Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Markmas Show,
Speaker 1: where we talk about the decentralized revolution each and every week,
Speaker 1: talking about the way the world is changing, and of
Speaker 1: course we look at it through the lens of politics
Speaker 1: and finance and technology. And of course that technology we
Speaker 1: talk about is the Bitcoin decentralized network. We talk about
Speaker 1: that each and every week because it's technology that changes
Speaker 1: the way the world work. It changes the way that
Speaker 1: we organize, we communicate, and so I like to bring
Speaker 1: to you, you know, some of the latest breaking news
Speaker 1: of education to help you think about things differently, learn
Speaker 1: to see the world differently, and of course some interesting
Speaker 1: guests so you can hear from some people other than
Speaker 1: me all the time. And so I'm coming to you
Speaker 1: from Jackson Whole, Wyoming, where I am in town a
Speaker 1: place that I've been dreaming of coming for a long
Speaker 1: time because of the snow. And here I am, and
Speaker 1: we are here for a Bitcoin ski Week. Is the
Speaker 1: first of it's kind of two hundred and fifty approximately
Speaker 1: of the sort of I don't know, industry leading people
Speaker 1: that are kind of moved and shaking the bitcoin space.
Speaker 1: And we're talking about all types of good ideas and
Speaker 1: I managed to grab somebody to come sit on the
Speaker 1: radio with me, and that is Justin Resvanni. He is
Speaker 1: the founder of Zion app. And so Justin, thanks for
Speaker 1: taking the time talking to me today. Thank yeah, man.
Speaker 1: I love getting together and hanging out. We've had amazing talks.
Speaker 1: The last couple of days, Justin and I got some
Speaker 1: amazing powder runs. Yeah, it's great. Snow, great snow. Oh man.
Speaker 1: The the benefit of doing like meetings like this and
Speaker 1: like a cool place like this, Like we got to
Speaker 1: hang out, we gotta do cool things, and then we
Speaker 1: get a snowboard. It's cool. It's cool doing life this way.
Speaker 1: It's like we have work to do, very deep work,
Speaker 1: but then you can kind of expand the horizons play
Speaker 1: a little bit. Like I think as humans, we're here
Speaker 1: to have fun at the end of the day, Like imagine,
Speaker 1: like sometimes we take things too seriously and it's nice
Speaker 1: to just lay back and like, look, let's go ski
Speaker 1: and then talk about work at the same time. Well,
Speaker 1: I know, you know, this is kind of a different
Speaker 1: than what I want to jump into. I want to
Speaker 1: talk about how decentralized networks and there's been several that
Speaker 1: have popped up lately, including zions. So I want to
Speaker 1: talk about that, but before we get into that, just
Speaker 1: for everybody listening, we're gonna talk about that and how
Speaker 1: decentralized networks will help us beat censorship and change censorship
Speaker 1: and communication and change the world. We'll talk about that,
Speaker 1: but before we get into that, just to the point
Speaker 1: you said. Something I've been pounding on the table on
Speaker 1: is that today we have like all these people that
Speaker 1: are victims. I can't get ahead because the government, and
Speaker 1: I can't get ahead because of inflation. But it's like,
Speaker 1: we are not victims and we can build the life
Speaker 1: that we want. Sure, And you're certainly someone who's done that, right,
Speaker 1: I mean I think so. And I think it's very
Speaker 1: possible to do whatever you want. I think on this planet.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can really push your boundaries and if
Speaker 1: you work hard enough and if you apply yourself in
Speaker 1: this weird way, you can almost get anything done that
Speaker 1: you want. You just have to expand your horizons. I think.
Speaker 1: I think people just don't expand their horizons. Yeah, So again,
Speaker 1: this is not what I want to talk about, but
Speaker 1: I do want to talk about this for a second.
Speaker 1: It's impromptu here, so people have these fears or they
Speaker 1: feel this and this this oppression that they think is
Speaker 1: holding them back. Like, UM work a cubical job and
Speaker 1: I make forty thousand dollars a year and I'm stuck
Speaker 1: here and I get two weeks of vacation a year,
Speaker 1: and I'm too broke to go to Jackson Hole. So
Speaker 1: woe's me? I'm this victim. What's wrong with that viewpoint?
Speaker 1: And how could they maybe do something about that? I
Speaker 1: think that victim mentality doesn't push you forward in any way.
Speaker 1: I don't know a single person that has a net
Speaker 1: worth of over one hundred million dollars that complains about
Speaker 1: their victim even millions, Like like like let's say I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I throughout a higher number there. But
Speaker 1: like I, no one that's made it has ever played
Speaker 1: that card. They've never done it. They just they just
Speaker 1: pushed through and they persevere. So I think we're living
Speaker 1: in an age where information and content is one of
Speaker 1: the most valuable things that's available on the Internet, and
Speaker 1: you can figure out anything that you want if you
Speaker 1: just apply your mind to it. And I'll give a
Speaker 1: real example here. I did not know about bitcoin two
Speaker 1: and a half years ago. I owned it, but I
Speaker 1: had no idea the concept, And within eighteen months I'm
Speaker 1: at these events. I'm running one of the largest lightning
Speaker 1: companies in the world, and it's just because of my
Speaker 1: extreme pressure to understand and be knowledgeable in the space.
Speaker 1: And now today we're gonna talk about decentralized networks and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And I just think that we have
Speaker 1: this knowledge available to us. We have YouTube, we have
Speaker 1: amazing people like you making content on the internet. You
Speaker 1: can learn a ton of stuff and you can synthesize
Speaker 1: that knowledge and provide value to someone else and create
Speaker 1: financial freedom for yourself. Like knowledge is not gapped anymore,
Speaker 1: Like you don't have to have a university degree to
Speaker 1: be smart about things. You can get out of that
Speaker 1: job if you choose to. But I think it's a
Speaker 1: function of laziness, Like we are a society that's fat
Speaker 1: and lazy because we're comfortable. We've gotten too comfortable. And
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, the most successful people that
Speaker 1: I know constantly put themselves in comfortable situations to progress forward,
Speaker 1: because once life hits you in the face, you've already
Speaker 1: been prepared for it. Right. I go to the gym
Speaker 1: every day and destroy my body or go jump on
Speaker 1: this mound and do double black diamonds. Not because I
Speaker 1: necessarily enjoyed. Yes, I do, but I want to be uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: When I did iron Man full time, I had no
Speaker 1: reason to do an iron Man right other than the
Speaker 1: fact that I want to push myself forward to do
Speaker 1: something very hard. I think everyone needs to apply that
Speaker 1: in their life and you'll get better. Yeah, something that
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about a channel I might have sent
Speaker 1: you to it. I've sent a bunch of people to it.
Speaker 1: It's called Academy of Ideas on YouTube, and it's like
Speaker 1: a philosophy channel, and kind of like what we were
Speaker 1: talking about last night, how I always approach everything humbly
Speaker 1: because if I can learn one thing, and sometimes it's
Speaker 1: the same thing I've already heard, but it just hits
Speaker 1: me different. And he had this episode where he said
Speaker 1: that we should try to increase our power. And he
Speaker 1: said not power as in like power and control over people,
Speaker 1: but power over ourselves. And so we should always be
Speaker 1: trying to increase our skill level, right, And he said that,
Speaker 1: he said, what we want is a formidable opponent. So
Speaker 1: I know you'd like to play pickaball for example, right,
Speaker 1: you don't want to play with someone who's a beginner,
Speaker 1: I can't hit the ball back. You want to play
Speaker 1: someone who's at least as good as you, but probably
Speaker 1: someone better than you because they make you better. So
Speaker 1: you want a formidable opponent. And so if you're going
Speaker 1: to go to the gym, you don't want lightweights. You
Speaker 1: need heavier weights. You need a formidable opponent. And so
Speaker 1: what I got from this, as I it's been a
Speaker 1: couple weeks I've been thinking about this, is that in
Speaker 1: life we need a formidable opponent. We need the pressure
Speaker 1: to push back on us to make us go forward.
Speaker 1: And so the paradigm shift that I got from that
Speaker 1: piece of content was that rather than looking at adversity
Speaker 1: and hardships as something negative, I can't believe I have
Speaker 1: to deal with this. I can't believe things are so hard.
Speaker 1: Why does it have to be like that? Instead, it's
Speaker 1: a formidable opponent. Thank you that I have this opportunity
Speaker 1: to push that heavyweight. Thank you that I have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to play a pickaball person. Thank you that I
Speaker 1: have this struggle, this problem that I have to figure
Speaker 1: out how to get over, because it's going to make
Speaker 1: me a better person, and without it, I'm only going
Speaker 1: to become a worse person. And I think that's about people.
Speaker 1: People are so afraid of pushing these boundaries for themselves
Speaker 1: because inherently, our mind is always trying to keep us safe, right,
Speaker 1: That's what the mind is designed to do, and comfort. Comfort.
Speaker 1: It's designed for comfort because the mind was built in
Speaker 1: a society that didn't have hotel rooms and heaters and
Speaker 1: air conditioners and food at abundance. That's the way the
Speaker 1: mind was originally engineered. But now that we live in
Speaker 1: a state of abundance, we have to seek discomfort. We
Speaker 1: have to go out of our way and seek discomfort
Speaker 1: in our lives. That's why we go to the gym,
Speaker 1: that's why we climb out, that's why we go into
Speaker 1: an ice bath, that's why we progress and all these
Speaker 1: things because you need to challenge the mind. The mind
Speaker 1: is not challenged enough, I believe. Yeah, that's the thing
Speaker 1: is and I think that's the concept, is that in
Speaker 1: order to excel, we must seek discomfort. So that was
Speaker 1: our little ran too. It's not where we want to go,
Speaker 1: but it just kind of came in prompt you. But
Speaker 1: I do want to bring something up because I put
Speaker 1: this on my end Intagram yesterday, my story. If you're
Speaker 1: not following on Instagram, you should just at one Mark
Speaker 1: Moss check it out. What's yours? Justin? Justin Resvanni, Justin Revanni,
Speaker 1: So check us out on Instagram. But I put this
Speaker 1: on my story yesterday and it was a screen shot
Speaker 1: that someone else I saw on Twitter, and it says,
Speaker 1: if you make forty thousand per year and you spend
Speaker 1: eighty five percent and you invest fifteen percent in index
Speaker 1: fund that averages ten percent of return, after forty years,
Speaker 1: you're going to have three million dollars. And I said,
Speaker 1: this is the wrong way to think. I said, why
Speaker 1: spend the next forty years of your life making forty
Speaker 1: thousand a year? Like, really, I'm going to work in
Speaker 1: a cubicle for forty years making forty grand, saving fifteen percent.
Speaker 1: Why not invest in yourself? Why not learn high value
Speaker 1: skills to learn how to make more money? It's never
Speaker 1: been easier. If you're just tuning in, you're listening to
Speaker 1: the Mark Mos show, we talk about the decentralized Revolution,
Speaker 1: and I'm in the studio with Justin and Resvonni. We're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about decentralized networks and three that are popped up,
Speaker 1: including Zion in some other ones that Jack Dorsey just launched.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be back in a minute. I take a
Speaker 1: quick break. We're gonna talk more about that and show
Speaker 1: you how you can use these in what they are.
Speaker 1: So don't go away. We're gonna be right back in
Speaker 1: a second. All right, welcome back. If you just tune in,
Speaker 1: you are listening to the Mark Moss Show. Of course,
Speaker 1: we talked about the decentralized revolutions here every week, and
Speaker 1: I am coming to you from Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I'm
Speaker 1: in studio with Justin Rezvani, the founder of Zion app
Speaker 1: just launched version two, just launched about two weeks ago.
Speaker 1: You should check it out. I'm building the community there.
Speaker 1: You can be on my community there. Tony Robbins is
Speaker 1: tweeting about it. I mean, come on, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be really big. But anyway, I'm gonna just finish off
Speaker 1: what we were talking about before and we'll get into
Speaker 1: the decentralized networks. There's three that you should have on
Speaker 1: you on your radar, and so anyway, but back to
Speaker 1: this just for one second so I'd said before the
Speaker 1: break this tweet that I saw, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: making forty grand a year, and I'm just like, how
Speaker 1: how ridiculous that? And you made the case. You said
Speaker 1: something if you have the motivation. And one of my
Speaker 1: favorite personal development gurus who I for a long time,
Speaker 1: this guy Brian Tracy, who wrote a book called The
Speaker 1: Psychology of Sales and talked about how if you want
Speaker 1: to be a great salesperson in this book, he said,
Speaker 1: you know, you can go learn all the information you
Speaker 1: need is out there, he said, But if you have
Speaker 1: no motivation, I'm sorry, there's no hope for you. And
Speaker 1: me and my wife we still laugh about that line
Speaker 1: today ten years later or twelve years later, But that's
Speaker 1: the truth. If you have motivation, you can learn anything.
Speaker 1: You can improve your life, you can increase your skills,
Speaker 1: you can make more money. The very fact that other
Speaker 1: people can do it means that you should able to
Speaker 1: do it too, if you have the motivation for it. Right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and I think you need enough motivation to leave right.
Speaker 1: I think what's happening in society also is that we're
Speaker 1: in this comfort base layer. And this happens in relationships.
Speaker 1: This happens in jobs where that the benefit of leaving
Speaker 1: still hasn't counteracted to you. You You haven't realized that, Like, man,
Speaker 1: if I leave, then go try something else. I don't
Speaker 1: have enough motivation to do that. And sometimes people just
Speaker 1: need to be pushed a little bit more to say,
Speaker 1: you know what, this job is not fulfilling for me.
Speaker 1: Let me go try something else. This relationship isn't perfect,
Speaker 1: let me try something else. So you need that motivation
Speaker 1: just to push you there to go to that next
Speaker 1: layer and say, you know what, I'm going to take
Speaker 1: a risk and go out. Yeah. Do you do ice
Speaker 1: baths every day? Every day? So that's a that's a
Speaker 1: big thing that's been getting popular. I mean, so a
Speaker 1: story about ice bats is in twenty fourteen, I went
Speaker 1: and bought a chess freezer and I filled it up
Speaker 1: with water and I wired it in a way that
Speaker 1: would be turned off only one hour of the day
Speaker 1: I could unplug it. So this was before ice baths
Speaker 1: were cool. I would wake up every morning at six am,
Speaker 1: no matter the temperature, and I jump in that thing
Speaker 1: to three to five minutes, and I like it was
Speaker 1: a thing for me, not because I needed the motivation
Speaker 1: to get into an ice bath was because it was
Speaker 1: my mental state that so no matter what, at seven
Speaker 1: in the morning, I'm gonna go in this thing, even
Speaker 1: though I don't want to and I'm uncomfortable, but to
Speaker 1: train the mind the reason why you need to go
Speaker 1: in the ice bath because you don't want to exactly,
Speaker 1: it's I don't, I don't. Just for disclaimer, I don't
Speaker 1: do the ice bath. I love it. I mean I
Speaker 1: love it. I mean on my Instagram you'll see like
Speaker 1: I put people in ice bats that have never been
Speaker 1: in there. There's videos with a bunch of my friends
Speaker 1: have millions of views because they're like, this is the
Speaker 1: first time they were in this. It was actually just
Speaker 1: a chess freezer, like this was before it was cool.
Speaker 1: And I was doing that since twenty fourteen. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I know Tony Robbins, who again has been tweeting about
Speaker 1: Zion app check it out Tony Robbins tweet Twitter or Zion.
Speaker 1: But anyway, he I had seen him say he you know,
Speaker 1: he has whatever fifteen houses around the world and he
Speaker 1: has an ice bath every single one, and he said
Speaker 1: something like, there's never been one single day that I
Speaker 1: haven't tried to talk myself out of it. Of course,
Speaker 1: never once your mind is saying, like, because there's no
Speaker 1: reason for you to do this, because the mind is
Speaker 1: saying this is uncomfortable. I don't want to do this.
Speaker 1: But that's where greatness has created in the uncomfortable moments.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget my first full distance iron Man. It's
Speaker 1: mile eighteen. Imagine, I've been up for ten hours racing
Speaker 1: and I don't want to finish these last six miles,
Speaker 1: But those six miles will change the rest of my
Speaker 1: life because it's the most uncomfortable thing to do when
Speaker 1: you've been running, biking, swimming for ten hours and you
Speaker 1: have to go for another two hours to finish, Like,
Speaker 1: what am I doing here? What am I? And that's
Speaker 1: when you train the mind to tell you who's in charge,
Speaker 1: because the mind takes over and thinks that it's in charge,
Speaker 1: but it's not. You are. Your consciousness is what decide
Speaker 1: you're gonna do tomorrow. You're gonna jump at that ice bath,
Speaker 1: You're gonna change your job, You're gonna leave that bad relationship.
Speaker 1: Are you gonna progress your life forward? Because you have
Speaker 1: one chance at this? Yeah? Yeah, So that the big
Speaker 1: takeaway is that you have to do things that make
Speaker 1: you uncomfortable. You have to seek discomfort, You have to
Speaker 1: seek discomfort. And now we all seek comfort and we
Speaker 1: want comfort and like, hey, you live a pretty comfortable
Speaker 1: damn life, right, and so do I. But we do
Speaker 1: things to take us out of that comfort zone from
Speaker 1: time to time. So I ride my dirt bike for
Speaker 1: eight days across the Mexican desert and full of danger, right,
Speaker 1: Or I spend two days in the back country on
Speaker 1: a motorcycle on a snowmobile bike, right, um, danger avalanches
Speaker 1: or you could break down, you could die, right, And
Speaker 1: it's like those things to like make us be alive. Right.
Speaker 1: And also what it does, lets will transition this right.
Speaker 1: And also what it does is then in back to
Speaker 1: kind of making money forty times and all your job,
Speaker 1: it gives you the power to try and comfortable things
Speaker 1: in business. And so let's talk about that for a minute.
Speaker 1: So you previously had a social media company. We had
Speaker 1: an influencer marketing business and influencer marketing platform business. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so it was kind of built on technology and
Speaker 1: social media a little bit and marketing influencer and ended
Speaker 1: good with that. And then you had this idea to
Speaker 1: create this decentralized network, which is much harder because it's
Speaker 1: not essentially controlled thing now it's kind of depending on
Speaker 1: decentralized creators building that. That sounds pretty hard. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a very hard problem. It's a very difficult problem. But
Speaker 1: I think my thing when I thought about this was
Speaker 1: I kind of semi retired after I sold my last business.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I have enough money to
Speaker 1: like basically be fine for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to work anymore. But when I got like,
Speaker 1: I had this brain thing, and I talked about that
Speaker 1: in some other podcasts, and I was like, I got
Speaker 1: to try a really hard problem, Like I want to
Speaker 1: solve something very difficult. So I went and found one
Speaker 1: of the hardest things I could solve, because there's already
Speaker 1: some guy trying to go to Mars. Someone else is
Speaker 1: building electric cars, Like, let me try to solve this problem.
Speaker 1: Speaking about that off topic, but Elon Musk has had
Speaker 1: like four or five billion dollar companies in the last
Speaker 1: five I think pomp just said this in every five years.
Speaker 1: For the past twenty years, he's built a billion dollar business.
Speaker 1: No one's ever done that before, right, Like from PayPal
Speaker 1: to Tesla, to SpaceX, to the boring company solar City.
Speaker 1: I mean, he acquired solar City. But like those are
Speaker 1: the four that's gangster. The dude is gangster. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the decentralized network. So of
Speaker 1: course I talk about the decentralized revolution eation every week
Speaker 1: and how the world is breaking apart, how we've gone
Speaker 1: to the centralized world, a centralized world being a one
Speaker 1: of global cooperation and global governance, but also all of
Speaker 1: our institutions have become centralized. And so as someone who's
Speaker 1: been on the Internet since the early days, it started
Speaker 1: very decentralized, but then it became very centralize where everything
Speaker 1: basically got controlled by Google and Facebook, etc. And now
Speaker 1: we've seen the problems that come from that, right, so
Speaker 1: now we've seen them misuse our data and censor us
Speaker 1: and all those types of things. And I talk about
Speaker 1: the decentralized revolution, how the world is breaking apart. So
Speaker 1: no more global homogeny, no more global US dollar reserve system,
Speaker 1: but even our infrastructure we use, our messaging platforms and
Speaker 1: stuff is starting to get decentralized. I mean, is that
Speaker 1: sort of the revolution that you see within that space?
Speaker 1: Absolutely and I think we need to think about decentralization
Speaker 1: in three aspects. First is how do you decentralize your
Speaker 1: authorization or identity online? The next thing is how do
Speaker 1: you think about decent decentralizing how messages are pushed out
Speaker 1: to many people? And the final pieces, how do you
Speaker 1: decentralize the money. Because these are the three elements that
Speaker 1: are required to truly build a network. You can't just
Speaker 1: have one of the pieces. You You can't just have
Speaker 1: decentralized identity without decentralized payments. You also can't have decentralized
Speaker 1: messaging without an identity on top of that service. And
Speaker 1: then you can't have data storage. So you have to
Speaker 1: think about these problems I think in three prongs. Okay,
Speaker 1: now those are not the problems, those are the solutions
Speaker 1: to problems. I want to find out why should anybody care? So, like,
Speaker 1: we have good messaging apps or payment apps, all those
Speaker 1: things that you said, and we have those. Those are
Speaker 1: centralized solutions. So we obviously have Facebook, and we obviously
Speaker 1: have Twitter, and we obviously have cash app et cetera.
Speaker 1: So I want to I want to talk more about
Speaker 1: the inherent problems with those and then how decentralized apps
Speaker 1: like Zion, like blue Sky could help solve that. So
Speaker 1: I want to come back to that in a second.
Speaker 1: If you're just tune in, you're listening to the Mark
Speaker 1: Moss Show. I'm sitting down with Justin Risvani. We are
Speaker 1: live in Wyoming, Jackson, Hawyoming at the Bitcoin ski Week conference.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna come back. We're gonna talk about, like
Speaker 1: I said, the problems from these centralized networks and how
Speaker 1: there are solutions to those. We'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 1: Don't go away, We're gonna be right back in a second.
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back. If you just tune in, you
Speaker 1: are listening to the Mark Moss Show talking about the
Speaker 1: decentralized revolution. Like each and every week, I'm sitting down
Speaker 1: with Justin Rosvani. We are coming to you from Jackson Whole, Wyoming,
Speaker 1: in between some powder runs and some meetings and things
Speaker 1: like that. It's been an amazing week. But we're talking
Speaker 1: about decentralized networks, and so you were talking about the problems.
Speaker 1: What you're talking about the problems and solving the problem. Sure,
Speaker 1: so let's talk about the actual problems we're trying to solve.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned messaging, you mentioned payments, and you mentioned ID. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which one should we start with? Ident I think identity
Speaker 1: is a good one to start because imagine we have
Speaker 1: one point five billion people in the world that use
Speaker 1: a centralized Gmail account to log into everything on the internet.
Speaker 1: It probably use it to log into their bank account.
Speaker 1: Is the user name of their bank accounts probably a
Speaker 1: Gmail address. They called that like an sso I think, right,
Speaker 1: single single sign on, So you can log into most
Speaker 1: a lot of websites with either a Google or Facebook ID. Right.
Speaker 1: But but I think the inherent problem with that is
Speaker 1: like Google owns that ID, not you, and they everything
Speaker 1: revolving around how the ID is managed is done in
Speaker 1: a centralized way by Google, which means that everything you
Speaker 1: log into with that address, they own the data too.
Speaker 1: They know the websites, they know how it was authorized,
Speaker 1: they know where it is. And this is the inherent
Speaker 1: power of the data that Google has. So I believe
Speaker 1: that there's an opportunity to actually decentralize the identity and
Speaker 1: like own it for the first time on the web.
Speaker 1: But let's before we talk about the solution to that problem.
Speaker 1: The problem is then if Google, if I say something
Speaker 1: mean online, they don't, like they could shut off my
Speaker 1: account and then all those websites that I had access
Speaker 1: to with my Google Google account has now gone Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like like, what was really interesting I think yesterday was
Speaker 1: Slack ban libs of TikTok's Slack account. Wow, they're like
Speaker 1: they're like Seth Seth, the founder of the Babylon Be
Speaker 1: tweeted this out. It's like, well, so this this messaging
Speaker 1: service can ban companies from using their technology. I get
Speaker 1: that it's fine, but that's like where we're at now, right,
Speaker 1: Like a Twitter account that basically just share stuff, like
Speaker 1: they don't produce any content, they just reshare stuff is
Speaker 1: banned from Slack. So the thing that they were using
Speaker 1: to conduct to conduct business, they're now banned off of. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's the that's the inherent problem with centralized networks.
Speaker 1: The one thing I'd like to keep in mind is
Speaker 1: that while some of what you see is like extreme cases,
Speaker 1: at some point it may not be so extreme. The
Speaker 1: world is more polarized than ever before. So like, no
Speaker 1: matter which side of an argument you're on, there's someone
Speaker 1: on the other side. Absolutely your pro life, someone's pro choice.
Speaker 1: You're a Republican someone's democrat, you're like liberal, someone's conservative,
Speaker 1: Like someone's always gonna be on the side. And so
Speaker 1: a lot of times you have to think about like,
Speaker 1: even though you may think, oh that's good, I'm glad
Speaker 1: they shut down, there's a tiptok well they're probably coming
Speaker 1: for you next. Yeah, right, and that's the problem. Okay,
Speaker 1: So so then the ID and then so if someone
Speaker 1: could shut my ID off, they can deperson me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: basically you can no longer log into all those services
Speaker 1: that you were trying to log into, because what happens
Speaker 1: when you hit that forgot password button? Where does it go?
Speaker 1: Your email? Where's who? O's that email? They do exactly
Speaker 1: all of these roads, interestingly, lead to this one service
Speaker 1: for one point five billion people around the world. And
Speaker 1: then let's talk about the payments piece. So then the
Speaker 1: payments piece is, well, we can move money around. I
Speaker 1: can send you money, you know you can. You can
Speaker 1: have a credit card processing account because my credit card,
Speaker 1: or I could use a PayPal But now we see
Speaker 1: like PayPal is taking twenty five hundred dollars out of
Speaker 1: people's accounts if they say something mean online. Yeah, they've
Speaker 1: worked with the Anti Defamation League to create a blacklist
Speaker 1: of all these accounts that should be banned for making payments. So, um,
Speaker 1: if you know, if only fans I believe had their
Speaker 1: credit card account turned off or something like that. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's like, um, back to the same censorship problem.
Speaker 1: If I'm doing something they whoever they are, don't like,
Speaker 1: they take away my ability to transact sure and the
Speaker 1: ability to move value across the web. And remember some
Speaker 1: of these companies, like you mentioned only fans the payment
Speaker 1: from the creator or the fan to the creator. Even
Speaker 1: on a Patreon for example, there's like six companies knees
Speaker 1: in between that transaction because there's like the credit card company,
Speaker 1: the credit card processor different than the credit card by
Speaker 1: the way, the website that hosts each of those companies,
Speaker 1: because the processor needs a server to run on. Then
Speaker 1: the credit card, and then the bank. The bank, like
Speaker 1: all of these things are arbiters and kind of centralized
Speaker 1: authorities that take a little piece along the way. They
Speaker 1: all take a fee, and they all could censor you
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of one decides that we don't only
Speaker 1: want to do this is and I don't think people
Speaker 1: will realize how centralized the money system really is. Like
Speaker 1: we run on visa rails or MasterCard rails or swift rails, like,
Speaker 1: we use all these systems, and they're highly complex and
Speaker 1: highly centralized. And the point that I always like to make,
Speaker 1: and you've probably heard me say it a bunch of times,
Speaker 1: is that without the freedom to transact, there is no freedom.
Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah. So even though in America we're guaranteed
Speaker 1: freedoms through the Constitution, like freedom of assembly, your freedom
Speaker 1: of speech, if I can't put gas in my truck
Speaker 1: to drive to the assembly, I can't assemble, right, Um,
Speaker 1: If I can't, if I can't pay for a computer
Speaker 1: or phone to go on social media, I have no speech.
Speaker 1: And so it all freedoms come from the ability to transact,
Speaker 1: and so that that's like the most important one. And
Speaker 1: then so you said I d you said, uh, payments,
Speaker 1: and then you said messaging, messaging and data storage. I
Speaker 1: would I would put them together because it's effectively how
Speaker 1: is this message moved across devices on the web and
Speaker 1: then more particularly, where is it stored when that happens? Okay,
Speaker 1: So then messaging, So again back to you know, accounts
Speaker 1: being banned on Twitter, right, Facebook shutting down accounts when
Speaker 1: when Um, there's two topics that I can't talk about
Speaker 1: on YouTube that I just try and stay super clear
Speaker 1: away from. And one was the elections, and the second
Speaker 1: was the pandemic and the medicine and all that which
Speaker 1: I can't even use that real word um, And so
Speaker 1: I wouldn't stay say those things. When when they first
Speaker 1: started cracking down on the whole election thing, eight thousand
Speaker 1: accounts on YouTube were shut down within a week. So
Speaker 1: that's the messaging. So again, when you don't own your messaging,
Speaker 1: you're on somebody else's platform, then they have the ability
Speaker 1: to censor what you say. And these are we have
Speaker 1: to remember that all of these systems are just waled gardens,
Speaker 1: right like Twitter is a waled garden, Facebook is a
Speaker 1: walled garden. YouTube and Google are all the war garden.
Speaker 1: They're all separately, and they can all separately decide do
Speaker 1: the messages are they even allowed to be sent within
Speaker 1: their own private networks? Even in the dms. Everything I've
Speaker 1: had dms get rejected where I can't send a link
Speaker 1: or I can't send whatever even in a DM. I mean,
Speaker 1: something that's interesting to me is like we've gone to
Speaker 1: a place where hundreds of millions, Like there's a guy,
Speaker 1: the guy we just talked about, can basically go look
Speaker 1: at every DM we've ever sent to somebody else, and that,
Speaker 1: to me, that's gangster. That's crazy. Like he can look
Speaker 1: at him bad for potentially good for him, bad for
Speaker 1: everybody else. And everyone says, oh no, you can read everything.
Speaker 1: This is not nothing's encrypted and their data. Like I
Speaker 1: think what people forget about these systems is like the
Speaker 1: language of my Instagram, my Twitter, my Facebook, my YouTube,
Speaker 1: it's actually not your anything. It's your log in that
Speaker 1: they can do whatever they want with and you pray
Speaker 1: that they get your stuff out. Yeah, and even when
Speaker 1: you're using privacy apps like Signal or Telegram, it's still
Speaker 1: going through their server, which whatever they good guy double
Speaker 1: pinky swear promise not to do anything with it, but
Speaker 1: it's they're going through their server. Okay, so let's talk
Speaker 1: about So those are the problems. Now, I'll let you
Speaker 1: kind of think about how those problems could maybe apply
Speaker 1: to your life at some point. Remember, I think adversarial, like,
Speaker 1: there's always gonna be some on of the other side
Speaker 1: of equations. So let's talk about some of the solutions
Speaker 1: to those problems. So should we start back at the top,
Speaker 1: which is I D sure? I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: one of the potential things that we're working on is
Speaker 1: this concept of a D I D right. So it's
Speaker 1: a decentralized identifier that you own through this set of
Speaker 1: a private key. Like for example, if you go to
Speaker 1: a Zion dot fyi and you create an account on Zion,
Speaker 1: which you should do, which you should do. We're not
Speaker 1: creating an account on a database for you. What we're
Speaker 1: doing is we're assigning you twelve words. This is your
Speaker 1: private key, encrypted by these twelve words, and then we
Speaker 1: assign you a DID A did. Is this decentralized identifier
Speaker 1: that you own? Then we take that ID. Why is
Speaker 1: it decentralized because it's not sitting on a server that's
Speaker 1: owned by Zion. It's actually held on the bitcoin block chain.
Speaker 1: So it's not holding like Facebook server or Twitter servers. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: It's held on the Bitcoin block change and nobody controls
Speaker 1: or has access or exactly. So now now the Registar,
Speaker 1: the database that holds the identity, is the most secure
Speaker 1: immutable thing ever created. And now if we have this
Speaker 1: interoperable ID, that's where we see the big opportunities, This
Speaker 1: interoperable idea that can long into many applications because it's
Speaker 1: not another world garden. Yeah, this is exciting. This is
Speaker 1: where we get into really exciting stuff thinking about the
Speaker 1: future because we have a new set of building blocks
Speaker 1: to build new things. We're gonna talk more about that
Speaker 1: in a minute. If you're just tune in, you're listening
Speaker 1: to the Mark Moss Show talking with Justin Risvoni, the
Speaker 1: founder of Zion dot fyi. You should check it out.
Speaker 1: We're gonna come back in a minute and talk to
Speaker 1: you more about these decentralized networks, a couple of them
Speaker 1: out there, how you can use them. So don't go away,
Speaker 1: we'll be right back with more. All right, welcome back.
Speaker 1: If you're just tune in, you are listening to the
Speaker 1: Mark Moss Show, and I'm sitting down with Justin Risvoni,
Speaker 1: the founder of Zion. You can check them out at
Speaker 1: Zion dot fyi. And we're coming to you from Jackson Whole,
Speaker 1: Wyoming beautiful Jackson Hole and taking just a long enough
Speaker 1: break to take a break from the snow to come
Speaker 1: talk to you for a second. But we're talking about
Speaker 1: we've we've been framing up some of the problems and
Speaker 1: we're talking about some of the solutions. If you've missed
Speaker 1: any of this, check it out on the podcast just
Speaker 1: search the Mark Moss Show in any of your favorite
Speaker 1: podcast players, or on the Market Disruptors YouTube channel. Now
Speaker 1: back to so the d ID. It allows me to
Speaker 1: control my ID. So instead of signing in with Google
Speaker 1: or Facebook where they could shut me off, now I
Speaker 1: control it and nobody can shut it down. And most importantly,
Speaker 1: you can log into many things because of this, Once
Speaker 1: applications realize like I don't have to build my own
Speaker 1: authorization server and I can use this open one, it
Speaker 1: actually makes it easier for developers to now use this
Speaker 1: inherent an ID. You have one log into many applications. Right,
Speaker 1: That's the beauty of this idea of decentralized identification, and
Speaker 1: just not I don't want to spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time here, but just to think about the future implications
Speaker 1: of this. Talking with Daniel, one of one of the
Speaker 1: developers of this, you know, he was talking about I think, like,
Speaker 1: you know, he gave me the analogy of like if
Speaker 1: I had to change my mailing address and I have
Speaker 1: to notify however, many hundreds of people, and like still
Speaker 1: mail goes to the wrong place. But imagine if every
Speaker 1: time someone to send me something a Christmas card or
Speaker 1: a package, they would just ping my did and it
Speaker 1: would tell them where to send it exactly. That's that's
Speaker 1: why this interoperable identifier that's on the web is really exciting.
Speaker 1: And by the way, this is not something we've made
Speaker 1: up a few months ago. There's a there's a there's
Speaker 1: a group called the W three C, the Worldwide Consortium.
Speaker 1: This is this is who sets all the standards for
Speaker 1: the Internet. That's what made the Internet. Basically. They added
Speaker 1: in July that the new way to identify a user
Speaker 1: on the Internet is through a d I D. So
Speaker 1: this is not something that like Zion has made up
Speaker 1: or it's it's actually now become this interoperable standard for
Speaker 1: the web as important as email. And I think this
Speaker 1: is going to be something really really big that we're
Speaker 1: going to see in the next couple of years that
Speaker 1: everyone is using. Yeah, I think it's amazing. I think,
Speaker 1: like I said, the way that I think about technology
Speaker 1: and try to extrapolate where it goes in the future
Speaker 1: is that we have a new set of building blocks.
Speaker 1: So if I handed you a deck of cards, you
Speaker 1: could build me like a TP or like a little
Speaker 1: house of cards. Right if I gave you a set
Speaker 1: of legos, you build something different. So like steel was
Speaker 1: one of the technological revolutions. It was the third technological revolution,
Speaker 1: and it allowed us to build all our buildings and bridges.
Speaker 1: That was cool. We didn't know that we'd have space
Speaker 1: shuttles one day. But with that new set of building blocks,
Speaker 1: we were able to build new things. And the Bitcoin,
Speaker 1: the bitcoin blockchain, like the first killer application, is obviously money,
Speaker 1: but it's given us a new set of building blocks
Speaker 1: that allows us to build new things that we don't know.
Speaker 1: And one is like a decentralized ID for example. Of course,
Speaker 1: now let's talk about some of these decentralized networks. So
Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey, the founder of Twitter, he left Twitter and
Speaker 1: he said that he wants to focus the rest of
Speaker 1: his life on bitcoin. He's launched a new version, a
Speaker 1: decentralized version of Twitter, which he started working on when
Speaker 1: he was still at Twitter, and it's called Blue Sky.
Speaker 1: It's in beta. I don't have access to it right now.
Speaker 1: It's like a new version of Twitter. But there's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of social media is a very generic term,
Speaker 1: and so there's different types of social media network. So Twitter,
Speaker 1: for example, I can make a post, people can comment
Speaker 1: on it. Facebook, you know, has more like the same
Speaker 1: but also as like groups. YouTube obviously is just kind
Speaker 1: of videos, right, So there's different types. So you have
Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey's this new Blue Sky, you have Nostre, which
Speaker 1: is now kind of like this decentralized Twitter almost as well.
Speaker 1: And then Zion is in sort of like a different
Speaker 1: category where it's more about like communities, where like I'm
Speaker 1: building the Mark Moss community by the way, so check
Speaker 1: it out. Download Zion dot fi and I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: building my community there. But I can actually have a
Speaker 1: community similar to like Facebook groups or something, and Telegram, yes,
Speaker 1: and Telegram, so sort of like a Telegram where I
Speaker 1: could create a group and then we could join it
Speaker 1: everyone could talk within this. Sure, sure like building a community.
Speaker 1: And what's cool about that is you own that relationship
Speaker 1: through that idea that we talked about earlier. Yeah, or
Speaker 1: the way that I like to look at it is
Speaker 1: actually like a decentralized only fans. Yeah, so like only
Speaker 1: fans obviously, I'm sure your first thought of that is
Speaker 1: like porn or something, right, But really it was a
Speaker 1: way for creators to create content directly for their community
Speaker 1: and get paid for it. So I can have a group,
Speaker 1: a Facebook group, a community there, but I have no
Speaker 1: way to really get paid. The people in my community
Speaker 1: have no way to pay me. So Only Fans was
Speaker 1: kind of this way where I could create my own
Speaker 1: sort of like a Patreon. I can create a community
Speaker 1: and if people like what I provide, they can pay
Speaker 1: me sure, And so only Fans is actually pretty cool,
Speaker 1: but the problem has been kind of taken over by porn, which,
Speaker 1: interesting enough, porn is the first use case of all
Speaker 1: new technology. So when the VCR first came out, it
Speaker 1: was only being used for porn. And the first thing
Speaker 1: that made the vcrgo mainstream was Disney finally made a
Speaker 1: movie on it. But Disney didn't want to do it
Speaker 1: because it was known as porne, so Disney was afraid,
Speaker 1: but they finally did and it made a mainstream and
Speaker 1: what was the first use case of internet porn as well.
Speaker 1: But it sort of has this stigma, But now you
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to kind of give like these creators
Speaker 1: a place to go to have sort of that same
Speaker 1: kind of flexibility and get paid directly for their value ultimately.
Speaker 1: And I think the thing about Only Fans is because
Speaker 1: of their legacy way they use payments, they take twenty
Speaker 1: percent of the transaction and Zion takes zero. Like to
Speaker 1: give you context, if you're a creator that's earning one
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a month on Only Fans and you
Speaker 1: move your audience over to Zion, you keep twenty percent
Speaker 1: of that revenue directly. And the reason we can do that,
Speaker 1: and this is a twenty percent is a lot of money.
Speaker 1: The reason we can do that is because we're optimizing
Speaker 1: an advanced payment rail system that's beyond a credit card,
Speaker 1: beyond using bitcoin effectively. Yeah, so I think it's amazing
Speaker 1: for that. Like I said, that's why I want to
Speaker 1: be moving over there. The one thing I think about
Speaker 1: as a content creator is, um, you know, I'm creating
Speaker 1: content on YouTube and I'm creating content on Instagram or whatever.
Speaker 1: But at any given time they want, they could just
Speaker 1: shut me down, and like that's my life. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: that's my career, right, Like that's where I drive all
Speaker 1: my revenue from, right, and like if they shut that down,
Speaker 1: like they shut me off with a light switch, and
Speaker 1: that affects my family. That affects my kids, and that's
Speaker 1: a big deal for me, So like I need to
Speaker 1: be I can't like have my whole life in the
Speaker 1: hands of some low level administrator at some company that
Speaker 1: I don't even know, that makes arbitrary rules based off
Speaker 1: of who knows what. In any given time, with a
Speaker 1: flick of a switch, they could shut me off and
Speaker 1: I have no recourse, no appeal process, no legal and
Speaker 1: they could literally shut me off and ruin my kids lives.
Speaker 1: The amount of power and control has been given to
Speaker 1: these centralized institutions is just incredible when you start to
Speaker 1: think about it. Yeah, and because they don't just own
Speaker 1: the relationship, they own the distribution, They own where the
Speaker 1: content goes because you're going through their portal. And I
Speaker 1: think the vision of where we think a decentralized Internet
Speaker 1: should go is Zion is building the tools to say,
Speaker 1: imagine Instagram, but you can take all your followers with you.
Speaker 1: That's I think the biggest breakthrough of all this technology
Speaker 1: is that now the way you reference an individual isn't
Speaker 1: through essential system. Is you can have this breakthrough and
Speaker 1: take all your fans with you. To the next one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's a big breakthrough. Like yeah, and then
Speaker 1: I love the fact so back kind of this only
Speaker 1: fan example, a clean version of only fans. Yeah, of course,
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, the ability to pay directly
Speaker 1: and so, and then not only does it do messaging,
Speaker 1: not only that I got to control my identifier, but
Speaker 1: we can actually send communication. And when we consider money
Speaker 1: as communication, payment as a communication community communicating value, so
Speaker 1: we can exchange messages and communication seamlessly. Yeah. And also
Speaker 1: at the hardest money ever created. I mean last night
Speaker 1: with James, you saw how fast those transactions move like
Speaker 1: it's it's it's when you see it, you're like holy,
Speaker 1: Like when you see these two applications that have no
Speaker 1: relationship with each other, that can fund each other. Like
Speaker 1: last night, we funded James's wallet with cash app on
Speaker 1: my cash app. Cash app is not an app that
Speaker 1: Zion has a partnership with. We have no relationship, there's
Speaker 1: no API, and within half a second the moment I
Speaker 1: hit the button, it imediately funded the Lightning wallet on
Speaker 1: the Zion side. I think that's the incredible nature of
Speaker 1: how this money moves peer to peer at the speed
Speaker 1: of light. Yeah, only fans requires a thirty days settlement process.
Speaker 1: We were we require thirty milliseconds. Wow, it's really hard
Speaker 1: to think about where this goes, but I'm super bullish
Speaker 1: on it because, as I said, without the freedom to transact,
Speaker 1: there is no freedom. So first, private property rights. Second communication,
Speaker 1: we have to be able to communicate freely, openly, truthfully,
Speaker 1: both with our messaging as well as our money, and
Speaker 1: so decentralized networks is bringing that back. Zion dot Fyi
Speaker 1: check it out. Check out Jack Dorsey's new Blue Sky
Speaker 1: that's opening up is going to open up an amazing
Speaker 1: opportunity and change the world in my opinion. If you're
Speaker 1: just doing in you're listening to the Markmas Show. We've
Speaker 1: been talking about the decentralized revolution in studio with Justin
Speaker 1: Rezvani from Zion dot Fyi. Check them out. I'm building
Speaker 1: my community there, that's what I got. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for listening today. Shoot me a message, let me know
Speaker 1: if you've heard the show, ask me any questions you
Speaker 1: have until next time. Thank you, thank you,