1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: Imagine you were accused of brutally killing your parents. Imagine 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: you were thankfully acquitted of the crime, but everyone in 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: your city followed your highly publicized trial and they were 6 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: all convinced you were a murderer. Now, imagine if you 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: took your inheritance from your parents untimely demise and bought 8 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: one of the most ostentatious homes in your city instead 9 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: of moving elsewhere where, perhaps you wouldn't be so recognizable. 10 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: And imagine if you lived the rest of your days there, 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: a full thirty four years of daily taunts, glares, and 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: hushed whispers as you passed by. You, my friends, have 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: put yourselves in the shoes of Lizzie Borden, and we're 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: not headed to the infamous home where her father and 15 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: stepmother were hacked to death. We're headed to a place 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: much more important to Lizzie, a place where many believe 17 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: her spirit is still as present there today as it 18 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: was when she was alive. Come with me to Maplecroft. 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: I'm Amy Bruney, and welcome to Haunted Road. On August four, 20 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety two, Abbey and Andrew Borden were found murdered 21 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: in their home in Fall River, Massachusetts. Andrew was famously 22 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: found lying on the couch, his head nearly split into 23 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: Abbey was found in an upstairs bedroom, lying in a 24 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: pool of blood, her head bludgeoned multiple times. Like many 25 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: notorious murders of this era, the weapon used was an axe. 26 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: Suspicion quickly turned to Andrew Borden's daughter Ze. Other than 27 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: the maid, Lizzie was the only person home at the 28 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: time of the murders. It was rumored there was much 29 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: turmoil in the home because Andrew was known to be miserly, 30 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: even though he was supposedly worth a fortune. Lizzie and 31 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: her sister Emma regularly fought with Andrew over this, and 32 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: they also despised their stepmother Abby. The murder trial was 33 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: sensational and was followed via the press worldwide. However, every 34 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: bit of evidence the prosecution presented was deemed to be circumstantial. Still, 35 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: Lizzie's story changed multiple times. It was rumored she attempted 36 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: to buy poison days before the murders, and that she 37 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: burned dresses days after the crime. The apparent murder weapon, 38 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: an axe found in the basement, was never fingerprinted because 39 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: the Fall River police were wary of that new technology. 40 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: All of this, paired with Lizzie's wholesome upbringing and image, 41 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: convinced the Jerry to acquit her. After nearly a year 42 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: in jail, Lizzie was acquitted in June, but acquittal or not, 43 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: the community of Fall River still very much believed Lizzie 44 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: had committed the crimes, and they weren't shy about saying it. 45 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: So Lizzie and her sister did what any normal person 46 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: who had been accused of murder in a close knit 47 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: town would do. They used the inheritance of their fathers 48 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: to buy a fourteen room mansion on the hill, the 49 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: wealthiest part of town, and proceeded to live the lifestyle 50 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: Lizzie hit always dreamed of, right in front of everyone 51 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: who thought she had killed her parents and old time friends. 52 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: In twilight plays and starry nights and sunny days, come 53 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: trooping up the misty ways when my fire burns low. 54 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: These words are carved above the fireplace in the library 55 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: at Maplecroft and seemed to indicate the hope that Lizzie 56 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: had for her new life. The poem itself is taken 57 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: from a common school English literature textbook published in eighteen 58 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: seventy six. However, Lizzie seems to have changed the last 59 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: line because it originally stated when my cows come home. 60 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: Definitely not as romantic. Lizzie and her sister Emma moved 61 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: into Maplecroft in September of eighteen. Lizzie dubbed the house 62 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: Maplecroft at that time and had the name etched on 63 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: the front steps, though no one can find her source 64 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: for the name. The home almost immediately drew considerable interest, 65 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: Boasting fourteen rooms, eight of which were bedrooms, was numerous 66 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: bathrooms in a modest six fireplaces. It was one of 67 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: the largest homes on the hill at the time. The 68 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: Fall River Daily Globe reported that it almost immediately became 69 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,799 Speaker 1: a mecca of innumerable sightseers. Year after year, the public 70 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: was not kind to Lizzie. Children constantly through gravel at 71 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: her windows, disturbed her lawn, threw rotten eggs at the house, 72 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: and ding dong ditched her. Hilda Gifford, the daughter of 73 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: a Fall River jeweler, lived nearby. On Halloween, she and 74 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: her friends would draw straws. The loser had to ring 75 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: Lizzie's doorbell. A morbid but now very well known rhyme 76 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: began making its rounds locally. Lizzie Borden took an X 77 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: and gave her mother forty wax. When she saw what 78 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: she had done, she gave her father forty one. Andrew 79 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: Borden is now dead. Lizzie hit him on the head 80 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: up in heaven. He will sing on the gallows. She 81 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: will swing as time passed. Reports were that Lizzie lived 82 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: as a recluse. Her best friends prior to the murders 83 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: abandoned her. The society she participated in prior to the 84 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: trial snubbed her. Afterwards, she was ostracized, an outcast, and 85 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: it's described that when she walked down the street, her 86 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: nearest neighbors passed her by without a nod or sign 87 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: of recognition. But there are glimmers and reports of a 88 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: different Lizzie emerging. In nineteen o five, she legally changed 89 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: her name to Elizabeth. The company she lacked from humans 90 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: she made up for with her animals. She had two 91 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: purebred French bulldogs who rarely left her side, and singing 92 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: canaries in her home. She had squirrel houses built around 93 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: maple croft, and she would feed them herself, allowing the 94 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: little animals to climb her arms and sit on her shoulders. 95 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: She sent her friend's children birthday cards and signed them 96 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: Anti Borden. She played cribbage under the trees and gathered 97 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: wildflowers on warm summer days. She hired chauffeurs and live 98 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: in maids, and visited her father's grave in the winter. 99 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: The cemetery foreman Terence J. Lomax had his men shovel 100 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: a path to the Boorden plot for her. Lizabeth also 101 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: brought some of the first cars to the neighborhood. She 102 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: owned a nineteen twenty three Lincoln and a nineteen Buick. 103 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: Most notably, by that time, she was known to have 104 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: her chauffeur pull over when she saw children so she 105 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: could pass out candy to them. In the midst of 106 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: all this, there was one relationship that deteriorated to the 107 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: point of no return, that of Elizabeth and her sister Emma. 108 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: Keep in mind Elizabeth and Emma's mother died of uterine 109 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: congestion a few years after Elizabeth was born. Their mother 110 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: made then twelve year old Emma promised she would look 111 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: after Elizabeth, a promise she upheld until nineteen o five. 112 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: Elizabeth apparently befriended a Boston actress by the name of 113 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: Nance O'Neil. Some reports indicate the friendship may have been 114 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: more than platonic, but this remains unverified. Apparently, Emma tired 115 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: of Elizabeth's frivolity with not only their funds but their privacy, 116 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,119 Speaker 1: as Elizabeth began entertaining friends she met in Boston. For years, 117 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: it was an open secret that Elizabeth and Emma did 118 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: not agree and were constantly at odds in the home, 119 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: but the parties were the fine an old straw, and 120 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: after some urging from friends, Emma packed her belongings and 121 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: left the French Street mansion, never again to set foot 122 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: within its doors or talk to Elizabeth. It's hard to 123 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: imagine what transpired between those two sisters over so many years, 124 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: from the moment a dying mother begged her twelve year 125 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: old child to look after her little sister, to the 126 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: horrifying murders, to the moment that door slam shut as 127 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: Emma never looked back. Elizabeth's health began to decline in 128 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: nineteen six, and she would not recover. It was discovered 129 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: by the local press that a Mary Smith Borden, who 130 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: had checked into Providence Hospital with gallbladder trouble, was actually Elizabeth. 131 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: It was also reported that she was a troublesome patient. 132 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: There are various explanations for her eventual death in nineteen 133 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: seven at the age of sixty seven. Some say heart disease, 134 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: others say pneumonia, but she most certainly died at Maplecroft 135 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: and was waked in the parlor her A handful of 136 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: friends supposedly attended a funeral service in the home, Yet 137 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: a soloist hired to sing a hymn during the service 138 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: said otherwise. In her words, she rang the bell and 139 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: a gentleman said, follow me. You're to stand beside the fireplace. 140 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: She says, So I stood there and sang that song 141 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: to an empty room. I never saw a soul but 142 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: that one man. After the wake, Elizabeth was buried at 143 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: sunset with only the undertaker's assistance. Present. Rumors are that 144 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: she demanded a concrete slab be put over her coffin 145 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: to deter curiosity seekers and grave robbers from disturbing her 146 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: final resting place. Her final resting place which happens to 147 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: be next to her father and stepmother in the family plot. 148 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: At the time of her death, Elizabeth was worth over 149 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: two hundred fifty thousand dollars almost five million dollars by 150 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: today's standards. Her will left sizeable donations to the local 151 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: animal rescue, plus smaller sums to numerous cousins and friends. 152 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: She also left money to tend to her father's grave 153 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: in perpetuity to her sister, she left nothing, saying she 154 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: had the means to look after herself. Nine days after 155 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: Elizabeth's death, and after twenty two years of not speaking, 156 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: Emma Boorden passed away in her home in Newmarket, New Hampshire. Emma, too, 157 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: was buried in the family plot in Fall River. So 158 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: why why did Lizabeth remain in Fall River all those 159 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: years staring down her detractors when she could have so 160 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: easily gone elsewhere and started fresh. To quote Lizabeth directly, 161 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: when the truth comes out about this murder, I want 162 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: to be living here so I can walk down town 163 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: and meet those of my old friends who have been 164 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: cutting me for all these years. It's been over one 165 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: hundred twenty five years, and no one else was ever arrested. 166 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: For the murders, and speculation is intense even today. It 167 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: makes you wonder if Lizabeth still walks the halls of 168 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: Maplecroft waiting for her moment of vindication. Personally, I absolutely 169 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: think that she does. And coming up next we'll talk 170 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: about why. So I'm here now with Sue Vigory, who 171 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: is an integral part of not only Maplecroft but also 172 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: the original murder house, the Lizzie Boarden House that's so 173 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: famous as well, and she has positions in both locations. 174 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: At the Lizzie Boarden House she is a tour guide, 175 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: but at Maplecroft she is the caretaker. And so she's 176 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: here to answer some of my questions about Maplecroft and 177 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: tell us some of the more interesting experiences people have 178 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: had their including herself, plus what she thinks is actually 179 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: going on there. So let's ask her a few questions. 180 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: Thanks for being here, Sue, my pleasure. So how long 181 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: have you been working in the realm of Lizzie Borden? Uh? 182 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: And then about ten years? I'd say, okay, So you 183 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: started at I hate to call it this, but you 184 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: started at the murder House, right and and uh did 185 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: you start as a tour guide? I did, Yes, Okay, 186 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: And now that you're working at both houses, which house 187 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: do you find yourself drawn to more? Well, that's tough 188 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: to say. I'm drawn to both houses. You know, I 189 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: was always fascinated by her entire life. Being able to 190 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: come into Maplecroft was really a bucket list. I never 191 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: thought i'd see that that was a process. I mean, 192 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: it seemed like, you know, Maplecroft has been privately owned 193 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: for so long, and it just seemed only fitting that 194 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: the folks who owned the Second Street house would end 195 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: up purchasing Maplecroft. And I think the original intent was 196 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: to open it up to the public right, to make 197 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: it a bed and breakfast. Yeah, that's what they wanted 198 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: to do, bed and breakfast, or we would have settled 199 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: for tours. The city won't allow either. That's unfortunate because 200 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, Fall River is actually a 201 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: really interesting city, and you know, when I first moved 202 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: into this area, I was just fascinated with the history 203 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: there and the architecture. And you know that there are 204 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: a few tourist spots there, like Battleship Cove. But I 205 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: do feel like so many people are drawn to the 206 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: story of Lizzie Borden because it's just so mysterious and 207 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: remains unsolved to this day. And you know, it attracts 208 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: not only history buffs but also paranormal folks and true 209 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: crime aficionados. So it just seems like such a great 210 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: opportunity for the city. You would think right that they 211 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: would welcome a second location, but they don't. Yeah, people 212 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: are constantly sending me links to the house. I know 213 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: it's on the market again now and they're always like, 214 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: if you should buy it, and man, it would be 215 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 1: very too late on that one. I don't know who 216 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: will say so now, having spent so much time in 217 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: both houses, what do you think is the difference in 218 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: the energy and both of the homes? Well, there's definitely 219 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: a lighter energy here at Maplecroft, although that third floor 220 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: can be a little dark at times. Isn't the third 221 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: floor where the caretaker lives or whoever living there lives. Well, 222 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: no one lives here now, I mean they wanted me 223 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: to live here, but I'm here as much as I can, 224 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: but I don't really want to move in. So the 225 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: house uh doesn't have anyone living on the third floor 226 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: at the moment. Uh. And so what do you not 227 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: want to move in because you don't want to move 228 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: from your location now or is it for other reasons? 229 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: I don't think I would be comfortable trying to sleep here. Well, 230 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: that's interesting because I've spent a lot of time in 231 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: Maplecroft and um, I've investigated a number of times, and 232 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, at first, it was almost like getting to 233 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: know a live person, Like it was almost like meeting 234 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: someone who's closed off and then trying to kind of 235 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: get them to open up to you, you know, trying 236 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: to think of different ways to get the house to 237 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: speak to you, and and it took a while, but 238 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: I do feel like now when I go back that 239 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: the house or potentially Elizabeth remembers me like, it feels 240 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: very different than when I first went there. Has that 241 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: been the same for you? Oh? Yeah, I have no 242 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: problem with her. It's not her that worries me. There's 243 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: actually a man on the third floor, and I don't 244 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: know who he is. But I've tried laying on a 245 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: bed up there by myself, and all of a sudden, 246 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: the whole bed staters she aging and I know that's 247 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: not her doing that. I've seen a full fledged shadow 248 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: figure on the third floor again not her. That's interesting 249 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: because when we investigated there, we didn't investigate the third 250 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: floor because that's where the person who was taking care 251 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: of the house at the time lived, and they said 252 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: there really wasn't anything going on up there. But as 253 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: we've learned so many times over the years investigating these spaces, 254 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: sometimes the investigations themselves actually attract different spirits. And not 255 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: to mention, the house has more of a history than 256 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: just Elizabeth or Lizzie. You know, someone built it before 257 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: she bought it, and then people lived there long after 258 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: she passed. M h. When you investigated, did you get 259 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: a man come through speaking for her? A lot? Never, 260 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: So that's really interesting. It was at first very quiet, uh, 261 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: and then as we investigated, she kind of started becoming 262 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: more comfortable with us, and and I've long theorized that 263 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: that's because we made kind of a pact after night 264 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,719 Speaker 1: one or two that we weren't going to bring up 265 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: the murders anymore and we were just going to talk 266 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: to her about, you know, post murder life, I guess, 267 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: and I think that was what really brought her out more. 268 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: And I don't think we've got any evidence of a man, 269 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: but it's also been a while, and I don't think 270 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: the third floor was opened up then, so maybe you've 271 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: found someone new. Yeah, I mean I've done the same 272 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: with her Amy. We do run ghost hunts here, but 273 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: we don't allow paranormal teams to rent out the house. 274 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: Any ghostman has to be through us. That way, I 275 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: can kind of control what people say, and that's what 276 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: we tell them. It's all about respect. We don't want 277 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: the other place mentioned. All your questions have to pertain 278 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: to her life here, and you know, we try and 279 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: keep it her sanctuary, same as you and Adam did. 280 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: Is there anything that happens in the house you feel 281 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: like maybe rouse her up a little bit. I think 282 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: when we have too many people in the house, you 283 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: can hear her a little bit stomping around upstairs. Occasionally 284 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: somebody might say something and you'll hear a door slam. 285 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: Other than that, she um, she's kind of quiet. We 286 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: get the knocking now and then, but I don't think 287 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: that's her right. And so when she starts doing that, 288 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: what do you do to calm her down? And I'll 289 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: just say, oh, I'm sorry, are you in this part 290 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: of the house, will leave you be, We'll go somewhere else. 291 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: So what would you say, And all the time you've 292 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: spent at Maplecrofts, what would you say is the strangest 293 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: experience that you've had there? Over the pandemic. We did 294 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: a show doc Zone and we were filming on the 295 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: third floor again and somebody was doing the SDS method 296 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 1: and she kept yelling my first and last name over 297 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: the spirit box and then I saw a full fledged 298 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: shadow figure stand right in the doorway of the room. 299 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: As soon as I pointed it out, you actually saw 300 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: the shadow run m. Probably the scariest thing was when 301 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: I was alone on the third floor, laying on the 302 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: bed in the whole bed started it just shake. Yeah, 303 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: that that would be disconcerting. I can see now why 304 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: you don't want to move in there. Yeah, you know 305 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: it scares me, but it fascinates me at the same time, 306 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: I just would rather come and go. What do you 307 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: what would you say is the strangest or scariest experience 308 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: you've heard of anyone else having in the home? I 309 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: don't know. Amy. Down in a basement we were doing 310 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: a ghost hunt and a woman got touched and it 311 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: really freaked her out. I mean literally, anybody else in 312 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: the room could have been touched and it wouldn't have 313 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: been that kind of reaction. But she was touched, and 314 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: I happen to have the spirit box going. I said, hey, 315 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: whoever just touched her, could you please not do that? 316 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: You scared her? And over the spirit box he just said, 317 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Well, she was so scared. She actually ended 318 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: up leaving the ghost on after she validated, you know, 319 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: somebody actually validating that they did touch her. If free 320 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: to her, that was enough for her. Yeah, so that 321 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: was a little bit unnerving. Now, we did some experimenting 322 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: when Adam and I investigated with Kindred Spirits, we did 323 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: some investigating and experimenting where we tried to kind of 324 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: see if the two locations were connected, and you know, 325 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: we weren't sure if maybe some energy or spirits travel 326 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: between the two houses. Do you think that that happens. 327 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: I don't ever sense any of the spirits from the 328 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: other house in this house, but I have sent her 329 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: at the other location, so I do think that she's 330 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: able to travel back and forth. That would make sense 331 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: because really the other spirits and theory passed before you know, 332 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: she would have moved into Maplecroft and so they wouldn't 333 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: even know that it existed in her world, and so 334 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: that actually makes sense. I hadn't thought of it that 335 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: way before. Do you think that there is any evidence 336 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: that Emma Porton might be in the home or might 337 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: come to the house. Well, I don't know if it's evident. 338 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: I have had a psychic in the house to tell 339 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: me that she was here. But then again, you've taken 340 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: a word of someone else. I didn't personally get her 341 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: name come through or anything like that. It just seems 342 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: so strange to me, Like I was just I was 343 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: just recently going through all the history again, and you know, 344 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: to think that those sisters were joined for so long 345 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: and then it just ended one day, and then still 346 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: they end up dying within two weeks of each other 347 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: with without even knowing each other was ill. And it 348 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: makes me wonder if maybe they've tried to mend defenses 349 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: in the afterlife or or you know, it's I just 350 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: I guess, and so many of my investigations I've seen 351 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: that happen where people have these kind of regrets as 352 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: far as how relationships went in their living years. And 353 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: I guess there's a part of me that kind of 354 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: hopes that Lizzie and Emma might you know, meet up 355 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: in the afterlife. So I was thinking Maplecroft might be 356 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: the perfect place for that, if it would ever happen, 357 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: And maybe they did. I just I haven't personally gotten 358 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: any evidence of that, but it's possible absolutely. Um, is 359 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: the house still on the market. It is? It is. 360 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: This house is Maplecroft, And so Maplecroft is still on 361 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: the market. It's been on the market for a while. 362 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: When it is sold, or if it is sold, what 363 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: do you hope to see the new owners do? I 364 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: think I would rather it became the private family home, 365 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: to be honest, So you you would like it to 366 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: just be kind of what it was originally intended, a 367 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: beautiful home for a family exactly, unless they were going 368 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: to do respectful tours like we had in mind. I 369 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: don't want it to be another place where you get 370 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: all these paranormal groups coming over. School man about the 371 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: other house, I think that would be awful. Yeah, you 372 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,719 Speaker 1: know it is. It is a beautiful home. Like you 373 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: walk in and there's this grand staircase to the left, 374 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: and then to the right there's this gorgeous parlor, and 375 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't state enough just what a stunning 376 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: stunning residents it is and and I think it would 377 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: be great for it to be just privately owned and 378 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: kind of tucked away. But you know, it's one of 379 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: those places I just think people will not stop being 380 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: curious about. You know, I've just seen this happen so 381 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: many times in places like the Amityville House and such, 382 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: where they almost become tourist attractions even though they're not open. 383 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: People stop and they take photos out front and things 384 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: like that, and I wonder if that's kind of, you know, 385 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: stopping people from buying the house. Yeah. I do know 386 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: one of the previous owners, he actually put a boat 387 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: across the word Maplecroft to try and you know, detur people. 388 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: The word Maplecroft is one of the things that Lizzie 389 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: put there. You know, there are just that there are 390 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: still a lot of little touches in there that Lizzie, 391 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: I should say, Elizabeth, Elizabeth put there herself, and you 392 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: know that's that's fascinating and you know it just feels 393 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: like her when you go there. Now. Question for you, 394 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: I know you're in Maplecroft right now, and so this 395 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: is kind of a touchy question to ask, but I 396 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: have to ask it. I didn't know you were really 397 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: be doing your interview while you were actually in the house. 398 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: So that being said, do you think Lizabeth or Lizzie 399 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: did it? Well, hopefully she's not listening, but I mean 400 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: I would have to say so. But I don't think 401 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: people say all the time for the money. I don't 402 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: think so. I think there was something else going on. 403 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: I always said, if she did it, there was a 404 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: good reason, a better reason for it. There's a sound 405 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: upstairs as I was saying that, Look great, Sorry, I 406 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: don't mean this is to herd up for you over there. No, 407 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: I mean I've actually told to this myself in anyway. Yeah, 408 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: and maybe you know, I know, there's a lot of 409 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: rumors as far as what could have gone on between 410 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, her family, A lot of money matters. There's 411 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: claims of abuse, you know, there's claims that you know, 412 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: she had some sort of relationship with the maid. I mean, 413 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: all of these things that we will never ever know 414 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: the truth on. And I'm sure you know, she probably 415 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: never expected for people to still be talking about it 416 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: so many years later. And I just I think it's 417 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: it's just so kind of magical to me that we 418 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: have this kind of direct line to her still through Maplecroft, 419 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: like I fully believe she is there. I do like 420 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: how curated you are about like you know what people say, 421 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: you know, you're careful about what they bring up, because 422 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: I think that's the only way that she will talk 423 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: to people. Uh. And I think it's also just an 424 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: important lesson and the fact that you know, just because 425 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: we pass away doesn't mean we stop being human, and 426 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: that there's a respect level it needs to happen there. 427 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: But when we filmed there and we were shooting and investigating, 428 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, we were there for multiple days and we've 429 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: been back a number of times, and one of our 430 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: producers just kept asking me to ask her if she 431 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: did it over and over again. He was like, you 432 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: just you need to ask her, You need to ask 433 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: her she did it. And I refused. I said I 434 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: won't because I've gained her trust. Like I've spent so 435 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: many days here talking to her and she's finally talking 436 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: to me, and I have to come back to this 437 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: house again and again, and I don't want to ruin 438 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: this right. I didn't want to say though that you know, 439 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: that's mainly the reason that only you and Adam were 440 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: allowed in this house because of your level of respect 441 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: to her. We knew we could count on that from you, guys. Well, 442 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: thank you. We Adam and I as investigators really strive too, 443 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: you know, kind of in part the same respect to 444 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: the dead as we do to the living. You know. 445 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: We we talked to them as though they're standing right 446 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: in front of us, living and breathing. So do I. Yeah, 447 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: and that's why I like you so much. I've actually, 448 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: for people listening, I've known Sue for many years at 449 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: this point, you know, we met through the Lizzie Borden 450 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: House and now through Maplecroft. She's actually featured on an 451 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: episode of Kindred Spirits too. Now you were on the 452 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: Maplecroft one too, right, yeah, briefly. Yeah, so she's a 453 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: regular at this point. Um. You know, so I dug 454 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: into the history a lot for the podcast. I mean 455 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: obviously I have in the past as well. And just 456 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: from what you've heard and what you've studied, what do 457 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: you think life was like for Elizabeth at Maplecroft. Well, 458 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: I think it was a combination of things. She had 459 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: a lot of good times here. Her servants were very 460 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: loyal to her, She had good friends, She loved to travel. 461 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: She finally got the high life on the hill. But 462 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: then she also was snubbed by neighbors. You know, they 463 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: made up that little nursery rhyme and they would actually 464 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: sing it outside of this house, throw eggs at the 465 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: side of the house. So they were her bad days 466 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: in here. But I think for the most part she 467 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: loved this place. Oh. The other thing is she had 468 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: a lot of animals in the home, right, She had 469 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: her dogs, she had canaries, she sent squirrels outside. Have 470 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: you guys ever found any evidence of any spirit animals 471 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: in the home, because I've been hearing about that a 472 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: lot lately. Actually, yes, we've gotten dogs. I've heard a 473 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: cat in the house before. And um, you remember Bundy, Cindy, Yeah, she, 474 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 1: Um actually had this weird feeling that there was a 475 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: monkey still in this house. Now, Elizabeth did not own 476 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: a monkey, but a previous family actually kept a monkey 477 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: in here. Oh, and it's funny because Cindy said that 478 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: to me one day and then not that long ago, 479 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: like two weeks ago. Um, I had a psychic medium 480 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: knock at the side door, and I left the woman 481 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: and I was speaking to her, and um, she turned 482 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: to Cindy and said, did you see like a short 483 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: shadow figure up a staircase since And he's like yeah, 484 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: She's like, that was a monkey. Sydney and I just 485 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: looked at her. Other said what a monkey? I had 486 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: no idea. There's a new one for me. Yes, the 487 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: Sylvia family kept a monkey at Maplecroft. Oh my goodness. 488 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Maplecroft has a very interesting history in addition to Elizabeth 489 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: living there. Oh yes, now with everything you know, like, 490 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: I have heard that she stayed in Paul River because 491 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: she wanted people to look her in the eye again 492 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: once she was vindicated. Do you think that's actually why 493 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: she stayed there? Well, you know, I always wondered that amy. 494 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: You know, here she is, she's inherited millions of dollars. Essentially, 495 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: she could have lived anywhere in the world anonymously, had 496 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: this great life. Why stay on the hill? Will you 497 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: being ostracized? And as I studied her life here, I 498 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: discovered a friend Dad asked her that same question, and 499 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: you're correct. Her response to her friend was because I 500 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: want to be among these same people when I'm found 501 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: to be innocent. And I did hear. She later regretted 502 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: that before she died. Why do you think she regretted it? Well, 503 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: because the innocent thing never really happened for her, and 504 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, she wasted all that time trying to prove 505 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: her innocence. Really yeah, I mean it's strange because she 506 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: didn't really do anything to, you know, try to prove 507 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: her innocence after that, She just kind of assumed it 508 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: would have happened eventually, and she just lived her life. 509 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: And like you said, she she literally could have gone anywhere. 510 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: She had enough money to move, even out of the 511 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: country if she wanted to, but instead she stayed where 512 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: everyone thought she had acts murdered her parents, which is 513 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: such a crazy concept to me. And what's crazy about 514 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: it is okay, uh, you know, there were other people 515 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: on the scene over the course of time. Usually somebody talks, 516 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: something is said. Never not in this case, never, no, No. 517 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: I do remember I heard that there was some sort 518 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: of deathbed confession from Bridget that made at some point, 519 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: but that's not confirmed. Do you know anything about that. 520 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: Supposedly she thought she was dying and sent for her friend. 521 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: It took this friend a little bit to reach her, 522 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: and by the time the friend did, she had recovered 523 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: and didn't say anything. That whole story started from a Butte, 524 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: Montana librarian as it was told to her, So nobody 525 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: really knows if that even occurred at all. Right, so 526 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: you had another game of historical telephone. Really, well, is 527 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: there anything else you think people need to know about 528 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: Maple Croft? Because I feel like right now, you know 529 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: there there is some access to it. But I just 530 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: have a hunch that at some point Maple Croft is 531 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: going to be closed back up to the public like 532 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: it has been for so many years. Um, you know, 533 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: is there anything you want the world to know about 534 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: that house? I mean, it was very special for her 535 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: in her lifetime, and I just hope whoever's hands it 536 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: falls into treats it with the same respect no matter 537 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: what they do with it. And you know, there are 538 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: some opportunities to still see the house if you go 539 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: to the other house's website. We do try and conduct 540 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: them things here at the house periodically. It may be 541 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: the only opportunity. Guys. That's good to know. So folks listening, 542 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: If you do head to New England, obviously you you'll 543 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: probably want to pay a visit to the Lizzie Borden House, 544 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: but inquire about Maplecroft. See if it's a place you 545 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: can still get into, because my hunch is that it 546 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: won't be available to us much longer. And I feel 547 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: like if Lizzie was haunting either house, it's definitely Maplecroft. 548 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: So having been there, it's a very special place. And Sue, 549 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my 550 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: questions about this. Um. You your lovely as always. I 551 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: can't wait to see you in person again. Yeah, I mean, 552 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: it's my pleasure anytime I can talk about this house. 553 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: I love it. Okay, Well, stay safe over there and 554 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,479 Speaker 1: watch out for that third floor. Will call me if 555 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: you need me already. Thank you so much. Do I 556 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: appreciate it? Alright, have a great day. Thanks you too. 557 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: The more I investigate and read about Elizabeth, the more 558 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: inclined I am to say that I'm just not sure 559 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: whether she killed her parents. I think it's incredible that 560 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: we potentially have a direct line to her through her 561 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: spirit at Maplecroft, and I do so hope that whoever 562 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: takes ownership of the home next respects that. In the meantime, 563 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: did you know that all the legal papers from her 564 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: trial sit in a five drawer filing cabinet at the 565 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: law firm that represented her. It's been locked since the 566 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: crime and remains that way to this day, since the 567 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: law firm is still very much in existence and practicing. 568 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: An attorney client privilege does not end when someone dies. 569 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: I often think of that filing cabinet tucked away in 570 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: that office and all the secrets that it holds, all 571 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: the secrets we will most likely now of her. No, 572 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: since the recording of this episode, we have lost someone 573 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: very integral to the story I just told and that 574 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: you just heard. My dear friend, Leanne Wilbur, who was 575 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: co owner of the Lizzie Boarden House and of Maple Croft, 576 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: left us on June five, quite unexpectedly. I'm pretty heartbroken 577 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: over it. I've known Leanne for a number of years, 578 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: and she always welcomed me to Maplecroft and the Lizzie 579 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: Boardenhouse with open arms. She was a lovely human being, 580 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: and I just I'm still a little shell shocked by it. 581 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: So this episode is dedicated to her memory and to 582 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: all the wonderful times we shared. So thank you for listening. 583 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: Haunted Road is a production of I Heart Radio and 584 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. The podcast is written 585 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky, 586 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by 587 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor Haggerdorn is the 588 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: show's researcher. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit 589 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 590 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.