WEBVTT - Money Truths You Won’t Hear Anywhere Else w/ Len Penzo #1049

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, and today I'm

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<v Speaker 1>talking money truce. You won't hear anywhere else with Len Penzo. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So I've always appreciated oddballs. My guest today he fits

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<v Speaker 1>the description, and he's publicly willing to admit it. If

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking for generic personal finance content, you're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to find it in his writings. When I was first

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<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out how I could contribute to the

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<v Speaker 1>personal finance community, something I was like really interested in doing,

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<v Speaker 1>I started off writing on the internet, mostly because TikTok

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<v Speaker 1>didn't exist yet. Well, Len Penzo allowed me to contribute

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<v Speaker 1>to his already successful blog. I will not link to

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<v Speaker 1>that post in the show notes because it's old and bad,

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<v Speaker 1>but it is a testament to the beautiful community of

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<v Speaker 1>personal finance nerds and to Len's graciousness as well. Lenn

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<v Speaker 1>has a new book out. It's called True Money Stories.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about the intersection of personal finance and family life.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm excited to pick his brain today on the podcast. Len,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining me.

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<v Speaker 2>Joel, thank you for having me on your terrific show podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm honored.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a pleasure to have you my friend. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you and I've been corresponding for many years, although we've

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<v Speaker 1>never had a sit down chat like this, so I'm

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<v Speaker 1>excited to get to talk to you in a long

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<v Speaker 1>form way. My first question, though, of course, is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be what your craft beer equivalent? What does len

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<v Speaker 1>Penzo like disploy John? Even though he is so you're

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<v Speaker 1>so smart with your money, You're so thoughtful about saving,

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<v Speaker 1>investing for the future. But there's got to be something

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<v Speaker 1>you're like spending a lot of money on now that

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<v Speaker 1>people think is a little weird.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it is weird, probably for most people, but

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<v Speaker 2>I believe it. I'm a model train buff. I model

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<v Speaker 2>an end scale and I have a weakness for buying

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<v Speaker 2>anything related to the end scale model railroad hobby. So

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<v Speaker 2>I always always splurging on that.

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<v Speaker 1>Always how expensive of a hobby is this? Uh?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it can be very expensive. So if you

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<v Speaker 2>want to buy just, for example, just a locomotive for

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<v Speaker 2>example that pools your little pulls the little cars behind it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>those run over two hundred dollars each.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So and just give you.

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<v Speaker 2>An I have, I think I have, gosh, I bet

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<v Speaker 2>you I have twenty five locomotives alone, So you can

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<v Speaker 2>do that just on the locomotive, so it doesn't count

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<v Speaker 2>all the modeling, all the models you have to buy,

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<v Speaker 2>the buildings and the track and the all the electronics stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's thousands and thousands of dollars over time.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you ever go into like Walt Disney territory and

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<v Speaker 1>build your own little railroad in your backyard? Is it hobby? Get?

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<v Speaker 2>What is that has that called? I think that's I

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<v Speaker 2>can't remember which gauge that is. Is that g or

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<v Speaker 2>O or it's huge? And I've seen some fantastic have

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<v Speaker 2>you ever seen on the internet? You can go online

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<v Speaker 2>on YouTube, so you're getting me all excited here. You

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<v Speaker 2>can go online and see people's backyard railroads that they

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<v Speaker 2>built themselves, where they you know, these grown men, these

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<v Speaker 2>grown old men like myself, can sit on these locomotives

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<v Speaker 2>and they pull you can pull kids and whatever in

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<v Speaker 2>the cars behind, and they have beautiful setups in their backyards.

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<v Speaker 2>Just just just fantastic, just really it's really awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>I cant of imagine when you get to that point,

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<v Speaker 1>laying track in your backyard and making you so that

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<v Speaker 1>they can pull humans it's probably getting it's getting even

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<v Speaker 1>more expensive though.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it's it's out. You know, that would be crazy,

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean that gets into other stuff like hardscape

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<v Speaker 2>and landscaping. You know, you're building little bridges made out

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<v Speaker 2>of stone. I mean it's really fantastic stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, yeah, okay, you Lenn Penzil, you had an awesome

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<v Speaker 1>gig as an aerospace engineer. You're a really smart guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Why did you start a personal finance blog so long ago?

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<v Speaker 1>And uh yeah, but just what leads someone who's got

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<v Speaker 1>this intense day job. You do quite well for yourself

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<v Speaker 1>to start blogging on the side.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody needs a hobby, right And before before I was

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<v Speaker 2>spending money on my model railroading, I had my son

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<v Speaker 2>was in Little league and so I had for seven

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<v Speaker 2>or eight years, and I used to volunteer for the

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<v Speaker 2>little league. I used to be a coach and a manager,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I got into the board and I was

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<v Speaker 2>a vice president and the president and that took you know,

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<v Speaker 2>that was a forty hour a week hobby for me.

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<v Speaker 2>On the side, it kept me very busy. Well, my

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<v Speaker 2>son got out of little league and left me, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I needed to find another hobby, just keep

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<v Speaker 2>from from running. My wife Crazy's who I affectionately called

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<v Speaker 2>the honeybee. So I decided, well, you know what, I

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<v Speaker 2>had been reading some personal finance blogs on the side.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, you know what, I could you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I have some thoughts on that myself, So why don't

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<v Speaker 2>I just try that just just as a hobby. I

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<v Speaker 2>was just trying to just kill some time. And I

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<v Speaker 2>started doing it, and lo and behold. I mean, within

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<v Speaker 2>six months it really became very popular, and it just

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<v Speaker 2>it just kind of blew up and grew from there.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like a different era, right, Like you couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>start a blog today and six months later be super

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<v Speaker 1>popular on the internet. I mean, I guess you know,

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<v Speaker 1>substack is, there's that model. Some people are successful at it.

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<v Speaker 1>But how has blogging changed since you first started?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, blogging is it's like the horse and buggy now

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<v Speaker 2>to today's you know, compared to the podcasting and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>doing your YouTube videos and TikTok and Instagram and all

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<v Speaker 2>that stuff, it's kind of an it's kind of seen.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's day is behind it. I mean there's still

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<v Speaker 2>you can still blog and there are blogs. Mine's still

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<v Speaker 2>going but it's nowhere near what it used to be.

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<v Speaker 2>But people have moved on and to bigger and better things.

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<v Speaker 2>And your podcast, for example, I mean that proves it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's where people are rightfully so. But back then, back

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<v Speaker 2>back in two thousand and eight two. I started in

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and eight. Back then, blogging was just getting started,

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<v Speaker 2>and I remember my first my first post, I was

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<v Speaker 2>just commenting on the on the blogging zyche s they

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<v Speaker 2>call it. I guess there was at that time. I

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<v Speaker 2>was there was like nine ours. Technica did a survey

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<v Speaker 2>and I think they said there was by then, by

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and eight, there were already like nine million

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<v Speaker 2>blogs out there. Wow, but it was still it was

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<v Speaker 2>still an ascending, ascending medium.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm sure it's kind of like podcasting, the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that there are so many but there are so few

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<v Speaker 1>that put out good enough content and put out content

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<v Speaker 1>for long enough to gain traction.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure even today that can happen. It's just that

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<v Speaker 2>there's you just don't get the numbers that you used

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<v Speaker 2>to get back in the day. You know, there were

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<v Speaker 2>years where I would get up to two million, uh

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<v Speaker 2>you know views a year, and those days are long

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<v Speaker 2>for me, those days are long gone. Part of that

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<v Speaker 2>is on me because I don't blog as much as

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<v Speaker 2>I used to. Things have changed, medium has changed, and

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<v Speaker 2>so that's why I, you know, that was the whole

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<v Speaker 2>impetus for this book. I had all those articles that

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<v Speaker 2>I've done, there were many were very popular and they

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<v Speaker 2>were popular. Reason for that popularity, boy, I think my

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<v Speaker 2>blog became so popular as it wasn't like your everyday

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<v Speaker 2>personal finance blog. It was how do I describe it?

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<v Speaker 2>I treated it like almost like a sitcom or like

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<v Speaker 2>a like a show.

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<v Speaker 1>There.

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<v Speaker 2>I had my family and not just my immediate family

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<v Speaker 2>my wife and my son and my daughter, but I

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<v Speaker 2>have my father in law who played a big part

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<v Speaker 2>in the roles. And there are characters in my life.

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<v Speaker 2>And I always used stories from that to relate back

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<v Speaker 2>to personal finance, and they were always I try to

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<v Speaker 2>make them very you know, there was humor stories, but

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<v Speaker 2>I always try to end with a lesson on personal

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<v Speaker 2>finance in each of the stories. And it resonated with

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<v Speaker 2>the with the Internet, and that's what got so famous

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<v Speaker 2>that it was really like a running sitcom for many years.

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<v Speaker 2>So and people became familiar with my family members and

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<v Speaker 2>that's just what happened, that's how that's how it became

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<v Speaker 2>very popular.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, I think stories are so powerful, right the people

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<v Speaker 1>can relate to a story, it's it's easier to learn

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<v Speaker 1>from it. It feels less dogmatic and more approachable, And I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's certainly a big part of your success. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>curious too, just you have this kind of fancy job

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<v Speaker 1>that's for smart people, and how do you think about

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<v Speaker 1>translating personal finance for people who might not have, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a ridiculously high IQ like you, Lenn? Does it take

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<v Speaker 1>Does it takes superl just but does it take a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of intelligence to be I've seen it on both

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<v Speaker 1>ends of the spectrum. Sometimes there are people who are

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<v Speaker 1>super duper smart and man for some reason, personal finance

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<v Speaker 1>just does not take with them. They don't seem to

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<v Speaker 1>get it. And then there are like, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>where do you think what's the intersection of intelligence and

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<v Speaker 1>personal finance?

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<v Speaker 2>Accumaty, I think intelligence. I think intelligence has nothing to

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<v Speaker 2>do at all with personal finance management, nothing at all.

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<v Speaker 2>I know smart, very smart, intelligent people whose personal finances

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<v Speaker 2>are a mess, absolute mess. I had coworkers back when

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<v Speaker 2>I was still working before I retired who were in

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<v Speaker 2>financial difficulties and they actually lost one of them lost

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<v Speaker 2>their security clearance because they got into financial trouble. Well

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<v Speaker 2>that's one of the you know, there's a thing with

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<v Speaker 2>security clearances where it's called adverse information. I mean, if

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<v Speaker 2>you do get into financial trouble, a lot of times

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<v Speaker 2>they'll pull your security clearance because they fear you're a danger,

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<v Speaker 2>you're susceptible to getting money from foreign.

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<v Speaker 1>Powers for whatever, black bail bribery.

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<v Speaker 2>It's right exactly. So, I mean, so there's you know

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<v Speaker 2>that happens, and it has nothing to do with you know,

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<v Speaker 2>your intelligence at all. It's it's really your organizational skills. Really,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's what it comes down to. How organized

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<v Speaker 2>are you and how detailed you are are willing to

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<v Speaker 2>be And that's that's I think that that makes the

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<v Speaker 2>difference between somebody who's good at managing their finances and

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<v Speaker 2>those who aren't.

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<v Speaker 1>You build your blog as being the off peat, offbeat

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<v Speaker 1>personal finance blog for responsible people. Why did you go

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<v Speaker 1>in that or why off beat and and why is

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<v Speaker 1>it for responsible folks? Is that that organization key? Is it?

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<v Speaker 1>Like if you can't be responsible, you're not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to succeed.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's part of it. Yeah, I mean that's part

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<v Speaker 2>of managing your finances is to me, that's that's part

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<v Speaker 2>of being a responsible adult, right, I mean if you

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, if you don't manage your finances, you don't

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<v Speaker 2>take the time or the care to manage your person,

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<v Speaker 2>you're not being a responsible adult. I'm sorry, that's just

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<v Speaker 2>that's my personal feeling. And the offbeat part was was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of the reason for the popularity in my blog,

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<v Speaker 2>I believe because back when I started the blog there

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<v Speaker 2>was there was a lot of personal finance blogs. The

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<v Speaker 2>thing is they were all they're very straightforward, right, They're

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<v Speaker 2>very very straightforward with their lesson. I mean to just

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<v Speaker 2>tell you, okay, here's how you balance a budget, here's

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<v Speaker 2>how you, you know, manage your finances, here's how you

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<v Speaker 2>decide whether it's smart or not to buy a house

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<v Speaker 2>rather than rent. Just very straightforward, wrote writing boring, and

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<v Speaker 2>I figured, you know what I gotta it probably helped. One,

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<v Speaker 2>it'd be easier to learn personal finance if you kind

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<v Speaker 2>of make it funny, offbeat, do something strange, And two,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think it sticks more. So it sticks

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<v Speaker 2>more in the head. If you can relate a funny

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<v Speaker 2>story or something to your personal finances, just something, I

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<v Speaker 2>think it'd be more entertaining, and it helped me differentiate

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<v Speaker 2>myself from everybody else. So and that's and it ended

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<v Speaker 2>up being true. That's that's what happened. I think people

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<v Speaker 2>just gravitated to, Hey, this personal finance blog. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>not like all the others.

0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you are very organized, you love spreadsheets. Yeah, see,

0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.200
<v Speaker 1>it's funny you say these things, and I'm like, not

0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.880
<v Speaker 1>like that. I'm still obsessed with personal finance. I'm very interested.

0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm not the most organized. I'm not the most detail

0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.760
<v Speaker 1>oriented spreadsheets. I'd rather like play Russian Ulette than get

0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:32.720
<v Speaker 1>in the mix with some spreadsheets. So yeah, I don't

0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.840
<v Speaker 1>know how I've succeeded at this point, knowing that that

0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.800
<v Speaker 1>you think organization is the key to that, because man,

0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:39.480
<v Speaker 1>I just I wish I could be more organized, but

0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm not. How do you run your household finances? And

0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.480
<v Speaker 1>what does that look like with the honeybee? Like you're

0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:49.360
<v Speaker 1>the CEO of your household finances, right, but you she's

0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.800
<v Speaker 1>the CFO, is that right? Or how do you Okay,

0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:53.440
<v Speaker 1>how do you delineate and what does that look like.

0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so one of the one of the themes throughout

0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.680
<v Speaker 2>throughout my blog whenever I always stress run your household

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.440
<v Speaker 2>like a business, and we do that in the Penzo household.

0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.080
<v Speaker 2>We do that. As you said, I am the household CEO.

0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.240
<v Speaker 2>My wife is the household CFO. We each have distinct

0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.160
<v Speaker 2>duties that we're responsible for. Mine is more big picture

0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.040
<v Speaker 2>stuff and long term strategic hers is more on the

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.280
<v Speaker 2>tactical level. So for me, it's handling the investments, the

0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:27.160
<v Speaker 2>household investments. It's looking at the our household strategic planning

0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 2>for how we're going to save for, for example, their

0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:36.000
<v Speaker 2>college educations, our retirement, our big ticket items for the

0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.280
<v Speaker 2>house in the coming years. For example. You know, you

0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:39.839
<v Speaker 2>don't just say, hey, I'm going to buy but most

0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 2>people don't, Hey I'm going to go buy a put

0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 2>a pool in this year. You know, here's somebody and

0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.400
<v Speaker 2>here No, You've got to usually save up and spend that.

0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.560
<v Speaker 2>You know, say that over several years, you get So

0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.240
<v Speaker 2>I'd set out a plan on how we're going to

0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.040
<v Speaker 2>save the set aside money to save for that to

0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.600
<v Speaker 2>big ticket purchases, and then uh, basically what we do

0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 2>is we meet once a month and we go over

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:05.720
<v Speaker 2>the individual budget, our household budget, how we're meeting our budget.

0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.960
<v Speaker 2>We go over that spreadsheet that you keep mentioning that

0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.320
<v Speaker 2>I do all the time very restart. So we go

0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.400
<v Speaker 2>over our spreadsheet of our income and our outgo. We

0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.839
<v Speaker 2>look and see if we're meeting our plans and if

0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.640
<v Speaker 2>we don't. And that's my wife, the household CFO. She's

0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.320
<v Speaker 2>the one that handles all that stuff, the tracking the income,

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.960
<v Speaker 2>the outgo, our expenses. I look it over and then

0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 2>if there's a problem, you know, that's my job to

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.640
<v Speaker 2>figure out, Okay, what do we got to do to

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.719
<v Speaker 2>change if we're if we're not meeting our budget, if

0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:38.920
<v Speaker 2>we're overspending, if we're not meeting our savings goals. That's

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.640
<v Speaker 2>my job to figure out, Okay, what are we going

0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.720
<v Speaker 2>to do to correct that? How do we fix our

0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.200
<v Speaker 2>monthly income and our outgo to do that?

0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.080
<v Speaker 1>So it's a real joint effort.

0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.479
<v Speaker 2>It is a total joint effort.

0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that is where some at least from

0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.680
<v Speaker 1>people who have a partner, is that where some of

0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.160
<v Speaker 1>them go wrong. They try to put it all on

0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.200
<v Speaker 1>the shoulders of one person. And and that they're not

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.719
<v Speaker 1>in it together or yeah, where a couples go wrong

0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 1>in finances.

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 2>The reason it's it's personal finance, right, and the personal

0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.600
<v Speaker 2>part was it's just everybody's different. There's no one right

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.400
<v Speaker 2>way to do anything. That's one thing that I've learned,

0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.520
<v Speaker 2>and I've tried to tell people, there's no right way

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.640
<v Speaker 2>to do it. A big, a big thing you have

0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to do first off is you have first decide, well,

0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.560
<v Speaker 2>your husband and the wife are they the same in

0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.560
<v Speaker 2>the spending category? Is one a big saver and one

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.760
<v Speaker 2>a big spender. You're gonna run your household probably differently

0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 2>than like me and my wife, for example, who we're

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 2>both savers. We don't. We're not big spenders. We live modestly,

0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.360
<v Speaker 2>we live way below our means, so it's a lot

0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 2>easier for us to go ahead and do what we're doing.

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 2>It makes perfect sense for us to do the way

0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 2>we're doing it because we are we're like minded. If

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 2>you have a big spender and a big savery, it

0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.760
<v Speaker 2>might be totally different. You might decide, for example, we

0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:56.000
<v Speaker 2>have joint joints checking accounts joint say you know everything's

0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.240
<v Speaker 2>all joint, but I can see if you have a

0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, a one's a big spender and one's a

0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.920
<v Speaker 2>big savor, you might have to have separate accounts and

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 2>figure out how you're going to handle that. How is

0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 2>the inc you have one income or two? You know,

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 2>how do you handle the income? Uh? You know from

0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.040
<v Speaker 2>if you have a big spender and a big savor,

0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:17.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, how does that work at? It's totally different.

0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:19.680
<v Speaker 1>Do you think, Lenn, you like? I think one of

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 1>the things you're known for is honesty. You you don't

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 1>necessarily sugarcoat things. Do you think personal finance content has

0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 1>become too nice? Is Is there too much telling folks

0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.120
<v Speaker 1>what they want to hear? I suppose what they need

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 1>to hear.

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I do believe that. I And that's another thing

0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.240
<v Speaker 2>that none of my stuff is that way. It's I'm

0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.240
<v Speaker 2>pretty much I just tell it like it is. You know,

0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:44.960
<v Speaker 2>you've got to face reality, if you know, if you're

0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:46.880
<v Speaker 2>not willing to come to the truth and say some

0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 2>difficult things, then nothing's going to get fixed. So, yes,

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 2>I do Joel believe that that sometimes they're a little

0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.480
<v Speaker 2>too nice and you've got to be a little harder,

0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, and just tell those hard truths. You have

0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.800
<v Speaker 2>to for kids too. You know, I'm a big I

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.000
<v Speaker 2>was a big believer in my kids growing they were

0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 2>growing up, to let them fail financially. So I had

0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:13.440
<v Speaker 2>no problem watching, although it hurt. I mean it hurt

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 2>to watch, but I purposely let them squander money and

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.520
<v Speaker 2>so they would learn that, you know, learn the hard

0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 2>way that you know, that's the only way they'd learn

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 2>is by making mistakes like.

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.040
<v Speaker 1>The BMX bike episode you relay in the.

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Book exactly Yes, that's that's exactly right.

0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about that real quick.

0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 2>So my son he had a bike that it needed breaks,

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.640
<v Speaker 2>and I told him, fix your brakes, you know, put

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.280
<v Speaker 2>your money. You have saved some money, so you can

0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 2>fix your breaks. Unless you do, you're not gonna able

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.560
<v Speaker 2>to ride that bike. Well, one day his finally the

0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.760
<v Speaker 2>bike got so bad that his brakes completely gave it.

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 2>He had none at all. He couldn't ride them without

0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 2>any breaks at all. So I said, well, okay, let's

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 2>go buy some Let's go buy get some new brakes

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 2>for your bike so you can go go ride it.

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.320
<v Speaker 2>And he said, well, I don't have any more money, dad,

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:07.920
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, and my son's down here. I

0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.720
<v Speaker 2>know he can hear me telling the story about it,

0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 2>so he's left. Yeah, So I told him, I go, well,

0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 2>get the money so you can buy your fix your brakes.

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.760
<v Speaker 2>You're not riding that bike anymore because it's dangerous. And

0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 2>he said, well, I don't have it dan. I said,

0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.160
<v Speaker 2>well why not? He said, because I bought a bb

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.159
<v Speaker 2>gun with my last of my money, you know. And

0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.880
<v Speaker 2>I was like, what were you thinking. I told you,

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:31.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, to take care of those breaks a while ago,

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.320
<v Speaker 2>and he just he said, well I didn't. And I said, well,

0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.600
<v Speaker 2>guess what. You're not riding your bike anymore until you

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.639
<v Speaker 2>earn enough money to to to repare those brakes. And

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.600
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't go anywhere. He was basically stuck at home

0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.680
<v Speaker 2>unless he wanted to walk somewhere. And he was mad.

0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.239
<v Speaker 2>He was so upset. And but anyways, that's that's what

0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.439
<v Speaker 2>I just and I held to my guns until and

0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.200
<v Speaker 2>he had to. I think it took him like a month,

0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:56.720
<v Speaker 2>at least more than a month to earn enough money

0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.560
<v Speaker 2>to actually be able to go anywhere. He was basically

0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.480
<v Speaker 2>stuck at home, you know. So that's the kind of

0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.159
<v Speaker 2>thing that I let him fail. It is what it is.

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 2>And you pay the.

0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.399
<v Speaker 1>Project that Lesson did that Lesson take, like, is that

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 1>the kind of stuff that really? Is that something that

0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.119
<v Speaker 1>he remembers? Now he's obviously downstairs laughing right now as

0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.199
<v Speaker 1>you tell the story. Did that have an impact on

0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.600
<v Speaker 1>his ability to connect the dots as far as personal

0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:20.560
<v Speaker 1>finances goes? No?

0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, no, And if you go through the book, my

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.240
<v Speaker 2>son's one of the stars of the book. You know,

0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.639
<v Speaker 2>he's one of the main characters in here. There's so

0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.919
<v Speaker 2>many things that he did wrong. God love him, but

0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:33.760
<v Speaker 2>you know there were lessons to be learned, not just

0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.159
<v Speaker 2>for him but for anybody reading this book. Things that

0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 2>he did that were amazing. He used to he's quite

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 2>a precocious teenager when he was fourteen, and there's the

0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.320
<v Speaker 2>stories in this book as well as he actually tried

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.399
<v Speaker 2>to sign up for a credit card as a fourteen

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:54.679
<v Speaker 2>year old and it was Discover, Discover credit card and Discover.

0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Actually he almost got it. And the only reason he

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.760
<v Speaker 2>didn't get it is because my wife opened the mail

0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.919
<v Speaker 2>one day and saw that Discover had sent my son. Uh,

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.960
<v Speaker 2>there looked like a bill from My wife was like,

0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.520
<v Speaker 2>what's going on? So she she opened up the bill

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.639
<v Speaker 2>and and found out that my son, who tried to

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.480
<v Speaker 2>use a slight alias to his name, but for some

0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.240
<v Speaker 2>reason to think, didn't put his social Security number down.

0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.680
<v Speaker 2>So and that was they were asking, hey, you're one

0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.679
<v Speaker 2>step away, you know, what's your social security You know

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:30.879
<v Speaker 2>you got your card, you know, and that's when we

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:35.560
<v Speaker 2>uh called discover and that's you can listen to the

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.840
<v Speaker 2>rest of the story from the book. But yeah, we

0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 2>caught him doing stuff like that, so he's done that.

0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 2>He did. There was another story in there where he

0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.440
<v Speaker 2>one day we opened up, went to the mailbox again

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.600
<v Speaker 2>and the wife, I think it was T Mobile at

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.360
<v Speaker 2>the time, there was a bill from T Mobile. Wasn't

0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.800
<v Speaker 2>just your normal bill in one a regular envelope. This

0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.080
<v Speaker 2>this was a bill that was in an eight and

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.679
<v Speaker 2>a half by eleven envelope and it was about a

0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.720
<v Speaker 2>half inch thick. And it turns out this was before

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 2>we had unlimited texting, so my son had just gotten

0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:15.200
<v Speaker 2>his cell phone and the cell phone bill, the texting

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.679
<v Speaker 2>bill was well over one thousand dollars and it was

0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.080
<v Speaker 2>a half inch thick. You'd have to see. I actually

0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 2>I actually show part of the bill in the book,

0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.679
<v Speaker 2>but it was like a half inch. There was like

0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.360
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and forty one pages long the bill of

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.240
<v Speaker 2>all the stuff that had happened for that month, and

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.360
<v Speaker 2>it was I think it was over one thousand dollars.

0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 2>So that was fun trying to get that fixed as well.

0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.639
<v Speaker 2>That's just the taste of some of the stuff my

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.960
<v Speaker 2>son did. We share that kind of stuff in the

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.000
<v Speaker 2>book for him.

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.200
<v Speaker 1>You've at one point in the book you say our

0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.640
<v Speaker 1>spending habits reveal our priorities in life. Do you think

0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:53.280
<v Speaker 1>is it just that some folks don't value financial freedom

0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:57.400
<v Speaker 1>as much as the stuff that they can get from Amazon, Target,

0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:01.600
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is. Yeah? Do people just value different things

0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.239
<v Speaker 1>and you are one of those people. Maybe I'm one

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.880
<v Speaker 1>of those people who value financial freedom and other people

0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.560
<v Speaker 1>are like, I don't know, it's just not really something

0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:10.080
<v Speaker 1>I care about.

0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think they're just short term thinkers. I don't

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.879
<v Speaker 2>think they think of the ramifications of spending now and

0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 2>not saving later. I just they don't really. They don't

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.359
<v Speaker 2>look at debt. I like Joel, I know you and

0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.760
<v Speaker 2>I we both look at debt as slavery almost. It's

0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:29.000
<v Speaker 2>it's financial slavery. You're putting chains on yourself every time

0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.239
<v Speaker 2>you take a loan out. You're you're you're reducing your

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 2>spending power. You know this obviously, you know you're reducing

0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.919
<v Speaker 2>your future buying power. You're you're basically sacrificing your future

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.160
<v Speaker 2>for now. And I think most people don't even think

0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 2>of it that way. I think most people just think

0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.320
<v Speaker 2>it's instant gratification and I'm you know, I spent my

0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.119
<v Speaker 2>mon I'm happy, and they're not even thinking about the

0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.360
<v Speaker 2>impacts down the road. And I think the further you're

0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:53.640
<v Speaker 2>willing to look down the road, I think, the more

0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:57.119
<v Speaker 2>willing you are to embrace the discipline needed to to

0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 2>not to stop doing that. And it's just a way

0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:00.000
<v Speaker 2>about how you think about.

0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 1>There's also been like a kind of cultural movement to

0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.879
<v Speaker 1>make it to normalize. I guess, getting the thing you

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.040
<v Speaker 1>want when you want it as quickly as possible at

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:14.200
<v Speaker 1>the costs or the additional amount of money that you're

0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 1>going to pay to get that thing quickly, who cares,

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:20.840
<v Speaker 1>it's fine. But whether that's buy now, pay later, right,

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.240
<v Speaker 1>it's it's well, you actually sign up for this annual

0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:28.200
<v Speaker 1>subscription to Target, Walmart and Amazon, and then you'll get

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.960
<v Speaker 1>your stuff in you know, like thirty minutes instead of

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 1>even two days. Right, So do you think part of

0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.560
<v Speaker 1>it is just the normalization that everyone's like, well, that's

0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.520
<v Speaker 1>just that's just the way it's done land your old school.

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well I am. I am old school, And that's funny.

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.040
<v Speaker 2>Now we are so spoiled by getting things within a

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 2>day or two. I mean, I remember, I'll do my

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:52.080
<v Speaker 2>old man thing. Now. I remember you'd send away for

0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 2>something in the mail it would take weeks to get

0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:58.280
<v Speaker 2>just via mail you wanted to buy something. And Amazon

0:22:58.320 --> 0:22:59.800
<v Speaker 2>is so spoiled as you get it within a day

0:22:59.920 --> 0:23:03.320
<v Speaker 2>or the same day for something. It's just crazy. But yeah,

0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:05.680
<v Speaker 2>that's how it's just it's just kind of a different world.

0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.280
<v Speaker 2>But you have to you have to think of how

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 2>it impacts you down the road yourself. You know, like

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I said, it's those chains dead dead are chains on

0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:15.800
<v Speaker 2>your future. And you don't want to do that. You

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.240
<v Speaker 2>don't want to shackle yourself. It's easy though, to do

0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:21.320
<v Speaker 2>that when you're young. It's just when you're younger, you

0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.400
<v Speaker 2>just can't imagine being older. You know, you can't imagine

0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:26.960
<v Speaker 2>being sixty or you know, I'm sixty years old old.

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.639
<v Speaker 2>Now it's like it's some you can't. It's just you

0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 2>can't fathom it. But once you get here quick, it's

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:35.919
<v Speaker 2>it's very fast, and so before you know it, if

0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:37.600
<v Speaker 2>you're not paying attention, it sneaks up on you.

0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:39.119
<v Speaker 1>All Right, I've got more questions I want to get

0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:40.840
<v Speaker 1>to with you, Lenn, including I want to talk about

0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:42.960
<v Speaker 1>your aunt Doris and your grandpa, a lot of family

0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:46.119
<v Speaker 1>members that make appearances in your blog and in your

0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:48.280
<v Speaker 1>new book. So we'll get to some more questions with

0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Len Penzo right after this. Right, we're back still talk

0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:02.200
<v Speaker 1>with Lenpenzo talking about his new book, True Money Stories,

0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:07.320
<v Speaker 1>and Len's personal finance writings have I've always enjoyed them,

0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.320
<v Speaker 1>and Len is very honest in his approach to personal finance,

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.280
<v Speaker 1>which I think is something that is missing in a

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.360
<v Speaker 1>lot of personal finance content these days. I'm curious, like,

0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.280
<v Speaker 1>how do you think about And I really don't want

0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:22.879
<v Speaker 1>to get political, and we try to stay away from

0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:26.040
<v Speaker 1>politics most of the time on the show, but it

0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:29.280
<v Speaker 1>is true that like political leaders, legislation, those things have

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.760
<v Speaker 1>an impact on our economy, they have an impact on

0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:34.800
<v Speaker 1>our personal finances. Like that stuff, the things that happened

0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:37.080
<v Speaker 1>at the national and the state level and the local level,

0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:40.880
<v Speaker 1>they trickled down and the impact packed us as consumers,

0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:43.399
<v Speaker 1>and then people around in different parts of the country

0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.240
<v Speaker 1>are impacted differently too, Right, I think about like offshoring

0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:51.119
<v Speaker 1>and how that's impacted in particular people in smaller Midwestern towns,

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.880
<v Speaker 1>manufacturing towns. And you talk about like there's a tendency

0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:57.920
<v Speaker 1>I guess for some folks to blame circumstances for a

0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.600
<v Speaker 1>lack of their ability to make progress. But it is

0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:04.639
<v Speaker 1>also true, right that more difficult circumstances do hamper our

0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:08.119
<v Speaker 1>ability to make progress. How do you think about that dichotomy.

0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, there there are cases where people in personal finance

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:15.680
<v Speaker 2>they run into difficulties and it's through no fault of

0:25:15.720 --> 0:25:18.119
<v Speaker 2>their own. I mean, that's just given. And people have

0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:24.560
<v Speaker 2>health issues, people have unexpected expenses that come up, natural

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:27.760
<v Speaker 2>disasters come up. It will wipe you out for certain things.

0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:31.399
<v Speaker 2>I get it, I get it, But there's also there

0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 2>still doesn't absolve people of the obligation if at all possible,

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 2>to save up for those emergencies. If you can. Again,

0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:42.399
<v Speaker 2>I realize there's certain health things you could there's nothing

0:25:42.440 --> 0:25:44.600
<v Speaker 2>you could ever do. There's nothing you could ever do

0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:47.600
<v Speaker 2>to avoid that, And that's just that's unfortunate, and that's

0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:51.240
<v Speaker 2>not on the on people. Where I get rough with people, though,

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:55.400
<v Speaker 2>is when things come up, For example, maybe they get

0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:58.640
<v Speaker 2>a car accident and they have damages to their vehicle

0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:01.960
<v Speaker 2>that are you know, fives six eight thousand dollars and

0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:05.000
<v Speaker 2>they don't have their insurance or they don't have enough

0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:07.359
<v Speaker 2>and they didn't have enough insurance to cover it, and

0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:09.640
<v Speaker 2>they don't have their savings, they don't have an emergency

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 2>savings account to cover that. You know, that I believe

0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:15.800
<v Speaker 2>is on them. I think you're one of your first

0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:19.800
<v Speaker 2>responsibilities is to somehow make sure you build up an

0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 2>emergency savings account as fast as possible to at least

0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:26.160
<v Speaker 2>be able to handle a new engine in your car

0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:28.360
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. You know, you've got to have

0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:32.680
<v Speaker 2>a significant amount of emergency savings built up as fast

0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:36.560
<v Speaker 2>as you can. And that comes even before you're saving

0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.080
<v Speaker 2>for your retirement. That has to be the first thing,

0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:41.720
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion. And if you don't do that, I mean,

0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:43.919
<v Speaker 2>and that's on you. I mean, it's not hard to

0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 2>set aside. It's not asking a lot to set aside

0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:50.920
<v Speaker 2>a small percentage of your paycheck every week, even if

0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:54.199
<v Speaker 2>it means foregoing things you have to do it. That

0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:57.159
<v Speaker 2>is again to me, your that's a responsible person will do.

0:26:57.240 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 1>That's what's the biggest barrier you see for most peop

0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:02.120
<v Speaker 1>people from getting to that point where they're like, yeah,

0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:04.879
<v Speaker 1>I probably should do something. My personal finances are not

0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:06.800
<v Speaker 1>headed into good direction. I need to start thinking about

0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:09.600
<v Speaker 1>my future and my near term future because I don't

0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:11.639
<v Speaker 1>have the cash in the bank. What are the biggest

0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:15.160
<v Speaker 1>hurdles you see for most people? Or they're like they

0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:17.280
<v Speaker 1>can't quite get there or bridge that gap? What are

0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:17.920
<v Speaker 1>they doing wrong?

0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes? I think what they're probably doing is they're just

0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:26.479
<v Speaker 2>not willing to forego things that they want that they

0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:29.840
<v Speaker 2>don't need, that they could be saving, sacrificing, Okay, doing sacrificing.

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:33.240
<v Speaker 2>For example, when we first bought the house i'm in

0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:37.040
<v Speaker 2>now currently, I know the honey you be and I

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:40.840
<v Speaker 2>made a terrible mistake before we bought this house where

0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:42.480
<v Speaker 2>the honey be wanted to be a stay at home

0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:46.160
<v Speaker 2>mom and said, yeah, okay, that's great, so go ahead,

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:49.280
<v Speaker 2>and she quit her job right before we bought this house,

0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:52.600
<v Speaker 2>which lowered the amount of income we had for the

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:56.440
<v Speaker 2>house and to get into this house. After that happened.

0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean we were pinch and pennies. Let me tell you,

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 2>for at least two years. I mean, we weren't doing

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of anything, eating rice and beans, not going

0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:08.720
<v Speaker 2>a luxury week weekend for us. Our luxury night out

0:28:08.800 --> 0:28:11.600
<v Speaker 2>was going to McDonald's once a month. You know that

0:28:11.720 --> 0:28:14.359
<v Speaker 2>for for the first two year poor we were house poor.

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:16.879
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we were house poor. I mean that's an

0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:20.920
<v Speaker 2>extreme example. But I didn't run myself into debt despite

0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.080
<v Speaker 2>that just because said, hey, well we're going to have fun.

0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:26.399
<v Speaker 2>We deserve it. Anyways, No, we sucked it up, and

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 2>that again that was partially a mistake on my part,

0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:32.800
<v Speaker 2>for you know, we shouldn't shouldn't have shouldn't have her

0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:36.520
<v Speaker 2>probably leave her job quite so soon. But anyways, the

0:28:36.560 --> 0:28:38.800
<v Speaker 2>point is, I think you just have to be willing

0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:41.880
<v Speaker 2>to suck it up and make some sacrifices for a

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.520
<v Speaker 2>little while just to get to where you need to be.

0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:47.200
<v Speaker 2>So that that's that's how I feel anyway.

0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:52.840
<v Speaker 1>So I think probably a much bigger percentage of Americans

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 1>could reach financial independence than currently do. But then there's

0:28:57.400 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 1>other people who say, I think everybody can reach can

0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.320
<v Speaker 1>can chief financial independence, especially in a country like the

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:05.280
<v Speaker 1>United States, would you agree with that assessment or do

0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 1>you think no, Like there's some people who just it's

0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:09.320
<v Speaker 1>it's not gonna be possible for them.

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, it's it's harder now, there's no doubt about it.

0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Gen Z and to a lesser extent, the millennials are

0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:22.680
<v Speaker 2>they they're screwed compared to Gen X and the Baby

0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Boomers and the what do they call the Silent generation

0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:30.120
<v Speaker 2>or whatever? They are totally it's it's not fair. It's

0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:32.400
<v Speaker 2>it's due to the monetary system. It's just the way

0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 2>our debt based monetary system is. It's we're in a

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 2>position now where the way it's set up, they were doomed.

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.480
<v Speaker 2>It was it doomed them from the beginning. Once Nixon

0:29:41.600 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 2>got us off the d anchored US dollar from gold,

0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:48.000
<v Speaker 2>that put us on the path to where we're at now.

0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:50.240
<v Speaker 1>So what do they have to do differently? Young young

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:52.840
<v Speaker 1>listeners who are like, wait, you just told me I'm screwed?

0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:54.240
<v Speaker 1>What do I have to do differently.

0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Than well, you're screwed in that it's it's so difficult.

0:29:57.400 --> 0:30:01.479
<v Speaker 2>Now you're not totally screwed. Let me, You've got a

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:06.240
<v Speaker 2>lot harder admittedly than gen X and baby boomers. You know,

0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:09.240
<v Speaker 2>gen X, it was no problem even in the eighties,

0:30:09.280 --> 0:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>you could work at a grocery store. I know this

0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:14.400
<v Speaker 2>for a fact. And I have friends who didn't have

0:30:14.520 --> 0:30:17.360
<v Speaker 2>They just had regular blue collar jobs and they had houses.

0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:20.200
<v Speaker 2>They were able to afford a house in their twenties

0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:23.280
<v Speaker 2>with a blue collar job. You can't do that anymore.

0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:27.840
<v Speaker 2>And that's that's the fault of our monetary system basically,

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:30.720
<v Speaker 2>but that's what's made things so much tougher for them.

0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:33.440
<v Speaker 2>I look at my kids as well, my gen Z

0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:38.000
<v Speaker 2>kids both have good jobs, and they can't afford a house.

0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:40.000
<v Speaker 2>They can't afford a house. You know, if this was

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:41.120
<v Speaker 2>the eighties or nineties.

0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Year, also in Southern California.

0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 2>Admittedly, yes, it'd be easier to afford a house somewhere

0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:51.960
<v Speaker 2>else outside of Southern California. But still it's still difficult.

0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:54.720
<v Speaker 2>It's still difficult. So how do you overcome that. Well,

0:30:54.800 --> 0:30:56.960
<v Speaker 2>you just have to I know this is not satisfying,

0:30:56.960 --> 0:31:00.320
<v Speaker 2>and I don't mean this to sound glib. You just

0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:03.480
<v Speaker 2>have to work harder. It's just harder. You're just gonna

0:31:03.520 --> 0:31:07.880
<v Speaker 2>have to do save more, You're gonna have to invest.

0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:12.480
<v Speaker 2>You might have to even take bigger risks with your

0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 2>investments to get bigger returns. The beauty of that is

0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:19.480
<v Speaker 2>and this is a mistake I made when I was

0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:23.320
<v Speaker 2>younger as well, investing in your twenty The beautiful the

0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 2>beautiful thing about being in your twenties and thirties and

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:29.280
<v Speaker 2>investing is you have time to make mistakes. You can

0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 2>take those risks and and survive those mistakes because you

0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.640
<v Speaker 2>have the benefit of time to recover. Somebody who's older

0:31:37.760 --> 0:31:40.360
<v Speaker 2>can't do that. That's why older people have to, you know,

0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:43.320
<v Speaker 2>invest in much safer investments because they can't afford a

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:45.120
<v Speaker 2>big downturn. So when you say when you're younger you

0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:46.280
<v Speaker 2>can take bigger risks, when.

0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:48.880
<v Speaker 1>You say take more risks as younger investors, what do

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 1>you mean. Are you saying, like, go all in on

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:53.240
<v Speaker 1>the latest cryptocurrency len Is that your advice?

0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, one, I'm not big on and I do discuss

0:31:57.080 --> 0:32:03.720
<v Speaker 2>cryptocurrencies in my body and precious metals as well. I'm

0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:06.440
<v Speaker 2>not a big fan of cryptocurrencies at all, although I

0:32:06.480 --> 0:32:08.320
<v Speaker 2>am a big fan of precious metals.

0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:10.480
<v Speaker 1>So what does it look like to swing bigger than

0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:11.440
<v Speaker 1>as a younger investor?

0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So make sure you're not putting anything in fixed

0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:17.520
<v Speaker 2>income bond. I mean, you got to be invested in

0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:18.840
<v Speaker 2>the stock market, and I'm not going to tell you

0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:21.720
<v Speaker 2>what to invest in. You've got to do your own

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:24.800
<v Speaker 2>due diligence there. But you do not play it safe.

0:32:25.120 --> 0:32:27.479
<v Speaker 2>Do not do any stable value you have your four

0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:29.320
<v Speaker 2>O one K, don't do it. Don't put anything in

0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 2>your stable value fund. If you're in your twenties or

0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:34.880
<v Speaker 2>or your thir thirties, I wouldn't and maybe you should.

0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:37.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, don't take advice for me this. I'm just saying,

0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:38.959
<v Speaker 2>if I had to do it over in my twenties

0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:42.640
<v Speaker 2>and thirties, I would have been much less risk averse.

0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:46.160
<v Speaker 2>I would have been much more risky with my investments.

0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:48.640
<v Speaker 2>I'd have been much better off. It's your only it's

0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:49.800
<v Speaker 2>the only way out. Really.

0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:51.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I remember when I first started investing, I was

0:32:51.920 --> 0:32:54.920
<v Speaker 1>investing in target date funds, and that was kind of

0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 1>what had been recommended to me. And I remember at

0:32:57.640 --> 0:33:00.239
<v Speaker 1>the more research I did, I was like, target day

0:33:00.280 --> 0:33:03.720
<v Speaker 1>funds are great, low cost target day funds through some

0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:08.880
<v Speaker 1>of the Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity. But I'm also really young,

0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:12.640
<v Speaker 1>and I really don't even know that I need this

0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:15.400
<v Speaker 1>sort of bond exposure in my portfolio at all. So

0:33:15.480 --> 0:33:17.840
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't that target day funds are bad. They just

0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:21.920
<v Speaker 1>weren't as risky as I was willing and wanted to be,

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:24.080
<v Speaker 1>given what I was trying to accomplish. And I say,

0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:26.600
<v Speaker 1>especially in those twenties, the target date fund for some

0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:30.240
<v Speaker 1>people up to you could be a little too risk averse. Even.

0:33:30.440 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think anybody in their twenties and threes right now,

0:33:32.800 --> 0:33:36.280
<v Speaker 2>you're losing out to inflation. I mean the bonds are

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.640
<v Speaker 2>You're losing money. I don't care. You're not even stable

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 2>vesting in bonds just to keep a little bit, you're

0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:45.040
<v Speaker 2>losing money. I would stay far away from that and

0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:48.080
<v Speaker 2>try to, like I said, be aggressive, do your research.

0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:52.080
<v Speaker 2>There are sectors that are doing very well even in

0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:57.520
<v Speaker 2>this environment, that are doing much better than others. Be diversified,

0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:01.520
<v Speaker 2>but you know, take risks. You have to. You have

0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:04.720
<v Speaker 2>to somehow figure out a way to get bigger returns.

0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:07.480
<v Speaker 2>That's all I can say. It's really it's not very

0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:11.480
<v Speaker 2>satisfying right now. It's our monetary system has got everybody

0:34:11.640 --> 0:34:13.759
<v Speaker 2>over a barrel right now, the younger generations.

0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:16.640
<v Speaker 1>It's terrible talk to me about the other members of

0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:18.680
<v Speaker 1>your family who make an appearance in the book and

0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:21.799
<v Speaker 1>the impact they've had on you. Your Aunt Doris, Grandpa right,

0:34:21.840 --> 0:34:24.640
<v Speaker 1>who else who had an impact on you from a

0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:26.120
<v Speaker 1>personal finance perspective.

0:34:26.520 --> 0:34:28.640
<v Speaker 2>One of the characters in there in this book is

0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:31.080
<v Speaker 2>my cousin Kevin, and he's mostly in my blind taste

0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:34.120
<v Speaker 2>test challenges, So I have a whole bunch of blind tastes.

0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:36.080
<v Speaker 2>You're talking about popular things on my blog, one of

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:41.080
<v Speaker 2>the more popular segments in my blog. But he is

0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:44.840
<v Speaker 2>an accountant. He's retired now, but he's the one that

0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:48.560
<v Speaker 2>really got me thinking about looking at debt as financial slavery.

0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:53.640
<v Speaker 2>And he's also very good about being organized and watching

0:34:53.640 --> 0:34:58.799
<v Speaker 2>your money and always putting your money to work and

0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:02.440
<v Speaker 2>making sure that your money's working for you. So my

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:05.719
<v Speaker 2>cousin Kevin, I think had the biggest impact. But there's

0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:10.720
<v Speaker 2>others as well. I have my aunt Doris, who you mentioned.

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:15.239
<v Speaker 2>She's she's passed away ninety four, several years ago now,

0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:23.040
<v Speaker 2>but she lived a very she lived well, but she's

0:35:23.080 --> 0:35:27.319
<v Speaker 2>a very frugal person and despite her limited income, she

0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:30.480
<v Speaker 2>did very well. I don't know, I don't know how

0:35:30.480 --> 0:35:33.120
<v Speaker 2>she and if she invested or what she did. But

0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:36.319
<v Speaker 2>she just showed me that you know, you can. You

0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:39.640
<v Speaker 2>can enjoy life. You don't have to spending money. Is

0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:42.279
<v Speaker 2>not all about light. What life is about, right, It's

0:35:42.320 --> 0:35:46.080
<v Speaker 2>about living your life and enjoying the things you have

0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:49.399
<v Speaker 2>and family and things like that as well.

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:52.400
<v Speaker 1>So you're making me think about value formation, which is

0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:56.560
<v Speaker 1>something that you talk about some like is is sometimes

0:35:56.719 --> 0:36:00.880
<v Speaker 1>like runaway spending habits and an inability to really figure

0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:04.040
<v Speaker 1>out personal finance? Is it a lack of being able

0:36:04.160 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 1>to connect your values to what's happening with your money.

0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:11.279
<v Speaker 1>How important is like the like we have this thing

0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:13.319
<v Speaker 1>on on how to money dot com, like people can

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:14.960
<v Speaker 1>go through the why behind their money. We ask help

0:36:15.040 --> 0:36:16.880
<v Speaker 1>them go through a bunch of questions to figure out

0:36:16.960 --> 0:36:20.280
<v Speaker 1>what they care about so they can link their money

0:36:20.320 --> 0:36:23.680
<v Speaker 1>habits to those deeper values that they that they have

0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:26.520
<v Speaker 1>that they espouse. Do you think that maybe that deeper

0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:28.240
<v Speaker 1>step is something a lot of people have missed?

0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I do, Actually, yes, you gotta. I think a

0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:35.040
<v Speaker 2>lot of people these days, I think they're tied to

0:36:36.320 --> 0:36:39.239
<v Speaker 2>their tied to the almighty dollar. Actually, here here's another thing.

0:36:39.239 --> 0:36:41.400
<v Speaker 2>I guess I should go back to my indoors as

0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:45.120
<v Speaker 2>well as it's really not about I know people have

0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:46.799
<v Speaker 2>these dollar amounts that they have. I'm like, oh, I

0:36:46.800 --> 0:36:49.120
<v Speaker 2>got to have this much money by this time, you know,

0:36:49.200 --> 0:36:52.240
<v Speaker 2>on my life. Yeah, you have to have a target

0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:56.600
<v Speaker 2>on there. But again the dollar, it's not just chasing

0:36:56.600 --> 0:37:00.960
<v Speaker 2>the dollars, right, It's just about it's your life, your

0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:05.440
<v Speaker 2>life experiences, your family. There's more to life than money itself.

0:37:06.000 --> 0:37:10.399
<v Speaker 2>That being said, money is required, especially as you get older,

0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:12.200
<v Speaker 2>you better make sure you have enough of it to

0:37:13.120 --> 0:37:16.919
<v Speaker 2>at least live modestly. And it really isn't that much

0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:19.840
<v Speaker 2>actually my family for example, or even today, I'm just

0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:22.840
<v Speaker 2>like we're at right now, this is the end of

0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:26.319
<v Speaker 2>September and I've just we just had our review a

0:37:26.360 --> 0:37:29.640
<v Speaker 2>few weeks ago, are previous for August, and we had

0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:32.800
<v Speaker 2>only burned through I think sixty five thousand dollars my house,

0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:37.560
<v Speaker 2>So sixty five thousand dollars through August, So you really

0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:39.239
<v Speaker 2>don't and that's with a lot of splurges. And we

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:43.160
<v Speaker 2>had spent some money for us little splurge things on

0:37:43.880 --> 0:37:46.000
<v Speaker 2>trips or what have you. It could have been much

0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:48.640
<v Speaker 2>less than that. So I mean that's all Evan, you know,

0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:50.439
<v Speaker 2>that's just having a lot of fun, and we spend

0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:53.799
<v Speaker 2>only sixty five thousand dollars. You'd be surprised how little

0:37:53.840 --> 0:37:56.320
<v Speaker 2>you can get by on as you get older. People

0:37:56.360 --> 0:37:58.600
<v Speaker 2>think it you actually kind of spend less as you

0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:02.000
<v Speaker 2>get older, most people. I mean, if you're not wanting

0:38:02.040 --> 0:38:03.920
<v Speaker 2>to travel all around the world and everything, yeah, you

0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:05.839
<v Speaker 2>can spend a lot, a lot less than you might think.

0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:08.919
<v Speaker 1>So do you think those commercials about oh, you're gonna

0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:11.279
<v Speaker 1>you need three point two million dollars by the time

0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:14.280
<v Speaker 1>you were tied? Are those overblown? Is an utterly ridiculous Yeah, fanciful,

0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:15.040
<v Speaker 1>over blown.

0:38:15.040 --> 0:38:18.799
<v Speaker 2>Okay, they're overblown, totally overblown. Yeah, you know, it all

0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:20.960
<v Speaker 2>comes down to you, right what you how are you

0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:25.080
<v Speaker 2>willing to live your life? You know, again, we're modest spenders.

0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:28.920
<v Speaker 2>We're not big Me and the Honeybee. We don't you know,

0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:30.600
<v Speaker 2>we don't do a lot of fun things. We're gonna

0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:32.960
<v Speaker 2>go We're gonna go to Cabo San Lucas later this

0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:35.839
<v Speaker 2>year for a week. Maybe we've got a Hawaii trip

0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:38.360
<v Speaker 2>next year, but that's it. I mean, those are our trips,

0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:40.839
<v Speaker 2>you know, one or two trips a year and and

0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:43.240
<v Speaker 2>then the rest is just living life, being with family

0:38:43.320 --> 0:38:46.040
<v Speaker 2>and doing family things. And it's really you know, you

0:38:46.040 --> 0:38:47.640
<v Speaker 2>don't spend a lot of money if you and we

0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:49.520
<v Speaker 2>enjoy and we have a fun, We have a very

0:38:49.520 --> 0:38:52.200
<v Speaker 2>satisfying life. So you know, you don't need a lot

0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 2>you really don't.

0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:55.520
<v Speaker 1>I want to talk a little bit about retirement and

0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:58.280
<v Speaker 1>one of the most popular maybe maybe the most popular

0:38:58.360 --> 0:38:59.960
<v Speaker 1>post on your blog of all time. We'll get to

0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:02.319
<v Speaker 1>a few more questions with len Penzo right after this.

0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:13.200
<v Speaker 1>We're back still talk with my friend len Penzo and

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:17.280
<v Speaker 1>talking about his his new book which is called True

0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:20.360
<v Speaker 1>Money Stories, and it's a compilation of a lot of

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:23.200
<v Speaker 1>his most successful blog posts throughout the years. And uh

0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:25.879
<v Speaker 1>and he's been blogging for quite some time. And then

0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:28.400
<v Speaker 1>on your blog, one of I think my favorite things

0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:30.399
<v Speaker 1>we talk about on How to Money when it comes

0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:34.240
<v Speaker 1>out every year we tend to is your annual sandwich survey.

0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:38.920
<v Speaker 1>It's so just like meat and potatoes basic, it's actually

0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:42.040
<v Speaker 1>more like baloney and white bread, I guess.

0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:44.920
<v Speaker 2>But it's wheat and the survey.

0:39:44.960 --> 0:39:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, my bad, bread, My bad. But like, how have

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:51.920
<v Speaker 1>you had why why did you start writing that? And

0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:54.799
<v Speaker 1>what have you seen? Talk about? Like inflation at the

0:39:54.800 --> 0:39:58.000
<v Speaker 1>grocery store. You know, that's like instead of talking about

0:39:58.000 --> 0:39:59.840
<v Speaker 1>the weather, that's what we talk about now as humans.

0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>How what have you seen like as you've been writing

0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 1>this survey over the years. What's the impact?

0:40:04.160 --> 0:40:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, I started that survey in two thous I started

0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:08.319
<v Speaker 2>that the first year I started the blog, and it

0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:10.320
<v Speaker 2>was really popular. I mean, it got the I couldn't

0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:12.560
<v Speaker 2>believe the first year I did it, I got got

0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:14.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot of good feedback on it. I was like, well, hey, okay,

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:16.880
<v Speaker 2>I'll do it. I didn't really plan on it being

0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:19.000
<v Speaker 2>an annual thing. It was just a one time thing,

0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:22.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, just check. I wanted to check out the price.

0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:24.799
<v Speaker 2>You know, my kids were in school. The price of

0:40:24.800 --> 0:40:27.040
<v Speaker 2>a school lunch was I forget what it was way

0:40:27.040 --> 0:40:29.160
<v Speaker 2>back then, a buck, buck in a quarter or whatever.

0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:29.839
<v Speaker 2>And I wanted to know.

0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:31.880
<v Speaker 1>If it was a good old piper, But was it

0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:33.000
<v Speaker 1>cheaper to.

0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Make a sandwich, you know, every day for your kids

0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:38.799
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, give them the banana and the

0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and the little mini bag of chips and is that

0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:44.120
<v Speaker 2>cheaper than the school lunch? So that's what started it.

0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:46.640
<v Speaker 2>So I said, well, you know, I'll pick ten because

0:40:46.840 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 2>everybody has their favorite sandwiches. I said, well, I'll pick

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:52.719
<v Speaker 2>ten different sandwiches. I'll set up the ingredients for you know,

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.440
<v Speaker 2>as a benchmark. You know, you know, so much mustard

0:40:56.480 --> 0:40:59.080
<v Speaker 2>and so much mayonnaise, and you know, two slices of

0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:02.520
<v Speaker 2>wheat bread anyways, cheese, whatever. Set up all those benchmarks,

0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:04.800
<v Speaker 2>and I'll measure the prices of those benchmarks. I'll assemble

0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:08.120
<v Speaker 2>the sandwiches and come up with a price for each sandwich. Okay,

0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:12.040
<v Speaker 2>So long story short, there is every year it has

0:41:12.120 --> 0:41:14.120
<v Speaker 2>always come out the price of the sandwich in a

0:41:14.120 --> 0:41:16.960
<v Speaker 2>brown bag lunch is always far less than a school lunch,

0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:19.640
<v Speaker 2>the price of a school lunch. And it's healthier for

0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:23.600
<v Speaker 2>you too. Okay, But what I've searned since then, the

0:41:23.640 --> 0:41:25.680
<v Speaker 2>price has gone up, and this price has gone down.

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:27.880
<v Speaker 2>I think back in two thousand and nine, the average

0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:31.600
<v Speaker 2>price of all ten sandwiches was about fifty four cents

0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:34.400
<v Speaker 2>something like that, and now it's up to a dollar

0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:36.560
<v Speaker 2>ten or something like that. As the average price up

0:41:36.560 --> 0:41:39.120
<v Speaker 2>a sandwich. Now it's over over it, so it's pretty

0:41:39.160 --> 0:41:42.040
<v Speaker 2>much doubled. But in those years the price has gone up.

0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:45.759
<v Speaker 2>Right before the pan then it was dropping the pandemic

0:41:45.840 --> 0:41:49.719
<v Speaker 2>it made a spike, and then it dropped one year,

0:41:49.719 --> 0:41:51.799
<v Speaker 2>and then this year the price went up again. So

0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:53.719
<v Speaker 2>this is the prices are as high as they've ever

0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:56.800
<v Speaker 2>been on those sandwiches. But there's seventeen years of data,

0:41:57.480 --> 0:41:59.719
<v Speaker 2>and if you go to my article, you'll see the

0:41:59.719 --> 0:42:02.960
<v Speaker 2>price is over those seventeen years of all the sandwiches.

0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:05.880
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's really turned into it's really quite interesting.

0:42:05.920 --> 0:42:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's so much data there that it's quite fascinating.

0:42:08.840 --> 0:42:10.319
<v Speaker 1>He has kind of taken on a life of its own.

0:42:10.880 --> 0:42:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Your sandwich survey.

0:42:11.880 --> 0:42:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes it has, Yeah, Yeah, it absolutely has.

0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:16.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it is. Well, it is fascinating to see it's

0:42:16.160 --> 0:42:21.000
<v Speaker 1>such the lowest common denominator thing. And yeah, it's something

0:42:21.000 --> 0:42:23.359
<v Speaker 1>that we're making every day. At least we are at

0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:25.080
<v Speaker 1>my house right for my kids, my kids who are

0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:27.400
<v Speaker 1>all school age, seventh grade, fifth grade, kindergarten, and so

0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:30.320
<v Speaker 1>we're in the we're in the throes of school lunches.

0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:33.000
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, like every once in a while, my son

0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:36.880
<v Speaker 1>when it's Hamburger Day, he's he wants to buy, right. Unfortunately,

0:42:36.920 --> 0:42:38.719
<v Speaker 1>I think a school lunch for him is like three bucks.

0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:40.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, okay, once a week for Hamberger that's.

0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:43.959
<v Speaker 2>What it is. It's three fifty in our I still can.

0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Do that, but most days, yeah, you're gonna eat healthier,

0:42:46.520 --> 0:42:49.200
<v Speaker 1>even if, even if the price discrepancy between the school

0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:51.720
<v Speaker 1>lunch and what we're making at home is like minimal,

0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:53.879
<v Speaker 1>which it is when that's the sick because you're doing

0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:56.120
<v Speaker 1>the sandwiches. But then like he slice up some apples,

0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:59.120
<v Speaker 1>apples aren't cheap, like some carrots whatever, try to give

0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:01.640
<v Speaker 1>him a well rounded lunch. It's it is gonna it's

0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:03.720
<v Speaker 1>gonna get pretty close to the price of school lunch.

0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:06.239
<v Speaker 1>But you just at least you know what you're feeding them.

0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Then I want I'm curious you still write about personal finance.

0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:12.080
<v Speaker 1>You still have this kind of passion for the subject

0:43:12.120 --> 0:43:14.600
<v Speaker 1>after all these years, starting the blog in two thousand

0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:17.680
<v Speaker 1>and eight, Does it ever bore you? What keeps you

0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:21.000
<v Speaker 1>excited on the personal finance front? Why do you why

0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:22.480
<v Speaker 1>do you keep talking about it writing about it?

0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll be honest, so I'm not quite as excited

0:43:26.680 --> 0:43:28.920
<v Speaker 2>as I used to be. Joel. Let's say, you know,

0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.120
<v Speaker 2>there's been over three thousand articles right now on that

0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:33.440
<v Speaker 2>on the blog. If you can believe that I've I

0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:36.360
<v Speaker 2>think i've written about two thousand of them. The book

0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:38.719
<v Speaker 2>has what I've considered to be the one hundred and

0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:42.719
<v Speaker 2>sixty seven of the most popular blog pieces that I

0:43:42.960 --> 0:43:43.479
<v Speaker 2>that I did.

0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:45.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a lot of consistency though, and you've really

0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:47.960
<v Speaker 1>encouraged and helped a lot of people, motivated a lot

0:43:48.000 --> 0:43:50.320
<v Speaker 1>of people, I think, to take charge of their personal finances.

0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:52.000
<v Speaker 2>So I try, and the blog is it. Don't get wrong,

0:43:52.040 --> 0:43:55.040
<v Speaker 2>the blog is still there. It's it's it's you. You

0:43:55.040 --> 0:43:57.040
<v Speaker 2>can come over, you can sign up, get my newsletter,

0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and I go. We do about five there's always five

0:44:00.120 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 2>articles a week there and I do every Saturday, I

0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:07.359
<v Speaker 2>do something called black Coffee. So that's my main that's

0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:10.120
<v Speaker 2>the thing I do every every week without fail. And

0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:12.480
<v Speaker 2>what I do is that's my personal finance roundup at

0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:15.359
<v Speaker 2>the macro level. So it's not more not so much

0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:17.960
<v Speaker 2>personal finance, but it's what's going on that's affecting our

0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:21.200
<v Speaker 2>personal finances in the macrosphere. And I do that. And

0:44:21.280 --> 0:44:24.960
<v Speaker 2>it's a humorous thing where I pick up the memes

0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:28.520
<v Speaker 2>of the week, funny memes, the best Twitter posts that

0:44:28.560 --> 0:44:33.479
<v Speaker 2>I find. Usually there's ten or eleven different things which

0:44:33.560 --> 0:44:36.280
<v Speaker 2>it's topics, which I call credits and debits, I opine

0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:39.960
<v Speaker 2>on them, and it's just it's funny. I have a

0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:43.520
<v Speaker 2>squirrel cam in there. It's just silly. But I mean again,

0:44:43.520 --> 0:44:46.040
<v Speaker 2>you still there's still things to learn, and it's very popular.

0:44:46.120 --> 0:44:48.040
<v Speaker 2>That's what I that's the main thing I do every

0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:49.280
<v Speaker 2>week now with the blog.

0:44:49.360 --> 0:44:51.759
<v Speaker 1>And you, you, sir, you are now a retiree. All

0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:53.799
<v Speaker 1>that hard work is paid off. You don't have to

0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:55.960
<v Speaker 1>work anymore if you don't want to. What are the

0:44:56.880 --> 0:45:01.360
<v Speaker 1>what are the biggest difficulties of being a retired person?

0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:04.319
<v Speaker 1>Is it mentally difficult to not have a paycheck coming

0:45:04.320 --> 0:45:07.120
<v Speaker 1>in anymore because you've obviously you've done a lot of

0:45:07.120 --> 0:45:10.520
<v Speaker 1>the hard work when it comes to front loading the sacrifice,

0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:13.520
<v Speaker 1>I can't imagine that you're you know that you're having

0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:16.440
<v Speaker 1>to make significant sacrifices in order to be okay. Right, So,

0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:20.719
<v Speaker 1>what's what's it like as someone who has you've done

0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:22.960
<v Speaker 1>really well with their personal finances over a long period

0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:25.440
<v Speaker 1>of time to finally hit retirement. What are the things

0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:26.359
<v Speaker 1>that like weigh on you?

0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Gosh, I don't want to be a downer as you

0:45:28.680 --> 0:45:30.600
<v Speaker 2>get older. There's things you have to worry about, like

0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:34.719
<v Speaker 2>long term care. It's it's like the big expense that

0:45:35.800 --> 0:45:38.919
<v Speaker 2>could in theory wipe you out maybe if something bad

0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:40.799
<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, like if a

0:45:40.800 --> 0:45:44.239
<v Speaker 2>family member gets Alzheimer's and you can't take care of

0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:47.319
<v Speaker 2>them anymore, Well, I have enough money for that if

0:45:47.680 --> 0:45:48.920
<v Speaker 2>if that happens.

0:45:49.160 --> 0:45:51.440
<v Speaker 1>The trouble is long term care insurance could wipe you

0:45:51.480 --> 0:45:53.720
<v Speaker 1>out too. It's so dang expensive exactly.

0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:56.040
<v Speaker 2>And that's something that you know, I had to make

0:45:56.200 --> 0:45:58.920
<v Speaker 2>and I'll just come I did the risk assessment. One

0:45:58.920 --> 0:46:01.040
<v Speaker 2>thing of being about being in one of the things

0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:05.320
<v Speaker 2>we do is risk assessment, and and that's a personal finances.

0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:08.000
<v Speaker 2>A lot about personal finance is risk assessment. You have

0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:10.480
<v Speaker 2>to make a lot of decisions on risks. You know,

0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:13.879
<v Speaker 2>it is the risk worth taking. So and in that

0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:17.080
<v Speaker 2>that arena, I did a lot of a lot of

0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:22.200
<v Speaker 2>data gathering and running numbers and crunching, and I decided

0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:25.440
<v Speaker 2>that the risk a better risk for me for me

0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:29.640
<v Speaker 2>on just as me to not go take the insurance

0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:32.880
<v Speaker 2>for that reason, for what you said, Joel, because it's expensive,

0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:37.040
<v Speaker 2>and uh, you know that's so so yes, that's to me.

0:46:37.080 --> 0:46:39.680
<v Speaker 2>That's the biggest thing, you know, is long term care

0:46:39.800 --> 0:46:44.600
<v Speaker 2>some some medical thing that will totally wipe out my

0:46:44.600 --> 0:46:48.040
<v Speaker 2>my retirement savings. That being said, you know, I think

0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:51.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm not really worried about that. I think I'm comfortable

0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:54.960
<v Speaker 2>enough even if that happened that that's not going to happen.

0:46:55.400 --> 0:46:57.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if I have to pay for it out

0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:00.359
<v Speaker 2>of my retirement SAMs, I'll be good enough anyways, because

0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I did a good enough job saving on the way

0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:04.240
<v Speaker 2>up to retire.

0:47:04.280 --> 0:47:06.960
<v Speaker 1>I think, just as someone who you know would like

0:47:07.000 --> 0:47:10.800
<v Speaker 1>to retire in twenty years speaking to someone who is retired.

0:47:11.320 --> 0:47:15.000
<v Speaker 1>One of the guys, my friend Wes Moss writes about

0:47:15.080 --> 0:47:20.600
<v Speaker 1>the habits of the like happy retirees, and I'm curious, like,

0:47:20.760 --> 0:47:23.520
<v Speaker 1>have you inculcated any of those, Like what does it

0:47:23.560 --> 0:47:27.120
<v Speaker 1>look like? Because so many people go full bore working

0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:30.360
<v Speaker 1>forty five fifty hours a week to working zero hours

0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:32.719
<v Speaker 1>a week. They just retire all the way. You've had

0:47:32.800 --> 0:47:35.480
<v Speaker 1>other You've got other hobbies. Yeah, are there any any

0:47:35.520 --> 0:47:37.160
<v Speaker 1>secrets to being a happy retiree?

0:47:37.440 --> 0:47:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, you just named it. You've got to look, life

0:47:40.600 --> 0:47:44.000
<v Speaker 2>is long, and I've I'll probably t off some the

0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:46.200
<v Speaker 2>fire people, the people who want to retire at thirty

0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.360
<v Speaker 2>years old, you know, thirty five forty. Let's say you

0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:53.040
<v Speaker 2>retire at forty, You've got another forty fifty years of life.

0:47:53.120 --> 0:47:56.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what are you going to do? I mean, yes,

0:47:56.400 --> 0:47:58.640
<v Speaker 2>you can have hobbies when you're older. It's easy to say, y,

0:47:58.640 --> 0:48:00.680
<v Speaker 2>I get a couple of hobbies. That does it. And

0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:03.440
<v Speaker 2>usually when you're older, you have grandkids, you have you

0:48:03.480 --> 0:48:05.520
<v Speaker 2>have other things to keep you busy. But when you're

0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:08.839
<v Speaker 2>in your you know, forties, fifties, you know, that's all

0:48:08.920 --> 0:48:11.480
<v Speaker 2>how many how much tennis can you play? How much

0:48:11.480 --> 0:48:14.440
<v Speaker 2>golf can you play? Right, you really need to think

0:48:14.440 --> 0:48:16.040
<v Speaker 2>about what you're going to do to fill that time,

0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:17.640
<v Speaker 2>or you're not going to be happy. You'll probably want

0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:21.560
<v Speaker 2>to go back to work anyways, because you know, that's

0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:24.640
<v Speaker 2>a long life and a lot of things going to happen,

0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:28.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, so you got to make sure you're busy. Yes,

0:48:28.360 --> 0:48:30.560
<v Speaker 2>hobbies is one. It helps if you have, you know,

0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:32.839
<v Speaker 2>if you're older and you have grandkids or something like

0:48:32.880 --> 0:48:35.440
<v Speaker 2>that to keep you busy too. There's only so much

0:48:35.440 --> 0:48:38.000
<v Speaker 2>traveling you can do too. I can't imagine. I can't

0:48:38.040 --> 0:48:39.759
<v Speaker 2>imagine people who travel. I mean, there are people who

0:48:39.880 --> 0:48:43.759
<v Speaker 2>enjoy it, but I mean, gosh, you know, life is long.

0:48:43.960 --> 0:48:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Believe me, it's really long. It's short, but it's long,

0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:48.840
<v Speaker 2>and you got to figure out a way to fill

0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:49.279
<v Speaker 2>that time.

0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:52.560
<v Speaker 1>All right, have something to do with those hours if

0:48:52.600 --> 0:48:54.520
<v Speaker 1>you're really aiming to retirely, because you're right, I've seen

0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:57.600
<v Speaker 1>some of those folks want retiring early and then they're

0:48:57.640 --> 0:49:01.160
<v Speaker 1>like they're clawing to get back into some Yeah. I

0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:03.239
<v Speaker 1>don't know how they do it paid labor, you know,

0:49:03.440 --> 0:49:08.120
<v Speaker 1>so I get it. Lenpenzo, this has been a joyful conversation.

0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:10.239
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for joining me today. Where can

0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:12.360
<v Speaker 1>listeners find out more about you and your new.

0:49:12.200 --> 0:49:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Book Lenpenzo dot com. That's easy. You can always say

0:49:15.320 --> 0:49:18.799
<v Speaker 2>check me out on Twitter at Lenpenzo and I'm there

0:49:18.840 --> 0:49:22.320
<v Speaker 2>on Amazon, so you can just google True Money Stories

0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:25.839
<v Speaker 2>Lenpenzo on Amazon and there it is. You can read

0:49:25.840 --> 0:49:26.640
<v Speaker 2>them more about it there.

0:49:26.719 --> 0:49:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Wonderful. Thank you, Lenn, appreciate it.

0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Joel.

0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:32.480
<v Speaker 1>All Right, it's always fun to connect with somebody who's

0:49:33.000 --> 0:49:35.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of an og really in the personal finance space.

0:49:35.880 --> 0:49:39.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, think about writing this content for almost two decades,

0:49:39.800 --> 0:49:43.799
<v Speaker 1>putting your thoughts out there. Three thousand blog posts. That's

0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:47.560
<v Speaker 1>quite a feat from Lenpenzo and just cool that he

0:49:47.600 --> 0:49:49.880
<v Speaker 1>gave me a quick start when I was starting to

0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:53.640
<v Speaker 1>write about money as well. I think my big takeaway

0:49:53.960 --> 0:49:57.920
<v Speaker 1>from Len and it's kind of the unpopular truth that

0:49:58.200 --> 0:50:00.640
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people don't want to hear. Yeah there,

0:50:01.680 --> 0:50:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Lenn talked about problems with the monetary system, and he

0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:10.520
<v Speaker 1>mentioned the fact that not everybody has the same advantage

0:50:10.560 --> 0:50:13.960
<v Speaker 1>or starts from the same place. But he discussed the

0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:17.719
<v Speaker 1>necessity to face reality and to sacrifice, and I think

0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:21.520
<v Speaker 1>that's true that the more you're willing to face the

0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:25.439
<v Speaker 1>reality of your situation and to make sacrifices to get

0:50:25.480 --> 0:50:28.960
<v Speaker 1>where you want to go, the more likely you are

0:50:29.120 --> 0:50:31.640
<v Speaker 1>to achieve some of those long term financial goals. And

0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:35.920
<v Speaker 1>he talked about the inability most people have to sympathize

0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:38.799
<v Speaker 1>with their future selves to think about twenty thirty, forty

0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:41.239
<v Speaker 1>years down the line. I do think that's probably a

0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:44.960
<v Speaker 1>place where a lot of people fall short. They're like, yeah,

0:50:45.000 --> 0:50:47.839
<v Speaker 1>but what am I saving for? And there's a disconnect

0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:52.239
<v Speaker 1>between the twenty something year old you and the potentially

0:50:52.440 --> 0:50:55.640
<v Speaker 1>likely to be sixty something year old you. And it

0:50:55.719 --> 0:50:58.960
<v Speaker 1>just reminds me of what Fidelity found one time of

0:50:59.320 --> 0:51:01.359
<v Speaker 1>taking a picture of yourself and putting it through one

0:51:01.400 --> 0:51:03.920
<v Speaker 1>of those apps that make you look a lot older.

0:51:04.760 --> 0:51:08.440
<v Speaker 1>It really did have meaningful results in helping people increase

0:51:08.680 --> 0:51:10.319
<v Speaker 1>what they were willing to put into their four one

0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:13.760
<v Speaker 1>K or into their IRA, and so find a way

0:51:13.960 --> 0:51:17.440
<v Speaker 1>to think about, hey, what do I want my future

0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:20.200
<v Speaker 1>to look like? What am I gonna potentially even actually

0:51:20.239 --> 0:51:24.600
<v Speaker 1>look like when I'm reaching that age? And when you

0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:26.879
<v Speaker 1>can do that, I think it does become a little

0:51:26.920 --> 0:51:28.840
<v Speaker 1>bit easier to put aside some of the money you

0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:32.200
<v Speaker 1>would have spent today and save it for tomorrow. One

0:51:32.239 --> 0:51:34.760
<v Speaker 1>of the things Lenn said too that I really appreciated

0:51:34.920 --> 0:51:36.360
<v Speaker 1>he was right there at the end. He was talking

0:51:36.360 --> 0:51:40.840
<v Speaker 1>about risk assessments, and I think that's a really important

0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:44.680
<v Speaker 1>part of personal finance. And it's not just oh, which

0:51:44.960 --> 0:51:49.880
<v Speaker 1>fund should I choose to invest in because is it

0:51:49.880 --> 0:51:51.680
<v Speaker 1>gonna Am I going to get twelve percent returns in

0:51:51.719 --> 0:51:55.480
<v Speaker 1>this fund versus nine percent returns in another? That you

0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:58.120
<v Speaker 1>know past performance is not indicative of future results, so

0:51:58.160 --> 0:52:00.640
<v Speaker 1>you you know, that's a really hard thing to do. Anyway,

0:52:00.640 --> 0:52:04.319
<v Speaker 1>It's an imperfect process to try to figure out which

0:52:04.320 --> 0:52:06.879
<v Speaker 1>funds you should be investing in. But when we're talking

0:52:06.920 --> 0:52:11.520
<v Speaker 1>about risk assessment and risk mitigation, which was kind of

0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:16.200
<v Speaker 1>the Jeff Bezos framework of like regret minimization for life.

0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:18.760
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a good way to think about personal finance.

0:52:19.600 --> 0:52:23.160
<v Speaker 1>My advice to you would be to actually write down

0:52:23.200 --> 0:52:28.040
<v Speaker 1>and think about the risks of different paths you could

0:52:28.080 --> 0:52:32.640
<v Speaker 1>choose right whether it's the risk of oversaving over investing.

0:52:32.880 --> 0:52:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Some people really do have that risk, whether they're saving

0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:39.920
<v Speaker 1>too much or the risk of not doing enough. The

0:52:39.960 --> 0:52:42.640
<v Speaker 1>trade offs that you're going to make, actually like writing

0:52:42.640 --> 0:52:47.080
<v Speaker 1>those down and having a conversation with a friend, bouncing

0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:50.600
<v Speaker 1>ideas off of them, or with your significant other. Like

0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:56.040
<v Speaker 1>I think doing some more risk assessment work would help

0:52:56.120 --> 0:52:59.719
<v Speaker 1>us make better personal finance decisions. Trade Offs are the

0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:02.279
<v Speaker 1>old clement reality in life, with so many of us

0:53:02.760 --> 0:53:05.640
<v Speaker 1>make those trade offs without having weighed the pros and

0:53:05.680 --> 0:53:08.719
<v Speaker 1>cons beforehand. So thank you, as always for listening. I

0:53:08.880 --> 0:53:11.840
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate it. You'll find show notes, links to Len's

0:53:11.920 --> 0:53:14.799
<v Speaker 1>new book and his website up on the website at

0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:18.439
<v Speaker 1>howtomoney dot com. Until next time, best Friend Out.