Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok app Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Long Island Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: this has been an extraordinary year for workers' rights, for
Speaker 1: labor organizing, for recognizing that the people right then ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent are not being paid their just dues, are
Speaker 1: not essentially being reimbursed for their labor, energy, work, all
Speaker 1: of these things, and in recognizing this right it began
Speaker 1: this kind of movement over the last year began with
Speaker 1: the strike in Hollywood, with the actors and the writers
Speaker 1: uniting and deciding to hold over one hundred and eighteen
Speaker 1: days in terms of the Actors' union to strike. Right
Speaker 1: as we are seeing AI being developed to replace human
Speaker 1: creativity and talent, as we are seeing just how greedy
Speaker 1: the heads of these networks and streaming services are, that
Speaker 1: people have been cut out. The people have just been
Speaker 1: cut out of their opportunity to be able to earn
Speaker 1: not just a decent living. Because I think, folks, that
Speaker 1: it's important for us to recognize that language is important.
Speaker 1: We don't want just a decent living, a decent life,
Speaker 1: We want a good life and a good living, one
Speaker 1: that we see value and dignity right in the work
Speaker 1: that we do, and we receive the respect and dignity
Speaker 1: and compensation for the work that we are doing. That
Speaker 1: it isn't you know what we've seen and what we've
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to really unpack over the last couple
Speaker 1: of years, those of us that were privileged to be
Speaker 1: inside during the height of the COVID nineteen pandemic and
Speaker 1: recognize that the ways that we have been socialized to
Speaker 1: work right don't make sense. But living hand to mouth
Speaker 1: and paycheck to paycheck has just been the way. And
Speaker 1: what these strikes have informed for us is that greed
Speaker 1: has no bounds, has no bottoms, and left unchecked, will
Speaker 1: just eat us all alive. So in today's conversation, I
Speaker 1: was so happy to be able to get the multi
Speaker 1: hyphen it talented writer, director, comedian, author Francesca Ramsey to
Speaker 1: join Woke af again, and as we were preparing for
Speaker 1: this interview, it seemed and now we know for certain
Speaker 1: that the deal was struck with the Actors' Union to
Speaker 1: be able to after one hundred and eighteen days, get
Speaker 1: back to work and doing so with a thriving wage
Speaker 1: right and a deal that makes sense for the next
Speaker 1: three years. That also builds in right ideas about the
Speaker 1: future and the future use of AI in Hollywood. And
Speaker 1: this conversation was just so rich in terms of really understanding,
Speaker 1: and I think that a lot of us recognize that
Speaker 1: what we see in terms of the glitz and the
Speaker 1: glam and the red carpets and the uber wealth that
Speaker 1: surrounds some actors and writers in Hollywood is not the
Speaker 1: fucking norm. That most people, the majority that actually help
Speaker 1: this machine known as Hollywood run, make very little money,
Speaker 1: hold down multiple jobs in order to be able to
Speaker 1: put food on the table and pursue their passions. That
Speaker 1: just because you enjoy what it is that you do
Speaker 1: doesn't make it not work and doesn't mean that you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be compensated for it. But I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of us came to really understand what it means
Speaker 1: to work in this industry that, let us be very clear,
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have been able to get through the pandemic
Speaker 1: without the ability to, you know, lose ourselves in content
Speaker 1: creation of other peoples, lose ourself in imaginary worlds, to
Speaker 1: be able to deal with what was happening outside of
Speaker 1: our doors. Without those streaming giants, right, but recognizing that
Speaker 1: the people that created that content weren't being compensated while
Speaker 1: we were streaming, you know, millions of hours. So I
Speaker 1: really love this conversation with Francesca Ramsey because it puts
Speaker 1: into context a lot of what we don't know and
Speaker 1: a lot of the reasons why things are left to
Speaker 1: be murky, and the clarification and the strategies that were
Speaker 1: used in order to get these actors and the writers
Speaker 1: the deals that they deserve. So that conversation with Francesca
Speaker 1: Ramsey is coming up next, folks. I am so very
Speaker 1: excited to welcome to WOKF Daily Francesco Ramsey, who is
Speaker 1: a comedian, a writer, a content creator, an activist, YouTube star,
Speaker 1: and author of the book Well That Escalated Quickly Memoirs
Speaker 1: and Mistakes of an Accidental activist to come to WOKAF
Speaker 1: I am just like beyond one. But also I have
Speaker 1: been following your social media since the strike began.
Speaker 2: I know, and now here we are, and here we
Speaker 2: are eighteen days of the actor's strike, which is pretty wild.
Speaker 1: And this is historic in the length. It is historic
Speaker 1: in the unification between the writers and the actors' unions.
Speaker 1: To come together. Just give us. You know, I feel
Speaker 1: like what I learned, and I want you to be
Speaker 1: able to explain it to the listeners what I learned
Speaker 1: during this time. It kind of broke open this bubble
Speaker 1: concept of what it means to work in Hollywood, right,
Speaker 1: and this assumption that everybody is making a brain and
Speaker 1: everybody has you know, bookoo dollars and all is good
Speaker 1: over there. So why do we care about these folks
Speaker 1: not getting their fair shape when they get seemingly everything
Speaker 1: red carpets, the glitz, the glam. So just talk to
Speaker 1: us about these one hundred plus days and the reason
Speaker 1: to enter into this strike, and why folks stood strong,
Speaker 1: why you stood strong for so long.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for that incredible introduction. You know, I
Speaker 2: will call myself out and say that I also naively
Speaker 2: thought I would be making bookou dollars. Otherwise I would
Speaker 2: have been using my graphic design degree. I could have
Speaker 2: a corporate job with regular health insurance there. But you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted to chase my dreams. And I think a
Speaker 2: lot of us, whether you are a writer or you
Speaker 2: are an actor, we got into this industry for the
Speaker 2: love of it. Of course, having money is a benefit
Speaker 2: to any career that you're in. But the reality is
Speaker 2: we have created an industry that over time has become unsustainable,
Speaker 2: largely due to streaming. The model that was created with
Speaker 2: network television and residuals, which are essentially like commission payments,
Speaker 2: where if you appear in a program or you've written
Speaker 2: an episode of television, you share in the profits when
Speaker 2: that show is successful because of advertising. But the streaming model,
Speaker 2: because you don't have ads on streaming, has really changed
Speaker 2: the game for writers and actors. And we knew that
Speaker 2: a potential strike was eminent. Our contract with the studios
Speaker 2: comes up for renegotiation every three years, and the last
Speaker 2: time that we would have been negotiating with twenty twenty
Speaker 2: and as we remember, the pandemic, which is still here,
Speaker 2: it hasn't gone away, was new, and everything shut down
Speaker 2: in order to keep folks safe, and so we did
Speaker 2: not have the leverage that we needed in order to strike.
Speaker 2: So then cut to twenty twenty three, and ahead of
Speaker 2: the writer's contract ending in May and the actors contract
Speaker 2: ending in June, we were hoping that we could come
Speaker 2: to an agreement with the studios. Nobody wanted to strike.
Speaker 2: I would have loved to have worked all year. I
Speaker 2: didn't work most of the year, So there were just
Speaker 2: so many things on the table that we knew that
Speaker 2: needed to be solidified in order to secure the future
Speaker 2: of our industry, especially regarding residuals and protections with AI.
Speaker 2: And while we don't have all the details of the
Speaker 2: actors agreement, I'm really confident because we held out for
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighteen days not to settle for a
Speaker 2: piss poor deal. So shout out to our negotiating committee.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people don't realize that those
Speaker 2: are unpaid positions, our actors who are dedicating their time,
Speaker 2: who are coming out from you know, maybe they don't
Speaker 2: live in LA A lot of actors don't live here
Speaker 2: year round, being away from their family, working on the weekends,
Speaker 2: being on the picket lines every single day for hours,
Speaker 2: in order to secure a fair contract for us and
Speaker 2: make sure that the work that we put in day
Speaker 2: in and day out is valued. And we know it's
Speaker 2: valuable because it's making the studios billions of dollars and
Speaker 2: we're just asking for a portion of the profits.
Speaker 1: I think that that was probably one of the most
Speaker 1: unsettling things, like First of all, when we go back
Speaker 1: to thinking about twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, for those
Speaker 1: of us that were privileged to be inside of our homes,
Speaker 1: what were we doing. We were streaming content right like
Speaker 1: we were sitting and trying to escape the reality that
Speaker 1: we were in and being able to fall into series
Speaker 1: and shows and movies and what have the And the
Speaker 1: entire time that I was sitting on Mike couch behind me,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, great for these people that are making what
Speaker 1: I thought were the royalties of these shows. Because I'm
Speaker 1: functioning in my twentieth century mindset of you are on
Speaker 1: a hit show or you make a hit thing, and
Speaker 1: then you know you're making money into puts to do it.
Speaker 2: Everyone was thinking, and you're so right that we kind
Speaker 2: of lifted the curtain in this moment because there were
Speaker 2: tons of actors from hit shows across all different streaming
Speaker 2: platforms that were showing their residual checks, and sometimes there
Speaker 2: were thirty five cents. Sometimes they were negative because supposedly
Speaker 2: if the studio quote unquote overpaid you one time, they'd say, okay,
Speaker 2: well actually we overpaid you two dollars, so now this
Speaker 2: check is for negative two dollars just just mind blowing,
Speaker 2: especially when these are shows that are getting huge a
Speaker 2: war and we're getting tons of people, you know, seeing
Speaker 2: themselves in these stories. And I think ultimately that is
Speaker 2: the thing that was really disheartening, was the fact that
Speaker 2: people were putting so much of themselves into this work
Speaker 2: and not being compensated fairly when the reality is, like
Speaker 2: you were saying, people are watching these shows and connecting
Speaker 2: with these characters and feeling affirmed and seen and comforted
Speaker 2: and are laughing and are crying and are you know,
Speaker 2: having their minds expanded in these incredible ways. And unfortunately
Speaker 2: the studios were like, eh, but you know whatever, this
Speaker 2: is not a big of a deal. You don't deserve
Speaker 2: more than what you're getting. And I think it's a
Speaker 2: symptomatic of a consistent devaluing of the arts, not just
Speaker 2: for actors and writers, but musicians and visual artists and dancers.
Speaker 2: See a lot of people saying, well, you know, it's
Speaker 2: you're lucky to be able to do that for a living,
Speaker 2: And the reality is work is work.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you enjoy it right or you
Speaker 1: happen to be, you know, brilliant at it, it's still work.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I think that.
Speaker 1: You know, Also, what I learned during this time is
Speaker 1: that how these deals are kind of structured. So I
Speaker 1: want to give you an opportunity to kind of speak
Speaker 1: to that, not the deal that was reached, but how
Speaker 1: these streaming entities are able to make billions upon billions
Speaker 1: of dollars. Where it is they're creating licensing deals with
Speaker 1: the with you know, network television, You as a content creator,
Speaker 1: you as an actor, are making a deal with let's
Speaker 1: say it is NBC Universal, right, and at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, NBC Universal is then tapped by let's
Speaker 1: say a Netflix we would like to buy said show.
Speaker 1: It is a licensing deal that they are making, which
Speaker 1: is outside of the all of the royalties, outside of
Speaker 1: these things. And so if you don't, what I hope
Speaker 1: for all of you as we get into and understand
Speaker 1: what was signed and is what is going to be given,
Speaker 1: is that it was all of these carve outs in
Speaker 1: all of these ways to separate people from their ability
Speaker 1: to make profit off of their work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just not fair. Yeah. No. The thing is
Speaker 2: I had a lot of people say, well, like, why
Speaker 2: weren't these things in the contract before? And the reality
Speaker 2: is there were certain things that we couldn't account for, right,
Speaker 2: So when we negotiated certain things, including residuals in the
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven strike, that was one of our
Speaker 2: big things. One of the one of the cornerstones of
Speaker 2: that strike was online media. Okay, this was early days
Speaker 2: of internet. YouTube was pretty new at that time, and
Speaker 2: we had sent to st videos. I was not a
Speaker 2: member of the union yet, I was still in college,
Speaker 2: but at that time we said to the studios, we
Speaker 2: want to make sure that if our work is on
Speaker 2: the Internet that we receive compensation. And the studios were like,
Speaker 2: don't worry about it. Is that a big deal. So
Speaker 2: not that we didn't account for it. We fought for
Speaker 2: those residuals, but we could have never anticipated where we
Speaker 2: would be with streaming content fifteen years later. Right. And
Speaker 2: so similarly, when it comes to AI protections. While AI
Speaker 2: is very powerful right now and it has its limitations,
Speaker 2: in three to five years AI is going to be
Speaker 2: very different. So even in twenty twenty, if we had
Speaker 2: been able to negotiate our deal, there's no telling what
Speaker 2: we would have been asking for. Because the technology, I mean,
Speaker 2: you've watched it get faster every day, it was like,
Speaker 2: AI can't do hands, and then a month later you're like, well,
Speaker 2: it's getting better hands now. So we were putting certain
Speaker 2: things in the contract based on the landscape and what
Speaker 2: we project could could be down the pipeline for us.
Speaker 2: And the reality is when corporations want to take advantage
Speaker 2: of their employees, they're going to figure out ways to
Speaker 2: do it. And it's not our job to think of
Speaker 2: all the ways that you could screw us over. And
Speaker 2: so unfortunately, there were certain things that we had just
Speaker 2: not anticipated. For example, taking a series regular actors and
Speaker 2: demoting them down to guest stars. That's something that we
Speaker 2: hadn't seen happen before, where someone would think, well, I
Speaker 2: am a series regular on the show. This means I'm
Speaker 2: going to be able to pay my health insurance, make
Speaker 2: enough money to you know, maybe buy a house or
Speaker 2: take care of my rent. And then the network just decides,
Speaker 2: you know what, We're actually going to demote you. You're
Speaker 2: in the same amount of episodes, you're in the same
Speaker 2: amount of scenes, You're just going to get paid less. Well,
Speaker 2: that's not something that we anticipated was going to happen, right,
Speaker 2: So again, thank goodness that we have negotiating committees for
Speaker 2: both unions that include members who are not just representing
Speaker 2: us as leadership, but they are doing the work. They
Speaker 2: are actors on your favorite shows. They are writers, they
Speaker 2: are showrunners. They know the realities of how many writers
Speaker 2: we need in a room, what it looks like to
Speaker 2: have equity for makeup and hairstylist. Right. You know what
Speaker 2: it's like to show up to set and they don't
Speaker 2: have your makeup shape, Oh gosh. They know what it's
Speaker 2: like to get an audition at the eleventh hour and
Speaker 2: it's ten scenes and you got to do it by tomorrow. Right.
Speaker 2: So these are things that we asked for, were significant
Speaker 2: asks that our membership said, this is what we need.
Speaker 2: And so again I'm so thankful that we held out
Speaker 2: for a deal that's going to reflect the needs of
Speaker 2: our membership and most importantly, secure the future of new
Speaker 2: writers and new actors who want to join this industry
Speaker 2: and don't have, you know, a mom and dad that
Speaker 2: can fund their dreams. We want to make sure that
Speaker 2: if you get that opportunity of a lifetime, that doors
Speaker 2: are going to open for you and you're going to
Speaker 2: be able to live the life that you've earned. In
Speaker 2: this incredible industry.
Speaker 1: You know, I just I wonder too your thoughts about,
Speaker 1: you know, how powerful unions actually are. You know, I
Speaker 1: think that there was a time when unions were really huge, right,
Speaker 1: and then eighties nineties they were diminished. They were made
Speaker 1: to be, you know, the devil. Oh we're going to stop,
Speaker 1: you know, productivity and people need to work, and unions are,
Speaker 1: you know, are the problem. We're seeing a resurgence now
Speaker 1: across industries of workers really understanding their rights and understanding
Speaker 1: their power. How do you think that this will continue
Speaker 1: to create momentum and also expand opportunities, like you were saying,
Speaker 1: for people to be able to choose the different types
Speaker 1: of industries that they want to be a part of,
Speaker 1: but know that they'll be protected.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad to hear you say that, because
Speaker 2: it does feel like there's been a genormous cultural shift
Speaker 2: in the understanding of collective bargaining. And I made so
Speaker 2: much content explaining how the union protects us as writers
Speaker 2: and actors and how they advocate for us, and I
Speaker 2: got so many comments from people that would say, man,
Speaker 2: everything I've thought about unions is wrong, and I would
Speaker 2: always counter with, well, who told you those things. Whose
Speaker 2: best interest is it to make you believe that unionizing
Speaker 2: is not in your best interests? Who benefits when you
Speaker 2: don't know how much your coworker is making. Who benefits
Speaker 2: the billionaire CEOs, That's who's benefiting. And so I did
Speaker 2: see unfortunately, you know that crabs and a barrel mentality.
Speaker 2: It was not just exclusive to our strikes. You saw
Speaker 2: it when UPS was potentially going on strike. People were
Speaker 2: saying they don't deserve an hourly wage, a higher bump.
Speaker 2: They just deliver packages. The people at Amazon they don't deserve.
Speaker 2: I mean this idea of well, if that person's getting more,
Speaker 2: what does it mean about me? I should be getting more,
Speaker 2: which I remind people you're correct, yeah, right, Also you
Speaker 2: should also be getting more. Right, A lot of people
Speaker 2: will teachers aren't getting enough, and nurses, I agree, all
Speaker 2: of those people should get more. And so to your
Speaker 2: question about collective bargaining and unionization, I really hope that
Speaker 2: what people take away from this moment, despite all of
Speaker 2: the challenges, despite the length of this strike, it's that
Speaker 2: when we work together, we can win. And the reality
Speaker 2: is things like AI are not going to just impact
Speaker 2: film and TV I can't go to the frequently asked
Speaker 2: questions on a website. I need to talk to a
Speaker 2: customer service person. It's AI is I can't even talk
Speaker 2: to a regular representative. Right. When you need a secretary,
Speaker 2: you call and you need to make an appointment. They're
Speaker 2: using AI secretaries, right. So the reality is if you
Speaker 2: were looking at this strike and thinking, oh God, these
Speaker 2: people make so much money and they don't need anything,
Speaker 2: and I'm struggling to make ends meet, I counter her
Speaker 2: and say, you should also be able to afford to
Speaker 2: live in the city that you work in. You should
Speaker 2: also have healthcare. You should not have to work seven
Speaker 2: days a week all times. You shouldn't have to have five,
Speaker 2: you know, multiple jobs, drive an uber, you know, doing uh,
Speaker 2: all these different like little task.
Speaker 1: Grant it you shouldn't have to do.
Speaker 2: You shouldn't have to do dozens of gigs in order
Speaker 2: to make ends meet. You shouldn't. And unfortunately the industry
Speaker 2: was trending that way for film and TV that it
Speaker 2: was turning our jobs into gig type jobs and it's
Speaker 2: just not fair. So my hope is that this is
Speaker 2: in inspiring people to talk to their coworkers, to talk
Speaker 2: to their friends and family about the realities of making
Speaker 2: an honest living and being able to take care of
Speaker 2: your family and buy groceries and put gas in your car.
Speaker 2: The reality is the cost of living has gone up
Speaker 2: and wages have not, and they should be reflecting that.
Speaker 2: And the way that we get there is by working
Speaker 2: together and demanding better. You know.
Speaker 1: Last question for you, Francesca, and I'm just so grateful
Speaker 1: for your time, is you know, we listen to some
Speaker 1: of these CEOs of these studios and these networks, it
Speaker 1: sounded sometimes like we were listening to a bond villain. Right,
Speaker 1: let them go bankrupt, let them eat cake, let them
Speaker 1: lose their homes. What do you think you know that
Speaker 1: the energy, you know, will be when everybody is now
Speaker 1: hopefully returning in the next you know, in the in
Speaker 1: the next week, in the next you know, couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: When when you really did hear in interviews these multi
Speaker 1: i mean billionaires, millionaires saying some of the most vile
Speaker 1: things about people who make less than you know six
Speaker 1: I think I heard that the average writer again just
Speaker 1: to burst the bubble, is making like less than sixty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year. Right, doesn't have health insurance doesn't
Speaker 1: have these things. What is that going to experience you
Speaker 1: think going to be like, Well, the.
Speaker 2: Reality is there are so many people that make up
Speaker 2: these companies. You know, you've got those CEOs up at
Speaker 2: the top, but you also have a lot of network
Speaker 2: executives who people that I've worked with, people that I'm
Speaker 2: friends with, people that I went to college with, people
Speaker 2: that I grew up with, that are also creative folks
Speaker 2: that work on the corporate side, and those people wanted
Speaker 2: to get back to work. Those are the people that
Speaker 2: are like, I think you should be paid more. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: I don't have a direct line to Bob Iiger. I
Speaker 2: can't decide what's going on. And so while it is
Speaker 2: going to be a tumultuous road back to work, because
Speaker 2: it's not happening tomorrow, we're at the end of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three. The year is already winding down. I am
Speaker 2: optimistic that when we do get back to work, the
Speaker 2: people that work on the corporate side, the executives, are
Speaker 2: going to be excited and ready to support us because
Speaker 2: they haven't been able to work either. They've been sitting
Speaker 2: on their hands waiting for the strict to end. Also,
Speaker 2: it's really those people at the top who are unfortunately
Speaker 2: very disconnected from the realities of what it means to
Speaker 2: be a working actor and a working writer. All Angelina
Speaker 2: Jolie's status and shout out to her because she was
Speaker 2: still supporting us. Right, It's like, I do very well
Speaker 2: for myself, and I still believe that those at the
Speaker 2: you know, the under the line actors who are under that,
Speaker 2: you know, the top people on the call sheet, they
Speaker 2: deserve to make an honest and sustainable living as well.
Speaker 2: So you know, I still have a side eye for
Speaker 2: those major CEOs, but thankfully I won't be working with them.
Speaker 2: I've had some really incredible execs over the course of
Speaker 2: my career who are champions for us. You know, they're saying, look,
Speaker 2: I want the show to go. I have to go
Speaker 2: take this up to my boss and they have to
Speaker 2: make the decision. So my hope is that after this
Speaker 2: lengthy time, our appetites will be ready to get back
Speaker 2: to work, and thankfully we will have two incredible contracts
Speaker 2: that not only help us get back to work, but
Speaker 2: make sure that our work is well compensated and protected.
Speaker 1: France Atska, thank you so much. Thank you for using
Speaker 1: your platform to continue to like not only entertain, but inform,
Speaker 1: inform and form people so that they can be in
Speaker 1: solidarity and find ways to be in solidarity because we
Speaker 1: benefit so much from entertainment. I couldn't I couldn't think
Speaker 1: about what it would have been like to go through
Speaker 1: the kind of trauma of the last three years without
Speaker 1: being able, you know, to have the privilege to zone
Speaker 1: out on creative work, on beauty, on finding joy, on
Speaker 1: all of these things. So really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: So much, and I reflect that back to you as well,
Speaker 2: like you use your platform in such an incredible way
Speaker 2: to educate and uplift people. And I'm so glad that I,
Speaker 2: you know, can be a little family member of the
Speaker 2: show and be able to come back a second time,
Speaker 2: which is very delightful. So thank you so much. I
Speaker 2: really appreciate you sharing space with me and supporting the
Speaker 2: strike and supporting our efforts. It really means a lot.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke
Speaker 1: a f as always, Power to the people and to
Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.