WEBVTT - A False Start and a Fresh Start for Devon Allen

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<v Speaker 1>Before we get started, please rate and review our show

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<v Speaker 1>that helps people find us. On this episode of Sports

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<v Speaker 1>Illustrated Weekly. With NFL preseason upon us and roster cuts looming,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of players out there are hoping to prove

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<v Speaker 1>themselves right now and stick with their team, including an

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<v Speaker 1>undrafted rookie with the Philadelphia Eagles. Before going to camp

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<v Speaker 1>in Philly, that had been six years since Stephen Allen

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<v Speaker 1>played football. He's best known for what he's done on

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<v Speaker 1>the track, where he's a world class hurdler who also

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<v Speaker 1>recently suffered an unfortunate and controversial outcome at the World

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<v Speaker 1>Championships in Oregon. Our producer Jessica Armoski has the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Alan trying to turn himself into a two sports star.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated and I

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<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly. Alright, Just so,

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<v Speaker 1>training camps are happening, one of them near and dear

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<v Speaker 1>to my heart. The Philadelphia Eagles are at camp and

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<v Speaker 1>they have a player there who I find very interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>Devin Allen. He's in camp with the Eagles. How's it

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<v Speaker 1>going for him so far? Considering he's playing football at

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<v Speaker 1>a high level. For the first time since. I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's going pretty well if you asked him, maybe not

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<v Speaker 1>as well as he would have hoped. I spoke to

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<v Speaker 1>Reuben Frank from NBC Sports Philadelphia. He was talking to

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<v Speaker 1>Devon pretty early on in training camp, and Devin Allen said, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's intense, all right. I think it's just learning how

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<v Speaker 1>to practice again. Um, learning how to play again. I think,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the nuances are most of him in college,

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<v Speaker 1>and then it's been so long since I've played, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I just gotta remember, you know that the intensity and

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<v Speaker 1>the tempo that all the coaches want and practice and

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<v Speaker 1>then how to practice and you know, get a good

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<v Speaker 1>rep even if we're just in outlets or we're just

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<v Speaker 1>in shells and stuff like that as well. Um, and

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<v Speaker 1>then also getting all the walk through reps I can.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the most frustrating thing for Devon Allen at

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<v Speaker 1>this point is he's leaving a sport for now where

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<v Speaker 1>he is incredibly six tessful, really highly decorated, just known

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<v Speaker 1>as you know, one of the best at what he does,

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<v Speaker 1>and then he gets through training camp and he's pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much like ninth in the pecking order. He hasn't been

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<v Speaker 1>getting a lot of opportunities to show off his skills

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<v Speaker 1>at camp. Here's what Ruben had to say. So, not

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<v Speaker 1>only is he competing against wide receivers who've been doing

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<v Speaker 1>this all their lives without a six year break, he's

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<v Speaker 1>playing against cornerbacks who are some of the best in

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<v Speaker 1>the world and know every trick in the book. And

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<v Speaker 1>pure speed doesn't get you open in the NFL, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that he is just kind of struggling to

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<v Speaker 1>stand out um, which must be frustrating, especially because he,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, really is coming off a sport where he

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<v Speaker 1>is so well known. So it's wild to me that

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<v Speaker 1>he hasn't played football in six years. He's undrafted. He

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<v Speaker 1>shows up to the Oregon Pro Day, the Eagles take

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<v Speaker 1>a liking to him aside. Is it just the speed?

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<v Speaker 1>What did they see that they wanted to bring him

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<v Speaker 1>into camp? Yeah, so we know that he's fast, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, the Eagles general manager Howie Roseman, he's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thinking outside the box always when he's looking

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<v Speaker 1>for people to sign. Reuben Frank reminded us of Jordan Malatta,

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<v Speaker 1>the rugby player that Howie Roseman signed, you know, back

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand six. He signed an Olympic skier still

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<v Speaker 1>the only Olympic skier to ever be signed by the

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<v Speaker 1>NFL Jeremy Bloom. So you can imagine that Roseman was

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<v Speaker 1>looking at Alan kind of through that lens as someone

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<v Speaker 1>who maybe isn't necessarily a shoe in, but could bring

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<v Speaker 1>a lot to the team. They did look at film,

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<v Speaker 1>Ruben told me, and you know, it was old film.

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<v Speaker 1>It was from like two thousand fourteen, two thousand sixteen,

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<v Speaker 1>which I kind of thought was funny, and they were impressed.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you think of a track guy playing football,

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<v Speaker 1>You think of like a fragile, you know, a finesse

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<v Speaker 1>type player with great speed. But they saw a guy

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<v Speaker 1>who didn't back down physically from from defensive backs and

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<v Speaker 1>and had to write mentality, he didn't look like a

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<v Speaker 1>track star playing football. It looked like a football player,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that's what appealed to them, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>So they go from a skier to a rugby player,

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<v Speaker 1>and now they've got Devin Allen, who, as we know,

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<v Speaker 1>is excellent on the track. He's a three time national

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<v Speaker 1>champion in the one ten hurdles. The timing here really

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<v Speaker 1>works out for Allen, right, because he signs in April.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got the U S Championships in June, He's got

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<v Speaker 1>the World Championships in July, and now he's in camp

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<v Speaker 1>with the Eagles in August. He's got a lot going

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<v Speaker 1>on for Devin Allen. The timing is everything and it

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<v Speaker 1>has worked so well in his favor. He went to

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<v Speaker 1>the US Champs in June, he took third place. The

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<v Speaker 1>top three went to Worlds. It actually came out after

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<v Speaker 1>the race that his dad had passed away the weekend

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<v Speaker 1>of the meet. So he's basically running with this huge

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<v Speaker 1>life thing happening and really hard to tell in the race.

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<v Speaker 1>He still, you know, got third, he qualifies for Worlds,

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<v Speaker 1>and Yeah, he seemed to be just on the up

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<v Speaker 1>and up. With the World Champs in July and Eugene,

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<v Speaker 1>his home stadium, he looked good to contend for a medal.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of fans were expecting him to

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<v Speaker 1>come out and get on the podium. And then, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>his plan was transitioned back to football for the time being.

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<v Speaker 1>See what he could do when he dipped his toes

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<v Speaker 1>into the NFL. He was really set up for a

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<v Speaker 1>successful transition. Yeah, I was excited for him at the

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<v Speaker 1>World Championships. As you mentioned, it's his home track in Eugene, Oregon,

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<v Speaker 1>first time the World Championships had been held in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States, and so everybody, I think, kind of expected

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<v Speaker 1>him to end up on the podium. But man, it

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<v Speaker 1>did not go well for him. Tell everybody what happened

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<v Speaker 1>to Devon Allen at the World Championships in Oregon. It

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<v Speaker 1>did not go well for him. That's I mean, exactly

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<v Speaker 1>as you said. He got through the heats and the semis.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a sense that he didn't quite look like

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<v Speaker 1>himself in those early rounds, but the finals all that matters.

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<v Speaker 1>He gets the line in the final, and I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>say that he was a heavy favorite for gold necessarily,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, this guy really delivers when it matters,

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<v Speaker 1>is um and I think a podium finish was in

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<v Speaker 1>sight for him. The gun goes up, say the gun

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<v Speaker 1>goes off again, calling the runners back to the line.

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<v Speaker 1>A callback gun is jarring obviously for athletes, jarring for fans,

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<v Speaker 1>for people watching in the stadium, for the watching on TV.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just it's kind of this like eerie feeling. You

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<v Speaker 1>know that something bad is coming. You're scanning the line

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<v Speaker 1>for who it could have been. It's late three I

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<v Speaker 1>think now. I've seen a lot of false starts, and

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<v Speaker 1>usually if they're pretty late, you can see them with

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<v Speaker 1>the naked eye. Then if you can't see it in

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<v Speaker 1>real time, you go back and you look at the

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<v Speaker 1>slow mo. This false start was absolutely imperceptible. Even in

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<v Speaker 1>slow motion. What we saw was that the gun went

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<v Speaker 1>off and he got out of the blocks. It was

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly hard to understand end what had just happened, even

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<v Speaker 1>when he watched the footage and come to find out

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<v Speaker 1>why is that pete fall started by a second he

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<v Speaker 1>appeared to be trying to talk to the official at

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<v Speaker 1>the track, uh be trying to reason with him. The

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<v Speaker 1>start went to replay, and there was this thought, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe he'll run anyway, he'll file a protest later. But

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<v Speaker 1>after a few minutes and the crowd did not like this,

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<v Speaker 1>he walked off the track. His world championships were over.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone was doing it was a really really intense moment. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's such a bummer. I mean like I was. I

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<v Speaker 1>was bummed out for him. A second chest sounds impossible.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like this couldn't possibly be something that they

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<v Speaker 1>could measure but apparently they did. That had to be

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<v Speaker 1>immensely frustrating for him. No, so frustrating. And it's even

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<v Speaker 1>more frustrating when you kind of dig into this rule

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<v Speaker 1>and if it seems arbitrary, that's because it is, I

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<v Speaker 1>think we can say. So. The idea is you want

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<v Speaker 1>to have a fast time between when you hear the

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<v Speaker 1>gun and when you actually push out of the blocks,

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<v Speaker 1>but not too fast because if it's too fast, then

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<v Speaker 1>there's a chance that you ignored the gun and just

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<v Speaker 1>went early, and that could impact obviously your race unfairly.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was like, this rule makes no sense. Where

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<v Speaker 1>did it come from? Why does it exist? And I

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<v Speaker 1>ended up speaking to Steve Magnus, who's an expert on

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<v Speaker 1>health and human performance. He's coached a lot of pro

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<v Speaker 1>athletes over the years, and come to find out this

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<v Speaker 1>rule was actually developed in the sixties when timing mechanisms

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<v Speaker 1>were not the same as they are now, and it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't until the mid nineties when World Athletics, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the international governing body for track and field, said yep,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the official standard. Here's Steve. And to back

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<v Speaker 1>that up, they had a study that only had eight

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<v Speaker 1>amateur finish sprinters in it that said, up, no one

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<v Speaker 1>reacted faster than than point one. Oh, so this is

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<v Speaker 1>this is the new standard. So the fact that this

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<v Speaker 1>rule was codified into existence based on a study with

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<v Speaker 1>eight amateur sprinters, and now suddenly pro runners around the

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<v Speaker 1>world are being held to it, obviously, you can see

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<v Speaker 1>why it's pretty frustrating. Devon Allen was the third pretty

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<v Speaker 1>big name DQ in this meet. A lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>started digging into the starting data and the timing data

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<v Speaker 1>in Eugene specifically. Yeah, so if you look at the

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<v Speaker 1>data um and compare it to past World championships across

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<v Speaker 1>spread events, they're all reacting a hundred. They're too faster

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<v Speaker 1>than they normally would. So the average, the median is

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<v Speaker 1>all faster reactions. In fact, I was looking the other

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<v Speaker 1>day and normally we only have, you know, maybe a

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<v Speaker 1>handful of reaction times that are really close to that

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<v Speaker 1>point one response, and in this track meet we've had

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<v Speaker 1>something like thirty. Now for their part, World Athletics came

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<v Speaker 1>out and was like, look, everything's okay with the timing,

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<v Speaker 1>but we'll look at the rule in the future. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>take it into consideration in the future. Now a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people saw that as them conceding to maybe this

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<v Speaker 1>rule isn't fair, maybe we should revisit it. But that

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<v Speaker 1>didn't change a lot for Devon Allen. The race had

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<v Speaker 1>already been one, the medals had been awarded, and there

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<v Speaker 1>was this really somber shot of Devon watching the race

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<v Speaker 1>from the call room, just sitting on like a folding

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<v Speaker 1>chair watching the race. And it was pretty heartbreaking to

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<v Speaker 1>know that because of this rule, because he was a

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<v Speaker 1>really good starter, but a little bit too good on

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<v Speaker 1>this day, he was out of contention for a medal.

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<v Speaker 1>That's insane, Jess. I mean, you call it heartbreaking. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's exactly right. If that had been me, I

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<v Speaker 1>would never get over it. I would think about it

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<v Speaker 1>for the rest of my life. And Devon Allen, now

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<v Speaker 1>he's a Eagles training camp and he's a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>removed from it, but he's never going to be clear

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<v Speaker 1>of what happened in Eugene, and he's still being asked

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<v Speaker 1>about it even at Eagles camp. Right, What did he

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<v Speaker 1>have to say about what happened at the World Championships. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he spoke to Reuben Frank at training camp and he

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<v Speaker 1>said when he heard the callback On. Obviously, his first

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<v Speaker 1>feeling was panic. I know the rules, right, you can't.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not supposed to be able to run into protests

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<v Speaker 1>unless there's a problem with the equipment or something you know,

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<v Speaker 1>outside the external to start, like crowd noise or somebody

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<v Speaker 1>making noise on the field or you know, pull volt

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<v Speaker 1>or shopping or throwing whatever like that. Um, so you

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<v Speaker 1>know it's pretty much just panic right away. But the

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<v Speaker 1>thing is is, because of the timing, he didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>have a chance to let it get to him so much.

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<v Speaker 1>He didn't have a chance to stew over it. He

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<v Speaker 1>had to report for camp and his focus had to

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<v Speaker 1>change no matter what had happened at the meat. So

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<v Speaker 1>there's this sense that Devin Allen is an incredible hurdler.

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<v Speaker 1>We know this, you know, Reuben and I were chatting

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<v Speaker 1>about how Devon Allen could roll out of bed in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of the night and run in the low

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<v Speaker 1>thirteen for the one ten hurdles, just to give you

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<v Speaker 1>an idea. The world record is currently twelve eight, so

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<v Speaker 1>that's really fast. And there's this idea that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>not that hurtling comes easy to him, but she's really

0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:10.760
<v Speaker 1>good at it. He kind of sails through it. He

0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.480
<v Speaker 1>does really well and he wanted a new challenge and

0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.319
<v Speaker 1>that is why he showed up at Eagles training camp

0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.120
<v Speaker 1>ready to go and ready to see what he could

0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.120
<v Speaker 1>do in a completely different kind of way. All Right,

0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 1>so he's in camp with the Eagles. I'm rooting for him.

0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.160
<v Speaker 1>I want something good to happen for Devon Allen, especially

0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.880
<v Speaker 1>after what happened at the World Championships. Just but as

0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 1>we know, this is kind of a long shot. He's undrafted,

0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.800
<v Speaker 1>he hasn't played football in six seasons. But the good

0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.040
<v Speaker 1>news is the Eagles wide receivers after A. J. Brown

0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.840
<v Speaker 1>and DeVante Smith are not great, so he has a chance.

0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.720
<v Speaker 1>What are his prospects looking like? What are the guys

0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 1>who you talked to in Phillys saying about Devon Allen? Yeah?

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.840
<v Speaker 1>I got the sense in talking to people about this

0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 1>that it's unlikely that a permanent roster spot will become

0:12:54.559 --> 0:13:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Devan Allen's, but it's not impossible. Ruben Frank thinks that

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:03.680
<v Speaker 1>there is a potential that he could get a spot

0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.960
<v Speaker 1>on the practice squad. Still pretty lucrative and because of

0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.760
<v Speaker 1>these new rules under COVID, teams can pull up as

0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.640
<v Speaker 1>we know two players each game from the practice squad,

0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.080
<v Speaker 1>so he has the potential to be called up and

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.080
<v Speaker 1>get a couple of game checks, which pretty good deal

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.559
<v Speaker 1>for Devon Allen. The other thing is, again, timing is

0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.080
<v Speaker 1>so working out for him. Football wraps up in February,

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 1>indoor track really starts ramping up in February, and you

0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:30.600
<v Speaker 1>can bet that you're going to see him back on

0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.160
<v Speaker 1>the track. He's not done with track. He wants to

0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.120
<v Speaker 1>obviously keep going, but in terms of doing both sports,

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.079
<v Speaker 1>timing is really on his side. It would be great

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:42.800
<v Speaker 1>to see him back on the track. I'm glad that

0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.679
<v Speaker 1>he's not abandoning that sport for football. Practice squad probably

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 1>is the best case scenario for him. So fingers crossed

0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 1>on that one. As we know, a preseason is underway.

0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 1>The Eagles just played the Jets in their first preseason game.

0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:58.960
<v Speaker 1>How did Devin Allen do tell me he had a

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 1>great game on I was really hoping that I would

0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.439
<v Speaker 1>have an amazing story for you, an amazing answer to

0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.200
<v Speaker 1>this question. Devon Allen played the best game of his life.

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:15.320
<v Speaker 1>He stood out, all eyes were on him. That didn't happen.

0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.440
<v Speaker 1>I think the game was decent for Devon Allen. He

0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 1>only played eight snaps on offense and seven on special teams,

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 1>not a ton of playing time if you're looking at

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 1>that as an indicator of his future with the Eagles.

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't a game where he stood out that much.

0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, you know, he was out

0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 1>there in an Eagles uniform playing, and I think we

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.160
<v Speaker 1>just have to wait and see what happens with these

0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.200
<v Speaker 1>roster cuts. I'm interested in this story just because it

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.120
<v Speaker 1>has so many layers. I'm interested in it because he's,

0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, a track superstar who's trying his hand in

0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 1>football again. So just from a journalism standpoint, I'm fascinated.

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.800
<v Speaker 1>And then also it's got that hometown flavor for me.

0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 1>But are Eagles fans also curious about Devon Allen? What

0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 1>do they think of them? That's what I wanted to know.

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.600
<v Speaker 1>I asked Ruben, if you know Devin Allen was welcome

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:09.040
<v Speaker 1>to Philly with open arms by those fans. Never happened before?

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.720
<v Speaker 1>He said, not quite. Um, you know, the Eagles have

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.480
<v Speaker 1>a wide receiver at camp who is turning a lot

0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.960
<v Speaker 1>of heads. Britain Covey from Utah really interesting story, and

0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Ruben told me that his star is potentially starting to

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 1>shine a little bit brighter than Devin Allen is getting

0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more attention. I will say that in

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 1>the preseason game against the Jets, Brittain Covey reportedly tore

0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>some ligaments in his hand. He may or may not

0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.360
<v Speaker 1>be out for some time because of that. Could this

0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 1>be a chance for Devin Allen's star to rise? The

0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:47.240
<v Speaker 1>answer to that right now is we'll see. Maybe we

0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 1>don't know. But for me as a track fan, sure

0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 1>he may not be the talk of the town in Philly,

0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.040
<v Speaker 1>but I'm excited to watch him play. I want to see,

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, how this translates over to the NFL, and

0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to definitely keep watching Alright, just this was great.

0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.360
<v Speaker 1>I am rooting for Devon Allen. I hope it works

0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 1>out for him in a way that it didn't work

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.960
<v Speaker 1>out for him at the World Championships. Excellent reporting by you.

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for this, Yeah, thanks for having me on special

0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.120
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to Ruben Frank and Dave zan Garrow from NBC

0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Sports Philly for passing along Devon Allen's interview audio from

0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Eagles training camp. Thanks for listening, and a reminder to

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.680
<v Speaker 1>please rate and review the show that helps people find us.

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.160
<v Speaker 1>Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of Sports Illustrated and

0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.440
<v Speaker 1>I Heeart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,

0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 1>visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 1>you get your favorite shows. This episode of Sports Illustrated

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Weekly was produced by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica Armoski, and Isaac Lee,

0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.920
<v Speaker 1>who was also our sound engineer. Our senior producers are

0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Dan Bloom and Harry sward Out. Our executive producers are

0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Scott Rody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is

0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 1>by Nolan Schneider and if you've stuck around this long,

0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 1>we leave you with this. Yeah. Milrose when it was

0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 1>at the Garden was the greatest. When I started going

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.719
<v Speaker 1>to mill Rose, I mean everybody guys were smoking, like

0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.560
<v Speaker 1>this cloud of cigarettes smoke, and like you know, Rick

0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Walhooter's out there running like three fifty seven. It was unbelievable.