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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.

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Speaker 2: Today's guest on this week's external Exam is Jody Wellman.

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Speaker 2: Jody is a former corporate executive turned executive coach. She

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Speaker 2: has a master's in Applied Positive Psychology from the University

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Speaker 2: of Pennsylvania, where she is an instructor in the master's

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Speaker 2: program and a trainer in the world renowned PEN Resilience Program.

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Speaker 2: Jody has a business called four Thousand Mondays and has

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Speaker 2: an inspirational TED talk on how death can bring you

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Speaker 2: back to life. Jody is here today to discuss her

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Speaker 2: new book, You Only Die Once How to Make It

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Speaker 2: End with No Regrets. Hi, Jody, Welcome The Mother Knows Death.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be here talking to you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be talking to you too. I

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Speaker 2: can't wait to tell all of our listeners about your book.

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Speaker 2: They're just they're going to be so into it. Tell

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Speaker 2: us I love it well, exactly what positive psychology is

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Speaker 2: and how you got into this field.

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Speaker 1: Well, totally happy to Yeah. Positive psychology makes people scratch

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Speaker 1: their head like wait what and scientifically defined it's the

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Speaker 1: study of well being. I like to say it's the

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Speaker 1: scientific study of what makes life worth living, because I

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Speaker 1: just think that sounds juicier. But it's like in all

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Speaker 1: the same, you know, usually when you study psychology, it's

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Speaker 1: about like what's wrong, you know, studying our dysfunctions of

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Speaker 1: our brain, which there's just no shortage right, the ways

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Speaker 1: that we act, you know, and positive psychology is like, well,

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Speaker 1: let's study what's going right, like when we're using our strengths,

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Speaker 1: when we're flourishing all the things, the conditions that make

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Speaker 1: people and teams and groups and communities actually like prosper

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Speaker 1: and thrive versus you know, languish. So it's kind of cool.

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Speaker 2: It is cool because I feel like, working in the

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Speaker 2: field of pathology, I've been trained my entire life to

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Speaker 2: find what's wrong, and I think that even in my

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Speaker 2: life I have I always say this, like sometimes I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm negative because I always am looking for what's wrong

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Speaker 2: instead of what's right.

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Speaker 3: And I think a lot of our brains are trained

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Speaker 3: that way.

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Speaker 1: You are so onto it. I think some professions will

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Speaker 1: sharpen that, right, So it's clearly yours is like where's

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Speaker 1: the problem, Where's an issue? Where it's the pathology law

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Speaker 1: enforcement is really big on that, like always like attuned

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Speaker 1: to where's the issue. I mean I used to be

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Speaker 1: like a leadership management consultant for years and would always like,

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Speaker 1: what's the problem on the team that we can fix.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, again, like there are enough of them

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Speaker 1: to go around, and it's like it's noble to try

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Speaker 1: to still address those. And there's also a flip side

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Speaker 1: where like we could look at what's working and do

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Speaker 1: more of that. You know, we're like look at our

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Speaker 1: lives and you know, even though I talk about death

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Speaker 1: as a way to talk about living with more vitality

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Speaker 1: and you know, joy while we're here, it is more

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Speaker 1: about like the upside about celebrating, like what do you

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Speaker 1: like about your life and what do you want to

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Speaker 1: do more of? But yeah, the path of getting there

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Speaker 1: is definitely through death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's it's just hard because like you say that,

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Speaker 2: like okay, just be more positive, think about all the

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Speaker 2: great things in your life, but you know, you start

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Speaker 2: going down a rabbit hole and it's hard to stay

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Speaker 2: focused on that.

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Speaker 1: Well, it totally is. And I do think that there's

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Speaker 1: confusion about the idea about like just think positive that

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Speaker 1: it'll work. And like I don't know, but free, but

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Speaker 1: like that just doesn't typically work for me. I like

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Speaker 1: the idea, even though it's circuitous, but it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: remember that you're gonna die, and that actually is like

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Speaker 1: the spark plugs that motivates you to live with more

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Speaker 1: of a sense of urgency rather than doing the thing

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Speaker 1: we do, which is like, oh, I'll do that thing later,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I'll book the trip later, I'll start

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Speaker 1: that business later. Like we defer everything because we just

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Speaker 1: like to deny the fact that we're you know, temporary,

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Speaker 1: and we like to think, well, we'll have time later.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you see this all that, like we don't.

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Speaker 1: Not all of us have time. Like you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: the raw, real reality of how we're totally totally finite,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and some people, you know, most people sit there

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Speaker 2: and say, Okay, I'm going to live to be normal

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Speaker 2: age seventy or eighty. But a lot of people don't

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Speaker 2: have all that time. So your time might end this

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Speaker 2: afternoon in a car accident. You don't know, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean. So it's it's something and that's what's

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Speaker 2: so cool. What I love about your book is that

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Speaker 2: It's not only good for just every for people to

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Speaker 2: just read all different people, but it's good even for

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Speaker 2: parents like myself to be teaching my children this because

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people say to me, like,

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Speaker 2: how do you talk to your kids about death? And

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Speaker 2: I always say, well, the first thing is is that

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Speaker 2: I tell them that they're going to die one day.

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Speaker 2: They know that their time here is very is short,

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Speaker 2: and and you have a life and you have to

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Speaker 2: try to make something of it every day. And something

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Speaker 2: I love that you say in your book is how

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Speaker 2: do you not want to be remembered?

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 1: Well, that struck me actually in research, I was totally

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Speaker 1: blown away because in looking at this whole notion of

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Speaker 1: like legacy and how people you know, how we do

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Speaker 1: this exercise in life where it's like, oh, how do

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Speaker 1: you want to be described at your funeral? Totally good exercise. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to list out a whole bunch of things

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Speaker 1: and I want to hopefully earn the right to be

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Speaker 1: described that way. But here's where I think the research

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Speaker 1: is cool is they say that we're often more motivated

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Speaker 1: by thinking about how we don't want to be described,

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Speaker 1: and that's more UMFI for us to take action rather

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Speaker 1: than thinking about the dreamy ways we'd like to be.

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Speaker 1: So whether you're like a natural human or you're a leader,

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Speaker 1: not that you know leader is not a normal human,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes they're not. This is there this idea where like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, like I don't I was with I

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Speaker 1: was with that workshop the other day and one gentleman said,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be described as cheap. He's like,

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Speaker 1: my dad was a chief skate and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I would do kill me. I'm like, well, you're already

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Speaker 1: dead in this exercise, so anyways, he would kill me

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Speaker 1: to be described as cheap. And so we flip that

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Speaker 1: and you realized like he wanted to be described generous

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Speaker 1: but and so then it was like, okay, to what

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Speaker 1: extent are you being generous? And he was like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, here I am in this pocket of my life.

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Speaker 1: I'm not wow, I want to do more of that.

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Speaker 1: But it didn't motivate him to just think I want

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Speaker 1: to be described as generous. It was more motivating to

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Speaker 1: be like the pain of being called a chiefs gate.

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Speaker 1: So that can be to our manage, right, in a

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Speaker 1: list of ways you do not want to be described

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Speaker 1: and then start living in a way where you live

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Speaker 1: the opposite.

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Speaker 3: That's really good advice.

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Speaker 2: I think that I love that because I do, like,

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Speaker 2: just as you're sitting here talking about this, I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I never really thought about.

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Speaker 3: It that way. What, yes, yeah, the one?

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Speaker 1: Did one come up for you? By the way, Like,

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Speaker 1: were you thinking of one as a notable?

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Speaker 3: One?

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Speaker 2: That I always think about is that whenever you hear

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Speaker 2: somebody describe someone that has passed. I love when I

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Speaker 2: do hear people say, you know, that person was just

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Speaker 2: so happy all the time. She was just very pleasant

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Speaker 2: to be around. And I don't think I'm that person.

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Speaker 2: Of course I wish I would. I do wish I

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Speaker 2: was that person, though I wish. I mean, you never

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Speaker 2: really know what kind of an impact you that you

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Speaker 2: leave on people. But I always am envious of when

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Speaker 2: people say that about certain people that they were always

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Speaker 2: positive and they they they even though they had really

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Speaker 2: crappy things happened to them or whatever, they were always positive,

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Speaker 2: you know, instead.

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Speaker 3: Of being like that.

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Speaker 2: And I wouldn't want, I guess I would say that

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't want people to say that I was negative

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Speaker 2: all the time, right, So it is something not constantly

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Speaker 2: trying to work on.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a good point. Yeah, the idea of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's total down or always like complaining about stuff. So

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Speaker 1: that's that actually leads to habits that we can work on.

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Speaker 1: Right when it becomes like, okay, so what's the behavior

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Speaker 1: that would lead someone to describe me as being negative?

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Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, I guess if I was complaining or

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Speaker 1: I guess if I was always you know, looking on

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Speaker 1: the dark side of what could happen. And so those

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Speaker 1: are things we can edit. And I think that's cool

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Speaker 1: is that those are a chance and a choice to

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Speaker 1: edit that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean that that Debbie Downer sketch on SNL like

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Speaker 2: really hit the nail on the head, because there're just

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Speaker 2: people that you're around sometimes that you're like, oh my god, can.

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Speaker 3: They can they be a little bit more positive?

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Speaker 2: In this book, you talk about one of the things

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Speaker 2: you talk about many different things.

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Speaker 3: One of the things you talk about is how.

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Speaker 2: You want to make the most of your time and

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Speaker 2: not really waste time kind of and you have this

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Speaker 2: this saying that's how many mondays do you have left?

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Speaker 3: Explain to us what that is?

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Speaker 1: Okay, it is I don't know. I've never thought about

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Speaker 1: having a party trick, but I think it's my party

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Speaker 1: trick in life. It's my thing where I want us

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Speaker 1: to count how many Mondays we have left. And I

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Speaker 1: know it sounds morbid, but it's totally worth it. So

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Speaker 1: we roughly get four thousand, and I have a calculator

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Speaker 1: on my website if we don't want to waste our

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Speaker 1: time doing math. But the idea is that when we

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Speaker 1: start to get clear on, oh, how many we have left,

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Speaker 1: Like this week, my math was one and fourteen Mondays left.

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Speaker 1: You if I'm lucky, but I live longer, But like

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Speaker 1: you said, this afternoon could be the car accident of

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Speaker 1: a lifetime. So that does this thing which is called

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Speaker 1: temporal scarcity, which really is this thing in psychology when

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Speaker 1: it's like when you get clear that something you value

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Speaker 1: is going to end because it's temporary or I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it could be like your favorite I don't know, pumpkin

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Speaker 1: spice latte, or like the thing that's limited time, only

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Speaker 1: we tend to value it so much more, you know,

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Speaker 1: we cherish it. We're like, oh gosh, this thing's precious.

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Speaker 1: I need to hold on, you know, I need to

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Speaker 1: savor it. And that's kind of the idea here. It's

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Speaker 1: exactly the idea here. So I want us to count

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Speaker 1: how many monday As we have left so that we

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Speaker 1: can feel just enough existential angst to not feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll put that project off for another ten years and

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Speaker 1: get on with it. So it creates just enough of

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Speaker 1: that tension.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a genius idea, honestly, because I don't

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Speaker 2: think that many people think that it's ever going to

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Speaker 2: end for them, right, And I just had an idea

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Speaker 2: for you. You shouldn't make some kind of a like app

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Speaker 2: or widget for people's phones that has, you know, how

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Speaker 2: you could put in your graduation date or anything like that,

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Speaker 2: Like that might be something that might motivate people to

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Speaker 2: always light in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, totally.

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Speaker 1: I love that so much. Yeah. Yeah, And then some

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Speaker 1: people will beat it, Like my dad is now turning

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Speaker 1: eighty seven, and he filled out the thing on my

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Speaker 1: website and he's so cute. He's like, Joe, I think

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Speaker 1: I broke it. He's like, cause it says at a

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Speaker 1: time he did it was like minus two hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirties of minus. Sorry, dad, but you're as he says

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Speaker 1: he's living on the house money or on borrow time. So,

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Speaker 1: but I like the app idea. I'm going with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it would be awesome because

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Speaker 2: it's just you know, with notifications, because people like to

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Speaker 2: see that kind of stuff and then they're like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm supposed to drink my water today and do my steps.

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Speaker 1: And exactly, oh and uh not die?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Do you think in your education and research that you

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Speaker 2: feel people are becoming less productive and then in turn

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Speaker 2: leading less meaningful lives and do you think that that

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Speaker 2: has to do with the phone social media?

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Speaker 1: Oh? What a cool question. Okay, So I have mixed

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Speaker 1: feelings about this, to be honest, your first part about

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Speaker 1: asking about productivity is interesting because I think we're in

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Speaker 1: an age where like productivity is exalted. It's like about

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Speaker 1: producing more, and like, trust me, I succumb to that.

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Speaker 1: I am all about I feel really valued in life,

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Speaker 1: Like my self worth is contingent on how much I've produced.

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Speaker 1: It's really sad. So I think we're producing some stuff,

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Speaker 1: but I think we're living with less vitality and oomph because,

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Speaker 1: like you said, social media. So I think the latest

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Speaker 1: study is like two and a half hours a day

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Speaker 1: on average that people spend on social media. That doesn't

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Speaker 1: even include TV time and screen time. So that's already

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Speaker 1: like it's already getting even worse. But when we're getting

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Speaker 1: sucked into a screen, we're looking at other people's lives

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Speaker 1: and they're living versions of lives that sometimes we long

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Speaker 1: to be living. And then we've badly at ourselves because well,

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Speaker 1: she looks better in her shorts than I ever will,

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Speaker 1: or like she's in a he's on a yacht and

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Speaker 1: I can't afford a yacht, and like, you know, the comparison,

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Speaker 1: like compared despair. So there is a spiral that is

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Speaker 1: super dangerous over on a social media side. And I

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Speaker 1: think that we are opting out of participating in life

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Speaker 1: because it's just an more immediate gratification to just go

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Speaker 1: to the screen. And sometimes it's even just like email,

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Speaker 1: Like I'll that's my nemesis, you know, I will, I

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Speaker 1: will value answering five emails rather than take the five

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Speaker 1: minutes that it takes sometimes to just go stand outside

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Speaker 1: for a quick second and like have a couple of

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Speaker 1: coffee or like sip something and then come back in.

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Speaker 1: And you know, so I think we are choosing to

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Speaker 1: get sucked in by a screen and watching other people

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Speaker 1: live rather than living ourselves. Do you feel that way?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, And I think too that we're not only

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Speaker 2: watching other people live, but it's a portrayal of something

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Speaker 2: that's not real totally. I think it's it's hard see

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Speaker 2: For me, I didn't get a phone until I was

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Speaker 2: over twenty years old, and I didn't even get a

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Speaker 2: smartphone until I was thirty maybe or almost thirty, right,

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Speaker 2: so I know how to live my life as it's,

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Speaker 2: you know, as a person without the thing, even though

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Speaker 2: obviously you know you need it now for everything that

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Speaker 2: even do your banking or whatever. But I really fear

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Speaker 2: the younger generation that just has had this their entire

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Speaker 2: life and they don't really realize what real life really is.

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Speaker 3: Almost.

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Speaker 1: It's such a good point, you know, when you look

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Speaker 1: at the different domains of life that can provide joy.

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Speaker 1: So it's like the social side, like fun and recreation,

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Speaker 1: personal growth like key areas that tend to make us

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Speaker 1: feel like life's getting lived. When we replace that with

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Speaker 1: the false feeling of connect that can come from connection online,

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Speaker 1: and I shouldn't say it's not all false I don't

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Speaker 1: mean to paint that broad of a paintbrush, but it's

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Speaker 1: mostly false. We're robbing I think, a whole new generation

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Speaker 1: of an opportunity to experience, you know, the joy that

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Speaker 1: you would get of going out to brun to with

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Speaker 1: somebody you know, a new friend, or going and trying

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Speaker 1: a class out and trying a painting class, and like

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Speaker 1: feeling the aliveness of like how it feels to screw

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Speaker 1: up at it, and how it feels to have it

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Speaker 1: look pretty cool, like the wide range of life and

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Speaker 1: certainly including like getting out there, and it is. It

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Speaker 1: is narrowing our lives in a world where my language

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Speaker 1: I talk about widening life with vitality and deepening it

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Speaker 1: with meaning, and I think social media, any kind of screen,

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Speaker 1: will just narrow our lives in a way that we

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Speaker 1: saw happen really during the pandemic. So yeah, let's just

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Speaker 1: we can't eradicate it, but we could be really more

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Speaker 1: mindful about Like I know someone whoo who said, who

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Speaker 1: arranged her settings? God bless her. She figured it out

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Speaker 1: to have her social media time limited each day. So

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Speaker 1: she leads she limits into twenty minutes, and she's like,

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Speaker 1: that's enough for me if I need more than twenty minutes,

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Speaker 1: then she's like, maybe I have bigger problems in my life.

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Speaker 1: And then it allows her to go out and she

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Speaker 1: goes on like long walks and she takes her dog

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Speaker 1: to parks. I mean, she's living in a life that

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Speaker 1: she loves because she's not stuck on the phone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that that's great. I definitely do

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Speaker 2: that for my kids. I've I've sat there and figured

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Speaker 2: out how to do that, because otherwise they would just

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Speaker 2: sit on it all day long. I mean they just

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Speaker 2: they just would. And every single kid that I know

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Speaker 2: that they all hang out with would too. So you

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Speaker 2: have to you just have to be like, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is enough of this. And for myself too. It's I

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Speaker 2: almost feel like you can really get it. It reminds

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Speaker 2: me of like a casino mentality, especially the way that

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Speaker 2: it's set up now with TikTok. It's just you just

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Speaker 2: watch it and you just scroll, scroll, scroll scroll. It's

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Speaker 2: just like pushing the button at the casino, you know exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder if they've breaked her phones and net

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Speaker 1: a pump oxygen out of the phone. You know, casino

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Speaker 1: should keep you there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. It's just it's just so bad for society,

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Speaker 3: which sucks. Is there are really great parts of it.

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Speaker 2: You I'm sure you've even experienced that yourself with what

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Speaker 2: you're doing now, that you could kind of spread your

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Speaker 2: message and yeah, well, I.

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Speaker 1: Do think that there's value that inspiration can occur. So

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Speaker 1: if you're you know, tuning into the right posts and

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Speaker 1: you're not, you know, sometimes it's the right platform for

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Speaker 1: whatever you need. You know, I do think we need inspiration,

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Speaker 1: and whether it's to get an idea about getting up

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Speaker 1: and off the couch, which you know is usually my issue.

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Speaker 1: It's like I just love watching TV at night, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I sometimes just need a little bit not from

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Speaker 1: a point of negativity, but from a point of positivity

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Speaker 1: that like, oh wow, look at this this friend of mine.

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Speaker 1: She's she is frolicking on a beach and and not

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Speaker 1: taking it to the point of I like her life

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Speaker 1: better than mine, but looking at it, like, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: that that looks like a really cool location. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: could look into that, and maybe I could book that

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Speaker 1: and have that to look forward to, you know, where

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Speaker 1: someone is took a picture of their beautiful you know,

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Speaker 1: coffee and their books the stack of books. It's always

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Speaker 1: the stack of books right on and so you know,

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Speaker 1: and like I warn't bad and I want to have

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Speaker 1: the cat on my map. I'm like, maybe seeing that's

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Speaker 1: the thing where it makes you go that looks like

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Speaker 1: a lovely way to spend an hour. Maybe I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do that. So sometimes I think we can intentionally

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Speaker 1: go inspiration hunting for how to have, Like maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a great meal that is really exciting. You're gonna be like,

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Speaker 1: I want the best tie thing I can make tonight,

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Speaker 1: you know, within my talent range. And maybe that's the

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Speaker 1: way that you get to inter interact with it so

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Speaker 1: that it actually infuses your life rather than you know,

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Speaker 1: disintegrates it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's good advice for sure. Oftentimes we see

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Speaker 2: people make drastic changes in their lives due to pivotal

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Speaker 2: events such as like near death experience or just even

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Speaker 2: with people who maybe drink alcohol and hit rock bottom

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Speaker 2: or something, and that usually is something that scares people

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Speaker 2: sometimes into changing their lives in the way that they're

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Speaker 2: living their lives. And you say in your book that

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Speaker 2: you don't have to have a drastic event like in

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Speaker 2: your death experience in order to make changes. So how

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Speaker 2: can you get into that mindset without feeling experiencing trauma?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, without like driving on a motorcycle like crazy

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Speaker 1: just to try and get to the edge. Seems super risky.

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Speaker 1: This is exactly what I'm chasing to be super honest,

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Speaker 1: this question. I love it because I want us to

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Speaker 1: have the same insight that people who have had a

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Speaker 1: brush with death. They see life so differently, like in

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Speaker 1: a way better way. You know, They're way more serious

389
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Speaker 1: or not serious, depending what their vibe is about their life.

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Speaker 1: They know what to prioritize, they know what doesn't matter anymore.

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Speaker 1: They have more of an appreciation and gratitude to be alive,

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Speaker 1: whereas the rest of us are just walking around taking

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Speaker 1: it for granted like we do. So I want us

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Speaker 1: to have that essence. But you're write without you know,

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Speaker 1: the risk. And one of the ways that I've noticed

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Speaker 1: that can be really possible is leveraging things that happen

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Speaker 1: in our lives already. And I know in psychology they

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Speaker 1: call them boundary situations. So sometimes it's a big birthday

399
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Speaker 1: with like a zero or a five at the end

400
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Speaker 1: that makes us go oh wow, Like I am aging

401
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Speaker 1: lean into that you know, like make be aware, like

402
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Speaker 1: back to counting your mondays. Or sometimes it's like pivotal

403
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Speaker 1: moments like okay, getting married or having a kid, where

404
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Speaker 1: it's getting fired from a job or retiring, like major

405
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Speaker 1: life moments that help us to go, oh, this really

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Speaker 1: signifies the passing of time. Stop and reflect on that,

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00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 1: reflecting on even even small changes in your life, things

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Speaker 1: that are evidence that life comes and goes. So you

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Speaker 1: said you do a cool thing where you like, you're

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Speaker 1: candid with your kids already and you're open and talking

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Speaker 1: about it. Most people don't want to talk about it

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Speaker 1: because it's just this awkward subject. Like obviously, you know,

413
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Speaker 1: talking about not being around forever is not lovely. But

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Speaker 1: I think acknowledging it having social conversations with people like

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Speaker 1: your friends and your family and noting, hey, how much

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Speaker 1: time do I have left and what do I want

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Speaker 1: to do with that? So not lingering for long in

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Speaker 1: the the bummer party that oh, well, I only have

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Speaker 1: one Bartre one hundred and fourteen mondays left. Like I

420
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Speaker 1: could use that as a pity moment, or I could

421
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Speaker 1: use that as like, Okay, let me go back to

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Speaker 1: that list of stuff that I wrote that I want

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Speaker 1: to come back to and be like, I think I

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Speaker 1: better book that trip then to the south of France,

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Speaker 1: because I always said I wanted to go, and like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not getting any younger, and so I think it

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Speaker 1: helps to prioritize in that way. But actively planning those

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Speaker 1: kinds of things, tuning in, counting the mondays, having reminders

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Speaker 1: around you, like your wall behind you, all the stuff

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen that you have, Like you're constantly reminded

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Speaker 1: of the reality of like the facts of life, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, All the actually you've seen all

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Speaker 1: too many facts that are like that makes you a

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Speaker 1: very special person. But I think, yeah, for the rest

435
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 1: of us, we just need these like consistent reminders to

436
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 1: come back to, like, wow, we're temporary. That bouquet of flowers,

437
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 1: it's beautiful today, stop and notice when they start to die,

438
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: and to reflect on the fact that that too is

439
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 1: going to be me, you know, downer, but then go

440
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 1: with wow. So how do I savor today? Yeah?

441
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 3: I love that.

442
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 1: I try.

443
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 3: I tried, like every night before.

444
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 2: You might think that it sounds really corny, but every

445
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 2: night when I lay down and I'm trying to fall asleep,

446
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 2: you know, there's like a fifteen minute period where you're

447
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 2: just kind of like in your head and just lay

448
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 2: in there and I just try to think, like, Okay,

449
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: what did I do today? What did I do for myself?

450
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 2: What did I do for my family? What did I

451
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 2: do for my friends? What did I do for society?

452
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 2: Like or just to help others kind of, and it's

453
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 2: just something. And then obviously like you just can't be

454
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 2: perfect every day your life, so maybe like the next

455
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: day you'll just say, you know, sometimes cause I get

456
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 2: like I'll get a lot of messages or something from example,

457
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 2: from my followers, and some days I just can't get

458
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 2: to writing everyone back. And then one day, like maybe

459
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 2: the next day, I'll just sit there for a couple

460
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 2: hours and just write people back.

461
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 3: Just to give back, because you know, stuff like that.

462
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 2: So just because you I feel like it gives you

463
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: a purpose, Like I could be like, Okay, what did

464
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 2: I contribute to this world today?

465
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: Yes, you've just described I think we all need to

466
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: do night lead too. And in my book, I refer

467
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: to it after going through the book as the post

468
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: mortem of like going through you know, your post mortem,

469
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: but like, don't worry, You're not dead yet, But for you,

470
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: like yours is like a post mortem of the day

471
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: that run through of how did I show up in

472
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,959
Speaker 1: these areas that matter to me? And I like how

473
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 1: you acknowledge you're not going to nail it every day.

474
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: But if you find one night you're lying there and

475
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, you know, I kind of dropped the

476
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: ball on the friend thing today, that that's a choice

477
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: to say, Okay, tomorrow, I'm going to recommit to being

478
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: a better friend to these two friends of mine that

479
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: I really haven't engaged with much. That is the spirit

480
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: of self reflection and then getting back on the proverbial

481
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: horse the next day to live a little bit better.

482
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: And I would also encourage yours is so selfless. That's

483
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: what's man, that's so cool You're looking at the way

484
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: you interacted with other people. I also would love to

485
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: extend it slight selfishly to this notion of the life

486
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: you're living for you too, and be like, to what

487
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: extent did I live with vitality was my life? Why

488
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: today did you do something fun and exciting that just

489
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: made give me pure joy? And then did I to

490
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: what extent did I deep in my life with meaning?

491
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: With something that felt more like I was connecting to

492
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: people or more of a sense of purpose or spirituality

493
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: or you know, gratitude or kindness, like the more of

494
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: the virtues. So I think there's maybe maybe room that's

495
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: is going to add another five or ten minutes to

496
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: your night. You're gonna need to go to bed earlier tonight,

497
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,479
Speaker 1: but to really evaluate, like did I feel alive today?

498
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 2: Oh?

499
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that one thing I did when I

500
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 1: was you know, meeting that friend, or when I was

501
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: brainstorming a new idea for a book, and you know

502
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: whatever that might be that you do, like notice those

503
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: and do more of those, but make sure we make

504
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: time to feel like we're showing up to live.

505
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's definitely something I need to work on it.

506
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you, like we're even that easily pick

507
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: that out.

508
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 4: They're just this is not the first time I'm hearing this.

509
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 4: We like this is like a public therapy session for Nicole.

510
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by the Grosser Room.

511
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: Guys.

512
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 2: We talk about the grocer room all the time on

513
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: Mother Knows Death and just today alone. We have so

514
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 2: many cases of Bernie Mack and Prince celebrity death to

515
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: sections as well as must see videos, including the one

516
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: that's titled lunch that shows a woman that was ingested

517
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: whole by a python, just similar to a story that

518
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: we reported on this week.

519
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 3: It's awesome, great community of people.

520
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: We get to comment back and forth to each other,

521
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: and the same people go on every single day to

522
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 2: check what's new. Lots of articles. It's awesome, And every

523
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: single week we do a new celebrity death to section

524
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: or high profile death disseection. So there's always going to

525
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: be a big article explaining like different diseases, different ways

526
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 2: people were murdered, different accidents people have had, but relating

527
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 2: to real life events that happened.

528
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can visit the grossroom dot com for

529
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: more info.

530
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: So you're part of this pen Resilience program, and I

531
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: feel like I'm pretty resilient. I've been through a lot

532
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 2: of terrible stuff, especially as I got older in life,

533
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 2: but I think that that's what makes everybody a strong person,

534
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: when you go through horrible things and then you learn

535
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 2: from them.

536
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 3: And I just feel like the more we as the

537
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: years go on.

538
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: Especially the society that we live in just tries to

539
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: make everything so easy for everybody that it's almost making

540
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: people get kind of soft and losing their resilience. Do

541
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 2: you think that that kind of a culture can lead

542
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: to a mindset that's like stagnant because people are afraid

543
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 2: of taking risks.

544
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: Oh, this question is making my heart beat fast in

545
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: a way that gets me all worked out, because I

546
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: do think the answer is yes. I think that we

547
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 1: have this belief that hardship is something that we need

548
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: to push away hard and fast, like we need to

549
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: drown it, maybe with booze, maybe with TV shopping all

550
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: the little ways that we I mean, or harder stuff.

551
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: You know, that we can find a way to avoid

552
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: dealing with feelings, which is an inevitable part of the

553
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: experience of being alive, you know, like no one gets

554
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: out of here and scathed, like I mean, like literally

555
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: at the end, like we're all we're all going to die.

556
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: But also the journey is going to be sometimes treacherous, right,

557
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: So I think you're super right. Culturally, it's this idea

558
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: about la la la, like live and wrap it up

559
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: and package it nicely and try and avoid it. And

560
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: I think we our resilience muscles are just a little

561
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: bit flabby. You know, like I mean, I mean we

562
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: the more we embrace the struggle, suffer, grief, tears, hardship,

563
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: the more apt we are to be able to a

564
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: make more meaning in life, because fascinatingly, like that's the

565
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: very stuff that meaning is made from. It's through the

566
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: tough times. Most of us can agree, it's like, wow,

567
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: you know it was after mourning for that period of

568
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: time for someone I loved, or it was after going

569
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: through that really hard bankruptcy or that really bad breakup,

570
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: or the really tough childhood all. I mean, there's no

571
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: shortage of examples, right, hardship, Those are the things that

572
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: give us a deeper sense of meaning and belief that

573
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: how we want to live our lives moving forward. We

574
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: could even go into post traumatic growth, which is its

575
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: whole other beast and animal. You know, like thirty five

576
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: to fifty five percent of people who go through a

577
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 1: trauma emerge in a greater state of psychological functioning. It's

578
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: actual growth that they would have had have they not

579
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: had the trauma at all. Now, you know that's not

580
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: for everybody, but I will also acknowledge that there is

581
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: value there. Let's not run away from it. In the

582
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: same way when I talk about the grim Reaper, I'm like,

583
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: let's go have a party with him, Like I mean,

584
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: not for good, like don't stay long at the party

585
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: with him, but like let's go and talk about it,

586
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: and let's acknowledge it and let's just be real about it,

587
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: and I mean, yeah, we got a joke about it

588
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: or else, you know, blow our heads off, but let's

589
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: admit it and see it and embrace it. And that

590
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: does help us typically live with less anxiety.

591
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: Ironically, sometimes I speak about this with my husband, because

592
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: I told you he's a firefighter, so we do talk

593
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: about to post traumatic stress. And he kind of doesn't

594
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: love the idea of labeling someone with that, just because

595
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: he feels like he knows all of the statistics with

596
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: the post traumatic growth and thinks that sometimes when people

597
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: get a label like that, it just doesn't allow them

598
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 2: to get to that growth because they just constantly live

599
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: with that with that label and excuse to not move forward.

600
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I like what you're saying, and you're reminding

601
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: me of something you said in your last question that

602
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: I skipped over and it was so juicy. Yeah, have

603
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: this idea about the label and excuse I think fear

604
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: is a big part of what rules the roost, right,

605
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: so you said earlier, like does the idea about like

606
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: not wanting not being resilient, we don't want to face

607
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: take risk. I think you said about taking like making

608
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: a choice. Maybe it's going back to school, maybe it's

609
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: maybe it is initiating a divorce if you have to.

610
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: Maybe it's moving. Maybe it's even just doing like applying

611
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: for a job that makes you kind of nervous inside,

612
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: but the butterflies feel kind of good. All the things

613
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: that make us feel like we could be exposed, we

614
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: could fail, we could be rejected, but we could also

615
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: feel so good and proud of ourselves if we gave.

616
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 3: It a go.

617
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: So I'm deviating from the point about the labeling, but

618
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: I think it's all part of the same idea. It's

619
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: all how under how we want to try to shelter ourselves.

620
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: And it's a sweet intention, like, oh man, we're just

621
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: trying hard to survive out there, you know, Like like

622
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: it's some days are tougher than others, but it's tough,

623
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: and I don't blame us at all, Like I come

624
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: by my fear. Honestly, I'm the biggest chicken shit out there,

625
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: Like I just try to override that tendency every single

626
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: day to do the things that I think matter. So, yeah,

627
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: let's try to abandon a label that might keep us small,

628
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: and let's try to commit and say, like, am I

629
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: making a choice today that makes me feel alive? And

630
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean doesn't need to be massive, Like am

631
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: I going skydiving? Like, don't not do that if you

632
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: want to. But for most of us, it's just those

633
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: subtle things, you know, about choosing to engage in an

634
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: activity that might make us feel kind of like we

635
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,479
Speaker 1: learned something new, or we had a little fun, or

636
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: we connected meaningfully on the phone with our dad, rather

637
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: than just trying to like help it make schluff them off,

638
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: you know, the little things that might add more of

639
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: a sense of pride and accomplishment and enjoy to life

640
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: and risks. Sometimes.

641
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great advice.

642
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 2: In your research, you found that this is this is

643
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: like one of the most interesting things to me. But

644
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: not because I feel like I already know this, but

645
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: you you found that women are more tend to be

646
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: more open to contemplating death. Why do you think that

647
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: that is? Because in my field of pathology what I'm teaching.

648
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: That's I definitely have. You know, you could look at

649
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: your Instagram insights and like, seventy eight percent of my

650
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: audience is female. And then my daughter and I just

651
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: recently went to the crime con convention that had six

652
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: thousand people in attendance, and my husband was just like,

653
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm going to tell all my friends

654
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: to come here because they're all women here.

655
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: The whole thing is women, right, and all your yeah,

656
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: and all.

657
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: You're talking about is death the entire time, right, So

658
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: what is it about female being into this and open

659
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: to this?

660
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it. The research it's around it.

661
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it is pretty clear, and men would rather

662
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: not talk about it, Thanks very much. Let's move on.

663
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of it can be correlated

664
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: to like typical gender norms, so like there's obviously asterix

665
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: here room for like gender differences and different people. But

666
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: traditionally women are more encouraged and more open about expressing

667
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: their feelings and so there is less of a need

668
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: to bottle up and feel like this makes me uncomfortable

669
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: talking about mortality, so therefore I won't go there. That

670
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: would be a typical, bottled up and more traditionally male

671
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: response versus a Women were more socially trained to be

672
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: open about how we feel and articulate it. And the

673
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: second real phenomenon around this would be as to why

674
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: women are more open to death than men, is that

675
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: we have more of a social system set up where

676
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: like a friendship base where we can talk about our

677
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: fears or you know, maybe we drant our sorrows with

678
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: our friends at happy hour talking about it, or we're

679
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: able to you know, have these social portals, if you will,

680
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: where we're able to be like kind of talked about

681
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: something like I'm really super anxious, or like I know

682
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: a lot of women when they have their first child,

683
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: they all of a sudden get super afraid of death

684
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: because all of a sudden the stakes in their life

685
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: change and matter differently. Right, It's like I don't know,

686
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: before I had a will, but it didn't matter, but

687
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: now I have like a dependent and if I die,

688
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 1: it's like the worst fear. So sometimes those will come up,

689
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: and a woman is more inclined to talk about it

690
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: with her friends and articulate it, whereas the guys just like, yeah,

691
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go I don't know who's going to say

692
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: something cliche, but that's not right. So yeah, that's what

693
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: I say. Do you notice that with your followers and

694
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: like the people that you kind of have in your world,

695
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: does it seem like those are some reasonable Yeah?

696
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: And really, like I mean, thinking about my husband and

697
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: my dad, they don't really have I mean, they have

698
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: friends for sure, but it's there. I think their relationships

699
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 2: are not talking about their feelings, you know what I mean,

700
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: to their friends. Yeah, So that that totally makes sense.

701
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 2: And it actually it reminds me of one of my

702
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: favorite movies of all time is Moonstruck and and do

703
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: you know have you seen it? And it just reminds

704
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: me of that part where Olympia Ducaca's husband is cheating

705
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: on her and she finds she thinks he's cheating and

706
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: finds out about it, and she just goes up to

707
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: him and she goes, I just want to let you

708
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 2: know that you're gonna die, just like everybody else.

709
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 3: And then and then they're all like, what's wrong with him?

710
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: Why is he cheating on her?

711
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: Oh, he thinks he's gonna die, like and that's like

712
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: that just is like a good example of like maybe

713
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: how like that's the whole midlife crisis man doing things

714
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 2: because they don't really know how to process those feelings

715
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: or something.

716
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: That's a really cool connection. Yeah. The the best way

717
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: I know how to handle this anxiety going on inside

718
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: me is to buy a Corvette.

719
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 2: Ye don't, right, It's really interesting in the book you

720
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 2: mentioned that a four day work week won't make a

721
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: difference to prevent burnout, which I think is really interesting

722
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: because I think I feel like, I don't know if

723
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: it's another contrary or state here whatever that they're trying

724
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 2: to push for that all over the place and different

725
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: things I hear about that, And I don't right now

726
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: work a traditional work week like I used to, but

727
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 2: I definitely did used to work that whole nine to

728
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: five Monday through Friday thing, and I always used to

729
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: daydream what it would be like if I could work

730
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 2: for four ten hour shifts and have off a Friday,

731
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 2: and I would I thought anyway, that that would make

732
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: my life so much better. Yeah, So why are you

733
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 2: saying that that that that might not be the case.

734
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because I'm suspicious that the notion of a

735
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: four day work weeks a bunch of Balogney. So if

736
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: it could be the way you just said, if it

737
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 1: was like a punch the clock, I'm in, I'm out.

738
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: I'm here for ten hours, times for if the math

739
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: has to add up, and I'm truly left alone on Friday.

740
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: Now we can talk. But here what I know, Here's

741
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: what I notice, And this is true of the world

742
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: moving to hybrid, moving to working from home post pandemic.

743
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: It's like there's just no freaking border with work for

744
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: many people. So I think that for many and even

745
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: leaders that I work with, where they're like, yeah, we

746
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: could do a four we could do a four day

747
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: work week. But baked into that is an assumption that

748
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 1: people are going to log in on day five. Baked

749
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 1: into that is the assumption that people are like, they

750
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: don't know how to stop themselves, and they're going to

751
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: do a thing on the weekend, or they're going to

752
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,479
Speaker 1: do a thing at night. And so I just feel

753
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: like we're going to get duped along the way where

754
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: and I see this happen. So I've kind of firsthand

755
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: experience where the notion's cool, and I do think if

756
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: managed well, it could be just super lovely. Like I

757
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: think it's France that even has a rule where when

758
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: you're on vacation, your email is like you're logged off.

759
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: You can't even log into your work email. If you're

760
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 1: working for someone else, if you're working from home, I'm sorry.

761
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: If you're working for you yourself, well good luck here.

762
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: You know you're always on the clock. But that is

763
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: really great if there are like mandates in place that

764
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: we will not bother you on day five. I just

765
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm just too suspicious because I think we end up

766
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 1: the bleeds. We let like that scope creep of work

767
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: will flow over into that day and then all of

768
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: a sudden we're not getting the benefit of that time

769
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: off and we're just expected to somehow do more in

770
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: less time.

771
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand that. I think that that would probably

772
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: have worked like thirty years ago without the Internet and email.

773
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: And stuff exactly right, Like I'm at home, what are

774
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: you gonna do? Pick up the phone and dial and

775
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: call me in which some people would do, But no,

776
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: I agree with you now, it's just and and I

777
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 1: blame it like I blame it on the company, the leaders,

778
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: which you know, there's some culpability there about you know,

779
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: putting stuff out there. But I think we also just

780
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: can't help ourselves in the same way we talked earlier

781
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: about being a little bit addicted to our screen, Like

782
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 1: I'm refreshing my email on my phone if I'm standing

783
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: in the grocery line thirteen times, Like is there another

784
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: Like like I also can't help myself. So I think

785
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,479
Speaker 1: we just need we need a forced unflug. But I'm yeah,

786
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: that's what we will be good.

787
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I try hard to do that.

788
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: Like I keep my ringer off of my phone all

789
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: day unless my kids are like not with me and

790
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: need to get hold of me, because I have this

791
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: theory that I don't have to respond to your text

792
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: message when you send it to me, or your email

793
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: or your phone call, Like just because I have the

794
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: thing in my pocket doesn't mean that I owe anybody that.

795
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 3: Like I try to tell the kids all the.

796
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: Time, and especially I talk with my dad about this,

797
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: because my dad was alive back when there were like

798
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: party lines and like people on the block use the

799
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: same phone number and stuff. But even for me when

800
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 2: I was a kid, I remember getting like the caller

801
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: ID in our house, but there was a point where

802
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: the phone might ring when you weren't even home. And

803
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: you didn't even know if anybody called you or came

804
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: over because you didn't have a doorbell, camera and all

805
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: this stuff. And it's like, I kind of try to

806
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: make it like that as much as possible, because they

807
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: used to be cool back in the day. Like if

808
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: someone even when someone's calling you and you call her ID,

809
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: you just be like, you know, I'm not answered.

810
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: I don't want to talk to him right now.

811
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 2: You know.

812
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, your example is so cool. You're reminding me.

813
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: I think I put this example in the book about

814
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: a guy at a workshop that I did with a

815
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: team where he had a near death experience. He almost died,

816
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: and he came back and it was this retreat and

817
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: he was like, guys, you probably noticed that I'm no

818
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: longer dialing in at night or like answering all your

819
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 1: emails on the weekend, because they had a bit of

820
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: a culture which was like a little bit of a

821
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: badge of honor if you're like, oh, I'm well, I

822
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: responded to midnight, you know whatever. And he was very clear,

823
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: He's like, now that I've seen the light, and like

824
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: maybe he was being literal, maybe he saw the light

825
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel. We don't know. He's like,

826
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: now that I've seen the light, I just know what

827
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: matters and what doesn't. He's like, I'm going to do

828
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: a good job. You guys can trust me. Like, I'm

829
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: going to do good work. I'm gonna do it in

830
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: the confines of regular hours. And if I don't get

831
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: it done, it just doesn't matter to me anymore. And yeah,

832
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: like and the whole team of course, was like, how

833
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: do we get a piece of that?

834
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: You know?

835
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: And and also like, damn it, am I a sucker

836
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: for responding at eleven and twelve at night? Like what's

837
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: the point?

838
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 2: You know?

839
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: So I love your attitude and I also love this

840
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: dude's perspective of like if every like I feel like

841
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 1: every issue in life can be solved with the whole

842
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: thing of like life short, why does it matter? You know?

843
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: Like we can we can pretty much succinctly dismiss all

844
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: the bologney with that, you know what, we're gonna die

845
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: maybe soon, that doesn't matter.

846
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just like this is with I try

847
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: to explain it with my kids too, because it's like

848
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: we'll be eating dinner and then their iPad will like

849
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 2: one of their friends will be calling them to FaceTime

850
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: and they'll go to get up, like I'll just I'll

851
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: just tell her that I'm eating, And I'm like, no,

852
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: you don't need to do that. You don't need to

853
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: tell people every second of your day. You get back

854
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 2: to them when you are available, you know.

855
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 3: What I mean.

856
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have beautiful boundaries. I gotta hang around with

857
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: you more. I love that. This is so good because, yeah,

858
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: this is the only way we start to live, because

859
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: otherwise you're tethered and you have to work that much

860
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: harder to make real concerted time for the things that

861
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: again back to like bringing you Joe what or make

862
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: that make you feel alive, Whereas if you can already

863
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: create that breathing room and the permission that I will

864
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: respond when it's right. But beforehand, I'm going to read

865
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: a chapter of a book I'm reading, or but beforehand

866
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: I'm going to go and you know, call a friend.

867
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: But beforehand, I'm going to go and do a collage.

868
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: Like that's where life gets lived in between all that

869
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: other silliness.

870
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm just so into that because I, like

871
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: I said, like, I lived twenty years without any of

872
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 2: that stuff, and I know that life could still go on, believe.

873
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: It or not.

874
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 2: So so that's how I always look at it. You

875
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: say that you have seven research base ways to use

876
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: regrets to your advantage. What do you mean by that?

877
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 2: Can you give us some examples?

878
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I just love the idea that there are

879
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: professional regret researchers out there. I just think that'd be

880
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: a really cool thing to say at a cocktail. I'm

881
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: a regret researcher. So the thing I find fascinating regret

882
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: is the thing we're trying to avoid. Okay, so let's

883
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: be super clear, like, and I'm motivated because my mom

884
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: died in her late fifties of a heart attack with

885
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of regrets, so the things she didn't do,

886
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: and so we're just talking about regrets. So back to

887
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: the research. Research shows that there are regrets of comission

888
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: and omission. If you do a dumb thing and you

889
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: wish she hadn't done it, that's a regret of comission.

890
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: But those are actually not important really. The really the

891
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: singers are the regrets of omission, which are the what

892
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: would have happened if I did apply for that job,

893
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: or what would have happened like if it would have

894
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: been really cool to go back to school, or would

895
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: it would be really cool to have taken that Alaskan

896
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: cruise or whatever, And those are the opportunities that are there.

897
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: So regret research shows that if we pay attention to

898
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: the things that could turn into what I call kuldas

899
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: should have would is, we can courserect them and start

900
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: to live a life today. We're like, Okay, if you

901
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: think on your deathbed, if that was to happen tonight,

902
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: hope it doesn't knock on wood that you'd be like,

903
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: oh man, I never wat it to Alaska. Look a

904
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: freaking trip to Alaska. Like all you have to do

905
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: is go online and book it, right, or maybe go

906
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: online and apply for the thing. Like, we can still

907
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: edit many of those regrets. So that's one really big

908
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: prominent part of research that shows we will find ourselves riddled,

909
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: not riddled maybe, but probably pretty bugged by the regrets

910
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: about the things we didn't do. Regrets are actually helpful.

911
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 1: Of all of the negative emotions. They say that that's

912
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: the prized one, it's the one that's actually most people

913
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: value that one the most. But by the way, you know,

914
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: I just find interesting because I'm like well, what one

915
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: do people value the least of negative emotions? And I'll

916
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: just tell you jealousy is the negative emotion that most

917
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: people are very afraid of because it's just so gross,

918
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: you know. But we value regret because we also know

919
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: that it can help steer our behavior. I like this

920
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: phrase in research, they talk about it as improved decision hygiene,

921
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: like only a researcher would come up with a winner

922
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: like that decision hygiene. Okay, basically, we just make better

923
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: decisions because when you've been burned before, because you know that,

924
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: Oh man, I really wish I had, you know, said

925
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: yes when I was invited to go to that like

926
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: cool weekend trip, but I just said no because I

927
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: do I didn't want to rock my plan, my you know,

928
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: my Netflix watching plan or something. And then you're like, no,

929
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: now I know better if I ever get invited back

930
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: on that cool trip, like I'm going to go, And

931
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: those are cool moments right where you're like, learn from

932
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: the regrets that make you feel those funny pangs, and

933
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: then that does help to steer us to live a

934
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: life that's better lived.

935
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 2: I never really thought about there being two different kinds

936
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: of regrets, but when you say it like that. Of

937
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 2: course that totally makes sense, and I do find I mean,

938
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: I I try to feel like, Okay, well I did this,

939
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 2: and I have this thing like, oh, there's nothing I

940
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: could do about it now, so so like why am

941
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: I going to sit there and obsess over it? Because

942
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: I just like have no control. Yes, you can't go

943
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: on a time machine like.

944
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: Right, And though that's why I try to dismiss those

945
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: so fast, because again in psychological science, like we will

946
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 1: tend to forgive ourselves over time for the dumb stuff.

947
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: Some people will ruminate more than others, but that's going

948
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: to be what it's going to be. But usually we'll

949
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, whatever. The thing that just eats that

950
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: ass is the wondering and because of the reason why

951
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: is it represents the disparity between our actual self okay,

952
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: like who we are today, lover, lever, whatever, versus the

953
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: version of like the idealized self that we all have

954
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: secret fantasies about, like the best version of ourselves, right,

955
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: the version of ourselves that like makes goals and dreams

956
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: and hopes come true and like you know, know, like

957
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: has a great diet. I don't know how like is

958
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: like living the better life that version we do this thing.

959
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: It was like, oh, what if we had if we

960
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: had bought that cute little house on the corner, Like

961
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: we could be so happy, you know, would we even happier?

962
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 1: Or like would I've been more successful if I had

963
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: applied for that job? Or like could like oh if

964
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 1: I had said yes to so and so to the prom,

965
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: Like could we have had could we have been happy

966
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: and had kids? Like we do this weird thing where

967
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: we like fantasize about the version of our lives, and

968
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: that's just crazy making. So I just say, let's put

969
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: a stop. Identify what would be a thing that you'd

970
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: be like, Oh, man, I wished I had done that,

971
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: And it could be small stuff. It doesn't have to

972
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: be big, Like I wished I'd started a nonprofit that

973
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: save save the earth. I mean, obviously do that if

974
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: it inspires you. But for most of us, we're just

975
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: like doing little things. Right. It's like I would regret

976
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: or I'm thinking about someone actually in a workshop last week,

977
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: she said she would regret not having a throwing a

978
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: family reunion for her like long lost cousins and stuff,

979
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: and that one's actually not that small either. Because it

980
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,439
Speaker 1: takes resources and it takes time. But for the most part,

981
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: like you could make it palluck, you know, or you

982
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: can make it like there's a way to not have

983
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: to have it be like mutual de naro. You could

984
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: be like, let's just have this cool party in the park.

985
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: Everybody save the date next July the seventh. I don't know.

986
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: So those are things where it's like if you notice,

987
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: if you think something might bother, you just get the heartburn,

988
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: just freaking take one action towards making it happen.

989
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's something interesting that you talk about in

990
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: the book as well. It's almost like this theme of

991
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: money doesn't buy you happiness kind of thing, Like you're

992
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: saying that it doesn't really matter what your socioeconomic class is,

993
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: is that you can make some changes in order to

994
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 2: make yourself happy that could be on a very little

995
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: to no budget. Oh.

996
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 1: I love that you pick that up in the book

997
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: because it's so important to me because I use words

998
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: like how I want us to live astonishingly alive lives,

999
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: and I am very aware that astonishing has like a

1000
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: connotation to it means it sounds special, fancy, like it's

1001
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: gonna look good on Instagram. It's got to be like

1002
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 1: all the bells and whistles, which like costs lots of money,

1003
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 1: like all the fancy locations, And I just think, hey,

1004
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: if you have the means and that's the way that

1005
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: you you know that lights you up, go ahead and

1006
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: keep doing it. But for the rest of the population,

1007
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: we underestimate the impact of some of the smallest, sweetest

1008
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: little things, you know. So sometimes it's like, first of all,

1009
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: if we just paused and sat back and imagined that

1010
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: you just got to the hospital after being in a

1011
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: coma for three months and your family thought you were

1012
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: gonna die, and you woke up and you're like, oh geez,

1013
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: you don't say because the doctor said you were so

1014
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: close to dying, and you get to come home and

1015
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: you get to look around, you'd be looking at life differently.

1016
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: And I think that that's the spirit I want us

1017
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: to keep coming back to. And that's where it's like,

1018
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: you could just be grateful that you get to sit

1019
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: outside and watch the birds. Okay, that might be a

1020
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: little too boring for you. Fine a lot of time,

1021
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: Actually it's lovely, you might say. One of the things

1022
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: that makes me happy because this is actually an exercise

1023
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: I do is I love to get everybody to write

1024
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: out a list of thirty things that make them happy,

1025
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: and they need to be pretty accessible. People come up

1026
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: with it, they get on a roll, and then like

1027
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: in meetings or like in you know, the workshops I do,

1028
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: people will be like, ah, wait a minute, you said

1029
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: you just love to like make a playlist of your

1030
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: favorite music from high school. Like oh my god, I

1031
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: could do that. That would take me like thirteen minutes,

1032
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: and then I could just totally listen to the Cure

1033
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: all day and be like so happy again, Or like

1034
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: I could wait a minute, you say you love just

1035
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: going outside and tending to your tomatoes. I'll never forget this.

1036
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: One woman that I used to work with, Diana, she

1037
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: used to say like this just brings me. I don't

1038
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: know why, and we all try to know why. It

1039
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: doesn't even matter why, who cares. Just go If you're

1040
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: going out and seeing your tomatoes and watching them and

1041
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: clipping and maybe picking one for tonight, and then you

1042
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: bring you come back in and then you go back

1043
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: to your next like whirlwind meeting schedule. If that brings

1044
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: you join your day, then that's the choice point. This

1045
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: is going to sound so simple, but like when you

1046
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: have a quick break between your stuff, or when you

1047
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: know you're done your day and you're just gonna get

1048
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: caught up in the whirlwind of the errands or the

1049
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: dinner or the whatever the bologny is. What if it

1050
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: just meant being like I'm going to look at my

1051
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: list and like, wow, this is something that I could

1052
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: do that actually just makes me happy. Like I love

1053
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: browsing through bookstores, and it's something now you know, I

1054
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: got to go to a bookstore. So it's not as

1055
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: easy as you know going online, which, by the way,

1056
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: have you ever been on explore dot org? What? Oh,

1057
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: I dare you to not go into the wormhole it is.

1058
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: It's a fabulous website where they have live video cameras

1059
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: on animals all around the world. Oh that's fine, So

1060
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: you can look Oh yeah, you can look at like

1061
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: a giraffe park. You can look at I've been obsessed

1062
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,479
Speaker 1: with a kitten shelter in Los Angeles. I just watched

1063
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: the kittens like multiple times a day. And again, it's free.

1064
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: It's silly. Yeah, I do it for one minute and

1065
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 1: it just puts me in a slightly better emotional state

1066
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: which positive psychology science is pretty clear that, like that's

1067
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: all we have to do is try to rig our

1068
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: life as much as we can to just flipping ourselves

1069
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: into positive emotional states so that the next conversation you have,

1070
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: you're going to be coming from a slightly better place.

1071
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: But so you know, if for me, it's browsing through

1072
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 1: a bookstore just makes me feel so great, well shame

1073
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: on me if I'm not browsing like sometimes we do

1074
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: here for do this where you know something makes you happy,

1075
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: but you actually stop and go when was the last

1076
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: time I did it? And it's eye opening when you're like, oh, like,

1077
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: I haven't actually browsed through a bookstore in a couple

1078
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: of months, Like it wasn't since I had a visitor

1079
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 1: in town that we actually stopped and went and walked

1080
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: around and went into the bookstore. And like, those are

1081
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: the examples where we're leaving life on the table, little

1082
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: opportunities to just feel a little bit more joy or

1083
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: a little bit more meaning. And I think it's all

1084
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: there for the taking. We just have to be a

1085
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: little bit more deliberate and intentional about it.

1086
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a.

1087
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: Good idea to write a list like and just leave

1088
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: it there just to look at it like once a day,

1089
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 2: because I'd be like, You're like, you're a lady like

1090
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 2: with a tomato. I totally relate to that because I'm

1091
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: I'm like that kind of person too. I have like

1092
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: a huge garden outside, and so I do notice that

1093
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 2: I do that though, Like sometimes I just walk out

1094
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 2: on my porch and I just kind of go, like, how.

1095
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 3: These flowers doing? Was it pretty damn good?

1096
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 2: I did a good job here, like pick the little

1097
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: dead ones out and then and then walk away. And

1098
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 2: I'm like, maybe that's why I do that, just to

1099
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 2: get like a little hair of joy.

1100
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: A hair of joy? You do that? By the way,

1101
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: it's hilarious because this woman I was telling you about

1102
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: the Tomato Lady was in New Jersey as well, like

1103
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: the Tomato capital You no, wait, that is so fantastic,

1104
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,280
Speaker 1: But you're okay, You're You're demonstrating also that some people

1105
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: have a propensity to choose joy or gravitate towards it,

1106
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 1: and some of us just need a little more help.

1107
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter, there's no judgment. Some of us

1108
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: are going to naturally book the cocktail outings with friends

1109
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: and we're going to intentionally sign up for the eight

1110
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: week learn how to sketch nude bodies core, so like

1111
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 1: we're going to find ways to do things. Some people

1112
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: are more zesty than others. It's actually a character strength

1113
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: called zest, which some people possess in greater quantity than others.

1114
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: But for those of us that that's just not our

1115
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: natural instinct, and we kind of sit around with that

1116
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 1: niggling suspicion like could there be more? Like could I

1117
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 1: be enjoying my life a little more? Maybe hopefully without judgment.

1118
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to want It's not about shaming

1119
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: ourselves into like I'm not living big enough for that.

1120
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: But when you have that sense like I think I

1121
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: want a little more, I think there could be more.

1122
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: I want to be maybe having a little more fun

1123
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: or recreation in my life, or I feel like my

1124
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: life could be wide or deeper. Oh good, just indulge that.

1125
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: And now for those of us that it's not natural,

1126
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: we just have to go back to that list, or

1127
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: go back to the ideas of ways that we've mused

1128
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: and thought. I did kind of want to volunteer at

1129
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: the library, or I did kind of want to go

1130
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: and check out that film festival, or I did you know,

1131
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: I'll make a lit like lists list. Save us. In

1132
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: a busy world where we're just so polled in different directions,

1133
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: we need a little bit of an inspirational list for ourselves.

1134
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: So go back to it and then say, okay, well,

1135
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,240
Speaker 1: what's one thing that I could plan in my schedule

1136
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 1: that shows I give a care about my life? And

1137
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: once you start demonstrating like, okay, I've always said I

1138
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: wanted to do the sketch class. Let me look it

1139
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: up at the community center or at that I don't know,

1140
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: maybe you know the places where you like drink wine

1141
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: and paint. I mean, I'm not sure how much my.

1142
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 2: Daughter did want to crime crime con that was drank

1143
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 2: wine and draw crime scene sketches or not.

1144
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 3: Wait, what was it? Redcourt?

1145
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 2: It was a courtroom drawings or something, but it's it

1146
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 2: was hilarious. Actually, she asked me if I wanted to

1147
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: do it, and in normal circumstances, I would have been

1148
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 2: all on that too. And I didn't do it because

1149
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 2: it was right after my big lecture and I was like,

1150
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 2: I just want to go sit in my room with

1151
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: my husband alone and just eat like room service and

1152
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 2: turn it off tonight, you know, okay, but it looks

1153
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 2: it looked cool and its stuff like that is you know,

1154
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 2: for my daughter, it made her very like happy. She

1155
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 2: was cracking up laughing the way that they because I

1156
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: guess the guy was describing he was a courtroom sketch artist,

1157
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 2: I guess, and he was showing he was older too,

1158
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 2: like in his nineties. He was doing it his whole life,

1159
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 2: and he was showing how he had to do these

1160
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 2: sketches really quick and portray like what was going on

1161
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 2: in the court.

1162
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 3: And then they were talking about.

1163
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: A particular case and you should just see like everyone

1164
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: in the room.

1165
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 3: It was just hilarious.

1166
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 1: Oh I bet that would have been incredible. I want

1167
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: to go to crime con just.

1168
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 3: So you need to, Yeah, you need to go. That

1169
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 3: was it was so cool.

1170
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: Oh I love that. I love it well the you

1171
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: you even highlighted something that I didn't want to lose

1172
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: the plot on your point about you finished the session

1173
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: that it was amazing and then you just want to

1174
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: like regroup in the hotel room, which is classic introversion tendencies, right,

1175
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 1: is that fair? Like that's me too, Like I want

1176
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: to be like large on the stage, and then I'm like,

1177
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: and then now I shall regroup and get my energy.

1178
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: A lot of people that I talk with in meetings

1179
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 1: and keynotes and stuff, some people will be like, well,

1180
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: I'm not that extroverted, So does that mean that my

1181
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: life can't be astonishingly alive? And I want to go

1182
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: back to this idea about relativity that for some people,

1183
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: their version of a living life wide and deep looks

1184
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: very different. It might look dare I even say ostentatious

1185
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: or like always full of like fun and novel things.

1186
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: And then other people kind of like me and you know,

1187
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: are like they could be just a bit of a

1188
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: simpler existence interspersed with something kind of neat and fun

1189
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: that just feels a little bit like I did a

1190
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: thing like I lived a little tonight and that's lovely too.

1191
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: So there's no judgment about your volume and intensity of

1192
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: you know, living, It's just are we being true to ourselves?

1193
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: And if we have that sense we want more, let's

1194
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: just go for it, Like, let's do things that give

1195
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: us a kick out of life just again, because because

1196
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: that timer's ticking, always got to bring it back to that.

1197
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 2: I love that what's this bite sized bucket list you

1198
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 2: talk of.

1199
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you know, the bucket list obviously people

1200
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,439
Speaker 1: things I want to do before I die. I am

1201
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: so hot cold on it because I think that we

1202
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: love a repository to keep our dreams. I've talked about

1203
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: it like seventeen times in our conversation here, like make

1204
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: a list, make us broad cheet good, good good. Except

1205
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: sometimes I think it creates a false sense of security

1206
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: about a life we're going to live rather than the

1207
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: life we're living today. So a regular bucket list is like, oh,

1208
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to travel here, I'm going to do the marathon,

1209
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: do this class, you know, get involved in this nonprofit,

1210
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: with all the things. But I think we get this

1211
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: pseudo satisfaction of writing down the thing we're going to

1212
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: do and then we go, yep, it's going to be

1213
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: for later. But later is like yeah, I mean you

1214
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: see you know later and late like later for everybody,

1215
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: the bodies. So I feel really nervous about a bucket list.

1216
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: So I love the baby bucket list, which is far

1217
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: more bite sized, and it's this idea of taking a

1218
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: small piece of time in your life, like, for example, summer,

1219
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: the list of all things summer is something that my

1220
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: husband and I have done every freaking summer together where

1221
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: we like it, and the list is not like again

1222
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: back to like this is clear, how like boring and

1223
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: nerdy I am, But like sometimes it'll be like we're

1224
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: gonna have a cream cicle because I haven't had a

1225
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: cream cicle and like.

1226
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I had one right before we started

1227
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 2: talking today.

1228
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 3: I'm not lying to you not.

1229
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 2: They have these really good ones that are only like

1230
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 2: ninety calories and they're vegan.

1231
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 3: They're made with like coconut milk, and I eat them. Yeah,

1232
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 3: I have them all the time in the summer. They're

1233
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 3: so good.

1234
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: Okay, well now I'm going to go find those. That

1235
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: is so exciting.

1236
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's so funny you said that.

1237
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: So now everybody right now I read listening on your

1238
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: list of all things summer right down vegan cream cicle.

1239
00:58:58,120 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: And it could be you know, like a little out

1240
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: It could be include real like outings, or it could

1241
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: include you know, a walk you want to do. It

1242
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: could include a neighborhood you want to go explore. It

1243
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,959
Speaker 1: could like just little things that just you know, would

1244
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: bring you a little bit of joy to be able

1245
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: to look forward to to cross off the list, or

1246
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, like you could be facing a weekend and

1247
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: you're like, what do you want to do and you're like,

1248
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, and then well, okay, we'll go put

1249
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: a load of whites in and the next thing you know,

1250
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: your life is not looking like the way you wanted

1251
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: it to on a summer weekend or a summer Thursday

1252
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: night or whatever, when it could be like, let's look

1253
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: at the list and be like, hey, we wanted to

1254
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: have a blindfold tasting hot dog eating contest. I don't

1255
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: know why'm making this up on the spot. This is

1256
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: very dangerous, but actually I think it's a really good idea,

1257
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: Like which which vegan weaker? Do you like burner? I

1258
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: don't know, but like make the list so that you

1259
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: have the menu in front of you of cool stuff

1260
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: to do when the time comes, satisfaction of crossing it off.

1261
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: Make sure some things are you know, cheap and cheerful

1262
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: and some things can be grand, doesn't matter, but like

1263
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: having it could be the list of all things you know,

1264
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: rome vacation of like all the little things you want

1265
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: to do when you're on the vacation, or the list

1266
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: of all things like long weekend, just because again they're

1267
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: bite sized and they're likely to be accomplished.

1268
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: That's that's great advice. So now after speaking with you,

1269
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to make two different lists. I'm going to

1270
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 2: make one list of what makes me happy and then

1271
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to make other lists of I know what

1272
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 2: you mean, because like, oh, my bucket list, I'll be like, oh,

1273
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 2: I want to go to Egypt, and God knows when

1274
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 2: I'm even going to be able to do that because

1275
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 2: it doesn't.

1276
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 3: Seem like it's super safe to go there right now.

1277
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 2: But so so I just will like look at that

1278
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 2: forever and be like, oh, I guess I'll maybe twenty years,

1279
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 2: who knows, like when I get to it. But like

1280
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 2: making a list with short term things that are.

1281
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 3: Doable, it doable.

1282
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: That's good.

1283
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 3: That's a great idea.

1284
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 2: And I love that you said like a creamsicle or

1285
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 2: something small, just anything that you like that you or

1286
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 2: that you think you would like that you want to

1287
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: try out.

1288
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: Amen. I mean I like another thing we do sometimes

1289
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: is we like, well, it's means we think we have

1290
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: to invent something and we have to like come up

1291
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: with something grand. When what about not reinventing the wheel

1292
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: and doing something that you used to find joy in before.

1293
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: So when we're longing for something that might feel kind

1294
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: of full of joy, it could be like, well, what

1295
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: brought you joy before? It could be like, well, you know,

1296
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: when I was younger, or before I started working at

1297
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: this job, I used to play the viola, and I

1298
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: kind of met, well, oh, well what would it take

1299
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: to take the viola a storage there under that storage

1300
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: bin and like truy oh, like we're always fine. We're

1301
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: looking for something flashy and new, and that's very important.

1302
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: Like I'm a big proponent of adding novelty into life,

1303
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: but I also know that if the path of least

1304
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: resistance is that you're not going to do anything about it,

1305
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: and you have a viola under the stairs somewhere, maybe

1306
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: take out the viola, you know, or like brush off

1307
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: the paint canvas or download Duolingo, like do something that

1308
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: you used to you already know brought you joy and

1309
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 1: maybe just rekindle that.

1310
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great advice. Well, thank you so much for

1311
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 2: being here today. This was this was just really great

1312
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 2: and very like this was like a free therapy session

1313
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 2: for me.

1314
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 3: Thanks for that.

1315
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: I got therapy too. I feel like I now am

1316
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: making some life changes as we're we're talking to you.

1317
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: I'm definitely going to Crime Gone, so thanks.

1318
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and getting the vegan creamsicles tonight. I'm not I'm

1319
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 2: not a vegan person, by the way, but I just

1320
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 2: I bought them from one of my kids is lactose

1321
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 2: and tolerant, and she didn't like them, and I was like, oh,

1322
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 2: let me try it. And I was like, oh, this

1323
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 2: is good, and then I kept.

1324
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: Getting yeah, this will do.

1325
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, exactly is there are you working on any

1326
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 2: new projects or anything you could talk about with us?

1327
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. Right now, I'm still just basking

1328
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: in the excitement of my book coming out. You Only

1329
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: Die Once, so that to me is like, it's all

1330
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: book all the time. Oh yeah, and also planning to

1331
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, do some living around that around Netflix. So yeah,

1332
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: the book and then yeah, maybe coming up with a

1333
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: retreat at some point soon. But really it's all things

1334
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: You only die once. I love that.

1335
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 3: Where can everybody find you? You on social media or anything?

1336
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I am at four thousand Mondays, so we

1337
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: have to spell out fo u r thhousy Mondays on

1338
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: Instagram and I am at four thousand Mondays dot com.

1339
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: So I do a weekly blog where I get to

1340
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,919
Speaker 1: talk all about this fun stuff and so come hang out.

1341
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 3: I love that.

1342
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 2: Well, everybody go follow because I think hearing more tidbits

1343
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 2: like this is just gonna really I really am like

1344
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 2: looking forward to this, honestly, thank you so much.

1345
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: Well, I'm looking forward to reading the anatomy.

1346
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 2: Book outside awesome. Thanks, you're great, Thank you, Thank you

1347
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, my

1348
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 2: training is as a pathologist assistant. I have a master's

1349
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 2: level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I

1350
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 2: am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed or

1351
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 2: treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of a

1352
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 2: licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social media

1353
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 2: accounts are designed to educate and inform people based on

1354
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 2: my experience working in pathology, so they can make healthier

1355
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 2: decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember that

1356
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 2: science is changing every day and the opinions expressed in

1357
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 2: this episode are based on my knowledge of those subjects

1358
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 2: at the time of publication. If you are having a

1359
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 2: medical problem, have a medical question, or having a medical emergency,

1360
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 2: please contact your physician, or visit an urgent care center,

1361
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 2: emergency room.

1362
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 3: Or hospital.

1363
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 2: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1364
01:04:53,080 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 2: or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks many clas