1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind listener mail. 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: My name is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And hey, we're coming at 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 3: you with new stuff after roughly a week or so off. 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 3: Do we say this was a listener mail episode? I 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 3: think you did. But if we didn't, here, yeah, here 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 3: we are with listener mail for you. Hey, if you 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 3: are a listener of Stuff to Blow your Mind and 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 3: you have never gotten in touch before, this is a 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 3: great time to try it. You can email us at 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,639 Speaker 3: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Messages 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 3: of all sorts are welcome. We especially appreciate feedback to 14 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 3: any episodes, recent or older episodes, if you want, if 15 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 3: you've got thoughts to add, something interesting, to build on 16 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: anything we brought up in the episode, of course, if 17 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 3: you ever have corrections if necessary, If you have just 18 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 3: something interesting you want to share with us, we got 19 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 3: some messages of that sort here today, Or if you 20 00:00:58,480 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 3: just want to tell us what you like about the 21 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 3: show where you listen from that kind of thing. All 22 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 3: all sorts of messages are welcome. Contact at Stuff to 23 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 3: Blow your Mind dot com. 24 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: You can also ask to join the Discord server by 25 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: emailing us to that address. 26 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 3: All right, Rob, if you don't mind, I think we 27 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 3: should kick things off today with actually a couple of 28 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 3: messages from our listener Robin, one about ancient art and 29 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 3: another one about festive holiday cocktails. We're sort of we're 30 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 3: past the point for one season of holiday cocktails, but 31 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: just in time for another. All right, I'll start with 32 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 3: the one about art. So this is from Robin. Robin says, Hey, Rob, 33 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: Joe and JJ just a quick email with some cool 34 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: stuff I came across, maybe fodder for future topics. Sometimes 35 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: the almighty cursed algorithm actually digs up something worthwhile, and 36 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 3: I got served up an image of an ancient sculpture 37 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 3: from early history with a quick line of description. Intrigued, 38 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 3: I dug a bit more into the Gwynall line. Gwinnall, 39 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: if you're trying to look this up, is spelled gue nnol. 40 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 3: That's a Welsh word apparently meaning Martin. And just for 41 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: a bit of description, The Gwynall Lioness is a roughly 42 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 3: five thousand year old limestone statuette. It's a little over 43 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: eight centimeters tall and it shows a lion human hybrid form. 44 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 3: It's posed in a very interesting way. So we see 45 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: it from the thighs up to the head. The lower 46 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 3: parts of the legs I don't know if they ever existed. 47 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: If they did, they're no longer attached to the rest 48 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: of the statuette. But we see from the thighs up 49 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 3: and so it's a lion human form with sort of 50 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 3: the upright torso of a human body, but with a 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 3: lion's head. No Maine, just a manless lion. And also, 52 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 3: I don't know, the hands to me look like they're 53 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 3: supposed to be maybe lion claws, but this could be interpreted. 54 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 3: I guess it's just fingers. But it's a very unusual 55 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 3: interesting pose. First of all, the figure is extremely muscular, 56 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: and second of all, it's got its fists or claws 57 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 3: like pushed together with its elbows bent up. I don't 58 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 3: know what you would call this arm posture, but it's 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: like just raise your arms up and push your fists 60 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: together in front of your chest. And it's also sort 61 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 3: of rotating at the torso, so it looks like it's 62 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: doing some kind of exercise. I don't know if this 63 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 3: is like a pilates move. 64 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, this looks a lot like the bodybuilding pose that 65 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 2: is called the most muscular, except in the most muscular 66 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: like the fists are not like touching, they're like crisscrossing. 67 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: You've all seen this one if you've seen any amount 68 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: of bodybuilding, just clips you know, you know Arnold Schwarzenegger 69 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: back in the day, that sort of thing. 70 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 3: So, this statuette was allegedly found near modern day bagh Dad. 71 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 3: I don't know if it's known exactly when it was found, 72 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: but the trading history of it and collections seems to 73 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: begin in the early nineteen thirties, so it seemed it 74 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 3: was found somewhere around Baghdad before that time, in the 75 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 3: early nineteen thirties and held for a while in the 76 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 3: private collection of a guy who was I guess a 77 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 3: major tennis player named Alistair Bradley Martin who was also 78 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 3: an art collector. But it's been on display at some museums, 79 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 3: I believe the Brooklyn Museum in New York and so forth. 80 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 3: But anyway, I'm going to continue with Robin's message here 81 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 3: about this statuette. Robin says, holy mackinaw, what a fascinating 82 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 3: and gorgeous piece of art, but even better in the 83 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: Wikipedia article on this artwork, the first link in the 84 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 3: further reading tab is a book called Art of the 85 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 3: First Cities the third millennium BC, from the Mediterranean to 86 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 3: the Indus, edited by Joan ruse at All. That book 87 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: is downloadable as a PDF from the link provided there. 88 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: And wow, is that ever a treasure of incredible art 89 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 3: from the distant past. I love seeing the connections, similarities 90 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 3: and the different takes on common subjects of art and 91 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 3: expression by different people in the past. Early artwork gives 92 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 3: me the shivers in the best way. I find a 93 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: real connection can be forged with the artist, and to 94 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: think about who they were and when they were living, well, 95 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 3: it really blows my mind. As they say. Anyway, thanks 96 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 3: for the continued excellent content and wishing you all folks 97 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: down there a happy holiday season. Cheers Robin Well. First 98 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 3: of all, thank you so much, Robin. A great message, 99 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 3: and I love that you brought this up. So I 100 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 3: got interested looking at this artwork. And I have two 101 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,679 Speaker 3: takes on this one, I guess, one sort of thoughtful 102 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 3: and one kind of internet brained. The more thoughtful take 103 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: is yes, I totally know what you mean about the 104 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 3: way that ancient art can send shivers through your body. 105 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 3: Rob I assume you have a similar experience as well, 106 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 3: and I agree with you, Robin, that it is something 107 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: about that sudden connection between minds that are so distant 108 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 3: in time and space, like your mind and the artist's 109 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 3: mind across thousands of years. It's easy to feel, by 110 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 3: virtue of this encounter with someone's art, that you know 111 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 3: them in some intimate way, maybe better than people who 112 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 3: have actually met them know them, because art is a window, 113 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 3: you know, it's a window in kind of deep parts 114 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 3: of people's mind and character. Often people express things through 115 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: art works that maybe they aren't comfortable sharing in conversation. 116 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 3: You know, it's commonly thought of that art is in 117 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 3: some way an expression of the personality of the artists. 118 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 3: So like by seeing the works that people create, you 119 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: know something very familiar and close and maybe commonly hidden 120 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 3: about them. And yet because of the distance in time 121 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: and the anonymity of the artist in this case, we 122 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 3: don't know who made this lion of statue. Not only 123 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 3: can you never meet this artist, there's just so much 124 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 3: about their life and context you cannot know and will 125 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 3: never know. How different their life was from yours, how 126 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 3: differently they saw the world and everything like that. And 127 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 3: I think it's that tension between the intimate mental connection 128 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: established by viewing a piece of art and the objective 129 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 3: ignorance we have the total mystery about the life of 130 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 3: the artist that makes ancient art so haunting, at least 131 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: to me. 132 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I agree with all that. And by the way, 133 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: the book that was referenced, Art of the First Cities, 134 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: this was a two thousand and three publication from the 135 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: Metropolitan Museum of Art. Looks like you can still pick 136 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: up copies of it. Yeah, it looks like a handsome volume. 137 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 3: Oh nice. Yeah, I'm gonna have to go back and 138 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: check out that link after we record this. But anyway, 139 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 3: there are just so many questions that spring to mind. 140 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: I don't know, It's like you want to know more 141 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 3: about the mindset of the artist when you can't. For example, 142 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,119 Speaker 3: so this is a lion human hybrid. But I always 143 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 3: wonder in these cases were of these ancient artworks, is 144 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 3: it best thought of as anthropomorphic, meaning a lion taking 145 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 3: a human form, or theiomorphic? Is it a human taking 146 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: a lion form? And you can't necessarily tell by the picture, 147 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: but you can make guess is like, what does it 148 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: mean when it's a lion's head on a human body 149 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 3: as opposed to like a human head on a lion's body. 150 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: Does one imply more anthropomorphism versus theeomorphism than the other? 151 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I mean you can just look at our 152 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: own modern dreams of half human half animal hybrids and 153 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: they can ultimately convey a whole host of different ideas, 154 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: and certainly that would have been the case in the 155 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: ancient past as. 156 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 3: Well as For my internet brained take on this, I'm sorry, 157 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: but a comparison did come to mind. I was looking 158 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 3: at this leonine human being that is just so jacked 159 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 3: with muscles, and it made me think about those comic 160 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 3: book superhero illustrations that get turned into memes because the 161 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 3: muscles are comically gigantic. I'm thinking particularly of an image 162 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: I've seen many times on the internet of like Captain America, 163 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: where he looks just like a truck. 164 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, you included that one here, this in our outline, 165 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: and this is the infamous big chested Rob Leifeld Captain America. 166 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 3: And I'm not trying to hate, by the way, I 167 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: don't know anything about this artist. I'm just say it's 168 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: a funny image. 169 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: A lot of people have fun with lifel illustrations. I mean, 170 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 2: he was and is a very influential figure in comics, 171 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: particularly Marvel, but some of his designs are maimed a 172 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: lot because of their anatomical ridiculousness, even within the world 173 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: of comic book superheroes. Yeah. 174 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 3: On the other hand, I think there are multiple ways 175 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 3: you can kind of read the pose of this lion 176 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 3: human with the hands clasped together like that, Like is 177 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 3: that a muscle flexing pose or kind of a you know, 178 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 3: we were thinking of it as like an exercise bodybuilding pose, 179 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: but you could also read that as the hands clasp 180 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 3: of contemplation. You know. I don't know if it had 181 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: the same association in the ancient Mesopotamian culture that produced this, 182 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 3: but we often think of clasped hands as prayer or 183 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: meditation or contemplation, thoughtfulness, wisdom. That could be what's going 184 00:09:58,520 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 3: on here. 185 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to say exactly. It's hard. It's hard 186 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: to read this image. I mean it's easier to read 187 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 2: the Captain America. I think he's he's being in all tough. Uh, 188 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 2: that's that's just basically the read I'm getting here tough 189 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 2: and a little little mean. Ye, but yeah, it's hard 190 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: to read the lioness. 191 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 3: But anyway, thank you again, Robin. Oh should we do 192 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 3: this other message from Robin about festive holiday cocktails? 193 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah, this one came in separately, and this 194 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: one was was sent to us as well as to 195 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 2: Tracy and Holly over at stuff you missed in history class, 196 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: and this is how it goes down. Hi, Holly and 197 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 2: Rob and Tracy and Joe. Please forgive the slightly odd 198 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 2: co mingling of stuff personnel, But from listening to both 199 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: of your podcasts, stuff you missed a history class and 200 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: stuff to blow your mind, I think the two of 201 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: you are most relevant to the question I have. If 202 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: I may calling out Holly in particular because she has 203 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: a cocktail book out. That book is Killer Cocktails, Dangerous 204 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: Drinks in Spired by History's most Nefarious Criminals. It's out now. 205 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: You can get it in all sorts of formats. 206 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 3: Oh wonderful. Shout out to our crossover listeners, by the way. 207 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, Robin continues, it seems that both of you 208 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 2: are fans of a tasty cocktail. I would love to 209 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: make some tasty holiday cocktails for family and friends in 210 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: the next few weeks, and I am looking for fun 211 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: ideas and inspiration. Do the two of you either A 212 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: have an outlet where you if use specifically about tasty 213 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 2: drinks in your experience. I know about your exciting book, Hollie. 214 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: I am waiting until after Christmas in case someone already 215 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: wrapped it up for me or B have favorite or 216 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 2: a favorites that you go to websites, blogs, social media, 217 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: et cetera for cocktail inspiration. Thank you ever so much 218 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: for any info in this area. Much appreciated. Happy mixing. Well, Yes, 219 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 2: Rob and I do enjoy a cocktail, be it one 220 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,599 Speaker 2: that is infused with a spirit or one that is 221 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 2: alcohol free. I love a great many zero proof cocktails 222 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 2: these days as well. Big fanatropical drinks, so often turned 223 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: to the pages of Jeff Beach Bumberry as well as 224 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: his Total Tiki app on top of his published books. 225 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: You know, so it's a great These are great places 226 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: to find cool, historic tiki drinks to try out. I 227 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 2: also love to look through the pages of Imbibe Magazine 228 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: and their website imbibemagazine dot com for ideas. In fact, 229 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: one of the holiday drinks I've been making regularly each 230 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: year for a few years now is one called nutty 231 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: like a fruitcake. That's a lot of fun. So you 232 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: can find that at Imbibe magazine. I will, however, stress 233 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: that this is one of those drinks that every year 234 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 2: I make it, it feels a little stronger and a 235 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: little sweeter. And I know that I'm not changing the 236 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: way I make it, but I think the makeup of 237 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: myself is changing each year. It just feels sweeter and 238 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: stronger to my sensibilities. So if you do make this 239 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 2: drink and it's a great Christmas, you know, holiday Day, 240 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: New Year's drink, and so forth, I would say, don't 241 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: be a hero. Consider cutting it with soda water. It's 242 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: still a great drink if you do it that way. Yeah, 243 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: I support that. Certainly, over time the body craves less 244 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: alcohol and sugar, I would say, but yeah, yeah, you know, 245 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 2: on the subject of cutting drinks or not being a hero, 246 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: I think this came up recently on a Weird House 247 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: Cinema episode. 248 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 3: I don't remember if we may have cut it. I 249 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 3: don't know if we left it in or not, But anyway, 250 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: I want to stand up for the non dry martini. 251 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: You know, whenever people order a martini in a movie, 252 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: if they specify anything about it, they always say dry 253 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 3: one very dry martini, meaning you know, higher content of 254 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: your whatever, your your hard spirit is in your gin 255 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 3: or your vodka. So I recommend if you're making yourself 256 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 3: a martini for New Year's try try a wetter, gentler martini. 257 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: I think it's a nice experience. I think a gin 258 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 3: based martini is better. And go less on the gin, 259 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 3: heavier on the vermouth, and try it with some olive brine. 260 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 3: It's it's nice. 261 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do want to stress too for folks 262 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: out there who don't drink alcohol or considering stopping or 263 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: you know, considering doing a dry january, as a lot 264 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 2: of folks do these days. I mean, there's never been 265 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: a better time in my opinion, to go that route. 266 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: Like we have so many wonderful zero proof spirits, zero 267 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 2: proof ingredients, cocktail recipes to go off of. Yeah, you 268 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: can still have a grand time and get you know, 269 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: so much out of the cocktail experience these days. 270 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 3: Totally agree. There there are even some like canned, pre 271 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 3: made non alcoholic cocktails you can buy now that we've 272 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 3: tried recently that are really good. 273 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So if any of you out there 274 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: have particular favorites you'd like to share, write in. We'd 275 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: love to hear from you. 276 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: All right. This next message is from Elliott and it 277 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 3: concerns our episodes on Sacred Trees, specifically the second episode 278 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 3: we did on that where I talked about sacred trees 279 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: struck by lightning and Rob you talked about the meaning 280 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 3: of the Rowan Tree. Elliott says. Greetings, longtime listener, first 281 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 3: time writer here. Primarily thank you for your service with 282 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 3: the podcast. It's an educational joy and a wonderful wellspring 283 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 3: of inspiration. Thank you so much, Elliott. Elliott says, as 284 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 3: a small token of appreciation for the Rowan Tree episode, 285 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 3: I wanted to share some seeds. Specifically, I know the 286 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 3: Rowan tree is used by Ursula k Legwin in her 287 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 3: Earthsea series. The first chapter of book three, The Farthest Shore, 288 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 3: is called the Rowan Tree. The specific Rowan tree in 289 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 3: question is one which stands adjacent to a fountain in 290 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 3: the courtyard in the Magical School of Roke, the inspiration 291 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 3: for Hogwarts. This scene is actually a callback to book 292 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 3: one titled A Wizard of Earth see when the young 293 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: protagonist first arrives at the school and meets the arch 294 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: Mage an inspiration for Dumbledore. Since Ursula le Gwin's father 295 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 3: was an anthropologist working with Indigenous Americans, documented by her 296 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 3: mother in the book Ishi in Two Worlds, Young Ursula 297 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 3: grew up surrounded by inherently anthropological questions such as what 298 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: does this tree mean to this culture? The magic system 299 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: in the Earth Sea universe is also fascinating to view 300 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: through this lens. An episode on the on magic systems 301 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: in general could be fun. Thanks again for your great work, Elliott, Well, 302 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 3: thank you Elliott. A couple of thoughts. First of all, yes, 303 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 3: I love Ursula Legwin. I haven't read the Earthsea series yet. 304 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 3: This email has made me think maybe that should be 305 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 3: my next fiction read. Been meaning to for years. I 306 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 3: think there is a cool sensibility about cultures in her work, 307 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: that the way she depicts invented alien cultures and her 308 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 3: sci fi novels. I haven't read any of her fantasy work, 309 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 3: but excited about Earthsea. It feels very sensitive and lived in, 310 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 3: with a kind of heterogeneity visible within the general trends 311 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 3: as opposed to the stories that depict alien cultures or 312 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 3: invented culture is in a very flat or symbolic way 313 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 3: where it's just like everyone does this, you know. And also, 314 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: if you would like to learn more about the story 315 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 3: of the man known as Ishi mentioned in this email, 316 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 3: the person who's in the title of the Theodor Krober 317 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 3: book Eshi in Two Worlds. We discussed him in our 318 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 3: series on Brain Theft from twenty twenty one, so you 319 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 3: can go back and listen to that if you want 320 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 3: to hear about Hi. 321 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 2: All right, let's see. Oh, we do have a number 322 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 2: of messages related to the Hearth. I believe that's a 323 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: there's a Hearth related title for today's listener mail episode. 324 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: So let's get into some of these. This first one 325 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 2: comes to us from Mike, subject line x Men ninety 326 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 2: seven Fireplace. We were talking about various fireplace for your 327 00:17:53,280 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: home DVDs, streaming options and so forth. So Mike says, 328 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 2: to add to the collection, Marvel has posted an X 329 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: Men animated series Fireplace on YouTube. 330 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 3: You know, Mike included a link and I tried to 331 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 3: go check this out, but by the time I checked it, 332 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 3: it was after Christmas and the video was gone, so 333 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 3: it may have been just a before Christmas thing and 334 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 3: then taken down. I don't know, or maybe it's still 335 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 3: out there somewhere. But I did find a screenshot and 336 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 3: I pulled that in and put it in our outline, 337 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 3: so here you can see rob what the X Men 338 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 3: fireplace looked like. I appreciate that this is more like 339 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 3: a hand drawn animation style. 340 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, very much in the style of X Men 341 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: ninety seven, which is an amazing series. By the way, 342 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: it hits really hard. I think it's must viewing for 343 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: anyone who grew up with the nineties X Men cartoon. 344 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 2: But I think I haven't tested this out yet, but 345 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: I think you could also watch X Men ninety seven 346 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: without having watched the original X Men series. I watched 347 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: it with my kid and it was a lot of fun, 348 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: and we've been talking about, well should we get mom 349 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 2: in on the action as well? And I think there's 350 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: I think you can get into it. That's my theory. 351 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: I think you can watch X Men ninety seven with 352 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: only just like a casual understanding of Marvel's X Men. 353 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 3: Trying to see who's got stockings. The stockings have names 354 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 3: on them here. Oh yeah, we have a stocking for Wolverine, Storm, Rogue, 355 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 3: Gene Jeene Gray. 356 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: And then who this says morph in Morph? Yeah, morph 357 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,719 Speaker 2: is a shape shifting mutants. Yes, I don't know if 358 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: I knew morph Morph was in the in the original series. Okay, 359 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 2: and has a I think a more prominent role in 360 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: this one. Cool. 361 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 3: Well, as I've said before on the show, I'm underfamiliar 362 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 3: with the X Men cartoons, both old and new. I 363 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 3: haven't seen this new one, and I didn't ever watch 364 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 3: much of the old one, so I don't know as 365 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 3: much as I would like to, But I don't know. 366 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 3: It looks fun, I like the visual style. I'd like 367 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 3: to check it out. 368 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's solid. Let's see what else? Oh? And 369 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 2: then this is the This is also from Mike, Right, 370 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 2: Mike sent something that sent over something that aw wrestler dead. 371 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 2: It's a video of one hangman Adam Page sipping whiskey 372 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: in front of a burning house that's serving as a 373 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: yule log. I didn't I personally don't follow wrestling as 374 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: much these days, so I don't know what the context 375 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 2: is for this. But still, anything within in the virtual 376 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 2: Christmas Hearth domain, I'm all for it. Oh, and this 377 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 2: just springs to mind as well. I didn't think to 378 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: mention this earlier, but when we were talking about like 379 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 2: spinoffs of virtual hearts, digital hearths and fireplaces and indeed 380 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 2: yule Logs Adult Swims yule Log from twenty twenty two, 381 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: it's like a horror movie that begins as a yule 382 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 2: Log video feed and then it evolves into a horror movie. 383 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my pal nick A Katanawat did the original 384 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: score for it. This is the same bunch that also 385 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 2: did Too Many Cooks a few years I think a 386 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 2: couple of years before that. 387 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 3: So similar vein so like fireplace for your home in 388 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 3: the style of Too Many Cooks. Exactly, Yes, perfect, that's 389 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 3: what I want. 390 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 2: In speaking of what we want, I was also thinking. 391 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 2: We talked a little bit about this when we discussed 392 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 2: the movie Blue Sunshine and Weird House Cinema, which has 393 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: a very notable horrific hearth sequence in it. These are 394 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: some of my ideas. These are movies that we need 395 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: digital hearth feeds. For Blue Sunshine, of course, The wicker 396 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: Man obviously not quite a hearth, but fire Fellowship of 397 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: the Ring seems just a no brainer. We need one 398 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 2: of the Roaring Hop a hearth with the one ring 399 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: in there, you know, staying nice and cool and shining, 400 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 2: and maybe we can glimpse the script in the interior 401 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 2: of the ring. I think that would be a good one. 402 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 2: And then finally, Citizen Kane. It's been a while since 403 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 2: I've seen Citizen Kane, but I'm reminded that Citizen Kane 404 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: had a phenomenal fireplace. It seems like that would be 405 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 2: a great inclusion as well. 406 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 3: I gotta say my entry is the Vincent Price House 407 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 3: of Wax, whereas our burning House of Wax. Though, that 408 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 3: would be kind of hard to loop, I think because 409 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: as the wax figmurines melt, maybe they could melt and 410 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 3: then it could go in reverse and they reconstitute and 411 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 3: it just. 412 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: Got coving forth forever. It sounds fun. Who Likewise, this 413 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: would be hard to loop. But melting Nazis from the 414 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: end of Raiders of the Last Star. Ah, Yes, that 415 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 2: could also potentially work. 416 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 3: Melting Nazis for your home Yeah yes. 417 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: Oh. A couple of quick messages from the Discord server 418 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 2: in regards to hearth videos and so forth, One Gorpi 419 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: writes in with the following back in two thousand and eight, 420 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: Stephen Colbert made a holiday special and one of the 421 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 2: extras on the DVD was a yule log that but 422 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 2: a random book would occasionally be thrown into it. I 423 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 2: remember Fahrenheit four fifty one was one of the first 424 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: books thrown into the yule log. Nice and then oh 425 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 2: and then we also heard from Matt on Discord. Matt 426 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 2: writes loving the hearth episode so far. If I growing 427 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 2: up in the Burbs, we had a functional woodstove fireplace 428 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 2: in the living room, so between that and being a 429 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 2: boy scout as a kid, I have a strong nostalgia 430 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 2: for fireplaces and campfires. The apartment I lived in had 431 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: a faux fireplace mantle with a rotating fire effect and 432 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 2: a built in space heater. Something I noticed over the 433 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 2: years was that even if the heater part wasn't on, 434 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 2: my face would flush after sitting in front of the 435 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: fire effect for a while, as though it was a 436 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: real fire and not just a rotating stencil and red light. 437 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: And Netflix certainly wasn't the first. I've got this gym 438 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 2: from two thousand and five, and I'm sure there were 439 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: plenty before it. Matt includes a photograph of a DVD 440 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: here holiday fire a virtual fireplace. 441 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 3: Oh man, I bet like Kmart could not keep these 442 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 3: on the shelves in two thousand and six. 443 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to admit there many times where I'll 444 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: go up to I will be at a friend's house 445 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 2: who has a faux fireplace of some kind, and I 446 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: will still warm my hands by it. I just can't. 447 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: Just like you see it, you do it, and even 448 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: when you feel no heat coming off of it, the 449 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 2: ritual of the of the situation is still feels potent. Yeah. 450 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 3: Interesting that the thing Matt saying about the physiological reaction, 451 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 3: the flushing without the heat. 452 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 2: You know, it kind of comes back to what we 453 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 2: were talking about earlier about zero proof cocktails. I've had 454 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 2: sit situations before where I've had a zero proof cocktail 455 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 2: and you know, you kind I kind of feel like 456 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 2: a little flushed, a little, a little like psychosomatic imbibing 457 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:39,239 Speaker 2: of like purely mental alcohol. In those situations. 458 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 3: Like just the the belief that you're having a cocktail 459 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 3: provides some amount of social disinhibition, even if there's no 460 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 3: actual alcohol in it. 461 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's so much, of course, with with any 462 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 2: of these things where there's the actual stimuli there's the 463 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 2: actual you know, chemical and biological processes that are involved. 464 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: But then there's some there's ritual, there's there's additional sensory 465 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: data it's not tied to the heat or to the 466 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 2: alcohol and so forth, and all of that has an 467 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 2: effect on the mind as well. There have probably been studies, 468 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: maybe there even been studies about people warming themselves by 469 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 2: a fake firelight. I don't know all right. 470 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 3: This next message comes from Joe, a subject line on illumination. 471 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 3: Dear Rob and Joe, thank you for your illuminating had 472 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: to swing at that slow pitch over the plate sorry 473 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 3: podcast on hearths. I wanted to write in with some 474 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 3: cultural commentary on your observations on the nature of firelight 475 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 3: and how we take pervasive electric illumination for granted. I 476 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: connected this conversation with an upcoming ritual in which I 477 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 3: partake annually, Honkkah. My favorite thing about Honkkah is the 478 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 3: sacred practice of turning off all the other lights while 479 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 3: the candles burn. The light of the honakiah or manora, 480 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 3: both words are correct is intended to be the only 481 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: light in the area for the time when the candles burn. 482 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 3: It can be an extraordinary gift of peace in a 483 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 3: time of year which is usually filled with joy, that 484 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 3: brings with it a sizable share of chaos, noise, and 485 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 3: of course bright electric light. I am a secular jew, 486 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: so for me, this holiday isn't about a divine connection. 487 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 3: But I find the ten or fifteen minutes of darkness, 488 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 3: but for the flickering, fading, waning light as the candles 489 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 3: in my manora dwindle, strengthen my relationship to my ancestors 490 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 3: whose nights were lit by this ephemeral source. It's not 491 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 3: a portal to another world, but for me, firelight does 492 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 3: open a passageway of sorts through time and creates a 493 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 3: connection to a history I choose to treasure. Joe, Well, 494 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 3: thank you, Joe. Yeah, that's very interesting, and it does 495 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 3: expand on some themes we talked about in the second 496 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 3: of our Hearth episodes when we were talking about the 497 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 3: study of how time lit by firelight is used differently 498 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 3: than time lit by daylight or by electric light. And 499 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 3: in one particular case of people studied living in Southern Africa, 500 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 3: time that was lit exclusively by firelight was used overwhelmingly 501 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 3: for storytelling, as opposed to other types of conversation which 502 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 3: dominated during daylight hours. And that's kind of an interesting observation. 503 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: Don't know how universally true that holds, but it seems 504 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 3: that other sources have documented that it is common for 505 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 3: people who have environments lit entirely by firelight to dwell 506 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 3: in a kind of storytelling space, or in a space 507 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 3: that puts everyday experiences in the context of a kind 508 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 3: of bigger picture and a history and a world and 509 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 3: a realm of meaning, as opposed to just the day 510 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 3: to day tactics of getting by that consume most of 511 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 3: our energy. And so I thought that that was really interesting, 512 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,719 Speaker 3: and I wonder to what extent there was a kind 513 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 3: of economic explanation in the paper we talked about, which 514 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 3: is that firelight is enough light to stay awake and 515 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 3: interact with other people, to like talk and sing and 516 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 3: dance and have social time. But the quality of the 517 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 3: light produced by a fire is typically not good enough 518 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 3: to see what you're doing, well enough to get most 519 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 3: kinds of work done, you know. So it's like it 520 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 3: produces a time you can be awake and do things, 521 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 3: but you can't really be very economically productive. And that 522 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 3: could be viewed in some ways as a kind of 523 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 3: blessing because it allows you to engage in these other 524 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 3: types of activities. And so we were thinking, is it 525 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 3: only that kind of mechanical explanation where it's like, well, 526 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 3: you can't really see good enough to do most types 527 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 3: of economic work with the firelight, or is it also 528 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 3: that there are things about the esthetic qualities of firelight 529 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 3: that just put you in a different frame of mind 530 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,479 Speaker 3: that also lend themselves to these sort of storytelling meaning 531 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 3: orientations and thinking more about the big picture and thinking 532 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 3: more about other worlds and dreams. I guess I'm not 533 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 3: fully prepared to have this conversation day, but maybe it's 534 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 3: something to come back to in the future. Like, if 535 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 3: it is the case that firelight puts you in a 536 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 3: particularly imaginative or expansive state of mind compared to daylight 537 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 3: or bright electric light, why is that? What is it 538 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 3: about the firelight environment that that makes you think differently? 539 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 3: Is it something about the color of the light, or 540 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 3: the relative amount of darkness surrounding you or what. I 541 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 3: don't know exactly, but I think they'll be interesting to consider. 542 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, fluctuations shadows. I wonder if lava lamps get into 543 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: a similar area, like, you know, yeah, we'll probably you know, 544 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 2: you're not doing a lot of like serious study by 545 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: by Lava Lamp. You're you're you're doing other things. Yeah, 546 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 2: you're you're you're dreaming, you know. All right, This next 547 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 2: one comes to us from Anna. Anna writes, and it says, Hi, 548 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: Robin Joe, you talk about the TV show of a Fireplace. 549 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: Reminds me of something that came out a few years 550 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: ago here in Australia. It was just one long train 551 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 2: journey and it ran all day long. There's a famous 552 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 2: train in Australia called the Gone that runs through the 553 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 2: center of Australia. I had to look this up and yeah, 554 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: it goes right through the middle from the northern coast 555 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: to the southern coast. It looks pretty incredible. The show, 556 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 2: Anna continues, was mostly shots from the front of the 557 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 2: train moving along the track, interspersed with other external shots 558 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 2: of the train moving along. Because the train goes through 559 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,239 Speaker 2: the center of Australia, the landscape is mostly desert. There 560 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: was no soundtrack, just the soothing clackety clack of the train. 561 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 2: It was quite popular at the time. The fact that 562 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: there wasn't much going on was what made it appealing 563 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: because people found it soothing. I live in Sydney now, 564 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 2: so I don't encounter fireplaces a lot, but I grew 565 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: up in Tasmania, where they were a part of life 566 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: in winter. Obviously, here in Australia, winter is at the 567 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 2: opposite time of the year, so I don't associate them 568 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 2: with Christmas, but I do associate them with family gatherings. Anyway, 569 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 2: thanks for the great podcast. 570 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, well thanks Anna. Well, yeah, I agree that that's 571 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 3: an interesting comparison. So when we were talking about Slow 572 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 3: TV and the Hearth episodes, we talked about obviously, you know, 573 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 3: the mule log fireplace for your home, all of these 574 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 3: fire burning movies, but we also talked about Andy Warhol's Empire, 575 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 3: which is just a shot of the Empire State Building 576 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 3: filmed over the course of one night as as the 577 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 3: sky grows dark and the floodlights come on at the 578 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: top of the building, and not much happens. You just 579 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 3: look at the building for I don't know, six hours 580 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 3: or eight hours. How I think it's like eight hours 581 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 3: the full length of the movie when played at the 582 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 3: frame rate that's intended. And so that's one way of 583 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 3: doing it. The train thing is on a similar theme, 584 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 3: though it does seem kind of different because there you 585 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 3: are going from one place to another. Though I still 586 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 3: think it'd be hard to call that much of a 587 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 3: plot by conventional standards, but there's something more literally of 588 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 3: a journey about it. 589 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: I should go ahead and to add a real time 590 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 2: self correction here. I think I said gone. I think 591 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: GAN would be more accurate because this was formerly the 592 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 2: Afghan Express and it was abbreviated to GAN. But yeah, 593 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 2: this does sound like a very interesting program in its 594 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 2: own right. I'm reminded now of I believe this was 595 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 2: a twenty sixteen project from the band Cigaroes. They did 596 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 2: some sort of project where they had like a camera 597 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 2: mounted on the top of a vehicle and they were 598 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 2: just driving around Iceland and then of course with their 599 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: signature sound on top of that. But I remember when 600 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: that came out. I remember a lot of us were 601 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: very intrigued by it, and I think you can still 602 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 2: pull it up on their website, and maybe that just 603 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 2: linked to some other places you can watch it, but anyway, 604 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 2: it's still out there if you want to ride around 605 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 2: Iceland with cigarettes. 606 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 3: Well, thanks again, Anna, Okay, let's see Rob do you 607 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 3: mind if I do this message about our vault episodes 608 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 3: on the shadow, please do. This comes from ls. LS says, hey, 609 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 3: I thought your episodes on shadows were quite intriguing. I 610 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 3: was particularly curious about the role shadows play in characters 611 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 3: or religious figures, such as Chaia and that, by the way, 612 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 3: is a Hindu deity that is a personification of the 613 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 3: shadow or of shade. LS continues. The stories you featured 614 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 3: in these episodes had characters with their shadows being stolen 615 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 3: or in some cases a separate entity. This got me 616 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 3: thinking about characters that have shadows as an integral part 617 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 3: of their being, especially in ways that reflect some sort 618 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 3: of inner evil or buried personality. An example that comes 619 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 3: to mind is Vex from League of Legends parentheses. I know, well, LS, 620 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 3: maybe you know, but I don't know. I don't know 621 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 3: what I've heard of League of Legends, but I don't 622 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 3: know anything about it. This implies to me that there 623 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 3: must be I don't know something notorious about it. 624 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know much of Legal Legends, but 625 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: the TV series Arcane, the animated series, is quite good 626 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 2: and I'm not very far into it, but people really 627 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,919 Speaker 2: love it and I've been impressed by it so far. 628 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean it seems like a rich world, 629 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 2: but I don't know anything about the original video. 630 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 3: Kain Arkane is a show based on legal legends. 631 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 2: Correct. 632 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah, so Ls continues about this character Vex. 633 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 3: This character features abilities revolving around her sentient shadow, one 634 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 3: that is a source of power, a thing that she 635 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 3: can separate from and manipulate. Another, maybe more prominent exhibit 636 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 3: is the departed shadow of the Marvel character Centry. This 637 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 3: thing is called the Void and is somewhat its own character. 638 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 3: In the Doctor Strange trade paperback The God of Magic 639 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 3: parentheses Kate slash Walta, the Void is imprisoned in the 640 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 3: Wizard's Sanctum, a being that mirrors the strength of Century, 641 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 3: but returns the century's good deeds into equal of darkness. 642 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 3: These characters come to mind because they have different behaviors 643 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 3: than the shadows featured in the episodes. I thought that 644 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 3: the idea of the shadow being the reflection of someone's 645 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 3: inner evil, like a personification of intrusive thoughts or source 646 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 3: of power, was a topic that wasn't reached due to 647 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 3: time constraints, but felt that this kind of interpretation of 648 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 3: shadow was something that you might find curious. There are 649 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 3: certainly many more instances of this, but I may have 650 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 3: spent too much time on this anyways, LS well, thank you. Ells. Yeah, 651 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 3: I guess we didn't get into it in the episode. 652 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 3: For example, I know the shadow. I don't know a 653 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 3: ton about this, but I know the shadow in I 654 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 3: almost called it Jungian psychology. I try not to say 655 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 3: Jungian psychology these days because I feel like that gives 656 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 3: Jungianism too much of the implication that it's based on 657 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 3: like direct scientific research in Jungian thought. Uh, there's this 658 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 3: idea of the shadow that is basically the the subconscious, 659 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 3: repressed version of the ego or of the self. And 660 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 3: so it's like the version of you that is maybe 661 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 3: the version that that you don't want people to see, 662 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 3: that would maybe do bad things that you know you 663 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 3: shouldn't do, or in some other way would would violate 664 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 3: your your externally validated ethos. You know, it's the the 665 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 3: version of you that could be let loose if you 666 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 3: just cut off all of your inhibitions. 667 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 2: The the mister hide to your doctor Jekyl exactly, yes, 668 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 2: and so yeah, you can have kind of interesting thoughts 669 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,879 Speaker 2: about the ways that your conscious self interacts with the 670 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,720 Speaker 2: you know, with your your repressed desires and the things 671 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 2: that you know you shouldn't do, and so forth. 672 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 3: Those kind of interactions between the conscious self and the 673 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 3: and the shadow self, I don't know, maybe kind of 674 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 3: blend in interesting ways that that come out in our behaviors. 675 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 3: But then again, I don't want to I don't want 676 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 3: to overstate or give the impression that that I think 677 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 3: Youngian thought is like a sign scientifically validated way of 678 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 3: understanding humanity. It's more just kind of like an interesting 679 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 3: philosophical framework on the human mind. 680 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 2: All right, Well, on that note, should should we turn 681 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 2: to a little weird house cinema limail to round out 682 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 2: the episode? Absolutely the Void to Our Century? 683 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 3: If you will, Let's see you want to do this 684 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 3: one from Nathan and Olivia or this one from Joan? 685 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 2: Oh? I mean, whether they're both great? Your choice. 686 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,919 Speaker 3: Let's see, I'll take Nathan and Olivia, then you take Joan. 687 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 3: How about that sounds good? Okay? So this is from 688 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 3: an account called Nathan and Olivia, though the email uses 689 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 3: the first person singular pronoun, so it seems like this 690 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 3: is from either Nathan or Olivia in superposition for the 691 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 3: time being. Subject line Dead Mountaineers Hotel Hi Robert, Joe 692 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 3: and JJ just finished the Weird House episode on the 693 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 3: Dead Mountaineers Hotel. I was especially excited for this one 694 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 3: as the Strugatsky's have been cited by the developers of 695 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 3: the video game disco Elysium as a core inspiration to 696 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 3: the game, and then they add if you search Arcadi, 697 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 3: Arcadi and Boris Strugatsky disco Elysium Steam, you should find 698 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 3: a list of inspirations the developers made on a Steam 699 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 3: page for the game. Disco Elysium is my favorite game 700 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 3: of all time. You play as an amnesiac detective trying 701 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 3: to solve a murder and get his life together or 702 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 3: not in the fictional city of Revashl. It is a 703 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 3: callback to classic CRPGs like Planescape Torment and regarded as 704 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 3: one of the best written video games of all time. 705 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 3: The lead writer for the game was Robert Kurwitz, who 706 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 3: is Estonian. Oh yeah, was Dead Mountaineer's Hotel Estonian? I 707 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 3: know it was one of the Baltic states where it 708 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 3: was made. Yes, Rob just confirmed it was Estonian. Anyway, 709 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 3: The email goes on. I really enjoyed the episode on 710 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 3: the Dead Mountaineers Hotel. The influence on Disco Elysia is 711 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 3: easy to see. If you were ever to decide to 712 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 3: do a weird house episode on a video game, Disco 713 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 3: would be a great candidate. It's relatively short, and the 714 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 3: choices are endless and isn't traditionally difficult as there is 715 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 3: no combat. It sounds great to me. 716 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 2: You had me at it's relatively short. 717 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, good writing and short. That's my kind of game 718 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 3: these days. Take care and thanks for a great show, 719 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 3: Nathan and Olivia. So yeah, thank you for getting in touch, 720 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 3: either Nathan or Olivia or both of you whoever wrote this. 721 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 3: That I've heard great things about the game, I actually well, 722 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,760 Speaker 3: actually I'm understanding. I did downloaded it and I started 723 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,439 Speaker 3: playing it one day, but I didn't actually like get 724 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 3: into the you know as one of those threshold I 725 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 3: played like five minutes. So I just need to like 726 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 3: start over someday. 727 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've I've been tempted to pick it up 728 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 2: as well because I've always heard great things, and as 729 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,919 Speaker 2: of this recording, there's like a massive sale on it 730 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 2: on the on the console that I use in their 731 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 2: web store, so I like, I have it bookmarked, and 732 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 2: I've been trying to decide It's like, is seventy percent off? 733 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: Is this the threshold at which I buy this game? 734 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 2: And then what will it take for me to actually 735 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 2: play it? I just play fewer games these days, but yeah, 736 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 2: I've only heard great things and a Planescape Torment that 737 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 2: was one that I loved so much back in the day. 738 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:27,359 Speaker 2: That is an amazing game Dungeons and Dragons game set 739 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 2: in the Planescape setting, which is also one of my favorites. Yeah, 740 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 2: loads of fun. So if it's anything like that, that's 741 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,479 Speaker 2: that's a great sign. All right, One more weird house message. Yes, 742 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 2: this one comes to us from Joan Jones, says, I 743 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 2: just enjoyed listening to your discussion of Return to Oz. Yes, 744 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 2: so we recently re ran this as a Weird House 745 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 2: Cinema rewind episode, and I think I managed to more 746 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 2: or less hit the debut of the new Wicked movie 747 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 2: without really intending too. It's like ended up being like, oh, 748 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 2: that was a great I patted myself on the back 749 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 2: for it, but it was kind of by accident. I 750 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 2: wasn't even thinking about it. But obviously Wicked has been 751 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 2: a huge hit. Everyone I know who has seen it 752 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 2: loved it. The rest of my family really loved it, 753 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 2: but I haven't seen it just yet. Anyway, Jones says, Oh, boys, 754 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 2: your grandma's minds were being blown by those characters before 755 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 2: you were a twinkle in your daddy's eyes. What you 756 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 2: view as mind blowing is all from the original Oz 757 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 2: books by bomb You owe it to yourself to read them. 758 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 2: Bomb Can the original illustrator, and the new illustrations are wonderful. 759 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 2: They have a fantastic art deco vibe. Ozma of Oz 760 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 2: is Dorothy's best friend, not her alter ego. She's the 761 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 2: rightful ruler of Oz, but was hidden for most of 762 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 2: her life when momby transformed her into the least likely 763 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 2: creature imaginable, a little boy named Tip. When Tip gets 764 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 2: transformed into a beautiful fairy princess, he's initially not too 765 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 2: happy about it. Totally can talk, but he just doesn't 766 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 2: feel like it. Auntie m and Uncle Henry eventually joined 767 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,839 Speaker 2: Dorothy and Oz. Oh lots of twists and turns there. Yeah. 768 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 2: As a little girl, my personal favorite was a magic 769 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 2: turnstyle that would dress you in a new outfit. Every 770 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 2: time you went through it. I just realized turnstyle may 771 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 2: have been a pun for turn style. My friends and 772 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 2: I hated Glinda's hairstyle and loved polychrome The Fairy of 773 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 2: the Rainbow. Wow. Somebody once pointed out that Oz is 774 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 2: a distinctly American fairy tale. In Alice in Wonderland, for example, 775 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 2: all the characters are self centered creeps who work against Alice. 776 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 2: In Oz, Dorothy succeeds by making friends. Check out the 777 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 2: books sometime, Joan, Oh. 778 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't really. I guess I didn't really think 779 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 3: about that. But in both of the Oz stories I 780 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 3: know from the movies, not from the books, Dorothy is 781 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,439 Speaker 3: is a friend maker, even in a very strange lend. 782 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 3: She picks up friendships wherever she goes. 783 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point. 784 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: Ye. 785 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 2: Every time the Wizard of Oz has come up, we 786 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 2: often hear from folks who have read the books who 787 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 2: point out just how deep and weird it all is. 788 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 2: I have to I've never I have never read any 789 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,879 Speaker 2: of it, but I enjoy these little little tidbits about 790 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 2: the deep weirdness. 791 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,320 Speaker 3: Of OZ totally. All Right, Does that do it for today? 792 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 2: I believe it does. We'll go ahead and close out 793 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,799 Speaker 2: this episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind listener Mail, 794 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 2: but we'll be back with more in the future, so 795 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 2: keep the listener mails coming. We read everything that comes in. 796 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 2: It doesn't necessarily make it to a listener mail episode, 797 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 2: but a lot of it does. Likewise, you can leave 798 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,359 Speaker 2: your thoughts and the discord server. You can write into 799 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 2: us via email and we'll send you the link for that. 800 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 2: We're also there are some some other places. There's a 801 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,399 Speaker 2: there's a Stuff to Blow your Mind Facebook group called 802 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,919 Speaker 2: the Discussion Module. You can look that up and ask 803 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 2: to join that if if you prefer to use the Facebook. 804 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 2: Speaking of social if you're on Instagram where STBYM podcast, 805 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 2: follow us there. It's one way to keep up with 806 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,919 Speaker 2: what we're putting out these days. On letter We're Weird 807 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 2: House and you can follow the Weird House cinema selections there. 808 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 2: And yeah, those are the main plugs I can think of. 809 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:08,719 Speaker 2: What do you got, Joe? 810 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 3: Just our email once again. Oh but first, huge thanks 811 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 3: as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If 812 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 3: you want to get in touch by email and you 813 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,319 Speaker 3: missed the address earlier in the episode, once again, it 814 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 3: is contact at Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 815 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 816 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 817 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.