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Speaker 1: Hello, It's Richard mclin smith here. Before we begin this

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Speaker 1: week's episode, I just wanted to tell you about a

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Speaker 1: new podcast of mine. The show is called Rescue and

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Speaker 1: is hosted by survival expert Donnie Dust. With each episode,

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Speaker 1: Rescue takes you deep into the heart of the world's

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Speaker 1: most astonishing rescue stories told by the people who were there.

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Speaker 1: It's a little different to Unexplained, but I hope that

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Speaker 1: you will enjoy it. Nonetheless, Rescue is out now listen

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts now. Continuing with Unexplained, please

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Speaker 1: be advised that this episode contains themes of slavery and

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Speaker 1: torture that some may find disturbing. It's nineteen oh five.

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Speaker 1: A small party of maids are sent from England to

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Speaker 1: the Caribbean to cast their eyes over the crumbling great

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Speaker 1: house that their employers have recently he purchased. Located roughly

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Speaker 1: ten miles from Montego Bay, the Jamaican Georgian House Rose Hall,

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Speaker 1: overlooks the north coast of the island. The view is

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Speaker 1: panoramic spectacular, but the wide blue sky and golden sun

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Speaker 1: cannot compete with the heaviness that lurks in the air.

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Speaker 1: In the seventy years prior to the maid's arrival at

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Speaker 1: rose Hall, the house has fallen into disrepair after the

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Speaker 1: abrupt exit of its former owners. The once impressive mahogany

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Speaker 1: gateway is nothing but crumbling stone, defaced by those who

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Speaker 1: fear and abhor the place. The ornaments that once decorated

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Speaker 1: the tops of the pillars have been stolen. Now rust

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Speaker 1: and decay are its only adornments. Once a grand avenue

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Speaker 1: of trees of infinite variety lined the half mile up

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Speaker 1: to the property, far reaching part giant mahogany, the sweet

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Speaker 1: smelling tang of orange trees. Now, though, the maid's horses

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Speaker 1: shy away from the foreboding place, and the carriage is

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Speaker 1: unable to proceed along the old road, so covered is

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Speaker 1: it by weeds and bushes, and so they continue on foot.

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Speaker 1: The mansion emerges, pulled into their view through a dense thicket,

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Speaker 1: as if by some invisible hand. The first thing that

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Speaker 1: surely strikes them is how huge the places. The flight

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Speaker 1: of steps up to the vast front door are over

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Speaker 1: fifteen feet high. The landing place at the top is

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Speaker 1: a portico about twenty feet high. The dark mahogany doors

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Speaker 1: or at least four inches thick, with huge hinges shaped

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Speaker 1: like sea monsters that appear to be in an endless

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Speaker 1: effort to bite themselves free of their posts, the maids

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Speaker 1: enter and walk through into the main hall, the echoes

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Speaker 1: of their footsteps muffled by dust as they make their

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Speaker 1: way over the once lustrous, dark wooden floors. Despite the

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Speaker 1: daylight playing through the hall, the atmosphere is unquestionably dark

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Speaker 1: and oppressive. The hall, like everything else, is also vast,

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Speaker 1: at forty feet long and lined with brooding portraits. The

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Speaker 1: carved gilded frames are stained and dull, but the paint

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Speaker 1: has maintained its lustra and the faces are still fresh

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Speaker 1: and alive, the hall's sole occupants, keeping watch over their

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Speaker 1: former abode as it crumbles around them. One portrait is

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Speaker 1: of a striking woman dressed all in white with jet

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Speaker 1: black hair, crowned in an orange floral wreath. Though she

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Speaker 1: looks to the maids as though she is dressed as

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Speaker 1: a new bride, there is nothing of the honeymoon happiness

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Speaker 1: in her expression. Her mouth is set, but her eyes

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Speaker 1: seem to follow the maids as they crossed the hall.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to unexplained and I'm Richard McLean Smith. As

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Speaker 1: the maids continue through the mansion, they move first past

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Speaker 1: the downstairs bedrooms. All are equipped lavishly, though their furnishings

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Speaker 1: are dusty and coated in cobwebs and eaten away in

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Speaker 1: patches by many legged things. Moving on through the many

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Speaker 1: other rooms and halls, the maids scratch notes in their

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Speaker 1: small books, recording all the things they need to relay

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Speaker 1: to their employers, the work that will be required, the

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Speaker 1: staff needed, and the furniture that must be bought in

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Speaker 1: order to turn this strange place into a home. When

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Speaker 1: they examined the far wall of a dressing room, the

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Speaker 1: maids notice an entrance to an underground passage. They've heard

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Speaker 1: about this passageway, heard rumors about the dark deeds that

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Speaker 1: happened along it. There are other doors, other halls, banqueting rooms,

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Speaker 1: and a grand staircase that twists up to the second floor.

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Speaker 1: Though the wood is worn and damp, it retains its

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Speaker 1: former splendor. It is said that it was so beautiful

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Speaker 1: that the English Governor General offered five hundred pounds about

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Speaker 1: seventy thousand pounds to day to be taken down and

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Speaker 1: sent to London. As they go, The maids don't leave

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Speaker 1: each other's sight, an instinct perhaps telling them that they're

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Speaker 1: better off sticking together. After all, they've heard all the

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Speaker 1: stories about Rose Hall. Couldn't help, but no notice the

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Speaker 1: way faces darkened on their journey toward it. Whenever they

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Speaker 1: spoke the name of the place, the whispers of murder, torture,

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Speaker 1: and other vile deeds said to have been committed there,

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Speaker 1: and something else too, The so called White Witch, who

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Speaker 1: is said to haunt the property, often supposedly seen galloping

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Speaker 1: across the grounds on a ghostly horse before vanishing into

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Speaker 1: mist and shadow, or appearing at the top of the

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Speaker 1: staircase with a sickening aura of malice. Nonetheless on the

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Speaker 1: maid's continue. The second floor is comprised of eight smaller

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Speaker 1: rooms and suites that sweep across the back length of

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Speaker 1: the house, with a balcony overlooking another portico, and it

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Speaker 1: is to this balcony that one made drifts to take

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Speaker 1: in the stunning view from the back of the house,

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Speaker 1: the favorite view apparently of one of the mansions former residents.

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Speaker 1: The maid is careful where she steps. The balustrades are

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Speaker 1: crumbling like everything else in the house, and the jutting

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Speaker 1: platform beneath her creeks ominously. Perhaps she thinks she'll only

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Speaker 1: stay for a moment, that she'll take in the sight

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Speaker 1: of the estates, now wildly overgrown land, and imagine what

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Speaker 1: it had once been like, when the lawns were trimmed

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Speaker 1: and the trees filled with fruit, and the view to Palmyra,

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Speaker 1: the neighboring plantation that had once been joined with this one.

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Speaker 1: She is indeed only there for a moment. Those that

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Speaker 1: bore witness to the moment the maid tumbled over the

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Speaker 1: balcony to her death spoke of her lurching suddenly, as

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Speaker 1: though she were thrown by an invisible set of hands.

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Speaker 1: There are others who say this story never happened, that

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Speaker 1: the maid and the supposedly haunted house that chiefly concerned

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Speaker 1: today's episode are nothing but legends spun out of Jamaica's

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Speaker 1: violent and brutal colonial history. Perhaps ghost is just the

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Speaker 1: name we give to a lingering horror, the suspicion or

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Speaker 1: dread that is affiliated with a place, a way of

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Speaker 1: articulating the almost tangible manner in which terrible events can

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Speaker 1: linger on in the locusts of where they were perpetrated

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Speaker 1: In a time when record keeping was inaccurate and oral

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Speaker 1: storytelling the main mode of communication. This blending of real

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Speaker 1: happenings with supernatural consequences is what makes the story of

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Speaker 1: the White Witch of Rose Hall so fascinating. Begins with

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Speaker 1: a young girl. Annie Patterson, was ten years old when

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Speaker 1: she moved with her family from England to the land

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Speaker 1: known to some as Sandmang on the western side of

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Speaker 1: the island known today as Haiti. She was born in

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Speaker 1: England in eighteen o two to an English mother and

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Speaker 1: an Irish father, but was almost immediately orphaned in the

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Speaker 1: Caribbean when her parents died from yellow fever. It is

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Speaker 1: said that she was then raised by her nanny, a

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Speaker 1: local Haitian woman who was well practiced in voodoo. It

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Speaker 1: is said that she taught Annie to be skilled in

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Speaker 1: black magic. Two after the death of her nanny, in

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Speaker 1: about eighteen twenty, a seventeen or eighteen year old Annie

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Speaker 1: moved from San Domang to Jamaica in search of a

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Speaker 1: wealthy husband, one of the few routes to a comfortable

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Speaker 1: life that was afforded to women at the time. The

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Speaker 1: search didn't last long, and the following year she supposedly

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Speaker 1: married one John Palmer, owner of Rose Hall. They managed

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Speaker 1: the property together, as well as the connecting power mirror,

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Speaker 1: creating a joined estate that constituted seven thousand acres of

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Speaker 1: sugar plantation land and anywhere between three hundred and two

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Speaker 1: thousand enslaved people. The house and land were worth well

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Speaker 1: over thirty thousand pounds roughly three and a half million

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Speaker 1: in today's purchasing power. Annie was said to often be

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Speaker 1: seen standing on her favorite balcony, overseeing the operations of

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Speaker 1: the plantation, or riding around the estate in what some

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Speaker 1: might call men's clothes. Her legs confidently astride her horn.

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Speaker 1: But monitoring the mechanations of her new home did not

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Speaker 1: amuse her for long, and after some time she began

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Speaker 1: ordering enslaved men into her bed, her abuses growing to

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Speaker 1: such an extent that they could no longer be concealed

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Speaker 1: from her husband. After catching her in the act, he

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Speaker 1: whipped her mercilessly. Now consumed by rage and humiliation, Annie

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Speaker 1: was said to have bowed revenge, and not long after,

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Speaker 1: John Palmer died suddenly and mysteriously. In those days of

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Speaker 1: unidentified fevers and cholera, and very few were diligent in

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Speaker 1: recording the causes of death. Perhaps it was the case

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Speaker 1: that most deaths were sudden and mysterious, but the rumors

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Speaker 1: spread anyway and consumed Rose Hall faster than any disease.

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Speaker 1: Whispers of poison slipped into a mug of coffee, of

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Speaker 1: fatal drugs, rubbed on meat, of unearthly powers sucking the

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Speaker 1: life force from his body. And whispers of a grand

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Speaker 1: inheritance for a young widow who had not born John

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Speaker 1: Palmer a child. And then once Annie became the sole

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Speaker 1: mistress of Rose Hall, her reign of terror truly began.

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Speaker 1: Some say it was her skill in voodoo that incited

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Speaker 1: such dread, but she was fearsome enough without it. She

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Speaker 1: is said to have whipped her enslaved for the slightest misdemeanor,

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Speaker 1: tortured those who disobeyed her, and killed anyone who dared

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Speaker 1: utter the name John Palmer. It was also said that

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Speaker 1: she killed those poor men that she'd forced into her

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Speaker 1: bed in an effort to preserve her virtuous reputation. Stories

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Speaker 1: of her malice and barbarism knew no bounds, and raged

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Speaker 1: from tales of babies born to enslaved women being killed,

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Speaker 1: their bones harvested for dark magic to murmurs of a

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Speaker 1: torture chamber in the basement of the house. It is

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Speaker 1: around this time, according to legend, that Annie Palmer received

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Speaker 1: the sobriquet of the White Witch of rose Hall. Not

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Speaker 1: long after the death of her first husband, Annie is

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Speaker 1: said to have married again. This supposed second husband, according

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Speaker 1: to some, was also an English planter. He too was

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Speaker 1: outraged by Annie's so called adultery. It was said that

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Speaker 1: after an especially heated argument, he was promptly stabbed to death.

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Speaker 1: Those that claimed to have witnessed the dying man's final

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Speaker 1: struggle described the pooling of blood on his shirt, the

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Speaker 1: gurgling sound he made as he scrabbled at his chest,

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Speaker 1: and his frenzied attempts to reach Annie and drag her

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Speaker 1: to the afterworld with him, as he weltered and died

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Speaker 1: at her feet. It is said that Annie then began

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Speaker 1: locking the rooms where her husbands died, hiding the stains

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Speaker 1: of her murders. She was apparently married again relatively soon after,

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Speaker 1: to a man who was described as rude and unlettered,

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Speaker 1: who married her solely for her wealth. He was strangled

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Speaker 1: by one of Annie's enslaved male victims. On Annie's orders,

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Speaker 1: his body, like her previous husband's, was feried through the

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Speaker 1: house to the passageway in the downstairs bedroom, which led

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Speaker 1: out to the sea. Annie's own end was said to

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Speaker 1: have come only a few years later. Her life after

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Speaker 1: her final marriage was described in a pamphlet published in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight as knights spent amid drunken all scenes

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Speaker 1: too disgusting to describe, while her days were spent inflicting

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Speaker 1: the most tyrannical cruelties and dreadful tortures upon her slaves.

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Speaker 1: There were several versions of this part of the story,

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Speaker 1: but they all agree on a few key details. Annie

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Speaker 1: fell in love with a man who was in love

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Speaker 1: with the granddaughter of an Obearman, an enslaved practitioner of

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Speaker 1: Jamaican spirituality. In a jealous rage, Annie killed the obearman's

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Speaker 1: granddaughter in revenge. The o bear Man, with the help

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Speaker 1: of those fellow enslaved who'd suffered so long under Annie's tyranny,

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Speaker 1: entered the Great House one night, Then, moving silently through it,

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Speaker 1: he crept into Annie's chamber and strangled her to death.

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Speaker 1: Annie Palmer's supposed death did not free those she'd terrorized

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Speaker 1: from fear of retribution. Their belief in Annie's voodoo continued

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Speaker 1: to haunt them, as they wondered if she'd use her

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Speaker 1: powers from beyond the grave to exact revenge. So when

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Speaker 1: they buried her, a voodoo ritual was allegedly performed to

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Speaker 1: keep her locked in her tomb, But this ritual was

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Speaker 1: of course not completed, and Annie's wrathful spirit has been

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Speaker 1: free to roam the estate ever since. The earliest record

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Speaker 1: of Annie's story is thought to come from around eighteen thirty.

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Speaker 1: Then Reverend Hope Masterton is thought to have told his

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Speaker 1: parishioners in Montego Bay about a Missus Palmer who was

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Speaker 1: hanged by those enslaved and her plantation. In eighteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 1: the story appeared in print in a pamphlet written by

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Speaker 1: John Costello, which was called Legend of Rosehall Estate in

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Speaker 1: the Parish of Saint James. Here the murders take place

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Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds, and Costello's black widow like villain

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Speaker 1: is in fact named Rosa Palmer, not Annie. This was

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Speaker 1: then seemingly corrected by a series of letters published in

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Speaker 1: eighteen ninety five. Of particular note was a letter from

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Speaker 1: John W. Broderick, who claimed to have been Annie Palmer's

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Speaker 1: overseer as well as the source for Costello's story. He

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Speaker 1: reiterated that it was in fact Annie who was the murderer. However,

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Speaker 1: there was a Rosa Palmer married to a Henry Fanning

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Speaker 1: who bought the estate in seventeen forty two, which at

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Speaker 1: the time was known as true friendship. He married Rosa,

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Speaker 1: then named Kelly, in seventeen forty six, but, much like

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Speaker 1: an hour story, died soon after, leaving the estate to her,

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Speaker 1: which by then he'd renamed rose Hall in honor of

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Speaker 1: his wife. Rosa, too is said to have married many times,

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Speaker 1: culminating in a marriage to one John Palmer, possibly the

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Speaker 1: great uncle of the John Palmer from our story, who

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Speaker 1: at that time was the owner of Palmira, rose Hall's

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Speaker 1: neighboring estate. Rosa's marriage to the senior John brought the

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Speaker 1: two estates together. When Rosa then died in seventeen ninety,

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Speaker 1: John Palmer became the joint owner of both estates. After

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Speaker 1: the older John Palmer's death in seventeen ninety seven, his

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Speaker 1: two estates were eventually passed down to his great nephew,

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Speaker 1: also named John Palmer. In eighteen eighteen, John duly traveled

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Speaker 1: to Jamaica from England to claim the estate, and on

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Speaker 1: the twenty eighth of March eighteen twenty married a woman

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Speaker 1: named Anne Mary Patterson. Are Annie perhaps or perhaps not.

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Speaker 1: Some say Annie Palmer or Annie Patterson was never a

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Speaker 1: real person. Some say she never married again, and at

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Speaker 1: that part of the story is just a repurposing of

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Speaker 1: Rosa Palmer's numerous marriages. Some say she was Jamaican born,

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Speaker 1: some that she came to Jamaica from Sandermang, and some

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Speaker 1: that she came straight from England. There is supposedly a

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Speaker 1: record of a Missus Palmer selling whatever rights you may

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Speaker 1: have had to rose Hall and Palmera dying in eighteen

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Speaker 1: forty six at Bonavista. Bona Vista was owned by the

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Speaker 1: Bernard family, who she'd purportedly sold Rose Hall to. She

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Speaker 1: was allegedly buried in the churchyard at Montego Bay on

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Speaker 1: July ninth. However, there is no tombstone to mark the spot. Skeptics, historians,

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Speaker 1: and believers who argued for centuries about the story of

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Speaker 1: Annie Palmer and the White Witch of rose Hall. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen eleven, the author Joseph Shaw, published his book The

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Speaker 1: True Tale of Rose Hall, telling the story You've just heard,

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Speaker 1: a dreadful tale of voodoo and murder, confirming Annie Palmer

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Speaker 1: as the White Witch. The story gained notoriety in nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty nine when The White Witch of Rose Hall, a

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Speaker 1: historical fiction novel by writer Herbert Delissa, was published. This

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Speaker 1: book further entwines facts and fiction, claiming that the ob

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Speaker 1: a man who apparently finished her off, was named Takou,

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Speaker 1: his granddaughter was Millicent, and the man after whom Annie

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Speaker 1: lost it was a bookkeeper called Robert Rutherford. Over the years,

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Speaker 1: the story has taken on a life of its shifting

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Speaker 1: and evolving into something beyond the binaries of fact and fiction.

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Speaker 1: What remains most curious is that with each attempt to

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Speaker 1: poke holes in the tale seems to come a tighter

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Speaker 1: clinging to the legend as a history. There are many

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Speaker 1: reasons that this might be the case, multitudes that contribute

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Speaker 1: to The White Witch of Rose Hall being heralded today

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Speaker 1: as Jamaica's most famous and lasting ghost story. This story

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00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: climbed to its current popularity in the wake of the

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Speaker 1: abolishment of slavery in the Caribbean in eighteen o eight

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Speaker 1: and emancipation in eighteen thirty eight. It's been speculated that

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Speaker 1: it was freely perpetuated by the white postcolonial settler society

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Speaker 1: in an effort to maintain a facade of civility, enabling

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Speaker 1: them to obscure their own links to the past under

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Speaker 1: the supposedly devilish and demonic deeds of one most likely fictitious.

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Speaker 1: The misogynistic fear of a female plantation owner and female

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00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: sexuality are also clearly evident, disregarding the biases of whoever

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Speaker 1: tells the story. Regardless of whether or not a barbaric

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Speaker 1: Anni Palmer ever truly existed, there are many similar real

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Speaker 1: tales scattered throughout the violent pages of colonial history. It

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Speaker 1: must be noted that it doesn't require an explicitly violent

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Speaker 1: or brutal act to be perpetrated against an enslaved individual

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00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: to constitute an act of barbarity. In that context, owning

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Speaker 1: an individual is a barbaric act in itself. There is

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Speaker 1: no such thing as a benign slave owner, but there

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Speaker 1: are certainly those who are more barbaric than others. For

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00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: possible inspiration of Annie Palmer's story, we need look no

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Speaker 1: further than Delphine Lelori, who lived in New Orleans in

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Speaker 1: the early eighteen hundreds. Like the supposed Palmer, Delphine Lelori

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Speaker 1: was also married numerous times. Though never implicated in the

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00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: deaths of her husband's she was said to have maintained

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Speaker 1: an outward appearance of dutiful care towards her enslaved in public.

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Speaker 1: Behind closed doors, however, lurked unimaginable horrors. Four years of

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Speaker 1: funeral registers from eighteen thirty to eighteen thirty four showed

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Speaker 1: that at least twelve enslaved people died at her mansion

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Speaker 1: on Royal Street in New Orleans. There is no cause

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Speaker 1: of death listed, and so diseases cannot be ruled out,

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Speaker 1: but the benefit of hindsight suggests otherwise. Twelve deaths include Bond,

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Speaker 1: a cook and laundress, and her four children, Juliette aged thirteen,

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Speaker 1: Florence aged ten, Duels aged six, and Leontine aged four.

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Speaker 1: One eight year old girl named Lea, enslaved by Delphine,

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Speaker 1: was witnessed falling to her death from the roof of

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Speaker 1: Delphine's mansion while trying to avoid being whipped. Then, on

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Speaker 1: April tenth, eighteen thirty four, a fire broke out. The

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Speaker 1: fire was started by the seventy year old cook, who,

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Speaker 1: having been chained to the stove, had attempted to take

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Speaker 1: her own life. After being resisted by Lelori and her

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00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: then husband, doctor Leonard Louis Nicholas, a group of local

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Speaker 1: residents finally succeeded in breaking down the doors of their mansion.

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Speaker 1: Inside they found at least seven people black men and women,

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Speaker 1: who had been tortured and horribly mutilated, having been imprisoned

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Speaker 1: in iron collars and suspended from the ceiling. They'd been

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Speaker 1: kept in there for many months. Two died not long

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Speaker 1: after their rescue. The house was later destroyed by another

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Speaker 1: group of residents, but has since been rebuilt. Thet Lorry

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Speaker 1: Mansion is known today as one of the most haunted

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Speaker 1: houses in New Orleans. For almost two centuries, locals have

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Speaker 1: spoken of paranormal activity at the Lo Lorri Mansion, tales

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Speaker 1: of moans from the room where enslaved people were often kept,

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Speaker 1: tour guides feeling tugs on their bags and taps on

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Speaker 1: their shoulders. It's even been speculated that the brutal murder

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Speaker 1: of a tenant who lived there in the eighteen nineties

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Speaker 1: was in fact caused by demonic spirit trapped in the house.

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Speaker 1: Similar stories also plague Rose Hall. There have been numerous

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Speaker 1: apparent sightings of Annie Palmer stridently riding her horse around

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Speaker 1: the grounds. Some say they have seen her on the

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Speaker 1: balcony gazing imperiously out over her former home. Others tell

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Speaker 1: of pictures inside with moving eyes, disembodied voices drifting down corridors,

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Speaker 1: the crying of babies, and strange activity around a mirror

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00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: in what was once Annie's bedroom, a ghostly reflection or smudges,

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Speaker 1: and photographs taken nearby. During renovations in the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: it is said that builders and laborers reputedly had such

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Speaker 1: a disquieting time that many of the local workforce subsconded,

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00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 1: tools went missing, voices called their names, and one account

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Speaker 1: tells of old bloodstains discovered on a newly finished floor.

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Speaker 1: The truth of it all is a murky matter. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: Annie never existed, Perhaps she did but led a relatively

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Speaker 1: blameless life, retiring somewhere obscure after the heartbreak of being

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Speaker 1: widowed so many times. Or perhaps she really was the murderous,

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Speaker 1: sadistic white witch of local legend. The facts, in some

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Speaker 1: ways are unimportant. What she symbolizes, the most atrocious aspects

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Speaker 1: of colonial history and slave ownership cannot be erased. For

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Speaker 1: although there are some who prefer not to dig up

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Speaker 1: the past or to dwell on the wrongdoings of those

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Speaker 1: who have come before us, there are some events so

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Speaker 1: horrifying that they will never be silenced. Whether Annie part

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00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: is real or not, the horrors of which he is

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00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: accused speak to a brutal and violent reality, and so

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Speaker 1: in the memory held by Jamaican Land, whether we like

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Speaker 1: it or not, the White Witch of Rose Hall will

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Speaker 1: continue to ride on. This episode was written by Ella

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Speaker 1: McLoud and produced by Richard McLain Smith. Unexplained is an

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Speaker 1: Avy Club Productions podcast created by Richard mclin Smith. All

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00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: other elements of the podcast, including the music, are also

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00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: produced by me Richard mclin Smith. Unexplained. The book and audiobook,

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Speaker 1: with stories never before featured on the show, is now

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00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: available to buy worldwide. You can purchase from Amazon, Barnes

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Speaker 1: and Noble, Waterstones and other bookstores. Please subscribe to and

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Speaker 1: rate the show wherever you get your podcast, and feel

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00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: free to get in touch with any thoughts or ideas

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Speaker 1: regarding the stories you've heard on the show. Perhaps you

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Speaker 1: have an explanation of your own you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: You can find out more at Unexplained podcast dot com

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