thirty some years of living with this man

389
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Speaker 1: that I trusted with my life, um suddenly waking up

390
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Speaker 1: and he was dead and I couldn't ask him what

391
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Speaker 1: was going on, and also like no cash like I was,

392
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Speaker 1: like I did, I did because we were still married.

393
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Speaker 1: I did get these two houses that we owned, but

394
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Speaker 1: um heavily mortgaged and I had no money to pay

395
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Speaker 1: for anything and then came profit. So you know, wow,

396
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Speaker 1: But like I don't even know how someone you know,

397
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: many kids get married with that prenups that are married

398
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Speaker 1: for thirty years. And that's a horror story you're telling

399
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 1: like that. It's very common for someone to be dumb

400
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Speaker 1: and not signed a prenup, you know, you know, in

401
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: the thirties whatever, but in nineteen years old, no one's

402
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: gonna blame you for not knowing what a prenup even was.

403
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Speaker 1: And and like you but along the way, you never

404
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: like asked are we good? Am I good? What's the will?

405
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: Like you know not? And it never occurred to me

406
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: because this is the men that I spent my whole life.

407
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Speaker 1: Loved him, and I thought that he loved me the

408
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: same I thought we were. We were getting a divorced

409
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Speaker 1: because our marriage was not working. But you had a

410
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Speaker 1: pretty good run. It sounds like I had a really

411
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Speaker 1: freaking good run. And we share I mean, you know,

412
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Speaker 1: it's like I spent my whole wife with this guy,

413
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Speaker 1: so I trusted him wholeheartedly. God, it's really like this.

414
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Speaker 1: You just were like trying to mourn and hate at

415
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: the same time. It was it was, it was not.

416
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: It was not a good time. Um, but it was

417
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: obviously the darkest time of my life. But isn't that

418
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: funny though? It's funny that you say that because I

419
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: had a I was married two years. It was a

420
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Speaker 1: ten year to get divorced on a two year marriage.

421
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Speaker 1: Ten year and I mean probably over five million dollars

422
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: in legal like. It was gnarly. It was not a

423
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Speaker 1: garden variety. I mean it was insane, Yeah, brutal battle,

424
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Speaker 1: I mean, court appeals, it was endless, and it was

425
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: I had a very very challenging child, and I've seen

426
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: everything from abuse to hospitalization to attempts at suicide in

427
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: front of me. I've seen it all. Nothing compared to

428
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: this situation I'm telling you about as an adult, so

429
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: I can identify with you, probably the walls closing in

430
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 1: the frustration of having no control over the situation and

431
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: not being able to get the answers you want and

432
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: you'll never get them, and then having to say to

433
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: yourself every day is like just moving closer to healing.

434
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: Probably I think of it like I used to give it,

435
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: Like golf, Okay, I'm the first hole. Now I'll get

436
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: to the second, and then I get pulled back to

437
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: the first hole, and I don't know where. What hole

438
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: are you at now? In everything and grieving and pain

439
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: and anguish and confusion and frustration all of that. What

440
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: hole in the golf game are you? Huh? Well, see

441
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: my metaphor for this is I like your golf course.

442
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: I I wish I had thought of it. My metaphor

443
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: was being pushed into the ocean at at night in

444
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: the dark with a store and just trying to stay afloat,

445
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: Like you have no idea what directions you go in,

446
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: there is no light, You don't know what happened. You

447
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: don't you're not trying to win, You're trying to survive.

448
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,959
Speaker 1: You are literally just in survival mode for a really

449
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: long time. Um. What's long? How long? Um? I would say, well,

450
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 1: it's been three years now, and I think I've gotten

451
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like healing in certain aspects of I am. Um,

452
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sort of okay with the betrayal art now

453
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: of the will thing. Because the money thing got sorted out,

454
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: his a state settled. I got what was due to

455
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: me under New York law, which is the third not

456
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: a half money. I did write all my money into

457
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: our joint bank accounts, and I got h wow, all

458
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: your modeling money was in the pot. Oh yeah, it

459
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: all went into the same pocket. But you know what,

460
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: I got some so um, and I'm I'm and I'm okay,

461
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: and I'm working again, so and you know, and so

462
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: you got over the betrayal, but I got out to

463
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: the betrayal. The grief is kind of like a It's

464
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: kind of like an thing that surges up, you know,

465
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: like you think you're okay and then it just kind

466
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: of grabs you and pulls you under for a while.

467
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: Grieving the death, not grieving the betrayal, grieving the actual loss. Yeah. Interesting.

468
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: I mean again, I spend my whole life with this man.

469
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: I know would be hard to imagine. Like the the

470
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: anger probably was a pretty good grief help because you're

471
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 1: not you know, you would have been thinking about how

472
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: different your grief would have been if you didn't have

473
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: the anger. I'm just curious about that because I you know,

474
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: there are people whose husbands leave them with all these

475
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: bills and kill themselves, and then they're like grieving because

476
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: the person was in so much pain, but they've left

477
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 1: them with this garbage dump. So it's got to be

478
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: this mixed up crazy thing that many people could listen

479
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: probably relate too. Sadly. I actually think that I, Um,

480
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: I was. I was a little reasonful that I didn't

481
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: just get to mourn him because I just after a while,

482
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: I was so angry, And when I wasn't angry, I

483
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: was so sad um And when I wasn't sad, I

484
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: was angry. It's like there was no there was no

485
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: there was not no magment where yeah, where like one

486
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: thing wasn't hurting, you couldn't get out wow and where

487
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: and so Now, so if it was a marathon or

488
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: if it was a golf game, how much out are

489
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: you now? I don't know, Bethany, I have no idea.

490
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: Um three years into it and I can say that, Look,

491
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: I I I feel like I have a purpose in

492
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: my life now. I sort of know what I'm doing. Um.

493
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: You know, I've written a book. Um, I am promoting

494
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: the book. I am. I have my sweet little apartment. Um,

495
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: it's a rental, but you know it's my own apartment.

496
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: Where is it? It's Um, it's in Manhattan. Oh great, Okay.

497
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: You see this beautifully well papered wall. I keep looking

498
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: at it. I'm obsessed with it. It's really cool. It's

499
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: stick and peel wallpapers because it's a rental, so I

500
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: couldn't really well paper. I love it. Um. But on

501
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: the other side of the wall is the very first

502
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: apartment I rented when I came to United States when

503
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: I was seventeen years old. My god, what how is

504
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: that parmy circle? That's meaningful, that's beautiful. So, yeah, you're

505
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: living well. You're an empty nest, right, your kids are growing,

506
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: My kids, my kids are, My kids are out. It's

507
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: just me and uh I am what a full circle? Wow? Okay,

508
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: So I mean this is going I would love to

509
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: this to be three hours, right, I have so much

510
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: time to ask you. Wait, So your kids are grown,

511
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: and how is your relationship with them as it pertains

512
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: to this thing you've just discussed. I'm sure you have

513
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize a lot. You're not going to drag them

514
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: into everything. But they're adults, So how is the whole

515
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: dynamic with your kids. As it pertains to this. My

516
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: children are freaking amazing. They're there. I'm so I am

517
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: so proud of these two men that we've raised. And

518
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: that's me and my husband both. He was instrumental in

519
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: in them becoming who they are, and they are they're

520
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: gentle and they're kind and their understanding and you know,

521
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: I when I was writing my book, all of this

522
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: stuff is in my book. I didn't spare myself any

523
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm keeping other people's secrets, but I'm purging mine. Um.

524
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: And so I I ran the book by them before,

525
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: you know, before publishing, make sure that they were okay

526
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: with everything I said. And there were a couple of

527
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: things that they said, Mom, please take this out. This

528
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: is not I don't want I don't want this in there.

529
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: So of course I did, um. But then I had

530
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: their full blessings on Yep, this is this is how

531
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: you see it, this is what happened. You just ahead, mom,

532
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: go mom, and super supportive. And for them to be

533
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: super supportive of their mother, who does tell the truth

534
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: about what happened, this is pretty impord in there. Because

535
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: they adore their father. I mean, he was like the

536
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: greatest dad in the world to them. Wow. Okay, well

537
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: that's good that you compartmentalize that and allow them to

538
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: have that without tarnishing that completely. Um So I remember,

539
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: obviously I've always known who you are, but really you

540
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: kind of piquing my interest during the pandemic when you

541
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: were really sharing and I mean, did you like really share.

542
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 1: I don't remember what the post was, but you were

543
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: really having a hard day and you're posting yourself the

544
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: way that you you look, um and it was raw,

545
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: to say the least. And it seems like that's this

546
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: next chapter, which is connected to this book entirely. Um.

547
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to tell me when you've

548
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: come out of it, because there will be a moment

549
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: where you're out, like I'm out. And it took a

550
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: long time. It took down a decade. Well it was

551
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: a decade till the thing was closed. So emotionally, emotionally,

552
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: how long did it take? No, I mean I couldn't

553
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: even start the emotional process of healing until I felt

554
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: that there was a button on it and everything the

555
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: money was closed, the custody was closed, the full custody

556
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: was closed, like all of that was closed, So I

557
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: would say realistically, um, maybe a couple of years, like,

558
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: but so probably I don't think you're that far from

559
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: feeling like maybe after this book does well, like there'll

560
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: be a moment where you'll just feel like wow, like

561
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: this button has been snapped and now I'm really like

562
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: feeling lighter. It's just they'll be an aha moment. And

563
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: it definitely hasn't happened yet because you know it and

564
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: just the pandemic saved my life because it brought everything

565
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: to the surface that had happened for all these years.

566
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: And it's when I got full custody, and it's when

567
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: you know, everything was just gone and settled. There were

568
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: no more things to discuss. So whenever that is for you,

569
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: and I'm sure there's a couple of little things that

570
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: haven't been finished that will be like wow, and it will.

571
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: I think I think it's all clear for me now.

572
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: I think it's been clear for me for probably about

573
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: a year now. So whatever, you know. I mean, look,

574
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: I what I fell in love with my husband when

575
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: I was nineteen and I found myself single. Um, when

576
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: my husband and I separated, which was before his death,

577
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: I felt very much in love with somebody, and he

578
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: left me the day I was selling my house, um

579
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: during the pandemic. So that was a little added Um,

580
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: that's the Erin's stork and of it all. No God,

581
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: No got himself in the mess by being my public boyfriend.

582
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: No aeron my vacation from heartbreak, bless u. Yeah, No,

583
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: he was my He was my little vacation and I

584
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: adore him for it. No, it was a different man,

585
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: but unnamed man got it. I don't care at all.

586
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: I just was. I didn't know because that he has

587
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: been public with you, so I didn't know. No, No,

588
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: this guy, this guy was not not, not for any

589
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: particular reasons, which just it was, you know, everybody everybody

590
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: around me knew, and my husband knew, and the kids knew,

591
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,479
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, it was, but it was.

592
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: It was not. I was not sharing that with the

593
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: world because it didn't belong out out there. It wasn't

594
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: anybody's business at that point. But I was kind of

595
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: dealing with the grief and the betrayal and then heartbreak

596
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: as well and then COVID. So when you saw me

597
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: sharing when I came on your radar was when I

598
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: was literally drowning Um, I was you know, i'd say suicidal,

599
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: but um, you know it sounds so like no. And

600
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: COVID crystallized everything because you're alone with your own thoughts

601
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 1: in your head and you know you can't release. And

602
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: I had never been the who that's true. I didn't think, Wow, yeah,

603
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people are like experiencing health

604
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: problems now as a result of, you know, over consuming

605
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: during COVID. I mean it was for some people, you know,

606
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: it was either it was either every it either helped

607
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: them entirely or destroyed them. So I could see, so

608
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: you basically were what could be perceived in other worlds

609
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: or other times as over sharing, but you literally needed

610
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: to connect two people exactly because I was going to die. Wow,

611
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: I mean there was there's like, there's no no other

612
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: way to put it. I was drowning and I was

613
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: sending out little messages in the bottle saying please somebody,

614
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: are you? Is anybody out there? And did people help you?

615
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: And yes? And that's the that's the to me, the miracle,

616
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: and and that that that there were others so well,

617
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: there were other souls that connected to me. And how

618
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: much that that it did keep me afloat because I

619
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: kept other ones afloat. There was like, you know, these

620
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: people started coming to me because of me sharing my vulnerability,

621
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: and then they started hearing their vulnerabilities with me. And

622
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: and when you just know that there's somebody out there

623
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: that hears you, even just that little bit makes you

624
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: make it to the next day, that's really special and

625
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: a gift and kind of full circle with your book

626
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 1: coming out too, so you know you're on this sharing, connecting,

627
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: rebuilding journey being by yourself and your apartment. Um, you know,

628
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 1: I did see myself in you and that it feels

629
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: like you were alone. You weren't alone in your adult life,

630
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: but it feels like in your child life you are

631
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: alone a lot. You kind of did you raise yourself? Uh? Well, yes,

632
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: I raised myself, but I also raised my little brother. Okay,

633
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: so I was not so much alone. I was lonely,

634
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: but I wasn't alone. I had this three year old

635
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: that I had to take care of for, you know,

636
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: my whole childhood, which does make a difference. That's like

637
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: such a connection Like being a single mom, you just

638
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: feel like connection to your child and that was your

639
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: So I get that that's not being alone. No, And

640
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: then I met my husband at nineteen and he already

641
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: had four kids. So you know, I my whole I

642
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: feel like my whole life was spent um being needed

643
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: by somebody else. And now I'm learning how to not

644
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: being needed by anybody. And you know what's not it's

645
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: I don't love it. Oh well, you know I now

646
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the child support issue with your father,

647
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: coming full circle with this issue with Rick, which I

648
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: had the same exact child support issue as a kid.

649
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: The stories told to me were just that my father,

650
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: we hadn't seen him since he was five, and he

651
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: never paid child support. He was this big famous horse trainer,

652
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: and um, my relationship is very challenging also with my mother.

653
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: So I'm relating to you there. But then to come

654
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: later and have someone want to take your money that

655
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: when you were broke and never earned any For me,

656
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: that was full circle also, just like that's can't that's

657
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: not an accident, Like those things are just interesting. You

658
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: had that in your story, it's literally in your bio

659
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 1: about your father, and then you come into the situation

660
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: with someone you're supposed to trust years later, it's like

661
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: leaving another mark. Yeah, yeah, And and it's but it's

662
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: a little bit like life, like whatever fates, whatever higher powers,

663
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: if there are any, it's um, it's like you're here

664
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: to learn this lesson, and you and and you need

665
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: to keep having obstacles thrown in a way to learn it,

666
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: because you're not gonna learn just by coasting through life. Right,

667
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: So here's another obstacle for you. Let's see how you'll

668
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: deal with this one. Well, Ellen always said you you'll

669
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: keep making the same as Ellen generous, You keep making

670
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: the same mistake until you learn the lesson. She said

671
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: to me, she said a couple of things that I

672
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: jump off the page in my whole life. It's interesting, um,

673
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: but she said that to me. And also it kind

674
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: of feels like it created this new journey for you.

675
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: I mean, without what happened with Rick and your dad,

676
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: but certainly what happened with Rick, you wouldn't be sharing

677
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: in this way and writing this book in this way.

678
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: And so that's what I was going to say about

679
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: the Gulf, was that I was thinking, I know, there's

680
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: a reason for all this this pain, this mental pain,

681
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: and this grays, these hair falling out, this stress. There's

682
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: something about this. It will not feel like this forever,

683
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: I will be able to pay this forward and help

684
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: other people in their situations and their divorces. And I

685
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: feel like that's what's happening for you. It just seems

686
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: very poetic. Yeah, I think you're right. I think and

687
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: I also think like for most of my life I

688
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: had I've always had this like real desire to connect

689
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: with people. Again, it's kind of comes back to I don't.

690
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not a rate alone person. I mean,

691
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm fine, and obviously I can manage, but I really

692
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: enjoy talking to people, connecting asking them about their lives.

693
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: Sharing that to me is like my joy in life,

694
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: right and so and and I was always I was

695
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: sort of prevented from being able to do that because

696
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: my husband was exceedingly private and he kind of hated people. Actually, um,

697
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: he was not social at all. And um, so we

698
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: were very small, tightly in the family. Uh. And and

699
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: then and then my celebrity sort of prevented me. And

700
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: that's the kind of celebrity I had for being a momrse.

701
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: You know, No, I mean, to be a model married

702
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: to a rock star is not exactly relatable to the

703
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: average person. To be to be, to be so that

704
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: it didn't make you vulnerable or relatable or connected. So

705
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: to be jilted at and alone as an empty nester

706
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: and at your at your your bottom when everyone thinks

707
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: you have a perfect life. That's related all you know,

708
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: So here we are. That's really interesting and it makes

709
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: a lot of sense, and it's so it was. Maybe

710
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: it was a gift. Maybe the pandemic was a gift

711
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: for you too, was one of those gifts that burns

712
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: down your house. Yes, so you're not immediately grateful exactly.

713
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: I get it. I get it, Believe me, I get it.

714
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: I still can't see my situation as a gift either.

715
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. But it definitely was a

716
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: new chapter starter. Do you do you like where you

717
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: are now? Better than at your happiest before all the

718
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: things fell apart? Well, my childhood was the race track

719
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: and gambling and seeing alcohol and drugs and going to

720
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: nightclubs at thirteen years old and seeing crazy abuse and

721
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: all kinds of nuts nuts things moving thirteen times. It

722
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: was it was. But so as an adult I was

723
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: a bit of an action junkie and I'm just like,

724
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: let's do that, okay, there's a crisis in Ukraine. Okay,

725
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: I could solve it. I can raise fifty million dollar,

726
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: Like I get in all the way and can handle anything.

727
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: So while I'm good for it, there's nothing I can't

728
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: get done, it's not great for me. So at this

729
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: stage in my life with my relationship, which is super solid, um,

730
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: it's not as chaotic. So sometimes I have to realize

731
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: that most people that are in solid, happy relationships with

732
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: their kids and with their partners are hopefully at sort

733
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: of a status quo, meaning it's not you know, Paul

734
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: and I aren't you know, blowing lines of cocaine and

735
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: going out to nightclubs on weekend like we we are

736
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: literally embedded nine thirty. I'm drinking a mocktail like so,

737
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: so sometimes my childhood action is going, wait, what what

738
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: do we There's no problem? What are we doing? Like

739
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, and gets activated and gets activated by work.

740
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: But I'm at the most happy and peaceful and feelings

741
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: healthy and just like good every day and like this

742
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: is great and in a positive attitude I've ever been in.

743
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 1: But it's not like the crack when you first meet

744
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: someone that's wrong for you and you're like, oh my God.

745
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's solid and peaceful and loving and the

746
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: excitement um yeah, I guess yeah. I think all of

747
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: us that were raised in like in those ways and

748
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: then went on to have some um you know, public

749
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: um success. You get used to those hits of adrenaline,

750
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 1: yes and yeah, and so when you're without them, you

751
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: go it's normal. It's totally peaceful, loving, healthy, normal, fun,

752
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: laughing family. It's all that. It's just not me being

753
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,479
Speaker 1: in a nightclub at thirteen years old and my mother

754
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: telling me how to get a fake ID to get

755
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: into you know, the palladium with say to Howard the

756
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: guy at the door, act like you belong, you know, like,

757
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: it's not that. So you have to control that beast

758
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: in our lives at addiction in our lives to the

759
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: act and the getting thing. Yeah, and we get that

760
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: to work a little. Yeah, Well I got it. I

761
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: didn't actually I didn't miss it because I mean again,

762
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: I was married for such a long time and I

763
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: was like I was a mom, and I was you know,

764
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: I have grandkids, step grandkids, I have my kids. I

765
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: have a like this big family and houses that I

766
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: was taking care of and taking care of my husband

767
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: and taking care of everybody and feeling I guess I

768
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: was validated by people needing me, you know, to take

769
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: care of them nice. So yeah, but it's it sucks one.

770
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: It sucks now, Well you'll they'll be the next chapter.

771
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: That's the part that I'm figuring out now where I

772
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: feel like I've done such a tremendous amount of growing

773
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: in the last three years, like you know, like had

774
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: your bones broken and regrown like that kind of growing. Um,

775
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: and I think it's kind of made me taller. You know.

776
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: Do you want to be connected to someone again that

777
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: you do you want to be in a relationship? Yeah? Absolutely.

778
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like being able to have a

779
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: life in which you can share. I love sharing. I

780
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: mean sharing is obviously I love sharing over sharing for

781
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: another book that's funny. Yeah, yeah, you love sharing. Yeah,

782
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 1: And so um, you know, uh, having all these wonderful

783
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: experiences which I have been having this year has been

784
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: kind of a miraculous year of so much travel and

785
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: so back to work and I'm getting my purpose and um,

786
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm I'm connecting to people in a

787
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: whole different way than I was able to do earlier.

788
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: So I'm really like my, uh my, my career life

789
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: is just freaking awesome. Right now. I'm the happiest I've

790
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 1: been with what I am able to do and where

791
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: I'm doing it and who I am speaking to and

792
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: all of that. But then I come out and for

793
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: the first time in my life, I have nobody to

794
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: share it with. I don't. But that's a better box

795
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 1: to check before checking the relationship and then the career.

796
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: So I would say, at least you have the right

797
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: first box check because you're going to come into whatever

798
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: relationship with this is what's going on, this is what

799
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 1: I am, this is this foundation, and then that will

800
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: be additive. Sure, but also trying to I mean dating

801
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: in New York when you're fifty seven, I mean, have

802
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: you what's your approach? Oh, I've done every approach there

803
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: is in the book. I've gone on blind dates, I've

804
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,959
Speaker 1: gone on apps, I've gone on you know, I've met

805
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: people with my my friends. You know what. What? So

806
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: with online dating, you need to be at Barney's. You

807
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: need to be at a select type of department store.

808
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: You cannot be at Macy's, like at at at Walmart.

809
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: For this, you do not want to be on Amazon

810
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: because it's overwhelming and you get full and then you

811
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: get just diracted. But also you have to be a

812
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: very discerning customer. You need to decide ahead of time,

813
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: write down what exactly you want, and do not settle

814
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: at all that I've I've, I've got my list, I

815
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: know what my priorities are. Okay, and I've and you

816
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: know they have changed radically in you know, I think, um,

817
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 1: it's so funny because I always thought, you know, funny, smart, sexy,

818
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 1: was like, you know, really important, and then I realized

819
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: that I left off probably the most important thing, which

820
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: was physically and emotionally available. Yes, and I'm sorry. You

821
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: need someone successful because otherwise it's an awkward pause in

822
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: every vacation, at every dinner in the room. You just

823
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: do you need someone that's let you say, I've I've

824
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: because you know, I've had so much advice on like

825
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: what sort of dating I should be doing, and people

826
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: keep saying date real guys. Date date real guys that

827
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: are just going to adore you and treasure you, and

828
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: you know they don't have to be like the blob lab.

829
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: So I I've gone out on dates with real guys. Um,

830
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: and um, they either talk about themselves endlessly to try

831
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: to you know, bolster there or or they can't talk

832
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: to me at all. So yeah, no, it's not it's

833
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: kind of doesn't work super well. No, it doesn't mean

834
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: you're a bad person because you're not supposed to be

835
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: dating someone that works at a drug store. It means

836
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 1: that you've accomplished a lot, and you need to be

837
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: able to have an educated conversation with someone who is

838
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: passionate and who has accomplished something and wants to accomplish more,

839
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: because that's what you want to do. You're not going

840
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: to respect someone who's sitting around on their ass. And

841
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: I've been through it, and believe me, it's the one

842
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: biggest challenge to me in any relationship is someone not

843
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: feeling like they have to prove something because I have

844
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: so much naturally going on every day that walks into

845
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: this door. So someone else is going to be like,

846
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: oh I did this, and this happened, and because no

847
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: one feels and then also find actually people are going

848
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: to say, well, I mean I'm not Aristotle Onassis, but

849
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: so I know you're used to this, but and you

850
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: just don't need that kind of thing, because that gets

851
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: worse so you need to be at Barney's, not Amazon Barney.

852
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: You need to be at Barneys even though Barney's closed.

853
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: But it's okay, okay, you need to be at the

854
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: proverbial Barney's. Um so, and then I'm gonna leave alone soon.

855
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: It's like a stalking relationship. Now, what about um plastic surgery?

856
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: Have you had it? Do you? What do you think

857
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: about it? Do you want it? For a plastic surgery? Um? There?

858
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I I am always kind of I'm always

859
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm sort of torn in half about like

860
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: what what what? What do I want? Who do I

861
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: believe in? What do I find attractive on other people?

862
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: I know I don't have any fillers or any botox, right,

863
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: and that's a personal choice. Never have, never have, no Wow,

864
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,439
Speaker 1: but I did I have. I've done lasers. I'm all

865
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 1: for like non invasive promises that I'm going to restore

866
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: my college and to prepubscent. Not that it works really

867
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: that well, but I've you know, I I love doing

868
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: that because that makes me feel like I'm not doing anything. Really.

869
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: You know, you look stunning and you look like you

870
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: look natural, and you look like a woman. And I

871
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: used to always think about the way Susan Surrandon used

872
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: to look when I was young, and she looked like

873
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: she was aging beautifully. And I just did the plastic

874
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: surgery tour just so you know, So I now I'm

875
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: a semi expert on it because I've done it twice.

876
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: What do you mean tour? So I too. I will

877
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: get botox probably once or twice a year if I remember, like,

878
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: I'm also not vain, so I look. If I just

879
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: go like this and I'm like, oh, well, there's a

880
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: lot of lines there, then maybe I'll do it. But

881
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm not religious about it. And I don't ever really

882
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 1: look in my face, um, except do I look rested,

883
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: Like I like that look of that freshness in the morning.

884
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 1: And I always have some sort of of a black

885
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: circle and even more so when I am, which is weird. Um.

886
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: But I one time had philler only because I had

887
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: the botox in my TMJ jaw that made it collapse

888
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 1: over a course of time, and so someone said filler

889
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: and I didn't like it, and I didn't do it again. Um.

890
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: I'm not up on everything. I don't read articles on this,

891
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: so I don't I've never had any of those other,

892
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: like the strings or any of the other stuff done.

893
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: I've had peels. Okay, So I someone one of my

894
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: friends who's a very well known celebrity said to me,

895
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: and she's vain, she and you're not, and I'm not.

896
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 1: So you gotta split the difference. She said, you're late,

897
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: not meeting. Go do something. Just as a part of

898
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: a conversation. Oh yeah, everyone's lying. Everyone's done it, and

899
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: you're late. And I'm fifty two and she and you're

900
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: fifty seven. So she said, you're late. Um, and everyone's

901
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: done something and they're all lying about it. I said, oh,

902
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: and two of my friends have done individual things that

903
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: actually bothered them. Now I don't have a specific thing

904
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 1: like aging. I guess would be a thing that could

905
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: boy the US or the black circles, But like, I

906
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: don't have a specific thing like the neck or whatever.

907
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: Just that line over and your smile now it's gotten longer.

908
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: That's annoying. In pictures, and I look back now and

909
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: I had that ten years ago. By the way, so

910
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 1: this isn't like I just never saw it. I look

911
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: in pictures. I just saw something yesterday on my Wikipedia

912
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: I was an old picture. I'm like wait, I keep

913
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: thinking that's an a old thing. I've had that for years.

914
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: So they had gone, and I went on to meet

915
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: the people who said the thing, the guys, the different doctors,

916
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: and what they do say. They all say is if

917
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: you are going to do something, like if you do

918
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: think you're going to do something, and if you're not,

919
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: then great, because I know people who haven't like you,

920
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: and you look amazing. You could run the whole thing.

921
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: I could probably tell you could let it ride. But

922
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: if you have decided that you're going to do something,

923
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: they say, between forty eight and fifty two fifty three

924
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: the way that your face chronologically, the age of your

925
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: face chronologically looks, And they said forty eight for me,

926
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: but that between forty eight and fifty three is an

927
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: optimal time to do it because if you're into your

928
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, sixties, there's more to do, and then because

929
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: there's more that's come down, so then there's more likelihood

930
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: of a more dramatic look and change. And also that

931
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: if you do it in your fifties, it lasts longer

932
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: like the last fifteen years, but if you do it

933
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: in your sixties, it lasts half that time, so it

934
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 1: becomes more of a logical thing, not like me looking

935
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: in my face today? But am I eventually teeth too?

936
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 1: Same with the teeth? Are we getting on this road?

937
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: If all the doctors are saying you're getting on this

938
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: road because of erosion or t MJ, when are we

939
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: getting on? Like? That's the thing. So if a person

940
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: not in you, Paulina, but I'm sure you have an opinion,

941
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: If a person does think that they probably will get

942
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: on that road, then when are they entering into this journey?

943
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: And with how much? That's what I liked about the

944
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: tour was that it became not about I don't like

945
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: the way I look. It became about a logical decision.

946
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: So I liked that about it. Okay, I can I

947
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: can see that. Um, I have a I sort of

948
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: have a slightly different view on it. Those good let's

949
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: see well again. So here's my question to you, um

950
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: are you are you happy with the way you look

951
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: right now? Like? Do you think you are a good

952
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: yew a good version of you? I am? I I am,

953
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: but I don't want to be sixty two and then

954
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 1: I should have entered earlier. That's the thing. Yes, So

955
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: that's a conversation. What you're saying, yes, I do right now,

956
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: like the way that I mean with the you know,

957
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm aging, I'm a person. It's well norm The

958
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: thing like, my question is like, why do we need

959
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 1: to fix our faces as if they were broken with age?

960
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: Are they really broken because you're aging? I mean, look

961
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: at me, I've got lots of wrinkles. I'm getting slightly gelly,

962
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: which I don't love the gels, the gels in the churn. Okay,

963
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: that's what One of my friends had a real problem

964
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: with the gels and it kept getting worse. And then

965
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: she and the next thing so and she looks like

966
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: she did nothing. I like, I like, I like this.

967
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: I like the tendons. I think they're cool. I think

968
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: they look strong. So those I'm like, I'm embracing this.

969
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: I think they and I like them in other women too.

970
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: But I don't like the skin that hangs off, that

971
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: makes you look like you're melting. Okay that I'm not

972
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: like super into. But I like my wrinkles. I like

973
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: I like the life I've lived that's imprinted on my

974
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: face and I don't want to take that away. I

975
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: love that, and so I gets so the jelly things

976
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: will not. But if they were really bothering you, Like

977
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: my friend, they didn't bother until and she's you know,

978
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: gotten older, until they really bothered her. And then she

979
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: only did that one thing because it bothered her, and

980
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: you cannot tell she had anything done like this is

981
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 1: not clown like and that is like, that is what

982
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,919
Speaker 1: If I have something done, it will be because one

983
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: thing bothers me a lot, and I will want to

984
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: just smooth it out so it's not so it doesn't

985
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: bother me anymore. But want to inhabit the same age

986
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: and the same face, and you know we are going

987
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: to get older, there's no around it. Do I want

988
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: to look like? Um? I do not want to look

989
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,959
Speaker 1: like I'm thirty nine because it's impossible and I'm gonna

990
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: look weird and I don't want to be you know

991
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: when I this is like my my tagline on on

992
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: on Instagram that I do a lot of hashtag between

993
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: and Betty White. It's exactly because of this, because we

994
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: are used and this is this representation. Remember what we

995
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: were talking about, It's about representation. How much representation are

996
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: there of women who are fifty seven who look like

997
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: I do that have a fully you know that have

998
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: a wrinkled phase that's fully movable and that you know

999
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: hasn't had any alterations to it. There's not very many

1000
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: of us, so well, I'm not very well represented. We agree, Okay,

1001
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: so we do agree because I am not vain and

1002
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: any reason. It's like sort of like I don't like

1003
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: when there's a little tiny on my shirt or a stain,

1004
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: but I don't mind if it's an old shirt. That's so.

1005
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: So I'm saying I if that line, it just annoys me.

1006
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to do with being ninety nine or

1007
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: twenty nine. It's just a thing um or if it

1008
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: hip and a tooth, I could feel it. It drives

1009
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: me nuts to chip in a tooth like in the back.

1010
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: But it's not age related. It's not at all. So

1011
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: we agree more than you think. Because I don't want

1012
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: to look younger. I don't filter my pictures. I yeah,

1013
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: I don't somebody that doesn't filter. I don't want to

1014
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: look younger. I want to look like I do. But

1015
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 1: if there's something like a gel or the hollow, because

1016
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm thin and because I my my jaw went, that's

1017
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: the conversation I'm having. I and the doctor said, there

1018
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: are people that come in here. They want the Beverly

1019
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: Hills look, they want the Palm beach look. They want

1020
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: to this look, they want the that look. And good

1021
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: surgery is no look. And my friends that have had

1022
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: it done, you cannot tell. They're almost one of them

1023
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: is almost annoyed because it's like she went in and

1024
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 1: you can't even tell, because she's lives in one of

1025
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: those places where you know, they look a little doll like.

1026
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: And if you want the doll like look, go for yours.

1027
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: Do whatever you want. I love being my age. I'm

1028
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: raising my hand in fifty two. I'm I love it.

1029
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: So yes, I we agree more than you know all

1030
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: we we you in fact agree, but I'm sort of

1031
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: just I am. I'm like my The thing that's like

1032
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: such a big part of this is that I feel

1033
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: as women who I mean, first of all, we're shamed

1034
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: for everything from the moment we grow up, right, we're

1035
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: like shamed for the way we look and the way

1036
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: we act. And we're too nice. We're not nice enough

1037
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: to make too much money, too little money. You're not

1038
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: a good mother, you're too much of a hovering I mean,

1039
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: everything that's like just Jame James, James James Jame on you, right,

1040
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: and and looks are and looks are one of the

1041
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: things that because it can put us ahead and then

1042
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: it feels like it can hold you back. And so

1043
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: it looks are so important to us women, And I mean,

1044
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: sure do we wish that it wasn't so, but it's

1045
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: been like this for thousands of years And is it

1046
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: going to go way next year? No, It's but that

1047
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: for different people, I looks have done nothing. Looks do

1048
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: nothing for me in my career like they for you.

1049
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: They have been a currency. For me. It could almost

1050
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: be if I filter myself and look hot and sexy

1051
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: and have big giant Medusa hair and a curvy little

1052
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: way like I will be trolled because it's such a sellout,

1053
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: Like looks are not part of what I have put

1054
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: forth in my career. But you are all about being

1055
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: an authentic person like that. This is what draws me

1056
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: to you is that I feel like you're telling me

1057
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: the truth every step of the way. So if you

1058
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: if you filtered your face and you're lying over in

1059
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: this one specific area, I agree are from the authenticity right,

1060
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: But um, I feel like there's not enough representation of

1061
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: older women. There's a hole between j Lo, who is

1062
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: like your age and looks like she's thirty nine and

1063
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: totally like freaking amazing, and then Betty White, who was

1064
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: snapped cract Lee and they saying, oh broad, you know,

1065
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: and it's like, then you get visible visible again because

1066
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: you're so adorable, you're so cute. Look, she's ninety and

1067
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: she's still like full of pet But in between those

1068
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: two there's like there's no representation. That's that's true. But

1069
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: by the way, that's what's interesting because just like the

1070
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: runway and different people being on it, people are deciding

1071
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: to change and and and and there. I agree with you.

1072
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: But if somebody wants to do something, as long as

1073
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: they're honest, that that's where you get me. Like if

1074
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: I decided to get a new face, if I decided

1075
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: to get green eye, but I have green eyes, but

1076
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: purple eyes, blue eyes, blonde hair. I'm just gonna be

1077
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: honest about it. But please don't tell me it's yoga

1078
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: and water. No, I won't, and I don't. Yeah, but

1079
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: I will say that this is a stupid analogy, and

1080
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: then I'll leave you alone to your life. And whoever

1081
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: before um. When I first started on Housewives, I was

1082
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: wearing a cable knit sweater, no makeup, doing my own

1083
00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 1: makeup in these interviews, and just being totally the real.

1084
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: If you went out to an event, you went to

1085
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:03,959
Speaker 1: the TRISCHMCA boy counter bloom, he doesn't got your makeup

1086
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: done on, Like we didn't have glam squads and you didn't.

1087
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: You weren't putting a gown on before. You just meet

1088
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: four people in a camera guy for cocktails like it wasn't.

1089
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: But that's what it's come to now, and in this

1090
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: industry it's hard. I couldn't just go back in the

1091
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: end we still and and be in my sweatpants, like

1092
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: you look weird. Denise Richards walked into a scene with

1093
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 1: these people on Housewives and looked crazy because they were

1094
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: all wearing a head to toe Gucci and the jazz

1095
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: old f's on their vagina, Like so she had to

1096
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: up her game a little because otherwise it would be weird.

1097
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: So we have to find that balance between upping our

1098
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: game a little and not not representing a fifty something

1099
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: your old woman. I think that's the problem. You've got

1100
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: nine out of ten people doing something and then you're

1101
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: sitting here alone, the only person who's not filtered, and

1102
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: you're like trying to explain. It's like wearing the pregnancy

1103
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: t shirt, like I'm actually pregnant. I'm uploaded. You want

1104
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: to be like, Hi, I'm not filtered, because I know

1105
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: you're looking left and right and everyone looks hot and

1106
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: I look like a wreck. But I just want to

1107
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: know I'm not filtered, and you want the extra cookie

1108
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: for it. I have to do this all the time,

1109
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: like now, when I get booked for like the odd

1110
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 1: model modeling shoot and they they and I it's in

1111
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: a different country and they want me to show up

1112
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock in the morning. I'm like, guys, um,

1113
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: I have a fifty seven year old face with a

1114
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: fifty seven year old reaction to travel, and I'm looking

1115
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: up at eight o'clock in the morning and I look

1116
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: like crap until like three o'clock in the afternoon, you know,

1117
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: the first day, so like be aware that that's what

1118
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna get, right, And it's like people don't people

1119
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: don't listen or they don't pay attention. And then you

1120
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: show up and they're all like, well, okay, but we're

1121
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: gonna do about those arm bags. What are we gonna

1122
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: do about this? Yeah, rights are really coffy, like yeah,

1123
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I told you that's like the maintenance is

1124
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: different when you my age in order to yeah, you can,

1125
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: I mean, but again, I really want to normalize this.

1126
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: I want to normal The truth is, I'm not kidding you,

1127
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: and I'm the most honest person. You know. I would

1128
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 1: tell you you look, I really would you look. And

1129
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: you've looked like a reckon some of those Instagram pictures

1130
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: that you posted just like me. You look at me.

1131
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: You happen to look amazing. I think because you know

1132
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: you were starting you were at like a Michelin star,

1133
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: like you started at such a high level that what's

1134
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: deteriorated and you has gotten you down to being just

1135
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: like normally beautiful, not like alien crazy beautiful. That's what

1136
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: I think. I'm looking at you, and I'm telling you

1137
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: right now you're stunning and in a fresh and natural beautiful.

1138
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: You look amazing. I think it's because you were starting

1139
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,439
Speaker 1: at air Mes, so now you're maybe the affordable air Mes.

1140
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: You were like the rare him Alayan birkin encrusted in diamonds,

1141
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: and now maybe you're just like you know, a rare crocodile,

1142
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, with with with palladium hardware. Like maybe you're

1143
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: not the I think that's what the problem is. Like

1144
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: you started at such a high level that you just

1145
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: got knocked down on hap at such a high level,

1146
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:57,479
Speaker 1: with zero self awareness, with a rebellious attitude and smooth skin,

1147
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: And I wasn't picking off the person that I'm not,

1148
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: not even a quarter of the person that I am now,

1149
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 1: the level of patience and intelligence and insight and humor

1150
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 1: and everything else that I've got going on inside. Um,

1151
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: I had none of that. And that's when I was

1152
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: in my prime. And I'm like, no, no, I'm in

1153
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: my prime now, Yes what prime? In this woman looks

1154
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 1: like it looks older. I love it. I think it's amazing,

1155
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: I really do. And you had such hardship as a child,

1156
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: and then modeling came easy to you, and then you

1157
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 1: had another bump and had hard hard ship after your marriage.

1158
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: You're on a roller coaster. That's beautiful. And I really

1159
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: like where you are now too, And I'm so happy

1160
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: to know you now, Like you know you're gonna tell

1161
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: you I'm gonna get that wallpaper and put it somewhere

1162
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: just to remember you and and yeah, you're my favorite

1163
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: aramaz bag. Well m kind of wrinkled, yes, just like

1164
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, I'm saying that's yeah. Anyway, you're wonderful inside

1165
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: and out is the most important. And I'm so happy

1166
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: to have met you again, to your beth Any and ditto,

1167
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: and I like, I love everything we do again. It's

1168
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: like the honesty, the authenticity and the putting out the

1169
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: good out into the world. You know, thank you. That's

1170
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: if we all could do a little bit more of that,

1171
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: we would well would be a better place. I'm ranting

1172
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,439
Speaker 1: and raving and between all these podcasts and I don't

1173
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: get to talk to interesting people and hear their stories.

1174
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: And wow, Pauline and I had a great conversation. And

1175
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: I love when you know it's not just like a

1176
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: yes everything you say is perfect and yes everything I

1177
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: say is perfect. It's just an interesting conversation back and forth. Um,

1178
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: two women in their fifties who have been through a

1179
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: lot of craziness. And I loved it. She's so interesting

1180
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: and really beautiful inside and out. What a wonderful conversation.

1181
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: I'm really better for that