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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: Scrubbed in sunshine. That is just one of the mini

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Speaker 2: phrases used to describe Riley Strain. So why now has

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Speaker 2: a second autopsy been ordered? Very disturbing facts emerge about

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Speaker 2: the discovery of his body. What does it mean?

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 2: and on serious xem one eleven a second autopsy?

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Speaker 3: Why?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Dave.

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Speaker 3: Matt Crime Online.

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Speaker 4: The body of Riley's Strain was found submerged under a

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Speaker 4: log in the Cumberland River, eight miles down river from

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Speaker 4: where he was last seen. Strain still had on the

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Speaker 4: white and black shirt he was last seen wearing, but

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Speaker 4: his boots, pants and wallet were missing. Officials say it's

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Speaker 4: not uncommon for clothing to come off drowning victims in

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Speaker 4: the water. The initial autopsy report says no sign of

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Speaker 4: foul play, but the family is ordered a second private autopsy,

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Speaker 4: saying no water in his lungs raises questions about drowning.

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Speaker 4: The claim that the coroner noted a lack of water

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Speaker 4: in Strain's lungs has not been publicly confirmed.

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Speaker 2: That's a problem death by drowning, but no water in

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Speaker 2: the victim's lungs.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Let's don't put.

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Speaker 3: The cart before the horse.

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Speaker 2: Let's start at the beginning to figure out what, if anything,

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Speaker 2: we can based on the knowledge that we are learning

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Speaker 2: from the autopsies.

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Speaker 3: How did it start? Listen and why?

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Speaker 5: What's the exactplication of your emergency?

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Speaker 6: Yes, maam, I man, It's seventeen forty sixty First Avenue North,

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Speaker 6: Nashville's Citnessee.

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Speaker 5: Lord, First Avenue North in the Nations Office the.

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Speaker 6: City good Dam.

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Speaker 7: And what happened?

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Speaker 6: My company works on the river. I have just found

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Speaker 6: a dead body.

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Speaker 5: I believe it to be Riley.

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Speaker 2: Oh you know what, no matter how many cases you investigate,

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Speaker 2: you prosecute, you cover, when you hear that, it stops

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Speaker 2: you in your tracks. After all the searching, all the prayers,

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Speaker 2: all the maneuvers, to hear that I found a dead body.

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Speaker 2: I believe it to be Riley. Joining me in all

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Speaker 2: star panel to makes sense of what we know right now.

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Speaker 2: But first two a special guest joining us, very dear

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Speaker 2: family friend, family spokesperson for Riley Strain's family, Chris Dingman,

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Speaker 2: joining us out of Springfold.

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Speaker 1: Chris thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 8: Thank you for having me this morning, Chris.

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Speaker 2: I know the family is coming off a very emotional funeral,

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Speaker 2: and that milestone, I guess is something you have to

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Speaker 2: go through to move to the next point. But I'd

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Speaker 2: like to address the evidence, the forensic evidence, to try

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Speaker 2: and analyze what happened to Riley, because I find it

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Speaker 2: very difficult to believe he fell in the water. Nobody

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Speaker 2: knew about it, heard about it, heard him yell nothing

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Speaker 2: at all, and then he turns up without his pants on,

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Speaker 2: his boots, his wallet, all missing. I have a problem

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Speaker 2: with that. I've got a big problem with that. I

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Speaker 2: know you just heard the nine to one one call, Chris.

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Speaker 2: How did Riley's family discover a body had been found?

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Speaker 9: We were the family was actually notified via a reporter

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Speaker 9: for the police calling us, letting us know that they

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Speaker 9: had found Riley, which it's not I guess it's ironic

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Speaker 9: that most of our information has come from the media

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Speaker 9: and not the police, but that's my personal opinion on this.

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Speaker 8: But yeah, we were notified just.

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Speaker 9: Literally moments before the police actually notified that it had

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Speaker 9: not been verified, but they were pretty sure they had

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Speaker 9: found rightly, which you know put the family in a

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Speaker 9: spin at that moment. They had been searching so hard

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Speaker 9: for a positive ending, but also had ultimately found the ending.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm taking in everything that you're saying, but that

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Speaker 2: feeling that hearing those words is something that stays with

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Speaker 2: you the rest of your life.

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Speaker 3: I know, I know that.

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Speaker 1: When I first heard.

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Speaker 2: That my fiance was dead, I really didn't believe it.

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Speaker 2: My mind was playing all sorts of games to Oh,

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Speaker 2: if I can get there, maybe there's been an accident,

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Speaker 2: I can fix it.

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Speaker 3: Where is he, I'll fix it.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I saw my pastor writ Bernstein

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Speaker 2: funeral home that I realized what was happening. And then

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Speaker 2: it took me a really long time to take it in.

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Speaker 2: Who answered that phone call his mom or dad.

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Speaker 9: Actually it was a joint call to the family. His

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Speaker 9: stepdad and mom was at the house. Ryan, his dad

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Speaker 9: was already out, had just left the house. I think

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Speaker 9: to go towards the boat to get on it to search,

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Speaker 9: and I was leaving the house and we noticed that

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Speaker 9: they'd gotten an important phone call because they got quiet,

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Speaker 9: but we had to go chase down some leads.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I hate that failing Chris Chris.

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Speaker 2: I hate that family when there's buzz going on, all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, somebody's on the phone and everything gets

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Speaker 2: quiet and you're like, what is it?

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Speaker 3: So it was the mom and who else on the phone?

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Speaker 8: His stepdad, Chris the other Chris? Yes.

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Speaker 2: So did his mother expect this or was she completely

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Speaker 2: floored when she got the news?

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Speaker 9: Michelle, At one point we did have a family conversation

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Speaker 9: of the bad outcome that could happen. She was prepared,

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Speaker 9: but only as you can prepare a mother that's missing

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Speaker 9: her cub. You know, she knew that with the days

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Speaker 9: that went by and the lack of evidence and the

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Speaker 9: lack of stuff that was being generated at you know,

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Speaker 9: in Nashville itself by the police department, that it may

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Speaker 9: not have a happy album, you know, outcome.

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Speaker 8: But she never gave up hope to find her her son.

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Speaker 10: We never gave up trying, and we were blessed with

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Speaker 10: the media getting Riley's store out, generating the leads that

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Speaker 10: we needed because at that point, literally the media, the

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Speaker 10: social networks is the only leads that we had been

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Speaker 10: given period as to what had happened to Riley.

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Speaker 2: Guys, again, thank you for being with us. As this

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Speaker 2: family mourns the death of Riley, I want answers. So

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Speaker 2: far we keep hearing that his death quote continues to

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Speaker 2: appear accidental.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I don't get it. I don't get it.

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Speaker 2: Ben Powers joining me, high profile lawyer joining us out

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Speaker 2: of this jurisdiction at legalpowers dot com.

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Speaker 1: Ben, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Why would they say it quote continues to appear accidental?

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Speaker 3: When hit what?

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Speaker 2: He accidentally threw his pants, his shoes, and his wallet

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Speaker 2: and jumped in the water, fell in the water.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. Why are they saying that.

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Speaker 11: Well, so when it comes to the medical examiner, that

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Speaker 11: type of determination, what they're looking for is clear signs

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Speaker 11: of trauma, you know, a gunshot wound, a clear stab wound,

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Speaker 11: something like that. And a medical examiner's determination no signs

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Speaker 11: of foul play or no signs of trauma consistent with

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Speaker 11: foul play is a determination that's not static.

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Speaker 8: It's fluid.

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Speaker 11: So if new information is developed, new information comes forward,

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Speaker 11: witnesses come forward with whatever they may know, that can

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Speaker 11: definitely change the determination that the medical examiner makes. But

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Speaker 11: right now, I don't put a whole lot of stock

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Speaker 11: in the no foul play trauma determination because someone pushing

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Speaker 11: Riley in, throwing Riley in, punching Raleigh and tossing him

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Speaker 11: in that way, or just pushing him down the embankment

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Speaker 11: is going to look exactly identical to him falling in.

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Speaker 11: It's indistinguishable the type of injuries.

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Speaker 3: You have menpowers.

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Speaker 2: I hate everything that you just said, and I'm going

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Speaker 2: to tell you why, but I need backup joining me

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Speaker 2: right now. Profile medical high profile death investigator, Professor Forensicks,

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Speaker 2: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

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Speaker 3: What else can I say?

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Speaker 2: Let's see and star of a hit series Body Bags

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Speaker 2: with Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 3: Joe Scott, Now, I know you're used.

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Speaker 2: To getting in front of jury's and giving a very

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Speaker 2: lengthy explanation of coed cause of death, but I have

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Speaker 2: one question, and it's a yes no Joe Scott, yes

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Speaker 2: or no. Okay, here's the question. Isn't it true the

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Speaker 2: death investigators and medical examiners take into account before they

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Speaker 2: reach their determination, not only the physical evidence that you

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Speaker 2: get from the body, but extrinsic evidence as well, such

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Speaker 2: as I had an arson case. Okay, was it an accident?

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Speaker 2: Did this wife really die in a fire? Well, I

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Speaker 2: looked at extrinsic evidence, including the fact that her husband

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Speaker 2: took all of his suits, all of his shoes, all

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Speaker 2: of his ties to a dry cleaner, multiple dry cleaners

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Speaker 2: in the area in the days before the fire, called

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Speaker 2: the weather station and I had him on tape finding

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Speaker 2: out if it would rain that day the day of

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Speaker 2: the fire, and also calling his insurance company to find

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Speaker 2: out what they pay for furniture replacement. And then bam,

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Speaker 2: his mansion caught on fire and his wife died. That's

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Speaker 2: extrinsic evidence, not to mention rating his place of business

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Speaker 2: and finding bags and bags trash bags, black plastic trash

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Speaker 2: bags as I recall, full of things from the homes,

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Speaker 2: such as his own family photos, not her, but his family,

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Speaker 2: his mom, his grandma.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. That's extrinsic evidence.

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Speaker 2: So my question to you is, isn't it true the

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Speaker 2: medical examiner can take into account extrinsic evidence.

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Speaker 1: When determining whether there's been foul play.

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Speaker 2: Yes, can't believe it. He did it, Jackie. He actually

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Speaker 2: said it.

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Speaker 3: In one word.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, so Ben Powers.

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Speaker 2: The extrinsic evidence I'm talking about would be the fact

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Speaker 2: that he doesn't have on pants.

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Speaker 3: How's that an accident?

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Speaker 8: No, and I agree.

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Speaker 11: I think that the fact that he doesn't have on

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Speaker 11: pants but still has on his boxers is definitely something

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Speaker 11: of concern because if they're trying to say that the

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Speaker 11: river current took his pants off, you're telling me that

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Speaker 11: something that's indiscriminate in tearing his pants from his body

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Speaker 11: is delicate enough to leave his undergarments. That just doesn't

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Speaker 11: make any sense. And then when you factor that in

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Speaker 11: with the debit card found on the riverbank, it just

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Speaker 11: continues to make so many irregularities of this you have

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Speaker 11: to acknowledge this doesn't add up. The math doesn't math

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Speaker 11: because you've got the debit card on the riverbank, the

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Speaker 11: pants are missing, but the boxer you're still present.

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Speaker 2: Hold on before I lose the thought, before I lose

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Speaker 2: the thought empowers I'm going to follow up with Joe

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan about the pants missing. But as you've pointed

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Speaker 2: out twice, and I'm glad you did, because it sparked

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Speaker 2: a thought.

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Speaker 3: If the current had.

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Speaker 2: Somehow dragged his pants off, why not the boxers too?

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Speaker 3: If the current was that strong.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever seen a drowning case

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Speaker 2: where it literally pulled your clothes off.

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Speaker 3: Hold on just one moment.

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Speaker 2: I want to go to Dryden quickly joining US investigative

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Speaker 2: reporter WSMV four. But first let's get some more knowledge

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Speaker 2: before we reach a conclusion.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of the nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call.

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Speaker 2: What else do we learn about the discovery of Riley's body?

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Speaker 5: Listen, and you said, you guys the time that dead body, yes,

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Speaker 5: ma'am in the river.

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Speaker 6: M well, no barges at this facility. I was checking

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Speaker 6: around the dock. Uh, it's definitely got a person hair,

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Speaker 6: black shirt, kind of like a white muddy looking on

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Speaker 6: the front. It's face down in the water, yes, ma'am,

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Speaker 6: it's occasion.

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Speaker 5: It looks like a mail.

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Speaker 6: Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I want to hear more of that, not on one call,

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Speaker 2: because I'm learning a lot of facts.

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Speaker 5: Listen, well, is he completely submerged or is he right

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Speaker 5: on that like the sub bed, not the bed, but like,

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Speaker 5: is he partially in the water, partially out of the water.

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Speaker 6: No, he's fully submoted. Be sizes his back sticking out

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Speaker 6: of the water. I actually had to move a log

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Speaker 6: off of it, off of the head. To compariment was

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Speaker 6: a body.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I have this call up and I'm gonna get

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Speaker 5: somebody out there. Okay, all right, I'll meet them up.

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna make my way up from the river and

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Speaker 6: here in just a few minutes.

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Speaker 5: Okay, all right, I'll let you go. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I'm very intrigued, and I want to know if everybody

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Speaker 2: else has noticed this as well.

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Speaker 1: Let me just throw it out into Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with the body, but you

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Speaker 2: and I listen to a lot of ninemal one calls.

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Speaker 1: Is I'm sure you have two been powers in court?

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Speaker 2: Why do the ninm on one dispatchers always like, what huh,

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Speaker 2: it's a dead body.

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Speaker 3: They're like, not even worried.

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Speaker 1: Does anybody notice that beside me?

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Speaker 7: No? I mean when when you hear her responses Nancy,

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Speaker 7: you have to understand she's got other calls that have

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Speaker 7: been coming in. All right, this this is not separated

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Speaker 7: from her. She has to survive in the environment that

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Speaker 7: she is, and she has to remain.

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Speaker 1: Oh please other calls.

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Speaker 2: Oh there's a fire hydrant running on main street.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, I see a car accident.

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Speaker 2: They look like they've heard their neck. Okay, you know

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Speaker 2: what that that's what you've got for me.

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Speaker 1: She's taking.

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Speaker 3: Invested.

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Speaker 7: I know, she seems like the domestic violence calls, those

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Speaker 7: sorts of things, maybe armed robberies, we're talking about anything.

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Speaker 7: National is a big town, Nancy, and so she has

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Speaker 7: to deal with a lot of things. She cannot have

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Speaker 7: her voice going up and down in these sorts of things.

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Speaker 7: She has to maintain calm during the midst of this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you can call it calm.

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Speaker 2: Some people might call it disinterested, but I'm going to

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Speaker 2: go with what you said. Nashville is the big town.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of crime. So she is not my

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Speaker 2: concern right now too. Dryden quickly joining us investigative reporter

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Speaker 2: WSMV for dry and tell me, first of all, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. Tell me about the discovery

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Speaker 2: of Riley's body, because it's not adding up for me.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, it was the second call of the

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Speaker 12: dead body we got that week. So at first I

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Speaker 12: think a lot of us were like, is it going

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Speaker 12: to be him? Is it not going to him? So

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Speaker 12: when we got this call that they found a body

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Speaker 12: in the river, a lot of us rushed out there,

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Speaker 12: you know, to see what was going on if it

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Speaker 12: would be identified as him, which unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: When you rushed out there, Dryden, what did you say?

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Speaker 12: So, I myself wasn't on the scene. We had sent

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Speaker 12: another reporter there first, but I know that when he

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Speaker 12: got there, there were a ton of police officers there.

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Speaker 12: They weren't able to go exactly towards the water, but

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Speaker 12: you know, they had a lot of officers. I think

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Speaker 12: the feeling was that, you know, it was going to

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Speaker 12: be Riley this time.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how Riley's mom, Michelle even had the

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Speaker 2: strength to stand up in front of microphones and speak

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Speaker 2: to the public as articulately.

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Speaker 3: As she did.

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Speaker 1: Bringing home.

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Speaker 2: Not only has she lost her son, but now that

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Speaker 2: he's been found, so many questions. You know what, let's

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Speaker 2: hear part of that nine one, one one more time.

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Speaker 1: There's something very significant there. I want to analyze.

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Speaker 5: Well, if he completely submergeder is he right on that

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Speaker 5: like that's the bed, not the bed, but like if

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Speaker 5: he partially in the water, partially out of the.

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Speaker 6: Water, No, he's fully smoted, be sizes his back sticking

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Speaker 6: out of the water. I actually had to move a

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Speaker 6: log off of it, off of the head to comperiment

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Speaker 6: was a body.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I have this call up and I'm gonna get

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Speaker 5: somebody out there. Okay, all right, I'll meet them up.

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Speaker 7: Cup.

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna make my way up from the river here

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Speaker 6: in just.

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Speaker 4: A few minutes.

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Speaker 5: Okay, all right, I'll.

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Speaker 6: Let you go, all right, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Chris Dingman is with us a very dear family friend

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Speaker 2: and spokesperson for Riley Strain's family. They have a GoFundMe

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Speaker 2: aunt Riley Strain. Chris, the details that we're hearing that

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Speaker 2: his head was lodged under a log, that his boots,

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Speaker 2: wallet pants missing, but especially hearing on the nine on

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Speaker 2: one call that his head was lodged under a log.

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Speaker 2: Are those facts that the mom Shelle knows, is she

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Speaker 2: It would break my heart to hear those facts. I

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Speaker 2: don't know that she's ready to hear that.

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Speaker 9: We actually, as a collective group in Riley's war room,

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Speaker 9: kept a lot of stuff from Michelle, just because as

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Speaker 9: you deal on a daily basis, and a lot of

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Speaker 9: people on the panel today, it's a dark world out

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Speaker 9: there and people like to do cruel things.

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Speaker 8: So I am unaware of at this moment.

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Speaker 9: I don't think Michelle knew the graphic nature of how

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Speaker 9: Riley was found, the war room, the dad's uncles, etc.

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Speaker 8: Yes, we were quite aware of it.

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Speaker 9: And the wild part is Brian Riley's dad actually was

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Speaker 9: at that location and they pained it that night at

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Speaker 9: like eleven or twelve o'clock that night in the boat

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Speaker 9: as a possible location to search with the dogs.

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Speaker 8: I do know that too.

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Speaker 2: Karen Start joining us now high profile TV radio trauma

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Speaker 2: expert and consultant at karenstart dot com. If you're looking

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Speaker 2: for her, that's Karen Worth the Sea. Karen, thank you

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Speaker 2: for being with us. It's bad enough when the one

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Speaker 2: you love you lose them they die, But then you

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Speaker 2: find out about a traumatic death, and as you and

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Speaker 2: I have discussed many times about Keith, you think, oh,

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Speaker 2: did they feel what happened? Did they know what was

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Speaker 2: happening to them? My point is did they suffer? What

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Speaker 2: was that like? And then you find out it could

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Speaker 2: have been wrongdoing on someone else's part, such as a murder.

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Speaker 2: It's overwhelming. I don't know how you know, Karen. I

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Speaker 2: thought I knew it all and my fiance was killed,

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Speaker 2: But now that I have the twins don't.

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Speaker 1: I can't even.

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Speaker 3: Imagine what Michelle is going through.

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Speaker 2: And now this and the confusion about what really happened

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Speaker 2: to Riley.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'd rather know.

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Speaker 2: Look, he was rolled by some homeless people, we don't

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Speaker 2: know who yet, but his pant didn't.

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Speaker 3: Just float off in the water. That's not what happened.

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Speaker 2: And I don't believe they, or the war or other

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Speaker 2: items have been recovered yet, which you would think naturally they.

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Speaker 3: Would follow the current where the body.

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Speaker 2: Went, right, Well they haven't, So where are they what happened?

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Speaker 2: So without knowing the truth, you're kind of left and

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Speaker 2: some horrible purgatory, some limbo where you don't know what

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Speaker 2: happened to them.

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Speaker 13: Nancy, if you think about what happened with you with Keith, right,

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Speaker 13: the more details that you're able to have, even though

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Speaker 13: it's terrific, it's just you want to know. You want

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Speaker 13: to know exactly what happened, because your imagination just keeps going.

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Speaker 13: It's not like you could let it go. This is traumatic.

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Speaker 13: Your child is dead before you. It's not the way

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Speaker 13: it's supposed to go in the world. And so here

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Speaker 13: you are with this situation and you're told that his

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Speaker 13: pants are off. Well, they say that you can take

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Speaker 13: pants off if you're in the water. He couldn't do

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Speaker 13: it himself. His boots were off. They found the cards.

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Speaker 13: So the more details that are confusion that he died

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Speaker 13: by drowning. But no, maybe not. The harder it is

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Speaker 13: and they need to have the beginning. Look, they will

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Speaker 13: never heal from this, you know that more than anyone.

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Speaker 13: But the beginning of some kind of process to make

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Speaker 13: them be able to live with this. They're not having

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Speaker 13: that right now.

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Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel, But first I want

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Speaker 2: to go to Joe Scott Morgan, professor forensic Jacksonville State

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Speaker 2: University and death investigator. He has investigated over one thousand deaths. Joscott, again,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. This is a lot

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Speaker 2: of information to digest it. I want to hear your analysis,

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Speaker 2: especially about no water being in the lungs in a

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Speaker 2: drowning case.

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Speaker 7: Listen, You're not always going to find water in the lungs, Nancy.

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Speaker 7: In a drowning, you can have what's referred to as

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Speaker 7: a dry drowning. Many times this is where you have

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Speaker 7: actually a spasm that occurs in the organs of the

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Speaker 7: throat and you can prevent water from getting in. But

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Speaker 7: here's the problem with this. There's other locations you look

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Speaker 7: to see if there are in fact evidences of drowning

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Speaker 7: with a body. And the biggest problem I have with this, Nancy,

404
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Speaker 7: is that they have not had sufficient amount of time

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Speaker 7: to do all of the testing, including toxicology that they

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Speaker 7: need to come back to. This is an incomplete investigation.

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Speaker 2: As far as i'm everything you're saying is extremely valuable.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to write as fast as I can. Okay,

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Speaker 2: dry drowning. You want me to accept that.

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Speaker 7: You know whether or not you want to accept it

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Speaker 7: or not. It's the reality is is that it does occur.

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Speaker 1: So you can have Oh often have you seen it happen?

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Speaker 7: I'd say probably at least a dozen times of the

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Speaker 7: course of my career. Worked a long time in New Orland.

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Speaker 1: What were the circumstances.

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Speaker 7: You have individuals that go into the water, particularly in

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Speaker 7: an inebriated state. This can particularly happen sometimes, and you

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Speaker 7: can have individuals that have sustained trauma where this occurs

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Speaker 7: as well, and generally there's going to be some kind

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Speaker 7: of neurological compromise.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what that means neurological compromise.

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Speaker 7: Well, that means that they have sustained head trauma perhaps, but.

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Speaker 3: He he didn't. How do we know because it wasn't reported,

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Speaker 3: and that it wasn't.

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Speaker 7: Reported, all right, yeah, well yeah, I haven't reported toxicology

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Speaker 7: yet either. I think that it's very important.

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Speaker 3: The apples oranges.

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Speaker 2: See Scott, I know your your game really well when

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Speaker 2: you throw things on me like neurological What did you say, neurological?

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Speaker 1: What compromise?

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Speaker 3: Is that what you said?

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Speaker 1: Neurological compromise?

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Speaker 2: Okay, you're throwing words at me as a medical examiner,

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Speaker 2: as a death investigator that a lawyer wouldn't necessarily know

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Speaker 2: what that meant. But guess what I do know what

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Speaker 2: that means for once. So let me just say then,

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Speaker 2: you said, when I said, well, there was no report

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Speaker 2: of a blood of the head or any contusion, any hemorrhage,

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Speaker 2: bruising to the head, you went, oh, well, there's not

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Speaker 2: toxicology either, apples oranges. Because you can look at the

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Speaker 2: body and see if there's a blood to the head.

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Speaker 1: Easy.

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Speaker 2: You can't look at the body and know about toxicology.

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Speaker 2: You have to wait until the as blood tests or

445
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: tissue tests come back. So if they're telling, if they're

446
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: not noting in the autopsy there's a blow to the

447
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 2: head and there's not a blow to the head, that's

448
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 2: not something you have to wait.

449
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 7: On, right, You're absolutely right. And so I think that

450
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 7: other things that they need to be digging into here, Nancy,

451
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 7: are something that we look for in drowning, which are

452
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 7: referred to as diatone testing, which are these little algae

453
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 7: creatures that exist in water that has not been released.

454
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 7: As well, I don't know if they're doing diatom testing.

455
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 7: There also any kind of barow trauma, and what we

456
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 7: look for is water in the inner ear. Many times

457
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 7: this happens when bodies have been, say, submerged a great depth.

458
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 7: And yeah, we get water in our ears when we swim. However,

459
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 7: this is something this is deep within the ear, and

460
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 7: many times this happens as a result of force pressure.

461
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 7: I'm interested to try to understand why in the hell

462
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 7: they have release this information so prematurely when they don't

463
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 7: have a complete investigation done at this point in time.

464
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 7: I'm still waiting.

465
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: I'm trying to decipher everything you said.

466
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: Dry drowning, and you said that you, Jo just got

467
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: Morgan have encountered dry drowning about twelve times.

468
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: Isn't that what you said?

469
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 7: That's correct?

470
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: Do you think it's twelve or could it have been less?

471
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 7: No, I'd say it's probably around twelve.

472
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, around twelve, Okay, And Joe Gott Morgan, how many

473
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: death investigations have you conducted?

474
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 7: I don't know, Nancy, probably upwards of I don't know,

475
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 7: four thousand. I would imagine, so.

476
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 2: Four thousand around, just like around twelve. Now it's around

477
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: four thousand. So out of four thousand death investigations, you've

478
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: had around twelve dry drownings.

479
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 3: Is that correct?

480
00:26:59,240 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 9: Correct?

481
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: In those cases?

482
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: Did you say that often you found a neurological compromise,

483
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 2: plain language, regular people taught blood of the head.

484
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 3: It does occur, yes, did it occur in those twelve

485
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 3: To the.

486
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 7: Best of my recollection, every single time they were compromised

487
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 7: in some way, either from a head strike or from

488
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 7: being inebriated.

489
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: Somebody I know is going into cross examination mode, and

490
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: that would be you. Because when somebody throws out, to

491
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 2: the best of my recollection, that means I may be

492
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: right or I may be wrong, but I'm going to

493
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: Cya by saying to the best one, I see you

494
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: smiling too, I see you. But that said, you're telling me,

495
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: out of four thousand cases, you've had about twelve dry drownings,

496
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: and in those twelve dry drownings they had, as you say,

497
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: neurological compromise, I e.

498
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 3: Blood of the head. Yes, no, yes, Okay, got it.

499
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 2: So in this case says we don't know about a

500
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: blood of the head that differentiates itself from all of

501
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: you your dry drownings.

502
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 3: Okay, now that.

503
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: We have ferreted that out, Joe Scott, please just tell

504
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: me what you think in regular people talk. No neurological compromise,

505
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: no blow to the head, extrinsic evidence. He doesn't have

506
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: his pants on. Boots would have just dragged him down

507
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: to the bottom. His debit card is up near that

508
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: homeless camp. It's wallet's gone.

509
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 7: I don't I don't understand.

510
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: I don't.

511
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 7: I don't understand what dragging him down to the bottom

512
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 7: has to do with the condition which his body was

513
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 7: found and where he was found. It is possible for

514
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 7: boots to come off. I have a real problem with

515
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 7: pants coming off, though I also don't know if his

516
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 7: pants were belted as well. That has not been addressed

517
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 7: at all. And here's another thing. This clothes would have

518
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 7: had to have come off early on Nancy because as

519
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 7: the body is in this in the Cumberland for this

520
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 7: protracted period time, I think we're looking at what a

521
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 7: two week period. Forgive me for saying this, but the

522
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 7: body will become bloated during that potential particularly bit of time.

523
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 7: That means that with the bloating comes tension, and so

524
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 7: the body begins to swell. So the probability of the

525
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 7: pants coming off as he's been in there for a

526
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 7: protracted period of time would not have happened at the

527
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 7: end or prior to the discovery. It would have had

528
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 7: to have happened prior to all right, So I think

529
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 7: that that's something else that needs to be factored in

530
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 7: as well.

531
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: Okay, that is the Joe Scott Morgan you're hearing right there.

532
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: That is the renow.

533
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: Professor at Jacksonville State University and the author of Blood

534
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 2: Beneath My Feet and the Star of Body Bags. With

535
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, everything you just said is brilliant. I

536
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: didn't even take notes because I wanted to drink it

537
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: in what you just said. The one thing I did

538
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: manage to write down two words. I don't want to

539
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: miss anything, And what you just said is critical.

540
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: Were those pants built.

541
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace?

542
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: The suggestion that this young man died of a dry

543
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: drowning doesn't make any sense compared with the extrinsic evidence

544
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: that we have learned to Dryden quickly joining us WSMV four.

545
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: They're in Tennessee. Explain to me where the.

546
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: Body was found in relation to all the other points

547
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: of antes, specifically that homeless encampment.

548
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 12: Yeah, so that's right where he went into the water.

549
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 12: So you're walking along this kind of the road on

550
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 12: your right side is going to be this steep, steep

551
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 12: slope into the river. There's no way that he was

552
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 12: walking down towards that river, but there are some homeless camps,

553
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 12: you know, kind of perched along it. But it's very

554
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 12: wooded down there. So if he would have had to

555
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 12: fall or yes, been pushed over kind of the edge

556
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 12: into that water. And then his body was found a

557
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 12: few miles down the river from from where he supposedly

558
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 12: went in or where he was last set on camera.

559
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: Chris Dingman joining us.

560
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: The family spokesperson, Very dear friend of Riley's family, Chris,

561
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: what does all of this mean to you and the family.

562
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 9: It's once again we have way more questions and answers.

563
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 9: And to answer one of the panelists, I did confer

564
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 9: with the family last night. Much like my son is

565
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 9: the same height as Riley, and you've seen the pictures

566
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 9: of him. The boys wear belts because they have swimmers'

567
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 9: bodies in essence, and you know, there's very very very

568
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 9: good chance Riley did have a belt on that evening

569
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 9: where the location.

570
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 13: That went in.

571
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 9: I'll be honest with you, I'm a very avid outdoors guy,

572
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 9: and it's extreme terrain at the homeless camp area, let

573
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 9: alone the sheer drop off area where the credit card

574
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 9: was found in the debit card. More confusing questions from

575
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 9: the police officer's body cam. If you timestamp it to

576
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 9: where the detention center picks back up where Riley is

577
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 9: no longer seen in any videos, there's numerous, numerous people,

578
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 9: a little computer. They're also walking. That's in that time

579
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 9: era that you know, somebody it wasn't like it was

580
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 9: a you know, three o'clock in the morning. Everybody went home.

581
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 9: There are people cars driving by. We even had one

582
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 9: of the gentlemen say I saw two teslas setting in

583
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 9: the police cam foot eage for the body cam.

584
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 8: Now they run video twenty four to seven.

585
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 9: I still personally think that somebody knows something, you know,

586
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 9: whether it was a homeless person or person visiting from

587
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 9: out of town who. I think there was too many

588
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 9: people that was in that area for it just go unnoticed.

589
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 9: That's my personal opinion.

590
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: Agree just Scott Morgan, why was it so significant to

591
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 2: you to find out whether Riley was wearing a belt?

592
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,959
Speaker 2: And now that we believe we have the answer from

593
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: Chris Dingman that he was. What, if anything, does that

594
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: mean to you, Joe Scott?

595
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 7: It means, Nancy that it would be much more it's

596
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 7: more plausible. I think our potential. The potential exists. As

597
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 7: doctor Bass has said, I think previously that the pants

598
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 7: may have come off. They could, but if they were belted,

599
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 7: it would be a much tougher hill to climb that

600
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 7: the water would just simply pull them off. Because as

601
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 7: was mentioned, this young gentleman is tall and slender. Those

602
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 7: pants are not going to stay up. He has to

603
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 7: have them belted. And again, when you combine all of

604
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 7: these things. I worked a lot of cases, Nancy, where

605
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 7: people's shoes do in fact come off in the water.

606
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 7: The current generally facilitates that, but when you have pants

607
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 7: that come off, that's a completely different animal at that

608
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 7: point in time. That's what you know. Leaves me with

609
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 7: more questions and answers here.

610
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: Dry drowning is also known as Lorenzo spasm. As Joe

611
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: Scott was saying earlier, how your larynx will spasm. But

612
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: would that spasm last long enough if it unspasmed? Would

613
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: he ingest water? And if you drown? I thought, the

614
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 2: reason you drown is because your lungs are.

615
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 3: Full of water.

616
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: So how can you drown without your lungs being full

617
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: of water?

618
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 7: You can drown without the water present in your lungs.

619
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 7: Because if you'll just think about, which we cover a

620
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 7: lot of these cases, Nancy, is fhixial desks, You're essentially

621
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 7: depriving your brain of oxygen, and so that's going to

622
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 7: be compromised. If he has any substances on board, that's

623
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 7: also going to be another compromising position. But as I'd

624
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 7: mentioned just a moment ago, and I think that this

625
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 7: is important for them to explore. He would still take

626
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 7: on enough water if it could get into the peripheral

627
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 7: system that means out into his organs, into his bloodstream,

628
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 7: and even in yes to his bone marrow. Where you're

629
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 7: searching for diatoms. We take samples of of these areas

630
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 7: of the body and you do an ascid what's referred

631
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 7: to as an acid test on these areas, and you

632
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 7: look for these little creatures that only exist in water

633
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 7: born environments and they kind of spread out. We do

634
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 7: this in drowning cases with great frequency, and so I'd

635
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 7: be curious if they took the time to do that.

636
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 7: And that's only something that happens in the anti mortem state, Nancy.

637
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 7: That means it doesn't happen postmortem. You have to take

638
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 7: these on and they have to be shutted off into

639
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 7: the peripheral system at that point in time. So I'm

640
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 7: still waiting on that, just like we're waiting on tac cology.

641
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: Chris Dingman, you inferred that people have been embedded into

642
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: the homeless community to get information.

643
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: Did they get any information.

644
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 9: We've got a lot of information that we're still processing through.

645
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 8: Unfortunately, when all this.

646
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 9: Went down and due to the media impact in that area,

647
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 9: the homeless, scattered. Ninety percent of them do not want

648
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 9: to be in the lime light or talk to people, etc.

649
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 8: We do have personally.

650
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 9: I don't think Metro Nashville is following up on it,

651
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 9: but we do have personally some people that we are

652
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 9: still trying to track down another camps just for information

653
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 9: if this truly was an accident. You know, Michelle has

654
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 9: her son home and they're going to get to have

655
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 9: a proper burreal which was big, big for me on

656
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 9: the side of the family.

657
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 8: I did not want to.

658
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 9: Have to bring Michelle home without her son, good or bad.

659
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 9: But Michelle does have that. But now now we're able

660
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 9: to actually dig into some of the stuff that we

661
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 9: have questions on. The priority was getting Michelle, her son

662
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 9: and Ryan and Chris to get them home back in

663
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 9: a controlled environment with love, friends and family and everybody.

664
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 9: But now the dad's in the war room. We need

665
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 9: some answers. You know, We've got questions. Just like on

666
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 9: the panel today, We've given each other information and we

667
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 9: thought we had an angle, and all of a sudden,

668
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 9: now we have one hundred more angles. But no, there's

669
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 9: people of interest that we personally are trying to reach

670
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 9: out to, not because we think there was mal content

671
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:25,479
Speaker 9: in it. But somebody, you know, somebody knows something. There's

672
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 9: just too many people.

673
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 8: In that area.

674
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 9: One of the theories was that right maybe Riley had

675
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 9: went around the corner to try to relieve himself. The

676
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 9: young lady from Nashville doing reporting with us in the group,

677
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 9: she can verify that terrain is extreme terrain right there

678
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 9: in Riley. Of all my boys, even though he's not mine,

679
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 9: all my boys, he was the modest one, you know.

680
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 9: He was not a go out in public kind of guy,

681
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 9: like we were raised on the country. So that was

682
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 9: nothing that ever crossed my mind. And also one more question.

683
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 9: Everybody's talking about the boots. I have to let everybody

684
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 9: know those are a size fifteen and if you've ever

685
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 9: had wet boots on our wet shoes, they're extremely tough

686
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 9: to get off. That young man had a size fifteen

687
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 9: shoot on, so boot on. So a lot of questions

688
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 9: we're trying to get answers. Unfortunately, we can do that

689
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 9: at this moment because Riley is home.

690
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 8: But we need the help. We need the help of

691
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 8: the public.

692
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 9: That seems to be where we've gotten our answers as

693
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 9: a family and I think there's still more answers out there.

694
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: A dry drowning, no water in his lungs, with no

695
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 2: blow to the head.

696
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 3: When does that ever happen?

697
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: Practically never what happened to.

698
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: Riley strain to you been Powers, high profile lawyer in

699
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: that jurisdic your way in.

700
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 11: So for me, the thing that stands out is the

701
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 11: commonality of the things they're missing. The boots, the pants,

702
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 11: and the debit card that's discarded. Those are all things

703
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 11: that are valuable to the encampment where he went missing.

704
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 11: The debit card may have been discarded because you have

705
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 11: to go use it, and to use it, you have

706
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 11: to go be on camera using it, and so it's

707
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 11: too much risk. Potentially, it doesn't have intrinsic value like

708
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 11: the pants and the boots that are missing. I think that,

709
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 11: in combination with all the other evidence we've discussed, certainly

710
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 11: raises a lot of questions that we don't have answers

711
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 11: to today.

712
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: You're right, Ben Powers, those boots have not been found,

713
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: and i'd like to know whether anybody's wearing those boots

714
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 2: as we're talking right now to Karen Stark's psychologist, Karen.

715
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 13: I'll tell you Nancy, they will never get over this.

716
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 13: You know that she's talking about holding babies close. But

717
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 13: the more answers that they have the veteran is for

718
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 13: the family, despite the grief.

719
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything regarding the

720
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: death of this son, this beloved son, Riley's train plays

721
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: Dowl six one five eight, six y two eighty six hundred.

722
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 2: But right now, let's pause to remember American Hero Officer

723
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: Jonah Hernandez, just thirty five years old Los Cruces, New Mexico.

724
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: Loved helping those in need. Life long dream of becoming

725
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 2: an officer. Leaves behind wife Yasinia and two beautiful young sons.

726
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 2: Jonah Hernandez, American Hero. Thanks to our guests, but especially

727
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: to you for being with us.

728
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 3: Goodbye friend,