WEBVTT - Jeff Pollack 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.240 Welcome, Welcome, brocome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.840 My guest today is Jeff Pollock, media consultant and now 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.680 a producer of music documentaries. Jeff, good to have you here. 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.279 Thank you, Bob. It's a pleasure appreciate it. Okay, tell 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.160 me how the Paul McCartney Rick Rubin three to one 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.920 series on Hulu came together. Well, that's a it's a 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:36.000 great question. It happened all during COVID and Rick and 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.000 I have been friends for a while. We were sort 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.560 of emailing back and forth. He had just seen the 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.040 Laurel Canyon doc that we had done and really liked it. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.520 And I sort of said, well, hey, have you ever 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.159 thought about producing a doc? Would you like to do that? 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.080 And he goes, well, that would be fun. Who would 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.920 you want to do? So, as music guys do we 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.520 we went back and forth saying what would you want 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.800 to do? Here's a short list. The thing Rick said 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.080 to me was I'd want to do something somebody well known, 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:11.080 but tell stories about that person that aren't widely known, 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.800 you know. So um we decided to We both agreed 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.840 on Paul McCartney and I said, you know, he's never 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.720 gonna do it. I mean, this is like just you know, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:25.000 Aaron Rodgers pass with the clock running out. It's just nice. 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.560 It's not gonna happen. But you know, let's approach him 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.640 with and and this was Rick's idea, was really focusing 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:38.000 on Paul the musician, not a Beatles documentary, something really 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:44.040 about the bass player, you know, the arranger, the piano player, 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:48.720 the you know, the drummer, and uh, with his third 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.200 solo album coming out, we said, let's let's ask him. 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.960 So we ended up reaching out to Scott Roger, his manager, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.640 and you know, we didn't hear back for a little bit. 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.920 And then did you have a pre existing relationship with 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.200 Paul or did Rick have a pre existing relationship with Paul? 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.440 Of course you know Scott Roger, but was this the 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.040 first time around the merry go round with Paul. Well, 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.840 I interviewed Paul in nine, but he wouldn't know me 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.959 from Adam, So yeah, there was nothing there. And Rick 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:25.480 had had met maybe a lunch or something with Paul, 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.040 but he certainly weren't friends. They were not friends. Okay, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.960 So continuing the narrative, you contact Scott Roger, McCartney's manager, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.720 and and so um Scott says, well, look, I'll run 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.639 it by Paul, but you know, he's got a lot 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:41.880 going on, and I you know, this is sort of 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.119 the process you realize, Bob, when you're making an impossible 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:49.239 request that's never going to be a yes. So then 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.840 I get the email back from me says Paul wants 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.800 to talk to Rick. So they end up having a 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.760 phone conversation. And I get a two word email back 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.679 from Rick which says he's in And so I'm saying 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:08.639 to myself, now, what this is COVID And oh, by 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:14.640 the way, he's in America on August fift and and 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:16.240 he can only do it then. And I looked at 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.280 the calendar, Bob, and it was three weeks away. So 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.800 of course all the planning that you would ordinarily do 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.480 on something like this, and the months it would take 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.720 to prepare have gone out the window. So we sort 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.040 of four walled a barn in in the Hampton's were 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:42.200 Paul has this place. I didn't even go because of COVID. 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.200 We had like three people on the set and we 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.200 brought everything in. We had the tapes shipped over from 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.560 Abbey Road, which is sort of the first time they'd 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.840 ever left Abbey Road, and that's why if you see 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.960 the series, you can see Paul listening like he hasn't 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.000 heard it in a long time. And that's in fact 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.960 the case. Like, okay, just to be technical here, did 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.200 they ship the actual tapes or were they digital copies? Oh? 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:11.400 They were digital copies. Copies yeah, and so um. And 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.720 of course Rick being a producer and went through all 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.280 of them and had all these incredible questions for him. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:24.440 So we shot for fifteen hours, um, and amazingly we 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.800 were able to do all the post production on it 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.880 and get it to Hulu. So, I mean literally everything 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.280 takes so long these days, and we went from him 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:39.159 saying yes to being on Hulu in eleven months. Okay, 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.839 let's start back at the beginning. You talked to Rick. 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:47.000 You say, hey, Paul, you call Scott Roger. Paul speaks 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.440 to Rick. Well, we both know there are a lot 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.680 of other things. How did you make the deal with Hulu? 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:53.560 And how where did the money come from? They pay 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:58.520 a hundred percent? What happened? Really good questions. So Rick 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.800 has a deal with Film forty five, which is a 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:07.400 film production company who has a deal with Endeavor Content. 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.560 So Endeavor Content said, okay, will fund the shoot, and 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.880 it wasn't inexpensive because of COVID Bob. I mean, it 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.360 was just like we had to do everything in an 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:25.039 incredibly short period of time and then uh, once we 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:30.640 had some trailers cut, uh, Endeavor Content could go out 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.120 and sell it. So they basically fronted it for us. 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.600 And then how did it end up at Hulu? Well, 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.560 Hulu was very keen on the idea, and of course 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:45.480 Disney had already made the deal for the Peter Jackson film. Uh, 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:50.960 so I think they really liked the idea of having uh, 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.960 you know, a real place with you know, McCartney and 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:59.520 you know, three months before the uh the Beatles film 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.760 came out. So I just I just think, you know, 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.680 Disney kind of doubled down on the Beatles and McCartney. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:10.559 So lucky for us. Okay, So they fronted the money. 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:12.560 Can I ask how much money it was to do 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:17.279 the thing lock Stock and Barrel, I can't share that, 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:23.039 but but it was not inexpensive, Okay. So in the 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.960 deal with Hulu, were you in the block or did 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.480 you retain certain rights that would ultimately put you in 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:33.480 the block. Oh, we were in the black and um, 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:37.960 you know it's um, definitely. I mean it was something 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.760 that was it was extraordinary because so little was being 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.240 made during COVID. I think it was really a sigh 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.600 of relief for everybody that there could be something brand 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:54.599 new that was fresh. So it worked out. Okay, so 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.039 it's been It's on Hulu now because we bean and 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.000 if you will say, if you have a subscription to Hulu, 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.520 you can watch it. Would we anticipate it would be 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:07.320 on other platforms available in other distribution outlets at some 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.960 point in the future, you know. I I don't know 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.160 the length of the deal. I know it's on Disney 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:19.080 Plus outside the US because there isn't the Hulu brand 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:25.160 outside the US, but um, you know, streamers essentially licensed it. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.040 Like our Sinatra doc which originally was on HBO in 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.040 All or Nothing at All, is now on Netflix, so 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.120 you can actually watch it on Netflix. So it's a 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.320 good question, Bob. I think it's a you know, there's 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:42.720 a there's a term, you know, uh, multi year term 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.200 and then and then it devolves to to somebody else 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.480 depending on the deal. So what does McCartney say about 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:54.360 the finished product? I think he really liked it. I 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.680 think he heard from a lot of people that it 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:03.320 was surprising that it was. You know, it just felt 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.679 different than a lot of the standard docks being shot 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:11.760 in black and white, being intimate, um, being leisurely, like 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.880 somebody was in the studio. You've been in enough studios 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.880 to know that the pacing in a studio is slower, 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.240 and this was slower. You know, this was Rick Rubin 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:28.320 in the studio asking questions and um, it really was, um, 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.080 a very good experience. And I think that that Paul 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.000 came off so humbly, you know, he really came off 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:40.520 great and uh um you know. So you know, we 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.040 were lucky that he said yes, I'm proud of it. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:48.040 With such a brief period three weeks before production, did 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.439 Rick feel that if he had to do it over again, 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.920 he would have done it differently, had enough time prepared. 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.320 I mean, it was great, but what went through his mind, Well, 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:02.520 he did an extraordinary a he he's an extraordinary amount 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.560 of prep for it, as you might imagine Bob Lack 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.600 he would do for you know, doing him the Chili 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.960 Peppers album or something like that. So he went through 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.840 all the songs that he wanted to ask about and 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.679 not all of them were obvious ones. You know, he 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.520 didn't ask, you know, if you're if you're asking about tomorrow, 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.120 never knows you know, you're you're You're not necessarily asking 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.680 questions about the biggest hits. But he had a very 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:32.600 good sense for each song. We shared song ideas, we 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.160 shared ideas, but you know, very much of the creative 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:40.440 vision was Rix. To give credit here, Rick, Rick really 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.040 had an idea of what he wanted to do. He 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.360 was obviously he knew everything about the Beatles, and he 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:51.520 was very intrigued, mostly about the choices that the band 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.560 or Paul made at a particular question. He was very curious, like, well, 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.679 why would you decide to do that instead of this? 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.080 And I think as of you or it was really 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.480 interesting to watch that. So you have a Grand Slam 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:09.200 with Paul McCartney. Are their plans to do more? I 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.880 don't think so. Um, you know, you never say no, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.000 but I don't think there's anything coming. I think we 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.880 all felt that, you know, we captured particular period for 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.439 Paul in a in a new way, which was great. 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.040 I guess I'm asking do you have any more plans 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.880 you and Rick to do more with different interview subjects. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.640 Good question. He is a very busy guy, and I'm 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.280 pretty busy myself. We've talked about it, but there's nothing 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.880 specific at this point. Okay, now, ten years ago, you 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:50.079 switch from radio consultancy to this music doc world. What 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.200 was going through your head? Why did you make that switch? 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.000 You know, Bobby, I was always a music guy. I 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.280 mean I was, even though I was in radio. I 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.800 wasn't a guy who considered himself a radio guy. I 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.160 was a music guy. I got into radio in college 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.880 because I loved music. The idea of playing music for 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.800 other people that I thought was great and might engage 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.800 other people was something that I really liked, and it was. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:24.560 It was one of those non commercial um college stations 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.200 where we played jazz and classical music and we played 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:29.959 a little bit of rock, and I swore that I 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.160 had never worked at a radio station. I would play 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.640 anything commercial like Elton John. And then, of course two 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.920 years later, I am but so much for that. But 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.600 I I enjoyed that so much, and I was able 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.520 to get a part time job. I was in Denver 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.360 and I went to University of Denver, and I worked 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.560 at a commercial station. It would have been sort of 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:54.240 like the cam Et of Denver, and I worked there 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.800 part time and then I got the Overnight show. And 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.480 there was one profound thing that happened to me during 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.439 that experience, which I've always thought about, is I saw 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.600 sort of the legendary DJ and Denver. His name was 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.560 Bill Ashford. He was sort of like the Bert Mitchell 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.240 read or that kind of person that really is Scott 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:19.360 Muti of Denver. And what year are we in? This 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:25.360 is in the seventies, early seventies, and I, uh, well, 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.920 mid mid seventies. And at this point, um, I saw 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.480 this guy kind of discarded, like he didn't fit in 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.240 with the times. So he was replaced. And he was 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.200 a great music guy, and I was saying to myself, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.679 I guess I better think about playing music other people 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.520 want to hear rather than just what I want to hear. 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:52.040 And that was a very big step for me. So 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:56.080 Elton John was on the radio, Bob there he was, 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.880 and I love great guy, but it wasn't what I 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.839 wanted to play. John culture, That's where I came from. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.960 But so I worked my way up and worked for 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:09.480 commercial stations. Okay, let's I want to get to all that. 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:17.640 But first, what closed the transition ten years ago. It's 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.280 a good question because I had worked in the nineties. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.320 I had started and worked on thirty to forty films 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.840 as a music supervisor. I was lucky enough to be 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.000 the guy people called who would once in a while 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.439 get one of his music choices in there, because it 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:37.360 was always you know, the director's daughter or the producer's 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.800 brother or everybody. Of course, we're experts on music. So 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.400 the idea you can actually get a song into a 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:50.000 movie that you thought actually might work, uh was. It 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:51.880 was nice to have happened. So I worked on a 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.839 bunch of UM films, some of which you actually even 0:13:54.880 --> 0:14:00.840 have heard of, and and I noticed how interesting it 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.079 was as I observed what producers did and everything else 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.480 and the storytelling involved. It reminded me of my early 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.400 days in radio, which is all about storytelling. It's about 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.040 putting music together and storytelling. And I was lucky because 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:19.240 I met Frank Marshall on a UM some event we did. 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.640 And it turns out that Frank, who was obviously a 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.280 very well known producer, worked with Spielberg and still does 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.600 for all those years. And you know your audience would 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.520 know him from the born Identity films and the Jurassic 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.360 UH films and everything else, but that his father was 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.840 a professional musician. His father, Jack Marshall, played with Chet 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:44.320 Baker and Sinatra and everything else. And Frank always loved music, 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.400 and I said, why don't we do some music docs? 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.600 I said, you don't get paid much, but it's sure 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.040 is fun. And so we ended up coming together and 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.560 tackling the most difficult one to begin with, which which 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:02.920 was Sinatra. So we worked several years on that. I 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.480 and you know, it's a learning process, and I learned 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.320 that I have kind of a knack for doing this 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.800 and I really love doing it. And it's you know, 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:16.520 it's UM having the relationships to be able to talk 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.560 to the estates and talk to the people and have 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.400 them trust you and believe that you're not going to 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:25.240 just make a film that UM is going to trivialize 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.000 or or or do things that are gossipy. I'm not 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.480 a gossip guy, I said. If you want to traffic 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.480 and gossip, then i'm your Then I'm not your guy. 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.320 If you want to talk about music and songwriting and arranging, 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.480 you know, I mean, like our Johnny Cash film, we 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.760 did it does deal with his drug issues, but only 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.040 as it relates to his touring and his music. I 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:51.200 I just that's not the stuff I'm interested in, you know. Okay, 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.200 so you do the SATRU uh doc. At what point 0:15:54.240 --> 0:16:01.280 do you push radio aside? It was happening. I sort 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.600 of evolved. I went from radio to still working with 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:09.800 radio and doing uh the music supervision and was working 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.680 with with Tom Preston who you know, and Judy and 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.560 van at at MTV and I worked with them for 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:19.760 a long time as a consultant and as a music 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.480 I and obviously music went away, so I, you know, 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.960 I shifted my responsibilities and then I worked for Spotify 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.240 for a lot of years. I was always interested in 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.000 sort of the new platform that would expose music. I've 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:40.120 always been very curious about that. And radio became less 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.520 of a priority for me. I just didn't enjoy it 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.760 as much. It didn't get me excited like it was 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.800 when I was a program director. When I was a 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:53.240 program director in Philadelphia, it was so exciting and creative, 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.600 and we had a lot of competitors, you know, and 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.720 you had to be really good to get people to 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:05.720 listen Deer station. And suddenly when I could buy my competitor. Uh, 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:10.320 then the it wasn't as challenging. You know, when when 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.480 the when the when the ownership rules changed, you know. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.360 So okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.159 l A, right. What did your parents do for a living? 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.280 My both my parents are from the Midwest. I was 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.720 born here. I don't have anybody in entertainment in the 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.119 family at all, you know. Um, I have two brothers 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:36.040 and two sisters. My father was a corporate lawyer, and 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:41.280 my mom was uh, you know, a um, a wife 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:46.440 and a mom and a brilliant woman who inspired me greatly. Um. 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.280 And if there are five kids, where are you in 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.320 the hierarchy? I'm fourth out of five? And what did 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.840 the other four do these days? Why did their lives 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:00.480 play out? My oldest brother is retired and he was 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.840 in the vending business. Uh whatever that is. I'm not 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.520 sure what it was, still don't know what is. But um, 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.920 my sister is a psychologist. My brother was a Supreme 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.600 Court justice in Hawaii, in the state of Hawaii, so 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.639 he was a judge and he just retired from the bench. 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:21.320 And because of forcible retire they have age limits there. 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.600 I wish they had him here for our for our country. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:28.119 Uh and um, and my youngest sister teaches at the 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.160 in northern California. So what what kind of kid will 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.199 you growing up? Growing up? Were you the kind of 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.960 kid who was alone? We remember the group? We are 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:42.080 leader of the group. What we like? I had a 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:47.840 lot of behavioral issues. Let us say I had gotten 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.720 a lot of trouble. My father was going to send 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.320 me to military school in Vancouver. I can tell you. 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.520 I mean I think on Victoria Island. That's how far 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:00.679 away that that guy won me away. So but my 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.639 mother wouldn't let him do it. Thanks to her, she 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.639 thought it would kind of break the spirit. But you know, 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:08.080 I got in a lot of trouble, but it was 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:12.320 nothing really malicious. I just was, you know, like most 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.639 kids looking for attention and doing things like that. You 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:17.800 could just go a little deeper, you know. What was 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:26.840 your bad behavior? Uh? Well? Um? I was chucked out 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:33.280 of three schools elementary schools, um and demoted at one 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.159 of them, another one in junior high. So they just 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.359 didn't like my behavior. You know, I just wouldn't listen 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.000 to anybody. I I'm not very good with authority, so 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.959 I I probably learned that from Jim Morrison. I just 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.960 had a big problem with the Actually, one of the 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:54.080 schools actually made you repeat a year. They wanted to 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.080 humiliate me, so they I was I think I was 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:58.879 in eighth grade and they made me go to a 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.399 seventh grade home room. And as a kid, that is 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:08.040 so embarrassing and humiliating. So but yeah, what happens in 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:12.040 the high school, Well you start to figure it out. 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.280 You start to figure it out. In around eleventh grade, 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:21.520 I figured, okay, so I can do these fun things 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.359 I want to do and start I started a club 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.960 called the Lizard Legion in high school, inspired by Jim Morrison, 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.879 and and signed up two people without them knowing what 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.320 the club was about. I mean, those are the kinds 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.760 of things that I figured out how to do. Okay, 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.880 I'm interested. So what was the Lizard Legion and what 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:45.960 was your goal? And what how how did it play out? We? Uh, 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:52.280 we're protesting the eating of iguanas as a delicacy in 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.879 South America. And I mean the whole thing, Bob was 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.960 just me spoofing the administration and trying to get them 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:05.560 to um and I gotta I gotta a sponsor. Who 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.040 was a teacher and all that. The administration thought it 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.920 was a political organization. I thought it was some sort 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:17.400 of leftist organization, and it was it was me figuring 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:22.000 out how to work the system finally, rather than them 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.119 throwing me out. I was kind of challenging them with 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.600 a bit of humor wrapped up in the whole thing. 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.840 You know. It was just like, you know, okay, this 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.960 is a public or private school. Public, it's a Grand 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:40.480 Grant high school, and uh in North Hollywood. Okay, this 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.360 is what I'm interested in. You know, you're a relatively 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.960 saw spoken guy, but you have all these relationships and 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.040 you work those relationships. What are the roots of that 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:59.280 activity in that skill? Well, I work hard. I like 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:06.400 to all that. Um. I'm not always calling people for favors. 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:10.040 I think that you know in in um, I think 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.440 to call and and tell somebody that you like their 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.880 record or that hey, you like the show or something. Um. 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.240 You know, there's there's you know, this is a relationship 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.840 built on people. And if you're always calling just asking 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.240 for favors or something, Hey can I do a film 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.760 about this guy? Or can I do this? You know, 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.160 my relationships have always been too I'd like to think 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:32.520 somebody could say, hey, do you mind if I send 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.840 you a copy of this record and tell me what 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.000 you think or what you think of this single, or 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:39.040 you know, would you come to the show and listen? 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:43.800 You know, I mean it's I I think it's it's um. 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:47.000 I value those relationships. I don't burn them. I don't 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:50.680 um um. If something is a secret, it's a secret. 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:55.359 And um, you know you and I probably are you know, 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:58.000 have access to a lot of people sharing stuff with us. 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:02.680 That's uh block and that's also confidential. And I think 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:14.080 you really have to honor those relationships. You have the 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.760 incentive to start the Lizard Legion. You ultimately had your 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:22.480 own radio consultancy with multiple employees where owners depending on 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:27.720 how you defined it, dot entrepreneurship, that ability to start things. 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:32.879 Where do you think that came from? I think my father. 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.600 He didn't like the word no very much, and I 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:42.359 don't like it either. And it people will tell you 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:45.560 who know me, well is doesn't Jeff ever give up? 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.199 But you know, if I've had no, then I'll say, well, 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:53.480 maybe there's another way to do it. And I saw 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.520 that in my home, where my father would talk about 0:23:55.560 --> 0:24:00.639 somebody said, well, we can't really move put the kitchen. Uh. 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:02.480 We kept at the oven there in the kitchen because 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:04.840 it won't fit there. And he said, well, what if 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:08.320 we tried this or try that? He was always it's 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.879 like what if? And I think the thing that has 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:17.000 driven my entire life without me able to to articulate it, 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:22.720 but I can now, is the worst somebody can say 0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:26.520 to you is no. So if that's the case, Bob, 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:29.119 you've got to go for it. You've got to try. 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:32.360 You've got to do something that you know. And that's 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:35.240 the thing with McCartney. I knew he wouldn't say yes. 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:39.640 It was impossible, you know, like and then he did. 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.120 And once in a while, something you'll get a yes 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.199 if you if if you give it a shot. And 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.120 you know, I have two kids here, and I hope 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.040 that they've learned that from me, that you know, you 0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:54.119 really have to give it a go. I mean, the 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:57.080 idea of me leaving Philadelphia. When I left Philly to 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:00.680 start a consultancy, I had no I idea about being 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.000 a consultant. I don't even know what that was. I 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:05.800 just had a few people call me up after the 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.000 success in Philadelphia, said Hey, I don't know what you 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:09.679