Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to All the Smoke, Episode one hundred. We got
Speaker 1: him for y'all. Man. When I thought of this show,
Speaker 1: this is one of the first people that came to mind.
Speaker 1: I what ways respected the game obviously, but I respected
Speaker 1: his mental more just the way he's approached life and
Speaker 1: the game. Me and Jack been chasing this nigga for
Speaker 1: two years and we finally kind of, man, but it's
Speaker 1: only right to hundred episode. We're here and we're in
Speaker 1: New York, and we got mellow here, man, So let's
Speaker 1: get right to it. Man. Eighteen years in the league,
Speaker 1: this COVID is kind of obviously, the pandemic is taken
Speaker 1: over the world. But what has it been like for
Speaker 1: you as a player in the health and safety protocols
Speaker 1: and all the stuff you have to do outside of
Speaker 1: actually having to getting to play the game. It was tough,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, going back to the bubble right with
Speaker 1: those health and safety protocols, It's like it was like
Speaker 1: four knocks down there, you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: you really had to be on it, and it was serious,
Speaker 1: Like I think a lot of guys didn't know understand
Speaker 1: what it was gonna be like. But it was serious
Speaker 1: down there that bubble as far as the protocols and
Speaker 1: all that. So I just followed protocols, man, then what
Speaker 1: I had to do and let everybody else do their job.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day. People don't understand how
Speaker 1: mental this game is. I mean, obviously when you get
Speaker 1: to the top level, is this is what allows you to,
Speaker 1: you know, sustain your longevity. How has it been? Um,
Speaker 1: you know, you had a point where you had to
Speaker 1: take a whole year off. It wasn't really by your choice.
Speaker 1: How did you stay mentally locked in knowing that you
Speaker 1: still have the ability and the skill to do it,
Speaker 1: but you wasn't getting the opportunity. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: like training is like for me, that's it became my lifestyle.
Speaker 1: So it's like I never was gonna stop training. It
Speaker 1: was just one point didn't know what I was training for.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, like what team I was
Speaker 1: gonna go to, what situation I was gonna be And
Speaker 1: so I'm just in the gym, just working on ship
Speaker 1: that I already know how to do. You know, what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, it's it's it's it's second nation to me.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know what situation I was going and
Speaker 1: so that was a hard part. The mental part, the
Speaker 1: tough part was like, damn, you don't know where you're
Speaker 1: gonna be at. You know, you start hearing because they
Speaker 1: let me go in November, like November early, so it
Speaker 1: was like de Sember fifteen. You don't get picked up
Speaker 1: January with the January fifteen wait till it was it
Speaker 1: ever teams or just this is the like the point
Speaker 1: in the sc or the season where they would look
Speaker 1: at we. I mean we was in the first ten
Speaker 1: games of the season, so we didn't even get a
Speaker 1: chance to see what the team can really be about.
Speaker 1: You know, you're still working out the Kings and people
Speaker 1: ain't playing preseason guys. It's hurt, so you trying to
Speaker 1: figure it out. But that whole yeah, it was just
Speaker 1: like I had to like just say fun it like
Speaker 1: I'm getting away from the game of basketball, because when
Speaker 1: you love something and they don't love you back no more,
Speaker 1: it ain't no point, it ain't no point to even
Speaker 1: giving put your own into it. So but I always said,
Speaker 1: I'm like you know, I'll keep my body right. I'm
Speaker 1: a train, I work out. My son had me right
Speaker 1: being around his teammates and going to AU tournament. That's
Speaker 1: what really got me motivated again to get back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I was like, I'm done with the game, the game.
Speaker 1: Don't let me know where I let the game. I
Speaker 1: can't deal with this, after all you gave to the
Speaker 1: game that I'm like seventeen in, like sixteen sixteen in
Speaker 1: at that point in town soon and I'm talking to people,
Speaker 1: They're like, no, I don't give I'm like, now, I
Speaker 1: ain't giving up, but it's written. You know what I'm
Speaker 1: saying that I'll be cool with walking away with the game.
Speaker 1: I'm set, I'm not straight. My family is good. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm such. We and Jack were big advocates the whole time.
Speaker 1: We run a while, but we're telling these people on
Speaker 1: these shows like what the fun is going on? Man?
Speaker 1: How's this dude not picked up? How's no one playing?
Speaker 1: But you know you're hung in there. You landed on
Speaker 1: your feet with the Portland Trailers. What has that experience
Speaker 1: been like for that organization? And then get a chance
Speaker 1: to play with Damon c JS. Well, it was so
Speaker 1: Portland really stepped out there and like, all right, we
Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna make it work. I was hesitant about
Speaker 1: that situation too, because I'm like, I just dealt with
Speaker 1: this situation. I don't really you know, you gotta let
Speaker 1: me know, put the sh it on the table at
Speaker 1: this point, because I really stepped away from the game.
Speaker 1: So whatever you bring into me got to be solid.
Speaker 1: Portland was real solid. Uh. They brought me in and
Speaker 1: I played it right away. And that's all I haven't
Speaker 1: wanted to do was just hoop man. I love the hoops.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be on the court that I'm playing
Speaker 1: with Dame, like with CJ. They oh, they opened their
Speaker 1: arms up, they open they they sitting up to me
Speaker 1: and their organization. So I had to be loyal to
Speaker 1: those guys, like I'm gonna give you what I got.
Speaker 1: You understanding Dame is a real one because Dame always
Speaker 1: knew like we don't care about what nobody else is saying,
Speaker 1: like we know you can play, I know you can play.
Speaker 1: I see you, I'll talk to you. So when you
Speaker 1: get somebody like that rocket with you, it makes it.
Speaker 1: It makes that situation is and you'll always want to
Speaker 1: play together anyway around. Yeah, I always was connected with
Speaker 1: Portland some way, somehow. I don't know why, but I
Speaker 1: always was connected with Portland. I mean I could have
Speaker 1: been there four years ago, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it didn't work out, but time. I always always
Speaker 1: told myself, like Dame will always go down as one
Speaker 1: of my top dogs. Forget basketball, guys, as a human being,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, that it don't get better
Speaker 1: than that. Yeah, we'll get back to basketball later, but
Speaker 1: talk to us about your upbringing. Uh, you know, Brooklyn, Baltimore,
Speaker 1: what was your with your childhood and teenager? Was like
Speaker 1: it was tough, man, it was. I mean it's every
Speaker 1: hook got the same story at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: But going from New York Brooklyn in the height of
Speaker 1: the early nineties, you know that that that crack ever
Speaker 1: hitting you know, it's it's like I'm growing up in that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know it, but I'm growing up in that.
Speaker 1: And then I go from that situation to be more
Speaker 1: it is like worse. It was worse, but I thought
Speaker 1: it was better. I got I had to add I'm
Speaker 1: out the projects now, but I'm in the house. I'm
Speaker 1: in the row house. I'm like, okay, bedroom a little bigger,
Speaker 1: another extra room, you know what I'm saying. I feel good.
Speaker 1: But I went to Baltimore to sum of ninety two
Speaker 1: and that was the heyday of you know, it was
Speaker 1: it was body more murder Land at that point in time.
Speaker 1: The pharmacy, you know what I'm saying. That the wire
Speaker 1: like all of that stuff started to hip. And I'm
Speaker 1: just a product of that environment, man, And I I'll
Speaker 1: never forget that ever. Ever. I would never forget that moment.
Speaker 1: Members of Brooklyn. As a kid run up in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: So Brooklyn, like I never left out of. I was
Speaker 1: born in red Hook, Brooklyn. So people who know red
Speaker 1: Hook is like it's like an island within the island.
Speaker 1: You know, it's one way in, one way out of
Speaker 1: red Hook, you know what I'm saying. So you don't
Speaker 1: go outside of outside of red Hook. I never knew Manhattan.
Speaker 1: I never knew the Bronx. I just never did that.
Speaker 1: I never went to the Bronx until I got older,
Speaker 1: until I was in the league. And I'm like, I
Speaker 1: ain't I still don't feel comfortable over here, and I'm safe,
Speaker 1: but I feel I still don't feel comfortable. So it
Speaker 1: was just hard growing up in Brooklyn, man as a kid,
Speaker 1: and you're seeing you know, I had everything though as
Speaker 1: far as experience. You know, people fighting, slab boxing, you know,
Speaker 1: dope dope, you know dope fings right there on the
Speaker 1: stupid walking outside, you kicking needles, you you running, you're
Speaker 1: running past you know, the sales over here to go
Speaker 1: play ball, and you see guns shots, and you just
Speaker 1: there's nothing. I'm told I became immune to that. M
Speaker 1: hm uh. You have a memoir coming up where tomorrow's
Speaker 1: aren't promised, coming out September fourteen. Talk to us about
Speaker 1: that project. And you know, obviously you're someone who doesn't
Speaker 1: really speak very much, and that was tough on you
Speaker 1: know what, I meant to really open up and be
Speaker 1: vulnerable and show your real upbringing in life. How was
Speaker 1: that for you? It was a tough. It was tough, man,
Speaker 1: because you start, it's therapeutic, so you gotta go back
Speaker 1: and and relive those moments and relive those stories. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to touch anything after I got drafted, because
Speaker 1: everybody knows that story. I really wanted to people. I
Speaker 1: really wanted to connect with the youngers out there to
Speaker 1: let them know, like what I went to sh it
Speaker 1: ain't sweet, Like you know, you don't just make it
Speaker 1: to the NBA like that. You don't just have eighteen
Speaker 1: years in the NBA like that. So I wanted to
Speaker 1: start from the beginning. So I started from the beginning,
Speaker 1: and I in the book the day I shook when
Speaker 1: I walked on the stage, David, I said, last, that's
Speaker 1: that's it, and all of that story from from Brooklyn
Speaker 1: to Baltimore, family cousins, ship that I had to go
Speaker 1: through should I had to deal with seeing ship as
Speaker 1: a kid that you ain't supposed to see as a kid,
Speaker 1: and you just you see it and you just walk
Speaker 1: on by. So I felt like, I like this was
Speaker 1: the timing of me writing that book. It was needed.
Speaker 1: He was the process about the years have changed, man,
Speaker 1: It was because again I wanted it to be so
Speaker 1: real and so authentically. I ain't hold no punches in
Speaker 1: the book. So I had to go back and act
Speaker 1: those stories, like make sure people validated the ship that
Speaker 1: I was saying, because saying it from my saying it
Speaker 1: from my point of view is a lot different than
Speaker 1: other people's point of view. So I had to every
Speaker 1: story was like yo, do you remember that? So they
Speaker 1: had to validate that, you know, because I ain't want
Speaker 1: nobody but like this snick of mellow Live, I adn't
Speaker 1: want that, so they had to really validate those stories.
Speaker 1: So that's why I took the I says a lot
Speaker 1: of tears during the time. It wasn't no tears, man, Honestly,
Speaker 1: it was just like like I can't believe I made it,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like Damn, Like, yo, you
Speaker 1: really people need to hit it because often too because
Speaker 1: of may you're still in it, but you never really
Speaker 1: get a tance to step back and like, damn, look
Speaker 1: where I came from, looking what I did, look at
Speaker 1: by accomplished, because you're still in the mid You're still
Speaker 1: in the mix. And so that's why I always found
Speaker 1: myself like going back and being in there. And it's
Speaker 1: like I never left. I stayed tapped into the you know,
Speaker 1: to my streets in my hood and my people because
Speaker 1: I was that and I never got a chance to
Speaker 1: like decompress on the upbringing, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I went from high school one year, one year, o
Speaker 1: kill one year, Syatuse, drafted to the NBA. I've never
Speaker 1: even it took me eight years ago back to watch
Speaker 1: the National Championship. I never watched the Challenge and actually
Speaker 1: my National Championship game because I just didn't have a
Speaker 1: moment to like sit and just sit still. So and
Speaker 1: I always try to go back and you know, get
Speaker 1: that love and get that feeling. Just those stories is man,
Speaker 1: That's what motivation keeps me going. Talk to us about
Speaker 1: your high school experience. Obviously one of the top players
Speaker 1: in the country started talented Catholic, eventually moved on to Oakhill.
Speaker 1: But what was your high school un most NBA players
Speaker 1: in any school history indeed alumni. Indeed, Oh, I mean,
Speaker 1: like I went to a Caffee school, right, So going
Speaker 1: to Caffee school, it was hard coming in there with braids,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. From the projects. Gotta take
Speaker 1: two trains a bus to get to school every morning.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm getting getting to school. Have it where
Speaker 1: you can get to school. And I really was. I
Speaker 1: was good, but I wasn't the top player in the
Speaker 1: country good. I was locally good. People knew me because
Speaker 1: I played in the streets and I played with my
Speaker 1: neighborhood wherever my neighborhood went. That's what we was playing with,
Speaker 1: played for money, whatever whoever you was, we was rocking out.
Speaker 1: So when I got to Townson, Cal, I bought that
Speaker 1: with me. So by the time I get to my
Speaker 1: junior year, they kicked me out. You know a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't know that I got kicked out of
Speaker 1: Times of Catholic my junior year because I have braids.
Speaker 1: They were just you know, they was it was racism.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying that I didn't know that
Speaker 1: I was a part of the racism at that point
Speaker 1: in time. And you know, you you're walking around and
Speaker 1: you know, the moms senior and then the archdioce is
Speaker 1: looking at you like what you gotta take your help.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I can't do that. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. My toe was crooked. You got detention, like
Speaker 1: they was picking on me. So by time my junior ended,
Speaker 1: I had so many detentions accumulated that I had to
Speaker 1: come back that summer in order to get my transcript,
Speaker 1: my report card. And I'm like I'm done with that,
Speaker 1: Like I ain't about to come into summons scrub tables,
Speaker 1: and you know, wastch books, so I'm not man something time.
Speaker 1: So I got kicked out. They kicked me out. I
Speaker 1: had to go to someone school anyway, and then I
Speaker 1: ended up at Old Kill, which which really changed my
Speaker 1: whole life. ABCD camp I specially the experience. I gotta
Speaker 1: take a drink on now cheer to mellow being in
Speaker 1: a hun episode. I don't even drink red one. But
Speaker 1: for Melow you know, A b C D camp, Man
Speaker 1: was like, it was like Golden Hoops. Man, It's like
Speaker 1: you there, and it's like Who's who? Like who I'm
Speaker 1: matched up with this whole week? But I was I
Speaker 1: was a late bloomer, right, so I had to go
Speaker 1: to summer school because of my transcript, so I couldn't
Speaker 1: go to Nike camp. They had me on they had
Speaker 1: me on the waiting list, and Nike Camp had me
Speaker 1: in the waiting list at Nike Camp. People don't know
Speaker 1: that either. Five Star Camp. I went to five Star.
Speaker 1: That was like one of the only camps that I
Speaker 1: went to. Uh, and then I go to ABC but
Speaker 1: I'm not O kill O Kills at Jordan's school, a
Speaker 1: b C D is and Sunny is like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: just I need you for one day, Just come for
Speaker 1: one day. I'm like, nah, like I'm Jordan's out, I
Speaker 1: can't wear didas I ain't. You know, no disrespect, but
Speaker 1: at that point you can do it. And Sonny was like,
Speaker 1: I said, the only way I would come if you
Speaker 1: bring my man with me. My man gotta play because
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get him off the block and get
Speaker 1: him in school, which which turned out good. And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got I'm wearing my Jordan's likes. I was the
Speaker 1: only person ever in the history of ANBC D can't
Speaker 1: to where Jordan's There was a a j six days
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget that. But they try to set
Speaker 1: me up. Lenny Cook first Lebron at night, Framon Felt
Speaker 1: the next day. You know what I'm saying, all these
Speaker 1: big time players, I'm like, let's get it, like this
Speaker 1: is my coming out part, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So I only got a chance to play against Lenny
Speaker 1: that one game and the rest is history. After that,
Speaker 1: talked to us about good because I don't think obviously
Speaker 1: he's had his story, but I don't think people unless
Speaker 1: your basketball head know how good Lenny Cook was. Lady
Speaker 1: was good Man he was. He was six eight, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, long arms, quick feet, quick hands.
Speaker 1: You know. He was a big guard, the point guard,
Speaker 1: six eight point guard, pick you up, full court, rowdy,
Speaker 1: you know he was. He was. He was one of them.
Speaker 1: He was. He was cut from where we was coming from,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So I respected him for that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know him like that, but I respect to
Speaker 1: him because I see him like, oh, this is this
Speaker 1: is the type of time I need, Like you know,
Speaker 1: I need this type of time just gonna bring something
Speaker 1: else out of me. I played against that. So then
Speaker 1: he was Lenny was a real job. I give him that.
Speaker 1: When did you and Lebron start playing each other and
Speaker 1: start developing a friendship. So Lebron is one year, one year,
Speaker 1: So we played and um when I get the old
Speaker 1: kill brought him, had beat o kill the previous year,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, I gotta play against him, like
Speaker 1: it's on the schedule. We got him, we gotta make
Speaker 1: it happen. I knew nothing. I ain't never see him
Speaker 1: none of that because back then he was a pamphlet
Speaker 1: telling what I'm saying. There's no internet. You didn't know
Speaker 1: who it was you seen him in the gym. It
Speaker 1: was Bob Gimmon's report. You know what I'm saying, So
Speaker 1: well in the box down the number one player. So
Speaker 1: that's who you're going after at that point. So we
Speaker 1: get the jersey and we planned a prime time shootout
Speaker 1: and he coming to the hotel and we're coming in
Speaker 1: the hotel and he's like, yo, you mellow, like you know,
Speaker 1: you mello him like yeah, And we sat on the steps.
Speaker 1: It was All Star weeking in Philly too, so we
Speaker 1: sat on the steps for hours the night before the game, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know nothing about you, dog, you don't know
Speaker 1: nothing about me. And we sat there for hours just
Speaker 1: kicking and just talking, man, and we clicked from that moment,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. We just felt like we
Speaker 1: had similar backgrounds. You know what I'm saying. You're single parent,
Speaker 1: home broken family, growing up in the hood. You know,
Speaker 1: it's that was a similar story. So we we connected
Speaker 1: all of that before before basketball. That's that's then. That's
Speaker 1: where you do that. That's where you especially with two
Speaker 1: players being at the top like that, y'all dug into
Speaker 1: each other as people. Absolutely basketball, So I can you
Speaker 1: can it's easy to understand now your relationship, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I was looking. I was looking for some type of
Speaker 1: relationship like that with somebody. Yeah, and he was looking
Speaker 1: for that as well. So we came in each other's
Speaker 1: lives at the right time. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: We was both looking for, you know, that brotherhood that
Speaker 1: you know, that that brother that we can rely on
Speaker 1: and talk to. And we had that. We that ship
Speaker 1: clicked right away. Besides Sarah's strap beside Syracuse, who else
Speaker 1: was gonna run to get you? In college? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: committed to like five schools trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Committed because I was just happy, Like what, I'm walking
Speaker 1: around school with the with the book bag full of
Speaker 1: letters in my bag every day. It's a new school,
Speaker 1: like I'm coming. But I committed. I committed early to
Speaker 1: Syracuse my junior year on my birthday. That was like
Speaker 1: my birthday present to me. And I was still at Tewson.
Speaker 1: So when I get the old kill, I'm like, you
Speaker 1: get millions of level. This is what I'm saying. When
Speaker 1: you're walking and you're walking the gym, every college coach
Speaker 1: in Americans in there, so they looking at me like
Speaker 1: why are you signed with while you commit to Serracuse
Speaker 1: and they're like, you know you only committed, you know
Speaker 1: you did a you don't have to go. You don't
Speaker 1: have to go. So I'm saying that and We're playing
Speaker 1: in NBA scounsels in there. Every practice the practice was
Speaker 1: like game. It was better than games. So at that point,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, let me just let me just try
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna open it back up. And then I
Speaker 1: like I committed to like I went like Georgia, Georgia Tech.
Speaker 1: Jerry Jack and Chris Bosh was going to down to
Speaker 1: the Tech, so you know that that was one of
Speaker 1: the schools. Jay Wright was just at just got the
Speaker 1: job at Villanova. So I wanted to go to Villanova,
Speaker 1: but they already had people. Carolina already had people in
Speaker 1: my and my spot for guy who was there, Wald
Speaker 1: Williams was there at that position your senior year in
Speaker 1: high school O two my saying it was oto right.
Speaker 1: So then Sarachuse was like they had Preston Shumper three
Speaker 1: and he was leaving. So I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: can come right in and play right away. And that's
Speaker 1: why I really stuck with. So what was that experience
Speaker 1: like I mean, you guys caught magic in the bottom.
Speaker 1: You who King Warwick with a Jerry McNamara. You guys
Speaker 1: made that run and uh, you know, you're one year
Speaker 1: in college you win the championship. I ain't never think
Speaker 1: I would do that. Ship. I'm gonna be honest. We wasn't.
Speaker 1: We was a good team, but I ain't ever think
Speaker 1: we was gonna be that good, you know, like, you know,
Speaker 1: we to go seventeen and oh at home. We never
Speaker 1: I never lost in the Carrier though. People don't talk
Speaker 1: about that enough. Yeah, it's hard to do, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So especially the Big East, right and
Speaker 1: the Biggest that's when the Big East was that that
Speaker 1: point in time, this is the Big East, you know,
Speaker 1: the heart of it. So being that Serri choose and
Speaker 1: just that whole experience. Man, we just clicked. Like it
Speaker 1: was just something that that clicked. We wasn't doing nothing special.
Speaker 1: We clicked. And then once we started feeling more confident
Speaker 1: about ourselves, we can beat this team, we can beat them.
Speaker 1: Oh should we just beat Missouri? It was number five.
Speaker 1: We just beat Georgia Tech. It was Okay, We're going
Speaker 1: into the tournament and I'm like, look, all we gotta
Speaker 1: do is get hot at the right time. That's all
Speaker 1: it takes. That's it. And at that point it was
Speaker 1: like we we knew we at that point, we knew
Speaker 1: we was gonna win in that tympiship. What what was
Speaker 1: your what was your mental I mean, obviously the NBA
Speaker 1: is the goal, but College of Pits stopped you ever
Speaker 1: think about jump stares the league? When you dig into
Speaker 1: the college? Was it one and done? Like what was
Speaker 1: your mind set there? I could have came out of
Speaker 1: high school. But again, like people don't understand, like NBA
Speaker 1: never was my goal, Like it never was. I just
Speaker 1: felt like we can never I can never reach that.
Speaker 1: And you hear so much, oh you hear the stats
Speaker 1: or one out of every thousand. You know what I'm saying. There,
Speaker 1: there's no chance in hell I'm gonna make the league.
Speaker 1: So I ain't even thinking about the league. Let me
Speaker 1: just get to college. So when I got to college,
Speaker 1: I'm on campus. I'm like, I never want to leave
Speaker 1: this ship. Like Sarah Sarah choose Big eas It's popping
Speaker 1: up here like I'm staying. And if you go back
Speaker 1: to the footage, even like my press conferences, I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: like forget one more year, Like I thought, you stay
Speaker 1: in school for four years, Like I'm coming back the
Speaker 1: Bay Howard Like, man, if you don't get your ship campus,
Speaker 1: we ain't trying to hear that. So he really kicked
Speaker 1: me off the campus man rightfully? So right so makes sense.
Speaker 1: What was most memorable about your year year old three
Speaker 1: draft class? I think the fact that we all like
Speaker 1: supported each other, you know what I'm saying. Like me
Speaker 1: and Braun knew each other first we came to New
Speaker 1: York for the drive d Wade, you know, we were
Speaker 1: linked up with d Way and it was just like
Speaker 1: at that moment, just us three, just moving. So we
Speaker 1: felt like we always had to hold each other down
Speaker 1: no matter what, you know what I'm saying. And I
Speaker 1: always felt like even though d Wade's older, I always
Speaker 1: felt like big brother, you know what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: was the I was the gamest of the other bananim
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Like it was like anything
Speaker 1: even when we was younger. I used to feel like
Speaker 1: I had to protect Braun and in a sense when
Speaker 1: I say protect him me and like if I'm watching
Speaker 1: this game and they found him hard I felt like,
Speaker 1: I gotta get back. I'm gonna kill him the next game,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Like I got him the
Speaker 1: next game, you know what I'm saying. So I always
Speaker 1: felt like that. So that was always our dynamics with
Speaker 1: that old three class. And then on top of that,
Speaker 1: yet Chris Boss you know, went went down to Toronto.
Speaker 1: We had David West. So it was a lot of
Speaker 1: guys in our class that spread out. We had a
Speaker 1: deep class, but those three or four guys we were connected. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever thought about it. You
Speaker 1: mighty in passing, but obviously Detroit skipped over. You took Darko.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think because that was a good Detroit
Speaker 1: team obviously went on in one championship, you ever think
Speaker 1: of that my career right insert him, it was I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you what, man, I like to this day,
Speaker 1: I still think about that really look yeah, hell yeah,
Speaker 1: Because I'm like they promised me. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You know we're taking you were taken. I'm talking all
Speaker 1: the way up to draft day, I understand we're taking you.
Speaker 1: So in my mind, like I'm going to Detroit get
Speaker 1: the Chauncey then change all these guys there. She came
Speaker 1: in the middle of the year. I mean she got
Speaker 1: traded and that's what really put them over the top.
Speaker 1: But it was like, yo, you canna share time with
Speaker 1: Like Tasha, I'm like cool, like I ain't you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna come and do my thing, but I don't
Speaker 1: know how locked my ship time will help, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, I'm just coming and do my thing.
Speaker 1: And then they wanted and I'm like, my luck, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like if I'm I understand, If
Speaker 1: I'm now, I think we want to they win another one,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like I I wouldn't jump
Speaker 1: out this and were three people, but I think we
Speaker 1: go back to back. If if I'm there, because that
Speaker 1: second year for me would have I would have learned
Speaker 1: from those guys. It was all vets and I would
Speaker 1: have learned from those guys in the way that that
Speaker 1: second year coming back, I would have been a totally
Speaker 1: different player. But you know, everything happened happened for a reasons. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I still think about that ship though to this day.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, because I want to say, then we
Speaker 1: have ripped on the show and ripped or he was
Speaker 1: coming to We drove from b Moore to Philly Man,
Speaker 1: My man, Babe. We drove from b More than Philly
Speaker 1: Man to go watch It was Detroit versus Philly, and
Speaker 1: Larry Brown had already took their job at Detroit, but
Speaker 1: you're still coaching Philly. So we're in the back and
Speaker 1: he's like, Yo, we're taking you, Like we're taking you
Speaker 1: so you know, I'm driving back up ninety five, like, Yo,
Speaker 1: we're going to Detroit. The whole hood we Detroit. So
Speaker 1: I was like, that's just still. That's just still sit
Speaker 1: with me to this day. That's crazy. So you end
Speaker 1: up laying it in Denver, Um, What was that? Like?
Speaker 1: I mean, you're a street really a East Coast dude
Speaker 1: coming out west. I go to Denver. I'm like, yo, damn,
Speaker 1: I ain't never seen no mounds before. Like I ain't
Speaker 1: never seen no snow caps like that before, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So it was hard, but I knew,
Speaker 1: like you just felt the energy going into Denver, like
Speaker 1: they threw the ball at me, it's yours. And I
Speaker 1: was nineteen when they did that, so I ain't thinking
Speaker 1: about no pressure. It was just like this is mine.
Speaker 1: Brown had Cleveland the way it was in Miami. Boss
Speaker 1: was in Toronto. Everybody had their own situation. It wasn't
Speaker 1: no teaming up back then. Y'all know that, it wasn't
Speaker 1: no Big three, but it wasn't none of that. You
Speaker 1: held your own team down back then. So I jumped
Speaker 1: out to a great start in Denver. You know, we
Speaker 1: made the playoffs seven years straight. My first year. I
Speaker 1: made it. Bruno may make it. So it was like
Speaker 1: I love you know, I love Dever. Let's we want
Speaker 1: a little bit because you should have won Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year. I should have quite as Kip. I should
Speaker 1: have quite as kill. We could have did Cole, could
Speaker 1: have did Cole. Yeah, I thought it was gonna be Cole.
Speaker 1: Now they did the jail like that, Jake kiss. I
Speaker 1: really thought, okay, And that was part of our story too,
Speaker 1: like we're about to be code. Yeah. Were talking about that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, this is now. I see how
Speaker 1: my career is gonna go. I see how they're gonna
Speaker 1: look at me. I see what time it is. Just embraces.
Speaker 1: I got embraced right hand too. Who are your vested
Speaker 1: with the Nuggets. I know, big shot, big big shot
Speaker 1: came later, right, So I had shout out stay. I
Speaker 1: had Stacey, my big bro. That's I had Stacey. I
Speaker 1: had k Mart, stacyag Man. I had for Sean Lennard,
Speaker 1: Sean Lenny can be there yet Canby was dead. Andre Miller,
Speaker 1: those was my Those was my vets. Arrow Boykins, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Came after that, So I had
Speaker 1: I had some good vets. And you know, we was
Speaker 1: as y'all know, we was the Thuggets back then. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. We was. We was a hardcore,
Speaker 1: like even though when when did we still have fun
Speaker 1: playing the game of basketball. You wasn't coming in Denver,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. You couldn't breathe. And there
Speaker 1: was something like, yeo, let's get them to the fourth quarter. Man,
Speaker 1: we get the fourth quarter. We went dropping That first
Speaker 1: quarter is always six minute walk. You the tap out,
Speaker 1: were just blowing our lungs off the night before two.
Speaker 1: So you come in there with the extra absolutely air advantage.
Speaker 1: They get up to fifty point league quick and they're
Speaker 1: like this too there and you know we we we
Speaker 1: started that that running gun paste like that. You know,
Speaker 1: say y'all caught it, y'all, y'all had it to it
Speaker 1: in g state. But you know we was that running
Speaker 1: gun style, you know, trying to score in seven eight seconds,
Speaker 1: you know, get the ball up the court like that
Speaker 1: was our m O two thousand nine Western Conference files
Speaker 1: against Code. You guys are right there on the doorsteps
Speaker 1: about that match up. The greatest man. I just that was.
Speaker 1: That was my moment where man cold became. Before that,
Speaker 1: we went to Olympics. Before that, we became very close,
Speaker 1: but we became close on something like some disrespectful ship
Speaker 1: like you know, you know Code man going at your
Speaker 1: next elbowing. You had my braids back then too. So
Speaker 1: he touching my head like y'all, don't I don't touch
Speaker 1: my head, like you know what I'm saying, I don't
Speaker 1: touch me no more dog. And you know he's smirking,
Speaker 1: and you know he's doing his little ship elbows and
Speaker 1: oh nine came and it was like, I mean, we
Speaker 1: hugged before the game. He was like war, it's war,
Speaker 1: and I said it's war, Like, let's let's get it
Speaker 1: like it ain't you ain't gonna be nothing easy and
Speaker 1: I just remember him. He always would tell me, I'll
Speaker 1: call you in the fourth because they're they're gonna call,
Speaker 1: They're gonna make some calls on me. They ain't gonna
Speaker 1: call him to me in the fourth, And I just
Speaker 1: usually try to I usually try to beat him up though.
Speaker 1: You know, I was bigger than him, so I used
Speaker 1: to trying to beat him up, be physical with him.
Speaker 1: He come back elbowed me. I come back elbow on him.
Speaker 1: He laughing talking about that's all you got. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It was just pushing my button to see,
Speaker 1: well I stand that. You know what I'm saying that
Speaker 1: that's how like we grew man, Yeah, we all we
Speaker 1: we we came who we are. Talk about your relationship
Speaker 1: not in basketball, but off the court. Because he heard
Speaker 1: him speaking the interview, that's kind of where he was
Speaker 1: kind of checking your temperature. He was kind of person
Speaker 1: were you know because you you hear ship. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, you hit it. And at that point
Speaker 1: old four or five oh six was like those are
Speaker 1: the I was still in the streets that those days.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, So you hear all the stories.
Speaker 1: D was gonna it was just an old bunch of
Speaker 1: project at that day, and he was checking me like
Speaker 1: he wanted to see if I really was that, and
Speaker 1: he wanted to see if I was gonna fold, if
Speaker 1: I was gonna stand tall. In the minute that I
Speaker 1: stood tall, he hit me, I'm cracking them back, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Hit me and get him cracking
Speaker 1: him back. He form stepping over him, Get up, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So when he catched at it,
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I see what type of your bully?
Speaker 1: Like that's when he started calling me a bully. At
Speaker 1: that point in time. He respected that. There was no
Speaker 1: question he respect He just has a weird way of
Speaker 1: getting into it though. Yeah, he had a weird way
Speaker 1: of just you know, he had a weird way just
Speaker 1: be like, yo, yo, you're nice. He might not even
Speaker 1: never say that period. To the in the papers, he will,
Speaker 1: but to you he won't. He pulled me to the
Speaker 1: side in the Olympics and said, you're bad motherfucker like that,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, because he knew what it
Speaker 1: was already, and it took him forever to get that.
Speaker 1: So for me as a young player four or five,
Speaker 1: four years in the league. At that time, it's nothing.
Speaker 1: You want nothing more than somebody like that to come
Speaker 1: to your mother. You know what I'm saying. That was respect.
Speaker 1: So he did that. I knew it took a lot
Speaker 1: out of him to tell me something like that. So
Speaker 1: I took that, and you know, I built on that.
Speaker 1: Although you guys never got over the hump, you guys
Speaker 1: are really special. Team can be Billups Martin Jr. We
Speaker 1: remember most about those teams. Swiss Man. They shout out
Speaker 1: the Swiss Man best bro we was. We I just
Speaker 1: remember us having fun like we just had so much
Speaker 1: fun on the road. You know. We was road warriors, man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know we party like people don't know. Man, y'all know,
Speaker 1: but y'all party it too. The Nuggets. We was partying
Speaker 1: every night. We was partying. Hey, I will have a
Speaker 1: party over there. Came off with having party over here.
Speaker 1: I got a party over there. It was just like
Speaker 1: we're tapping in and we're gonna we're gonna party and
Speaker 1: we're gonna come play and we're gonna come work the
Speaker 1: next day. And we had that. We had that understanding
Speaker 1: take us through the two thousand eleven trade back home,
Speaker 1: we need to have another drink to that. Yeah, two
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, Contrary to anybody, everybody believed I didn't run
Speaker 1: to leave Denver. You know what I'm saying. I never
Speaker 1: told people that, but I never wanted to leave Denver.
Speaker 1: But it's like they put my back against the wall.
Speaker 1: We go to the Western College Finals at oh nine.
Speaker 1: What you're supposed to do? Put the bill on that play,
Speaker 1: don't don't mess the corps. They traded. They got rid
Speaker 1: of Dante Jones, right and on that team do peace
Speaker 1: on that team were to Dante Jones, They're like, when
Speaker 1: you resigning, Chauncey, we're about to trade j R. K Martin.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Contracts is up and the
Speaker 1: lockout was coming. So I'm like, I'm not about to rebuild.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna rebuild after we don't went to the
Speaker 1: Western Conference Finals. Were sposed to be building and rebuilding,
Speaker 1: and I went to him, I'm like, look, I don't
Speaker 1: want to go, but if y'all gonna rebuild, it's time
Speaker 1: for me to go somewhere else and New York. New
Speaker 1: York was a destination, but I had to go through
Speaker 1: so much. Jersey was at the time, you know, Jersey
Speaker 1: would come because they had all the picks. George Carl
Speaker 1: wanted me to He wanted me to go to Utah.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not. I'm stay him. I played through the lockout.
Speaker 1: I ain't about to go to Utah for no reason
Speaker 1: because he wanted at the time, he wanted um young
Speaker 1: boy Derry Favors. He wanted the young boys. So man,
Speaker 1: after that trade, I mean, I better have a trade
Speaker 1: clause because anything happened, you know, says I come to
Speaker 1: New York and just that Amari was here. He was
Speaker 1: rolling you know, he came that half a year that
Speaker 1: year before me, um Ray Felton was here. They was
Speaker 1: rolling them. They were supposed to be all stars together.
Speaker 1: And I remem my guy married in New York and
Speaker 1: they come to the wedding and I remember I'm on
Speaker 1: the boat and went the fund the Statue of Liberty
Speaker 1: and they started playing uh from New York with with
Speaker 1: with jay z and and I'm just like in the
Speaker 1: front of the Statue of Liberty and I had I said, y'all,
Speaker 1: I gotta come, like I gotta get I gotta get
Speaker 1: to this. You know what I'm saying. I'm seeing the
Speaker 1: energy in New York, and I'm like, if I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go anywhere, I gotta be, I gotta be on the
Speaker 1: biggest stage. I gotta perform on the biggest stage. Because
Speaker 1: my time in Denner was already already peaked in Denner.
Speaker 1: And you know they small market teams like that, secondary
Speaker 1: market teams like that, it would have took them a
Speaker 1: long time to really get the pieces. Nobody was really
Speaker 1: coming to Denver like that. They did a great job
Speaker 1: for an our team. So what was it like me
Speaker 1: to come home and jump in the mix and then
Speaker 1: you guys are in the playoffs your first two years?
Speaker 1: What's that although you guys losing the first round? What's
Speaker 1: that energy like to come back home and then you
Speaker 1: you know, you got to the hometown team. Wasn't it
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't nothing like it? And I tell people
Speaker 1: all the time, you ain't seen nothing or experience nothing
Speaker 1: until you're in the garden when it's rocking. Do you
Speaker 1: understand when it's rocking, is no better place in the
Speaker 1: world to be in. So for me to that's home
Speaker 1: for me every night. But on the flip side of that,
Speaker 1: I had to perform that you ain't coming here because
Speaker 1: let you know, you know what I'm saying that, especially
Speaker 1: you the guy, especially me. You know, we gave away
Speaker 1: the whole team for you know. You know what I'm
Speaker 1: saying that you give me the whole day. We got
Speaker 1: to come in the ball. So I embrace that. I
Speaker 1: wanted that pressure, and I also knew a lot of
Speaker 1: people didn't want that coming to New York. Name with
Speaker 1: that pressure. So two thirteen, you guys win fifty games,
Speaker 1: beat Boston and six fall to the Pacers. You kind
Speaker 1: of like, you guys are making progress at that point,
Speaker 1: we're making progress. It's like I feel like I won
Speaker 1: the championship after after we beat Boston. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, we beat them. We supped to sweat on
Speaker 1: that year. You know what I'm saying, Jr. Get suspended,
Speaker 1: But we're supposed to, you know it, were supposed to
Speaker 1: sweat Boston. And I'll say that on on the record. Uh,
Speaker 1: but I felt like it was a championship for me
Speaker 1: because of just how much you hear about New York Boston.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just basketball, it was baseball, it was football,
Speaker 1: it was high school. It was like street Ship is
Speaker 1: like I'm a part of that, and I'm the focal
Speaker 1: point of that. Being Boston was like the one of
Speaker 1: the biggest moments because and it was tough, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It was tough the Big three day,
Speaker 1: you know, and they carried it like that, and I
Speaker 1: knew in order to beat them, we had to carry it.
Speaker 1: We had to be on that same type of time
Speaker 1: it was on. So you come in on the high
Speaker 1: and then reality sets in when the struggle starts kicking in.
Speaker 1: It's a tough place to be when you're not winning.
Speaker 1: What was that like for you mentally? So I said,
Speaker 1: it's the best place to be in the worst place
Speaker 1: to me. And I always I always observed, right, I
Speaker 1: always look listening, observe and I'm always see how other
Speaker 1: athletes dealt with ship here in New York, and I
Speaker 1: would sitting back and like, y if that was me,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't deal with it like that, or I would
Speaker 1: deal with it like this. Or he's doing it the
Speaker 1: right way. O G he doing it the right way?
Speaker 1: This person, ain't you know what I'm saying that I
Speaker 1: see how athletes got They kicked it. They build you up,
Speaker 1: and they kicked the cheer for money. So you're here
Speaker 1: in New York, and I never wanted to be that.
Speaker 1: So I always stay solid with the media, even though
Speaker 1: I ain't like talking to them. When losing drop, I
Speaker 1: stood up. I still told after the game we lost
Speaker 1: it was on me. It wasn't on nobody else. I
Speaker 1: never blame anybody else. So I dealt with it, and
Speaker 1: I think I reaped the benefits of you know, staying solid,
Speaker 1: and benefits of being real so beneficial. Absolutely absolutely. What
Speaker 1: could you change if you could from that time? What
Speaker 1: would you change from the next. I think just the
Speaker 1: way that ship was handled, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like that hand, you know what I'm saying, how I
Speaker 1: was handled personally. I would I would change that, you know.
Speaker 1: I would want them to communicate with me a lot
Speaker 1: more than what was going on. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: When Phil came, it was just like he cut that
Speaker 1: line in communication off for me with the front office,
Speaker 1: with staff members, even players. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, like you're talking to him about me,
Speaker 1: You're going to him talking to him about you? Is
Speaker 1: But I'm right here, I'm right here, and the minute
Speaker 1: that I knew that was a game that was being played, Like, nah,
Speaker 1: you mean he was here. We had CBC C Brickley,
Speaker 1: Brickley then he was like, Brick was there, but he
Speaker 1: was like you know, when Derek Fisher was there, he
Speaker 1: was like he was low key jealous of relationship with
Speaker 1: y'all had because I wanted I'm big on bringing other
Speaker 1: people up. You know, Brick was the he was. He
Speaker 1: was a rebounder for us, and I gravitated towards him.
Speaker 1: I've seen he was in the gym all day, all night.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the hours that they had him working.
Speaker 1: It was crazy. No nobody should work that much. But
Speaker 1: he didn't. He didn't complain. So I'm like, I'll call
Speaker 1: him help meet me at the gym. I'm coming back
Speaker 1: up with Tom and I'll beat it. He rebounded, so
Speaker 1: before practice, after practice, I would look for him. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I would be looking for Brick
Speaker 1: and they hated that ship. We also had Kenny Atkinson
Speaker 1: was you know, it was in the same position that
Speaker 1: Brick was in at that point in time. But I'm
Speaker 1: going to Brick. I'm like, you know, I feel comfortable
Speaker 1: with him. I can confide to him. He can confide
Speaker 1: to me. I know his struggle and what he's trying
Speaker 1: to do. And I told him, I said, I got you,
Speaker 1: like I got you, I'm gonna make you. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: make you my train. I got you what they're talking about, right,
Speaker 1: I got you. So you mentioned Phil. I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: with that relationship, you think Phil Jackson, you think this
Speaker 1: and that, but once he actually gets there, it's not
Speaker 1: what you guys think. Has there ever been any closure
Speaker 1: because it's obviously you know the friction has been publicized.
Speaker 1: Has ever many many closure between you and Field? Nah?
Speaker 1: I mean I don't need closure. You understand, there's no
Speaker 1: I ain't what it is. It's still tall doing my
Speaker 1: doing my time. So it is what it is. You
Speaker 1: feel the way that you feel about me. You say
Speaker 1: what you got to say about me. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I had to sit down with you, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: say that. You would say something totally different. You don't
Speaker 1: tell me it wasn't like that. So I ain't really
Speaker 1: got time for I don't need it at this point,
Speaker 1: Part three of your next experience deciding it's time to go?
Speaker 1: What was that? How tough was that It was tough
Speaker 1: because I ain't want to leave the NIXT either. You understand,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to leave even though like we was losing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm still don't want to leave, like I ain't.
Speaker 1: This is me, this is I came in for a reason,
Speaker 1: this is this is where I'm ending to that and
Speaker 1: for some reason, man, that man ain't he used to
Speaker 1: like tell me everything in the book without telling me
Speaker 1: get out. I thought you was a liful with the knicks.
Speaker 1: I can't lie. I thought she was gonna time. And
Speaker 1: that's what That's what I wanted to do. That's what
Speaker 1: I wanted to do. It I'm talking about every time. Man,
Speaker 1: it's just like he's telling me ship is just basically
Speaker 1: like pushing me towards the door, and I know he
Speaker 1: pushing me, and I'm like, nope, I ain't going nowhere.
Speaker 1: I ain't going nowhere to hang yourself. Trying to get
Speaker 1: me hanging myself, man, And honestly, like I never made
Speaker 1: Philip probably had three conversations. Man, it's the whole time
Speaker 1: he was here. We never we never talked like that.
Speaker 1: If we talked, we were sitting the room his office,
Speaker 1: lights out. A couple of candles. You know what I'm
Speaker 1: saying That we would watch film and he would he
Speaker 1: would teach me how to break the triangle. You understand that.
Speaker 1: He would teach me like, yo, you, this is what
Speaker 1: you gotta do. So I learned it so crazy, but
Speaker 1: he was. I think he was a little sick that
Speaker 1: I learned it before from Cold m J. Like you know,
Speaker 1: I used to sit with them and asked me on
Speaker 1: what's over this triangle? And Cold we used to you know,
Speaker 1: we see down the master of breaking the try and
Speaker 1: go uh. And I think Phil hated that, the fact
Speaker 1: that I figured it out on how to get to
Speaker 1: my spots, how to get what I really wanted on
Speaker 1: of that. So he used to always I was manipulating
Speaker 1: the office bro, like I'm trying to get you though,
Speaker 1: that's what I needed, And he wasn't. He wasn't flying
Speaker 1: with that. Well, that's funny when you sit back and
Speaker 1: think about it, from where you started to Baltimore to
Speaker 1: Syracuse too. Now you're number ten all time on the scoring.
Speaker 1: First of congratulations, But what does that mean to you?
Speaker 1: And how do you process something like that? It was hard.
Speaker 1: It's still hard to process that because I'm still in it.
Speaker 1: I'm still doing it, so you know you you I'm
Speaker 1: in Atlanta and that's that was That was Atlantic game,
Speaker 1: and I get the temp spot we played the next day.
Speaker 1: It's like you can't even you can't even sit still
Speaker 1: and celebrate that, you know, so everybody else can celebrate
Speaker 1: it for you, but you got I gotta get ready
Speaker 1: for the next game. I gotta go play Milwaukee the
Speaker 1: next night, Like I can't be celebrating temph like these
Speaker 1: don't give a about tenth like they trying. They're trying
Speaker 1: to beat the shower that's out there the next day.
Speaker 1: So it's still having I understand it. But if they
Speaker 1: ain't gonna be till I'm done done, more climate to
Speaker 1: do because nine, you're not that far behind, far from
Speaker 1: nine man nine eight is right. Then after that, after that,
Speaker 1: I ain't trying. Listen, I ain't gonna be in that
Speaker 1: long out of points, bro, I mean Olympic mellow three
Speaker 1: gold medals, all time leading scores. Although I think Katie
Speaker 1: today if he gets six points, should she was supposed
Speaker 1: to That's what supposed to happen. But what was your
Speaker 1: Olympic experience, Like you were one of the greatest Olympic
Speaker 1: players our country's ever seen. I think losing the Old Four,
Speaker 1: getting embarrassing Old Four, you know, losing to Puerto Rico
Speaker 1: at that for me personally, we could lose anybody, but
Speaker 1: not Puerto Rico, not pr So, losing the Old Four,
Speaker 1: coming back at oh six, losing in the World Championship
Speaker 1: and that moment we lost the game and I'm on
Speaker 1: the court and they thrown toward a tissue confettiated. It wasn't.
Speaker 1: In the championship game they beat us, and I remember
Speaker 1: Men Brawn walked over the court. It was like he's like, Yo,
Speaker 1: come on, man, we gotta get off the court. He
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, we're gonna be back. We're gonna be back.
Speaker 1: We came back oh seven one of the one one
Speaker 1: of the fever games in Vegas, and I had to
Speaker 1: convince my brother, man, come on, cold, we come on.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, Ain's working with it. I ain't freking
Speaker 1: with that. I'm like, come on, like you the missing link,
Speaker 1: he said, just like when you said that no for four.
Speaker 1: I'm like, bro, you're the missing link. Bun the way
Speaker 1: like we are, you know what I mean? CP. This
Speaker 1: was d White was Chris Bars like, will you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like we gotta go. He's like, you know,
Speaker 1: Nike came in and you know, helped helped it out.
Speaker 1: But the Old eight team probably the best team might
Speaker 1: ever played for. I think a lot of ninety two team, man,
Speaker 1: but that Old eight team that we had a different mindset,
Speaker 1: like we was locked in, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And it was a dog eat dog world, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying at that point, And you couldn't come
Speaker 1: with no bullshit and oh wait practices you couldn't come.
Speaker 1: I don't get for who you was, you couldn't come.
Speaker 1: So oh wait came Bestie Sperence ever two thousand twelve came,
Speaker 1: uh go to go to London when that that was
Speaker 1: sweet too. The six team was like this is it
Speaker 1: for me? You know what I'm saying. I left my
Speaker 1: ship in real my sneakers if I was stealing in
Speaker 1: the gym. So I ain't never touching USA basketball again
Speaker 1: because four Olympics, man a lot, that's a lot, and
Speaker 1: four Olympics I play USA basketball for damn the eight
Speaker 1: summers straight no break, no break, sounding like I'm I'm
Speaker 1: done with him, and I hung my hat up team
Speaker 1: year and say if they need me, they could know
Speaker 1: one thing about it. Though, to put your credit to
Speaker 1: say all the stars they had on their team, the respect,
Speaker 1: they're happy because Donna squitch, they was going there was
Speaker 1: coming to you. But they also knew. They also knew
Speaker 1: how I was giving it up to you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. They also knew like you sucking around Stack,
Speaker 1: don't stop playing, bro, you know you're sucking around. You
Speaker 1: don't play like we ain't. It was that so I
Speaker 1: don't you know, I don't want pap myself on the
Speaker 1: back for that, but I felt like I was a
Speaker 1: glue guy to a lot of situations over there when
Speaker 1: she could have went left. She could have went left
Speaker 1: over there. People don't know that. People no, No, she
Speaker 1: could have easily went left. What I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that's what this team right now is is struggling with
Speaker 1: this is kind of defining roles and having to understand
Speaker 1: who's gonna sacrifice. You guys got a lot of people
Speaker 1: on your team that's sacrifice to make that ship happen.
Speaker 1: And it started from the from the jump, and Coach
Speaker 1: k did a great job of, you know, giving anybody rolls.
Speaker 1: But he you know, he didn't keep you in the box,
Speaker 1: but he told you what he expected from each guy.
Speaker 1: And I remember, like, you know, we were talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, who's going to start and who's nine. And
Speaker 1: I went to him like, yo, coach, look, don't stress
Speaker 1: yourself out about that. Start Katie, Like I bring me
Speaker 1: off the bench, like I ain't. Nobody remember I came
Speaker 1: off the bench. You know what I'm saying. Nobody remember that.
Speaker 1: So he's like, oh, you know, it's just I said, listen,
Speaker 1: coach k and start that man. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I A and I'm gonna do what I do regardless.
Speaker 1: Start him. And you know he defined those roles for us.
Speaker 1: You haven't yet got an opportunity to win a championship.
Speaker 1: But how special was it winning gold medals with your brothers? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So the gold medals winning that was special, especially at
Speaker 1: eight one, like the O eight was like, okay, we
Speaker 1: got our ship back. And I looked at I looked
Speaker 1: at the left BRA, looked at the right cold back
Speaker 1: head the way CP. You know what I'm saying. It
Speaker 1: was like this I was supposed to be You're supposed
Speaker 1: to celebrate these moments at that level of any sport
Speaker 1: together like that. How did the Banana boat come together?
Speaker 1: I have no idea, to be honest, I wasn't on that.
Speaker 1: I wasn't knowing that that fucking Banana boat man. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. We went on the vacation. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. One of the vacation, but little
Speaker 1: brotherhood vacation and Bron slage your life. I came late
Speaker 1: to the vacation Banana boat. So as I'm as I'm
Speaker 1: on a tender going to the yacht, I see them
Speaker 1: on the on the Banana boat. So I'm looking like,
Speaker 1: what the fun is going on? What y'all? You know?
Speaker 1: I'm looking about something. So I get to I get
Speaker 1: to the boat and the next day it's like a
Speaker 1: picture of like everywhere everywhere it was the Banana boat crew.
Speaker 1: I ain't even there though I rolled past that ship, ain't.
Speaker 1: I won't even get on that. You with my son, like,
Speaker 1: you don't know Banana. You know what I'm like getting
Speaker 1: talked to us about two. I mean, there's a I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's true, but I heard that Bron
Speaker 1: saved your life man swimming ship. Any truth to it truth.
Speaker 1: It's it's truth. Man. We was We was in like
Speaker 1: the little grotto like in the Bahamas. You know, you
Speaker 1: can swim underneck because Jack is great to get the bathtub,
Speaker 1: so you can't swim either. I can swim, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you some real ship. I can survive. We're
Speaker 1: in there and we're trying to get back. Everybody swimming
Speaker 1: back to the to the boat. But I'm snorkeling to
Speaker 1: we snorkeling on their way back. And my head is
Speaker 1: in the water and I'm snorkeling and I look up.
Speaker 1: Any time I look up out the water, the boat
Speaker 1: is further and further way, and I'm getting pushed by
Speaker 1: the current current. I'm like yo, yo, because looking at
Speaker 1: me like like I'm joking, I'm like, yo, I need help.
Speaker 1: Like this, I'm swimming, I'm like this, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: hold onto a rock. It was exhausted. I was exhausted.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I ain't gonna fight that current like that.
Speaker 1: So the one guy was like, just don't fight it,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Let it just go with it,
Speaker 1: go with the floor. And I see bron jump in
Speaker 1: the water just you know, aquaman jump in the water.
Speaker 1: I was because the way it was right in front
Speaker 1: of me, on right before me. So I'm thinking d
Speaker 1: going come back. But I know d ain't rocking with
Speaker 1: the water like that, you know, like he's like yo, yo,
Speaker 1: go get him bat and I just see Bron, Bron
Speaker 1: just coming. I got I got you, Champ, I got you,
Speaker 1: I got you, grabbed me and we went back. We
Speaker 1: went back to the boat man all purpose the run
Speaker 1: is all purpose God all kind of ships. But it's
Speaker 1: crazy because he can. Really he's very good at a
Speaker 1: lot of ship. Like I don't give what it is.
Speaker 1: He's going to be successful at that. He's gonna figure
Speaker 1: it out. It's one of them people. He just wanted them.
Speaker 1: He's just want of them natural freaks. Man. You just
Speaker 1: called him a laugh baby man he was building. Or
Speaker 1: shout out Braun for saving you man's life. He all
Speaker 1: appreciate you can They said he had mellow on one arms,
Speaker 1: swimming with the swimming against the current with superhuman Get
Speaker 1: a look easy. What was your inspiration betind launching Creative seven?
Speaker 1: So Creative seven was like I already had I had
Speaker 1: a production company years ago. We did our first project
Speaker 1: was the Tyson documentary years ago, and I got my
Speaker 1: feet wet in the production business, and I just always
Speaker 1: was I would watch the business and see where it
Speaker 1: was on. But I knew, excuse me, I knew it
Speaker 1: was hard for athletes to tap into any other industry
Speaker 1: other than what we do basketball, and you know, music
Speaker 1: was a thing at the time. I tried to dip
Speaker 1: and dab in music, but it was like I knew
Speaker 1: I had an age for that ship, you know, and
Speaker 1: creating content. And I was treating content back then, not
Speaker 1: even knowing what I was doing. And then you see
Speaker 1: everybody started creating content and years later re vamping it.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to revamp the production company. I'm sitting down
Speaker 1: with my partner, now who's you know, she's the president
Speaker 1: of Medal Enterprises. So we're sitting down and were just like,
Speaker 1: you know, we gotta start telling these stories, like we
Speaker 1: got so many stories that needs to be told. We
Speaker 1: got to tap into our people telling our stories, and
Speaker 1: we got to go back to the true essence of
Speaker 1: where we come from and telling stories about the unsung heroes.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't want to keep hearing about
Speaker 1: no disrespect, but Dr Martin Luther King, Like we learned
Speaker 1: about that ship already, what about what about Banka Evers?
Speaker 1: What about these guys right here that these stories need
Speaker 1: to be told. You understand the history behind that, what
Speaker 1: they did? You know what I'm saying. Like I was,
Speaker 1: I was joking with somebody other day, I'm like, Yo,
Speaker 1: people don't know Batholin was black. Really what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: you ain't even know the idea? This was what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it's like, these are these are stories that people
Speaker 1: need to know that and ship that they should do
Speaker 1: to him. It was a reverse. The richest man in
Speaker 1: the world was black man Moos Moosa. So it was like,
Speaker 1: these are stories that people I don't know about what
Speaker 1: they really need to know about that? So that was
Speaker 1: like the you know, the idea behind trade and Trade
Speaker 1: of seventh. So uh, Obviously, last year with the pandemic
Speaker 1: hidding the George Floyd ship, Hidden Jack found his next calling,
Speaker 1: I think his main calling what he was made to do?
Speaker 1: Uh in this social justice space. You guys created a
Speaker 1: social change fund, you CP Brown anyone else? So what
Speaker 1: is what is the mission? And to go behind that fund?
Speaker 1: Oh man, we just wanted to start putting our money
Speaker 1: while our mouth was at you know what I'm saying
Speaker 1: that I got. We did the sp speech and that
Speaker 1: was like the call that was our athletes summing of
Speaker 1: sixty eight, you know what I'm saying, Like that was
Speaker 1: the Ali Jim Brown. But I also say I thought,
Speaker 1: I think it was bigger than that moment because we
Speaker 1: they sat in the room and did a breast conference
Speaker 1: and you know, amongst them several we was we called
Speaker 1: out our fellow athletes and if you didn't take that
Speaker 1: and this and ran with that after that, then you
Speaker 1: you ain't who you mean who you say you are
Speaker 1: lead down for the cause. So after that, it was like,
Speaker 1: what's what's two point oh of that? You know what's next?
Speaker 1: Then the George Floyd ship hit and was like the
Speaker 1: bubble ship hit and it was like, yeah, we gotta
Speaker 1: do something. You know, CP was already doing it with
Speaker 1: the you know, with the p A the way it
Speaker 1: was doing his own thing. I was doing my own thing,
Speaker 1: and it was like, yeah, we gotta we gotta come together,
Speaker 1: We gotta have some type of unity and go out
Speaker 1: to the world and really make change socially, like you know,
Speaker 1: so let's create this fun. You know, we team up
Speaker 1: with everybody. It don't even it don't even matter, like
Speaker 1: we in the competition with nobody. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: If you come on, you got some ship, you come on,
Speaker 1: we we support that, you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: we had our pillars. You know, everybody had their own
Speaker 1: thing that they wanted to do, education and prison reform,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was just like let's just take
Speaker 1: what we take three or four pillars that we really
Speaker 1: want to rock out with. Let's attack that and then
Speaker 1: we go from there where the idea come up from uh,
Speaker 1: what's in your glass? The pandemic? Yo oncen't your glass?
Speaker 1: Started like like every Monday and during the during the quarantine,
Speaker 1: I would just get on that. We would just be
Speaker 1: on zoom, right. I just I first learned about zoom
Speaker 1: during that time. So we're on zoom and it's like,
Speaker 1: say it's me and you on zoom. We just rocking, talking,
Speaker 1: drinking wine and were like I'm like, yo, call somebody
Speaker 1: else on like see when you can get on with us.
Speaker 1: I'll call one person. You call one person, that person
Speaker 1: will called somebody that person. So it became just a
Speaker 1: cycle you know what I'm saying. It was like Carol Hart,
Speaker 1: wal Burden Brady was on one of them, Dave Chappelle,
Speaker 1: like it was just like you don't know who the
Speaker 1: was gonna coming on that. And then I realized, like, yo,
Speaker 1: everybody needs this. What everybody needs everybody drinking wine and
Speaker 1: ship We had d nice with the DJ. We have
Speaker 1: versus and the wine, Like those are the three. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying that that's what was going on.
Speaker 1: So I kept that what'sn't your glass? I started it,
Speaker 1: kept it going and here and now we got a
Speaker 1: full production behind it, and we made it a premium show.
Speaker 1: So coming down to the end um, I think as
Speaker 1: athletes often we don't get enough credit for because people
Speaker 1: just think basketball is our life and that's the furthest
Speaker 1: thing from the truth. Recently, you've had stuff in the media.
Speaker 1: What do you do mentally to block out the noise
Speaker 1: to focus on one being a player and then too
Speaker 1: being a father. So the player that that's gonna be there,
Speaker 1: like that's there's anything I do is surrounded around that.
Speaker 1: Long't I get that done? I can do whatever the
Speaker 1: hell I want to do after that. The parents and
Speaker 1: is that's easy. You know what I'm saying, that you
Speaker 1: just gotta be in their life. That's you gotta be there,
Speaker 1: you gotta be That's that's super easy. That comes natural
Speaker 1: to me. So I don't have to think twice about that.
Speaker 1: So when Ship is out there in the field and
Speaker 1: people talking like I just staying tall on who I am,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I know the truth and
Speaker 1: that's all that matter. It's like, you'll never hit me
Speaker 1: speak on nothing. I don't basketball person who you ain't
Speaker 1: gonna never hit me speak on it because only I
Speaker 1: know the truth. Because I'm gonna staying tall on all
Speaker 1: that that that that goes with who I said. People
Speaker 1: say a lot of things. But when you go and
Speaker 1: look at yourself in the mirror, if you're not happy
Speaker 1: with what you see, because the mirror ain't gonna lie
Speaker 1: to you, it's gonnae it's gonna keep it really real
Speaker 1: with you every time you're looking at And if you
Speaker 1: can go in the mirror and be happy what you see,
Speaker 1: bunk with anybody else, it don't matter, man, it don't matter.
Speaker 1: But I also say that that year that I took
Speaker 1: away from the game like that Ship did something different
Speaker 1: to me mentally, spiritually, mentally, it did something different to me,
Speaker 1: Like I came out of that on something like I
Speaker 1: was untouchable, you know what I'm saying. Like spiritually I
Speaker 1: was locked in. I know I haven't been locked in
Speaker 1: like that. I'll be in my lessons, in my books
Speaker 1: and all that, but I wasn't locked in like that,
Speaker 1: you know, So to sit still for a year, give
Speaker 1: me a chance to get away from basketball. Let me
Speaker 1: say basketball at that point. Let me get back in
Speaker 1: my literature, Let me get back in my lessons, let
Speaker 1: me let me really lock in. Let me let me
Speaker 1: unravel all of these years of just building up, building up,
Speaker 1: and suppressing a lot of ship. I gotta get that out.
Speaker 1: In the minute that I got that out, like I
Speaker 1: just said, I felt so much better mentally, spiritual, I
Speaker 1: just felt so much better after later during that time too,
Speaker 1: it was good you didn't say that because you had
Speaker 1: so many people speaking up for you, because they know
Speaker 1: you as a person, they know what you deserve, and everybody,
Speaker 1: everybody that knew you didn't mind riding from now. I
Speaker 1: ain't talking about last talk about the world. Everybody was
Speaker 1: speaking up because like and that that's a testament to
Speaker 1: who you are. And you know what I'm saying, because
Speaker 1: like the media can say a lot of things, but
Speaker 1: the best thing about now is we controlling our own narrative.
Speaker 1: People that knew you had we had like we had
Speaker 1: a platform with people that knew you had a platform.
Speaker 1: So it's best sometimes when you don't say nothing, because
Speaker 1: people that know you go around for you a little.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't have to say much, man, And
Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't really have to say much. I
Speaker 1: have to say ship at all. Right, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I had jaw holding up holding me down
Speaker 1: out which I appreciate that big time. And just people
Speaker 1: like you said, people who knew me, people who really
Speaker 1: know my true essence. That's what we're speaking up for me.
Speaker 1: And I always say that if I never ever won
Speaker 1: the championship, as long as I got my respect for
Speaker 1: my pist, that's all that matters. That's all that matters,
Speaker 1: straight up. That quick hitters. First thing to come to mind,
Speaker 1: if you could relive one night in your career, which
Speaker 1: night would it be? Draft Night? Okay? Why? Draft night?
Speaker 1: Draft Night? I did? I did? I did Draft Night?
Speaker 1: I did I did Draft Night? You plus four going
Speaker 1: to black Top? Wire? You're taking going to the black Top?
Speaker 1: You plus four? Oh Cold Katie Kyrie? Yeah, one more
Speaker 1: plus four. I don't really need a big I'll take ticket.
Speaker 1: I'll take kg Yeah, ticket because we play on black
Speaker 1: You gotta go get it, man, you gotta killers out there.
Speaker 1: Top five artists in your opinion ship right now and
Speaker 1: top five arters. I'm nahs hold kiss. Let's know that
Speaker 1: East Coast bush Kiss. I hate this man. I hate
Speaker 1: this ship like I'm I love like I love rock Kemp.
Speaker 1: I'm saying I love the guard Man, so he would always,
Speaker 1: no matter what, be my man. You know Hens of seven?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying that. You know that you
Speaker 1: know the history on that um like I'm a Jeezy fan,
Speaker 1: Like you know what I'm saying, Like I'm a Jesus
Speaker 1: I came up with Jez. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So that I can't put five man, I can't. I
Speaker 1: hate this ship. I could do everybody hate that. I
Speaker 1: can't do nives. I don't know what naves to hate
Speaker 1: that ship. You know what I'm saying, Like I grew
Speaker 1: up on nas. You know what I'm saying I grew
Speaker 1: up on you know, the Temberlin boots with the army jackets.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying that that was project looking
Speaker 1: at my project windows like songs that could you spoke
Speaker 1: to me? You know what I'm saying, the moutang, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying it. Then as I started getting older,
Speaker 1: you know, X started you know, X was a dog snoop.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I always funk with game.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying that, Like I can't put
Speaker 1: five man, I funk with everybody. I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: I do though. I give anybody a shot. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: give anybody a shot, and that gives me a reason
Speaker 1: to be like now I'm funk with you. Theyved Road
Speaker 1: Arena to silence good Boston. I like that Boston. You
Speaker 1: don't like that look? You know like that Boston? Just
Speaker 1: the Boston is just they vicious out there. Man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't give a funk out to the Bos. That's
Speaker 1: the That's the East Coast. You talk to me, Boston,
Speaker 1: you talk is second silent as you talk. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: sign yes, yes, yes. Utah is a place you want
Speaker 1: to dagger like you want to beat them. So yeah,
Speaker 1: you want to dagger and just talk. You talk your
Speaker 1: talk out, then then you talk your favorite batch up
Speaker 1: to this point to your career was all it would
Speaker 1: be cold. That would be cold. On the spot again.
Speaker 1: Five dinner guests that are alive. I think you would
Speaker 1: like this question or deep as you I think Um
Speaker 1: Malcolm M. Nelson, Marcus Garvey, Um, Dr Ben York Deep
Speaker 1: Um Obama with the table. You're gonna learn a lot
Speaker 1: at that table. Hell of the table. Last question, bro,
Speaker 1: this is a big I might interlude on this question.
Speaker 1: Go ahead and go ahead, get it. Find a question,
Speaker 1: but remember the answer to this question. You have to
Speaker 1: help us get them on the show. Who would you
Speaker 1: like to see on All the Smoke? The person that
Speaker 1: ain't your life swimming? Or oh no, no he cool
Speaker 1: with somebody else that we try to get to. Now, okay,
Speaker 1: let us speak. Oh I think he's been doing ever
Speaker 1: since Pat Joe all day. Think those I think those two, man,
Speaker 1: I think Holve. I would love to see house. I
Speaker 1: would love to see a whole one here because it's real.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, It's authentic, and he gonna
Speaker 1: kick that he's gonna kick that ship to you. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. He's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna
Speaker 1: have you. He's gonna have all of y'all in head
Speaker 1: on some right, you know what I'm saying. But you're
Speaker 1: gonna learn something from him too. I would love to
Speaker 1: see broun On here too. Um the game I would
Speaker 1: love to see, But I would love to see home
Speaker 1: one here though. I mean I can sit and listen
Speaker 1: to hold Talk all day. You got break Niles over here, man,
Speaker 1: you want to get the norm break? We need you
Speaker 1: any one of them three or go yeah, one of them,
Speaker 1: bless the brother this overhead, Yes, sir man, that's a wrap, mellow.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you, man. We got a lot of love
Speaker 1: for you, you know what I mean. Like like like
Speaker 1: we said, man, your peers speak up for you, and
Speaker 1: that shows the character and the man who you are. Man.
Speaker 1: So you know we got your back. You always got
Speaker 1: a family here you love the rest of the way,
Speaker 1: we know you're not done. Keep climbing that ladder. You
Speaker 1: can catch yourself. Showtime Basketball YouTube the hundredth episode and
Speaker 1: appreciate you, bro and the Heart platform the Black Effects.
Speaker 1: You bet you. This is all a smoke A production
Speaker 1: of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Showtime. Jake Paul has site install its opponents, but
Speaker 1: his next test against Combat Sports ledger of Tyron Woodley.
Speaker 1: He's his toughest yet. Now the fight critics that Jake
Speaker 1: Cole should never take. He's here, he wants it more.
Speaker 1: Jake Cole versus Tyro Woul late Sunday, August twenty nine
Speaker 1: at eighty Stern five Pacific, live on pay per view.
Speaker 1: Order now go to showtime dot com slash ppv