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Speaker 1: All the media. Woo all right, guys, I did my job.

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Speaker 1: That could happen here a podcast that I just opened

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Speaker 1: by saying, woo ha.

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Speaker 2: Me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna throw to you. Now what are we

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Speaker 1: talking about today?

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Speaker 3: Boy? So, yesterday we did I guess, the sort of

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Speaker 3: intro legwork to the kind of stuff that you need

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Speaker 3: to know to understand the sort of new crop of

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Speaker 3: right wing Palestine grifters. And today we're actually gonna get

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Speaker 3: into who these people are and how their politics developed,

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Speaker 3: and how the sort of trajectory of this has shaped

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Speaker 3: a lot of the left. And to do this, unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: we need to introduce one of the main characters of this,

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Speaker 3: for better or for worse, probably for worse, Max Blumenthal.

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Speaker 4: I just woke up.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Max Blumenthal and I'm just barely starting

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Speaker 1: my coffee for the morning.

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Speaker 4: Son of a bitch.

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Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. I apologize to everyone, But unfortunately, unfortunately

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Speaker 3: this needs to be done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the human equivalent of soap scum.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, okay, I think the place to start with Max.

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Speaker 3: Bluementhal is a thing that's pretty common among most of

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Speaker 3: the kind of new crop of these Palestine grifters is

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Speaker 3: that he used to be a pretty normal progressive. Now

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Speaker 3: for some of the people we're going to be talking about,

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Speaker 3: pretty normal progressive was the thing they were in like

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Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. For Max Blumenthal, like he was a pretty

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Speaker 3: normal progressive in like the two thousands and in nine was.

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Speaker 5: A real journalist at some point, right yeah, yeah, Like

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Speaker 5: like he wrote this book called republic Gomorrah, Inside the

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Speaker 5: Movement that Shattered the Party, which is a pretty good

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Speaker 5: book about the rise of the Christian right and how

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Speaker 5: they seize the Republican Party.

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Speaker 3: And this is very funny because the place he is

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Speaker 3: going to end up at the end of this story

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Speaker 3: is going on Tucker Carlson and being aligned with like

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Speaker 3: the exact forces he was talking about like a decade

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Speaker 3: and a half ago. So before we really started get

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Speaker 3: into him, we need to talk about his family. Garrett,

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Speaker 3: Do you know who Sid Blumenthal is?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the name sounds familiar, but it's not ringing

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Speaker 2: any specific.

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Speaker 4: Bells for me.

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Speaker 1: Yea Clinton staffer, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. He was like Clinton's hatchet man basically, Like

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Speaker 3: this is mostly originally with Bill Clinton, but like later

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Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton too. He's like the guy who does the

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Speaker 3: Clinton's like political dirty work, and he was like, here's

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Speaker 3: a big guy in the nineties. The most impactful thing

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Speaker 3: that he did for modern politics is that he is

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Speaker 3: the guy who invented birth rhythm is slightly too strong

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Speaker 3: of a word, but he's the guy who pushes like

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Speaker 3: Obama birth rihsm like into the mainstream because like as

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Speaker 3: an attempt basically to kill Obama's campaign so that Hillary

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Speaker 3: could win the nomination.

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Speaker 2: How well did how old did that turn out?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 3: Gave us Donald Trump, So you know, things going great,

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Speaker 3: and you know, so so this is Max Bluementhal's dad, right,

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Speaker 3: like Max, And this is I think I think that's

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Speaker 3: kind of important about him is that he grows up

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Speaker 3: very sort of proximal to power. Like he goes to

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Speaker 3: Georgetown Day School, which is a forty thousand dollars a

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Speaker 3: year prep school that has like multiple Supreme Court justices,

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Speaker 3: Like I've sent their kids there now. But he's so

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Speaker 3: he's like kind of a normal progressive journalist for a

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Speaker 3: long time. But in the early twenty tens, he takes

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Speaker 3: a genuine, a very principled stand on Palestine that gets

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Speaker 3: him kind of kicked out of a lot of progressive

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Speaker 3: circles because in twenty Twelvey thirteen it was and still

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Speaker 3: is to this day, it was very hard to take

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Speaker 3: pro palesigme positions. And he like he just ends up

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Speaker 3: in this sort of spiral where like he loses most

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Speaker 3: of his friends, his girlfriend breaks up with him, like

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Speaker 3: he's not getting work from the usual places he's been

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Speaker 3: getting work from because he's been sort of like kicked

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Speaker 3: out and isolated for taking this stance. And the product

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Speaker 3: of this is that he goes he takes this meeting

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Speaker 3: that is very very weird. So in twenty fifteen, Russia

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Speaker 3: today has this like week long gala thing that's for

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Speaker 3: its tenth anniversary. If you're like a Mueller investigation fan,

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Speaker 3: this is very famous. If you're a Nova person, almost

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Speaker 3: no one has ever heard of this thing. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: this this gala thing is this in twenty fifteen. It

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Speaker 3: has a bunch of very very important like Russian officials.

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Speaker 3: Gorbachev is there, Like, there's a bunch of like senior

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Speaker 3: like like senior officials. Very famously, Mike Flynn gets paid

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Speaker 3: forty five thousand dollars to speak there. Jill Stein, who's

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Speaker 3: the Green Party can in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: This is where running again for the Green Party this year?

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Speaker 3: Technics. Yeah, I don't know if they're gonna be this year.

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Speaker 4: I think they got it. I think they got it on.

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Speaker 3: Lock Now, Jill jill Stein twenty four? Would she beat

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Speaker 3: Howie Hawkins? Is he not running again?

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Speaker 2: I believe, I believe it's her. That's last last night

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Speaker 2: I heard Jill Stein is banking is making another run

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Speaker 2: for it? Goddamn all right, yeah, yeah, she has one

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Speaker 2: month ago she launched her twenty twenty four presidential bid.

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Speaker 3: Oh boy, So yeah, okay, so so Jill Stein. This

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Speaker 3: is where if you ever heard the conspiracy stuff that's

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Speaker 3: like Jill Stein is like a Russian agent. It comes

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Speaker 3: from the fact that she was at this meeting and

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Speaker 3: then started running for president. Now, what's interesting about Max

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Speaker 3: Bluman thought going here is at this point he's a

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Speaker 3: pro Syrian revolution guy. He writes, he writes a bunch

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Speaker 3: of articles like criticizing Western leftists for supporting Assaud, and

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Speaker 3: I want to read from a little bit of them

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Speaker 3: because it's a really interesting look into who he was

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Speaker 3: before and the fact that he knows exactly what the

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Speaker 3: playbook that he's going to be using is. Besides exploiting

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Speaker 3: the Palestinian cause, the Assaud apologists have eagerly played the

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Speaker 3: al Qaeda card to stoke fears of his Islamic takeover Assyria.

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Speaker 3: Back in two thousand and three, a Saud accused the

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Speaker 3: US of deliberately overstating the strength of Alkaida in order

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Speaker 3: to justify it so called war on terror. But now,

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Speaker 3: in a transparent bid for sympathy from the outside world,

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Speaker 3: Assad insists that the Syrian armed opposition is controlled almost

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Speaker 3: entirely by al Qaeda like jahattists who have come from

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Speaker 3: abroad to place the country under Islamic control, and is

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Speaker 3: addressed to the Syrian People's Assembly on June third, the

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Speaker 3: dictator tried to hammer the theme home by using the

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Speaker 3: terms terrorists or terrorism, a whopping forty three times. That

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Speaker 3: is a full ten times more than George bush Digit

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Speaker 3: speech to Congress in the aftermath of nine to eleven,

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Speaker 3: enjoying the Asade regimes campaign that you legitimize the Syrian

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Speaker 3: opposition by casting it as a bunch of irrational Jahatis. Ironically,

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Speaker 3: they seem to have little problem with Hesbelah's core Islamist values.

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Speaker 3: Assad's apologists have unwinningly underwritten the War on Terror lexicon

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Speaker 3: introduced by George Bush, Ariel Sharon and the Neo Khon

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Speaker 3: Cabal after nine to eleven. So this is pre twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 3: like twenty fifteen, like pre this meeting Max Blumenthal. So

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Speaker 3: he goes to this meeting and then after that founds

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Speaker 3: grey Zone and all of his positions suddenly flip. And

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Speaker 3: this is the thing you can actually if you want to,

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Speaker 3: if you go back and trace. So graizone is this

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Speaker 3: sort of media outlet thing that Max Blumenthal found it.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting because there's a lot of like Aaron

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Speaker 3: Batte too, Like if if you go through the journalist

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Speaker 3: in this outlet, the moment they start working for Grezone,

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Speaker 3: all of their positions on stuff like Syria just immediately flip.

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Speaker 3: There's okay. So there's a conspiracy version of this, where

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Speaker 3: like if you read Liberal Accouncil with gray Zone, they

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Speaker 3: will argue that maxlely Wental went to this meeting, got

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Speaker 3: paid off by the Russian government and that gray Zone

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Speaker 3: is like a Russian asset. I I don't know, I

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Speaker 3: don't think that's true. Well, the thing I can say

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Speaker 3: was nobody knows where Grayzone gets his money from right,

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Speaker 3: they're very they're very sort of like like there's Patreon stuff,

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Speaker 3: but other than that, they're very sort of sketchy about it.

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Speaker 3: There's no evidence, like directly that he's been paid by

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Speaker 3: the Russian government to do Grayzone. The thing that I

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Speaker 3: can say is that he has taken a bunch of

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Speaker 3: money from the Russian government to go on RT like

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Speaker 3: all the fucking time. That's the part of it that

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Speaker 3: I can say.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: This is one of these things that's it's such a

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Speaker 3: sort of like confluence of like all of these people

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Speaker 3: were in the same place at the same time. It's

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Speaker 3: one of these things that generates trilling conspiracy theories. I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna say that I don't think that this is like

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Speaker 3: a giant Russian conspiracy. But he does flip all of

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Speaker 3: his positions almost immediately after going to this meeting. And

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Speaker 3: the thing that the position that he starts taking is

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Speaker 3: is the exact same position that he was he was

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Speaker 3: writing about like before this in twenty fifteen. He starts

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Speaker 3: talking about how like anyone who opposes a sad is

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Speaker 3: a quote head chopper, and he starts he starts selling

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Speaker 3: like one of these big things is selling this line

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Speaker 3: that like ASAWD is the defender of serious ethnic minorities,

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Speaker 3: which is like a thing that I think would be

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Speaker 3: used to them. And you know, and he's he starts

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Speaker 3: a podcast on moderate rebels, which is a joke about like, ah,

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Speaker 3: like the US is funding moderate rebels, but all those

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Speaker 3: people are actually like Al Kaita supporters, And I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like I think. I think it's interesting comparing his pre

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Speaker 3: twenty fifteen writing to his post twenty fifteen writing, because

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Speaker 3: he very clearly understands what he is doing, Like he

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Speaker 3: wrote an analysis of the thing that he's going to

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Speaker 3: be dealing.

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Speaker 4: There's no plausible deniability with him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and a big part of this whole deal is

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Speaker 3: like and this is one of the things that Max

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Speaker 3: Blinthalf figures out out is that there are there is

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Speaker 3: a very large market in selling a palatable form of

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Speaker 3: Islamophobia to the left. You're gonna see this in This

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Speaker 3: is one of the things that he doesn't shing John,

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Speaker 3: where there's he's he's part of this whole sort of

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Speaker 3: sphere of people who are like, there's nothing happening in

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Speaker 3: Chan John, Everything's actually great. And with both that and Syria,

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Speaker 3: there's exactly the same playbook, which is to go all like,

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Speaker 3: you know, all of the resistance to this government is

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Speaker 3: CIA back Wahabi terrorists. You can find like some people

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Speaker 3: who suck and go oh hey, like these guys are

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Speaker 3: all jahadists, and you know, in Syria this is sort

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Speaker 3: of bleakly funny because if you know your war on

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Speaker 3: terror history, like Bashar al Assad like tortured people with

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Speaker 3: the CIA and the US like held some Weiger guys

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Speaker 3: for the CCP in Gitmo for allegedly being part of

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Speaker 3: a separatist group. But this is an important part of

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Speaker 3: how people sort of launder these right wing dictators. And

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Speaker 3: this is something that there's a very old sort of

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Speaker 3: tradition of this on the left that these these a

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Speaker 3: lot of people are able to sort of raft onto.

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Speaker 3: And I'm going to take an example of this because

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Speaker 3: I think it's important because one of the the er

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Speaker 3: sort of moments of all of this politics is the

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Speaker 3: collapse of Yugoslavia and the sort of left wing defense

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Speaker 3: of Melosovic. So I'm going to read from to take

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Speaker 3: an examples like what this shit looks like. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to read from an article that Jeremy Skahill wrote, which

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Speaker 3: is I think the worst article about Melosovik I've ever seen?

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Speaker 3: This is this is a Huffington Post piece. This is

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Speaker 3: I think the worst thing I've ever seen written about

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Speaker 3: Molosovic in a mainstream outlet. Here is Here is Jeremy's

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Speaker 3: Gayhill quote. Little attention therefore, has been paid to Melosovic's

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Speaker 3: long term efforts, which pre date nine to eleven, the

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine NATO bombing and his own trial to

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Speaker 3: expose the presence of al Qaeda and the Balkans from

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Speaker 3: Bosnia to Kosovo. With nine to eleven, Melosovics talk of

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Speaker 3: Al Kaida was easily dismissed as laughable pathetic opportunism. But

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Speaker 3: those who followed Melosovic's career and importantly the events of

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Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties at Yugoslavia, no, it was none of these.

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Speaker 3: The those allegations were based on true events the US

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Speaker 3: does not want discussed in an international court. Following the

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Speaker 3: defeat of the Soviets in Afghanistan in the eighties, many

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Speaker 3: Musha Hadeen eventually turned their sits at Yugoslavia, where they

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Speaker 3: went to fight alongside Bosnian Muslims against the Orthodox Serbs

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Speaker 3: and Catholic Croats. Once again, the US and bin Laden

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Speaker 3: were on the same team. To this day, there are

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Speaker 3: reports of trading camps in Bosnia, which remains under occupation.

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Speaker 3: It is also likely a training ground for future blowback.

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Speaker 3: So that's like nonsense, Like there are not there are

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Speaker 3: not al Qaeda training camps in Bosnia, Like what the fuck?

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Speaker 3: Like it's just it's complete nonsense. And you know, it

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Speaker 3: relies on a lot of the other sort of like

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Speaker 3: weird things that leftists like believe and don't believe about this.

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Speaker 3: There's there's a very if you want to actually read

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Speaker 3: about these sort of like transnational Islamist networks, there's there's

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Speaker 3: a very good book by the anthropologist Darryl Lee called

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Speaker 3: The Universal Enemy, Jihad and Jihada Empire and the Challenge

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Speaker 3: of Solidarity. But like, okay, I want I want to

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Speaker 3: ask the audience a question, right, why would members of

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Speaker 3: the Musja Hadeen be in Bosnia in the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 3: And I want to suggest that it might have something

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Speaker 3: to do with the fact that Melosivic was trying to

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Speaker 3: kill every Muslim in the fucking country. He almost did it.

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Speaker 3: He was pretty close to actually doing it, you know,

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Speaker 3: but the sort of the sort of like left conspiracy

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Speaker 3: solutions like no, no, it must have been the CIA.

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Speaker 3: There's no plausible reason why ex Musja Hadeen guys would

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Speaker 3: have gone to a country where someone was trying to

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Speaker 3: kill the entire Muslim population, Like what the fuck do

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Speaker 3: you like? It's it's it's all stuff us like this.

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Speaker 3: Then you know, he also talks about how like Belosovic

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Speaker 3: would have like testified about the CIA institution of a

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Speaker 3: neoliberal government in Kosovo, and like what like Belosovic is

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Speaker 3: the guy who presided like he was one of the

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Speaker 3: architects of of decollectivisation in Yugoslavia, like he is like

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Speaker 3: before before he was this, before he was the butcher

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Speaker 3: of Belgrade. He was the butcher of the Yugoslavian social estate.

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Speaker 3: But you can you know, and so and he was.

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Speaker 3: He was just a hardline right wing Serbian nationalist. But

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Speaker 3: you can sell him to a Western audience by using Islamophobia,

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Speaker 3: by exploiting, you know, by by by doing this thing

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Speaker 3: where you're like, oh, well, actually like all of these

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Speaker 3: people were uh, they were all al kaeda. You can

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Speaker 3: use this to sell the guy who destroyed Yugoslavia as

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Speaker 3: like the left to savor of Yugoslavia. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I think that the part about this that really sad

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Speaker 3: is like, you know, there was you know, the sort

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Speaker 3: of last true believers of the old Ego Slavin working class,

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Speaker 3: right were these the Yugoslavian anti war protesters. And these guys,

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Speaker 3: you know, they they're they're they're protesting to stop the war.

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Speaker 3: They see coming that the Serbians are about to win,

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Speaker 3: leash and they just get murdered in the streets by Melosovic.

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Speaker 3: You know, well because seven years later, the US society

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Speaker 3: that they didn't like him, like he's become this like

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Speaker 3: hero of a bunch of these like a bunch of

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Speaker 3: Arxis Leninists like see this guy as a hero, and

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Speaker 3: this is you know, this is this is just this

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Speaker 3: is their big sort of like political trick is using

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Speaker 3: the threat of like terrifying Muslim like terrorists to just

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Speaker 3: legitimize right wing dictators.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, speaking of right wing dictators. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's this non zero chance there's an ad for someone

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Speaker 1: who will be one in the future.

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Speaker 4: Uh right now, and we're.

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Speaker 3: Back, so we're back to this stuff and Syria and

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Speaker 3: specifically the way people think about Syria plays a huge

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Speaker 3: role in the sort of development of the left. And

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons that the sort of new gray

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Speaker 3: zone line, which is that the entire opposition is composed

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Speaker 3: of Islamists and that a SOD is the only person

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Speaker 3: who can stop them, is that, like, you know, part

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Speaker 3: of the reason this works is that like, yeah, like

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Speaker 3: they're and this this is the gap that these people

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Speaker 3: always sort of come in through, is that like a

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Speaker 3: lot of the Western media was not covering Syria very well.

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Speaker 3: They weren't covering the rise of like job out on

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Speaker 3: news Row very well. And you know, they use this

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Speaker 3: gap to sort of like come through and rehabilitate a

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Speaker 3: SOD by going like the media is lying to you

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Speaker 3: a sad who again, I need to mention like ten

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Speaker 3: years earlier, this guy was torturing people for the CIA,

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Speaker 3: But you know, now like a saw it as actually

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Speaker 3: Nancy imperialist. And this works. This works enormously well. This

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Speaker 3: is the sort of breach through which Blueminthal enters the mainstream,

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Speaker 3: and this this discourse about Syria like reshapes everything about

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Speaker 3: the left. This is where this is where American Marxist

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Speaker 3: Leninism like comes from right, like a huge portion of

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Speaker 3: ideas from the people who back and saw it all.

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Speaker 3: And this is it's actually really weird. Like almost every

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Speaker 3: big sort of like leftist like podcast or media thing

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Speaker 3: like came out of the Syrian Civil War in some

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Speaker 3: way or another. Like the whole Grazo Versus Belling Cat

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Speaker 3: thing is a like is a thing that was originally

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Speaker 3: about the Syrian Civil War Tropo trap House, which is

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Speaker 3: like I guess if people who don't know it's this

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Speaker 3: massive like social democratic podcast also like sort of came

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Speaker 3: out of there, like it was partially about like came

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Speaker 3: out of like Turkish politics. But those were very very

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Speaker 3: similar circles like on Twitter at the time, and you know,

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Speaker 3: and one of their big things is like Felix Peterman's

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Speaker 3: like The Truth about Syria, which is a sort of

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Speaker 3: slightly softer like version of supporting ASAD that also supports

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Speaker 3: like the revolution in Rojeva. Like I came out of

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Speaker 3: this because I was on the pro ro Java side

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Speaker 3: because like I'm an anarchist and I have a bunch

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Speaker 3: of Kurdish friends. So there's this giant fight about what

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Speaker 3: the Syrian Civil War is and what the sides are

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Speaker 3: and what it means, and this is one of the

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Speaker 3: things that comes to define what the left is and

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Speaker 3: the grey zone people sort of win. And the result

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Speaker 3: of this is that this pro asod like nominally anti

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Speaker 3: imperialist position becomes the default position of a bunch of

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Speaker 3: sort of like people who aren't like hardline Marxislenis who

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Speaker 3: are just sort of like like kind of edgy Bernie

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Speaker 3: like Birdie supporters. And this is something that like you

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Speaker 3: can see the effect of this, like to this day

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Speaker 3: if you look at Left, if you look at like

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Speaker 3: leftis meme culture, like you can see people who are

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Speaker 3: otherwise mostly normal making line of Damascus jokes about how

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Speaker 3: like Asad is like the line of Damascus, people still

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Speaker 3: make jokes about barrel bombs, which is you know this

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Speaker 3: thing that Asad would do.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: There's the whole like the one that I see the most,

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Speaker 3: it's like still very very common, is there is this

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Speaker 3: whole meme of like Hillary Clinton says asd must go,

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Speaker 3: and then there's like the second panels like who must

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Speaker 3: go and Hillary Clinton's gone, and people still do this

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Speaker 3: like to this day.

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Speaker 1: The other really common one, there's this little girl named

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Speaker 1: Bana a Labet who was a Syrian girl who got bombed,

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Speaker 1: and there's like a video of her, you know, reacting

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Speaker 1: in the way a small child would to being bombed,

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Speaker 1: and like there's a meme that's basically taking her words

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Speaker 1: and twisting it into like please America, you know, come

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Speaker 1: and intervene in Syria, like turn it basically like this

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Speaker 1: this girl is CIA propaganda trying to like justify US

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Speaker 1: intervention in the war. Like that's the that's the bit

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Speaker 1: you see it posted. A lot people repurposed it after

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Speaker 1: the Russian invasion of Ukraine to make fun of Ukrainians.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like pretty fundamentally cruel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's that's how a lot of this stuff

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Speaker 3: worked because it was it's stuff that fits into the

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Speaker 3: social values of that part of the left at that time,

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Speaker 3: which is that both the Marxist Leninists and what was

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Speaker 3: called the dirtbag left around Trapo was completely irony poisoned,

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Speaker 3: and like, I get it. I was around then, like

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Speaker 3: I did my time in the army trenches. Like it's

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Speaker 3: really hard not to react to the world's with ironic

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Speaker 3: detachment when it's so fucking terrible. But you know the

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Speaker 3: other side of that was like these people started like

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Speaker 3: we're doing these Assagnians because they were like because they

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Speaker 3: were edgery and contrarian, and because you know, like the

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Speaker 3: like this is like the stuff with the bond. This

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Speaker 3: is one of the things with the Bonum stuff is

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Speaker 3: like deliberately demonstrating that you don't have any empathy is

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Speaker 3: something that's edgy and contrarian, and like like the performance

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Speaker 3: of that was this very sort of like powerful emotional

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Speaker 3: pull that that serves to legitimize a bunch of this stuff.

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Speaker 3: And you know, originally, and part of the everything here

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Speaker 3: too is like everyone everyone in all of these circles,

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Speaker 3: They're big thing is trying to own the Libs. And

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Speaker 3: this is something that like the Libs cared about and

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Speaker 3: doing this thing of like how much you don't care

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Speaker 3: about it and how much you think it's like them

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Speaker 3: falling for propaganda. That was you know, that was something

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Speaker 3: that was heavily incentivized by the structure of housings like

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Speaker 3: Twitter work and how like retweets work, and you know

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Speaker 3: this is I mean, it's bleak in and of itself,

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Speaker 3: but it leads to stuff that's worse because the only

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Speaker 3: other people who support Asad are like white supremacists, and

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Speaker 3: this leads to a bunch of very very weird cross

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Speaker 3: pollution that normally you wouldn't expect to be happening between

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Speaker 3: these circles and people who are just Nazis. One of

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Speaker 3: the most common sources about Syria for both sort of

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Speaker 3: Marxist Leninists and like social democrats Twitter uses is this

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Speaker 3: person named Partisan Girl who's, like I still to this day,

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Speaker 3: like a very big media figure. So she is a

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Speaker 3: Syrian Australian quote unquote Syria expert. We don't really have

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Speaker 3: time to get into all of her.

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Speaker 1: Stuff on munch, I think, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's been on David Duke's podcast Davids.

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Speaker 4: A former podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, the former Grand Wizard of the KKK. She

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Speaker 3: was on Richard Spencer's podcast like she is just a Nazi.

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Speaker 3: The last post that I saw from her was her

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Speaker 3: responding to another guy who's just a straight up hardline

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Speaker 3: anti semi who posted this beam that was like maybe

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Speaker 3: this is why all conservatives support Israel and has a

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Speaker 3: bunch of faces of conservatives with like us stars of

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Speaker 3: David on them, like including Max Blumenthal and partisan girls

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Speaker 3: response to this is not to object to the fact

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Speaker 3: that it's unbelievably anti Semitic, but to be like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: Max Blumenthal is actually an anti Zionist, so you shouldn't

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Speaker 3: include him with all of the rest of the people

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Speaker 3: who you've included on here because they're Jewish, even though

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Speaker 3: some of them aren't. He's just accusing random people of

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Speaker 3: being Jewish who aren't. But that's the thing, Like, she's

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Speaker 3: straight up an anti semi just actually a fascist. I like,

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Speaker 3: I literally, like we could sit here for ten minutes

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Speaker 3: listing the names of all of the fascist podcasts she's

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Speaker 3: been on. And this is one of these things that

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Speaker 3: people knew, Like, people knew that she was a fascist,

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Speaker 3: and I had arguments with people where I would be like, hey,

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Speaker 3: this person is a Nazi, Like she's been on David

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00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: Duke's podcast, and people would be like, well, yeah, she's

433
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 3: a fascist, but I like her Syria analysis, and this is,

434
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 3: you know, one of the things that happens, and this

435
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 3: is this is I'm gonna kind of defer to you

436
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: on this, Robert, because this is something I know a

437
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 3: lot less about. But one of the things that the Grayson.

438
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 3: People become really heavily involved about is the doing a

439
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 3: bunch of weird denialism stuff around chemical weapons attacks and duma.

440
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 4: Yeah?

441
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's it. That's a lot of

442
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: the nexus of the kind of asshole Left takes on

443
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: Syria revolve around is because if bushahah Asad was dumping

444
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: chemical weapons on civilian populations and mass which we know

445
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: he was, then there's absolutely no way you can justify

446
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: or defend him. It doesn't matter how many of his

447
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: enemies were quote unquote Islamists. He was pumping chemical weapons

448
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: into civilian neighborhoods. So the answer has to be that

449
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: that never happened, right, that that was the CIA faking

450
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: it or the CIA deploying chemical weapons and it got

451
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: blamed on a sad. A lot of it comes down

452
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: to there's this group. These guys are civil defense people.

453
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: This is there are civil defense units in any city

454
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: being bombed, made up of civilians in the area. When

455
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: I was in Mosul, i was embedded with a lot

456
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: of the Iraqi version of these guys. They go in

457
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: and they pull people out and bodies out of wreckage

458
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: after bombings. Right, they're usually locals they provide some emergency

459
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: medical care to the extent that that's possible. There's people

460
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: doing this right now in Gaza and in Syria. It

461
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: was the White Helmets, and you know, the White Helmets

462
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: were in large part formed by a dude named James

463
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: Messia I believe it's the way his name is pronounced.

464
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: He died under mysterious circumstances in Turkey not all that

465
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: long ago. But a big part of this chunk of

466
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: the left's line on Syria is that because these guys

467
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: are the first responders and they're getting in after these

468
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: chemical attacks and providing a lot of the initial evidence

469
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: in the wake of them, it's that these guys, the

470
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: White Helmets, are a CIA front and they're the ones

471
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: who are kind of planting all of the evidence of

472
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: these attacks.

473
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this stuff gets really really out of control

474
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: very quickly. I mean, this is one of the you

475
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 3: suddenly see all of these people doing the stuff that

476
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 3: the Alex Jones supporters are doing about Sandy Hook. Were

477
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: like they're like taking pictures of like dead bodies and going, oh,

478
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 3: this is like a man can or like these are

479
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 3: crisis actors, and it's it's it's it's insane because it's

480
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 3: like this is all the stuff that like the Israelis

481
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 3: are doing now, where like they're taking pictures of a

482
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 3: dead baby and going like this is a doll. But

483
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 3: so many people were doing this with like with the

484
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: shit in Syria, and it really struck me as like

485
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: I was kind of observing it from the outside because

486
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 3: like I don't know, like I the period this was

487
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: happening as the period where occupied Ice was starting, so

488
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: I was not super involved in this stuff, but you

489
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 3: could just sort of see like the kind of the

490
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: level of conspiratism just like skyrocketing to the point where

491
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: like all of the stuff that's like the modern like

492
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 3: conspiracy canon is just getting embedded in there.

493
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's where you see a lot of the stuff

494
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: that has been the norm on the right for twenty

495
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: years start to take hold in the left default reality

496
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: kind of fragmenting conspiratorial angles on verifiable things that are

497
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: happening right where you have what's obviously occurring based on

498
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: the evidence, and the completely errant reality fragment that that

499
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: is how you have to perceive events in order to

500
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: stay ideologically consistent. That's when a lot of that st

501
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: starts to infect the left in a way that is

502
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: now you know, pretty widely prevalent.

503
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 3: Yeah. And one of the things that, you know, one

504
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: of the things that he's able to do with this

505
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 3: that becomes one of the staples of a lot of

506
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 3: the left is this this line about color revolutions, where

507
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: every single time a protest starts in a country that

508
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 3: he doesn't like, or like the US doesn't like, like

509
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 3: everyone on Twitter would suddenly be like, Oh, it's a

510
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: color revolution. It's a CIA op. All the protesters are

511
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 3: being paid by the CIA. And I could pick like

512
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 3: a thousand examples of this from everywhere from like Lebanon

513
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 3: to Hong Kong. Like every time mass protests would start,

514
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 3: these people would be like, it's a it's a color revolution.

515
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna pick one that I think, I

516
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 3: genuinely think is the most egregious piece of slander they've

517
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 3: ever fucking printed, or at least like like slander of

518
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: a leftist group, which is so Ben Norton wrote a

519
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 3: piece that was about Ecuador because there been there have

520
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 3: been a bunch of like Ecuador has periodic mass protests,

521
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 3: they also had elections, and Ben Norton, who's another Gray

522
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 3: Zone guy who eventually, like we wouldn't even have time

523
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 3: to cover this, but he's gonna break with the Gray

524
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 3: Zone people when they take their hard right pivot because

525
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 3: they start doing like anti vax shit that's too much

526
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 3: even fain.

527
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: Which has been at least a little bit of fun

528
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: to watch.

529
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, watching watching them all fighting each other has

530
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: been all gone some one of the few pieces of

531
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: satisfaction we've gotten out of this. But Norton, so he

532
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: one of the one of the people he's targeting is

533
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 3: the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador and so we've

534
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 3: talked about them on this show before. They are one

535
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 3: of the most radical indigenous organizations on the planet. Like

536
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: they you know, they they they have been literally in

537
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: the case of Ben Norton, they have been overthrowing near

538
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: liberal government since before Ben Norton was born. Like their

539
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: big thing is doing is is they do these days

540
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: where like they call an uprising and it uprising happens,

541
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of people go into the streets and

542
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 3: try to bring down the government and sometimes it works

543
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: and sometimes it doesn't. But you know, this is this

544
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 3: is one of their big things and gray zone, like

545
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: like Norton calls these people uh anarchists inspired ultra leftists

546
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: back by the US, which is just you.

547
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: Know, you're in for a good political analysis when someone

548
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: uses the term ultra leftists.

549
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it as an insults like what, oh, no,

550
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: I've been ultra leftists and my politics are too good

551
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 3: you my takes are too based, like this is supposed

552
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: to be an insult like baffling stuff. Yeah, but like

553
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: and like, in the span of two years, they went

554
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: from like praising the from praising the Confederation if it

555
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,479
Speaker 3: they just now noll Is of Ecuador to calling them

556
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: a cia op like again within two years. And and

557
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of this stuff is based

558
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: on the work of this guy named William Engdaw. I

559
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: don't know how aproounce this lastson. I think I think

560
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: it's William Engdahl, So he's he's a Laruchite. We've talked

561
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: about the Laruchites on this podcast before. They're famous for

562
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: like beating up leftists on college campuses in the seventies.

563
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 3: They're also like the most fetted up motherfuckers in the

564
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 3: entire world. Like they are they are snitching on leftist

565
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: groups to like federal agencies you've never heard of before,

566
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: Like they claim to have worked with the CIA, the FBI,

567
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: the Devents Intelligence Agency directly cooperated with Reagan's National Security Council,

568
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 3: like they have. They are like the biggest sniches in

569
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 3: the entire world. And you know, Bluementhal's like copying their stuff, right,

570
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: Like he's this, this is where a lot of his

571
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 3: stuff about what color revolutions are comes from. And eng

572
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 3: daw is I'm gonna I'm gonna turn to some research

573
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: by Emmy Bevincy is anti fascist researcher. So eng Da

574
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 3: thinks that BLM was a color revolution because he is

575
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 3: just a a really really hard line like right worker.

576
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: This is actually like a pretty common thing in these

577
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 3: circles of people who think that b M was color revolution.

578
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: People who think that like occupies a color revolution. And

579
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: that's sort of like the far right of these of

580
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 3: these sort of circles. And uh, I guess speaking of

581
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 3: the far right of these circles, uh, do you know

582
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 3: what is the by far the right choice for you to.

583
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: Use to use your consuming power of the of the

584
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: purchasing dollar. That's right, These these ads great job. Yeah

585
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: that was That was wonderful, and we are unfortunately back

586
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 2: well high wallet is later and I've never felt happier.

587
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, So okay, so we The reason we're covering this

588
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 3: in the first place is the sort of right wing

589
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: pivot that this circle does. But before we talk about that,

590
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: we need to talk about one more thing that is

591
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 3: incredibly bleak, which is the time he accused a sexual

592
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 3: assault victim of being a co intel pro op. So

593
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 3: this is a story I don't think most people know.

594
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 3: I only know about it because I was there in

595
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 3: the DSA at the time this is happening. In twenty seventeen,

596
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: the DSA has its first as its first elections after

597
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 3: the giant surgeon membership from both like Trump winning and

598
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: also Bernie and they have his first elections to its

599
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 3: governing body. And one of the people who's elected is

600
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: this guy named Arl Stevens. Arl stephens Is. He's a

601
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: very popular left leftist at the time he does this

602
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 3: whole podcast circuit. He's very charismatic. He gets the third

603
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: most votes of anyone elected to the National Political Committee.

604
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: But it turns out he is also an abuser. A

605
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: woman publishes an anonymous letter about Steven's sexually assaulting her.

606
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: It is fucking brutal. Ben Norton, who's one of his

607
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 3: coworkers that we've talked about before, makes a giant thread

608
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: accusing the victim of being cointelpro Max Blumenthal quote tweets

609
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: it and says quote can't help but be reminded of

610
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: co intel probe while reading this thread, and even people

611
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: who are normally Max Plumenthal supporters were like, what the

612
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 3: fuck are you doing, and like the full story of

613
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: Norton and Max Blumenthal's involvement, and this is actually worse

614
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: than I can talk about on air. So after the

615
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: first thread where he where Ben Norton calls it a

616
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: coen Tel for up, he deletes that one because it's

617
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: just not obviously not sure if people are yelling at him,

618
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: So he makes a second thread that that threat is

619
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 3: still up to this fucking day. You can find the

620
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 3: thread of Ben Norton talking about how a DSA faction

621
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: called Momentum had like manufactured the sexual assault thing to

622
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 3: like destroy its opposition. And I want to make something

623
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 3: very clear because I was there when but when like

624
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 3: during the in this fight inside the DSA whitween Momentum

625
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: and everyone else in the fucking org. And I was

626
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 3: on the anti Momentum side. Right. Momentum was basically the

627
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: right wing of the DSA, not exactly the right wing,

628
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: like there's there were some other people who were further

629
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: right than them, but they were they were like the

630
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 3: center right of the DSA. They were electoralists. The only

631
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 3: thing they ever wanted to do was canvassing, like I

632
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 3: was on and Arl Stevens was on the other side,

633
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 3: like opposing them, and I was on Like politically, I

634
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: was in the in like on the same side as

635
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: Arl Stevens here right, Like I fucking hate the Momentum people.

636
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 3: I think they destroyed the DSA one one day I

637
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: will do a whole thing about them, Like these these people,

638
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: like the Momentum people literally purged my friends for the

639
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 3: York Right and Arles Stevens is one of their enemies.

640
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 3: And that's not what this shit was fucking about. Like

641
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,919
Speaker 3: Arl Stevens is just a rapist. But you know, Max

642
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: Blumenthal and Ben Norton came in and we're like, oh shit,

643
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 3: this Arl Stevens guys like an anti imperialist, So we're

644
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 3: going to accuse the survivor of being a co intel

645
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 3: pro op. Oh and it's fucking it's so fucking bleak.

646
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 3: Max has deleted his tweet, but you can find it

647
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 3: if you. You know, I have screenshots of it and

648
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: I have wayback machine things of it because I was

649
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 3: there when this was happening, and none of these people

650
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 3: ever suffered any professional repercussions for this. They were just

651
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 3: fucking allowed to do this shit and nothing ever happened

652
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: to them.

653
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 4: I don't know.

654
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 3: It makes me just incredibly deeply angry.

655
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean it's it is like there's that

656
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: piece that goes around regularly about how like misogynists make

657
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 1: the best informants, and it remains a pretty durable fact

658
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: about organizing. Like if you run into people who are

659
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: immediately attacking the victim of sexual assault as some sort

660
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: of an informant because the person who committed it is

661
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: on the quote unquote right ideological side, that might tell

662
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: you something about the people who are doing that.

663
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, and this is this is this,

664
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the thing that like, like to

665
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,959
Speaker 3: this day, there were like really shitty left wing groups

666
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 3: who still do this stuff.

667
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: You know.

668
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 3: Okay, so we're going to move on from that to

669
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 3: some very okay, so this is, you know, all of

670
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 3: the stuff that Max Blumenthal had been doing until that point,

671
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 3: that was all inside of the bounds of what was

672
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: considered acceptable on the left, and that sucks, right, like

673
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 3: that's not good. But by about twenty twenty one, he

674
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 3: is I found the exact I'm pretty sure I found

675
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 3: the exact bunth with this happened. We're in twenty twenty one,

676
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 3: like Bluementhal just loses it like it is its specifically

677
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 3: August twenty twenty one, he very specifically starts like tacking

678
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 3: right really fast. And what he starts doing is he

679
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 3: starts he starts doing anti lockdown stuff, and so he

680
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 3: starts ranting about how like Australian lawmakers or proposing fians

681
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: for sharing information about anti lockdown protests and like fans

682
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: for finans for attending rallies, and he just gets more

683
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: and more into hardcore anti lockdown stuff and then into

684
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 3: stuff that's effectively just straight up anti vax stuff. One

685
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 3: of the things that he ends up doing is he

686
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 3: writes an article about like if people back remember in

687
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 3: COVID there was the whole thing about flattening the curve

688
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 3: and trying to get less people to die. And there

689
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: was this whole debate over whether you should just like

690
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 3: not have lockdowns and let everyone get COVID and that

691
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 3: would give you like quote unquote herd immunity and everyone

692
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 3: would be safe. And that's like like Sweden tried that

693
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: and it fucking killed almost other people. So it was

694
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 3: a terrible idea. But like the whole sort of Gray

695
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: Zone crew starts, well except for Ben Norton, who leaves.

696
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 3: It starts like rallying around this stuff. And it's really

697
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: weird because like like in twenty twenty when China was

698
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 3: doing the lockdowns, Ben Norton was really really pro lockdowns,

699
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: but as as twenty twenty one goes on, he starts

700
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: pivoting into this anti lockdown stuff. And so I first

701
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 3: saw the stuff from this journalist named Walter Bragman back

702
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 3: when he goes on Twitter is he starts like, he

703
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 3: writes an article that has a bunch of claims from

704
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 3: this thing called the Great Barrington Declaration. Do you if

705
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 3: you remember that?

706
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 4: Uh no, not really?

707
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, So so this this was this giant anti lockdown

708
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 3: like declaration that a bunch of right wingers were pushing

709
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: around that was it's this giant anti lockdown's creed that's

710
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: basically saying, like, the way to stop COVID is you

711
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: have to like open all the all the businesses again

712
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: forced when to go back to work, and then people

713
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 3: will get like infected with COVID and that will get

714
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,479
Speaker 3: the immunity to COVID, which is a terrible idea because

715
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: if you get infec did with COVID, there's you know,

716
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 3: the chance that you die.

717
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 4: Right, it's yeah, yeah.

718
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 3: But the interesting thing about the Great Barrington Decorations is

719
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 3: so it's created by the Economic the American Institute for

720
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 3: Economic Research. So we should ask who these people are.

721
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 3: So they are a right wing libertarian think tank, which

722
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: Bloominthal should hate, right he's supposed to be a leftist,

723
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: he should hate these people. They received sixty eight thousand

724
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: dollars from the Koch Brothers to do an economics conference,

725
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 3: a thing that they are very mad about anytime. So

726
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 3: everytime someone tries to bring it up and to talk

727
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 3: about how they're coke funded, they're like, well, we only

728
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 3: took sixty eight thousand dollars one time to do one

729
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 3: economics conference. You can't call us Coke funded. But then

730
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 3: like all their website they admit that they like quote

731
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 3: for the record, Aier received sixty eight thousand dollars in

732
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 3: Coke funding over the last ten years. And that's someone

733
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 3: was used entirely the offset the conference of a single

734
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 3: economics conference in twenty seventeen with no links to the

735
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: Great Bearrington decoration. But like you know, obviously, so the

736
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 3: reason the Coke's fun this thing is because these guys

737
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: have the same economics like politics as they do. And

738
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 3: you know, as someone who has taken zero dollars for

739
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 3: the Coke Brothers, I could safely say that it's bullshit

740
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 3: to say that we only took money for the Coke

741
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 3: Brothers once. So what what happens basically is the American

742
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: Institute for Economical Research has a like conference for a

743
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: bunch of weirdo hacks who are also technically scientists, to

744
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 3: put out this report saying the lockdowns that happened immediately

745
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: like after like the disease like COVID really started spreading

746
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 3: in the US. They said that that was a mistake

747
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 3: and they're advocating ending lockdowns, reopening businesses. And this was

748
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 3: an overtly pro business campaign to get a bunch of

749
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 3: people killed. Like that's what these people were trying to do.

750
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: But MaTx blumcdal suddenly is like pushing this stuff, like

751
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: in pieces that he's writing for grey Zone. It's very

752
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: deeply weird and this stuff just and as as like

753
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,760
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one goes on, this stuff gets like worse

754
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 3: and worse and worse. By twenty twenty one, the Blue

755
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 3: Wenthal was writing articles about an impending attempt to implement

756
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 3: social credit alongside Jeffrey Lofredo. So, okay, we need to

757
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: take this in two parts. We'll get to the social

758
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 3: credit stuff at a second. First we need to talk

759
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 3: about who Jeffrey Lefredo is because this guy, so, this

760
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 3: guy used to work at Rebel News, which is this

761
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 3: like I mean, like Garrison, I know, you know this

762
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 3: is you know, you two know what Rebel News is.

763
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 2: It's the Canadian Yeah, basically yeah, yeah, Canadian right part. Yeah,

764
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: it's like a bright bart info wars type thing. They

765
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 2: have like podcasts, no online sight. Yeah, they're like a

766
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: Canadian far right news source. Essentially, they also engage in

767
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 2: a lot of like activism.

768
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: It's one of the few relatively few Canadian far right

769
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: websites that also regularly goes viral in the US.

770
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like, I think it's also quite popular in

771
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: Australia or they have a in Australia.

772
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: They played a significant role in if you remember the

773
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: basically Caravan that drive.

774
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: We're gonna get to that.

775
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're geting to that.

776
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. So so Bluementhal is writing like an article with

777
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 3: Jeremy Lafredo, who is a guy who like wrote like

778
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 3: a million articles for Rebel News. In fact, as best

779
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 3: I can tell, he was still working for Rebel News

780
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: when Bluementhal starts like directly linking to Rebel News articles

781
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: about this stuff. Now it turns out he was actually

782
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 3: fired from Rebel News after a bunch of tweets surface,

783
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 3: which like, okay, the kind.

784
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: Of how hard it is to get fired from Rebel News.

785
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 3: I tracked down these tweets. It is I'm not even

786
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 3: gonna read any of them. There there, there are. There

787
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 3: are seven different tweets where he talks about how how

788
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 3: he wants to rate people. There's one where he's confascinating

789
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 3: that's just about him being a pedophile. There's a bunch

790
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 3: of him saying the N word. There's a bunch of

791
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 3: like incredibly racist, like Chinese anti Chinese stuff, which is

792
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 3: very funny because Max Weementhal presents himself as like the

793
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: big pro China guy, and here he is like writing

794
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 3: articles with this deranged gi anti Chinese racist and again

795
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 3: like this this got him fired like from Rebel News,

796
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 3: and the Max Blue went Thaw article with him is

797
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 3: still up now, So that that's insane enough, right. But

798
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 3: the part I wanted to talk the reason that was

799
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 3: a rabbit hole that I fell down while I was

800
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 3: looking at this article. The reason I want to talk

801
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 3: about this article in the first place is because he's

802
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: writing about social credit. Now. For people who don't recognize

803
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 3: the social credit stuff, here's the title of this article.

804
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 3: Quote the title is the subtitle. The Titans of global

805
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 3: capitalism are exploiting the COVID nineteen crisis to institute social

806
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: credit style digital idea sisms across the West. So what

807
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 3: is this social credit thing? This is like a this

808
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 3: is a very big right wing conspiracy theory thing, like

809
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 3: Alex Jones is a huge pusher of this. And basically

810
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: what they're saying is that they're going to import this

811
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 3: system from China that they say exists called social credit,

812
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: where like if you say something bad about the government,

813
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 3: you won't be able to like use your credit card

814
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: to buy food. And this is not how things work

815
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 3: in China. But it's very interesting because you know, these

816
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 3: right wingers are absolutely convinced that social credit is coming

817
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: to the US, Like this never happened, it was never

818
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 3: going to happen. But what's interesting about it is that

819
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 3: Gray Zone is specifically writing about this, which is insane

820
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 3: because again, this is this whole thing is an anti Chase,

821
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 3: an anti China conspiracy theory, and like all the sort

822
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 3: of Marcist Leninism's like whole one of their whole pitches

823
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 3: was that they are the like they they support China

824
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 3: against American imperialism, and then like within about a year,

825
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 3: like in like a one year span, they've just pivoted

826
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 3: to publishing like full on right wing social credit stuff,

827
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 3: and you know, by twenty twenty two it's gone even further.

828
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 3: This is this is this is where we get at

829
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 3: the Trucker's Convoy. So Garrison covered this extensively on the show. Yes, Yeah,

830
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 3: do you want to do like the really short version

831
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 3: of what that was. This A few kind of.

832
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: Quanon influencers, most of them based in Alberta, and then

833
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 2: a few other kind of conservative influencers tied to some

834
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: of whom were tied to rebel news kind of who

835
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: were based more throughout Canada, organized this event where a

836
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 2: whole bunch of truckers but mostly just regular people would

837
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 2: drive to the capitol and park outside until Justin Trudeau

838
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: would meet their demands or something like that. They were

839
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 2: out there for a few weeks. It really started getting

840
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 2: shut down by Canadian law enforcement when they started to

841
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: block one of the big trade border crossings between the

842
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: US and Canada. At that point it became enough of

843
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: a problem that the government was like, Okay, we're just

844
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: gonna like make you guys leave.

845
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 4: And that was that.

846
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: It caused kind of chaos in Ottawa for a few days.

847
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 2: It was compared a little bit to like it's like

848
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: Canada's January sixth, Not really, I mean it had a

849
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 2: very large mobilization of people, which was unique for Canada.

850
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: And we've started to see some of like the the

851
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 2: tactics and stylings of this of this trucker convoy get

852
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 2: adopted both in Canada and the States. We've we've had,

853
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 2: you know, versions of this tried to get started in

854
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: the States. Never they never reallycross Oh my god, there's

855
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: been there's been people have tried to do organize it

856
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 2: again in Canada. Hasn't really taken off the same way.

857
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: But but yeah, that is kind of the gist. I

858
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 2: I did a few episodes as this was ongoing, and

859
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 2: then I did a larger kind of piece about the

860
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: whole thing that was that was more scripted towards towards

861
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: the end of it. You can find those, I think

862
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: in like if you go back to like February of

863
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, you'll you'll find some some of those pieces.

864
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think I think the other thing that's

865
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 3: important to emercise about this is these guys are right wingers.

866
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 3: Like I have pictures of these guys waving Gustaci flags.

867
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: What if you saw your like the guys you did

868
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 3: the Holocaust in Croatia, Like, yeah, there.

869
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: There was a mix of like con servatives to like

870
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: actual fascists with like Nazi flags there like that. That

871
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 2: it was. It was pretty there was a pretty wide

872
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: ideological spectrum that's present now some conservatives weren't happy that

873
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 2: they're not that, yeah, trying to get them to leave.

874
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 2: You know, others are more ambivalent. But yes, there was

875
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: there was a large variety of of ideological representation at

876
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 2: the trucker convoy.

877
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. So here's Max Blumenthal's response to it. The lock

878
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 3: down Left spent the last weeks about academic theory to

879
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 3: undercut support for a trucker strike. Looks on with silent satisfaction.

880
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 3: Is the imperial Trudeau regime imposes the Emergency Act, freeze

881
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: bank accounts. They wanted this, So he's just fully like

882
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 3: fully spends this whole time fully on board with the

883
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 3: truckers thing. He's trying to convince people as a trucker strike,

884
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 3: which is it's not it's like objectively it's not. It's

885
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 3: it's almost all these people are like anti union who

886
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 3: are participating. Yeah, and they're also they're also like the

887
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 3: actual people who are truckers are the people who own

888
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: trucking companies. They're not like they're not the people who

889
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 3: are leasing trucks out. They are like the owners of

890
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 3: these trucks. So he's really doing this sort of like

891
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: like he's really doing this this sort of like pivot right,

892
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 3: like she was pupting himself. By twenty twenty three, he's

893
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: just posting straight up anti vax stuff like here, here's

894
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 3: the thing that he wrote about. Uh, Peter Holtz, who

895
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 3: was this guy? He was like this guy who was

896
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 3: I don't know, he's like a science guy. He was

897
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 3: like he was a really big target of the right

898
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 3: for a while because you wouldn't he kept for like,

899
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 3: there's there's this whole thing where Joe Rogan was trying

900
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 3: to debate him about wether vaccines worked, and it was

901
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 3: it was this whole weird thing, meeting of the minds. Yeah, yeah,

902
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 3: it's a bitefol With all his like, Bill Gates made

903
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 3: hundreds of millions of dollars off his investment in biotech

904
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 3: thanks to government subsidies and one of the greatest fear

905
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 3: campaigns in history. He called mRNA a miracle, VACS a miracle.

906
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 3: Now he admits the vaccines were semi worthless, big pharma junk.

907
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 3: And then, but after contributing so much social damage with

908
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 3: his unrelenting sanatory in demand for hard lockdowns and the

909
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 3: mass mandating of what amounted to experimental pharma junk, including

910
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 3: the small children hots seems desperate to avoid accountabilities. So

911
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 3: this is just straight up anti vax shit, right, Like

912
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: this is like where we are like now, It's like

913
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 3: he spent like a whole bunch of like the last

914
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 3: two years just tweeting anti vax stuff, and this got

915
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: fused with like the lab leak stuff really quickly. And

916
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 3: this is the thing I think is really interesting because

917
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 3: it's another demonstration that like he knows what he's doing.

918
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 3: So back in twenty twenty one, back like right after

919
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 3: the Atlanta the Atlanta Spas shootings happened, he like maxlely

920
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 3: Menthol's action to it was like, oh, yeah, here's a well,

921
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: here's this in light of recent racist attacks. Here's a reminder.

922
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 3: Josh Rogan's Trump disinfo dump the Washington Post blaming China

923
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 3: for cooking up COVID nineteen. In the Lab, Rogan cited

924
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 3: a US funded dissident as a fake scientist legitimated propaganda.

925
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 3: Now this is actually the stuff with the lab leak

926
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 3: is actually true, which is sort of wild. I mean,

927
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 3: it's not quite like the lablak stuff I think has

928
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 3: directly contributed to people getting attacked. The Atlanta's shooting. I

929
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 3: don't know, I did a bunch. I did two episodes

930
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 3: about it at the like a bit later. Yeah, if

931
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 3: you want to hear me talk about the full explanation

932
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 3: of that for a very long time. So that's what

933
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 3: he's saying. In twenty twenty one, right, is he has

934
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 3: correctly identified that the Lableik stuff is like the OCONN,

935
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 3: like Trump like anti China stuff. One year later, he

936
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 3: has Jeffrey Sachs on the show to talk about how

937
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 3: the US is covering up how the Pentagon, the National

938
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 3: Institute of Health funded biological research that created COVID nineteen

939
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 3: am wuhan. In one year, he has gone from calling

940
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 3: the lab leak like a neo kon quote a quote

941
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 3: Trump dis info dump that was created by a neo

942
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 3: kont to having Jeffrey Sachs on his show to talk

943
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 3: about how the lab leak is real and like like

944
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 3: this is bad enough just as an ideological shift, right,

945
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 3: but we need to talk about Do you guys know

946
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 3: who Jeffrey Sachs is? No?

947
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:25,479
Speaker 4: Not really?

948
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 3: Oh boy, okay, So Sachs is a Columbia University economists.

949
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 3: He is also the guy who did shock therapy both

950
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: in Russia and in Poland. Like this is the guy

951
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 3: who privatized the Russian economy and handed it over to

952
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: a combination of like American investors, Russian mobsters, and the

953
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 3: guys who would become Russia's oligarchy. Like he is the

954
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: guy who, like, if you are one of these people,

955
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 3: he should be enemy number one, right he is. He

956
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 3: is the guy who like destroyed if like, if you

957
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 3: believe this, he's the guy who destroyed Russian communism, right

958
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 3: he is. He is responsible. And this is this is

959
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:02,879
Speaker 3: one of the things that people will talk about a lot,

960
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 3: is how like all of the shock therapy stuff like

961
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 3: caused the largest drop in life expectancy between World War

962
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 3: Two and COVID, right, and like like Sax is not

963
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 3: a bit like Sax was literally in the room. He

964
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 3: was in the room in the Kremlin when the USSR

965
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 3: was dissolved. This is like, this is one of the

966
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 3: greatest anti communist in human history. And here is Max

967
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 3: Bloom with all a man who is supposed to like

968
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 3: his entire thing is about like opposing the imperialist to

969
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 3: over through communism, like sitting down having like a very

970
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 3: like a very sort of like having like a very

971
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 3: palaing around interview about that that is sax pushing a

972
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory, the Ladley conspiracy theory that he was literally

973
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 3: calling this info one year ago. And I don't know.

974
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 3: I thought about this for a long time trying to

975
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 3: figure out what was happening here, and the conclusion that

976
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 3: I came to is that this is the soul of

977
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 3: a man who believes in nothing. And you know, you

978
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 3: can you you can ask the question why do this?

979
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 3: And the short answer people tend to give is just

980
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 3: is money. And that's like true, but it doesn't go

981
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 3: anywhere near far enough, because I think the real answer

982
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: why these people did these right wing pivots is much

983
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 3: much worse. The actual reason people in left media suddenly

984
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 3: start taking right wing turns. And this is something we've

985
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 3: seen from like the Young Turks, like taking this like

986
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 3: anti trans, anti homeless pivots. There have been several other

987
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 3: outlets that have done a right wing turn. And this

988
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 3: is a structural problem in left media, which is that

989
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 3: if you're in left media, you have a massive and

990
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 3: you're trying to expand you have a massive problem. And

991
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 3: the problem is that the left in the US just

992
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 3: isn't that big. Right, Like there are more leftists now

993
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 3: than there've been for a very very long time. But

994
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: there's only so many leftists and you can't pull from

995
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 3: them all because leftists all hate each other. So even

996
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 3: if you try to corner like the market of one

997
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 3: faction of the left, another faction to the left is

998
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 3: going to hate you because this is just how this

999
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 3: is just how infighting works. And so if you're producing

1000
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 3: something that's designed for the left and only the left,

1001
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 3: there is built in a hard cap on how big

1002
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 3: your audience can get. And if you're successful, you can

1003
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 3: hit that limit. But if you want to grow more

1004
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 3: after that, you have to expand your ideological base, like

1005
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 3: the ideological base of your audience. But the problem is

1006
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 3: there's only two directions you can go right. You can

1007
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,959
Speaker 3: either try to get liberals to listen to your show,

1008
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 3: or you could try to get conservatives. But you know,

1009
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 3: for people like Max wely Monthal or like Jimmy dre

1010
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 3: for examples, another person who did this big like anti

1011
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 3: vax pivot around the same time maxle Monthal was doing it,

1012
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 3: they have a whole thing where they they're they're talking

1013
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,919
Speaker 3: about how ivermectin is actually a good COVID treatment together. Yeah,

1014
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 3: he used to be like a like a left wing

1015
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 3: YouTuber or like, yeah, he was a young guy from

1016
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:52,879
Speaker 3: the Young Turks and he went off into his own

1017
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 3: thing is now like just completely only does anti vax shit.

1018
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 3: But the problem is if you're if you're a Jimmy

1019
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 3: dor like, you're you're gray zone. Right, Recruiting liberals is

1020
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 3: really really hard because your entire brand is based on

1021
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 3: how much you hate liberals, and this means that the

1022
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 3: people who naturally agree with them are conservatives. And the

1023
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 3: other important thing here is that leftists don't have that

1024
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 3: much money, right, Like they're there's not there's like us.

1025
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 3: There's like there there are there are leftists who are

1026
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 3: like college students who have rich families who have some money.

1027
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 3: There's like a small number of like leftist business, but

1028
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 3: they like they don't have on average, leftists don't have

1029
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 3: that much money. On the other hand, conservatives have an

1030
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 3: enormous amount of money, and they are very very easily

1031
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 3: pandered to. If you just like pump out like bottom

1032
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 3: barrel anti vax shit, like, they will flock to you.

1033
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 3: And you know, whenever you need to get leftists sort

1034
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 3: of back on your side, right, you can just start

1035
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 3: tweeting a Pali sign and everyone will forget everything else

1036
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 3: you've ever done, because any like, any time anytime someone

1037
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 3: posts posts like a pro pales sign thing, people just

1038
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 3: click on it. Right, Yeah, this has been, This has

1039
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 3: been like so Maxlelyen with thus met the last about

1040
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 3: two years just doing anti vax stuff. The moment, like

1041
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 3: the moment Palestine became something that people were focusing on again,

1042
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 3: and you know, and there are reasons for that, right like,

1043
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 3: but the moment he did that, he just pivoted back

1044
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 3: into doing Palestine stuff, and everyone just completely ignored what

1045
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 3: he'd been doing this whole time. And if you do this,

1046
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 3: and you could you pander to you pander to the

1047
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 3: anti factors and making anti vax content. And then also

1048
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 3: you could just go back and regain your leftist credentials

1049
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 3: and get like views and support from leftists by doing

1050
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 3: Palestine stuff. You can make a lot of money, but

1051
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 3: there's a price. Every time you sell out to these people,

1052
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 3: you betray another part of yourself, until one day you

1053
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 3: believe in nothing left and the right and lose all

1054
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 3: meeting and the only thing that's left is content in

1055
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 3: the culture war. And I want to close this episode

1056
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 3: by talking by reading something from another contributor, Anya Parimpel,

1057
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 3: who is she's another Gray Zone journalist, and she's Matthew

1058
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 3: lu Wenthal's wife, and she she is the Gray Zone

1059
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 3: person who's reached the end of this cycle. I'm just

1060
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 3: gonna read what this looks like quote. The labels of

1061
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 3: left and right are outdated in the US. Case in point,

1062
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 3: leftist white men now pander to other white men by

1063
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 3: telling women of color their bigots for saying boys shouldn't

1064
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 3: be able to piss in the girls room. These same

1065
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:33,919
Speaker 3: punks spent months loudly advocating against bodily. I don't know, okay,

1066
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 3: her tweet just trails office is bodily. It says dot

1067
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 3: dot dot and just moves. Or I don't know. She's

1068
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 3: not a very good writer. Gender ideology has created a

1069
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 3: dynamic in which a bunch of men can come into

1070
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 3: organizing circles, play victim and a certain control over what

1071
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 3: is acceptable for others, especially women, to say and think.

1072
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 3: Most people know it's just misogyny tied up at a

1073
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 3: frilly bow, but are too afraid to I just thought,

1074
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 3: thought that's off again. I deeply weird now that participants

1075
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 3: in the Impression Olympics have spent weeks attacking an anti

1076
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 3: war rally because it didn't fit their tunnel vision for

1077
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 3: the movement. Gloves are off. Good luck winning over the

1078
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 3: people with your message. The same people who believed workers

1079
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 3: should not be mandated to take an experimental injection and

1080
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 3: that did not quote stop the spread cred my body,

1081
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 3: my choice in roe was overturned. Yet these same these

1082
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 3: are the same people who do not even believe biological

1083
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 3: women exist. Total incoherence.

1084
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: So this is this is just a collection of This

1085
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: is just a collection of like very basic right wing

1086
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 2: talking points like this is yeah, the the like the

1087
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 2: false correlation between like reproductive health care and like vaccines

1088
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: for public health, and the stuff of a gender gender ideology.

1089
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: All of it is just very very basic like talking

1090
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 2: points used used by the right that conflate various issues.

1091
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just like this is indistinguishable from the ravings

1092
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 3: of any other right winger. And this is just this

1093
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 3: is just where this stuff ends, because this this this

1094
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 3: specific line, this is how you fucking make money. And

1095
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 3: you know there's you know, I mean, we could talk

1096
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 3: about a million more iterations of how this these stuff

1097
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 3: fused together. I mean maxle Wental goes to like an

1098
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 3: anti VAXX rally that has a bunch of like three

1099
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 3: percenters and like a bunch of just straight up right

1100
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 3: wing fascists. But you know, this is at least one

1101
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 3: of the end points of where this stuff goes. But

1102
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,959
Speaker 3: tomorrow we're going to look at a group of people

1103
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 3: who took this even further. Yeah, it's a get ready

1104
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 3: for that shit because it's about to get wildly anti semitic.

1105
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: Oh great, hoorayo.

1106
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 2: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

1107
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1108
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 4: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

1109
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app, podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1110
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 2: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

1111
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 2: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources.

1112
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.