WEBVTT - From the Archives: Paavo Järvi 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.240 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:42.000 from iHeart Radio. That's the NHK Symphony Orchestra conducted by 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:46.639 my guest today, Pavo Jarvey performing Wagner's dus Rheinhold The 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:51.320 Entry of the Gods into Valhalla. Pavo Yarvy is one 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.680 of the most in demand maestros in the world. He's 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.240 currently the chief conductor of both the nhkse Symphony Orchestra 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.360 and the tom Hall Orca to Zurich. Over his career, 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:07.600 he's also led orchestras in Paris, Frankfurt, Stockholm, Malmo, and 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.080 for the decade between two thousand and one and twenty 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:14.679 eleven here in the US in Cincinnati. Pavo Yarvey was 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:19.520 born into a musical family in Soviet era Estonia. His father, 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.920 Neme and his brother Christian are both also conductors. The 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.679 family defected to New Jersey in nineteen eighty when Pavo 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.080 was seventeen years old. As one of the most respected 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:36.040 conductors in the world, Pavo Jarvey travels a lot. When 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.760 the pandemic struck last year, he found some freedom in 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:40.479 staying put. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.759 It was one of those sort of amazing moments, because 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.040 first of all, we never thought it would be three months. 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.720 We thought, oh, it's going to be maybe a couple 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.000 of weeks, and then things will get better. And then 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:56.960 you realize it's going to be a bit more, and 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.480 then a bit more again, and then you realize that, Okay, 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.640 this is now indefinite. We don't know how long it's 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.280 going to be. And you know, something happens in your 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.200 brain when this happened. I'm sure you went through the 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.000 same thing. But I started. First of all, I was 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.280 kind of restless, and I started learning the things that 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.200 I was supposed to do, even though I knew that 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.880 they were going to be canceled. And then I slowly 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.480 started doing less of it. And then I started doing 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:31.320 a lot of nothing. And when you start doing nothing, 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.800 an interesting thing happens. At least happened to me. My 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:39.320 brain started working in an entirely different way. I didn't 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.280 live by the schedule first time in twenty five years 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.000 or thirty years. Even I didn't need to wake up 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.040 at eight, I didn't need to catch the train. I 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.680 didn't need to catch the plane or go to a rehearsal, 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.200 be prepared and then all of a sudden, interesting things. 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.440 You start thinking about different things. You know, why am 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.440 I doing all of this stuff? This is so great 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.280 to actually wake up in your own bed, and also 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.640 to know that next day and day after it's also 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.280 your bad. And then you start questioning these sort of 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.920 slightly philosophical things, like I am not so young anymore? 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.560 Even do I feel like a kid? How many years 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.160 of active life do I have? Do I really need 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:20.040 to be on a schedule like this for the rest 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:21.160 of my sort of. 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.760 The schedule you've been on for quite a while thirty years, Yeah, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:26.880 the schedule you But but it's interesting you say that 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.720 because there are a lot of people in the professional 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.120 world I live in, whether it's acting in film and 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.920 television or theater, and then maestros, soloists and so forth. 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.360 They're like race horses. And what the COVID did was 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.280 it allowed them to just go into the corral and 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.800 just eat some grass. And they said, well, maybe I 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.680 want to go running, but I don't necessarily want a race, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:46.280 and I want it to be competitive. I'd like to 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.600 go run on the beach. I'm a horse and I 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:50.880 want to go take a run for something exactly and 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.840 you realize that when you gave people these bunches of time, 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.920 they started this journey to get back to their true 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:58.520 nature of what it is they like. 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.640 I think exactly right, And I also think that you 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:06.320 don't have enough time in your schedule or in your 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.680 brain to really think. You know, it's a funny thing 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:10.960 because I'm thinking all the time, but I'm thinking about 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:12.880 things that I need to think about, the things that 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:14.840 you need to be prepared. I need to learn this, 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:17.520 I need to make that schedule. I have an interview 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.279 coming up, I have a television thing, I have a 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.480 recording whatever. But these are the things you have to do, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.919 and you have to because you have a deadline. But 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.279 the kind of thinking that happens when you have no 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.360 deadline is so much more valuable and interesting ideas start 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.400 coming and said, why didn't I ever think about this before? Well, 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.680 I didn't have time. I didn't have time. I was 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:41.960 with no room in sort of trying to catch up 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.919 all the time rather than just heavenly scheduled. Man. 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.200 One thing you don't realize about people in the classical 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.880 repertoire I set is these are people who know exactly 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.000 where they're going to be on August fifteenth, three years 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.640 from now. Absolutely, they've booked festivals and they've booked concerts. 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.880 These things are booked out so far. But I want 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.320 to pivot here and ask you as I was reading 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.880 about your biography, and I want to talk to you 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:10.240 about popular music and rock and roll music and the 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.960 boy from Estonia who had to smuggle cassettes of rock 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.880 music and then set up a drum set. Tell me 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.120 about your relationship and what I'm looking for really is 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.000 the scene between the two. Are you a man who 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.880 there was a sense of a duty because of your dad? 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.039 I remember watching in the documentary that you said that 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.559 your father had the classical music playing on the radio 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.080 or on an album or cassette all day long, and 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:36.880 in the middle of the family dinner, he go wait 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.279 and he'd want to hear the passage or whatever the 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.840 moment now was classical music something was a feed a 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.160 complete for you because of your dad. It was a 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.920 true passion. It was both And were you two different 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.520 people that craved two different sources of music? 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.000 I think the answer the first thing is that I 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.800 think the difference and the distance between these two types 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.680 of music is actually not so big. In fact, I 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.280 don't really see any distance. I don't think that there 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.560 is any difference between rock music, jazz music, or classical 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.760 music if because on the highest levels of it, it 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.120 is just as much hard work, and it requires just 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.920 as much talent and requires just as much skill. Very 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:21.280 specific to that particular field. For me, when I have 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:25.200 dinner with my girls, you know, we listen to Eta James, 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.320 we listened to you know, Billie Eilish, We listened to 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.520 a lot of this stuff. I even play some of 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.760 the rock music that they have no idea, but I said, 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.640 listen to this, and this is all. This is great. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.440 This is led Zeppelin, Leed Who fifteen and seventeen years old. 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.919 Some of the greatest names in music history, pop music 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.359 history are totally unknown to them, just like in films. 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.440 And it is very interesting for me to realize that 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.800 my girls actually know who bah was bad how and 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.880 chekhovs Gea. They don't know a lot of you know, 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.440 If you say who is Peter Gabriel, they say, I 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:02.799 don't know. And it's one of the greatest of grades, 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.159 you know. And so the distance between these two fields, 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.760 or the arts in general, is very short, and it's 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.920 not actually at all. For me. It was never that 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.280 I wanted to become a rock and roll drummer. I 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.720 just did it because I loved playing it. But I 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.840 was actually studying drums in school, and it was a natural, totally, 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:25.400 totally natural connection from just being a drummer, you know, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.400 like most of the bass players in symphony orchestras are 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:33.960 all sort of quietly fantasizing being the great rock players 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.760 in a rocky Yes. Absolutely, and so it's not actually 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.440 so different. And one other thing that's interesting that you 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.840 just said, I was never forced into music. I loved 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.880 the fact that I never had to make a decision. 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.880 I have two girls right now who don't know. They're 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.480 very talented, but they don't know what am I going 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.560 to do in life. I never had ever that question 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.040 because I wanted to not only to be a musician, 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.560 I wanted to be a conductor. Way why because my 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.680 father was a conductor. I loved my father. I think 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.920 he was having a lot of fun and we're very 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.520 close to this day. So it was done. It was 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.520 a done deal. I wanted to be a conductor, and 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.720 I never ever wanted to be anything else ever, And 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:25.280 so it is maybe a little bit unusual. But the 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.520 point of the story is that I think that if 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.600 somebody sort of makes it fun for you when you're 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.560 a kid, it stays with you. You know. If somebody 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.760 forces you, that's a different story. But I was never forced. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:42.719 Your family left Estonia. Your father conducted a piece, if 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.679 I read this correctly, without what we're considered the necessary 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:46.720 permissions back then. 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.360 Yeah, well the Arvo Credo and Credo is on a 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.760 religious text, and Arvo part was a kind of a 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.360 dissident composer. Now he's of course the legend, you know, 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.200 but my father was not supposed to do it, and 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.280 he did it anyway, and it was a huge scandal, 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.679 and it was basically it was bordering on a kind 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.800 of you might be deported or you might be sent 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:10.360 to someplace really cold. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.640 And that was happening when you were how old. 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:18.200 I was probably eleven something like that. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.079 Sow as a young child, that's when you head over 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:20.640 to New York. 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.280 No, we came to New York when I was around seventeen. 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.319 But that incident sort of started the whole term a 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.199 longer process, yes, a long process. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.439 Yes, So you came when you were seventeen, You come 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.880 and you talk about seeing as many people on the 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.640 highway coming from the airport into the city as we're 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.240 in your entire town or country, or we're in all 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.520 of Ustonia exactly right. And you thought, no one's going 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.040 to find me here, no one's going to I'm going 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:44.240 to get so lost here. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.400 You know, if you live in a country of one 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.559 and a half million people and you're isolated because it's 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.640 an Iron curtain Soviet Union, you go to Kennedy Airport 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.880 and then you take the highway and you see four 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.400 lanes this way and four lanes that way, and you 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.640 literally you haven't even seen it in films. I mean, 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.160 it was that it was this dramatic, you know, so 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.320 I thought, Okay, nobody will find me here. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.719 Now, obviously your father had this reputation. I'm sure when 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.959 he came to New York he was not without contacts, 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.720 without friends. He had people he could plug into here. 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.520 Correct, absolutely absolutely, And in fact, my father was a 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.320 very well known conductor back in a Soviet Union and 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.640 in Europe. But you know, since the Soviet Union was 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.360 closed and Iron Curtain was very much you know, a 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.920 real thing, the actual possibility to make contacts in the 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:40.120 West only came when you were allowed to travel, and 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.319 he occasionally was allowed to travel, and in fact he 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.720 even conducted in metropolitan opera. He conducted on Eigin and 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:51.760 met a lot of local Estonian expats in America. You know, 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.800 in New Jersey and New York has a very large 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.800 Estonian community. And you know it fun fact for you 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:04.520 to perhaps to notice that almost every big city in 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.320 the world, but also in the United States, has what 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.880 they call an Estonian house that was a little community 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.920 centers where Estonians would speak Estonian, would do the folk dancing, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:17.920 they would do the male choir singing, they would have 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:22.360 the newspaper published, they would have Estonian independence. Observed. It 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.400 was a little place in every in Chicago, in New York, 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.000 in Los Angeles, in New Zealand, in London, in Paris, 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.480 everywhere there was an Estonian house. So there are a 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.600 lot of Estonians scattered around the world. And one of 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:39.800 those people actually brought us and gave us refuge when 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:40.520 we came here. 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.600 When you get to New York, how does it begin 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.520 for you? You knew you wanted to be a conductor. You 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.000 eventually end up at Curtis and so forth. But what's 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.240 the beginning for you when you land in the United States? 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.160 How does your education begin? 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.640 The very first thing is the language, because when we 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:02.280 came to the United States, within speak an perhaps hello, goodbye, 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.400 nice to meet you, and I said that was about it. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.040 So this was the first thing which had to be 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:12.160 kind of dealt with. And so we lived in the 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.600 house with our Estonian family. Pustrums were their names. I 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.040 was seventeen years old. So we went to the high 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.319 school in New Jersey, and it was, in fact one 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.760 of those really nice moments where we became and slowly 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:27.360 learned the language through speaking with other kids or trying 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.600 to speak with other kids. And of course they never 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.480 knew what the Estonian is like. And they said, oh, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.160 there's two Russian kids, because I was my sister, two 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.360 Russian kids. And I said, no, no, no, We're not Russians. 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:42.440 Were Estonians. Oh, Astoria Queen's no. No. Estonia then already 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.160 applying to schools. I went to Juliel Pre College, I 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.720 went to University of I'm. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.079 Saying, is, how does that happen because of your father's 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:55.080 reputation proceed but then introduction is made, No. 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:56.760 Not at all. No, In fact, what you have to 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.080 do is that there's an audition that you send in 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.040 new application, and you have to do an audition. 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.160 You knew you wanted that, you knew you wanted Juilliard. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.360 I was dreaming about Juilliard, and I was. I got 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:12.000 into a pre college as a percussionist, and from. 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:13.640 There on the John Bonham of Estonia. 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.120 I think there are better drummers than me, much better 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.840 drummers than me in Estonia. But actually that is a 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:24.319 very very active rock scene also in Estonia. But mainly 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.480 Estonia is known for its classical music, of course, but 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.600 the rock and the pop music, and it's it's actually 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.920 very very big there, and it's a very good some 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:33.360 very very good artists. 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.400 And what was the pre college program at Julliard? How 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:36.560 did you find that? What was that like? 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.800 Well, first of all, I had to travel every morning, 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.480 get up at six from New Jersey, get a bus, 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.560 go to Port Authority terminal, then walk. But that was 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.720 a ford. It was a forty second street, the old 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:52.200 fashioned way, not the cleaned up gentrified Disney thing. It was, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.720 you know, and I barely spoke English, so I always 0:13:55.720 --> 0:14:00.200 remember the moment where I was walking from the the 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.120 terminal to Juilliard, and the girl came up to me. 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:05.960 A lady came up to me and said, do you 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:10.360 have time? And I was sort of struggled, and I said, yes, 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.040 it's seven o'clock am. And then she looked at me 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.680 kind of and walked away in disgust. I think she 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.319 obviously didn't have. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:19.720 Her phone mink jacket on. 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.360 She had, Yeah, she didn't really want to know what 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:23.000 time it was. 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.160 She wanted you to know what time it was. But anyway, 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.320 you made it up to sixty sixth Street, and when 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.000 you get there, what kind of work are you doing? 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.040 Well? First of all, we had theory lessons, we had 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:37.200 air training, we had solfish, we had a percussion the 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.080 major lessons. But the most interesting thing was always the orchestra. 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.760 It was a pre college orchestra. And the orchestra was 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.400 full of really wonderful, wonderful musicians, a lot of them, 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:48.440 or not a lot of them, but some of them 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.920 I'm still very closely connected, and they are now well 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:56.360 known musicians. And you would every time have an orchestra rehearsal, 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.840 and the conductor was rehearsing, and you are playing timpany 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.800 and you are kind of all in that world, you 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.440 can see what the conductor test tells to the strings, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.760 and you see how the brass players react to some comments, 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:10.800 and you know, all of a sudden, in the back 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.920 of the orchestra, you are actually doing much more than 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.720 learning how to play dimpany. You're learning how the process 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.520 of conducting is actually happening and what is important. How 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.760 what are the things that you like about the way 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.400 the conductor asks the musicians, What turns you off, what 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.680 makes you angry, what makes you laugh? Who is popular? 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.040 Who is lest you know it is it's a whole 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.600 process universe. Yeah, and that process is very much to 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.160 do with also human ability. You know, some conductors can 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.320 know everything, but they can piss everybody off in first 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.120 three minutes and nobody will want to hear what they say. 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.720 And other people they do they close off, Yes, they 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.800 close off, and they immediately build a kind of a 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:57.040 barrier between themselves and the conductor. And you know, there 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:01.120 is not so much love sort of loss between orchestral 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.400 musicians and conductors anyway, from the kind of older history 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.560 of the kind of tyrannical conductors, which of course now 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.920 is not the case anymore because the society is different, 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.960 but there is a kind of a built in distrust 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.960 and musicians always listen to the teachers, and teachers say, oh, 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.120 you know, conductors, they can be this, they can be that. 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.080 So it was an interesting kind of experience to see 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:24.640 how the process works. 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:32.720 Conductor Pavo Jarvey. If you love stories of life on 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.400 the podium, be sure to check out my conversation with 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:41.240 Finnish composer and conductor Esa Pekasomin. When he arrived in 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.840 the United States to conduct the Los Angeles Philharmonic, he 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:49.560 loved leaving behind the arrogance of the European classical music world. 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.680 When I started out in LA, I had this some 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.720 kind of residue from this European thing that Okay, I'm 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:01.600 here to bring some kind of culture to elevate you. Yeah, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.160 this culture is medicine kind. 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:04.760 Of thing, which is vile. 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.560 And it was an interesting process because I was talking 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.560 about things, you know, the way we used to in europeothdays, 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.280 and you know, with this kind of historic necessity of 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.560 atonal music and this and that, and people were very nice, 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.840 they said, oh, yeah, great, interesting, but how does it sound? 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.080 Asking these questions that are the obvious questions that everybody 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.040 should ask, but we went for some reason asking. 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.480 Hear more of my conversation with Maestro Essa pecasaloinon and 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.719 Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Pavo Yarvey 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.760 talks about the role he plays in the orchestra as 0:17:40.800 --> 0:18:11.240 the conductor. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:17.080 the Thing. This is the sacrificial dance from Igor Stravinsky's 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:21.040 The Right of Spring, performed by the NHK Symphony Orchestra 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.840 in Tokyo. The conductor is my guest today, Pavo Jarv. 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.720 Pavo Jarvey's home country, Estonia, has a population of just 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:58.080 over one point three million and a thriving classical music scene, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.960 in part thanks to the Arv family. Pavo Jarve's life 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.720 and work was featured in the two thousand and three 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:11.520 documentary Maestro. The film includes interviews with famous classical musicians 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.439 talking about Jarve's talent and explaining the complexities of the 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:21.280 classical music world. Violinist Joshua Bell goes so far as 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.040 to suggest musicians playing at the highest level do not 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.720 need a conductor. Pavo Yarby wouldn't go that far, but 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.000 he agrees his job is probably not quite what you 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:33.600 think it is. 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.960 Two things. Number one, I am not a decider per se, 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:42.320 because I don't believe in this. It's not an autocratic 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.920 for me. That doesn't work. What works is I invite 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.680 musicians to see my point of view. And when Joshua 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.879 or somebody else says that we don't need a conductor, 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.119 they are really explaining it to a kind of a 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.400 layman who doesn't quite understand the nuances, because what they 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:03.720 don't need is somebody to be the policeman in order 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.280 to organize everything, because on that level where he exists 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.439 and I exist in a new or philharmonic, and so 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.320 they can play the piece together and make sure that 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:18.720 it doesn't fall apart, absolutely without a problem, without a conductor. Now, 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.399 so one would ask why is the conductor important or 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.320 what's the role. I'll tell you my view of that 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.480 is this, somebody has to formulate a point of view. 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.959 That point of view varies from one conductor to another. 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.440 And so that is why we still do some standard 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:38.679 repertoire because some younger generation people see it in a 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.359 different light. But they have studied the score, they have 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.760 studied the tradition, and at the end of the day, 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.359 one hundred people cannot make up their mind to be 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.919 unified enough to formulate on the spot of the performance 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.880 and interesting enough point of view. Just getting through something 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.640 is not the goal. It's making something exceptional and finding 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.480 ways of making an old piece new. That's really the 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.679 conductor's job. The other thing is that you know most 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.359 of the people. If let's say you go to new 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.359 or Philharmonic, a fantastic orchestra, they have to do a 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:18.560 different program every single week. Every single week, they have 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:21.879 at least three new pieces that they need to master. 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.360 They play all the notes they need to be absolutely perfect. 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.199 They don't have time to study in depth all the 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:33.440 scores for three new pieces. Every research it takes years. 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.120 It takes years. If it's a job, that's a conductor's job. 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:39.640 But I would never say that this is a kind 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.800 of eye decide or I have a strong point of 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.479 view and then I invite them to see it. And 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:48.840 actually musicians always look for that. They look for somebody 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.480 who is going to open the door that illuminates something 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.360 in the piece and where a piece that they've played 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.479 a hundred times becomes maybe fun again. Because it has 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.680 a little front angle, maybe a slightly different point of view, 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.560 and you know there are a lot of subtleties that 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:08.040 can make a piece sound new. Well. 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.320 The reason sometimes I dwell on that topic is because 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:15.840 theater mirrors the classical repertoire, because very often you're doing 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.800 a revival of classic material. So the work of Chekhov, 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.840 the work of Williams, the work of Miller and O'Neill 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.199 are like all the great composers. And the joke we 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.280 always tell in the theater is we know the material works. 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.320 So if the show's a bomb, it's us. You know 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.000 we got it wrong. And the director's task is to 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.960 do what you're saying, is to sell them a clear 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.160 sense of what the film is they want to make. 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.240 How do I sell you on my idea and get 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:44.800 you to do what I think you should do? Now, 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.840 As I often say, for years when I was the 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.600 announcer for the Philharmonic, I'm the bat boy for the 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:54.000 New York Philharmonic. I'm not really a great pitcher or fielder, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.600 but I just love the game, so to speak. But 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.520 when I see, like, for example, a very easy component 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:03.800 of this or analysis of this is I'll go download 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:06.480 a piece, and let's use a very basic piece. I'll 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.359 get the adagio, the fourth movement of the mal or ninth, 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:12.520 and I'll see that High Tink plays it, and he 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:16.520 does it in twenty seven minutes. And then I'll see 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:20.000 that Mozelle with the Philharmonic does it in thirty one minutes. 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:24.680 It's four minutes longer. And so pace is of course 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.040 one component. And I want you to share with me, 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:32.080 is that in your realm, you decide or you propose 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:36.359 the pace of the piece, the emphasis, What are the 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:38.080 knobs and dials you're controlling. 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:42.560 One of the most fundamental choices that any performer has 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.080 to make is a choice of tempo. And it's an 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:49.480 interesting thing about tempo in general, because tempo can be 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:52.680 a metronomic understanding. You can put the metronome and say, okay, 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:54.919 this is sixty, so this is exactly how it is. 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:57.040 And that's very often how the click tracks and movie 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.520 soundtracks are made, because it needs to be absolutely precise. 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:03.479 And then there is a perception of tempo, which is 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:08.160 sometimes a great conductor can make a very slow movement 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:12.879 so compelling that it doesn't feel slow, it doesn't feel 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:17.760 like it never ends. And sometimes an inexperienced conductor or 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.520 a less talented conductor can do it even a little 0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:23.320 bit faster whatever, and it feels like it never ends. 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:25.760 And if you feel like, my god, this is dragging 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:28.359 and this is so boring, and then you look at 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.560 the timings and actually it was a faster performance that 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.480 should have been easier to listen to. And so the 0:24:34.600 --> 0:24:37.920 experience of knowing how to say something has a lot 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:42.399 to do with knowing within the whole process when to 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:46.440 speed up, when to take time. This material is repeating, 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:48.320 they have to go a little bit forward, and so on. 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:53.280 So it is really a perception of time that matters. 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.600 And very often in older conductors they get slower, but 0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:00.840 they get slower because they know how to that space. 0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:05.439 And very often the very young musicians they do everything 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:07.359 on adrenaline and say, oh, they're so exciting, you know, 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:11.720 But then it's all adrenaline and nothing else. You know. 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:13.679 Sometimes you look at the old actors and they just 0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:16.560 pause in the middle of the dialogue and it's like 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:19.920 there's a long silence, and it is it's filled with tension. 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:23.760 And in some people, in some cases, people are afraid 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:27.119 of being silent, they just need to fill every single 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:28.000 moment with a word. 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:41.440 Conductor Pavo Yarv. If you're enjoying this conversation, be sure 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:45.000 to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify 0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:49.080 or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, 0:25:49.200 --> 0:26:04.240 Pavo Yarvey talks about his favorite music to conduct. I'm 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:18.840 Alec Baldwin and you're listening to hear the thing. This 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:23.040 is Pavo Yarvi conducting one of Jean Sabelius's best known 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:27.360 works of false Trieste, performed by the Estonian National Orchestra. 0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:16.919 When the documentary Maestro about Pavo Yarvey was released in 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:19.720 two thousand and three, he was the music director of 0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:24.679 the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra. The film features many performances in 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:27.880 the orchestra's primary home, Cincinnati Music Hall. 0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:31.760 It is a fantastic acoustics And the thing with this 0:27:31.880 --> 0:27:34.879 hall is that it was built by one of the 0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:38.240 taft was a president in old times, and there's a 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:42.040 women's committee in old times. Women's committees got all these 0:27:42.080 --> 0:27:44.960 things done. If you were a president's wife, you collected 0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:48.359 the women of all the rich people around you, and 0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:51.960 they built all the costs, that's right, And so what 0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:56.200 happened is that this was built for conventions and concerts 0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:59.280 and May Festival, which was of course the Great Choral 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:03.200 Festival still exists in Cincinnati, and when I was their 0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:06.199 music director. I left it ten years ago, but I 0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:09.960 was astounded by how large it is. In three thy 0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:13.680 five hundred seats is a whole that is way too 0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:16.160 big for Cincinnati. Cincinnati is not a very big city. 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:18.159 It's a great city, but it's not a very big one. 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:22.360 So we started this campaign in trying to do something 0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:26.679 about this hole. So finally it was renovated. It looks 0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:30.240 the same, but it is a bit smaller. It's just 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:30.920 so gorgeous. 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:34.400 You have to say, redesigned the inside of the space, right, 0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:37.080 the same thing they're doing at Lincoln Center, Yeah, which 0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:39.880 is the building is landmarked. And I think I've said 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:41.680 this before on the show. We had Alan Gilbert on 0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:43.719 the show several years ago as he was leaving New 0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:47.040 York and Deborah Border, who I must say, I've never 0:28:47.080 --> 0:28:49.400 been prouder to work on a board than I am 0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:52.480 on the Philharmonic board, simply because of the genius of 0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:56.280 this woman. Debrah's the one who she knew whatever schedule 0:28:56.320 --> 0:28:59.040 they had for the renovation, she said, we're shut down 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:00.960 for the COVID. I think she bumped it up like 0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:04.080 a year. She said, let's blow the place up. Now 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:05.880 we're not in there and we're not going back and there. 0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:09.360 Let's just start. I'm just so excited because they are 0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:11.880 going to have the most beautiful space. They took four 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:13.920 hundred seats out of there as well. They took a 0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:14.640 lot of seats out. 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:18.400 You know, this is one of those strange phenomena that happened. 0:29:18.720 --> 0:29:21.680 Classical music somehow had to compete with the kind of 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:25.080 large show business events, and in a way, the music 0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:29.760 is not designed for that. You know, at two thousand seats, okay, fine, 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:32.440 three thousand and four thousand, it's just not the right music. 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:35.560 It's impractical. When you're in a town like Cincinnati, What 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:38.400 was it like? Explain to people where does the ensemble 0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:40.320 come from? Do you have to bring people there and 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:43.240 house them? Are their natives of Cincinnati? Many of them? 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:44.880 Where does the town come from? 0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:47.760 I'll tell you Cincinnati. This is one of the very 0:29:47.760 --> 0:29:50.920 funny things about the United States is that most people 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:55.760 in America don't even realize how much culture is actually 0:29:55.800 --> 0:29:59.280 in these smaller places in the Midwest. For example, you know, 0:29:59.720 --> 0:30:03.000 since Scinnati is I think the second third oldest orchestra 0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:05.280 in the United States, it was created by the same 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:10.760 guy who created Chicago Symphony. It was totally German, you know, 0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:13.520 Fritz Reiner, who was a music director for fifteen years 0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:19.040 the Isaie. First job of Stokowski was in Cincinnati. You know, 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:24.920 the amazing legacy of horror with Stravinsky, all the great 0:30:25.000 --> 0:30:29.080 conductors and great composers, they all went to Cincinnati. There 0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:32.120 are pictures and if you listen to, for example, one 0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:36.480 of the most iconic American pieces that everybody knows, the 0:30:36.800 --> 0:30:40.280 Fanfare for the common Man. You know, that is commissioned 0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:45.360 by Cincinnati Orchestra, and many, many, many, many other historic things. 0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:49.240 So if you start thinking about all this rust belt, 0:30:49.320 --> 0:30:52.800 the best orchestras in America are in Midwest. Okay, there 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:56.680 is of course New York Philharmonic, clearly that is exceptional. 0:30:56.960 --> 0:31:02.240 But if you look at Cleveland, if you look at Chicago, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, 0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:05.600 you know, this is not exactly the glamorous part of 0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:09.240 the United States, but this is an unbelievably cultured This 0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:13.200 is where all the German European immigrants went, you know, 0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:18.400 all the Californias and West Coast and also Texas. That's 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:21.760 already an afterthought that music came later there. But Cincinnati 0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:25.280 Symphony was an orchestra where Stokowski was a music director. 0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:29.360 He became the greatest Stokovsky of Philadelphia. Ryiner became the 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:33.720 great Fritz Reiner of Chicago Symphony. And so Cincinnati is 0:31:34.440 --> 0:31:38.120 really suffering from the basic image that the United States 0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:42.680 and Americans have about Ohio. Ohio, waya Wio? Did I 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.280 ever live Ohio? You know that this is exactly the 0:31:45.360 --> 0:31:49.560 whole thing. That is a kind of a you know, stereotype. 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:51.840 A prejudice. Toured the Big Five, well, a Big. 0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:54.640 Five truly are great, there was no question about it. 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:56.360 But in today's world. 0:31:56.160 --> 0:31:59.880 They have a lot of money. Yes, but I think. 0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:02.320 That more than money even, I think it has something 0:32:02.360 --> 0:32:06.160 to do with the legacy of long term relationships that 0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:09.720 they had with conductors. You have George Zell stayed all 0:32:09.760 --> 0:32:12.640 his life in Cleveland and clearly made sure that this 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:15.760 orchestra is unbeatable, and in. 0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:17.800 That hall and that hall in Cleveland. 0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:20.320 Well, right now, I would say that Severance Hall in 0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:24.239 Cleveland great as it is without any question, is the 0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:26.000 Cincinnati is not anyverse. 0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:29.400 In my life of listening to and collecting first on 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:35.040 CDs and then downloading this relationship between the maestro and 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:38.080 the ensemble. And I remember a Counzel who was the 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:42.440 Cincinnati Pops conductor for thirty years. Yes, he was there forever, 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:47.240 he was there forever, Eric, exactly, I was always devouring that, 0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:51.680 as you said, that conductor who stayed and developed that 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:56.200 rich relationship to TWA with Montreal Slatkin was Saint Louis 0:32:56.520 --> 0:33:01.440 Mata with the Dallas Symphony, Tilson Thomas and Francisco Asa 0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:05.160 Packer in la and so for you in Cincinnati. But 0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:08.480 getting back to this question about the performers or a 0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:11.480 significant number of them or any significant proportion of them 0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:14.080 natives of Ohio or they have to come in for 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:14.600 the season. 0:33:15.240 --> 0:33:18.360 No, they all become residents of Ohio once they get 0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:20.800 the job in orchestra. You know, getting a job in 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:24.000 American orchestra it is it's a nightmare. It is so difficult. 0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:26.440 I mean there are people who try for ten years 0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:28.960 and they don't get the job, and almost give up, 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:31.360 and they say, okay, one more audition and then then 0:33:31.400 --> 0:33:33.760 never again and they get a job finally. You know 0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:36.640 it is it's it's all behind the screens. It's extremely 0:33:36.760 --> 0:33:39.040 tough to get a job. So of course if you 0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:41.160 are a member of an orchestra and Cincinnati, you have 0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:43.400 to live there because you have to work every week. 0:33:43.880 --> 0:33:48.600 But originally all the musicians came from Germany. This was 0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:53.800 I mean the area where the whole is located. It's 0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:57.360 called over the Rhine. This it has, it has a 0:33:57.800 --> 0:34:01.880 local to go back there, has a beautiful architecture, and 0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:05.240 the one of the largest October fests outside of Munich 0:34:06.360 --> 0:34:08.919 is in you know, Kentucky, which is right next door. 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:11.719 So it's a really German and you know, and a 0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:16.279 certain cultural sort of DNA remains to this day. 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:19.040 And I thought the Greater's ice Cream was the number 0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:21.759 one reason to go to Cincinnati. I would ship I 0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:24.120 would ship Greater's ice cream to all my friends on 0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:26.879 dry ice I'd send them these cases and they'd all 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:29.040 be crying. They say, my god, this is the greatest 0:34:29.080 --> 0:34:32.239 ice cream I've ever heard. I facilitated their addiction to 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:34.480 Greater's ice Cream and Cincinnati, and now I have to 0:34:34.520 --> 0:34:36.240 go back there to a concert. 0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:38.840 Yeah. Well, the thing is that the I left the 0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:42.080 orchestra already more than ten years ago. But what I 0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:44.160 like very much, and I agree with you, is that 0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:47.760 these relationships that are long term are really worth something. 0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:51.680 And in a lymic business this is not so common anymore. 0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:54.160 People stay a few years and they go to another, 0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:55.280 you know, in all things. 0:34:55.280 --> 0:34:57.560 In all things, yeah, but I think one. 0:34:57.440 --> 0:35:00.480 Who really I love the people who build some who 0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:02.320 leaves something behind it. 0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:05.480 So this is a cliched question, but I can't help 0:35:05.520 --> 0:35:07.680 myself because you know, there's music I listen to that 0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:10.440 I enjoy, and there's music I listened to in the 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:12.359 classical reperte that I don't really care for. I mean, 0:35:12.360 --> 0:35:14.080 I'm not a big fan of Mozart. I mean the 0:35:14.200 --> 0:35:18.640 very chirpy kind of complex as it is mathematically as 0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:22.279 multi layered and dimensional as some of these composers are. 0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:26.120 As we move, you know, further toward Stravinsky and so forth, 0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.480 and things get a little more layered and non traditional, 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:31.480 there's nonetheless music I listened to, which is I mean, 0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:35.200 I remember I was doing a film and I told 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:36.920 them I said this before on the show. But forgive me, 0:35:36.920 --> 0:35:39.040 but I'm trying to impress you here with my passion 0:35:39.480 --> 0:35:41.160 because in my life, if I had my life to 0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:43.200 do over again, and I mean this, I swear to 0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:45.400 God in Heaven, if I had my life to do 0:35:45.480 --> 0:35:46.560 over again, I'd be you. 0:35:46.560 --> 0:35:48.719 You know. You told me that after I told you 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:52.520 that offstage in New York last time, and you came 0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:56.239 and you said, I want your life. Yes, I want 0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:56.600 to be you. 0:35:56.960 --> 0:36:00.120 To Blurn, to play, to play the piano, to all 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:02.440 of them have to master some instrument. Apparently they all 0:36:02.440 --> 0:36:06.560 play something, and then to become a conductor. Because I mean, 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:09.880 I'm racing from a show I was doing, or was 0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:13.080 shooting a film, and they contractually had to let me 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:18.360 leave work at five o'clock on four nights of one week. 0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:23.239 They knew in my contract that on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, 0:36:23.680 --> 0:36:27.120 I had to leave the show shooting a movie in 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:30.480 Brooklyn at five o'clock so I could go to Carnegie 0:36:30.520 --> 0:36:33.799 Hall to see the shots Capel do the Mallorcycle with 0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:37.680 Baron Boyme and Boulez, and I wanted to see them 0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:41.520 all four, five, six and nine. And I am late. 0:36:42.320 --> 0:36:44.919 I went home to change my clothes and I ran down. 0:36:44.960 --> 0:36:47.920 I'm going down Central Park West and Obama was in 0:36:47.960 --> 0:36:51.279 town and the cops had everything shut down. And by 0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:53.600 the time I go in the back of Carnegie Hall 0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:57.080 and get my tickets and run, and as literally as 0:36:56.719 --> 0:37:00.239 my ass hits the seat, I'm the last person and 0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:02.719 sitting in the hall. And as I sit down and 0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:05.040 I touched the cushion, the door opens and out comes 0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:09.239 Barrenburm to conduct the ninth. Now the music plays, and 0:37:09.280 --> 0:37:11.400 everybody's there to get what they want. I mean, if 0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:14.600 they're dying for this mallorcycle, And the tears are just 0:37:14.640 --> 0:37:17.719 streaming down my face, and the tears are streaming down 0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:19.799 the face of everybody to the left of me and 0:37:19.840 --> 0:37:23.040 to the right of way. And this music touches you 0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:25.600 in a way that nothing else can exactly. And the 0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:27.560 woman says that, and the woman says that in the documentary. 0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:30.440 She says, this is a music that that goes so deep. 0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:33.160 And I'm wondering, what are the pieces that you play 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:35.760 that touch you. I do know you can't pick favorites, 0:37:35.800 --> 0:37:37.880 But what's a piece or two that you play that 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:40.279 even you're surprise at how much it moves you. 0:37:40.960 --> 0:37:45.600 I would think that without any exception, it is something 0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:49.760 slow in a dodgo by Bruckner, a dodgo by Maler, 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:54.719 something that is introverted. Like if you listen to the 0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:58.080 fourth or the seventh Symphony of Sibelius, you have this 0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:02.440 feeling that you have this, this something is just creeping 0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:06.399 deep inside you. It is not it's not artificial, superficial, 0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:10.359 easy listening. Or Americas say to Tapper, I don't this 0:38:10.440 --> 0:38:13.640 doesn't do anything. Really. What does something to me is 0:38:14.080 --> 0:38:16.879 a slow you know, like the end of the marl 0:38:16.920 --> 0:38:19.160 A three, you know, the last movement. It is just 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:23.680 out of this world. And yeah, I think slow music 0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:26.720 that really just gets inside your. 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:28.400 Soul, which probably the seventh. 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.279 I love the seventh, but listen to the Adago of 0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:35.760 the of the of the eighth Bruckner eighth a dodgo 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:40.799 of the Brookner six, unbelievable, Bruckner nine a dodger. But 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:43.720 you know, Beethoven was the person in this ninth Symphony 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:47.800 who kind of created the prototype for this great adago, 0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:51.000 you know, the ninth, the slow movement, and every composer 0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:54.719 since tried to kind of outdo him, because it was 0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:59.160 the true master knew was really somebody who knew how 0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:02.080 to write a a great a dodger, and that is why, 0:39:02.360 --> 0:39:07.759 for example, Mather often ends his symphony in ninth definitely, 0:39:07.840 --> 0:39:12.320 but also the third with this incredibly so searching a dodger. 0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:17.120 And to me, slow music. Maybe I'm just getting old, 0:39:17.160 --> 0:39:21.880 but I always I always loved slow and contemplative music. 0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:25.120 I wanted to tell you something funny because you mentioned bottom. 0:39:25.400 --> 0:39:28.240 I'm sitting here in karantine in Tokyo in a hotel. 0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:33.000 He's upstairs. He's upstairs, and he wanted to come and 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:36.080 see me. They wouldn't let The people are so uptight 0:39:36.080 --> 0:39:39.360 here in Tokyo that they wouldn't let him into my room. 0:39:39.680 --> 0:39:42.719 And it is so funny because we are literally in 0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:44.919 the not in the same wing too. 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:47.640 So it's hard to believe that the six feet of 0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:50.440 concrete and steel are separating two of the greatest maestros 0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:53.919 in modern music today in the classical retor. You can't 0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:56.360 have a cup of tea together, well I am, I 0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:57.680 can't have a martini together. 0:39:57.920 --> 0:40:02.080 I had a battle already, you prepared with the glass 0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:05.640 of even I got two glasses. They wouldn't let him. 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:07.520 You'll have to toast over the internet. 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:11.200 So we did. We were literally doing what we're doing now. 0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:12.640 And this is a story. 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:15.239 You were married, you're not married now, and you have 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:19.839 two daughters. If your ex wife she was a violinist, 0:40:20.200 --> 0:40:23.200 a very good one, yes, and you met her where I. 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:25.480 Met her actually in London when I was well. I 0:40:25.560 --> 0:40:28.640 still live in London and between London and US, but 0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:33.920 she was studying in Royal Academy and we met in London. 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:37.440 Now I always tell people, and forgive me if this 0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:41.720 sounds odd, but that is I often find the talent 0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:45.080 is the greatest affordisiac. And if talent is the greatest 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:47.840 afford desiac. And I was a conductor working in the 0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:50.520 classical repertoire, I'd want to get married probably two or 0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:54.319 three times a month. You know, talented women who are 0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:57.600 playing these instruments are just they're everywhere. 0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:00.960 You know. This is one of those almost dangerous subjects 0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:03.520 in this diamon age. But the truth is exactly what 0:41:03.560 --> 0:41:08.080 you're saying. What you're saying is so right because you 0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:12.080 first of all speak the same language, you speak music. 0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:16.560 It's your passion, both of you nuances. It is so 0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:21.160 it is so obvious that most people in that field 0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:23.719 find their partner in the same field. And it is 0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:27.239 very difficult to even understand the idiosyncrasis and all the 0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:31.279 craziness that one needs to understand if you are not 0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:34.760 in part of that business. So this whole thing about 0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:38.239 you know, be careful workplace romances and all this. Yeah, 0:41:38.280 --> 0:41:40.840 on one level, I understand totally. But on the other hand, 0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:45.200 there is almost impossible to create a union that is 0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:46.240 really long lasting. 0:41:46.800 --> 0:41:48.200 More and more, I think what you're saying, if I'm 0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:50.680 hearing you correctly, which is what I've suspected, which is 0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:53.480 more beyond the chemistry between a man and a woman, 0:41:54.040 --> 0:41:56.280 or two women or two men for that matter. Beyond 0:41:56.280 --> 0:42:00.160 that chemistry, it's the chemistry of the arts exactly. It's 0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:05.680 just nothing like watching all those tens of thousands of 0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:08.600 hours that these people have are hundreds of thousands of hours, 0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:11.359 and they're up there and they're doing their thing, and 0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:13.400 you sit there and you watch them all doing the 0:42:13.520 --> 0:42:16.520 same thing together in service of the same thing. At 0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:18.520 the same time, I think to myself, this is the 0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:22.040 most intoxic anything in the world. Now you're there in Tokyo, 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:24.200 just are you doing something with NHK or who are 0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:24.680 you working with? 0:42:24.880 --> 0:42:27.920 NHK. I'm a chief conductor in NHK. I am a 0:42:28.000 --> 0:42:32.239 chief conductor in don Hale Orchestra Zurich Deutsche kame Philomony 0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:38.960 in Bremen. So geography is quite wild, and I have 0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:43.120 not been here because of the COVID now for thirteen months. 0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:46.279 So now I have decided, as a chief conductor, I 0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:50.479 have to come here and sit through this curantine because 0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:52.920 it's my orchestra, and I feel the loyalty and I 0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:54.280 feel the responsibility. 0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:56.920 Well, let me just say this to you. You are 0:42:57.040 --> 0:42:59.840 one of the most elegant men I've ever seen on 0:42:59.840 --> 0:43:02.560 the podium in my laftum. And you are a great, great, 0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:05.000 great music conductor. And I hope we see you in 0:43:05.040 --> 0:43:07.319 New York before too long. We are dying for you 0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:07.839 to come back. 0:43:07.880 --> 0:43:09.600 Please, thank you, Thank you very much. 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:18.280 Conductor Pavo Jarv. This is Pavo Yarv conducting the Estonian 0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:22.840 National Symphony in the Contus in memory of Benjamin Britten, 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:28.000 written by the world renowned Estonian composer Arvo part I'm 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:30.879 Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by 0:43:31.080 --> 0:44:29.759 iHeart Radio.