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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to thirty three,

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Speaker 1: Episode five of The Day Guys Stay production of by

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. This Well. This is a podcast where we

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Speaker 1: take a deep dive into America's share consciousness. And it

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Speaker 1: is Friday April, which means that Earth Day. How's how

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Speaker 1: is Earth Day going? Are we winning the Earth? Don't?

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Speaker 1: You might not want to check the score line, to

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Speaker 1: check the bot score on Earth, although it does feel

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Speaker 1: like we're moving the goalpost back right now, like climate science,

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Speaker 1: just like I think we can. I think we can

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Speaker 1: manage two degrees change, like if we really get it

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Speaker 1: together now. But we gotta get it together now. Anybody

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Speaker 1: hearing that, No, but yes, take this moment to you know,

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Speaker 1: get in touch with the Earth and maybe consider the

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Speaker 1: massive work that is in front of us to maintain

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Speaker 1: life on this planet. I mean, I do my part.

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Speaker 1: I don't just throw my trash everywhere on Earth Day

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Speaker 1: in particular, and once in a while I will use

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Speaker 1: the paper straws that they give me in my dream. Hey,

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Speaker 1: invest there, you know there's good there's good, real compostable

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Speaker 1: bio biody radable stuff out there that's got the good

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Speaker 1: mouth feel, you know, you know, would would bamboo shots

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Speaker 1: I had. I used a bamboo straw the other day.

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I'm this isn't this isn't bad

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Speaker 1: at Speaking of straws, my name is Jack O'Brien, a

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Speaker 1: K straw Sucking Fangs Forever Courty courtesy of Ruthie Fudge.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Ruthie and Yeah, the a lot of

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Speaker 1: people out there who thought that vampire fangs were hollow

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Speaker 1: and sucks blood through them. So we were not alone

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Speaker 1: in that misconception, and in fact, maybe a lot of

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Speaker 1: the culture that led us that way was created by

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Speaker 1: people who believed that as well. Anyways, I'm thrilled to

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Speaker 1: be joined as always by my co host Mr Miles

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Speaker 1: Miles Gray call me Jack co host, and Sophie is too.

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Speaker 1: I'm Miles of Gray, Miles of Gray. He says, I

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Speaker 1: know what I want. I want in now, some cold

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Speaker 1: brew because I'm Miles of Gray. Christie, I'm a Ducci

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Speaker 1: mane at Wapple House. For that. Mr Vane inspired a

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Speaker 1: K what a track? A classic? Yeah? That was great, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a great Yeahmagucci main classic. Well, Miles, We're thrilled to

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Speaker 1: be joined by a reporter and the author of the

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Speaker 1: new book Nazi Billionaires, The Dark History of Germany's Wealthiest

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Speaker 1: Dynasty's it is David Dion, Good morning, good afternoon. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you? Oh man? Doing well? Yeah? How is new York?

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Speaker 1: You're in New York? Yeah? Yeah, what's what's good in

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Speaker 1: New York? Things are good. It's still chilly out, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think there's two weeks of spring are about to hit, right,

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Speaker 1: So what I'm hoping for before summer starts? What are

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Speaker 1: you basing that on? Any meteor a meteorological evidence or

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Speaker 1: just the ground? Hug? Are we at that point in

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Speaker 1: the ground? Hug? Because purely this is pure ground feb Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: How are you? Are you? Where are you in your

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Speaker 1: like kind of book tour, book publicity? My understanding is

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Speaker 1: those are exhausting. I am. I just started. I gave

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Speaker 1: my first book last night. The book came out on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: so it's been it's been four days of man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I've been listening in reading some of your other

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Speaker 1: interviews and stuff, and have you have you get to

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Speaker 1: get any media opportunities from German media yet yet? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I'm keeping my favorite. I mean, the German translation is

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Speaker 1: going to get published on May five, and the German

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Speaker 1: book tour starts mid May or May twenties to be exact.

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Speaker 1: So you know Germans, I guess that's also But the

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Speaker 1: overall point of my book, Germans are a little bit

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Speaker 1: slow some or at least some Germans are a little

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Speaker 1: bit slow in the pick up, Yeah, a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Pretty so much stuff happening here? Ye? Absolutely? All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: we are going to get to know you a little

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Speaker 1: bit better in a moment. First, we're gonna tell our

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Speaker 1: listeners a couple of things we're talking about. We are

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about your book. Some of the revelations in

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Speaker 1: the book are like the type of things I say

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Speaker 1: this about stories every once in a while, but like

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Speaker 1: when I read your book, I'm like, wait, why is

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Speaker 1: this not the only thing we're talking about all the time? Ever,

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Speaker 1: it's just fucking wild. So well, we'll get details, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, So we'll talk about that. We'll talk about Coachella.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna just how lit it is, like the dope

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Speaker 1: Instagram pictures we've all seen, and everybody that I fall

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Speaker 1: on Instagram has aged out think, which I think it's healthy,

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Speaker 1: but like there's nobody's going on Instagram or nobody's going

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Speaker 1: to coach he same here. Yeah, at least you're getting

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Speaker 1: out like billionaires going and the Property Brothers guy is

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Speaker 1: what is its selling Sunset? It's like, like we said,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's all these festivals end up shifting. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we'll talk about all that plenty Moore. But first, David,

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Speaker 1: we do like to ask our guests what is something

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Speaker 1: from your search history? So I had my book party

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday at Hanoia Gallery in New York, and I

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Speaker 1: googled the The centerpiece of the permanent collection of that

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Speaker 1: museum is the painting by Gustav Klimt of Adele bloch

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Speaker 1: Bauer One. It was immortalized in his movie called The

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Speaker 1: Woman in Gold, which Helen Marron plays Maria Altman the Arrows,

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Speaker 1: who was trying to get the painting. It iss stolen

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Speaker 1: from a family Your nazis back. She lives in Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles and the lawyer is played by I always forget

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Speaker 1: his name, but he is married to Blake Lively Reynolds. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Reynolds exactly. Lawyer Ryan Reynolds, Blake liveliest husband whatever

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Speaker 1: his name is in his probably like one of the

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Speaker 1: last roles where he was like, I don't know, Like

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Speaker 1: I don't always have to be like the quippy, funny

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Speaker 1: like Deadpool guy. Sometimes I can be a just a

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Speaker 1: lawyer who's trying to write a historic rong exactly. And

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know more about that history. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I saw the movie, but I wanted to know more

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Speaker 1: about the history. So that's the before I had the party.

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Speaker 1: So that's the last my my Google searches nice and

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Speaker 1: what what do you find out? So they I'm assuming,

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Speaker 1: based on the fact that it was a Hollywood movie

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Speaker 1: and that you had your book launch at a museum

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Speaker 1: that features the painting, that the historic injustice was eventually right.

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Speaker 1: It was indeed by the U. S. Supreme Court, who

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Speaker 1: ruled that they that the Austrian government had to return

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Speaker 1: the stolen painting or the deloted collection of paintings back

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Speaker 1: to Maria Altman in Los Angeles. Ronald Lawler, the famous

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Speaker 1: a billionaire in New York, ends up buying the painting

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Speaker 1: for a hundred twenty million from Maria Altman and the

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Speaker 1: other painting. Gustav Clint only ever through two paintings of

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Speaker 1: Adele Bloch Bauer was his muse and patron and the

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Speaker 1: other one was brought by Oprah Winfrey. I found out,

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Speaker 1: so that and was later sold on to a Chinese billionaire.

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Speaker 1: So it's yet again it's it's billionaires galore, and we're

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Speaker 1: just living a world where you know, we're all serving civillionaires.

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh, yeah, it's just a good asset to

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Speaker 1: park my money in. Yeah, and just they have it

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Speaker 1: like a airport, like hangar somewhere or well do it

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Speaker 1: like that's that's always interesting. Won a billionaire buys a

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Speaker 1: great work of art, Like, is there anything to indicate

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Speaker 1: that we've even like we're able to even see the

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Speaker 1: best works of art, or a billionaire doesn't just like

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Speaker 1: own like some of the best work. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: there's so many, so many artworks are indeed in these

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Speaker 1: texts free hangars all across the world, you know, in Switzerland,

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Speaker 1: in Singapore, So you're right, you know, we've only seen

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Speaker 1: a sliver of what's out there in museums. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Ronald Lauder donated it to his own museum, to Noia Gallery,

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Speaker 1: New York, where it's the centerpiece of depermanent collection alongside

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Speaker 1: other magnificent works. Yeah, my favorite art is always at

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Speaker 1: the Sackler Museum because I can just feel good about

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Speaker 1: their you know, their background. I haven't done a ton

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Speaker 1: of research, but I feel like they're on the up

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Speaker 1: and up and they're in all the cool gallery. I

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Speaker 1: wonder what where they got their money? Uhart, that's all

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Speaker 1: that matters increasingly less increasingly, right, yeah, exactly. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: once people begin having reckonings with like what's that name? Represented?

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Speaker 1: No, no no, no, nope, nope no, bring that down Empire

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Speaker 1: fan of course the book. Yeah, what is something you

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Speaker 1: think is overrated? I think Manchester United is the most

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Speaker 1: overrated soccer team. They like that of to day it

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Speaker 1: was announced that they that Manchester United, which is many

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Speaker 1: fans stayed side as well. But except for in the

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Speaker 1: city of Manchester, where everybody support native man Mancunians support

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Speaker 1: Manchester City effect, it's very little, you know, very little

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Speaker 1: known Manchester United. And I was yesterday they poached the

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Speaker 1: coach of my of my soccer team, Ajax Amsterdam, and

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Speaker 1: I think, you know Manchester United as even under Ferguson,

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Speaker 1: they've never under Sir Sir Alec Ferguson, they've never are

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Speaker 1: played soccer in an attractive way there's never been like

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Speaker 1: a team Manchester United team which played like attractive soccer ever,

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Speaker 1: so I think they're like the most overrated thing. And

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Speaker 1: I'm just out there, not personal at all yet feeling

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Speaker 1: that the coaching of Eric has nothing to do really unrelated.

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Speaker 1: I've been saying it's for for for years. But now

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Speaker 1: I have a news angle that that that that you

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Speaker 1: know affects me personally as an eye ex friend, that

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Speaker 1: I can finally say this record. Yeah, yeah, no, Jack,

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Speaker 1: I know you've you're obviously following everything that's been happening

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Speaker 1: since I'm mad I'm over here. That's interesting, like just

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Speaker 1: you know, only having context of following it through Miles.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that Manchester United was like not even

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Speaker 1: Manchester's team. That's yeah, that's always sucks. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: like one of the best marketed English clubs out there,

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, one of the biggest, probably the

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Speaker 1: biggest name in English soccer still. I mean, although Liverpool

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Speaker 1: is you know, basically leveling up on the number of

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Speaker 1: championships Livapool shoutout Virgil van Dyke over there, straw sucking

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Speaker 1: fans forever, but you know, it was the smashing by

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Speaker 1: Liverpool that sort of catalyzed all of this, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, we gotta we gotta start really figuring this

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Speaker 1: out because they're they're completely out of sorts and they're

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Speaker 1: doing they did this thing where we see a lot

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Speaker 1: of even like in the NBA, happens where clubs or

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Speaker 1: teams are just going for really big name signings without

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Speaker 1: much consideration for the long like the longevity of the

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Speaker 1: franchise or how it affects the youth development, and you

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Speaker 1: keep paying exorbitant fees. They've they've spent something like one

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Speaker 1: billion dollars since and now we're they're looking at a

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Speaker 1: rebuild of at least having to replace like three fourths

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Speaker 1: of their entire squad. Yeah, I was trying to immediately

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Speaker 1: trying to think of the NBA corollaria, and I guess

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that I'm rooting for them and and

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Speaker 1: more devastated when they lose them when the six Ors

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Speaker 1: my team loses in this first round, I feel like

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Speaker 1: the Nets might be the closest thing in that they're

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Speaker 1: like not New York's team, but they have like all

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Speaker 1: this talent and like a lot of people are interested

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Speaker 1: in them around the country. Yeah, but but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to be working out thus far. Yeah, and like

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Speaker 1: I think to what they were just saying, they're there,

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Speaker 1: they win, you know, like that's the thing they would win.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily like, oh, you know the way they

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Speaker 1: play attractive, free flowing football with a lot of like

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Speaker 1: triangles or things like that. They usually just were able

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Speaker 1: to throrolex Ferguson was just able to put together a

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Speaker 1: bunch of winners and they just won games. M But

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Speaker 1: that one season when they had Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez,

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Speaker 1: I think was pretty obscene to look at front. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't agree more something. Uh, what's something you think

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Speaker 1: is underrated? I mean, the state of meg it's terribly underrated.

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Speaker 1: All right, Okay, go on, I've been there. I've been

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Speaker 1: finally after many decades. My favorite writer of all time. Well,

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Speaker 1: I also think it's terribly underrated. Stephen king Is is

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Speaker 1: from Maine, and I recently got to do a little

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Speaker 1: literary pilgrimage up to Maine, drove up to Portland and

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Speaker 1: Bangor and all these beautiful seaside towns and went to

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Speaker 1: a wilderness. I just I loved it. Yeah, what is

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Speaker 1: it what what about your perception prior to it, and

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Speaker 1: then experiencing what sort of what was the sort of

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Speaker 1: shift that you had, and sort of saying, you know what,

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Speaker 1: this place is actually a bit of all right. I

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Speaker 1: just found it so beautiful, just pure, like an incredible wilderness.

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Speaker 1: The nature is just stunning. The people are incredibly friendly.

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Speaker 1: The lobster rolls stays so good. It's just I found

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Speaker 1: it to be idyllic and tranquil. I loved it. And

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Speaker 1: nobody ever talks about Maine except for the one there

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Speaker 1: one Center and John Hodgeman. Yeah, those John Hodgeman, Susan Collins,

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Speaker 1: Stephen King, and I guess you get there. You know,

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Speaker 1: their governors always talked about here and there. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: all the Page I think is his name. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I used to go when I played at hockey pretty competitively.

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Speaker 1: I had gone to Bangor in Portland before to play hockey,

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Speaker 1: but that was many years ago, and I remember as

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Speaker 1: a kid, just like for the first time ever seeing

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Speaker 1: New England, I was like, wow, this is so different

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Speaker 1: than anything I know growing up in Los Angeles. But

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Speaker 1: I haven't been since in my adulthood. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: feel like maybe it's time to check it out again. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's first of all huge, which I guess a

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Speaker 1: lot of America is huge, but it's a you just

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Speaker 1: I I drove there from Boston one time back when

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Speaker 1: I lived in Boston, and you know, you hit Maine

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Speaker 1: like two hours in and then it's like five more

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Speaker 1: hours to get like halfway up the state of Maine.

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Speaker 1: But it's truly beautiful. There's amount there Mount Todden that's

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Speaker 1: like a great a lot of fun to climb and

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Speaker 1: just beautiful and like whitewater rapids all over the place.

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Speaker 1: What I'm interested in, you are Stephen King literary appreciation.

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Speaker 1: What what is the like I I've I've heard this

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Speaker 1: argument before that like Stephen King centuries from now will

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Speaker 1: still be seen as like one of the great American writers.

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Speaker 1: Like what is a book that you think is like

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Speaker 1: underrated in terms of its place in the literary canon

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Speaker 1: by Stephen King? The Stand, Yeah, which is my favorite

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Speaker 1: book of all time, our favorite fiction book of all time,

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Speaker 1: HM does not get the kudos I think it deserves.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the CBS did a terrible remake of it

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Speaker 1: last year. Oh they did one last year. I remember,

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Speaker 1: I remember the TV remake. That was like an event

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Speaker 1: when I was a kid. Like that's one of the

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Speaker 1: only like TV mini series from my childhood that like

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Speaker 1: I remember everybody I was talking about and really captured

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Speaker 1: the zeitgeist. I forced my entire my my twelve birthday

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Speaker 1: slumber party. I forced the entire, my entire group of

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Speaker 1: friends to binge eight hours of the miniseries. We're talking here,

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Speaker 1: a biblical allegory. Eight hours just through it with twelve

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Speaker 1: year olds. That's amazing. You don't close your eyes. People,

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Speaker 1: Remember five am, some of the girls got up and

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Speaker 1: we were just pissed and I left, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and this is mind you. This was an Amsterdam as well,

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Speaker 1: where I grew up, So this was a bunch of

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Speaker 1: twelve year olds who were not native English speakers. I

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Speaker 1: had to go sit through subtitles. Yeah we're I just

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Speaker 1: picture that. You're the one person just sit sat in

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Speaker 1: front of like the screen, just so engrossed while everyone

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Speaker 1: else is like yeah, yeah, you know, we weren't even stumped,

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Speaker 1: you know, right, yeah, right yeah. It's also funny, like

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Speaker 1: a sleepover with girls they're at twelve is like so

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Speaker 1: unheard of in America. It's funny that that you just

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Speaker 1: casually mentioned like that, Oh right, are puritanical and little

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Speaker 1: sleeping near each other? Don't don't underestimate the Dutch puritanical roots.

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Speaker 1: You sure sure r? You just lived in a cool household. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess my friends, we're pretty relaxing. Things in Amsterdam

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Speaker 1: are more chilled than they are in the Dutch countryside,

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Speaker 1: where pure puritanism still rangs. Right right, yeah, well, you

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Speaker 1: know the only play sud argue with you as you

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Speaker 1: saying the Stand was a fictional book because after Obama

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Speaker 1: came to power, I think we all knew that that

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Speaker 1: Stephen King was seeing the future? Am I right? We wasn't?

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of like he's like the bad

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Speaker 1: guy from the Stand ship when Obama was first coming

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Speaker 1: to power. Really maybe that was just me and my pals. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like there's a lot of like anti christ stuff,

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Speaker 1: And I think the bad guy in the Stand was

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Speaker 1: a yeah, yeah, well trash can fire guy. What's his name?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I got it. I'm thinking of the pyromaniac character.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the trash gun man. Right right, it's like

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Speaker 1: that's Obama but yeah, oh man, it's it's wild when

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Speaker 1: people are like, just we if we see a constantly,

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Speaker 1: especially in the American culture, like this thing I saw

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Speaker 1: on TV, I probably connect to this real life event

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Speaker 1: that I'm experiencing now, and I will now map this

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Speaker 1: onto it. Yeah. And then they just made the anti

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Speaker 1: Christ mini series on the History Channel, right or what

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Speaker 1: was it History Channel or National Geographic where they just

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Speaker 1: cast like a Barack Obama look like as the Antichrist.

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Speaker 1: But oh yeah, I miss that. I missed that. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: the US telling on itself again? You yeah, Oh the Bible.

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Speaker 1: I think the Bible is the one I was thinking.

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Speaker 1: Have you guys heard of this one? The Bible? Have

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Speaker 1: you heard they really did? What? That's a that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a strong channel. Wasn't on the History Channel? That's yeah.

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Speaker 1: I gotta gotta reach out to those Middle American viewers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: get them on board. Just keep that narrative alive. Brown

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Speaker 1: skin equals danger, folks, this is America. Is there a

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Speaker 1: shorter Stephen King book for like maybe people who are like,

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Speaker 1: all right, fun, you've worn me down. Stephen King is

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Speaker 1: a great writer. What should I read first? Do you

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Speaker 1: do you have one beyond stand? Yeah? Definitely, Um, Salem's Lot,

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Speaker 1: which is one of his first books. Hm, he's only

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Speaker 1: only runs two d three hundred pages shorter than that. Sorry, man,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna bring it. That's gonna be. That's talking more

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Speaker 1: like twelve thirteen pages you go through it. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: his books are extremely readable, like they kind of read themselves.

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Speaker 1: They're great, as is a book that we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about right after this break. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: and we're back and yeah, So, like we said up top,

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Speaker 1: you know the the w I I used to work

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Speaker 1: for a website called Cracked. We did an article early

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Speaker 1: on like those, one of our more popular articles those

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Speaker 1: like these five major corporations had major had major roles

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Speaker 1: in Nazi Germany, like Hugo Boss being like the outfitter

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Speaker 1: of a lot of Nazi uniforms and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: And at the time I was like that that that

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Speaker 1: seems like, how is this not the only thing people

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Speaker 1: are talking about when they mentioned these companies. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've done an actual like journalistic deep dive into some

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Speaker 1: of the wealthiest dynasties in Germany, like talking twenty thirty

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Speaker 1: billion dollars being controlled by these families and just looking

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Speaker 1: back at the some of the details of the history

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Speaker 1: that are whitewashed out of the stories that they tell,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty mind blowing. You just talked about

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Speaker 1: your journey to like kind of get to this information. Definitely.

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Speaker 1: I mean I started reporting on this topic back when

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Speaker 1: I was at Bloomberg News in New York, and I

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Speaker 1: joined a investigative team at Bloomberg back in late that

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Speaker 1: focused on family owned companies and and family offices and

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Speaker 1: hidden wealth and billionaire fortunes. And I was soon asked

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Speaker 1: I was hired as one of the reporters covering the

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Speaker 1: America's but or covering North America. But because I'm a

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Speaker 1: native dutch Man, I was soon asked if I could

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Speaker 1: add the the German speaking countries to my beat. And

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Speaker 1: that's how I began reporting on this mix of history

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Speaker 1: and big business and finance in Germany, and how I

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Speaker 1: stumbled upon all these very seek creative families that control,

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Speaker 1: you know, massive family offices that invest all over the world,

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Speaker 1: but that also control global brands like BMW and Porsche

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Speaker 1: and Audi and Bentley and Lamborghini and many and Rolls

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Speaker 1: Royce and stay out in Skota and you know, Volkswagen

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Speaker 1: and it's not only limited to the car manufacturing, you

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Speaker 1: know consumer goods as well. In the US. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you have one family that in German family that controls

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Speaker 1: Panera bread and Crispy Cream doughnuts and Pets Coffee and

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Speaker 1: Current Green Mountain, and they all have, you know, these

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Speaker 1: really insanely gripping stories and brutal stories histories of their

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Speaker 1: patriarchs being responsible for taking partaking and the atrocities that

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Speaker 1: happened under Adolf Hitler in in not only Nazi Germany

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Speaker 1: but also in occupied Europe. Right. And I feel like,

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Speaker 1: even to like Jack's point, like up top, right, I

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Speaker 1: think when a lot of even people who feel historically savvy,

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Speaker 1: like at least in the US, when you say, when

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Speaker 1: you think of companies that were quote working with the Nazis,

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Speaker 1: the first things reflectively are like Hugo Box made s

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Speaker 1: S uniforms, or like BMW with the Luftwaffe or with

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Speaker 1: Luftwaffe or whatever. We have these like very sort of

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Speaker 1: like in a vacuum almost where the story is like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well they made stuff for them, and then then the

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Speaker 1: Third Reich was over, and then they just started making

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Speaker 1: their their stuff again. And I think what what's great

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Speaker 1: is that, like your book is saying like that's not

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Speaker 1: the extent of how any of this worked. And I

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Speaker 1: think we have a very sort of superficial understanding of

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Speaker 1: how these like these families or companies amassed their wealth

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Speaker 1: and things like that. But what why do you think

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Speaker 1: that we have maybe this one version where it's cleanly

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Speaker 1: just sort of like they just made stuff and we're

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Speaker 1: not getting into the coarse labor and like seized land

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Speaker 1: and things like that. It's because those companies are no

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Speaker 1: longer controlled by families that are relevant. So these families

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Speaker 1: that do everything to leave that part of their history

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Speaker 1: out on the websites of BMW, on charitable foundations or

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Speaker 1: the website of Porsche, you would never know the controlling families.

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Speaker 1: You could never connect. And it's a little bit like

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Speaker 1: the Secular story too, where you saw the secular name everywhere, right,

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Speaker 1: but but nobody could connect the secular family too. The

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Speaker 1: company that controlled which was a purge of pharma. You know,

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Speaker 1: with with like BMW being controlled by the quants, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's no there's no you know, there's no name to it,

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Speaker 1: and you go, boss, I mean, if I got a

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Speaker 1: dollar for every time somebody asked me where you go,

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Speaker 1: bust be in my book, I would be like a

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Speaker 1: multimillion I would be building. So you go, Boss, I

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Speaker 1: mean is you know the quants were now control BMW

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Speaker 1: were massive textile manufacturers, also made all these uniforms forms

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Speaker 1: for the SS, for the wear muft in and and

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Speaker 1: and it's always for some reason that they come back

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Speaker 1: to Hugo Boast, you know, which is no, there is

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Speaker 1: no Hugo book. There's no Boss family anymore that controls

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Speaker 1: Ugo Boast already for many many decades, but for some

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Speaker 1: reason dead name is stuck into like global consciousness of

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Speaker 1: being like the main company to work together for a

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Speaker 1: Nazi war machine, you know. And it's Yeah, the amazing

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Speaker 1: thing about your book is it's not just like excavating

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Speaker 1: skeletons in the closets of these successful business dynasties and

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, like there's a picture of them and

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Speaker 1: they were like in the SS. But you know, the companies,

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Speaker 1: the dynasties are like built on their ability to exploit

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Speaker 1: like you know, slave labor or forced labor, and like

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Speaker 1: some of the the greatest injustices of the past hundred

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Speaker 1: years and then yeah, it's like the foundations of their

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Speaker 1: companies of some of like these most recognizable brands in

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Speaker 1: the world today and it's just amazing. Like the story

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Speaker 1: about Flick I think in particular is that the one

423
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: who or no, I think I think it was the

424
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: Porsche story where they basically the way that they got

425
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: control of the company, or as much control as they did,

426
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 1: is that you write in like the Porsche patriarch basically

427
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: like bought out his Jewish partner after like you know,

428
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: it was it was basically not okay for that partner

429
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: to own as much of the company, and they got

430
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: it for like very bargain basement like rates and stuff,

431
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: and they never addressed it. And then didn't they like

432
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: basically say that the partner was trying to like extort them. Yeah, yeah,

433
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: so you have so out of Rosenberger, which was one

434
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: of the three co founders of of Porsche, gets bought

435
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: out way under the market value of his shares because

436
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: he's because he's Jewish in Germany a few weeks before

437
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 1: the Nuremberg race laws are enacted, so he is brought

438
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: out of the company way way below for what his

439
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: shares were worth. Subsequently, adding insult to injury. Out of

440
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: Rosenberger is erased from com from from Porsche's corporate history,

441
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: founding history, making it even worse. Very Porsche, the son

442
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: of the of the co founder Portship and the man

443
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 1: who designed the first Porsche sports car in his first autobiography,

444
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: which was exclusively published in the US, because ports Ship

445
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: for America was the most important market for Porship is

446
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: still today to an extent, spews like the most virulent

447
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: anti Semitic virtual about out of Rosenberger, who at that

448
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: point has died in in in l A. He managed

449
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: to flee Nazi Germany settles in America. And it's just,

450
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's beyond belief. And then the irny today

451
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: is that you have, you know, a global foundation, the

452
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: Fairy Porsche Foundation, which is sponsoring you know, a professorship

453
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: in corporate history, and the Porsche family has never addressed

454
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: any part of you know, the the third rag activities

455
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,479
Speaker 1: of their of of of fir and or Fairy Porstiona.

456
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's perverse, right, do you mind

457
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: kind of like explaining for people because I think, like

458
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,239
Speaker 1: I was saying, we just have a very element just

459
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: elementary understanding of how how a company or a or

460
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: a dynasty is enriched by their proximity to the leadership

461
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: of the Third Reich and benefiting from the policies of

462
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: the Third After I mean, after Hitler sees his power

463
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: in Germany in January three, he initiates this massive rearmament push.

464
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: So billions, the billions and billions flow into into the

465
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: factories and companies of German industrialists and German German businessmen

466
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: who start producing for Germany, for for the German for

467
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: the Nazi war machine, you know, and the run up

468
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: to the war already, right, So that's one. So mass

469
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: arms production, mass weapons production was was one of the

470
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: ways to benefit from it. Secondly, you had, you know,

471
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: And that's the example that I just gave up out

472
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 1: of Rosenberger, the co Earth for selling by Jews in

473
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: Germany of their assets either forcibly because I put under pressure,

474
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: or because they want to flee Germany and want to

475
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: get rid of the possessions as soon as possible. In

476
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: order to escape the regime, they have to sell whatever

477
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: they own at fire sale prices. Of course, once the

478
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: war starts and and Germany invades the rest of Europe,

479
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's not only Jews in Germany and Austria

480
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: whose possessions get looted. It is also just you know,

481
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: living in occupied territories whose possessions get so I mean,

482
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: you see it now also with what Russia's doing in Ukraine.

483
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: You know, you see like Russian soldiers looting you know,

484
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: the possessions of Ukrainians. Thirdly, of course, because most german

485
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: Men were at the front fighting, you have this massive

486
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: system of force and slave labor that is enacted by

487
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: the Nazi regime where you have millions and millions of

488
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: Europeans that are captured, men, women, even teenagers that are

489
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: deported to Germany and are forced to work in factories

490
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: and minds, either forced labor where you get paid bittons

491
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: or a slave labor where you got paid nothing. And

492
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: the five families are write about in the book, you know,

493
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: in various ways profited from it greatly, and many of

494
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: them were already exceptionally wealthy before Hitler Empty power. Only

495
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: the Porsche be a family that today controls the folks

496
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: Argen Group, Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini, Audi. Really you can really

497
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: say that they laid the bed foundation for their fortune

498
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: during the Third Reich with for and Unportunate designing the

499
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: folks of out and convincing Hitler to put it into production,

500
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: and of course the the founding of the of the

501
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: Porsche car design firm, which after the war becomes the

502
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: Porsche Sports Car Company, Right Jesus? And like, I mean,

503
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: so it seems obvious why you write this book, but

504
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: like I just want to kind of underline because I

505
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: do think people in some respects have just accepted the

506
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: cruelty of like capitalism and like, yeah, well that was

507
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: a long time ago and they got away with it

508
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: and that's just how capitalism works. But yeah, I guess

509
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, like how, what what has the reception been? Like,

510
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: I guess you're kind of at the early stages of it,

511
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: But you know, what, what are you hoping people will

512
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: will take from this book? I mean, the driving argument

513
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: of the book is is historical transparency. I mean, the

514
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: reason why I wrote ended up writing the book is

515
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,719
Speaker 1: because you have BMW and Porsche maintaining these massive global

516
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 1: foundations that also do charity work in the US and

517
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: in the names of their you know, patriarchs or founders

518
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: or exalted saviors we're celebrating their business successes but not

519
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: being transparent about the war crimes they committed or the

520
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: Nazi affiliations that they had. And I think, you know,

521
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: one learns from history by being transparent about the good

522
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: and the bad. You know, if you just show that

523
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: somebody said BMW from from from bankruptcy, but you don't

524
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: say that day, that day build and dismantle the subconcentration

525
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: camp in Nazi occupied Poland, or that they had you

526
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: prisoners of war enforced labors used at the private state,

527
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: or that he acquired companies stolen from Jews and France,

528
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: or overseeing battery factories in Berlin where where thousands of

529
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: forces slave laborers were used, including female slave laborers from

530
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: from from from concentration camps. Then what you know what

531
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: is you know, you're you're you're you're just whitewashing history.

532
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: You're leaving out history. And especially at the time today

533
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: where disinformation is so omnipresent, you know, you you especially

534
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: these massive global corporations and these billionaire families. You know,

535
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: with great power comes great responsibility. You have to be

536
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: at the bare minimum. I mean I'm asking for the

537
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: bare minimum right be transparent about in the name of

538
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: the person you're you're conducting philanthropy and or you're giving

539
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: out media prizes or you're giving out you know, you

540
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: have your corporate headquarters named after them. Yeah, the corporate

541
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 1: headquarters and the foundations are often named after like the Nazi,

542
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: the Nazi patriarch. Like they're not even trying to fucking

543
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: hide it, and they're not trying to atone in any

544
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: way there, you know, but they're not showing it either.

545
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: That's the problem. That's the problem, you know. And if

546
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: you don't want to do that, you should rename it.

547
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: If you don't want to be transparent about your history that,

548
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: don't call it after because this is no way. I mean,

549
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: you have to BMW Herbert quant Foundation, whose motto is

550
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: inspire responsible leadership in the name of a man who

551
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: committed war crimes. And there's and there's the only thing

552
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: that says on the website is you save BMW from

553
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: bankruptcy in and I think that's you know, I don't

554
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: think that's right. No, no talk of Nuremberg, huh exactly.

555
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: But I didn't make it. He didn't make it to Nuremberg.

556
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: So mm hmm. This is the interesting thing is like

557
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: it just reminds me so much of the reckoning that

558
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: the US can never have with you know, like like

559
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: you've even pointed out the automotive industry is so relevant

560
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: to German culture and to even begin to examine that

561
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: and say, is this thing that is set foundational to

562
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: our culture kind of soaked in blood? Is that is

563
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: that something that we can reckon with that there is

564
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: a dark side to this, very similarly to the U

565
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: s where, like a lot of people, when you start

566
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 1: bringing up the legacy of slavery, the response is like, yeah,

567
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: I know it's bad, okay, but I don't really want

568
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: to think about it anymore. And that was a long

569
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: time ago, and like let's just keep going without ever

570
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: understanding like the banks that most people use were handling

571
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: money from the slave trade, or the like people who

572
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: have descended from slave owners who are in prominent positions,

573
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: or dynastic families that are in the same way. Is

574
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: that do you see that sort of reluctant sort of

575
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: being parallel in this sort of like we don't want

576
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: to really look at our the benefits that that like,

577
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we are experiencing in our national economy

578
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: that's rooted in something much arc totally. But I do

579
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: think that you know, the US is now going through

580
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: time and you particularly sort it in where there is

581
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: this very painful discussion going on, which Germany already had

582
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: a long time ago. It's just a Germany's most powerful

583
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: and wealthies do not want to you know, are seeming

584
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: to be completely cut off from reality. Right in the US.

585
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: You know, this reckoning, as I see, it is only

586
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: just beginning, and it's going to be so much more

587
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: of a confrontation with that history over the over the

588
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: next couple of decades, as morephings come to the four

589
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: as this, you know, as this topic remains at the

590
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: forefront of a national discussion, and as the fights over

591
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: statues in the South, or of Confederate generals, of racist presidents,

592
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: and you know, and at Princeton of Christopher Columbus, these

593
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: these debates are feeling in America. It's only just starting,

594
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: and you know, I hope to see it. It's it's

595
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: it's it's extremely painful, but I hope to see those

596
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: debates intensified because it's a conversation that's long overdune, right,

597
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: And so how do you see that reckoning like that

598
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: the stages of reckoning, because if Germany is in this

599
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 1: advanced place, because I know, like in the curriculum, it's

600
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: not like America where we're actively in a process of

601
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: banning people from knowing anything about the United States history

602
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: if it has anything to do with, you know, something

603
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: that could make the country look bad. And the stage

604
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: that there's this reckoning where most people are because of

605
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: public education and the messaging and the media, we're like, Okay,

606
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: we understand this is our history. It's bad. We need

607
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: to reckon with it. And then it just sort of

608
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: cools off and sort of gets to a place where

609
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: we acknowledge that it's bad. It's not a place to

610
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: go back to, but let's not really look back at

611
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: it too much because we've already done the reckoning. Is

612
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: that sort of the energy or is that sort of

613
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: like inertia that you're trying to break kind of of

614
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: bringing this discussion back up, bringing this discussion to like

615
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: I feel there's a massive discrepancy between German society, which

616
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: is so acutely aware of its collective guilt of remembrance culture,

617
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: and the most powerful in Germany that pretends to an extent,

618
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: or at least outwardly pretend that, you know, they're the

619
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: people who created the billions for them, did nothing, did

620
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: nothing wrong at least that's what they show, right did

621
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: what they come comes down to in practice? Yeah, I

622
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: think there's a massive discrepancy in that, because owning up

623
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: to that means disavowing your father or grandfather, who of course,

624
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, these airs did not create their fortunes. So

625
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 1: they they they derived their entire identity from their father

626
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: saving BMW from bankruptcy, or for their father constructing the

627
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: first bars of sports car, for making the billions that

628
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: they now live off. So it's also becomes a question

629
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: of identity. But the problem is, of course, these these

630
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: these men and women, they control swaps of the global economy.

631
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: You know, they produce consumer goods that that that everybody

632
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: uses every day. So it doesn't I feel that they

633
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: don't seem to realize the kind of responsibility that they have. Yeah,

634
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: I mean, on the one hand, like, yeah, they seem

635
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: like this is a I don't know, it just feels

636
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: like this is really of a piece with a larger

637
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: trend we just see across the global economy, which is

638
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: that not not only does it send a message that

639
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 1: in the modern world you can become the sort of

640
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: like rarefied winner of just everything, like escape the human condition,

641
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: have your name remembered after death on buildings and streets

642
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: by exploiting war crimes. But it just sends a message

643
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: that like thoroughly an old really like the you know,

644
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: guilt and innocence and like morality like don't matter and

645
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: as long as you're making money. And I feel like

646
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: we just people are just now coming to grips with that,

647
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: and like we pathologize and diagnose and medically treat our

648
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: unhelped unhappiness in a system that like tells us everywhere

649
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: every day that like, well, but you know, you're kind

650
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: of like it doesn't say it would never say this. Instead,

651
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: they would create a foundation that would like ultimately find

652
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: academically that they would never say something like this. But

653
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: what all the actions and like outcomes of everything tell

654
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 1: you that we are insignificant rounding errors in a massive

655
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: system that's like ultimately designed to create wealthy people and

656
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: have those extremely wealthy people kind of perpetuate their wealth.

657
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: So depressing me, Well, when I see individual examples like this,

658
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: like it feels like you know, we are like this

659
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: is a correctable thing, Like hold people accountable for their

660
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: immoral actions, especially when they're rich, because like when they're

661
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: rich and use that wealth to escape the consequences of

662
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: their immoral actions, like that is the ultimate condemnation of

663
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: your system. Like that, Like you can't let that happen,

664
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: and like that's all we do is let that happen. Yeah,

665
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: And I mean there's just like this thing, like you know,

666
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: we all it's hard to reckon with it all because

667
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: we want to avoid acknowledging the barbarism of our society

668
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: and and sort of maintain this idea that becoming rich

669
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: as a moral pursuit and that that there are heroes

670
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: that we celebrate, and we were unable to really divorce

671
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: ourselves from this really sick kind of mythology that we

672
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: have to the point where, yeah, that the message really is, well,

673
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: if you're rich enough, you can do anything. That's really

674
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: the thing that I think resonates with all of these examples,

675
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: which is doesn't if you're rich enough you can you

676
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: can suck it. Just buy the fucking newspaper that's talking

677
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: bad about you and just silence them, right, Just do that.

678
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: It's easy. You want to stop people from talking about

679
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: you get into publishing, like I've I've heard you talk

680
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: a lot. I've heard you talk before in other interviews

681
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: about people like even you know Springer, the owner of Politico,

682
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: and just generally even how we were constantly we have

683
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: these figures who are now getting into the media sphere

684
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: too and being able to massage and control the narratives

685
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: from there because again, you can make the rules up

686
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: when you have a certain amount of money. Do you

687
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: have you like seen anything where you're like, wow, people

688
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: are really quick to just justify this and move on,

689
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: like other than by the families themselves. But just like

690
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: in as you are bringing this to people's attention, have

691
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: you seen like do people seem surprised? Because I my

692
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: concern is that like people have ultimately accepted that, like

693
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: wealth is the only goal, and yes, the entire enterprises

694
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: a moral but like fuck it, like that's that's the

695
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 1: way it is. I do feel there's a there there's

696
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: a change in in in in that consciousness. I feel

697
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: I feel that that people are becoming more aware of

698
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: that and trying to do something good with the money

699
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: that they're making, you know, to an extent, but yeah,

700
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, you know there were people when

701
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, I spent four years in Berlin from Berlin,

702
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, doing research and moved from New York to

703
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: Berlin to do research for this book. And you're right

704
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: it And you know there are people who said, how

705
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: you know Germany has done such a great job, but

706
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, at reckoning with with our history, and that's

707
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,439
Speaker 1: not you know, that's not really a point. I think

708
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: Germany to a large extent has done a great job,

709
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: and it's a fantastic country. It's just that I feel

710
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: that the most powerful and not only the most economically powerful,

711
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: but you know, the family that controls BMW, Germany's wealthiest family,

712
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: the Quants, they, you know, are also the largest political

713
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: donors to to what was Angela Merkel's party, right, and

714
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: and you know with economic power also comes great political power.

715
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: And that's you know, it's the one at the very

716
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: top that are still glossing over leaving out this history. Mhmm. Yeah, Well,

717
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: thank you for writing this book, Thanks for coming on

718
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: our show and trying to our listeners about it. You're

719
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: not We're not letting you go yet. I thank you. Yeah,

720
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: you're you're stuck for another ya ten minutes. But yeah,

721
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: and people, people can go out and get this book now,

722
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: and we suggest you do. Let's take a quick break

723
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: and then we'll come back and talk Coachella, you guys,

724
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: and we're back, and just at a surface level, is that.

725
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: Have you guys watched any any coach Hella coverage, if

726
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: you watched any of the performances streamed anything. I just

727
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: saw pictures of people, celebrities that we're there. Yeah, yeah,

728
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: I've seen like the two seconds of a Billie Eilish

729
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: performance that they keep showing me on Twitter to be

730
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: like check it out. It was like the number one

731
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: trending thing for like four days out of the five

732
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: days this week, the same clip over and over again.

733
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: I don't know if my Twitter like is broken or what,

734
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: but it just felt I felt like they really wanted

735
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: me to to watch that. But those two seconds looked

736
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: like there was a lot of energy there. You know.

737
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: I I'm not that interested in like watching video of

738
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: live music performances personally, that's just like not a I mean,

739
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,959
Speaker 1: unless you're watching like an actual produced to like music,

740
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: like a rock documentary or concert documentary. But yeah, phone

741
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: footage of a live show not gonna kind of work.

742
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: But I mean the wildest thing was to see uh

743
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: like Leonardo DiCaprio would like just completely masked up, like

744
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: like blowing through there like some ghost. It's just being

745
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: like I'm here, but you'll never see my face and

746
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: I'm vaping. But the Yeah, he he had a mask

747
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 1: on that like covered up most of his face. It

748
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: looked like one of those uh those uh fencing like masks.

749
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: So I got some tickets. You're trying to unload, jack

750
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: or what? Yeah. Yeah, I'm just saying it looks tight

751
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: and like people should maybe think about like hitting me

752
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: up on Twitter. G ms are open and this weekend

753
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: second weekends supposed to be the best, so just check

754
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 1: it out. Uh So that's been Coachella. No, So Jackman

755
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: did this article where they were talking about like, you know,

756
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: coach Ella continues to be at the bleeding edge of

757
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: capitalist bullshit, and there's like some good points in there.

758
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: I just think they're a little bit dismissive of like

759
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: how potent like this this festival and this ideal is.

760
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: You know, they highlight the barge barges full of garbage

761
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: and like months of water supply being sucked out of

762
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: a very delicate ecosystem in single weekends. Uh this year,

763
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: there's an n f T spin on it where you're

764
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: given an n f T desert flower seed and then

765
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: you get to sit back and watch it bloom. And

766
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: if you get one of the six rare desert flowers,

767
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: if that's what your n f T blooms into, you

768
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: get like I don't know, like the big stuffed animal

769
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: or some ship, I don't know what. What's that? Did

770
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: you get insulin? Oh? Yeah, yeah exactly. But truly feels

771
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: like the the n f T market is just evolving

772
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: into a elementary school carnival. Yeah, they and the people

773
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: who keep hockeying them cannot read the room. Ever. Zig

774
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: Cody Ziggler pointed out this thing that there was like

775
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: an n f T like a board ape yacht club

776
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: thing that was supposed to be in like in like

777
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: sort of coincide with four twenty and like weed justice

778
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: for black people, but as an n f T and

779
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: you're like, this is all bad, Like this is so

780
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: has completely no awareness at all around what anyone thinks

781
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: of this or even what the imagery is of like

782
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 1: putting an ape with like the context of like black

783
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 1: people are incarcerated because of like weed charges. Um. Anyway,

784
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: it's just yeah that that ball keep throwing steadily. But

785
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: so the detail that jumped out to me is just

786
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: kind of having some familiarity with the history of Americans

787
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: currently known as the Baby Boomers. That Burning Man or sorry,

788
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: coach Elo was originally designed by its founders as a

789
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: synthesis of nineties music festivals. Burning Man and quote the

790
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: sixties era longing for a new world, which three days

791
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: in the desert helps satisfy m And I just thought

792
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: that was like to be dismissive of that is a mistake.

793
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: That's like so specific and clear, and it was so

794
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: effective with the Baby Boomers, you know, they had like

795
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: all these revolutionary impulses and like they took that and

796
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: with the case of Coachella, they give it a fun,

797
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 1: like pretty release valve that's neatly contained in the middle

798
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: of the desert, doesn't actually have any impact and in

799
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: fact enriches American Express or whoever the corporate sponsors are.

800
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 1: But like Woodstock was a music festival conceived by Fifth Avenue,

801
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: like admin, and like that history has like only slowly

802
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: like trickled out. But any sort of idealism of the

803
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: sixties like got turned into just like advertising aesthetic basically,

804
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: and the people who got rich off of that aesthetic

805
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: are in the business of making sure that like you understand,

806
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: it's just an aesthetic that is like fun to visit

807
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: every once in a while, and you know it's created

808
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: the current world, like the what what happened with the sixties,

809
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 1: and like I highly recommend the electric kool Aid asset tests,

810
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: the tracking of the Mary Pranksters and like the LSD

811
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: movement that sprung up around like the Grateful Dead and

812
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: ken KSI and like that just kind of falling apart.

813
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: But I don't know, like we like that. That's very

814
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: that's very potent to be like, yeah, no, we just

815
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 1: like create this little pop up shop Disneyland for people

816
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: where we you know, make beautiful advertisement versions of the

817
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: issues you care about. You get to take home a souvenir,

818
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: you get to take pictures there that like put you

819
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: in an environment where it seems like you're actually engaging

820
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: with the thing. And then you're done, and like that

821
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 1: you can go back to the big loneliness, as someone

822
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: recently called it when talking about Rec's eggs, And I

823
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 1: just think it's it's important to recognize that like that

824
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: group that like started out with those idealistic impulses are

825
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: now the group that's like funding or that's fueling like

826
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 1: you and on and the rise of Donald Trump and ship,

827
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: so like we have an opportunity to not do that

828
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,720
Speaker 1: with a lot of the like energy around social justice

829
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: and social movements. But I think it's important that people

830
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: like recognize that this is somewhat insidious. What when it's

831
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: like converted into just a an ad for American Express

832
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: that you participate in creating on your Instagram feed, But

833
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: you're saying like it's but more than that, the insidious

834
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: nature is to give people this like sort of well

835
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: coordinated distraction to just kind of take a little wind

836
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: out of the sales. So you're like, yeah, blow some

837
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: steam off at Coachella. Then I can go back to

838
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: toiling and not really getting the itch to likese. Like

839
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: even your reference this line of saying like spent to

840
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: spend three days in like a world that three days

841
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 1: in a new world longing for a new world, which

842
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: three days in the desert helps satisfy just sort of

843
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: subdue the longing for the new world. Yeah, and you

844
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: associated with that, Like suddenly your idea for like a

845
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: socialist society or like community where you can like be

846
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: part of a community with other people and like be

847
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: outdoors and outdoor spaces. Suddenly that's something you associate with

848
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 1: like a trip to the desert for three days instead

849
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: of something that you like work with your uh, like

850
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 1: the people in your community to accomplish uh in your community.

851
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: Like it becomes just a part of Disneyland of like

852
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: this like simulacrum of like an idealistic society that actually

853
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: is contained by American Express. Like they like try to

854
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: imagine hearing that like a revolution rose up on the

855
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: Coachella campgrounds, Like like it's it's impossible because it's so

856
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: carefully tailored. There's also a New Yorker article that like

857
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: it follows around the guy who created Coachella, and you

858
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: know he's just trying to make money. But like the

859
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: the thing that was the scariest moment for him in

860
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: the history of the festival was when like people figured

861
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: out how to clone the bracelets and like they had

862
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: a gate crashing. You like, it's that's how carefully contend

863
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: it is well, I mean, I think everyone's so fucked

864
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: up there. I don't know what they're bringing back with

865
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: them at the end of it, but they may be

866
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: subdued by the amount of drugs either way. But yeah,

867
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: it's fine. Like I don't I don't mean to like

868
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: I I also don't look down on anyone going to

869
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: Coachella and like going and getting funked up in the

870
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: desert like around music they love. I just I think

871
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, I think the packaging of it

872
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 1: and the engaging with it, Like it's not just merely

873
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: that you're going to a music festival. There are other

874
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: people who are trying to do a lot of marketing, normalizing, etcetera.

875
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: Like it's it's not it's not it's not as I guess,

876
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: it's not as what it appears to maybe on the

877
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: consumer side versus what you know, companies like you're mentioning

878
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: get out of it too, like to associate their name

879
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: with like, oh, check out the like PEPSI cool water

880
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: filling like station, and now you're like, oh, yeah, they

881
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: the water filling thing from the company that also sucks

882
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: drinking water out of the fucking earth. Like that sort

883
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: of mixed signaling. Essentially, Yeah, I don't know it just

884
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: it do it feels? You know. The whole thesis of

885
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: our show is that there's this collective unconscious and that

886
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: like people are smarter than than the mainstream like media

887
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: apparatus like often gives them credit for. And I think

888
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: like all of the ship matters, like the messages we

889
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: get from the fact that, oh yeah, like the richest

890
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: family in Germany are like Nazi billionaires. The Coachella is

891
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: like taking all the things that are actually like serious, good,

892
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: beautiful ideas that we should be thinking about incorporating into

893
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: our daily lives and like turn them into a aesthetic

894
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 1: that like, you you know, get to bathe in on

895
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: Instagram for a couple of days and then like move

896
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: on from Like I think all that stuff is had

897
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: an impact. That is what has kept people advocating, like,

898
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: you know, not advocating for their best interests for the

899
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: past like fifty sixty years. Basically, Yeah, I mean, I

900
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: wonder if the difference is right because at least boomers

901
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: and Gen xers they were able to benefit from an

902
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: economy that began to sub brue a lot of those

903
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: revolutionary impulses, right, because especially with the eighties, we're like, oh,

904
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: you're yuppies, now you're sold out or whatever, and it's like, no,

905
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: I'm now a guy. I might actually have access to wealth.

906
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: But millennials and younger we're not, We're not following that

907
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: same path. So I think they're I'm I'm I'm curious,

908
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: how like what has to happen where you have to

909
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: kind of really take the to subdue the urges that

910
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: are so many young people feel now around like saying like, dude,

911
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm completely disillusioned by my lack of opportunity, Like I'm

912
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: in fact, I've become nihilistic. Where you know, how do

913
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: you how do you like turn that person into like

914
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: a good, you know, target shopping consumer for life type person,

915
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: especially when they don't even have the money to do

916
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: stuff within the first place. I mean, I think maybe

917
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: that's like the weird moment that we're into is like

918
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: that process is a little bit slowing down because of

919
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: the massive amounts of inequality. Yeah, David, what are what

920
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: are your thoughts? Both says you know someone from outside

921
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: the country, but also you know somebody who used to

922
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: report for Bloomberg. Where where where do you kind of

923
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 1: fall on this whole like moment in American idealism. I

924
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: guess I'm extremely worried about well, particularly what's going on

925
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: in America the polemic, but also and I mean I

926
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: write about it in the book. You know, when I

927
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: started reporting for Bloomberg News in twleven on this team,

928
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: it was literally last week of November eleven when when

929
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: Succotti Park, when Occupy Wall Street was forcibly removed overnight.

930
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: It was the beginning of the debate of the one

931
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,439
Speaker 1: percent versus or now it's it's transformed into the zero

932
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: point one percent versus nine and that you know, the

933
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, the bifurcation of society and the you know.

934
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: Afterwards came Piccatti, of course, who took at you the

935
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: next level and also showed gave the historical context. But

936
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: it's only got to gotten worse in recent years. And

937
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: I'm deeply concerned for the future of America. I'm very

938
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 1: concerned for the future of Europe as well, because it

939
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: has it has similar problems, you know, in terms of

940
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: the incredible inequality of wealth and and and the haves

941
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: and have not. It's not you know, is is also

942
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: undermining you know, the fabric of Europe and European Union

943
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: as it is in the United States, in terms of

944
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: political spending, on political capital, political power, the shaping of

945
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: American capitalism as it you know, we started off this

946
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: episode talking about Earth Day and and scientists saying, oh,

947
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: it's going only going to be two degrees, you know,

948
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 1: in the next century. The problem of wealth inequality at

949
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,919
Speaker 1: one hand and and climate change at the other, which

950
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: very much go hand in hand. You know, I'm I'm

951
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: really sorry, but I'm worried that it's already, you know,

952
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: it's too late. You know, it's that where we're you know,

953
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: we're on the on the precipice of day of of

954
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: decades of disaster and war and troubles and and you know,

955
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm very concerned for said the world.

956
01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: Sorry to leave you guys with this. I mean, yeah,

957
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: I think it's something we all feel because it's there's

958
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: the rigidity of it all when we're seeing that the

959
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: way that the powers that be are the wealthy, choose

960
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: to solve problems and actually exacerbate the existing problems, and

961
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: they can't see that terrible feedback loop that you know.

962
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: I think that's why a lot of people are like, well,

963
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: I guess the wheels have to completely fall off for

964
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,959
Speaker 1: people to figure it out. Um, but can that happen?

965
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: Or on the other side of it, even see people

966
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: how they're even saying like, well, you know what, we'll

967
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: spend our way out of climate change. We'll build and

968
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: innovate our way out of climate change, and we'll just

969
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: spend more money and experiment more, rather than just doing

970
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: the very simple thing, which is like begin to switch

971
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: to renewable sources of energy and really have and think

972
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: of like what the amount of you know, carbon output

973
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 1: that certain industries are emitting every year. But rather than

974
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: doing that, it's like, no, we'll just keep doing this

975
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: and like we do, if a problem comes up, we'll

976
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: just spend money to try and figure it out. But

977
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: at that point, I just feel like the problems are

978
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: being surmountable where no amount of money can be spent

979
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: to like I don't know, have a desalinization plant that

980
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: could you know, like hydrate the entire hemisphere. What are

981
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: we talking about here in that scenario? And I think

982
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: that's what is a little bit disillusioning, is that, oh,

983
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: we see that the same problem solving mentality is We're

984
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: just going to stay in place because of the people

985
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: that are in power consistently. Well, David, thank you so

986
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: much for coming on, Thank you for writing this book.

987
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Follow you, get the book,

988
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: all that good stuff if you If you want to

989
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: get the book, get it at bookshop dot org because

990
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: they support local and independent booksellers. And if you want

991
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 1: to order it online, go there, or just go to

992
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: your local bookstore and get it and get it there.

993
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: You can follow me at David de Young on Twitter

994
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: and Instagram. Here you and is there a tweet or

995
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: some of the work of social media you've been enjoying.

996
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: I am still enjoying. Three weeks later, the tweet by

997
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: Elon Musk about getting this at Bergheim, and he said,

998
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: I saw peace written on the wall at Berkheim. They

999
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: refused I refused enter, which was like sent at seven

1000
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: am in the morning Berlin time. And it was unclear

1001
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: whether he was rejected from Bergheim, the famous nightclub in Berlin,

1002
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: which is impossible to get into, or whether he did

1003
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: not want to enter. But some people are speculating that

1004
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: because he was you know, he received so much, you know,

1005
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: he was laughed about so much following a tweet that

1006
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: day that he launched his hostile takeover of Twitter following

1007
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 1: week Wait, his his tweet, original tweet, which I I, uh,

1008
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, I try to stay up on Elon Musky.

1009
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah right, I'm sure. Yeah. Well, the tweet was of

1010
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: the exact tweet was day wrote peace on the wall

1011
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 1: at Burghard. I refused enter. I refused to enter, which

1012
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:13,919
Speaker 1: was like a no peace like peace, like like love

1013
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: and peace. Yeah yeah, and and I refused enter. And

1014
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: it was sent at about eleven pm East Coast time,

1015
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: so it was five t exactly time. TWITTERIM five am

1016
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: Berlin time. He had just opened his Giga factory in Berlin,

1017
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: and I guess you wanted to celebrate in berkheind that

1018
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: certainly didn't happen. Burkeheid notctorious for its for its strict

1019
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: or policy, and it's cooler than cool being able to enter.

1020
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to gain entry a few times,

1021
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: but only because of my much cooler friends. But I

1022
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: found it. Yeah, I still I'm still enjoying it, especially

1023
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: now seeing the entire battle between Musk and Twitter for

1024
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: who's going to control Twitter? And uh yeah, we'll see

1025
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 1: that being decided in the next couple of weeks. Yeah,

1026
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm team I'm team Twitter. Right, it's odd to think

1027
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: that his him getting dissed at the door at burg

1028
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: Eyn is like Trump at that correspondence dinner. Right, Yes,

1029
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: that's my originary hurt. Yes, I will use to launch

1030
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: this destruction campaign. Was like the ultimate goal of this

1031
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: whole system we've been talking about. Still doesn't make you happy?

1032
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Oh wow, richest asshole in the world can't

1033
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 1: walk through a door now pissed, We'll buy Twitter cool?

1034
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: Sign me up, Miles. Where can people find you? What

1035
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: is the tweet you've been enjoying? Uh? Find me on

1036
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Gray. Also, you know,

1037
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: we got a basketball podcast, Mad Blues Jack and I

1038
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: and also my other reality trash TV show fiance checked

1039
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: that pot out If you like ninety day Spurs tweet

1040
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: I like from Blair Saki at Blair Saki tweeted, I

1041
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 1: really want to fall in love, but but not with

1042
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: any man I know or have met or seen before.

1043
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: It's just great. Just you just want something new, that

1044
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: perfect thing that's out there. And then another one from

1045
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: doctor hurdy Gurdy at not really a doctor tweeted, I

1046
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 1: like big butts, and I cannot lie. My brother like

1047
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: small butts and cannot tell the truth. Each of us

1048
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: guards a door. One leads to an and one leads

1049
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: to an anaconda that is sprung, the other to certain death.

1050
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. I loved it more

1051
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 1: if it wasn't Also my tweet Miles un you know

1052
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: what we gotta coordinate before anyways. Uh yeah, latest episode

1053
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 1: of One Drop yesterday, we're talking to Anthony Edwards. It's

1054
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: a blast. Yeah, just another tweet. I've been enjoying. Vinny

1055
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: Thomas at then underscore A tweeted, my sauce packet drawer

1056
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: is a thriving metropolis and a beacon of diversity. I

1057
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: think that is true of a lot of sauce pack

1058
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: drawers and SketchUp packets, hunts, I throw away hunt. You

1059
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 1: gotta keep always. And then somebody tweeted for those of

1060
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 1: you who are going to continue to wear masks on

1061
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: your flights, how will you respond to a passenger asking

1062
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: you why you were still wearing a mask? And Hannah

1063
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: Michael's tweeted, my breath smells like come and I think

1064
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: that's a good answer. I think that's the way to go.

1065
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with that. You can find and us

1066
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at the Daily Zeitgeist

1067
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 1: on Instagram, we have Facebook fan page and a website,

1068
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: Daily zeitgeist dot com where we post our episodes. On

1069
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: our foot notes were a link off to the information

1070
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: that we talked about today's episode, as well as a

1071
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 1: song that we think you might enjoy. Miles, what song

1072
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: do we think they might enjoy it? Okay, So this

1073
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:13,959
Speaker 1: is a collaboration between this artist from Guinea named Fallene

1074
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,639
Speaker 1: Okay f A L l E n I Okay and

1075
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: this just like I believe this guy is a UK producer,

1076
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: London based producer named ghost Culture, and this track that

1077
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 1: they're on together called le wole l E y w

1078
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 1: O l E is like a really great synthesis of

1079
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: like West African vocals and like lyrical stylings, but with

1080
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: this you know, kind of like obscure electronic, like edited

1081
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: African percussion beat on it. And I don't know, it's

1082
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: just a very good blend of musical styles that fits

1083
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: very well and it just feels like a very original track.

1084
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,679
Speaker 1: So check out this track. It's called le Wole by

1085
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: Ghost Culture and falle ni Okay. Speaking of ghost culture,

1086
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 1: check out Jamie Loftus is The trailer for her new

1087
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:06,799
Speaker 1: podcast is up and it is all about spiritualism, which

1088
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 1: is like the American religion of ghosts basically, you know

1089
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: it was. It was practiced by a lot of people

1090
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: around the time of the Civil War. It's called ghost

1091
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: Church and it's you know, the thing that started by

1092
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 1: the Fox Sisters who we're communing with the dead, and

1093
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 1: the dead would talk back by by knocking on walls,

1094
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:32,759
Speaker 1: which was a scam. They were actually doing the knocking.

1095
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 1: But that is still around to this day. And the

1096
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: trailer's dope again, Ghost Church by Jamie Loftus. That is

1097
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: going to do it for us this morning. We are

1098
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and

1099
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: we will talk to y'all. Then I didn't do the

1100
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 1: part where I say The Daily Zeygeist is a production

1101
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: of by Heart Radio. For more podcast for my Heart Radio,

1102
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 1: visit the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you

1103
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Yeah, and that that'll do it.

1104
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: That'll do pig for today's that'll do a full episode

1105
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: back this afternoon to tell you what's trip fight fight