1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: It could happen here. It's the show where we hate McDonald's. 2 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: I'm your host, be a long professional McDonald's haater, and 3 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: with me to talk about hating McDonald's is Mira, who's 4 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: a freelance journalist. And you need an organizer. Miro, Welcome 5 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: to the show. 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: It's great to be here. Thank you for having me. 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, So specifically, there are lots of the 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: hating McDonald's is like an ancient anarchist tradition. I think 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm actually not sure how well it is known today, 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: but I'm about eighty percent sure that the tradition of 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: breaking Starbucks windows was actually originally like a it was 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: actually originally a thing about breaking like it came from 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: like a bunch of campaigns. I think it definitely in France. 14 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: I think also in Mexico that like anytime a Starbucks, Starbucks, 15 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, anytiving McDonald's would open up, everyone would immediately 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: start breaking the windows. 17 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: That's the only proper way to handle on McDonald's. And yeah, 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: professional opinion. 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: But the reason we're talking about McDonald's is that, Yeah, 20 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: you tried to organize a McDonald's union, which is I 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: guess the other thing you could do with the McDonald's 22 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: other than lighting it on fire, which is it you could? Oh, 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: I guess, I guess there are those people in France 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: who took it over and turned it into like a 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: food co op or something. 26 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 2: But a third thing you can do with. 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: It, discovered a third A third thing to do with 28 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: the McDonald's. Let's get the towers. Yeah, but uh, yeah, 29 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about I guess what you know, Okay, 30 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to use Yeah, so you you've written a 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: very good piece about this in strange matters, uh called 32 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: my Mcunion that is really good, and I wanted to 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: talk about sort of the piece, the sort of nitty 34 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,279 Speaker 1: gritty aspect of like what it's like to organize a union, 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: and also just about McDonald's because Jesus Christ, good Lord, no, I. 36 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: Have so much to talk about, so more than happy too. 37 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I guess, okay, I think I think we 38 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: should start with just the sort of McDonald's miss of 39 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: it all. I wanted to start with just talking a 40 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: bit about what it's actually like to work on a 41 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: McDonald's because I, well, okay, a, I feel like it's 42 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: not actually universal experience anymore for like people who have 43 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: worked at a fast food restaurant and b I think 44 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: people who it's it's a thing you blought out of 45 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: your collective memory very quickly because it sucked. But yeah, yeah, okay, 46 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: so what is it actually like when you show up 47 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: to your shift. 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: So McDonald's was my first job, and it was a 49 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: hell of an introduction. Yes, the moment you would come in, 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: you would be most days bombarded with constant orders on 51 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: the screen because they had these little screens both in 52 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: the front and back drill area that like showed all 53 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: the orders they had. And like a good sixty seventy 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: percent of the time I came in, people would just 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: be swamped with orders. They'd be running around being like, oh, 56 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 2: thank god you hear. We need someone to get on 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: right now. And it's like you don't even get a 58 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: moment to breathe. Like, as you're standing there waiting to 59 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: clock in on their punching machine, you're just like, oh, 60 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: dear God, I'm gonna have a fucking terrible time. And 61 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 2: as you're running around, you know, cooking everything after you 62 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: clock in, you're getting streamed at by your bosses right 63 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: by you because they're like, oh no, a customer complained 64 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: because there was too many pickles on their sandwich, And 65 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: then you'll hear someone yelling from the drive through window 66 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: on top of that, and then you might have people 67 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: at the front counter. This was before proven, so McDonald's 68 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: still had front counters when people would come in. I 69 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: don't know if every McDonald's does, but everyone I've been 70 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: to since has just closed down internally. And I envied that. 71 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: But you would have people yelling from there, and if 72 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: you were one of the unfortunate souls who ended up 73 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: working directly facing the customers and not just cooking, you 74 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: would be the one getting screamed at by all parties involved. 75 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: I later worked at a Windy's where I got a 76 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 2: taste of that, and I walked out three days into March. 77 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. 78 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: Stuff sucks. 79 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that, you know, I think like 80 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: one of the things I think like compounds this is, 81 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, okay, I will, I will, I will, I 82 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: will do a theory, which is that I think people 83 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: have a really weird understanding of what it means to 84 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: have a job on a sort of theoretical level that 85 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: dates back to a genuinely, very weird period in the 86 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: twentieth century where people actually had like stable hours. Yeah, 87 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: and that's just not how any of this works, right, 88 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: Like you know, you like, there is no actual stable 89 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: amount of hours. You just get you get some number 90 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: of hours like a week that you're assigned to. But 91 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: then you know, but this these least to do a 92 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,239 Speaker 1: thing that we've out god like, like literally every single 93 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: field we've talked about unidizing has this problem, which is 94 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: just understaffing, because why the fuck would you have enough 95 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: people to do a job? Would you could have less 96 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: than enough people to do a job and pave them less. 97 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: That That was my experience on McDonald and fast food 98 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: in general. You would get such inconsistent numbers of hours 99 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: that you wouldn't know how much money you'd be making 100 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: in the month, because, for all you know, this month, 101 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: you could be working you know, every regular day, every 102 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 2: business day of the week. You could be working only weekends, 103 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: or you could be like I was after the union 104 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: got busted spoiler alert, uh, working three hours on Sundays 105 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: in the mornings. And that's it if they really wanted to. 106 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: And there's nothing that outside of a union you can 107 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: do to prevent them from and outside of you know 108 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: niche legal areas where you can maybe push back, you 109 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: can't really do much if they decide just not to 110 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: staff you. And there is people working there who they 111 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: had like full blown kids, families relying on them in 112 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: that job. They weren't making much Pennsylvania, butimum wage was 113 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 2: seven twenty five and you know they were paying us that. Yeah, 114 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: and so from what little they could get, they would 115 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 2: maybe get like at best a one hundred bucks a 116 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: week with their hours, unless they were able to get 117 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: into like a managerial position where it's the only one 118 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: where you'd be kind of guaranteed ours in the sense 119 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: that they desperately need you so they'll throw you on whatever. 120 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: Beyond that, it's you also don't know the days you're 121 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: going to work too. Yeah. 122 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, This thing I was gonna ask is like, what, 123 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: like how how much time do you have between finding 124 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: out you're going to be on a shift and then 125 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: like being on the shift. 126 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: You can have anywhere from several days notice to under 127 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 2: twelve hours notice, And there is no way to predict 128 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: what's going to happen the next week. Is it all 129 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: depends on when you're going to get staffed. There were 130 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: points I found out day out when I was going 131 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: to be working. 132 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. Yeah yeah, and like this, I mean, this 133 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: is the thing that like is becoming. This is the 134 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: way that labor used to work in like the eighteen hundreds, 135 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: and then you know, it was just sort of like 136 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: phased out because it turns out this is actually a 137 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: stunningly inefficient way to actually like like run a business. 138 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: But you know, we've reached the thing that happened at 139 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: the end of history. Is it's not the history ended, 140 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: it's that like capital needing to be efficient end and 141 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: now they just like do this shit and it's like, well, okay, 142 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: so it doesn't matter if this is like a terribly 143 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: an efficient way to run things. It's you just like 144 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's a mechanism designed to just like 145 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: absolutely destroyed like the sort of psyches and lives of 146 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: the people who are doing the thing. 147 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is completely accurate. They do not give a 148 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: rat's ass about anyone working there. For a second. Everyone 149 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: working there is completely expendable, even if they're a manager. 150 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: There's been points people have worked there for like three 151 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: four months and got promoted to a manager. There's everyone 152 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: is expendable, and they they make sure you know that too, 153 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: and how they treat you, You're not treated with any dignity, 154 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 2: with any respect. You're just completely thrown around at their 155 00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: whims and the whims of upper management, you know, the 156 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: the regional managers and the like. And it's it's awful 157 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: because how they get away with that model is they 158 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: know there's always going to be some people who are 159 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: desperate to work at McDonald's, either because they're young and 160 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: need to get a first job, or they're down on 161 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 2: their luck and need to get something to pay the bills. 162 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: I've even hitting hard times trying to reapply at McDonald's 163 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 2: since working there because I needed to pay the bill. 164 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 2: I was in that exact position again and fairly recently, 165 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: and so it's it's not a fun place to be, 166 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 2: to put it mildly, Yeah, of course they didn't let 167 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 2: me work there again because I believe I'm banned from 168 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: ever working at a McDonald's again. 169 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: That's a That's another thing that I think is not 170 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: that well understood, like loss of companies just have basically 171 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: not even like there are there are people that I 172 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: know who are blacklisted, like from shit they did dream 173 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: occupy like people like, yeah, like like that they're these 174 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: these things, these things suck and if you like, you know, 175 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: this is I guess one of the sort of issues 176 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: of doing any kind of organizing is that like if 177 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: you lose, like stuff can go like very badly for you, 178 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: which sucks. But also simultaneously, if you don't organize things 179 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: we go very badly for you. So it's you know, 180 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: so it's a double or yeah, yeah, I guess just 181 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: one everything I wanted to ask, which I don't know, 182 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: if you know do you do you know if you're 183 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: if you're uh, if your McDonald's was a franchise, if 184 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: it was like actually owned by the company. 185 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: So yes, it was a franchise. It wasn't don by 186 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 2: like the official company in any major sense. I actually 187 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: met the franchise owner during the course of the union, 188 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: which was a fun time when we were in the 189 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 2: process of getting busted. Oh boy. 190 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, So do you want to explain what a franchise is? 191 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: And I guess, like how that sort of model works. 192 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, So most McDonald's out there are franchises, which basically 193 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: means McDonald's will kind of let independent people buy out 194 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: their stores and own and manage them in a certain region. 195 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: For a portion of the profits in the Scranton area, 196 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: which was where I did the union, they were all 197 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 2: owned by one single family who was ultra rich, in 198 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 2: part because of the McDonald's and in part because of 199 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: family inheritances, and these folks they would be the kind 200 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: of be treated as like the head Honchow's, the same 201 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: way that CEOs get talked about at most companies. They 202 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 2: weren't the CEOs, of course, but like as far as 203 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: in terms of managing greets, rant and area McDonald's went, 204 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: they were the main ones in charge. Of course McDonald's 205 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 2: corporate always have the final say over everything, but they 206 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 2: manage tens of thousands of restaurants across the world, so 207 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: they don't really get involved in any of the nitty gritty, 208 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: which is why they kind of let people own these franchises. 209 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, which I think is really interesting. It's like they've 210 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: managed to somehow combine it like the worst aspects of 211 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: working for a major corporation with the worst aspects of 212 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: working for like a small business tyrant. Which it's interesting 213 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: too because it's like, I don't know, this is like 214 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: one of the weird things about McDonald because like McDonald's, 215 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: McDonald's Corporate doesn't make money from hamburgers. They're basically a 216 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: real estate company that like sells franchises to people, but simultaneous. 217 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: But that means that like they can do things, like 218 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: they can force their franchises to do things that are 219 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: like unprofitable because it doesn't matter to them, Like there's 220 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: they're still getting paid, Like they're still getting paid there 221 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: like licensing, like franchising fees or whatever, like no matter 222 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: what sort of like shit is happening there. Yeah, And 223 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: that's I don't know, it's it strikes me. It's like 224 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: a really interesting It strikes me as like the exact 225 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: arrangement that's like the most likely to create a fascist, 226 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: just like because like you know, you have a group 227 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: of people like and I think I think it's a 228 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: good agm with this. This is what like quote unquote 229 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: economic anxiety is. Is you have like a you have 230 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: like you have a sort of middle level of like this, 231 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, the middle level of person who is a 232 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: capitalist but is also getting squeezed from the top down 233 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: like by a by larger corporations and then also is 234 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: facing bought about pressure from workers, and so their solution 235 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: to this is just like ruthlessly, like you know, just 236 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: just like ruthlessly do a fascism against like everyone who's 237 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: working for them. 238 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, scratch a liberal and the fascist reads. 239 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a more. 240 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: True than McDonald's and fast food really than anywhere. Yeah, 241 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: the mcfascists reign supreme. Ah. 242 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: So speaking of mcfascists, Uh, the products and services these 243 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: are too. These are two distinct sentences. They are not related. 244 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: Uh FCC please, actually, no, fuck you. The SCC doesn't 245 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: well no, no, the SCC. The SCC does not regulate us. 246 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: I think we're actually regulated by the FTC. So fuck 247 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: the SEC. That's why I could swear on this podcast 248 00:14:47,160 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: because they don't recomplain us. And we're back. Okay. So, 249 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: having having returned to more mcfascism, Yeah, okay, so I 250 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: guess we should start talking about how the union organizing 251 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: started and how I guess the sort of immediate mistake 252 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: that y'all made attempting to get this, to get this 253 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: off the ground. 254 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it started with me. I was the first 255 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 2: one there to bring up the concept of reunion because 256 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: then I was like only seventeen, I was new to 257 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: anarchism still, and so I was young, green, and eager 258 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: to get shit done. I still am all the above, Yeah, 259 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 2: but I had a few contacts to local IWW people 260 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 2: through just the very very faint activist networks that were 261 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: up there, and by faint, I mean a total of 262 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 2: like five people. So I got in contact with the 263 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: IWW guy I believe. I used the name Mark. Yes, 264 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: I used the name Mark in the article to protect 265 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: his anonymity, so I'll just keep consistency. And Mark was 266 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 2: the one who convinced me to take more major steps. 267 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: He was the one who I talked to and got 268 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: consultation about it, and he was the one who gave 269 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 2: all that initial guidance. And there was a few friends 270 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: of mine I had there there also, not really anarchists. 271 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: Most of them were just like your soci dems, but 272 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: they were They were eager to get something done and 273 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: help out, so you know, can't complain there. And it 274 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 2: was like a small core group of us who all 275 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 2: wanted to get involved and get this out and done. 276 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 2: And we had never done anything like this before. Northeast 277 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: Pennsylvania does have a strong history of unions there, but 278 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 2: we were not part of that history initially, and so 279 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: it ended up going south unfortunately. Pretty it went well 280 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: at first, but I think some of the main issues 281 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 2: we had in hindsight doing things, especially now having more 282 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 2: experience in organizing under my belt, in hindsight, we rushed 283 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: things way too much. We were trying to get everyone 284 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 2: on board. We didn't do sufficient one on one conversations 285 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: with people, We didn't do sufficient intel gathering, and we 286 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 2: didn't we relied too much on our technical tools and 287 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: left too much incriminating evidence that we trusted too many 288 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 2: people with. We didn't really have a strong way of 289 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 2: going about it that would have been better for what 290 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 2: we were doing. 291 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess this comes to one and I 292 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: think of the main things that you're talking about here, 293 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: and I think is one of the main things about 294 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: you know, union organizing that like, like pretty much no 295 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: matter who you talk to wright politically, the the things 296 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: that are important to get a union to work are 297 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: kind of similar, which is that, Yeah, Like it's usually 298 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: a very slow process. It's a process of building relationships, 299 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: and it's a process of figuring out who in your work, well, 300 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: who in your workplays people sort of trust and respect 301 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: and like make friends with and figuring out how to 302 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: sort of how to get them involved in how to 303 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: get I don't know how how unions are not just 304 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: sort of like abstract things like they're they're they're they're 305 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,479 Speaker 1: built of actuals, like social relationships that you have with 306 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: another person and another and other gifts and in the 307 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: relationships that they have with other people, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, Yeah, 308 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about how, how okay, when when 309 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: when you were sort of starting to do this right, 310 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: how how were you sort of identifying the people you 311 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: needed to talk to and what kinds of things were 312 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: you doing to try to get them involved and try 313 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: to like map out how the workplace functioned. 314 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 2: So the first people identify for people that I thought 315 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 2: I could trust, and the core group of people I 316 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 2: had were folk that in regards to the union, I 317 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 2: in hindsight was able to trust. We all agreed on 318 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: the same issues, and we all had the kind of 319 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: a similar more gung ho attitude. I think me definitely 320 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: the most out of everyone. We fell into a pitfall 321 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 2: where I was kind of pushing the union by myself 322 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 2: for a bit, which is definitely easy to fall into. Yeah, 323 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: but we in terms of identifying the workplace leaders, the 324 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:30,959 Speaker 2: natural leaders found there, we mostly relied on conversations with 325 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 2: Mark to do that. We talked with him about who 326 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 2: worked there. We gave a brief list of everyone who 327 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 2: worked there, and we kind of just pinpointed them the 328 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: specific people we saw as leaders and left spent that 329 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 2: And I mean, as far as basic charting goes, it 330 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: wasn't terrible, but there is definitely a lot to be 331 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 2: desired and it could have been far more fleshed out. 332 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: What do you think that would have looked like? Or 333 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: you know, what does it look like in sort of 334 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: like other campaigns that you've run that were like the 335 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: first one you ever tried to do at seventeen. 336 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 2: So charting as I would do it now, it should 337 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: be done from the start before even approaching the first 338 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 2: person unless you extremely trust the person, like you are 339 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 2: just bonded for life. You know, you can't go without 340 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: them unless you have like really deep trust with the person. Initially, 341 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: you shouldn't approach anyone but you going into it. You 342 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 2: should start off with if you can reaching out to 343 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: an IWW rep. But if you can't make a detailed 344 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 2: chart of who's in your workplace, what positions they're at, 345 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 2: what team they're on, Like in terms of if they're 346 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: on one person's managed area or another person's managed area, 347 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 2: you should should figure out who they're close to, who 348 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: they listen to, live in demographic information because you want 349 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 2: your unions to be intersextional, and you want to be 350 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 2: able to figure out above all else, whether or not 351 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 2: you've had away from work one on one with them, 352 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: and whether or not you've had any talks with them 353 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: prior about unions and where they might stand on unions. 354 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: You want to document all that and it doesn't have 355 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 2: to be the most detail. You can just do a 356 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 2: spreadsheet with it, but it can definitely be a lot 357 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 2: to document. And it's it's no joke. It's not something 358 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 2: that should be rushed. It's not fun. I you know, 359 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 2: there's there's nothing really that's a blast about trying to 360 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 2: sit there and be like, ah, yes, let me fill 361 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: out paperwork about my workplace employees. But it will come 362 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 2: back and save you so many times and give help 363 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: you formulate strategies for going word and we we rush 364 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 2: things and talk did things like talking to people on 365 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: the workplace floor and just said, hey, do you want 366 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: to do a union yeah, and call that a day 367 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: and said that was one on one and it wasn't. 368 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, should we explain what one on one like is 369 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: supposed to be? 370 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, So one on one is. It doesn't necessarily have 371 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 2: to be on one on one, but it should be 372 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: between at least a union organizer and another person. It 373 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 2: could potentially be another more seasoned organizer helping be a 374 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 2: more noviced one along with during the one on one. 375 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: That could be a thing, but ideally they are just 376 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: one or two organizers talking to one workplace employee about 377 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: initially anyway noncommittal discussion on where what their issues are 378 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: in the workplace, what griefances they might have, and what 379 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 2: their current stances on workplace organizing. 380 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Another thing I wanted to sort of get 381 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: into is the role of like having having a way 382 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: to talk to people outside of work and having just 383 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: sort of a collaborative space where people talk about and 384 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: I think this is something that like I don't know, 385 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: I think this is you know, this is one of 386 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: the big things. I think that that this is one 387 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: of the big things that's changed in the past, you know, 388 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: maybe like decade and a half or so is that 389 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: how like the the the actual space in which people 390 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: talk about a union like tends on to be a 391 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: physical space anymore. It tends to be sort of either 392 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: like a signal chat or like a Facebook chat, like 393 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: a I guess what'sapp technically is owned by Facebook. But yeah, 394 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: and so yeah, I want to talk a bit about that, 395 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: and also I guess get into the sort of security 396 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: problems that you can have with this, because yeah, yeah, so. 397 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 2: That's what we did. We had a group chat on 398 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: Facebook Messenger to talk to everyone about the union and 399 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: everything like that. And there's a lot of pros to 400 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 2: having a centralized group chat, don't get me grown. It 401 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: makes an easy way to communicate when you're trying to 402 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: take actions to other people. It can be helpful to 403 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 2: do any last minute coordination needed. It can be useful 404 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 2: to make sure everyone's on the same page. But there's 405 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 2: also major drawbacks to it. One. As you mentioned, there's 406 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 2: big privacy concerns, and we ran into that during the campaign. 407 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 2: If with anything organizing, you're only as secure as your 408 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: weakest link, and if you have people you do not 409 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: completely one hundred percent trust in your group chat, someone 410 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: could meek everything either wittingly or unwittingly. In our case 411 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: it was wittingly, but you very well could have someone 412 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: who isn't being careful and might show the group chat 413 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: to someone else who they shouldn't on accident. And unless 414 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 2: everyone's on the same page about best security practices, you're 415 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 2: not going to get very far with having that. And 416 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 2: for another, doing any form of organizing over texts and 417 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: a major capacity is really hard. Yeah, there's so many 418 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: issues with like making sure people are understanding their tone 419 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 2: and undercommunicating properly and just meeting each other on the 420 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 2: same level that you really can't do over text like 421 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: you can do in person. If a text medium should 422 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 2: in my view, only be there to facilitate interactions that 423 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 2: are later done at best in person, but if not, 424 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 2: they can be done through like video calls. 425 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, as much as zoom can be really annoying, 426 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: like it is way more productive than trying to do 427 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: things too text Like Yeah, just like having just like 428 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: just like having a weekly zoom meeting. You know, like 429 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: like there there's there's a lot of like cases where 430 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: you like, you know, you literally physically can't be in 431 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: the same place and you know, and if that's that's 432 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: the thing you're dealing with. Like, yeah, doing video calls 433 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: and stuff like that makes it way way easier, for sure. 434 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 2: It It is a way better medium to do anything 435 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 2: union related with. And it's also much easier to bond 436 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 2: with people over video chat too, And that's a huge 437 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: part of the union is connecting with your other film 438 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 2: workers and meeting each other on that same level and 439 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: bonded over your shared interests, over your share what you 440 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 2: desire from union, what you desire from your workplace. You 441 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 2: can't really do that easily anyway over text. I'm sure 442 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 2: someone somewhere has done it, but it's not recommended for 443 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 2: me anyway. 444 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: Okay, Unfortunately, we need to do another thing that's not text, 445 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: which is ads. You can tell do great on the 446 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: ad pivots here, it's fine. I was I was watching 447 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: what's his name, the guy the right Way, ship head 448 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: guy who like had a thing with Samantha Bee for 449 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: a little bit. Glenn Beck, That's the one I was watching, 450 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: Glenn Beck, and I was like, oh no, this guy, 451 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: this guy's this guy's ad pivot was just racism. So 452 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, we could do it could happen. Here are 453 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: our second slogan better ad pivots than Glenn back, and 454 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: we are back, hopefully. 455 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: I don't know. 456 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: Maybe we'll get extremely unlucky and everything will be broken 457 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: and this will immediately cut to a third AD. But 458 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: assuming that it doesn't, I wanted to talk a bit 459 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: also about sort of the kinds of things that are 460 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: necessary to get people to believe that a union can work, 461 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: because that's you know, like or organization isn't just sort 462 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: of a purely like it isn't just sort of a 463 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: purely mechanical thing. It's also about morale, you know, like 464 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: as much as it's about social Relationshi's about sort of morale, 465 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: about people believing in the thing. So I wanted to ask, Yeah, 466 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: I guess talk a little bit about what that process 467 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: is sort of like and what can happen to it. 468 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's something an issue we ran into and 469 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: make a union fairly early on was keeping people motivated 470 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: for the union and getting people wanting to be involved, 471 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 2: because one of the most common things you'll hear when 472 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: trying to organize the union is people like, oh, I 473 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: can't afford to lose this job. I have a family 474 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: to feed, I have bills to pay. You'll see people 475 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 2: saying they don't want to risk their careers. If you're 476 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 2: in a more professional environment, you'll see people just not 477 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 2: wanting to take the risks that could jeopardize them. And 478 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 2: it's important when you're kind of trying to address those 479 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: concerns to meet them where they're at. You're not gonna 480 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: you can't make those concerns go away, because they're real. 481 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 2: When you're organizing a union, there is a risk you 482 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 2: could get fired and get punished for it. It happened 483 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 2: to me. It comes with the territory. But if you 484 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: do things safely and you do things right, it's a 485 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 2: much safer option than not doing any And that's the 486 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 2: main thing you kind of want to talk to people about, 487 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 2: is detailing their grievances and talking about how nothing's going 488 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: to change without you. And you can't butter up to 489 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: your bosses and expect them to suddenly turn around on you. 490 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 2: The most they'll do is play pretend for a little 491 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,959 Speaker 2: bit until things go right back to normal. And you 492 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: kind of want to talk to people about also why 493 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: it's more beneficial to them to just stick with the 494 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: union because their strength is in numbers, and that's something 495 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: that a lot of regular folk can kind of lose 496 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 2: is that they're not going to be an envelope. When 497 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 2: someone's viewing getting involved, a lot of the time they're thinking, oh, 498 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: if I get involved, I'm going to get fired. They're 499 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 2: not thinking about the strength envemnors. Sure you just you 500 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: yourself as the only one pushing for change in a workplace, Yeah, 501 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 2: there's a decent chance you'll get fired. But if you 502 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,719 Speaker 2: have a whole crew of ten people, all who are 503 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 2: essential running the operations, pushing for change, suddenly you're going 504 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 2: to see things shifting a much different way. And so 505 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 2: building that solidarity among people is important, and I think 506 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: is the I don't want to say the absolute best way, 507 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 2: because there isn't an absolute best way to handle those concerns, 508 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 2: but it's definitely a way that can be effective if 509 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 2: done right. 510 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess, okay, I guess I guess we 511 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: should go into how it sort of came apart. Yeah, 512 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: because unfortunately, you know, and this I think is the 513 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: thing that is depressing but true, which is that a 514 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: lot of union like statistic well, actually I don't have 515 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: the numbers. I'm not going to I'm not going to 516 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: actually say that, but a lot of union campaigns don't work, 517 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes it's because like something bad happens, 518 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: sometimes because it's just you know, stuff happens out of 519 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: your control. Sometimes it's I don't know, like a pandemic starts. 520 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, I was talked about what happened here and 521 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: how to sort of avoid that because it sucks. 522 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 2: So there's a lot of things that can be a 523 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: downfall in the union. In the case of McDonald's, our 524 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: main downfall. There was a lot of you know, little 525 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 2: things we did wrong that didn't help at all that 526 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 2: definitely just made matters worse in the end. But the 527 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: straw that broke the camel's back was not being careful 528 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 2: with who we trusted. And Dan, as I referred to 529 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 2: in the article, he was the one that caused the 530 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 2: penultimate destructure of it. The COVID contributed heavily, but I 531 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 2: feel like if it weren't for Dan, the union could 532 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 2: have had still a fighting chance in spite of COVID. Now, 533 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 2: if it weren't for COVID, I think the union also 534 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 2: could have stuck around. But the mixture of external factors 535 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 2: and internal did the downfall. But in terms of things 536 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 2: we could have actively prevented. Dan was the main thing 537 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 2: that we could have done approached way differently. We could 538 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 2: have approached handling new people in a much better light. 539 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 2: We should have had a centralized group being the ones 540 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 2: with all the communications everything, and let people prove their 541 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 2: trust to the union over time, doing taxes for it 542 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 2: and just by building relationships with people and fostering stuff 543 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 2: that's already there. Because Dan was two faced, we all 544 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 2: thought he was our friend, which is why we thought 545 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: we could trust him. But he was in it just 546 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 2: to try and get some benefits for him, which is 547 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 2: why he snitched. He thought maybe he would get, you know, 548 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 2: some type of promotion or something he didn't which side note, 549 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 2: it doesn't help you to snitch on your union. If 550 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 2: anyone out there is thinking of doing it, you're just 551 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: going to screw yourself and everyone else over and nobody 552 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 2: likes to snitch. Yeah, but we should have been a 553 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 2: lot more cautious with how we approached people and shouldn't 554 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 2: have just been doing things for the sake of doing them, 555 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 2: Like we shouldn't have been approaching people inside the workplace. 556 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 2: We shouldn't have been inviting and the one and everyone 557 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 2: to all our confidential group chats. We should have been 558 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 2: cautious of who we were around and what we were 559 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 2: saying around people and how we were going about it. 560 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 2: That's the core of it. I mean, yeah, it's recklessness. 561 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I think, like, you know, obviously 562 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: it is not good if the exist, like if the 563 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: existence of your union and a bunch of your stuff 564 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 1: gets leaked like this is not necessarily fatal, Like I've 565 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: been involved in campaigns where like that's happened and we 566 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: want anyways, but it could definitely be like you know, 567 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: especially like especially early on in the process and especially 568 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: like the more precarious stuff is uh, yeah, it's not great. 569 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: I get yeah, pretty bad pretty quickly, you know. I 570 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: guess the thing that I wanted to sort of ask 571 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: about was like, Okay, so historically up until the last 572 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: I mean I think was was was Burgerville the first 573 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: like modern fast food union. I think it might have been. 574 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 2: It was either Burgerville or Jimmy John. 575 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was one of the two. Up up until 576 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: like really the last like like I think, like post 577 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, fast food has been really 578 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: really difficult to organize and a lot of a lot 579 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: of unions either just didn't try or did these kind 580 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: of like weird PR stunt campaigns that were you know, 581 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: like Fight fifteen attached things where it's like, well, we're 582 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,919 Speaker 1: not actually really trying to get a union, we're trying 583 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: to like get PR stuff for Fight fifteen. But this 584 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: is I don't know, this is the thing I think 585 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: it's interesting about the idea, about about the idea. This 586 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: is the thing that's interesting about the industrial workers of 587 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 1: the world specifically, is that they've actually like gone in 588 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: and seriously attempted to do it, and they sort of 589 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: finally broke through it a couple of places, and you 590 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: know this this McDonald's campaign didn't work. But what was 591 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: kind of interesting to me about it is like, I 592 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: don't know, like how kind of I don't know if 593 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: normal is the right word of a campaign it was, 594 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: but it's it looks a lot like I don't know, 595 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: it looked like it looks a lot like campaigns that 596 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: I've been involved in that were like not in the 597 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: fast food industry. And now I guess I was wondering 598 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: a bit about like to what extent were the sort 599 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: of tactics shaped by like the very specific weird conditions 600 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: of fast food, and to what extent it was just 601 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: sort of like the stuff you'd use in any workplace. 602 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 2: So a lot of our base model was just stuff 603 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 2: you'd use in any workplace. Because at the time we're 604 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 2: doing this, I think the only fast food unions that 605 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 2: were around were like Jimmy John's and Burbertville. I think 606 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 2: those are the only two that had any publicity. This 607 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 2: was before all the major Starbucks campaigns. 608 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all pretty recent. 609 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so we didn't have much of a playbook 610 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 2: for how to approach things in a fast food environment. Specifically, 611 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 2: a lot of what we're actually emulated the model on 612 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 2: was factory environments and things like that, because there is 613 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 2: somewhat of a similarity of having worked in both between 614 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: fast food and factories. With factories and both fast food, 615 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 2: you have a kind of assembly line model, you know, 616 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 2: crank out or crank out work. Crank out work, get 617 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 2: things out at a rapid pace, and stick to your job. 618 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 2: Maybe do it a little bit of clean up now 619 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 2: and then, but you stick to what you're doing, and 620 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 2: you're kind of isolated from other stations a bit. You 621 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: have some overlap, but only in so far as your 622 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 2: job will allow, but you might be able to talk 623 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 2: to each other and you shared break areas. That kind 624 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,879 Speaker 2: of structure informed how we approached it. By us, what 625 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 2: we tried to do was talk to people we didn't 626 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,959 Speaker 2: have external contacts with in areas that were away from cameras, 627 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 2: in areas that were away from other people who might 628 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 2: be able to hear. But there is better ways of 629 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 2: doing it, and I think other campaigns benefited out there, 630 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 2: likely benefited from having more seasoned organizers at the core 631 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 2: of it, because that's also, at least for me and 632 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 2: my experience with it. Something that didn't help us was 633 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 2: having someone who with no real experience doing something at 634 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,359 Speaker 2: the forefront of that. I'm not to say that someone 635 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 2: of no experience can't do amazing things. Countless examples of 636 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 2: unions that were ran by people with no experience at 637 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 2: all who's just jumped right into it and did amazing jobs. 638 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 2: But it's important to get a diversity of people with 639 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 2: different walks of life at the core of it, people 640 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: with different perspectives. Just so many different people involved at 641 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 2: the core as a kind of central organizing committee can 642 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 2: do you wonders with a union because We had just 643 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 2: a few young left leaning people, a few young left 644 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 2: leaning white people, most of which were male presenting. I 645 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 2: wasn't out as trans there, so I was presenting as masculine. 646 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 2: The other people I was with, they were all CIS men, 647 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 2: with one exception, two exceptions. Sorry, my memory is a 648 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 2: little on the fritz. But we needed more people with 649 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 2: different perspectives in there. We needed more, and there was 650 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 2: plenty to be found in the workplace, but we just 651 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 2: we neglected to include them in the core organizing the committee. 652 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 2: And I think that's something that could really benefit unions 653 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 2: and probably is a major strength of a lot of 654 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 2: the successful ones is having a diverse, main primary group 655 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 2: of central organizers. I don't want to say central organizers, 656 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 2: more like core organizers, because the solidarity union model isn't 657 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 2: like hierarchical, but this is a central group of people 658 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 2: involved that seek to do the main light work. 659 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I mean this has been I 660 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: think like one of the things that made the like 661 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: the Starbucks campaign's work was like they well with was 662 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: STARBARCKSNA specifically, it was a lot of like find the 663 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: queerest person in the world place to start talking to them, 664 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: but having the core group of people working on things. 665 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: Being as diverse as possible is good both in like 666 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: an immediate practical sense and it is sort of like 667 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: long term to chief sense, and the faster that happens 668 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: the better. Yeah, okay, do you have anything else that 669 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: you from this that you think people should know about? 670 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 2: I would say, if you can get external help from 671 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 2: a union if you've never done it before, and even 672 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 2: if you have, having someone to balance ideas off of 673 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 2: can wonders. There's a lot of fun with the IWW 674 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,799 Speaker 2: that are more than willing to offer helping hand to 675 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 2: people trying to get started on a union campaign. All 676 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 2: you got to do is reach out and ask, and 677 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 2: I'm sure there will be someone in your local who's 678 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 2: willing to help. But even if there's not, you can 679 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 2: probably get someone to help you more remotely too, And 680 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 2: even just a little bit of guidance can go a 681 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 2: long way. 682 00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, union, good McDonald's bad eye. Be careful while you're organizing, 683 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 1: and yeah, be strategic inspired about it. Well, okay, do 684 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: you want people to find you first? And if so where? 685 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 3: Uh? 686 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? I can be found over unfortunately for now on 687 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 2: Twitter at my regazine. Also on Mastdon much more preferably, 688 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 2: And those are the main places I'm at. If you 689 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,839 Speaker 2: want to reach me to, my email is found on 690 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 2: my Twitter and masked it on my relating at gmail 691 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 2: dot com. It's the best way to get hold of me. 692 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:38,439 Speaker 3: Yeah. 693 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,800 Speaker 1: Well, we'll put a link to the strange meta article 694 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: in the in the description so you can read that 695 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: to you because it's great. Yeah, Mirat, thank you so 696 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: much for joining But I was gonna say us, but 697 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: I guess, thank you so much for joining me. Uh, yeah, 698 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: it was. It was great talking to you is fuck 699 00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,760 Speaker 1: McDonald's play sucks ass. 700 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having Yeah, it was really 701 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 2: been a huge fan of this podcast for a while, 702 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 2: so I was like, when I first heard about potentially 703 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 2: being on here, I was stoked. And also, yeah, fuck McDonald's. 704 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:18,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, yeah, this has been the podcast that 705 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: you're listening to. You can find us that Happened here 706 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 1: pod on Twitter and Instagram. You can find us the 707 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 1: rest of the stuff that people do at cools on media. 708 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:28,879 Speaker 2: I guess, I guess. 709 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 1: I actually I have not plugged the do show that's 710 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 1: been happening. There'll be a couple of episodes out by 711 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 1: the time we do this. But cools On has done 712 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,400 Speaker 1: a show with Jake Canahan called Sad Oligarchs. That's about 713 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: the Russian oligarchs who've been mysteriously dying over the past, 714 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,640 Speaker 1: like as the start of the Ukraine. Yeah, probably only 715 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:54,439 Speaker 1: getting more relevant as whatever fucking bullshit is happening there 716 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: right now plays out. I don't know, but by the 717 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 1: time this goes up, you'll probably have a better idea 718 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 1: of what happened or didn't happen. But yeah, go listen 719 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, and go start a union in your 720 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,840 Speaker 1: workplace or alternately, light light light something on fire legally 721 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:14,399 Speaker 1: not the place something campfires explorers, if we can make those, 722 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 1: we have the technology. 723 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 2: Union sores. 724 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:21,800 Speaker 1: Best kind. 725 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 3: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 726 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 727 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 3: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the 728 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 729 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 3: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated 730 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,280 Speaker 3: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.