1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today, You're not. People are going 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: to have to start making better content. I think we're 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: gonna be talking about this for a long time. When 4 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: you program for everyone, you program for no one. I 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're trying 6 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: to get to substance. How was that? Are you happy 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It really is? 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristin. Welcome 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: back to Adlandia. So today we're bringing back our faive 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: Sarah Fisher. Yeah, media reporter over at Axios who is 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: shedding light on all of the trends that our industry 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: needs to follow and interestingly enough, also trying to figure 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: out how to take those and apply them to the 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: mass consumer market because as an industry, we know what 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: we're putting out in the market is affecting consumers at large. Yeah. 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: I love that she's like talking about how does the media, 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: how do media trades actually speak to everyone, not just 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: the trade community, not just the industry of media tech marketing. Right. 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: We wanted to get her on and she's been um 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: covering at large the latest ruling that came down from 21 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: the d o J around the billion dollar acquisition of 22 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: Time Warner by A T and T, which has massive 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: implications and sets precedent um for industry around how telco 24 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: and content networks are able to converge. What I think 25 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: is really interesting from a marketing perspective is what's the 26 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: opportunity for marketers? And I think it gives us an 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: ability to go to A T and T and go 28 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: to UM Time Warner and strike a deal that we 29 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: haven't looked at before. Yeah, and two of the things 30 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: that have lived separately and continue to live separately until 31 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: this thing gets finalized, which you know, having worked with 32 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: the networks on the content side and trying to figure 33 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: out what is the right programming and now you know 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: something that lives separately UM around telco companies which assign 35 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: actually own your behavior around what device you're consuming content on, 36 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: when you're consuming that content, what your preferences are. You're 37 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: saying all of those sorts of things which we've had 38 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: to in the past sort of map and piecemeal. Now 39 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: all of a sudden present this opportunity for really hyper 40 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: targeted UM experience. Yeah, and I think it's a slippery 41 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: slope for content and creators on one level, but it's 42 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: also a huge opportunity for consumers to get better content 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: than they ever have and get all the wasteful content 44 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: out of the system. So with that, a quickie with 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: Sarah Fisher. We'll be right back. We're going to make 46 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: a call to our good friend, Sarah Fisher. Yes, the 47 00:02:54,360 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: head media reporter over at Axios. M m m mmm, 48 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: Hello Sarah Fisher, Good morning, Welcome to ed Landia again. 49 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: Welcome back, welcome, thank you. How's it going. It's good 50 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: you tell us how it's going. You've been really busy 51 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: covering this big news around the d j's decision to 52 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: just go for it and let a T and T 53 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: by Time Warner for billion. That's b billion dollars. So 54 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: everyone's talking about this, Sarah. What does it mean? Like, 55 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: what does it mean to the industry, What does it 56 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: mean to marketers? What does it mean to advertising? What 57 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: are you singing? And who are you talking to about it? Yeah, 58 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: So it was pretty unprecedented when the DJ decided to 59 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: sue to block the merger last full everyone thought this 60 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: is a pro industry, republican administration. They're going to be 61 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: really pro Merger's acquisition ends and they were and when 62 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: they saw that the DJ sued to block it, people 63 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: are pretty shocked. I mean A T. T. Time Warner 64 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: thought this was a shoe him. So when the U. S. 65 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: District Judge, Judge Richard Leon decided to let the merger 66 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: go through, the first narrative that came out was this 67 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: merger should have never been contested to begin with. The 68 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: only reason the d J sued to block it is 69 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: because Trump didn't want to win for CNN, which is 70 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: one of the cable networks owned by Time Warner. I 71 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: just heard that on NPR. By the way, I mean 72 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: people have been that's exactly. That's like a huge narrative. 73 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: Banana banana banana yea great ad um. Yeah, No, I 74 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: mean it's a it's been an ongoing narrative throughout the 75 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: case that I will say. In the beginning of the trial, 76 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: right before the official trial started, they had a bunch 77 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: of reporters come in and meet um with all parties 78 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: and they were talking about A. T and T was 79 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: talking about why it's uh, the lawsuit was ridiculous. And 80 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: one of the arguments that they made is they said 81 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: that we thought this was politically charged. The judge at 82 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: the time, Judge truth Leon kind of actually ruled in 83 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: favor of the d J and said, no, it's not 84 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: politically charged. There could actually be a harm to consumers 85 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: with this merger. But I will tell you what was 86 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: that harm though, What did they identify it was? The 87 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: harm is? The harm is this. It's a little bit wonky, 88 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: but it's important for people if you're a media nerd 89 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: like me. The harm is that people were worried that 90 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: if you gave an internet service provider like a T 91 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: and T UH content arm like Time Warner, that they 92 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: would leverage the exclusivity of having certain channels like HBO, 93 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: like t n T, TBS, CNN, and they would say 94 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: to their consumers, look, you're gonna get these channels only 95 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: with us, so we can charge you more for your 96 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: pay TV, your linear TV package. Now, what the d 97 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: J is saying is that this is harmful to consumers 98 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: because if you raise the price on them a that's 99 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: an undue burden. But be then all your competitors rising 100 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: podcast will also have to rease their price. Now, it 101 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: was up to Richard Leon, the judge, the district judge, 102 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: to determine whether or not. He thought the d o 103 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: J made the case that this could potentially lift prices 104 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: to the point of a burden on consumers. And what 105 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: Leon said yesterday was you failed, d J. You failed 106 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: to make that argument. And so I sat in court 107 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: a long time. I think what was really hard to 108 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: understand was what is the point of price increase in 109 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: which it would be a problem for consumers? Right Jay 110 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: was saying it would be about four or five cents 111 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: a month, which adds up to like, you know, six 112 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: dollars a year, four million dollars across all consumers for 113 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 1: a year. And I think what Leon was saying yesterday 114 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: in his descent was I just don't think that you 115 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: were able to prove that that's a significant enough burden 116 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: on consumers. So he left the whole thing go through 117 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: without any divestiture packages, without any behavioral remedies, which would 118 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: be promises that a T n T wouldn't, you know, 119 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: exploit its dominance. And I gotta tell you, I was 120 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: even a little bit surprised that it was such a 121 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: clear cut ruling, because goodness, this thing got so dramatic. 122 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: The judge calls all the reporters in. He doesn't let 123 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: anyone have phones or laptops. He doesn't let anyone even 124 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: leave the room into the full ruling is read. It 125 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: was a little bit dramatic given the fact that media Yeah, yeah, 126 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: usually these kind of district court decisions, you just put 127 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: up a ruling online and I mean, this is this 128 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: is a big merger. But we've seen even bigger mergers, 129 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, So the whole thing turned into a spectacle. 130 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, yeah, it's going 131 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: to usher in a new wave of consolidation across media, 132 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: tech and telecom that will affect every advertiser, every marketer, brand, 133 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: media company really indefinitely. But can you talk about you 134 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: said this is big ramifications for the industry. Um, you 135 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: alluded to the fact that there are other tech companies. 136 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: Now obviously there's you know, other examples of this playing 137 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: out in the marketplace. Can you talk about what message 138 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: this sends to other tech companies, other media platforms in 139 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: what's possible and then we can get a little bit 140 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: into how does that affect the people in the business 141 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: in terms of how and how we're buying and planning 142 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: in the space. I would So there's a couple of things. 143 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: One is that the decision supported a vertical merger, which 144 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: means a merger between two companies and different markets. Obviously, 145 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: a T and T is a telecom company, they own, um, 146 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, they have a broadband business, they have a 147 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: mobile business, and then Time Warners a content company. And 148 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: so this is a signal to all the other corporations 149 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: out there that are trying to merge with corporations that 150 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: are in different markets that hey, this judge or this 151 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: administration is going to be more lenient about letting those 152 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: things pass through. So basically it's set a precedent. Is 153 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: this almost a necessary step inconsolidation to get to the 154 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: valhalla of personalization that everyone talks about? Yes, So I 155 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 1: will say this, what can you expect? I mean, there's 156 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: a lot of other telecom companies out there that are 157 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: buying up content arms that are probably gonna want to 158 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: buy a video content arms. The biggest standouts for me 159 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: is Verizon. We know that Verizon wanted to go in 160 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: and buy CBS. Sherry Redstone said no, So there are 161 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: other telecom companies interested in buying video content partners. Um, 162 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: there's also tech companies out there, though I will say 163 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: tech companies like Apple like um, Amazon, you know, yeah, 164 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: I mean those companies they're a little I would say 165 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: they're a little bit less likely to buy actual TV networks. Um. 166 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: For a few reasons. One, it conflates sort of the 167 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: editorial responsibility that they've so many of them have shied 168 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: away from. When you actually own a network, things changed, 169 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: particularly a lot of these TV networks owned news channels. 170 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: That's really hard. I'm actually curious to see how a 171 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: t T manages a news network like CNN and all 172 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: the burden that comes with that. But the other thing 173 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: is that tech has so much money and free cash flow. Yeah, 174 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure you can dump it into buying a content company, 175 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: but a lot of times they're just buying up franchises 176 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: and talent, So they're just buying up shan the rhymes. 177 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: They don't need to buy ABC. They could just buy 178 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: the town that's producing the same type of content without 179 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: having to actually have the burden of ABC News and 180 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Yeah, and this is so 181 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: if we could go back in time, um, Alexa and 182 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 1: I had worked on some trendspotting what was that one 183 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: or two years ago now, And Yeah, one of the 184 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: key themes that we were rallying around was the idea 185 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: that tech companies, we're going to become the new M 186 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: S O S. Right, So, if you think about what 187 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: you just said in not having the need to go 188 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: and buy the network, they're creating the network. Right When 189 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: you see the massive paychecks that you know, Amazon and Apple, etcetera. 190 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: Are writing in Hollywood, that is a huge signal um 191 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: in thinking about where and how they're competing in terms 192 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: of what they're choosing to buy as opposing to choose 193 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: to acquire. If that and acquisitions are tough. First of all, 194 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of synergies that usually comes with layoffs. 195 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: It usually comes with a lot of legal complications. It 196 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: also comes with cultural barriers. I mean, I look at 197 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: this from a T and T and time war I 198 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: mean a T, T S headquartered in Texas. This is 199 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: gonna be a really hard company to integrate. So you're right, 200 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: and that tech companies they have the cash just kind 201 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: of buy out the assets that they need to create 202 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: their own I would look the next immediate step is 203 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: look for how this affects telecom. So you know that 204 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: Comcast is trying to outcome, swoop in and get an 205 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: eat of Fox Remember, Comcasts already bought NBC Universal about 206 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: seven years ago, so there are some people who are 207 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: worried about it. Just because A T and T and 208 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: Time water past doesn't mean every vertical merger will pass. 209 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: They all have to go through their own regulatory scrutiny. 210 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: But how it affects advertising and media marketing is so 211 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: interesting because throughout this entire trial, A T and T 212 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: was arguing, we need this merger to go through so 213 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: that we could compete in the market with the fan 214 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: companies that facebooks and apples and Googles and netfliks of 215 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,239 Speaker 1: the world. And for a lot of those big competitors, 216 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: they're able to sell data driven advertising. We can't. We 217 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: can't do it because we don't have the you know, 218 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: content to sell it against, et cetera. So that's a 219 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: huge benefit, uh for the the telcom companies is that 220 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: they finally have content that they could sell ads against. Remember, 221 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: they've had the data forever. If you if you're set 222 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: top box that you have in your living room has everything. 223 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: It has all of your Web data and has all 224 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: of your TV data. The problem is they just had 225 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: no nothing really to sell it against. So now this 226 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: gives them a constant on to sell it against uh 227 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: And I would expect you see those charts that have 228 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: the duopoly off the you know, the off the charts, 229 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: and how much advertising growth they're going to get, I 230 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: would expect this to start to eat at that a 231 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: little bit. How much. Who knows, a lot of people 232 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: say it will never take down the duopoly. Some people 233 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: say they'll make a significant impact. I think collectively they 234 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: could start to do some work and kind of evening 235 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: out the playing field. And by the way, that's done 236 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,119 Speaker 1: entirely by design. This administration had an approach to technology 237 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: a very different than the Obama administration. Neither right or 238 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: wrong depends on your beliefs that in order to curb 239 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: the power of some of the tech giants that have 240 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: become monopolistic like Google and Facebook, you should deregulate legacy 241 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: industries like telecom, newspapers, and broadcasts to allow them to compete. 242 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: So this notion of the fact that telecom companies are 243 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: not gonna be able to sell your data for advertising purposes, 244 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: that's because this administration, through Congress and then was signed 245 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,599 Speaker 1: by the President, passed a law that allowed them to 246 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: do it up until no telecom company could sell that data. 247 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: So why are all these versions happening. It's a part 248 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: of a larger push by the Trump administration to have 249 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: a more lazy, fair economic view towards media and consolidation, 250 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: to let some of these legacy players compete with the 251 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: tech giants hund to present. You know, I just see 252 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: this simply as like two things on the telecast side. 253 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: On the tech side, they don't, to your point, want 254 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: to have the burden of creating the content. And these 255 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: giant networks on the content side, they actually don't have 256 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: the distribution means anymore that they used to. They're fighting 257 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: the you know, the facebooks and the Googles, our networks 258 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: now getting to go DTC. Does that make sense? I mean, 259 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: that's that's exactly right, that's exactly right. Now. I will 260 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: say this, one of the these networks see themselves as wholesalers. 261 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: John Martin, the president of Turner, he said in court 262 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: countless times, I don't even know the names of the 263 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: people that watch any of my networks. I don't even 264 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: know anything about them because the people who have the 265 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: direct relationships with them in the telecom companies. You pay 266 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: your telecom company every month. You're not paying CNN, you're 267 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: not paying Turner. So now it kind of removes them 268 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: from that wholesaler position and it allows them to get 269 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: to a more direct to consumer relationship with television. I 270 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: will say this the one thing that got really complicated 271 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: during the trial. It's like, what the heck do you 272 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: do about streaming? Because if you are a T and 273 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: T and you own direct TV now and you now 274 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: have access to some of the biggest and most necessary 275 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: content in a skinny bundle i e. CNN, TNT, TBS, etcetera, 276 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: are you going to use that leverage and withhold it 277 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: from all the other skinny bundles like slings, Dish Dishes, 278 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: Sling or PlayStation view. That was another big argument during 279 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: the trial, basically, by allowing this thing to go through 280 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: with no concessions, the judges saying, I do an you 281 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: can do what you want, but also I trust that 282 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: you're not going to do that, because A T and 283 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: T said over and over and over again that they won't. 284 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: But I gotta tell you, I'm not meaning to be cynical. 285 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be a little bit of a contrariant. 286 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: When we allowed this to go through between Comcast and 287 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: NBC seven years ago, a lot of promises were made 288 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: that we're not upheld. So I think that's one thing 289 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: that the market should be kind of aware of, especially 290 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: if you're a marketer or if you're somebody who is 291 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: buying ans across a lot of these platforms, is like, 292 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: this might not be super peachy. There's gonna be a 293 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: lot of complications. There's gonna be a lot of drama 294 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: as the thing gets pushed through and enforced, and so 295 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: time will tell how it all works out. But we're 296 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: kind of relying on a T and C and time. 297 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: What are being of good faith here? Uh and being 298 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: good brokers in this market now that they are like 299 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: a mega company. Yeah, because as a buyer, like my 300 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: first is a great opportunity. My first Yeah that that 301 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: that's like the first thought going through my head as 302 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: a trained buyer is saying, like this eliminates so many 303 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: hurdles and barriers to get to a consumer in a 304 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: way that now the data is around the pipes, the 305 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: data and the behavior, I can actually start matching up, 306 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: start seeing the connection. And we all know that at 307 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: the end of the day, you can test as many 308 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: things as you want, but if you don't have great 309 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: content to test with, like, to me, the content is 310 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: the thing that you chum the waters with right to 311 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: get to get people interacting. So like everybody knows like 312 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: and this is obviously where ad tech comes into playing 313 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: all these sorts of things is as a media buyer 314 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: in the marketplace, you know that you have this content 315 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: company over here who is making great things, and like, 316 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: we have the ability to target people across our ecosystem, etcetera. 317 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: But we all know that there was the potential for 318 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: it for there to be a breakdown once you got 319 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: to the device level, and what was the reliability to 320 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: target from set top box to mobile, etcetera. Well, now, 321 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: if I'm in the A T and T Universe game 322 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: on game on, I think the key part in understanding 323 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: the particular opportunity about A T and T time warner 324 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: is that they hired Brian Lesser from Group M about 325 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: a year and a half ago, and he has been 326 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: developing this at tech Stack for months. Like, It's not 327 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: like they're gonna by the time this deal goes through, 328 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 1: he will have had two years of creating an attack 329 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: product that will be pretty much ready to go to market, 330 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: which is very different than just kind of starting from scratch, 331 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: starting from the beginning. So what does that attack look like? Essentially, 332 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: they're taking the stack from CNN, all the things that 333 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: they've used to deploy digital because I'm a Comcast hasn't 334 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: really sold anything like across app, properties and web in 335 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: a really sophisticated way the way that CNN as. And 336 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: then we're gonna take CNN's mostly content and then they're 337 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: gonna match it with a their data and be their plans. 338 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: I think it'll be great for marketers. I think it'll 339 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: be good. UM. I know that it was a big 340 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: worrying court that wow, what if what if like Comcast, 341 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: an NBC and an A T time one are like 342 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: teamed up it created like an amazing data driven products. 343 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: They think they're going to be able to, you know, 344 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: sell off things TV content at a higher premium and 345 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: a higher CPM because it will be able to be 346 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: more customizable and targetable. That's that's a big thing that 347 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: they a big reason that they want to get into 348 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: this game. UM, I would expect if I had to 349 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: give out like a timeline of sorts that you will 350 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: be able to as a Marketer be able to go 351 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: in and start leveraging these opportunities in I do think 352 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: one hard part about this is that storytelling is not 353 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: at the core of a telecom company's business model. And 354 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: this is something that is very scary for the folks 355 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: I know over century thoughts they will say. John Langraff 356 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: told me, the president of f X, said the thing 357 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: that he's happy about with merging with Disney is at 358 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: least storytelling is at the heart of their business model. 359 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: They're going to be able to make corporate decisions based 360 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,239 Speaker 1: around how they're gonna be able to tell the best 361 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: stories and create the best content. That's just not the 362 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: case of a T and T. Their business model is 363 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: to accrue consumers through either a brobin or a wireless plan. 364 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: And so when that is the core of your focus, 365 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: you can imagine that the P and l's get changed 366 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: and that the same type of focus on content that 367 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: you know some of these networks experience Undertime Warner. I 368 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: don't think it will you go away. I don't think 369 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: it's gonna be damaged, but it's not going to be 370 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: the same. And so as it comes to creativity, this 371 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: is the conversation that a lot of people in the 372 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: industry are having is Once the tech and telecom companies 373 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: who are not storytellers buy up all the storytellers are, 374 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: the storyteller is going to be free to tell as 375 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: good as stories and tell them independently. That is a concern. 376 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: That is a very very serious concern. Does this have 377 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: the potential to change the way now Turner bundles and 378 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,719 Speaker 1: sells their content with or without advertising. Yeah, I mean again, 379 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: the big fear in court was that Turner would now 380 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: merged with a T and T, give their content to 381 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: a T and T skinny bundle which is called direct 382 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: TV now, and then a T and T would have 383 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: the leverage to say, hmm, competitors, YouTube live, who live 384 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: you can't have it, we own it. That's a big fear. 385 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: I will say that the Turner folks argue, look, we 386 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 1: need to have as widespread distribution as possible. We're not 387 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: interested in just being on a T and T skinny 388 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: bundle like we want to be on everyone's so well. 389 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: Time will tell if people keep their promises by not 390 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: withholding the content. But this could have a very big 391 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: impact on the skinny bundle landscape. I will say if 392 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: you're a satellite company, which remember Direct TV, owned by 393 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: A T and T is a satellite company. You are 394 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: hemorrhaging subscribers right now. Hemorrhaging people are com with some 395 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: of these companies. I mean cable companies are too, but 396 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: satellite companies that are particularly off spot and they don't 397 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: always have broadband businesses to recoup the losses, so they're 398 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: really pivoting strong to the skinny bundle streaming space to 399 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: make up for it. Those two companies that can give 400 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: you where the biggest examples are direct TV, which is 401 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: owned by A T and T, and then Swing, which 402 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: is on by Dish, which is also a satellite company. 403 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: The problem that these guys are going to have, though, 404 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: I will say, is a skinny bundle is nowhere near 405 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: the cost of a pay TV package. If you're paying 406 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: forty dollars for a skinny bundle, and these teleco companies 407 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 1: were used to getting a hundred dollars a month for 408 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: you from you for pay TV, the margins there are staggering, 409 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: and so yes, these companies need to push people into 410 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: skinny bundles to recoup the losses. But will the margins 411 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: even out, No, which is why they need to invest 412 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: in attack to make up for that. So what I 413 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: think it's so interesting here is skinny bundles also mean 414 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: you have to have great content that is coveted by 415 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: the audience, right, so like people aren't It's not just 416 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: like hey, I just want my basic able. What puts 417 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: pressure to create great content? And look at what Netflix 418 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: has been doing. It's pouring billions. This is so to 419 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: your points there are like it's a billion dollar game here, 420 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: that too that they may not recoup. So what's the answer. 421 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: There's two things right. One is Netflix is a subscription 422 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: video on demand, whereas the skinny bundles offer live programming. 423 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 1: So actually a T and T doesn't see Netflix as 424 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: a competitor in this. They're not worried about the telcos 425 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: don't worry about Netflix. They actually see Netflix as a 426 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: really good marketing ploy of like, oh, you get a 427 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: free month of Netflix with your PATVS package or whatever 428 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: it is. But yes, when you're talking about I think 429 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: that's limited, don't use Sarah. Don't you think that's like 430 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: only for a short amount of time here? It depends. 431 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: It depends like with the skinny bundles with the live programming, 432 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: as you were saying, you can only have like forty channels. 433 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: Netflix is indefinite with the forty channels though in creating 434 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: good programming. You're absolutely right. No skinny bundle is going 435 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: to take a long tail channel. I was talking to 436 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: the president of the Broadcasters Association. I said, what happens 437 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: if your viacom and you have all these like MTV threes, 438 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: all these long tailed channels. Those are going to make 439 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: skinny bundles. What happens to them? He's like, they'll die out. 440 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: They're right, Sarah, Before we let you go back to 441 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: the grind of what do you think are one of 442 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: the other big trends that you're chasing? Yes, so M 443 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: and I is just going to continue to be huge. 444 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: I think I'm having a lot of conversations right now 445 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: about the there was such a diversion of attention towards 446 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: some of the core principles that we were focusing on 447 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: a lot last year before Russia, before election meddling, which 448 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: was measurement um and viewability and just sort of understanding 449 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: how advertising effectiveness plays into campaigns. And I think that 450 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: now a lot of the dust has settled between elections 451 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: and the tech lash and some of these deals. I 452 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: think you're gonna have a rise and refocus in measurement. 453 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: And we saw this. I don't know if you guys 454 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: saw that Integral ad Science was purchased for fifty million 455 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: dollars or least that's the number that we've been given. 456 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: Um that's because there's a value right now in measurement, 457 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: and there's a value and attribution. So I'd say that's 458 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: going to be another key theme that we look at 459 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: heading into the rest of the summer. And then I'd 460 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: say the other is just kind of keeping an eye 461 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: on all of the programming trends. What's effective, what's not effective. 462 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that Roseanne was really hot 463 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: until she's sort of shot herself in the foot. We're 464 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: gonna go into are killed by d I y all 465 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: this conversation and the tech lash is really going to 466 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: be something that I would say kill. At this point, 467 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: we are having a new headline every week about Facebook 468 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: sold this bad in a bad way to this, or 469 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: Google is bad at this, or the UK Parliament wants 470 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: to find this. I think consumers are just saturated by 471 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: the narrative. We're over it. I think I would just 472 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: kill the whole tech lash narrative especially, and I think 473 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: about that as a reporter, even in my reporting, just 474 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: because look, it's not like we have a single bill 475 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: from Congress that's going to pass it's actually hitting these companies. 476 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: It's not like there's any meaningful regulation that's actually coming 477 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: in the near future. So I would kill that, right, Okay, 478 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: what would you buy? I think there's new B two 479 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: B ad tech um trend. It's not super new. I 480 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: mean we saw that Salesforce, Bark CrOx, Oracle bought Mote, 481 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: Integral ad Science just sold. But I think that everyone 482 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: sees Atteck as going through this, you know, uh, pivotal 483 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: moment of consolidation. But the consolidation is to these big 484 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: B two B players like Salesforce and Oracle and others. 485 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: And I'm going to keep my eye and I'm going 486 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: to keep looking at that and thinking of that as 487 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: being a good thing because it's empowering some of the 488 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: really hot B two B tech companies to really get 489 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: into the ad game and again start to kind of 490 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: chip away at the Duopolis dominance. Yes, that is actually 491 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: more on that on a different episode, because that is 492 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: a huge topic in and of itself that we don't 493 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: talk about enough. All right, what would you do yourself? 494 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: I think I would start to think about, as a reporter, 495 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: how I'm going to cover a lot of these really 496 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: confusing topics in a way that makes it more digestible 497 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: and friendly to a regular person like my mom or 498 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: my sister, as opposed to a trade audience like even 499 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: coming on this podcast, the three of us are just 500 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: totally nerd ing out. And I think one of the 501 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: things that I'm realizing is that these trends affect people. 502 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: They affect the price of your cable bill, they affected 503 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: price your phone bill, And how can we think about 504 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: ways to tell the story of what's happening in our 505 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: time to people who's actually affecting in a way that's 506 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: not super inside baseball. So that's one thing I want 507 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: to work on and do myself a little bit better. 508 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: I think we should do that together, because I mean, 509 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: the whole the Atlantea was actually founded on, one of 510 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: those things was this shouldn't just be for the industry. 511 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: This should be for people who are just interested in 512 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: what's happening in media, marketing, communication, unaffected by the work 513 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: that goes out exactly Sara Fisher, thank you. Thanks guys, 514 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: I thank you Sarah Fisher, always super smart, always on 515 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: the front lines, getting us the information we need to 516 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: make informed decisions. So thank you. Thank you, Matt Turk, 517 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: Andy Bowers, Jacob Weisberg, our friends and family, and Panoply. 518 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: We'll be back in two weeks. M H. Full disclosure. 519 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: Our opinions are our own.