Speaker 1: My next guest has spent more than four decades monitoring
Speaker 1: America's border. He joined the United States Border Patrol in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four. In twenty thirteen, he was appointed by
Speaker 1: then President Barack Obama as Immigration and Customs Enforcements Executive
Speaker 1: Associate Director. He was charged with enforcement and removal operations
Speaker 1: under that administration. Then, in twenty seventeen, he was appointed
Speaker 1: as the Acting Director of ICE by then President Donald Trump. However,
Speaker 1: he subsequently retired from the position in twenty eighteen. Now
Speaker 1: he's back with President Trump in this new administration. As
Speaker 1: the borders are. Please, welcome to the Stephen A. Smith Show.
Speaker 1: Mister Tom Holman s Horman.
Speaker 2: How are you, sir? How's everything?
Speaker 3: I'm doing great.
Speaker 2: Being on the show. Let's get right to it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to remind our audience that you served under
Speaker 1: President Obama. He tapped you to lead the Immigration and
Speaker 1: Customs Enforcements Deportation Branch at twenty thirteen. How does your
Speaker 1: role differ now between the Obama and the Trump administrations?
Speaker 1: How does it different from what it was then to
Speaker 1: what it is now.
Speaker 4: Well, look, under President Obama, I was ahead of enforcement
Speaker 4: remover operations. When I was there. We oversaw the removal
Speaker 4: of to Shire three million illegal aliens. Now I'm the
Speaker 4: I'm Bordzar under President Trump. I have a direct report
Speaker 4: to the President here, so I overlook The presidents signed
Speaker 4: me on this new role. I oversee border operations. I
Speaker 4: got three goals, secure the borders, run a deportation operation,
Speaker 4: a massive deportation operation. And third find this some children,
Speaker 4: children that were smuggling into the country and the last
Speaker 4: administration lost track of them. We need to find these
Speaker 4: children because many of them will be in Harmon's way.
Speaker 4: Many are, but we need to find these children, make
Speaker 4: sure they're safe.
Speaker 1: And I mentioned that Donald Trump at a point that
Speaker 1: you as active director of Vice at twenty seventeen, but
Speaker 1: you retired in twenty eighteen. What happened then and why
Speaker 1: you back now? Because you stepped away, but obviously you
Speaker 1: came back. You served over thirty years. I mean, you've
Speaker 1: given your service and what have you. And you could
Speaker 1: have retired and went out into the sunset, but you
Speaker 1: came back.
Speaker 2: Why did you feel compelled to do so? So appleseiate
Speaker 2: that with hold my audience.
Speaker 4: Well, it's the second time I came back and out
Speaker 4: of retirement from President Trump didn't. Me and my wife
Speaker 4: were happy. But now how do you not come back?
Speaker 4: I mean under the last four years. You know, I
Speaker 4: wake up every day upset in the last four years
Speaker 4: because we had the most secure border in my lifetime,
Speaker 4: and I've done it since. As you said nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 4: it's more secure border in my lifetime.
Speaker 3: The numbers proved it.
Speaker 4: And what the last administration did when opened the border up,
Speaker 4: I knew every day when I woke up, more women
Speaker 4: and children are being sex traffick across an open border.
Speaker 4: More Americans would die from fatonyl overdoses, poisonings because of
Speaker 4: an open border. Sex trafficing women and children would increase
Speaker 4: on an open border, and more no inspected terrish and
Speaker 4: people on the wash list, We'll get into the country
Speaker 4: through an open border. So I was insulted that President
Speaker 4: Biden took the most secure border in my lifetime and
Speaker 4: unsecured it on purpose.
Speaker 3: And I mean that.
Speaker 4: Look, I worked for six presidents starting round Reagan. Every
Speaker 4: president I worked for, including Obama and Clinton, took steps
Speaker 4: to security the border. If they clearly understood you can't
Speaker 4: have national security if you don't have border security. President Biden,
Speaker 4: the first president history of this nation who came in
Speaker 4: unsecured border, so and upset me. Can I you every
Speaker 4: day someone's going to die across that border. Women are
Speaker 4: going to be sex yourself to across that border. So
Speaker 4: when President Trump called me, it is you know, he
Speaker 4: asked me if I if you want to come back
Speaker 4: and you know, help fix that border. I didn't hesitate.
Speaker 4: I came back because I think it's the right thing
Speaker 4: to do.
Speaker 2: You've worked, obviously doing what you've done.
Speaker 1: It's spanned decades, so obviously one could easily surmise you
Speaker 1: have a lot of intel. You have a lot of
Speaker 1: access to information that the average American citizen may not know.
Speaker 2: What have you?
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, And I don't mean to
Speaker 1: ask it politically, but I'm asking it this way. Have
Speaker 1: you received any kind of explanation as to why former
Speaker 1: President Biden literally went against what former President Barack Obama
Speaker 1: did during his presidency one and in the number show
Speaker 1: he actually deported more immigrants out of this country than
Speaker 1: Trump did. Yet Biden comes into office in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: and he went completely against what Obama had done. You
Speaker 1: ever received intel explanation as to why he did that.
Speaker 3: You know, that's a great question. You're the first one
Speaker 3: to ask me that question. Right now.
Speaker 4: I surmise I have an opinion that I think this
Speaker 4: administration thought these millions of people are going to be
Speaker 4: future Democratic voters. But one of the things Biden also did,
Speaker 4: in addition to destroying all the programs we put in
Speaker 4: place that give us some more secure border, he over
Speaker 4: Trump overturned the Trump's census rule, which means millions of
Speaker 4: people they released the sanctuary cities will be counted in
Speaker 4: the next census, which is going to result what more
Speaker 4: seats and house for the damage. So I truly believe
Speaker 4: they saw offut your political benefit of this. But you're
Speaker 4: exactly right, and I've said this, Why do I think
Speaker 4: he did it on purpose? Because Joe Biden was vice
Speaker 4: president under Barack Obama.
Speaker 3: When he had those record removals.
Speaker 4: Ali Hondo Majorkis was a deputy secretary under Obama. Won't
Speaker 4: have those remove and we had a families, We had
Speaker 4: thousands of families coming across the border every day.
Speaker 3: How do we stop it.
Speaker 4: We built family residents and centers. We held them long
Speaker 4: enough to see a judge ninety percent lost the case
Speaker 4: ninety percent. So if I'm in the airplane, send them home.
Speaker 4: Border numbers ten. So both those men knew how we
Speaker 4: solved that crisis. When it came back in as now
Speaker 4: the Secretary and the president, what do they do the
Speaker 4: complete opposite. They didn't defend, they released, then, didn't make
Speaker 4: them see a judge, and.
Speaker 3: They weren't removing them.
Speaker 4: So they did the complete opposite of what they knew
Speaker 4: worked under President Obama.
Speaker 1: Wow, let me ask you this though, because you mentioned
Speaker 1: children on several of your answers already, and I know
Speaker 1: you mentioned you're trying to find children that were separated
Speaker 1: from their parents.
Speaker 2: How does that process work? Actually?
Speaker 1: How do you go about the business of finding, you know,
Speaker 1: children that have been separated from their parents.
Speaker 4: Well, look, that's I'm gonna be honest with it, been
Speaker 4: honest from day one. That's just that's going to be
Speaker 4: the hardest out of the three goals that I have,
Speaker 4: that is going to be the hardest, and for obvious reasons,
Speaker 4: half men and children, more than half men and children
Speaker 4: were smuggling in the country, separated from their parents, putting
Speaker 4: the hands of criminal cartels to be brought in this
Speaker 4: country legally, and you know you and I we leave
Speaker 4: our child in the car in the middle of summer,
Speaker 4: we'll get arrested. But these five hundred thousand children were
Speaker 4: putting hands or criminal cartells released into the country by
Speaker 4: the last administration. Last administration was concerned about one thing, optics.
Speaker 3: So the.
Speaker 4: Instructions to O r R, which is division AHHS, was
Speaker 4: to process release as quickly as you can, because if
Speaker 4: there's no overcrowding, we can say the board is secure.
Speaker 3: Nothing to see here, right.
Speaker 4: Even the Secretary of AHHS, but Sarah, on stage several
Speaker 4: times he was bragging how quickly they released these children
Speaker 4: so so called sponsors. Here's the problem. They didn't bet
Speaker 4: these sponsors appropriately. Under Trump administration, we did DNA testing.
Speaker 4: We not only sponsored, we not only betted a sponsor,
Speaker 4: we betted everybody in that household to make sure there
Speaker 4: wasn't a child predator in that household, make sure there
Speaker 4: wasn't a gang member in the household. We took a
Speaker 4: lot of steps to make through. These children gonna be
Speaker 4: saved when they're sent to the sponsors. Under this administration,
Speaker 4: the whistleblowers at HHS has made it clear many of
Speaker 4: these sponsors weren't fingerprinted many of them, they weren't run
Speaker 4: through record checks, and many of the identification they provided
Speaker 4: was not assured that there was a legitimate identication. So
Speaker 4: here's the issue. Now, we got three hundred thousand children
Speaker 4: we need to find, and there's a way to find
Speaker 4: you and me, Steven. We have a footprint, we have
Speaker 4: a digital footprint. We owned homes, we owned cars, we
Speaker 4: pay bills, we got we got loans, you know, and
Speaker 4: we got we.
Speaker 3: Got utility bills. Whatever. They can find us.
Speaker 4: But a child don't have that digital footprint, which means
Speaker 4: we got to use the digital footprint of the sponsors
Speaker 4: and what information they provided, and we know a lot
Speaker 4: of the information is fraudulent. So it's gonna be a
Speaker 4: difficult job. I can tell you right now. We'll find
Speaker 4: some of these children, and not every one of these
Speaker 4: children are in harms way.
Speaker 3: Many of the won't find there with their parents. Many
Speaker 3: of them are not.
Speaker 4: Based on my four decades of doing this, many of
Speaker 4: these children in forced labor. We already found many in
Speaker 4: forced labor. Some are going to be in sexual slavery,
Speaker 4: and so we need to find these children and save them.
Speaker 4: But that's the hardest part about this job because of
Speaker 4: the data that we have is not the best data
Speaker 4: in the world. But we're not going to give up.
Speaker 4: President Trump's committed to do everything we kind of find
Speaker 4: these children.
Speaker 2: Let me get back to you with this question too.
Speaker 1: Though, you're considered one of the master minds of the
Speaker 1: first Trump administration's infamous zero tolerance policy, which led to
Speaker 1: the separation of thousands of migrant children from their parents.
Speaker 1: In the eyes of many, at the very least, the
Speaker 1: idea led to the separation of more than I think
Speaker 1: four thousand children from their parents, and some were lamenting
Speaker 1: that some of them will put in cages. How do
Speaker 1: you answer these questions for those that don't know, how
Speaker 1: do you answer questions like that, like I just post
Speaker 1: to you in terms of four thousand children being separated
Speaker 1: from their parents?
Speaker 4: Absolutely so, where does zero talents come from? Zero challenges
Speaker 4: came from this? Thirty one percent of women that make
Speaker 4: the journey get raped by the macartels. Children were dying
Speaker 4: on that border every day, dying either drowning the river,
Speaker 4: dying making that journey. Children were sexually assaulted, and children
Speaker 4: were dying in the desert. You know, they made that journey,
Speaker 4: and a lot of women and children not only died,
Speaker 4: many were sexual assaultants. So we said, look, how can
Speaker 4: we save lives? How can we stop the sexual assault
Speaker 4: the children? So we said, look, let's prosecute them because
Speaker 4: it's a crime dangerous country legally. So if we prosecute
Speaker 4: them and put them in jail, maybe the numbers go down,
Speaker 4: maybe less will come. And it worked zero talents that
Speaker 4: the numbers of families put themselves in harms way to
Speaker 4: and put themselves in hands of criminal cartels drop significantly. However,
Speaker 4: the saddest part about it, the unfortunate part about it,
Speaker 4: is that when you prosecute a parent and put them
Speaker 4: in jail, the child won't go with them. And I'll
Speaker 4: say this, I started as a police officer in New York.
Speaker 4: Police agencies across this country separate families a thousand times
Speaker 4: a day across this country. Child doesn't go to jail
Speaker 4: with a parent. And I've said during my testimony one
Speaker 4: time I was tested my hell, when I was a
Speaker 4: cop in New York, when I went to domestic bonus
Speaker 4: car and I arrested the father, I separated that family.
Speaker 3: Child can't go to jail with them.
Speaker 4: When I wrestled Dui and he had a child in
Speaker 4: the car, I separated that family. It's an unfortunate and
Speaker 4: satisfying law enforcement. Families get separated when the parents get arrested.
Speaker 4: So we do let the families a thousand times a
Speaker 4: day in this country with Americans. But they want a
Speaker 4: different set of rules for illegal aliens. But the whole
Speaker 4: intent of doing this was to save lives with less
Speaker 4: sexual assaults of women and children. That was the whole
Speaker 4: purpose for it. But they keep hertputting on that Trump's
Speaker 4: family separation policy. But and you're right about four thousand,
Speaker 4: but they don't talk about the five hundred thousands half
Speaker 4: the main separations that this administration responsible for, because they
Speaker 4: send a message to the whole world. If you're a
Speaker 4: child and across country illegally, you're not.
Speaker 3: Going to be deported. Will deliver you to the.
Speaker 4: Very same people who pay the criminal cartel the smuggling
Speaker 4: in this country.
Speaker 3: So you know, we did.
Speaker 4: What we did was try to save lives and decrease
Speaker 4: sexual assaults. What they did was send a message the
Speaker 4: whole world. Jalok across the border will get them to
Speaker 4: the final destination at government expanse and reward the people
Speaker 4: who pay the criminal cartoons bring and that's why the
Speaker 4: numbers exploded, because there's no consequence. We had a consequence
Speaker 4: they did.
Speaker 1: That's an incredibly, incredibly compelling answer that you just gave.
Speaker 1: I can't refute it, No one should, as far as
Speaker 1: I'm concerned, sir. But I would ask you this because,
Speaker 1: whether it's optics or it's a reality, listening to what
Speaker 1: you said, how sensitive you are to these issues. What
Speaker 1: one would argue diametrically opposes that is when we see
Speaker 1: one story, and granted it's one individual, but it's still
Speaker 1: a ten year old in Texas who's a US citizen
Speaker 1: being deported to Mexico, you know, suffering from brain cancer.
Speaker 1: You've seen that story plastered all over the news wise over.
Speaker 2: The last couple of days.
Speaker 1: How do you explain your mode of thinking and your explanation.
Speaker 2: About why you do what you do and why.
Speaker 1: You're admitted to doing what you're doing, which is pretty
Speaker 1: damn close to irrefutable, I might add, But then we
Speaker 1: see a case like that happening, how do you just look?
Speaker 4: You and I are in the same page. Actually, I've
Speaker 4: been on travel last couple of days. I saw that
Speaker 4: on my way to work this morning. I read that story,
Speaker 4: and what did I do? I immediately contacted the Office of
Speaker 4: the Board Chow, and said, I want facts in this case,
Speaker 4: cause many times the facts are different when you read
Speaker 4: the media. But I've already inquired about it. What happened here?
Speaker 4: What's the ground tooth here? So so I'm looking into it.
Speaker 4: I just I've read that story this morning. I know,
Speaker 4: on my day behind, but I get hundreds of phone calls,
Speaker 4: one hundred texts, I have a lot of meetings, I'm
Speaker 4: on my airplane on time. But I've asked this morning
Speaker 4: because we want to make sure. Look, I've been honest
Speaker 4: from the beginning. We want to be transparent American people.
Speaker 4: If we screw up, we didn't know, we screw up
Speaker 4: if we do something. So I've already asked that question.
Speaker 4: I don't have the facts on the end. I've asked
Speaker 4: for fact ground truth on that and I'll deal with
Speaker 4: it once I get the facts that on the ground
Speaker 4: from what actually happened, because many times what you read
Speaker 4: the media, they leave half the story out.
Speaker 3: Sometimes they don't. But I'm going to find out. Well.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that answer. That's very honest to stand up
Speaker 1: for you. Thank you for saying that. Are you saying
Speaker 1: that you don't know all the facts?
Speaker 3: Shit?
Speaker 1: And if you do find out that this ten year
Speaker 1: old child was indeed a United States citizen, that you
Speaker 1: will make sure that child is not deported.
Speaker 4: I'll make sure I get all the facts, will make
Speaker 4: the decision based on the facts. I can't tell you
Speaker 4: what I'm gonna do. Yeah, the facts could be a
Speaker 4: thousand different ways, right, but like, are the parents of
Speaker 4: public safety threat? Are they national security? They can't be here,
Speaker 4: and so we got to find out where the facts are.
Speaker 4: But we'll make we'll make a decision that is the
Speaker 4: most humanitarian thing we can do.
Speaker 1: Let me switch to sanctuary cities because obviously I've seen you,
Speaker 1: and I must I shouldn't say. This is actually bad
Speaker 1: for me to say this on camera, but I haven't
Speaker 1: minded you at all. You know, going at elected officials
Speaker 1: and law enforcement officials and letting them know that they
Speaker 1: were going to be accountable if they didn't follow the
Speaker 1: law didn't bother me at all to see that from you.
Speaker 1: But I am wondering what are your future plans for
Speaker 1: sanctuary cities and do you see a league to sanctuary
Speaker 1: cities in this country?
Speaker 3: I actually do. We're working on some things right now.
Speaker 4: I don't want to share it here on this podcast
Speaker 4: because it's a long enforcement sensus. We're working on some
Speaker 4: things now, but I can say this, sanctuary cities are
Speaker 4: sanctuary to criminals, and we're going to home accountable and
Speaker 4: Pam bonding now that she's the attorney general, she's already
Speaker 4: filed lawsuits and we're going to continue fining lawsuits because
Speaker 4: we think knowingly releasing a public safety threat back in
Speaker 4: the public is just dumb. There's no reason. Fact when
Speaker 4: you release a public safety threat back in the public,
Speaker 4: it puts your officers at great risk because rather than
Speaker 4: arresting somebody in the safety and security of county jail,
Speaker 4: now we've got to go to the neighborhood and find them,
Speaker 4: which is dangerous for the officer, dangerous for the alien
Speaker 4: because anything can happen on street arrest, and it's certainly
Speaker 4: dangerous for the community. So we want to make sanctuary cities.
Speaker 4: You don't understand, they're hurting themselves because when you don't
Speaker 4: give us access to the bad guy locked in the
Speaker 4: jail set, which is safe for everybody. You release them
Speaker 4: to the community, you're going to get exactly what you
Speaker 4: don't want, going to put the public greater of crime
Speaker 4: because many will will will commit another crime. And what
Speaker 4: you're going force ice in the community and we'll.
Speaker 3: Find the bad guy.
Speaker 4: But when he when we find them, he's probably with others,
Speaker 4: others that aren't a criminal threat, but they're in the
Speaker 4: country legally. Well they're going to go to because we're
Speaker 4: not going to turn our back on illegal anim once
Speaker 4: we find it. We're going to let ice do their
Speaker 4: job and enforced immigration law. So what you get being
Speaker 4: a sanctuary city is exactly what you don't want, more
Speaker 4: officers in the community and more collateral rest because we
Speaker 4: found them while we're looking for the bad guy. So
Speaker 4: we want the sanctuary city to do one thing.
Speaker 3: Let us end the jail.
Speaker 4: Let us talk to the person that you locked in
Speaker 4: the jail cell because obviously the public safety thread give
Speaker 4: us to that person. It's safer for everybody. It's the
Speaker 4: right thing to do. And the and the message from
Speaker 4: sanctuary cities are is this, which is which is a
Speaker 4: bunch of crap. Well, we're a sanctuary city, We're welcome
Speaker 4: in jurisdiction because we want illegal aliens to feel safe
Speaker 4: and they want to report crimes or the victim of
Speaker 4: crime to come to us for help without the fear
Speaker 4: of working with ice. That is just that is soul
Speaker 4: false because number one, we don't want to talk to
Speaker 4: victim witness. We want to talk to the guy you
Speaker 4: locked in the jail cell. And if you go talk
Speaker 4: to the victim and witness and ask them do you
Speaker 4: want the bad guy released back in your neighborhood, the
Speaker 4: victim and witness don't want them back either. So let
Speaker 4: us get access to the person locked in that tax
Speaker 4: payer funt of jail to help drive crime down the
Speaker 4: neighborhood and make it safe for officers and alien in
Speaker 4: the community. It just makes sense to me as a
Speaker 4: career cop. I don't understand why any elective official whose
Speaker 4: number one responsibility is protecting their community, why would you
Speaker 4: not work with us to remove a child rapist from
Speaker 4: the community rather than release them back in the community.
Speaker 1: I got about three more questions with you, because I
Speaker 1: know your time is precious and I really appreciate you
Speaker 1: giving me this time. Prior to the election, you pledged
Speaker 1: to conduct the largest deportation in American history. That is
Speaker 1: more than eleven million undocumented immigrants living in the United States.
Speaker 1: Where do we stand today in terms of identifying those
Speaker 1: individuals and deporting them out of the country.
Speaker 4: Great question, because I read a media story this morn
Speaker 4: We're deporting less people than Joe Biden. Yeah, because Joe
Speaker 4: Biden had millions of people coming across border every year
Speaker 4: and a lot Borgatoes are removing a lot of them,
Speaker 4: So you can't compare. The ministration isn't how many removed.
Speaker 4: It's our number one, how many did you release into
Speaker 4: the country legally? And Biden administration is in the millions.
Speaker 4: And the more important question is how many interior arrests?
Speaker 4: People in the interior countries do you arrest? If you
Speaker 4: look at those numbers, we're about three times hired and
Speaker 4: Joe Biden was during the same time period, we got
Speaker 4: about thirty six thousand rest so far vast majority of criminals.
Speaker 4: Because President Trumps promised American people on this mass deportation
Speaker 4: operation the worst first, the criminals first, because they're the
Speaker 4: biggest danger of communities. National security threats polled, the safety threats.
Speaker 4: That's when we're concentrating on them, but that aperture will
Speaker 4: open to the one point four men that had to
Speaker 4: process a great tax payer expense were order removed, but
Speaker 4: instead of leaving, they became excusitive. That aperture opened up.
Speaker 4: So you will see the rest increased in the very
Speaker 4: near future. But the problem is sanctuary cities. Sanctuary cities
Speaker 4: are making us less efficient. Well, rather than one agent
Speaker 4: arrest in one bad guy into jail, now we've got
Speaker 4: to send the whole team into the neighborhood for officeral
Speaker 4: safety reasons to find somebody that want to be found.
Speaker 4: So that's that that's slowing us up. But what we'll do,
Speaker 4: we'll double demandforce those sanctuary cities, We'll double the teams.
Speaker 4: We're not gonna be stopped, and we'll overcome all the
Speaker 4: roadblocks are putting in. But we're gonna get it done.
Speaker 1: But you're talking about a Guatanamo Bay, for example, there's
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of available space, but there are millions
Speaker 1: of immigrants in this country illegally. So I'm saying, if
Speaker 1: you're successful from a deportation standpoint in terms of locating
Speaker 1: who those individuals are, there's only but so much room
Speaker 1: in Guantanamo Bay.
Speaker 2: Where else are they gonna go? What are you gonna
Speaker 2: do with them?
Speaker 4: Another great question I've been I've been on media for
Speaker 4: the last two weeks. Congris needs to fund this operation.
Speaker 4: We need money because you're right, every illegal we arrest,
Speaker 4: we need a bed for our bets almost.
Speaker 3: Pulled right now.
Speaker 4: So we need money so so we can do what
Speaker 4: the American people have voted for. The number one issue
Speaker 4: was illegal immigration, removing criminals. So Congress needs to come
Speaker 4: and give us some funding to do this. We need
Speaker 4: to buy more beds. We needed to have more out
Speaker 4: of country of planes. We need more contracts. To have
Speaker 4: more contracts. People come in and do the work that
Speaker 4: doesn't require law enforce, not law enforces currently doing. So
Speaker 4: you're exactly right. Congress needs to come through. I'm hoping
Speaker 4: they sign a bill today or hopefully tonight. We need
Speaker 4: to build right now, but we need reconciliation. We need
Speaker 4: money to be successful because if we more money we have,
Speaker 4: the more successful we're going to be.
Speaker 1: I got admit, mister, that should be the easiest part
Speaker 1: of your job. I mean, the president has all three
Speaker 1: branches of government in this favor. I mean the GOP
Speaker 1: has at the White house to send it the house.
Speaker 1: I mean, it shouldn't be difficult at this particular moment
Speaker 1: in time for them to give you what you want,
Speaker 1: since they assigned you to do this job. But I
Speaker 1: want to transition real quick to undocumented workers. So a
Speaker 1: lot of people argue, you know, they've had a massive
Speaker 1: economic benefit. They've been a massive economic benefit to this country.
Speaker 1: They pay taxes, are important to the workforce, are less
Speaker 1: violent than some naturalized citizens.
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
Speaker 1: That you keep hearing people say, what role does that
Speaker 1: play in your thinking when it comes to issues of deportation.
Speaker 3: Look, if you're in the country legally, you got a problem.
Speaker 3: It's not okay to be here legally.
Speaker 4: But as you know, we're prioritizing worse of the words fuses.
Speaker 4: And here's here's the issue. I'll use you one example,
Speaker 4: and this is a true example. I had a new
Speaker 4: roof put on my house two years ago. I had
Speaker 4: to call six companies before I got a company that
Speaker 4: guaranteed me in legal workforce. And one person that showed
Speaker 4: up was a father and son. Father and son used
Speaker 4: to have twenty United States citizen employees, but him and
Speaker 4: his son came by and see kind of just repaired
Speaker 4: to roof. Do we need to replace your rough because
Speaker 4: him and the son can't replace whole rough. Here's the story.
Speaker 4: He told me he had to fire twenty USSAIS employees
Speaker 4: because he was competing against all these companies had illegal
Speaker 4: aliens paying them, you know, seven bucks an hour again
Speaker 4: on the rough. Well, here's playing us system twenty bucks
Speaker 4: again out of rough. People need to understand that no
Speaker 4: one hires an illegal alien on the goodness or heart,
Speaker 4: so Hartman can pay him less, work them further, work
Speaker 4: them harder, and undercut their competition as US citisen employees. Now,
Speaker 4: I will say this, if we need we need that
Speaker 4: type of staff to become this country and work, then
Speaker 4: it's up to Congress to make the changes. But we
Speaker 4: can't condone hiding your legal innest because that's what drives
Speaker 4: everything else. When you overwhelm the boardertrow with what people
Speaker 4: call innocent immigration, just people coming here for better life,
Speaker 4: people com up for a job. But what they need
Speaker 4: to understand there's an ugly underbelly of that because you
Speaker 4: when you overwhelm the borderrature you type border throw up
Speaker 4: what they call innocent immigration. It overwhelms the border to
Speaker 4: which meetures less agents on the border to the rest
Speaker 4: people smuggling fatanyl. There's less people agents on the board
Speaker 4: to stop the sex trafficking. What happened Joe Biden. Joe
Speaker 4: Biden calls such a huge surge and Aligo mcgras seventy
Speaker 4: percent of agents were pulled off the line to deal
Speaker 4: with humanitarian christ and deal with what so called innocent
Speaker 4: illegal migration. And when they did that, what happened steve
Speaker 4: six hundred percent increase in sex trafficking. We have quarter
Speaker 4: Americans dead from fatanyl. We got a record number of
Speaker 4: people on terras washers scrouss the border. So there's we
Speaker 4: gotta do this legally. There are millions of people standing
Speaker 4: in line right now, taking their tests, paying their fees,
Speaker 4: doing the background investigation, come to the country the right way.
Speaker 4: They're sitting in the back seat because CIS is overwhelmed
Speaker 4: with frauds and assiglument claims. So I get it. If
Speaker 4: we need a workforce, need more workforces in the country,
Speaker 4: then create a legal program. They can come with a
Speaker 4: visa so they don't have to pay a Krimla cartel,
Speaker 4: they don't have to give their whole life savings to
Speaker 4: put themselves at risk for krimla cartel and swim across.
Speaker 3: River and drown.
Speaker 4: So the Congress needs to do some work. But we
Speaker 4: can't condone illegal migration. We can't condone go ahead and
Speaker 4: enter the country leading and we're not going to be
Speaker 4: looking for it. We got to send a message of
Speaker 4: the whole world. There's a there's a set of rules.
Speaker 4: There's a right way and the wrong way to come
Speaker 4: to the greatest nation on the earth. There's two things.
Speaker 4: The right way, well, I got I gotta look at
Speaker 4: legislative branch Congress to do that.
Speaker 3: But the meantime, we can't okay.
Speaker 4: Illegal migration because it's going to result more people dying,
Speaker 4: more women being raid, more cartels, you know, making more
Speaker 4: money to come to the bloodless country with poisonous vent mom.
Speaker 1: Very last question to you, sir, I give you the floor.
Speaker 1: You want America to know what about Ice right now
Speaker 1: today and moving forward.
Speaker 4: I'm sick and tired of reading stories. The ICE is
Speaker 4: going to raide your school, They're going to raide your churches.
Speaker 4: They're doing neighborhood swites. People need to understand everybody the
Speaker 4: ICE arrests. It's based on a targeting enforcement operation, which
Speaker 4: means they know who they're going to rest, they have
Speaker 4: a pretty good idea where they're going. They have to
Speaker 4: drop an operational plan. So it's not neighborhood sweees. We're
Speaker 4: not going through neighborhood looking for people different than us.
Speaker 4: And when we got way the sense of location policy,
Speaker 4: we ended it. Why because we have to go to
Speaker 4: a high school arrest of MS thirteen member we know
Speaker 4: there right now, he's a public safety tread. We need
Speaker 4: to go in that high school along with the local
Speaker 4: authorities and arrest that public safety tread. Doesn't mean we're
Speaker 4: going to raide the school. I mean we're going to
Speaker 4: arrest the bad guy that's in the high school, the
Speaker 4: same as every other federal law enforces see at law
Speaker 4: enforcement A and S, state law enforce, a ced local
Speaker 4: they they all do it, and I should not have
Speaker 4: a different.
Speaker 3: Set of rules.
Speaker 4: We'll go in to schools the rest of public safety
Speaker 4: threat significant public safety threat.
Speaker 3: Churches we'll never rate at church.
Speaker 4: But if we know this is the national security that
Speaker 4: we know is in a church right now that we're
Speaker 4: looking for, and we know he's sitting there right now,
Speaker 4: we're going to arrest that person. Doesn't mean we're rating school.
Speaker 4: It doesn't mean we're rating church. And we're not raiding hospitals,
Speaker 4: which I saw. I see the lost left media saying
Speaker 4: it they're scaring the immigrant community. I want people to
Speaker 4: go to school. We want people to go see their
Speaker 4: doctor and go to the hospital.
Speaker 3: Go to church.
Speaker 4: We got to straighten that narrative about it's a left
Speaker 4: that are putting fear in immigrant community. We are basing
Speaker 4: our operators right now, the worst of the worst criminals.
Speaker 4: So go to church, go get your medical care, send
Speaker 4: your children to school. We're not raiding those places that
Speaker 4: We're doing the same thing every every law enforcement agency does.
Speaker 4: It's not sweeps, partner enforcement operation, a lot of planning.
Speaker 4: We do this carefully. The agents are very very professional.
Speaker 4: So I just wish the left would just state the
Speaker 4: truth and what we're exactly doing.
Speaker 3: Look at that data.
Speaker 4: As I just said, thirty six thousand arrest, vast majority
Speaker 4: of criminals will be doing exactly what President Trump said
Speaker 4: we would do and what I said we would do.
Speaker 4: We're patrying worset worse.
Speaker 2: First, there's no left to right here.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I care about the damn truth, and as
Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, I want you to know, first
Speaker 1: of all, you're welcome back on the show anytime. I
Speaker 1: would love to have you back on to getting more
Speaker 1: intensive conversations about this, even more so than we just
Speaker 1: did over this last twenty plus minutes. I thank you
Speaker 1: for your time, and please feel free anytime you've got
Speaker 1: something to say and you want to come back and
Speaker 1: you want to have a conversation, please know that you're
Speaker 1: welcome to come back on the show.
Speaker 2: So I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Thank you, sir. I appreciate you
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 1: One and only Tom Holman aka the Borders are he
Speaker 1: oversees the southern border, the northern border all my time.
Speaker 1: And of course aviation security is Tom Homer right here
Speaker 1: on the Stephen A.
Speaker 2: Smith Show. Really really happy that he came on, yeh