Speaker 1: Look may oh, I see you my own and look
Speaker 1: over there is that culture. Yes, goodness, wow, lost cult
Speaker 1: dang lost culturistas calling. I want to wish my sister
Speaker 1: Mount Rogers a happy thirty fifth birthday.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And you know, I wanted one
Speaker 2: thing for my birthday and it was for us to match.
Speaker 2: So we're wearing these gorgeous knits. I don't think I've
Speaker 2: really sat down and looked at and felt the quality
Speaker 2: beautiful garment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good. It's a nice garment. Now, just
Speaker 1: PI because we're numerology experts. Now we've really discussed number. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thirty five feels like the right age for you. Sturdy,
Speaker 1: you think, yes, I'm meant to be thirty five. I
Speaker 1: think thirty five looks good on you, and I think
Speaker 1: thirty five Matt Rodgers at thirty five. Like I will
Speaker 1: always say this, The name Matt Rogers so nice. You
Speaker 1: like that, it's a great classic you like you like
Speaker 1: that it's a great classic name. And there's something about
Speaker 1: Matt Rogers that translates in some essential way to the
Speaker 1: number thirty five. It's like, it's good. You know what.
Speaker 2: Recently I was watching a YouTube BTS video with the
Speaker 2: stars of White Lotus Michelle Monaghan, Yes, Leslie Bibb, and
Speaker 2: Carrie and they were asking each other what age would
Speaker 2: you be if you could pick any age, And when
Speaker 2: you know what, they all said, thirty five. They all said,
Speaker 2: I would be the exact agim right now. That would
Speaker 2: be the exact agim right now. And they were all
Speaker 2: so gloriously being actresses to each other. And I absolutely
Speaker 2: love and worship each and every one of them.
Speaker 1: Those are three great actors.
Speaker 2: But it was just so funny because they were like,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't change a thing, I'd be the agim right now.
Speaker 1: And I agree. I would love to give thirty another go.
Speaker 1: You would, well, that was twenty thirty was stolen from us.
Speaker 1: Thirty was stolen from us in twenty twenty. I would
Speaker 1: love to just have that year of thirty now, you know,
Speaker 1: like which It's fine. I feel like this is us
Speaker 1: in our thirties is an extended obviously sort of like
Speaker 1: extrapolation of that feeling.
Speaker 2: You could always be one of the Hollywood legends that
Speaker 2: lies about their age. Okay, okay, now, by the way,
Speaker 2: do you know why you like Matt Rogers?
Speaker 1: Why? And why I love bow and yang. No, a
Speaker 1: three syllables, three syllable name, and that's actually apropos. Yes,
Speaker 1: we've got a three.
Speaker 2: Syllable name legend, three syllable legend. By the way, thank
Speaker 2: you for some happy birthday to me. I'm so happy
Speaker 2: we're in matching looks. Not just because I wanted us
Speaker 2: to be in for my birthday, but we.
Speaker 1: Took new photos for the podcast. Kiss this one. Goodbye, yes, goodbye.
Speaker 1: Even though this is iconic, and can we just say
Speaker 1: this has done us so well. I like that my
Speaker 1: pores are visible. I really do. I'm not I'm not joking. Transparency,
Speaker 1: it's transparency culture. We did not expect this to be
Speaker 1: the one. This was so good, This was a good one.
Speaker 1: I'll miss this one a lot. I'll miss this a lot.
Speaker 1: But you know what, we had had its moment and
Speaker 1: had its moment, and like the first half of my thirties,
Speaker 1: we're turning over a new leaf. We are officially a
Speaker 1: nine year old podcast. Yes, the podcast, this is the
Speaker 1: podcast is nine years March twenty sixteen, as we started.
Speaker 1: Now it's March twenty twenty five. It sure is. And
Speaker 1: who better to help us ring in this ninth year
Speaker 1: of our lives. I'm very excited with our three syllable guests. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So basically this person is this is how I met
Speaker 1: this person on a zoom audition for the show No
Speaker 1: Good Deed, I'm an amazing show I wish she created.
Speaker 2: And I was in my bathroom in New York because
Speaker 2: it was the only place I could get good lighting.
Speaker 2: So I put the zoom, I opened the zoom, put
Speaker 2: the computer laptop on the top of my toilet.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: This was in Long Island City, Yes, yes, And I
Speaker 2: was like, I hope I can make this in some
Speaker 2: way charming. Did the zoom audition and spoiler alert for
Speaker 2: the show, I do a lot of cocaine in the show.
Speaker 2: So I'm in my own bathroom like minding cocaine, just
Speaker 2: like off off the shitter.
Speaker 1: Literally, look every time. You don't know this.
Speaker 2: Every time in that audition I went down to go
Speaker 2: like Mayma line of coke snort. I was staring into
Speaker 2: my toilet hole. That's pretty good my toilet hole.
Speaker 3: First of all, let's not putell, that's the first time
Speaker 3: you've ever done that.
Speaker 1: Okay, more to come in this episode for that.
Speaker 2: For that also created Dead to Me's a new podcast
Speaker 2: with a friend of the show, Justice Claim. We're going
Speaker 2: to talk all about and truly lovely to have her here. Please,
Speaker 2: welcome to yours my friend.
Speaker 1: Let's oh my.
Speaker 4: God, thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1: Well, it's what are your birthday wishes for our friend? Man?
Speaker 4: Talk to me and I wish I knew it was
Speaker 4: your birthday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that I would have come with some sort
Speaker 3: of gift and or a matching sweater.
Speaker 2: Your presence is a gift. I love what you are wearing.
Speaker 2: It's a vibrant green Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Kelly Green. Kelly Green, Kelly Green.
Speaker 4: She's giving Kermit Ermit?
Speaker 1: Yeah, who's the best muppet?
Speaker 4: Wow? Fuck Y Fazzy Bear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the right answer. Well, because I love funny guy.
Speaker 1: He's sweet too.
Speaker 4: He's sweet.
Speaker 3: And also for some reason, my daughter loves Fazzy Bear
Speaker 3: and says Waka Walka.
Speaker 1: So what do you think it is about Waka walk
Speaker 1: that she latched onto? Is she does? She have the
Speaker 1: comedy bug?
Speaker 4: She has the comedy bug? She does?
Speaker 3: Can I tell you that yesterday in the car I
Speaker 3: picted her up from school, gave her a snack, wasn't enough.
Speaker 3: She was still hungry. And I said, what are you
Speaker 3: hungry for? She said, hungry for boogers? Oh, and she
Speaker 3: knew she was making a joke. I laughed so hard
Speaker 3: that I've only, you know, validated that you know, boogers
Speaker 3: are funny.
Speaker 1: There's something about she just knows how it hits the ear.
Speaker 1: Not to say bogers, which would have been funny, but
Speaker 1: hungry for I'm.
Speaker 3: Hungry for Bookers. I think it is really a strong,
Speaker 3: strong statement.
Speaker 1: What are you hungry for? I'm hungry, I'm hungry. She's
Speaker 1: the next air, She's the next air. Sherman can be
Speaker 1: so lucky, I think luck. Wow.
Speaker 4: I can't believe there are two of these sweaters in existence.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is what I wanted to say about this.
Speaker 2: We don't even own these. Okay, So are my friend
Speaker 2: Jared who I'm trying to introduce you to.
Speaker 1: Jared Frieder.
Speaker 2: Everyone knows him. That's why that's a reader Katie publicists.
Speaker 2: Final lest ar Kyle, he came to help us sort
Speaker 2: of art direct the shoot. He buys two of everything
Speaker 2: because he had two of these.
Speaker 4: It was this what he was dreaming up, that you
Speaker 4: would be matching.
Speaker 1: No, because we told him we gave him like twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: Notice where like get down here when you extra closed.
Speaker 1: I did not pack enough for the shoot. I totally
Speaker 1: didn't realize that I should have packed for this. Came
Speaker 1: with doubles and this is just his retail behavior, is
Speaker 1: that he buys two of each. What is that? There's
Speaker 1: there's a pathology.
Speaker 4: There's a pathology there. But I have to say it.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's really worked out because it's actually
Speaker 3: sort of studying on both of you can works on
Speaker 3: you boath it does.
Speaker 1: I'm always hesitant to match because it's all with Matt,
Speaker 1: especially because it gives tweedled tweetled dumb. But that's who
Speaker 1: we are.
Speaker 3: I mean, no, I'm not feeling tweedled de tweetl dumb.
Speaker 3: I'm feeling tweedled and tweetle stud that.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now, my god, I love that for us.
Speaker 1: What's the tweetle blank tweetled blank for you and Jesse Klein?
Speaker 4: Oh wow, that is wow, Tweedle, Oh shit.
Speaker 1: I'm putting on the spot. But then new podcast you
Speaker 1: guys are starting is about adult friendships.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 3: It's called here to Make Friends Friends, and it's really
Speaker 3: about how hard it is to make friends in your midlife. Yes,
Speaker 3: which you're not quite there yet, but wait till you
Speaker 3: see wait till you turn thirty six.
Speaker 1: Oh the algorithm. The algorithm is telling me I'm in
Speaker 1: my middle age.
Speaker 4: What is it telling you?
Speaker 1: So a couple of things.
Speaker 2: My per Okay, I almost had my personal trainer, and
Speaker 2: I guess I'm just gonna say it, because I have
Speaker 2: a personal trainer I've started with. And he goes to
Speaker 2: me the first day we ever started working, he goes,
Speaker 2: it's actually really good that you started now, because at
Speaker 2: thirty five that's when your bone density starts to go,
Speaker 2: and then at thirty six that's actually when you lose
Speaker 2: any metabolism you've ever had. So it's really good that
Speaker 2: we're getting to work now. And I'm like, and so
Speaker 2: then I get randomly served on Instagram this like you
Speaker 2: know when you flip through the stories and then there's
Speaker 2: one that's like a targeted ad. It's like, how thirty
Speaker 2: five means you're definitely middle aged. It's like all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, everything had always told me like, you're young,
Speaker 2: you're young, you're young, and then hit thirty five and
Speaker 2: they're like, you're middle aged. You're middle aged. We're changing that,
Speaker 2: we're moving the goal post back. Thirty five is middle aged.
Speaker 3: I need you not to be middle aged because I'm
Speaker 3: so much older.
Speaker 4: Than thirty five. Oh no, I feel like middle age
Speaker 4: is forty. I'm going to be honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, your life expect grows. Thank you in middle
Speaker 1: age and like move up in number. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Somebody said middle ages until you're sixty, which I thought
Speaker 3: was generous.
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of major. That person's a legend that
Speaker 1: I want to make you. Have them on their podcast,
Speaker 1: have them on our podcast, but from them. Yes, they
Speaker 1: feel like a good friend. Do you have a theory
Speaker 1: on why it's harder to make friendships in your mid adulthood?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think in part because when you're
Speaker 3: a kid, all you have is your friends. You're just
Speaker 3: there to play, You're there to make believe you're you know,
Speaker 3: you don't have judgments or you know, needs that are clear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I feel like I barely have them
Speaker 1: now because you're thirty four, I don't have I really
Speaker 1: don't have needs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, talk to Matt's trainer because he'll tell you, like
Speaker 3: thirty seven, At thirty seven, you identify yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it is true. I just you know what
Speaker 2: I was thinking about the other day. Remember when you
Speaker 2: were a kid, like a young, young, young kid, Remember
Speaker 2: this sentence, this question, do you want to be my friend?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I used to ask that question on the playground, and
Speaker 2: even then it felt so intimate. But it was like
Speaker 2: this intimacy that you're allowed when you're a child to
Speaker 2: ask a pure question.
Speaker 1: My god, I could.
Speaker 4: Cry truly, but that is true.
Speaker 3: Like you're allowed to be intimate and vulnerable and yourself
Speaker 3: when you're a kid. And I think by the time
Speaker 3: you get into your mid thirties forties, I'm just being
Speaker 3: generous by saying at thirties, I reallyate.
Speaker 4: Just mean over forty.
Speaker 3: But no, but when you get to be an older person,
Speaker 3: like there's a history that you have behind you, there's
Speaker 3: like a present that you're living in where there's so
Speaker 3: many stories. Like it's like when you go on a
Speaker 3: first date with somebody, yes, and you're like, which version
Speaker 3: of myself of like am I gonna give? Like am
Speaker 3: I gonna tell them how my brother and my sister,
Speaker 3: you know? And so Jesse and I were really lucky
Speaker 3: because we became friends in the writer's room of dead
Speaker 3: to me, and I knew who she was and she
Speaker 3: knew who I was, and we were both sort of like, you.
Speaker 1: Know, excited to be around each other.
Speaker 3: And then when we started talking in the writer's room,
Speaker 3: I realized that like everybody was just watching us sort
Speaker 3: of kibbits and chit chat with each other, and like
Speaker 3: we just had so much in common, and I was
Speaker 3: so excited, and I, you know, you feel that sparkle
Speaker 3: inside with that new friend, which you know, I'm a
Speaker 3: happily married gay. I've been with my wife for sixteen years,
Speaker 3: so I don't, you know, I don't get to do
Speaker 3: the first date thing, but that felt kind of first
Speaker 3: dating and it was really like it was really sweet.
Speaker 3: And so we we are weirdly kind of like friendship nerds.
Speaker 3: We love to talk about friendship. Yeah, by the way,
Speaker 3: you guys are.
Speaker 1: We're the biggest friendship nerds.
Speaker 3: But you are such wonderful friends to each other, Like
Speaker 3: it's such a pleasure to listen to your show. So
Speaker 3: not just for the funny and the and the pop
Speaker 3: culture of it all so that I feel relevant and
Speaker 3: I sort of going on the world, but also just
Speaker 3: because like you are kind to each other. You you
Speaker 3: are like the living embodiment of yes.
Speaker 1: And oh that is such a nice compliment. It's true,
Speaker 1: very sweet. That is Oh thank you my girl. That
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 3: I mean, you guys love each other and it's like
Speaker 3: it's it's snark free in such a wonderful, like fresh way.
Speaker 2: You know what's interesting about that, I think because we
Speaker 2: were two gays doing a podcast talking about pop culture
Speaker 2: in the beginning, Like in the breakdowns, people would talk
Speaker 2: about our podcasts and we would get snarky all the time,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, is this just because we're two gay guys,
Speaker 2: because we're not snarky.
Speaker 1: Idea as in the comments, like people that were like
Speaker 1: trying to explain what the podcast we call snarky and
Speaker 1: we'd be like, I guess, but that's not no.
Speaker 3: I would I would actually call you devoid of snark.
Speaker 3: I would see, you guys are so like authentic and
Speaker 3: I would say very kind hearted about your approach to
Speaker 3: pop culture.
Speaker 1: We'll equip, we'll quip quick, quill a quip and we'll
Speaker 1: get dragon or read.
Speaker 2: But it's for the culture number forty nine. Oh, we'll
Speaker 2: give you a dragon read. But no, I mean, I
Speaker 2: do think it's like that's very nice of you to say.
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's like, well, it's you and Jesse,
Speaker 2: so it's like you guys are obviously iconic comediance, by
Speaker 2: the way, two wonderful showrunners I've worked.
Speaker 1: Yes, So are you actually this threat is common? Jesse?
Speaker 1: I love that for you, and this was no good deed.
Speaker 2: But I wonder are you kind of rolling the dice
Speaker 2: on some people because you're like, we want to be
Speaker 2: friends with this person, Like we're sort of.
Speaker 1: Like the whole point. So you're not you're not playing
Speaker 1: it safe, You're not bringing in.
Speaker 3: Like, oh no, we are playing it safe because at first,
Speaker 3: you know how it is when you have a podcast
Speaker 3: you need well it's also like people don't know what
Speaker 3: your show is, so like, no, we're not gonna chest.
Speaker 4: Dan's not coming on yet.
Speaker 1: I know what she will. She's she's never hit the
Speaker 1: podcast Sarka, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, you know, so we do have our white whales,
Speaker 3: you know. Of course I've heard you guys talking about it.
Speaker 3: Reference of course we know we have our white whales,
Speaker 3: but for now we are We're mostly having guests on
Speaker 3: that we know on some level because they trust us
Speaker 3: enough to come on without having heard an episode because
Speaker 3: the show doesn't come out until March fourteenth.
Speaker 4: But the whole point is that we want to.
Speaker 3: Make friends, and we feel excited that we got to
Speaker 3: make friends with each other, so now we're like who
Speaker 3: else could we make friends with? And the excuse of
Speaker 3: just inviting them on the podcast and then essentially like
Speaker 3: bum rushing them into friendship yeah right, and cornering them
Speaker 3: and basically putting pressure on them in front of a
Speaker 3: microphone to be like, but would you want to have.
Speaker 4: The drinks with us?
Speaker 1: Yes, that's like the sort of blue sky fantasy, like
Speaker 1: not endgame, but like that's the like when you say,
Speaker 1: like can we be friends? Is that the image like
Speaker 1: eventually we just get like call each other up for
Speaker 1: like drinks like a.
Speaker 3: Thousand percent okay, like my ideal or Jesse and I
Speaker 3: have the ideal that like maybe at the end of
Speaker 3: the season we would have, you know, like a last supper.
Speaker 3: Oh I love that, you know, Yeah, you guys are invited.
Speaker 1: Oh my, I'm joining the podcast next week. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But when I we wanted to get you, but I
Speaker 3: felt like you're very business.
Speaker 4: I wanted you both on.
Speaker 1: Together, so available or if you want to have just him.
Speaker 1: I think he should have a moment with both of you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he should have a moment because we he's like our.
Speaker 1: Son, he's your he's your son, and I'm like the
Speaker 1: exchange program. You know, absolutely not kid from.
Speaker 3: That is so now we know where everyone really thinks about.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, you know, I'm from I'm from the
Speaker 1: East coast that thing.
Speaker 3: But if I may take this moment to say what
Speaker 3: a fan I am.
Speaker 1: Of yours, likewise, that means so much.
Speaker 4: It means so much to me.
Speaker 3: I am a you know, obviously longtime fan of the
Speaker 3: show that you're on. It's called Saturday Light and you know,
Speaker 3: I've been watching it since I was a young child.
Speaker 4: But you are such a fucking bright.
Speaker 3: Light on that show and truly list door and I
Speaker 3: just you're fucking brilliant.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, when you get.
Speaker 3: Behind that, but when you get behind that weekend up
Speaker 3: date desk, like I just I like, I lean forward,
Speaker 3: get the proverbial popcorn out.
Speaker 4: I know it's gonna be fucking great.
Speaker 1: It's you know what I love about it is that
Speaker 1: it's hit or miss. Well that's but that's the show.
Speaker 4: But that is I mean, it's true nothing's perfect.
Speaker 1: Nothing's perfect tonight. I love that about working there. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I tried something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you never fail because you're you.
Speaker 1: That's so nice, it's very it's true. True. Did you
Speaker 1: check out the fiftieth I did.
Speaker 3: I did. Think well, I thought there's a very handsome
Speaker 3: guy on the red carpet. I thought there was a
Speaker 3: real star on the red carpet. And that's wait his audition.
Speaker 3: Just to go back to that for a second, I
Speaker 3: want you to know where that audition came from. Because
Speaker 3: we were I had written the part, we were casting
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 4: Couldn't find the guy.
Speaker 1: At first.
Speaker 3: We were looking and I don't know where the hell
Speaker 3: we were looking, but I couldn't find him. And in
Speaker 3: the middle of the night, I shit you not. I
Speaker 3: was like, because this is I'm a weird, like I
Speaker 3: wake up with ideas kind of person. It was like
Speaker 3: three o'clock in the morning and I shot up out
Speaker 3: of bed and I was like.
Speaker 1: It's Roger. I'm so happy that that happened.
Speaker 3: I swear spirit moved The spirit moved me. It was
Speaker 3: like somebody whispered in my ear and then I couldn't
Speaker 3: shake it. And then of course you nailed the audition, and.
Speaker 1: That's very kind, you know.
Speaker 2: I it is hard on It's hard when you audition
Speaker 2: on Zoom especially. Yeah, that's the thing is it's like
Speaker 2: you have Oh I do it all the time. I
Speaker 2: put myself on the self tape all the time. I
Speaker 2: did it yesterday.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's hard, But I really.
Speaker 2: Loved you as a you know, as someone who obviously
Speaker 2: a name I knew and respected so much. When they
Speaker 2: told me that you were actually going to be on
Speaker 2: the Zoom, that's when you're like, okay, well you know,
Speaker 2: here we go. But it is hard. It's it's hard
Speaker 2: to like connect in a way. It's hard to really
Speaker 2: get adjustments. It's also you're seeing someone in a literal screen,
Speaker 2: which is different than the screen they'll be on ultimately.
Speaker 1: So it's bizarre.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to ask you, like, as a creator
Speaker 2: and as someone who auditions people all the time, like
Speaker 2: do you miss the in person auditions because you're a
Speaker 2: director as well. I mean, you're so multi talented, so
Speaker 2: I would imagine that like part of getting in there
Speaker 2: and like getting clay on the mound and really working
Speaker 2: is part of what you love.
Speaker 1: And it's just cl on the mound. Is is that
Speaker 1: a Shudie Green thing? Yeah, it's like it's a thing
Speaker 1: that they like it. Beauty and Celeste and I get
Speaker 1: Clay on the table. Clan the mound kind of hits
Speaker 1: the year better.
Speaker 3: On the bound.
Speaker 4: I'm interested in.
Speaker 1: So different now, well it is.
Speaker 3: I Well, if I'm just a person person, I like people.
Speaker 4: I like to sit in here. I mean I love
Speaker 4: the fact.
Speaker 3: That we're doing this in person and not on zone. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, I really do miss the personal, the
Speaker 3: interpersonal stuff that you get. Also, I used to be
Speaker 3: an actor. I know what it's like to go in
Speaker 3: that room and you know, be nervous or unsure of
Speaker 3: the choice you're making, and then the people over there
Speaker 3: looking at you. It's so vulnerable. So I at least
Speaker 3: want to be there for the people to be like, hey,
Speaker 3: I got you. Like it's fine, there's no like, we'll
Speaker 3: work on it, we'll do it, you know, So thank
Speaker 3: you for doing that from your bathroom on.
Speaker 1: Zoo like ultimately it was either that or like I was. Honestly,
Speaker 1: is my one of my favorite roles I've ever played,
Speaker 1: maybe my favorite role every brilliant casting because I know
Speaker 1: exactly what you mean. It's like it's a very specific
Speaker 1: kind of person. And for Matt to just sort of
Speaker 1: be like this perfect invisible hand throughout the entire season
Speaker 1: and like it's just he's you're so good in it.
Speaker 1: And so Matt Rogers Ray Ramano, what chemistry we knew?
Speaker 1: I just saw him at the fiftie.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I mean that was you know, all
Speaker 3: the talk. First of all, you were incredible in the show,
Speaker 3: and what a great improviser. So many of his best
Speaker 3: clients were from your head to your mouth, not from
Speaker 3: my little type type.
Speaker 2: Well, that's also you providing a space for that, which
Speaker 2: is another compliment I'll give you, is that, like it's
Speaker 2: so rare. Okay, I'll say this good leadership, like what
Speaker 2: you show is just rare. And so one of the
Speaker 2: things I loved about working with you is how decisive
Speaker 2: you are when you've got what you wanted, and how
Speaker 2: you move on like confidently and everyone else can feel
Speaker 2: confident around you when you know when a leader is
Speaker 2: just like we got it and we're joyfully moving on,
Speaker 2: and and then no one has to go home and
Speaker 2: feel strange or odd or anything like that, because it's
Speaker 2: like we did it, and Liz always included a fun run.
Speaker 3: I mean not when you have Matt Rogers, you're gonna.
Speaker 1: Let him do his thing.
Speaker 2: No, I just mean, like for everyone at home, it's
Speaker 2: just it's like that take at the end when it's on,
Speaker 2: you kind of got it, and it's one for fun
Speaker 2: and it's that chance to like improvise and if you're lucky,
Speaker 2: to really connect with the character and have ideas for it,
Speaker 2: and like it's a collaborative set. Like I found that
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff that was in the show
Speaker 2: ended up being.
Speaker 3: I would say you wrote probably half your line, if
Speaker 3: not more, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know if you knew,
Speaker 1: but just being in that type of.
Speaker 2: Environment where it's just like constantly obviously the cast is
Speaker 2: the cast, and if you haven't watched No Good Dude yet,
Speaker 2: you should should.
Speaker 3: Mean you get to see Matt Rogers with Ray Romano.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Did you ever this is a weird question because you've
Speaker 2: you've worked in the business for so long, but like, do.
Speaker 1: You get star do you get starstruck? You get nervous
Speaker 1: around get starstruck? Yes, definitely, maybe you do you still well,
Speaker 1: I do, I've had recent moments of star striking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially at fifteen.
Speaker 4: Well, that was every single famous person in the entire universe.
Speaker 4: He was there.
Speaker 1: This is not a brag, but there was just a
Speaker 1: remarkable number of them who were like, I love the
Speaker 1: podcast and we're like to both matt watch. It was
Speaker 1: every two minutes. It was like crazy as Clari Dance.
Speaker 2: So basically like whenever I see anyone like going over
Speaker 2: to Bowen and being like Bowen, I'm like, yes, because Bowen,
Speaker 2: I agree with you. Is the star of SNL, is
Speaker 2: the truth in the light.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 2: It's Bowen and it's the fiftieth Everyone's excited to talk
Speaker 2: to Bowen. Claire Dance turning to me and like just
Speaker 2: calling me by my first name. I was like, I
Speaker 2: believe it.
Speaker 1: The best actress ever, the greatest, like and then we
Speaker 1: just like had a moment with her Lar Danes and
Speaker 1: then five minutes two minutes later, Sarah's a Parker Matthew
Speaker 1: Broder coming down the stairs as JP clocking is bowing
Speaker 1: to us.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's she puts the pop and pop culture.
Speaker 1: I mean, she is the New York woman.
Speaker 4: She is the New York woman.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Like yes, anyway, so like sorry to answer your question,
Speaker 1: and it's just termed to do a whole name drop fast,
Speaker 1: but like.
Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you, I'm like asking for.
Speaker 1: You, but you would mind.
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I it's almost like it's not even
Speaker 3: that I get sometimes I get starstruck.
Speaker 4: Most of the time, I know I'm going to see
Speaker 4: the person if.
Speaker 3: It's a surprise, if it's like I'm running into them
Speaker 3: at a party and they're like, I listen to your podcast,
Speaker 3: Like that's that's different. That's like, you know, like sending
Speaker 3: a like a sweet shive down my spine, you know.
Speaker 3: But like with Lisa Kudro, I had been watching Friends
Speaker 3: every night and her name came up in casting and
Speaker 3: I was like, but I want her.
Speaker 4: I watched her on my TV.
Speaker 3: I was very excited to meet her. But then I
Speaker 3: know that I have to present myself as a leader.
Speaker 3: And thank you so much for what you said. That's
Speaker 3: very very kind to say, But I know I have to,
Speaker 3: like you know, I have to be confident when I
Speaker 3: meet her and not treat her like she's this thing
Speaker 3: that is unattainable.
Speaker 4: To me, because then why would she want to work
Speaker 4: with me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because she's very much quite there attainable.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, very much, right interest, I'll tell you.
Speaker 3: So this is a true story. This morning, I'm getting
Speaker 3: ready because I one of the great parts about my job,
Speaker 3: especially when I'm in development on like a new thing,
Speaker 3: is that I get to sit and meet actors and
Speaker 3: they just like, you know, like they just go, do
Speaker 3: you want to meet so and so?
Speaker 4: And I go, yeah.
Speaker 3: It's like going on like a lunch date with the
Speaker 3: most random, wonderful people. So this morning, I'm getting ready
Speaker 3: to have breakfast with Pamela Anderson.
Speaker 1: We were just talking about her in the car obsessed.
Speaker 3: She's and I don't use this word often, a queen,
Speaker 3: she's a question. And I'm looking at myself in the
Speaker 3: mirror and I don't have makeup on, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: you know what, She's not gonna wear a makeup. I
Speaker 3: know that that's her thing. So I'm like, you know,
Speaker 3: do I show up at breakfast with Pamela Anderson with
Speaker 3: no makeup on? And I take one look at myself
Speaker 3: in the mirror and I go, you know what, I'm
Speaker 3: not working from the same baseline as Pamela, and I was.
Speaker 4: Like this paga.
Speaker 1: Queen. She doesn't give a fuck about it.
Speaker 3: She doesn't, but I like, I wanted to feel like,
Speaker 3: you know, I was presentable, so I did put some
Speaker 3: makeup on and I was still like a fourteenth as gorgeous.
Speaker 1: As she is.
Speaker 3: I want to be no right because again I'm like
Speaker 3: trying to be like, let's collaborate on something, maybe you know,
Speaker 3: but like I do sit in awe is what I'll say.
Speaker 3: Like I'm not maybe struck, but I sit in like
Speaker 3: complete respect and awe of people who especially like her,
Speaker 3: people who have been through the fucking ringer because of
Speaker 3: pop culture, because of our thirst for her fame and
Speaker 3: her gorgeousness, and you know the way in which society
Speaker 3: has you know, defied her over and over again and
Speaker 3: truly like turned her into an object.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: And let me tell you, she's fucking brilliant. She's so smart.
Speaker 3: She's way better read than I am. Like she's making
Speaker 3: references and I'm nodding like I know what she's talking about,
Speaker 3: no idea what she's talking about.
Speaker 4: I mean, I wasn't so impressed.
Speaker 1: So impressive, she's she has a Criterion Closet episode where
Speaker 1: she's really good knows everything.
Speaker 4: She was naming movies. She was talking about Genner Roland's movies.
Speaker 3: I mean, like she's she's just such an impressive human
Speaker 3: being and given everything that she's gone through, like, you know,
Speaker 3: to have your story be to be do you have
Speaker 3: your story be stolen? Is I think kind of almost
Speaker 3: among the worst things that can happen to a person,
Speaker 3: you know, like that's her story to tell, and you know,
Speaker 3: I get that it seems like it's part of the
Speaker 3: universe and it's you know, upper grabs, but that's really rough.
Speaker 1: Right, I will say, going back to what Matt was
Speaker 1: saying about you your leadership, this is such a backtrack,
Speaker 1: but he was coming off of that set every day
Speaker 1: being like, I mean, Liz Feldman, what a fucking queen.
Speaker 1: Like truly, we're so so so happy and grateful and
Speaker 1: learning so much from that experience, and it all shows
Speaker 1: that show is so great.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: It's fantastic.
Speaker 2: And also you have to know how nervous I was, like,
Speaker 2: because it will be one thing to book a show
Speaker 2: with Lisa Kudrou, you know what I mean, Like, because
Speaker 2: that's another thing is. It's like BTS for the readers
Speaker 2: and everybody at home. It's like you open your email.
Speaker 2: You're lucky enough one day to get any audition because
Speaker 2: they're very rare now, you know what I mean, And
Speaker 2: you open it up and it's like it's the new
Speaker 2: Liz Feldman show, which is already so exciting in and
Speaker 2: of itself.
Speaker 1: Everyone loves.
Speaker 2: It's such an exciting name to see yours when you're
Speaker 2: an actor too, because you know it's going to be
Speaker 2: like I would imagine that every actor is taking out
Speaker 2: all the meetings with you because they love dead to
Speaker 2: me and they see no good deed and they see
Speaker 2: this there's just so much potential for them to.
Speaker 1: Do things, you know what I mean. And like every
Speaker 1: character is interesting, which is rare, but it's like you
Speaker 1: see and Lisa Kujo is attached. That would be enough
Speaker 1: to give you a panic attack, even on an audition
Speaker 1: where you're not actually gonna interact, and then it's like
Speaker 1: rare mono. The name that really took me out was
Speaker 1: Linda Carnali.
Speaker 2: Out like true acting hero of mine, and it just
Speaker 2: it just didn't stop from there. I was a huge
Speaker 2: fan of every single person and then he goes it's
Speaker 2: like the super smash Brothers of television.
Speaker 4: Yeah, brilliant. Absolutely, I used you, but it's true. But
Speaker 4: but here's in here, Here's where I'm gonna go to.
Speaker 3: I was about to say, here's where I go down
Speaker 3: on you.
Speaker 4: Here's where are we? Sixty nine is you showed up?
Speaker 4: And I swear to god, he stole every scene.
Speaker 3: She's still every city was in Matt Rogers and Ray
Speaker 3: Romano turned into this like comedy team.
Speaker 4: I mean, you look out Bowen. I mean it could
Speaker 4: be racing there in that magic.
Speaker 3: Yes, but for some reason, I mean, like you would
Speaker 3: never think like Ray Romano like salted the earth from
Speaker 3: you know, although you're not from too far apart.
Speaker 1: From each.
Speaker 2: Island, so there was enough there, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 2: but again, like and I watched them since I was
Speaker 2: a kid, I'm.
Speaker 4: The same I get and what a great fucking guy
Speaker 4: he is?
Speaker 1: Too great.
Speaker 4: It was like a set of mensas.
Speaker 3: And to be honest, that was like the whole goal
Speaker 3: that I had is now that I get to be
Speaker 3: a person who you know, picks actors and hires crew
Speaker 3: and stuff, I'm like, I want to go to work
Speaker 3: and be surrounded by people I really enjoy being around, nice, kind, talented,
Speaker 3: but people who inspire me, people who are like, you know,
Speaker 3: if I'm going to go leave my two year old
Speaker 3: daughter at home and my wonderful wife who I actually really.
Speaker 4: Like, you know, I want to show up to people
Speaker 4: who I.
Speaker 3: Feel like are my family, and and it is, it is.
Speaker 3: It was so nice because we really to create that
Speaker 3: on no good deed.
Speaker 1: This is friendship nerding. This is this is being a
Speaker 1: friendship nerds. Where you're saying you and and Jesse, you
Speaker 1: are friendship nerds. Yes, this is nerding out about like
Speaker 1: the right chemistry's people the way.
Speaker 2: And in the writing in the writer's room too, I
Speaker 2: would imagine, because what I loved most about the set
Speaker 2: and I'm experiencing now on another show I'm working on,
Speaker 2: is I go over to Video Village and it's like
Speaker 2: a bunch of people like you have such a great
Speaker 2: group of ladies that you work with.
Speaker 3: Kelly Kennedy Hutchinson is one of my best friends of
Speaker 3: thirty years.
Speaker 4: We were we were college roommates.
Speaker 1: Where to go to college.
Speaker 3: We went to Boston University. We lived on Commonwealth Avenue
Speaker 3: and we were roommates. She was an acting student. I
Speaker 3: was a TV student, and we used to smoke cigarettes
Speaker 3: in our apartment with the windows closed.
Speaker 1: Yes, because that's what you did because dark in her life.
Speaker 3: Yes, we did life, and we just got like, you know,
Speaker 3: really stoned on really bad weed and dump carrible wine
Speaker 3: and have the greatest time. But she she was an
Speaker 3: actress on Broadway for many, many, many years, and was like,
Speaker 3: you know what, I think I want to try hand
Speaker 3: at writing, sent me her script and said to me
Speaker 3: was her first show and we've been working together ever since. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I mean she's truly one of my best friends
Speaker 3: in I mean thirty years of friendship. So I have
Speaker 3: her and then Silvertree, who's my producing adoration directors, an
Speaker 3: incredible director. But like, we're good friends, and so I'm
Speaker 3: just in it for that, Like I'm in this whole
Speaker 3: business for friends. Yeah, That's all it is for me
Speaker 3: is connections. It's human connection with people. You know. I
Speaker 3: want to create that with people at home that I
Speaker 3: maybe never get to meet, but I also want to
Speaker 3: create it with the people that I get to see
Speaker 3: every day.
Speaker 2: So I was because of the fiftieth and everything I
Speaker 2: was talking to Kristin Wig and you guys were in
Speaker 2: an improv group together years ago.
Speaker 4: Were those Crystal Wig is what I like to call it.
Speaker 3: So Chrystal and I were We were in the Sunday
Speaker 3: Company and the Groundlingsgel but even before that, we were
Speaker 3: in an all female improv group which was obviously called
Speaker 3: the Last Women on Earth. And yeah, I mean like
Speaker 3: we go way back. I was a bridesmaid in her wedding.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Well uh yeah, general, so this obviously predates snl oh.
Speaker 4: Gosh, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: We were children. I mean I think I met her.
Speaker 3: I was twenty two years old.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah in La.
Speaker 4: We met at the Groundlings.
Speaker 3: We met on like a like a wow improv class
Speaker 3: at the Groundings, which is just like a drop in class,
Speaker 3: And I think we saw each other and we were like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's we. Oh you're funny connected. We were connected definitely
Speaker 3: very much us.
Speaker 1: That's very much us because and I'm getting all mournful
Speaker 1: now because I'm like, I think it's still happening. I
Speaker 1: think it's coming back from the pandemic. But like something
Speaker 1: about like improv culture being kind of wiped away is
Speaker 1: really sad because that was the way that you and
Speaker 1: I made friends with people at college.
Speaker 3: It's how I've made so many of my dearest friends, truly.
Speaker 3: That's how it's why I went to Be You. I
Speaker 3: was visiting a friend, my friend Dan Fogler not to
Speaker 3: name drop, but a wonderful actor, and he was at BU.
Speaker 3: He was my best friend from high school. I was
Speaker 3: coming off a TV show called All That, which was
Speaker 3: my first show.
Speaker 4: Well, yes, you know, I've been doing this a long.
Speaker 3: Long time, and I was like, fuck, I just want
Speaker 3: to go hang out with my friend in college. He's like, well,
Speaker 3: I'm auditioning for the improv group. You should just come
Speaker 3: with me. I'm like, I'll go to school here. I
Speaker 3: went anyway, got in and they were like, well, if
Speaker 3: you went to school here, you could be in this group.
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, okay, so I didn't drust.
Speaker 3: I wasn't even going to school. I went into the
Speaker 3: admissions office, filled out an application, did an interview, and
Speaker 3: I got in, and I that's why I went to
Speaker 3: Be You.
Speaker 1: Crazy. That's even more because I would tell people one
Speaker 1: of the big reasons they went to NYU was because
Speaker 1: I did all my research in Danger Box was like
Speaker 1: the group that I was like focused on and then
Speaker 1: I went. But that's a whole other level, Like you
Speaker 1: were literally led and motivated by that.
Speaker 3: I was quite literally I didn't even know like what
Speaker 3: I was going to study. I didn't even care about
Speaker 3: any of it. I just wanted to be in the
Speaker 3: improv group.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And I made like one of my best friends for
Speaker 3: life in that group. I'm still friends with so many
Speaker 3: of the people from the group, you know. And then
Speaker 3: out here in LM, all my original friends were from
Speaker 3: the groundings. I did that for five and a half years.
Speaker 2: Isn't it wild how that works out? Like we tell
Speaker 2: this story sometimes, but you know, so many of our
Speaker 2: friends from those comedy groups. I was a hammer cat,
Speaker 2: so I did sketch comedy in Bona's Danger Box. He
Speaker 2: did improv. But that we were kind of all.
Speaker 1: One big community, and so many of those people are
Speaker 1: like still working, super successful, still are friends, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's just I remember when Rachel Bloom
Speaker 1: won the Golden Globe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were at Bowen's department in downtown Brooklyn, and
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, what's wild, Like I think
Speaker 2: we might have been right, Like the people that we
Speaker 2: thought were special like actually are Yeah, and then that obviously,
Speaker 2: like in so many ways, has proven to be true,
Speaker 2: but it is sort of like you have to check
Speaker 2: yourself at that point.
Speaker 1: You're like, wait, am I? Am I? Okay? Like am
Speaker 1: I living in like a like a simulation where it's
Speaker 1: just like how could this be? How could this actually
Speaker 1: have been the destiny of us?
Speaker 5: All?
Speaker 1: Like whatever that means, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Whatever, But it's like you talk about like the friends
Speaker 2: that you made all the way back then, and like
Speaker 2: it's really possible to have those communities endure.
Speaker 3: It is it is, And I mean like when I
Speaker 3: was in the Sunday Company at the Groundlings, Caitlyn Olsen,
Speaker 3: Dax Shepherd, Wow, you know, and by the way, all
Speaker 3: three of us were cut.
Speaker 1: What you Kitlyn Olsen and Dax Shephard were cut from
Speaker 1: Sunday Company. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I have to fix my brush strap because it's
Speaker 3: I guess I'm getting skinny.
Speaker 1: Wait, who the fuck cut you guys?
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, it happens, but it was, actually, in
Speaker 3: a weird way, the best thing that ever happened to me.
Speaker 1: So it's like the people that doesn't know who get
Speaker 1: cut in there and like it's like your Jenny's states
Speaker 1: like to go on and become I.
Speaker 3: Mean, Jenny's brilliant, brilliant I have, I'm friends with several
Speaker 3: other girls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And one thing about Asking with fifty is so
Speaker 1: many of them showed up so many one day and
Speaker 1: people came. They were all so happy and they're all
Speaker 1: doing so well. Well, yeah, that's just it was. This
Speaker 1: was my thing. There was just no bitterness thing and
Speaker 1: I was expecting even bitterness from me, where I'm like, oh, God, like,
Speaker 1: aren't we all so tired and aren't we also stressed
Speaker 1: out about this big show and it's all led up
Speaker 1: to this for like so many years, and it was
Speaker 1: all love and warmth thing.
Speaker 4: It was, and I have to.
Speaker 3: Say, as a person watching it at home, all six
Speaker 3: and a half hours a better, however long, it was
Speaker 3: very long, but I was I could have kept watching.
Speaker 3: My wife and I were so excited to watch it.
Speaker 3: And you know, like I mean, that's SNL is sort
Speaker 3: of like a family reunion for the audience too, you know,
Speaker 3: because so many of us like grew up watching it.
Speaker 3: My brother used to show my brother's seven years old
Speaker 3: of them. He used to show me episodes that I
Speaker 3: in no way should have been watching at like five
Speaker 3: years old, you know.
Speaker 4: So these are all people that we've all grown up with.
Speaker 1: Right, But it goes back to this like improv thing
Speaker 1: where I don't know, it's just it's just harder and
Speaker 1: harder for people to like connect in this like scaled
Speaker 1: up way where it's like you were just meeting so
Speaker 1: many people whenever you were doing shows or whenever you
Speaker 1: would like do like rehearsals or practices or whatever ever.
Speaker 2: You know, and developing together to is such an important
Speaker 2: thing I think in terms of grounding friendship, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? How many times did we go to
Speaker 2: each other's shows where there was like fourteen fifteen people?
Speaker 1: You know? One time Bowen and I did a show
Speaker 1: for one person and we were like it was at
Speaker 1: the pit underground.
Speaker 4: Sure, and I remember the pit, Oh yeah, I've been there.
Speaker 2: We were performing as our filthy slutty lip sync duo
Speaker 2: Sluck Perfect. His name was slut and my name was fucked. Together,
Speaker 2: we were Sluck and we would essentially for a half hour,
Speaker 2: guys come up with it was that was actually our peak.
Speaker 2: There was a time there was do you remember when
Speaker 2: I would.
Speaker 1: Look at my Google? I bet I still can so many.
Speaker 1: Fluck was all over like everyone wanted to book Sluck.
Speaker 1: Sluck opened for Joel Kimbooster's first special table. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: my god, that's everywhere. Sluck has performed everywhere.
Speaker 4: I embarrassed. I hadn't heard of it.
Speaker 1: No one knows about Stuck anymore, but Sluck return Fluck
Speaker 1: will be at the first Trump Kennedy Center on Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: You know what we should do. I'm going to say
Speaker 3: it right here on air to put the pressure on you.
Speaker 3: We should get a super group of queer improvisers together
Speaker 3: and do a and do a charity show for Transise Amazing.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, let's do it. Let's pressure even that's.
Speaker 3: Yes, I should because there's some really brilliant improvisers here
Speaker 3: in l A too, And I've had the great pleasure
Speaker 3: of like Drew Droghi and Legends yep, I mean the
Speaker 3: greatest Sam Pancake some of the.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean these.
Speaker 3: Are there's some we should do that we should.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, Brandon got Jones from Ghosts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was like I think I did a show
Speaker 4: with him.
Speaker 1: Yes, in fact, like he's one of the ones that
Speaker 1: like from the very big it's just so wild house,
Speaker 1: so so much really paid off.
Speaker 2: I was talking actually in my group chat the other
Speaker 2: day about how u c B really did create something
Speaker 2: incredible actors because of that face in Chelsea it was
Speaker 2: like that thrust stage and because it was so small,
Speaker 2: and because the audience was so engaged, because there was
Speaker 2: an era I'm sure in LA as well, where it
Speaker 2: just felt like everyone was so excited about improv and sketch.
Speaker 2: I think it was around you know, it's definitely a
Speaker 2: two thousand and six twenty twelve ish around there when
Speaker 2: SNL was like really hitting in that era because of
Speaker 2: like I think, like the way it was, you know,
Speaker 2: corresponding with politics, et cetera. It was just it was
Speaker 2: in the air that like, to succeed in comedy you
Speaker 2: had to be at uc B and be around it.
Speaker 2: It felt like in New York.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we flew to New York from LA with
Speaker 4: our show just to perform at.
Speaker 1: You see Wow, Dell Close.
Speaker 4: I did do Dell Close. Yes, the twenty four hour.
Speaker 3: Yes, we went on at some hilarious hour, like four o'clock.
Speaker 1: In the morning, Mistress, four in the morning in the morning.
Speaker 4: That was an incredible experience that was awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, four or fifteen in the morning, I went on
Speaker 2: and did like a thing where it was like a one.
Speaker 2: It was all gay guys and we were all pretending
Speaker 2: to be Boston straight guys. And I came out and
Speaker 2: I remember I ate a carrot off the ground and
Speaker 2: I was and I literally did this whole stupid bit where.
Speaker 1: I was like carrot and everyone was like no, No.
Speaker 2: I was told afterwards that it had been in someone's
Speaker 2: ass the bit before you had eaten, someone had put
Speaker 2: the carrot in their ass man and left it on
Speaker 2: the stage, And when I came out, I didn't know that,
Speaker 2: and so I took the cart.
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, I'm gonna eat this carrot.
Speaker 4: They were like, no, that was the first time.
Speaker 1: That's my kink, my kin carrots. But no.
Speaker 2: What I was saying was like the style of the
Speaker 2: stage being thrust And because the audience was so engaged
Speaker 2: and it was so small, it created such good actors
Speaker 2: because they could do such small choices like I remember
Speaker 2: Middle Ditch, Aubrey Plaza, Elie Kemper, Darcy Carden, Brandon's Got Jones,
Speaker 2: like all these people that ended up having success in television.
Speaker 2: They came from an arrow where you could develop as
Speaker 2: a live performer, but it's still it fed the on
Speaker 2: camera work because it was black Bocks Thrust thrust space.
Speaker 1: Yes, so you could like I missed that space kind
Speaker 1: of like play to your angles. I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: not making total sense, but like it was a way
Speaker 1: that to like play to like an angle slash camera
Speaker 1: or just play to an audience that was in front
Speaker 1: of you in the thrust setting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, that's it's interesting that you
Speaker 3: say that because the Groundings is a proscenium. It's very
Speaker 3: It's a much more sort of presentation, and the characters
Speaker 3: tend to be bigger.
Speaker 2: Yes, I remember hearing that and being like should I
Speaker 2: move there? Because I always got to note I was
Speaker 2: too big.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Kudro, was season two that comeback where she
Speaker 1: does like Groundings classes jim Jimmy Yeah.
Speaker 4: By the way, Jimmy Foley should also be.
Speaker 1: In our Favorite People.
Speaker 3: I love him. He's wonderful and you know, I have
Speaker 3: known him since he was.
Speaker 4: You know, a WE improviser.
Speaker 3: I love him and I'm so proud of everything he's
Speaker 3: becoming and so much more to come.
Speaker 4: Wait, what were we just talking about before?
Speaker 1: That was a.
Speaker 4: Groundling, Yes, and then a teacher, and.
Speaker 3: Then a teacher, and she said recently we were talking
Speaker 3: she said she was a terrible teacher.
Speaker 1: Does I can't do it? I can never.
Speaker 4: I couldn't either.
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm not like I can only like lead
Speaker 3: under great duress.
Speaker 2: You were you under direct because you didn't show that
Speaker 2: on No Good? Did you find yourself under diress?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: No, I think I just mean pressure, like, you know,
Speaker 3: external pressure, like here's a multimillion dollar budget on your shoulders, like,
Speaker 3: don't suck it up?
Speaker 1: You know? Do you like show running?
Speaker 4: I like I do.
Speaker 3: I do. It's like a sickness, but I do like it.
Speaker 3: It's very hard, it's very hard, but it is eleven
Speaker 3: jobs and one I like. I like eight of them,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Therapist, I mean I actually
Speaker 3: don't mind that part. I don't mind the managerial stuff,
Speaker 3: and I don't mind the interpersonal stuff. I don't love
Speaker 3: the tech stuff. I don't I don't love that, and
Speaker 3: I don't love like props meetings, you know, like just
Speaker 3: going over like here's the proper I mean, like I'm
Speaker 3: not a detailed person, which I'm much more of a
Speaker 3: macro gal and my wife is micro. I'm macro, and
Speaker 3: so we make.
Speaker 4: A good pair, you know.
Speaker 3: And but I do really like it because I love
Speaker 3: coming up with something from nothing. Is like this part
Speaker 3: that I'm in right now, where I get to just
Speaker 3: sort of dream up a new world is so fun.
Speaker 3: I get to people my world. I get to create
Speaker 3: a writer's room of people I want to spend time with,
Speaker 3: and then think of actors I want to work with.
Speaker 1: And she gestured lucky us.
Speaker 4: It was more of a no.
Speaker 3: I would I would work with you again in a heartbeat,
Speaker 3: and I would work with the first time.
Speaker 4: I would be lucky to no, she.
Speaker 1: Offered you a part right here. No, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: sound right for that. We don't really compete for.
Speaker 2: No, because you don't audition anymore because I don't think
Speaker 2: I'm good at it, Bowen, I'm a bad auditioner.
Speaker 1: No, I can, I can, I can.
Speaker 2: Copy always booked, Like I remember, I remember back in
Speaker 2: the day when we when we both were out for SNL.
Speaker 2: I remember I was like when you booked that, I
Speaker 2: was like, wow, he books because he would book all
Speaker 2: the time, and I felt like I had to book
Speaker 2: SNL in order to make a career happen interesting. I
Speaker 2: was like, I was like, this is the only thing
Speaker 2: I'll be right for because I always got the note
Speaker 2: too big, too big, too big.
Speaker 1: I just thought, I'm never going to work on.
Speaker 4: Big for me.
Speaker 1: Baby. This now like I watch him on NOUGADID and
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's no one more compelling to watch on
Speaker 1: the screen.
Speaker 3: Almost every reviewer thing that was written that I read
Speaker 3: because I never read them all but liked they highlighted
Speaker 3: Matt Rogers, who, by the way, isn't a is in
Speaker 3: a cast of very very very large cast of characters.
Speaker 3: I mean there's nine series regulars, and people are talking
Speaker 3: about Matt Rogers, you know, very kinds in many episodes.
Speaker 1: But but you know, like I can watch them in
Speaker 1: anything and any kind of thing, and yeah, you guys
Speaker 1: are being too much.
Speaker 4: I saw you and I love that for you, And
Speaker 4: I'm like, who is this guy?
Speaker 1: I love that show too, and that show has gone
Speaker 1: too soon?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 4: I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1: I can't believe no one wanted that, like when because
Speaker 1: they went out they went out to pitch it again
Speaker 1: and I was just like, this is like, you have
Speaker 1: so much proof of concepts here.
Speaker 2: The second season was fully written. I feel like I
Speaker 2: can say all this now because it's like it's been
Speaker 2: a long time. But I was just like that just
Speaker 2: goes to show the industry is in such a rough
Speaker 2: spot that that show was good.
Speaker 4: Yeah it had fans.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it had like you can put it on a
Speaker 1: Netflix homepage with like Molly Shannon in the fucking literally
Speaker 1: no reason for people to say no, no reason for
Speaker 1: a network to say no.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yet yeah, well it was an unfortunate timing thing.
Speaker 3: We're a victim of a regime change, you know, which
Speaker 3: is like changing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes, anyways, all this is lovely, but there's a question
Speaker 2: we have to ask you. Okay, So, Liz Feldman, this
Speaker 2: is the question how we ask all of our guests.
Speaker 2: You'll be no different. What was the culture that made
Speaker 2: you say culture was for you?
Speaker 3: Hmm. I'm going to say the culture that made me
Speaker 3: say culture was for me was the original l word.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: You know this is really good, been huge, I mean yeah,
Speaker 2: because I yeah, Well.
Speaker 3: Here's the true story, which is that, you know, there
Speaker 3: was nothing for lesbian culture in terms of you know,
Speaker 3: really being in the mainstream other than when Ellen came out,
Speaker 3: you know, but that was a she really died on
Speaker 3: the cross for us on that one, truly. But it
Speaker 3: wasn't necessarily about you know, affecting sort of pop culture.
Speaker 3: That was about society to me, you know, her coming
Speaker 3: out was about changing the temperature of how we feel
Speaker 3: society about.
Speaker 1: A respects.
Speaker 3: But the L word was different because it was a fantasy.
Speaker 3: But it was a fantasy that was set in a
Speaker 3: reality that did sort of exist.
Speaker 4: It just didn't exist for me.
Speaker 1: Sure you know what I mean. And you're saying the
Speaker 1: L word is cultural instead of societal, Yes.
Speaker 3: I do think the L word is cultural. I mean societal.
Speaker 3: I think that as a result, but cultural in that
Speaker 3: And and listen, I'm going to say a few things
Speaker 3: that may be offensive to other queer women out there,
Speaker 3: but like you know, I'm I'm a gay woman who
Speaker 3: grew up in the in the eighties and nineties. You know,
Speaker 3: we had no role models, no direct role models. You know,
Speaker 3: we were grasping at straws. We were grasping at an
Speaker 3: empty you know, grasping at like the girl from Just
Speaker 3: One of the Guys, which was in eighties movies literally
Speaker 3: before you were born. But you know, there was nothing
Speaker 3: for us that we were grasping at. Mary stept Masterson
Speaker 3: and some kind of wonderful who was a straight person
Speaker 3: it seems sort of gay.
Speaker 1: There was icono the.
Speaker 3: Like thank you Katie Lang, we appreciate your work. But
Speaker 3: when the L word came out, I remember watching it
Speaker 3: with my one lesbian friend that I had in Last
Speaker 3: agt at the time and just thinking, Oh my god,
Speaker 3: it's possible, it's possible. Where are these women. They must exist,
Speaker 3: they must exist. And we were so enamored of this
Speaker 3: culture and this sort of group of friends that were
Speaker 3: created on the show that I kind of think we
Speaker 3: manifested it because we eventually met them.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I was a stand.
Speaker 3: Up at the time, and I was writing and stuff,
Speaker 3: and I was doing stand up at Dinah Shore Weekend,
Speaker 3: which for the Deer readers that is the lesbian sort
Speaker 3: of like Coachella, if you will. And I was doing
Speaker 3: stand up and the Ellward gals were doing a like,
Speaker 3: you know, meet and greet kind of while the show
Speaker 3: is still long, and somebody took them to come and
Speaker 3: see my stand up and I had been doing the
Speaker 3: silliest vlogs.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I said, flog that's right.
Speaker 3: I had been doing these very silly vlogs with some
Speaker 3: other lesbians where we essentially like recapped the L word.
Speaker 3: We made fun of the L word and recapped it,
Speaker 3: and they had been watching it. Unbeknown all the cast
Speaker 3: had been watching these vlogs. Kate Mana came up to
Speaker 3: me and said, I'm a huge fan, and I almost fainted.
Speaker 1: This is like.
Speaker 4: Parker, and I.
Speaker 3: Was like, well, of them on yours and we have
Speaker 3: been friends ever sincere friends. She's one of my dearest friends.
Speaker 1: She's great and no good, d wonderful.
Speaker 3: I wrote the part for her. I mean it's like
Speaker 3: it's it's who else could be that.
Speaker 2: You don't even like obviously you do know, but like
Speaker 2: when it hit on Netflix and everyone freaking the fuck
Speaker 2: out when they saw Carl in bed with Kate, Like
Speaker 2: it was like, how much of that was you?
Speaker 1: Being like he lesbian? I'm feeding the lesbians right now?
Speaker 4: You had to do You have to think about your
Speaker 4: audience a little bit.
Speaker 1: Because then you'll think back and you're like, you're an
Speaker 1: audience that wanted that at one.
Speaker 4: Point, exactly, forget about that. I think that's the.
Speaker 3: Most important thing to do when you are in the
Speaker 3: very lucky position to create shows is create something you
Speaker 3: want to watch because the odds are other people want
Speaker 3: to watch it too.
Speaker 1: That's so incredible that you would go from making that
Speaker 1: very a stute observation about Ellen or about that time
Speaker 1: period having no role models to I mean, my nose
Speaker 1: is so far up your ass, but you you are
Speaker 1: that role model, now, you know what I mean? And
Speaker 1: it's like, thank you for reminding us of this, because
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same with gay male culture. We've
Speaker 1: been spoiled our you know, whole cultural lives. There's always
Speaker 1: been queer men at the four in some ways, but
Speaker 1: I feel like there was this waste land of a
Speaker 1: period in the odds and especially in the nineties. But
Speaker 1: like I remember just being on IMDb message boards being
Speaker 1: like is this actor again? Like that was our only
Speaker 1: way of figuring it out right, you know.
Speaker 2: And now how many like not open secrets, but like,
Speaker 2: how many people just like are gay and are huge stars,
Speaker 2: like and they're either out or it's not that they're
Speaker 2: not out, it's just not a thing, not a thing exactly.
Speaker 2: No one really talks about it. And I guess it's better, right,
Speaker 2: But it's.
Speaker 1: Like you have like a Coleman Domingo who's like a
Speaker 1: Best Actor nominee twice over now, and you're like, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's not hampered you in any way, No, because it's
Speaker 1: really not a thing.
Speaker 3: It's not a thing in so far as you guys,
Speaker 3: Being brunette shouldn't be a thing for sure, and being
Speaker 3: Asian shouldn't be a thing. Being like you're a talented
Speaker 3: artist with something to say that should be the thing.
Speaker 1: Exactly, which gives me hope for like the way that
Speaker 1: like trans people still keep getting vilified and keep like
Speaker 1: getting put through the ringer in terms of like oh,
Speaker 1: we like them now or we hate them now, we
Speaker 1: like the man. It's like it's like it seems like
Speaker 1: society has not figured out how to feel about trans people,
Speaker 1: especially now. But it's like, oh, but you literally have
Speaker 1: a trans Best Actress nominee just by all the things
Speaker 1: that she's done, Yeah, she's still a compelling actress. She's
Speaker 1: still delivered an amazing performance. It just gives me just
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, like if we could extrap a hopefully
Speaker 1: that means something in the near future, that's like pretty incredible.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but that is one of the things
Speaker 3: that I love about the entertainment business and about being
Speaker 3: storytellers is that we do sort of help society tip,
Speaker 3: you know, and I think we were so close to
Speaker 3: a tipping point with the trans community and with the
Speaker 3: perception of trans people, and unfortunately the forces of the
Speaker 3: escape them. They escapegoaded them, and they pulled them, you know,
Speaker 3: in this tug of war to the other side, and
Speaker 3: turned people against them, just totally based out of fear
Speaker 3: and bad statistics.
Speaker 2: It's also wild because that show, The L Word gets
Speaker 2: rediscovered all the time. In fact, when I was at
Speaker 2: Coachella last year, Rene Rap performed and she had the
Speaker 2: cast of The L Word introduce her because it's her
Speaker 2: favorite show, of course, and just like watching.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the L Word came back and
Speaker 3: I think it was the next gen gen Z. You know,
Speaker 3: that was less for me because I you know, it
Speaker 3: was more of an OG fan, right, But it was
Speaker 3: also just I mean just even fashion wise, and you know,
Speaker 3: just the way in which that we present ourselves. Like
Speaker 3: you know, when I was growing up in the nineties,
Speaker 3: you know, it was very like.
Speaker 4: Flannel shirt, unfortunate haircut.
Speaker 1: Times, you know, was the haircut.
Speaker 4: I mean I had a mullet. I did have a mallet.
Speaker 3: We have a late eighties mullet, more of a late eightiesmulllet,
Speaker 3: like more of a junior high kind of vibe, got it,
Speaker 3: or like even middle school. I My style icon at
Speaker 3: the time was Alex P. Keaton from Family Time, By the.
Speaker 1: Way I did. I didn't realize this that he was
Speaker 1: like a conservative icon well, because not icon, but he was.
Speaker 2: The bit of him was that he had liberal parents
Speaker 2: and he was an nineteen eighties like young conservative man
Speaker 2: being like, this is the way we're going to do.
Speaker 4: He was the outlier of his family.
Speaker 3: And I love that show unknowingly because I was the
Speaker 3: outlier of my even though he was playing this like
Speaker 3: conservative Republican kid. I related to that character because it
Speaker 3: was almost as if he was the gay.
Speaker 1: Kid at a Yes, yes, I love it.
Speaker 3: But then the l word, like the fashion was like
Speaker 3: on point. They were hot, they had cool haircuts, you know,
Speaker 3: they did cool things, They went out, They forged this
Speaker 3: whole community and life. You know that I just wanted
Speaker 3: so badly. And the irony is that just a few
Speaker 3: years later I got to have it with those act people,
Speaker 3: those parts and like I just you know, manifestation is
Speaker 3: real baby, Oh.
Speaker 1: I know it. That's actually so so true, so true.
Speaker 1: It's also so important to hear you say and to
Speaker 1: remember write something that you would want to watch, because
Speaker 1: that actually makes creating so much easier. Yeah, it's one
Speaker 1: of those sentences.
Speaker 2: And I'm almost connecting it to an improv thing, which
Speaker 2: is this always makes it easier for me too, which
Speaker 2: is if this is true, what else is true?
Speaker 1: It's just an easy generator.
Speaker 2: But like, write something that you would want to watch,
Speaker 2: is like, of course I would do that, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? And like and also if you're thinking
Speaker 2: about it that way, you're not the only one, you know, like,
Speaker 2: so it's really easy fun in Yeah.
Speaker 3: Also it's gonna make it a better rite told you
Speaker 3: of course if you want to you know, if that's
Speaker 3: the kind of thing you were going to be interested
Speaker 3: in watching, you'll be more interested in writing it too,
Speaker 3: And it won't make it as painful of a process
Speaker 3: that it was always painful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when was when were you out? So? Like, how
Speaker 1: far along in your queer journey were you when Elward
Speaker 1: fell upon your lap? Oh?
Speaker 4: I was I was pretty far.
Speaker 3: I mean I was like twenty six or twenty seven,
Speaker 3: So I mean that's how long of a darth I
Speaker 3: was operating.
Speaker 4: And I mean I was.
Speaker 3: I kissed my first girl at sixteen, totally seduced by
Speaker 3: a girl who had gone to boarding school new things
Speaker 3: I didn't and thank you so much and love. I
Speaker 3: didn't really know exactly what I was because I had
Speaker 3: actually weirdly been boy crazy before I had kissed a
Speaker 3: girl then.
Speaker 4: Became crazy, and so you know, this was long before.
Speaker 3: Fluidity or even bisexuality was like a really accepted thing,
Speaker 3: and so I wasn't really I was like still sort
Speaker 3: of trying to figure myself out. And my mother, at
Speaker 3: seventeen years old, so I'm a senior in high school,
Speaker 3: gave me a letter and she said, you're going to
Speaker 3: read this in the car and I'm going to drive
Speaker 3: and you're gonna read it in front of me. And
Speaker 3: she was driving me to my SAT tutor at the time.
Speaker 3: And I opened it up and it was two poems.
Speaker 3: One poem was a daughter talking to the mother. It
Speaker 3: rhymed and it was something like, I don't know what
Speaker 3: to say when a girl walks by my way. I
Speaker 3: think I might be gay and I'm reading this and
Speaker 3: I'm in no way, shape or form ready to come out.
Speaker 3: Then the second letter is actually a poem from the
Speaker 3: mother to the daughter, also rhyming, and it says something like,
Speaker 3: you know, have no doubt we'll figure it out, like
Speaker 3: that kind of thing. And I was stunned. So my
Speaker 3: mother outed me at seventeen. I'm gonna guess a full
Speaker 3: five years before I would have probably done so myself.
Speaker 4: And so that really started my journey.
Speaker 1: Did that feel like an active kindness or we an
Speaker 1: active like shock, like like oh I would please, yeah,
Speaker 1: what or did it feel like an imposition?
Speaker 4: It was a shock.
Speaker 3: I would call it a shock because I wasn't ready,
Speaker 3: of course, and I appreciate that she saw me, but
Speaker 3: she almost like saw me too well. It's like, you know,
Speaker 3: she saw the X ray version of me, where you know,
Speaker 3: like it was bones and everything, and I wasn't really
Speaker 3: ready for that, and I was mostly not ready to
Speaker 3: tell my father, who at the time was quite homophobic,
Speaker 3: and so I was like, it was please don't tell dad.
Speaker 3: I mean it's nineteenninety four, nineteen eighty four, so please
Speaker 3: don't tell dad. And then of course that night my
Speaker 3: father who's like very Brooklyn comes home and he's like,
Speaker 3: your mother said, you might have something that you might
Speaker 3: want to talk about. You have some questions, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: let me tell you who. I don't want to ask
Speaker 3: these questions too, yea. So I said, I just I
Speaker 3: have to say I really admire myself at that age
Speaker 3: because I was very sell I don't know, I was
Speaker 3: self possessed. And I said, yeah, you know, I have
Speaker 3: been having questions but it's okay, you know, and you know,
Speaker 3: I think I like girls, but I also like boys
Speaker 3: and blah blah blah. And he kind of started to cry,
Speaker 3: which was very shocking because he's a really tough guy.
Speaker 3: And then he said he wanted me to go get
Speaker 3: my head checked by a psychiatrist.
Speaker 4: And I said, I'll only go if you come with me.
Speaker 3: And I was like it was just such a weird time.
Speaker 3: So we went, and I was seventeen. All I really
Speaker 3: cared about was driving, Like I wasn't ready to like
Speaker 3: profess anything about who I would be or end up
Speaker 3: being with or anything like that. So we go all together.
Speaker 3: She gives me a psychological evaluation, we all meet separately
Speaker 3: with her, then we all meet together as a family
Speaker 3: with her. She said I was the most mentally stable
Speaker 3: teenager she had ever had in her office, and that
Speaker 3: I didn't need therapy, but she recommended that my parents
Speaker 3: stay on. Oh wow, I swear to God. We walk
Speaker 3: out of her office. My father gave me the case
Speaker 3: of the cars the first time they let me drive
Speaker 3: the car our home.
Speaker 1: You have you written about this? This is incredible.
Speaker 4: I've written a version of it.
Speaker 3: I did a short film with my sister, Rebecca Feldman,
Speaker 3: who's a very talented writerom director in her own right.
Speaker 3: We did a short film called My First Time Driving.
Speaker 3: But I should say it's worth a revisit. It's worth
Speaker 3: a revisit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's stunning.
Speaker 2: Just like that image of them allowing you to drive
Speaker 2: them while they've been told that as full grown adults
Speaker 2: they may have like more to figure out. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's wild. I mean, I mean when I was a
Speaker 2: little kid, might I'll never forget. One of the things
Speaker 2: that my dad told me and I internalized was my
Speaker 2: dad's also a very long island guy, and I remember
Speaker 2: he said to me, he was like, I know everything,
Speaker 2: and if you ever have a question, you come to
Speaker 2: me and I will give you the answer because I
Speaker 2: know everything okay, cool, and so I think that he
Speaker 2: was just trying to make sure I didn't, you know,
Speaker 2: act out and go try and I think it was
Speaker 2: well intentioned. Every thing my father ever did as well intentioned.
Speaker 2: But internalizing that and then realizing that he, like any
Speaker 2: man in the nineties and aughts, you know, like that's
Speaker 2: like my dad's a varsity football baseball coach, you know,
Speaker 2: and then the culture around us, you know, like very
Speaker 2: like patriarchal, male dominated culture. And I do mean in
Speaker 2: all ways as we all know. But to start to
Speaker 2: feel like my identity was at odds with what that
Speaker 2: society was saying was tough.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't like.
Speaker 2: I could go to my dad with that question because
Speaker 2: I don't know that in two thousand and four he
Speaker 2: would have had the right thing to say. Ultimately, he
Speaker 2: did and was lovely and is lovely and such a
Speaker 2: supporter and like such a wonderful, lovely man. But it's
Speaker 2: hard when your parents are supposed to be this thing, yeah,
Speaker 2: and then you realize they're human. And so it sounds
Speaker 2: like in that story is what happened was not only
Speaker 2: did you confront and realize parents' humanity.
Speaker 1: But it was confirmed for you.
Speaker 3: It was, it really was, and my parents had marital problems, and.
Speaker 4: I realized too.
Speaker 3: It was my mother who had sort of whispered in
Speaker 3: my ear, saying, tell your father that you won't go
Speaker 3: to therapy without him, And.
Speaker 4: It was because she really wanted to go to therapy
Speaker 4: with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 3: She was sort of trying to save her relationship. And
Speaker 3: you know, spoiler alert, they're divorced. And but you know,
Speaker 3: that was the beginning, certainly of seeing them as fallible,
Speaker 3: you know, vulnerable people for sure.
Speaker 1: And all that catalyzed by your mom making you read
Speaker 1: this poem in the car.
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: It's like something was kind of foisted on you in
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 3: Yes, And I think it's because my mom ultimately is
Speaker 3: a very liberal and very accepting person. I think she
Speaker 3: knew who I was for long before I did, and
Speaker 3: I think she knew that I had a father that
Speaker 3: would be oppositional to that, and I think she was
Speaker 3: also trying to sort of, you know, bolden me and
Speaker 3: protect me and also literally change him. And it took
Speaker 3: a minute, but he is a totally evolved person in
Speaker 3: that way. He's eighty eight years old. He was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: God willing, I hope so. But like, you know, he
Speaker 3: like gave a beautiful toast at my wedding, and you know,
Speaker 3: I mean like he has really come around.
Speaker 2: It's lovely to see not people change, sure, but men change,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like just to watch a
Speaker 2: straight man like that's a very you have to be.
Speaker 2: And I don't give a lot of credit, but I
Speaker 2: will say that, you know, I really respect when my
Speaker 2: dad stands up to his friends who like Trump, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. My dad will give it to
Speaker 2: these guys that like Trump.
Speaker 1: Like, and you know, my dad wasn't a My dad
Speaker 1: was a phyz ed teacher, like varsity sports coach for
Speaker 1: a very long time, surrounded by attitudes that suck, yea,
Speaker 1: attitudes that fucking suck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's really hard to be the person being like, hey,
Speaker 2: knock it off, like care for women, care for minorities,
Speaker 2: care for queer people, care for trans people. But there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people out there doing it, and I
Speaker 2: think it's important, and I also I just want to
Speaker 2: acknowledge that change is very.
Speaker 1: Difficult for some people, and you do have to be brave. Yes,
Speaker 1: you have to be very brave to do that.
Speaker 4: You really do, you really do.
Speaker 3: And I have to credit the fact that my father
Speaker 3: married a woman thirty years younger than him after my
Speaker 3: parents got divorced, and so you know, she has really
Speaker 3: helped him modernize.
Speaker 4: Wait, but can I can I just.
Speaker 3: Say that question you asked earlier of when you were
Speaker 3: asking what's the age that you wish that you could be?
Speaker 3: My answer is thirty five?
Speaker 1: Really, yes, wow, because.
Speaker 3: I got married at thirty five and that was such
Speaker 3: a lifelong goal of mine that I thought would never.
Speaker 1: Be married married to make it, yeah, my lifelong dream
Speaker 1: and that's that, so being clear, and that's if I
Speaker 1: make it to third I.
Speaker 2: Remember saying it out about it, yeah, please the moment
Speaker 2: the moment I realized I was gay, the moment I
Speaker 2: remember I was eleven years old, and I remember the moment.
Speaker 2: I remember thinking the emotion was abject terror because I
Speaker 2: was like I'll die, yeah for sure, or like the
Speaker 2: world would have totally changed from what it is right
Speaker 2: now for me to like ever be okay with this
Speaker 2: or tell people about this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, honestly, like you say, I like
Speaker 1: to make it to thirty five, But I couldn't see
Speaker 1: thirty five for myself because, as you were saying earlier,
Speaker 1: where were the examples of it?
Speaker 4: Exactly?
Speaker 1: Where were the examples in media of us?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, it's true. I mean, like so yeah,
Speaker 3: this sort of poignant to have said that. But I
Speaker 3: you know, when I was growing up, for most of
Speaker 3: my adulthood, gay marriage was not legal, and it was
Speaker 3: I took it so personally because why is that a
Speaker 3: dream I'm not allowed to have right now? And so
Speaker 3: when I finally met my wife, I was thirty one,
Speaker 3: and we didn't get married till we were thirty till
Speaker 3: I was thirty five because it literally was illegal because
Speaker 3: of Prop.
Speaker 1: Eight.
Speaker 3: And at a certain point I got so mad that
Speaker 3: I was waiting for like a lot of change to
Speaker 3: do a thing that I felt very inherently, you know,
Speaker 3: was it my right?
Speaker 4: Was?
Speaker 3: Was my God given human right to be able to
Speaker 3: express my love for another person in front of my
Speaker 3: family and friends? And so we actually went to New
Speaker 3: York where it had become legal. We got married legally
Speaker 3: in New York, then came back had our like wedding
Speaker 3: wedding in LA and six weeks later Prop eight overturned. Wow,
Speaker 3: so long we didn't wait for the man. Yeah, we
Speaker 3: did what We did it the way we wanted to
Speaker 3: know it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I was a wonderful time in my life
Speaker 3: thirty five and just you know, being able to fulfill
Speaker 3: this dream with this wonderful person, my wife Rachel, and
Speaker 3: so I would say, thirty five.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think it's a very for some reason, as
Speaker 1: good age, the age you're going to be next, right,
Speaker 1: I can't wait November? Maybe November. Okay's my Scorpio child?
Speaker 1: Oh okay, child.
Speaker 3: Of course you do you know that Pisces are like
Speaker 3: my people, what are you a cancer?
Speaker 4: No, I'm a Gemini.
Speaker 1: We all get along. We get along very well, like Scorpio,
Speaker 1: like we have our like we get we get a
Speaker 1: bad rat. I think Scorpio and Gemini is really because
Speaker 1: everyone clutches their pearls when we tell them they are
Speaker 1: and we're like, it's not. You guys are the ones
Speaker 1: that got the big reaction. And I always get all.
Speaker 3: Well, Pisces, I for some reason, like I gravitate especially
Speaker 3: professionally towards Pisces, silver tree Pisces.
Speaker 1: I think Hutchinson a.
Speaker 3: Pisces yes, I mean Carrot Apollo, another wonderful writer on
Speaker 3: the show. Pisces. Yeah, Maddie Dollywall another writer on the store.
Speaker 1: You know, your shows are very Pisces. How interesting I
Speaker 1: believe that they are are because it's like we're dead
Speaker 1: to me, it's like, which, by the way, we I
Speaker 1: actually have to say while you're here, that was That's
Speaker 1: that's going to be looked back on as one of
Speaker 1: the great shows. That's one of the great shows. It's
Speaker 1: one of the.
Speaker 2: Great shows with two of the great performances. Are performances,
Speaker 2: I just I mean, they're so brilliant. But the fact
Speaker 2: that it's a relationship that on paper at the on
Speaker 2: the beginning of the show like should not work at
Speaker 2: all for X Y Z and beyond reasons. But it's
Speaker 2: just the the connection and the empathy that they have
Speaker 2: for each other, because that's really what it's based.
Speaker 1: In, is empathy. Yeah, that's very Pisces. It is.
Speaker 3: I feel like you guys have a very.
Speaker 1: Similar scorpio Pisces is.
Speaker 4: Everything have a lot of empathy for each other.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what I when I'm talking about
Speaker 3: when I see like there's that warmth between you.
Speaker 1: It's an irrigated system. It's it's water kind of like
Speaker 1: the pipes. The pipes are working. We're water cycle. Yes,
Speaker 1: we condemn, we precipitate. Okay, yeah, we're mixing metaphors, but I.
Speaker 4: Get them still, they're mixing that. I'm liking.
Speaker 1: You know what?
Speaker 2: How you know how? You know why that happens. It's
Speaker 2: because I often don't understand the metaphor no, and don't
Speaker 2: quite stick the landing on the metaphor.
Speaker 1: I don't know my.
Speaker 2: Words, but I do know my heart. That is one
Speaker 2: of the most piscy sayings, and it's my saying. It
Speaker 2: used to be on a throat pillow that we would
Speaker 2: sell on a merch website.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'd buy that.
Speaker 1: We will we will do, We'll do it, we'll do,
Speaker 1: we'll do more merch, the will you more merch? And
Speaker 1: year nine of Lost Coach.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Lost Coach, it's a podcast that has a
Speaker 2: segment and uh, it's coming up right now. So this
Speaker 2: is I don't think so honey and I don't think
Speaker 2: so honey. To sort of break it down, is a
Speaker 2: sixty second segment where each person on the podcast its
Speaker 2: hosts and it's guests or guests.
Speaker 1: Goes off for sixty seconds. Thing in pop culture that
Speaker 1: absolutely needs a dragging. And I said in the car
Speaker 1: we were just driving back from our shoot. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I said, I had something and I'm gonna do it. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is something that is in the culture and it's remained.
Speaker 1: It's not having it's not as big as it used
Speaker 1: to be, but I still it's more personal. Anyway, here
Speaker 1: we go. Okay, this is Matt Rogers. I don't think
Speaker 1: so honey as time starts now, I don't think so
Speaker 1: honey cameo. I can't because and here's the thing. It's
Speaker 1: not that I don't like it as a service.
Speaker 2: I do think so honey, like everyone like getting getting
Speaker 2: money from cameo, doing it, participating in it. Whenever I
Speaker 2: get a cameo gift, I cannot watch it. I'm too
Speaker 2: embarrassed that the person is talking to me. Like if
Speaker 2: I ever opened a cameo, like years ago, you got
Speaker 2: me one for my birthday from Sandra Diaz Twine Survivor
Speaker 2: Icon and I literally had to watch it in pieces,
Speaker 2: like throughout a couple of days because I couldn't believe
Speaker 2: she was talking to me. It's so intimate, cameo, I
Speaker 2: don't think so, honey, you're looking at.
Speaker 1: Me in my eyes through the phone.
Speaker 2: My friend Nico got one from Tom Sandalvall the other
Speaker 2: day and I have never watched it.
Speaker 1: Beau, come, I'm too embarrassed. Like it's like it's just
Speaker 1: it's something I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: It's like when the Culture Awards happened and people said
Speaker 2: in their videos, there's one I have never watched five seconds.
Speaker 1: I just can't. I don't think so, honey. Celebrities live
Speaker 1: your life, don't think about me.
Speaker 5: I don't talk to me.
Speaker 1: And that's for twenty five dollars for Tom to talk
Speaker 1: to you. No.
Speaker 2: It was Nico's birthday a couple of weeks ago and
Speaker 2: he was sent one from Tom Sandoval and I was
Speaker 2: just like I saw all my friends talking about it
Speaker 2: and I was like, I can't watch it. There's something
Speaker 2: about because I've gotten them from like Housewives before, because
Speaker 2: those are fun ones because you know they're all on
Speaker 2: camera and you get it and you're just like like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, like like what what they're told to
Speaker 2: say to you? When the way that it's not personal,
Speaker 2: it's literally filtered and so maybe it's that I think
Speaker 2: I'm wasting their time.
Speaker 1: But then again, it's like they're getting and they're getting paid.
Speaker 3: Like the cross section between vulnerability and inauthenticity. Yes, because
Speaker 3: like it is vulnerable because you're like they need thirty
Speaker 3: five arms to you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like getting fucked with a bag on your head exactly.
Speaker 4: I don't really get that.
Speaker 1: But yes, again it's intimate, but it's like they don't
Speaker 1: know who you are and.
Speaker 3: They're like saying things about you, and it feels a
Speaker 3: little patronizing. Yes, And also but like because you're an
Speaker 3: empathic person, you feel a little bit like embarrassed for them.
Speaker 1: By the way, I used to do cameos all the time,
Speaker 1: I say, he's been on. I used to make money
Speaker 1: doing cameos, especially during the pandemic, because you could just
Speaker 1: hit there on your phone. You're made nothing but time
Speaker 1: and just cameo, cameo, cameo, cameo, cameo. Like that's not it.
Speaker 1: It's it's specifically the act of receiving one. Now that
Speaker 1: I've done this on the podcast, I'm gonna get tons
Speaker 1: from my friends who like throw fifty bucks. By the way,
Speaker 1: it is my birthday. So that's true.
Speaker 4: Now, it's if you had to get a cameo from somebody,
Speaker 4: who would.
Speaker 1: Yes, it would be a housewife. If I had to
Speaker 1: get a cameo from someone, well, you know, I got
Speaker 1: a cameo from poverty a really long time ago, from Survivor, And.
Speaker 2: So I guess because who's the housewife? I can't really
Speaker 2: go because I'm too scared. You were quite brave with
Speaker 2: the housewives.
Speaker 1: You're braver than I am. Well, I've been on watching
Speaker 1: That Happens Life with a bunch of them, but I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like maybe maybe one like a Lisa Barlow.
Speaker 1: Lisa Barlow, I've met Lisa Rena. Get me a cameo
Speaker 1: from Lisa Rena. I'm happy by the way she and
Speaker 1: Harry Hamlin have a new podcast and they get into it. Yes,
Speaker 1: about the husband, let's not talk about the husband. I
Speaker 1: love that. Okay, So that's mine. Okay, do you have
Speaker 1: an I don't think so, honey, on today.
Speaker 4: I think it's going to have to follow the two
Speaker 4: of you.
Speaker 1: Oh, don't worry, please, we don't worry about Okay. This
Speaker 1: might still be a topic of conversation by the time
Speaker 1: this episode comes out. I think if if you're talking
Speaker 1: about it, and we're talking about it, this is Bow
Speaker 1: and yangs I don't think so, honey, And as time
Speaker 1: starts now, I don't think so many. All the White
Speaker 1: Lotus theme song sucks now. It's not customer service. Let
Speaker 1: Mike White make his creative decisions. He is at the
Speaker 1: helm of this hit series that you are privileged to
Speaker 1: be watching, your privilege. You are sitting among you're you're
Speaker 1: listening to three people who know the ins and outs
Speaker 1: of show. But it's very well and I'm sure none
Speaker 1: of us here have complaints about the White Lotus theme.
Speaker 1: It's a new take on it. It's it's gonna be different,
Speaker 1: and it's a new location, as the Taslitis poster says,
Speaker 1: same luxury, new reservations. Something has to be new. I'm
Speaker 1: just happy to see Lisa acting down. I'm happy. I'm
Speaker 1: happy to see Parker, to see Parker. I'm happy to
Speaker 1: see Michelle and Listen and Carrie and all of the
Speaker 1: stars of The White Lotus season two. I'm so happy
Speaker 1: that everyone's moaning and bitching and and grow because the
Speaker 1: second one was such a bop. Of course, but they
Speaker 1: didn't even it wasn't. Here's the thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, had they tried to make a bop this
Speaker 2: time and it like kind of flopped, that will be
Speaker 2: one thing.
Speaker 1: People would have been even more passed. But this is
Speaker 1: just this is like a score. This is like a
Speaker 1: different vibe. It has a tie sort of like inflection
Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 3: The fact that people are even talking about the theme song,
Speaker 3: it all shows you how powerful the show is, because
Speaker 3: when do you ever talk about theme songs? I share
Speaker 3: you to even hum another one, like there's there there,
Speaker 3: It's very hard to make one that that's a twenty
Speaker 3: year old themes.
Speaker 1: I'm loving White Lotus this season.
Speaker 4: Only one Deep.
Speaker 2: Deep, but I watched the first episode twice. I have
Speaker 2: to say my favorite moment of the whole episode was
Speaker 2: when Carrie Coon goes upstairs and she's been.
Speaker 1: Being sort of left down by the friends and she
Speaker 1: has that one he.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, that was and I
Speaker 2: was waiting for carry Coon to carry Coon.
Speaker 1: You know she's gonna coon out. Yeah, she's gonna carry
Speaker 1: it out. One of her favorite actors, I would say,
Speaker 1: she's a.
Speaker 3: Very versatile and very effective actress.
Speaker 2: I was brilliant and she pierces and I love that
Speaker 2: whole cat.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's great. You know who else
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with as Amy lou Wood, who's the British girlfriend.
Speaker 1: She's great. Man, I have a Goggins had I love, yeah,
Speaker 1: love him and everything I see he's going off.
Speaker 2: And also to say nothing of Parker Posy. And let
Speaker 2: me tell you something, a lot of idiots on Twitter
Speaker 2: dragging the accent you RelA, you come on, you let
Speaker 2: Parker Posy do her thing.
Speaker 3: Okay, Posy is gonna putz And let me tell you what,
Speaker 3: like what a delight? She just opens her mouth and
Speaker 3: I'm like, I just I'm like smiling immediately. I just
Speaker 3: there's something that she can just fucking eat. The scenery.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 1: She wasn't the queen of indie movies for not, like
Speaker 1: she knows what she's doing. Everybody calm down.
Speaker 2: Like you don't know how to make a choice better
Speaker 2: than her, And I would suggest you shut up.
Speaker 4: Or rewatch waiting for Guffman. You got when she.
Speaker 1: Wish In this last episode she goes scratch my arm.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, I wonder if that was a fun run.
Speaker 4: But I bowed down to Mike White.
Speaker 3: He's so good at what he does, and evidently he
Speaker 3: does it all minds by himself, which is so impressive,
Speaker 3: because I need a room full of writers to lift
Speaker 3: me up and and to help me see everything through.
Speaker 1: So brilliant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know who's going to be on the show
Speaker 2: in a few weeks, the speaking of amazing actress created
Speaker 2: by UCB Natasha Rothwell, we are so excited.
Speaker 3: A legend huge fan of hers. Ye, great, Yes, I
Speaker 3: love her all right? Oh okay, so I feel okay,
Speaker 3: I hope that.
Speaker 1: Okay, yes, okay, So this is a big moment.
Speaker 4: It's a big moment.
Speaker 1: This is Liz Films. I don't think twenty Are you ready?
Speaker 4: I don't know if I'm ready.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is Liz Films. I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: Her time starts now.
Speaker 4: I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 3: The Pete's Coffee Shop moving in across the street from
Speaker 3: the fancy Starbucks, which is next to the Blue Bottle,
Speaker 3: which is literally also across the street from a coffee
Speaker 3: bean in my neighborhood.
Speaker 4: Yes, there is an empty.
Speaker 3: Beautiful piece of retail real estate that could be literally anything,
Speaker 3: but it's going to.
Speaker 4: Be a piece coffee. Look, I have.
Speaker 3: Nothing against Pete's, and I will probably even go there
Speaker 3: first as like, just as an experiences, but then probably
Speaker 3: also just every day because it's on my side of
Speaker 3: the street. But Jesus fucking Christ, how many coffee shops
Speaker 3: can one square block hold before a fucking sinkhole forms
Speaker 3: and we all get sucked into the abyss of corporate
Speaker 3: caffeine driven capitalism? Honey, no one needs that many options
Speaker 3: for where to get a peppermint, gingerbread, caramel chuck alte.
Speaker 4: Okay, it could be literally anything seconds.
Speaker 3: It could be it could be a planned parent and
Speaker 3: it could be a trans housecare clinic.
Speaker 4: Or is next door because of r fk oh.
Speaker 1: And it's a fourth coffee shop.
Speaker 3: I wish I was exaggerating. A fourth coffee shop in
Speaker 3: one square block?
Speaker 1: Can I ask, yes, favor's favor? And why is it here?
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest, I walk past all four. However,
Speaker 3: like go to a local coffee shop?
Speaker 1: You're so right, Yeah, and I usually do. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say blue bottle, I like, I like a blue bottle,
Speaker 1: but it's Starbucks, but it's Pete eventually, but it' Starbucks
Speaker 1: blue bottle. What's the fourth coffee bean? Coffee bean a
Speaker 1: coffee There is a coffee bean.
Speaker 3: In a parking lot. It's in a parking lot right
Speaker 3: of an Alberson's.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you guys have a big Alberton's. That one's girl.
Speaker 5: Oh we used to have Albertons in Colorado. They're all
Speaker 5: gone now. I think the only ones that are left
Speaker 5: are in California. That's sad.
Speaker 1: Me mourning a chain a chain after Liz just artfully
Speaker 1: took down our corporate driven.
Speaker 3: We have nothing wrong with corporate nties, and I shop
Speaker 3: at places that are.
Speaker 1: Heart podcasts, So shape up.
Speaker 4: Yeah no, no, I.
Speaker 3: Love you, I heart I heart, but I heart I
Speaker 3: heart but but I mean but truly, Like if you're
Speaker 3: if you're gonna peel back your efforts to like help
Speaker 3: people and employ people and protect people, then I'm gonna
Speaker 3: peel back my dollars.
Speaker 1: You count it is agreed just to have four on
Speaker 1: one block.
Speaker 3: That's crazy, silly, like like when when that space opened
Speaker 3: it could we were so excited by the infinite possibilities
Speaker 3: A bagel store.
Speaker 1: May have.
Speaker 2: May have you know what's funny you wrote may have
Speaker 2: into one of my characters lines, and I had never
Speaker 2: heard anyone say the word may happen.
Speaker 1: Mayhaps. We're connected, we are, did is mayhaps in the
Speaker 1: show that I do? I say it may happen?
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Was it per snaps?
Speaker 4: Is Kelly?
Speaker 3: Kelly took mayhaps and fucking and put it on its
Speaker 3: little side for per snaps.
Speaker 1: But yeah, for snaps, mayhaps is like cool queer similar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely you you queer words. And I appreciate that as
Speaker 1: someone who also does this.
Speaker 3: Yes, we I feel like we are very sympatical. I
Speaker 3: like I love wordplay. Sorry I said it, but I do.
Speaker 3: I loved it. I'm a ladia letters and I like
Speaker 3: to I like to mix them around and make them
Speaker 3: sound fun.
Speaker 2: There was one I did that there was like a
Speaker 2: tiny little meeting about whether it was too much of
Speaker 2: a swing and you know what I'm talking about. We
Speaker 2: had we had a we had a slight snag Orny Weaver, No,
Speaker 2: you have. They were like, he has to do it
Speaker 2: the real way because we don't know, but like, we
Speaker 2: do like.
Speaker 1: It, and I was thank you.
Speaker 3: So let me tell you what made it into the show,
Speaker 3: And let me tell you what made me laugh every
Speaker 3: single fucking time, And editing we hit a little snoo corny.
Speaker 1: We that's an ad lib.
Speaker 3: When he's he's with Ray and they're well, I don't
Speaker 3: want to give anything away for people, but he's with
Speaker 3: Ray and there's maybe a room that like maybe has
Speaker 3: a little bit of a stench, and Ray's trying to say, oh,
Speaker 3: it's rat piss, and He's like, that's human pish.
Speaker 4: I know what human piss smells like. I was single ones.
Speaker 1: I loved that on him. It tells you so much
Speaker 1: about this has been so much fun.
Speaker 4: I agree, what an honor.
Speaker 3: I feel honestly like when when I was asked to
Speaker 3: come on, I really thought I was like dreaming or something.
Speaker 3: This is like, truly truly a dream, super honored. I'm
Speaker 3: a big fan of you both. I think you're both
Speaker 3: incredible humans and also just hilarious and a gift.
Speaker 1: Liz, You're a true culture maker and you literally I'm
Speaker 1: so glad we got to talk about the arc of
Speaker 1: the l words now for you, which is truly speaking
Speaker 1: to your impact and the way you put really important
Speaker 1: things into the world. And I feel like I this
Speaker 1: this is going to kill me for saying this. But
Speaker 1: I go on your Instagram and I'm like, oh, thank god,
Speaker 1: we've got like you're still on it. You're still like
Speaker 1: out there like saying the thing. We do, be saying
Speaker 1: the stuff, and it's important stuff.
Speaker 4: You say the stuff, and I love that you need to.
Speaker 1: Say the stuff more. Both of you are are motivating
Speaker 1: me to say the stuff more.
Speaker 3: I think right now the stuff needs to be said.
Speaker 3: And if we're not going to say it, who will?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, And with that, here to make friends. March fourteenth,
Speaker 2: which is a Friday, which is the best day out
Speaker 2: of It's been a lovely day. And you can stream
Speaker 2: these Netflix series Dead to Me and No Good Deed
Speaker 2: because this is the best.
Speaker 1: And we end every episode with a song.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Is that a key change? I never thought about that before.
Speaker 1: That's a key change.
Speaker 2: The Sex and the City theme has a key change.
Speaker 2: That's actually Rural culture number four, The.
Speaker 1: Sex and the City theme has a key change. Bye
Speaker 1: Love Culture Retis is the production by Will Ferrell's Big
Speaker 1: Money Players in My Heart radio.
Speaker 2: Podcasts, created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang,
Speaker 2: Executive produced by Anna Hasnier
Speaker 1: Produced by Beck Ramos, edited mixed by Doug Bammnica board
Speaker 1: and our music is by Henry Kmerski.