1 00:00:16,115 --> 00:00:29,395 Speaker 1: Pushkin the Last Archive, a history of Truth. 2 00:00:39,475 --> 00:00:44,515 Speaker 2: In the nineteen fifties, Americans started getting really into exotic birds. 3 00:00:44,955 --> 00:00:48,555 Speaker 3: We sincerely hope this record will be helpful in teaching 4 00:00:48,595 --> 00:00:49,955 Speaker 3: your parakeet to talk. 5 00:00:51,595 --> 00:00:56,355 Speaker 2: Think tiki bars, pink flamingos, Hawaiian shirts, pet parakeets. 6 00:00:57,035 --> 00:01:00,715 Speaker 3: Remember that your bird is an imitator and learns to 7 00:01:00,795 --> 00:01:04,635 Speaker 3: talk by listening to what you say, not only words 8 00:01:04,675 --> 00:01:06,955 Speaker 3: and sounds, but inflection. 9 00:01:07,995 --> 00:01:11,035 Speaker 2: The birds started flooding into the country sold as pets 10 00:01:11,075 --> 00:01:14,075 Speaker 2: from South America to North In the US, they were 11 00:01:14,115 --> 00:01:18,595 Speaker 2: exotic talking birds. In Argentina, they were an agricultural pest, 12 00:01:18,955 --> 00:01:21,395 Speaker 2: so it was a no brainer, no problem. 13 00:01:22,395 --> 00:01:25,635 Speaker 3: During the first year, your bird should learn from fifty 14 00:01:25,675 --> 00:01:30,235 Speaker 3: to one hundred words and phrases. Always be jettle with 15 00:01:30,275 --> 00:01:31,075 Speaker 3: your parakeet. 16 00:01:31,755 --> 00:01:32,395 Speaker 4: He is a. 17 00:01:32,315 --> 00:01:36,795 Speaker 3: Baby, so treat him like one. Don't say hello Peter, 18 00:01:38,195 --> 00:01:40,275 Speaker 3: say hello Peter. 19 00:01:41,275 --> 00:01:44,315 Speaker 2: The parakeet trade really picked up in the nineteen sixties. 20 00:01:44,635 --> 00:01:48,315 Speaker 2: More than sixty thousand parakeets were imported to North America 21 00:01:48,435 --> 00:01:52,115 Speaker 2: in just three years, But a lot of parakeet buyers 22 00:01:52,155 --> 00:01:54,835 Speaker 2: didn't realize just how much personality they were getting with 23 00:01:54,875 --> 00:01:57,555 Speaker 2: these birds. It was funny at first, that they could talk, 24 00:01:57,715 --> 00:02:01,155 Speaker 2: but then kind of annoying, so people started to set 25 00:02:01,155 --> 00:02:05,555 Speaker 2: their birds loose open the window. Goodbye, Peter. It was 26 00:02:05,675 --> 00:02:08,835 Speaker 2: just a few at first, but then more and more 27 00:02:08,955 --> 00:02:13,115 Speaker 2: and more. Supposedly a shipping crate full of parakeets broke 28 00:02:13,195 --> 00:02:16,515 Speaker 2: open at JFK Airport in nineteen sixty nine and unleashed 29 00:02:16,555 --> 00:02:23,075 Speaker 2: a whole bunch into the wild accident fosters. But certainly 30 00:02:23,115 --> 00:02:25,155 Speaker 2: these South American birds couldn't make it through a New 31 00:02:25,275 --> 00:02:28,995 Speaker 2: York City winter. Nobody made much of it until one 32 00:02:29,075 --> 00:02:31,835 Speaker 2: day in nineteen seventy one, a woman went for a 33 00:02:31,835 --> 00:02:34,955 Speaker 2: walk in a park on Long Island. She saw something 34 00:02:35,075 --> 00:02:38,275 Speaker 2: strange in the grass, a spot of bright green. A 35 00:02:38,315 --> 00:02:44,035 Speaker 2: baby parakeet. Wait a parakeet on Long Island. She called 36 00:02:44,075 --> 00:02:46,955 Speaker 2: the American Museum of Natural History and they sent an 37 00:02:47,035 --> 00:02:51,035 Speaker 2: ornithologist out to the scene. He identified the bird monk parakeet. 38 00:02:51,715 --> 00:02:54,675 Speaker 2: Then he looked up and saw twenty five feet above 39 00:02:54,755 --> 00:02:58,755 Speaker 2: him a nest of twigs in a tree. South American 40 00:02:58,755 --> 00:03:11,475 Speaker 2: parakeets were reproducing in New York State. Peter, Welcome to 41 00:03:11,515 --> 00:03:13,835 Speaker 2: the Last Archive, the show about how we know what 42 00:03:13,875 --> 00:03:16,035 Speaker 2: we know, how we used to know things, and why 43 00:03:16,075 --> 00:03:18,755 Speaker 2: it seems sometimes lately as if we don't know anything 44 00:03:18,755 --> 00:03:22,235 Speaker 2: at all. I'm Ben mat of Haffrey today on the 45 00:03:22,275 --> 00:03:26,915 Speaker 2: show Parakeet Panic. When monk parakeets began to reproduce in 46 00:03:26,955 --> 00:03:30,675 Speaker 2: the United States in the nineteen seventies, people freaked out. 47 00:03:31,155 --> 00:03:34,475 Speaker 2: They thought this bird's population would explode and devastate our 48 00:03:34,515 --> 00:03:37,955 Speaker 2: economy and agriculture. But as you have no doubt noticed, 49 00:03:38,075 --> 00:03:41,435 Speaker 2: we do not live in a post parakeet wasteland. So 50 00:03:41,795 --> 00:03:45,235 Speaker 2: why the panic. I'm glad you asked, because I am 51 00:03:45,275 --> 00:03:48,395 Speaker 2: obsessed with these birds, not just because they're hilarious, but 52 00:03:48,715 --> 00:03:51,395 Speaker 2: because they tell a forgotten story about the founding years 53 00:03:51,395 --> 00:03:54,595 Speaker 2: of the environmental movement and raise a big question about 54 00:03:54,635 --> 00:03:57,395 Speaker 2: the human place in the natural world. Are we a 55 00:03:57,435 --> 00:04:06,915 Speaker 2: species like any other or something entirely different. The early 56 00:04:06,995 --> 00:04:10,755 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies saw the first Earth Day of the Environmental 57 00:04:10,795 --> 00:04:14,995 Speaker 2: Protection Agency. These things, and a whole lot more happened 58 00:04:15,035 --> 00:04:17,595 Speaker 2: because people had come to realize that they were destroying 59 00:04:17,595 --> 00:04:22,075 Speaker 2: the planet. There were rivers catching fire litter everywhere, early 60 00:04:22,115 --> 00:04:26,155 Speaker 2: signs that the temperature was rising. So tropical birds living 61 00:04:26,155 --> 00:04:28,155 Speaker 2: in the Big Apple so far away from where they 62 00:04:28,195 --> 00:04:31,475 Speaker 2: were supposed to live, It just seemed not great humans 63 00:04:31,515 --> 00:04:35,275 Speaker 2: playing with nature. Everybody knows the story about DDT and 64 00:04:35,315 --> 00:04:38,275 Speaker 2: the EPA and Earth Day, but only bird nuts like 65 00:04:38,315 --> 00:04:41,555 Speaker 2: myself know the story about the parakeets. It's obviously not 66 00:04:41,675 --> 00:04:44,235 Speaker 2: on the same scale, and yet it's a glimpse of 67 00:04:44,235 --> 00:04:48,355 Speaker 2: something important hidden in that early environmental movement. And also 68 00:04:48,875 --> 00:04:54,275 Speaker 2: it's just really funny. Monk parakeets are about the size 69 00:04:54,275 --> 00:04:57,875 Speaker 2: of mourning doves or your average sidewalk pigeon, except they're 70 00:04:57,875 --> 00:05:01,475 Speaker 2: bright green with blue wingtips, white bellies, and hooked beaks. 71 00:05:02,035 --> 00:05:06,955 Speaker 2: They're impossible to miss. They're beautiful, gregarious, loud, and incredibly obnoxious. 72 00:05:07,555 --> 00:05:10,835 Speaker 2: Like all parrots, they have a special relationship with humans. 73 00:05:11,395 --> 00:05:14,795 Speaker 5: Birds have been transported around the world for one reason 74 00:05:14,835 --> 00:05:17,315 Speaker 5: or another for two and a half thousand years. 75 00:05:17,875 --> 00:05:20,755 Speaker 2: Stephen prut Jones is a professor of ecology at the 76 00:05:20,835 --> 00:05:24,715 Speaker 2: University of Chicago. He's emeritus now, but he spent decades 77 00:05:24,755 --> 00:05:27,995 Speaker 2: of his career studying monk parakeets, especially the ones that 78 00:05:27,995 --> 00:05:31,075 Speaker 2: wound up in cities across the United States. He zoomed 79 00:05:31,115 --> 00:05:34,075 Speaker 2: into our interview from his basement, wearing a red beanie 80 00:05:34,235 --> 00:05:37,675 Speaker 2: like Jacques Cousteau. Jacques Cousteau, but for parakeets. 81 00:05:38,475 --> 00:05:42,915 Speaker 5: The first record of the rose ringed parakeet being taken 82 00:05:42,995 --> 00:05:47,835 Speaker 5: from Africa to Greece was five hundred BC. 83 00:05:48,115 --> 00:05:52,115 Speaker 2: Approximately Parrots, as you may know, can mimic human speech. 84 00:05:52,595 --> 00:05:54,795 Speaker 2: This has been the source of a lot of fascination 85 00:05:54,955 --> 00:05:58,435 Speaker 2: and weirdness for a very long time. Ancient and medieval 86 00:05:58,475 --> 00:06:02,115 Speaker 2: literature is full of parrots being mistaken for humans, parrots 87 00:06:02,115 --> 00:06:05,315 Speaker 2: helping King Arthur find love, or singing the praises of Caesar, 88 00:06:05,795 --> 00:06:09,235 Speaker 2: or engaging in deep conversation with the Pope. One origin 89 00:06:09,315 --> 00:06:12,475 Speaker 2: story about parrots has it that the grandson of Prometheus, 90 00:06:12,595 --> 00:06:15,235 Speaker 2: the guy who created people out of clay, begged the 91 00:06:15,275 --> 00:06:17,595 Speaker 2: gods to take him out of the human world, and 92 00:06:17,675 --> 00:06:20,595 Speaker 2: so they turned him into a bright green bird. The 93 00:06:20,635 --> 00:06:24,595 Speaker 2: first scientific account of a parrot was Aristotle's History of Animals, 94 00:06:24,715 --> 00:06:27,635 Speaker 2: where he described them as human tongued and noted that 95 00:06:27,675 --> 00:06:31,355 Speaker 2: they become even more outrageous after drinking wine. That's kind 96 00:06:31,395 --> 00:06:33,995 Speaker 2: of been the score on parrots ever since. People are 97 00:06:34,115 --> 00:06:38,635 Speaker 2: enchanted by them and then completely annoyed by them. 98 00:06:38,755 --> 00:06:41,155 Speaker 5: So it's been a bit of a roller coaster. And 99 00:06:41,195 --> 00:06:44,435 Speaker 5: in Argentina there was a bounty put on them, and 100 00:06:44,475 --> 00:06:46,395 Speaker 5: you could go out and kill them, and you'd get 101 00:06:46,435 --> 00:06:48,755 Speaker 5: some amount of money for a pair of legs if 102 00:06:48,795 --> 00:06:51,595 Speaker 5: you brought them in. And I was even told that 103 00:06:51,675 --> 00:06:54,475 Speaker 5: if you were a rancher or a farmer in Argentina 104 00:06:54,515 --> 00:06:57,995 Speaker 5: and you had monk parakeets nesting on your property, you 105 00:06:58,075 --> 00:07:00,755 Speaker 5: were required by a lot of kill them. So there 106 00:07:00,795 --> 00:07:03,755 Speaker 5: was a huge effort to control population numbers. 107 00:07:04,515 --> 00:07:07,435 Speaker 2: In parts of South America, monk parakeets were just called 108 00:07:07,635 --> 00:07:11,235 Speaker 2: la plaga the plague, because reportedly they'd eat up all 109 00:07:11,275 --> 00:07:13,595 Speaker 2: the crops and party all the time in their huge nests. 110 00:07:13,995 --> 00:07:16,475 Speaker 2: But they were pretty, and maybe the part about them 111 00:07:16,515 --> 00:07:20,875 Speaker 2: being outrageously destructive and annoying got lost in translation, because, 112 00:07:21,035 --> 00:07:23,835 Speaker 2: like I said, tens of thousands of them were sold 113 00:07:23,835 --> 00:07:26,475 Speaker 2: to Americans who were intrigued for a moment and then 114 00:07:26,555 --> 00:07:30,315 Speaker 2: soon thought what have I done. There's this kind of 115 00:07:30,355 --> 00:07:33,915 Speaker 2: constant push pull between fascination with the bird and sort 116 00:07:33,955 --> 00:07:36,435 Speaker 2: of hatred of the bird, for you know, parroting is 117 00:07:36,475 --> 00:07:39,355 Speaker 2: a negative term, and I know one of the thoughts 118 00:07:39,435 --> 00:07:42,035 Speaker 2: is that pet owners might have been releasing parakeets because 119 00:07:42,035 --> 00:07:45,835 Speaker 2: they're such loud, rambunctious creatures that they didn't know what 120 00:07:45,835 --> 00:07:47,515 Speaker 2: they were getting into when they bought them. 121 00:07:47,995 --> 00:07:50,275 Speaker 5: I'm sure that's the case. If a pair of amongk 122 00:07:50,355 --> 00:07:53,275 Speaker 5: parakeets cost somebody one hundred dollars and it was ruining 123 00:07:53,315 --> 00:07:58,475 Speaker 5: their life because of loud noise and refusing to learn, 124 00:07:58,675 --> 00:08:02,875 Speaker 5: you know, to mimic human speech, that's something else entirely. 125 00:08:03,635 --> 00:08:07,155 Speaker 5: So when these birds were seen around the United States 126 00:08:07,195 --> 00:08:10,955 Speaker 5: in the late sixties, was that they were going to 127 00:08:10,995 --> 00:08:13,715 Speaker 5: become a huge agricultural past. 128 00:08:15,195 --> 00:08:17,795 Speaker 2: By the time the ornithologists who spotted the parakeet and 129 00:08:17,835 --> 00:08:20,315 Speaker 2: nests back in Long Island brought word to New York City, 130 00:08:20,595 --> 00:08:24,155 Speaker 2: the government was already doing its own bird watching. That 131 00:08:24,315 --> 00:08:27,875 Speaker 2: spring May nineteen seventy one, the US Fish and Wildlife 132 00:08:27,955 --> 00:08:29,915 Speaker 2: Service put out a pamphlet. 133 00:08:29,835 --> 00:08:33,715 Speaker 6: Some exotic plants and animals are extensively useful to man. 134 00:08:34,715 --> 00:08:39,635 Speaker 6: Others cause great damage or serious inconvenience. The monk parakeet 135 00:08:39,755 --> 00:08:41,075 Speaker 6: is such a bird. 136 00:08:41,755 --> 00:08:44,915 Speaker 2: This episode draws heavily from a seven hundred and eighty 137 00:08:44,955 --> 00:08:47,515 Speaker 2: three page archival file I found in the New York 138 00:08:47,515 --> 00:08:50,035 Speaker 2: State Archives, which is page for page some of the 139 00:08:50,035 --> 00:08:53,435 Speaker 2: funniest reading I have ever done. But the last archive 140 00:08:53,635 --> 00:08:56,075 Speaker 2: is not a major emotion picture. This is not an 141 00:08:56,195 --> 00:08:59,275 Speaker 2: ensemble cast. So every time you hear this guy. 142 00:08:59,835 --> 00:09:02,955 Speaker 6: Some of these birds have evidently escaped or been liberated. 143 00:09:03,475 --> 00:09:06,595 Speaker 2: It's the voice of the US government, and they're pretty upset. 144 00:09:07,195 --> 00:09:11,755 Speaker 6: If this species should become abundant, serious damage to agricultural 145 00:09:11,875 --> 00:09:15,875 Speaker 6: and orchard crops can be expected. Common sense clearly indicates 146 00:09:15,875 --> 00:09:18,875 Speaker 6: that this potential pest should be eliminated in the wild 147 00:09:19,355 --> 00:09:21,195 Speaker 6: and its further importation. 148 00:09:20,795 --> 00:09:24,955 Speaker 2: Prohibited Code red. This is not the time for your 149 00:09:24,995 --> 00:09:28,875 Speaker 2: frivolous bird watching. The parakeets are spreading and the government 150 00:09:28,955 --> 00:09:32,715 Speaker 2: wants to kill every last one to avert near certain disaster. 151 00:09:33,915 --> 00:09:36,835 Speaker 2: It was like a trailer for an apocalyptic ego thriller. 152 00:09:38,155 --> 00:09:42,795 Speaker 7: In a world where there's no food, where mankind has 153 00:09:42,835 --> 00:09:47,995 Speaker 7: been wiped down by whatever diseased parokeet to carry, the 154 00:09:48,155 --> 00:09:57,035 Speaker 7: last man faces down his greatest enemy, the monk parakeet. 155 00:09:59,955 --> 00:10:05,995 Speaker 5: And rightly or wrongly, that was the initial idea. We 156 00:10:06,035 --> 00:10:08,315 Speaker 5: should go out and remove them all, or we should 157 00:10:08,355 --> 00:10:10,275 Speaker 5: go out and kill them, because we don't want them 158 00:10:10,315 --> 00:10:12,195 Speaker 5: to become another news starling. 159 00:10:12,955 --> 00:10:17,955 Speaker 2: Ah, yes, the starling situation. Starlings are a bird that 160 00:10:18,035 --> 00:10:20,395 Speaker 2: always comes up when people talk about the dangers of 161 00:10:20,435 --> 00:10:25,075 Speaker 2: invasive species. Here's how the story goes. In eighteen ninety, 162 00:10:25,315 --> 00:10:28,995 Speaker 2: a German immigrant named Eugene Sheeflin wanted to bring birds 163 00:10:28,995 --> 00:10:31,555 Speaker 2: from Europe to the New World so other European immigrants 164 00:10:31,595 --> 00:10:34,715 Speaker 2: would feel more at home. Also, he was supposedly a 165 00:10:34,755 --> 00:10:37,155 Speaker 2: shakespeare nut, and he wanted to make it so that 166 00:10:37,315 --> 00:10:40,755 Speaker 2: every bird mentioned in Shakespeare would live in the wild 167 00:10:40,875 --> 00:10:43,555 Speaker 2: in North America. The logic of this is kind of 168 00:10:43,595 --> 00:10:45,755 Speaker 2: hard to follow. Like you drop a bit of your 169 00:10:45,795 --> 00:10:48,675 Speaker 2: sandwich in the park, get mobbed by starlings, and remember 170 00:10:48,715 --> 00:10:52,875 Speaker 2: that you've never read Henry the Fourth. I don't know Eugene. Also, 171 00:10:53,075 --> 00:10:56,675 Speaker 2: there is only one mention of Starling's in all of Shakespeare, 172 00:10:56,835 --> 00:10:59,715 Speaker 2: and not a very important one. But that didn't stop 173 00:10:59,715 --> 00:11:02,635 Speaker 2: Eugene from taking sixty of the birds out to Central 174 00:11:02,675 --> 00:11:05,475 Speaker 2: Park in March of eighteen ninety, where he unleashed them 175 00:11:05,475 --> 00:11:08,395 Speaker 2: into the wild, setting in motion and infestation that has 176 00:11:08,435 --> 00:11:11,995 Speaker 2: since grown to several hundred hundred million birds across the US, 177 00:11:12,395 --> 00:11:16,515 Speaker 2: doing about eight hundred million dollars in agricultural damage per year. 178 00:11:17,595 --> 00:11:21,355 Speaker 2: That was the Starling situation, or so the story goes, 179 00:11:22,395 --> 00:11:25,955 Speaker 2: an example of just how destructive introduced species can be, 180 00:11:26,675 --> 00:11:28,795 Speaker 2: and so when the monk parakeet showed up in the 181 00:11:28,875 --> 00:11:33,155 Speaker 2: United States. In New York, State officials were dead set 182 00:11:33,595 --> 00:11:34,755 Speaker 2: never again. 183 00:11:35,355 --> 00:11:38,795 Speaker 8: Wanted information relating to escaped alien. 184 00:11:39,315 --> 00:11:42,235 Speaker 2: There are even wanted posters if you. 185 00:11:42,315 --> 00:11:45,795 Speaker 8: See this bird, please report your observation. 186 00:11:46,955 --> 00:11:49,635 Speaker 2: In the spring and summer of nineteen seventy two, there 187 00:11:49,715 --> 00:11:52,955 Speaker 2: was a flurry of meetings in New York. The Audubon Society, 188 00:11:53,075 --> 00:11:56,235 Speaker 2: the Museum of Natural History, the Sierra Club, all of 189 00:11:56,235 --> 00:11:59,075 Speaker 2: them got together to pour over what information existed on 190 00:11:59,115 --> 00:12:01,955 Speaker 2: the monk parakeet and rally around the cause of killing 191 00:12:02,035 --> 00:12:04,875 Speaker 2: every last one. They put out an article in the 192 00:12:04,915 --> 00:12:08,515 Speaker 2: July issue of the Conservationist magazine. There were ads in 193 00:12:08,595 --> 00:12:12,395 Speaker 2: newspapers and on the race sounding the alarm asking people 194 00:12:12,435 --> 00:12:14,235 Speaker 2: to write into the state if they'd seen one of 195 00:12:14,235 --> 00:12:17,115 Speaker 2: the birds in the wild. Some people had actually managed 196 00:12:17,115 --> 00:12:19,875 Speaker 2: to catch the birds and wrote wondering if now that 197 00:12:19,995 --> 00:12:22,555 Speaker 2: meant they had to kill them. Here's a letter that 198 00:12:22,635 --> 00:12:24,955 Speaker 2: I found in the state archives from one tri State 199 00:12:25,035 --> 00:12:26,515 Speaker 2: mom in nineteen seventy two. 200 00:12:27,875 --> 00:12:30,115 Speaker 8: In December of seventy two, my son ne died a 201 00:12:30,115 --> 00:12:31,195 Speaker 8: parrot in our backyard. 202 00:12:31,755 --> 00:12:33,675 Speaker 9: At first we thought it was someone's pet because it 203 00:12:33,675 --> 00:12:36,315 Speaker 9: was very cold, below ten, and we were afraid it 204 00:12:36,315 --> 00:12:36,755 Speaker 9: would die. 205 00:12:37,595 --> 00:12:40,115 Speaker 8: However, the parrot lived and it is doing very well. 206 00:12:40,595 --> 00:12:42,515 Speaker 2: We planned to keep the bird for a while anyhow, 207 00:12:42,555 --> 00:12:44,275 Speaker 2: as my son is very interested in him. 208 00:12:44,355 --> 00:12:45,315 Speaker 8: Then he has no trouble. 209 00:12:46,475 --> 00:12:49,395 Speaker 2: I got curious about these stories, and so I tried 210 00:12:49,395 --> 00:12:51,555 Speaker 2: to track some of the families down to see what 211 00:12:51,635 --> 00:12:55,475 Speaker 2: it actually happened with the recaptured birds. 212 00:12:54,715 --> 00:12:58,355 Speaker 10: What the heck was that is? Where did you find it? 213 00:12:59,635 --> 00:13:02,595 Speaker 2: This is the kid from the letter, John Sime, the 214 00:13:02,635 --> 00:13:05,555 Speaker 2: one who needed the parakeet. He's sixty six and living 215 00:13:05,555 --> 00:13:08,275 Speaker 2: in North Carolina. Now, I looked up the address on 216 00:13:08,315 --> 00:13:11,235 Speaker 2: the envelope his mom sent into the archives. Found his brother, 217 00:13:11,475 --> 00:13:16,275 Speaker 2: got John's number and called him up Department of Parakeet Investigations, 218 00:13:16,515 --> 00:13:17,115 Speaker 2: and I was like. 219 00:13:17,115 --> 00:13:19,035 Speaker 10: Wow, that's amazing. There's a parrot in our back gud. 220 00:13:19,595 --> 00:13:21,955 Speaker 10: I just figured he was gonna die because it was 221 00:13:22,115 --> 00:13:24,595 Speaker 10: it was really cold. I said, I got a crabin 222 00:13:24,675 --> 00:13:27,715 Speaker 10: net down the basement. So I went down the basement 223 00:13:27,755 --> 00:13:30,555 Speaker 10: and I got the crabin neet. Oh no, get real 224 00:13:30,595 --> 00:13:34,635 Speaker 10: close to him, and he was a nasty sucker. He 225 00:13:34,835 --> 00:13:37,715 Speaker 10: was trying to bite through the net. If we reached torn. 226 00:13:37,795 --> 00:13:40,835 Speaker 10: He tried to bite it us. I named him Jackson 227 00:13:41,595 --> 00:13:45,515 Speaker 10: because the expression in the seventies was no way Jackson. 228 00:13:46,195 --> 00:13:48,315 Speaker 10: And as I was running after him with the crabinet, 229 00:13:48,355 --> 00:13:50,395 Speaker 10: I said, no way, Jackson. Did you getting away this time? 230 00:13:50,995 --> 00:13:51,235 Speaker 4: Wait? 231 00:13:51,275 --> 00:13:52,155 Speaker 9: What are you I saying? 232 00:13:52,195 --> 00:13:54,075 Speaker 2: I've never heard of saying no way Jackson? 233 00:13:54,275 --> 00:13:56,795 Speaker 10: No way Jackson, which means and that's not going to happen. 234 00:13:57,755 --> 00:14:00,635 Speaker 2: John got the bird inside. Eventually they got a cage 235 00:14:00,675 --> 00:14:03,315 Speaker 2: and some chicken wire for outside, and the bird warmed 236 00:14:03,355 --> 00:14:04,235 Speaker 2: up to them. 237 00:14:04,635 --> 00:14:07,835 Speaker 10: He got to be one of the family. I took 238 00:14:07,835 --> 00:14:09,635 Speaker 10: a cassette tape and made a loop out of it, 239 00:14:09,875 --> 00:14:12,595 Speaker 10: my sister staying Hi, and he learned to say hi. 240 00:14:12,875 --> 00:14:15,555 Speaker 10: But he was You couldn't handle him. If you reached 241 00:14:15,675 --> 00:14:17,395 Speaker 10: in the cage, he was going to try and bite you. 242 00:14:17,915 --> 00:14:21,195 Speaker 10: My dad had an organ in the house and he 243 00:14:21,315 --> 00:14:23,315 Speaker 10: used to play the organ, and when he would play 244 00:14:23,315 --> 00:14:28,355 Speaker 10: the organ, that bird would go absolutely nuts, saying you 245 00:14:28,395 --> 00:14:32,435 Speaker 10: would dance. He would hang upside down. The doorbell would ring, 246 00:14:32,475 --> 00:14:34,635 Speaker 10: and before the dog would start barking, the bird would 247 00:14:34,635 --> 00:14:40,875 Speaker 10: start go. He'd make this real low, gravelly sound. If 248 00:14:40,875 --> 00:14:43,795 Speaker 10: we were messing around in the house and everybody started laughing, 249 00:14:43,835 --> 00:14:46,875 Speaker 10: the bird would laugh like my mom. 250 00:14:47,595 --> 00:14:50,235 Speaker 2: The bird lived with the family for about ten years. 251 00:14:50,555 --> 00:14:54,195 Speaker 2: Sim is pretty sure Jackson actually wasn't among parakeet at all, 252 00:14:54,715 --> 00:14:56,835 Speaker 2: just some other kind of parrot that had gotten out, 253 00:14:56,875 --> 00:14:59,395 Speaker 2: and much the same way as the parakeets did. Someone 254 00:14:59,475 --> 00:15:02,835 Speaker 2: just threw it away. That's why this is to me 255 00:15:03,155 --> 00:15:05,915 Speaker 2: a kind of parable for the problems the environmental movement 256 00:15:06,035 --> 00:15:08,715 Speaker 2: was trying to solve. This was a living creature that 257 00:15:08,755 --> 00:15:11,555 Speaker 2: we treated like track, and then that set in motion 258 00:15:11,755 --> 00:15:13,955 Speaker 2: a whole chain of events that threatened to throw our 259 00:15:13,955 --> 00:15:17,555 Speaker 2: civilization totally out of whack. And then what was our response? 260 00:15:18,315 --> 00:15:22,835 Speaker 2: Kill them all? Officials gathered up the data, they set 261 00:15:22,835 --> 00:15:25,275 Speaker 2: in motion a plan to track down each of the 262 00:15:25,275 --> 00:15:28,395 Speaker 2: birds reported in the letters, all the nests and all 263 00:15:28,435 --> 00:15:31,315 Speaker 2: the good apple eating spots, to prepare for a showdown, 264 00:15:31,795 --> 00:15:35,235 Speaker 2: one big push to kill every last monk parakeet in 265 00:15:35,275 --> 00:15:47,915 Speaker 2: the United States. The hunt begins after the break. In 266 00:15:47,955 --> 00:15:51,595 Speaker 2: April of nineteen seventy three, the campaign to eradicate the 267 00:15:51,675 --> 00:15:56,595 Speaker 2: monk parakeet began. In a front page story The New 268 00:15:56,675 --> 00:15:59,795 Speaker 2: York Times reported that agents of the newly formed Department 269 00:15:59,875 --> 00:16:03,915 Speaker 2: of Environmental Conservation and the US Fish and Wildlife Services 270 00:16:04,035 --> 00:16:07,195 Speaker 2: would move against the birds by means of live trapping, 271 00:16:07,635 --> 00:16:11,675 Speaker 2: use of steel traps, toxic materials to cyanide gas devices 272 00:16:11,715 --> 00:16:16,155 Speaker 2: to electrocute the birds, and caponization, by which they meant neutering. 273 00:16:17,595 --> 00:16:21,635 Speaker 6: The eradication is a large undertake. It indicates that there 274 00:16:21,635 --> 00:16:24,995 Speaker 6: are some four hundred to six hundred monk parakeets in 275 00:16:25,115 --> 00:16:28,555 Speaker 6: New York. It indicates that these birds are located in 276 00:16:28,635 --> 00:16:33,315 Speaker 6: some thirty four known locations in eleven other states. A 277 00:16:33,395 --> 00:16:37,515 Speaker 6: realistic appraisal must recognize that birds conceivably could be existing 278 00:16:37,555 --> 00:16:41,155 Speaker 6: in anywhere from two to probably an excess of ten 279 00:16:41,315 --> 00:16:43,275 Speaker 6: times the number of known locations. 280 00:16:43,715 --> 00:16:45,835 Speaker 2: The time to act was yesterday. 281 00:16:46,435 --> 00:16:50,635 Speaker 6: Tens of thousands of mandays must be rapidly mobilized. It 282 00:16:50,715 --> 00:16:53,675 Speaker 6: must be taken into account that the population at hundreds 283 00:16:53,715 --> 00:16:58,635 Speaker 6: of known and unknown locations will be reproducing, and that 284 00:16:58,715 --> 00:17:03,915 Speaker 6: a doubling of the existing population could be occurring every second, third, 285 00:17:04,395 --> 00:17:05,315 Speaker 6: or fourth year. 286 00:17:07,475 --> 00:17:10,355 Speaker 2: For public relations purposes, they described with they were doing 287 00:17:10,475 --> 00:17:14,755 Speaker 2: as retrieval rather than eradication. The agents, a core crew 288 00:17:14,835 --> 00:17:18,755 Speaker 2: of six with over seventy additional staff available, set out 289 00:17:18,755 --> 00:17:21,035 Speaker 2: into the field to run down the tips and find 290 00:17:21,035 --> 00:17:23,515 Speaker 2: the birds to kill before they spread wildly out of 291 00:17:23,515 --> 00:17:26,915 Speaker 2: control and ate up all our food. Problem was these 292 00:17:26,955 --> 00:17:28,875 Speaker 2: birds are quite intelligent. 293 00:17:28,675 --> 00:17:31,475 Speaker 11: So it's really hard for example, to go out and 294 00:17:32,035 --> 00:17:35,315 Speaker 11: catch birds in the same way, you know, two days 295 00:17:35,355 --> 00:17:37,235 Speaker 11: in a row, two weeks in a row, even two 296 00:17:37,275 --> 00:17:38,115 Speaker 11: months in a row. 297 00:17:38,995 --> 00:17:42,315 Speaker 2: Elizabeth Hobson runs a lab at the University of Cincinnati 298 00:17:42,515 --> 00:17:45,515 Speaker 2: that studies how birds think. She's made a bunch of 299 00:17:45,515 --> 00:17:49,315 Speaker 2: studies of monk parakeets because it turns out they're really 300 00:17:49,355 --> 00:17:51,035 Speaker 2: smart because. 301 00:17:50,755 --> 00:17:53,995 Speaker 11: They've seen a trap and they are onto you. So 302 00:17:54,035 --> 00:17:57,115 Speaker 11: that makes it frustrating, and I think that that translates 303 00:17:57,155 --> 00:18:00,035 Speaker 11: over into you know, it's been really hard to figure 304 00:18:00,075 --> 00:18:01,915 Speaker 11: out how to mark them or put any kind of 305 00:18:01,955 --> 00:18:05,595 Speaker 11: trackers on them, because they're really good at chewing things off. 306 00:18:05,595 --> 00:18:06,635 Speaker 1: They're very destructive. 307 00:18:06,875 --> 00:18:10,035 Speaker 11: So I, for example, tried to radio track them by 308 00:18:10,075 --> 00:18:13,595 Speaker 11: putting a tracker on a steel cable wire around their necks, 309 00:18:13,835 --> 00:18:16,195 Speaker 11: and they were able to chew through the steel cable 310 00:18:16,235 --> 00:18:19,075 Speaker 11: wire and if they can't reach it, their buddy can 311 00:18:19,155 --> 00:18:23,395 Speaker 11: reach it and get it off. So they're continually outsmarting us. 312 00:18:23,435 --> 00:18:26,235 Speaker 11: And in the lab we actually joke that sometimes we 313 00:18:26,275 --> 00:18:29,195 Speaker 11: feel like they're getting together at night and plodding how 314 00:18:29,195 --> 00:18:32,195 Speaker 11: to ruin our experiments. 315 00:18:33,035 --> 00:18:35,555 Speaker 2: The state agents ran into the same kind of problems 316 00:18:35,635 --> 00:18:38,915 Speaker 2: killing the birds as Hobson faced studying them. There is 317 00:18:38,955 --> 00:18:41,595 Speaker 2: this whole network of state agents writing to each other 318 00:18:41,635 --> 00:18:45,675 Speaker 2: about the birds, swapping tips, tracking leads. One agent in 319 00:18:45,755 --> 00:18:48,275 Speaker 2: New Jersey wrote to New York to share a lovingly 320 00:18:48,315 --> 00:18:51,155 Speaker 2: detailed sketch of a complicated trap he'd been noodling on, 321 00:18:51,395 --> 00:18:55,235 Speaker 2: involving a tall pole, several s'mores, and a decoy monk. 322 00:18:55,075 --> 00:19:00,475 Speaker 8: Parakeet bull trap not yet tested. 323 00:19:01,195 --> 00:19:03,595 Speaker 2: The guys in the monk parakeet brain Trust remind me 324 00:19:03,635 --> 00:19:06,475 Speaker 2: of nothing so much as wiley coyote trying to catch 325 00:19:06,595 --> 00:19:09,515 Speaker 2: road runner. It's like they're ordering these traps from the 326 00:19:09,515 --> 00:19:12,555 Speaker 2: Act Corporation, and they keep blowing up in their faces, 327 00:19:12,675 --> 00:19:15,675 Speaker 2: rocketing them into dangling rocks, or sending them hurtling onto 328 00:19:15,715 --> 00:19:16,555 Speaker 2: canyon floors. 329 00:19:18,035 --> 00:19:21,595 Speaker 6: Dear mister Buono, we have received a report of large 330 00:19:21,675 --> 00:19:24,075 Speaker 6: numbers of monk parakeets on Riker's Island. 331 00:19:24,995 --> 00:19:27,475 Speaker 2: Early in the campaign, the guys at HQ got a 332 00:19:27,515 --> 00:19:30,715 Speaker 2: note from an NYC corrections officer at the infamous jail 333 00:19:30,795 --> 00:19:33,955 Speaker 2: on an island in the East River. He said one 334 00:19:34,035 --> 00:19:37,875 Speaker 2: day he was walking around on patrol and noticed inmates 335 00:19:37,915 --> 00:19:40,915 Speaker 2: throwing bread out the window to a hungry parrot. This 336 00:19:40,955 --> 00:19:44,075 Speaker 2: struck him as strange, so he asked around and learned 337 00:19:44,075 --> 00:19:46,875 Speaker 2: from an inmate that there were one hundreds more parakeets 338 00:19:46,875 --> 00:19:50,395 Speaker 2: in an abandoned house on the island. He called for reinforcements. 339 00:19:51,115 --> 00:19:53,235 Speaker 2: It took the boys at HQ about a year to 340 00:19:53,275 --> 00:19:55,435 Speaker 2: get cleared to come to the island, and they got 341 00:19:55,475 --> 00:19:59,635 Speaker 2: there on two conditions, no guns and no women. So 342 00:19:59,875 --> 00:20:02,835 Speaker 2: ten guys from Fish and Wildlife sailed out to the island, 343 00:20:02,875 --> 00:20:05,155 Speaker 2: presumably with a bunch of nets to chase the birds 344 00:20:05,155 --> 00:20:07,715 Speaker 2: around for a bit and work up a sweat. But 345 00:20:08,355 --> 00:20:11,915 Speaker 2: monk parakeets move fout faster than state bureaucracy, so by 346 00:20:11,915 --> 00:20:14,675 Speaker 2: the time they got there, the birds had moved on. 347 00:20:17,995 --> 00:20:20,915 Speaker 2: As the birds reproduced and spread, the state seemed to 348 00:20:20,995 --> 00:20:23,675 Speaker 2: miss the fact that the worst effects they'd predicted weren't 349 00:20:23,675 --> 00:20:27,995 Speaker 2: coming to pass. The parakeet population wasn't exploding, There wasn't 350 00:20:28,035 --> 00:20:31,715 Speaker 2: really any evidence of agricultural damage. There were no parasites 351 00:20:31,835 --> 00:20:34,995 Speaker 2: or diseases found in testing, but there were some complaints 352 00:20:35,035 --> 00:20:38,275 Speaker 2: about the raucousness, the absolute nuisance of these birds. 353 00:20:39,075 --> 00:20:43,035 Speaker 11: It's usually on the ground when they're foraging, and then 354 00:20:43,075 --> 00:20:44,595 Speaker 11: kind of a fight breaks out. 355 00:20:45,195 --> 00:20:48,755 Speaker 2: Elizabeth Hobson again close scientific associate of the monk. 356 00:20:48,635 --> 00:20:54,315 Speaker 12: Parakeets, And they end up kind of almost like those 357 00:20:54,355 --> 00:20:56,795 Speaker 12: old cartoons, right where there's a dust cloud and there's 358 00:20:56,875 --> 00:20:58,915 Speaker 12: dogs and cats and there's a leg sticking out, though 359 00:20:58,915 --> 00:21:01,555 Speaker 12: there's another leg or a foot or something. And then 360 00:21:01,755 --> 00:21:04,315 Speaker 12: what I'll see in the flight pen is that all 361 00:21:04,355 --> 00:21:06,755 Speaker 12: the other birds that are uninvolved to get very excited. 362 00:21:06,795 --> 00:21:08,755 Speaker 11: They fly down to the ground. They come running over 363 00:21:08,875 --> 00:21:11,195 Speaker 11: and you can see them craning the neck to see 364 00:21:11,195 --> 00:21:11,835 Speaker 11: what's going on. 365 00:21:12,315 --> 00:21:13,595 Speaker 12: And then some birds will jump. 366 00:21:13,515 --> 00:21:15,075 Speaker 9: Into the fight, some will jump. 367 00:21:14,875 --> 00:21:17,355 Speaker 11: Back, and then I'll just calm down, I'll go back 368 00:21:17,355 --> 00:21:21,595 Speaker 11: to foraging. So they are a very feisty species. They 369 00:21:21,635 --> 00:21:23,675 Speaker 11: tend to fight a lot, and they seem to be 370 00:21:23,755 --> 00:21:26,075 Speaker 11: throwing a lot of brain power at these. 371 00:21:25,875 --> 00:21:29,195 Speaker 2: Fights, so they're a loud in cartoonish. But that was 372 00:21:29,275 --> 00:21:31,915 Speaker 2: kind of it. But the main government guy behind the 373 00:21:31,915 --> 00:21:35,155 Speaker 2: parakeet campaign couldn't let it go, just kept pushing it. 374 00:21:35,475 --> 00:21:38,155 Speaker 2: The birds they're still out there. We still need to 375 00:21:38,235 --> 00:21:41,315 Speaker 2: kill them all. Even years later, when just about everyone 376 00:21:41,315 --> 00:21:43,675 Speaker 2: else had moved on his boss sent him a letter 377 00:21:43,915 --> 00:21:45,835 Speaker 2: telling him to give it a rest. 378 00:21:46,355 --> 00:21:48,795 Speaker 6: I find it interesting that you have time to write 379 00:21:48,835 --> 00:21:52,475 Speaker 6: me memos on monk parakeets but cannot find the time 380 00:21:52,555 --> 00:21:56,315 Speaker 6: to complete your reports and make progress on the Wildlife 381 00:21:56,355 --> 00:22:00,675 Speaker 6: Disease Manual. The manual was one of the major justifications 382 00:22:00,675 --> 00:22:03,715 Speaker 6: for creation of the position you now occupy. 383 00:22:05,395 --> 00:22:08,235 Speaker 2: It's hard to predict the future, and introduced species can 384 00:22:08,275 --> 00:22:11,675 Speaker 2: absolutely become real problem. This is true for any number 385 00:22:11,675 --> 00:22:15,635 Speaker 2: of species, including some parakeets. It's not a good thing 386 00:22:15,715 --> 00:22:18,675 Speaker 2: that these birds are reproducing in new places. But what 387 00:22:18,715 --> 00:22:21,315 Speaker 2: I'm interested in is how the response seemed to get 388 00:22:21,355 --> 00:22:24,075 Speaker 2: a little outsized. It was like the guys trying to 389 00:22:24,115 --> 00:22:26,755 Speaker 2: eradicate the parakeets at some point when all captain a 390 00:22:26,835 --> 00:22:30,075 Speaker 2: have in the Great White whale. They so overshot the mark. 391 00:22:30,395 --> 00:22:34,675 Speaker 2: And these were smart people, So why what was really 392 00:22:34,755 --> 00:22:39,355 Speaker 2: going on here in New York? You've got the panic 393 00:22:39,435 --> 00:22:43,035 Speaker 2: about monk parakeet population, but elsewhere at the same time, 394 00:22:43,355 --> 00:22:46,315 Speaker 2: what a lot of environmentalists were really worried about was 395 00:22:46,395 --> 00:22:50,235 Speaker 2: human overpopulation. And it turns out that's always been lurking 396 00:22:50,275 --> 00:22:54,315 Speaker 2: in the background of invasive species panics. So let's take 397 00:22:54,395 --> 00:22:58,995 Speaker 2: another look at the starlink situation. A couple of years ago, 398 00:22:59,275 --> 00:23:02,715 Speaker 2: a paper came out in Duke's Journal of Environmental Humanities 399 00:23:02,875 --> 00:23:04,795 Speaker 2: that took a hard look at that story and how 400 00:23:04,835 --> 00:23:08,235 Speaker 2: it emerged over time. To recap the big points, Shakespeare 401 00:23:08,315 --> 00:23:11,115 Speaker 2: nutt starts infestation of birds that does eight hundred million 402 00:23:11,195 --> 00:23:14,595 Speaker 2: dollars in damage a year. The thing is, though, it 403 00:23:14,635 --> 00:23:17,355 Speaker 2: turns out that basically nothing in that sentence is true. 404 00:23:17,875 --> 00:23:21,115 Speaker 2: Eugene Chieflin wasn't the first person to introduce the starlings 405 00:23:21,115 --> 00:23:23,755 Speaker 2: in the US. He wasn't even a Shakespeare nut And 406 00:23:23,795 --> 00:23:26,955 Speaker 2: the eight hundred million dollars in damage, that number comes 407 00:23:26,995 --> 00:23:31,155 Speaker 2: from a study that blames human agricultural practices for the damage, 408 00:23:31,195 --> 00:23:34,835 Speaker 2: not starlings. It just got said once and then everyone 409 00:23:34,875 --> 00:23:38,675 Speaker 2: went around parroting it. That story got told in a 410 00:23:38,675 --> 00:23:42,435 Speaker 2: big way right around when the parakeet eradication campaign was happening. 411 00:23:43,315 --> 00:23:48,915 Speaker 2: Different bird, same story, same moral. Back in the nineteenth century, 412 00:23:49,035 --> 00:23:52,155 Speaker 2: that starling guy was in actuality the chair of something 413 00:23:52,195 --> 00:23:57,795 Speaker 2: called the American Acclimatization Society. Acclimatization societies were influenced by 414 00:23:57,795 --> 00:24:00,995 Speaker 2: the theories of Thomas Malthus, the famous economist who thought 415 00:24:01,075 --> 00:24:04,515 Speaker 2: human population would explode and cause first famine and then 416 00:24:04,595 --> 00:24:09,155 Speaker 2: mass death. The acclimatization people figured introducing exotic species and 417 00:24:09,195 --> 00:24:12,275 Speaker 2: new environment could help save the day, maybe by improving 418 00:24:12,315 --> 00:24:15,635 Speaker 2: domestic agriculture or just being a new thing people could eat. 419 00:24:16,435 --> 00:24:20,035 Speaker 2: They brought zebras and kangaroos to Paris and Chinese sheep 420 00:24:20,115 --> 00:24:24,355 Speaker 2: to London. That was the early history of invasive species, 421 00:24:24,835 --> 00:24:29,395 Speaker 2: intentionally introduced, among other reasons, to feed a human population 422 00:24:29,635 --> 00:24:35,235 Speaker 2: that seemed to be growing out of control. Over the 423 00:24:35,275 --> 00:24:39,235 Speaker 2: course of the twentieth century, ecologists and animal scientists kept 424 00:24:39,275 --> 00:24:43,635 Speaker 2: studying the way animal populations worked booms and busts. They 425 00:24:43,675 --> 00:24:46,475 Speaker 2: wanted to quantify that pattern, which meant you could predict 426 00:24:46,515 --> 00:24:50,195 Speaker 2: it too. The thing is, those ideas didn't stay limited 427 00:24:50,235 --> 00:24:54,915 Speaker 2: to animal scientists. William Vote, an ornithologist, published a hugely 428 00:24:54,995 --> 00:24:58,635 Speaker 2: popular book called Road to Survival in nineteen forty eight, 429 00:24:58,835 --> 00:25:03,155 Speaker 2: warning about human overpopulation, a similar kind of boom bust cycle, 430 00:25:03,355 --> 00:25:06,755 Speaker 2: just with us, not animals. By the early nineteen seventies, 431 00:25:07,195 --> 00:25:11,595 Speaker 2: that idea that human populations works floating like animal populations. 432 00:25:11,955 --> 00:25:15,715 Speaker 2: It was everywhere, not like academic quibbling, but an issue 433 00:25:15,755 --> 00:25:18,675 Speaker 2: discussed in the news and on television, like in this 434 00:25:18,755 --> 00:25:21,515 Speaker 2: interview with the biologist Paul Erlick. 435 00:25:22,275 --> 00:25:25,275 Speaker 7: Doctor Erlick, when did the thought first come to you 436 00:25:25,355 --> 00:25:29,035 Speaker 7: that perhaps our time as mankind and earth was limited? 437 00:25:29,675 --> 00:25:31,635 Speaker 4: Oh, came in nineteen forty nine when I read a 438 00:25:31,675 --> 00:25:33,915 Speaker 4: book by William Vote called Road to Survival. 439 00:25:34,755 --> 00:25:37,795 Speaker 2: Almost twenty years after he read that book, Paul Erlick 440 00:25:37,835 --> 00:25:41,715 Speaker 2: wrote his own incredibly popular book called The Population Bomb. 441 00:25:42,315 --> 00:25:45,475 Speaker 2: He predicted there'd be mass death from starvation because there 442 00:25:45,515 --> 00:25:48,395 Speaker 2: were just too many people. This was not at all 443 00:25:48,435 --> 00:25:50,915 Speaker 2: a fringe idea. Eric went on The Tonight Show with 444 00:25:50,995 --> 00:25:53,275 Speaker 2: Johnny Carson eighteen times. 445 00:25:53,715 --> 00:25:56,035 Speaker 4: The only hope that there is is that we will 446 00:25:56,075 --> 00:25:58,235 Speaker 4: be able, at least in the United States, through the 447 00:25:58,275 --> 00:26:01,435 Speaker 4: political process, to get a government that's courageous enough to say, look, 448 00:26:01,435 --> 00:26:03,875 Speaker 4: we're overpopulated and we have to have population control and 449 00:26:03,915 --> 00:26:04,995 Speaker 4: start moving in that direction. 450 00:26:05,995 --> 00:26:08,355 Speaker 2: He spoke all over the world. He was one of 451 00:26:08,395 --> 00:26:11,075 Speaker 2: eight people on the steering for the first Earth Day 452 00:26:11,075 --> 00:26:14,675 Speaker 2: in April nineteen seventy, and human population growth was a 453 00:26:14,715 --> 00:26:18,115 Speaker 2: major concern of the event. That activism led to a 454 00:26:18,115 --> 00:26:21,915 Speaker 2: bunch of influential environmental laws. But Earth Day also came 455 00:26:22,155 --> 00:26:25,155 Speaker 2: just two months before the first National Congress on Optimum 456 00:26:25,155 --> 00:26:29,555 Speaker 2: Population and Environment. That same year, six months after Earth Day, 457 00:26:30,115 --> 00:26:34,075 Speaker 2: Congress created the Office of Population Affairs to work on 458 00:26:34,195 --> 00:26:38,395 Speaker 2: human population control in the United States. And in nineteen 459 00:26:38,515 --> 00:26:41,755 Speaker 2: seventy two, the year the panic about the monk parakeet 460 00:26:41,835 --> 00:26:44,395 Speaker 2: was heating up, one of the best selling books in 461 00:26:44,435 --> 00:26:48,635 Speaker 2: the world was called The Limits to Growth, another thing 462 00:26:48,635 --> 00:26:52,155 Speaker 2: about uncontrolled growth. It was a huge media moment. The 463 00:26:52,195 --> 00:26:54,235 Speaker 2: tape I'm about to play you is from a spooky 464 00:26:54,235 --> 00:26:57,195 Speaker 2: documentary made about it. It's like every stock image of 465 00:26:57,195 --> 00:27:00,835 Speaker 2: a smokestack, traffic jam, or smoggy city scape. This movie's 466 00:27:00,835 --> 00:27:01,155 Speaker 2: got it. 467 00:27:02,235 --> 00:27:04,835 Speaker 3: Our riches and our numbers burdened the world. 468 00:27:14,395 --> 00:27:17,515 Speaker 2: Limits was a huge deal. It was a scientific report 469 00:27:17,675 --> 00:27:22,035 Speaker 2: issued by a mysterious organization of academics, statesmen, and businessmen. 470 00:27:22,795 --> 00:27:25,715 Speaker 2: They worked with a supercomputer at MIT that ran a 471 00:27:25,755 --> 00:27:28,955 Speaker 2: program tracking major trends in five key aspects of the 472 00:27:28,955 --> 00:27:37,035 Speaker 2: global economy, natural resources, agriculture, pollution, industrialization, and human population. 473 00:27:37,715 --> 00:27:41,195 Speaker 2: They laid out the base case in the documentary. They 474 00:27:41,275 --> 00:27:41,635 Speaker 2: used the. 475 00:27:41,555 --> 00:27:44,635 Speaker 3: Computer to see what would happen if man successfully tackled 476 00:27:44,635 --> 00:27:45,915 Speaker 3: his obvious problems. 477 00:27:46,395 --> 00:27:48,875 Speaker 6: But first they ran the computer to see what direction 478 00:27:48,995 --> 00:27:51,275 Speaker 6: the world would take if it ran its present course. 479 00:27:52,315 --> 00:27:57,635 Speaker 2: The prediction nothing good. Population grows and so does agriculture 480 00:27:57,675 --> 00:28:01,195 Speaker 2: in industry, but then that big population uses up all 481 00:28:01,195 --> 00:28:05,715 Speaker 2: the resources, and without resources, industry collapses, which leads to 482 00:28:05,755 --> 00:28:08,395 Speaker 2: a kind of doom loop within farming and then food, 483 00:28:08,715 --> 00:28:12,435 Speaker 2: so everybody dies off. If you've ever played SimCity or 484 00:28:12,515 --> 00:28:15,755 Speaker 2: roller coaster Tycoon, the Limits to Growth is basically that 485 00:28:15,875 --> 00:28:18,395 Speaker 2: feeling when the doom loop starts and all you can 486 00:28:18,435 --> 00:28:20,955 Speaker 2: do is watch your city or your roller coaster go 487 00:28:21,075 --> 00:28:26,035 Speaker 2: careening off the tracks. Now, unfortunately for them, in nearly 488 00:28:26,075 --> 00:28:30,875 Speaker 2: all their models, civilization just kept collapsing. Not great. Also, 489 00:28:31,075 --> 00:28:33,795 Speaker 2: The Limits to Growth was outsold in nineteen seventy two 490 00:28:34,035 --> 00:28:37,835 Speaker 2: by a book called The Joy of Sex, which kind 491 00:28:37,835 --> 00:28:40,555 Speaker 2: of sums the whole thing up. By the next year, 492 00:28:40,715 --> 00:28:44,595 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, a movie called Soilent Green was in theaters, 493 00:28:44,995 --> 00:28:48,515 Speaker 2: and it literally opens with the documentary montage of overpopulation 494 00:28:48,635 --> 00:28:51,555 Speaker 2: and pollution, and then it gives a log line the 495 00:28:51,675 --> 00:28:56,595 Speaker 2: year twenty twenty two, the place New York City, the 496 00:28:56,635 --> 00:29:01,715 Speaker 2: population forty million people. There isn't enough food for everyone, 497 00:29:01,955 --> 00:29:04,915 Speaker 2: so they're reading these cracker things called Soilent Green. 498 00:29:05,475 --> 00:29:07,795 Speaker 6: A new delicious soilent green. 499 00:29:08,555 --> 00:29:11,795 Speaker 12: The miracle food of high energy is plankton gathered from 500 00:29:11,875 --> 00:29:12,955 Speaker 12: the oceans of the work. 501 00:29:14,995 --> 00:29:19,115 Speaker 2: Now, no spoilers, but soilent green is not made of plankton, 502 00:29:19,395 --> 00:29:23,395 Speaker 2: and it has a lot to do with the overpopulation problem. Okay, fine, 503 00:29:23,515 --> 00:29:24,275 Speaker 2: here's a spoiler. 504 00:29:25,075 --> 00:29:27,075 Speaker 8: Silent breed is paper. 505 00:29:29,355 --> 00:29:33,795 Speaker 2: So all this is the backdrop to the parakeet retrieval campaign, 506 00:29:34,355 --> 00:29:36,635 Speaker 2: and I actually think this was a really damaging thing 507 00:29:36,675 --> 00:29:40,155 Speaker 2: for the environmental movement. Too many people is not the problem. 508 00:29:40,715 --> 00:29:43,475 Speaker 2: The problem is the system. Those people work within, the 509 00:29:43,515 --> 00:29:46,595 Speaker 2: polluting tools they're given, what big companies do with the 510 00:29:46,635 --> 00:29:50,995 Speaker 2: money those people spend. But the population control evangelists and 511 00:29:51,035 --> 00:29:54,795 Speaker 2: the environmental movement came together right at that same parakeet 512 00:29:54,835 --> 00:29:58,635 Speaker 2: moment in the nineteen seventies. The fear about the parakeets, 513 00:29:58,955 --> 00:30:02,515 Speaker 2: it was just another fear about uncontrolled population growth, like 514 00:30:02,635 --> 00:30:05,995 Speaker 2: soilent green or the limits to growth, just for parakeets, 515 00:30:06,355 --> 00:30:09,315 Speaker 2: the bird that takes whatever we say and repeats it 516 00:30:09,515 --> 00:30:10,155 Speaker 2: right back. 517 00:30:13,275 --> 00:30:13,995 Speaker 1: I sheltered. 518 00:30:15,035 --> 00:30:16,115 Speaker 8: I still time too. 519 00:30:18,555 --> 00:30:22,395 Speaker 2: The retrieval program began to wind down in nineteen seventy four. 520 00:30:22,915 --> 00:30:26,395 Speaker 2: Mission accomplished the birds in New York State, seemed to 521 00:30:26,395 --> 00:30:29,435 Speaker 2: be almost entirely wiped out. Some of the officials took 522 00:30:29,435 --> 00:30:31,755 Speaker 2: a victory lap wrote up a draft of a paper 523 00:30:31,835 --> 00:30:34,635 Speaker 2: about how they'd killed off the invasive population for a 524 00:30:34,715 --> 00:30:36,435 Speaker 2: conference in New Jersey. 525 00:30:36,715 --> 00:30:40,315 Speaker 6: Today, with the exception of an estimated nine to ten 526 00:30:40,395 --> 00:30:41,315 Speaker 6: birds at large. 527 00:30:41,955 --> 00:30:44,475 Speaker 8: This problem has been solved. 528 00:30:45,595 --> 00:30:49,395 Speaker 6: If this species becomes established in this country, it will 529 00:30:49,435 --> 00:30:51,275 Speaker 6: not be from New York. 530 00:30:51,155 --> 00:30:55,075 Speaker 2: Stock On that draft in the state archives you can 531 00:30:55,115 --> 00:30:59,355 Speaker 2: see penciled in notes from another state official after nine 532 00:30:59,355 --> 00:31:02,675 Speaker 2: to ten birds at large, he wrote, which we also 533 00:31:02,795 --> 00:31:06,515 Speaker 2: intend to get and to the sentence this problem has 534 00:31:06,595 --> 00:31:09,115 Speaker 2: been solved, they added one word. 535 00:31:10,235 --> 00:31:25,795 Speaker 9: Apparently, my function is sort of like the pr guy 536 00:31:25,795 --> 00:31:28,075 Speaker 9: for the pirates, because there is a lot of negative 537 00:31:28,235 --> 00:31:32,675 Speaker 9: press about them. They're invasive, they hate robins, they're messy, 538 00:31:32,875 --> 00:31:34,355 Speaker 9: they they don't respect us and. 539 00:31:34,355 --> 00:31:35,195 Speaker 2: All they hate robins. 540 00:31:35,555 --> 00:31:39,115 Speaker 9: No, no, that's a lie, this is propaganda. 541 00:31:40,635 --> 00:31:43,555 Speaker 2: A couple weeks before Christmas twenty twenty two, I went 542 00:31:43,595 --> 00:31:46,195 Speaker 2: to the largest cemetery in Brooklyn with a man named 543 00:31:46,195 --> 00:31:50,075 Speaker 2: Steve Baldwin. He runs a website called Brooklyn Parrots, and 544 00:31:50,155 --> 00:31:52,515 Speaker 2: we were there to see the Brooklyn parakeets and to 545 00:31:52,595 --> 00:31:55,675 Speaker 2: talk about how he became the parrot pr Guy. It 546 00:31:55,755 --> 00:31:59,475 Speaker 2: was almost exactly fifty years after the eradication campaign began, 547 00:31:59,995 --> 00:32:02,915 Speaker 2: and the birds, who are supposedly all dead, about forty 548 00:32:02,915 --> 00:32:05,955 Speaker 2: of their descendants were living in one massive nest in 549 00:32:05,995 --> 00:32:08,955 Speaker 2: the cemetery, in the most ostentatious part of the place 550 00:32:10,315 --> 00:32:13,475 Speaker 2: of the main gate. I asked Steve how he'd become 551 00:32:13,515 --> 00:32:15,795 Speaker 2: a bird guy, and he told me a story from 552 00:32:15,835 --> 00:32:18,435 Speaker 2: about twenty years earlier, when he was out of work 553 00:32:18,835 --> 00:32:21,715 Speaker 2: living at his mother in law's place in Yonkers. One 554 00:32:21,795 --> 00:32:24,275 Speaker 2: day he was walking in Central Park with his daughter, 555 00:32:24,675 --> 00:32:28,355 Speaker 2: and then he heard a group of people in the distance, and. 556 00:32:28,435 --> 00:32:30,795 Speaker 9: They were chanting a bunch of things, but I remember 557 00:32:30,795 --> 00:32:34,155 Speaker 9: hearing they were chanting all together, bring back the nest, 558 00:32:34,795 --> 00:32:39,075 Speaker 9: Bring back the nest, Bring back What is this? 559 00:32:39,155 --> 00:32:39,835 Speaker 10: I have to know? 560 00:32:40,555 --> 00:32:43,275 Speaker 2: The group was protesting the eviction of a hawk named 561 00:32:43,395 --> 00:32:46,635 Speaker 2: Pale Male. He'd made a nest on a fancy apartment 562 00:32:46,675 --> 00:32:49,715 Speaker 2: building by Central Park. The building had destroyed it, and 563 00:32:49,755 --> 00:32:52,715 Speaker 2: now there were protesters holding vigil in the park. There's 564 00:32:52,755 --> 00:32:55,635 Speaker 2: a term in birding that I love, spark bird, the 565 00:32:55,635 --> 00:32:58,235 Speaker 2: bird that gets you into birds. For me, it was 566 00:32:58,275 --> 00:33:00,715 Speaker 2: a mourning dove who'd roost on our fire escape every 567 00:33:00,755 --> 00:33:03,835 Speaker 2: morning during the first month of the pandemic. For Steve, 568 00:33:04,355 --> 00:33:05,595 Speaker 2: it was that celebrity hawk. 569 00:33:06,195 --> 00:33:07,315 Speaker 5: I mean, I joined the group. 570 00:33:07,355 --> 00:33:09,235 Speaker 9: I came by as much as I could. I had 571 00:33:09,275 --> 00:33:11,835 Speaker 9: like a little crummy temporary job, but I come up 572 00:33:11,915 --> 00:33:14,075 Speaker 9: after work and we chant through the night. It's one 573 00:33:14,075 --> 00:33:16,195 Speaker 9: of the reasons why I left Yonkers, because my mother 574 00:33:16,235 --> 00:33:18,755 Speaker 9: in law saw me on television and said, what the 575 00:33:18,755 --> 00:33:20,115 Speaker 9: hell are you doing with your life? 576 00:33:21,355 --> 00:33:23,555 Speaker 2: He got kicked out, but it was a blessing in 577 00:33:23,595 --> 00:33:27,475 Speaker 2: disguise because Steve, a lifelong New Yorker, had finally found 578 00:33:27,475 --> 00:33:31,555 Speaker 2: his people. He became a bird guy. But after Pale Mail, 579 00:33:31,755 --> 00:33:34,675 Speaker 2: he was looking for another cause. That's when he heard 580 00:33:34,835 --> 00:33:37,995 Speaker 2: about a colony of much malign parakeets living in the 581 00:33:38,035 --> 00:33:40,275 Speaker 2: old soccer field of Brooklyn College. 582 00:33:40,675 --> 00:33:44,035 Speaker 9: And I thought, my goodness, this is strange. And I 583 00:33:44,075 --> 00:33:46,435 Speaker 9: went out there and I was blown away. It's not 584 00:33:46,475 --> 00:33:49,155 Speaker 9: only were there like I thought there might be a handful, 585 00:33:49,435 --> 00:33:50,795 Speaker 9: but there was like a community. 586 00:33:50,955 --> 00:33:52,795 Speaker 2: There were about hundred of them, one hundred words. 587 00:33:52,915 --> 00:33:54,955 Speaker 9: And I said, my God, and I remember, this is 588 00:33:55,035 --> 00:34:00,435 Speaker 9: the transcendental moment. I was out there on the old 589 00:34:00,555 --> 00:34:03,355 Speaker 9: soccer field and I was looking up and the birds 590 00:34:03,395 --> 00:34:06,355 Speaker 9: were all around, and then I could hear the bells 591 00:34:06,475 --> 00:34:09,155 Speaker 9: and I could hear the squawking. I said, this is 592 00:34:09,155 --> 00:34:13,675 Speaker 9: this profound moment of synchronicity in my life, and perhaps. 593 00:34:13,395 --> 00:34:14,355 Speaker 10: I'veound my calling. 594 00:34:18,035 --> 00:34:21,875 Speaker 2: Steve moved to Brooklyn bought a web domain Brooklyn parrots 595 00:34:21,915 --> 00:34:25,795 Speaker 2: dot com. He calls himself the parakeet pr guy because 596 00:34:25,875 --> 00:34:29,075 Speaker 2: after the eradication campaign, the birds had a bad rap. 597 00:34:29,795 --> 00:34:32,355 Speaker 2: They'd reached an uneasy truce with the state and we're 598 00:34:32,395 --> 00:34:35,715 Speaker 2: living mainly in nests in Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn College. 599 00:34:36,315 --> 00:34:39,195 Speaker 2: But even though they'd been reproducing in New York for generations, 600 00:34:39,435 --> 00:34:43,035 Speaker 2: they were still thought of as alien invasive. So Steve 601 00:34:43,115 --> 00:34:46,155 Speaker 2: started posting photos of the birds, writing about their comings 602 00:34:46,195 --> 00:34:50,035 Speaker 2: and goings. As interest grew, he started doing monthly parrot 603 00:34:50,035 --> 00:34:53,875 Speaker 2: safaris around Brooklyn, taking people to see the nests. He 604 00:34:53,915 --> 00:34:57,515 Speaker 2: did it for nearly fifteen years until COVID, and even 605 00:34:57,515 --> 00:34:59,235 Speaker 2: then he's still out there all the time. 606 00:35:00,515 --> 00:35:02,595 Speaker 9: You can imagine if you're listening to this or as 607 00:35:02,635 --> 00:35:06,955 Speaker 9: we can see right now, this is a very beautiful 608 00:35:09,555 --> 00:35:12,955 Speaker 9: gay made out of brown stone. It's probably about seventy 609 00:35:12,995 --> 00:35:15,395 Speaker 9: five feet tall. I'm not sure exactly how tall it is. 610 00:35:15,395 --> 00:35:16,595 Speaker 9: But at the top of it you can see that 611 00:35:16,715 --> 00:35:19,595 Speaker 9: looks like it's covered with a kind of a Yeah, it's. 612 00:35:19,515 --> 00:35:21,555 Speaker 2: Just like a sort of like growth of twigs. 613 00:35:21,675 --> 00:35:24,875 Speaker 9: Yeah, it looks almost like a beard that's on top 614 00:35:24,955 --> 00:35:27,915 Speaker 9: of this structure, and we're. 615 00:35:27,835 --> 00:35:29,195 Speaker 2: Like a tupe, like a bad tupeg. 616 00:35:29,555 --> 00:35:33,515 Speaker 9: Yeah. Yeah. And of course that that mass is composed 617 00:35:33,555 --> 00:35:37,075 Speaker 9: of thousands and thousands of individually placed twigs that were 618 00:35:37,115 --> 00:35:40,235 Speaker 9: gathered from the trees in this immediate area and brought 619 00:35:40,315 --> 00:35:45,475 Speaker 9: up individually by by the wild parrots. Other birds build nests, 620 00:35:45,555 --> 00:35:50,315 Speaker 9: they they're not really very well crafted. The mont parakeet 621 00:35:50,395 --> 00:35:52,315 Speaker 9: builds a nest that is exquisitely. 622 00:35:52,715 --> 00:35:54,555 Speaker 2: This thing we're looking at is just elaborate. 623 00:35:54,595 --> 00:35:58,435 Speaker 9: I mean, it's impressive. And although we can't see them 624 00:35:58,515 --> 00:36:00,595 Speaker 9: right now, they're not working. They're not working on the 625 00:36:00,675 --> 00:36:02,955 Speaker 9: nest right now. But when they are working on the nest, 626 00:36:02,995 --> 00:36:06,915 Speaker 9: they seem to be almost obsessive about getting everything right. 627 00:36:08,475 --> 00:36:10,995 Speaker 2: These birds were all descend from the birds brought into 628 00:36:11,035 --> 00:36:13,635 Speaker 2: the country as pets, and now they were living free 629 00:36:13,635 --> 00:36:16,315 Speaker 2: in the city in a colony with little apartments for 630 00:36:16,355 --> 00:36:19,915 Speaker 2: each bird. If you talk to scientists about the parakeets. 631 00:36:20,195 --> 00:36:22,715 Speaker 2: They'll tell you it's hard to generalize between the different 632 00:36:22,755 --> 00:36:26,835 Speaker 2: populations in different places, and between captive and wild, because 633 00:36:26,875 --> 00:36:30,195 Speaker 2: these birds are smart and adaptive. So Steve seemed to 634 00:36:30,275 --> 00:36:31,955 Speaker 2: me like the right guy to ask about how the 635 00:36:31,995 --> 00:36:34,635 Speaker 2: New York birds acted, not only because he gives that 636 00:36:34,715 --> 00:36:38,315 Speaker 2: parakeet safari, but also because he'll tell you he identifies 637 00:36:38,315 --> 00:36:41,395 Speaker 2: with the parakeets. I noticed as he spoke he kept 638 00:36:41,395 --> 00:36:43,315 Speaker 2: looking at me out of the corner of his eye, 639 00:36:43,475 --> 00:36:46,035 Speaker 2: kind of like a parakeet, just in a black windbreaker 640 00:36:46,075 --> 00:36:46,835 Speaker 2: and cap. 641 00:36:48,955 --> 00:36:51,475 Speaker 1: Ah wait, I hear the call of the wild. 642 00:36:54,035 --> 00:36:55,835 Speaker 2: It should be noted that, as you said that, we're 643 00:36:55,875 --> 00:36:58,675 Speaker 2: in a freezing cold cemetery with nobody around. 644 00:36:58,795 --> 00:37:02,835 Speaker 9: Yes, yes, up, they go, two of them going off, 645 00:37:02,875 --> 00:37:06,795 Speaker 9: the dynamic duo heading off to the east. Who knows 646 00:37:06,795 --> 00:37:08,475 Speaker 9: what they're up to, but let's see, they're sort of 647 00:37:08,595 --> 00:37:09,515 Speaker 9: circling around. 648 00:37:09,795 --> 00:37:11,555 Speaker 2: It looks like one of them maybe chasing the other. 649 00:37:14,795 --> 00:37:17,835 Speaker 2: When the cemetery was built in the nineteenth century, there 650 00:37:17,915 --> 00:37:20,955 Speaker 2: was a native parakeet living in the United States, the 651 00:37:20,995 --> 00:37:25,115 Speaker 2: Carolina parakeet. People talk about how introduced species can cause 652 00:37:25,195 --> 00:37:29,035 Speaker 2: native species to go extinct, and that's true, but that's 653 00:37:29,035 --> 00:37:31,595 Speaker 2: also just another way of saying that people drove that 654 00:37:31,635 --> 00:37:35,795 Speaker 2: species extinct. The Carolina parakeet went extinct in the early 655 00:37:35,835 --> 00:37:39,115 Speaker 2: twentieth century in part because people hunted it for its feathers, 656 00:37:39,235 --> 00:37:42,875 Speaker 2: which were popular in hats. Baldwin thinks there's an ecological 657 00:37:42,995 --> 00:37:45,475 Speaker 2: niche left for the monk parakeet because of the killed 658 00:37:45,475 --> 00:37:49,715 Speaker 2: off Carolina one. This is just a strange opportunity to 659 00:37:49,835 --> 00:37:53,315 Speaker 2: right or wrong. Most people in New York have no 660 00:37:53,395 --> 00:37:55,515 Speaker 2: clue that there are parakeets living in the wild here. 661 00:37:55,835 --> 00:37:59,795 Speaker 2: Because the population grew at a reasonable rate. Monk parakeets 662 00:37:59,835 --> 00:38:02,875 Speaker 2: have become the second most widespread parrot in the world, 663 00:38:02,995 --> 00:38:05,035 Speaker 2: and they do cause problems for some people in some 664 00:38:05,155 --> 00:38:08,755 Speaker 2: places Florida, especially because they like to nest in utility 665 00:38:08,795 --> 00:38:12,315 Speaker 2: poles and that can cause power outages. But in terms 666 00:38:12,315 --> 00:38:16,195 Speaker 2: of those initial worries hordes of parakeets marauding across the country, 667 00:38:16,315 --> 00:38:20,555 Speaker 2: decimating our food supply, it just never happened. It's just 668 00:38:20,675 --> 00:38:24,275 Speaker 2: like that spark bird. It's not about the parakeets. It 669 00:38:24,355 --> 00:38:27,755 Speaker 2: was never about the parakeets. It's just that they're the 670 00:38:27,795 --> 00:38:30,395 Speaker 2: thing we notice when the problems people have set in 671 00:38:30,475 --> 00:38:43,555 Speaker 2: motion come home to Roost. The Last Archive is written 672 00:38:43,555 --> 00:38:47,475 Speaker 2: and hosted by Me Ben Nattaphaffrey. It's produced by me 673 00:38:47,595 --> 00:38:51,675 Speaker 2: and Lucy Sullivan and edited by Sophie Crane. Jake Gorsky 674 00:38:51,755 --> 00:38:56,075 Speaker 2: is our engineer. Sound design by Jake Gorsky and Lucy Sullivan. 675 00:38:57,035 --> 00:39:00,395 Speaker 2: Fact checking on this episode by Arthur Gomperts. Our fool 676 00:39:00,395 --> 00:39:04,195 Speaker 2: Proof players are Becca A. Lewis and Robert Ricotta. Our 677 00:39:04,235 --> 00:39:08,235 Speaker 2: executive producers are Sophie Crane and Jill Lapour. Thanks also 678 00:39:08,315 --> 00:39:12,955 Speaker 2: to Julia Barton Pushkin Executive Editor. Original music by Matthias 679 00:39:12,995 --> 00:39:16,555 Speaker 2: Bossi and John Evans of stell Wagon Symphonet. Many of 680 00:39:16,555 --> 00:39:18,915 Speaker 2: our sound effects are from Harry Janette Junior in the 681 00:39:18,915 --> 00:39:23,555 Speaker 2: Stargenette Foundation Special Thanks to Dove Sachs, Grace Smith Vedare, 682 00:39:23,835 --> 00:39:27,915 Speaker 2: and the New York State Archives. For a bibliography, further reading, 683 00:39:27,995 --> 00:39:30,555 Speaker 2: and a transcript and teaching guide to this episode, head 684 00:39:30,635 --> 00:39:33,675 Speaker 2: to the Last Archive dot com. The Last Archive is 685 00:39:33,715 --> 00:39:36,795 Speaker 2: a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show, 686 00:39:37,035 --> 00:39:40,875 Speaker 2: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus, offering bonus content and ad 687 00:39:40,915 --> 00:39:43,835 Speaker 2: free listening across our network for four ninety nine a month. 688 00:39:44,275 --> 00:39:47,275 Speaker 2: Look for the Pushkin Plus channel on Apple Podcasts or 689 00:39:47,315 --> 00:39:49,955 Speaker 2: at pushkin dot fm, and please sign up for our 690 00:39:49,955 --> 00:39:54,115 Speaker 2: newsletter at pushkin dot fm Slash Newsletter. To find more 691 00:39:54,115 --> 00:39:58,475 Speaker 2: Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 692 00:39:58,475 --> 00:40:10,275 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ben Nattafhaffrey.