WEBVTT - Ghost Hunting Technology 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:17.920 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everybody, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.480 Welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.160 I'm the tech editor here at how stuff works dot com. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.080 Sitting across from me, as he always does, is senior 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.400 writer Jonathan Strickland's Hey there, and uh, I don't know 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:32.000 that we have a ghost of a chance of getting 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.280 through this without you losing it, but we should try. 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:39.760 I ain't afraid of no ghost. Uh So you may 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:41.880 have already guessed what our topic is, but it comes 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:48.040 to us courtesy of a little listener mail. List listener 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.320 mail comes from Will from Austin, Texas, and he says, Hi, guys, 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.200 I just recently started subscribing to the podcast and always 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.400 have it playing in my car to and from work. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:58.680 I am in the I T field and even though 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.040 I feel like I have a some firm grasp on 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.640 some of the concepts that are discussed, it is always 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.560 nice to have something explained in a visual manner. There's 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.800 which is odd for an audio podcast. Right now, you 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.600 know that maybe he senses that there's something I am 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.160 curious about which seems to be all the craze right now, 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.920 and that is all the different ghost hunting shows on 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.840 TV right now. I'm a sucker for them myself and 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.480 end up watching them somewhat intrigued with the technology that 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.280 they use, the things they catch within the infrared spectrum, 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.679 the e m F meters and e m F pumps 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.160 that they used to attract entities, and the digital recorders 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.520 used to capture what is called e v P electronic 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.440 voice phenomenon. From what I understand, there's nothing hard and 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.280 fast that says e m F detectors are legitimate for 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.280 detecting levels of magnetic activity. So it would be really 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.560 nice to hear y'all talk a bit about the technology 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.560 used in TV shows like Ghost Hunters, Ghost Labs, Ghost Adventures, 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:56.400 Paranormal State. Thanks will Well, I think we're going to 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:01.320 have a spirited discussion. Yes, yes, I'm going to rattle 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.320 my chains. You know what. I will say that that 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.800 my wife is a fan of a lot of these shows, um, 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.600 and I have only watched bits and pieces of them, 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.320 so I am less familiar with them. But um, one 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.680 of the things that I found out when I started 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.080 getting into this is that, uh, they're not using a 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.600 whole lot of high tech gadgetry in order to investigate 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.000 the paranormal and stuff off the shelf. What little they're using, 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.440 they're using incorrectly. Okay, I'm going to preface this by 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:35.200 saying I'm going to preface this by saying I am 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.960 a skeptic. And when I say skeptic, I don't mean 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:43.200 someone who automatically denies whether or not something exists. When 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.440 I'm saying skeptic, I'm talking about a person who requires 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.400 there to be some sort of empirical evidence that something 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.320 exists before I just go ahead and accept it. And 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.880 as far as ghost hunting goes, there is such an 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.800 enormous lack of empirical evidence that any of this is 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:03.200 doing anything that I find the whole industry that has 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.680 sprung up around ghost hunting to be infuriating. And I 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.200 really do mean that, because, Okay, folks, if you want 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:15.240 to type in e m F detector into any search engine, 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.200 I guarantee you that at least one, if not several, 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.240 of the main results that pop up first are going 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.760 to be about ghost hunting equipment. And here's the thing. 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.720 They don't detect ghosts. I mean, there's no proof that 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.640 they detect ghosts. There's no proof that ghosts even affect 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.360 electromagnetic fields, which is what E m F detectors and 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.440 meters are designed to detect. There's no proof that a 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.120 ghost exists number one, and then there's no proof that, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:46.520 if they do exist, that they affect these fields. So 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.480 why would using this tool be an indication that there 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:54.040 is a ghost present? Well, that's uh, that's sort of 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:58.440 the whole thing is that I mean, is that people 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:03.400 are using these people are using these devices um in 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.800 hopes of finding something right, and in many cases it's 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:12.080 either in disproving the existence of a an entity in 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.360 the room or proving it. I mean, it's not it's not, Hey, 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:16.960 let's stick a tape recorder in the room for an 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.280 hour and see what it drives me nuts? Because why 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.719 would this device, over any other be a good indicator 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.320 that there is a presence in the room. That's what 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.680 That is the point where I'm already having My first 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.960 problem with the whole ghost hunting thing is that it's 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:38.080 like you arbitrarily assigned ghosts this ability to do something 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.920 based upon I don't know what and that somehow watching 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.960 a little needle move indicates that there must be something here. 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.839 You could just as easily say, hey, let's take this 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.279 metal detector and we'll run it over the ground and 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.800 every time it beats, that's where a ghost is. Yeah, 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.040 Because I mean, there's you just you're making up the 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.919 rules as you go along. You can't do that. What 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.680 you have to do first established that there is such 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.120 a thing as a ghost, and then determine whether or 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.080 not a ghost is able to affect an electromagnetic field, 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.040 because then you could say, okay, this tool will detect 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.360 this thing. That's the way science works, people. You don't 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.360 sit there and assume something is true and then try 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.000 and find a way to justify it. Here's how it works. 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.200 You observe some sort of phenomena, You try and create 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.080 an explanation for that phenomena. You then test your explanation. 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.640 If your explanation holds after multiple tests done by multiple 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.640 people under multiple situations, and it still holds true, then 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.279 you can say you know something. You can't just say, hey, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.200 this needle move, therefore there's a dead person in the room. What. No, 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.160 that's not how it works. I joked that we could 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.400 call this podcast how critical thinking works. Honestly, people, critical 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.880 thinking is so important. If you don't use critical thinking, 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.800 if you just swallow that the needle moved, therefore some 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.680 thing is in this room, then I don't know what 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.360 to tell you. Okay, well, let's uh, let me breathe, 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.640 let's back away from that from that edge. We're gonna 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:10.960 have to stay with this edge because we have to 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.080 talk about what E M F detectors actually do. Well, 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.480 that's the thing. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Let's 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.160 opinion aside, Let's talk about this stuff that actually works. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:24.680 What opinion? Sorry, I'm just well, that's but that's the thing. Though, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.760 there are other people who claim that they have heard 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.120 and seen things using this equipment countless I'm saying, and 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.440 I don't know, I have I have no doubt there. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.400 I have no doubts that there are people out there 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:43.120 who truly believe that they have experienced something that is inexplicable, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.280 just as I have absolutely no doubt that the things 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.920 they experienced were completely explicable because they did not have 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:55.280 the necessary facts or ways of determining those facts at 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.000 their disposal at the time. And also these events tend 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:04.880 to come more um outlandish or or perhaps we should 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.520 say more extravagant. Over time, as we think back and 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.880 we tell stories over we tend to elaborate and and 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.800 I'm not even saying people are are fibbing or anything 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.720 like that. They could completely believe in what they're saying. 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.880 There are stories I've told where I've gone back and 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.280 looked at something, you know, like like a video of 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.760 a performance I was in and realized that the story 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.760 I tell is not matching up to reality. But in 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.240 my mind, that's exactly the way it happened. We all 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.400 do this, It's just in this case, I think what 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.680 it's done is spawned an entire industry. Well, you know, 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.200 you're right that there there is no empirical evidence. There's 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.800 nothing in scientific journals that indicates that any of these 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.440 pieces of gear that we're going to talk about has 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:54.520 any ability to really find a ghost. There's nothing in 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.920 any scientific journals about it that I was able to 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.520 find in my research. Well, but the first step, of 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.840 of course, is the fact that there's no scientific evidence 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.119 for a ghost, so you can't device could find something 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.760 that would be the point. But I looked. I'm glad 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:10.720 you did. But and you know what I found out. 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.760 What's that some one of the culprits behind the idea 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.560 of using electronics to try to find spirits or you know, 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:24.920 some kind of paranormal activity, Thomas Edison. He actually said that, Um, 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:26.480 and I didn't get the quote. I should have gotten 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.000 the quote. But basically he said that he believed that 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.120 there was a way to create an electronic instrument that 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.080 if a ghost existed, would be that the instrument would 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.960 be capable of detecting it, some sort of ghost detector. Now, 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:41.920 he he never built anything like that, and he never 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.280 That doesn't necessarily mean that he believed in ghosts, because 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.440 actually he said he didn't know whether or not they existed, 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.440 that if they did exist, there should be a way 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.520 to detect them, is what he was saying. And of 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.320 course I actually saw quotes from him in a couple 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.200 of places. Um, but it's kind of funny to imagine that, 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.120 you know, I'm sure that that some people said, Okay, well, 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.199 let's try to build something that will detect a ghost. 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.720 And if you believe that a ghost, if it exists, 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:14.160 is creating some kind of field, um magnetic or electrical 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.960 or you know, giving off some kind of signature in 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:19.920 another plane that you cannot see. Then you might try 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.960 to use things like infrared cameras or e m F 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:28.600 detectors or i on density detectors to try to find 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.199 something that would indicate why you feel cold when you 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.560 walk in this room. Just that, just it seems so 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.800 strange to me, because you could just as easily say, 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.640 you know, I believe ghosts exist, but the only people 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:42.079 who can detect them are female, left handed redheads. I mean, 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:46.040 that's just as valid a point as saying ghosts must exist, 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.800 therefore they give off some sort of electromagnetic field. Well, 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:50.760 this is one of those things that that surprised me 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.120 when I started doing the research was that, um, the 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.640 people who have been doing this for a while basically 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:59.520 take a plain old tape recorder and a camera and 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.920 a note and they go in and they sit down 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.080 and they try to find, you know, see if they 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.880 see anything unusual. They take pictures, um and trying to 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.280 make notes of anything they don't get. They don't buy 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.160 a lot of fancy and there are plenty of them 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.080 who who do this in the hopes of finding some 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.760 sort of proof of of that. There are such things 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:24.199 as ghosts, but who are also very intellectually honest, and 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:29.000 they they objectively look at each and every indicator and 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.360 determine whether or not there is a physical explanation for 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.640 it or not. And in those cases, I think you'll 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.839 find that most of those ghost tunters have so far 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.760 come up zero percent on the ghost and a percent 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:46.280 on some sort of physical explanation. Yeah, but that's not Again, 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:48.960 let me make this clear. That's not to say that 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.400 ghosts do not exist. I can't say that. There's no 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.640 way that I could say that ghosts do not exist 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.800 and be honest with myself about it. I don't know. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.400 What I can say is that there's no empirical proof 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.080 that they exist, and until there is, I just don't 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.360 believe in them. So, but let's talk about Let's talk 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:11.000 about the what electro magnetic field meters do. What you're 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:15.840 designed to do. These are devices that, as you would imagine, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:22.000 detect fluctuations in electromagnetic fields, and various things can create fluctuations. 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.000 Usually it's some sort of electronic device. Because, as you've 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:29.200 probably heard us talk about before, electricity and magnetic fields 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.880 are closely related. You can induce one using the other 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.760 So these detectors, what they're designed to do is to 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:41.400 detect fluctuations in the field, mainly for electrical purposes. And 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.400 so you might detect a fluctuation around electronics where you 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.480 might have something that's not properly grounded. It's really an 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.080 indicator to tell you, Okay, wait, the wiring in my 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.240 house isn't as good as I thought it was and 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.960 I need to have this looked at. Or the shielding 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.480 on this this power cable is clearly not as strong 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.839 as it needs to be, and that's why I'm getting 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:09.360 interference with my other electronics. That's what's meant for. Um, 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:13.600 It's ok. And what what drives me nuts as seeing 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.480 companies that are selling e m F meters which do 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:22.520 have a legitimate, useful application, and they're saying it's a 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:26.439 great e m F meter slash ghost detector. That drives 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.080 me crazy because again there's no proof that it's actually 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:34.680 detectually detecting anything other than electromagnetic fluctuations that could be 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.600 explained by wiring or magnets or whatever. And in fact, 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.240 I saw one site and I'm not going to name 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.240 the site, but I saw one site that had a 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.840 frequently asked question section and said what reading am I 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.240 looking for on this gadget? And said a reading of 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.840 two to seven milligos may be due to spirit activity. 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.520 How do you determine that? How did you just say that? Oh, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.080 if you get a measure of two to seven, that 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.840 means there's a there's probably a ghost there. This it's 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.800 made up out of whole cloth because there's no basis 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:10.959 effect behind it. But at any rate, E m F 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:18.040 meters are legitimate tools for electricians, not necessarily for ghost hunters. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.960 And maybe ghosts do affect e m F fields somehow, 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:24.760 or I shouldn't say e m F fields because now 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.800 I'm repeating part of the acronym. But maybe they do 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.840 have some sort of effect on electromagnetic fields. But without 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.680 any evidence to back that up, we can't say for sure. 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.040 And it turns out that in most cases, in fact, 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.880 I would have would probably argue all cases, whenever you 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.480 use a meter and the little needle is starting to 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.520 go around and find a hot spot, there's probably just 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:53.240 a wiring issue that would explain it. Um. Yeah, Another 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:57.000 another item that I saw that it's more higher tech, 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.800 I guess um would be the ion density counter. Yes, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.920 and that could be used for a lot of things. Um. 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:06.520 What it does is it tries to detect the number 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.040 of ions in a cubic centimeter of air, and it 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.720 can be used to detect things like rate on um, 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:17.160 whether there are combustible vapors in the area, electric electrical arcs. Right, 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:23.520 very legitimate uses, UM and this really uh plays into 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.480 the whether you know, into the skeptics view of whether 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.080 or not this gadget would be useful in detecting any 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.240 paranormal activity. You would have to assume first that whatever 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.400 the paranormal activity is gives off ions. Well, that's number one. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.040 I thought that was assumed at this point. I'm I'm 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.080 spelling it out, okay, because there's here's here's why I 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:43.680 spell that out. I think there are a lot of 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.160 people who use these devices who have no idea what 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.560 the device is truly meant for, or at least was 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.560 originally meant for. That's a good point, and they don't 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.480 understand what it really means when they get a reading 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.560 off these devices. So I know it sounds like I'm 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.320 going super basic on this, but it's really to drive 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.240 home the point of there are legitimate uses for these devices. 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.200 That had nothing to do with ghost hunting, and if 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.920 you keep that in mind before we move on to 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.720 the whole ghost hunting thing, it helps explain away a 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.160 lot of the quote unquote anomalies that you might find. 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.080 I'm sorry, I interrupted you, Please go on. Well, the 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.280 thing about an ion detector or eye in density detector 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.360 is the air has to be very, very still around it, 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:30.720 so it's a particularly sensitive device and lots of things 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.960 can affect the reading on it. So like a draft, Yeah, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.160 a draft will affect the reading. And you know if 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.000 a draft comes in, um, you know, you might say, 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.560 oh wait, the needles moving. Yeah. It turns out that 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.880 a lot of ghost behavior can be explained by poor 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.320 celent around the window. It sounds like a joke, but 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.520 it's really true. No, no, no, it's but it's it's 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.880 funny because you know, just apparently just the slightest thing 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.320 will um, you know, it really needs to sit still 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.280 and be left alone for a while if were it 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.360 to be to give off an accurate reading of whether 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:03.920 or not there are a lot of ions in the area, 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.200 and of course the whole if there were ghosts, would 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.320 they give off ions. So there you are, you're talking 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.600 about devices that are very sensitive and can easily give 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.440 off false positives. That's another problem, and that it's very 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:20.200 easy to interpret a false positive as evidence of some 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.520 sort of supernatural activity, when in fact, it may just 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.560 be that there was a breeze that blew by and 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.440 that's what affected the reading. Um. Knowing how to use 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:33.760 this equipment properly eliminates a lot of the doubt around 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:38.480 the equipment, all right, So what else? Um? Well, you know, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.400 then some people actually have been using Geiger counters, apparently, 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:46.920 because which is designed to detect radiation exactly. Again, there's 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:48.760 no I don't think a lot of them do. And 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:50.600 I haven't heard heard, but I saw that in a 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.640 list of equipment that you might here with you. I mean, 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.800 if if a ghost is to affect electromagnetic fields, why 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.880 wouldn't a ghost be radioactive? I mean, why wouldn't ghosts 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.520 be able to create jello out of thin air? I mean, 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.800 we we could just go ahead and keep on attributing 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.800 stuff that goests all day long. And you know, again, 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.560 my metal detector example earlier on is completely valid. I mean, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.800 if you're gonna just grab whatever tools and use them 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.679 to this purpose, why not a metal detector. I mean, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.600 we've we've seen motion sensors being used as ghost hunting 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:27.399 material as well. Um, lots of stuff can trip motion sensors, 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:32.159 and I wonder if a ghost would trip a motion sensor. 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.160 I mean, I don't understand how the I don't understand 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.560 the set of rules that ghosts apparently obey. That's part 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.040 of the problem is that if they trip motion sensors 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.280 but not other things, I mean, how does that work? 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:50.840 I find it a kind of confusing night vision goggles. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.800 That's that's actually a question I have, And maybe maybe 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.280 somebody can answer that for me. And you know, I 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:00.720 don't want to sound like I'm making fun of any 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.359 of these shows, but if the ghosts can be seen 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:05.720 in the lighter, the I mean, why are all these 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.120 shows shot in the dark. Let me explain that, because 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:10.719 I really don't know. I have a I have a 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.200 good reason for the whole dark ghost thing. That has 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.200 everything to do with psychology, all right, And actually there's 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.600 some physiology here as well. So at night you're in 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.760 you're you're at your house at night, you settled down 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:27.600 to go to sleep, and you hear a strange noise 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.760 at night your house tends to be more quiet than 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.440 during the daytime. People have settled down, right, everyone's in bed, 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.239 so noises that would normally be covered up by just 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.000 the activity in your house during the daytime are no 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.840 longer covered up. Your your mind is still alert, so 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.200 you're laying in bed and you're thinking, is there someone 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.800 moving around the house. I just heard a creaking noise. 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:52.880 They could just as easily be the sound of your 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.159 house settling. Uh, it could be the sound of a 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.560 board warping slowly, just boards do warp over time. Sometimes 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.000 they make no ways. Sometimes it's like a low moaning noise, 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.000 which might sound familiar to people who are familiar with 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.800 the whole ghost mythology thing. Um, so that's part of it. 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.080 Is just that that's the physiological part of it, But 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:16.360 psychologically it's that, you know, uh, night time, that's when 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.720 we're not concentrating on anything else. Our mind can completely 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:24.160 focus on these events. And humans like to create patterns 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.440 out of things. They like explanations for things. And if 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.560 we can't easily explain it by something that we're really 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.040 familiar with, it's very easy to jump on the unfamiliar 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.440 supernatural train and say, oh, well, this must have been 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:44.080 caused by this paranormal activity. So you'll see similar things. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:45.760 Like if you look into the clouds and you see 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:50.600 a human face, it's because humans like patterns. We find 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.600 patterns and stuff all over the place. That's actually called 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:57.240 a paradolia is what's referred to us. So paradolia is 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.240 where we start seeing patterns and things. We usually actually 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.679 paradolia specifically about faces, being able to recognize faces and 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.640 things like the water. You know, you might look into 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.720 some muddy water and say, oh my gosh, I just 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.040 saw a face looking back at me. That wasn't a reflection, 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.840 it was actually a face. Welts. Because we see these things, 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.600 our mind creates a pattern and we convince ourselves that 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.520 we've seen something that wasn't necessarily there. Uh. The same 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.440 sort of thing happens when we hear noises. We start 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.399 to our brains start to to fill in gaps, and 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:31.240 as a result, we add information there that wasn't necessarily 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.880 there originally. Uh. I would argue that this is also 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.280 the case when you're talking about the whole electronic voice 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:41.879 phenomenon stuff where you've taken a recorder and you you 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.280 listen to the sounds that have been left on that 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.920 recorder and you start to try and pick stuff out. 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:49.640 You'll find a lot of sound files out there where 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:51.959 people will claim, oh, if you listen carefully, you'll hear 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.080 a woman crying in the background, where you'll hear someone 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.280 saying something that you just can't quite make it out, 0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:59.119 or maybe you can even sort of make out a 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.639 few words. I would argue on a lot of those, 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.640 it's just random noises that our brain kind of pieces 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.320 together and tries to make sense out of, because we 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:12.720 don't really like random well, um, you know, they say, 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.399 or at least the information I got when I was 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.280 doing some research on it indicated that, uh, people who 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:23.840 are engaged in ghost hunting activities will tell you that 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.560 they don't hear these sounds when they're actually in the room, 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.560 but when they go back and listen to the tapes, 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.920 something has made that noise appear on the track. Of course, 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.240 the a lot of people who disbelieve that say that, 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:40.560 you know, this is what's called I t C. Instrumental transcommunication, 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:43.920 which is um or no, that's what the proponents say 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.320 that that's what it's called. They're trying to talk to 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.359 you via the recording UM, And the people who are 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:53.719 against it say, no, that's electrical interference. Something is, you know, 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:57.960 making these noises pop up UM on your uh you know, 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.280 on the tape recorder on your digital work order that 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.120 you used to to do this and it's a flaw um. 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.000 But you know they people stared at computer screens trying 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:10.320 to analyze the wave form, looking for the patterns. Again again, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.080 it's just I think it's just our desire to be 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.480 able to organize the universe in a way that makes 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.959 sense to us. And I mean, that's that's what science 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.680 is all based on. It's trying to understand the universe. 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.080 It's just that science takes a very specific procedure to 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.880