Speaker 1: Rita Newcomb is somebody we've known about since the arrests
Speaker 1: were made in this case back in November of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: and Rita is Angela Wagner's mother. She claimed that Angela
Speaker 1: told her that if you don't do this, they're going
Speaker 1: to hurt me. Can you imagine your daughter is basically
Speaker 1: begging you not to turn her in, and then you
Speaker 1: come to find out that she's essentially bringing you into
Speaker 1: a murder investigation and leaving you under the bus. You
Speaker 1: know a lot of times in this case, it feels
Speaker 1: like they're doing more to convict Jake and Angela than
Speaker 1: they are George. We've are in custody of his son.
Speaker 1: What did he want you teach? You get custody? This
Speaker 1: is The Pipes and Massacre Season four, episode sixteen Relevancy.
Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armshan, the television producer at Katie Studios with
Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. We're picking up after last
Speaker 1: episode's testimony from Chris Newcomb, Angela Wagner's half brother and
Speaker 1: uncle to George and Jake Wagner. On the stand now
Speaker 1: is Chris Newcomb's partner, Miranda Hughes. She opted out of
Speaker 1: video recording, but allowed audio recording of her testimony. It's
Speaker 1: important to note that George Wagner the fourth has pleaded
Speaker 1: not guilty on accounts ass as his father Billy Wagner,
Speaker 1: whose trial is upcoming. Thank you. Christ would call Randa Hughes,
Speaker 1: good morning. How are you nervous? You get that a
Speaker 1: lot from that chair. Miranda opted out of being videotaped,
Speaker 1: but allowed her verbal testimony to be recorded. Randa echoed
Speaker 1: much of Chris Newcomb's testimony about Jake and George Wagner's
Speaker 1: disconcerting die job. Were there any conversations about that at
Speaker 1: that time when you saw them with their hair dyed? Yes?
Speaker 1: And what was that? Well that? Why did they do it?
Speaker 1: And Jake said he wanted to look like I think
Speaker 1: it's name Norman reads. Norman readers, Yeah, I told him
Speaker 1: he was far from that. But both JP and George
Speaker 1: had their hair come yes, okay? And did you know
Speaker 1: who dyed their hair? Angela? And after the homicides, did
Speaker 1: that fact that they had dyed their hair cause you
Speaker 1: to think something? Yes? Okay? And what was that? Made
Speaker 1: me worry? Why? Because why would you change your parents?
Speaker 1: And then something like that happened. Randa also backed up
Speaker 1: Chris's claims about George's desire for a clock pistol. Was
Speaker 1: there ever a time weird you were present for hoping
Speaker 1: to obtain a forty caliber clock for George? Ye? Sure? Okay,
Speaker 1: Well I'm an overly objection. Do you answer stand leading questions?
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that? Yeah? He asked Chris
Speaker 1: if he knew of anybody that had a glock? Had
Speaker 1: Chris said that he didn't know of anybody at the moment,
Speaker 1: but that he could look for him. And when Chris
Speaker 1: found one, I think George wanted it. So we met
Speaker 1: up with the guy. But George wanted us to go
Speaker 1: because Chris had been the one talking to him. Okay,
Speaker 1: And did you accompany Chris? Yes? Okay? And do you
Speaker 1: remember where you met up with this individual? I don't
Speaker 1: know exactly where. I just knew it was a park
Speaker 1: and ride. Randa also made some revealing statements about how
Speaker 1: George and Jake asked her and Chris ncam to secure
Speaker 1: custody of their kids in case they went to prison
Speaker 1: after the Wagoners were charged in these offenses. Did they
Speaker 1: want you and Chris to do certain things? Yes, regarding
Speaker 1: custody of his son. What did he want you to do?
Speaker 1: Get custody? Get custody? Okay? And how do you know
Speaker 1: that because I asked? Okay, Well, George asked. Okay, George asked,
Speaker 1: and did anybody else ask you? Yes? Who else? Angela
Speaker 1: and Jake? Okay, they all three asked you, guys to
Speaker 1: try to get custody of yes, correct, And did you
Speaker 1: get an attorney to do that? Yes? But once the
Speaker 1: Wagoners were arrested, Chris and Randa abandoned their custody efforts.
Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the very first time
Speaker 1: I'm personally hearing that George and Angela and Jake wanted
Speaker 1: Chris and Randa to be the guardians of the children.
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, if you're getting arrested and
Speaker 1: going away from murder, you would want your close family
Speaker 1: member to have custody of your child. But you know,
Speaker 1: at least one of the children George's in this case
Speaker 1: had a mom who could have raised him. That being said, though,
Speaker 1: George had told Chris and Randa that he wanted them
Speaker 1: to have custody, and they were apparently pushing for that
Speaker 1: until they actually met Tabby and realized that she was
Speaker 1: not who George had made her out to be. She
Speaker 1: was actually a good mom and a nice person, and
Speaker 1: George's son had a nice life with her. So they
Speaker 1: dropped any efforts to get custody of the children after Jake, George,
Speaker 1: and Angela and Billy were finally arrested, and for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: the Wagners believed that they were the only people who
Speaker 1: could raise their children and the only people that should
Speaker 1: be raising their children. But it seems like ultimately Chris
Speaker 1: and Randa disagreed, and I still don't think we're getting
Speaker 1: the full explanation as to why that is, other than
Speaker 1: that the Wagoners simply wanted to control these children. Forensic
Speaker 1: investigator Joseph Scott Morgan sheds late on the place of
Speaker 1: Randy Hughes's testimony in the trial. With Hughes, you know,
Speaker 1: she kind of had an insight into their world that
Speaker 1: not many other people had. I think, you know, you
Speaker 1: kind of get to to peek under the covers a
Speaker 1: little bit with her. You got to see kind of
Speaker 1: some of the insights as it applied to custody issues
Speaker 1: and kids, and you know, that was the big thing
Speaker 1: you know, because that goes to motive, I think, and
Speaker 1: we have to understand that. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people are mistaken when they think about prosecution. Prosecution does
Speaker 1: not have proved motives. That's not what the purpose of
Speaker 1: this is. However, it does go to getting a feel
Speaker 1: for what family dynamic was like of the familial environment.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's very significant, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: thrilled as we get about hearing people talk about forensics
Speaker 1: and getting down into the nuts and bolts of things.
Speaker 1: I don't think that it is as significant as you know,
Speaker 1: being able to get an peak into this world. In
Speaker 1: his cross defense, attorney Richard Nash tried to pin the
Speaker 1: fascination with The Walking Dead on Jake. He was the
Speaker 1: one who modeled his killings after the show's lead character,
Speaker 1: not George the man on child. And there was some
Speaker 1: discussion speaking of hair color. Jake had told you that
Speaker 1: I think he wanted to look like Norman reads. Yes,
Speaker 1: and Norman Redis is he the main character in the
Speaker 1: Walking Day He's kind of one of the main characters
Speaker 1: of The Walking Dead. Yes, and Jake had a fascination
Speaker 1: with Norman. Yes, Okay, I saw you really give me
Speaker 1: a positive response to that. And you've watched The Walking Dead, Yes,
Speaker 1: I have, and so your familiarity with the movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how they shoot him in the head. The jury also
Speaker 1: heard about the tattoos that Billy, George, and Jake got
Speaker 1: after the murders. Jake got one of flaming pistols on
Speaker 1: his upper arms. Billy and George's were a bit more
Speaker 1: problematic again, and Geanette after the homicides, you know, about
Speaker 1: a month and a half later or so, June to
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, he and Jake and George went in they
Speaker 1: got tattoos. Billy's tattoo is a scorpion with eight notches
Speaker 1: on it, and the prosecution thinks that that holds some significance.
Speaker 1: We have eight victims in this case, and a scorpion,
Speaker 1: which can be fatal is on his right finger, which
Speaker 1: could be his trigger finger if he's right handed, and
Speaker 1: he's got this tattoo with you know, signifying something that
Speaker 1: can be deadly on his hand. George, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: has something that's an eight ball inside a skeleton's mouth
Speaker 1: with some aces on the sides playing cards. Aces. I'm
Speaker 1: not you know, I don't know if it's a coincidence.
Speaker 1: I don't. Obviously, the prosecution feels like it's significant and
Speaker 1: it's relevant that the number eight is common in these tattoos.
Speaker 1: A scorpion with eight abdominal segments, a skull binding down
Speaker 1: on an eight ball eight mode instead. Some people see
Speaker 1: the correlation. Others wonder why it's admissible. It's kind of
Speaker 1: strange because we, I guess the judge is letting the
Speaker 1: jury look at this and see if it's relevant. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's up to the jury to determine whether or not
Speaker 1: the tattoos are relevant. I'm not sure, you know, I
Speaker 1: could see the scorpion being relevant, possibly the eight ball
Speaker 1: in the skeleton's mouth. I think we just have to
Speaker 1: wait to see how the testimony plays out. Joseph Morgan
Speaker 1: is more dubious. I would have said that years ago
Speaker 1: the tattoos may have carried more weight. I think I'm
Speaker 1: recalling them my mind, you know, uh, you know, being
Speaker 1: for instance, in the Morgue, I remember a couple of
Speaker 1: cases where I had people who were legitimately folks that
Speaker 1: had worked as assassins in prison. They wanted up dying
Speaker 1: when they finally get on the outside, and they have
Speaker 1: the tear drop tattoos. You know, you always knew that
Speaker 1: point somebody that had committed a homicide, you had to
Speaker 1: chepot crosses on the hands that you know, there's little
Speaker 1: crosses with the little radiating lines that you know you
Speaker 1: can tell somebody's a drug dealer or an arm stealer,
Speaker 1: or they're an assassin. They used to tell these tales.
Speaker 1: But you know the problem is people use tattoos now
Speaker 1: to try to create an image for themselves. Maybe you
Speaker 1: can get a tattoo expert to pop up on stand
Speaker 1: and say, oh, yeah, based on the structure of this thing,
Speaker 1: this is generally associated with people that are, you know,
Speaker 1: involved in this type of behavior, particularly if you're talking
Speaker 1: about gangs and whatnot. But you know, you can say
Speaker 1: that all day long. I mean, I've seen some pretty
Speaker 1: horrific things. Images of these tattoos that people walk around
Speaker 1: in public with I don't make a killer. It just
Speaker 1: means that they've got an interest in this interesting art
Speaker 1: that they're willing to put on their body in display
Speaker 1: to the rest of the world. But that doesn't make
Speaker 1: you a perpetrator in a homicide. The jury also heard
Speaker 1: heart stirring testimony from Rita Newcombe, Angela Wagner's mother and
Speaker 1: Jake and George's grandmother. Nwcombe declined video or audio recording
Speaker 1: of her testimony. Petite with Dirty blondeire Nucomb is a
Speaker 1: devout Christian who wrestled with her daughter's actions after the
Speaker 1: murders Stephanie and Jeff. Rita wasn't tears when she testified
Speaker 1: about how she initially lied to investigators to protect her
Speaker 1: daughter and quote her grand babies, but then she soon
Speaker 1: came clean because of her faith in God, and of
Speaker 1: course once the Wagners became actual suspects steph. What I
Speaker 1: find interesting is that Rita Newcome falsely told agents with
Speaker 1: the Ohio BCI that she had signed these custody documents
Speaker 1: involving George and Jake's children as a notary public. Rita
Speaker 1: basically testified in court saying that Angela said to her, look, mom,
Speaker 1: if you don't admit this, they're going to really hurt
Speaker 1: me and possibly even kill me. And that's a brutal
Speaker 1: spot to be And can you imagine your daughter is
Speaker 1: basically begging you not to turn her in, and then
Speaker 1: you come to find out that she's essentially bringing you
Speaker 1: into a murder investigation and leaving you under the bus.
Speaker 1: She continues to describe the worst days of her life
Speaker 1: were the eight days that she spent behind bars again.
Speaker 1: Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, I think that Rita being
Speaker 1: in the midst of this just tautanic storm. There's part
Speaker 1: of me, if you can, if anybody can, feel kind
Speaker 1: of sorry for anybody that's been associated with with these
Speaker 1: horrible deeds. I think that, you know, I would list
Speaker 1: probably more toward Rita newcom in this um. You know,
Speaker 1: she's involved in this with her child. She's born witness
Speaker 1: to everything Angela has ever been involved in. I think
Speaker 1: that most parents will try to do anything that they
Speaker 1: possibly could in order to help their child. I think
Speaker 1: early on that people assume that this was a broad
Speaker 1: ranging conspiracy, and immediately they associated Rita with it, that
Speaker 1: she was part and parcel. They almost had her sitting
Speaker 1: at the kitchen table. Now, I just I just don't
Speaker 1: see that that that was the case, you know, relative
Speaker 1: to to to these homicides. And if we are to
Speaker 1: believe that that Angela is the controlling person, you know,
Speaker 1: this manipulative, you know, kind of Sungali like character that
Speaker 1: you know has sway over the entire family and how
Speaker 1: things are going to be done if Angela is that person.
Speaker 1: Did Rita perceive her daughter has maybe potentially you know,
Speaker 1: going to do harm to her, or she would have
Speaker 1: money do harm to her, And that's what makes that
Speaker 1: all the mores. We're going to take a break. We'll
Speaker 1: be back in a moment. Rita Newcomb spoke extensively about
Speaker 1: her family's legacy of abuse again long Crimes Angeanette Levy.
Speaker 1: Rita Newcomb is somebody we've known about since the arrests
Speaker 1: were made in this case back in November of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: and Rita is Angela Wagner's mother. She claimed that Angela
Speaker 1: told her that, you know, if you don't, if you
Speaker 1: don't do this, they're going to hurt me. We never
Speaker 1: got a clarification on who they are that she said,
Speaker 1: they will hurt me if you don't say you did this.
Speaker 1: She also talked about how you know, she had been
Speaker 1: married to Angela's father of course at Carter and he
Speaker 1: was abusive to both of them, I mean physically abusive,
Speaker 1: and Angela had actually gone into the Air Force at eighteen.
Speaker 1: She wanted to get away from you or bad and
Speaker 1: this whole thing. And we found out that Angela left
Speaker 1: the Air Force early allegedly because she was sexually assaulted
Speaker 1: and it was never investigated or reported. According to Rita,
Speaker 1: I find it interesting given the fact that the motive
Speaker 1: for these murders allegedly was protecting and the spear that
Speaker 1: the little girl might be molested. So it makes you wonder,
Speaker 1: is that were this concern about sexual assault or sexual
Speaker 1: abuse where it originated was with Angela's time in the
Speaker 1: Air Force. So I guess we'll find out as the
Speaker 1: case progresses. But she talked about not liking Billy Wagner.
Speaker 1: I would think that seeing a woman who's seventy plus
Speaker 1: us sitting up there crying and reliving this and admitting
Speaker 1: to lying for her daughter. But I would think the
Speaker 1: jury would take that very seriously. But again, this is
Speaker 1: George's trial, not Angela's trial. But still it paints a picture.
Speaker 1: You know, it seems like Angelo Wagner has just been
Speaker 1: painted as the ultimate villain in this story. In this trial,
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody, nobody says anything nice about Angelo Wagner
Speaker 1: in this case. The jury also heard from two PCI
Speaker 1: forensics experts, one with Special Agent Brian White, who searched
Speaker 1: the Wagner's property in June of twenty seventeen. He's now
Speaker 1: a lieutenant with the Madison County Sheriff's Office in Central Ohio.
Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Andrew Wilson questioned him on the stand and
Speaker 1: who's altu to swear a reform as the testimony were
Speaker 1: about to get the trus the whole tings and nothing
Speaker 1: about Thank you Anna a nice loud voice. Can you
Speaker 1: introduce yourself again to the journey. My name is Brian White.
Speaker 1: I'm a lieutenant with the Masson County share selves. When
Speaker 1: you were out there searching that area of two sixty
Speaker 1: Peon Road June fourteenth, June fifteenth, twenty seventeen, did ultimately
Speaker 1: you find pieces of evidence that you collected and took
Speaker 1: it into customer, Yes we did. And Une fourteenth, June
Speaker 1: fifteenth during that search, did you also have Matt White
Speaker 1: out there with you, who was from the lab. Yes,
Speaker 1: we did, and explain what his role was or what
Speaker 1: he did that day whatever. If we would find something
Speaker 1: that was firearms related through shifting, whether it be a
Speaker 1: casing or bullet or whatever, Matt would take a look
Speaker 1: at it, and then he would put it in. He
Speaker 1: would basically separate him out and to different characteristics or
Speaker 1: calibers or whatever. Okay, I'm gonna hand you what's been
Speaker 1: marked for didification purposes. I stick to give it SS five.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us what's in? I stick to give
Speaker 1: it SS five. That's a fire cartridge case two two
Speaker 1: three caliber collected June fourteenth and fifteen, twenty seventeen, two
Speaker 1: sixty Peterson Road. It's got my name on it, my initials.
Speaker 1: And again, is there a two two three firearm listed
Speaker 1: on A two? Yes, there's the Wagner's two sixty Peterson
Speaker 1: Road property, which was owned by Jake is thirteen miles
Speaker 1: from where the roads were executed. It was at this
Speaker 1: location that White recovered twenty two caliber shell case things
Speaker 1: that matched the ones found at the crime scene. The
Speaker 1: Wagners were in Alaska at this time. On the Peterson
Speaker 1: Road property, a second barn was mid construction, possibly the
Speaker 1: bc I suspected to cover up evidence again and Ginette
Speaker 1: in June to twenty seventeen BCI. This was after the
Speaker 1: Wagners had moved to Alaska. Went back to the Peterson
Speaker 1: Road property where the Wagners had lived. They had sold
Speaker 1: it in May of twenty seventeen, a month prior, and
Speaker 1: Brian White, it was like the lead crime scene agent
Speaker 1: on this case, and he said that they went back
Speaker 1: there with ground penetrating radar, just looking to see if
Speaker 1: there was anything buried underneath there, under the ground of
Speaker 1: evidentiary value. I mean, at this point in time, they
Speaker 1: were still looking for murder weapons. The lead BCI agent,
Speaker 1: Ryan Scheier, said there was a new barn that was
Speaker 1: being built and constructed on the Peterson Road property at
Speaker 1: the time of the homicides. Really, I mean part of
Speaker 1: the barn had been erected and it was under construction
Speaker 1: at the time of the homicides. And after the homicides,
Speaker 1: and so BCI had gotten the new owners to tech
Speaker 1: and talk with Jake about this, which stimulated some conversation,
Speaker 1: if you would about it. It got George to call Angela.
Speaker 1: They discussed it, and Angela was very concerned about which
Speaker 1: barn they were searching, you know, which barne She kept asking,
Speaker 1: So they were concerned about the property being searched. And
Speaker 1: George sounded like he was the one in charge, like
Speaker 1: he was the go between, you know, asking Jake. You know, hey, Jake,
Speaker 1: which Barne is it? Cause Angela wanted to know which
Speaker 1: barn So it sounded like George was very much the boss,
Speaker 1: and in that conversation at least BCI criminal intelligence analyst
Speaker 1: Julia Evislage also took the stand. She intercepted the Wagner's
Speaker 1: cell phone conversations and also monitored their social media activity.
Speaker 1: The Wagoners and the Rodents had volleyed Facebook blocks back
Speaker 1: and forth, revealing potential grudges, focusing on Hannah Rodin's Facebook
Speaker 1: and as previously mentioned, she was not currently friends with
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. From prior posts or messaging, they were at
Speaker 1: one point friends, but they weren't at the time of
Speaker 1: the return. She had blocked George Wagner's profile and Angela
Speaker 1: had blocked Hannah Rodin's. There was an assortment of relationships
Speaker 1: between Tabitha's profiles, as there are a number of them,
Speaker 1: but Hannah Rodin and Tabitha's most recent account we're friends
Speaker 1: at the time of the return, but in a world
Speaker 1: where people block each other routinely online, it's hard to
Speaker 1: know how much weight to give someone pressing a button
Speaker 1: on Facebook. And Jeanette I guess if there's some big
Speaker 1: feud going on and the families are warring with one another,
Speaker 1: of course you would have somebody blocked. Or maybe you
Speaker 1: just block somebody because you don't want them snooping on
Speaker 1: your Facebook, or maybe you just don't want that person
Speaker 1: in your business. I don't know. I thought it was
Speaker 1: strange that George, who claimed Frankie was a good friend,
Speaker 1: or at least his attorneys have claimed that Frankie was
Speaker 1: a good friend, that he had had Frankie blocked, He
Speaker 1: had Hannah May blocked. You know, all these different people
Speaker 1: had each other blocked. Is it indicative of somebody carrying
Speaker 1: out out a homicide? I guess it could be, But
Speaker 1: as far as like who who did what, or who
Speaker 1: planned and covered up, I mean, I'm not sure it's
Speaker 1: that relevant. Julia e. A Slage also played the court
Speaker 1: of fascinating intercept of George Wagner on the family's journey
Speaker 1: to Alaska. I thought Julia of A Slage's testimony was interesting.
Speaker 1: When we got to hear George Wagner. You know, it
Speaker 1: was really the first time we'd or one of the
Speaker 1: first times, I should say that we heard his voice
Speaker 1: and we heard that he can become quite agitated. It
Speaker 1: was after the family had been stopped at the border
Speaker 1: in Montana and interrogated, and he was putting his son
Speaker 1: in the car, and he was telling his little boy,
Speaker 1: who was a toddler at this time, those people back
Speaker 1: there that fed you and played with you there liars.
Speaker 1: They're bad people. They want to kill us. And the
Speaker 1: little boy was saying no, no, no, you know, and
Speaker 1: things like that. And I'm just sinking to myself as
Speaker 1: I'm listening to this. This is a grown man talking
Speaker 1: to his child who's a toddler and telling this child
Speaker 1: that the people they just saw at the border were
Speaker 1: trying to kill them. And I just found that to
Speaker 1: be so strange and unbelievable. I couldn't believe that someone
Speaker 1: would talk to a toddler like that. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. As
Speaker 1: the round of testimony wrapped up, some observers thought there
Speaker 1: was still an underwhelming amount of evidence against George Wagner.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of times in this case, it
Speaker 1: feels like they're doing more to convict Jake and Angela
Speaker 1: than they are Orge. No granted, George is not the
Speaker 1: main player in this case. The jury really just has
Speaker 1: to determine whether there's enough evidence to show that George
Speaker 1: was part of a conspiracy to commit and cover up murders.
Speaker 1: Eight murders. So that's really what they have to prove. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we all want to know, like the details. The only
Speaker 1: thing I can see is that they somehow had it
Speaker 1: in their minds and it almost seemed like a circular
Speaker 1: thing that they were all feeding off each other, thinking
Speaker 1: they were the only ones who could raise these kids
Speaker 1: in the way they wanted them raised, whatever way that was.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just sounds like it was a very
Speaker 1: insular life with a lot of yelling too. More on
Speaker 1: that next time. For more information on the case and
Speaker 1: relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Maskers produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Alan Wieter, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tua, Music by Jared Aston.
Speaker 1: The Piked in Masaker is a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Kati Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
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