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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,

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Speaker 1: National Association Member FDIC erness What's Up? You ever walk

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Speaker 2: You said you had a nervous breakdown or mental breakdown

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Speaker 2: something right, was nervous breakdown.

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Speaker 3: A mental breakdown, mental breakdown, but.

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Speaker 2: We never really compounded upon that. So all right, as

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Speaker 2: far as that is concerned, right, talk about that. As

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Speaker 2: far as being incarcerated, what is that due to your

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Speaker 2: mental health? Like even being in solitary confinement. There's been

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Speaker 2: research said that I think like after like a couple

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Speaker 2: of days, like you kind of clinically start to deteriorate mentally,

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Speaker 2: like especially some people being the whole for six months,

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Speaker 2: like three months at a time. Like, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: just like a lot of mental illness that comes from isolation,

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Speaker 2: that comes from just being around men all day, that

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Speaker 2: comes from having trauma of seeing people killed in front

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Speaker 2: of you, stabbed in front of you, dealing with CEOs

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Speaker 2: that you know, abuse prisoners. It's a whole mental aspect

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Speaker 2: of this. So we'll talk about the mental side effects

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Speaker 2: of being incarcerated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So interestingly, sexuayes into what I was talking about

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Speaker 3: with the team. We're actually for those who serve time. Right,

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Speaker 3: there's an article about the psychological impacts of prison, and

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Speaker 3: we're all dissecting that article and identifying ourselves in it.

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Speaker 3: So we're trying to build awareness of our trauma in

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Speaker 3: order to overcome it. That's another thing, right, But the

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Speaker 3: psychological impacts is deep. Right. I could go on and on, right,

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Speaker 3: But for me, you know, part of what just feeling like,

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Speaker 3: the feeling like it along the way, So feeling like

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Speaker 3: so one of the concepts is that like, when you

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Speaker 3: have served so much time, right, you feel abnormal, Right,

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Speaker 3: you come out into this world. And I think part

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Speaker 3: of my urge with building a support group was to

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Speaker 3: try to like be around like minded people because there's

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Speaker 3: this like otherness, this this concept of the other. Right,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's a lot of African American scholars talked

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Speaker 3: about being the other in a white man's space, feeling

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Speaker 3: like the outside of the stranger. So the stranger concept

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Speaker 3: is that I walked with that a lot, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: being in spaces where I did thirteen years, somewhere around

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Speaker 3: men talking about traveling and they're like, I just can't

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Speaker 3: from Dubai. You feel like uncomfortable, uncomfortable, you can't partake

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Speaker 3: in the conversation. You can't relate, right, you don't. You

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Speaker 3: just did your whole thirteen years and your adult years

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Speaker 3: in prison.

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Speaker 2: Right, So it's it's some level of embarrassment, like you

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Speaker 2: don't even want to tell people that you were incarcerated,

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Speaker 2: type Like, well.

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Speaker 3: For me, some people do have that, they have this

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Speaker 3: shame of the identity. I owned it from this gate,

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Speaker 3: like it became my advantage, actually, right, it became my

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Speaker 3: currency because some people didn't know I served time. Right,

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Speaker 3: I might have been working when I was at the

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Speaker 3: fashion production company. People were like, oh, you know, he

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Speaker 3: did thirteen years. I would have never knew. So, like

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Speaker 3: I always didn't mind it, but some people are ashamed

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Speaker 3: of where they came from, so they keep it deep

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Speaker 3: down inside, you know.

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Speaker 2: You know the guy that not to cut you off,

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Speaker 2: the guy that runs Jordan Brand. You no history, nah,

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Speaker 2: So the guy that runs Jordan Brand, he he killed

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Speaker 2: somebody years ago and he went to jail for it.

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Speaker 2: But it was like a thing that nobody knew about.

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Speaker 2: So he worked his way obviously a very intelligent person,

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Speaker 2: he worked his way up the corporate ladder to the

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Speaker 2: point where the CEO of Jordan Brand, and it was

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Speaker 2: something that it haunted him not having nobody knew about it.

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Speaker 2: It was like a secret that nobody knew. And he

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Speaker 2: like recently, like last year, two years ago, he wrote

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Speaker 2: an article and that was like him coming out and

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Speaker 2: telling his past. But for twenty years, nobody knew his

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Speaker 2: past history. So it was one of these things. And

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Speaker 2: like I said, he probably could have went to the

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Speaker 2: grave with it, right. I guess it was before laws

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Speaker 2: was so transparent where everything was, you know, it was

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Speaker 2: probably like in the sixties or something. But he didn't

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Speaker 2: feel comfortable living a double life. He felt like he

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Speaker 2: just you know, like he had suppressed it and he

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Speaker 2: was just hiding it for so long that even though

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Speaker 2: nobody knew about it, it just was causing him anxiety

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Speaker 2: because he knew about it and he wanted it to

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Speaker 2: kind of get it off his chest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, it is deep. Somehow I'm blessed, you know,

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Speaker 3: by the grace of God in that way where I

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Speaker 3: was always okay with being vulnerable. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: I think that we're so guarded when we come out

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Speaker 3: out that we want to like protect this narrative and

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Speaker 3: it's like, now, let people know who you are, right,

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Speaker 3: So for me, I came home open to that, but

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Speaker 3: I never really felt like my people's understood me. Right,

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Speaker 3: So being the stranger, you know, there's times where like

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Speaker 3: I don't play with the hands. I was called too serious.

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Speaker 3: Oh you know, loosen up man, Like you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, you mad like on something. And it's like

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Speaker 3: I just came from a hyper violent environment, right, So,

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Speaker 3: like I can't just be flexible, And it took me

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Speaker 3: time to like loosen up to new faces trust issues.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: I was questioning everybody in my bros. Circle like, nah,

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Speaker 3: like you know, because of my own trauma, people telling

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Speaker 3: so you start to generalize, and that's delusion. Right, you

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Speaker 3: start to think everyone is who you experienced. That's like

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Speaker 3: literally delusion. And one of the biggest experiences I remember

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Speaker 3: was being in barbershops, right, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: You behind the chair again, A lineup and one dude

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Speaker 3: pulled up. He was a former cop, that's the funny part,

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Speaker 3: pulled up with a hoodie on his hands in his pocket.

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Speaker 3: I jumped up dumb fast, and I mean, I just

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Speaker 3: came home to a town that I took a life

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Speaker 3: fro him. Right. So those type of things where people

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Speaker 3: dont understand your anxiety. Is the first time I hit

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Speaker 3: in New York City to go to a contract, I

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Speaker 3: seen like a herd of people and it's reminded me

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Speaker 3: of the yard, Like people won't know what you're walking through,

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Speaker 3: people walking past you, you like yo, you on super edge.

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Speaker 3: So those moments made you feel abnormal, Like it made

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Speaker 3: you feel broken, you know what I'm saying. And it's

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Speaker 3: like what I learned was like accepting it that that's

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Speaker 3: a I'm scared in that way, right, It's not really

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Speaker 3: what happened is how I react to it because I

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Speaker 3: can't change the past now, right, It's how I move forward.

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Speaker 3: But those type of things, man are constantly walking with us.

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Speaker 3: And I was just speaking at on Pacier University yesterday

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Speaker 3: for the law school there, and I talked about the

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Speaker 3: symbolic baggage of trauma that we all walk with on

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Speaker 3: our backs, right, And I felt the heaviness of that

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Speaker 3: trauma when I was in the school. You know what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying. There was mad times I was in that school,

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Speaker 3: Brugie Elite school, and I felt like I ain't belong

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. It's like you feel like

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Speaker 3: the stranger. And that feeling is an internal thing, you

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Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. And to get even deeper, you

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Speaker 3: know what your relationships, right, you know, some of us

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Speaker 3: got like you know, issues with our family, our fathers

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Speaker 3: or moms. Right. And if you know, I served so

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Speaker 3: much time as a kid, so like I learned that

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Speaker 3: the impact that prison had on me was like the

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Speaker 3: abandonment issue, right, you know, I ain't see people for

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Speaker 3: so long, So you have trust issues, you know in

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Speaker 3: your relationships. You see it come out right, and that's

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Speaker 3: where you need to understanding partner, and you need to

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Speaker 3: be aware of your own triggers, you know. And the

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Speaker 3: good thing when I was working with the Why on

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Speaker 3: the DCJS, like I got to understand trauma informed practices

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Speaker 3: and how to like really like let go some of

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Speaker 3: the issues I was holding on to. So a lot

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Speaker 3: of it is letting go and understanding that it's there.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: A lot of us move into avoidance. A lot of

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Speaker 3: men I know, even on my team, like you become

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Speaker 3: so self sufficient in prison that you come out here

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Speaker 3: think I do everything by yourself. And I'm like, that's

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Speaker 3: a trauma response, right, you don't realize You're not in

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Speaker 3: prison no more. Bro, You got the world out here,

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Speaker 3: You got people to call you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: We had a deep conversation the other day with a

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Speaker 3: brother that just did from sixteen to thirty nine years old, right,

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Speaker 3: one of my guys again he identified somebody as a

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Speaker 3: prospect for the organization. He's a Muslim brother. Again, diversity

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Speaker 3: were looking to diversify the team. He just did all

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Speaker 3: this time, solid brother up north. I actually know him,

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Speaker 3: and Yo, beautiful experience was that he was not a

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Speaker 3: prospect to serve. He needs to be receiver. He needs

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Speaker 3: to be a recipient. He's like, Yo, I've been on

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Speaker 3: five months and I'm like, you know, struggling, I'm like

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Speaker 3: trying to figure it out. He's like, I need help,

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Speaker 3: And that might have been the first time he said that,

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Speaker 3: because for five months he's like, I gotta do this

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Speaker 3: on my own. Like this is mindset that we have

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Speaker 3: coming home from SO. And it's because prison, you know,

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Speaker 3: makes you have to protect yourself from relying yourself. I

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Speaker 3: talk about three battles that we experience in prison. You

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Speaker 3: battling against the correction officers. That's a whole other culture, right,

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Speaker 3: especially up north around white boys up north. That coach

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Speaker 3: is mad conservative. Right. Then you're battling with yours, right,

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Speaker 3: the just the segregation, the doggy dog world, the back

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Speaker 3: door right. And then you battling with your own internal demons.

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Speaker 3: You know what those three fights every day feel like.

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Speaker 3: After many years, you come home and look at people different,

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Speaker 3: your friendships, you define them differently. You know a lot

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Speaker 3: of my brothers that I like, really filled my brothers,

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Speaker 3: brothers who at the time with that's home now celebrating

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Speaker 3: life for me, you know, despite my real brothers. But

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Speaker 3: you know, SO is like it changes your dynamic with people.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean, an illegal alien from Guatemala

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Speaker 4: charged with raping a child in Massachusetts. An MS thirteen

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Speaker 4: gang member from Al Salvador accused of murdering a Texas

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Speaker 4: man of Venezuelan charged with filming and selling child pornography

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Speaker 4: in Michigan. These are just some of the heinous migrant

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Speaker 4: criminals caught because of President Donald J. Trump's leadership. I'm

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Speaker 4: Christin Noman, the United States Secretary of Homeland Security. Under

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Speaker 4: President Trump, attempted illegal border crossings are at the lowest

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Speaker 4: levels ever recorded, and over one hundred thousand illegal aliens

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Speaker 4: have been arrested. If you are here illegally, your next

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Speaker 4: you will be fine nearly one thousand dollars a day, imprisoned,

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Speaker 4: and deport You will never return. But if you register

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Speaker 4: using our CBP home app and leave now, you could

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Speaker 4: be allowed to return legally. Do what's right.

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Speaker 3: Leave now.

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Speaker 4: Under President Trump, America's laws, border and families will be protected.

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Speaker 3: Sponsored by the United States Department of Homeland Security,