1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:00,720 Speaker 1: TC. 2 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 2: You've been around, You've seen me live many places. Oh yes, 3 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 2: I move a lot, but nothing gets me up out 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 2: of there quicker than a noisy neighbor. I feel like 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 2: I'm so sensitive to it. 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 3: And you know, as soon as you tell me, you're like, 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 3: I can hear my neighbors. I'm like, oh, give her 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 3: three months, she's gonna be gone. She just needs to 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 3: find a place. She's gonna be out of there. My friend, 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 3: uh uh, those ears are sensitive. She don't want to 11 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 3: hear none of it. She's not gonna be like, oh, 12 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 3: you shouldn't be doing nothing. But she's like, if I 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 3: can find quiet her neighbor, I will opt for that. 14 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: I'm gonna opt for it. I know I have a 15 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: little sensitivity, but I also know I'm not alone. There's 16 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 2: plenty of memes, but people are like the moon walking upstairs, 17 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: or they're a town stomping or like next door. I'm like, 18 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: they have to be playing soccer, they must be preparing 19 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: for the World Cup. 20 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 4: What is it? 21 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 5: What's going on? 22 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah And this 23 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 3: is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast 24 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 3: that mixes hardcore science with pop culture and a healthy 25 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 3: dose of friendship. All right, we know I'm not alone 26 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 3: when it comes to the noise and just sound in general. 27 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: M h. 28 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: You know, and I think that we also know that 29 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 3: not all noises created equal. There's some noise that you 30 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 3: can live with where it's like, Okay, my washing machine 31 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 3: is loud, but it's fine. But then there are other 32 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 3: noises where it's like, uh uh, I can't build this 33 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 3: at all, Like nails on a chalkboard. 34 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: My equivalent of nails on a chalkboard is people playing 35 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: YouTube videos and stuff on speakerphone, Like why does it 36 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 2: sound so different than if it were coming from real speakers. 37 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 3: I'm just like, why do you think all of us 38 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 3: want to hear what you're doing? Just like people have 39 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 3: physical space bubbles, I feel like we should also be 40 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 3: considering people's sound bubbles. Yes, I'll be trying to be quiet, 41 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 3: like I'm like, I don't want to be intruding on 42 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: people's ears. 43 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 4: I don't know. 44 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 2: Yes, I was also raised with parents that said shush. 45 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,959 Speaker 2: It feels like nobody ever told some of y'all to 46 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: shush listen. 47 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 3: We used to be a country. We used to shush 48 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 3: people all the time. Now everybody's just running rampant. So 49 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 3: considering all of that, what do we want to know? 50 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 3: I want to know what makes a sound a noise? 51 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? 52 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, it's not just sound anymore exactly, it's a 53 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 3: nuisance exactly. And it feels like there's a thin line 54 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 3: between what makes the difference between the two. So I 55 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 3: want to know where that line is. 56 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: I want to know more about not just how we 57 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 2: categorize the sounds, but like the intensity of it, So 58 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: more about volume, you know. I know Apple had that 59 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: thing on the phone that's like, yeah, you could set 60 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: up and it'll tell you or your Apple Watch it 61 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: will be like loud noise. I used to do it 62 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: in the shower, and so I'm like, when can a sound? 63 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 2: And I was like, is that just the sound of 64 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: the water that is that dangerous for me? 65 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 3: And mine would do it every time I laughed, which 66 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 3: I felt like was offensive or acuri. 67 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 5: I don't know, you could choose. 68 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 2: But what decibels do we need to be looking out 69 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 2: for or is it just decibels? 70 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 5: Is decibels what. 71 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 4: We should be checking? 72 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 3: You know? I feel like prolonged exposure to noise can 73 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: drive someone nuts like my friend, but is it deeper 74 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: than that, Like can a long exposure to noise have 75 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 3: other effects on us? 76 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 5: Let's jump into the dissection. 77 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: Okay, so today we're talking to someone who has brought 78 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: the conversation about noise front and center, and they've done 79 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: that in a way that challenges some long held assumptions. 80 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: We're joined by Chris Burdick, author of Clamor How the 81 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: Noise took Over the World and How We Can Take 82 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: It Back. 83 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: And this book really had a side eye everything. They're 84 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 3: doing construction two houses down for me, and we want 85 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 3: to figure out how our brains brace for sound. It's 86 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 3: part science, part history, and all real life implications. 87 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 4: Chris, Welcome to the lab. 88 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for having me. 89 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 5: All Right, I'm excited to talk to you. 90 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: Okay, because you called noise a major public health threat, 91 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: and that's a strong claim, but I am in agreement 92 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: because I feel like I hear. 93 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 4: Noise that other people don't very sensitive and I'm like, 94 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 4: what is that? 95 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 5: What did you hear that? 96 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 4: Low hum? 97 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: And I think before we even get into the effects 98 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: of it, I want to say define for our audience 99 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: what counts as noise because it's not just as you 100 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: say in your book, is more than unwanted sound. Help 101 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: us understand what noise is. 102 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: It's very tricky to define it. 103 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 6: And one new definition that has come up that I 104 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 6: kind of like was put out by the American Public 105 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 6: Health Association in twenty twenty one, and they said noise 106 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 6: should be defined and as unwanted and or harmful sound. 107 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 6: And so they were saying what has been known but 108 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 6: has been overlooked, is that whether or not you love 109 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 6: the sound that you're listening to at ninety five decibels 110 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 6: in your AirPods, it's going to cause damage to your 111 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 6: inner ear. You know, you have interruptions of sleep that 112 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 6: you are not aware of from noise from roads and 113 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 6: airplanes and et cetera. And that does not require you 114 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 6: to not want the sound. It just happens. So there's 115 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 6: all sorts of ways that noise can affect us. It 116 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 6: is a subjective thing, but there are many many ways 117 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 6: that go beyond the sort of simplified way that we've 118 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 6: traditionally defined it. 119 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: So you mentioned ninety five decibels, and I want to 120 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: give some context for folks. So around ten decibels is 121 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: the level of like normal breathing. We go up from 122 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: their thirty decibels. That's a whisper, and both of those 123 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: are designated as like safe noise levels. On the other 124 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 2: end of that range is like a police siren and 125 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: that's around eighty decibels, and that is designated as loud. 126 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 2: Now ninety to one hundred and ten, that's considered very 127 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 2: loud and dangerous if you were exposed to it for 128 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 2: longer than thirty minutes. And so that's stuff like power tools, blenders, 129 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: anybody has a ninja creamy, I know you know what 130 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: I'm talking about. And like nightclubs, so you really only 131 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: need to be in the club for thirty minutes, get 132 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: you a couple dances, and get out there. 133 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: It was free before midnight. 134 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: Just go there thirty minutes, get out out, and then 135 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: one to one hundred and forty decibels that's dangerous noise 136 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: levels and that's painful. So that's concerts, fireworks, gunshots, jackhammers, ambulances. 137 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: This tracks for me because the last time I was 138 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: at a concert, I was like, oh, I need ear plugs, 139 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: I needed things. I need to open the ear things 140 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: they put on the babies for safety. 141 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 3: So also in Clamor, you challenge the classic definition and 142 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 3: you make the case that it's not always about volume, 143 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 3: it's about contacts and perception. And so just like the 144 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 3: cure saying, where I will be in her house and 145 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: she'd be like, do you hear that? 146 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 4: It's driving me nuts? And I'm like, is it me talking? 147 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: And she'd be like, no, my neighbors. Can't you hear them? 148 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 3: It sounds like they're they're moving something slim. 149 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 5: And cabinets, we're back is something. 150 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: I don't hear a thing, and so I don't feel 151 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: like I notice those types of frequencies. Can you break 152 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: down how quieter sounds can still cause harm or distraction? 153 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: And why do we underestimate noise as a population. 154 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 6: Our hearing is a defensive sensory system first and foremost. 155 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 6: If you think about when we go to sleep, we 156 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 6: shut down for the night, our eyes close, but your 157 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 6: ears stay awake. Your ears are still attuned. And then 158 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 6: what they're looking for are signals. They're looking for anything 159 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 6: that is a potential danger to you, and we have 160 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 6: no idea what the dangers might be, so we are 161 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 6: constantly kind of what the sleep research is called having 162 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 6: these awakenings, so periods of time when our resting heart 163 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 6: rate raises up, our blood pressure goes back up to normal. 164 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 6: These happen about twenty to twenty five times a night 165 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 6: in a normal night's sleep. The problem happens when sound 166 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 6: that the research says starts around forty five decibels. When 167 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 6: that kind of sound is in your bedroom, it can 168 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 6: start to increase the number of awakenings that you have. 169 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 6: This can lead to a chronic triggering of a stress 170 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 6: reaction has all of the same cascading impacts that kind 171 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 6: of a chronic stress has and lead to those sorts 172 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 6: of things. So that's one way when you're awake, the 173 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 6: same things happen with Say you're in an office space 174 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 6: and you're trying to get your work done and your 175 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 6: coworkers are chattering on their cell phones with their friends 176 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 6: about their weekends or something like that. This is something 177 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 6: that's not pticularly loud, but because you can understand them 178 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 6: and your brain is looking for those signals, and so 179 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 6: your focus has diverted, your ability to do your work 180 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 6: is stymied, and this causes again stress. People who have 181 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 6: done the lab work on this show how when people 182 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 6: are trying to do these cognitive tasks and they're being 183 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 6: interrupted by noise, then their cortisol levels go up and 184 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 6: their stress reactions go up. 185 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 5: That means my cortisol is through the roof. 186 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 4: Yes. 187 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: Now, when you gave that example, Chris, of being in 188 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: office and hearing other people chatter, I feel that way 189 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: about when people are playing like their phones or watching 190 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: videos on speaker and you can hear it because it's 191 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 2: like a high pitch. Do you know what I'm saying? 192 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: I read rather if it was like musaic or something 193 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: that I can't pick up every now and then I 194 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: hear the words and I'm like, what is it? 195 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 5: I hate it? 196 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing I wrote about restaurant noise. 197 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 6: So there's a there's one issue there where in the 198 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 6: nineteen nineties they that they wanted to get rid of 199 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 6: all the upholstery and all the carpets and got this 200 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 6: new modern industrial look with all kinds of hard surfaces everywhere, 201 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 6: which allowed every sound to reverberate and endlessly bounce. And 202 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 6: then you brought the kitchen in from where it was 203 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 6: and put it in the middle of everybody, and then 204 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 6: you had cranking up the music so this creates a 205 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 6: cacophony that people have a real hard time having conversations in. 206 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 6: But on the flip side, have you ever eaten in 207 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 6: a restaurant that's too quiet where you hear everybody's slurping 208 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 6: their soup next to you and you can hear everybody's 209 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 6: you know, everyone has to like whisper and they're kind 210 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 6: of afraid to talk. It's excruciating. And so there's a 211 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 6: level at which having sound as a background, when you 212 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 6: can't distinguish and it's not intelligible, is a benefit to 213 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 6: your ability to focus and have conversations or do your work. 214 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: Now, I think we're talking about sound and noise as 215 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 2: a nuisance, but in your book you talk about noise 216 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 2: being weaponized, and I'm curious about, like, what's one of 217 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: the wildest examples you came across while researching this. 218 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 6: So well, the wildest one was a French I think 219 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 6: it might have been Russian originally, that he was living 220 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 6: in Marseille and he was a rogue scientist at this 221 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 6: lab where he was trying to use infrasound, which is 222 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 6: sound that's below our ability to hear. It's really low frequency, 223 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 6: and he was trying to use that to essentially kill people. 224 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: I mean, oh, what like. 225 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 3: The ear did kind of Okay, So let's talk about 226 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 3: frequency before we get into this death sound. So sound 227 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 3: is all about vibrations, and they're invisible waves that travel 228 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 3: through the air, water, and solids. And frequency is how 229 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 3: many of those vibrations happen in a given amount of time, 230 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 3: and that's measured and hurts. And the faster the vibrations, 231 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 3: the higher the frequency. And that's when we hear a 232 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: high pitch sound like a whistle. And on the other 233 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 3: side of that, when vibrations are slower, like the deep 234 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 3: banging of a drum, we hear a lower pitch. So, 235 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 3: in essence, frequency and pitch are two sides of the 236 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 3: same coin. Fast vibrations create a high pitch and slow 237 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 3: vibrations create low pitch. Okay, So Chris, let's continue with 238 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 3: the death sound machine that they were trying to make. 239 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 6: He created this giant whistle essentially that blasted out in 240 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 6: for sound at t one hundred and sixty decibels or 241 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 6: something like that, so very intense but very low frequency. 242 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 6: The problem was he just he didn't kill anybody. The 243 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 6: body is too compost the problem. 244 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 4: Okay, this is getting a little dark. 245 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: The problem for his theory. 246 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 4: Okay, with you, I'm with you. 247 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 3: And with such a low frequency, that sound wave is 248 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: like really big, you know, and it would be really 249 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 3: hard to actually hit a person with a sound wave 250 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: that is that big. It's like trying to hit a 251 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 3: fly with a jump rope, you know, Like if you're 252 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: like flinging that jump rope up and down to create waves, 253 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 3: like the chances of you hitting the fly is yeah, 254 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: slim to none. 255 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 6: So the idea being, if you're going to try to 256 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 6: harness that much power to hurt somebody, there's a lot 257 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 6: easier ways than trying to aim some kind of infrasound 258 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 6: gun at them. In general, the sound weapons that are 259 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 6: actually working and are out there are based on loudness. 260 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 6: They're based on just blowing your ears out, which has 261 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 6: some serious long term irreversible damage. These things were developed 262 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 6: by the Navy. They're called the l RAD, which is 263 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 6: the long Range Acoustic Device, and they have subsequently been 264 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 6: used by law enforcement, and that's been very controversial because, 265 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 6: like I said, when you get hit by a sound 266 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 6: that loud and it damages your inner ear, you don't 267 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 6: get that back. So it's as a crowd control measure. 268 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 6: It's controversial depending on how it's used. How powerful. 269 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh my goodness, I don't think I knew that. 270 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: I did not know that that's still in use today. 271 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 6: Or protests in New York of it was a police 272 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 6: brutality case that was that people were protesting and they 273 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 6: came out with this l rad device and they blasted 274 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 6: at people. They were holding it right at them. There 275 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 6: was a lawsuit where the defense was saying that the 276 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 6: police department was saying sound noise is not a use 277 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 6: of force, but of course it is. 278 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 4: It is. 279 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 6: It is okay, So the ruling came down that they 280 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 6: settled it. Basically, they're allowed to use this advice now 281 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 6: to sort of broadcast that please disperse commands, but they're 282 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 6: not allowed to use what's called the deterrent tone, which 283 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 6: is the super high intensity pain causing decibel tone. That's 284 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 6: where things stand. They're still in the arsenal right. 285 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 3: Wow, I think this is a great transition into the biology. 286 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 3: You just talked about the extreme effects of really really 287 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 3: loud sound, But how does chronic noise affect our bodies 288 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 3: like sleep, heart, and stress? 289 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 6: The stress response in an acute way is a potential 290 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 6: benefit to us. This is something that when you have 291 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 6: a response, you have this inflammatory response where you know, 292 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 6: white blood cells and other disease fighting cells come rushing out. 293 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 6: When you have this stress response, just in case you 294 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 6: know you're about to get bit by a sabertooth tiger 295 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 6: or something like that, you need to have that wound 296 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 6: healing quickly. But like any stress response, when it becomes chronic, 297 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 6: when you have so much inflammation coming all the time, 298 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 6: your arteries get clogged, you have a dysregulation in terms 299 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 6: of hormones. Your stress hormones are all out of whack. Basically, 300 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 6: stress in a chronic way, no matter what the source, 301 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 6: is a toxic thing. 302 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: There was a. 303 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 6: Study out of mass General Hospital that was doing pet scans, 304 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 6: full body pet scans of people who had cancer and 305 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 6: so they were coming back periodically to have to be 306 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 6: checked to see, you know, if they still had you know, 307 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 6: we're still in remission. And so they did these pet scans, 308 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 6: and so these cardiologists looked at the data of seven 309 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 6: or ten years of these pet scans, and they looked 310 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 6: at where these folks lived, and they decided they sort 311 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 6: of categorized them as being in they were stressed exposed 312 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 6: or not stress exposed. If they lived in an area 313 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 6: that was high noise exposure based on the modeling of 314 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 6: nearby roads or overflights and transportation noise, they were stress exposed. 315 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 6: It's part of the kind of stress soup. And I 316 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 6: often think about a lot of the non auditory noise 317 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 6: that we have to deal with now that's also stressing 318 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 6: us out. All of the overstuffed email in boxes, and 319 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 6: we can't get away from the pings and dings of 320 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 6: our phones because people are constantly trying to reach us, 321 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 6: and then we are scrolling through our social media and 322 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 6: that's stressing people out. I think it's of a piece 323 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 6: that is weighing on our cognition and on our focus 324 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 6: and on our I don't know, peace of mind, for 325 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 6: lack of a better term. 326 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: We've talked about this a little bit. T T and 327 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 2: I did this kind of web campaign that was about 328 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 2: looking up from your phone. Just because we get tied 329 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: in this loop of scrolling and seeing notifications. I have 330 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 2: moved to like putting my phone and focus mode where 331 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: I don't even see the badges that show up on 332 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: the apps. I don't even want to see them anymore, 333 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: you know, because I think those kind of things just 334 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 2: build up a little bit of stress and every now then, 335 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 2: like especially when you start your morning with that kind 336 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 2: of activity, it sets the tone for the entire day. 337 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: And you know, I was going to ask you to 338 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 2: help me understand how anticipating noise, you know, could affect us. 339 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 2: But once you define noise as unwanted signal, then it 340 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: became very clear. Because I was thinking, I can anticipate, Oh, 341 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: there's gonna be so many emails, or oh I I 342 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: have this project, have so much stuff to do, they're 343 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 2: gonna message me. Yes, you ever wake up a few 344 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 2: minutes before. 345 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 3: Or when somebody's ring tone is your alarm sound the 346 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 3: amount of stressed or even like, oh you have a 347 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: meeting coming in fifteen minutes, that sound, Oh my gosh. 348 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 4: It stresses me out every. 349 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 6: Time I put my phone on silent, and I get 350 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 6: in trouble for it because I miss all the calls 351 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 6: from my wife and my kids are like trying to 352 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 6: get me. 353 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: But it's worth it. 354 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 4: You're not stressed out. They are because they can't get 355 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 4: in touch me. 356 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: That's right. 357 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 5: My court is all is low. 358 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 4: I love that that's so funny. 359 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 2: I think we're talking about silencing our devices, getting rid 360 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: of some of the noise. This also makes me think 361 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 2: about this concept. There's this book about like your address 362 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 2: or zip code, and it talks about how almost it's 363 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: almost like destiny of sorts, where you live in your 364 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: exposure to yes, chemical and ear pollutants, but sound as well, 365 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 2: like you're talking about. And I think it makes me 366 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: think about is silence always the goal or are there 367 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 2: other types of sounds that are good for us? Because 368 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: we had a listener Linda who sent me a message 369 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 2: asked about sound baths and healing and so can sound 370 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: be restorative in a way? 371 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 6: Yes, And I'm glad you asked that because another thing 372 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 6: that when I started writing this book, when the pandemic 373 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 6: really came down on us, I had to cancel all 374 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 6: the reporting I had planned, and everything had to be 375 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 6: stopped for a while. But beyond that, I was kind 376 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 6: of struck by all of a sudden, the cities were 377 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 6: emptying out, and businesses were shutting down, and people weren't 378 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 6: going to school and nobody was getting together. And when 379 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 6: people measured this different cities, they found a four to 380 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 6: six decibel drop during the height of the COVID, and 381 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 6: people had a lot of I had mixed feelings about it, 382 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 6: of course, it was sort of like, yeah, I love 383 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 6: hearing the birds. 384 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: That's great. 385 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 6: I do find some solace in that amidst all this insanity. 386 00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 6: But you can't escape the context that this quiet world 387 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 6: stems from people losing their livelihoods, people losing their lives, people, 388 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 6: you know, over trauma, a huge amount of trauma. And 389 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 6: so I started thinking about what do we really want 390 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 6: when we're fighting noise? What is the kind of goal here? 391 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 6: Is it just quiet? Because we had quiet? And I 392 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 6: don't know if that's really what we wanted. There are 393 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 6: so many ways that sound can be our ally, and 394 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 6: when we think about it, especially when we think about 395 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 6: it proactively, and we're not just what I call whack 396 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 6: a molling decibels. Quiet is not the only worthwhile sonic goal, 397 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 6: and silence certainly is not. 398 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 3: Are there long term of differences and people who grow 399 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 3: up around a lot of noise versus people who don't. 400 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 3: But then when I think of that question, I think 401 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 3: of the demographics of people who are most likely going 402 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: to be in louder environments. There was someone who wrote 403 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: that the sound of gentrification is silence. So wealthier people 404 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 3: weaponize noise ordinances to turn down vibrant cultures, particularly in 405 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 3: areas undergoing rapid gentrification. 406 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 4: Can you talk. 407 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 3: About how silence is weaponized and then the effects of 408 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 3: silence versus noise on different populations. 409 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 6: First of all, I think two things can be true. 410 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 6: I think our interpretation of sound and what we designate 411 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 6: noise versus sound is absolutely impacted by our personal histories, 412 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 6: our cultural backgrounds, our mood, what have you. 413 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: That matters a lot. 414 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 6: I don't know that everybody who grew up in a 415 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 6: city feels the same way about sound, or I would 416 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 6: certainly not say that everybody belonging to any particular ethnic 417 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 6: groups thinks the same way about sound. But those things 418 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 6: do matter a lot, and it's true in the same 419 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 6: vein that noise ordinances and anti noise campaigns throughout history 420 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 6: have been used to target the particular noise makers, not 421 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 6: just the sounds themselves, just to people that if you 422 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 6: were in Victorian England, you have all these immigrants coming 423 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 6: from southern Europe working in the factories there, and then 424 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 6: they were the targets of the anti noise or ordinances 425 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 6: and when you have gentrification, noise complaints go up and 426 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 6: they correlate with that change in. 427 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: The neighborhood as well. And I know that there is 428 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: I think there were. 429 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 6: In the eighties, there was an anti noise campaign. There 430 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 6: was ostensibly just about amplified music in public, but it 431 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 6: basically used to target black youth with boomboxes. 432 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 5: It's the key. 433 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember, but I talked to 434 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 3: you about this because I used to live in DC 435 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 3: proper in Shaw and there was a store that had 436 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 3: a speaker outside of it that played Go Go music 437 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 3: and every day it was blast and it was loud, 438 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 3: but it was like the sounds of DC Go Go 439 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 3: music exactly. 440 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 4: It's like a lot of percussion, and no one had 441 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 4: a problem. We would always just you know, walk past it. 442 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: But then there was this luxury apartment that was built 443 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 3: like kind of right across the street from that, and 444 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 3: someone started calling the police and complaining, and so that 445 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 3: store had to move their speaker away. But that was 446 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 3: like a staple in the neighborhood, and so it caused 447 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 3: like a huge backlash where it started the whole Don't 448 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 3: Mute DC movement and sooner or later that speaker was 449 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 3: right back out there playing Go Go because we read that. 450 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 6: I think the other thing that I think is true 451 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 6: is that there is so much that we share as 452 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 6: humans in our reactions to sound. 453 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: We share the same. 454 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 6: Delicate inner ear anatomy and connections to our brain. We 455 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 6: share the same hair trigger connections between hearing and our 456 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 6: fight or flight response and stress. We share certain limitations 457 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 6: and our ability to focus. We all need to sleep. 458 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 6: I talk to so many people from Washington Heights and 459 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 6: in southwest Detroit and areas that have so many other 460 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 6: kind of environmental insults aimed at them, and they care 461 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 6: about noise. They care about noise as part of a 462 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 6: sort of caring about having a healthy place to live. 463 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 6: Sometimes we get caught up in one or the other. 464 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 6: We get caught up in noise as just a straight 465 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 6: up health threat that is this next second half smoke 466 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 6: and we need to stop it, or we get caught 467 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 6: up in talking about this is another just another piece 468 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 6: of gentrification. I think that these two things exist side 469 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 6: by side. 470 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, as you've been sharing this, I've been thinking about 471 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: structurally some things we know. I've been thinking about even 472 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 2: just accit like even just trees in neighborhoods to absorb sounds, 473 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 2: to keep in place, especially I'm in the South, to 474 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 2: keep neighborhoods cooler where they have historically been trees and 475 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 2: they're able to give great tree cover and to absorb sound. 476 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 2: I think about it in the context of, yes, it 477 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 2: would be great, you know, the neighbor thing I'm used to. 478 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 2: I have been in a townholl I don't want to 479 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 2: say I'm used to I deal with I've been in 480 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: a townhome or an apartment, but I think that everybody 481 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 2: can't be in a single family home. The best solutions 482 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 2: are some kind of trade off of yes, hearing noise, 483 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 2: but also being close to work, and being close to 484 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: not just work, but like parks, and being close to 485 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 2: healthy food. Right, and when we have mixed use developments 486 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: or we have multifamily units and structures that allow that, 487 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 2: there may be some noise trade off that comes with that. 488 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 5: TT and I think a. 489 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 2: Lot about soundscapes as creators of audio. She came to 490 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: visit me at my parents' house a couple of weeks ago, 491 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: and I was thinking about when I first got there 492 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 2: and you were like, oh, we're in the country, and 493 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: I'm like yes, And I had to just stop and 494 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 2: be like. 495 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 5: What do I hear? What birds? Do I hear? What 496 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 5: insects trilling? Do I hear? 497 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: That? 498 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 2: Feel like home to me? That's part of my soundscape. 499 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 2: That would probably be a nuisance to someone else that didn't. 500 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 5: Like what is that? I'm like, that's a frog? 501 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 4: Don't you know that? I don't that near me? 502 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 2: Told us about things you've seen that are creative or 503 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 2: maybe even counterintuitive approaches to creating soundscapes that fight noise 504 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 2: pollution also allow vibrant living. 505 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, So I'll tell you about a researcher who she's 506 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 6: an urbanist. Her name is Antonella Riddicki, and she created 507 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 6: an app called Hush City. Antonella was looking at some 508 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 6: of the big cities that have quiet areas, and what 509 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 6: she saw was many of them tend to be in 510 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 6: the middle of some giant park, or on the outskirts 511 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 6: of the city, or somewhere that people have a really 512 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 6: hard time getting to them. And so the question is 513 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 6: what's the purpose here. The widest number of people access 514 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 6: to a respite from city noise and a place to 515 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 6: feel rejuvenated, we should have what she called everyday quiet areas. 516 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 6: So the purpose of this Hush City app was the 517 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 6: crowdsource what everyday quiet areas would be in your city 518 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 6: and what she was doing it as part of a 519 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 6: public service, but part of a research project. So the 520 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 6: question is, like, what were people identifying as quiet? What 521 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 6: did people like? And it wasn't the lowest decibel places. 522 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 6: They liked places that had a different kind of an 523 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 6: acoustic feel to your busy, crazy streetscape. Maybe it was 524 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 6: a pocket park, maybe it was just a quieter side street. 525 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 6: They really liked when they could hear people, not tons 526 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 6: of people, like they like places that were conducive to socializing. 527 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 6: Antonella said is people are not looking for silence, they 528 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 6: want places of high sonic quality. And this approach is 529 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 6: kind of, I think, gaining ground at least where people 530 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 6: think about sound already. They're starting to think about soundscapes, 531 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 6: They're starting to think about high sonic quality and how 532 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 6: to achieve that and what that means. The larger point 533 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 6: I think is that sound connects us to our world, 534 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,479 Speaker 6: it connects us to our neighborhood, it connects us to 535 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 6: each other. And when I think about noise, noise gets 536 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 6: in the way of that noise is something that interrupts 537 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 6: our connections. 538 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: I feel like I've learned so much about sound from 539 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 3: reading your book and talking to you today, Like it's 540 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 3: really just revolutionizing how I'm just moving through the world 541 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: and the things that I'm paying attention to. 542 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 2: All Right, can you let folks know where they can 543 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 2: find your book. 544 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 6: The book is called clamor How Noise took Over the 545 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 6: World and How We Can Take It Back. It is 546 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 6: out now and available everywhere books are sold. I'll direct 547 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 6: people to my web page, which is TRIPLEW dot Chris 548 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 6: Burdick dot com, and that will link you to the 549 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 6: book and some other writing that I have done. Anything 550 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 6: you want to know and be able to contact me 551 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 6: through it as well. 552 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 4: That sounds great, amazing. 553 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 5: This is really helping me. I just had some neighbors moving. 554 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 2: I was just complaining to ts she was and so 555 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, this is. 556 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 5: Just part of living. This is important and I'm getting 557 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 5: used to it. I'm getting better. 558 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 3: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope 559 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 3: Labs podcast, tt. 560 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 5: Is on X and Instagram at d R Underscore t Shoe. 561 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 3: And you can find Takiya at z said so. 562 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 5: Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media. 563 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 3: Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate 564 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 3: producer is Issara Savez. 565 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 2: Dope Labs is sound design, edited and mixed by James Farber. 566 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 2: Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. 567 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 2: Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvil. 568 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 5: Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. 569 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 3: Original music composed and produced by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex 570 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 3: sudi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab 571 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 3: is executive produced by us T T Show Dia and 572 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 3: Kia Wattley.