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Speaker 1: Please. He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson,

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Speaker 1: home of the Black and Gold Steelers Nation Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Drive. I'm Dale Lollly here with Matt Williamson.

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Speaker 1: It's a lovely Wednesday here in Pittsburgh. And he week

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Speaker 1: from today, Matt, the Steelers will be holding their first

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Speaker 1: training camp practice. Yeah, how about that. We will be

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Speaker 1: on the air every day they practice, three to six.

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Speaker 1: Come see us, definitely listen, and that will be the

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Speaker 1: first one of them. One week from today Wednesday. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they report Tuesday. From what I gather, you know better

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Speaker 1: than I do, but there will be practice going on

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Speaker 1: one week from from now exactly. Yeah. Um, and several

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Speaker 1: other teams across the league have already started to report.

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Speaker 1: They've said, you either had their rookies come in or

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Speaker 1: I think the Bills veterans reported today as well. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: stuff starting to happen around the league. Um. Unfortunately, last

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Speaker 1: night there was some bad news regarding the Steelers, or

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Speaker 1: at least a former Steeler, as Charles Johnson, the Steelers

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Speaker 1: first round draft pick, passed away at the age of fifty. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's terrible. I remember watching them, you know, when I

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Speaker 1: was younger and not really uh more of a fan

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Speaker 1: than you know, a media guy or in the doing

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Speaker 1: this for a living. And he was a really good

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Speaker 1: player and part of some good teams. And the bottom

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Speaker 1: line is just like with Haskins and a couple of

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Speaker 1: these around the league, let on two on the same team,

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Speaker 1: just way too early, and it's so unfortunate. Do we

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Speaker 1: even have to bring it up? You know? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: did cover Charles his entire five years stay with the Steelers,

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Speaker 1: and um, people forget about. What people forget about him

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Speaker 1: is that he set the stage for what HEINZ word

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Speaker 1: became the way up. Yeah. Yeah, he was the guy

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Speaker 1: that when when word came in, that was that was

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Speaker 1: Charles Johnson's final year with the Steelers, and Johnson was

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of that dirty work that Ward then

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Speaker 1: took over that role, cracking down on linebackers, blocking defensive ends,

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Speaker 1: things of that nature. He really kind of set the

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Speaker 1: tone on those teams. He was that physical receiver on

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Speaker 1: that group. But if you remember that group, uh you

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Speaker 1: know with with with Charles Johnson and Andre Hastings and

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Speaker 1: Ernie Mills and Jeff Graham, Um, it was really a

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Speaker 1: good a good group and then he threw Cordell Steward

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Speaker 1: into that. I mean, they had five wide receivers who

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Speaker 1: could really stress a defense, and that really kind of

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Speaker 1: changed the focus of the team. And you know until

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Speaker 1: that point that, you know, when they lost in the

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Speaker 1: ninety four a f C Championship game to the Chargers,

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Speaker 1: they came back in a different football team in terms

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Speaker 1: of how they wanted to play offensively. They started they

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Speaker 1: started throwing the football more often because they had those

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Speaker 1: that five group of five wide receivers that was probably

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Speaker 1: as deep as any group in the league. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you remember this is better than mind. But as you

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Speaker 1: were bringing that up, my recollection was, boy, it was

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Speaker 1: not rare, but far far, far more uncommon to have

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Speaker 1: three receivers on the field then than now, and they

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Speaker 1: often had four. I mean, like they were really far

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Speaker 1: along in terms of getting speed and past catchers on

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Speaker 1: the field and taking the fullback out of the equation

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Speaker 1: or the big, heavy blocking tight end. And it fits

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Speaker 1: them because you know, again I thought there was a

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Speaker 1: misconcepsion or a generalization back then that this is just

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Speaker 1: gonna be a run the ball, play defense type of team.

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Speaker 1: They're not real forward thinking and then they come out

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Speaker 1: and they're throwing it all over the lot back then,

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Speaker 1: and and that group of receivers. It correct me if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But I didn't think there was a star

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Speaker 1: in the group or a number one. But to your point,

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Speaker 1: there was five that could play for anybody. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that was you know, Johnson had a thousand

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Speaker 1: yards season in ninety six. Um, haste, I'm sorry. I

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Speaker 1: think been had some good years. I think Ben had

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Speaker 1: a couple of really big years as well. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there was no out and out star. I

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Speaker 1: did think that, you know, had Cordel Stewart focus just

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Speaker 1: on being a wide receiver, could have been a really

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Speaker 1: really good one. Um. But Johnson was that he was

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Speaker 1: kind of the glue of that group. He was the

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Speaker 1: guy that again he did all the dirty work, um

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Speaker 1: and did the blocking and cracking back on down on

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Speaker 1: on defensive ends and linebackers and things of that nature.

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Speaker 1: That that then you know, hines Ward took that to

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Speaker 1: a different level, um, you know later in his career,

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Speaker 1: but he learned it from Johnson. Okay, See I didn't

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Speaker 1: understand I didn't know that chain of how that happened

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Speaker 1: or you know, I don't think of Johnson as the biggest,

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Speaker 1: most physical receiver out there, but maybe he did a

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Speaker 1: lot more dirty work than many of us, including myself, realized,

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Speaker 1: and really helped the team in that way. It's funny

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Speaker 1: to bring up Cordell because I mean, just a side note.

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Speaker 1: I was on stand show Friday, and out of the blue,

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Speaker 1: he asked me who's the third best Steelers quarterback? Ever?

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Speaker 1: I was like, um neil, and then I said, well,

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Speaker 1: actually what I did was I bid I bought myself

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Speaker 1: some time and said, well, if Cordell would have came

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Speaker 1: in the league about fifteen years or later or twenty

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Speaker 1: years later, I think they'd be a strong case for him.

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Speaker 1: And we started talking about Cordell, and I eventually said,

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Speaker 1: Ronald Donald at to your point, many people and yourself included,

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Speaker 1: who solve his practices, told me that would have been

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Speaker 1: one of the best receivers in the league. Of Cordell

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Speaker 1: just decided to be a receiver. Yeah. He was just

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Speaker 1: so athletic and had the size and the and the

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Speaker 1: speed and the strength UH to really be a dominant player.

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Speaker 1: And he was a good quarterback. UH. To the answer

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Speaker 1: your question of the answer, the correct answers. Bobby Lane,

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Speaker 1: that's what stand said to and I kind of ducked

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Speaker 1: out of it and said, well, I was talking people

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Speaker 1: I've seen. Well, I mean people talk about Bobby Lane

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Speaker 1: and he well he only played five five years for

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Speaker 1: the Steelers. Yeah, but they were you know, if you

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Speaker 1: look at all the other quarterbacks, right, they didn't they

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Speaker 1: didn't play for five years of a long time. And

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the guy's a Hall of Fame quarterback

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Speaker 1: who was there for two decades and yeah, right, right, right,

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Speaker 1: So that is the right answer, but it was before

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Speaker 1: my time, so ignored him. But that stinks about Johnson. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was, and he was really one of the truly

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Speaker 1: uh good guys in the Yeah. I mean just just

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Speaker 1: a real gentleman, a good player, a good dude, and

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Speaker 1: sorry to see him pass away at an early age.

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Speaker 1: Also wanted Super bowlth the Patriots in two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: So I wouldn't have put that together either. Wide receivers

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Speaker 1: that do the dirty work are popular in locker rooms. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they recognize it every but he understands that that role.

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Speaker 1: Coaches call that out on tape in front of the

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Speaker 1: whole team and yeah, yeah, um, but sorry to see

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Speaker 1: him go. Also played collegiate football of Cordell Stewart, so

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Speaker 1: he used the number first round, first round pick. He

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Speaker 1: was the number one receiver at Colorado when when Cordell

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Speaker 1: was I was playing there as well. They Colorado program

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Speaker 1: back then was really putting out a lot of good players.

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Speaker 1: Um they really. I mean there's like a five year

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Speaker 1: window of just high draft picks left and right, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was the figures at Colorado. Figures was

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Speaker 1: a guy Chad Chad Brown was another one. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: the Steelers mind that that team pretty well back in

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Speaker 1: those days. And uh yeah, um, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you saw the piece on ESPN today that that was released. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but it's ranking NFL teams one to thirty two based

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Speaker 1: on their three year window what they're gonna do in

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Speaker 1: the next three years. And they do they look at

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Speaker 1: this in a lot of different ways. They do. They

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Speaker 1: look at the overall roster minus the quarterback, and they

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Speaker 1: factor in the quarterback coaching, how the team is drafted,

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Speaker 1: and then their front office and they ranked him one

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Speaker 1: to thirty two and each one of those things. So

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Speaker 1: I have to come clean, is there's about ten websites

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Speaker 1: that when I get up and I have my coffee

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Speaker 1: and you know, before I kind of start my day,

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Speaker 1: I always hit ESPN is one of them former employers

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Speaker 1: of mine, so articles don't slip by me from there.

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Speaker 1: That being said, when I clicked on it there this morning,

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Speaker 1: I saw the headline and said, oh, I hated that

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Speaker 1: project when I was at the ESPN because back then

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Speaker 1: we do five year projection, like they would ask us

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Speaker 1: who's the ten best running backs in the league five

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Speaker 1: years from now? I'm like, whoever the best high school

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Speaker 1: kid is? I don't know, you know, like five years

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Speaker 1: is crazy. But now that I actually clicked on it

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Speaker 1: as you were saying that, because I kind of liked

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Speaker 1: the format. So they've improved their scenario here, at least

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Speaker 1: this makes a little more sense. I would have hated

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Speaker 1: this project quite as much. Yeah, three years in the

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Speaker 1: NFL is an eternity. Actually it is, in fact, if

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Speaker 1: you look at it from that, from that perspective, three

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Speaker 1: years ago, three years ago as the last time the

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Speaker 1: Steelers were at same Vincent College, right right right, and

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Speaker 1: they have twenty They have twenty players on their roster

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Speaker 1: who have been the same Vincent College that was just

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Speaker 1: three years ago. Last night, we ordered pizza from my

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Speaker 1: favorite spot, Ardolinos. You've had probably had it here at

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Speaker 1: one of my parties down and the guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: I never really talked to this delivery man, but I

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Speaker 1: had recognized him. He's been there a long time. And

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Speaker 1: he's like, so he's like for camp, Matt. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I guess he knows who I am. I'm like yeah,

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Speaker 1: And then we start talking about camp while he's handing

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Speaker 1: me my pizza, and I'm all I'm thinking about is

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Speaker 1: the pizza and camp. But I told him, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: Manka has never been to camp. But he like almost

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Speaker 1: fell off my porch, you know, Like people don't realize that,

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Speaker 1: like most of this team has never been to camp. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you look at it. I actually made a note

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Speaker 1: of that in a piece uh that I wrote on

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Speaker 1: d K Pittsburgh Sports regarding the a f C North

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Speaker 1: as a whole. If you look at the Steelers compared

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Speaker 1: to the other teams in the a f C North

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Speaker 1: right now, they have the least turmoil, their biggest their

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Speaker 1: biggest factor going to training camp is going to be

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Speaker 1: guys figuring out where everything's at a training camp. That's

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Speaker 1: the biggest distraction. Yeah, it's a good point, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even like the Onte's contract, isn't this huge

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Speaker 1: thing looming over the team. No, but especially when you

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Speaker 1: look at it through the prism of what the other

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Speaker 1: a f C North teams are looking at. You know,

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Speaker 1: in Cincinnati it said, yes, he Bates situation. It's a

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Speaker 1: big deal. It's a big deal, and he's going to

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Speaker 1: He's not gonna show up at camp. He's not. He's

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Speaker 1: not under contract. It's it's a Levy in Bell situation.

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Speaker 1: And we know having gone through that in Pittsburgh, you

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Speaker 1: know how his teammates are gonna be asked about that

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Speaker 1: every day, every day, and it gets messy, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't have to show up till the end. They

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Speaker 1: drafted a safety in the first round, which he doesn't

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Speaker 1: even have to show up. Then he could play that.

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Speaker 1: He could play this like Bell and just say no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna play this year and I'll become a

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Speaker 1: free agent at the end of the year. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: he still would have value and still would make a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. And I'm sure it was the case

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Speaker 1: with with lev was got a lot of different people

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Speaker 1: in your ear given you advice, and you know Bell

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Speaker 1: was gonna come in then he didn't, and you know,

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Speaker 1: so don't think you're out of the woods and for

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Speaker 1: a while on this one, because I don't think they're

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Speaker 1: gonna pay him. No, I don't think they don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they can at this point, right because the

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Speaker 1: contract negotiation period is done. Now that he has to

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Speaker 1: plan that franchise tag or nothing. He doesn't play options

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Speaker 1: at this point. That's that's the two options. And then

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Speaker 1: you look at Cleveland. I mean, we all know what

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Speaker 1: Cleveland's situation on the league than they. They don't even

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Speaker 1: know who the quarterback is going to be on day one.

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Speaker 1: He may not even be on the team, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you just don't know, right, Yeah. And I would expect

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Speaker 1: that the league to come out with something regarding that's

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Speaker 1: the status of the Shawn Watson Probably so. But if

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Speaker 1: they if the league decides to or actually it's in

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Speaker 1: the judges hands now their their arbitrator. Um if she

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Speaker 1: decides that, well I need to sit and look at

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Speaker 1: this a couple more weeks she can do. So, there's

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Speaker 1: no time frame on that. She doesn't care that the

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Speaker 1: seasons around the corner or training camp. She she doesn't

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Speaker 1: or does she care that the Browns need to figure

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Speaker 1: out who their starting quarterback is right for Jimmy or not.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't care one bit about that. Yeah, so they

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Speaker 1: could go into training camp with the Shawn Watson getting

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Speaker 1: all the first team snaps for the first two weeks

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Speaker 1: of camp and then he gets suspended for the for

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Speaker 1: the entire season, and then where they are. You know,

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Speaker 1: I wonder how you handle that. I mean, if camp

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Speaker 1: they won, I hadn't thought of that angle, Like, if

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Speaker 1: they won, camp opens and you're the Browns head coach,

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Speaker 1: do you get set first team snaps or Watson first

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Speaker 1: team snaps and neither one's even been been with the

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Speaker 1: team before last year, you know, right, all three other

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Speaker 1: quarterbacks because their other quarterback is Josh Dobbs, they've got

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Speaker 1: they've got three new quarterbacks and they've got to get

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Speaker 1: those guys ready to play. And if it's Deshaun Watson,

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Speaker 1: they have to get your You have to teach your

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Speaker 1: starter acclimated, but then he might not be your starter. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I don't know when day one, I'm treating for

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Speaker 1: sett like the starter. But that's a bad message. That

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Speaker 1: the san and the rest of the team, right, what

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Speaker 1: do Yeah? And then and then you're gonna get you know,

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Speaker 1: all your players are gonna be asked about that. Well,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about the Seawan getting all the

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Speaker 1: or getting the second team snaps or Jacoby Prossette getting

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Speaker 1: you know, of the first team. I mean it's that's

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Speaker 1: a huge, huge distraction. Yeah, and you really taught me

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Speaker 1: this years ago that what the players hate is not

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Speaker 1: that Lef Bell was sitting out, but I gotta answer

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Speaker 1: for him. You know that someone six of Mike in

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Speaker 1: my face and I have nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 1: I wish you were here. I'm gonna say all the

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Speaker 1: right things, but that's I don't want to talk about

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Speaker 1: another player who's a friend or whatever and their situation.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about my stuff. I don't talk

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Speaker 1: about the team. And it doesn't even matter how the

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Speaker 1: Watson thing goes now. I mean every Brown is going

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Speaker 1: to be you know, destroyed with this stuff going forward,

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Speaker 1: peppered with questions. Absolutely. Yeah. And then in Baltimore you

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Speaker 1: have the Lamar Jackson contract situation, which doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be any you know, he he's still negotiating for himself.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you do that and quarterback the

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Speaker 1: football team during a training camp situation, you have you

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Speaker 1: have seventy two guys coming back from injuries. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: you know Dobbins and Stanley and you know people they're

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Speaker 1: you know reports now that Dobbins may not be ready

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Speaker 1: to start the season. Um, you know, we don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going on with Stanley. Half the defense is coming

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Speaker 1: back off of injury. I mean, they they've got major questions.

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Speaker 1: They do, they do, and even it's down the line,

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Speaker 1: but a Jabo the second round pick, I mean, when's

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Speaker 1: he going to see the field? And you know, just

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Speaker 1: a lot of these when's he going to see the

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Speaker 1: field questions? But I think the Lamar one's the biggest attraction,

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Speaker 1: without question, is unlike Buffalo or you know someone else's. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the guys who are drafted

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Speaker 1: the same year as Lamar. It's it's a weird comparison

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Speaker 1: because Rosen's out the league and the other two guys

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Speaker 1: are in Carolina now. But if your guy was a

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Speaker 1: star and he's that age, he should be under contract.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the whole team wants to see that, expects

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Speaker 1: to see that. Yeah, And I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: saw this. Meant, this happened last week while while I

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Speaker 1: was on vacation. Uh did you see that DeShawn jack

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Speaker 1: or uh Lamar Jackson back and forth with with the

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Speaker 1: Bernard uh Pollard on Twitter a little. I didn't pay

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Speaker 1: much attention, though, Yeah, apparently you know Pollard saying you know,

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Speaker 1: things like not not necessarily I guess, basically saying that

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Speaker 1: that no things that we've actually said that no star

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Speaker 1: wide receivers ever going to want to sign with Ravens

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Speaker 1: because Lamar is just not a refined passer, and I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of drips firing back at him.

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Speaker 1: And it turned into a nasty back and forth on

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Speaker 1: Twitter with a guy who, you know, a player who

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Speaker 1: had been uh you know, a starter with the Ravens

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Speaker 1: for a while and their stark quarterback. Mhmm. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think he's an underrated passer. I mean, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think he's the worst thrower in the league.

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Speaker 1: But no one wants to go there if you're a

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Speaker 1: star receiver. I mean, because at all you're gonna catch

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Speaker 1: fifty passes. I mean, that's the that's the reality, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that's and you know you often say this, Matt,

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Speaker 1: that teams tell you what they think about their personnel

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Speaker 1: by the roster moves and what they asked those players

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Speaker 1: to do. We may think Lamar's better as a passer

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Speaker 1: than what he's shown, but the Ravens see him in

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Speaker 1: practice every day their coaching staff, and they don't ask

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Speaker 1: him to do a lot of that stuff. Well, see

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Speaker 1: this time last year, I think they told themselves, we

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Speaker 1: need to throw the ball more. And the first I

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Speaker 1: don't say month of the season they were closer to

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Speaker 1: league average and run past percentage because the running backs

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Speaker 1: and there were so many accentuating circumstances though, like it's

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Speaker 1: hard to see what their plan was then because the

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Speaker 1: defense couldn't play the way they wanted, they didn't have

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Speaker 1: the ball carriers they wanted, And then eventually they settled

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Speaker 1: in kind of like the Eagles. The Eagles threw the

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Speaker 1: ball a lot for the first six weeks or so

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Speaker 1: of the year and realized, well, that's dumb. Why are

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Speaker 1: we doing that? Right, We're good at one thing, we're

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Speaker 1: not good at the other. And Baltimore realized the same thing,

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Speaker 1: and again, go back to roster moves. If you're planning

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Speaker 1: to throw more, you don't trade Marquise Brown and replace

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Speaker 1: them with nobody, with nobody. That's the most shocking part

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Speaker 1: of that is that they replaced him with nobody. They

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Speaker 1: draft him. They drafted more tight ends. That was that

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Speaker 1: was their answer to solving that issue, was to go

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Speaker 1: out and draft three more tight ends. Yeah, right, right,

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Speaker 1: right man. They had the picks to do it, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Okay, supposedly they wanted Calvin Austin. That's fine,

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Speaker 1: but that wasn't their only opportunity. And there their twelve picks.

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Speaker 1: The add a receiver. Yes, they have to do it

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Speaker 1: through the draft, you know, like if for Seary Baton

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Speaker 1: was a free agent, I don't think it picked the

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Speaker 1: Ravens right right, And so that's that's certainly something that

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Speaker 1: to keep an eye on. Um. You know that, Lamar Jackson.

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Speaker 1: One of the big things. I think one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons why you one of the many reasons why you

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Speaker 1: should have an agent negotiate these deals, is it when

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Speaker 1: the team sits down to talk with you bluntly about

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Speaker 1: why they don't want to pay you this money or

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Speaker 1: that money. They're gonna point out your flaws. I just

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Speaker 1: mentioned Josh Allen, and I mean, if I was Lamar's

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Speaker 1: people agent whatever you know, you aim high, I would

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Speaker 1: go to the table with here's Josh Allen's contract. Why

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Speaker 1: don't you just sign it? And you know what, we'll

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Speaker 1: call it Lamar's contract. Well, Lamar, I'm sorry, you're the

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Speaker 1: one sitting on the other side of the the desk of me,

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Speaker 1: but you're not as good as Josh at this, this, this,

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Speaker 1: and this. You know, we still love you, don't worry,

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Speaker 1: but I'd rather be telling your agent this, not you

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Speaker 1: and your mom. Yeah, I I go back to I.

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Speaker 1: I did the Great Pittsburgh Sports Debate um at Tequila

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Speaker 1: Cowboy with Mike Pursuita and Tim Ben's and they brought

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Speaker 1: Sean Casey was there, the former, the former baseball player,

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Speaker 1: the Upper St. Clair uh native, and he was talking.

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Speaker 1: He told the story about how when he was up

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Speaker 1: for arbitration in baseball one year, because baseball is the arbitration,

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Speaker 1: they go in and they have a hearing and the

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Speaker 1: teams on one side and they have you know, they

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Speaker 1: have somebody there adjudicating the process, and so the team

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Speaker 1: states it's case about why the play should be paid

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Speaker 1: X amount of money and then the player and his

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Speaker 1: agent on it on the other side of the table,

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Speaker 1: and they stayed their case why they should be paid

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Speaker 1: more than that, and then the arbitrat two people will

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Speaker 1: staying there, you know, right, and then the arbitrator makes

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Speaker 1: a decision either splits the differenceory sides, you know, sides

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Speaker 1: with one side or the other. And Casey talked about

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Speaker 1: how sitting in that arbitration meeting and listening to the

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Speaker 1: team at that time, the man general manager was Jim Boden,

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Speaker 1: who now does Fantasy Radio on Sirius XM. And Boden

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Speaker 1: is also a Pittsburgh native. By the way, he said Boden,

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Speaker 1: you know, he was actually angry with Boden coming out

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Speaker 1: of that meeting because Boden said, hey, you don't you're

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Speaker 1: you're a clogger on the base paths and we you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't do this, you don't do that. And he's like,

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Speaker 1: I I batted over three hundred last year, I made

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Speaker 1: the All Star Game, you know, all that stuff. But

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Speaker 1: they're talking about all the stuff that I can't do. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I mean trials aren't friendly. Yeah, I was actually wondering

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Speaker 1: why you're telling that story. I was like, I wonder

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Speaker 1: if the players actually in the building. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be almost because they're gonna take it personally, right.

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Speaker 1: That's why you have an agent to handle those things,

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Speaker 1: not let alone the legal ease issues with everything, of course,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm sure the Jackson family has some sort of lawyer.

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Speaker 1: They give money to an agent, but yeah, they don't

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Speaker 1: just draw it up on a napkin and say, you know,

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Speaker 1: sign this. I mean, I'm sure they have somebody legal

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Speaker 1: look it over. But they shouldn't be in the room

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Speaker 1: for negotiations. No, absolutely not. But boy, that that ended

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Speaker 1: up before we even got into our the piece that

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about. We just killed the first

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Speaker 1: segment Matt talking about that stuff, So we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, we'll talk about that that article on

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Speaker 1: ESPN dot com when we come back. He is Matt Williamson.

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Speaker 1: I am Dale Lally. You're listening to the drive here

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Speaker 1: on Steelers Nation Radio. We'll be back with more right

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Speaker 1: after this