1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: we're back with part two of our talk about beans. 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking this one's gonna be even even 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: it's like a two bean salad if the last episode 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: was a one bean salad. We've got a lot of 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: great stuff to get to today. Well, this is one 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: I think that especially will well. I don't know if 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: it'll make everyone think about beans in a new way, 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: but in might in my chest because I feel like, 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: especially in that first episode, we were kind of approaching 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: or I was certainly approaching it. Like, you know, beans 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: are are very interesting, but they're also kind of mundane, 15 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: and they're in this the mundane nature of beings seems 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: to run deep. You have beaned doubt well to a 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: certain extent. But uh, in the space between recording the 18 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: last episode and uh, in recording this one, I found 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: a number of new angles and then um and then 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: leap frogdof rokoff a couple of angles you explored, and 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: I think it really paints a picture of beans as 22 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: a far weirder um part of our world and are 23 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: part of our culture and myth making, even if a 24 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: lot of that weirdness has largely been sort of bled 25 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: out um of sort of the like popular modern understanding 26 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: of the food. Yeah, I think that's right. So if 27 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: you out there still have being doubts, allow us to 28 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: try to evaporate them with some with some deft parching 29 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: through today's episode. So I wanted to start off today 30 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: by talking about philosophers and beans and a particular bean 31 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: field slaughter from Greek history slash legend. So there are 32 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 1: actually a surprising number of stories about Greek philosophers and beings. 33 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: There was one that I came across, and in the 34 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: last episode I mentioned this book that I had been 35 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: quoting by ken Alba called Beans, a History from Bloomsberry Publishing, 36 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: and I'm going to refer back to that book a 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: lot in this episode two. But there was one thing 38 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: I came across, and that that was talking about the 39 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: cynic philosopher Diogenes, who the one fact you may remember 40 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: about him, if if nothing else, is that he famously 41 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: lived in a jar or in Athens instead of in 42 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: a house like on a shelf no, not on a shelf. 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: I think it was like out in the out in 44 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: a public square or something. It's like a turned over jar. Uh. 45 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: And and this is consistent with the idea of the 46 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: Cynic school of philosophy, which is not about cynicism and 47 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: the modern English use of the word which means the 48 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: sort of I don't know, a pessimistic suspicion of others. Uh. 49 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: The Cynic school of philosophy meant rejecting unnatural social norms 50 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: and conventions and sort of being true to yourself, for 51 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: true to your nature. So Diogenes was famous for violating 52 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: taboos and rejecting the conventional norms of Greek culture in 53 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: his day. So I think he was known for being dirty, 54 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: of course, living in a big ceramic jar, for hanging 55 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: out with dogs. I think, for being nude, and doing 56 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: inappropriate things in public, like if I remember correctly, there's 57 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: a story that he uh decided to defecate while in 58 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: the middle of watching a play. But apparently another way 59 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: that he showed contempt for society's norms and and the 60 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: normal sort of like a food valorization scale, is that 61 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: he made a point of eating a type of being 62 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: known as lupins. Uh, this is a being that was 63 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: considered in many cases only fit for feeding to animals 64 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: or for the extremely poor and starving. Now, of course 65 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: this is not true. Lupins are a perfectly good food 66 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: if prepared in the right way, and they're part of many, 67 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: you know, food traditions around the world. But that, like 68 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: we talked about in the last episode, there are often 69 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: negative cultural and especially class associations with certain types of beans, 70 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: and you can't say lupins are are a very They're 71 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: difficult being there. There are being you really got to 72 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: get to know because they've got these toxic alkaloids in 73 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: them that you have to get out of them by 74 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: soaking the beans for a long time time, and supposedly 75 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: you got to do all this other stuff to make 76 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: them appetizing. But so I think by eating them, Diogenes 77 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: was sort of doing the equivalent of saying, like, you know, 78 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: look at me, I'll eat dog food. I don't give 79 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: a crap. But the the Greek philosopher being connection I 80 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: really want to talk about is between beans and Pythagoras. So, 81 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: the ancient Greek philosopher and religious leader Pythagoras lived from 82 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: about five seventy to four nine d b c E. 83 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,119 Speaker 1: And though he was extremely influential, it is actually hard 84 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: to know all that much with certainty about the life 85 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: of Pythagoras because none of his writing survives, so we 86 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: have nothing from his own hand, and the earliest accounts 87 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: of his life and teachings come from hundreds of years 88 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: after he lived, and they often differ substantially from one another. 89 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: So when exploring basically any factual claim about Pythagoras and 90 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: his teachings, there's going to be disagreement within our sources 91 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: and in the analysis of modern scholars. So unfortunately there's 92 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: not a lot you can say about him with certainty. 93 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: But with that in mind, there's a lot of stuff 94 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: you can say about him that can be understood as 95 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: according to some sources. Right, we have echoes of Pythagoras 96 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: UH as opposed to just Pythagoras like itself in a 97 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: pure recorded form, right. But in these echoes from Pythagoras 98 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: some really interesting facts emerge. So a bit of basic background. 99 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,679 Speaker 1: Pythagoras was born on the Greek island of Samos, again 100 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: sometime around the year five seventy BC. UH. He was 101 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: said to have traveled extensively around the ancient world in 102 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: his youth, and he eventually founded a sort of religious 103 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: commune in Croton, a place in the south of Italy. 104 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: Pythagoras taught some kind of mystical beliefs that unified aspects 105 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: of metaphysics about the soul and the universe with mathematics 106 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: and numbers, which seem to occupy some kind of sacred 107 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: position in his worldview, as well as music which tied 108 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: in with the mathematical aspects, and also teachings about nutrition 109 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: and politics, so like in the realm of politics, it 110 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: seems that the Pythagoreans disdained tyranny, and they really disdained democracy. 111 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: They favored a kind of oligarchy where the body politic 112 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: would be ruled by supposedly the best of men, you know, 113 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: rulers appointed for their virtues. That always works out. Yeah. 114 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: And in terms of nutrition, again there's some disagreement, but 115 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: the Pythagoreans were widely understood to be vegetarians, eating bread, 116 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: honey and vegetables. More on that in a bit now. 117 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: As with his life and his teachings, there are a 118 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: bunch of conflicting accounts of the death of Pythagoras, but 119 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to start with one of these stories about 120 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: his murder at the hands of a mob, and oh god, 121 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: it again. It's hard to keep all these straight. But 122 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: I think in this account, or at least in some 123 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: of these accounts, he's attacked by a mob that favors democracy. 124 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: So the people have spoken and and it is time 125 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: for Pythagoras to be slaughtered. So this account comes from 126 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: the writing of Diogenes Laertis, who is probably writing sometime 127 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: around the third century CES. So understand that it's like 128 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: hundreds of your like seven hundred or eight hundred years 129 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: after Pythagoras lived as a long time later. Oh and 130 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: this is translated by a CD younge. Diogenes writes the 131 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: following Pythagoras died in this manner when he was sitting 132 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: with some of his companions in Milo's house. Some one 133 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: of those whom he did not think worthy of admission 134 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: into it, was excited by envy to set fire to it. 135 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: But some say that the people of Crotona themselves did this, 136 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: being afraid lest he might aspire to tyranny, and that 137 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: Pythagoras was caught as he was trying to escape and 138 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: coming to a place full of beans, he stopped there, 139 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: saying that it was better to be caught than to 140 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: trample on the beans, and better to be slain than 141 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: to speak. And so he was murdered by those who 142 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: were pursuing him. And in this way also most of 143 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: his companions were slain, being in number about forty, but 144 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: that a very few did escape. So what I when 145 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: I first read this, I was like the pigeon and 146 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: moonraker that does a double take? I did that? What? What? So? 147 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: According to this story, Pythagoras and his followers were running 148 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: away from a violent mob, and they came to a 149 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: bean field, and they decided it was better to stop 150 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: running and get chopped to pieces by the crowd than 151 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: to step on the beans. This is the first time 152 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: I'll mention this, but I probably mentioned it again. So 153 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: in the previous episode I made a statement about how 154 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: how you know beans are less interesting compared to corn, 155 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: that corn is spookier, that it's children of the corn, 156 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: not children of the bean. That uh and and uh 157 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: and likewise, you know you would you would maybe be 158 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: afraid of he who looks behind the rows in the 159 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: corn field, but not in the bean field, Like there's 160 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: something about a corn field that can be kind of creepy, 161 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: especially in Stephen King's stories. But when when we look 162 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: back through uh in this account, but also in other 163 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: accounts that will look at later on, we really get 164 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: the feeling that that the I mean, certainly there were 165 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: no corn fields in Italy at this at this time, 166 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: like beans, bean fields were that place. So if you 167 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: can imagine a Stephen King's story where Setlar, a fringe 168 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: religious leader on the run, refuses to go into the corn, 169 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: would rather face death by mob, but then go into 170 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: the corn, like that makes sense in a Stephen King's story. 171 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: So just sort of imagine that it's beans instead of 172 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: corn in the Stephen King universe. And I feel like 173 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: we get an appropriate idea of how Pythagoras and his 174 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: followers are are believed to have felt at this point, 175 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: right at least according to this story. But yeah, you're 176 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: you're exactly right. I love it. And and there are 177 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: other versions of the story, by the way, particularly told 178 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: by one author named Iamblicus, who say that it was 179 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: not Pythagoras himself who died because he wouldn't cross a 180 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: bean field, but that it was a cadre of his 181 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: disciples who were chased to the edge of the field 182 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: and then accepted this gruesome death rather than cross it. 183 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: And in Iamblicus version in particular, there's this detail that 184 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: the last member of pythagoras As followers who were slain 185 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: was a pregnant woman named Timika, who bit off her 186 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: own tongue rather than reveal the secret of why the 187 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: beans were prohibited. That's more. That's more walking behind the rose. 188 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, that's that's some straight up Stephen 189 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: king Jeue right there. Now, As I mentioned, there are 190 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: other accounts of the death of Pythagoras, but what we 191 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: know is that either this account is in some way 192 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: based on the truth, or if not, it was at 193 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: least considered plausible enough to believe given what people knew 194 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: about Pythagoras in the ancient world. And it seems that 195 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: one of the things widely known about him was that 196 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: he really disdained beans. Have come across some really good 197 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: illustrations of him, you know, just saying like no to beans. 198 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: Like he's standing next to a bunch of beans and 199 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: he's like, uh yeah, both hands up, looking away away. 200 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: So why on earth would anybody believe that that this 201 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: ancient Greek religious leader would rather die a painful, bloody 202 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: death than trespass the bean field. Well, there are a 203 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: ton of possible answers, and in a way, I think 204 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: they're all fascinating. But here's one of the main ones 205 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk about. And we will go 206 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: through a number here, as as explored by Albola in 207 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: his book, But one of the main things comes down 208 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: to a teaching that is consistently associated with Pythagoras in 209 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: the earliest writings about his life, which is that he 210 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: taught the metaphysical doctrine known as metam psychosis, which is 211 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: usually translated into English as the transmigration of souls. This 212 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: is actually very similar to other ideas of reincarnation that 213 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: you might have encountered before. So, according to the doctrine 214 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: of the transmigration of souls, the Pythagoreans believed that there 215 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: was an immaterial and immortal soul that was separate from 216 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: the body. This soul would survive the death of the body, 217 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: and after the death of the body, the soul would 218 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: be installed in a new body, possibly the body of 219 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: another human or another animal. And this probably connects to 220 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: one of the other Pythagorean teachings that I mentioned before, 221 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: which is that it's widely understood that the Pythagoreans preached 222 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: against the eating of meat. He and his followers were 223 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: said to be vegetarians. And if if he was both 224 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: a vegetarian and a believer that that human souls and 225 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: animal souls would transmigrate back and forth into human and 226 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: animal bodies, you can kind of see how these beliefs 227 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: would fit together, Like if you were to eat a 228 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: chicken or a cow, you might literally be cannibalizing a 229 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: dead relative. Now, if this is truly what Pythagoras taught, 230 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: it is not known for sure where he got this idea, 231 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: though it's been speculated that he could have acquired it 232 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: from Indian thought during his travels. It has said that 233 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: he traveled all over the ancient world. But where this 234 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: idea comes from, we just don't know. Yeah, I mean, 235 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: obviously it sounds like a in many ways, like a 236 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: less robust version of of reincarnation as you encounter it 237 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: in in in Buddhism, in Hinduism. Uh. But yeah, so 238 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: it would be interesting if this was an idea that 239 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: he picked up in his travels. There are some ancient authors, 240 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: like I recall reading somewhere that I think it might 241 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: have been Herodotus who said that Pythagoras got this idea 242 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: from the Egyptians. But I don't think there's any indication 243 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: that Egyptian religion ever featured reincarnation in this way, so 244 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: that seems to be probably a mistake on herodotus part. Now, 245 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: a slight variation on the reasoning here is just that 246 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: vegetarianism was considered consistent with a non violent way of 247 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: life preached by the Pythagoreans. But so this makes sense, right. 248 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: You don't know the exact reason, but it would seem 249 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: to all sort of fit together if he believed in 250 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: the transmigration of souls and also preached vegetarianism that you know, 251 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: don't eat animals because they might have souls that you would, 252 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, wouldn't want to be eating in them. But 253 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: then there's this other strange dietary prohibition of the Pythagorean cult, 254 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: which is that Pytho a garis allegedly forbade his followers 255 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: to eat beans, which, again, modern vegetarians and vegans, you know, 256 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: you know that you need the beans. Yeah, exactly, and 257 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: it seems counterintuitive in several ways. Yes, this is a 258 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: problem right now. At the time, within Greek culture, these 259 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: would have been over overwhelmingly. This would have been referring 260 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: to fava beans, like the Fasciola's genus that gives rise 261 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: to many of the common beans we eat today. That 262 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: is a genus that comes from the America's and had 263 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: not crossed the Atlantic yet. So probably what they're talking 264 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: about here are fava beans, though I guess there could 265 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: have been lentils and stuff too, But it seems they 266 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: were referring to fava beans, and fava beans were a 267 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: common source of food for people and for grazing animals 268 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: like for cattle in the Mediterranean at the time. Of course, 269 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: beans are an especially important food if you're a vegetarian. 270 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: So why would Pythagoras have forbidden not only eating them, 271 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: but even treading upon them, even going into a field 272 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: where they're being grown. Well, here, I'm want to quote 273 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: from Albola's book. Quote. The simplest and perhaps most plausible 274 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: explanation is that beans are part of the whole cycle 275 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: of reincarnation and they house human souls. To eat a 276 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: bean is thus a form of murder. This was varros 277 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: explanation and Orphic Fragment puts it like this, eating beans 278 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: and knowing on the heads of one's parents are one 279 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: and the same. I think that's a sufficiently vivid image, right, 280 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: Like you you want to eat beans, how would you 281 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: feel about chewing on your dad's head? It's a very 282 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: it's very dantea and actually it makes me think of 283 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: Count Ugolino and Archbishop Grugieri. But anyway, so yeah, the 284 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: idea here would be that beans contain souls, potentially human souls. 285 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: Now there's more. Now, I want to get into more 286 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: explanation on that mode of thinking in a bit, but 287 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: first I also just wanted to mention some alternative explanations 288 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: offered by other writers over the centuries, which Alba sort 289 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: of catalogs and discusses. Now, there are some explanations for 290 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: the being prohibition that would be based in politics. So 291 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: I think these would be more sort of metaphorical interpretations 292 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: of the idea that the Pythagoras would would have being scorn. 293 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: One idea here is that beans were a symbol of democracy, 294 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: the democracy that Pythagoras hated, because beans were used to 295 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: cast votes. Right, you might have a jar where if 296 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: you want to vote, you you put in a black bean, 297 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: and if you want to vote in a put in 298 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: a white bean, or maybe you put in different jars, 299 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, something like that. It can be a it 300 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: can be a way to tally anonymous votes. Of course, 301 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: in a proper oligarchy. Uh, nobody would need to vote 302 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: with beans, right, that's right, the best rule. And then 303 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: do you just keep your beans at home or in 304 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: the field? Uh? Yeah, or you or you just keep 305 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: them away. But also the idea here is that there 306 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: could be a political implication, which is just that beans 307 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: are the food of the working class, whereas meat was 308 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: preferred by the riche leads, and probably in Pythagoras's view, 309 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: the better people, the people who deserve to rule because 310 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: of their virtues, would have been associated with meat, well 311 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: you know, whereas the people who don't know how to 312 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: rule a city that they would be the people eating beans. 313 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: I guess one way one thing we have to sort 314 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: of think about with this, this idea of this being 315 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: the part of the Pythagoraan belief system is to realize 316 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: too that it doesn't mean they were necessarily going out 317 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: trying to liberate the bean fields or or necessarily trying 318 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: to change the way that other groups UH consumed food. 319 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: They could have been very like uh closed off from 320 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: them and saying this is how we live, this is 321 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: and then we are better for it. Um. I think 322 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: that's that's kind of a distinction. I think in general 323 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: we have to keep in mind when thinking about different 324 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: religious religious groups in the contemporary world, for sure, but 325 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: also just historically that that not every religious group is 326 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: going to be about about spreading their belief system to 327 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: all around them, right, and not all like religious dietary 328 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: restrictions are meant to be a universal rule. For example, 329 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of religious scholars of 330 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: say like Judaism and Islam that would say, like prohibitions 331 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: on pork and other types of food that are prohibited 332 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: within that religion are not meant to be universal prohibitions, 333 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: but their prohibitions for the faithful. But then again, I'm 334 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: not sure if we that's a possibility always when you're 335 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: considering dietary restrictions that are advocated by religious groups. But 336 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: I do recall coming across at least one legend the 337 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: one for I don't recall the source of this where 338 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: Pythagoras was said to have tried to convince a cow 339 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: not to eat fava beans. If you're if you're preaching 340 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: the cows, that's probably it probably means you want all 341 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: humans to obey as well, right, But then again, that 342 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: also sounds like a perfect parody of someone whose belief 343 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: system you're you don't agree with, don't completely understand. You're like, oh, 344 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: I bet Pathagoras is out there. What's he gonna do? 345 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: Is gonna tell the cows not deep beans? Yeah, though 346 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: that that could very well be the context there. Um, Okay, 347 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: so there are other possible explanations. One is more nutritional 348 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: and psychological, you know, pretty straightforward. Beans give you gas, 349 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: and gas prevents you from having a clear head, and 350 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: a lot of ancient philosophers were really concerned about like 351 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: cutting things out that would cause problems in the body 352 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: that would interfere with you having clear thinking. You've gotta 353 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: have a clear head to live a good life, and 354 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: so you can't be going around farting. You know, this 355 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: is this is interesting because I was I was thinking 356 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: about this, like in terms of how we think about 357 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: flatulence and plate us. We it's easy to have a 358 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: very like one to one vision of that, you know, 359 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: the idea of like, well, farting is distracting and you 360 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: don't want to do it. That's going to mess with 361 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: your mental um outlook. Or you know, we'll or we'll 362 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: get into some of these ideas later where it's like, well, 363 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: a fart is a ghost. You don't want ghosts coming 364 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: out of your but you know that kind of thing. 365 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: But Uh, there's an idea that I ran across in 366 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: a book that I was I was really enjoying reading 367 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 1: through Bok called Plants of Life Plants of Death by 368 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: Frederick J. Simons and We which which deals not not 369 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: only with beans but various other plants entered traditions in 370 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: a number of different cultures in the East and in 371 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: the West and in Africa, etcetera. About how there are 372 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: these different ideas of life and death wrapped up in them. 373 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: And in getting into the idea of of beans and 374 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: flatulens and in discussing Pythagorean bean bands, uh he discussed 375 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: several of the possibilities, but but one that I hadn't 376 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: really thought about was the connection between flatuans and bad dreams. 377 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: And he credits uh Fredericus bomb in this idea. But 378 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: I've also read that Diogenes touched on this in considering 379 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: but Pythagorean ideas quote, one should abstain from fava beans 380 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: since they are full of wind and take part in 381 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: the soul. And if one abstains from from them, one 382 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: stomach will be less noisy, and this is key, one's 383 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: dreams will be less oppressive and calmer. Now, that quote 384 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: attributed to uh uh two Diagenes was brought up in 385 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: an l A Times article on beings from by Russ Parsons. 386 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: But I thought that was that that was interesting, perhaps 387 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: more telling. Yeah, if you're if your sleep is troubled, 388 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: if your dreams are troubled, troubled because you're you're going 389 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: to bed gassy with means then that that could very 390 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: well darken your outlook on life or or mess with 391 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: your head, especially in an age where you have, you know, 392 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: maybe more supernatural ideas, uh, concerning dreams and the interpretation 393 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: of dreams. Yeah, that's really interesting, But I mean another 394 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: way to think about it, though, I guess it's like 395 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: it's gonna like the coach of the chess team is 396 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: also going to be like telling all of their players, 397 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: like don't eat cookies right before you don't eat pickles 398 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: when you're going to bet or something. They're trying to 399 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: keep their people in in like ship shape. Yeah. Like 400 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: reading through some of the other stuff in Simmons book, 401 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: there's you get into a lot of their pro abitions 402 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: against foods because their connection to dreams, but also prohibitions 403 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: against foods that could be consumed in a dream, Like 404 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: it's not not that you shouldn't eat basil before you 405 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: go to bed, but you've offered basil within the dream, 406 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: you should abstain. Um. Now, I was looking for more 407 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: to promise I can't keep yeah, yeah, I mean once 408 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: you're in the dream, and not to say nothing of 409 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: the dream within a dream. Um. But but I was 410 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: looking around he for a little bit more about this, 411 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: and I found an echo of this sentiment in Iranian 412 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: traditional medicine uh, in the two thousand fourteen paper Insomnia 413 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 1: and Iranian Traditional Medicine by Face of Body at All uh. 414 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: Here's the quote. Upward movement of rancid vapors towards the 415 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: brain due to eating flagellent and vaporous foods beans lintel 416 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: Leak and Finn of Greek cause upward movement of vapor 417 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: towards the head, heavy headed, feeling, headache, depraved, delusion, nightmares, 418 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: and consequently awaking at night in fearing during sleep. Wow. 419 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think after reading that, I'm even more convinced. Yeah, 420 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: if you're if you're you know, gassy and full of 421 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: nightmares and flatus is waking you up in the night. Um, 422 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: I could see where that could lead into some ideas 423 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: that yes, these are some foods that should be avoided, 424 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: certainly before you go to bed, but maybe in general 425 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: if the if the dreams are bad enough, well that 426 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: makes me want to respond to to to these folk 427 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: beliefs with some actual science on farting and beings. So 428 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: what if we take a brief little detail here on 429 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: the science of lagoons and flatulence. Yeah, let's get down 430 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: to it. Okay, So the question is do beings cause flatulence? 431 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: That seems to be a widely believed association, and if so, 432 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: why do they cause flatulence? Well, the answer seems to 433 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: be yes, they do, but maybe not as much as 434 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: you might think, and that there are very good, well 435 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: known reasons why they cause flatulence. So the gas produced 436 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: during the digestion of beings is actually not produced by 437 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: the cells of your body themselves, but by your gut microbiota. 438 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: The bacteria, particularly in your large intestine, that breakdown molecules 439 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: that your own metabolism sort of gives up. On dried 440 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: beans even after cooking, usually contain compounds known as oligo saccharides, 441 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: and I found an article in the Journal of Nutrition 442 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: explaining this. This was by In fact, I wonder if 443 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: we have cited this article before. It may have come 444 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: up in our Pardonomicon episode several years back. Um, but 445 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: this is by Donna M. Wyndham and Andrea M. Hutchins 446 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: from the Nutrition Journal called Perceptions of Flatulence from being 447 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: consumption among Adults in three Feeding Studies. This was published 448 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven, and so I just wanted to 449 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: look at the relevant paragraph where they break down the 450 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: metabolic pathway that causes flatulence as a result of eating 451 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: dried beans. So quote, most lagoons contain relatively high amounts 452 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: of both dietary fiber and resistant star arches. These would 453 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: be the oligosaccharides I just mentioned. The soluble oligosaccharides found 454 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: in lagoons are not digestible by human intestinal enzymes alone. Instead, 455 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 1: oligosaccharides such as raphinos and stachios are broken down by 456 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: bacterial fermentation in the intestines. Although some rectal gas is 457 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: due to the ingestion of air, the majority of flatulence 458 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: is produced from bacterial fermentation. The byproducts of this degradation 459 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: are hydrogen, carbon dioxide, methane, and sometimes sulfur depending on 460 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: the bacteria. Normal intestinal processes move these gases out of 461 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: the body in the form of flatus. So the primary 462 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: cause of of beans leading to farts is the action 463 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: of the bacteria in the gut. I think specifically the 464 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: large intestine fermenting these starches that the body can't break 465 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: down on its own these oligosaccharides. And the authors also 466 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: point out that while they're is evidence that eating beans 467 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: can increase flatulence on average, there is a lot of 468 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: individual variations, so they're not going to increase flatulence or 469 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: increase it in the in the at the same rate 470 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: for everybody. Uh to quote from the results of their 471 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: feeding studies a measuring flatulence quote, less than fifty percent 472 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: reported increased flatulence from eating pinto or baked beans during 473 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: the first week of each trial, only nineteen percent had 474 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: a flatulence increase, with black eyed peas a small percentage 475 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: three to eleven reported increased flatulence across the three studies, 476 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: even on control diets without flatulence producing components and so yes, 477 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: it does appear that on average, beans do increase flatulence, 478 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: but they say that people's concerns about excess farting from 479 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: eating beans may be exaggerated compared to how much difference 480 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: they actually make. Now, coming back to a note that's 481 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: explored an Albola's book on this, mentioning that these these 482 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: starches that can't be broken down by the body itself 483 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: but have to be fermented by the bacteria in the gut, 484 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: these oligo saccharides, they have to be fermented in the 485 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: large intestine, specifically as a product of eating dried beans, 486 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: not fresh beans. And this is interesting because you can 487 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: see how that has um sort of it translates to 488 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: the differing reputations of these vegetables, like fresh green peas 489 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: are beans that they are of the family Fabasi, and 490 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: I've never heard anybody link green peas to flatulence. They're 491 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: eaten fresh fresh green beans are beans. They're beings still 492 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: in their pods. They're actually the common being Fasiola's vulgaris, 493 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: and yet they don't have this association either, so they 494 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: don't seem to create these oligo saccharide problems. But there's 495 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: a trade off, of course, which is that by being 496 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: served fresh, they have to be more they have to 497 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: be served more seasonally, or they have to be frozen. 498 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: They don't offer the same advantages in terms of the 499 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: simplicity and durability of their storage and shelf life version 500 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: that you get from dried beans. But anyway, okay, scientific 501 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: digression on flatulence done. Now, I want to move back 502 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: to all black cataloging the reasons that Pythagoras might have 503 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: disdained the eating of beans. So another explanation that has 504 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: been given by writers over the years is, well, what 505 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 1: if it's just because beans are too delicious? You know 506 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: that this is basically a prohibition against gluttony. This is 507 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: perhaps plausible, though it doesn't seem to fit with most 508 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: of the other thinking of the time that looked on 509 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: beans not as like a decadent luxury, but as like 510 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: the exact opposite of that. Maybe maybe this was just 511 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: offered by some ancient writer who personally really loved beans, 512 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: or perhaps you know the idea that it's what it's 513 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: something available in bulk enough that that more people can 514 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: be gluttonous about it. I don't know, maybe I mean, 515 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: but but yeah, you don't see that coming up a 516 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: lot like the bean is not the symbol of gluttony. 517 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: You don't think of Uh, well, no, no, I don't 518 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: think you do. You don't think of the mean like 519 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: it again, it is it is often attributed a sort 520 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: of the food of the common man. Okay, now we're 521 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: going to get into sexual biomagical explanations, of which there 522 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: are a number. So in this category we get into 523 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: some really weird territory under this explanation, and this was 524 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: this was again put forward by a number of ancient 525 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: writers who were commenting on abstention from beings. Uh. In 526 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: this explanation, beings are to be avoided because, in various ways, 527 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,239 Speaker 1: they either resemble human genitals or they have something to 528 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 1: do with sex, procreation, or regenerative power. And there there 529 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: are several ancient stories that compare fava beans in particular 530 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: to female genitals. But there's another one that connects all 531 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: the way back to the transmigration of souls explanation, and 532 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: this goes from the connection to of beans to testicles. 533 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: Here I want to read from Albala again. Quote. Aristotle 534 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: picks up this thread when he explains that beans are 535 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: like testicles, but adds that they are like the gates 536 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: of hades in being the only plant that has no joints. 537 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: That's some great Aristotle logic. Now what would that mean? Well, 538 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: al Willa continues that is, bean stems are hollow and 539 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: have no nodes, and thus serve as a kind of 540 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: elevator shaft from the underworld, the means of exchange for souls. Actually, 541 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: they are specifically compared to a ladder, and this makes 542 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: sense if one has ever seen fava bean pods protruding 543 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: horizontally from a plant, they do resemble a ladder. This 544 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: would explain the reluctance to run through a bean field 545 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: and trample the stems, as well as the ban on 546 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: picking the pods or rungs of the ladder. In short order, 547 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: Aristotle also claimed that the beans were avoided because they 548 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: are like the form of the universe, perhaps again a 549 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: veiled reference to their regenerative power. Even otter is the 550 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: idea that a nibbled bean leaf in the sun will 551 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: smell like semen or the blood of a murdered person, 552 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: which must smell different from ordinary blood. Uh. Good editorializing 553 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: from Alba there. Uh. In any case, all of these 554 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: notions point to the idea that beings are some transitional 555 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: form of human in the great transmigration of souls. Yeah, 556 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: this one is putting flatulence in my brain. The papers 557 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: are floating up. This is the kind of a statement 558 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: here that it can feel like like genuine madness setting 559 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: in you know where, where too many connections are made 560 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: between unrelated things and and then you end up seeing 561 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: like the human soul in everything around you. Um, it 562 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: just sounds like just falling into the philosophic deep end 563 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: and sinking to the bottom. Well, we're gonna sink even 564 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: farther the same types of associations. They keep going on. 565 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: So Albola explores some linguistic connections between ancient words for 566 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: beings in various languages I think primarily and like in 567 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: European languages, and associations between that and words for swelling 568 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: or rotund nous, which could in some ways connect to 569 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: ideas of swelling up with flatulence, but also to pregnancy fertility. 570 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: In the generation of life and in the latter vein, 571 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: many ancient authors seem to make an association that seems 572 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: quite bizarre, probably to most modern listeners, but an association 573 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: between foods that make you fart and foods that make 574 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: you sexually potent. Again, this there's basically a linguistic conceptual 575 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: logic to it, especially in ancient Greek thought, and Albola 576 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: explains it like this, So, so you've got numa, you know. 577 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: This is where we get like the word numatic p 578 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: n e u m a meaning air or breath or soul. 579 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: The Latin equivalent would be anima, as in like animated, 580 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: like an animal is. So there's already this existing linguistic 581 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: association between like the breath or the gas and and 582 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: what the soul is, and that this is the principle 583 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: that animates a being and makes it alive. So like 584 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: in much ancient Greek thought, when you die, your your 585 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: breath leaves you, you know, like the gas of your 586 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: soul evaporates from your body. And also in the creation 587 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: of life, there's a breathing of life into things as 588 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: an exchange of gas literally elblow rights that the numa 589 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: quote was the basic principle of life, and it is 590 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: generated in the stomach in the form of gas, just 591 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: as it is transferred in the act of reproduction. This 592 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: also explains the bizarre association among authors like plenty of 593 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: flatulence with the libido. In other words, eating beans not 594 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: only makes you fart, it helps you conceive the being 595 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: actually contains the regenerative force, and so this can be 596 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: applied in multiple different ways. Elblow rights that uh that 597 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: you know, you may want to eat beans to absorb 598 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: the power of the souls if you're trying to like 599 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: stimulate the farting and the libido part of your body. 600 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: But like the pythagoreans, you might do want to do 601 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: the opposite and avoid eating these beans because of the 602 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: sort of like windy regenerative soul power that's contained within them. 603 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: Very weird. Now, we've been exploring a lot of the 604 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: explanations that lie behind this in terms of I don't know, 605 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: linguistic associations and religious thinking and stuff, But there are 606 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: also some biological realities that Elbola explorers that could possibly 607 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: have to do with beans h and how they could 608 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: have influenced the creation of this story about Pythagoras. These 609 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 1: following explanations that I'm going to mention are not things 610 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: that were explored by any ancient writers. These are are 611 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: modern explanations that have been offered. And the first is 612 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: based on a heritable genetic condition that causes an enzyme deficiency. 613 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: So most people can eat fava beans and breathe the 614 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: pollen of fava bean flowers and they're just fine. But 615 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: there is a very rare, inherited medical condition that causes 616 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: a specific enzyme deficiency in the body, which can in 617 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: turn cause catastrophic reactions to the ingestion of fava beans 618 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: or fava bean pollen uh and this condition is known 619 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: as favi is um, caused by an underlying glucose six 620 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency or G six p d D. People 621 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: with G six p d D can have horrible, even 622 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: deadly reactions to fava beans in their pollen, and if 623 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: a person with this condition eats fresh raw fava beans, 624 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: it can lead to a reaction called acute hemolytic anemia, 625 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: or the sudden destruction of copious amounts of the body's 626 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: red blood cells now outwardly. This can result in symptoms 627 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: like fatigue, difficulty breathing, fever, yellowing of the skin, dark urine, 628 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: and in extreme cases it can even be fatal. So 629 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: a question some modern scholars have posed is could Pythagoras 630 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: have prohibited fava beans because he witnessed somebody having an 631 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: acute reaction due to G six PDD. Interesting possibility, but 632 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: it seems like one of the I mean, there are 633 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: a lot of explanations like this for records of the 634 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: ancient world that like fit together in interesting ways, But 635 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 1: I didn't. I don't feel like there's any particular reason 636 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: to favor this hypothesis. No, I mean, it seems plausible, 637 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: you know, either he witnessed this or he heard accounts 638 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: of this happening. Hey, some people have been known to 639 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: eat fava beans and grow, you know, extremely ill, or 640 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: even die. But yeah, if we don't have any specific 641 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: cases for it, specific instances in in the writing, then yeah, 642 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if we should put too much emphasis 643 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: on it. One thing is it is interesting about the 644 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: idea of avoiding not just eating the beans, but avoiding 645 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: running into a bean field, like if the pollen could 646 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: even trigger the reaction. I mean, that's kind of interesting. 647 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: You could really see it potentially playing into some of 648 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: these ideas, especially if we get when we get more 649 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: and more into this, this this realization that the being 650 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: fear and the being holiness here is by no means 651 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: just uh, something that jumped out of Pythagoras's head, right, 652 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: This seems to have been a cultural idea, perhaps a 653 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: widespread cultural idea, but we'll get more into that in 654 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: a minute. Now. Another interesting scientific observation. Again, this is 655 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: not from ancient interpreters. This one might be original to 656 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: all below, but at least it's it's not ancient um. 657 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: This could complement the previous evidence that Pythagoras believed beings 658 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: to contain souls. And the simple fact here is that 659 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: sometimes it looks like being plants bleed. Yeah, there's a 660 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: chain of biological causes at work here. Essentially, being roots 661 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: can become infected by a bacterium known as rhizobium, and 662 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: these bacteria thrive in tiny little oxygen starved chambers within 663 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: the roots or nodes on the roots, and the bacteria 664 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: exists in a mutualistic relationship with the bean plants. So 665 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: the bacterium is, according to Albola, able to extract ammonium 666 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: nitrate from the atmosphere, which it shares with the plant, 667 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: which is good for the plant. And then the plant 668 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,479 Speaker 1: provides these little anaerobic nodes for the bacteria to live 669 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: on and in, and they both create proteins that bind 670 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: whatever free oxygen is available with the help of iron molecules. 671 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: This might be familiar to people who know anything about 672 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: animal biology or medical science. Albola rights quote. This protein 673 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: is called leg hemoglobin and functions much in the same 674 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: way hemoglobin does in our blood, binding oxygen with iron 675 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: for our bodies to use in cellular respiration. Moreover, when cut, 676 00:38:54,680 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: the nodes are read exactly like blood, so Matt being 677 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 1: in the ancient world, you cut open a bean plant, 678 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: there are parts of it that, if you cut cut open, 679 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: might bleed or look like they're filled with blood, and 680 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: these little nodes would look red like human blood for 681 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: basically the same reason that human blood is read. Now, 682 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: I know a lot of you are probably thinking right now, 683 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, I bet Pythagoras just hated beats then, um, 684 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: And you know, actually, according to Simmons, we do see 685 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: aversion to beats in some cultures. He he mentions prohibitions 686 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: against quote, certain plants as food or temple offerings because 687 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: their coats, flesh, or juice are similar to blood and 688 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 1: meat in color. So he cites examples members of the 689 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: Banaya cast of the of the Punjab with meat prohibitions 690 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: here extending two carrots, turnips, onions, and red lentils. Also 691 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: the prohibition of beat roots and tomatoes at Brahmin meals 692 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: and and Gujarat as well as Havoc Brahman in South India, 693 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: among others, and he mentions, um how Frasier got into 694 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: this a bit as well, the idea of like the 695 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 1: similarity between things. Um So, so that's Interating's not again 696 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: not specifically talking about Pathagoras in this instance, but we 697 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: do see this sort of thing in other cultures enough 698 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: to realize it's you know, it's kind of a universal 699 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: of uh phenomena of of of of humans engaging with 700 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: their food. Sometimes the food reminds you too much of 701 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: a thing that is prohibited, and the prohibition will extend 702 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: to those things you. If not in an every day way, 703 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: then certainly within the realm of sacred ritual. When it 704 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: comes to beat specifically, I can imagine another cause for 705 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: for for beat scorn, which would be possible. Horror at 706 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: going to the bathroom after consuming beats, which can be 707 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: even though it doesn't hurt you, it just visually you 708 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: could be quite alarming. Yes, yeah, new parents always warn 709 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: your child the first time they have a lot of 710 00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 1: beats or or blue cupcakes, either one. Now I mentioned 711 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: the idea that there, you know, this idea of being 712 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: weirdness and beings and death and reproduction and so forth, 713 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: that it doesn't just emerge right out of Pythagoras's head, 714 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: that it is perhaps more universal. That's an argument that 715 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: Simmons makes in his book. Uh. He writes, quote, since 716 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: parallels to Pythagorian beliefs about the fava being are found 717 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: in the being beliefs involving various species of beans of 718 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: widely scattered non Indo European people's in Uganda, India, Japan, 719 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: New Guinea, and the New World, we are likely dealing 720 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 1: with basic human reactions to beings or lagoons in general, 721 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,320 Speaker 1: which I thought was interesting. Yeah, Okay, so this would 722 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,240 Speaker 1: be the idea that since there's there are similar kinds 723 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: of being, fascination and being magical beliefs in all these 724 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: different cultures that don't necessarily share like say, uh, language 725 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: or cooking traditions or anything like that. It might be 726 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: something more just like about the raw biology of beings 727 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: that causes people to have these sort of thoughts like 728 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: maybe the ways they look or things they do when 729 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: you eat them, Yes, and just thinking too hard and 730 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: too long about how they relate to our own worldview 731 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: and magical ideas. At this point, I want to own 732 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: to run through just a few other being uh ideas 733 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: that that that Frederick J. Simmons brings up in Plants 734 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: of Live, plants of death. These these are all related 735 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: to so what I loosely categorized as being death folk 736 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,840 Speaker 1: reliefs uh, sort of leaning into the Stephen king esque 737 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: um world of of of beings and the bean field 738 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: being a place of death, a pay, a place of 739 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: connection to the underworld and potentially rebirth. Okay, so we're 740 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: gonna walk behind the pods, yes, so um uh. He 741 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: points out that there was a British folk belief that 742 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: pregnant women should not eat beans because it could impact 743 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 1: the child mentally. Additionally, being blossoms have an evil reputation 744 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,959 Speaker 1: in Northern and Midland England. In coal mining districts, because 745 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: it was long held that coal mining accidents were far 746 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: more likely to occur when bean plants were blossoming. He 747 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: also writes that, according to German folk belief, beans and 748 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: peas were quote cult foods of demons, so it was 749 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: best not to eat them on nights that were quote 750 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: favorable for magical divination. Now, I have to admit that 751 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: that all kind of sounds like a riddle to me. 752 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure what that would mean. You like, 753 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 1: don't get down with the fava beans on vulpurchase knocked. Yeah, yeah, 754 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 1: something like that. I would imagine um uh because and 755 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: and certainly there's some more examples where we see beans 756 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:42,479 Speaker 1: connected to specific uh dates, specific traditional festivals. Because also 757 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: in Germany there were superstitions that eating peas on the 758 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: on twelfth night, that's the twelfth night after Christmas uh, 759 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: that this would give you vermin infestations or leprosy, and 760 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 1: that beans, peas or lintels during this time could at 761 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 1: least make you itch if you were to consume them. Now, 762 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: there's another British folk belief that bean fields are inhabited 763 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: by ghosts and spirits, and in nineteenth century Leicestershire, it 764 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 1: was said that if you slept in a bean field 765 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: all night, the awful dreams and resulting desires would just 766 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: drive you insane, like you would just you would not 767 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: survive a night in the bean fields. Sleeping a night 768 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: in the bean field would be like sleeping a night 769 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: in a haunted house. Who but due to my being love, 770 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: I want to say it's gonna be like that Simpsons 771 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: episode where they have to spend a night in the 772 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: haunted house discovered that the tap water tastes better than 773 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 1: the stuff they have at home. Now, um, I know 774 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,359 Speaker 1: what a lot of you're probably thinking. You're thinking, well, 775 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,359 Speaker 1: this is all well and good. But did beans ever 776 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: march in battle bringing forth an army of the undead 777 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: to march alongside in like walking trees and Welsh smith Well, 778 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: yes they did, because Sentons points to the writings of 779 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: the Welsh bard uh Talison, who described just such a scene, 780 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: quoting quoting the work um the elm trees he quotes 781 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: quote stood firm in the center of the battle. Heaven 782 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: and earth trembled before the advance of the Oak Tree. 783 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: The heroic Holly and Hawthorne defended themselves with their spikes, 784 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: and then meanwhile, the beans took part in battle by 785 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: quote bearing in its shade an army of phantoms. So 786 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: beans and spirits again. Yeah yeah, this idea that, like 787 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 1: the beans, the bean field is where you find the 788 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: ghosts that will drive you either you know, mad or 789 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 1: fill you with maddening desire. And the idea that you 790 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: have the trees were to to into all the plants 791 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: were to rise up and march in an army, then 792 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: the beans would surely lead an army of phantoms into battle. 793 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: I love that. Okay. I think we have a serious 794 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: deficiency in the horror fiction and horror movies of today, 795 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,360 Speaker 1: a deficiency of being themed horror. Right, this has got 796 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,799 Speaker 1: to be somebody's got to pick up on this. I 797 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,359 Speaker 1: feel like we have just largely abandoned our our understanding 798 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 1: of supernatural beings outside of like the one you know 799 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: of fairy all about magic beings that grow up gateways 800 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: to the world of the giants. Now, speaking of fava beans, 801 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: I was looking at a University of Copenhagen study looking 802 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: into the possibility of fava beans taking over more from 803 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: soybeans to meet the increasing popularity of plant based meat. Alternatives, 804 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: specifically in Denmark. The argument here is that fava beans 805 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: put less strain on the environment as a crop, and 806 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: unlike soy, they can be grown locally in Denmark as 807 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,720 Speaker 1: opposed to having depend on soy, which is largely grown 808 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: in the United States and in South America UM and 809 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: in particularly in South America. That's where you get into 810 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: some of the in the real environmental concerns about you know, 811 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 1: what kind of land is being transitioned into soy growing land. UM. 812 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: But the particular study here highlights the use of wet 813 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 1: fraction nation to concentrate fava being protein and removed digestion 814 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:58,320 Speaker 1: inhibiting substances in the beans, and the result is dry 815 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:03,200 Speaker 1: fractionated fava being oteen rich flower. Uh So. I don't 816 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: know where that will ultimately go, but it's it's an 817 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,720 Speaker 1: interesting interesting bit of of info there and potentially insight 818 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,880 Speaker 1: into the future again thinking about um you know, turning 819 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: more and more to um too artificial meats and bean 820 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 1: based diets and returned to the bean fields and and 821 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,800 Speaker 1: perhaps it returned to you know, beans, depending on beans 822 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: that that grow more naturally within a given region. Thank thank, 823 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,319 Speaker 1: thank Now there's another great being I wanted to talk 824 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: about for a bit here, and that's the black eyed 825 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,319 Speaker 1: pea also known as the cow pea. And yes it's 826 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,359 Speaker 1: called a p but it is a proper bean. It's 827 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,960 Speaker 1: in the family for Basi. And the modern species name 828 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,239 Speaker 1: of the cow pea is vigna on guiculata, which was 829 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,280 Speaker 1: once known as Vignus and insis because it was believed 830 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,399 Speaker 1: to have come from China, but this is now known 831 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: to be incorrect. Modern botanists and archaeologists believe that these 832 00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,560 Speaker 1: beans were first domesticated in Africa, probably originating in West 833 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: Africa that I've seen the possibility of Ethiopia as well. 834 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: But Albala and his book and notes that some of 835 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,600 Speaker 1: the archaeological evidence about their history it comes from the 836 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,399 Speaker 1: Chad Basin, which seems to indicate that people who were 837 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,919 Speaker 1: originally making a living primarily through animal herding, came into 838 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 1: the area about eighteen hundred BC, and within about six 839 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,799 Speaker 1: hundred years of occupying the Chad Basin, they began to 840 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,360 Speaker 1: convert to an agricultural civilization, with their staple crops consisting 841 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: of pearl, millet and black eyed peas. So again, like 842 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: we see in so many places in the world, a 843 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: transition to a settled farming existence based on a sort 844 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: of crop package of complementary grains and lagoons. I think 845 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: the examples we talked about the other episode, we'll say, 846 00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,280 Speaker 1: like you might have wheats or grasses like iron corn 847 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: and lentils, or you could have maize and beans in 848 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: UH in the Americas. But black eyed peas have been 849 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,279 Speaker 1: an important part of West African agriculture ever since, and 850 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 1: they've eventually, of course, spread all over the world. They 851 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,799 Speaker 1: spread north to Europe, they spread east to Asia, and 852 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: they're they're popular in all these different regions. Uh. And 853 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 1: of course they eventually became part of the food traditions 854 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 1: of enslaved people taken from Africa to the Caribbean and 855 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 1: to the southern US. So much like okra and rice, 856 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: which were also imported from African culinary traditions, black eyed 857 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 1: peas ended up becoming foundational elements of Southern American cooking 858 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: in general. Yeah. Absolutely, I've seen some there's been some 859 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:32,279 Speaker 1: excellent cooking documentaries about this connection. UM and UH and 860 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 1: and I and I have to say, if anyone out there, 861 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 1: if you haven't had um a bean sandwich, UH connected 862 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: to some of these African culinary traditions, or at least 863 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 1: descended from them. I highly recommended, like it's it's so good. 864 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:47,759 Speaker 1: I love black eyed peas, and I've never had a 865 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 1: bean sandwich, so I gotta I gotta look that up. 866 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,239 Speaker 1: Do you know a good place to get one in town? Um? 867 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: I don't know that I've had one at a restaurant. 868 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 1: I've just we've just followed some recipes. But but and yeah, 869 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: you can find some really good recipes online. In fact, 870 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,040 Speaker 1: there's some form for black eyed pea based sandwiches, which 871 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,400 Speaker 1: which can be a way to because we have that 872 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: kind of like loose New Year tradition of eat black 873 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: eyed peas, right because they're they're good luck or it's 874 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,239 Speaker 1: part of a good luck suite of foods. That's the 875 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,080 Speaker 1: health part of the package. Right, You eat eat pork, 876 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,920 Speaker 1: black eyed peas, and grains, and that's for what happiness, 877 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,320 Speaker 1: health and wealth. Yeah. Yeah, and so the black eyed peas, 878 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 1: if they're cooked certain ways, can be kind of a 879 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 1: hard sell. But I tell you, if you make a 880 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,239 Speaker 1: really tasty sandwich with them, you're good to go. Okay, well, 881 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to try the sandwich. But but anyway, 882 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: like other examples we've we've looked at, beans seem to 883 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,360 Speaker 1: occupy a sort of hub of religious significance in the 884 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,360 Speaker 1: West African context as well. And all Bla mentions that, 885 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,720 Speaker 1: for example, in Yoruba religious practice, people would regularly offer 886 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,320 Speaker 1: meals often based on black eyed peas to the godly 887 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: beings or spirits of the Yoruba religion known as Orisha's 888 00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 1: and Albula quotes this interesting Yoruba proverb that goes, you 889 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 1: do not know what black eyed peas are like for dinner? 890 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,040 Speaker 1: And I was like, whoa, I wonder what that means. 891 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: But he explains that it refers to a person who 892 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,480 Speaker 1: is so stupid and negligent that he is totally unmindful 893 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: of the consequences of his actions. So like, you're you're 894 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 1: so dumb you don't know what black eyed peas are 895 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,560 Speaker 1: like for dinner. That's very easy. But another interesting thing 896 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 1: about black eyed peas is um that one of the 897 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 1: cultivars that became especially popular, and I think Eastern and 898 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: Southeast Asia are the so called yard long beans. So 899 00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,960 Speaker 1: these are a variety of cowpy They are vigna anguiculata, 900 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 1: but they are the subspecies uh sesquipedalists. They are not 901 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,359 Speaker 1: actually a yard long, despite their name. I think they're 902 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: usually about half that, but they are really long. I 903 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,319 Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever bought these and tried to 904 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,200 Speaker 1: cook with them or I remember like just like kind 905 00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 1: of laughing as I was trying to like handle them 906 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,319 Speaker 1: one time at the farmer's market. Yeah, I don't know 907 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,120 Speaker 1: if you included a picture. I don't know if we've 908 00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,600 Speaker 1: actually tried to cook with with with is this long? 909 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,839 Speaker 1: But you have to like chopaman half right or well? 910 00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,359 Speaker 1: I think sometimes you you just shell them, like you 911 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,879 Speaker 1: get the fresh peas out of them. But but yeah, 912 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,920 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I I honestly do not remember what 913 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,680 Speaker 1: I did with them when I got them. Being enthusiasts, 914 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,279 Speaker 1: let us know, how do you handle these things? I 915 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,480 Speaker 1: got another black eyed pea fact that I think is 916 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,880 Speaker 1: very interesting. And this picks up on something we've mentioned 917 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,880 Speaker 1: a couple of times on the show before. It's one 918 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 1: of those, you know, those sort of mind opening moments 919 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,879 Speaker 1: that is triggered by a simple reimagination of a food item. 920 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,239 Speaker 1: In the past, we've talked about how avocados. You know 921 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: American audiences, I think primarily are going to think of 922 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,440 Speaker 1: avocados as a savory food, right, you have them in 923 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,240 Speaker 1: salty applications or not necessarily they don't have to be salty, 924 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 1: but you wouldn't usually think of putting avocados in sweet foods. 925 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,120 Speaker 1: But that is by no means universal, and it is 926 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,640 Speaker 1: in no way based on objective things about the food itself. 927 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,840 Speaker 1: That's just a cultural convention. Avocados are used in sweet 928 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,560 Speaker 1: applications in all kind kinds of food traditions. Oh absolutely, yeah, 929 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,719 Speaker 1: I mean, have a cat of smoothies for example, can 930 00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,840 Speaker 1: be quite sweet and quite lovely. But there's another food 931 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,920 Speaker 1: that's like this, black eyed peas. Black eyed peas are 932 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,120 Speaker 1: sometimes used in sweet rather than savory dishes. If you 933 00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 1: haven't had it, that can be kind of hard to imagine. 934 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: But for example, I was finding a bunch of recipes 935 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,319 Speaker 1: for a Vietnamese dessert food that was like like variations 936 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,239 Speaker 1: on the idea of sweet or coconut sticky rice with 937 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,480 Speaker 1: black eyed peas. Yeah, I mean, I mean that reminds 938 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,279 Speaker 1: me that you do encounter beans in a lot of 939 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,279 Speaker 1: of East Asian desserts, whether it be like a bean 940 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,640 Speaker 1: paste or a bean filling. That will be quite sweet. 941 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,799 Speaker 1: Another one I haven't tried, but that's going on my list. 942 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 1: So I gotta have uh sweet sticky rice with black 943 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,319 Speaker 1: eyed peas and a black eyed pea sandwich. Yeah, and 944 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,319 Speaker 1: get some red bean ice cream in there as well. 945 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,160 Speaker 1: It's good stuff. Now. Now, speaking of of of culinary 946 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:59,279 Speaker 1: traditions in East Asia, I thought we might take a 947 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,200 Speaker 1: little of time here to discuss the soybean, a vastly 948 00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: important being and one of humanity's principal food crops so um. 949 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,720 Speaker 1: In Chinese mythology, the soybean is one of the five 950 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,840 Speaker 1: grains which are either sacred themselves or their history is 951 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,839 Speaker 1: considered sacred. I think it depends on the telling, so 952 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,080 Speaker 1: the exact listing of five grains varies, but I think 953 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,800 Speaker 1: every version, at least every version I was coming across, 954 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,400 Speaker 1: does include soybeans. Whilst some tellings will include the adzuki 955 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,960 Speaker 1: bean as one of the five grains, but the soybeans 956 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: tend to make the list, and the five grains are 957 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,920 Speaker 1: often connected to the myths of Shinnong, the divine farmer 958 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,400 Speaker 1: who we've talked about on the show before, the culture 959 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:46,799 Speaker 1: hero and mythological ruler of ancient China, often depicted in 960 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 1: um in art is having bovine qualities to his appearance, 961 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,879 Speaker 1: including horns or horn like nubs on his head. Oh yeah, 962 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: we love Shinnong here. I think we talked about him 963 00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,360 Speaker 1: in the Mushroom Foraging episode, didn't we, Because there's legend 964 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,919 Speaker 1: that he he sort of tested the mushrooms to see 965 00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,000 Speaker 1: what was safe, right, because he is well he in general, 966 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,640 Speaker 1: he's being the father of agriculture. He's said to have 967 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,080 Speaker 1: sought out and sampled a vast multitude of plants, and 968 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,120 Speaker 1: you know, and that would have include mushrooms in the 969 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,520 Speaker 1: ancient sense, in order to determine what was beneficial and 970 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 1: what was not. And in doing so so it's also 971 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,120 Speaker 1: sometimes said that he sampled seventy poisons in one day. 972 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,560 Speaker 1: So again he's just it's the father of of of 973 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 1: agriculture and into a large extent, traditional medicine. But also 974 00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:36,160 Speaker 1: he's his personification of the gradual process of humanity figuring 975 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:41,120 Speaker 1: out what different plants do if they're consumed in different quantities. Now, 976 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,399 Speaker 1: as Um Haimowitz and a Shirtlift pointed out in two 977 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,280 Speaker 1: thousand fives debunking soybean myths and legends in the historical 978 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,239 Speaker 1: and popular literature. There are a lot of myths about 979 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,800 Speaker 1: soybeans that get passed along, and they ultimately involve everyone 980 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,800 Speaker 1: from Shinnong to Benjamin Franklin. While it is sometimes said 981 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,799 Speaker 1: that the mythical Shinnong gave us the soybean as a 982 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,760 Speaker 1: domestic crop five thousand years ago, uh, the author's stress 983 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:11,080 Speaker 1: at the real time period is likely UM eleventh century BC, 984 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,600 Speaker 1: or perhaps a bit earlier based on recorded history. So 985 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,040 Speaker 1: it's still really impressive. Yeah, Now, do we know anything 986 00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,160 Speaker 1: about how the soybean was domesticated or does it seem 987 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:23,839 Speaker 1: like one of those things we have to infer kind 988 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,960 Speaker 1: of like the examples we were talking about in part one, 989 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,040 Speaker 1: where it was probably like an accidental process of of 990 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,880 Speaker 1: picking and then cultivating the ones like the pods that 991 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:38,520 Speaker 1: stayed closed the longest and the natural varieties. I believe 992 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,319 Speaker 1: that's the case. I was reading, Uh Robert M. Stu 993 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:46,799 Speaker 1: bars Into the Wild of from in p. N. A. S. 994 00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,920 Speaker 1: And the exact date uh they write is still a 995 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,719 Speaker 1: matter of dispute, and quote. Most estimates approximate the domestication 996 00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,080 Speaker 1: occurred somewhere between three thousand, one hundred and nine thousand 997 00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:00,799 Speaker 1: years ago. So a fair amount of leeway. And you know, 998 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,440 Speaker 1: in any attempt to really pinpoint when this was domesticated, 999 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is actually something I came across. Uh 1000 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,279 Speaker 1: with the number of beings referenced in Albola's book, which 1001 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,200 Speaker 1: there are a number of cases where we really just 1002 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,719 Speaker 1: don't know when they refers to domesticated, it's just not 1003 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 1: you know, big question mark. Now, I want to get 1004 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,120 Speaker 1: things back into the magical realm here because I ran 1005 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:27,200 Speaker 1: across this, this wonderful tradition, this festival known as setsubun, 1006 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,040 Speaker 1: and it's um It's a tradition in Japan involving beings. 1007 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,400 Speaker 1: It's a spring festival, and it means changing of the seasons, 1008 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,520 Speaker 1: and it has the same energy as a number of 1009 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:41,040 Speaker 1: seasonal change traditions in uh In, in Eastern cultures, in 1010 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:45,040 Speaker 1: cultures in general, including the expulsion of evil spirits and 1011 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,440 Speaker 1: bad luck and the invocation of good luck and good health. 1012 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,240 Speaker 1: Uh and this one in particular appears to have roots 1013 00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,520 Speaker 1: in Chinese lunar New Year traditions that took on new 1014 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:59,480 Speaker 1: form in Japanese culture. So one of the activities around 1015 00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,160 Speaker 1: this time, and you know, there's several different things. It's 1016 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:02,800 Speaker 1: not just one thing you do, but one of the 1017 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,680 Speaker 1: activities involves driving the only out of one's house. So 1018 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,640 Speaker 1: the only we've I think we've discussed them on the 1019 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: show before. Uh in one of our Halloween episodes, only 1020 00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:17,520 Speaker 1: were evil spirits or demons thought capable of causing illness 1021 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,840 Speaker 1: and disease. I think we may have even discussed some 1022 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,640 Speaker 1: kind of traditions of driving the only out of your house. 1023 00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,440 Speaker 1: This sounds very familiar. Well, one way you can do it, 1024 00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,720 Speaker 1: especially at sets a bund, is by pelting them with 1025 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 1: roasted soy beans. Uh. These are these are also a 1026 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:39,240 Speaker 1: traditional snack of the festivities, but they symbolize purity. Oh, 1027 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,720 Speaker 1: this makes me think of something that, uh, you know 1028 00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,640 Speaker 1: is something that so when I grew up, I always 1029 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,120 Speaker 1: thought of beans being cooked in a wet application. You know, 1030 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,760 Speaker 1: they're they're cooked in water, boiled over time. Of course, 1031 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,120 Speaker 1: you know you usually need to do that to dry beans, 1032 00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,080 Speaker 1: because this is another thing we actually haven't talked about 1033 00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:00,280 Speaker 1: in this episode yet, but many, many dry beans can 1034 00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 1: have high levels of toxins in them if you do 1035 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,240 Speaker 1: not boil them for before eating them. So you don't 1036 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:06,960 Speaker 1: ever want to take a dry bean and then just 1037 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,560 Speaker 1: soak it and eat it. That can give your food poisoning. 1038 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,160 Speaker 1: You don't want to do that. You got to boil 1039 00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,360 Speaker 1: the beans or cook it with high heat somehow. But 1040 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,920 Speaker 1: another common method in in many food traditions around the 1041 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,240 Speaker 1: world is roasting beans, roasting them dry in some way. 1042 00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,480 Speaker 1: And I think you could probably do this with with 1043 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,440 Speaker 1: fresher beans probably, but you can kind of pop some 1044 00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,920 Speaker 1: beans like you can make popcorn. Yeah. And and certainly 1045 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,760 Speaker 1: if you're trying to drive only out of the house, 1046 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,280 Speaker 1: you don't want to be thrown like handfuls of of 1047 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,439 Speaker 1: of canned beans or whole candy beans that's going to yeah, yeah, 1048 00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 1: especially since a lot of the times you can look 1049 00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,520 Speaker 1: at pictures of this and videos. It's pretty pretty charming 1050 00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,080 Speaker 1: because apparently sometimes it's schools. You'll have a principle or 1051 00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,680 Speaker 1: a teacher put on the only costume and the and 1052 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,120 Speaker 1: the children will be in the hallways and then they 1053 00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,040 Speaker 1: will throw the beans at the one to drive it 1054 00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,640 Speaker 1: out of the school. Oh that's great. Now. I was 1055 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,720 Speaker 1: reading a little bit more about this on the Japan 1056 01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Society website, and uh, I want to read a quote 1057 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 1: from from their web page that gets into some more 1058 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,880 Speaker 1: answers about why you would throw these beans at an owny, 1059 01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,840 Speaker 1: they write quote. To find an answer, we must go 1060 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,479 Speaker 1: back in time and look at Chinese numerology, where many 1061 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:22,320 Speaker 1: concepts come in fives to correspond to the five elements 1062 01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:27,160 Speaker 1: would water, fire, metal, and earth. Soybeans were included in 1063 01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,439 Speaker 1: what we're designated the five cereals or the five most 1064 01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:34,120 Speaker 1: important crops. That's what we just talked about. Uh, they continue. 1065 01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:39,320 Speaker 1: Soybeans or dado literally the big being, were considered particularly 1066 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,080 Speaker 1: powerful because they were believed to contain the spirits of 1067 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:47,600 Speaker 1: all the cereals combined. Um, mom ay or being is 1068 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,920 Speaker 1: a homophone for mommy, and I'm sure I'm not saying 1069 01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,520 Speaker 1: mommy correct in these these cases, but in both cases 1070 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,440 Speaker 1: they're saying it means destroying evil. So, soybeans were thought 1071 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:03,000 Speaker 1: to be especially effective weapons against only demons, somewhat like 1072 01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:07,920 Speaker 1: garlic is believed to be powerful against vampires in the West. Wow. Okay, 1073 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,560 Speaker 1: so the being the word being as a homophone for 1074 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,400 Speaker 1: another word that that sounds similar but means destroying evil. 1075 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,600 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so uh you know that's you see that 1076 01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,480 Speaker 1: connection come up time and time again when you're dealing 1077 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:25,280 Speaker 1: with you know, particularly with I've seen this, you know 1078 01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:28,600 Speaker 1: plenty of times in um in Chinese writings where you know, 1079 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:32,680 Speaker 1: something just doesn't translate, like the various ghost stories in 1080 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:37,680 Speaker 1: um uh In tales from a Chinese studio. Like in translation, 1081 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,320 Speaker 1: they're all still really amusing, but a lot of times 1082 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,440 Speaker 1: if you were reading them in the original Mandarin, there 1083 01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,959 Speaker 1: would be there would be homophones in place that would 1084 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,880 Speaker 1: make everything more meaningful or perhaps more funny in some cases. 1085 01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,280 Speaker 1: That sort of thing. Yeah, there's I mean, there's so 1086 01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,200 Speaker 1: many features of Chinese poetry that I've read about. It's 1087 01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:59,560 Speaker 1: just so difficult to capture effectively in translation. Uh. And 1088 01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,920 Speaker 1: I do of a lot of Chinese poetry and translation, 1089 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,280 Speaker 1: but I mean that's one thing. Another thing I've read 1090 01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:06,640 Speaker 1: about is just that like a lot of really good 1091 01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,200 Speaker 1: Chinese poetry has a has a quality of density that 1092 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:16,080 Speaker 1: cannot really be communicated in English. Yeah. Uh, Now, this 1093 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,560 Speaker 1: is this idea of using beans as a as a 1094 01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,000 Speaker 1: weapon against the demons, or some sort of protective amulet 1095 01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,600 Speaker 1: against demons. Ultimately, this can be found in plenty of 1096 01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:27,800 Speaker 1: other cultures as well. So I'd like to come back 1097 01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,320 Speaker 1: to Frederick J. Simmons Plants of Light plants of death, 1098 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,440 Speaker 1: because he has a number of other examples in which 1099 01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,600 Speaker 1: the beans are are serving as a weapon or a 1100 01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,200 Speaker 1: protection against evil spirits. He points out that British folk 1101 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,400 Speaker 1: belief once held that beans were associated with witches, and 1102 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,440 Speaker 1: you could protect yourself against a witch is evil spell 1103 01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:52,160 Speaker 1: by spitting a bean at her food. So yeah, I 1104 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,080 Speaker 1: mean it's I would not I don't think you should 1105 01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,440 Speaker 1: spit beans that people you think might be witches, but 1106 01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:00,360 Speaker 1: clearly it was once done. All right, here's another. He 1107 01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,040 Speaker 1: also writes that at the start of the eighteenth century, 1108 01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:07,800 Speaker 1: on the Aisle of Harry's in Scotland, melucca beans, especially 1109 01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:11,200 Speaker 1: white meluca beans, were worn around the necks of children 1110 01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,040 Speaker 1: as a ward against the evil eye and also such 1111 01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,560 Speaker 1: sort of witchcraft in general, and if evil magic came 1112 01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,840 Speaker 1: shooting in at the child, the bean would turn black. Whoa, 1113 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,520 Speaker 1: which also reminds me of some of the you know, 1114 01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,960 Speaker 1: we've talked about poison detection, uh in various cultures. You know, 1115 01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,640 Speaker 1: it sounds like trying to achieve the same thing but 1116 01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:35,160 Speaker 1: with a bean, like your little radiation detector badge. Except 1117 01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:39,040 Speaker 1: as for witchcraft, yeah, uh, Now, there are other European 1118 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,120 Speaker 1: beliefs of protective beans. The Cilian traditions held that beans 1119 01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,800 Speaker 1: had protective qualities for childbirth. So a woman in or 1120 01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,760 Speaker 1: approaching labor could eat nine black beans and that would 1121 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,760 Speaker 1: serve as a protective Uh not really, an emulated would 1122 01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,880 Speaker 1: be a protective act. I guess there's also a tradition 1123 01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,280 Speaker 1: of stacking nine black beans and placing them on a 1124 01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,680 Speaker 1: table near a newborn child protect to protect it from 1125 01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,640 Speaker 1: evil spirits. Wait, how do you stack black beans? Um? 1126 01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,840 Speaker 1: I think it would be like a little pyramid of 1127 01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,280 Speaker 1: black beans, kind of like a structure of the black beans. Now, 1128 01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:16,720 Speaker 1: in Morocco, an ambulance of of seven black beans could 1129 01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:20,080 Speaker 1: be used to protect sheep and goats from smallpox, and 1130 01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,440 Speaker 1: seven black beans could also be used by Moroccan scholars 1131 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,960 Speaker 1: or scribes rather in order to become invisible, So, you know, 1132 01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:32,240 Speaker 1: using black beans and some sort of essentially sorcery. Now, 1133 01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,160 Speaker 1: that's the kind of spell that I would imagine is 1134 01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:38,160 Speaker 1: probably more likely cataloged by somebody who attributes the the 1135 01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,520 Speaker 1: used to others rather than somebody who did it themselves, 1136 01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,440 Speaker 1: because you could probably quite quickly find out if you 1137 01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,560 Speaker 1: were actually trying this that you cannot become invisible by 1138 01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:52,640 Speaker 1: using black beans. They're also traditions in Morocco of five 1139 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:56,160 Speaker 1: black beans being used in protective amulets. So these might 1140 01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,040 Speaker 1: be for instance, sewn into fabrics, so you could have 1141 01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,480 Speaker 1: have the the five black beans in this piece of fabric, 1142 01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,000 Speaker 1: then then you then wear as an amulet. And he 1143 01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,160 Speaker 1: He also makes mention in the Book of European Traditions 1144 01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,880 Speaker 1: concerning St. John's Eve, this is the um the the 1145 01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,560 Speaker 1: eve of celebration before the feast day of Saint John 1146 01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:20,040 Speaker 1: the Baptist, but the celebration itself existed before the coming 1147 01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:24,840 Speaker 1: of Christianity. Um and uh it's tied. Simmons explains to 1148 01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:28,200 Speaker 1: summer solstice anxieties and the belief that this is a 1149 01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:31,280 Speaker 1: time when demons and evil spirits will rise up and 1150 01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,120 Speaker 1: must be driven back. And if this sounds a lot 1151 01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,720 Speaker 1: like Nido and Bald Mountain from Disney's Fantasia, will you 1152 01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:41,760 Speaker 1: are correct because the original title of of Masursky's music 1153 01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:46,120 Speaker 1: was St. John's Night on the Bear Mountain. Yeah, that 1154 01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,120 Speaker 1: was new to me as well. But at any rate, 1155 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a time during which you have these various 1156 01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:56,600 Speaker 1: traditions involving fire, but also medicinal plants, uh, such as 1157 01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,280 Speaker 1: Saint John's wart, and unfortunately it also entailed more than 1158 01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:04,080 Speaker 1: a little burning of black cats. But given the fava 1159 01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,400 Speaker 1: beans association with the underworld and spirits, it may have 1160 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:11,400 Speaker 1: been connected as well. In Tuscany, St John's fire was 1161 01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,560 Speaker 1: lighted in a field of beans to make them ripe 1162 01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:17,440 Speaker 1: and faster, it's said, and in Sicily you ate your 1163 01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,959 Speaker 1: fava beans with a word of thanks to St. John. 1164 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,000 Speaker 1: And there are other other religious and traditions of three 1165 01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:27,760 Speaker 1: beans that were ritually consumed, representing wealth, competence, and poverty, 1166 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,920 Speaker 1: depending on the state of the pealing. Oh yeah, well 1167 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:32,800 Speaker 1: this ties into another thing. I guess we sort of 1168 01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,840 Speaker 1: got into this when I was mentioning uh Diogenes the 1169 01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:40,080 Speaker 1: Cynic philosopher. But the in there there is also a 1170 01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:45,480 Speaker 1: tradition of intentionally eating beans to signal asceticism, like the 1171 01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,960 Speaker 1: ascetic life, you know, to say that I reject the 1172 01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,680 Speaker 1: pleasures of this world and I'm going to be a 1173 01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:54,440 Speaker 1: person of the simple virtues of the spirit, meaning that 1174 01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, I I'm not going to be eating butter 1175 01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,920 Speaker 1: and bacon every day. Instead, I'm going to be having beans, 1176 01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,200 Speaker 1: which makes me think, of course, about the associations with 1177 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,000 Speaker 1: John the Baptist. Right, John the Baptist lived in the wilderness, 1178 01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,320 Speaker 1: and he, you know, he wore rough clothes and he 1179 01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,800 Speaker 1: ate honey and locusts, which might be the equivalent of 1180 01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,760 Speaker 1: a medieval European monks saying, Okay, I mean, I mean 1181 01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,920 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna eat beans. I'm gonna be a you know, 1182 01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:17,560 Speaker 1: a person. I'm going to be a man of the 1183 01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,600 Speaker 1: wild and just commune with God. Now I have one 1184 01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,600 Speaker 1: more to mention here, and this one brings us back 1185 01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:26,720 Speaker 1: to German celebrations of Twelfth Night. And this was the 1186 01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,800 Speaker 1: idea that Germans and uh and and other Northern Europeans 1187 01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:34,920 Speaker 1: once would select a king of the Bean and sometimes 1188 01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,760 Speaker 1: a queen of the Being as well. Uh and they 1189 01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:42,800 Speaker 1: would do this by by baking a cake which contained 1190 01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,600 Speaker 1: a single bean um uh. This would be like a 1191 01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:50,360 Speaker 1: single black bean perhaps, And basically it would be like, 1192 01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,840 Speaker 1: everybody gets a piece of cake, and if yours has 1193 01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,959 Speaker 1: the bean in it, then congratulations, you are the being king. 1194 01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:57,800 Speaker 1: Now it was it good to be the bean king 1195 01:07:57,920 --> 01:07:59,640 Speaker 1: or bad to be the being king? Because there are 1196 01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,040 Speaker 1: a lot tradition, there's something you get a special piece 1197 01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,400 Speaker 1: of cake and that means you're kind of like scorned. Yeah, well, 1198 01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,520 Speaker 1: this one doesn't seem particularly wicker manny, if that's what 1199 01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:12,560 Speaker 1: you're asking. Um, this is this is what this is 1200 01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,600 Speaker 1: what he writes. Um. Of particular interest to us is 1201 01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:17,840 Speaker 1: the report that the first act of a being king, 1202 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,160 Speaker 1: after he had been enthroned and congratulated, involved his being 1203 01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,880 Speaker 1: lifted three times to the ceiling of the house, where 1204 01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,760 Speaker 1: he drew white crosses of chalk on the beams and 1205 01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,880 Speaker 1: rafters to protect against evil spirits, devils, and witchcraft for 1206 01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:33,920 Speaker 1: the coming year. Also prominent in some places have been 1207 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,240 Speaker 1: concerns about weather and crop fertility and yield, and the 1208 01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:41,160 Speaker 1: cake itself serving in divining good or bad things that 1209 01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:45,280 Speaker 1: might affect people in the ensuing year. So, I mean, 1210 01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:49,160 Speaker 1: I don't know what what else it necessarily entailed, but 1211 01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:51,840 Speaker 1: that first major act of being king of the bean 1212 01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:54,200 Speaker 1: doesn't sound too bad. No, no, no, it's a no. 1213 01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:55,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like they're about to throw him into 1214 01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:00,240 Speaker 1: the fire or anything. No. All right, Well, hope, really 1215 01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:05,160 Speaker 1: we have introduced a new, spooky, supernatural world of of 1216 01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:09,240 Speaker 1: bean fields to everyone out there. Uh and and just 1217 01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,200 Speaker 1: made you think a little bit more about your beans, 1218 01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,400 Speaker 1: and we would love to hear from you what are 1219 01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:17,040 Speaker 1: your favorite beans? Uh do you are you privy to 1220 01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:22,240 Speaker 1: any uh superstitions or customs or rituals involving beans that 1221 01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:25,160 Speaker 1: we didn't mention here, because definitely right in and tell 1222 01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,840 Speaker 1: us about them. Also, um, are are do you own 1223 01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,400 Speaker 1: the company Rancho Gordo and want to send Joe and 1224 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:35,760 Speaker 1: I free beans because we mentioned your company? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1225 01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,000 Speaker 1: I go for it. We would. We'd love to love 1226 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,719 Speaker 1: to be a part of that. But uh yeah, in general, 1227 01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,000 Speaker 1: we just love to hear from everybody out there, um 1228 01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:50,439 Speaker 1: about about beans. Beans, the the magical fruit, the mystical fruit, 1229 01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:54,280 Speaker 1: the supernatural fruit, but also not a fruit, not technically. 1230 01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:56,800 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you would like to hear other 1231 01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:58,439 Speaker 1: episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, you know where 1232 01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:00,160 Speaker 1: to find them. You can find them in this Tough 1233 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,720 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind podcast feed and you'll you'll find 1234 01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,040 Speaker 1: out wherever you get your podcast these days, I don't know, 1235 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:08,040 Speaker 1: there's so many places to get podcasts, but we should 1236 01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,519 Speaker 1: be wherever that is that you're going. And if you 1237 01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,240 Speaker 1: can rate and review the show at that place, if 1238 01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,320 Speaker 1: they let you do that, uh, well then do that. 1239 01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:19,240 Speaker 1: That helps us out. That's uh that uh, that's supposedly good, 1240 01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,320 Speaker 1: or so they tell them. Um, yeah, yeah, give us 1241 01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:27,600 Speaker 1: five or five beans. Five out of five beans, but 1242 01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:31,000 Speaker 1: only the good beans, not the not the witchcraft beans, 1243 01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,080 Speaker 1: just the the demon defeating beans. So I don't know, 1244 01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,320 Speaker 1: sort them out, figure out which one's which. Five out 1245 01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:40,320 Speaker 1: of five haunted bleeding beans for sexual potency. Here's thanks, 1246 01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,599 Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. 1247 01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,479 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 1248 01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:48,400 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 1249 01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,360 Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hi, 1250 01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:53,240 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 1251 01:10:53,280 --> 01:11:03,160 Speaker 1: Your Mind dot car. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is 1252 01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,880 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my 1253 01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,840 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1254 01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:19,479 Speaker 1: or wherever you listening to your favorite shows.