WEBVTT - It's a Numbers Game: Karen Read Acquitted! Turtleboy Reacts 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.920 Welcome back to a Numbers Game podcast with Brian Gerdowski. 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.840 Thank you for coming on this Thursday episode. I am 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:11.760 on my way to Kansas. I will be the keynote 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:15.079 speaker this weekend at the Bob Dole Dinner for the 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.520 Kansas Republican Party, which is very exciting. 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:18.760 I'm very nervous. 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:21.959 I wanted to do a good job and pay tribute 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.919 to the legacy of Bob Doll to talk about the future, 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:28.319 but this is It's very nerve wracking, and I am 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:30.600 I'm honored to be invited, but at the same time, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.360 I'm not exactly sure why I was invited, but I'm excited. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.520 Funny story, Bob Dole running for president nineteen ninety six 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.839 was the first time I realized that there was an 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.720 election for president. I was nine years old in school 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.159 and we had to learn about it. And I remember 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.320 going learning at all the candidates running and going home 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.680 to my parents and saying, I learned about this election, 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.320 and I want you to vote for Ross Pro. 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:56.320 They didn't. They voted it for Dole. 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.280 But I think I might open my speech with saying 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.240 that I was a Pro fan at the age of nine. Anyway, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.120 hopefully goes well, and I'll tell you how it goes 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.600 next week and they don't boom me as part of 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.039 Bob Dole's revenge for being a you thrust for pro supporter. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:13.400 Today's gonna be a unique episode. 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.000 I have some numbers I want to throw you guys out, 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.280 but I'm going to have a non political story and 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.280 interview that I think you guys would find very fascinating. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.360 So first on the political stuff across the pond over 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.800 the UK, the Labor government finally did at about face 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:32.679 this week and did a proper investigation into grooming gangs. Now, 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.160 for those who don't know, I appeared on the BBC 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.400 almost teny years ago saying that there was a it 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:41.800 was a conversation on Trump and you know, always bringing 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.200 up the Muslim band and they were telling how racist 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.399 it was and all the rest of this and that 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.160 there's no you know, Muslim terrorism, and I said, yes 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.800 there is, like you have Muslim grooming gangs from Pakistani 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.520 men raping white girls in northern England. The host of 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.800 the show at the BBC show, they kicked me off 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.760 the air, said it wasn't happening, that what I said 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.520 wasn't true, and that apologized to the audience that I 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.920 had offended listeners for what I had said. That was 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:14.239 almost ten years ago. Well, Baroness Luis Casey has released 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.240 a two hundred page report and found that the mere 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:24.920 Pori Pakistanis from the Kashmir Providence were extremely well overrepresented 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.840 in all data responsible for grooming gangs in the UK. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.480 You might think this is one little area of Pakistan 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.360 and how many people could it be. There are about 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.880 one million Poori Pakistanis living in the UK. It is 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:41.480 the biggest predominant group that come to the UK from Pakistan. Now, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.240 in many of the cases, the ethnicity of the perpetrators 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.760 never taken because officials feared that they will be labeled 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.680 as racists. But in areas that it was taken. In 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.760 three hundred and twenty three cases known as Operations stove Wood, 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:59.520 sixty two percent of all groomers were Pakistani, despite the 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.480 fact that they make up only three percent of the population. 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:07.280 Eve At Cooper, the Home Secretary basically our version of DHS, 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.480 put out a list of recommendations. It includes ensuring adults 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.040 who engage impenetrative sex with children under sixteen based the 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.280 most serious charge of rape instead of lesser charges. They're 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.400 going to launch a new national Criminal Operation to oversee 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.680 the National Crime Agency and tackle grooming gangs. They're going 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.040 to review the criminal convictions of child sexual exploitation and 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.120 quashing any convictions where the government finds that the victims 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.680 were criminalized rather than be protected. They're going to make 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.960 a collection of ethnicity and national data for all suspects 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.480 of child's abuse. They're going to commission research into driven 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.160 into drivers for group based child sexual exploitation, including the 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.240 role of social media and cultural factors. And they're going 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.560 to bring a more rigorous standard for the licensing and 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.240 regulation of taxi drivers because many of these Pakistani men 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:59.760 were taxi drivers luring young girls into their taxis saying 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.200 you want to come have alcohol or you know, drugs, 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.560 which in many poor areas of Northern England was very 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.960 enticing to fourteen year old girls to have alcohol. Remember, 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.480 the drinking ages are a lot lower and the culture 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.000 aroun drinking is a lot more open. They would say yes, 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.800 they would drug them, get them drunk, then drug them 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.200 and then rape them in a group activity. Okay, some 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:21.840 of these ideas are very good and I'm going to 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.680 give credit to the Labor government on at least going 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:29.080 this far, considering they've been completely opposed to it for decades, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.480 certainly since my comments came out in twenty ten. They've 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.800 been notoriously against method because it's made just because they 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.880 have been against it for years. But what the UK 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.800 government needs to do is repeal most or parts of 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.159 the Equality Act of twenty ten. This was a law 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.680 passed by the previous Labor Labor government from years ago, 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:56.559 and it prohibits discrimination based on protected characteristics, including race, 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.800 in employment and service delivery. Police officers, as public servants 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.279 are subject to this law and discriminatory behavior can be 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:09.240 deemed as gross misconduct. So police officers were purposely not 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:15.160 investigating cases of child rape child sexual exploitation when the 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:20.080 victim was going with biological evidence in some cases saying 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.200 you can look at me, I have been raped multiple times. 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.200 They refuse to do it because if the grooming gang 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.640 said this police officer is clearly racist, there would be 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.320 overwhelming push to have that police officer dismissed from their 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:40.280 jobs and that they are the problem, not that the 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:44.120 criminals were the problem. And this law is the lynchpin 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.839 behind which all of these police officers were unable to 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.320 really do their job in a profound way. 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:51.919 You know. 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:52.360 JK. 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.599 Rowling was tweeting like, we need to change the culture 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:58.200 of protecting girls. Yes, but you need to undo the law, 0:05:58.440 --> 0:05:59.880 you crazy liberal like that. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.000 That is what it is. 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.760 I know, like the idea of the Quality Act sounds wonderful, 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.640 but the law is creating all these circumstances. And one 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.120 last thing, maybe don't bring in a million people from 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:15.040 a culture that views women as lesser than Maybe don't 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.480 bring in a million people from a culture that thinks 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:22.120 child's sexual activities perfectly normal, that women can be beat 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.640 that you know, you could have that women are like, 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.840 you know, furniture or animals. That is the problem. You 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.920 are importing a culture that for many people, especially when 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.240 it is ghetto wise, because you're bringing in so many people, 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.160 they they push, they bring that culture with them, They 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.840 bring that culture to the UK and they view a 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:45.880 lot of things like this is a prize is to 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.599 sit there and rape a young British woman. So good 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.400 for the UK government for doing something, but it is 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.640 outrageous it took this long and hopefully if there's someone 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.000 in the entire UK government level with a brain from 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.800 either the Reform or Tory party. They will talk about 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.240 repealing the Equalities Act if they haven't already. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:05.760 I don't. Maybe they did, but I don't think they did. 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.840 Okay, that's your number is for this podcast on the 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:10.920 political side. 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:11.720 Now, I want to. 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.160 Get to a passion interest of mine, which is true crime. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.480 I know there's a million podcasts on true crime and 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.760 books and whatever, and we'll get back to politics on Monday. 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.000 This is not going to become a true crime podcast, 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:23.239 but this episode is special. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.240 I am a true crime junkie. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.080 I've listened to podcasts, I've read books like A Stranger 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.800 Beside Me, which is one of my favorite books, documentaries, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:33.600 you name it, like if I'm ap at two o'clock 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.960 in the morning, I'm researching who killed John bin a Ramsay. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.240 This is who I am. It is a sickness. It 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.800 is a mental illness. I understand it. But I love 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.720 true crime. So the most talked about trial of the 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.280 year just ended, and it is the Karen Reid trial, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.120 and it's about the death of John O'Keefe. So most 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.480 of you have probably maybe heard about this trial or 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.040 hear parts of it. I wanted to give you the 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.560 brief facts before going into the interview because it is interesting. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.880 On the night of January twenty eighth, twenty twenty two, 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.960 Karen Reid and John o'keef, who were dating John A. Keeps, 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.200 a forty six year old Boston police officer, where they 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.520 were out drinking with friends in Canton, Massachusetts, about twenty 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.400 miles south of Boston. After visiting bars, they were invited 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.040 to an after party at the home of Brian Albert, 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.560 another Boston police officer. There was a terrible snowstorm outside 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.200 but they but John insisted on going to this after party, 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.680 so they drove to the house. Allegedly, there they saw 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.440 no lights on in the house. John o'keef got out 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.480 of the car went to the house around twelve thirty 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.280 am to see if there were people inside. According to prosecutors, 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.880 this is when allegedly Karen Reid, who was intoxicated and 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.040 angry at him, backed up into him, hitting him and 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.640 leaving him to die in the snow. John o'keef's body 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:49.200 was discovered at six am. I think he might have 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.880 been a lie, but he was pronounced dead shortly afterwards. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.920 Karen Reid was arrested on February first, twenty twenty two, 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.560 and charged with second degree murder man saw her while 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.760 operating under the influence of alcohol and leaving the scene 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.920 of a collision causing injury or death. She pleaded not 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.560 guilty to all charges. Her defense team insisted that this 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.200 was actually a cover up, insinuating that the police were 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:14.240 actually a fall for his death. Witnesses said that Karen 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:16.920 she did come back to the scene of crime a 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.760 few hours later, I guess when she had sobered up, 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.960 And they said that she said that she had hit him, 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.240 and she had left the scene and left him to die. 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.240 And when she had left the scene of twelve thirty, 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.760 she did leave him a lot of angry voicemails because 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.079 he did not come back to see to say like, oh, 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.720 you can come in, or I'm good or whatever. So 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.480 Reid's defense team Karen Read's defense team, led by attorney 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.600 David Yanetti and Alan Jackson. They argue that O'Keefe was 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.600 killed inside the Albertone, possibly beaten an attacked by a dog, 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.720 and dumped outside, with Reed being framed as the cover 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.880 up for the crime. Their theory was that O'Keefe got 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.720 out of the car went inside the house, a fight 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.679 ensued with someone inside the house, either Brian Albert or 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.640 his other Colin Albert, or Brian Higgins, a federal agent 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.920 who was also the party someone fought with him is 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:10.320 the point they pointed to o'keef's arm injuries, though the 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:14.480 defense did saying that saying because of a witness, an 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:18.080 expert witness, doctor Marie Russell, they suggested that his injuries 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.319 were not with a car, but they were with dog bites, 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.120 and the family inside the house had a dog at 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.559 the time, they had a German shepherd. They said these 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.640 dog bites at the home were showing that there must 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:35.760 have been a fight and the dog got involved, which 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.480 a German shepherd would if their owner was fighting. Incidentally, 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.240 between the time of the attack and the trial, the 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.280 very first trial of Karen Reid, the dog was re 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.720 homed in that time, so they could never do a 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.360 investigation where they looked into the dog. A lot of 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:59.040 things that were inside that house allegedly went missing or destroyed. 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.120 There were outside videotapes from across the street that never 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:07.360 showed up. There was phones that were destroyed. Afterwards. At 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.760 two twenty seven am, Jennifer McCabe, who was married to 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.560 mister McCabe. She looked in her Google searches on her 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.600 phone has a long to die in cold, suggesting that 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.079 there was some fore knowledge of mister O'Keefe's condition, of 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.400 John o keep's condition before the body was found. McCabe 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.920 claimed that it was searched at six am, six twenty 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.480 am when Karen was there at the house looking for him, 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.959 but it was it was to twenty seven am. They 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.400 also said that there was key evidence, the key evidence 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.440 of the whole trial was this broken tail light that 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.640 Karen Read's car allegedly had. This broken tail light found 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.480 at the scene, but it was found days later underneath 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.560 all the snow. They they claimed the defense claimed it 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:54.400 was actually planted there, and it was not. It wasn't 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.080 like that she hit him, broke the tail light and 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.160 then fled. That actually was planted there a few days 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:04.840 later by people within that Canton PD Boston PD universe 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:09.959 trying to protect the mccabes well. On Wednesday, June eighteenth, 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.400 after four days of deliberation in the second trial, the 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.120 first trial was on jury. In this second trial, the 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.400 jury acquitted Karen Read of all major charges, finding her 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.520 only guilty of driving under the influence, which basically I 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.000 mean Karen did say she was drinking right beforehand, so 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.839 it's not shocking. But all the major things of the 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.560 murder in the second degree, fleeing the scene of a crime, 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.600 all that she was declared that she was not guilty. 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.080 This case has deeply divided communities across the country who 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.679 feel that Ree was either innocent and wrongfully framed by 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.400 a power hungry and corrupt police department, or that they 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.960 felt she murdered her boyfriend and that she was a 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.520 cold hearted, crazy woman. And then there are other people 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.839 feel like she was overcharged. Maybe she hit him, but 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.640 it should have been a manslaughter charge and not a 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:01.120 homicide in the second degree. Remember the prosecution, and they 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.240 didn't just say, oh, they probably hit her. They went 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.880 for the full juggular. They went for the full She 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.720 intentionally hit him. It wasn't an accident. She meant to 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:12.560 hit him. She did hit him, and then she fled 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:14.880 in her drunken state. That's what they accused her of. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.839 It's a very very severe charge. In the middle of 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.360 his whole trial, Karen Reid became this lightning rod of 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:26.640 controversy and one man was behind the entire ground swell, 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.439 grassroots effort to free her. And his name is Aiden Carney, 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.200 otherwise known as turtle Boy. Aiden also has become a 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.600 lightning plot of controversy. He was charged with witness tampering 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.360 or sorry, witness intimidation. Rather, he said he said that 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.640 was an effort to smear him. He's fighting those charges, 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.559 but hate him are love him. He created a widespread 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.920 effort to free Camra Read and he was successful in 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.800 doing that. He created a movement from people all over 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.280 that region and all over the country. They responded to 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.679 what he was doing. He is coming on this podcast 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:02.960 next the first time after the Karen retrial. He's going 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.080 to give a full interview. I'm so excited. Please stay 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:11.679 tuned and we'll be back with Turtle Boy. With me 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.640 on today's podcast is Aimed Cardney. He is otherwise known 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.520 as turtle Boy. Thank you so much for coming on. 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:19.000 Aiden. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.520 My first question to you is how did you first 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.480 hear about Karen's story and what made you throw yourself 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.680 fully into it, like it's been a big part of 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.000 your life last few years. 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:32.840 Yeah, so, I know it was in the news when 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:37.200 John first died I typically write about stories like that when, 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.720 especially when the police are killed, it's you know, content, 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.520 people are interested in death of a police officer. When 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.440 I saw that it appeared to be an accident though, 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.440 which just wasn't a very interesting story. Quite frankly, it 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.840 was a tragic story. But then a year and a 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.000 half later, when court filing started coming out and you 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.200 started reading more and more about this, and it turned 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.800 out that I was sitting on the story of the century, 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.880 I realized that this deserved a much deeper dive when 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.840 I realized that, wait a minute, a Boston police officer. 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:11.400 At his house. 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.400 Apparently killed another Boston police officer with an ATF agent 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.960 and other people, and they covered it up after the fact, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.120 and the state police assisted them in that. Like I'm 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.240 sitting on the story of the century here, and you know, 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:25.920 I just started writing about it, and here we are, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:27.480 so you. 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.680 Know, at the center of this case is a real tragedy. 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:31.320 I mean, John'll keep his dead and his family and 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:37.440 his friends miss him terribly. Karen is a lightning rod, right. 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.240 Either she is a victim of the biggest cover up 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.480 by the state and local police, or she's a crazy, 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.160 jilted woman who did this, either intentionally or by an accent. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:54.640 What made people's intensity that drew her towards her so 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:55.680 heavy like this? 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:56.480 Why did? 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.680 I mean, there's a lot of cases of people who 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.960 are accused of crimes, but something about Karen made her 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:03.320 people appealed to her. 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.040 Do you have an opinion about that? 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.640 Yeah, because she's so transparently innocent. I mean, that's all 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.520 of this. It's just so obvious. 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.240 I don't defend people who are charged with murdering police. 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.040 I'm usually on the other side of that issue. Usually 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.880 I'm very pro police, and I still am. And I've 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.240 done a lot of articles exposing the opposite of this, 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.400 the weakness of our court system that allows cop killers 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.160 to be free in the first place. The profile of 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.600 a cop killer is always the same. It's somebody with 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.240 like one hundred and twenty five priors almost always, and 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:35.640 so this. 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.360 Didn't fit that description. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.640 So like, for me to go out and defend somebody 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.440 who's accused of murdering a cop, you better believe there's 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.960 going to be overwhelming evidence to back that up. I 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.840 never would have jumped into this otherwise. It's just so 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.600 obvious the amount of evidence that she had in her 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.400 legal team. Ad showing that not only was she factually innocent, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.040 but that other people were involved in murdering him. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.320 Made me realize, Oh, this is I have to get 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:02.800 involved here. I have to do something. I have to 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:03.440 write about this. 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:05.679 And you know, the story had been going on for 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:07.480 about a year and a half, but it wasn't getting 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:08.680 any media coverage. 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:10.440 And that's what I'm good at. 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:12.160 You know, if I've been doing what I do now 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:16.080 for over a decade and I just started writing about it, 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.000 and I had a pretty large platform, and it just 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:20.320 grew and grew and grew from there. 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.160 When you think back to the trial, obviously, I mean 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.680 she was up against like a goliath, right, I mean 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.679 at the very beginning there was it did not I 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.239 mean I watched the documentaries of she was really up 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.600 against it and her legal defense was like it was 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.960 literally David and Goliath. How they turned the corner? Looking back, 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.640 When did you think to yourself, they're going to find 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.640 her innocent, Like they've done enough at this point where 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.159 the defense has actually done their job, Like, was there 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.520 a point or did you always think like she was 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.200 going to be found in this sent there's no question, Well, I. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.760 Always felt she was going to be found innocent, no question, 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.000 until I did after the first trial, after the first 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.399 ended in a mistrial, I was convinced they were going 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.040 to deliver it for about five seconds, and because it 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:06.919 was just so obvious that she was innocent and these 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.760 people are all so shady and they're all lying, it 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.320 was just like, Okay, obviously they're going to quit her. 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.240 And then when they didn't and they came back hung, 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.040 I did what's called a journalism. 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:18.920 I went and found jurors. 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.520 The journalist was impounded, so you couldn't just find these 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.960 people on their own, but I asked around. I got names, 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:25.880 I got emails, and I started reaching out to them, 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:27.679 and I got this guy Ronnie to come on. 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.840 And Ronnie, as painful as it is to listen to 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:31.639 him and. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.760 His explanation of what was happening in that jury room, 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.639 even though it's insanity the things that they were talking about, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:43.520 it was still really important to hear because he was 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.520 Basically what he said was, we didn't pay any attention 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:47.240 to the conspiracy. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:48.520 We thought that was a distractor. 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.080 We were focused on the data, the textream data from 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:53.840 the car, the fact that she was the one that 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.680 dropped them off there that she was drunk blah blah 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.639 blah blah, and that enabled Karen Reid's defense team to 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.400 read My interview with Ronnie enabled the Karen Reid team 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.879 to readjust their strategy and focus less on the conspiracy. 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:08.960 You didn't get that much in the second trial, and 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.320 more on John wasn't hit by a car, there was 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:13.040 no collision. 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:14.520 If there was no collision, then. 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:16.680 Karen Reid didn't do it, and it's not their job 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:17.960 to figure out who did. 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.760 Quite frankly right, and they blew that did so? 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:22.959 Do you so? 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.119 Like they didn't think about the dog bites or already 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.040 think that dog bite They thought that was a distraction. 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.000 Yeah, that's one of the things that Ronnie told me that, 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.119 like the dog thing was a distraction. That these are 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.040 all big distractions to take away from the fact that 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:37.520 she ran him over with the car. I mean, it 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:40.560 was it was painful to interview him, but as as 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.560 painful as that was, like, that's journalism, that's finding out 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.719 from these people who were in the room, what happened. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.720 What did you guys discuss and no one else had 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:50.240 that scoop? 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.720 Wow, that's crazy. I didn't. Okay, I missed that story 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:56.080 that they thought that all. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.280 Of this was was so they thought that even what 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.960 about the text from the cop talking about how she is, 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.800 how she looked, and were there any nudes or they 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:06.879 thought that was they thought that was abstraction. 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.760 Their basic takeaway with that was, Yeah, he's a scumbag, 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.119 he's not a good person, but it doesn't change the 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:13.879 fact that she had him with the car like that 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.840 was their takeaway, and that he got carried away because 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.560 he was so upset with this woman for killing John 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.520