1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840
Speaker 1: It's sponsorship time. But you know what, it's really great

2
00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,040
Speaker 1: when you get a sponsor that you already use. And

3
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: guess what. Quint's is something that in the Todd household

4
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:10,920
Speaker 1: we already go to. Why do we go to Quint's

5
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 1: Because it's a place you go where you can get

6
00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,680
Speaker 1: some really nice clothes without the really expensive prices. And

7
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 1: one of the things I've been going through is I've

8
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,120
Speaker 1: transitioned from being mister cot and ty guy to wanting

9
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,360
Speaker 1: a little more casual but to look nice doing it.

10
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,880
Speaker 1: Is I've become mister quarter zip guy. Well guess what.

11
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: Guess he's got amazing amounts of quarter zips. It is Quints.

12
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,000
Speaker 1: I have gotten quite a few already from there. The

13
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 1: stuff's really nice. They have Mongolian cashmere sweaters for fifty dollars.

14
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: I just know, hey, cashmere, that's pretty good. You don't

15
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 1: normally get that for fifty bucks or less. Italian wool

16
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,279
Speaker 1: coats that look and feel like designer the stuff. I'll

17
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,160
Speaker 1: be honest, right, you look at it online, you think, okay,

18
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 1: is this really as nice as it looks? Well, when

19
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 1: I got it, I was like, oh, this is real quality.

20
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm going to end up making sure I

21
00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 1: take it to my dry cleaner so I don't screw

22
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 1: it up when I clean it. But I've been quite impressed.

23
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 1: In Hey, it's holiday season. It is impossible to shop

24
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 1: for us middle aged men. I know this well. Tell

25
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,480
Speaker 1: your kids, tell your spouses, tell your partners. Try quints.

26
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 1: Or if you're trying to figure out what to get

27
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,839
Speaker 1: your adult child, what to get your mom or dad,

28
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 1: I'm telling you you're going to find something that is

29
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: going to be comfortable for them on quints. So get

30
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,600
Speaker 1: your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with quints.

31
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,760
Speaker 1: Don't wait. Go to quins dot com slash chuck for

32
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 1: free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty

33
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: five day returns now available in Canada as well. That's

34
00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 1: qui nce dot com, slash chuck, free shipping and three

35
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,320
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five day returns quints dot com slash chuck.

36
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:54,040
Speaker 1: Use that code so joining me today. Er of something

37
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 1: called MAMA. That's the acronym. It is Mother's Against Media Addiction.

38
00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 1: The founder is Julia excuse me, Julie Shelfe. She's a

39
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 1: former New York Times reporter has become a bit of

40
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:15,240
Speaker 1: I think a media ecologist of sorts. And look, as

41
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 1: many of you know, many of my listeners here know

42
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 1: that trying to figure out how we rebuild trust in

43
00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,239
Speaker 1: the information ecosystem, how can we clean up the information ecosystem?

44
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,200
Speaker 1: And one of the more remarkable things in this polarized

45
00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,680
Speaker 1: environment is that what's been interesting is that the only

46
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,160
Speaker 1: time we can find areas of agreement is when it

47
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,000
Speaker 1: is about protecting our kids online social media. And so

48
00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,640
Speaker 1: as we try to figure out how big tech is

49
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 1: going to build AI and will they do it safely

50
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,080
Speaker 1: or not? Given the experience with social media, I figured

51
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,000
Speaker 1: this would be a really good conversation because I want

52
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 1: to learn more about mama. So, Julie, welcome to the podcast.

53
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,440
Speaker 2: Hi Chuck, thank you so much for having me. It's

54
00:02:58,440 --> 00:02:59,320
Speaker 2: a pleasure to be here.

55
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 1: Let's start with you know this, you know, look, I'm

56
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 1: in I just got out of an hour long meeting

57
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,639
Speaker 1: in a nonprofit group I'm involved with called Trust in Media,

58
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 1: and where it's just constantly like, what can we do

59
00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,639
Speaker 1: to repair and rebuild trust in all sorts of institutions? Right,

60
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 1: sort of the information ecosystem that was sort of at

61
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 1: the at the heart of the What's interesting about this

62
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 1: organization that I'm working with is that it includes folks

63
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,360
Speaker 1: in the national security space and folks in the business

64
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 1: space and in health and in sports, as well as

65
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 1: news and politics. And you're tackling this from a from

66
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: a youth space, and as we transition from fearing social

67
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 1: media to fearing AI. This is I think a pretty

68
00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:53,320
Speaker 1: relevant conversation. So I want to start with what motivated

69
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 1: you to do this? I think it's obvious in some cases,

70
00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:02,360
Speaker 1: but are you pressed without quickly we actually have come

71
00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 1: together on the issue of at least our phones and schools.

72
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so there were like three questions.

73
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,400
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. Maybe that's why it's a podcast.

74
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna work backwards. So so I was

75
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 2: moved to start Mama for a couple reasons.

76
00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,480
Speaker 1: One is that when did you start it?

77
00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,679
Speaker 2: By the way, so I incorporated her in twenty twenty three.

78
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 2: We only announced ourselves publicly early last year, so we're

79
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,040
Speaker 2: not even two years old yet. But a few years

80
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,680
Speaker 2: before that, I gave a TED talk because I was

81
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,520
Speaker 2: so deeply concerned about erosion of trust and information and

82
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,080
Speaker 2: what was happening in our media environments, and having spent

83
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 2: my career in professional newsrooms, I was at the New

84
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,080
Speaker 2: York Times and before that, I was at Newsweek. I

85
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 2: sort of watched the rise of digital media and how

86
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,479
Speaker 2: the legacy news organizations responded to it. And what was

87
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 2: very clear to me, what was very unfortunate is that

88
00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 2: even though journalists are really good at understanding and vetting

89
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,360
Speaker 2: information quality, they weren't trained in media literacy, and they

90
00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 2: didn't understand how what they publish and how what they

91
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,920
Speaker 2: communicated communicated. But they were communicating online and on television

92
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,520
Speaker 2: was helping shape the information environment. And so you know,

93
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 2: the question about regaining trust is a big one, and

94
00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,320
Speaker 2: I hope we can talk about it more later in

95
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,600
Speaker 2: the show. But specifically for Mama, I was reporting a

96
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 2: lot on youth mental health and suicide. And it was

97
00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,520
Speaker 2: about a decade ago that we saw a terrible increase

98
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,440
Speaker 2: in suicide rates among American adolescents, and I reported on

99
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,159
Speaker 2: that and it was manifestly obvious that social media was

100
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 2: at the heart of that problem. And then, as sad

101
00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 2: as that story was, we saw suicide rates go up

102
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 2: not just in teens, but in tweens, which your children

103
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,719
Speaker 2: as young as nine to ten. Now I'm a mom.

104
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 2: I have three sons, and reporting that story really shook

105
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 2: me to my core. When you have nine year olds,

106
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 2: ten year old children who want to die, something is

107
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,160
Speaker 2: profoundly messed up. Because I run mama. I won't use

108
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 2: the crude language that's really in my head about that

109
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,320
Speaker 2: how messed up that is. But I realized something had

110
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,919
Speaker 2: to be done. And what has to be done is

111
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,160
Speaker 2: that this information environment has to be brought under control

112
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,479
Speaker 2: so that it's safe for children.

113
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 1: And that's you know, I look at this movement right

114
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 1: of what we've seen about trying to at least take

115
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: bones out of classrooms, and you know, when I see

116
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 1: how hard it is to get the left and the

117
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,159
Speaker 1: right to agree on anything, and it is the one thing,

118
00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,600
Speaker 1: whether it's a super liberal state legislature, super conservative state legislature,

119
00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,400
Speaker 1: this stuff has made it through. This is the one

120
00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,840
Speaker 1: place it is made it through. I fear we're too

121
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 1: late on social media, but maybe this gets us there

122
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:06,719
Speaker 1: on AI.

123
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,040
Speaker 2: So I don't think we're too late on social media

124
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:16,040
Speaker 2: because every day a child is growing up and being

125
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 2: exposed to things through these platforms, and every day that

126
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 2: we allow a handful of companies to share whatever they

127
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 2: want with whoever they want, under any circumstances, with no regulation.

128
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,960
Speaker 2: Is a day that we are leaving our children vulnerable

129
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,360
Speaker 2: to terrible harms. When I was reporting my stories, we

130
00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 2: didn't have data about the amount of suicide and self

131
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 2: harm content. Meta released data on it just last year,

132
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 2: and according to Meta's own report, there were forty eight

133
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 2: million separate pieces of suicide and self harm content on

134
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,400
Speaker 2: their platforms in the previous year. And that's just the

135
00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,800
Speaker 2: pieces that they'll acknowledge. There's probably a lot more than that. So,

136
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,720
Speaker 2: you know, as long as we've had mass media, beginning

137
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,800
Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties with radio, our government has regulated it.

138
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 2: It has said there need to be limits, there need

139
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 2: to be standards. It's not censoring free speech. It's just

140
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:18,160
Speaker 2: recognizing that not all content is appropriate in all places

141
00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 2: for all audiences. I don't think we want a world.

142
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 2: You know, if we allowed every single course vulgar X

143
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 2: rated activity on our regular television channels and on the radio,

144
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,560
Speaker 2: you know what kind of world would we have. So

145
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:34,040
Speaker 2: I'm not.

146
00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,560
Speaker 1: Exacting the way that world does exist. It's the Internet.

147
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we've let this happen on the Internet, and

148
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,320
Speaker 1: nobody wanted this, right, Like, we know we don't like this,

149
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,040
Speaker 1: but we can't agree on how to stop this.

150
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 2: Well, I think there is actually pretty wide consensus on

151
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 2: how to stop it. I think we also are just

152
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,280
Speaker 2: facing an industry that has unlimited amounts of money and

153
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,559
Speaker 2: they are spending on godly amounts of money on lobbying.

154
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 2: Our friends at an organization called Issue one have been

155
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,120
Speaker 2: tracking this and they have found that the tech big

156
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 2: tech industry has one lobbyist for every two lawmakers in Washington,

157
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 2: and Meta alone has one lobbyist for every seven lawmakers.

158
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,680
Speaker 2: So you know what's happening is, even though there's wide

159
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 2: agreement among most lawmakers and most parents and most citizens,

160
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,400
Speaker 2: you have big tech spending on godly and holy amounts

161
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 2: of money and getting just a few people who are

162
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,280
Speaker 2: really messing up legislation. I mean, one example is the

163
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 2: Kids Online Safety Act, which passed last year in the

164
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 2: Senate by a vote of ninety one to three, which like,

165
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,960
Speaker 2: when does that happen? And over in the House, Speaker

166
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 2: Johnson refused to bring it for a vote. Steve Scalise

167
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,760
Speaker 2: says it wasn't good legislation. And nobody could understand why.

168
00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,320
Speaker 2: And then it was announced that Meta is building a

169
00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 2: twenty eight billion dollar AI data processing plant in the

170
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 2: state which you know, I don't know. Does that have

171
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 2: something to.

172
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 1: Do with it? Maybe in the state of I assume

173
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,480
Speaker 1: you mean state of Louisiana.

174
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,160
Speaker 2: The State of Louisiana.

175
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, Johnson and Scalise, Yeah.

176
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:14,640
Speaker 2: No.

177
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,200
Speaker 1: And we're seeing the same thing with AI. I mean,

178
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 1: take the take the issue of this moratorium from states

179
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,160
Speaker 1: being able to regulate AI that I do think is

180
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:32,040
Speaker 1: become I think it's now too toxic to support. I

181
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,520
Speaker 1: think we'll find out.

182
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 2: Right, I am, well, I hope you're right.

183
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're going to find out. And maybe

184
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 1: unfortunately this gets can't tell you how many pieces of

185
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 1: really harmful legislation gets snuck in in the month of December.

186
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,680
Speaker 1: It's historically because everybody's in holiday mode. It'll just can

187
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 1: can sometimes get So I think we are in the

188
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,840
Speaker 1: month of December when we're taping this and when this

189
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,199
Speaker 1: is when people are listening to this, So there's always

190
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,200
Speaker 1: a chance this is something that get snuck in. But

191
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,800
Speaker 1: it does seem as if there's enough opposition. But I

192
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:06,840
Speaker 1: know you're working on this.

193
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,480
Speaker 2: I mean, our members have been sending thousands of letters.

194
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,439
Speaker 2: And for those of your listeners who aren't familiar with this,

195
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,000
Speaker 2: the tech industry is trying to get this sweetheart deal

196
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 2: passed where they would pass a federal law saying there

197
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 2: can be no state regulation of AI and this is

198
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 2: such a profound violation of states' rights and their fundamental

199
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,400
Speaker 2: ability to keep their citizens safe that we had forty

200
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 2: four I think attorneys general send a letter to the

201
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 2: Senate when this was being considered earlier this year in

202
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,720
Speaker 2: the Big Beautiful Bill, saying this is outrageous. You can't

203
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 2: do this. Hundreds of lawmakers of both parties, so you

204
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: can't do this, And it came out of the Big

205
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,320
Speaker 2: Beautiful Bill. Now they're trying to sneak it back into

206
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,079
Speaker 2: the Defense Reauthorization Act. And we're also hearing there's the

207
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 2: possibility of an executive order. So you know, the way

208
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 2: the draft was worded, it's so vague. It would not

209
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,520
Speaker 2: only for it states from regulating AI, prohibit them from

210
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,200
Speaker 2: regulating social media. So nobody wants this, and it would

211
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 2: just be a real boon to a handful of billionaires

212
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 2: who own these companies.

213
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,320
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you brought up the executive order, because

214
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,679
Speaker 1: it does seem as if that was that was going

215
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 1: to be the tech community's last resort, and that does

216
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,959
Speaker 1: look like that's going to happen, doesn't it.

217
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 2: That's right, you know, I hope it doesn't. I do

218
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,120
Speaker 2: think even if it does happen, it's so problematic that

219
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 2: it's unlikely to be enforced right away.

220
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,199
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't think it's by the way,

221
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,360
Speaker 1: I don't think it's enforceable, and I think there'll be

222
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,319
Speaker 1: some states that basically like, let's go, we're going to

223
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 1: we're going to do some regulate Let go ahead and

224
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,320
Speaker 1: try to stop us.

225
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, how like, in what other industry

226
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,640
Speaker 2: do we say, Okay, you can just do whatever you want.

227
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 2: You know, we regulate our food to make sure it's safe.

228
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 2: We regulate our vehicles to make sure they're safe. We

229
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,760
Speaker 2: don't want to live in a world where companies are

230
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 2: not required to test cars and make sure the breaks

231
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,440
Speaker 2: work before you get them.

232
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,079
Speaker 1: Well, this gets a something that I think is one

233
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 1: of those do you know. One of the ways the

234
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,040
Speaker 1: advocates of low regulation right now in AI, one of

235
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,240
Speaker 1: the arguments they make is, hey, we did this with

236
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 1: the Internet. We had very little regulation, and my retort

237
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 1: always is, and how did that go? Right? Like, we

238
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,400
Speaker 1: decided to have a hands off approach on social media

239
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,559
Speaker 1: and that turned out to be a colossal mistake. Now

240
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,600
Speaker 1: I happen to believe social media. I mean, here's the problem.

241
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,600
Speaker 1: I think this has been a disaster. I think it

242
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,679
Speaker 1: something that destroys the information ecosystem, that destroys trust, that

243
00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,679
Speaker 1: breaks up families. This is not a successful business, and

244
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 1: yet we want to create the same regulatory environment to

245
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: allow AI to thrive. And we think that's going to

246
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 1: be good because of the experience with social media. And

247
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,599
Speaker 1: I do think this is why there's more public and

248
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,199
Speaker 1: there's more bipartisan pushback on this because I think if

249
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,320
Speaker 1: you frame the question of do you want the tech

250
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,520
Speaker 1: companies to have this to use this same lack of

251
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,400
Speaker 1: rules of the game to build AI as they build

252
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 1: social media? Do you trust the same people that build

253
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,320
Speaker 1: social media to build AI? I think the answer is no.

254
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,960
Speaker 2: Well, Chuck, it's not a successful business for families, for society,

255
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,520
Speaker 2: for democracy, for children, but it is for shareholders and

256
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,040
Speaker 2: for a handful of people who own these companies. And

257
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 2: what we're seeing, is this really unprecedented alliance between a

258
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 2: few people at the highest levels of government and the

259
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,880
Speaker 2: folks who own these companies. Now, everybody who has children says,

260
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 2: that's not what's most important. You know, I have no

261
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 2: problem with people making money and building a successful company,

262
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 2: but you should not be able to do it on

263
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,720
Speaker 2: the backs of children. So you know, that is why

264
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 2: Mama is working. We started, you know, hoping that we

265
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 2: could have six chapters by the end of the first year.

266
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 2: We were sort of inspired by mothers against drunk driving

267
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,520
Speaker 2: and the way they had chapters around the country. Instead,

268
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 2: we're up to nearly forty chapters in twenty two states.

269
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 2: Our members are working in their homes and their communities,

270
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:14,560
Speaker 2: in their schools, and with policymakers to advance changes, just

271
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,440
Speaker 2: like we had to make big changes once we learned

272
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,760
Speaker 2: about the harms of big tobacco, saying Okay, it shouldn't

273
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 2: be normative that we give this to young children. It

274
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 2: shouldn't be okay that we load it full of chemicals

275
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 2: that can cause cancer. And we have to ensure that

276
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,880
Speaker 2: we're both using it in a safe way and that

277
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,760
Speaker 2: the manufacturers of these products are held to basic safety standards.

278
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: Glad you brought up tobacco. I was actually that was

279
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 1: the next way I was going to ask, which is

280
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 1: what lessons are there to take away from the essentially

281
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 1: what was a thirty year fight, but it was the

282
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 1: public one, right, tobacco. You know, it's not gone, but

283
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 1: it is. It is now where it should be available

284
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,440
Speaker 1: to those who want it, for adults and adults only.

285
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 2: It's a great example. And I think this fight is

286
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 2: a lot like big tobacco in some ways, and there

287
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 2: are a few differences. And what's similar is that big

288
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,400
Speaker 2: tech and social media products and technology in general is

289
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,040
Speaker 2: so embedded in our society that in order to shift

290
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 2: how we use it, to shift how we regulate it,

291
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 2: it's going to take change at multiple levels. So, just

292
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 2: like with big tobacco, we need culture change. We need

293
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 2: a lot of education so that people think about it differently.

294
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 2: We had to go back to Hollywood, you know, whereas

295
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,160
Speaker 2: tobacco companies had paid them to write scripts where the

296
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,880
Speaker 2: sexy leading men and women were smokers. We had to

297
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 2: convince them to make sure that the sexy men and

298
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 2: women leading you know, stars were not smoking. We had

299
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,240
Speaker 2: to get rid of Joe camel, So there had to

300
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 2: be a lot of public education. And then there were

301
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 2: also lawsuits, and we're seeing with organizations like the Social

302
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 2: Media Victims Law Center and other lawmakers where they are

303
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,439
Speaker 2: suing these companies because the companies are claiming it's not

304
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 2: their fault that children are harmed. But now the courts

305
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,680
Speaker 2: are hearing cases where, for example, you know, and apologies

306
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 2: to talk about a difficult subject in listeners, just like

307
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 2: a kind of a trigger warning. But you know, I've

308
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,400
Speaker 2: met families whose children were sent affirmatively sent by Instagram

309
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,879
Speaker 2: of videos of someone hanging themselves and then their child replicated.

310
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 2: We had a little girl in Pennsylvania who tried the

311
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,159
Speaker 2: choking challenge after the platform sent it to her, and

312
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,240
Speaker 2: so courts are now hearing that, and that's just like

313
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 2: what happened with Big Tomay.

314
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 1: Well, this is this whole thing was sexual section two thirty.

315
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 1: You know, I've had this argument, I'm not a lawyer.

316
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 1: I played one on I've played one on television. Was

317
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,720
Speaker 1: how I joked, And basically every reporter over time sort

318
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: of starts to think like a lawyer at times, right,

319
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:55,120
Speaker 1: And I don't understand how Section two thirty even applies

320
00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:00,800
Speaker 1: that once a tech company creates an algorithm, now a publisher.

321
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 1: If they choose not to be a publisher, then they

322
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 1: don't have any liability. But the minute they created an algorithm,

323
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,640
Speaker 1: as you point out they sent the video, they are

324
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,399
Speaker 1: It's no different than our old newspaper editors deciding what

325
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 1: goes what goes on the above the fold that people

326
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,360
Speaker 1: can see in the news box where you you still

327
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 1: when we're you still? Sorry for those of that don't

328
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 1: remember this, we need to go and actually put a

329
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: quarter in and get your newspaper out of a box.

330
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 1: And when quote unquote below the fall, it's a choice,

331
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 1: it's an algorithm, is a choice that the tech company makes.

332
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 1: I don't see how Section two thirty applies at all.

333
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,919
Speaker 2: Well, I think instead of calling at social media, we

334
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 2: should be calling at mass media publishing, because that's what

335
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,640
Speaker 2: it is. And so when you hear the tech lobby saying, well,

336
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,720
Speaker 2: this is you know, First Amendment. The First Amendment guarantees

337
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 2: us the right to free speech. It doesn't guarantee you

338
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 2: the right to publish speech. It doesn't guarantee you the

339
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 2: right to broadcast speech, and it doesn't guarantee you the

340
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 2: right to mak mediated speech. So for the last century

341
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 2: we've had all kinds of laws and restrictions and accountability

342
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 2: for publishers, for broadcasters, and we allow social media to

343
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 2: come in and turn anybody and everybody into a publisher

344
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 2: without any accountability. So, you know, in terms of your

345
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,880
Speaker 2: opening question about how do we get the information ecosystem

346
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 2: back on track, I think that it's pretty simple. We

347
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 2: have to pass some regulation that holds people accountable for

348
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 2: what they publish. And again, advertisers supported speech is very

349
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 2: different than First Amendment speech, and social media is supported

350
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 2: by advertising, so that's another legal aspect of it that

351
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 2: I think needs to be looked at.

352
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

353
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

354
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

355
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,880
Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother, single mother, now widow, myself

356
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figureure out how am I going to

357
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 1: pay for college and lo and behold, my dad had

358
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

359
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: but it was important at the time, and it's why

360
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

361
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: know how important that would be. In that moment. Well,

362
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 1: guess what. That's why I am here to tell you

363
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: about Etho's life. They can provide you with peace of

364
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: mind knowing your family is protected even if the worst

365
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: comes to pass. Ethos is an online platform that makes

366
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: getting life insurance fast and easy, all designed to protect

367
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: your family's future in minutes, not months. There's no complicated process,

368
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 1: and it's one hundred percent online. There's no medical exam

369
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 1: require you just answer a few health questions online. You

370
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: can get a quote in as little as ten minutes,

371
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,639
Speaker 1: and you can get same day coverage without ever leaving

372
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,639
Speaker 1: your home. You can get up to three million dollars

373
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: in coverage, and some policies start as low as two

374
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 1: dollars a day that would be billed monthly. As of

375
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: March twenty twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the numbnumber

376
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect

377
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 1: your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get your free

378
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: quoted ethos dot com slash chuck. So again, that's Ethos

379
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck. Application times may vary and the

380
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: rates themselves may vary as well, but trust me, life

381
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 1: insurance is something you should really think about, especially if

382
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 1: you've got a growing family. Oh, it used to drive

383
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: me crazy during the during sort of when we were

384
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: more talking about what when Facebook was trying to deny

385
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: any culpability during the during the Russian influence operation, and

386
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,479
Speaker 1: it was sort of like or you know, putting up

387
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: advertisements that were totally missing misleading. When I was at

388
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 1: Meet the Press, if we aired an ad that we

389
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: knew was misleading, we as the broadcaster, shared liability with

390
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: the advertiser. In fact, in some ways we were we'd

391
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 1: be held more liable than the appier themselves. That is

392
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: not how it works on these platforms. Meta is you know,

393
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: if somebody advertises on an in an Instagram with a

394
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: with a misleading ad, you don't get to sue Meta

395
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: for that. You only get to sue I guess the

396
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: company itself if you want to do it. So there's

397
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,159
Speaker 1: that has to change. And I and it's one of

398
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: those where I don't understand. I don't understand. As you said,

399
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: the laws that are already on the book should already

400
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,719
Speaker 1: be applied like this idea, they have to be you know,

401
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 1: they carved out this separate and I think that's the

402
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: mistake that was made.

403
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 2: I think that was a mistake that's made. I think

404
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 2: that you know, when some of these technologies were introduced,

405
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: there were folks in Congress who didn't quite understand it.

406
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: You know. As you know, we haven't passed a single

407
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: regulation federal regulation on social media since nineteen ninety eight,

408
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 2: which is before social.

409
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: Media was there was no social media.

410
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 2: So you know, we are definitely behind and making sure

411
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 2: these products are safe, and we're seeing other countries take

412
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 2: the lead in protecting childhood, right, yep, So.

413
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the core goal of your group, right

414
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 1: it's media addiction. And you know, I started out by

415
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: sort of trying to be hopeful and noting that, hey, look,

416
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: the one place where politicians seem to find agreement is

417
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: on this issue, like how do we protect our children?

418
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: And I've been heartened by all these laws passed in

419
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: the States on self abandoned schools. But do you know

420
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: what a lot of schools proactively do. I proactively give

421
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: an iPad to every student that comes in the classroom.

422
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: In fact, there is a movement in my neighborhood. It's

423
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: a very small movement, but that's how these movements start,

424
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: right neighbor to neighbor going, Hey, tell Arlington schools stop

425
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: giving you know, teach out of books not iPads.

426
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: It's not just in your district, Chuck. We're seeing this nationwide,

427
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: you know. MAMA, Chapter leaders across the country have been

428
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: among the most vocal in their community to say to teachers,

429
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: say to schools, this is not what we want. Teachers

430
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 2: and schools have sort of too quickly, I think, bought

431
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 2: into this idea that if it's technological, it must be better.

432
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: And we are now seeing the lowest reading in math

433
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: scores in our lowest performing children than we've seen since

434
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: the United States started measuring that back in the seventies.

435
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: So there's just been a terrible decline in reading in

436
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 2: math performance that matches up exactly to the introduction of

437
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: tablets and laptops into classrooms. At MAMA, we're not anti tech.

438
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: We think tech can be fun and tech can be helpful.

439
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: We just don't think it should replace real life experiences

440
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: and interaction. And there's actually centuries of evidence that show

441
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 2: embodied learning experiences are critical for memory consolidation in the mind.

442
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: That's how children learn by doing so. We know that

443
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: physically holding a book is affecting the mind in a

444
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 2: much different way than looking at it on a screen.

445
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: So you I have a three part mission at Mama's

446
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: Parent Education. It's getting phones out of school so children

447
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: can learn, and it's demanding safeguards that our lawmakers act

448
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 2: to ensure these products if they're going to be out there,

449
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 2: that they're safer kids.

450
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: You know. So, do you think there's a you know,

451
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: you think there's a an age where you don't even

452
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: you know, you say, okay, look because now you have

453
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: these like smart boards instead of chalkboards right where you're

454
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,239
Speaker 1: able to do and that to me makes sense. You

455
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: want to have these smart boards. And you know, the

456
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: upside about having a textbook online is that it's always

457
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: up to date, it's always current, right, it's never out

458
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: of it's never now of date. You can quickly without

459
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: having to buy new textbooks. So there are reasons school

460
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: districts want to save money, right, which is to have

461
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: some of this stuff available. What's the Is there a

462
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: regulatory line we can create in legislation that says, okay,

463
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: you know, we're not introducing any tech into classrooms until

464
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: sixth grade? Is that? Is there enough studies to support

465
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: a hard and fast line like that.

466
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: Well, so, there's a lot of studies that support the

467
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: delaying of technology and media for children as long as possible.

468
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: The American Academy of Pediatric has for many, many years

469
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: recommended the most minimal amount of screens for your infant

470
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 2: and toddler as possible. If your child's under two, they

471
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: should not be exposed to a screen. If every once

472
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: in a while you let your toddler talk to their

473
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 2: grandparents on FaceTime or Skype, I don't think it's such

474
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: a big deal, but nobody should be parking their infant

475
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: in front of a screen for entertainment because we know

476
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 2: it affects their brain development. And there is a researcher

477
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: who's been taking scans of preschoolers and finding that the

478
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: ones who had screens have actual less white matter in

479
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: their brains. In terms of whether we could make a rule,

480
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: you know, we live in a country where education is

481
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 2: decided state by state, and so every state does it differently.

482
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: My recommendation, again would be to delay these things as

483
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: long as possible. Now, there's a lot of parents out

484
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 2: there saying we have to have our kids ready to

485
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: compete in a technological world. And I agree with that.

486
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: But the question I always ask is, you know, if

487
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: you want your child to be a safe driver, for example,

488
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: And we all agree that we want our children, once

489
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 2: they learn to drive, to be safe on the roads.

490
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: But none of us think they should start learning to

491
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: drive at age seven, or age eight or age nine,

492
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: because their brains and their bodies are not ready for that.

493
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: And so for children, what we think is important is

494
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: that the foundational skills they need to be competent learners

495
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: are there before we introduce technology. And then we introduce

496
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: technology in a limited way so that they can learn

497
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: the skills they need, but that it doesn't overtake all

498
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 2: of their other learning.

499
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I had a I was at

500
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: the Texas Tribune Festival a couple of weeks ago and

501
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: saw a conversation with the new president of SMU, who

502
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: used to be the president of ut Austin, and they

503
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: were talking about, you know, over the last ten years,

504
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: there had been this shift away from kids majoring in

505
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: sort of the liberal arts right, majoring in English. In fact,

506
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: you have universities dropping that as a major right that

507
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: there's more specificity that students were leaning towards and his thesis,

508
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: his theory and what he was going to bet on

509
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: is that in the next ten years that we were

510
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: going to see a turn back to the liberal arts.

511
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: And in fact, he thinks his job's going to be

512
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: how to help students when they come to college. That college,

513
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: that college may turn into how to learn because we're

514
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: in some ways, because our kids are being raised on screens.

515
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: They know how, they know, they know where to find information,

516
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: they don't know how to how to how to create

517
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: the information right, they don't know how to confine the

518
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: information if if the power goes out type of issue,

519
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: and that that's in some ways that may be a

520
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: role that undergraduate universities are going to be playing again.

521
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: So that was an interesting thesis he had. What do

522
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: you make of that?

523
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: I mean, that is a very interesting thesis and it's

524
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: something I think about all the time. You know, I worry,

525
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: for example, when you see doctors using their phones to

526
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: look up everything. You know, I want my surgeon if

527
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: I'm going in for brain surgery, I want my surgeon

528
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: to know how to do the surgery even if the

529
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: power goes out. You know, you want you want our

530
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: experts to have the skills and the training that they need.

531
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's an interesting hypothesis. I think that a

532
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: lot of learning, though, happens in early childhood, and there

533
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: are certain foundational building blocks. We know, if by a

534
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: certain age you're not reading at a certain level, it's

535
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: very unlikely that you'll get there in your twenties. Right.

536
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: That is why in this country we long ago established

537
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: had start in zero to three, because there was so

538
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: much evidence that what happens during early childhood really affects

539
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: your lifelong success in learning and even other things like

540
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: your economic you know, status, your your job, you know, availability,

541
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: all those kinds of things. So you know, we we're

542
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: pushing to make sure. You know, Look, I'm an American.

543
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: I want us to win the AI race, but we

544
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: need to make sure that these technologies are developed in

545
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: ways that are all so safe and responsible. And I

546
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: have every confidence that our technology leaders can do both

547
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: of those things.

548
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: Right.

549
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 2: There's no reason we need to just say, Okay, let's

550
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: have no legislation and let's just let them do whatever

551
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: they want. You know, we've already seen I don't know

552
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: if you caught this in the news, but there was

553
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: a Teddy Bear with AI in it that just had

554
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: to be recalled because if a child asked the Teddy

555
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: Bear would tell them where they could find knives matches.

556
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: If you asked the teddy Bear a sex question, suddenly

557
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: they lead you, and you know it would lead you

558
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: into a conversation about like fringe. You know, sex spetishes

559
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: like these are not products that are safe for kids,

560
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: and we should not make them available to kids until

561
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: we know they're safe.

562
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you thought of of mister Altman admitting

563
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: that he was surprised at how many people chose to

564
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: use these these in this case chatchebt as a sort

565
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: of therapist, and that he didn't see that coming. And

566
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, in your we've put you in charge of

567
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: building this.

568
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: You know, I have the same feeling about him that

569
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: I did about Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, I think that

570
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: these guys didn't read enough poetry in college.

571
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: I think I have a real cynical view of these guys.

572
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: These guys were the people that never knew how to

573
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: be friends in real life. They were constantly looking And

574
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: you know, I joke that you know that Zuckerberg had

575
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: a hard time meeting girls in college, so he thought

576
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: he could hack his way into finding a computer algorithm

577
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: to match him up with people that might be more

578
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: interested in him.

579
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: Well, that's how Facebook started, right. It was like a

580
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: rate a girl if she's.

581
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: Hot or not. That's what he was looking for. He

582
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: was trying to meet girls. I mean, not an unusual

583
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: thing for a nineteen year old. I'm not going to

584
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of nineteen year olds, boys and

585
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: girls don't know how to do this. So I empathize

586
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: in theory, but I do think the entire the leadership

587
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: of Silicon Valley are some people that didn't grow up

588
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 1: the way a lot of other people grew up.

589
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: I'll give you one more example. Nome Shazir, who founded

590
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: character Ai, was interviewed in a podcast a couple of

591
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: years ago and they asked them about character ai and

592
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: he said, well, I'll give you my humorous VC pitch.

593
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: He said, you know, when child's out walking with their parents,

594
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: they're holding hands, they're asking questions, and the parents giving

595
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: the child a lot of information. But they're not just

596
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: giving them facts. They're also you know, they're their friend,

597
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: They're giving them emotional support. They said, that's what we

598
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: want character ai to do. We don't want to replace Google.

599
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: We want to replace your mom and he said.

600
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 1: This, Oh my god.

601
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: And then and then we've seen all of these lawsuits

602
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: now because character AI, when people have turned to it

603
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: for emotional support or because they are depressed or they

604
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: are struggling, rather than direct them to get help, rather

605
00:33:54,080 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: than stopping the AI program is providing detailed instructions and encouragement,

606
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 2: in some cases for someone to end their own life.

607
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: So I think to that company's credit, they have now

608
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 2: announced that it should not be used by anyone under eighteen.

609
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: But again the question remains, why didn't they consider this

610
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: consequence when they created the product? And so again that

611
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: is why, Mama, we're so focused right now in ensuring

612
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 2: that our lawmakers take action to require these companies to

613
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,479
Speaker 2: be accountable for the products that they make, that there's

614
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: transparency so we know what's happening at these companies, because

615
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: unless you require them to provide this data, you know

616
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: researchers can't even study it, and that there's responsibility and

617
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 2: that when they design them in such a way that

618
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: it's inflicting harm on our children at scale, that they

619
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 2: are held responsible for that. And we are seeing multiple

620
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: lawsuits now from school districts throughout the country who are saying,

621
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: you know what, you have to reimburse us for the

622
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 2: tens of millions of dollars. It's costing us for therapists,

623
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: for emergency psychiatric beds, for all of these costs that

624
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: have been borne by Americans and our communities that are

625
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: really the cause that been caused by these tech company products.

626
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: I want to go back to the school issue, you know,

627
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: one of the fears, you know, I think about the

628
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: following right with the advent of AI over the last

629
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: twenty years, the focus among the many parents. My kids

630
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: are now eighteen and twenty one, so I remember, and

631
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: there was always, you know, every conversation with every parent

632
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: of you know, in my cohort was always you know, hey,

633
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: they got to learn coding, and oh but they better

634
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: learn coding, and that's what's you know, and STEM and

635
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: all of this stuff. And then all of a sudden

636
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: we realize, oh, no, coding is not going to be

637
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: a life skill. This isn't this isn't going to be

638
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: something you need, and it isn't going to help you

639
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: get another job. In fact, that is going to be

640
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: replaced by a robot. So that's that's a that's a

641
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: no longer necessary. That's like teaching somebody how to dig

642
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: out an ice block. We don't. We don't refrigerate with

643
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: ice blocks anymore. That is no longer an industry that

644
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: is necessary. The biggest fear I have now moving from

645
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: parent to grandparent. Right, I'm not there yet, but I have.

646
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: I have nieces and nephews who are having kids now,

647
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: and that is they don't you, And I thought, I

648
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: think we have an idea of the world our kids

649
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: are going to be living in. I think that's harder

650
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: and harder to visualize, and I think it's paralyzing parents

651
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what it is that they

652
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: should be asking the schools to be teaching their kids

653
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: to prepare them for the for for this next generation

654
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: of jobs or this next generation of society, because I

655
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: don't think any of us have the first clue of

656
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: what it's going to look like. And I don't know

657
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: how that factors into what you're working on, but it's

658
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: to me part of the of the fear factor that

659
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: has allowed so much technology into the school systems.

660
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: So the way we describe our work at MAMA is

661
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: that where a grassroots movement of parents and allies fighting

662
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: back against media addiction and creating a world where real

663
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: life experiences and interactions remain at the heart of a

664
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: healthy childhood. And the reason for that is because tech

665
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 2: is here. It's not going anywhere. We are going to

666
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: have a lot of technology available to us, and it's

667
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 2: going to help us solve a lot of problems. But

668
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: there are many things about being human that we don't

669
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: want to change, and it should always be part of

670
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: being human. I don't want a robot to hold my

671
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 2: toddler or my grand baby. I want to hold that child.

672
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 2: And we don't think that we should just blindly say, okay,

673
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 2: tech is going to replace everything. We know that, and

674
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: there's abundant evidence about the role of parents and adults

675
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 2: in children's lives and about the role of embodied experiences

676
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 2: in children's learning. And we also know that there are many, many,

677
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 2: many jobs that technology is not good for. I don't

678
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: know if you saw that video that was making its

679
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: way across social media last week, but there was a

680
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: new AI robot. It was presented at a conference and

681
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: as it got across the stage, you know it was

682
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: it looked really cool until it fell down because they

683
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: haven't even figured out balance yet. So, you know, over

684
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: and over again, for more than a century, we've heard

685
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: tech companies promise that their product is going to revolutionize everything,

686
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 2: and some products do and they you know, a smartphone

687
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: has changed a lot of things. Has it changed the

688
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: way we eat food? Has it changed the way we

689
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: nurture our babies, has it changed the way you know,

690
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: our economy has run, not exactly. There are some changes

691
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 2: in our payments, right, but absolutely everything is not going

692
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: to change. So when it comes to thinking about the future,

693
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 2: you know, what I want for my children is to

694
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: have the same thing that my grandparents wanted for their kids.

695
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: It's the same thing I want for my future grandchildren.

696
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: I want them to grow up healthy. I want them

697
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: to grow up confident and capable. I want them to

698
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: have a set of skills so that they are resilient

699
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: and can adapt. Because nobody knows exactly what the workplace

700
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: is going to need, right, but we're always going to

701
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: need trades, We're always going to need skilled workers, We're

702
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 2: always going to need caretakers, and all of these professions

703
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: that hold up what it means to have a society.

704
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: The tech workers and the folks that the machines are

705
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 2: a small part of that. And I think we also

706
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 2: just don't want to give it all over to the machines.

707
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,479
Speaker 2: You know, the Luddites happened because those folks like didn't

708
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: want to lose their jobs. And now we're at a

709
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: point where many, many more types of work can be replaced,

710
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 2: and we have to decide is that what we want?

711
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: Do we want actors to not you have jobs anymore?

712
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: Do we want everything to be robots? And I don't

713
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: think we do. I don't think anybody wants to take

714
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 2: their kindergartener to class and have them taught by a

715
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: robot teacher.

716
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: Do you hate hangovers? We'll say goodbye to hangovers. Out

717
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: of Office gives you the social buzz without the next

718
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: day regret. They're best selling. Out of Office gummies were

719
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: designed to provide a mild, relaxing buzz, boost your mood,

720
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: and enhance creativity and relaxation. With five different strengths, you

721
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: can tailor the dose to fit your vibe. From a

722
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: gentle one point five milligram micro doose to their newest

723
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: fifteen milligram gummy for a more elevated experience. Their THHC

724
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: beverages and gummies are a modern, mindful alternative to a

725
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: glass of wine or a cocktail. And I'll tell you this,

726
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: I've given up booze. I don't like the hangovers. I

727
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: prefer the gummy experience. Soul is a wellness brand that

728
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: believes feeling good should be fun and easy. Soul specializes

729
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: in delicious HEMP derived THHD and CBD products, all designed

730
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: to boost your mood and simply help you on wine.

731
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: So if you struggle to switch off at night, so

732
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: also as a variety of products specifically designed to just

733
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: simply help you get a better night's sleep, including their

734
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: top selling sleepy gummies. It's a fan favorite for deep

735
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: restorative sleep. So bring on the good vibes and treat

736
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: yourself to Soul today. Right now, Soul is offering my

737
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: audience thirty percent off your entire order, So go to

738
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: get sold dot Com use the promo code toodcast. Don't

739
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: forget that code. That's get sold dot Com promo code

740
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: toodcast for thirty percent off. This is where I'm weirdly optimistic.

741
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: You know, the human species is pretty adaptable and has

742
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: survived quite a few challenges over the last few million years.

743
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 1: I have a feeling we're not going to let ourselves

744
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: be replaced by robots. I just wonder if we know

745
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: we need it when we're ready to start fighting back.

746
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's time. I mean, the time is yere, right.

747
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: And that's where I want to get to. So okay,

748
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 1: So you're you are trying to essentially become a political force,

749
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: not left or right, just a force. You know, we're

750
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: not exactly advocating an advocacy. What are you working on

751
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 1: in the next six months? I know in the federal

752
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: level we talked a little bit about it. It's the

753
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: stopping this uh AI moratorium, Ai regulatory moratorium. What are

754
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: some near term activities in the States that you're working

755
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: on as well? And are you going to, you know,

756
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: try to do candidate questionnaires or try to do things

757
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: like that or are you not in that that space

758
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: just yet.

759
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 2: So we're not in that space just yet. We're a

760
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 2: five at one C three, we're not a C four.

761
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: You know. Working on demanding safeguards is one small part

762
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: of what we do. We also work really hard on

763
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 2: our communities to educate parents on why they don't have

764
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: to rush to give their kids a phone are wonderful

765
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: chapter leader in Pittsburgh, you know, talked with the members

766
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 2: of that chapter and they really wanted their children to

767
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 2: be able to go to school without phones. But some

768
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: parents were worried, what about an emergency And they went

769
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: and they talked to local shop owners and they said,

770
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: you know, in an emergency, can my child come in

771
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 2: and use the phone? And the store owners were like,

772
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: of course, and they put little stickers in the window

773
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: so the kids would even know they were welcome there. Right.

774
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: So Mama works in communities, and then we also work

775
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: with schools because this is a huge issue now, not

776
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 2: just the phones, but what people are calling ed tech,

777
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 2: so that is the giving of tablets to kindergarteners, the

778
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: giving of laptop to first graders, and all over the

779
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: country we're hearing from parents that they're at war with

780
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 2: their schools because they don't want their children to come

781
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 2: home and have these devices. They don't want their children

782
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: to have access to YouTube where they're going to be

783
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: watching videos over and over, and the platform is designed

784
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: to keep them on there as long as possible. And

785
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: then in terms of legislation, we are very excited about

786
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: all of the lawmakers that introduce bills to try to

787
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: require products to be safer. In the last legislative session,

788
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 2: we saw close to four hundred bills introduced. There were

789
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: a lot, but we've seen success in everything from bell

790
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 2: to bell phone bands to social media warning labels pass.

791
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 2: And we're most excited about legislation like something called the

792
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: Age Appropriate Design Code or the Kid's Code. And this

793
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: is law that requires companies that make digital products to

794
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 2: be used by children to show what's called a duty

795
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 2: of care to children in making them safe by design.

796
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 2: So if the if a kid's going to go on there,

797
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 2: then it should be designed in a safe way. And

798
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: that means doing things like putting privacy settings at the

799
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: highest by default, not the lowest, so that every American

800
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: parent doesn't have to go in there and figure out

801
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 2: how to make sure a stranger can't contact their child.

802
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: But it's set that way from the beginning. So Nebraska

803
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: and Vermont, for example, this year passed the Age Appropriate

804
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: Design Code.

805
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 1: By the way, that just shows you the ideological breadth

806
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: if you will, that's there, right, you know Vermont's Vermont,

807
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 1: the homer Bernie Sanders. Well, guess what Nebraska is. They

808
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: root for a team they call Big Red. And it

809
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: isn't just because Nebraska's colors are red.

810
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: Yep. And you know, we're also seeing some interesting legislation

811
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 2: now being introduced about AI. So in October, Senators Mark

812
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: Warner from Virginia, Josh Hawley from Missouri, Dick Blumenthal from Connecticut,

813
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: Chris Murphy from Connecticut, and Katie Brett from Alabama introduced

814
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: this bipartisan bill that would ban minors from using AI

815
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: chatbot companions. And it would have an incredible impact on

816
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: the safety of our children. So, you know, that's the

817
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: kind of thing. I mean, who wouldn't support that? I

818
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 2: mean you have to ask who wouldn't support keeping kids safe?

819
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: Do you? You know, do you plan on having sort of

820
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: Mama Seal of approvals? You know, meaning like if you

821
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: want to see what are what are? What are? You know?

822
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: Could I, you know, maybe this a little early my

823
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: next holiday season, will I go on Mama's website and

824
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: be able to see these are products that you should

825
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: feel comfortable that have some tech in him, that are

826
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: that are safe check.

827
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: I don't want to promise that to your listeners, it's

828
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 2: definitely on our to do list. We're moving as quickly

829
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: as we can. As I mentioned, you know, we had

830
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: this ambitious goal of having six chapters, and the demand

831
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 2: is just completely overwhelming. Right after we launched, we got

832
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,760
Speaker 2: requests from all fifty states and all over the globe,

833
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 2: like every continent except Antarctica. So you know, we are

834
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 2: very grateful that we receive some funding this year from

835
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 2: the Rockefeller Foundation, and we are primarily uh funded by

836
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 2: individual donors and family foundations. There's a lot of folks

837
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 2: who've come together to make this work happen, and we're

838
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 2: growing as quickly as we can. But yes, I do

839
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: think eventually that is something we would like to provide.

840
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you just talked about the world.

841
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: I heard a stat and I wonder if you guys

842
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: are now a clearinghouse for some of these studies that

843
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: there has not been a study around the world on

844
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: social media usage or early phone usage that it hasn't

845
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: mattered whether it's a rich country a poor country, It

846
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: hasn't mattered what ethnicity or if it's a you know,

847
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: homogeneous society or a multi ethnic society that this is

848
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: it is so clear that this this tech at a

849
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: young age, has been harmful hardstop.

850
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: You know, social media doesn't discriminate, and we have definitely

851
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: seen that. You know, with the National Emergency and Youth

852
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: Mental Health, it cuts across race, class, gender, geography, you

853
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 2: name it. There is additional concerns for vulnerable communities. We

854
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: have seen unfortunate the increase in suicide rates among Hispanic

855
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: adolescents is even higher than in its white counterparts. The

856
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: rate of increase in Black youth is high. So I

857
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: think we're beginning to see a different kind of digital

858
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: divide where low income families. And in part it might

859
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: be because childcare is so expensive.

860
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: And I'm just going to say, is that child is

861
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: basically unfortunately we have tech nannies, right. You know, I

862
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: was a latch key kid. First thing I did when

863
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: I had to get home was I had to call

864
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: my mom at work to let her know.

865
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: I got in the house, right, And you probably watched

866
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: TV and that was fine though, you know, I did.

867
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: Turn on TV. But what would happen now? Right? You

868
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: whip on? You probably you know, put the device on, right.

869
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I watched more Love Boat than any ten

870
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 2: year old should have. But there was a limit to

871
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: what kinds of things.

872
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: My parents did wearing crazy about me watching love Boat

873
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: or Three's Company. I remember exactly.

874
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: We didn't even know.

875
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: I'll see an old rerunning go oh my god, like

876
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 1: what that is? I can't believe they let that on television?

877
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: Right well now, the average age of first exposure to

878
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: pornography is twelve. Okay, check twelve, like you know, and

879
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: look like I think as a parent, you know, I

880
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 2: don't have crazy conservative ideas. I know that at some

881
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: point my sons will probably be exposed to pornography in

882
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: high school, but I don't think it should be mainline

883
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: to them by a couple of companies that are making

884
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: gobs of profit if they can get people to stay

885
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: on their platform longer.

886
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 1: There's certain things that should be hard to come by,

887
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: and they have to. Frankly, in some ways you should

888
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: feel a little bit of shame, because that's actually a

889
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: good thing to have through life.

890
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, look, I don't think anybody would

891
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: support allowing pornography at the checkout register at the supermarket,

892
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: but we didn't. We don't have a law that forces

893
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 2: people to you know, put it high up behind the

894
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: counter or wrap it in paper bags, you know. So

895
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 2: custom is part of this and part of what's challenging

896
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 2: in the digital eras that we're you know, these companies, we're.

897
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: Still making the customs. We don't really have it making

898
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: the customs right, And I think that that's been that's

899
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 1: what makes this feel so challenging. And because I think

900
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: we all agree we've got to figure out how to

901
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: slow down the adapt the adaptation of tech in kids' lives.

902
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 1: But my god, is the toothpaste already out of the tube.

903
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 2: Well, we have Mama's House Rules. If you go to

904
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: we are Mama dot org and you click on learn,

905
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 2: you can scroll down and Mama's House Rules give you

906
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: some ideas of how as a family you can manage it,

907
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 2: limit it, put it in a container. Again, we're not

908
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: saying there's going to be no tech in your life,

909
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: but we're just saying, how do you have a life

910
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: that's based on real life experiences and interaction, because once

911
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 2: you or your child are spending too much time online,

912
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: it just becomes so unhealthy. And you know we're all

913
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 2: media addicted, right, it's not just our children, and what

914
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: we model has a huge huge impact on them.

915
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: Well, if I just went on your site, we are

916
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: Mama dot org, so that's the fairly quick and easy place.

917
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: You mentioned one other thing about tobacco about how those

918
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: that were advocating against it had a went to Hollywood

919
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: and said, hey, we need to redo this. Are you

920
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing with Hollywood with tech?

921
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: You know, you say, hey, you know, bo make it

922
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: so that you know, everything that happens online is bad,

923
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: the cool stuff is in person, or something like that.

924
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,240
Speaker 1: How are you trying to influence culture in that front?

925
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 2: So, you know, we've had some conversations with some people

926
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 2: in the space. I think other you know, Joe Gordon

927
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: Levitt has been a tremendous voice for healthy human relationships.

928
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 2: I know he's a dad and he again he's not

929
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 2: anti tech. He just thinks like tech should be safe

930
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: and that we shouldn't. He has a wonderful ted talk

931
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: that you could check out about his own experience with

932
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 2: social media and what he learned is unhealthy about it.

933
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 2: I think that more and more people in Hollywood are

934
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: waking up to this, especially after the actors the sag

935
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 2: after strike last year. You know, so many studios had

936
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 2: sort of suggested that they just pay actors once and

937
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 2: don't hire him again, and then they can just make

938
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: an AI likeness. And I don't think anybody likes the

939
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 2: idea of never working again, because you know, pixels can

940
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: just replace them. And then I think Pixar in the

941
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: Last Toy Story movie, I think they actually had a

942
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: digital device kind of be one of the negative characters.

943
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: So maybe somebody over there is getting the message.

944
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: Interesting, Julie, I am, you know, cheering you on. I'm

945
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: glad to give you a platform. I want to stay

946
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,879
Speaker 1: in touch, want to continue to help spread the word.

947
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think generally everybody gets it.

948
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of paralysis out there, and

949
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: I think what you've shown is that hey, you're not alone.

950
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: You're not alone. And it's just been so moving and

951
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 2: inspiring to see all these parents come forward. We're looking

952
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 2: for more chapter leaders and a couple of specific states.

953
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 2: So if you have any listeners in Wisconsin or Tennessee

954
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 2: or Kentucky.

955
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: Okay, here you go and challenge accept it. Here we go.

956
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: Come on, Kentucky and Tennessee and Wisconsin. I got listeners

957
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,879
Speaker 1: in all those states. We know this. Let's go, let's

958
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: get this done. And I'd like to see you know

959
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: who the best advocates for this could be today's college students.

960
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: You know, I'd love to see you get college chapters.

961
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: That was look, that was a big part of Matt.

962
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: They got some college chapters and that helped absolutely.

963
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 2: We work with some youth led groups now that are

964
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 2: just truly wonderful, and you know, I am both grateful

965
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: for their advocacy and it breaks my heart that we

966
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 2: have put kids in a situation where children have to

967
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: go to Congress and testify about what happened to them

968
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 2: and how they were groomed online or received eating disorder encouragement.

969
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 2: You know, we're the parents. We have to make it

970
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 2: safe for our kids.

971
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: Julie so much, so grateful to talk with you.

972
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: Thank you you too, pleasure. Thanks