Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Matt Miller and
Speaker 1: I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2: All right, we have a very special guest this week,
Speaker 2: Stephen Winkleman, who is the CEO right now of Lamborghini.
Speaker 2: But he's worn so many hats in the automotive industry.
Speaker 1: He has to be one of the most interesting automotive
Speaker 1: chiefs around. You know, he was at Bugatti, he had
Speaker 1: the dual role of head of Bugatti and Lamborghini at
Speaker 1: the same time, which seems like insane, an insane job,
Speaker 1: but very fascinating guy.
Speaker 2: And at Audi Renschport and before that he was at Fiat.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I agree, he's up there with like Sergio
Speaker 2: Marcioni for me, yes, as one of the most interesting
Speaker 2: characters with some of the most experience of any of
Speaker 2: the execs that we talked to. So looking forward to
Speaker 2: that interview. I also want to hear a little bit
Speaker 2: more about your trip, because last time I talked to you,
Speaker 2: you said you were headed to Spain. I know you
Speaker 2: went to Sevilla or Seville as we call it here,
Speaker 2: and you know it's one of my favorite places. So
Speaker 2: how was it It.
Speaker 1: Was really fun, I have to say. Unfortunately the days
Speaker 1: that I was there Friday and Saturday, were the days
Speaker 1: that it rained.
Speaker 2: It's always at.
Speaker 1: I know, out of a whole month of beautiful skies,
Speaker 1: but it was wonderful. I went with Aston Martin to
Speaker 1: drive the new Vantage, which is the next generation, completely
Speaker 1: new performance numbers, some updated looks. Drove it on the
Speaker 1: Monteblanco circuit in Seville or outside of Seville, and then
Speaker 1: drove it for a couple hours in the rural areas
Speaker 1: around town, which was gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Very cool. I would drive straight over to Cordoba, Oh
Speaker 2: I love I mean, and check out the temple or
Speaker 2: whatever it is and all the cool houses there to.
Speaker 1: Say, Seville is so beautiful. Of course the old cathedral there.
Speaker 1: And I did not know this, but that was where
Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus sailed out of Oh yeah, on his way
Speaker 1: to the quote.
Speaker 2: Unquote Crystal Ball Cologne. Yeah. I love it, and I
Speaker 2: did love the Asston when I saw the pictures at
Speaker 2: first when it came out, I thought, wow, it's it's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Now you posted some on Instagram that I thought it
Speaker 2: looked a little bit too much like the Nissan Z
Speaker 2: for me think.
Speaker 1: At least coloring. Yeah, that that has to be a
Speaker 1: color thing. And I have to say I can't really
Speaker 1: talk about driving impressions yet because I'm under an embargo,
Speaker 1: but I can talk about how it looks. And I
Speaker 1: think your take is because the one that I drove
Speaker 1: was like a Nissan orange with black wheels, and I
Speaker 1: don't recommend it an orange, but I think there are
Speaker 1: some gorgeous silvers and sort of gold colors and gray
Speaker 1: colors that make it look really pretty. This car, this
Speaker 1: vantage is actually a little bit wider than the previous
Speaker 1: generation and has got some you.
Speaker 2: Know, yips, got some hips on it, got some.
Speaker 1: Hips on it, and got some air vents and sort
Speaker 1: of new arrow and the grills slightly even bigger. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't bother me. I thought it looked great. I
Speaker 1: would not get an orange, I think, I don't think.
Speaker 2: I agree. I think with Lamborghini, I would never do that.
Speaker 2: I would get orange or like acid green. But with
Speaker 2: the with the ones that you had at least on
Speaker 2: your Instagram at Hannah Elliott X Oh, I like the silver.
Speaker 2: I'd go with the more s dude color.
Speaker 1: And let's be honest, that instantly makes you think of
Speaker 1: a dB five or dB six. It takes you back
Speaker 1: to the Bond days. You cannot go wrong. Actually, Aston
Speaker 1: Martin says their most popular color is there green. They're
Speaker 1: racing green, which is the same color as their Formula
Speaker 1: One team, and they said when they debuted this, this
Speaker 1: particular green with their racing team, that is the moment
Speaker 1: when in the production cars this green became the most
Speaker 1: popular color. It's interesting though it's not a true British
Speaker 1: racing green has a little bit of blue in it.
Speaker 1: It's very specific to Asston Martin. But yeah, they did
Speaker 1: tell me that that is their most popular color for
Speaker 1: their production cars. But yeah, I would get personally, I
Speaker 1: like a silver Do you have silver?
Speaker 2: Do you have a favorite Bond car or a Bond vehicle?
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I would tell you the Lotus just
Speaker 1: to be contrarian a suir, of course, just to be just.
Speaker 2: I mean when I first saw that, I think I
Speaker 2: saw that movie in the theater. That thing goes amphibious
Speaker 2: and it's awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very cool.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: I don't. I can't say that I'm a massive Bond fan.
Speaker 1: I mean, of course it's iconic and I do like
Speaker 1: Daniel Craig as as Bond. He's probably to answer your
Speaker 1: unasked question, He's probably my favorite Bond. But I also
Speaker 1: didn't have a problem with Pierce Brosnan either.
Speaker 2: I agree with you on Daniel Craig, you know, I
Speaker 2: mean everyone, the automatic answer is Sean Connery, and because
Speaker 2: he's got for me in it for so long, I
Speaker 2: loved or More as well. Sure, but I think Daniel
Speaker 2: Craig is the best Bond. I was only asking because
Speaker 2: I recently saw in bat that Moke has a Bond edition,
Speaker 2: because in the first few movies, I guess there was
Speaker 2: a Moke somewhere in the film, and so there's a
Speaker 2: Bond Moke, which is pretty awesome. I also like the
Speaker 2: Triumph Scrambler that he wrote in the last one. I
Speaker 2: love a scrambler, but I didn't like the last movie
Speaker 2: so much. I digress, I digress.
Speaker 1: Yes, anyway, Saville was great, amazing food, of course, as
Speaker 1: you might expect, and yeah, just any I didn't see
Speaker 1: any flamenco unfortunately, you know. To be quite honest, I
Speaker 1: was there for about thirty six to forty eight hours,
Speaker 1: and most of that time was on a rape on
Speaker 1: the racetrack, so I didn't I need to go back
Speaker 1: and have some actual cultural moments there.
Speaker 4: I agree.
Speaker 2: The car it's such a it's such a hot place
Speaker 2: for car and motorcycle debuts because the weather's so nice.
Speaker 1: There are many in Spain this year, Bentley, Porsche, Aston Martin.
Speaker 1: There are going to be.
Speaker 2: Quite It's also did you know, I'm sure you do
Speaker 2: that almost all Lamborghinis are named after famous Spanish bulls. Yes,
Speaker 2: which is weird because Lamborghini's obviously very Italian, right, but
Speaker 2: they name all of their cars after Spanish bulls.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I like that, you know what. Let's change the subject
Speaker 2: and we'll go to the CEO of the Spanish bull
Speaker 2: car maker. Let's get more from our interview now with
Speaker 2: Stefan Winckelmann. Let's get you first to give us a
Speaker 2: little bit of your CV or your timeline, because you've
Speaker 2: had important positions at some of the most impressive car
Speaker 2: makers in the world. So how did you get started
Speaker 2: and how did you do this round trip from Lambo
Speaker 2: to Lambo.
Speaker 3: I was more into motorbikes actually when I grow up,
Speaker 3: because I grew up in Rome, and in Rome, due
Speaker 3: to the weather, there was no law for helmet. So
Speaker 3: for me was the first love was driving motorbikes. And
Speaker 3: then when I studied, I studied political sciences. I wanted
Speaker 3: to be a professional soldier and I did the two
Speaker 3: years in the army and then I decided not to
Speaker 3: do it, and so I had to reinvent myself and
Speaker 3: by chance I started with a trainee in the commercial
Speaker 3: department of Mercedes Benz and then they were looking for bilingual,
Speaker 3: perfect bilingual German and Italians in Fiatauto at that time.
Speaker 2: So you were born in Berlin and then your parents
Speaker 2: moved to Romani exactly.
Speaker 4: I was born in Berlin.
Speaker 3: My parents moved to Italy to Rome when I was
Speaker 3: a baby, and when I joined Fiat, I was there
Speaker 3: for eleven years.
Speaker 4: And then there.
Speaker 3: Came a call from the Volkslan group and they offered
Speaker 3: me the position of CEO of Lamborghini. A lot of
Speaker 3: my friends said not to go because it was a
Speaker 3: hire and fireplace, and I said, at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, this is an opportunity which is coming once
Speaker 3: in a lifetime that you have and let's say responsibility,
Speaker 3: a global responsibility from development or purchasing, production, marketing and sales,
Speaker 3: which was my let's say my starting point in Fiat
Speaker 3: and Mercedes, and so I started and I never regretted.
Speaker 3: There were eleven years which were outstanding. We had a
Speaker 3: lot of things we achieved. I had the opportunity and
Speaker 3: or to make the launch of the Aventa or of
Speaker 3: the Hura Can, to introduce all the the dairy ways,
Speaker 3: also to have the one offs and a few off
Speaker 3: strategies started, and to work a lot on the brand.
Speaker 3: This was something which is incredible. And then the group
Speaker 3: asked me to move to our the Sport Our. The
Speaker 3: Sport is a company in embedded and the Audi AG
Speaker 3: so it's a different approach.
Speaker 4: It was interesting.
Speaker 3: But then there was the opportunity to go to Bugatti
Speaker 3: because Bugatti was let's say a company which they wanted
Speaker 3: to develop and they asked me. At the time Mattias
Speaker 3: Muller told me what you did in Lamborghini was something
Speaker 3: which we would like also to see happening with Bugatti.
Speaker 4: And then he was gone after four months.
Speaker 2: And Mattis Muller, that was sad for me because he
Speaker 2: was like my German namesake. Okay, you know running Volkswagen.
Speaker 2: You so you started under Pich.
Speaker 4: I started at that time it was no, it was
Speaker 4: not Pie.
Speaker 3: It was Pitchitzi at that time, and then Wintercon. Then
Speaker 3: it was Mattias Muller, and then at the NDS, and
Speaker 3: now it's Olive O Bloom.
Speaker 1: What was your key to success working with those guys?
Speaker 1: I mean, those are those are some sort of notorious bosses.
Speaker 1: What did you learn from working around them? And what
Speaker 1: was the key to your survival navigating that time?
Speaker 3: You know, the toughest school I had was in Fiat Auto,
Speaker 3: and I have to say that my mentors in Fiat
Speaker 3: without having official mentors, this was something which was not existing.
Speaker 4: In Fiat at that time.
Speaker 3: They teach me always to face your fears, never to
Speaker 3: give up, always to go ahead, and to be honest
Speaker 3: because all along you have to watch in the mirror
Speaker 3: every day, so you cannot hide from the truth. And
Speaker 3: this was something which I appreciated because it's easy to say,
Speaker 3: but if you are always and let's say in a
Speaker 3: sandwich position and big corporations are like this, it was
Speaker 3: important for me and from in the folks line group
Speaker 3: for me, let's say, the longest CEO I was serving
Speaker 3: for was Martin mintach On as the and he was
Speaker 3: the maniac I sally. He is, in my opinion, about products,
Speaker 3: about details, so he.
Speaker 4: Gave us.
Speaker 3: The focus on the product, which I really appreciated. Mattias
Speaker 3: Muller is wasn't He's a friend, so we always had
Speaker 3: a very good relation and he trusted me. And Oliver
Speaker 3: Bloomer is a different type of style, but he's somebody
Speaker 3: who is looking very much into the future. He has
Speaker 3: a strategy and I really appreciate to be in his team.
Speaker 2: By the way I want, I feel like Matthias Muller
Speaker 2: is a true Faber. You know. I guess this won't
Speaker 2: be as interesting for everybody around the world, but in
Speaker 2: Germany people are very different if they're from you know,
Speaker 2: the Black Forest exactly, or Berlin.
Speaker 3: Matthias Muller was from eastern Germany by burs Or. He
Speaker 3: is from eastern Germany by Bursa, but he is more
Speaker 3: He worked then for Porsche, but he was for the
Speaker 3: longest time of.
Speaker 4: His career he was in Audi so his dialect is
Speaker 4: very Bavarian. I don't know if you remember that. And
Speaker 4: when he moved and I think he still lives in Shortga.
Speaker 2: Now I was just guessing I was wrong. I I
Speaker 2: just feel like I just feel like he would look
Speaker 2: good with the mustache, and that's like, what the schwab do?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: So, who were you looking at as people that you
Speaker 1: admired and respected, either you know, just personally or professionally.
Speaker 1: And I'm asking because you know, we've known each other
Speaker 1: for so long at this point, but most of our
Speaker 1: conversations are very focused on the business. But I kind
Speaker 1: of wanted to learn more about you and your development
Speaker 1: because you've been around for you know, you've been at
Speaker 1: the turk for a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's difficult to say. For most my father he
Speaker 3: was somebody I was looking up to. He was never
Speaker 3: somebody who was telling me what to do and how
Speaker 3: to do, but he was always giving me guidelines and
Speaker 3: something which I appreciate now that he's not in this
Speaker 3: world anymore. And I understood a lot at my age
Speaker 3: today on how he acted and why. So it was
Speaker 3: always a given that he was present the moments when
Speaker 3: I needed the most, and it was clear that I
Speaker 3: had to study after after high school, but he was
Speaker 3: never pushing me in one direction. And and also when
Speaker 3: I said that I wanted to be a professional soldier,
Speaker 3: he was.
Speaker 4: Maybe shocked, was he not.
Speaker 1: He was not a military man, No, he was.
Speaker 3: He was a diplomat for the United Nations for this
Speaker 3: special organization which is the headquarter in Rome, which is
Speaker 3: called the Food and Agricultural Organization the FAO. So this
Speaker 3: is the reason why I grew up in Italyan and Rome.
Speaker 2: And you would have been an Italian soldier or you
Speaker 2: were to join the Bundesweer.
Speaker 3: I was in the German Army. I was a paratrooper,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to This was what I wanted to be.
Speaker 3: I wanted to be in the in the now, in
Speaker 3: the culture.
Speaker 4: Exactly, very cool.
Speaker 2: It's also interesting to me that you were in the
Speaker 2: kind of Agnelli clan like you were in the Ferrari group,
Speaker 2: and then you went to run Lamborghini. What what's that relationship?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Is there a rivalry? They're both in the motor valley, right,
Speaker 2: but they're very they're seen I think, very differently culturally.
Speaker 2: They have very different clientele. I would think, how do
Speaker 2: you view that.
Speaker 3: Fiat Auto is something which is not existing today anymore?
Speaker 3: And Ferrari is in let's say, is a made in
Speaker 3: Italy and it's an icon not only in Italy but
Speaker 3: worldwide and Lamborghini was an underdog for decades now, it
Speaker 3: was not very successful company. Only in the last time
Speaker 3: we were or we are working on eye level. In
Speaker 3: my opinion, we are very different in terms of approach.
Speaker 3: Our careers are very recognizable, and I think it's good
Speaker 3: to be let's say, rivals, but also very close because
Speaker 3: we learn. At least I learned a lot from Fiata Auto,
Speaker 3: but also from my the Ferrari guys. I know a
Speaker 3: lot of them and I only can tell positive things,
Speaker 3: so there is rivalry. We have different products, very different
Speaker 3: from the DNA and the approach, but at the end
Speaker 3: we serve the same customer type.
Speaker 2: Rich because I think of you know, if I go
Speaker 2: to if I go to a Ferrari challenge, you know,
Speaker 2: weekend Lime Rock or like a Lamborghini driving school in Vegas.
Speaker 2: There's a different kind of yes, dude.
Speaker 3: For sure, we have younger customers with people which want
Speaker 3: to be recognized in their cars. They're very proud, they
Speaker 3: love made in Italy. But also the Ferai guys. I
Speaker 3: have this attitude and I would never say something negative
Speaker 3: about Ferrari.
Speaker 4: You will not.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to tease that out of you.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm curious. Did you watch the Ferrari movie partially?
Speaker 1: Did you? What was your impression boring? I saw the
Speaker 1: whole thing at a screening, and I love Penelope Crews. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's my take.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: But the thing that was impressed upon me in that movie,
Speaker 2: and I guess I knew already, was that Enzo Ferrari
Speaker 2: sold cars to race, whereas I think a company like
Speaker 2: Portia races to sell cars, right. But for Lamborghini, there
Speaker 2: is really I mean, there is racing, but it's not
Speaker 2: really part of your DNA like those other companies.
Speaker 3: Flamborghini. When he founded the company, he said, I don't
Speaker 3: have to prove that I'm able to do the best guys,
Speaker 3: the best super spots guards. So I am not going
Speaker 3: into racing because it's a matter of fact that ours
Speaker 3: are the best in my opinion.
Speaker 4: Things change.
Speaker 3: So we started with the one make race series in
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, which we called super Trofeit we
Speaker 3: start at first in Europe, then we have also won
Speaker 3: in North America and one in Asia. It's very successful
Speaker 3: until today, and then we stepped up into GT.
Speaker 4: Three.
Speaker 3: All these type of races have a similarity to oh
Speaker 3: they are still into gentlemen drivers' attitude. You can recognize
Speaker 3: the street legal car on the racetrack, so our Hura
Speaker 3: can looks very much the same if it's a.
Speaker 4: GT three or street legal car.
Speaker 3: Also super trofil And now we entered this LMDh or
Speaker 3: the hypercar idea, and this was a tough decision for us,
Speaker 3: but it came at the right time. Why because we
Speaker 3: have a hybrid system, which.
Speaker 4: Is now what we're doing with all our lineup.
Speaker 3: We were racing with WEC and IMSA, which is also
Speaker 3: very positive, so we have a worldwide visibility. They told
Speaker 3: us that it's going to be an overseeable budget, so
Speaker 3: this was another reason why. And last but not least,
Speaker 3: also the fact that you have it's endurance racing, so
Speaker 3: you have a lot of good results in terms of
Speaker 3: testing materials and things like this, which is then also
Speaker 3: useful in the serious production. So these are the things
Speaker 3: we came late. We came one year later than the others.
Speaker 3: And yeah, now we're looking forward to Lemon this year,
Speaker 3: which is the will be the most important.
Speaker 4: Race of the year.
Speaker 1: I guess now we can sort of dig into the
Speaker 1: car thing. And you know you mentioned that it was
Speaker 1: not a foregone conclusion that you would get into racing,
Speaker 1: and that it was a difficult decision. What were some
Speaker 1: of the arguments to not get involved, just so we
Speaker 1: can understand what's the debate on the other side of
Speaker 1: not doing it.
Speaker 3: That you don't have the money, that you don't have
Speaker 3: the head count, that you don't have time to do so,
Speaker 3: that you're losing, so that you're not competitive. All these
Speaker 3: fears are part of the business because you have a
Speaker 3: name which you have to defend. And so when we
Speaker 3: decide that we decided to start slow with the one
Speaker 3: makes a serious and therefore to step into it peer
Speaker 3: a peer, and it worked out so far. It's it's
Speaker 3: I think it's the right approach because we are not
Speaker 3: having a company in the company because Big OEMs they
Speaker 3: really have hundreds of people working for motorsports, which we don't.
Speaker 3: We have a very limited budget, so we have to
Speaker 3: work with partners and this is limiting also the opportunities
Speaker 3: not to be to be big and to to win
Speaker 3: big races. But I think it's the it's what people
Speaker 3: expect and first of all is what we want to
Speaker 3: be because we want to, let's say, challenge ourselves also
Speaker 3: in racing and not only in street legal.
Speaker 2: By the way. By the way, the Event to Door
Speaker 2: was for a long time my all time favorite car.
Speaker 2: I actually met you on the circuit they f one
Speaker 2: circuit in Barcelona when I first drove the Event to
Speaker 2: Door SV, which was awesome. Recently I got to drive
Speaker 2: the what happened?
Speaker 4: That was the day when they gave us the okay
Speaker 4: on the.
Speaker 2: Yes so long ago. Yeah, anyway, that was a very
Speaker 2: memorable time for me. So but recently I got to
Speaker 2: drive the Hurrican Stato. And I've driven the Hurrican before
Speaker 2: at different racing schools and stuff, and it's obviously the
Speaker 2: track focused weapon of your arsenal, but the Strato changed
Speaker 2: everything for me. I think it was the most fun
Speaker 2: I've ever had driving a car off the track, you know,
Speaker 2: not off road, because I wasn't allowed to take it
Speaker 2: off road.
Speaker 1: But I think the question is do you get many
Speaker 1: customers crying in your cars, because apparently the car broped
Speaker 1: Matt to tears in.
Speaker 2: A happy one. What he said, it was just the
Speaker 2: brute of the engine combined with you know, the compliance
Speaker 2: of the suspension was just such an amazing experience, and
Speaker 2: the ultimate question is what comes next because the eventa
Speaker 2: door has been replaced now by the rib Welto, so
Speaker 2: we know what the twelve cylinder follow on is what
Speaker 2: comes now after the hurrican.
Speaker 4: But we will have the new Racan.
Speaker 3: We will present the second part in the second part
Speaker 3: of the year here in the US, so it will
Speaker 3: be a very important event.
Speaker 4: It will be the world premiere.
Speaker 3: And what we're trying to do in Lamborghini, even with
Speaker 3: limited resources, is always to, let's say, to do something
Speaker 3: which is unexpected now, and the Serrato was something like this,
Speaker 3: and we said, we have a four wheel drive system,
Speaker 3: we have Araca, which is a robust, we have the
Speaker 3: best quality. Ever, why can't we do something which is
Speaker 3: not off fraud but off the concrete. No strato means
Speaker 3: the one which is on dusty roads.
Speaker 2: I took it, by the way, on the oldest unpaved
Speaker 2: road in America. Oh yeah, you see, yeah, from the
Speaker 2: Revolutionary War, just about fifty miles north of here. It
Speaker 2: was very cool.
Speaker 3: So, and it's a car which is not only lifestyle
Speaker 3: and it's for example, I think in the US, but
Speaker 3: also and the rest of the world. With all the
Speaker 3: potholes in the cities. It's a car which is even
Speaker 3: more easy to drive than comfortable. And on top of that,
Speaker 3: if you go on the race, seg off road so
Speaker 3: much fun. And I think that a car company like
Speaker 3: ours can do things like this, and we were daring
Speaker 3: to do so, and the success for me was expected.
Speaker 3: For others was unexpected, but for me it was very
Speaker 3: much expected.
Speaker 1: It does seem to me that Lamborghini is a company
Speaker 1: that isn't afraid to have a little bit of fun.
Speaker 1: I know, certainly your protective of the brand and the image,
Speaker 1: and it's really a good point when you say, look,
Speaker 1: you have to worry about losing it. When you join
Speaker 1: a racing series, you could lose and that doesn't reflect well.
Speaker 1: But it does seem like Lamborghini is a little more
Speaker 1: open to playfulness. Is that accurate? And how do you
Speaker 1: give that image without actually exposing yourself to too big
Speaker 1: of a risk.
Speaker 3: But I think that if you buy a Lamborghini, you
Speaker 3: don't buy the car because you need it, but because
Speaker 3: you want to have a dream fulfilled And also in
Speaker 3: terms of racing, maybe I forgot to say if we lose,
Speaker 3: we lose in style, not because everybody recognizes that we
Speaker 3: are the smallest or we am in a big series,
Speaker 3: so they see what is happening. When we have one
Speaker 3: car on the grid, there are others which have three
Speaker 3: or five and this is clearly then giving you the
Speaker 3: idea of what is happening. And for sure we have
Speaker 3: to do things which others don't dare to do, and
Speaker 3: in my opinion, this is one of the things. And
Speaker 3: we always talk to our people and we ask them
Speaker 3: to come up with ideas and they set out to
Speaker 3: as just an example, and who knows what is coming next.
Speaker 3: So all the attempts we did on the essents I
Speaker 3: know which was the last of a kind in terms
Speaker 3: of B twelve based on the Aventa thor as a
Speaker 3: not amligated car, which is it was an incredible success
Speaker 3: and we did it and we risk to lose, but
Speaker 3: it was very well perceived.
Speaker 2: I would like to have one of those. By the way,
Speaker 2: after you work at Audi, Rnchport and Bugatti and Lamborghini,
Speaker 2: I would expect that if I go into your personal
Speaker 2: garage at home, you've got a hirone sitting there, maybe
Speaker 2: in RS six.
Speaker 1: I mean I've seen him in a Bugatti, you know.
Speaker 2: An eventa door like one of the limited editions. What
Speaker 2: have you got at home?
Speaker 4: So, first of all, I'm not that rich.
Speaker 3: Second, I don't have any car which is belonging to
Speaker 3: me because I don't have space. And frankly speaking, I
Speaker 3: love to drive cars, but I also know that if
Speaker 3: you have historical cars, which I like and I appreciate,
Speaker 3: you have to take care of them. And I don't
Speaker 3: have time, and I don't want to bother others to
Speaker 3: take care of my staff. There are cars which I
Speaker 3: love but I cannot afford for sure, and others I
Speaker 3: could afford, but I never bought because of what I said.
Speaker 1: Now, but when you one day, So you don't own
Speaker 1: a single car, no, no one, Okay, what about a motorcycle?
Speaker 1: Motorcycles don't have the space issue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, but.
Speaker 4: It's no.
Speaker 3: I don't own a motorbike, but I still I'm always
Speaker 3: tempted to buy one.
Speaker 2: I can't believe like Cloudio dominically doesn't at least give
Speaker 2: you a motorbike.
Speaker 3: Just now. You always asked me if I want to,
Speaker 3: I can drive whatever I want. He gives me always
Speaker 3: the opportunity.
Speaker 1: You might actually have a very smart idea, which is
Speaker 1: you get access to all of these things, but you
Speaker 1: don't have the headache and the responsibility of actually owning
Speaker 1: any of them.
Speaker 4: So far.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, if we speak about let's say today's production cars,
Speaker 3: if we speak about let's say historic cars, then for
Speaker 3: sure or not.
Speaker 4: No, but this is something which I could not afford.
Speaker 1: I have to say, but you clearly do love driving
Speaker 1: and experiencing the automobiles, and I my memory of you
Speaker 1: is on the Milli Milia. You were in a Bugatti
Speaker 1: with a beautiful woman along the route. Not to say
Speaker 1: too much, but she was gorgeous and it just I mean,
Speaker 1: in the middle of Italy in the summer, it just
Speaker 1: was the most beautiful scene, and I know it just
Speaker 1: seemed very much like, oh, this is such a beautiful
Speaker 1: slice of life in that moment. You certainly do enjoy
Speaker 1: the experience of driving roads in wonderful cars.
Speaker 3: Have to say that, I'm one of the few lucky
Speaker 3: persons which can combine this type of atmosphere and experience
Speaker 3: with your job now and also to test those cards
Speaker 3: in different different environments. So for me, this is something
Speaker 3: which I I am very happy and glad that I
Speaker 3: have the opportunity to do so. And therefore I feel blessed.
Speaker 3: What that's Can I say?
Speaker 2: Yes? Congratulations? Congratulations, dude, you win. Let me ask about
Speaker 2: a little bit about the ev future because you now
Speaker 2: have basically two plug in hybrids, right, I mean.
Speaker 4: Two, and we will get the third one.
Speaker 3: You have the revwelto, we have the awerdo that now,
Speaker 3: the Urus essay, and then there will be the follower
Speaker 3: of the Huracan, and.
Speaker 2: The follow of the Hurricane also will be a plug
Speaker 2: in hybrid.
Speaker 4: Also would be a plug in hybrid.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us any more about the power train? No?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: All right? So what about the full battery electric vehicle
Speaker 2: that you have in store the Lanza door? Is that
Speaker 2: gonna be? Is there any chance there will be like
Speaker 2: an internal combustion what they used to call a range extender,
Speaker 2: because I was thinking if you put one of the
Speaker 2: Ducati Panagali V fours in there, it could help with
Speaker 2: the sound and with the vibes, the smells. You know,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be fully evy.
Speaker 4: We would never put something which is not our engine
Speaker 4: inside our cars.
Speaker 2: But you know the things, you know that there was
Speaker 2: a there was a concept with the Panagali twin, with
Speaker 2: the eleven ninety nine twin I remember, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 4: Not for Lamborghini.
Speaker 2: No, it was just was it just a Volkswagen?
Speaker 4: Was not for Lambo? No, no, it was not for Lambo.
Speaker 4: But what I can tell you is that we think
Speaker 4: a lot. The first of all, the meta of sustainability
Speaker 4: is not coming.
Speaker 3: From out of this world. It's a meta which everybody
Speaker 3: has to take care of. There are people which these
Speaker 3: which were democratically elected.
Speaker 4: They make the rules.
Speaker 1: We have.
Speaker 3: A few requests as a manufacturer of our size, that
Speaker 3: there is a let's say that the rules are the
Speaker 3: same all over the world, which will should be one
Speaker 3: of the things we have to take care And then
Speaker 3: it's clear that if the rules and the laws are
Speaker 3: coming quicker than the technology is accepted, or if the
Speaker 3: infrastructure is in place, then it has to be adjusted.
Speaker 3: It can be diluted. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: we all have our responsibility, which is greater than just
Speaker 3: driving a super sports car. So I would always say
Speaker 3: that if we would be the only ones exempt to
Speaker 3: do I don't know, sustainable cars, this would be very
Speaker 3: bad for our image and we would disappear from the market.
Speaker 4: I'm sure about that.
Speaker 3: So we have to do something which is accepting the
Speaker 3: challenge and continuing to do cars really dream, make the
Speaker 3: people dream. In my opinion, the opportunities also for electric
Speaker 3: cars to be very, very emotional. This is not the
Speaker 3: case today, in my opinion, is a bit too early.
Speaker 3: But the five six also ten years down the road,
Speaker 3: with all the technology which is coming up, I see
Speaker 3: that there is a good opportunity that the things are
Speaker 3: going to change for us. We don't need to decide.
Speaker 3: Now we have the hybrid cars, we can keep them running.
Speaker 3: Also after thirty five, if synthetic fuel is going to
Speaker 3: be an option, for example, this is something we always
Speaker 3: look into. The first full electric car will not be
Speaker 3: the pure super sports car like the Reuerto, but more
Speaker 3: daily driver. The Lansador is a two plus two GT
Speaker 3: car with more let's say, ground clearance, and this is
Speaker 3: something which in our opinion could work also for Lamborghini Enthosiassy.
Speaker 1: Bridgs to me for a minute, seem like it was
Speaker 1: just a bit of a bridge technology to go from
Speaker 1: combustion to ELEC track. But now it's starting to feel
Speaker 1: like they're here to stay the reviable platform and they
Speaker 1: have a lot of benefits on both sides. And this
Speaker 1: is an actual part of the business planet. It's not
Speaker 1: just a stepping stone. It sounds like that's what you're
Speaker 1: saying for Lamborghini as well.
Speaker 3: Yes, for sure, because if for us it's clear now,
Speaker 3: we have always to promise that the next car is
Speaker 3: going to be more performing than the actual one. And
Speaker 3: the new commitment we have to give is also that
Speaker 3: they are less emissions included, so the CO two missions
Speaker 3: have to drop dramatically also for our type of car,
Speaker 3: even though we are not making the difference now in
Speaker 3: the CO two emissions worldwide with our few thousand cars
Speaker 3: a year which are not even driven on a daily base.
Speaker 3: But it's also a matter of but our footprint of
Speaker 3: the brand is much bigger than the footprint of the cars,
Speaker 3: so we have to take care. And in my opinion,
Speaker 3: this challenge to be accepted, and we see it with
Speaker 3: the WELT to that WEL, so we call it not
Speaker 3: a plug in hybrid but a high performance electric vehicle.
Speaker 3: So we inverted the P and H and this is
Speaker 3: working I gave, but all of us accepted. This is
Speaker 3: a very simple briefing to the engineers by saying that
Speaker 3: if I go on the racetrack with the Riulto and
Speaker 3: he comes back into the pit lane. Then the battery
Speaker 3: never has to be empty, which in other words means
Speaker 3: that you never drive around with an additional weight which
Speaker 3: is not used because the battery is empty. And this
Speaker 3: is something which is happening, and you can do a
Speaker 3: lot of labs and the battery is still reloaded and
Speaker 3: it's giving you the additional power but also the reduction
Speaker 3: of the seattle emissions. So this is something which we
Speaker 3: think is here to stay, but it needs also to
Speaker 3: have an update when it comes.
Speaker 4: To the year thirty five.
Speaker 3: Here in the US, for example, in California, you are
Speaker 3: this zero emission vehicle legislation which is not one hundred
Speaker 3: percent clear on how this is going to be ending up.
Speaker 3: But in Europe today is thirty five or thirty six.
Speaker 3: For the small manufacturers you have to have electric cars.
Speaker 3: If this is changing into synthetic fuels and something which
Speaker 3: is changing in this direction, we would be happy. But
Speaker 3: also for all the hundreds of millions of cars which
Speaker 3: will run in ee eenterin so in internal combustion engines
Speaker 3: after thirty five, to have synthetic fuel would be a
Speaker 3: big help.
Speaker 1: How much time do you need to pivot in order
Speaker 1: to hit those targets which do seem to be changing.
Speaker 1: I know, obviously you want to allow yourself a little
Speaker 1: bit of space to change direction if you need.
Speaker 3: To, but usually you develop a car, you need four
Speaker 3: four to five years. So this is something we are
Speaker 3: lucky because we are changing all the lineup. Now we
Speaker 3: don't have to decide immediately, and we can also see
Speaker 3: what is going to happen. But sooner or later you
Speaker 3: have to put the cards down.
Speaker 1: Can you just educate us a little bit about the
Speaker 1: considerations going into how you price something like an urus
Speaker 1: and then how you would price the hybrid compared to
Speaker 1: the internal combustion version. I'm just actually curious. I've never
Speaker 1: asked you that before.
Speaker 4: So for us, the roots are a bit different. Now
Speaker 4: you have high investments, low volumes. This is the trigger.
Speaker 4: So high investments, low volumes, you need.
Speaker 3: To have a price positioning, and we are not positioning
Speaker 3: because it's luxury. We are positioning because we have the
Speaker 3: latest technology. We have very exclusive materials in the cards,
Speaker 3: so there is a reason why, and it's for sure
Speaker 3: that we need to have enough earnings to reinvest in
Speaker 3: the future. We are in front of the biggest investment
Speaker 3: into the future of this company. So it's hear that
Speaker 3: we need to have this and if we want to
Speaker 3: stay exclusive, if we want not to spoil it, then
Speaker 3: we have to have, let's say, a price stability and
Speaker 3: a price positioning.
Speaker 4: The pricing is not out of this world.
Speaker 3: So also in our range you have a comparison with
Speaker 3: the other manufacturers, you position yourself because there is a
Speaker 3: size of the segment of the market of the day
Speaker 3: weight and this is the point. The step between in
Speaker 3: turn combustion engines and the plug in hybrids is an
Speaker 3: important one. We have to say it's an increase of
Speaker 3: the price tag because there is a higher cost inside.
Speaker 3: And this is something which is accepted by our customers
Speaker 3: because they see that this is the next technology and
Speaker 3: it is so far more expensive.
Speaker 2: Than a substantial increase.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, it depends on the car. But on the
Speaker 4: for example, on the on the Urtles is not the case,
Speaker 4: but on the Reworld it was the case. But because
Speaker 4: it's a complet new developmental for a complete new car.
Speaker 2: All right, So that was our interview with Stefan Winckelman.
Speaker 2: It was awesome having him here.
Speaker 1: I cannot believe he admitted to not owning a car.
Speaker 1: I think he's the first automotive boss that has ever
Speaker 1: said that, and it's very cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's in a way I think takes a little
Speaker 2: bit of kahonas for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean he doesn't. He's just like, hey, he doesn't.
Speaker 1: He's got access to everything.
Speaker 2: I mean, so I thought, you have to buy a
Speaker 2: Bugatti after you've been working in Mulheim and you know,
Speaker 2: running the company. But he makes a very good point.
Speaker 2: They are three million dollars. Not everybody has that kind
Speaker 2: of disposal income.
Speaker 1: Well, when his first reaction is he can't afford it, honestly,
Speaker 1: my thought is, can't you get a deal?
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a good thing. That's a good point. But
Speaker 2: he gets to drive him whenever he wants. I was
Speaker 2: with him in the bilster Berg when I had my
Speaker 2: turn on the Hirona and it was amazing.
Speaker 4: That's cool.
Speaker 2: And obviously he gets drive Lambos all the time, and
Speaker 2: he can probably take anything from the Volkswagen stable.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess he's friends of the Ferrari people, so you
Speaker 2: can take some of their cars once in a while too,
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean there's so much there. I really want to
Speaker 1: dig into this whole idea that he wanted to be
Speaker 1: a military man. I think that is so interesting, and
Speaker 1: that's another I don't know, it's just very unique. You
Speaker 1: don't hear many people say they had wanted to join
Speaker 1: the military and then they had to do with sort
Speaker 1: of a plan. B.
Speaker 2: By the way, I mentioned a Lamborghini concept with a
Speaker 2: Dukati motor. I was wrong. I've googled it now. It
Speaker 2: was a Volkswagen concept. It looked a little bit like
Speaker 2: a Lamborghini, but it was the Folkswagen XL Sport. It
Speaker 2: was their hybrid that had a Panagali motor, back when
Speaker 2: the Panagali was only two cylinders but still making one
Speaker 2: hundred and ninety seven horsepower. I just think it's so cool,
Speaker 2: and because to me, you know, when BMW had the
Speaker 2: I three with the range extender, that's what they called it.
Speaker 2: It was just I think a one point three leader
Speaker 2: three cylinder motor. I thought it was a great idea
Speaker 2: because then you you know, you're going to use the
Speaker 2: all electric normally, but at least you have the sound
Speaker 2: or the possibility of extending your range or like the
Speaker 2: vibes in the little gasoline smell, you know. I think
Speaker 2: it'd be cool if they did that with the Lanza door,
Speaker 2: but they're not gonna do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to see. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't sense that they are necessarily going to go
Speaker 1: any which way by twenty twenty. I mean, they can
Speaker 1: pivot again.
Speaker 2: It's getting close, though, he said, you know, four to
Speaker 2: five years is the runway for a car developing a car,
Speaker 2: and twenty twenty eight is like four years away. Kind
Speaker 2: of what have you got coming up this week?
Speaker 1: Well, you know what. This weekend is Miami Formula one,
Speaker 1: so it's going to be a very intense weekend. I'm
Speaker 1: going to head down there. Ferrari will be unveiling a
Speaker 1: new car in Miami, so I'm very excited about that.
Speaker 2: Do you know anything about what kind of car?
Speaker 1: They are very tight lipped on.
Speaker 2: Four door sedan. Possibly that'll be the day.
Speaker 1: No, if that is the car, I will be shocked.
Speaker 1: I think we can rule that off.
Speaker 2: That's never happened, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have been riding motorcycles a lot, so, oh what
Speaker 2: have you been on? I've been riding my Ducati Monster
Speaker 2: S four r s desperately trying to get out for
Speaker 2: a ride. The first day, as soon as I got
Speaker 2: like a mile away from the house, the battery died
Speaker 2: and wouldn't and wouldn't be jumped. So I had to
Speaker 2: spend the most rest of the day. I had to
Speaker 2: go over to Hudson Valley Motorcycles and Richie had an
Speaker 2: old school like lead acid battery for me. Then the
Speaker 2: next day, I got like a mile away from my
Speaker 2: house and I ran out of gas, and so I
Speaker 2: had to spend to get walk back to the house,
Speaker 2: get in my car, go get a camp for gasoline.
Speaker 2: So it was a difficult, but.
Speaker 1: I find I mean, this is oh for two in
Speaker 1: a way.
Speaker 2: Well it happens when you're like kicking off the season,
Speaker 2: but we're now.
Speaker 1: We're there, all right, all right, third time is going
Speaker 1: to be the charm.
Speaker 2: So I'm focused. That's my focus right now, riding.
Speaker 1: Good, good good.
Speaker 2: I guess that's it for this week's episode. YE look
Speaker 2: forward to hearing back from you after your weekend in Miami.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be quite an intense weekend.
Speaker 2: I'm Matt Miller and
Speaker 1: I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg