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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if.

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Speaker 2: You've had experience with manipulation or abusive power that you'd

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Speaker 2: like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight,

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Speaker 2: or shoot.

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Speaker 1: Us an email at trust Me pod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, Trust trust me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived. To you. If you think.

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Speaker 2: That one person has all the answers, don't welcome to

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Speaker 2: trust Me. The podcast about colts, extreme belief and manipulation

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Speaker 2: from two metal heads who've actually experienced it. I'm Lola

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Speaker 2: Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. Today our guest is musician

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Speaker 2: and filmmaker Pablo Vergara aka Morbid, whom you may recognize

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Speaker 2: from Netflix's docuseries on Alsa Lamb called Crime Scene. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna look at conspiracy theories from a different angle today,

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Speaker 2: from the perspective of a victim of Webslooth's, who are,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, a form of conspiracy theorist that we

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Speaker 2: frequently think of as useful. Papa's gonna tell us about

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Speaker 2: his history as a death metal musician, how metal as

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Speaker 2: an art form frequently incorporates horror elements, and how uploading

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Speaker 2: one video from the Ceesel Hotel as a goth guy

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Speaker 2: led to him being accused by armchair detectives of murdering

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Speaker 2: Lisa Lamb, even though the evidence clearly showed he was

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Speaker 2: there an entire year before her.

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Speaker 1: He'll talk about the consequences these accusations had on his life,

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Speaker 1: including losing all of his art, feeling afraid to keep

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Speaker 1: making music, and suffering from such severe anxiety and depression

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Speaker 1: as a result of cyber bullying that he made a

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Speaker 1: suicide attempt, Plus what you can do if you are

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Speaker 1: experiencing harassment, and how you're not alone.

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Speaker 2: Warning we will be talking about mental illness and suicide.

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Speaker 2: But Papa's story is super interesting, so if you can

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Speaker 2: handle it, keep listening. Before we dive in with him, Megan,

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Speaker 2: it's holiday week, Christmas just happened. What's your clziest thing

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Speaker 2: this holiday time?

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Speaker 1: God, it's New Year's dude, I'm so scared of it.

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Speaker 1: I okay, there's so many things, Like I stopped drinking

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Speaker 1: for a year and a half and I loved it,

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Speaker 1: But then when I went to aa, it got.

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Speaker 4: A little culty, which I love.

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Speaker 3: AA.

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Speaker 1: Happiest year and a half of my life, best support,

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Speaker 1: so brilliant.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 1: But I needed to go to a to stop drinking

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Speaker 1: and taking pills, which I did. But then sometimes i'd

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Speaker 1: like smoke weed, which essentially got me in trouble, which

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Speaker 1: I thought, that's silly.

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Speaker 2: You don't do anything at all according right.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, but I came here to stop

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Speaker 1: drinking right and taking pills, which I did. So I

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Speaker 1: want my little chip and I want I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like I have a problem with weed anyway. I need

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Speaker 1: all the support I can get this year because I'm

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Speaker 1: going to try again.

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Speaker 2: Well, I support you in your journey to stop drinking.

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Speaker 2: I think that sounds like a very healthy habit.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: The question of like how much you abstain or like

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Speaker 2: what you abstain from if you only have like one

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Speaker 2: particular drug of choices is something I just mind really interesting.

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Speaker 2: I was talking to my friend Bonnie about it the

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Speaker 2: other day, because you know, I know people who cannot drink.

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Speaker 2: If they drink one drink, they're fucked. My brother is

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Speaker 2: a very very severe addict. But then other people I

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Speaker 2: know they're like shrooms to me are a spiritual experience

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Speaker 2: and it's really important. It's actually helped my sobriety. And

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Speaker 2: then other people are like I can smoke weed once

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Speaker 2: a month and it doesn't impact my like other kinds.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's just so interesting how different it is for everyone exactly.

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Speaker 2: The important thing is just to be really really honest

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Speaker 2: with yourself. It seems like about what you really what

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Speaker 2: is really impacting you? And are you just trying to

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Speaker 2: numb out exactly?

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Speaker 1: And just being there for other people who can't do

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Speaker 1: it. It's also important to totally you know. So I do

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Speaker 1: get that A is great.

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Speaker 2: I think we both really support it as a program.

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Speaker 2: It's been helpful to so many people, and it's just

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Speaker 2: everyone's path is different.

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Speaker 1: Everybody h sent me some support from your brains?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, support from your brains.

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Speaker 4: I mean good energy.

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Speaker 5: How about that brain support? Brain support?

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Speaker 1: What about you?

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Speaker 5: That's the cultiest thing that happened to you.

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Speaker 2: I watched that Jonah Hill documentary that just came out

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Speaker 2: on Netflix. Do you know what I'm talking about? No,

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Speaker 2: it's called Stuts. This documentary he made. Stutz is about

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Speaker 2: his therapist, Okay, whose last name is Stuts. I guess

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Speaker 2: they call him Stuts. And in the beginning, you know,

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Speaker 2: Jack started watching it and I kind of tuned in,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, Wow, this guy's awesome. I love him,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, you know, he's been seeing he's been

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Speaker 2: treating Jonah for years, and Jonah just like Jonah Hill

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Speaker 2: just like felt so strongly about how much he'd helped

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Speaker 2: and how great he was and how much he loved

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Speaker 2: their dynamic. They really have a friendship that he wanted

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Speaker 2: to make a film about him and about his methods,

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Speaker 2: and like I said, the first twenty minutes, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: love this love this man.

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Speaker 5: This is so great.

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Speaker 2: I love seeing male vulnerability. That's like my favorite thing.

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Speaker 2: I come to that in two seconds. But as the

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Speaker 2: documentary went on, it started to make me uncomfortable because

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Speaker 2: and I hate even saying it, because I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: know that, like Jonah Hill believes in this man so much,

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Speaker 2: and I don't want to like shit on some who

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Speaker 2: he clearly feels helped him. But he's calling his program

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Speaker 2: the Tools, with like a little trademark after it. Oh

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Speaker 2: and he he literally says, I guarantee you will feel better,

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Speaker 2: and then he starts saying a lot of things that

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Speaker 2: as always look like mindfulness, basic psychology, like the same

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Speaker 2: stuff we already know, just kind of repackaged as the

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Speaker 2: tools trademark symbol. And he also, I you know, you

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Speaker 2: can watch him telling Jonah exactly what to do, oh

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Speaker 2: and telling him it's gonna make him better. And he

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Speaker 2: is so charismatic. This man, he's probably in his what

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Speaker 2: seventies or something. Oh wow, and you watch him and

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Speaker 2: you're like mesmerized. He's so funny, he's so charming, and

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Speaker 2: like he seems so wise. But then he's like he's

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Speaker 2: got this really elaborate system of things that you need

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Speaker 2: to do and if you do them, you will feel better.

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Speaker 2: And there's one moment in which which Jonah says something.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm calling him Jonah, like he's my friend,

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Speaker 2: my pal, Jonah Jonah Hill. Mister Hill says something about

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Speaker 2: like because they filmed it up of course of like months,

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Speaker 2: like they would do a session and then put on

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Speaker 2: the same clothes, and you know they addressed that in

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Speaker 2: the documentary. There's one scene in which he says something

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Speaker 2: about how like what if it's not working? And I

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Speaker 2: don't remember exactly what Stuts said and response, but it

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Speaker 2: made me feel icky. It just rereaked of like if

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Speaker 2: it's not working, it means you're not doing it right

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Speaker 2: and you need to just put your trust in me

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Speaker 2: and do it better. Like that's what it felt like

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Speaker 2: to me, and I, you know, Jack didn't have all

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Speaker 2: the same red flags raises me. But also I'm hyper

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Speaker 2: tuned to cultish shit and I googled it to see

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Speaker 2: what other people thought. First thing that comes up is

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Speaker 2: an article from Vice where it's like an actual therapist

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Speaker 2: gives their take on the Stutz documentary and they're like, no,

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Speaker 2: because it's like because he's he's touting a system that

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Speaker 2: like he developed, which is great, but there's no he

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Speaker 2: has no studies, there's no, it's not evidence based.

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Speaker 5: It's just like.

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Speaker 4: He's just like I'm exciting, so do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, his celebrity, his celebrity clientele buy into his whole

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Speaker 2: confident persona that again is using things we know are

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Speaker 2: helpful for people, but doing it in such a way

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Speaker 2: that just like like if I just knew if I

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Speaker 2: were to be treated by someone like that at the

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Speaker 2: height of like my anxiety or like a depression spirral

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Speaker 2: or something I it would probably make me worse because

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Speaker 2: it really becomes so dependent on them, right, well, yes,

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Speaker 2: and I'd be like, but it's not working. I'm not

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Speaker 2: doing it right. It's not working. I'm not doing it right.

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Speaker 2: It's not working. Like why isn't it working? It's not

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Speaker 2: fixing me? You know, like because as we know, I'm obsessive. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: I just thought that was interesting. I would love to

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Speaker 2: know what if anyone else watched it, if y'all have

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Speaker 2: the same like reaction to it that I had, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: let me know, because my red flags were.

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Speaker 5: Like doop dop, doop doop doop.

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Speaker 2: Also, it was the The doc was also produced by

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Speaker 2: a couple of other celebrities who I've heard of being

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Speaker 2: into other cultia persona I see. So I wonder if

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Speaker 2: it's like he's got the he's got Hollywood you.

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Speaker 3: Know, uh huh.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's the side of me that's like

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Speaker 1: it might be important for men to have some leader

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Speaker 1: that's like I have some answers and just that solid

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Speaker 1: like yes, you do give some structure and something. But

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Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm interested to watch it.

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Speaker 2: Something that the therapist said in the Vice article, which

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Speaker 2: we've talked about on this podcast as well, is that,

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Speaker 2: like the therapeutic relationship is maybe even more important than

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Speaker 2: the modality. So I do get that as long as

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Speaker 2: the therapist is not telling you what to do and

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Speaker 2: guaranteeing you that it will work and saying like basically

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Speaker 2: making it seem like this is your own this is

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Speaker 2: this is the way you heal. Yes, but you know

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Speaker 2: I do again love when men are vulnerable. Don't want

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Speaker 2: to discourage them from that. Please go get a therapist.

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Speaker 2: We want this, yes, yes, And that's my culti ist thing.

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Speaker 1: So before we jump into the interview, let's just remind

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Speaker 1: people that they can go buy some trust Me merch

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Speaker 1: and it is wonderful.

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Speaker 2: You can get a shirt with our logo and our

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Speaker 2: faces on it. You can get like a notebook, a

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Speaker 2: bag of sweater with Jim Jones's face scribbled over and

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Speaker 2: called a liar. There's so much great march here. It's

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Speaker 2: through Void March and the link to that is bit

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Speaker 2: dot l y slash trust Me Merch. So check around.

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Speaker 1: I'm really proud of that, which part the part of

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Speaker 1: how good it is.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah we.

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Speaker 1: Did I mean I didn't do it, but I just

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Speaker 1: I'm like, WHOA. Shout out to my friend Kyle who.

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Speaker 4: Got some and loves it.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, And shout out to Jordan at Void

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Speaker 2: Merch who designed it.

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Speaker 1: Is amazing. They're amazing. If you ever need a merch

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Speaker 1: go But anyway, we'll.

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Speaker 4: Go to the interview.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it, okay. Pablo Vergara, also known as Morbid,

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Speaker 2: welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 6: Thank you very much for the invitations to trust me

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Speaker 6: calls extreme belief and manipulation focus.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm excited to have you.

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Speaker 2: My mom told me about you a long time ago,

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Speaker 2: and I just was very touched by your story and

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Speaker 2: it seemed like the perfect addition to Conspiracy months, So

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to dive in with Yeah. All right, just

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Speaker 2: to give some context for who you are. So you

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Speaker 2: are a musician. You are a metal musician. Black metal?

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Speaker 5: Is that the specific subgenre?

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Speaker 6: I have a black metal band. It's always like a

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Speaker 6: great area death metal.

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Speaker 2: And black metal. I can never really remember what the difference.

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Speaker 2: I feel like death metals like and black men's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I that's my impression, go.

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Speaker 7: Away around the more the growling, like, can.

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Speaker 2: You give us some context for these genres of metal,

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Speaker 2: because a lot of people think of metal as like

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Speaker 2: Metallica or you know, sort of more mainstream metal and

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Speaker 2: don't really have a conception of the sort of more

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Speaker 2: extreme version of it within this culture. It was something

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Speaker 2: I was pretty into in high school.

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Speaker 4: There's a horrors but there's a horror element.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of like talk about death and macabre.

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Speaker 5: So tell us a little bit about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, startedly speaking, metal has to be dark.

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Speaker 6: I mean, we won't be singing about rainbows and unicers

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Speaker 6: or I mean, yeah, it's just like a recurrent subject

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Speaker 6: in our lyrics.

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Speaker 3: They're darkness things like that. But there are some metal

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Speaker 3: bands that they actually you know.

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Speaker 6: They talk about global warming and some obviously more political topics.

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Speaker 6: It's very broad, but yeah, I mean, you know, dark

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Speaker 6: stuff has to be a bit edgy.

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Speaker 4: What was so interesting to you about metal?

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Speaker 6: I come from a broken home, so you know, like

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Speaker 6: I had a lot of difficult situations when I was

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Speaker 6: growing up. I took on music, I guess, to express

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Speaker 6: my frustration, to channel my negativity. I mean, some people

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Speaker 6: do sports and people become fighters or whatever. I just

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Speaker 6: took the guitar, you know, and in my case, I

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Speaker 6: grew up a very angry.

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Speaker 3: Child getting in a lot of trouble, but thanks to

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Speaker 3: my metal bands, it kind of kept me in check.

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Speaker 6: And to me, it was just a natural progression as

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Speaker 6: a guitar player. I started like getting really good on

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Speaker 6: the guitar and started like opening the level. You know,

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Speaker 6: it's getting faster faster, and then that's what brought me

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Speaker 6: into like the more technical aspects of compositions in the guitar,

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Speaker 6: which is definitely dead metal and some black metal, trash metal.

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Speaker 6: And then also I started connecting with oll the like

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Speaker 6: minded people I could identify with or they could identify

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Speaker 6: with me with my lyrics because I've always had bands.

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Speaker 6: I've had like dozens of bands, so you know, I

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Speaker 6: was always part of the community of metal, the network,

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Speaker 6: and it was a source of artistic expression to deal

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Speaker 6: with my frustrations with my traumas everything. You know, you

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Speaker 6: can write about anything in your lyrics. So strangely enough,

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Speaker 6: a lot of people during the metal world or rock

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Speaker 6: they tend to have the same issues. You know, they

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Speaker 6: come from broken homes or difficult situations, some traumas, and

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Speaker 6: so you start making good friends, you know, and it's just.

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Speaker 3: A lifestyle, you know. I guess music too.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's interesting the like horror element, because

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're so drawn to horror because I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's how you process a lot of emotions

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Speaker 1: and it's very sensitive people who can get into these genres.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe this is true of the metal community too.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I only really knew my very specific Southern

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Speaker 2: California metal people, but in the horror community, it's truly

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Speaker 2: like some of the most supportive, nicest people I can

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Speaker 2: possibly imagine, like so much nicer to me than the

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Speaker 2: pop music industry was, which is obviously a lot more like,

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Speaker 2: you know, shiny and happy and presenting a particular like

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Speaker 2: kind of image depending on what era music you're working.

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Speaker 2: The horror community, it's like literally the nicest fucking people,

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Speaker 2: and we just happen to like scary stuff. It's like

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Speaker 2: it has now thing to do with anyone's character. It's

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Speaker 2: just like the type of art that we're drawn to

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Speaker 2: and for many people who can be a safe way

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Speaker 2: to sort of process trauma, process difficult things that you've

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Speaker 2: been through. And it sounds like what you're describing is

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Speaker 2: kind of a similar thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 6: I mean it's really weird because some people they think,

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Speaker 6: because if you listen to metal or dark music, if

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Speaker 6: you're like a bad person or a dralgic or something.

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Speaker 6: But like you said, there's a lot of very nice people,

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Speaker 6: actually highly intellectual people.

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Speaker 3: I finding the metal community.

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Speaker 6: And what you listen to doesn't really define you. I mean,

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Speaker 6: said Bond, you listen to the Beatles. I listened to

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Speaker 6: black metal. I haven't killed anyone, you know, But yeah,

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Speaker 6: I mean you can definitely be drawn more into dark

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Speaker 6: stuff when you're metal. Also, as a storyteller, I've written

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Speaker 6: a few feature screenplays.

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Speaker 3: And of course my main influence is Stephen King. You know,

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Speaker 3: you can write like Stephen King has written. So many things.

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Speaker 6: Are beyond dark of what I've readen and perfectly accepted

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Speaker 6: by society.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, for Eavy video, write.

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Speaker 6: About that, then they blame you for killing someone, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's there's no correlation.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's like zero evidence that listening to any

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Speaker 2: particular type of music, it's not related to the type

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Speaker 2: of person that you are, the character that you have.

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Speaker 2: That's just not a thing. If you look for causal connections,

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Speaker 2: you can find it. With pretty much any genre of music.

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Speaker 2: But because I think metal is.

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Speaker 5: So it appears so scary, it stirs.

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Speaker 2: Something up in people and makes them, you know, want

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Speaker 2: to have this fear around it or feel the fear

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Speaker 2: around it.

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Speaker 6: I should say, Yeah, it's a rather strange thing because

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Speaker 6: people tend to crucify us, you know, for what the

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Speaker 6: type of music we do, or the lyrics we write about,

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Speaker 6: or how we look. But you look at video games

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Speaker 6: like Mortal Kombat, it's like, yeah it' start playing that crap,

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Speaker 6: you know, and it's like you buy it and toys

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Speaker 6: ro It's a bit hypocritical to me, like how society

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Speaker 6: wants to label or criticize things, you know, because yeah,

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Speaker 6: it's very strange that they target musicians in their different

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Speaker 6: way than they will target anyone else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: A side note on the Mortal Kombat thing. I hadn't

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Speaker 2: played the newest version of Mortal Kombat, and I was

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Speaker 2: so excited to play because I love Mortal Kombat as

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Speaker 2: a kid. My boyfriend Jack, he always plays it when

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Speaker 2: we go to my friend Chris's house, so we like

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Speaker 2: watch them. Holy shit, the kills are so groupesome. Now

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Speaker 2: he like fucking stabs him and then he sets him

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Speaker 2: on fire, and then he shoots him all over the place,

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Speaker 2: and then his body explodes and then his tongue comes out,

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Speaker 2: you know, like it's the most disgusting. I think it's fun,

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Speaker 2: but to even that Mortal Kombat, I'm like, oh my.

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Speaker 5: God, that is this is a lot. Yeah, yeah, totally so.

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Speaker 2: Elisa Lamb, as we mentioned in the intro, died at

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Speaker 2: the Cecil Hotel. Everyone pretty much knows the story now.

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Speaker 2: It was determined that her cause of death was an accident,

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Speaker 2: as we know now. But I want to talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about your experience as somebody who was targeted

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Speaker 2: and fingered as someone that people on the internet thought

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Speaker 2: was a suspect in this case. Tell us about the

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Speaker 2: first time that you went to the Cecil Hotel and

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Speaker 2: what that was like for the only time you went to.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't know anything about the Seacol when I

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Speaker 6: went there, So I'm hearing myself in the wild with this,

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Speaker 6: because if I knew, I would like explore, you know,

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Speaker 6: and take pictures and go to Richard Remire's room or

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Speaker 6: like go to the rooftop or anything.

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Speaker 3: But I didn't know nothing. I just went there.

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Speaker 6: I booked the cheapest hotel in downtown because I just

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Speaker 6: moved to la and happened to be the Cecil and

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Speaker 6: I didn't know nothing about it until, you know, afterwards,

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Speaker 6: and I was like, oh, okay, But I was doing

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Speaker 6: a lot of dive research in my music. We used

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Speaker 6: to go to hotels that had suicides, or the catacombs

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Speaker 6: in Paris or places where there was more theres So

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Speaker 6: back then I was pretty wild. And yeah, it just

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Speaker 6: took three days and staying there and the rest is history.

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Speaker 5: It was just cheap. It was just a cheap place

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Speaker 5: to say.

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Speaker 3: I'm not even sure. Maybe I stayed in Lisa's room

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Speaker 3: or Richard's room. All I know is I was staying

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Speaker 3: in the room in the south part of the hotel,

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Speaker 3: in the top floor. Some people that were Richard stay,

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Speaker 3: Like maybe I was saying, it's the same room. Maybe

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Speaker 3: The strange thing is.

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Speaker 6: That some people go to the hotel and they just

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Speaker 6: never leave.

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Speaker 3: And some people leave but they bring the hotel with them.

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Speaker 3: You know. It's like it's like a curse that follows you.

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Speaker 6: It's a really dark place, and in my case, I

386
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Speaker 6: never really want to talk about it. But some people

387
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Speaker 6: think that maybe the ghost of Lisa Lamb might be

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Speaker 6: like contacting me. Sometimes I had some events that might

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Speaker 6: perhaps be explained that way. But there's definitely a connection

390
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Speaker 6: between me and her because you know, I'm here talking

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Speaker 6: about her and keeping her name alive, I guess, you know,

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Speaker 6: and because what happened to her, I'm able to talk

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Speaker 6: to people about mental health awareness. I mean, sometimes I

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Speaker 6: feel like she's speaking to me, like our connection has

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Speaker 6: a purpose. I'm still learning what I mean, it's trying

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Speaker 6: to understand the whole madness behind it.

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Speaker 3: Book. Yeah, it's definitely one of those things.

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Speaker 1: One of the scariest things about the Cecil Hotel to

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Speaker 1: me is that it is a cheap place that people

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Speaker 1: stay not knowing that it is pretty dangerous. So it's

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Speaker 1: not surprising to me to hear you say that you

402
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Speaker 1: had no idea about its history or anything about it,

403
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Speaker 1: because that seems to be what a lot of people's

404
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Speaker 1: experience were staying there.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, but there's definitely some weird energy in there. I

406
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Speaker 6: mean when I because I was in tune with that

407
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Speaker 6: back then, so I could feel it, you know, especially

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Speaker 6: in the little bit or I could feel. I wasn't

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Speaker 6: very excited about the place.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if, though, if you were to take any

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Speaker 2: hotel that was really old and historically serving low income

412
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Speaker 2: populations or underserved populations. Typically those are centers of crime

413
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Speaker 2: and people who don't have access or don't have resources

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Speaker 2: to get help that they need. So like that is

415
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Speaker 2: where some of the darker stuff will happen. So I

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Speaker 2: wonder if you were to do like all the old

417
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Speaker 2: hotels that were the cheapest place to go throughout history,

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Speaker 2: if those were the places where all the darkest things happened,

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Speaker 2: I imagine there would be some correlation there just strictly

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Speaker 2: because of poverty.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean there's there's also been some suicides, and

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Speaker 6: I mean let's not forget about a couple of serial

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Speaker 6: killers that stay there. Yeah, Rich mirrors and the Black

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Speaker 6: Dahali is seinge there. I mean there's like a lot

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Speaker 6: of Yeah, there's.

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Speaker 2: A lot of there's a lot of dark history there.

427
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Speaker 2: I will say, you know, like sex workers are typically

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Speaker 2: a low income population and so they are typically targeted

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Speaker 2: for murder, you know, So I feel like there are

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Speaker 2: all kinds of interesting sociological potential reasons for that. But regardless,

431
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Speaker 2: it's a place where a lot of really dark stuff

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Speaker 2: has happened, suicides, murderers stayed there, lots of crime.

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Speaker 4: It's a terrifying place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't even want to drive by it. I will

436
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Speaker 1: go out of my way to not see that place sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Did you know that? I was in one episode of

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Speaker 2: American Horror Story and it was in the hotel season,

439
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,479
Speaker 2: which is based on the Cecil Hotel.

440
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 4: No, yeah, did you go?

441
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 5: They recreated the whole lobby there.

442
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 1: Wow?

443
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 4: Did it look exactly the same?

444
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 5: I was told it?

445
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 2: Did I know? I'd never been to the actual season hotel,

446
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 2: But my role in the show in that episode was

447
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 2: arriving to this hotel inspired by the Cecil Hotel.

448
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 5: To have sex with the coast.

449
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 3: I saw it.

450
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 5: Oh you saw it?

451
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 3: Ooh it's a good role.

452
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 2: Very So, how how did internet sleuths find out that

453
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 2: you had gone to the Cecil Hotel?

454
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 6: I mean, it's like, really stupid, that's the reaction I

455
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 6: get because I stayed there one year before, and at

456
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 6: least I wasn't even there when when I stayed there,

457
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,159
Speaker 6: I just made a video like laying my bed, you know, like,

458
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 6: hey guys, I'm here in the West Coast now. Besides,

459
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 6: I was recording my album in Cincinnati, so I just

460
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 6: traveled there. It's like kind of connecting with my people

461
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 6: in La these in twenty fourteen, so we didn't have

462
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 6: Instagram or that. Social media was very basically just Facebook

463
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 6: and YouTube and just kind of what we do every

464
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 6: day and on our phones. You know, I'm here, I'm

465
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 6: doing these who's around, you know, let's meet up? And

466
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 6: I did that just a video of me and my

467
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 6: YouTube channel just chilling in the bed, just like, oh

468
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 6: you guys, I mean, let's h the people on the internet.

469
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 6: One year later they found the video, so like the

470
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 6: whole Elisa lam thing happened, and it's like in the news.

471
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 6: Then guess people started looking around like being noticed, like

472
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 6: curious about Elisa Lamb and the cecil, and they might

473
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 6: they stumble with my video and they just downloaded.

474
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 3: And then suddenly, I mean the news in China or

475
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: Taiwana ever know. I don't know it was.

476
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 6: I think it was like one I'm in the news

477
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 6: station and my faces all over news and my pictures

478
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 6: and they downloaded my videos from Facebook and they're calling

479
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 6: me the suspected killer of Elisa Lamb, and oh wow,

480
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 6: I couldn't understand anything.

481
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: So you weren't there, And at the same time, you

482
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: made a video where you were like, hey, what's.

483
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 4: Going on everybody.

484
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm at the Seacyl Hotel with some like dark propaganda

485
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 1: around and people were like, whoa, that guy must have

486
00:22:59,280 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: killed her.

487
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 4: And then it's off and running.

488
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 3: It's just like that.

489
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 6: That's hyperboiling as prime, right, there is just one room

490
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 6: or and it just exploded, you know, and they just

491
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 6: started me because well, of course they went to my Facebook.

492
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 6: They saw my type of posts, my dadis my music.

493
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 6: They were like, oh, oh, this looks creepy. I have

494
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 6: a post where it's like an Alison Chains the grunge band.

495
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 6: There's song the Killarys is Me, And I have a

496
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 6: post of myself looking at the mirror and it's the

497
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 6: Killer is Me because I was listening to the song

498
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 6: a lot.

499
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 3: That's great.

500
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: The fact that you posted that video in twenty twelve

501
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: and Alisa Lamb's disappearance and ultimate death was in twenty thirteen,

502
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: and nobody thought to pause and be like, hmm, logically,

503
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 2: this couldn't have been related. Where exactly was this spreading?

504
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 2: So it was on a Taiwanese news channel, And then

505
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 2: are you just like is it just Internet people kind

506
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 2: of starting to comment on your stuff?

507
00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 5: Like how exactly did it start?

508
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 6: It has to be the worst case of cyberbuiling that

509
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 6: I know. Like I haven't researched too much about other people.

510
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 6: I know that other people have sadly commuted suicide because

511
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 6: of some severe cyberbuiling.

512
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 3: But the stuff that I got was just so real.

513
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 6: I mean started with like the TV news station in Taiwan,

514
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 6: and then suddenly there's a group page in Facebook called

515
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 6: something Justice for Elsa or something Elsa LAMB group, and

516
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 6: there's tens of thousands of people there posting crap about me,

517
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 6: and they go to my channel, to my Facebook and

518
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 6: they retrieve my stuff and they posted and then suddenly

519
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 6: you google me my name and Elissa's name in Google.

520
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 3: There were hundreds of thousands of threads or tens of thousands.

521
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 3: It was just insane, and every day it was just

522
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 3: getting worse and worse. There comes like thousands of.

523
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 6: Messages everywhere, death threads and insults, and it did affect

524
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 6: me a lot back then. I mean sometimes I still

525
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 6: get the regular you kill her message, like fucking killer

526
00:24:59,280 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 6: kind of message.

527
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: I want to know about what that feels like, because

528
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: I think everyone knows people on the internet will come

529
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 2: after you they're crazy or whatever. But I'm not sure

530
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 2: people realize quite how devastating it is for people to

531
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 2: have thousands of people online saying that they are horrible.

532
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: Can you just describe that experience?

533
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I actually wanted to do a documentary

534
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 6: about start ruling exactly what happened to me, because I've

535
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 6: never really talked to it in that. I did talk

536
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 6: to the people in athletes about this, but of course,

537
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 6: I mean this documentary not about me, so they called

538
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 6: what they needed to use.

539
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: But I haven't talked too much about it. It's terrible.

540
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 6: I mean, I get my Facebook account on hold blocked

541
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 6: for a few days. I didn't know if it was

542
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 6: going to be forever. I get my ten year Gmail

543
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 6: accounts terminated. I get my YouTube channel terminated. I'm a filmmaker,

544
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 6: a musician back then as well now now I'm more

545
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 6: into the film boat. Back then, I had my live shows,

546
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 6: I had music videos, I had like commercial video is

547
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 6: a filmmaker, I had everything and I just lost it

548
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 6: overnight and all white clean. And I tried to fight YouTube,

549
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 6: which is now Google, to try to get my stuff back.

550
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 6: I did it for months. They said, no, it's erased

551
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 6: all of your.

552
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 5: Life, all of your art that you had made up

553
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 5: to this.

554
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: It's gone backed up or anything. So it's completely messing.

555
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 6: And then what I haven't lost, like my public reputation.

556
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 6: When I go to my accounts there, everyone.

557
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 3: Is like destroying me, you know, so you're like, whoa.

558
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: It's a very strange place to be.

559
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 2: But it made you like distrustful of people because so

560
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: many had come after you, and I imagine you're constantly

561
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 2: just worried that someone's going to think you're a bad person.

562
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: I mean, did it make.

563
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 3: You kill me or kill you?

564
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah?

565
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: What was the worst part besides losing your art, which

566
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: is obviously horrible. Was it fear that you would never

567
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: be able to sort of shed this idea of you,

568
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: or fear for your life or all of the above.

569
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: All of the above.

570
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 6: I mean, I understand people that community sided because of this,

571
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 6: because first of all, you're alone, you know, like you

572
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 6: talk to this about this to anyone and they just

573
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 6: go like, huh, they're bullying what, like you account what

574
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 6: they don't understand, they don't care, they don't know, like

575
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 6: you know, in my case as a musician, as a filmmaker,

576
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 6: like I did, lost a lot of work, work that

577
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 6: I put a lot of money into too, So it

578
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 6: was on my fan base, and you know, I couldn't

579
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 6: sell my merchandise.

580
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 3: I couldn't sell my albums for a while.

581
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 6: So it did took some economic blow for a while,

582
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 6: and you feel really isolated. You feel like, I don't

583
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 6: think anyone is conditioned to PHELI. I mean, we're like

584
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 6: so used to our social media, but when you lose

585
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 6: everything and then when everything suddenly switches backwards against you

586
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 6: and the dead threats and the insults, like that self

587
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 6: effects to you. I think I developed some piteos you,

588
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 6: And actually I know I did because I'm shooting my movie.

589
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 6: Everything's great, you know, we're shooting, shooting, shooting investors.

590
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 3: Everything is also. I'm happy with my life.

591
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 6: And then I get a cyber bullying such saying that

592
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 6: Achilles a lamp randomly, and that night I was just

593
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 6: feeling some recital thoughts and I was just like, what's

594
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 6: going on, Like, whoa.

595
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 3: It's three or something in your mind? And he is

596
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 3: very real.

597
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's It's definitely the worst thing I've ever

598
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 6: had to endure, and.

599
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 3: I don't recommend it. Yeah, even my worst enemy.

600
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: It's funny. I haven't been through this at all, but

601
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: even just the like little shred of this sort.

602
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 5: Of thing I've witnessed through.

603
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: You know, there are people online who actually are now

604
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: developing conspiracy theories about my mom, which you should probably

605
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 2: talk to her about at some point, because I think

606
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: you guys would connect on it. I think you told me,

607
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, okay, the level of anxiety that it

608
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: gave me, just like secondhand. I've tried to talk to

609
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: people in my life about it, and no one really

610
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: gets it. Even just like that secondhand thing. It's not

611
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: even that big of a deal. It's not even that big,

612
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: but for some reason, the impact that it has emotionally,

613
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: and this is what my mom's whole dissertation is on.

614
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: So I was observing it as much as possible in

615
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: myself because I just thought it's really interesting.

616
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 5: I'm like, this is too extreme.

617
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: Of reaction, but that is what it does to people,

618
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: and this is what so many people have talked about.

619
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: It is such an isolating experience from everything I understand

620
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: because nobody gets why it.

621
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 5: Hurts so much.

622
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: Because like it's just words, just crazy people.

623
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: We're social animals who need to feel like we're part

624
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: of the pack or are very survival, feels threatened, and

625
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: these turns that people do against others on the internet

626
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: are so dangerous.

627
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 4: They're a really big deal.

628
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: They are. I mean, we need humans, we need other people,

629
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: and when it feels like we are at risk of

630
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: not having access to other people or not being able

631
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: to ever create again, that is a paralyzing, like crippling experience.

632
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: I mean, you can tell me if I'm right, but

633
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: that is my understanding of it.

634
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: Oh, you're absolutely right.

635
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 6: I mean, that's that's the beast way to describing is

636
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 6: crippling and paralyzing. I mean, and in my case also

637
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 6: to answer to your question, it was like that for

638
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 6: me until ontil the Netflix documentary, and I was like

639
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 6: the rockstarn stage, the front man and this and this

640
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 6: and that, and I stopped with all that and went

641
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 6: to like the editing station and then behind the camera

642
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 6: or I mean, I'm an actor too, but like I

643
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 6: stopped doing something that I loved. You know, I'm a

644
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 6: musician first and for most my main passion, and I

645
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 6: stopped and it shocked. I mean, to this day, I'm

646
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 6: like trying to get my music going. But I didn't

647
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 6: talk about these four years. And it was until the

648
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 6: Netflix producers they come to me and they with the offer,

649
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 6: and I was like, I don't know, because I thought,

650
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 6: you know, if I got into trouble.

651
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: By some video on YouTube, what's gonna happen the bath list?

652
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: But they were very clear with that.

653
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 6: They said, now, look, you know where you like, dispel

654
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 6: all the misconceptions.

655
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 3: We were to like talk about your side of the story,

656
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: no need to work. I was like, okay. They took

657
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: a while.

658
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 6: To convince me to be honest, but I'm glad I

659
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 6: did it because they did rectify things. And strangely enough,

660
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 6: the Internet that once thrown their back on me or

661
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 6: attacked me, now they kind of embraced me or like

662
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 6: now they support me.

663
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 3: It's a really weird thing that.

664
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 4: People apologize and apologize to you.

665
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 6: I've had thousands of people apologizing, but not anyone that

666
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 6: did this. You know, just people feel bad and they

667
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 6: just you know, reach out. And I'm very grateful. There's

668
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 6: amazing human beings out there. I mean, let's not just

669
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 6: talk about the cyber bullies. Yeah, but no, no, I

670
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 6: think no one, Oh.

671
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 4: I was really wrong. I'm sorry, Like that was crazy.

672
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 3: No.

673
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 6: And if they even saw me and they didn't reach out,

674
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 6: it's I'm not surprised because they were.

675
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: They were shitty people.

676
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 6: And I tell you they were like I reach out

677
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 6: to a few of them. It was like, hey, you

678
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 6: have to stop, like you know, this is this is

679
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 6: hurting me, this is and they were just like making

680
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 6: fun of that, and they just been doing it more so.

681
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 3: It's just I think it's our bullets have.

682
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 6: It's people that have some mental they're distortmenttally, they have

683
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 6: some issues that they need to address.

684
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: It's not very normal to do that to others. Something.

685
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: If you go to the streets and you tell someone

686
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: you know you're in the face of someone or insult them,

687
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 3: you're gonna get the boots. I mean, just people get

688
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: behind the screen.

689
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: There's a theory by a woman named Alice Marwit called

690
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 2: the theory of morally motivated networked harassment, which holds that

691
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: a group of social media users can justify any amount

692
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: of abuse directed at a target if they feel their

693
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: cause is morally right. So if we believe that morbids

694
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: a killer, then all bets are off. We can do

695
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: whatever we want to him because he's a killer, so

696
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: he's bad, so we can say anything we want, we

697
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: can harass him whatever, because we are on the moral side.

698
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: That's why this sort of like armchaired detective thing can

699
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: get so dangerous because the minute you decide that you

700
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: know who the bad guy is, well, then any behavior

701
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: you do toward that person is justified, even if you

702
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: don't have all the information.

703
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 6: Who is really the bad guy here, like the one

704
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 6: being accused to kill someone and the ones that are

705
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 6: trying to destroy this person because that's what they believe.

706
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I got that threads. They were like, we're

707
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: watching you, we.

708
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 6: Know where you are, we're gonna find you, We're gonna

709
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 6: I got all kinds of that threads, And it's like, wow,

710
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 6: who is the bad guy here?

711
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I know I did. Was just you know,

712
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 3: wear a black metal shirts.

713
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: So so you were actually in Mexico when Alisa Lamb died, right,

714
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 2: you were recording at a recording studio in Mexico. If

715
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: any authorities actually contact you.

716
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's the equivalent of the FBI in Mexico. Schooled

717
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 6: the PGR and they went to my house. But I

718
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 6: never made the connection until like years later. I was like, oh, yeah,

719
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 6: I remember because I had a house with a pool

720
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 6: and I just invited all these rock stars and all

721
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 6: these friends and we're always partying.

722
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 3: So he was, oh, yes, someone new. It was just

723
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: like a police dude.

724
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 6: But they actually went like three dudes to question me

725
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 6: if I had made any animal sacrifice, some some really

726
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 6: like ridiculous stuff like that. Wow, I was And that

727
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 6: was happening right at the same time when like the

728
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 6: investigation was going on in LA So I'm assuming maybe

729
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 6: they you know, found me.

730
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 3: And send them that is no fun.

731
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I was just friendly with them, like oh yeah, welcome,

732
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 6: welcome to my house.

733
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: Yeah you want to be here. I was out of

734
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 3: my mind back then.

735
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 4: Wow yeah, okay.

736
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: So did this stop you from making music for a while?

737
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it stopped me. That happened the cyber ruling.

738
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 6: I tried to commit suicide and I saw up and

739
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 6: I was just going to a lot of like problems

740
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 6: with a bad label, with a bad manager and so

741
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 6: many things going on. So I was like, Okay, maybe

742
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 6: I need to do something before.

743
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 3: It's my end.

744
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 6: And I just decided to go study film at the

745
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 6: New York Film Academy in twenty sixteen. Ever since sixteen,

746
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 6: s Fiel, Now, I've been just doing. I have my

747
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 6: own movie in a Cremortar Morbid. We're releasing next year

748
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 6: a feature. But I'm kind of making music. I used

749
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 6: to make a lot of songs. I used to have

750
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 6: a lot of albums. But I do miss it a lot,

751
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 6: and I wish I could keep making more music and

752
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 6: playing live.

753
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 3: And I'm actually planning a.

754
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 6: Tour and I did an acoustic show last month, and

755
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:42,959
Speaker 6: I wish I could be making music.

756
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 3: I did stop, and it's something I have in the horizon.

757
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 5: That's good.

758
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: Did part of you feel like if I were to

759
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: make music again, I will be harassed again?

760
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 5: Was that part of it?

761
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: You know? I see bands like, for people that know metal,

762
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 3: Cannibal Corpse.

763
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 6: I mean just the covert titles are like they will

764
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 6: get anyone cancel immediately. Nowadays, nowadays bandards.

765
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 3: And they can talk about it.

766
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 6: But in twenty fourteen, we didn't even have the cancel

767
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 6: culture term. I was like, every time I would want

768
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 6: to do something, it's a bit tarnish, you know, it's

769
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 6: a bit changer, like my freedom of expression that I

770
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 6: used to have some years kind of stopping me to

771
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 6: be as in your face as I used to be,

772
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 6: you know, with my music, with my videos.

773
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 3: It's weird and it sucks.

774
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 6: Like I said, Steinking has written about darker and more

775
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 6: bloodyer stuff that I ever will write about.

776
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, this is I guess this is what the

777
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 3: universe help to me. You know, I'm bottling with that regularly.

778
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: And when I made.

779
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 6: A song that my father and my mother liked, school Angelize,

780
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 6: So I guess I'm changing a little bit of style.

781
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I love that. If I ever made a

782
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 4: song my parents like that, I would feel really cool.

783
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 4: That's awesome.

784
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 2: Every song I make is.

785
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: The only one in like sixty or seventy songs that

786
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 3: I made that they like.

787
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 4: Oh wow, amazing.

788
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: In death metal and black metal, all the context is

789
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: like it's supposed to be shocking, it's supposed to be extreme.

790
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 2: It's supposed to refer to the most possible gore. Evil,

791
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: you know, like evil is part of it. It's like,

792
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: but it's a character. It's not real. It's like people

793
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: will go on stage and they'll put on this makeup.

794
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 2: They're making up characters. But you know when someone is

795
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: now interpreting that sort of evil character that's just an

796
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: outlet as something that's a true indicator of like a

797
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: person's behavior or character. Then like of course they're gonna

798
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: feel like they can't be free with their art anymore.

799
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a persona, you know, it's like a persona,

800
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 6: the alter ego.

801
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 3: You know some people like Sleeve, know they wear masks

802
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 3: or all their banks like that. It's like a persona.

803
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 6: And I mean my case, the alter egos I develop

804
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 6: right now, it's like extreme, like I have like a

805
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 6: full arm more with spikes like everywhere.

806
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: That makes perfect sense that you're psych you would be

807
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: like still everybody else.

808
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally.

809
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 2: Do you feel like getting your real story out there

810
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: with the Netflix documentary and all the subsequent press was

811
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 2: a major part of healing from that process?

812
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely.

813
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 6: And I'm forever internally grateful with with Joe Bellinger, Radical Media,

814
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 6: Samantha Grogin, the producer, because you know, they they they

815
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 6: earned my trust and I gave them my my crossbar

816
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 6: and they you know, yeah, they be indicated.

817
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 3: They kind of cleared my name.

818
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 6: I mean, there's no every day that you're blamed for murder,

819
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 6: you know, like my friend Ornie Adams was like usual an.

820
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 3: Artificial strike for murdered dude, like oh great.

821
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 6: But for example, I released a phone raiser last year

822
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 6: in New York and the fans they supported, and I

823
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 6: was able to record like an EP with five.

824
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 3: Songs, you know, so that's something that never happened before.

825
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 6: So in a way, it's like, okay, you know people

826
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 6: and all these beautiful messages from people saying hey, you know, like.

827
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 3: Don't stop, please keep making your art. Don't let this

828
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 3: stop defining you.

829
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 6: This isn't that, and they support and they want, you know,

830
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 6: they want to see me on stage.

831
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: They want to I got a record deal from someone.

832
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 6: And need to in in the UK, and I mean

833
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 6: opportunities arising, and yeah, it wasn't so before that, you

834
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,479
Speaker 6: know it was. It was also because I was kind

835
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 6: of away from it. I was like in the shadows,

836
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 6: like I went to the shadows.

837
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 3: For a while.

838
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I never thought I was going to be

839
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 6: out of you, to be honest, but it helped a lot.

840
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's it's a fantastic thing. You know. Who

841
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 3: would have known that, like they will have found me,

842
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 3: and you know, the the chances were like seriously, one

843
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 3: in a million. Yeah, the blame length for killing Islam.

844
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: It's really amazing that you've been able to kind of

845
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 2: take back yours story, because I feel like that doesn't

846
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 2: happen that often when websloose or whatever decide that someone

847
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: is bad. There are all these sort of different parts

848
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: of the Internet that can kind of engage in this stuff,

849
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: whether it's like fandoms or you know, certain kind of

850
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: cancel oriented subcultures or armchair detectives, like, there are all

851
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 2: these different kinds of parts of the Internet where piling

852
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: onto someone they think it's justified because they've decided that

853
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 2: the person is bad. And most of the time people

854
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: don't get vindicated. And you know, I've talked to a

855
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: couple of people who had fandoms coming after them in

856
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 2: a very aggressive way, like hundreds of new messages every

857
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 2: minute telling them they were terrible people. And some advice

858
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 2: that I heard them say, and that I've heard before

859
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: is that they will get bored.

860
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 5: The armchair detectives or whoever it is, like.

861
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 2: Will get bored eventually, and it's just about like riding

862
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: that wave and knowing that on the other side they

863
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: will move on to something else and eventually leave you alone.

864
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that people continue occasionally to harass you.

865
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 5: But would you say that that's true.

866
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: That like if you just kind of ride the wave,

867
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 2: like eventually it will die down.

868
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I think so.

869
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 6: In a way, it's like, uh that you know the

870
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 6: internet trolls, they feed from your misery.

871
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 3: So if you don't acknowledge them, they just whether out,

872
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: They just fade away. But you know you gotta like

873
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: really like.

874
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 6: Focus and not because you know the normal reaction will

875
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 6: be like maybe engage or something, but that's what they want.

876
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 2: So engage.

877
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, see your engagement block or just ignore

878
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 6: because why was you? They buy team It's harder to

879
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:47,479
Speaker 6: get them off from your back.

880
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: You actually posted a video of yourself in a mask

881
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: with your voice change saying that you're innocent. Do you

882
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: think that Do you regret doing that? Or are you

883
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: do kind of feel like that was the right thing

884
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: to do.

885
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 6: You know what, when I did it, I was just

886
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 6: looking for any way to like like get out there.

887
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 3: And defend myself.

888
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 6: Like I don't know, I wasn't thinking of like if

889
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 6: it would trigger them more, or if I was doing

890
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 6: the right thing or the wrong thing. I was just like,

891
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 6: I mean, they know my face, They're putting it out

892
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 6: there everywhere, you know, like I'm just gonna wear a mask.

893
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 6: And like, I guess in a way, I was trying

894
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 6: to protect myself, but some people saw it like even

895
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 6: it's more like mysterious for something I guess and maybe

896
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 6: trigger them more. But it was I remember, I think

897
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 6: it was just to try to just defend myself.

898
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 3: You get so desperate, you know, there's no way. Yeah.

899
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 3: The Windies is like, yeah, well it's also.

900
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 5: It's like with you.

901
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: It's especially interesting because I feel like there are conspiracy

902
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: theorists who they're they're using, they're like making connections that

903
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 2: they're really isn't an answer for There definitely is an

904
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: evidence supporting their conclusions, but there there's usually dealing in

905
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 2: such vague, unprovable stuff, and in your case, you were

906
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: provably not there.

907
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 4: Yeah that's the strange part.

908
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, and people were still sticking to their guns,

909
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 2: which just for me kind of drives home this idea

910
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: that truth doesn't really matter with this kind of thing.

911
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: It's not about facts, it's about what it's doing for

912
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: them emotionally. The meaning that it's providing to them. So

913
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: arguing with them, even if you're right, actually isn't going

914
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: to achieve anything because they don't care about what's right

915
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 2: in that instance. They're just grabbing onto a story that

916
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 2: feels exciting and is like bringing something to their lives. Right.

917
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, in this case, it was one person, a girl

918
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 6: that she's the one that started all like and she's

919
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 6: the one that went to my accountarted like taking stuff

920
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 6: and made the group and started telling everyone.

921
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 3: And I actually contacted.

922
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 6: Personally personally and I said, hey, you need to stop,

923
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 6: like you're like destroying my stuff, like I have a band,

924
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 6: I have you know, I'm a mission and I'm an artist.

925
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 3: You got to stop with this stuff.

926
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 6: And she just mocked me and kept doing it so

927
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 6: and everyone else started following her and doing the same.

928
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 3: So the way I will say.

929
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 6: It and not to sound too cryptic, is like I

930
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 6: don't really think that might just changed that much from

931
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 6: what we used to be like hundreds of years ago,

932
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 6: Like people just get together on the weekends with their

933
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 6: neighbors and ride to the next town to see the

934
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 6: public execution, you know, like it was there source of entertainment,

935
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 6: and now well they just enjoy watching some dude crash.

936
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 3: And burn online or the Twitter.

937
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like they just always want to have the

938
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 6: monster in the castle, you know.

939
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 3: So it's an Internet whitchcon. You know.

940
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 6: It's like there are some out there that are twisted

941
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 6: like that at least is the way I see it,

942
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 6: because not, of course, not everything.

943
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 3: It's like very popularized.

944
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 6: Like there's people that the opposite they're just very nice,

945
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,919
Speaker 6: like and that's the people that are like supporting me now.

946
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 6: But the other the other side of the internet is

947
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 6: like just really mean people that, like you said, they

948
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 6: just target someone and then they go to the next

949
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 6: and the next, you know, and it's it's a strange thing.

950
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 6: I mean, I have a little nephew that he uh

951
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 6: started his first Instagram account and he's very excited about

952
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 6: it and posting pictures.

953
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 3: And I was just like, hmmm, yeah, dude, be careful,

954
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 3: you know, like.

955
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, social media is scary right now. You don't know,

956
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 2: you know, anyone who's sort of loud can kind of

957
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: rile people up in a way that's kind of just scary.

958
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: I mean, it is scary.

959
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, scary. It's the world.

960
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 8: And that's the weird thing because I remember in the

961
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 8: early you know, ten years ago, Facebook was fine and

962
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 8: everything was fun online, and now it's like, yeah, you know,

963
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 8: all these counseled.

964
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 6: Parties and all these drama and all these people just

965
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 6: getting offense for everything. It's just like, oh my god,

966
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 6: Like surely, like this is not fun anymore.

967
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 5: This is it's not fun anyway.

968
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: The truth of Elisa Lamb is not exciting.

969
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 5: It's sad.

970
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: And I think that that is a I think that

971
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 2: people are drawn to stories that make us feel like

972
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: we can organize the world into good and bad and

973
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: that helps us make sense of what feels like a

974
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 2: very chaotic what is a very chaotic existence and a

975
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 2: very chaotic time in the world. But like the reality

976
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,720
Speaker 2: of somebody just like having you know, severe mental illness

977
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: and you know, having a manic episode and accidentally dying

978
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: is like kind of depressing and like.

979
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 4: There's nothing sexy about that.

980
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 5: It's not sexy.

981
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: It's just sad, no, and it is tragic that that happened.

982
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: But it's what's unfortunate is that, like we lose the

983
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: tragedy of that, and we lose what that could bring

984
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 2: attention to, which is the importance of good mental health

985
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: care for people. We lose that when the narrative is

986
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: all about finding the killer and you know, taking down

987
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 2: the killer, Like.

988
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 5: That's that's not what we need.

989
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: What we need is support from our neighbors. We need

990
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 2: a community around us, Like that's what we need. And

991
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: that is the thing that will also ultimately if we

992
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 2: ever can get to that place, help bring down this

993
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: particular culture, because it's something that people do. It's something

994
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: that they are drawn to when their lives are lacking

995
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 2: meaning or community or something else.

996
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: You know.

997
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're very isolated and twisted people that at this way,

998
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 6: you know, I wouldn't be able to say any other way.

999
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 3: And you're right.

1000
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 6: I mean people god lost into trying to find who's

1001
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 6: a killer, who's a bad guy, and they lose.

1002
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 3: Focus of you know, at least and her issues, what

1003
00:47:58,800 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 3: she was going through.

1004
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 6: People should be honoring her life instead of talking about

1005
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 6: her dead all the.

1006
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 3: Time, you know.

1007
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 6: And I mean maybe this is why this happened, you know,

1008
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 6: like it's in a way her dad is to put

1009
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 6: it put out there how.

1010
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 3: Important this is, you know, And I don't know.

1011
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 6: I mean in my case, I talk, I talk and

1012
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 6: think about her almost it's more like a sister to

1013
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 6: me and my own sister. It was like, you know,

1014
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 6: it's a weird thing for years, so I'm always trying

1015
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 6: to do something about the message with the Alissa Lamp situation,

1016
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 6: you know, like, but I'm also going to this. Your

1017
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 6: mother told me this, like going to start rolling is

1018
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 6: like a pilgrim match, you know, like you're really not

1019
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 6: on the other side.

1020
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 3: Who knows.

1021
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 6: When you're on the other side, you still go through

1022
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 6: all that stuff, you know, and you carry it you

1023
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 6: and learn as you go. But yeah, I mean I've

1024
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 6: never heard that.

1025
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 2: That's great.

1026
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, she put some sense into my mind in some

1027
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:05,760
Speaker 6: of my barkers times.

1028
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 3: She was like she helped me a bit. So yeah,

1029
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 3: she's very good.

1030
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: Well, is there anything else that you want to say

1031
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 2: or or any message, like what's your takeaway here?

1032
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,320
Speaker 6: Just you know, be very I mean everyone has phones,

1033
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 6: even kids, especially kids, and uh it's very you know,

1034
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 6: we are very very responsible what we post, what we

1035
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 6: say to others.

1036
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 3: Like in my case, it was just the wrong posts.

1037
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 6: And that's all it took, you know, and then I

1038
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 6: lost everything and I almost died, and some people die

1039
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 6: and even successful people with money, any socio economical status.

1040
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 6: The cyber worllan doesn't respect nothing, and it's it's a

1041
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 6: serious thing, and they think your more. Doctor Krisimri said

1042
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 6: this as well, you know the psychological community, I guess,

1043
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 6: like you know, the doctors that study these subjects, they

1044
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 6: still don't agree that this is like something that should

1045
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 6: be in a book.

1046
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 3: You know that that's something a raal issue.

1047
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 6: Same with the with the law. I mean, just I

1048
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 6: have a friend, her name is rachelon Bookie, she's Miss Kenya,

1049
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 6: and she was cyberbullied by this dude. He was going

1050
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 6: crazy and for a few years, and she managed to

1051
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 6: put an end to it, like she I think she

1052
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 6: found a lawyer in Germany and then where the laws

1053
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 6: of cyber bulling are actually they are a bands over

1054
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 6: there and they managed to stop the cyberbully. And he's

1055
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 6: facing jail or a huge fine like two hundred thousand

1056
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 6: dollars or something if he keeps doing this. So yeah,

1057
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 6: so that's also that's the thing of I think started

1058
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 6: willing something so you that the world is not really

1059
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 6: embracing it as an issue, but it's really dangerous and

1060
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 6: it's a crime, I mean, slander, harassment, it's a crime.

1061
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: And if you're getting cyrbally or slander.

1062
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 6: Talk to you know, if you're in school, talk to

1063
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 6: you know the principles, Talk to parents, go to the police,

1064
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 6: you know, report the people. I mean, it's a crime.

1065
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 6: Then software alone, you know, like, don' soffer in silence.

1066
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 6: And this is this is the message I've been saying

1067
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 6: for years because I suffered in silence for years, and yeah,

1068
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 6: it almost killed me.

1069
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 3: You know, it's serious. It's a serious thing, and.

1070
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 6: Just acknowledging that it's a dangerous thing and that we

1071
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 6: have we all have to be responsible h on what

1072
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 6: we post. I mean, they remember on the other side

1073
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 6: of that screen, there's a human. You know, where you post,

1074
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 6: there's a human on the other side.

1075
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 2: So we want to believe that we're really smart and

1076
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: we can figure stuff out. We know, but we don't

1077
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,479
Speaker 2: always have all the information. And it's also being fed

1078
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: to us through the lens of the media that might

1079
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: get some thing wrong. A media outlet them get something wrong.

1080
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: Someone on Twitter or TikTok, you might get something wrong.

1081
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: So I think it like if safely err on the

1082
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 2: side of assuming you don't know everything before setting out

1083
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 2: to take someone down, I think that that's just really important.

1084
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: And I think also something you said is really important

1085
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: that don't suffer alone. And I wondered if there are

1086
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: any resources, like are there support groups for this if

1087
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,919
Speaker 2: someone being cyberbullied, Like where would you turn if you're

1088
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: feeling alone and you're experiencing this.

1089
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a few.

1090
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 6: I've been I made the cover of these magazine God

1091
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 6: mccaver and they called me the cyber bullying worst Nightmare.

1092
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 6: So I've been like kind of like embracing these and

1093
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 6: I know a few of them.

1094
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 3: I don't know all of them.

1095
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 6: And it's also something very new for me. But you

1096
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 6: can go basity. You can visit the one called Cybersmile

1097
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 6: blog borg. They are in New York and they are

1098
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 6: like top of the line. Well they're one of the

1099
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 6: biggest ones. And I think they had Selema Selena Gomez

1100
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 6: baring them like they worked with some celebrities and high

1101
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 6: profile people.

1102
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 3: Cybersmile dot org. There's metal Heads Against Bullying dot org.

1103
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 3: Love yeah, I think in Norway cool. Yeah. Yeah.

1104
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 6: Last month they did an acoustic show and raised some

1105
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 6: funds for both of them. Sorry for metal Heads Against

1106
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 6: Bullying and Sophie Lancaster organization that's Sophie Lecaster if anyone knows,

1107
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 6: she was a god girl. She was only twenty years

1108
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 6: old and she was killed by teenagers in Lancaster, UK

1109
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 6: in two thousand and seven because she was just she

1110
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 6: was a god.

1111
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 3: Girl, like a godly girl and god she.

1112
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 6: Was killed because of that, just they jumped on her

1113
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 6: and her boyfriend. So it's a real thing, you know,

1114
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 6: like hate crimes and cyber bullying and just because you're different,

1115
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 6: things like that. But yeah, there's a few. You can

1116
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 6: also message me in morbid one dot com. I can

1117
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 6: link you with more right now on the top. I'm

1118
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 6: a bit rusty this year. I didn't do a lot

1119
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 6: of interviews. I had two deaths in my family and

1120
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,720
Speaker 6: I'd been emotionally drained. But I can if you contact

1121
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 6: me out send you more details about it.

1122
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 2: But I think the work that you're doing is very

1123
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 2: important talking about this and spreading awareness about cyberbullying, because yeah,

1124
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 2: it is still such a new thing. The laws are

1125
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 2: not there yet, and they need to be there. It's

1126
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: it's not acceptable that people's lives and psychological well being

1127
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 2: would be destroyed by a bunch of people attacking them online.

1128
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 2: I just I just you know, that's got to change.

1129
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 5: It just does.

1130
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like I said, it doesn't matter.

1131
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 6: There's a few stories an actress from Japan and I

1132
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 6: think there's a newscaster from Australia and you know, they

1133
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 6: were pretty successful in their careers like family, you know,

1134
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 6: wealth and everything, and they got CYBERBULLI and they killed themselves.

1135
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 3: I mean, this is this is a serious thing. I mean, yeah,

1136
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 3: could be.

1137
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 6: On top of the world, you get cybrable and it

1138
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 6: could destroy you. So it's like a serious thing, you know.

1139
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 6: And I hopefully I can do ale commentary about this

1140
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 6: at some point because I think maybe maybe I should,

1141
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 6: Yeah experiences first hand. Maybe you can help me if

1142
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 6: I if I'm I'm gonna release it next year or something.

1143
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, hit me up.

1144
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, thank you. And your social media is.

1145
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 6: What you can find all my handles in morbid one

1146
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 6: dot com. My Instagram is Pablo Regara dots morbid, but

1147
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 6: everything is in morbid one dot com. Also, my YouTube

1148
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 6: is Morbid TV and I'm releasing my own film called

1149
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 6: Neckmorder Morbid. We're in the last stage of post production,

1150
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 6: so we're releasing a cool campaign like a fan campaigning one.

1151
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 3: Hundred people to join the film.

1152
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 6: So we're releasing this increasemas like in a few weeks

1153
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 6: and anyone can support us. We have writer we need

1154
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 6: to finish, you know, the post production funds for the

1155
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 6: end and that kind of stuff. But yeah, I'm always

1156
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 6: posting about my music, my film, my acting, and you

1157
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,959
Speaker 6: can just check all my updates through my official side

1158
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 6: and yeah and my albums, upcoming shows.

1159
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 4: Awesome.

1160
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,399
Speaker 2: That can't wait to support in any way we can.

1161
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: And I'm so happy that you are still making your art.

1162
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 2: I think that's very important.

1163
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 6: Thank you, Thank you so much. It wouldn't be possible

1164
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 6: if you're watching for you, you know, and the fans

1165
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 6: that supported me back. I'm very grateful and yeah it

1166
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 6: could be I have a tear under my eye right now,

1167
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 6: but you can see.

1168
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 5: Well, thanks for joining us.

1169
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 7: Very metal, right it's so metal.

1170
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 5: It's the most metal metal. I love it metal forever.

1171
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 5: Thank you, Pablo. It was so great to talk to you.

1172
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 4: Thank you, Pablo.

1173
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 3: Thank you. Trust me called Extreme Belief and Manipulation Podcast.

1174
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 5: He is so sweet.

1175
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that he came on. So I don't

1176
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 2: I don't have a question for you, but I just

1177
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: had a thought, oh give share. Well, I think like

1178
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 2: after watching documentaries like Don't Fuck with Cats, where do

1179
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: you remember that one?

1180
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 4: Of course?

1181
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 5: So like the.

1182
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 2: Web sleuths basically like helped track down this murderer this

1183
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 2: like cat killer and also human Killer guy. And for me,

1184
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: as I was watching that, I remember very clearly being

1185
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: like web sloths are amazing. People on the internet can

1186
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 2: figure anything, we can do anything. I want to solve

1187
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 2: a murder just by sitting at home on my computer.

1188
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: And while it is true that like that was cool

1189
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 2: and occasionally cool things happen like that, it seems to

1190
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: me that like the majority of the time, that's not

1191
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 2: how it goes.

1192
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: There's that Iowa murder happening right now and some woman

1193
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: it's a big deal right now because they can't find

1194
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: the person. Somebody just knifed four students to death.

1195
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 4: It was so gruesome.

1196
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: There was like blood running down the outside of the house.

1197
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: Show right, I miss this.

1198
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 4: I don't know it happened probably like two months ago.

1199
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: But people are making accusations at people. So one woman's

1200
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 1: a teacher and this girl in Texas was like, I'm

1201
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: a psychic.

1202
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 4: I know this teacher did it. No, she's guilty one

1203
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 4: hundred percent.

1204
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: And there's just stuff like this flying around where like

1205
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: one of the boyfriends of one of the students is like,

1206
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to kill myself, and everybody's just getting accused

1207
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: left right in the center, and you can just see

1208
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: where like with the growth of the internet is growth

1209
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: of potential bullying of innocent people.

1210
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, and again, everyone always thinks

1211
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 2: they're doing good.

1212
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes they are, and there's nothing wrong with the urge

1213
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: to want to help and find a bad guy. It's

1214
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: just bad if you actually think that you are finding

1215
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: the bad guy.

1216
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 4: From their computer, because most of the time you can't.

1217
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 2: And as we know, there I mean endless cases throughout history,

1218
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 2: like sometimes there will be a few things that point

1219
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 2: to one person and it's still not concrete evidence that

1220
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 2: that person did the thing.

1221
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 4: You know, it's complicated.

1222
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 1: People feel like the police aren't doing enough because they

1223
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: haven't found anyone, they haven't released any suspects or whatever.

1224
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: So I can understand where people would get very frustrated

1225
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: because it's a college town where they're like, you're fine,

1226
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,959
Speaker 1: there's just a madman on the loose, but have fun

1227
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: with it, you know, parents, people are like, fuck no,

1228
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: So I get it. It's a human urge.

1229
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 2: Well, people who are impacted by the crime should absolutely

1230
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 2: do anything in their power to try to solve the

1231
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 2: case and provide resources and even reach out for tips

1232
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 2: or whatever. But like random people on the internet, just

1233
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: like deciding that someone seems suspicious or saying you psychically

1234
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 2: know that that person, that's where it starts to get real, Harry,

1235
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: And that's when I mean, you know, there are many

1236
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: people who have been executed on little to no evidence.

1237
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 2: And as we know, and we talked about in the

1238
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 2: last episode, you know, the West Memphis three for example,

1239
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 2: in jail for a murderer for years on no evidence

1240
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 2: other than people's hunches, and just like a feeling that

1241
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 2: they got. And I just I just really want to

1242
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 2: emphasize our feelings don't mean as much as we think

1243
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 2: they do.

1244
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of what we've discovered here, isn't it.

1245
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 2: And coincidences aren't always as meaningful as they seem like

1246
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 2: they are.

1247
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 5: That's all.

1248
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 4: That's all.

1249
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for spending another week with us.

1250
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you here next time, and

1251
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: as always, remember to follow your Gut, Watch Out for

1252
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: rad Flags and never Ever.

1253
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 4: Trust Me, Bye Bye.

1254
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 2: Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1255
01:00:58,520 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1256
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: The special thanks to Stacy Para and her theme song

1257
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: was composed by Holly amber Church. You can find us

1258
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram at trust Me Podcast, Twitter at trust Me

1259
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: Cult Pod, or on TikTok at trust Me Cult Podcast.

1260
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1261
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1262
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1263
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.