1 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two, we find a defendant, Scottie Peterson, 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: guilty of the clime of murder of Lazy d DS Peterson. 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: The case of State versus Scott Peterson. To me, feels 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: like it just happened yesterday. She just vanished and it 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: turned into a media storm within days. Please please please 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: let her go, bring her back. Guess what, Scotty Sanquin's 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: your new home. There was no biological evidence, no forensic 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: evidence whatsoever that pointed to the guilt of Scott Peterson. 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: There's at least eleven witnesses that saw Lacy that day. 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: This is all a Scott's at the office on his computer, 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: so he's innocent. I wasn't last one. Did you lazy 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: that day? There are so many witnesses are walking in 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: the name of hood. After I left the cops, just 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: In Thenner followed up on the earlier across the street. 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: I remember her. When I was pregnant at the final stages, 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: I could hardly walk. I would get in a wheelchair 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: and get to a car, get to work, get in 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: another wheelchair, bewilled to the set and sit down in 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: the anchor chair. The viewers never knew how bad it was. 21 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: I really didn't realize it. My body was trying to 22 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: die and my lungs were full of blood clots. I 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: had no idea. I just knew I couldn't breathe. So 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: I'm imagining what Lacy Peterson must have felt like when 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: she went to walk her dog at over eight months pregnant. 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, she didn't go walk her dog. 27 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: That's just what Scott Peterson said in an effort to 28 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: get out of a murder one charge. I Nancy Grace, 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: The raging war goes on as Scott Peterson and his 31 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: family and defense team fight tooth and nail to get 32 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: him out of jail. That's right, Scott Peterson in another 33 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: legal battle right now, trying to get out of jail 34 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: after a jury convicts him in the murder of his 35 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: nine months pregnant wife, Lacy Peterson. It all seems like 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: it was just yesterday, but that is the legal process. 37 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: It's still happening now. Can it be stopped? Joining me 38 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: as an all star group of experts with me. Dr 39 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: Heather Walsh Haney Florida Gulf Coast University professor Alexis Terres 40 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: Chuck Radar online dot Com, who lived through the Scott 41 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: Peterson trial with me and renowned psychologist Dr. Bethany Marshall 42 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: joining us out of l a ladies, thank you. Let's 43 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: get right down to it what it boils down to 44 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: our newly discovered witnesses or so the defense says, that 45 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 1: swear they saw they saw Lacy at a time when 46 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: police say she was already dead. You can't have your 47 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: cake and eat it too. Let's start at the beginning. 48 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: This has all been stirred up by an on air special, 49 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: a documentary about whether Scott Peterson is innocent. First to you, 50 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: Alexis to Rest Chuck Radar Online dot Com. Tell me this. 51 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: Who are these new witnesses that swear swear and it's 52 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: just not one, it's like ten or eleven. Who are 53 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: these witnesses that say they saw Lacy Peterson alive and 54 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: well after cop says she was dead. These are eleven witnesses. 55 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: They are neighbors, but they're not next door neighbors. They 56 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: are people in the neighborhood who are now coming forward 57 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: and saying we told police we saw lazy walking her dog, 58 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: then we saw the dog in the park. And they 59 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: say this is after Scott Peterson would have gone to work, 60 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: so that this would completely exonerate him. And they said 61 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: that nobody ever talked to them and nobody ever followed 62 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: up with him. I find that very, very difficult to 63 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: believe that nobody followed up with them and nobody ever 64 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: talked to them, and if they knew something about the case. 65 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: To Dr Bethy Marshall, psychologist joining me out of l A, 66 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: why didn't they come forward? Why didn't didn't they come forward? Nancy, 67 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: You're absolutely correct. I was thinking about this from a 68 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: social psychology perspective. It makes me wonder if these neighbors, 69 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: who has Alexis pointed out, they're not primary neighbors, they're 70 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: not next door neighbors, if they feel left out and 71 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: all of a sudden they want to insert themselves into 72 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: the notoriety of the crime. You know, Scott Peterson is 73 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: getting so much prece again right now, and I think 74 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: they want to attach themselves to his star, so to speak. 75 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: You know, reporter was up there in a minute. Why 76 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: would you want to attach yourself to Scott Peterson? I 77 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a star. I call it maybe a 78 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: train straight to h E double L. It's just killing 79 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: me now that I've given up cursing. But anyway, that's 80 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: a whole another can of worms. Go ahead. Who why 81 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: do you what do you think about these people just 82 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: coming forward now? Because it's creating a big problem for prosecutors. 83 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson's conviction could very well be overturned because of 84 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: these quote newly discovered witnesses who are right there in 85 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: the neighborhood the whole time. So what's the deal, Bethany, Well, 86 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, but I was reading report about 87 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: one of the interviewers at Sam Quintin and they said 88 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: that he's looking boff. He was shirtless, he has kind 89 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: of a crushy environment he's in. He has a half 90 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: basketball court that's available to him on the roof above 91 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: him where where he's living now, above his um single cell. 92 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: And and it makes me feel that these neighbors want 93 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: to relive the excitement of the trial. They want to 94 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: be a part of it at this point. And you know, 95 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: people fill in all kinds of things with their memory. 96 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: They begin to tell themselves stories, They lie to themselves, 97 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the lie becomes truth. And 98 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: I think that that's what's happening in this case. You know, 99 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, I could have gone the whole day, 100 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: in the whole evening without thinking about Scott Peterson without 101 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: his shirt on. You know a lot of people think 102 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: Peterson is attractive. I never thought he was attractive. But 103 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: I want you to listen to one person that found 104 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: very attractive. She thought she had found Mr Wright. Listen 105 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: to this secretly recorded phone call that occurred on New 106 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: Year's Eve when everybody else was out looking desperately for 107 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: Lacy Peterson. Scott Peterson, her husband, was hiding from the press, 108 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: but he did make time to get off one quick 109 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: little phone call to his lover Amber Fry, And this 110 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: is what he says. Take a listen, I can hear you. Yes, okay, okay, 111 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm like stee steel or something. Work. How's your How 112 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: was man in here? How is your New Year? That's good? 113 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: Are now if they came out of an an hour 114 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: quiet alley that night? Yeah, it is very good. Evil 115 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: power the people playing Uh huh, that's pretty funny. Well 116 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: that's good. I'm glad you guys said to go out definitely. 117 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 1: I can never remember your friend's name. I know, Jeff, 118 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: but you always say on swans and then we have 119 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: a touch claw friend of our h oh he said, 120 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: oh yeah, all right, okay, resolution what with that should be? 121 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: What should my arglion be? Oh, I don't know, that 122 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: was my question. I didn't think of that. I'll tell 123 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: them good. Yeah, yeah, good. So where you headed? Um? Well, 124 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: I don't. Did you get my message? Yeah? I left 125 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: your message because I was like, oh, I hope you 126 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: really get that. But um, I was going to the 127 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: sec is the stuffing didn't work out, So I'm probably 128 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: most likely gonna go waiter to Shawn's. Are you there hello? 129 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: As I mentioned earlier, joining in addition to renowned psychologist 130 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, Dr Heather Walsh Haney, for instance, anthropologists also 131 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: with me Alexis to res Chuck water online dot com. 132 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: Dr Heather waltsh Heney, I mean now that Bethany Marshall. 133 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: I don't know how you work sex and physical attractiveness 134 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: into every scenario, Bethany, But that's a whole another can 135 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: of worms. Let's talk about Lacy for a moment. Scott 136 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: Peterson maybe buff showing off his physique. He has time 137 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: to work out with waits and play basketball. My husband's 138 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: out working right now, or he better be okay, he 139 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: didn't have time to go to the gym and get 140 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: buff all right. He may not be perfect, but he's 141 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: perfect for me. Let's talk about Lacey. Dr Heather Walsh Haney. 142 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: Tell me the condition. You know, just when I said this, 143 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: I got chills down my arms because I know the answer. 144 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: Tell me about the discovery of Lacy Peterson's body and 145 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: what it means to you. Dr Heather Walsh Haney. Well, 146 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: because the back to my knowledge, she was discovered in 147 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: salt water on a beach in the relatively early ages 148 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: of the process of decomposition. And what her remains really 149 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: speak to is not only her horrible murder, but the 150 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: fact that women are killed by intimate partners, husbands, and 151 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: boyfriends thirteen times more often than we are killed by strangers. 152 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: Her homicide is semicide, and when law enforcement started looking 153 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: for the killer, they knew exactly where to look first 154 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: to either get Scott Peterson out of the pool of 155 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: possible suspects or collect evidence to focus upon him, and 156 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: they upon my reading of the case, all of the 157 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,479 Speaker 1: scientific evidence that was put forth, including the forensic anthropology, 158 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: and I know the forensic anthropologist that evaluated Lacy who 159 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: is She's amazing, amazing woman and talented and puts her 160 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: heart in all of her work. Hold On, hold on, 161 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: hold on. This is something new to me. Who was 162 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: the forensic anthropologist, because I was very impressed with her 163 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: at the time. Her name was Dr Alison Galloway. She 164 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 1: I have published with her um. She has mentored me 165 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: throughout my career and her science is top notch. And 166 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: whatever evidence she presented at court, you know, was validated 167 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: and meticulous. You know. Dr Heather walts Cheney joining me, 168 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: h Dr waltsh Heeney is a forensic anthropologist, which is 169 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: a very very unique niche in the forensics field. Heather 170 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: walts Cheney can look or talk about a bone and 171 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: this is just amazing to me. She can tell you 172 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: whether the bone is male or female. She can look 173 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: at a mouth, a skull and tell you the age 174 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: of the person that there are ways to determine the 175 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: descent of the person. Are they Caucasian, are they African American? 176 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: Are they Hispanic? Are they Asian. I don't know how 177 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: you do it, but it's a very very defined science, 178 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: and it it just mesmerizes me. I can listen to 179 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: you talk all day, but I recall Dr Heather Walsh 180 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: Heney that first of all, the baby washed Ashore baby 181 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: Connor a baby boy. You know how much I'd love 182 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: to have another baby. I'll just put it out there. 183 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: My husband runs the other way when I say that, 184 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: because he says to is enough. You know, we go 185 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: to bed at midnight and get up at four with 186 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: just two. But this little baby washed Ashore. Dr Heather 187 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: Walsh Heney and observers said that it looked like a 188 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: little plastic, shiny baby doll. Now, Lacy's body was almost 189 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: it was very deteriorated. How did the baby look like 190 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: a little baby doll? Very pristine and untouched? Oh boy, 191 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: that would suggest to me that Lacy's infant was protected 192 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: by her body for many, many hours before the infant 193 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: was exposed to the elements. That's why there would be 194 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: a difference in the state of decomposition between the two. Right. 195 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: It's my understanding that a woman's uterus is one of 196 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: the thickest linings or muscles in her body, and that 197 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: over time is Lacy washed back and forth in the waves, 198 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: her uterus finally began to decompose, and at that point 199 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: baby Connor just really came out of the uterus, floated 200 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: out of her uterus and washed. Ashore got separated from 201 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: his mommy, right, I've never had a horrific, sad case 202 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: like that. It that is certainly possible. I think that 203 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: was the theory at trial. Wasn't that the theory at 204 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: trial like a stress chut because they could tell he 205 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: had not been born vaginally like a regular vaginal birth, 206 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: and they could tell there had been no secerian section done. Um. 207 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: One of the defense theories was that a woman had 208 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: kidnapped Lacey and held her captive to get the baby, 209 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: or cut her stomach open to get the baby. But 210 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: based on the body, that was not what happened at all, 211 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: and that the defense had even maybe floated the idea 212 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: of a satanic cult kidnapping, and no, this wasn't that 213 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: at all. The initial reports had said that the baby's 214 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: body was found with a rope tied around its neck, 215 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: and so that made people think that perhaps he had 216 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: been cut from her body, but it was a fiber friend. Yes, 217 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: degree from the ocean, so exactly. No, this was this 218 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: baby was in her body for a very long time 219 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: and probably right before they were found is when he 220 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: was out. You know, Dr Bethany Martial. All these witnesses 221 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: that are now coming forward eleven in total, that's a 222 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: pretty good amount of witnesses. If I were to state, 223 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: I would be concerned. Uh. And what you said, Dr 224 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: Bethany about them wanting to relive that excitement of the trial, 225 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: what do you mean by that, Well, I mean that 226 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: this was a very exciting case at the time, you know, Nancy, 227 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: this was the beginning of the seven our news cycle, 228 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of coverage of this case. 229 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: And it could be that many of these people who 230 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: were not primarily involved in the trial now want to 231 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: be involved in the case in a primary way. And 232 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: there was a lot of excitement, and a lot of 233 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: people live very boring lives, and it could be that 234 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: they want to relive that excitement to carry it forward, 235 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, if I could, if I could piggyback on 236 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: something Dr Heather Walsh Haney said too, and it might 237 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: relate to the neighbors, and that is that intimate homicide 238 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: is such a problem in our society. When a when 239 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: a woman is killed, it's often by someone that she knows. 240 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: And you know, Nancy, when a woman is pregnant, she's 241 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: at great risk for homicide if she's in a domestic 242 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: violence type situation because often these fathers who are personality disordered, 243 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: like Scott Peterson, they do not want to take up 244 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: the responsibilities of fatherhood. And it's in the context of 245 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: intimate relationships that all the emotions that lead to homicide 246 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: take place, you know, anger, resentment, jealousy, envy, anxiety, and 247 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: so to kind of link this back to the neighbors, 248 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: I think this could have become almost like an urban 249 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: myth in this neighborhood, this relationship, this beautiful wife, this 250 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: so called handsome husband, all the emotions that took place 251 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,479 Speaker 1: in this in this relationship. And you know, we're removed. 252 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: We I mean, we're in the media and we talk 253 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: about the case, but we're not in that neighborhood reliving 254 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: the stories and and trying to continue to figure out 255 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: what happened between this husband and wife. You know what's interesting, 256 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: as I walked the streets in that neighborhood so many 257 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: times and it's a beautiful little neighborhood. The streets are 258 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: tree lined, the houses are small, but they all have 259 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: you ever been in the neighborhood where the houses are small, 260 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: but they've all been like redone and repainted in the 261 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: front yards are pretty and they've got all these cute 262 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: decorations are straight out of h GTV, which I love. 263 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: And it looks it's a lovely little neighborhood. And then 264 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: when you go to the end of the street, there 265 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: is a fence on at one spot and there's an 266 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: olive I think it was an olive grove, an olive 267 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: orchard right behind there. It's modesto, you know, which is 268 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: a huge, huge farm in produce area. It's a beautiful 269 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: place to raise a child. But speaking of these new witnesses, 270 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: Alan Duke with me, the Duke joining me out of 271 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: l A. Allen. Is it A and E that's running 272 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: the Scott Peterson special. Yes, and they're airing the third 273 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: episode this week. But yeah, and that has created a 274 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: huge sensation and the state is listening. Now, this is 275 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: the problem I'm talking about for the state. Take a 276 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,239 Speaker 1: listen to what A and E managed to dig up. 277 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: It's a little scary for the prosecution. I'm a private 278 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: investigator here in Modesto. Scott hired Kirk McAllister for his 279 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: attorney approximately three days after Lacey was missing, so Mr. 280 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: McAllister hired me to see what happened to Lacy. Over 281 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, I talked to witnesses that 282 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: are able to very incredibly identify Lacey walking the dog 283 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: during the time period Scott is either at his warehouse 284 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: or on his way to the Berkeley Marine. We believe 285 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: that Lacey left home sometime after that to go walk 286 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: the dog, and she would have headed this way down 287 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: Covina Avenue. I speak with Homer Aldonado, he and his 288 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: wife who are neighbors, and sometime between nine fifty am 289 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: and ten am, they go out driving to deliver some 290 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: Christmas presents to friends. When I pulled out on Miller Avenue, 291 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: that's when I looked over to the right and I 292 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: noticed a young lady struggling with the dog and very pregnant. 293 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: The dog raised up and I just remember telling him 294 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: I hope she doesn't fall, and then we just went 295 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: about our business for that day. I speak to Tony 296 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: Freda's a route driver for a bread company here locally 297 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: in Modesto, he sees a young woman who is pregnant 298 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: walking a golden retriever on the Loma Avenue at ten 299 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: o eight am. Scott makes a telephone call to his 300 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: voicemail that's actually triangulated by the police to verify he 301 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: is on his way to the warehouse. I speak to 302 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: another witness, Mr Aguilar, with my wife within this lady 303 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: running a little bit down a little my avenue. You're 304 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: too pregnant to be out in the coal and no 305 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: jacket and nothing I told my wife had put she 306 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: must be crazy. Between ten a m. In ten thirty 307 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: and we have more sightings, their time periods coincide very closely. 308 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: And then these witnesses that see her walking the dog 309 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: plot out in a perfect circle about a forty five 310 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: minute walk, which is normally what she took. Look up 311 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: here you can see the area where Diana Campos would 312 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: have been sitting, and that's where she observed someone matching 313 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: Lacey's description walking the dog. Two men. We're following Lacy, 314 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: and the dog was barking at the men, and the 315 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: two men yelled at Lacey, shut that dog up. If 316 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: Diana Campos is correct in her observations. This might be 317 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: the last sighting of Lacey Peterson alive on December two 318 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: thousand and two. Right now, shock waves are going through 319 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: the courthouse there in Modesto because eleven witnesses have now 320 00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: come forward claiming that they saw Lacy Peterson alive and 321 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: well after the police say she was dead, her body 322 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: being taken to the San Francisco Bay and being dumped 323 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: in a fishing marina. It took days weeks, but the 324 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 1: body of their unborn child, baby Connor, washed ashore and 325 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: twenty four hours later and essentially the next tide, the 326 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: mom Lacy Peterson washed ashore as well. Is the conviction 327 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: of Scott Peterson now in jeopardy. A and E has 328 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: come forward with a documentary that outlines the so called 329 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: new evidence and the state better be ready now. One 330 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: of the states most powerful witnesses was Scott Peterson's lover. Okay, 331 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: and I've met her many times. She is not a 332 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: scarlet woman that she's been made out to be. Amber 333 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: Fry truly believed she found Mr. Right. Well, he was 334 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: more like Mr Right now, Okay, not really Mr. Right 335 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: because it wasn't long that she discovered not only was 336 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: he married, but married to a missing woman. Now listen 337 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: to Amber Fry herself as she explains how she feel 338 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: for this guy, a fertilizer salesman. You know, we got 339 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: a word for that. But how does she fall for him? 340 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: I don't even find him attractive. Listen to Amber Fry 341 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: in her own words. In two thousand two, I just 342 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: put myself through massage school. My daughter was almost eighteen 343 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: months old. I felt really content and good where my 344 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: life was going. In Fresno. My friend Shawn told me 345 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: about this guy that she had met at a work convention. 346 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: His name was Scott Peterson. She was like, he's perfect 347 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: for you. At this point in my life, I didn't 348 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: need a randomly date different people, and I was looking 349 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: for the one, and that's what Scott said. He was 350 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: also looking for the one. I had no idea that 351 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: I was being introduced to a married man. Straight out 352 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: to psychologist Dr Bethany Marshall, What was she thinking, Dr Bethany? 353 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, I can only try to keep in 354 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: mind that the features of what I think is his 355 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: personality disorder, a sociopathic personality disorder. These men are so charming, superficial, glib. 356 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: They are never tongue tied the way they lie. It's 357 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: the lies just roll off their tongue. And you know, 358 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: you know an Amber Frya is in front of the 359 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: microphone and she's sort of saying she's so sorry to 360 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: the family. And I take a look at her. She 361 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: looks so frail. She hasn't even combed her hair. Really, 362 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: it's sort of up in a bond. She looks her 363 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: hands are shaking, and I think she's contract contrasting in 364 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: her mind this fertile, certain salesman who was so charming 365 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: with this whole family, who's devastating, and she must have 366 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: had such a shock when she realized what was really 367 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: going on. But but Nancy, I think he just conned her. 368 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: I mean the tape that they played on any where. 369 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: He says he's in Paris and he's with Pascal, and 370 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: you know, she's chatting with him on the phone and 371 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: he's right there in Modesto. Can you imagine if she 372 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: had not been kind of prepped by the police officers 373 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: and by the press that that he was really um 374 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: a potential felon, a potential wife murder, how far she 375 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: would have gone in this story before she really realized 376 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,239 Speaker 1: what was going on. Thank god, she might have been 377 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: another victim, you know, alexis torres chuck at the time. 378 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: I remember when Lycy first went missing and it wasn't 379 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: really a big story, and we were getting ready to 380 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: do our live show that night on ns HL in 381 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: and it's like this, with all the stories that we covered, 382 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: nobody really knows about it yet. And I heard about 383 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: a missing woman and I'm like, let's do that. She's pregnant, 384 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: we gotta help. We did it, and right out the 385 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: get go, Scott Peterson's affect was very unusual to me. 386 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: But after we did that, it seemed like the case, 387 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: the missing person's case, caught on fire. How could Scott 388 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: Peterson really think Amber knew nothing about it. I guess 389 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: that's why he kept laying low so he wouldn't be pictured. 390 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: I think he lived in a complete fantasy world, which 391 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall could talk about better than I could. 392 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: But he was doing basically everything that you would expect 393 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: a criminal to do. He sold Lacey's car like five 394 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: seconds after she disappeared. Who does that? Wait a minute, 395 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: Alex says he didn't just try to sell her car. 396 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: He tried to sell the house, tried to get rid 397 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: of the car, and immediately before they even found her body, 398 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: only a couple of days past before, he ordered the 399 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: porn channel for his house. You know what, that'll be 400 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: a cold day in h E double l that what. 401 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: I go out to walk the dog and my husband 402 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: orders the porn channel. That doesn't make sense, but Alexis, 403 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: the news coverage was incredible. Remember because she was beautiful, 404 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: she was eight and a half months pregnant. Everybody wanted 405 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: to help find her. And he couldn't have been a 406 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: bigger jerk, honestly, he he was laughing everywhere. He immediately 407 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: spoke about Lacy in the past tense. It was disgusting. 408 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,479 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to Scott Peterson lying to Amber 409 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: Fry on a secretly recorded phone conversation. Row it okay, 410 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: so why did you fall through? Or go ahead and 411 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: men and have this day and and and do all 412 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: these things with me and tell me, always says why? 413 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: But what purpose did I served in your life during 414 00:25:54,280 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: this last monthly? You know you're so special? Yeah? I did? 415 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: And so what are you telling me your wife was not? I? 416 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: I cannot think. Yeah, there's a lot of things you're 417 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: not wanting to explain to me right now, Scott, I 418 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: want you want to, but you can't because why many 419 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: people would be hurt? Too many people are hurt. Now 420 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: if you're telling me this is international or national, don't 421 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: you do? So? How is that going to put any 422 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: more hurt than that's already out there? Now? How would 423 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: you think this one? Just break my heart? To meet 424 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: someone and you know I would tell you where I'm 425 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: at my life, and you know I'm getting studying my 426 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: own business. I just moved out from during the chiropractic 427 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: and you know I've what I've been through in my 428 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: life already to this day. You're very well aware of it. 429 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: We've spent any times on the phone or even together 430 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: and me talking about these things. How would you How 431 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: could you possibly not think you being married would affect me? 432 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: How I don't know how to answer that right? Uh? God, 433 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to hit again. But and you obviously gone. 434 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: I had no idea it happened. Sounds like I can't no, no, no, really, 435 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: I know you can't believe and you should help, but 436 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: I should I should believe you that no you can like, 437 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: that's not what I think for disappearance because I had 438 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: nothing to do it. Oh my god, I had nothing 439 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: to do it. Then who did? We don't have any idea, really, Sarah. 440 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: The robbery here and you know, there's the Robert had 441 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: something to do with my disappearance as he disappeared. The robbery. 442 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: Huh and still people pregnant people for that. I'm telling 443 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: you that the police the lead. Oh, those are the 444 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: only leads they've indicated. Yeah. Really, well, they're not sharing 445 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: anything with me. They have it. What they're not sharing 446 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: anything with me. They're not sharing what with you? Invetiation 447 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: kept from the church by It's unbelievable, Scott. I'm con 448 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: how sorry you are being computed? You know what I 449 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: will I'll give you a suggestion of a word of advice. 450 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 1: Never apologize to someone on the phone. I should come 451 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: down there. If you're gonna come down to my house tonight, no, 452 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: I should have him, really, and then what you're gonna come. 453 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to know you've lied to Member Nomber. No 454 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: coming to your house tonight. But what I'm saying that 455 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: I wanted to do that, really, so you want everything 456 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: in your time and your time frame of No, I 457 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: am framing hings. Not much really, it's just very coincidental. Scott. 458 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: My god, Amber, No, you don't think remember when I 459 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: told you, you know, the night of that dance. I said, 460 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: when I was, I came to you because I was upset, 461 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: because I said, Sean knew about this before me. You 462 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: told me you had talked to her. You told Sara 463 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: you had lost your wife. And again, what loss? And 464 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: since are you speaking of exactly exactly what did? There 465 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: are many ti what kind of lost was that? I 466 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: can't tell you why I did. I can't act. I 467 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: can't active me. I didn't. I can't tell you and 468 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: I will be able in the future to me that 469 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. An you wrong? I can't. I can 470 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: only saying that would ever make me or change my 471 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: mind in any way is that she's show and she 472 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: is found alive. It comes to out of way. But 473 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: right now, as much as I'd like to keep listening 474 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: to Scott Peterson lying on the phone to Amber fry Um, 475 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: many people say she was the final nail in the 476 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: coffin against Peterson, but a new trial for Scott Peterson 477 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: no way. According to brand New court filings, Alexis to 478 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: rest Chuck. What have we learned that the state is 479 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: saying about these eleven new witnesses. They completely torpedoed the 480 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: state's theory that she was already dead when they saw her. 481 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: They say that this is absolutely not credible. They say 482 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: the credible witnesses are the ones the next door neighbor 483 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: who found the dog found the dog wandering the street. 484 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: Alicia was attached. This is before the other witnesses say 485 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: they found them, and this was not something that the 486 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: police had really publicized. They didn't say, oh, the next 487 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: door neighbor found the dog at six o five pm. 488 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: They just knew. So when these new witnesses came forward 489 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: and said they saw the dog, they knew that it 490 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: could not have happened. But this is just another scam 491 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: by Scott to pretend like he's Innothent, you know. Dr 492 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: Heather Walsh Haney joining me from Florida Gulf Coast University 493 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: for Instant Anthropologists. Before I ask you what you would 494 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: expect to find in her body regarding cause of death. 495 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, I want to go back to these 496 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: eleven witnesses. You know, I once had a judge, and 497 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: he was a great, great judge. His name was Luther 498 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: Alverson and he dr Bethany Marshall, I've told you about 499 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: it before, was the oldest judge in the courthouse. In fact, 500 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: he was so old that he wanted to try more 501 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: cases than any other judge and keep the lowest jail count. 502 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: Jail count meant that, so you get a hundred and 503 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: fifty new felons a week, and you've got to handle 504 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: their cases. If they're all sitting in jail, you've got 505 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: two hundred people on your court docket that are sitting 506 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: in jail. That means you haven't played those cases out 507 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: or you haven't tried him. So whichever d a went 508 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: to his courtroom knew they had to go on trial 509 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: every other week, which meant you had to be trying 510 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: the case in getting cases ready at the same time, 511 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: so he could keep his jail count. Damn. And I 512 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: am proud to say when I was assigned to his courtroom, 513 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: we had the lowest jail count because I would go 514 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: on trial every other week of my life. And my 515 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: point that I'm getting to is that this jul judge 516 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: was so old he got grandfathered in He was on 517 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: the bench before there was mandatory retirement, so he didn't 518 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: have to retire. But it was my job to keep 519 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: our jail count down. So we were on trial all 520 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: the time, and he would tell juries Dr Bethany. He 521 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: would say, it is your duty to make all the 522 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: witnesses speak the truth and inmping perjury on no one. 523 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: In other words, is there a way to believe all 524 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: the witnesses but reconcile their testimony? In other words, is 525 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: there a way these eleven people saw something. They thought 526 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: it was Lazier, they thought it was that day, or 527 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: they thought it was that dog. Because Alexis ures Chuck 528 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: just told us that the new court filings by the 529 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: States say the neighbor had found the dog with the 530 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: leash and taking it and put it in the in 531 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: Lacey's backyard, when these new witnesses claimed they saw Lacy 532 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: with the dog. So how can we reconcile all their testimony? 533 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, I think that the way our brains 534 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 1: work sometimes is that our belief systems override reality. Okay, 535 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,760 Speaker 1: so sometimes we we human beings, can tell ourselves a lie. 536 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: A lie might be, oh I need that two thousand 537 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: dollar dress. I'll put it on my credit card right now, 538 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: or um, you know it doesn't. Did you just say 539 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: a two thousand dollar dress? Okay, I must I need 540 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: to to have your job. Actually, your dresses do look 541 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: like they could cost two thousand dollars. Okay, you know, 542 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: but you know I'm going to stick with my black 543 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: stretch tights. Go ahead, all right. So, so we tell 544 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: ourselves something and then you know, our brain wants to 545 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: believe that that this thing is correct, this is this 546 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: is the truth what we're telling ourselves, and then we 547 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: build a narrative around it to justify it. And I 548 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: can imagine these neighbors, these families in this neighborhood having 549 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: a belief that has sort of festered in Roan over 550 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: all these years. That belief is a strongly held one 551 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: that they saw Lacy Peterson, and they have been building 552 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: a narrative to justify the belief. Does that make sense. 553 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: They've told themselves stories that will buttress and support whatever 554 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: they think happened that day, even if it's not the truth, 555 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,399 Speaker 1: and we know it's not the truth based upon what 556 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: alexis Torres dress, Chuck is telling us. It's interesting. You know, 557 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: my husband is a judge, and so we talk at 558 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: the end of the day about what happens in his 559 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: court room. And he doesn't believe anybody, you know, none 560 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: of the witnesses, none of the people who come in. 561 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: He feels that they come in with a strong, strong 562 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: belief system and then they just back it up. However, 563 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: they're going to back it up even though they're in 564 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,919 Speaker 1: a court of law. Well, there's another psychological twist going 565 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: on here. And Heather wall Tiny Alexis Torres, Chuck, I 566 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: know you're familiar with this guy, my al sparring buddy. Well, 567 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: let me just say my l sparring opponent. That's more appropriate. 568 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: Mark Garrighos. Okay, Now he is slippery as an ill, 569 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: I am telling you, Okay. But people that are now 570 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: questioning Scott Petersons celebrity lawyer, claiming he botched the trial, Um, 571 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't just I don't agree with that because I 572 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 1: know Mark Garrighos. Okay. It's not like we go out 573 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: and have coffee together anything like that, but I know him. 574 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: I have been dealing with him in person and at 575 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,439 Speaker 1: a distance via satellite from many many years. And there 576 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: is no way that of these people it were on 577 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: the map, on the radar at all, and they were legitimate. 578 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: There is no way Mark Garrigos would not have brought 579 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: them on. I mean he was doing back flips to 580 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: come up with defense theories. Dr Bethany, Hey, Alexis, do 581 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: you remember at one point he floated the idea I 582 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: think he did it with me, Larry King of a 583 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: Hawaiian what was it, a Hawaiian burglary gang or Hawaiian 584 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: dope gang got Lacey for what? What? What are they 585 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: gonna do with lazy and nine months pregnant woman? A 586 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: dope gang? What exactly? He had these crazy theories that 587 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: he never actually produced any evidence for during the trial, 588 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: which is what he can talk desperate. I mean, he 589 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: was trying to win the case for Pete's sake, and 590 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 1: of course they were all lies. But look, you want 591 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: to have a serial system like we have in the US, 592 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: then that's what you get. You get a defense attorney 593 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,280 Speaker 1: who was very experienced and they come up with whatever 594 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: theory will help their client. And if you're charged with murder, 595 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: you'd want your lawyer to do the same thing. Do anything, 596 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: just get me out of here. So Garigs came up 597 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 1: with all sorts of theories. But now he's under fire. Uh, 598 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: he's being the scapegoat, claiming he boughts the trial, that 599 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 1: he didn't do a good job. And I really believe 600 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: Alexis that people questioning his performance, not that I agree 601 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: with him. We fight like cats and dogs. Uh, people 602 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 1: questioning him are ignoring overwhelming evidence that Scott Peterson killed 603 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: his wife and dumped her body in the bay. I 604 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: am actually, God help me defending Mark Garri goes here, 605 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: help me, Alexis, Have I lost my mind? You have completely, 606 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: because you know he has been talking since since y'all 607 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: show came out with with you and he on the 608 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: show and he's saying, oh yeah, there is really a 609 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: lot of evidence they didn't allow in basically just slamming himself. 610 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: So I think that he's just trying to help his 611 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: client since he lost the case so brutally. Because Scott 612 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: Peterson is guilty of killing his wife. The discovery of 613 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: brand new witnesses eleven witnesses that we know of claiming 614 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,720 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson is not guilty. Why because they say, without 615 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: a otto of a doubt, they are absolutely certain they 616 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: saw Lacy Peterson alive and well after police say she 617 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: was already dead and with me Dr Bethany Marshall out 618 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: of l A. Dr Heather waltsh Heeney, forensic anthropologist, professor 619 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: at Florida Gulf Coast University and radar onlines. Alexis terres Chuck, 620 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: you know the attack on Mark Garrigos, claiming that he 621 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: boughts the trial by not bringing these witnesses forward. Well, 622 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: according to court documents, these witnesses do not exonerate Scott Peterson. 623 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: What do we know, Alexis terres Chuck, Well, Scott Peterson 624 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: is trying to say that there are eleven new witnies, 625 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: eleven people ten fifteen years later after he killed his 626 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,800 Speaker 1: wife that have all of a sudden said that nobody 627 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: ever spoke to them, and that they had all this 628 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: bombshell evidence that they tried to give cops, and the 629 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: cops ignored because that's the new thing when you know, 630 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: documentaries come out as that people say all the cops 631 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: did everything. We're so the prosecutors who put this man 632 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: on death row are saying this is absolutely not credible. 633 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: These people offered information that completely was the opposite of 634 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,879 Speaker 1: the solid proof they had, Like physically when the dog 635 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: was found by the neighbors and returned. They're saying they 636 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: saw lazy walking this dog afterwards did not happen. And 637 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: in fact, Mark Garregs must have known that they were 638 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: not credible, because he did not put them on the stand. 639 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: And as you said, he's a good lawyer, Well, that 640 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: would have been that would have been devastating. It's better 641 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: don't put him on the stand than hands your defense 642 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: on them. Put him on the stand and have it 643 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: destroyed and cross examination. Better the jury think your client 644 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: is an ass and remained silent, then speak and confirmed 645 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: their suspicions. That's my theory. And opening statements at the trial, 646 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: Mark Garrego seemed to promise he would exonerate Scott Peterson 647 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: with eyewitness testimony from the very people in the neighborhood 648 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: there in Lolma and at a nearby park after her 649 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: husband leaves to go fishing, that would have made it 650 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: completely impossible for him to have killed her. Now, these 651 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: witnesses who have appeared and are appearing in a seven 652 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: hour documentary on A and E were never put on 653 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: the witness stand. Neither were those burglars who were identified 654 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: later and played guilty that took a safe from a 655 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,879 Speaker 1: home on Covina Avenue, that's Lacy's address. Now, why didn't 656 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: they testify Because according to the state documents that have 657 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: just been filed, the neighborhood witnesses were not believable and 658 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: the burglary have a December not December twenty four when 659 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,239 Speaker 1: Lacy went missing. Now it's my understanding, alexis, the timeline 660 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: was really kicked off by a next door neighbor who 661 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: finds the dog, Mackenzie, Lacy's Golden retriever Lisa attached because Mark, 662 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,760 Speaker 1: Because excuse me, Mark, he had like that because Scott 663 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,240 Speaker 1: Peterson lent him out with his collar on and his leash. 664 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: They find, she finds the dog and brings them back. 665 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: The burglary victims left the home after the dog was found. Repeat, 666 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: the burglary victims left their home after the dog was found, 667 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: which means, alexis that by the time when the neighbor 668 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: found the dog and brought it back, the burglary had 669 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 1: not even happened yet and Lacey was already dead. Now, 670 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,480 Speaker 1: the purported or alleged sidings of Lacey were many, many, 671 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,240 Speaker 1: many seventy four sidings in twenty six states and even 672 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: across the oceans. Um, what do you make about all this? 673 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: Because right now the Habeas corpus appeal is happening. It 674 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: happening right now, and there is a girard Rochelle and 675 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: I nicknamed her Strawberry Shortcake on the air because of 676 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: her Her hair color was the color strawberries, So I 677 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: named a strawberry shortcake because of her her hair die 678 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,399 Speaker 1: and she failed to mention she had been assaulted when 679 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: she was expecting four years earlier, and they claimed that 680 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: she should have been thrown out. Those are some of 681 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: the claims they're making. Alexis, I think that they're grasping 682 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: for straws because they don't actually have any solid evidence. 683 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: They have nothing that shows that that Scott was anywhere 684 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: other than where he was, which is at the house 685 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: killing his wife. And in fact, these documents even say 686 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: that that they are really saying the judge let in 687 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: a lot of evidence that shouldn't have been let in 688 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: what he left, like what the dog evidence, because they 689 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: argued hell and high water that the tracking dog that 690 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 1: picked up Lacey sent at the Berkeley Marina where Scott 691 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: Peterson went fishing that day and he has a receipt 692 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: to show he is there. That's his story that he 693 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,479 Speaker 1: was there where her body was done. The dog picked 694 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: up Lacy sent at Berkeley Marina four days after Scott 695 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: Peterson was there. I think with her body in his boat. 696 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: That came in at trial. But alexis correct me if 697 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 1: I'm wrong. There was more dog scent evidence that didn't 698 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: come in. Judge al du Luki threw it out. And 699 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,959 Speaker 1: that dog picked up Lacey's body sent between her home 700 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: and her husband's warehouse where he made those cement blocks. 701 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 1: He didn't let that in. The jury never even heard that. Yeah, 702 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,399 Speaker 1: never at all, And so that just shows how much 703 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: more they actually had against him. These dogs are really trustworthy. 704 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: This isn't something that you can make up. Dogs don't 705 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: have any reason to lie. They just do their job, 706 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: which is to track a scent, and they find it 707 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: at the warehouse. It's a direct correlation to show that 708 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:52,320 Speaker 1: Scott that's where he packaged her up, weighted her body down, 709 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: and put her in his boat. You know, I have 710 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: often said the best witnesses I ever put on the 711 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,360 Speaker 1: stand were dogs. Juries love them, and they can't lie. 712 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 1: Scientific evidence cannot be beaten. And that's why we have 713 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: with us a very special guest today from ends to 714 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: anthropologist Dr Heather Walsh Haney from f g CU. She's 715 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: a professor there, Dr walsh Haney. With her body having 716 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,919 Speaker 1: been submerged in the water for so long, how would 717 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: that affect her remains? What does water do to the 718 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: human body? Typically UM in from bracktige to fresh to 719 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: salt water. What happens is that the water will slow 720 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: down our bodies UM decomposition process. So in the field 721 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 1: of forensic anthropology, what we tend to say is UM 722 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: two weeks of the human remains on the surface would 723 00:45:53,880 --> 00:46:00,319 Speaker 1: be equal to four weeks submerged in water because the 724 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:07,399 Speaker 1: presence of water will slow down the rate of decomposition. Sadly, though, 725 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:13,800 Speaker 1: there is very little UM research where we have used 726 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: human donations in water settings, and UM collected UH data 727 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: every day, every couple of days, and every month. So 728 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:29,360 Speaker 1: what we really have is meta analysis that through cases 729 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 1: like this one where we know when the victim was missing, 730 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: we know when the victim was found, and then we 731 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 1: backtracked through the evidence to see how our our bodies change. 732 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,800 Speaker 1: And so one of the things that can also happen 733 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 1: is that our extremities will fall away from our remains 734 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: in UM a water setting. UM. Unfortunately, to that also 735 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: means that defensive wounds that could be on the hands 736 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,280 Speaker 1: or on the forearms may be gone because those those 737 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 1: extremities will disappear over time him and water UM. But 738 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 1: the other thing that's interesting is the human remains detect 739 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 1: or dog evidence. I had forgotten that these dogs have 740 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:14,720 Speaker 1: been used now. At the time of Lacy's disappearance, human 741 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: remains detector dogs were not used um to the extent 742 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: that they are now, and now we know so much 743 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: more about their ability to detect decomposing human remains above 744 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,840 Speaker 1: and beyond non human They will exclude non human remains, 745 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: they will exclude garbage and these remains. These dogs are 746 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: specifically trained on human decomposing scent. And to know that 747 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: the dogs were hitting and following that trail to the 748 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:47,239 Speaker 1: warehouse is is amazing evidence that I think now if 749 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,320 Speaker 1: the handlers had their training records on the human remains 750 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,040 Speaker 1: detector dogs, that's evidence that could be brought into court now. 751 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,320 Speaker 1: That prop that it sounds like wasn't allowed into court 752 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 1: during the original trial. You know, doctor Heather Watch Cheney, 753 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,920 Speaker 1: I had made notes to try to keep up with you. 754 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 1: One of my next no, no, no. One of my 755 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,719 Speaker 1: next notes, one of my next notes was about her 756 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,239 Speaker 1: extremities were off her body her It was basically a 757 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,840 Speaker 1: torso that was found. I think she still had on 758 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: an eternity bra and I think her pants were found somewhere. 759 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,760 Speaker 1: But regarding her extremities, I'm talking about arms and legs. 760 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: Her being in the water, would that have precluded us 761 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,880 Speaker 1: finding tool markings such as was she dismembered by a 762 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:41,400 Speaker 1: saw or some other type of tool? Well, and thinking 763 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,720 Speaker 1: about my own casework and the published literature, if someone 764 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 1: is dismembered UM with a saw or a hatchet, usually 765 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 1: those cut marks will be found on the intact torso, 766 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,920 Speaker 1: even though the extremities are gone on you know that 767 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,920 Speaker 1: blade cut through the bone, marking both sides of it, 768 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 1: the side where the extremity has gone and then the 769 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,000 Speaker 1: side that is still intact with the torso. So it 770 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: sounds to me like as though if that evidence wasn't 771 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,800 Speaker 1: brought in at court, it's unlikely that UM an instrument 772 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,880 Speaker 1: like that was used, right, I think that the water 773 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 1: uh decomposed her body. Guys, this is not just a 774 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: special on A and E. A and These. The Murder 775 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,360 Speaker 1: of Lacy Peterson is airing on Tuesday's is an episode 776 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,040 Speaker 1: each week for six weeks, stretching for a total of 777 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:45,480 Speaker 1: seven hours, and it features Amber Fry, Scott Peterson's then girlfriend, 778 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 1: and has jurars um anchors, reporters, detectives, lawyers, all sorts 779 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,040 Speaker 1: of people. And we also hear from Scott Peterson because 780 00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: his sister in law, Jamie Peterson, calls him from behind bars. 781 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: He's there in San Quentin, and you can just say 782 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,760 Speaker 1: whatever he wants to. That's that's easy because whose cross 783 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: examining him. He did not stand up and testifying in 784 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,239 Speaker 1: front of the jury. I can tell you that much 785 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,879 Speaker 1: because he didn't want to be cross examined. So now 786 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,280 Speaker 1: he's talking to his sister in law on the phone 787 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,080 Speaker 1: and no one is there to challenge him. But it's 788 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,760 Speaker 1: not just an A and E special, which is really riveting. 789 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,880 Speaker 1: It is an ongoing legal battle. The Habeas Corpus appeal 790 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: has been filed claiming his constitutional rights were violated. It's 791 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:41,360 Speaker 1: on and we're watching. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 792 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:42,960 Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend,