WEBVTT - The Complex and Thin Line Between Sound and Noise - Lab 104 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:00.720 TC. 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.920 You've been around, You've seen me live many places. Oh yes, 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:07.760 I move a lot, but nothing gets me up out 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:12.080 of there quicker than a noisy neighbor. I feel like 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.320 I'm so sensitive to it. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.960 And you know, as soon as you tell me, you're like, 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.760 I can hear my neighbors. I'm like, oh, give her 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.599 three months, she's gonna be gone. She just needs to 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.320 find a place. She's gonna be out of there. My friend, 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.080 uh uh, those ears are sensitive. She don't want to 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.000 hear none of it. She's not gonna be like, oh, 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:33.680 you shouldn't be doing nothing. But she's like, if I 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.919 can find quiet her neighbor, I will opt for that. 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.400 I'm gonna opt for it. I know I have a 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.000 little sensitivity, but I also know I'm not alone. There's 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.480 plenty of memes, but people are like the moon walking upstairs, 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.040 or they're a town stomping or like next door. I'm like, 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.280 they have to be playing soccer, they must be preparing 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:54.080 for the World Cup. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:55.000 What is it? 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:55.920 What's going on? 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.320 Oh my gosh, I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah And this 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:09.920 is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.040 that mixes hardcore science with pop culture and a healthy 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:20.160 dose of friendship. All right, we know I'm not alone 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:23.600 when it comes to the noise and just sound in general. 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:23.960 M h. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.840 You know, and I think that we also know that 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:32.160 not all noises created equal. There's some noise that you 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.960 can live with where it's like, Okay, my washing machine 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.160 is loud, but it's fine. But then there are other 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.760 noises where it's like, uh uh, I can't build this 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.119 at all, Like nails on a chalkboard. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.120 My equivalent of nails on a chalkboard is people playing 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.680 YouTube videos and stuff on speakerphone, Like why does it 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.120 sound so different than if it were coming from real speakers. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.400 I'm just like, why do you think all of us 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:59.920 want to hear what you're doing? Just like people have 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.440 physical space bubbles, I feel like we should also be 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.559 considering people's sound bubbles. Yes, I'll be trying to be quiet, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.880 like I'm like, I don't want to be intruding on 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:11.320 people's ears. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:12.079 I don't know. 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.799 Yes, I was also raised with parents that said shush. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:17.959 It feels like nobody ever told some of y'all to 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:18.680 shush listen. 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:20.560 We used to be a country. We used to shush 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.840 people all the time. Now everybody's just running rampant. So 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:27.920 considering all of that, what do we want to know? 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.400 I want to know what makes a sound a noise? 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:32.120 Do you know what I mean? 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.400 Yeah, Like, it's not just sound anymore exactly, it's a 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.480 nuisance exactly. And it feels like there's a thin line 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.960 between what makes the difference between the two. So I 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.080 want to know where that line is. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.880 I want to know more about not just how we 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.519 categorize the sounds, but like the intensity of it, So 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.960 more about volume, you know. I know Apple had that 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.000 thing on the phone that's like, yeah, you could set 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:57.840 up and it'll tell you or your Apple Watch it 0:02:57.880 --> 0:02:59.320 will be like loud noise. I used to do it 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.320 in the shower, and so I'm like, when can a sound? 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:03.640 And I was like, is that just the sound of 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.880 the water that is that dangerous for me? 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.359 And mine would do it every time I laughed, which 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.040 I felt like was offensive or acuri. 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:12.680 I don't know, you could choose. 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:16.359 But what decibels do we need to be looking out 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:17.920 for or is it just decibels? 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:19.480 Is decibels what. 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:20.239 We should be checking? 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.480 You know? I feel like prolonged exposure to noise can 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:28.760 drive someone nuts like my friend, but is it deeper 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:33.600 than that, Like can a long exposure to noise have 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:35.119 other effects on us? 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:37.080 Let's jump into the dissection. 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.640 Okay, so today we're talking to someone who has brought 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.040 the conversation about noise front and center, and they've done 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.840 that in a way that challenges some long held assumptions. 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.040 We're joined by Chris Burdick, author of Clamor How the 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.280 Noise took Over the World and How We Can Take 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:56.840 It Back. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.800 And this book really had a side eye everything. They're 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.560 doing construction two houses down for me, and we want 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.000 to figure out how our brains brace for sound. It's 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:12.680 part science, part history, and all real life implications. 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:14.200 Chris, Welcome to the lab. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.160 Thank you guys so much for having me. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:17.880 All Right, I'm excited to talk to you. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:23.080 Okay, because you called noise a major public health threat, 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.960 and that's a strong claim, but I am in agreement 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.240 because I feel like I hear. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.719 Noise that other people don't very sensitive and I'm like, 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:32.320 what is that? 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:33.000 What did you hear that? 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:33.599 Low hum? 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.760 And I think before we even get into the effects 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:38.560 of it, I want to say define for our audience 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.600 what counts as noise because it's not just as you 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.279 say in your book, is more than unwanted sound. Help 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.680 us understand what noise is. 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:48.760 It's very tricky to define it. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.520 And one new definition that has come up that I 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.920 kind of like was put out by the American Public 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.400 Health Association in twenty twenty one, and they said noise 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.800 should be defined and as unwanted and or harmful sound. 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.479 And so they were saying what has been known but 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.520 has been overlooked, is that whether or not you love 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.320 the sound that you're listening to at ninety five decibels 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.000 in your AirPods, it's going to cause damage to your 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.480 inner ear. You know, you have interruptions of sleep that 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.640 you are not aware of from noise from roads and 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.599 airplanes and et cetera. And that does not require you 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.719 to not want the sound. It just happens. So there's 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.400 all sorts of ways that noise can affect us. It 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.400 is a subjective thing, but there are many many ways 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.159 that go beyond the sort of simplified way that we've 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:42.280 traditionally defined it. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.440 So you mentioned ninety five decibels, and I want to 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:49.159 give some context for folks. So around ten decibels is 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.240 the level of like normal breathing. We go up from 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.360 their thirty decibels. That's a whisper, and both of those 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.680 are designated as like safe noise levels. On the other 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.840 end of that range is like a police siren and 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.000 that's around eighty decibels, and that is designated as loud. 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.160 Now ninety to one hundred and ten, that's considered very 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.720 loud and dangerous if you were exposed to it for 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:14.479 longer than thirty minutes. And so that's stuff like power tools, blenders, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:16.560 anybody has a ninja creamy, I know you know what 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.400 I'm talking about. And like nightclubs, so you really only 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.400 need to be in the club for thirty minutes, get 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.080 you a couple dances, and get out there. 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:25.400 It was free before midnight. 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.640 Just go there thirty minutes, get out out, and then 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.080 one to one hundred and forty decibels that's dangerous noise 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:37.960 levels and that's painful. So that's concerts, fireworks, gunshots, jackhammers, ambulances. 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.000 This tracks for me because the last time I was 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.800 at a concert, I was like, oh, I need ear plugs, 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:45.960 I needed things. I need to open the ear things 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:47.480 they put on the babies for safety. 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:53.600 So also in Clamor, you challenge the classic definition and 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.359 you make the case that it's not always about volume, 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.640 it's about contacts and perception. And so just like the 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.680 cure saying, where I will be in her house and 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:03.760 she'd be like, do you hear that? 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:08.400 It's driving me nuts? And I'm like, is it me talking? 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.000 And she'd be like, no, my neighbors. Can't you hear them? 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.920 It sounds like they're they're moving something slim. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.679 And cabinets, we're back is something. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.480 I don't hear a thing, and so I don't feel 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:27.320 like I notice those types of frequencies. Can you break 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.080 down how quieter sounds can still cause harm or distraction? 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.840 And why do we underestimate noise as a population. 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.760 Our hearing is a defensive sensory system first and foremost. 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.680 If you think about when we go to sleep, we 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.280 shut down for the night, our eyes close, but your 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.200 ears stay awake. Your ears are still attuned. And then 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:54.320 what they're looking for are signals. They're looking for anything 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.880 that is a potential danger to you, and we have 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.760 no idea what the dangers might be, so we are 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.600 constantly kind of what the sleep research is called having 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.840 these awakenings, so periods of time when our resting heart 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:12.080 rate raises up, our blood pressure goes back up to normal. 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.120 These happen about twenty to twenty five times a night 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:20.000 in a normal night's sleep. The problem happens when sound 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:24.000 that the research says starts around forty five decibels. When 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.160 that kind of sound is in your bedroom, it can 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.880 start to increase the number of awakenings that you have. 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.880 This can lead to a chronic triggering of a stress 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.959 reaction has all of the same cascading impacts that kind 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.120 of a chronic stress has and lead to those sorts 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:45.680 of things. So that's one way when you're awake, the 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.600 same things happen with Say you're in an office space 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.480 and you're trying to get your work done and your 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:55.839 coworkers are chattering on their cell phones with their friends 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.360 about their weekends or something like that. This is something 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.199 that's not pticularly loud, but because you can understand them 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.280 and your brain is looking for those signals, and so 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.800 your focus has diverted, your ability to do your work 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:14.040 is stymied, and this causes again stress. People who have 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.920 done the lab work on this show how when people 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.520 are trying to do these cognitive tasks and they're being 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.880 interrupted by noise, then their cortisol levels go up and 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:24.439 their stress reactions go up. 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.440 That means my cortisol is through the roof. 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:26.840 Yes. 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.760 Now, when you gave that example, Chris, of being in 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.720 office and hearing other people chatter, I feel that way 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:37.200 about when people are playing like their phones or watching 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.400 videos on speaker and you can hear it because it's 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.280 like a high pitch. Do you know what I'm saying? 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.600 I read rather if it was like musaic or something 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:49.640 that I can't pick up every now and then I 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:51.000 hear the words and I'm like, what is it? 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:51.600 I hate it? 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.720 Well, that's the thing I wrote about restaurant noise. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.959 So there's a there's one issue there where in the 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.400 nineteen nineties they that they wanted to get rid of 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.200 all the upholstery and all the carpets and got this 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:08.920 new modern industrial look with all kinds of hard surfaces everywhere, 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.360 which allowed every sound to reverberate and endlessly bounce. And 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.680 then you brought the kitchen in from where it was 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:17.400 and put it in the middle of everybody, and then 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:22.040 you had cranking up the music so this creates a 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:26.360 cacophony that people have a real hard time having conversations in. 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:28.760 But on the flip side, have you ever eaten in 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:33.280 a restaurant that's too quiet where you hear everybody's slurping 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.160 their soup next to you and you can hear everybody's 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.120 you know, everyone has to like whisper and they're kind 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:42.000 of afraid to talk. It's excruciating. And so there's a 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.880 level at which having sound as a background, when you 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:50.720 can't distinguish and it's not intelligible, is a benefit to 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.959 your ability to focus and have conversations or do your work. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.880 Now, I think we're talking about sound and noise as 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.720 a nuisance, but in your book you talk about noise 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:07.319 being weaponized, and I'm curious about, like, what's one of 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.199 the wildest examples you came across while researching this. 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.640 So well, the wildest one was a French I think 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.840 it might have been Russian originally, that he was living 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.200 in Marseille and he was a rogue scientist at this 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.280 lab where he was trying to use infrasound, which is 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.160 sound that's below our ability to hear. It's really low frequency, 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.960 and he was trying to use that to essentially kill people. 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:37.040 I mean, oh, what like. 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.880 The ear did kind of Okay, So let's talk about 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:45.600 frequency before we get into this death sound. So sound 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.640 is all about vibrations, and they're invisible waves that travel 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:54.240 through the air, water, and solids. And frequency is how 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.640 many of those vibrations happen in a given amount of time, 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.800 and that's measured and hurts. And the faster the vibrations, 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.440 the higher the frequency. And that's when we hear a 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.360 high pitch sound like a whistle. And on the other 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.040 side of that, when vibrations are slower, like the deep 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.200 banging of a drum, we hear a lower pitch. So, 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.360 in essence, frequency and pitch are two sides of the 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.520 same coin. Fast vibrations create a high pitch and slow 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:27.240 vibrations create low pitch. Okay, So Chris, let's continue with 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.600 the death sound machine that they were trying to make. 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:34.560 He created this giant whistle essentially that blasted out in 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.120 for sound at t one hundred and sixty decibels or 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.280 something like that, so very intense but very low frequency. 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:47.200 The problem was he just he didn't kill anybody. The 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.160 body is too compost the problem. 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:53.839 Okay, this is getting a little dark. 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.200 The problem for his theory. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:58.960 Okay, with you, I'm with you. 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.720 And with such a low frequency, that sound wave is 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.480 like really big, you know, and it would be really 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.199 hard to actually hit a person with a sound wave 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.480 that is that big. It's like trying to hit a 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.120 fly with a jump rope, you know, Like if you're 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.760 like flinging that jump rope up and down to create waves, 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.600 like the chances of you hitting the fly is yeah, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:27.760 slim to none. 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.600 So the idea being, if you're going to try to 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.280 harness that much power to hurt somebody, there's a lot 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.720 easier ways than trying to aim some kind of infrasound 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:42.959 gun at them. In general, the sound weapons that are 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.520 actually working and are out there are based on loudness. 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.839 They're based on just blowing your ears out, which has 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:56.679 some serious long term irreversible damage. These things were developed 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.920 by the Navy. They're called the l RAD, which is 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:03.280 the long Range Acoustic Device, and they have subsequently been 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:08.640 used by law enforcement, and that's been very controversial because, 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.319 like I said, when you get hit by a sound 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.480 that loud and it damages your inner ear, you don't 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.560 get that back. So it's as a crowd control measure. 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.720 It's controversial depending on how it's used. How powerful. 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.240 Yeah, Oh my goodness, I don't think I knew that. 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.640 I did not know that that's still in use today. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:32.080 Or protests in New York of it was a police 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.440 brutality case that was that people were protesting and they 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.720 came out with this l rad device and they blasted 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.280 at people. They were holding it right at them. There 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.680 was a lawsuit where the defense was saying that the 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.360 police department was saying sound noise is not a use 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.240 of force, but of course it is. 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:51.720 It is. 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.480 It is okay, So the ruling came down that they 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.640 settled it. Basically, they're allowed to use this advice now 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.440 to sort of broadcast that please disperse commands, but they're 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.720 not allowed to use what's called the deterrent tone, which 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.880 is the super high intensity pain causing decibel tone. That's 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.480 where things stand. They're still in the arsenal right. 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:35.040 Wow, I think this is a great transition into the biology. 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.200 You just talked about the extreme effects of really really 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.960 loud sound, But how does chronic noise affect our bodies 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.560 like sleep, heart, and stress? 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.000 The stress response in an acute way is a potential 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.400 benefit to us. This is something that when you have 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.080 a response, you have this inflammatory response where you know, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:00.560 white blood cells and other disease fighting cells come rushing out. 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.240 When you have this stress response, just in case you 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.440 know you're about to get bit by a sabertooth tiger 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.160 or something like that, you need to have that wound 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:15.880 healing quickly. But like any stress response, when it becomes chronic, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.080 when you have so much inflammation coming all the time, 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:24.840 your arteries get clogged, you have a dysregulation in terms 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:28.280 of hormones. Your stress hormones are all out of whack. Basically, 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.720 stress in a chronic way, no matter what the source, 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.400 is a toxic thing. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:34.560 There was a. 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:39.840 Study out of mass General Hospital that was doing pet scans, 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:43.480 full body pet scans of people who had cancer and 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.560 so they were coming back periodically to have to be 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.560 checked to see, you know, if they still had you know, 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.320 we're still in remission. And so they did these pet scans, 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.320 and so these cardiologists looked at the data of seven 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.560 or ten years of these pet scans, and they looked 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.920 at where these folks lived, and they decided they sort 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:08.080 of categorized them as being in they were stressed exposed 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.679 or not stress exposed. If they lived in an area 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:15.080 that was high noise exposure based on the modeling of 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.680 nearby roads or overflights and transportation noise, they were stress exposed. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.359 It's part of the kind of stress soup. And I 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.280 often think about a lot of the non auditory noise 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.560 that we have to deal with now that's also stressing 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.439 us out. All of the overstuffed email in boxes, and 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.760 we can't get away from the pings and dings of 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.520 our phones because people are constantly trying to reach us, 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.479 and then we are scrolling through our social media and 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.359 that's stressing people out. I think it's of a piece 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.960 that is weighing on our cognition and on our focus 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.399 and on our I don't know, peace of mind, for 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.720 lack of a better term. 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.720 We've talked about this a little bit. T T and 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.080 I did this kind of web campaign that was about 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.920 looking up from your phone. Just because we get tied 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:11.000 in this loop of scrolling and seeing notifications. I have 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.280 moved to like putting my phone and focus mode where 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.040 I don't even see the badges that show up on 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.560 the apps. I don't even want to see them anymore, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.000 you know, because I think those kind of things just 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.199 build up a little bit of stress and every now then, 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.359 like especially when you start your morning with that kind 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.720 of activity, it sets the tone for the entire day. 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.280 And you know, I was going to ask you to 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:36.880 help me understand how anticipating noise, you know, could affect us. 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:41.080 But once you define noise as unwanted signal, then it 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:45.080 became very clear. Because I was thinking, I can anticipate, Oh, 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.080 there's gonna be so many emails, or oh I I 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.240 have this project, have so much stuff to do, they're 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.200 gonna message me. Yes, you ever wake up a few 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:53.119 minutes before. 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:59.199 Or when somebody's ring tone is your alarm sound the 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.080 amount of stressed or even like, oh you have a 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.800 meeting coming in fifteen minutes, that sound, Oh my gosh. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.400 It stresses me out every. 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.640 Time I put my phone on silent, and I get 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.119 in trouble for it because I miss all the calls 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:15.879 from my wife and my kids are like trying to 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:16.199 get me. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:19.440 But it's worth it. 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.399 You're not stressed out. They are because they can't get 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:23.040 in touch me. 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:23.720 That's right. 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.760 My court is all is low. 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.199 I love that that's so funny. 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.640 I think we're talking about silencing our devices, getting rid 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.280 of some of the noise. This also makes me think 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.560 about this concept. There's this book about like your address 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.800 or zip code, and it talks about how almost it's 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.840 almost like destiny of sorts, where you live in your 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.600 exposure to yes, chemical and ear pollutants, but sound as well, 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.040 like you're talking about. And I think it makes me 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.280 think about is silence always the goal or are there 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.240 other types of sounds that are good for us? Because 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.320 we had a listener Linda who sent me a message 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.119 asked about sound baths and healing and so can sound 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:09.760 be restorative in a way? 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.600 Yes, And I'm glad you asked that because another thing 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:17.119 that when I started writing this book, when the pandemic 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.879 really came down on us, I had to cancel all 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.800 the reporting I had planned, and everything had to be 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.720 stopped for a while. But beyond that, I was kind 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.919 of struck by all of a sudden, the cities were 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.800 emptying out, and businesses were shutting down, and people weren't 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.760 going to school and nobody was getting together. And when 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.800 people measured this different cities, they found a four to 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:42.800 six decibel drop during the height of the COVID, and 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.679 people had a lot of I had mixed feelings about it, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:48.400 of course, it was sort of like, yeah, I love 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:49.320 hearing the birds. 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:50.160 That's great. 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.120 I do find some solace in that amidst all this insanity. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:21:00.560 But you can't escape the context that this quiet world 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:05.399 stems from people losing their livelihoods, people losing their lives, people, 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.199 you know, over trauma, a huge amount of trauma. And 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.720 so I started thinking about what do we really want 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.280 when we're fighting noise? What is the kind of goal here? 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.560 Is it just quiet? Because we had quiet? And I 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.680 don't know if that's really what we wanted. There are 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.160 so many ways that sound can be our ally, and 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.440 when we think about it, especially when we think about 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:37.160 it proactively, and we're not just what I call whack 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:41.880 a molling decibels. Quiet is not the only worthwhile sonic goal, 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:43.639 and silence certainly is not. 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.479 Are there long term of differences and people who grow 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.800 up around a lot of noise versus people who don't. 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.160 But then when I think of that question, I think 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:56.080