1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Live Again a production of Psycopia 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Pictures and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: This beach was dangerous. I just realized that, being sucked 4 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: down the coastline, and then I just see ocean, trying 5 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: to stay oriented and now you know, and then facing 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: these waves and try to time my breathing. Meanwhile the 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: panic is setting it and in my body it felt 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: like I'd been doing this forever, because I was just 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: feeling how heavy and fatigued I was getting. As the 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 2: water is going up over my head. There was that 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 2: initial I'm going to fight it, and then I made 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: peace with it. 13 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people his lives were 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand 16 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death. 17 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please 19 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: for some listener, and discretion is advised. 21 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: My name is Frankie Mullinix. I was originally born in Toronto, 22 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 2: Canada and then my family moved with me when I 23 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 2: was about six years old to Vancouver, so we're right 24 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: on the West Coast, and I lived there until I 25 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: graduated with my undergraduate degree, and then I ended up 26 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: moving from there to live in Brisbane, Australia. 27 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 3: I moved to Australia because I had graduated from this 28 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: wonderful theater program and in the course of that program, 29 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: on the side, there was a theater company that was 30 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 3: coming to Vancouver and teaching, but they were located in Australia, and. 31 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: The people involved, it was like everything they were doing 32 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: was what I wanted to be a part of. And 33 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: I thought that the discipline, the rigor the forms that 34 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: they used to create with I was like, this is it, 35 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 2: this is this is my life. I'm going to move 36 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: to Australia. I'm majoring this theater company and that's it. 37 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: I was almost twenty five and I had met this individual. 38 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: And I don't know if it was the place that 39 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: we met. We kind of met it like a weekend 40 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: retreat sort of thing, so like you know, meditation, like 41 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: just feeling a little removed from the hubbub or whatever. 42 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: And I met this beautiful, beautiful stunning individual and we 43 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: had an Easter break. We were going to spend Easter 44 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: living out of a van, tooling up and down the 45 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: coast of US. And I am not a fly by 46 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: the seat of my pants. I don't think of myself 47 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: as like fun. I also know I was raised like 48 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: I have a mother who likes things to be planned. 49 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 2: You know. I'd have friends made pick up the phone 50 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: and be like hey, come over. 51 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 4: Now. 52 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 2: That was very disruptive, right, So things had to be 53 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 2: very planned, and so it was kind of exciting to 54 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: try this persona I can be fun, I can be 55 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: whatever this is. I could be semi farah living out 56 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: of this van, but is not my natural state. I 57 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: believe we'd been together for about three days or so, 58 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: and this individual liked to surf. We went to a 59 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: beach and by this point I was a little bit bored. 60 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: I don't want to sit on the beach read my book. 61 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: I am a doer, and so this individual had gone 62 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: out to surf and I was like, you know, I'm 63 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: gonna go for a swim Like I used to be 64 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: competitive swimmer. I need to swim, I need to move 65 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: my body a little bit. Time for me to go swim, 66 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: get into the water, and the surf on this beach 67 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: was no joke, not really having a good time, just 68 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: kind of getting far enough out from the crashing waves 69 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 2: that I'm not constantly ducking and getting slammed in the 70 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: face with the water. I look back on the shore 71 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: and I realize I have been dragged significantly past where 72 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 2: I entered the water. There's an undertow going on, and 73 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: the surfers are way over on the other side of 74 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: the beach. I have no experience with this whatsoever. Vancouver. 75 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: We are protected by islands. It's a pretty, you know, 76 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: calm area in terms of beach life, and this is 77 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 2: not that. I just realize I'm being sucked down the 78 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: coastline and all I can see is an outcropping of rocks, 79 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: and then I just see ocean. I have no mental 80 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: map of this, and so I decide that I'm going 81 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: to try to kind of turn in swim to the 82 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: outcropping of rocks that are in front of me and 83 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: try to drag myself up. So I'm swimming to with 84 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 2: the rocks, trying to grab onto rocks, getting sucked out 85 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: by the waves, and then I'm having to turn around 86 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: and face the waves so that as the wave then 87 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: crashes over my head, I can take a breath, duck underneath, 88 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 2: turn around and try and grab more rocks. So I'm 89 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: trying to prevent the rocks from hitting my head, and 90 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: this is happening over and over and over again, trying 91 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: to stay oriented and not you know, and then facing 92 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 2: these waves and try to time my breathing. Meanwhile the 93 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: panic is setting it so I can feel this sort 94 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: of anxiety hyperventilation thing building and building inside of me. 95 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,119 Speaker 2: I did have a moment where I broke and started 96 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: to cry out help. Something about being raised as a 97 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: girl and a woman is kind of this, like don't 98 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 2: let anyone see you struggle. You don't admit that you 99 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: are not okay, internalize everything, kind of laugh it off 100 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: and then go have a meltdown later. Time telescopes right, 101 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: and because it was this repetitive thing of facing the wave, 102 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: taking your breath, decking under, turning around, you know, holding rocks, 103 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 2: just having to find this rhythm with the ebb and 104 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: flow of the waves, and in my body, it felt 105 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: like I'd been doing this forever because I was just 106 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 2: feeling how heavy and fatigued I was getting every moment 107 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 2: feels menified. I am sure. It was just I don't know, 108 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: three five, seven minutes, it just it kind of felt 109 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: like this is it. And I had this moment like 110 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: you know what, I am am fed, I am done? 111 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: Why am I fighting this hard? I can feel my 112 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: body getting more and more tired fighting the ocean? No one, 113 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 2: I'm not going to win this. And so I completely 114 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: had this moment of giving up, complete surrender. My life 115 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: did not flash before my eyes, but I just felt 116 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: my body like it was almost like opening my arms 117 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: up and just being like, all right, you got me right. 118 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 2: At that moment, the lifeguards show up, so you know, 119 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 2: of course, with they're training, they're not gonna get down 120 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: where I am because it is the worst place to be. 121 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: I am now stuck. Well, I guess I have to 122 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: try a little longer. And this man, this random man 123 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: who probably just came for a beach day, he shows 124 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: up on the rocks where I'm trying to hold on. 125 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: He gets down and he manages to grab me and 126 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: kind of push me up or pull me up just 127 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: enough on the rocks, and he kind of helps me 128 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: to where the lifeguards are. And at that point he 129 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: just disappears. He is the hardest person for me to 130 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: fill in, which is so strange. I have no memory 131 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: of this man's face. That's sort of the mythic part 132 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: of this. So he deposits me with these lifeguards, goes off, 133 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: and the lifeguards are administering me oxygen and they were 134 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: sort of sticking all this little butterfly thingies on me, 135 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: just cleaning my wounds and everything. And they explained to 136 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 2: me how dangerous that area was. They said, we had death, 137 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 2: you know, five days ago in the same area. They 138 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: really wanted to impress on me, like how near to 139 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: dying I had come, and how dangerous that area was. 140 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: I am in so much of a panic and kind 141 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: of a shame spot, like I all they know is 142 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: that I'm saying like I'm sorry, I'm so embarrassed, over 143 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: and over and over again. And they realized that I 144 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: was in need of a little more first attention than 145 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 2: they could give me on the beach, and so they 146 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: put me in their van and they drove me down 147 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 2: the road to wherever their sort of lifeguard building. They 148 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: didn't have to do stitches, but I was. I was 149 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: cut from the chin down. 150 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 5: I was just like raw lots of slashes all over 151 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 5: my body, and so they basically like cleaned me up, 152 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 5: slapped a bunch of those butterfly things like escape my 153 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 5: skin to edges together. 154 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 2: Now that I'm thinking about it. There was a debate 155 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 2: about whether they would take me to the hospital, and 156 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: I was like so in my shame spiral that I 157 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,719 Speaker 2: was like no, absolutely adamant that I did not want you. 158 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: I had this person I barely knew, I didn't have 159 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 2: my own car, and I'm like, what is going to 160 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: My phone is over? Like no one is going to 161 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 2: find me if they take me off to the hospital. 162 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: And they ended up driving me back and like deposit 163 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: me on this beach as this individual that I've been 164 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 2: seeing walks out of the water looking very confused. So 165 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: like I am in trauma, and I'm like I cannot 166 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 2: rely on this person to take care of me in 167 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: any way, right, And so again I go into my 168 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 2: zone of like I can tell you that I've had 169 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: a more eventful afternoon than you have. I'd had this 170 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 2: sort of idea that for an Easter I could kind 171 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: of like live in this van, you know, not take 172 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: things too seriously whatever, And then I nearly died. I 173 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 2: felt like I was supposed to have died. So after 174 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 2: the Easter break, I came. I came back in de rehearsals, 175 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: and everybody was sort of relaxed, and it had RESTful Easter. 176 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: The idea was sort of, now we're ready to leap 177 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: in again, and then we're gearing up for opening night. 178 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: For the most part, I was fairly physically unscathed. I 179 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: have a couple of horrible scars I had, like for 180 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: the longest time, I had a really really deep gash 181 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: scar on my left hip. But I went back into 182 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: these rehearsals. Ironically, the play was Dante's Inferno, and so 183 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: then the idea is we're getting kind of in towards 184 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 2: the center of health that is heavy, and I would 185 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: have flashbacks in the middle of rehearsal all of a sudden, 186 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 2: seeing almost like in real time, these waves crashing into 187 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: my face, Oh you know, over my head. That's almost 188 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 2: like a horror movie experience, right, You're like reaching for 189 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 2: security or for something and then feeling this like force 190 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 2: that is that is greater than you, just tearing you 191 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: off and tearing you back. And so I was reliving 192 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: that while in rehearsal. I basically walked out of that 193 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 2: situation after the performances and what I think I'm done 194 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: with acting. I think I quit. For me, what really 195 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: made that experience so significant was that I accepted death 196 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: in that moment, that I had this moment of there 197 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: is no point in me fighting this, I surrender to it. 198 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: I'm done, and then it not happening, and then there 199 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: being this huge, like existentialist breakdown of what does this be? 200 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: So when I looked at my life, like I had 201 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 2: images of twenty two, I like, I just there was 202 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 2: a picture there at twenty three, twenty four, and twenty five. 203 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 2: It was just blackness. It was just a void, and 204 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 2: I was like, I just feel like this story ends 205 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: at twenty five. And so to have this near death 206 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: experience just like a week or two before my birthday, 207 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that was where that ending was 208 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 2: supposed to be. 209 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 4: And now what because the end is easy to me? 210 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: The end is easy, there's no like it's hard for 211 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: maybe other people who are left behind, but for you, 212 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 2: it's like the must story is done and I don't 213 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 2: fear death. However, I mean I did feel in that 214 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: moment there was that initial I'm gonna fight it. I'm 215 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: gonna try, and then to fully just give in, you know, 216 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: I made peace with it and then almost be like 217 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 2: robbed of that. You know, I'm twenty five, I'm maybe 218 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 2: a quarter or a little more than a quarter. I 219 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 2: don't know of my life. I got a little longer 220 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: to go. Maybe I should go see a dentist, you know, 221 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 2: Maybe these teeth have to have to stay in my 222 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: head a little longer. Maybe I should worry about like 223 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: the well being of my body. That's when the work begins, right, 224 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: That's when the looking at yourself and going like what 225 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: is important? And I can choose to continue as I 226 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: have been, or I can change or let it soften me, 227 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: or let it open me up, or give me a 228 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: new direction or a new value system. Because now I 229 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: have the chance to readdress that. I guess that's act too. 230 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: Now what I am not somebody who's going to be 231 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: like I'm so grateful for my trauma. Like I'm like, look, 232 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: I don't think I needed to be like smacked on 233 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: the head to learn things. I'd like to think that 234 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: I can learn in other ways. I do think though that. 235 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: I mean, I had someone show up out of nowhere 236 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 2: and save my life. I can take meaning from that, 237 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: maybe that the universe is like you're not done, or 238 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: like we got you, or even just there's a there 239 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: at least one good person out in the world, right, 240 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: like there is a lot of goodness to draw from 241 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: that right needing help and not being able to refuse 242 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 2: it really showed me, you know what it is to 243 00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: be human. We aren't made to be alone. We are slow, 244 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: we don't have very good clause, terrible teeth. We're not 245 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: here to hunt for ourselves. We have to operate as 246 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 2: families and clans and communities. And I feel like even now, 247 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: more than ever, there's this pressure to have a narrative 248 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: that's like I made it on my own, nobody makes 249 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: it on their own. Stuff with that, like it is 250 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: okay to say someone gave me a financial gift or 251 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: a loan that helped me, or somebody lent me their 252 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: car so I was able to move, or somebody even 253 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: named me in a room that I wasn't in and 254 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: suggested that maybe I would be a great candidate for 255 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: the job. We have to acknowledge that we need each 256 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 2: other and that we're better when we have each other. 257 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: We need to have people stop pretending that they're supposed 258 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: to do it on their own, or spreading a narrative 259 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: that makes other people think I must be broken because 260 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: I'm not able to put the pieces together. If anything is. 261 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 4: Going to save us, that is going to save us. 262 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: Welcome back. This is a live again joining me for 263 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: a conversation about today's story. Are my other Alive against 264 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: story producers Kate Sweeney, Nicholas Takowski, and Brent Day, and 265 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Bush. I love what is revealed 266 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: in the story, and it seems like it's a theme 267 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: that keeps recurring. Often, people having a brush with death 268 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: will not speak up or call out for help because 269 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: they feel like they need to put on this brave face, 270 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: you know. And I feel like the story, it's just 271 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: fascinating to me that somebody who's at the you know, 272 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: at the brink of death, and they have realized that 273 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: there's nobody coming from them. It's only way after they 274 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: probably should have that they're willing to show what they 275 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: maybe later categorize as weakness. It's only way after they're 276 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,239 Speaker 1: already into this desperate situation that they're willing to call 277 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: out for help. 278 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 6: Yeah, And at that point in our conversation when you 279 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 6: hear them talking about like, no, we need other people. 280 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 6: I have seldom seen a person more impassion behind the 281 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 6: mic than they were in that moment talking about that 282 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 6: takeaway like no, we actually need one another to survive. 283 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 6: And it made me think about how, you know, conversations 284 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 6: I've had with I have a friend who's a sociologist 285 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 6: who will you know, She'll die on the hill of 286 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 6: this idea that human beings do not exist in solitude 287 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 6: or in isolation. We don't. We only exist as we 288 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 6: exist to and with other people. And I find that 289 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 6: to be a really beautiful takeaway. You know, we have 290 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 6: young Frankie here literally dying in this ocean, and they 291 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 6: would have died had it not been for this stranger 292 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 6: who comes and saves their life in that moment. And 293 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 6: then their task is to sort of reconstruct themselves and 294 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 6: figure out, okay, what they are because they had given 295 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 6: up at that point they thought, okay, no, life is over. 296 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 6: I'm going to die, and they'd even seen that coming earlier. 297 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 6: There's sort of this idea of like, I'm not going 298 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 6: to live to be twenty five. So there was almost 299 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 6: like a oh okay, I made it now. 300 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: What I gleaned Like, So, I have a part of 301 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: my background where I studied a lot of anthropology cultural anthropology, 302 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: and I gleaned from that as well as and it's 303 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: something I carry into in my film work and the 304 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: other sort of storytelling that I do is I and 305 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: I sort of everything that I do that's fiction, even 306 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: it starts with this idea of all humans have this 307 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: base need to belong. And I put forth the idea 308 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: that the need, the human need to belong far out 309 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: weighs our need to survive or our need to preserve life. 310 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: And this story speaks to that. Incredible. I mean, there's 311 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: a lot of stories where I keep hearing, especially in 312 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: your inner talks with these people, there's this consistent theme 313 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: of people getting into these situations, these high risk situations, 314 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: and ignoring their instincts and getting into them because of 315 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: this base need to belong or this need to present 316 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: themselves so that they can fit in. 317 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 6: Because belonging means you have a self, right, it means 318 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 6: you are a person. 319 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: So and so what we do to compensate for our 320 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: lack of sense of belonging is to identify with one 321 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: thing or another, we become you know, we might joining 322 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: gang or become a deadhead, or become a you know, 323 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: like there's all these things that we do to identify 324 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: to be a part of something. But specifically in Frankie's story, 325 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: I hear them wanting to the need to present this 326 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: strong persona, to not admit to weakness even when they're dying. 327 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 6: Can I tell you something that I'm really that I 328 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 6: love as sort. 329 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: Of a coda absolutely to the story. 330 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 6: I want to tell you what Frankie's up to today, 331 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 6: because they've really brought together their you know, their passion 332 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 6: and talents for theater and movement and trauma recovery and 333 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 6: sports strangely enough, swimming as it were, right, So they 334 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 6: run a really dynamic physical theater company and it's actually 335 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 6: called Burning Bones Physical Theater. So they didn't leave, they 336 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 6: didn't leave theater. They came back to it, and I 337 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 6: just I want to to let listeners know that they 338 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 6: came back to it. So they came back to their passion. 339 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 2: And they do. 340 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: Mental health work. 341 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 6: So having this trauma and thinking about these sort of 342 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 6: separated selves, right, they help their climb their clients overcome trauma. 343 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 6: And on top of that, they're an internationally ranked competitive 344 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 6: endurance athlete. So it's really to me, I think it's 345 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 6: really neat to see how their present day life feels 346 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 6: in some way like the culmination of events that we 347 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 6: see in this one the story from like this one 348 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 6: thing that happened to them. 349 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, although. 350 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 6: Of course there are other stories and their life as 351 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 6: well that has brought them to this place. 352 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: You know, what else is that I find fascinating is 353 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: that before with whatever acting troop they were in where 354 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,479 Speaker 1: they were using trauma and in the wrong way, they 355 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: were using trauma as an access to some sort of 356 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: truth on stage or character. Sounds like that might have 357 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: been what was going on. Now now Frankie is doing 358 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: that the right way in some way, like, you know, 359 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: does that make sense now? 360 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 4: Yeah? 361 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 7: No, And in a sense in the earlier way and 362 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 7: the sort of like Strasburg Methode and I hope you 363 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 7: could hear me rolling my eyes. It's it's exploiting your 364 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 7: own PTSD for the purpose of the play. They're honoring 365 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 7: what happened to them and creating work that that elevates 366 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 7: and that explores what happened to them, and and their trauma. 367 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 6: What was the premonition that they were having it was 368 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 6: It wasn't a premonition like a vision. It was just 369 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 6: the sense of they sort of had a sense of 370 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 6: where their life was going to go, and when they 371 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 6: saw age twenty five, there was nothing. 372 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: It was just like darkness. 373 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: So it really is a literal like I'm trying my 374 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: hardest to survive and just the moment of giving up 375 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: in the hand. That's symbolic, Yeah, a kind of metaphorical. 376 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, because that is what happened their life. 377 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, the old me is going to die. 378 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 379 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: Next time on Alive Again, we meet Aileen Murray, a 380 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: cancer survivor who later narrowly escaped a gunman's bullet. Her 381 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: story reflects on the power of community and compassion. 382 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 7: The bullet if it was just a millisecond earlier, like 383 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 7: it would have gone in my temple. 384 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent die 385 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: Nicholas Duakoski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, Additional 386 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick 387 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional 388 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima L. K Ali 389 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: and Noames Griffin. Our editors are Gerhartslovichca, Brent Die and 390 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben love It and Alexander Rodriguez. 391 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Bush. Thank you to Frankie Molinex 392 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: for sharing their story. For more about Frankie, visit their 393 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: website Frankiemolinex dot com. Alive Again is a production of 394 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: I Art Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a 395 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: transformative near death experience to share, we'd love to hear 396 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: your story. Please email us at Alive Again Project at 397 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's a l I v e A 398 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: g A I N p R O j E c 399 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: T at gmail dot com.