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Speaker 1: What is Up?

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Speaker 2: Mets fans? Welcome back to a special episode of the

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Speaker 2: Mets Stuff Podcast. We are joined today by Will Salmon,

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Speaker 2: be writer of the Athletic for the New York Mets. Will,

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Speaker 2: thanks for joining us. Can't wait to talk some Mets

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, good to be on with you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good to see you too, Will.

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Speaker 3: So we're coming off recording this for you guys Friday morning,

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Speaker 3: coming out Saturday. So we just watched Join and Tongue

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Speaker 3: have a great bounce back performance against the Padres. What

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Speaker 3: did you see from Tongue and what do you see

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Speaker 3: as the Mets internal brass's confidence in Tongue moving forward

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Speaker 3: for another possibly big start next week and possibly anything

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Speaker 3: after that.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think first you have to acknowledge that it's

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Speaker 4: probably pretty hard to do what he did right, Like,

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Speaker 4: he had one of the worst starts that one could

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Speaker 4: really envision having. He did not get past the first inning,

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Speaker 4: he only recorded the first two outs of the game,

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Speaker 4: So that's really hard to then go back and the

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Speaker 4: week after and arguably face a better team, right, a

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Speaker 4: better hitting team in the San Diego Padres, and try

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Speaker 4: to help win a game where all these games matter.

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Speaker 4: So much to the mess inside of the final two weeks,

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Speaker 4: like that's extremely hard for a twenty two year old

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Speaker 4: person to do, and so acknowledging that the first part

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Speaker 4: was he exemplified like why people are so high on

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Speaker 4: his character is because he can be that type of

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Speaker 4: person who could persevere and accomplish that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's first, and.

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Speaker 4: Then secondly, just the idea that he was a lot

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Speaker 4: more convicted and a lot more aggressive in the strike zone,

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Speaker 4: particularly with his fastball. I thought that was great to see,

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Speaker 4: and I felt like as the game went on that

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Speaker 4: became even sort of more clear, right, Like we saw

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Speaker 4: him do that, We saw him elevate the fastball even

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Speaker 4: out of his zone. Particularly that bad against Manny Machado

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Speaker 4: really stood out to be where he's hammering high fast

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Speaker 4: palls and it's Manny Machado, so you think eventually like, hey,

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Speaker 4: I'm not really sure about this, but he ends up

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Speaker 4: shreking the guy out, and I thought that was a

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Speaker 4: key out there.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty impressive.

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Speaker 4: And also just like the idea of using all of

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Speaker 4: his pitches right, because I feel like when I spoke

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Speaker 4: with rival scouts when he got called up and especially

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Speaker 4: after that start against the Rangers. They were like, whoa, Like,

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Speaker 4: maybe we should not be seeing this guy in the

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Speaker 4: major leagues because whether you felt good about the third

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Speaker 4: pitch or you didn't feel good about it, or you

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Speaker 4: were saying to yourself like, well, he didn't really need

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Speaker 4: it in the minor league, so that's why he wasn't

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Speaker 4: throwing it. The point is that he wasn't throwing it,

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Speaker 4: and so if you're going to the major leagues and

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Speaker 4: you're not really throwing it as much, that could be problematic.

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Speaker 4: And so I wanted to see him throw the change

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Speaker 4: up in ways that made more sense. But I also

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Speaker 4: wanted to see the breaking ball, the curve ball, or

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Speaker 4: the slider a little bit more. And we did see that.

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Speaker 4: We saw that a fairly solid person. And again I

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Speaker 4: didn't expect to see it much more than that because

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Speaker 4: it was the Padres and they're a team that does

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Speaker 4: not really fare that great against fastballs, and Tong's fastball

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Speaker 4: is great, so like, why wouldn't he want to utilize

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Speaker 4: that pitch and be aggressive with it?

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Speaker 1: But I just thought the complete showing was just really

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Speaker 1: great to see, like from all angles from Jonah Tong, from.

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Speaker 2: A mental side, it seems like Jonah Tong's extremely tough

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Speaker 2: for at least extremely loose. Was there anybody in the

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Speaker 2: clubhouse or anybody on the team that after that Rangers

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Speaker 2: start really got to him and get to talk it through.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 4: I thought that like every conversation I had about Jonah

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Speaker 4: Tong with the veterans in the clubhouse, they all had

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Speaker 4: a story to tell me about like them bringing it

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Speaker 4: up to him and sometimes like I hear that, I'm

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Speaker 4: like okay, yeah, sure, but like no, they were pretty

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Speaker 4: genuine about it, Like Ryan Stanning comes to mind, Sean

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Speaker 4: and I Brendon Demo And those are just three guys

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Speaker 4: off the top of my head. There were plenty of others,

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Speaker 4: And I even asked after the game, I spoke at

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Speaker 4: Jonah Tong and I said, like, you know, a lot

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Speaker 4: of these times I feel like with a young guy

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Speaker 4: in particular, like in your shoes, I can imagine like

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Speaker 4: hearing from fifteen or twenty different people like all these

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Speaker 4: things and it's not probably registering as much. So I

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Speaker 4: even asked him like, hey, like was there one person

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Speaker 4: in particular where like that message actually resonated the most

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Speaker 4: to you? And he's kind of stopped me, and he

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Speaker 4: was like, you know what, I get what you're saying.

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Speaker 4: And that's usually the case where like all these people,

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Speaker 4: all these coaches, all these players, it's right after the game.

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Speaker 4: You're not really taking in everything that they're saying. But

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Speaker 4: in this case, I really was like I was absorbing

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Speaker 4: all the information that these guys were saying, and I

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Speaker 4: can tell you, like all these things that each of

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Speaker 4: one of them told me, And if it was even

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Speaker 4: some guys that I didn't really have that great of

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Speaker 4: a relationship with, not that I disliked them or anything

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Speaker 4: like that, I just don't really know them that well

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Speaker 4: because I've only been here a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: So that, to me, I thought was pretty cool.

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Speaker 4: I think it's a pretty solid room when it comes

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Speaker 4: to that type of thing for the Mets. You could

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Speaker 4: gripe about other things or like whatever, but like they

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Speaker 4: have a pretty good room in terms of just like

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Speaker 4: good character people in there and just genuinely good people

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Speaker 4: when it comes to baseball and when it comes to

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Speaker 4: becoming a good teammate.

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Speaker 3: There was a cool part in your piece after Tongus

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Speaker 3: started against the Padres where you mentioned the fact that

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Speaker 3: the team was really not concerned, but they're watching intently

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Speaker 3: how well he was able to get over that ranger

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Speaker 3: start mentally, and he basically not sulk for a day,

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Speaker 3: but he kind of he dwelled on it. And then

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Speaker 3: they said two days later, who's back to preparation had

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Speaker 3: that same voracious attitudes.

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Speaker 2: That's something that was a genuine concern.

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Speaker 3: Where if they maybe two three days after that start,

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Speaker 3: they continued to see him dwelling, do you think that

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Speaker 3: could have changed whether or not he actually got to

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Speaker 3: start against the Padres.

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Speaker 1: It's a good question.

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Speaker 4: I mean I had asked him pretty much right after

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Speaker 4: that if he was still going to be in the

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Speaker 4: mix for a start, and their answer was pretty much yes.

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Speaker 4: So I think it would have had to have been

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Speaker 4: like something drastic where that would have changed, because you know,

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Speaker 4: it just seemed to be like that was their plan along, was, Hey,

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Speaker 4: he's going to need to get this next start and

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Speaker 4: we're going to see from there.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's a good point that you raised.

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Speaker 1: It's a good question.

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Speaker 4: It would probably be something where, yeah, it would have

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Speaker 4: to be pretty dramatic for that to occur.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of the reason why they were optimistic.

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Speaker 4: Was because they thought that this would be the case, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: they've known this kid for a while now, a couple

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Speaker 4: of years he's been in the organization, So he may

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Speaker 4: be sort of new to Jeremy Hefner or Carlos Mendoza

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Speaker 4: and some other people the major league coaching staff, but

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Speaker 4: he's not new to Eric Jaegers or other people in

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Speaker 4: the Mets player development system who know him very very

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Speaker 4: well at this point and probably had a pretty firm

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Speaker 4: idea of how he would respond to it.

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Speaker 2: There's been a lot of stories this year. Just everything

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Speaker 2: going on the Mets world's pretty crazy, but especially on

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Speaker 2: the pitching side, it feels like it's been in such flux.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that the Mets expected Noel McLain and

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Speaker 2: Brandon sprote Jonah Toong, I don't even want to say

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Speaker 2: to have the impact that they had to be as

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Speaker 2: good as they had when they called him up.

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Speaker 4: No, probably not, but I think that they probably figured

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Speaker 4: that they would help. And when I spoke to people

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Speaker 4: around the game, even not just with the Mets, but

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Speaker 4: even sometimes with the Mets around the trade deadline, like

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Speaker 4: they pointed to these guys as like, Okay, if we

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Speaker 4: oh trade for a starting pitcher, look for these people

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Speaker 4: to be in the mix here, So that from a

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Speaker 4: couple months ago in early July mid July, that was

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Speaker 4: part of the thought process there as to like why

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Speaker 4: they weren't so desperate maybe to add to their rotation

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Speaker 4: or add to at a starting pitcher was because they

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Speaker 4: felt like maybe one or two of these guys they'd

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Speaker 4: be able to call on and they'd be able to help,

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Speaker 4: particularly Sproute and mcclaim. Tongue was not necessarily part of

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Speaker 4: that equation until a little bit further out, Like, I

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Speaker 4: don't think that he was part of that.

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Speaker 1: I think it was more like even like Blade Tidwell being.

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Speaker 4: Part of that conversation rather than Jonah Tongue at the

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Speaker 4: time that I'm talking about when I was reporting it,

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Speaker 4: because he was just he was a double A and

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Speaker 4: just the odds of him continuing to be that dominant

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Speaker 4: to force their hand and to create that conversation just

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Speaker 4: didn't really seem realistic at the time. But yeah, I

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Speaker 4: think that they've definitely obviously surpassed expectations at this point.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think anyone could really say they

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Speaker 4: expected Nolan McClain to be as good as he has been.

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Speaker 4: But I will say though, that for the last couple

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Speaker 4: of years, like the Mets people, and you can say

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Speaker 4: maybe that they're biased or whatever because it's their own prospect,

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Speaker 4: but like the Mets people were definitely more high on Nolan.

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Speaker 1: McLain than the rest of the industry.

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Speaker 4: And I go back to even shortly after he was

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Speaker 4: drafted that offseason, I always kind of put together like

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Speaker 4: lists of like breakout prospects or where certain guys should

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Speaker 4: be ranked, or just my own personal thoughts, and I

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Speaker 4: had multiple people tell me, like, look, wherever you put

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Speaker 4: Nolan McLain, it's not going to be high enough. And

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Speaker 4: this was before he became the person that we all

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Speaker 4: think of him as right now, and this was even

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Speaker 4: before he dropped hitting. Like this was early in the process,

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Speaker 4: So like, yeah, like they're gonna like their own prospects

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Speaker 4: a lot more than probably other teams would. But I

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Speaker 4: figure in the case of McClain specifically, there were people

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Speaker 4: in this organization who were very high on him from

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Speaker 4: the jump.

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Speaker 3: We kind of went through that too on this show

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Speaker 3: because I remember that Spring Breakout game two years ago

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Speaker 3: and we watched Nolan McClain throw that sweeper. It was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: because you can clearly see the pitch characteristics that pitched

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Speaker 3: the veloscity to spin the movement like this, this would

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Speaker 3: be a ninety nine percent of sweep in the major

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Speaker 3: leagues right now. This guy's barely eaving a pitcher at

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Speaker 3: this point. So it did feel like and again there

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Speaker 3: were some other people in national media who continue to

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Speaker 3: bash Mets pitching prospects, we kind of had to all

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Speaker 3: collectively as part of this Mets media world, had to

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Speaker 3: defend these guys. Now they come up. There's something else

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Speaker 3: crazy about Nolan McLain. While he's been amazing on the field,

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Speaker 3: he seems poised, serious, very just direct about everything he's doing,

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Speaker 3: just seems incredibly locked in all the time. Another piece

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Speaker 3: he wrote recently about kind of the relationship of these

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Speaker 3: three guys and how it's been built through the minor

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Speaker 3: leagues now continuing in the major leagues apparently Nolan McLain

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Speaker 3: is a bit of a jokesterre.

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Speaker 2: He has an incredible sense of humor.

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Speaker 3: Joana Tom called him bubbly. Can you give any insight

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Speaker 3: into these parts of Nolan McClain's personality that I don't

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Speaker 3: think any METS fans had any experience, but so far.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Medd, I had no idea.

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Speaker 4: But that was part of the appeal of like wanting

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Speaker 4: to do that type of story was I went into

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Speaker 4: it with an open mind. I said, like, look, I

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Speaker 4: kind of have a good idea of like who Jonah

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Speaker 4: Tongue is as a person, just because I had covered

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Speaker 4: a couple of his starts in the minor leagues. I

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Speaker 4: got to know him a little bit, and I don't

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Speaker 4: think it takes too long with Jonah tong to understand

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Speaker 4: like who he is as far as his personality goes.

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Speaker 4: It comes across very easy in that way. But with

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Speaker 4: McClain and Sprout, it's a little bit more cagey or

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Speaker 4: a little just a little bit more like you have

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Speaker 4: to dig a little harder. I felt like to kind

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Speaker 4: of see like what they're all about, what they believe in,

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Speaker 4: who they are as people, what they care about that

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Speaker 4: sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: And so for me that was.

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Speaker 4: The appeal there is because I didn't know what I

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Speaker 4: was getting, especially with Nolan McClain, And yeah, come to

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Speaker 4: find out he is like this big jokester where apparently

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Speaker 4: he's like the funniest person in the world according to

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Speaker 4: Jonah Tongue. But then Brandon Sproute it was quick to say, well,

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Speaker 4: everyone's funny to Jonah Tongue, so you take it and

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Speaker 4: do your homework and find out why he's so funny.

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Speaker 4: And I did, you know, I got to talk with

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Speaker 4: more people, and Brendon Sport in a particular brand up some

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Speaker 4: funny things that McClain was saying. Some people would say

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Speaker 4: like they're kind of like middle school humor. I found

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Speaker 4: it funny myself, so maybe my bar is too low for.

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Speaker 1: It, but I thought it was pretty humorous, and I

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Speaker 1: just thought it was really cool.

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Speaker 4: And you're right, like McClain does not show that on

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Speaker 4: the mound. He's very I don't know if intense is

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Speaker 4: the right word, but he just goes about his business.

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Speaker 4: Maybe yeah, like he's just at his business and like

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Speaker 4: you just don't really anticipate, like all this guy's the

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Speaker 4: one smack and sunflower seeds out of somebody's hand in

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Speaker 4: the middle of a game during the dugout, just for

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Speaker 4: kicks or something like that. But he is apparently, So

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Speaker 4: I think it's important for the Mets going forward. I

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Speaker 4: think it helps them right now because of these guys,

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Speaker 4: Like we said about Jonah Tung, they have like a

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Speaker 4: lot of pressure on them as twenty two, twenty four

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Speaker 4: to twenty five year old guys without any major league

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Speaker 4: experience prior to last month, and so you don't really

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Speaker 4: know how they're handling it day to day. So I

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Speaker 4: felt like it was important to kind of get to

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Speaker 4: know who they were. But also going forward, I just

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Speaker 4: think it as we saw last year, it's fun sometimes

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Speaker 4: even just from the outside, to have guys who are

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Speaker 4: very likable on the roster. I think it makes it

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Speaker 4: just more fun to watch unfold and see how the

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Speaker 4: team kind of goes about its business. And it's cool

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Speaker 4: to see like three guys just grow up together in

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Speaker 4: the system and experience this kind of thing, and especially

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Speaker 4: if they continue to have the success that appears maybe

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Speaker 4: likely for them.

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Speaker 2: Has there been any noticeable change in the vibe in

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Speaker 2: the clubhouse since those guys have been here? I mean,

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Speaker 2: yesterday we saw Lindor when Nimmo hit the home run,

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Speaker 2: he was on third and he basically like screamed, let

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Speaker 2: out a scream of excitement, And that's stuff that we've

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Speaker 2: seen from this team in the past, but it felt

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Speaker 2: like at times during this year it's a little bit

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Speaker 2: tough because of how poorly they played for a bit,

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Speaker 2: but it feels like we're starting to see a little

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Speaker 2: more emotional, a little more excitement again from this team,

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Speaker 2: like twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if I would attribute it to

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Speaker 4: the younger pitchers so much, just because I felt like

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Speaker 4: in that first game that McClain pitched against the Mariners,

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Speaker 4: there was some of that to it, and that was

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Speaker 4: visible and that was obvious. But some people were kind

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Speaker 4: of quick to point out to me within the mats

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Speaker 4: like that type of thing could kind of just go

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Speaker 4: away pretty quickly, or it's something that it's hard to

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Speaker 4: hold on to because it is sort of organic and

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Speaker 4: it's something that's in the moment and you're just reacting

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Speaker 4: to it and having fun with it, and like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it could maybe motivate you for a couple of games.

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Speaker 1: Maybe even the rotation.

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Speaker 4: For that matter, but after a while you need other things,

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Speaker 4: like you because after a while, like you may even

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Speaker 4: get used to his success if he's that good, and

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Speaker 4: maybe they already have he has been that good. So

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Speaker 4: like yes and no, I think like when they do

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Speaker 4: take the mound, there is like this like palpable level

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Speaker 4: of excitement to it because it's almost appointment viewing for

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Speaker 4: these guys because you want to see what they're all about.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, this team has been pretty

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Speaker 4: consistent with I think.

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Speaker 1: Who they are and like what they're not. Like, they

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Speaker 1: haven't gotten too excited about big winning streaks or big

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Speaker 1: losing streaks, and sometimes that's I.

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Speaker 4: Feel like it's a it's a good thing in some ways.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes I feel like they could stand to get a

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Speaker 4: little bit more emotional about some things. Not there though

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Speaker 4: so hard for me to say, or maybe wrong for

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Speaker 4: me to say that, because you don't know what you

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Speaker 4: don't know, and I'm only privy to what I see

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Speaker 4: and what people tell me.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think sometimes I look at it and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay.

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Speaker 4: They They've had this manager in Carlos Mendoza, who is

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Speaker 4: big on being the same person every day, same thing

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Speaker 4: with Francisco Lindor. He's big on saying or people are

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Speaker 4: big on saying about him. He is the same person

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Speaker 4: every day. So I have a hard time then saying

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Speaker 4: to myself, well, they've lost eight in a row, so

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Speaker 4: it's time for Lindor to be something different. If he's

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Speaker 4: not that guy, he's not that type of guy who's.

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Speaker 1: Going to stand up and and you know, order everybody

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Speaker 1: around or something like that, or be that raw row guy.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they need that going forward.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure, but I don't know if like the

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Speaker 4: younger pitchers have completely changed that dynamic.

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Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say that.

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Speaker 4: They probably have helped it though, because it's that, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's that sort of you know, you get that jolt

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Speaker 4: of youth or energy, and yeah, I don't think it

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Speaker 4: could hurt, especially when they're pitching as well as they are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just a little bit more fun. I feel like

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Speaker 3: having a couple of other young guys around This team, though,

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Speaker 3: has had some crazy highs and lows this season. From

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Speaker 3: what you've seen being around them, is there a low

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Speaker 3: moment that you've noticed, Like we know that the image

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Speaker 3: they put forth is the same guy every day, Like

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Speaker 3: you just said, Mendoz and Lindor basically the two leaders

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Speaker 3: in this clubhouse. But as they've had multiple seven eight

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Speaker 3: game losing streaks have been backs against the wall in

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Speaker 3: this wildcard race op position based on talent, they really

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Speaker 3: should not be in at all. Has there been a

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Speaker 3: low moment that you've just seen with these guys internally?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple comes to mind. I think in Milwaukee,

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Speaker 1: what was that like last month? Shortly after the strade deadline,

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Speaker 1: we saw some guys, Lindor in particular, sort of lose

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Speaker 1: their cool in ways that they usually don't. Right.

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Speaker 4: We saw him slam his glove a few times that game,

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Speaker 4: upset with himself for making the error. I think it

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Speaker 4: was he just had an all round bad game and

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Speaker 4: a string of just lackluster performances.

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Speaker 1: And he was not alone there.

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Speaker 4: I think so too showed emotion, a lot of emotion

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Speaker 4: other players as well, Francisco Alvarez, there were other guys, right,

390
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Speaker 4: So I think that comes to mind as one where

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Speaker 4: they were in the middle of a tough stretch there,

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Speaker 4: one of their tough stretches, and that was a low

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Speaker 4: point for my eyes.

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Speaker 1: There's also been.

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Speaker 4: Times you walk in the clubhouse it's a little bit

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Speaker 4: more quiet than usual. I suspect maybe somebody had something

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Speaker 4: to say, although people would not confirm that. But recently

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Speaker 4: in Philadelphia that comes to mind, where you walked into

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Speaker 4: that clubhouse that final game and.

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Speaker 1: It felt like, Okay, this is a little bit more different.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes that stuff doesn't really come out until after

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Speaker 1: the season, or sometimes that comes out when they turn

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Speaker 1: things around, and like you hear like Okay, somebody's a

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Speaker 1: little bit more interested in talking about that at that time.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not really sure like why those particular

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Speaker 1: things happened, or like why I felt that way. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong with it, but I got those sense, the

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Speaker 1: sense that those moments were particularly low for this group,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately for them, they've had multiple occurrences, even the

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Speaker 1: Pirates series. Obviously that was a tough one too.

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Speaker 4: That you knew for sure that when that loss occurred,

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Speaker 4: it was going to be one of those team meeting days.

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Speaker 4: And so I remember standing outside the Pittsburgh Visiting Clubhouse

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Speaker 4: and the tunnel in the basement of the stadium, and

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Speaker 4: I just knew right when I got there that I'd

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Speaker 4: be standing there for a good fifteen to twenty minutes

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Speaker 4: because it just had that feeling and sure enough, that's

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Speaker 4: what it was.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, there's been a few of those for the

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Speaker 1: met's sake.

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Speaker 4: Hopefully with what nine games left as we're talking, they

422
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Speaker 4: don't have too many more or anymore.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there have been a few low points for

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Speaker 1: this group for sure.

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Speaker 2: What happens like from your perspective after like one of

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Speaker 2: those team meetings, like how is it just everyone silent

427
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Speaker 2: like at their spot in the clubhouse and it's just

428
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Speaker 2: kind of like tough to get answers out of people?

429
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Speaker 2: What's the vibe?

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Speaker 1: Well, sometimes actually, or a lot of times, there's nobody

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Speaker 1: in the room by the time we're allout in the room,

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Speaker 1: So that makes it extremely hard, right, Like there's only

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Speaker 1: a couple of guys who are actually there to even

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Speaker 1: talk to or even volunteer talking to or the PR

435
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,880
Speaker 1: staff could corral to get them to talk to us.

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Speaker 4: And then other times after a meeting guys are very talkative.

437
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Speaker 4: I think it kind of depends on how that goes

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Speaker 4: and like what the state of the team is at

439
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 4: that particular point. For that one in Pittsburgh, there were

440
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,360
Speaker 4: some guys who are still lingering in the clubhouse, Lindor

441
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 4: Nimo other guys as well. That one was a little

442
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 4: bit different because from what I gathered, there was like

443
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 4: eight to ten dudes who stood up and talked to

444
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 4: the room, including some younger players like Ronnie Mauricio and

445
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 4: that kind of thing, which I thought was kind of

446
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,280
Speaker 4: unusual actually, but maybe it says some good things about

447
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 4: their team. I don't know, but yeah, they all kind

448
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 4: of vary, but for the most part, you don't really

449
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,400
Speaker 4: get a good read on like exactly how that went

450
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 4: until you start those conversations, and a lot of times

451
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 4: you have to start those conversations kind of privately and

452
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,920
Speaker 4: sometimes even like well after the fact really because part

453
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 4: of it as just human beings, like we wanted to

454
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 4: register too.

455
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:09,360
Speaker 1: Though.

456
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 4: I feel like sometimes right like the raw, in the

457
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 4: raw scene of it, like maybe you think it went

458
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 4: really well, but then three days later you're like, Okay,

459
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 4: maybe that got lost in translation or you don't really know.

460
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 4: So I think like, if you're having like honest conversations

461
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 4: with guys, sometimes that's happening, and not even just with

462
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 4: the Mess any team that you cover as a reporter,

463
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 4: that's happening days after the fact, and like you're checking

464
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,360
Speaker 4: in on it and you're kind of seeing like, okay.

465
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 1: Like did this go as well as you thought it did?

466
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 4: And was this the message that you thought was received,

467
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,360
Speaker 4: how people responded to it, And you don't really get

468
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 4: that read until a few days after.

469
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 6: Hey, if you're a card collector or you're looking to collect, buy, sell, trade,

470
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 6: Arena clubs the spot. I'm going to tell you why

471
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 6: because the old process AJA was very clunky. By a box,

472
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 6: rip the pack, tons of comments, send it in for grading,

473
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 6: and then finally you get everything back. This is weeks

474
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 6: and weeks and you can start to try and sell

475
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,239
Speaker 6: the card. We have eliminated that with Arena club or

476
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 6: they have. I act like I'm part of it, but

477
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 6: in really one step.

478
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 7: Arena's your one stop shop for everything. You get a card,

479
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 7: you open a slap pack, the card is there, it's graded,

480
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 7: It spins around. Cooley shows you three D the front,

481
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 7: the back, you can look at the corners, you can

482
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 7: look at everything, and then you get a decision do

483
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 7: I want to keep it? Do I want to sell it?

484
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,239
Speaker 7: Do I want to trade it? It gives you an

485
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 7: instant offer you can buy it back and re rip

486
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 7: another slap pack and try for someone else, or you

487
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 7: can keep it and hope the value goes up and

488
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 7: sell it a later day. It is truly the best

489
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 7: spot to get cards.

490
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 6: Twenty percent off your first slab pack or card purchase

491
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 6: can be had right now at Arena club dot com.

492
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 6: Slash foul and use code foul.

493
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, thinking about that team meeting that they had after Philly,

494
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 3: and then the possible team meeting they had after Philly.

495
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 3: Then you go into the first game against the Rangers

496
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 3: and give up six in the first inning. That kind

497
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 3: of feels like maybe you do need a couple of

498
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,919
Speaker 3: days to see if that actually sticks. But bring some

499
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 3: of this conversation back to on the field. Another pitcher

500
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 3: who has probably been the most disappointing player in this

501
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 3: team this season called that Sanga went down to the

502
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 3: minor leagues, had one great start, one poor start. Carlos

503
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 3: Mendez was non committed on what Sanga's role would be,

504
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 3: if any, for the rest of the season. Is there

505
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,120
Speaker 3: any indication either way on if we see him again,

506
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 3: if we should see him again, if we want to

507
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 3: see him again.

508
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: I think it's possible.

509
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 4: I spoke with people before that last start and they

510
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 4: were raising the I was talking, and I was just saying, like, Okay,

511
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 4: I think that he's probably still part of the equation here.

512
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 4: And part of that is because, like they don't really

513
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 4: have too many other great options, right Like, David Peterson

514
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 4: has been inconsistent lately. He looked for a long part

515
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 4: of the season, like a game one or a game

516
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 4: two guy. Now not so much, right, Like that has

517
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 4: kind of changed that conversation, that conversation. Yes, with the

518
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 4: younger players, especially with McLain, you sort of pencil him

519
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 4: in as the guy. But we still have some starts

520
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 4: to go for Bread and Spro, We still have some

521
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 4: outings to go for Jonah Toong. So I'm not ready

522
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 4: to put either of those guys an ink quite yet.

523
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 4: If I'm the Mets, we have the way to get

524
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 4: more information. And then with the piggyback situation, it worked

525
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 4: out well, but it was again it was one time

526
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 4: where they tried it and it worked out. So we

527
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 4: don't really know one hundred percent how they feel about it.

528
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 4: But with Sego, I think that they would love for

529
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 4: him to be part of it just because of the

530
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 4: pure stuff. But he's somebody that as we know now,

531
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 4: years into his Mets tenure, you kind of know that,

532
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 4: like he has to have things like just right. Like

533
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 4: some people would call it being a perfectionist. Some people

534
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 4: would call it being like delicate, like there's there has

535
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 4: to be a level of like these things need to

536
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 4: feel right for me to be successful.

537
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you could really go into

538
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: the playoffs with that.

539
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 4: It's tough, right because we saw that last year when

540
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 4: they tried it, it didn't really work that great, like

541
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 4: they rolled the dice on it because of the pure

542
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 4: stuff that he has and rightfully so. And again, they

543
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 4: were in a situation where he probably was one of,

544
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 4: if not their best option. When you give in all

545
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 4: the choices and weighing everything all the values, he presented

546
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 4: a pretty high reward for you if it came to fruition,

547
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 4: But the risk was also there, right, And I think

548
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 4: it's the same sort of situation or a similar situation

549
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 4: in this case. And I think it probably depends a

550
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 4: lot on where you are, Like do you need certain

551
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 4: guys who are pitching maybe Game one, sixty one, one

552
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 4: sixty two, who otherwise would be your Game one or

553
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 4: game two guys, or are you in a situation next

554
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 4: week where you're able to line things up a little

555
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 4: bit more the way that you want them to be

556
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 4: at lined and then I don't think there's that much

557
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 4: of a need to roll the dice on someone like

558
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 4: Sanga because he has yet to show you these last

559
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 4: couple of months since returning to the injured list that

560
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 4: he could be the guy from the first half.

561
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: You briefly mentioned the piggyback situation, something we've been clamoring

562
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 2: for on the podcast for months now. It's just like

563
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: it's not working. We need to make a change. Something

564
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: that we saw David Stearns do a lot in Milwaukee

565
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: was be creative with how that roster was constructed, how

566
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 2: he went about pitching and everything over there just a

567
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: little bit different. Of course, the Mets have more money.

568
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: Have you seen any changes from David Stearns when you

569
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 2: were covering the Brewers to David Stearns now with the Mets?

570
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have. I'd have to think a little bit

571
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 4: more on like what exactly they are. I think with

572
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 4: the pitching staff the thing to come to mind, because

573
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 4: I think, like the conversation sometimes is like, well, why

574
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 4: didn't they just do this a few months ago, right,

575
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 4: And I think that's a valid criticism and it's a

576
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 4: good question to raise, not really in defense of the Mets.

577
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 4: But I think the other argument is, well, I think

578
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 4: that the best case scenario was for Shaman and Iya

579
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 4: to be the guy who gives you six innings, and

580
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 4: I think that they probably wanted to give him a

581
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 4: leash where he could show that he could be that

582
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 4: guy until it was obviously he couldn't. And maybe they

583
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: went a little bit long with it, maybe too long

584
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 4: with it. But at the same time, like they also

585
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 4: built this bullpen at the trade deadline, where they sort

586
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 4: of said to themselves, maybe we don't really need these

587
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 4: long outs, like maybe we can get four or five

588
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 4: out four or five innings with these guys and then

589
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 4: just hand it off and let our bull let our bullpen.

590
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: Go to work. That also hasn't happened, So I think

591
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: like those two tracks of thought were going on there,

592
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: and they also were kind of valid in their thinking.

593
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: It just it didn't work out, Like it just wasn't

594
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: good enough.

595
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: The bullpen just it isn't as deep as it should be,

596
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 4: it isn't as good as it should be. And then

597
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 4: Manaia has had his struggles and his inconsistencies before his

598
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: last maybe one and a half outings or so, So

599
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 4: I understand like why they wouldn't have done it before that,

600
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: although I would have personally done it.

601
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: I would have actually called up McLain earlier as well.

602
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: I'm not the one making those decisions, of course, but

603
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: I just think that.

604
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 4: I just say that because I do think that they're

605
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 4: valid concerns or criticisms there to say, like, well, why

606
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 4: didn't they just do this beforehand? There are reasons for it,

607
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 4: like especially like if you're shortening up someone like Mania,

608
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 4: or you're shortening up someone like Clay Holmes and you're

609
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 4: asking him to go even shorter than he already is.

610
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 4: It's hard then to just suddenly ask him, Okay, now

611
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 4: we need six hittings from you because X player is injured,

612
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 4: or we don't feel like we have the depth to

613
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 4: pull this off start after start. So I feel like

614
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 4: there is a part of the season where you have

615
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 4: to reach where you have to commit to this as

616
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 4: a as an idea, and it's pretty hard to do

617
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 4: that in mid August.

618
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: It really is.

619
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've made the analogy recently. I don't know if

620
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: you've ever watched Breaking Bad, But there's the scene where

621
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: later seasons where Walton Jesse steal the metal mean off

622
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 3: of the chemical train and the things are going awry,

623
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: the people are getting back in the train, but whilst

624
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 3: like I'm not leaving, I have to wait to the

625
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: last possible moment to do this. And it kind of

626
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 3: feels like sometimes that David Stern might act like that

627
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 3: just because he knows where this team's playoff odds have

628
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 3: been despite the big losing streaks, Like that's it's kind

629
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 3: of the disconnect between the public thought and the end

630
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: of the league thought, where like Wi Jerry's probably said a

631
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: few years ago, like our goal is fifty four percent

632
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 3: and get to the dance, Like that's not what we

633
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: want to hear his fans. But in a way of

634
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 3: actually running this team and thinking about it, it's like

635
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 3: I can wait for the last possible second to see

636
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: if Sean and I can be himself. Next question, you

637
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: need to see if you got that Ryan Helsley can

638
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 3: possibly be themselves because I can take so many chances

639
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 3: because no matter what, we're not catching the Phillies and

640
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 3: probably these teams a wildcard rac are not catching us.

641
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 3: So it's like you can afford yourself a painful second

642
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: half for all of us to watch all of these

643
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 3: things fail over and over again. Well, at the end

644
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 3: of the day, we would eighty three games and make

645
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 3: the playoffs by one.

646
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

647
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: I think that to the question about like how his

648
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 4: David Starting's kind of changed or what he's done differently.

649
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 4: For me, his calling cards have always been sort of

650
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 4: competing ones where sometimes I find him to be not reactive,

651
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 4: but I find him to make moves earlier than some

652
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 4: gms do. We saw that last year with a series

653
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 4: of moves he made when it was you know, going

654
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 4: to Louis Trenz as the backup catcher, just making some

655
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: different changes, installing Jose Gleasias as a bigger part of

656
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 4: the major league roster, those kind of things we saw

657
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 4: him do early on. There was also a good reason

658
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 4: for that, because you mentioned the standings were completely different

659
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 4: back then last year, and I saw him do that

660
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 4: with the Brewers when I covered him covered him back

661
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 4: then when he traded for Willia Domins in May and

662
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 4: pulled off the type of trade that most gms do

663
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 4: not pull off at that time of year. But the

664
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 4: other part of it, the competing one, is always his patience.

665
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 4: I've always found him to be somebody who is pretty

666
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 4: patient with certain players or certain trends, and and that

667
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 4: in those senses, sometimes he does not react as quickly

668
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 4: as like a particular fan base would want him to

669
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 4: or a fan base of that team would want him to.

670
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 4: And for the most part of that it pays off.

671
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 4: You could go back and forth whether some of them

672
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 4: this year have or haven't. But yet I feel like

673
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 4: it's been sort of a mixed as far as results.

674
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: Go for him, and and I don't know.

675
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: I I go back and forth on it myself with

676
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 4: like whether or not he's had a good year or

677
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 4: he hasn't because I liked with they did in the

678
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 4: off season.

679
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: I liked what they did at the trade deadline. Yeah,

680
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: but it hasn't worked right, Like a lot of it

681
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: hasn't worked out the way that we thought it would

682
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: work out. And so clearly that's not good right.

683
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 4: So have a hard time sort of going in my

684
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 4: head of like, Okay, is this a good job or

685
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 4: is it not a good job.

686
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: So it's it's a tough one to analyze and provide

687
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: analysis on for.

688
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: A guy like Cedric Mullins or even Hellsley, guys who

689
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: came from smaller markets and came to New York and

690
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: struggled pretty much instantly. Is there, I mean, there's no

691
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: other way to say it, Like, is there? Is there

692
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: anything that you've noticed, Like does the New York like scene,

693
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: does the media? Does it actually have this big of

694
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: an impact? Can you see it weighing on these guys?

695
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 4: Well, there's that, But I also like point to the

696
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 4: idea that these you guys also were never traded before,

697
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 4: like in general anywhere, let alone New York City. And

698
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 4: I think that even for guys who are veterans and

699
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 4: who have been in this league a long time, that

700
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 4: can hit you a certain way. Where if you're Cedric

701
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 4: Collins and you're especially coming from the American League, where like, yeah,

702
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 4: we see these teams more thanks to the commissioner, more

703
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: than we do before, but like it's still a different

704
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 4: league and we still don't see them as frequently as

705
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 4: we do teams in the NL East. Right, So a

706
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 4: lot of these guys like they don't know that Centric

707
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 4: Mollins is any good, Like, yeah, they do, they don't, right,

708
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 4: Like they know who he is that kind of thing.

709
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 4: But they've never really seen him play every day, Like

710
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 4: they don't know his capabilities. They don't they're not aware

711
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 4: of like this hot stretch that he went on for

712
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 4: the Baltimore Orels. It's also not really relevant, like he

713
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 4: has to continue to like prove himself here. And I

714
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 4: think those guys do feel that actually, Like you come

715
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: into a new clubhouse, you want guys to understand, like, Hey,

716
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 4: this is what I'm good at, this is what I'm about.

717
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 4: They may not say that publicly, but I feel like

718
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 4: that's probably part of their thought process. Like as human beings,

719
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 4: you want to sort of say I bring value to

720
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 4: this room, and like you want people to acknowledge that,

721
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 4: And when you're trading for guys who have never been

722
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 4: traded before, I think that sometimes.

723
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: That's part of it.

724
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 4: And I wonder sometimes, like how much of a part

725
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 4: of the calculus that was in those particular cases where

726
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: you don't really know how they would have reacted, let

727
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 4: alone to the New York market, but just being on

728
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 4: a different team a different organization in general, you want

729
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 4: to say, like, Okay, these guys are professionals.

730
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: They're going to perform, and it's not going to really matter.

731
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 4: But you know, you have a hard time doing that,

732
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 4: like when you're talking about like, hey, we're all human beings,

733
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 4: Like these guys are not robots. So like if you

734
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 4: acknowledge that part of it, then you also say like, okay,

735
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 4: like they're going to be human, They're they're going to

736
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 4: be professionals.

737
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: They're just going to handle it. It doesn't really jibe.

738
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 4: I think you have to get to know the player

739
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 4: a little bit more, and so I'm just I'm curious

740
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 4: about how much homework they did on the particular players

741
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 4: and like how they would react to certain things, because

742
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 4: clearly they were surprised by Ryan Helsley's performance for the Mets. Right,

743
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 4: they would not have traded the prospects that they traded

744
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 4: for him if they thought that there was a chance

745
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 4: of him having this as part of like the you know,

746
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 4: chances of like bringing him into the Mets.

747
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: Like, was this something that was on anyone's radar?

748
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 4: Probably not right like to it's been something that has

749
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: been worse than anybody could imagine for somebody that's been

750
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 4: very good for a long time and that probably will

751
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: be very good after this season wraps up. Unfortunately, whether

752
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 4: it's for the Mets or anybody else, like, he's going

753
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 4: to probably be just fine for his career.

754
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: He's had a very solid career, a very good career.

755
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 4: So yeah, I question a lot of the process of

756
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 4: getting these guys beyond knowing that they're good at what

757
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,239
Speaker 4: they do, like who are they as people and how

758
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 4: much that mattered.

759
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: He might be a lights out closer for the Texas

760
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: Rangers next season, but as we've run out of options

761
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: basically any meaningful right handers besides Diaz and Rodgers, who

762
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 3: are now the absolute ninth and eighth in the guys

763
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: in his bullpen. Is there any hope that Hellsley has

764
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 3: something figured out internally? Do they think the tipping is over?

765
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: Because we've seen him have a couple scoreless alleys recently.

766
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: They haven't been clean scoreless allings. One was a double

767
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 3: with a guy getting doubled off and he picked off

768
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 3: in the padres. Is there any hope whatsoever that he

769
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: can at least be a decent if he can match

770
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 3: Reed Garrett's first half for the next week and possibly

771
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 3: in a playoff series.

772
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: There's hope because there's still some time left for it.

773
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 4: There's like just enough time, right, because you're talking about

774
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 4: nine games, and maybe that's a few appearances. So if

775
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 4: he puts together a few appearances that completely change our

776
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 4: minds on like what he's been able to do so far,

777
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 4: then sure, I think that he becomes part of it.

778
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 4: But to your point, like he hasn't really had too

779
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 4: many of those in a row, right, Like he'll have

780
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 4: one and then you scratch your head and be like okay,

781
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 4: like how did this happen again two days later? So

782
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 4: that's been his problem. I think the tipping part is

783
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 4: for the most part behind him, like most of the time,

784
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 4: Like when I talk to them as people, they do

785
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 4: say it's behind them that they have figured things out.

786
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 4: But I wonder about like just a subconscious part of

787
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 4: that sometimes. And I've spoken to Ryan about it and

788
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 4: he's said like, yeah, I have a hard time because

789
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 4: it's something that I'm doing something now that I haven't

790
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: done before, and so sometimes it creeps in my mind

791
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 4: and it's hard. It's hard to just be like, Okay,

792
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 4: I shouldn't be doing that or that thing that I

793
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: was doing. Make sure I'm not doing that, And sometimes

794
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 4: it could impact your mechanics. I guess sometimes it's just

795
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 4: something that's hard to get out of your mind. So yeah,

796
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 4: it's hard to place a like a bet on in

797
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 4: Ryan Helsley reverting to form right and it's a problem

798
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 4: for a team that doesn't have as many guys, like

799
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 4: you said, who are right handers who you really trust

800
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 4: in those situations, especially after Read Garrett's injury. I know

801
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 4: he wasn't having that greade of a season, but he

802
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 4: was having a fairly solid season, and he was somebody

803
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 4: that Mendoza clearly felt comfortable deploying in key situation. So

804
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 4: I think between Hellsley and Stanic, like you're hoping for

805
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 4: one of those guys to get on a big run,

806
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 4: but they've both been inconsistent, to put it mildly, and

807
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 4: beyond them, there aren't a whole lot of options. Actually,

808
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 4: I'm a little bit surprised that they haven't tried Dylan Ross.

809
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: And Triple A.

810
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 4: He's been somebody that's been pretty good for Syracuse and

811
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 4: he's been good in the minor leagues all season. He

812
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 4: also needs to be added to the forty man roster

813
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 4: after the season for Rule five purposes.

814
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: Anyway, So I was kind of surprised by that, But

815
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: at the same time, he has also had some command issues,

816
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: and that's something that would pop up in the major

817
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: leagues too. So sure it looks good in Syracus, but

818
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: when the lights come on and it's a big game

819
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: and a key spot or you're really trusting somebody who's

820
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: had those sort of command issues, probably not so all

821
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: that to say, like that's where they're at. Like it's

822
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: Rogers and it's the left handers, and it's Diaz, And

823
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: that's not so much of a problem in the postseason

824
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: because of the days off and like the short series

825
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: and the fact that your season's over if you're not

826
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: going to win that game anyway. But it could be

827
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: problematic if your league goes back to one and a

828
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: half games in the wild card or trims to a

829
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 1: half game, or if you find yourself in a bad

830
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: situation where you're losing games in a row. Then yeah,

831
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: it's very problematic for this team, but at least for

832
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: the postseason if they get there, it shouldn't be that

833
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: much of an issue or as much of an issue

834
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: as it is right now.

835
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: Before we let you go, well, first off, thank you

836
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 2: for joining us. Really to appreciate it. Give the people

837
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: at home a little bit of a heat check, a

838
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 2: vibe check of what's going on here. How the Mets

839
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 2: are looking and feeling over these last few games of

840
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 2: the season.

841
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 1: Well, things are a lot different.

842
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 4: And I feel like in September, like things could change

843
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 4: so quickly, right from one week to the next.

844
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: We're seeing that almost on a weekly basis with the Mets.

845
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 4: But I feel like this is a team that believes

846
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 4: that they're going to be in the postseason firmly, one

847
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 4: hundred percent.

848
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's that much doubt from there.

849
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:34,479
Speaker 1: The people in that room.

850
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 4: I do feel like when I get to talking with them,

851
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 4: even like when they were going through that losing streak

852
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 4: recently and I was being like, I don't know about

853
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 4: those guys.

854
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: They were more like, no, I think that things will

855
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 1: be fine.

856
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 4: I also will say I don't think those other teams

857
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 4: are any good, Like those teams are just not very good.

858
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 4: I can't name off the top of my head too

859
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 4: relievers on the Diamondbacks Ross right now where no, well,

860
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 4: that would be the one I'm talking about too.

861
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: And even him, he's like someone that's like, Okay, where

862
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: was he pitching last year? Who knows?

863
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 4: So it's just they created this sort of mess of

864
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 4: a of a race, if you want to call it that,

865
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 4: Like it was of their own creation. So I think

866
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 4: that they acknowledge that and they're aware of that, but

867
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 4: they also have this confidence, and rightfully so at certain

868
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 4: points of the season. I've wondered if it's a false confidence,

869
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: and it's almost something like that's been a problem of like, okay,

870
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 4: like if you continue to say you're this talented, maybe

871
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 4: that allows you to subconsciously.

872
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: Put things in cruise control when you really shouldn't be.

873
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 4: I've wondered about that, but they've been quick to say, no,

874
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 4: you're wrong, because that means that you're telling us that

875
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 4: our preparation is off and it's not been off, and

876
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 4: we have been taking this seriously and so okay, you know,

877
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,479
Speaker 4: I raise my hands and I say, well, that's that's

878
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 4: me being wrong then, And if that's the case, uh so, yeah,

879
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 4: I feel like they're in a good spot as far

880
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 4: as mentally goes to withstand this. I think they call

881
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 4: on their postseason experience too when it comes down to it,

882
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: like you're talking about guys who have been here before,

883
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 4: who have been in bad situations, particularly with the Mets

884
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 4: and who have experienced this sort of thing for better

885
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 4: or worse. I think in this case it probably will

886
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 4: be for better. You would think that they've been able

887
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 4: to navigate this. So I think that the vibe is

888
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 4: still fairly It's pretty good right now. But like I

889
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 4: said at the beginning, things can change really quickly, and

890
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 4: they have changed repeatedly in September.

891
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 2: All right, Will Simon, thank you so much. Let the

892
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: people at home know where they can find you and

893
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: all your stuff. Appreciate you coming on. Mess up.

894
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

895
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 4: I'm on X and Blue Sky at Will Salmon on

896
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 4: X and at the Athletic dot Com. Me and sim

897
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 4: Britain cover the Mets for the company and we have

898
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 4: a bunch of stuff coming out this week, obviously setting

899
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 4: the stage for what's at stake for the Mets and

900
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 4: heading into their final nine games with three you final

901
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 4: ones at home against Nationals and then the upcoming road trip,

902
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 4: and then we'll have the postseason well covered as well.

903
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: So again, thanks for having me on, guys. Do appreciate it.

904
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on, guys. Make sure you're following us

905
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: on all our social media at metstup, subscribe to the

906
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 2: Mets the podcast YouTube channel if you want to watch

907
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: the video version of this and if you're listening to

908
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 2: US Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google drops, the rating drops, review, download,

909
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 2: and subscribe. Thank you guys for listening, Thanks for watching.

910
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: We'll catch you on the next episode. Peace out, Peace

911
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: that Guyslet's go Met