1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hither. It's Steve Fishman with Orbit Media. We're back with 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: another episode of Death and Deceit in Alliance. I hope 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: you're enjoying the show. Just a quick message for access 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: to all fourteen episodes ad free and all at once. 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Subscribe with Apple Podcasts on our show page. 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance. 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 3: Found in a pool of her own blood, she said 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 3: she was murdered. 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 4: And I I mean, you could have just knocked me 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 4: over right now. 11 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 5: They tell me these pretty body seene in there so 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 5: gloves end boys on this one. That's I mean, there's 13 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 5: just a massive amount of blood around her face, like 14 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 5: shock and awe. 15 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 6: It's like as if it's not even real, like something 16 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 6: has to be wrong. 17 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 7: And then one. 18 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 8: Day I just lost everything and I didn't care about 19 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 8: life no more. 20 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 9: And David knew about it, even took advantage of me. 21 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: This is Death and Deceit and Alliance, a real time 22 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 2: investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane. I'm Maggie Freeling. 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 2: Joe Wilkes. Is the entire case against David Thorn. Police 24 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: prosecutors and David all agree David was not the actual 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: murderer because he was towns away at a martial arts class. 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: But to police and prosecutors, this didn't mean David was innocent. 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: It simply meant there must have been an accomplice, someone 28 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: David hired to have Yvonne Lane killed, and that person, 29 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 2: they said was his friend. Joe Wilkes. The man known 30 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: as Joseph Isaac Wilkes grew up in a small Ohio 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: town called Dover, about eighty five miles south of Cleveland. 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: He was born Joseph Isaac Brown June fifth, nineteen eighty 33 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: to Dorothy and Isaac Brown. It was a terrible upbringing, 34 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 2: as Joe explained in his trial testimony. Joe had two siblings, 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: Jennifer and Jason. Joe said that he only lived with 36 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 2: his biological parents for a year and a half because 37 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 2: his father threw his little brother down the stairs, breaking 38 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: both of his wrists, arm and fracturing his skull. All 39 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: three kids were put into foster homes. In kindergarten, Joe 40 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: was psychologically evaluated and labeled as quote behaviorally handicapped and 41 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: emotionally disturbed, and thus he was placed in special education classes. 42 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: Around this time, at five years old, Joe was able 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: to go back and live with his biological mother again, 44 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: but things didn't improve. At nine, Joe was put back 45 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 2: into foster care. He said he was taken out of 46 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 2: his mother's home because quote, they were abusive physically, emotionally, 47 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: and sexual. It's unclear who Joe meant by they. He 48 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: and his biological siblings were eventually adopted when Joe was 49 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: twelve by Sterling and Brenda Wilkes from Atwater. Atwater is 50 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: just fifteen minutes from Alliance. Joe's life seemed better with 51 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: the Wilkeses, but the damage from his past was severe. 52 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: In ninth grade, Joe was evaluated again. A report on 53 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: the evaluation says Joe had an inability to maintain interpersonal relationships, 54 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: show's inappropriate behavior or feelings under normal circumstances, pervasive feelings 55 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: of unhappiness or depression, and a tendency to develop physical 56 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: symptoms or fear associated with personal or school problems. The 57 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: reportless behaviors such as nervousness, twitching, lying, cheating, and mood changes. 58 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: It says Joe was secretive and felt worthless, that he 59 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: got lonely and could be clingy. It also says he 60 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: has a reoccurring fear of doing bad and often acted 61 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: to please other people. Joe had motor skill problems too, 62 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: and was reportedly shaky even when he wasn't nervous. Doctors 63 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: also noted that Joe often had negative feelings towards himself 64 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: and would say things like I'm stupid and you must 65 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: have me confused with someone smart. At fourteen, the shaky, twitchy, 66 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 2: traumatized teen entered high school and was a target of 67 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: bullies and the butt of jokes. 68 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 8: Here's kind of a loner, didn't really have a lot 69 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 8: of friends. I kind of felt bad for him, kind 70 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 8: of like a I don't know, I have a soft 71 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 8: spot for people. 72 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 7: You know. 73 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 8: He didn't want to have your best home life. 74 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: This is Josh McComb, who you heard last episode, one 75 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: of the kids the police asked about Yvan's mur. 76 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 8: He was a little smartest kid. He wasn't you know. 77 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 8: She Mi Ka was all right, but he just didn't 78 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 8: have a lot of friends. 79 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 2: Joe testified that he became involved in drugs like acid 80 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: and cocaine and eventually wound up homeless. This is when 81 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: he met David. Joe said they met at a party 82 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: through a friend and eventually they started hanging out. Josh 83 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: McComb was friends with David and eventually started hanging around 84 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: Joe too. 85 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 8: I actually met Joe through my sister. They were he 86 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 8: was in the younger grade, so my sister hung out 87 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 8: at his house and at some point I don't remember 88 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 8: when I ended up. 89 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 9: Hanging out over there too. 90 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 8: She didn't have, you know, good parents. 91 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 7: He didn't. 92 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 8: I don't remember ever seeing his dad around. His adopted dad, 93 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 8: and he's fall back. 94 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: Joe was younger than David by nearly a decade, so 95 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: he was like a big brother figure. As David said 96 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: in the last episode, he also felt bad for Joe 97 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: and would try to help him in any way he could, 98 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: from giving him rides to letting him sleep on his couch. 99 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,679 Speaker 2: David had his own place. David says he even bought 100 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: Joe his first car in October nineteen ninety eight or seven, 101 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: a Volkswagen Rabbit for three hundred dollars, So it's not 102 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: surprising that Joe was said to idolize David. That was 103 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: just the kind of person I've been told David was, 104 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 2: even by Josh, who was also younger than David. 105 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 8: David was kind of like a big brother to all 106 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 8: of us. 107 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 2: By this time, Joe was spending a lot of time 108 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: around David, and David started teaching Joe martial arts. Joe 109 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: was picked on his entire life, and it was probably empowering, 110 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 2: like now he could fight back. Josh said, Joe was 111 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 2: not a natural fighter. 112 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 8: Didn't have guts, you know, he didn't have like I 113 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 8: don't think the kid ever been in a fight in 114 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 8: his life, and I don't, you know, he got in 115 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 8: trouble and stuff, and I know that he just wasn't 116 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 8: a violent kid. 117 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 6: He wasn't. 118 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: Although around this time Joe's behavior did start to turn 119 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: to mischief. What I found to be a quiet, victimized, 120 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: keep to himself kid pleaded guilty to stealing shoes on 121 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: January twenty first, nineteen ninety nine, when he would have 122 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: been eighteen. This is the first criminal record I can 123 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: find for Joe. And of course Joe was poor fending 124 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: for himself, and he probably just needed new shoes. Through 125 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: this time, Joe was still attending public school, but he 126 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: left in eleventh grade and joined a vocational school, the 127 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: same one David and Yvonne attended, but the vocational school 128 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: was short lived. Joe got in a fight with a 129 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: boy named Chris Campbell, who is a huge, huge part 130 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: of the story. We'll get to him later. After the fight, 131 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: Joe was sent to a behavioral school. Finally, in the 132 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: spring of nineteen ninety eight, Joe's senior year, he dropped 133 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: out of vocational school and he was done with school altogether. 134 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: And I just want to say that all of this 135 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: breaks my heart. Joe doesn't seem like a particularly bad kid, 136 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 2: just troubled. Joe was also a good looking kid, handsome, 137 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: six foot four, athletic. He seems like he had a 138 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 2: lot of potential. After he dropped out of school, Joe 139 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: wasn't working. In fact, it doesn't seem like he ever 140 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: worked much. He said he worked at a restaurant for 141 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: a month when he was sixteen, and then after that 142 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: he'd done random construction jobs with his grandpa. At the 143 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: time he was arrested, he said he was supporting himself 144 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: through his girlfriends and the kindness of people like David 145 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 2: and Josh. After a bad breakup Joe, Joe moved in 146 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 2: with his friend Summer Enoch and her parents, Karen and Brent. 147 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 2: Karen testified they were okay helping Joe get on his feet, 148 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: but if he was going to stay with them, he 149 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: needed to get a job and follow their rules, like 150 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: letting them know he'd be home for dinner if he 151 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: was working, stuff like that. But he didn't follow any 152 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: of the rules or get a job, and Joe wound 153 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: up on the street again. Yvonne's body was discovered on 154 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: April first, nineteen ninety nine. Joe was kicked out of 155 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: Karen's house in May. In July, Joe was arrested for 156 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: criminal mischief. He was convicted in order to pay a 157 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: three thousand dollars fine and released just a week later. 158 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 2: Joe says he was out partying, drinking, doing coke, and 159 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: dropping acid. He was having a typical Joe night and 160 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: it would be the last one he'd ever have. Meanwhile, 161 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: the police had received a tip which led to a 162 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: young woman named Rose Moore. 163 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 6: I de kepted William Lucklow interviewing Rose More also president 164 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 6: in Sorry protecting Buck Sampson. If you just go ahead 165 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 6: and tell me what you what transpired several months ago 166 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 6: along with your boyfriend Chris Campbell. 167 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 7: Okay. 168 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: Twenty three year old Rose told officers that she and 169 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: her boyfriend Chris Campbell were in the food court at 170 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: the Carnation Mall on April thirty. 171 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 10: First went in the Cathay court waiting on my dad 172 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 10: and you got something to eat? I think its be 173 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 10: French fried or something. 174 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: Rose says they bumped into Joe Wilkes. She didn't remember 175 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: the time, but it was dark out and likely after work. 176 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: Rose and Chris worked at a telemarketing center in the 177 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 2: Carnation Mall. Chris Campbell knew Joe from school and the 178 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: three of them started talking. Remember Chris was the kid 179 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: Joe got into a fight with just a few months earlier, 180 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: the fight that got Joe kicked out a vocational school. 181 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 2: Since Joe was from Atwater, Chris asked him what he 182 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 2: was doing in Alliance. 183 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 10: Joe said that he had a job to do that 184 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 10: some guys telling him to stay at the Tyeford in 185 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 10: for the weekend, and he said, you know, well, he 186 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 10: really got off the subject because Chrits kept trying to 187 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 10: get it out of him what he was there for. 188 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 10: And I think he went to say and Chris, you know, 189 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 10: kept saying, well, I'm your friend, you know you can 190 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 10: trust me, And then he got off the subject started 191 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 10: talking about like the next Joe did, and then Chris 192 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 10: started up again and next and you know, well, what 193 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 10: what okay job are you here to do? And they said, well, 194 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 10: some guy paid me to kills some girl an Alliance. 195 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 10: And he didn't say anything. You're making a prince and around. 196 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: I'm not glad to Joe responded that some guy paid 197 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: him to kill a girl in Alliance and was paid 198 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 2: three hundred dollars up front. He said the guy who 199 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 2: was paying him also paid for his room at the 200 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: Comfort in that night to stay in Alliance. The Comfort 201 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: Inn was inside the mall. Rose told police that then 202 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: Joe pulled out a knife from a sheath and showed 203 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: it to. 204 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 10: Them, and he showed it the knife that he had 205 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 10: on it. I think he was the next clocket and 206 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 10: it was it looked like a honey knife. 207 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 7: To me. 208 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 10: It wasn't an clock at night. It was bigger than that. 209 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 10: And he showed it and he said it that that 210 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 10: he was basically killer d it was. It was better 211 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 10: than a clock at knife. It looked like honey knife 212 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 10: to me. 213 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 9: A letter sheet, but it. 214 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 10: Might have been. I'm not really like tig, but it 215 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 10: could have been. I think it was because when he 216 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 10: told it outthing went like that, how long do you 217 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 10: think it? 218 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 7: Like? Well, I got that bag. 219 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: About eight inches is remember that because Joe later said 220 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: he had a pocket knife. Then Rose said, after a 221 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: few more minutes of conversation with Joe, he wrote his 222 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 2: name and page your number on a card for Chris 223 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: to have for the future. Rose told police that's when 224 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 2: her dad showed up to pick them up and they left. 225 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: Rose also described what Joe was wearing well. 226 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 10: At the moment after from he had the Nike y 227 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 10: app been on it as it was like a light 228 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 10: try white, black and blue. I'm not clogging on the 229 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 10: colors that I know. It was white for sure. It 230 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 10: was like a white jacket and he had like a 231 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 10: white paint top underneath that I think, and she had 232 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 10: white pants and white pants things like Nike. You can't 233 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 10: why you haven't come forward because I've been scared for 234 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 10: my life because Chris Campbell told me if I said anything, 235 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 10: and he didn't come after me. And that's why I've 236 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 10: been scared, because I don't want to die. Sure, I'm 237 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 10: children to raise. 238 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 2: They ended the conversation shortly after that. Two days later, 239 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: police were looking for Joe and found him hungover at 240 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: a friend's house after the night of partying and brought 241 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 2: him in for questioning. Joe said the police drove him 242 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: to the station and read him his miranda rights, although 243 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: he was not under arrest at the time. The detectives 244 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: in the room with Joe were Bud Samson, William Mucklow, 245 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: and John Leech. In a deposition, Joe was asked whether 246 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: he remembered being interviewed by the police, and Joe responded, quote, 247 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: they never interviewed me. They interrogated me the whole time 248 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: they were interrogating me before they pushed the play button. 249 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 2: Joe's statement was recorded over two days. 250 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 11: Today date of July fourteenth, nineteen ninety nine, Wednesday. It's 251 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 11: thirteen or nine hours. My namely Detective Bug Sampson where 252 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 11: they were bent a police department interview room. I want 253 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 11: me to Detective William Mucklow and Detective John Leah of 254 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 11: the Alliance Police Department. 255 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 9: Also in the room is Joseph Isaac Books. 256 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: In the recording, police read Joe his Miranda writes on 257 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: record and then got right to the point, can. 258 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 9: You tell us your part in this. 259 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 7: Damn Roddie all did about four years now he's been 260 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 7: training me in shoot fighting, and he's always been talking 261 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 7: to me like how long she was since that one 262 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 7: of the ones out of his life and then he 263 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 7: can have his little boy. 264 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 9: And then. 265 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 12: For years I told him to cheat me out then 266 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 12: want nothing to do with it, and then what wng 267 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 12: was that Juba way okay? And then one day about 268 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 12: the twils everything and I didn't care about life. 269 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 7: No more, didn't just do about it to any of 270 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 7: me and we hadn't smart time. 271 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 12: Faddy fourball brother, oh fair? 272 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 9: What did David. 273 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 7: Thing was like, well be you and you wants to 274 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 7: be better to be? If I can make it that way, 275 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 7: I'll tell you to do something for me. 276 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 2: Joe said that David asked him to kill y Vaughan, 277 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: and Joe, with nothing to lose, agreed, what did he 278 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: approach you to do that? 279 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 9: To always say about a month before it hated. 280 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 7: And he told me if they didn't make sure I 281 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 7: was okay and then a fine stay out of it. 282 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 9: And so did he take me up? What morning to 283 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 9: me to Alian. 284 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 7: Swall at the culture did and Alpy day for a 285 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 7: room without a dollar below and then he sent me 286 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 7: to get a knife and so baseball gloves. 287 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: Jo said. David gave him money for a knife and 288 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 2: baseball gloves and paid for the hotel room for him 289 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: at the Alliance Carnation Mall. 290 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 9: How much money did David tell you? 291 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 12: I told me what's gonna get me out of it? 292 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 12: He got to give our life. 293 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 2: Better, josephs. The day of the murder, they drove around 294 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: and discussed the plan. 295 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 7: Thanks all me, how to do any told every by 296 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 7: waiting the story little all about nine nine thirty insurance 297 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 7: study by ten o'clock. 298 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 9: Because it's done to me and he'll be leaving. 299 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 12: They'll have jobs for them in the in the chest, okay, 300 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 12: God and. 301 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: Joe says that since David would be at his class 302 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: with Josh and the Lion Cub that night, he'd have 303 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: an alibi, so to make sure the murder happened in 304 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 2: that timeframe by ten pm. Then, he says, David dropped 305 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: him at the mall a comfort in receipt shows Joe 306 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: rented a room at one forty six and paid cash 307 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: with one hundred dollars bill. Then he went to Kmart 308 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 2: to get the gloves, and he went back to David's car. 309 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: David drove him around and eventually he wound up back 310 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: at the Enox. The Enox are the people who'd taken 311 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 2: Joe in for a while, but he wasn't following their rules. 312 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: Joe was back on good terms with them and doing 313 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 2: a job with Brent Enoch that evening. The Enox testified 314 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 2: that David stopped by with the cub for about a 315 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: half an hour and then he left around five pm 316 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 2: for class. The Enox and Joe then ate dinner and 317 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: after Brent took Joe to a carpentry job. On the 318 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 2: way to the job, Joe asked Brent if he'd drop 319 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: him at the Carnation Mall. After Brent testified that Joe 320 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: told him he was meeting David there and then spending 321 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 2: the night at David's to clean David's garage. Instead, Joe 322 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: says he stayed at the mall, where he allegedly bumped 323 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: into Rose and Chris and allegedly told them he was 324 00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: in town to kill a girl. 325 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 12: And how did you get to the house from the mall? 326 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 12: I went from the mall to the house, and. 327 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 7: I was walking down and I walked to her house 328 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 7: and the door was unwalked up. 329 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 2: And did remember Yvonne Son Preston said he never locked 330 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: the door when his mom asked him to. 331 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 7: I was screamed your name, and I was walking up 332 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 7: the first slightly stand when she was coming down to 333 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 7: the bedroom, did she and she met me one okay, 334 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 7: what did you make him? 335 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 9: But she was like, hey, what are you doing. 336 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 7: To hear the shields? I ain't seen you a whole time. 337 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 7: I was like, yo, Dad just wanted me to stop 338 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 7: and see how things were. And yeah, and then where 339 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 7: instead the talking. 340 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 3: For about three or five minutes and then okay, I 341 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 3: know this is to be hard, but we got to 342 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 3: go through and you tell me what happened. Yet, where 343 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 3: were you sitting? Were you're sitting upstairs, you're downstairs. 344 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 7: We're on the second, the third one, okay, and we're 345 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 7: still the job starting then Stormer. 346 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: What Joe said is that they were sitting on the 347 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 2: couch and he reached his arm around her body, pulled 348 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: her hair back, and slit her throat and then she 349 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 2: got up, tried to run, went to the sliding glass door, 350 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 2: turned around and asked him why. Joe answered, because David 351 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,239 Speaker 2: wanted me to. Then Yvonne collapsed. Joe says he went 352 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 2: to the hotel and sat up all night thinking about it. 353 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 2: An employee for the phone company Ameriatech testified at trial 354 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 2: that the next morning, April first, someone called David at 355 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 2: eight twenty eight am from a mall payphone. Prosecutors pointed 356 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: to that as proof that David left work to pick 357 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: up Joe. The morning after the murder was committed. Now, 358 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 2: at nine am, David did take a break from work. 359 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: His coworker testified that David left for about an hour 360 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: and a half and returned with McDonald's. The sandwiches were hot, 361 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: the prosecution said. During this time, David picked up Joe 362 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: at the hotel and took him back to the Enoch residence. 363 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 12: Why do you pick you upout offs on the way? 364 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 2: Joe says he put his clothes in a bag and 365 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 2: gave the bag to David, but forgot about his pants, 366 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 2: so he threw them in the woods and he doesn't 367 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: remember where his shoes went. 368 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 9: What did you do with your shoes? 369 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 13: Oh, I don't remote yourself, Okay, Why did you throw 370 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 13: the phoenix thing on the pfio and show really. 371 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 9: The gloves were the gloves off? Don't worried as you want. 372 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 12: Dump street. Mcdoud's up by your house. 373 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 9: The house, and you ran back in a month. Now 374 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 9: that you run down State Street? 375 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 2: Is State Street is the main road in Alliance. It's 376 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: really more like a highway. Joe said he ran down 377 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 2: State Street nearly four miles back to the hotel, presumably 378 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 2: covered in blood on the way. He says he ditched 379 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 2: the knife on a side street. 380 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 7: So why did David want to star David when you 381 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 7: want to have to pay so much money from Charles? 382 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: Yes, he told you this, he says, So David didn't 383 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 2: have to pay so much in child support. 384 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 9: Are you sorry for what you did? 385 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 12: Because I can't believe I did it? 386 00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 9: Hey? 387 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 12: Well, and are you willing to. 388 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 9: Stand up for yourself? 389 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 6: No antutifying art against the Dave thorny. 390 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 9: Hey anything else? 391 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 7: Yeah? 392 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 11: Okay, that's going to conclude this interview. It's one day, 393 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 11: July fourteenth, nineteen ninety nine. Time now is thirteen twenty 394 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 11: six hours. 395 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 5: What did you go? 396 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 2: After Joe finished his statement, he was charged with aggravated murder. 397 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 2: Twenty six year old David Thorn was also arrested and 398 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 2: charged with complicity to murder for hiring Joe to kill 399 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 2: Yvonne Lane. David went to trials six months later on 400 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 2: January eighteenth, two thousand, Joe took a plea to take 401 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 2: the death penalty off the table and was given thirty 402 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 2: years to life for his testimony against David. Prosecutors forcefully 403 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 2: argued that David hired Joe to kill Vaughan and that 404 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 2: Joe was the perfect person to do it. He was 405 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: broke and idolized David. Witness testimony, person after person described 406 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: Joe's conversations about David and his seeming obsception with David. 407 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: The friendless teen would do anything for him, witnesses said, 408 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 2: and the motive David was upset that he had to 409 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: pay child support. Remember, in the months leading up to 410 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 2: the trial, David was court ordered to pay three hundred 411 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 2: and fifty one dollars per month starting January nineteen ninety nine. 412 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 2: But at trial, the coroner was unable to pin down 413 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 2: an exact time of death. He testified that Ivonne's time 414 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: of death was within a seventeen hour window sometime after 415 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 2: seven pm, so from seven pm to when she was 416 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 2: found around noon the next day am. He did not 417 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 2: remember if he did a sexual assault kit, and he 418 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 2: did not take body temperature. He testified that despite a 419 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 2: four x eight inch slice to her throat, which cut 420 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: her trachea, an internal and external left side carotid arteries, 421 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 2: and left her nearly decapitated, he said, Yvonne was likely 422 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: capable of some movement, and it's possible she could have 423 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 2: said one to two words. That fits with Joe's story 424 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 2: that Yvonne got up, walked to the sliding glass doors, 425 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 2: turned around, asked him why, and collapsed. David's team did 426 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: not present an expert to refute any of this. You 427 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 2: know that the gaping wound that had severed her vocal 428 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 2: cords may not have left her able to speak or move, 429 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: and that it seems unlikely that such a small knife, 430 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 2: remember Joe said it was his pocket knife, a three 431 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: point one inch blade, to have made this injury, or 432 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: the fact that such a bloody wound would likely leave 433 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 2: evidence in the crevices of the folding knife and Joe's clothes. 434 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 2: No blood or other evidence was found on the clothes 435 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 2: the police recovered, or the knife Joe led the cops to, 436 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,239 Speaker 2: and no one questioned why the coroner couldn't be more 437 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: precise in his time of death estimate, and if he 438 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 2: can't establish a precise time of death, then the list 439 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 2: of possible suspects is even longer. David said he felt 440 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 2: like his counsel was inadequate. Over All, the prosecution called 441 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 2: eighteen witnesses and the defense only called three. David also 442 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: said that his lawyer often smelled of alcohol. 443 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 5: I don't know. I guess it was like a high 444 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 5: out like it almost like if you walk into a 445 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 5: cheap bar where you just had that key cigarettes. Now 446 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 5: that's that's the only way I can really describe it. 447 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,719 Speaker 5: And was disheveled again the same suit and drink all 448 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 5: the diff He's weapon it and acap afkan my grandparents 449 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 5: for gum and candy. I mean, even the judge picked 450 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 5: up on it to a certain extent, because the judge 451 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 5: told him to swow it down and to speak clearly, 452 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 5: and then other times even told him to speak up, 453 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 5: and even just my mind along. 454 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 2: I'm going to note here that the years after David's case, 455 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 2: Hoppt died outside of his home from hypothermia due to 456 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 2: or as a consequence of acute alcohol intoxication. Now, in fairness, 457 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 2: it doesn't seem the defense was all bad. For example, 458 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 2: on cross examination of the coroner, the defense was able 459 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: to get him to say it's unlikely the pocket knife, 460 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 2: the alleged murder weapon, made Yvonne's injury, and Joe, who 461 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 2: supposedly killed Ivan David. His story was all over the place. 462 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 2: He told multiple versions of who drove him, where and when, 463 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 2: who picked him up, what happened to his clothes, the knife, 464 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 2: the gloves. The defense pointed out his differing statements, and 465 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 2: to me it was clear that Joe was less than 466 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 2: a reliable witness. But in the end it took the 467 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: jury only three hours to decide that they believed the 468 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 2: prosecution's evidence and Joe's confession was the truth that David 469 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 2: hired Joe to Killy Vaughan. On January twenty fifth, two thousand, 470 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 2: the jury found David guilty in complicity to murder. At 471 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: the sentencing, the jury was deadlocked at the appropriate sentence. 472 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 2: They didn't know whether to sentence David to death or not. 473 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: At the time, he would have been executed by Old Sparky, 474 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: a macabre nickname for Ohio's electric chair. David made an 475 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 2: impassioned plea for his life to the jury, and he 476 00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: read it to me. 477 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 5: I respect you the jury, I respect the job that 478 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 5: you have done. I also respect that it was a 479 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 5: hard job. I did not do this, and although you 480 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 5: thought that the evidence proved it, I know in my 481 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 5: heart and soul I did not do this. I need 482 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 5: to tell you Yvonne's family, I'm sorry that Yvonne had died. 483 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 5: She was your daughter and the mother of my son Brandon. 484 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 5: Go my love very much. I'm here asking you that 485 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 5: you commit me to write my son from prison and 486 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 5: be his father, because I know what it meant to 487 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 5: lose mind at such a young age, and I wouldn't 488 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 5: wish this on anyone. I just want to thank my 489 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 5: family and friends, especially my grandparents, for all of the 490 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 5: support they had given me throughout this whole case, and 491 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 5: I wouldn't trade any one of you for the world. 492 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: After almost two days of deliberation, the jury still couldn't 493 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 2: agree on a sentence, so the judge eventually sentenced David 494 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 2: to life in prison without the possibility of parole, where 495 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: David still sits today, dead in the water. But for 496 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: a period hope was renewed and a woman named Sue 497 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 2: came into his life. She was a family friend, though 498 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: not a close one. She was a humble post office 499 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 2: worker who'd follow the case like just about everyone in 500 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: the county. A lot of people were satisfied with the verdict, 501 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 2: but Sue felt like something wasn't right. She'd known David 502 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 2: from the post office and he was always the sweetest guy. 503 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 2: She told me something was wrong. She felt it in 504 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 2: her gut. 505 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 10: The guy I knew that came into the post office, 506 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 10: that threw up his fan away and granned all the time, 507 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 10: and he's just the nicest guy ever. 508 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 7: I thought, no, this can't be. 509 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: Sue had no background in investigations, no law enforcement experience, 510 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: but she was driven and had time since she was retired, 511 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: and she started to dig and talk to David about 512 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: his case. She was a couple decades older than David, 513 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 2: but over the years they became friends. She became his ally, 514 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 2: his connection to the outside, his shot at freedom, and 515 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: later in a ceremony at the prison, his wife. At first, 516 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 2: though she was just a woman poking around. 517 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 9: I just went around knocking on doors because I was 518 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 9: green at this I didn't know what I was doing. 519 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 7: I was just wanted to talk to everybody and get 520 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 7: some information. 521 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 2: Sue was convinced David didn't hire Joe to kill Yvaughan. 522 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: She wrote to Joe too, I said, this is this 523 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 2: is who I am. I know these people. 524 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 4: I'd like to know your story. 525 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 7: And he ignored me. 526 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 9: He'd been screwed over. 527 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 4: By so many people by that time. He wasn't about 528 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 4: to play the game again. And then I got the 529 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 4: documents at that point, and I read him and I 530 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 4: wrote him again and I said, I don't think you 531 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 4: did this because your statement isn't lining up. 532 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 2: And that's when Joe agreed to talk to her, coming 533 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 2: up on death and deceit in alliance. 534 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 3: To me, from what I understand of the case, stuff 535 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 3: just didn't make sense. 536 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 2: The guy I knew that. 537 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 4: Came into the post office that threw up his hand 538 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 4: away and grinned all the time, and he's just the 539 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 4: nicest guy ever. I thought, no, this can't be Where 540 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 4: he said that, they put him in a room and 541 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 4: they changed him to the wall by his arm and 542 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 4: spit on him, and they told him that they wanted 543 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 4: him to confess. 544 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 3: Bred Turvey, a nationally non criminal forensics expert, pipped apart 545 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 3: what he calls a botched cake. 546 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 4: Simpthing's missing, can't I can't understand. 547 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 12: There's got to be more. 548 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 10: He could have paid off his entire eighteen years of 549 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 10: child support with a check. 550 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 9: Why didn't the prosecution turn this over on? 551 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 7: What is going on here? So it makes you feel 552 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 7: like there's more to the story. 553 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 2: Death and deceit In Allancience is produced and reported by 554 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 2: me Maggie Freeling, with editorial consulting from Amber Hunt. Aaron 555 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 2: Case is our legal researcher. Our executive producer is Steve Fishman. 556 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: Our engineer and production coordinator is Austin Smith. Eric Axelrod 557 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 2: is our assistant producer.