1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: It's that time time, time, time, luck and load. So 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Michael Verie Show is on the air. 3 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: Doctor Joe Digney is our guest. He's the pastor at 4 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho. He's written eight books, the 5 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: aforementioned Sin of Empathy and now the book Leadership and 6 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 2: Emotional Sabotage. Take us back to why this is necessary? 7 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: What does emotional sabotage have to do with leadership. 8 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 3: Of agitation and angst the turmoil and disruption? Everybody, i think, 9 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 3: feels a sense that no one's in control and that 10 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: things are running all all different ways. And as a result, 11 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: the leaders who have meant to act as the shock 12 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 3: absorbers for society can easily begin to abdicate their responsibility 13 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 3: to steward their institutions. That happens in homes, it happens 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: in churches, it happens in schools, and it happens in nations. 15 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 3: And so in that book, I'm seeking to kind of 16 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: diagnose that problem, what are its roots? Why do we 17 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 3: feel like we're sitting on this powder keg? And then 18 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 3: to offer solutions, what does it mean to be courageous 19 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 3: and sober minded in the midst of this agitation? And 20 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 3: the basic paradigm I offer there is that we live 21 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 3: in a society. 22 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 4: That has become drunk on passions. 23 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 3: Passions, our emotions are immediate and instinctive emotions. When you 24 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 3: see something good, you want it. When you see something scary, 25 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 3: you fear it. When you see something sad, you grieve it. 26 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 3: And our passions, we can become drunk on them, they 27 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: become in the driver's seat. And I instead want to 28 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: argue that one of the core virtues we have to 29 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 3: recover is sober mindedness. We need to be sober, We 30 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 3: need to sober up, which means that we have a 31 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: clarity of mind and that we're stable. We have a 32 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 3: stability in our souls that anchors us when these big 33 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: anxiety storms and social stampedes run across our path, and 34 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 3: we're ready to act. We're ready to lean in. We 35 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 3: don't advocate and are passive, but instead we step up 36 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 3: to the plate and we have the courage to follow 37 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: through and fulfill the responsibilities that God has given to us. 38 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: What has been the reaction of leaders, whether in the church, 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: the corporate world, education, or politics, to this book. Have 40 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 2: there been people who said I didn't recognize I was 41 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: subjected to this. I didn't recognize this was a cancer 42 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: upon me. I disagree with you. What have folks said? 43 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 4: Yeah? 44 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: So this you know you mentioned that I mentioned I've 45 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 3: written about eight books. Leadership and Emotional Sabotage is by 46 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 3: far the best selling. It's it's really struck a nerve 47 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: and it's kind of taken on a life of its own. 48 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: It's surprising to me the places I've I've come across 49 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: that I have I've had I would have no connection 50 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: to otherwise. I'm a I'm a pastor in a small 51 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 3: town and a small Christian school. 52 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 4: This was a book published. 53 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: By a small Christian publisher, and I know that cabinet secretaries, 54 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 3: pastors of megachurches, Uh, you know, colonels and generals in 55 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 3: the military are reading it in order to help them 56 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 3: lead the institutions that they're a part of. 57 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 4: So it's been it's been surprising. 58 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 3: To me the places that this book has been able 59 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 3: to get because I think partly the title is catchy. 60 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 4: Thanks publisher. 61 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 5: Uh. 62 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 3: And it's a short book, It's only one hundred or 63 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: so pages, but it really tries to give a paradigm 64 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 3: shift for how you should lead in the face of 65 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: all of the attempts to steer and sabotage you when 66 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: you seek to be a faithful leader. 67 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: That is very interesting. 68 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: Wow, as you begin a project like this, I'm curious 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: to know your writing process. Is there is there a spark? 70 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: Is this a ministry? Is there an idea? Is is 71 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: it a question? You are often asked by parishioners or 72 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: people buy email? 73 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: And then how do how does that. 74 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: Work from from there to the very difficult task that 75 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: you have done, which is completing the work? 76 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 6: Yeah? 77 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 4: Usually you know. 78 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: So, I'm a teacher, professor by by trade, that's my 79 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 3: main vocation, and so I usually teach them reading things, 80 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: and I'm teaching them in classes and that's where I 81 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: kind of refined my ideas and they also get refined 82 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 3: in sermons and in counseling sessions with parishioners. 83 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 6: Uh. 84 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 3: And so that's where the that all bubbles up. And 85 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 3: eventually there's usually a spark, either a request or in 86 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 3: this case, the publisher said, Hey, would you be interested 87 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 3: in doing some videos for their website for their streaming 88 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: service called Cannon Plus. If you're lead listeners are interested, 89 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 3: it's called Cannon Plus. It's like a kind of a 90 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: combination of Audible and Netflix, but for wholesome Christian family content. 91 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 3: And then they asked I again of Yeah, Canon C A, 92 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 3: N O, N plus P l U S Canon plus 93 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 3: dot com and and they asked if I would do 94 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: a series of basically teachings lessons on things that I'd 95 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: done on leadership, and so I said sure, And so 96 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 3: I put together a series of six lessons. And as 97 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 3: I completed those and delivered them, I realized, you know, 98 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: if I think if I were to fill this out. 99 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 4: I'd have a nice little book, And so I did. 100 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: I added about another ten thousand words or so, and 101 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 3: that became Leadership and Emotional Sabotage. So it's it's usually 102 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 3: that sort of process of coming out of my teaching 103 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 3: and then being refined, and then the spark of the 104 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 3: moment arises when I'm able to actually complete the project. 105 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: What is your time? I asked all authors this, So 106 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 2: what is your time that you write? Is it just 107 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: when it comes to you or do you set usacific time? 108 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 2: And how long is that? I'm always curious everybody has 109 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 2: a different writing process. 110 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 4: Yeah. 111 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 3: Usually I let ideas germinate for a while, and I'll 112 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: usually do a kind of writing retreat. 113 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 4: I'll walk off a few days. 114 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 3: Where I really try to immerse myself and I'll think 115 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: carefully about structure. Sometimes deadlines force things upon me, so 116 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 3: I have a chapter that I need to complete by 117 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 3: a certain time, or a sermon that I need to 118 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 3: complete by a certain day. Sometimes my speaking opportunities give 119 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 3: me opportunity, an opportunity to pull together content to deliver 120 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 3: in a forty five minute window, and that kind of 121 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: forces me to get everything together. So those are all 122 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 3: various ways that I'm kind of forced to pull things 123 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: together in order to deliver them to who needs them. 124 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: Ernest Himingway in talking about because it's such a prolific writer. 125 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 2: His advice to other writers was, every day, say one 126 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: honest thing, make one offer one honest sentence, and if 127 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: you have another honest sentence to add to it, great, 128 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: And as long as you can add an honest sentence. 129 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: To that, you are writing. 130 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: But he was clear that some days there may only 131 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: be one honest sentence. The woman walked into the room 132 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: and sat down and was beheld by all the people. 133 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: Okay, that's it. 134 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: I was curious with your writing process if that tends 135 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: to be in chunks or if that is the discipline, 136 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: Because we all have a book. 137 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: In us right, whether we get it out or not. 138 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: So many people journal Marcus Latrell, Dear Friend of Mine, 139 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: Lone Survivor was based on the fact that, thank goodness, 140 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: since he was eight years old, he'd kept a journal, 141 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: and he. 142 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: Did throughout his ordeal. 143 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: So this was a guy who made it a habit 144 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: to always write, and his writing became a bestseller and 145 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: a big movie and all sorts of things. I'm curious 146 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: about the discipline it takes to complete that process, and 147 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: not just yours, which which has a Christian perspective. We 148 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: all have a story to tell in writing Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit. 149 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: That you know what was about? 150 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 6: Uh? 151 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,559 Speaker 2: The idea that when the books are gone, the knowledge 152 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: is gone and then you can recreate you know, your 153 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: own truth. We'll continue our conversation with doctor Joe Rigney 154 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: don't you call me Hey, don't you call me? 155 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 5: Doctor? 156 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: Joe Disney is our guest. 157 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: Was a fellow of theology at New Saint Andrew's Church 158 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: and he is a an author. 159 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: We talked earlier about his book The. 160 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: Sin of Empathy, which which spoke to me and my 161 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: theory of the naive neighbor. We also talked about his book, 162 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: which is his best seller yet, Leadership and Emotional Savage 163 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: a sabotage, not savage. Leadership and emotional sabotage, something that 164 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: probably speaks to a number of you. His third book 165 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: going backward is Courage How the Gospel Creates Christian Fortitude. 166 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: It feels like. 167 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: Christians today are being slapped around, particularly the very strong 168 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: influence of Islam into previously dominantly Christian nations, and it 169 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: feels that Christians are somewhat cowardly, afraid to stand up. Well, 170 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 2: we've had it so good, and we're from many of us, 171 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 2: we're so white that we don't want to be a 172 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 2: strong Christian. We're ashamed, we don't want to be the oppressor. 173 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: And that's not what my Bible commands me. That's not 174 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: taking up your cross, that is not suffering, that is 175 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: not going there for and preaching and witnessing and sharing 176 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: against the tides and against the shame. It's necessary, it's 177 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: part of the process. So tell me about Courage, How 178 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: the Gospel Creates Christian Fortitude. 179 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that was the book that I was asked 180 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 3: to write because of various sermons that I've given, and 181 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 3: that way, it really is driven by the this reality 182 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 3: that living is Christ and dying is gain. And if 183 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 3: dying is gain, it means you have nothing to fear 184 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 3: and you can just go for it. And the Bible 185 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 3: is filled with these exhortations. Think of the beginning of 186 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 3: the Book of Joshua. Be strong and curatious, courageous. Why 187 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 3: because the Lord your God is with you wherever you go. 188 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 3: So God's presence is meant to be an empowerment for 189 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 3: our own strength and courage as we face the challenges 190 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 3: that are put before us, and we do with In 191 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 3: an age when which people are afraid, in which they're 192 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: cowardice is often it's masked in various ways. No one 193 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 3: wants to admit that they're a coward. It's shameful, but 194 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 3: we can find all sorts of ways to excuse our 195 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 3: cowardice in the name of prudence or wisdom. In fact, 196 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 3: that's all quote the other day where someone says when 197 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: courage is needed, the coward says that what's needed is prudence, 198 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: And I thought, that's that's pretty right. People often use 199 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 3: other good things as excuses to avoid doing hard things, 200 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: and so in that book, I'm simply trying to show 201 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 3: failures of courage. Play is where in the scriptures people 202 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 3: did fear and that courage. Both cowardice and courage are 203 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: are contagious. Which is why it really matters how many 204 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 3: people went along with all sorts of folly over the 205 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: last ten or fifteen years, say in their workplace, and 206 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 3: all it would have taken is one person standing up 207 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: and saying, I don't think this is right. I think 208 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 3: that this is crazy. I think that this is unjust, 209 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 3: and they would have discovered that there were a whole 210 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 3: lot of other people who were thinking that, but we're 211 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 3: afraid to say so. And I think that there's a 212 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: number of churches that discovered this through COVID, whose numbers 213 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 3: swelled as they were willing to resist the kind of 214 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 3: COVID tyranny that came down from a number of states. 215 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 3: And their simple willingness to say, you know what, we're 216 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 3: going to meet it matters, we need to worship God together. 217 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: And their willingness to simply plant a flag and say 218 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: we're going. 219 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 4: To do this despite what the government is saying. 220 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 3: Rallied people to their banner, and whereas churches that compromised 221 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 3: and that we're kind of cowardly and went along with 222 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 3: a lot of folly and a whole post of ways 223 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: have found their numbers swindling. 224 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: We had a pastor on Ramon. 225 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: Do you remember where he was somewhere in Canada, and 226 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: he was something like Albanian, so he had very heavily 227 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: accented English and he kind of yelled when he spoke. 228 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: He was very intense, he was older, and they can't. 229 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: They burst into his church and he started screaming at them, 230 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: and I think he was Jewish, and I think he 231 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: was basically saying, this is what the Nazis did, and 232 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: this is exactly when we're going to stand up to you. 233 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: You're not going to do this, And they didn't know 234 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: what to do right. 235 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: These these officers are real tough until somebody pushes back 236 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: and then they're not. And it was amazing the strength 237 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: of character and conviction this man, and we had him 238 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 2: on multiple times. 239 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: I think he has since died. 240 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: But his point was, my Bible urges me to open 241 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: not despite COVID or not despite COVID. Because of COVID. 242 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: We need the church more now than ever and thought 243 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 2: it was a great point. 244 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 4: Right, that's absolutely right. 245 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 3: And we see this kind of example in the scriptures, 246 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 3: in both in Christ and in. 247 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 4: The Apostle Paul. The Apostle Paul, everywhere. 248 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 3: He went he ran into mobs, he ran into opposition 249 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 3: from the authorities, he ran into persecution, and he never 250 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: shrank from it. He welcomed it, and he saw it 251 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 3: as an opportunity to testify to what God had called 252 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 3: him to testify. And so there's a number of places 253 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 3: in which we see him. For example, at one point 254 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 3: in the Book of Acts, he's just been beaten by 255 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 3: a mob, and then when the cops show up, they 256 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: arrest him for getting beaten, which is how it typically goes, 257 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 3: and as he's being carried off, he actually pauses and 258 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 3: asks the Roman tribute, could I say something to the people. 259 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 3: So here you have a moment in which he's just 260 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: been beaten, he's being taken to jail, and what he's 261 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 3: thinking about is this is an opportunity for me to 262 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 3: address these people, to try to once again testify to 263 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 3: what Christ has done for me. And he gives his testimony, 264 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 3: and he end that testimony that you want. 265 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 4: To kill him again? But the point is that he 266 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 4: took the shot. 267 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 3: He was not afraid because of these circumstances, and it 268 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 3: didn't lead him to shrink back in fear, but instead 269 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 3: he stepped up to the play why because he knew 270 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 3: God is with me, God is for me, and this 271 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 3: is what God has called me to do, and he 272 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 3: will equip me to do it. 273 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: And if God before me, who can be against me? 274 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 2: And once you fully understand that you don't need to 275 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 2: fear anything else, it does not mean they're not going 276 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: to kill you. It does not mean they're not going 277 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 2: to stone you, or that you're not going to suffer, 278 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: but that suffering is sometimes righteous. 279 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: And I believe that in my heart of hearts. 280 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: It's probably why my three heroes growing up were all 281 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 2: killed for their conviction, one of whom was resurrected. But 282 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: I guess that message has always meant a lot to me, 283 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: and it's always meant I respect Trump for the fact 284 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: that no matter the more they push him, the harder 285 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: he comes back. And there are very few people who 286 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: would have done that. Most people would have taken the 287 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: message and gone away. Someone who can stay in the fight, 288 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: I'll tell you that I admire you've had some association 289 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: with Colorado is a masterpiece. Cake guy in Colorado. They 290 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: destroyed that man's business. They bankrupted him all because they 291 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: bake a cake boy. And he said, no, I can't. 292 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: I'll see you next door. I'll pay for the cake, 293 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: I'll do it, but I won't do it. And he 294 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: just stays in there and keeps going, and they keep 295 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: tormenting that poor man. 296 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 3: That's absolutely right, and it's a in his case, it's 297 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 3: not allowed demanding courage. It's a simply quiet resolve to 298 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 3: do what's right. And the reality is that you're going 299 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 3: to fear somebody. 300 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 4: The question is whom. 301 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 3: So it's not that we don't have any fear. It's 302 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 3: that we fear God first, and then when we face 303 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 3: opposition from men, we may even feel some fear. But 304 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 3: one of the things I point out in that book 305 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: is that courage is not the absence of fear, it's 306 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: the mastery of it. The fear may be present and 307 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 3: maybe palpable, you can feel it rising up in your gut. 308 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 3: But what God calls us to do is to trust him, 309 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 3: and by entrusting him to have the fortitude of mind 310 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 3: to subdue our fears and continue to act for the 311 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 3: good that he's called us to, even in the face 312 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 3: of dangers and opposition. And you saw that, You see 313 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: that with Jack Phelps, you see that with a number 314 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 3: of other folks who have not gone looking for a fight. 315 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 3: They're not brawlers, they're not quarrelsome, and they're not looking 316 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 3: to be culture warriors of any sense. He just wanted 317 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 3: to bake his cakes, but God called him to it 318 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 3: by circumstances, and he was willing to be faithful at 319 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 3: his post. 320 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: And you have been faithful as a guest for the truth, 321 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 2: and we have enjoyed having you. 322 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: We will have you back again. Doctor Joe Rigney, you're wonderful. 323 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, sermon. 324 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 7: Doug King of Ding and this other guy, Michael Barry. 325 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 6: These are the kind of guys. 326 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: You're like a smack and air. 327 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: Doug Robinson, no relation to the great Charlie Robinson, at 328 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: least that we know of, is the natural resources founder 329 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 2: and CEO of a company we're about to hear about. 330 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: And it came to our attention because he's friends with 331 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: my dentist, doctor Guy Lewis, who owns Texas Cosmetic Dental, 332 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 2: and he told me you need to watch this interview 333 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 2: on Fox Business with Maria Barbiromo the following morning at 334 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: six am, because I have spoken at length about our 335 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: need to use the most efficient forms of energy that 336 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 2: are available and cost effective, and. 337 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: One of those is nuclear. But people are scared of it. 338 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 2: And he said, I know you'll be interested in it, 339 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: and I'll let you listen to what I heard with Maria, 340 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 2: and you tell me. 341 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 8: Welcome a President Trump prioritizing American energy independence, making one 342 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 8: of his priorities in his first one hundred days, and 343 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 8: support for restoring nuclear energy as well. Fox Visits is 344 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 8: Jeff Flock is live in Abilene, Texas right now with more. 345 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 7: Jeff, all of the above. Maria and I come to 346 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 7: you this morning from the future. I am surrounded by 347 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 7: four feet thick concrete walls. 348 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: This. 349 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 7: You know, we hear a lot about these modular nuclear reactors. 350 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 7: Well you're actually seeing one being built right now. It's 351 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 7: on the campus of Ablene Christian University, and a lot of. 352 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 6: People think this is the future. 353 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 7: They have made tremendous progress, as you see on the 354 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 7: other side of the screen there building this. There's only 355 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 7: two companies that now have a permit to build a 356 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 7: modular next generation nuclear reactor. And we're with a man 357 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 7: behind one of them, Doug Robinson, an unlikely fellows to 358 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 7: be deleting this and that you're a third generation oil man, 359 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 7: but you believe deeply in these small modular nuclear reactors. 360 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 7: Tell me why you're so. 361 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 5: We have a proven technology one built in the sixties. 362 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 5: Small module nuclear is safe, affordable, clean, dispatchable, and we 363 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 5: have a permit from a new Conrogratory commission to construct 364 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 5: our reactor. 365 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 6: And we have a. 366 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 5: Team here that is dedicated to making that happen as 367 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 5: quick clean sponsor. 368 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 7: I want to show on the other side of the 369 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 7: screen again some of the research you're doing right now. 370 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 7: You're getting close and you use molten salt. This is 371 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 7: not a solid fuel reactor. This is a liquid fuel 372 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 7: And tell you about molten salt. How does hell work? 373 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 5: So, if it's a generation for technology, the kulant where 374 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 5: you move the heat from the reactor core to where 375 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 5: you generate electricity, we use molten salt instead of water. 376 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 5: The advantage of that is that we operate at extremely 377 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 5: hot temperatures, which is very valuable. But we operated almost 378 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 5: no pressure because molten salt is not converted to a gas, 379 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 5: so we don't have the pressure to state this interesting or. 380 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 7: Yeah, I want to show you the states now there 381 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 7: are trying to. 382 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: Lead away on this. 383 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 7: You've got more than half of the country now passing laws. 384 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 4: To help you. 385 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 7: Despite that, you're not getting any money, no federal money, 386 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 7: no state money. You're self financing this project. 387 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 5: We have privately financed this project from day one. Now 388 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 5: I did start on with go to rabbits Advanced Nuclear 389 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 5: Working Group that Texas legislature is considering along with other states, 390 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 5: how they can incentivize these businesses, these new industries in 391 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 5: their states. 392 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 6: We'll see what happens here in Texas. 393 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 5: But today we're being one hunder percent of public privately financed. 394 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 7: Worry, before we get away, I just want to show 395 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 7: you one thing. There's only two of these that exists 396 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 7: now in the country. This is the multi salt reactor 397 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 7: approval from the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This could be 398 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 7: the future. A man who spent his career in the 399 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 7: oil industry says nuclear look out for it. 400 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 3: Yeah. 401 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, chat energy is everything, folks, It is everything. Military 402 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: historians will tell you that the single biggest impediment to 403 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: Hitler winning was he ran out of gas. It made 404 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: him do stupid things in Russia. He didn't learn the 405 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 2: lesson that Napoleon Bonaparte before him, that that was a 406 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 2: bad place to go in the winter. Energy is everything 407 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 2: to our quality of life, to our investments, to our transportation, 408 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: to everything. And I am delighted to see a man 409 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 2: with a lifetime in the oil business recognizing, promoting supporting nuclear. 410 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 2: Doug Robinson, thank you for being our guest. Welcome to 411 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: the program, pleasure, Thank you very much for having me. 412 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: So how did you get involved with nuclear? 413 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: How does this end up on your desk? 414 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: And how do you go from because I know the 415 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 2: immediate reaction is I don't know nuclear, I know all. 416 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 5: And that's probably still true to a great extent. There's 417 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 5: a little bit of a history to it. In two 418 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 5: thousand and four, Governor Rick Perry appointed me to the 419 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 5: Texans Energy Planning Council and I chaired the Energy Supply Committee. 420 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 5: So you have to go back twenty plus years. 421 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 6: There was not a climate agenda. 422 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 5: We had all of the energy we needed in the 423 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 5: form of primarily coal had always been the workhorse of 424 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 5: our grid and of course natural gas and oil and 425 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 5: other forms, including nuclear. 426 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 6: But in the. 427 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 5: Context of that work, there were some early claims being 428 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 5: made some of the early wind wind technology being deployed 429 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 5: in Texas that wind was going through place oil and 430 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 5: gas for power. And one of the findings of my 431 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 5: committee was there was really a pushback or a clarification 432 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 5: on that that if if we were going to get 433 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 5: rid of hydrocarbons, and again we're talking primarily about coal 434 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 5: and natural gas for power production, if we were going 435 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 5: to get rid of hydrocarbons, then the only technology, particularly 436 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 5: at the baseload level, that could step in and provide 437 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 5: that power was nuclear. 438 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 6: Now, at the time, my company. 439 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 5: Was developing the hydraulic fracturing technology that revolutionized the permium 440 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 5: basin and then spread to the other shell plates in 441 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 5: the country and ended up making the country energy independent. 442 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 6: So we weren't thinking nuclear, it was it was kind 443 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 6: of a hypothetical argument. 444 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 5: Anyway, fast fast forward, we do have a climate agenda, 445 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 5: and we did see coal and Texas is going to 446 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 5: lose lose a lot of coal generated power in the 447 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 5: coming years just because of the age of our facilities 448 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 5: and we have a growing demand. How are we going 449 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 5: to meet that. So that was the backstory. The way 450 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 5: I directly got involved is I heard about some research 451 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 5: being done to the Avenue Christian University on a technology 452 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 5: that had been demonstrated in the nineteen sixties that could 453 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 5: help meet some of the world's energy well, provide affordable 454 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 5: energy to lift the world out of poverty. Because they've 455 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 5: produced high process, he could desalinate water. Half the world 456 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 5: doesn't have safe drinking water. And because it's liquid fuel, 457 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 5: we have access to medical isotopes that can help image 458 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 5: and even treat in cure cancer. And so I thought, Wow, 459 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 5: these are pretty big things, and so I gave a 460 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 5: three million dollar gift to the university and said, this 461 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 5: is awesome research, please please push it forward. 462 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 6: Well, that attracted the attention. 463 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 5: Of Governor Perry is now Secretary of Energy Pairy under 464 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 5: the first Trump administration, heard about the gift, heard about 465 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 5: the research, sent a team down from the Department of 466 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 5: Energy in. 467 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 6: Twenty eighteen to tour. 468 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 5: The labs the research being done, and their reaction was, 469 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 5: you guys have no idea how important it. 470 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 6: Is you're working on. 471 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: We need you to apply to DC. 472 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 5: So doctor Tale, who was the head of the research 473 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 5: at Avelee Christian, doctor Schubert, the president of ACU, and 474 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 5: myself flu to d C in January of twenty nineteen 475 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 5: and they said, we need to beat China, we need 476 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 5: to beat Russia. The US has to capture this is 477 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 5: critical technology. 478 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 6: We need you to build this reactor. 479 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 5: And I held my hand up and said, okay, I'll 480 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 5: fund it, and Aveline Christian doctor Schubert held his hand 481 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 5: up and said, okay, we'll host it because we're looking 482 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 5: at deploying a research slash demonstration reactor on the Avenue 483 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 5: Christian campus. And so we walked down the hallway. 484 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 6: Doctor Sherbert looked at me and said, Doug, do you 485 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 6: have any idea how we going to do this? And 486 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 6: suss they fail? 487 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: That's how the best laid plans were not plans. 488 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: We just figured out. Hold with me, douglemarchism nation that 489 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: can be defined in a single word. I was going 490 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: to foot him number nine. 491 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 3: Not only was it authentic frontier jibbery, Philix Presto, Courage, the. 492 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: Scene of This Day and the Michael Berry Show. 493 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 2: Nuclear energy, well, we all know about those horrible meltdowns, 494 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 2: we know about Chernobyl and nuclear is so dangerous we 495 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 2: don't want to touch. 496 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: Actually, quite the opposite. 497 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 2: Nuclear is clean and safe, it is efficient, it is 498 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: very effective, and unfortunately it's one of those things that 499 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 2: people have been afraid of pursuing that could make a 500 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 2: world of difference to so many aspects of our lives. 501 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: This issue came to my attention. I've been a. 502 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 2: Proponent of nuclear because I've read a lot about it, 503 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 2: and I've had multiple interviews, some of you've heard them 504 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 2: on our show. We just can't seem to get it 505 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: off the ground because nobody wants to put their name 506 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 2: behind it, because everyone is scared of the of the 507 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 2: negative blowback, not of whether it'll work or not. Doug 508 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: Robinson is not scared. He is the founder and CEO 509 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 2: of Natural or Resources that's natural with no L on 510 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: the end. He's a third generation oil man and he 511 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 2: is our guest. So let's talk, if you would. Let's 512 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 2: talk to sixth graders who don't have a science background 513 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 2: but have a little snap and explain how this process 514 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 2: works in those terms. 515 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 5: Generally vision and not just that someone knows how it 516 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 5: reactor actually functions, which I did not. 517 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 6: Vision happens and when you have a pasion event, you have. 518 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 5: A tremendous amount of heat that's released, and that happens 519 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 5: within the moderator. Chose me crap out that slows the 520 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 5: elements down so that they collide. When they collide, they 521 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 5: split and then they create more elements and that's a heat, 522 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 5: a tremendous amount of heat. So you have to move 523 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 5: that heat from that core, and that's how heat transfer. Fluid, 524 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 5: like your cooling system in your car does, reuse heat 525 00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 5: from the engine blocked. 526 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 6: To the radiator. That's all it's doing. 527 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 5: So you take that heat from the core and you 528 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 5: transfer it to where you generate steam that turns the 529 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 5: turbine that makes electricity. It's a fairly simple process. The 530 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 5: two technologies involved are two aspects. Is what is the 531 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 5: fluid that you're going to remove the heat with a 532 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 5: lot water. The large reactors we are familiar with use water, 533 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 5: and that water flashes the steam at a very low temperature, 534 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 5: which is good for generating power. However, to get efficient, 535 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 5: you have to try to get that water as hot 536 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 5: as you can, which means you deal with extremely high 537 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 5: pressures and that's where the safety factor comes in. That's 538 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 5: what happened at Fukushima Nuclear reactors can't explode like a 539 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 5: nuclear bomb, but they can have a steam explosion because. 540 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 6: Of the high pressure. We don't use water. 541 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 5: We use molten salt, which has our salt melts at 542 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 5: four hundred and fifty degree C and we operated over 543 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 5: six hundred degrees. See, but salt never flashes to steam. 544 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 5: We never go to a gas, so. 545 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 6: We never generate pressure. 546 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 5: So that's the one big difference is why if you're coolant, 547 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 5: our cooling is salt, and so we operated atmosphere pressure, 548 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 5: which means we don't have to worry about the steam release. 549 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 5: And then the other is what form is your fuel? 550 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 5: A solid fueled reactor with again light water reactors, we're 551 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 5: familiar with that, they burn three to five percent of 552 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 5: the fuel in that fuel rod, and when that fuel 553 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 5: rod begins to decay, then you have to pull the 554 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 5: fuel rod because that's your first level of containment. And 555 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 5: now ninety five to ninety seven percent of the fuel 556 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 5: that is still in that fuel rod, still perfectly good fuel, 557 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 5: enters our waste stream and we have to figure out 558 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 5: where are we going to dispose of that fuel for 559 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 5: the next hundred thousand years. And that's a problem People 560 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 5: off identify our salt. Our fuel is melted in the salt, 561 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 5: which is our heat transfer fluid, the same that you 562 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 5: would say, melt sugar in your coffee. Sure, what that 563 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 5: means is we do not generate unspent on nuclear fuel. 564 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 5: We burned one hundred percent of the fuel in the reactor, 565 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 5: and so we don't generate that fuel. 566 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 6: That you have to where we're going to dispose of this. 567 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 5: In fact, molten salt reactors have the ability to take 568 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 5: those existing stockpiles of spent nuclear fuel and again ninety 569 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 5: five ninety seven percent of the good of the fuel 570 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 5: is still there and reutilize that in a molten salt 571 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 5: reactor and ternate into energy or heat. 572 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 6: Or showing that what we're going to do with it. 573 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 2: So in the traditional all patch, that's like taking your 574 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 2: flare and putting that to liquid natural gas or some 575 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 2: other purpose. You're you're basically, uh, you know, the ad 576 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 2: guys and the foody guys will tell you that's like 577 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: the Pewter to the Tutor movement, the whole hog the 578 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: you know that that's using everything right. 579 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 5: That's right, that's right, yeah, And the best way to 580 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 5: understand when you refuil your car, your truck. You don't 581 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 5: empty your gas can and throw the gasoline in. Wait, 582 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 5: you just add new gas to it. Right, Well, that's 583 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 5: what we do about reactor. We never throw the field away. 584 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 5: We just keep adding fuel to it and operating. 585 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 6: So those are the. 586 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 5: Two big differences. Multa soft cooled liquid field reactor. That's 587 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 5: what makes it a generation for reactor, which was built 588 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 5: and demonstrated in the nineteen sixties at oak Ridge National Laboratory. 589 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 5: So it's a proven technology. 590 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: Which interestingly, the Oakridge Boys are famous for. They were 591 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: once the Georgia Cloudhoppers, but they were the house band 592 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 2: for folks that were there working for the United States government. 593 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: Little known fact. This is really interesting. 594 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 2: What are the challenges presumably regulatory but also capital requirements. 595 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 2: Where does this go as a financial vida? I how 596 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 2: do I get in early on the friends and family 597 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 2: early rays? 598 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 6: Well two two. 599 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 5: Questions is the challenge is you identified it exactly? 600 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 6: Regulatory? So part of the project. 601 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 5: In twenty twenty, I was retiring from the only gas 602 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 5: industry I retired. I think it lasted seven months. I 603 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 5: say I retired long enough to buy a bass boat, 604 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 5: but I still haven't gotten any better at fishing because 605 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 5: I decided to do the nuclear mist. 606 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: We'll leave that to build dance. He's already dominated it anyway. 607 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 6: That's right, that's right. 608 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 5: I'll let others have fun doing that. So when we 609 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 5: started in twenty twenty, I formed in the Toural Resources 610 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 5: and we put together I put together in the Toural 611 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 5: Research Alliance, which the knowledge inlectual knowledge about advanced reactor 612 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 5: resides primarily at the universities. So I funded research at 613 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 5: the University of Texas, Texas A and m Georgia Institute 614 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 5: of Technology and Evening Christian University, and put thirty million 615 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 5: dollars from the tour into those universities to do the research, 616 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 5: but really to prepare the application the construction permit for 617 00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 5: the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. 618 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 6: You cannot build a reactor in the United States. 619 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 5: Without a construction permit from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I'm 620 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 5: an only gask guy on how to get the production 621 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 5: as quickly as possible. Let's get that permit. So we 622 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 5: spent we had one hundred and fifty researchers. We spent 623 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 5: two years preparing the permit. We submitted that in August 624 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 5: of twenty to twenty two the NRC docketed, which means 625 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 5: they accepted the permit, and they spent fifteen thousand man 626 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 5: hours reviewing that application up to eighty examiners at the NRC, 627 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 5: which I considered the gold standard of safety in the world. 628 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 5: And then we answered over three hundred questions and we 629 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 5: did that successfully and we received our construction permit in 630 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 5: September of twenty and twenty four. The very first advanced 631 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 5: liquid fuel reactor ever licensed in the United States now 632 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 5: becomes and you also identified it capital and that's where 633 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 5: we are now. We just completed our current capital raids. 634 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,239 Speaker 5: We've done everything that everything we've done so far been 635 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 5: with private funding, and so we're continuing to work with 636 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 5: private funding. 637 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 6: But as we continue to d risk of this project. 638 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 5: Which is part of the responsibility of the tour to 639 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 5: do is to show the financial community, can you get 640 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 5: a permit? 641 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 6: Yes, we've got a permit. Do you know how much 642 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 6: is going to cost? 643 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 5: We have a detailed engineering design, we're entering into the 644 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 5: EBT agreements, we're establishing supply chains and vendors. Yes, we 645 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 5: know how much does it cost to you? And how 646 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 5: you how long it's going to build it? So we're 647 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 5: answering all of those questions, and you get to the 648 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 5: point where you've got it d risked enough where the 649 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 5: financial community says, i'd say the financial community, the institutional 650 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 5: financial committee community says all right, we're ready to invest. 651 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 5: And that's when you build an industry. When you have 652 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 5: that level of money, get the table. 653 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: We would like to have you back to discuss this further. 654 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: As this process progresses. 655 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 2: We wish you the absolute best, not just through your 656 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 2: own investment of time, energy, passion, but this is good 657 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 2: for America. Doug Robinson, a CEO and founder of Natural Resources. 658 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 6: Thank you, sir, great bulth. 659 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 5: You give reflections that is left good. 660 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 1: Thank you, and good night