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Speaker 8: In nineteen eighty two, Atari players had one game on

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Speaker 8: Legend of sword Quest on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 8: or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Hey or Hey, when was the last time your family moved?

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Speaker 9: We moved to our house maybe eleven years ago.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's been a while. You know. The longer you

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Speaker 1: live somewhere, the harder it is to move.

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Speaker 9: What do you think that is? Lake indersia or potential energy?

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Speaker 9: Are we trapped in a potential energy?

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Speaker 1: Well sort of. I think you're trapped by your You

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Speaker 1: gradually accumulate stuff in every corner, makes it impossible to ever.

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Speaker 9: Leave because of the gravity or the nostalgia.

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Speaker 1: The overwhelming task of packing it all up into boxes.

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Speaker 9: Sounds like you need Marie Coonda to do some consulting

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Speaker 9: for you.

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Speaker 1: It's all right. I try to leave the house as

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Speaker 1: little as possible.

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Speaker 10: Anyway.

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Speaker 9: Hi, I'm Jorge Amy, cartoonists and the author of Oliver's

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Speaker 9: Great big universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I've moved a lot of times

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Speaker 1: in my life and never was it fun.

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Speaker 9: Well, there's a certain aspect of getting rid of your

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Speaker 9: old stuff that's kind of cathartic. Don't you feel lighter

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Speaker 9: after you move? Or did you just bring everything with you?

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Speaker 11: No?

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Speaker 1: I always start out so optimistic and thinking, Oh, this

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Speaker 1: time it's going to be great, and then about halfway

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Speaker 1: through I realized I'm only five percent of the way through.

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Speaker 1: And then at the end of just throwing random stuff away.

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Speaker 9: Of throwing out your stuff, of packing. Oh, but you know,

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Speaker 9: you can hire people to do that, right, or ask

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Speaker 9: your friends and buy them a peer.

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Speaker 1: I usually use moving as an opportunity to cleanse myself

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Speaker 1: of all the stuff I should have thrown away earlier.

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Speaker 9: When was the last time you moved?

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Speaker 1: Between two thousand and seven and twenty twelve, the family

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Speaker 1: moved across the Atlantic, I think eleven times.

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Speaker 9: I think that's just called going on vacation, isn't.

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Speaker 1: It now when you're living there for nine months and

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Speaker 1: setting up schools and bank accounts.

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Speaker 9: Soul man, But you've been in the same place now

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Speaker 9: for twelve years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, since the kids got older, we've stayed in California

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Speaker 1: and haven't moved back to the Collider as often.

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Speaker 9: Wow, so it's your house now, just the giant pile

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Speaker 9: of stuff.

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Speaker 1: I can't even close the door, it's so jammed full

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Speaker 1: of crap.

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Speaker 9: Well, fortunately it makes for a good soundproofing, I guess

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Speaker 9: for podcast recording.

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Speaker 1: That's why I've been doing it.

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Speaker 9: Yes, one positive thing. But anyways, welcome to our podcast

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Speaker 9: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we help you soar through the ever increasing

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Speaker 1: piles of knowledge that humanity has accumulated along the way.

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Speaker 1: We learned this, we learned that, we learned the other thing,

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Speaker 1: and our goal is to organize it to marry condo

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Speaker 1: your mind and make it crisp and clean and understandable.

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Speaker 1: Because we think, we hope, we assume the universe is understandable,

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Speaker 1: that we can make sense of it with our little minds,

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Speaker 1: and that we can explain all of it to you.

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Speaker 9: That's right. We try to relocate your brain out there

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Speaker 9: to the giant, vast cosmos that exists out there for

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Speaker 9: us to try to understand, and we try to move

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Speaker 9: you with the amazing things that scientists have discovered about

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Speaker 9: why we're here and how things work.

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Speaker 1: And one thing we'd love our listeners to do is

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Speaker 1: to participate in this goal directly by asking their own

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Speaker 1: questions about the universe. Don't just sit back and let

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Speaker 1: the answers from scientists rain down upon your brain. Go

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Speaker 1: out there and ask your own questions about the universe.

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Speaker 1: What doesn't make sense to you, how do you think

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Speaker 1: it works, Why isn't your idea the right one about

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Speaker 1: the universe? And so On this podcast we talk to

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Speaker 1: you about the universe, but we also want to hear

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Speaker 1: from you. Send us your questions to questions at Danielandjorge

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 9: That's right, because it's not just scientists that have questions,

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Speaker 9: it's everybody. We all look at the night sky, the

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Speaker 9: day sky, all of the guys, and we wonder about

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Speaker 9: what's out there and how to make sense of it all.

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Speaker 1: It's a part of being human trying to make sense

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Speaker 1: of the universe, wanting to understand it, and it's something

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Speaker 1: that everybody can do. You don't have to be a

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Speaker 1: professional scientist to look up at the night sky, and

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Speaker 1: wonder what it all means. Or if you've been listening

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Speaker 1: to the podcast and there's some ideas that don't quite

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Speaker 1: fit into your mind together, they don't click the way

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Speaker 1: that you want them to, then write to me questions

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Speaker 1: at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Everybody gets an answer,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes I got a question that we answer right

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Speaker 1: here on the podcast.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, and sometimes we'd like to answer your questions. And

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Speaker 9: so today on the program, we'll be tackling listener questions

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Speaker 9: number sixty seven over five dozen.

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Speaker 1: These are questions for listeners that tickled me, or I

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Speaker 1: thought we would have fun talking about, or I needed

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Speaker 1: a little extra time to do some research before answering.

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Speaker 9: So we have three awesome questions here today. They are

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Speaker 9: about habitable moons, about the Higgs field, and about Daniel's

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Speaker 9: favorite subject, particle colliders and moving it. Right, are we

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Speaker 9: going to move the particle collider?

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Speaker 1: We're not going to move the particle collider, but we

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Speaker 1: might spend tens of billions of dollars on a new one.

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Speaker 9: Oh boy, isn't it easier just to move it?

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Speaker 1: You don't gain anything from moving it. You need a bigger,

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Speaker 1: fancier one or a different flavor of one and those

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Speaker 1: are expensive.

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Speaker 9: Oh boy, Well we'll dig into that, but first we'll

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Speaker 9: tackle a question from Lydia, who is eleven years old.

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Speaker 12: Hi, Daniel Jorge. My name is Lydia and I'm eleven

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Speaker 12: years old. I have a question for you. Do you

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Speaker 12: think it will ever be possible to move planets or

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Speaker 12: moons into more habitable zones? And if you could, which

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Speaker 12: planet or moon in our Solar System.

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Speaker 7: Would you move?

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Speaker 9: All right, pretty interesting question about lots of things here,

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Speaker 9: about habitable zones and solar systems and about I guess

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Speaker 9: planet orbits. That's a lot going on in the mind

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Speaker 9: of an eleven year old.

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Speaker 1: I love that Lydia is thinking about the future. She's

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Speaker 1: trying to make the Solar System a better place for humanity,

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Speaker 1: and she's wondering about all the details of it. So

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Speaker 1: good job, Lydia. Thanks for your forward thinking.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, future president, hopefully seems like we could use some

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Speaker 9: some forward thinking in our leadership. But the question is interesting.

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Speaker 9: It sounds like she's asking whether there are planets out

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Speaker 9: there that we can't live in or move us, whether

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Speaker 9: we can somehow not terraform it or change it, but

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Speaker 9: actually just move it. To a cozier spot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. For example, some of the planets that are closer

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Speaker 1: to the Sun than Earth, Venus and Mercury, are very

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Speaker 1: very hot, and planets that are further from Earth, like Mars,

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Speaker 1: are very very cold. Neither of those seem very cozy

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Speaker 1: to live on. And so I think Lydia's ideas like

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Speaker 1: could we bring Mars closer? Could we push Venus further out?

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Speaker 1: Or I love that she even mentions moons. You know,

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Speaker 1: Jupiter and Saturn have some huge moons. Could we snag

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Speaker 1: one of those and bring them closer and make it

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Speaker 1: a place that humanity could survive.

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Speaker 9: You need a lot of friends and a lot of

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Speaker 9: beer to get your friends to move a whole moon.

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Speaker 1: Depends how much stuff it's accumulated in the years. Right,

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Speaker 1: If you've been keeping it clean and crisp, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a little easier to pack everything up.

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Speaker 9: I think it just depends on how many friends you have.

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Speaker 1: Can you call a moving company and be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you have a box big enough to fit like Europa?

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Speaker 9: I'm sure U haul has something for that. You haul

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Speaker 9: the moon, you haul a planet. I mean, they just

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Speaker 9: rent you the vehicle of stuff. Then you have to

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Speaker 9: do it.

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Speaker 1: Hey, if they have a device capable of moving a moon,

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Speaker 1: I'll drive it. That sounds like fun. I compare aalletl

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Speaker 1: park that thing.

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Speaker 9: Don't you need a special license?

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Speaker 1: Though only if you get pulled over.

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Speaker 9: By the Solar syst the police. But anyways, it's a

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Speaker 9: pretty interesting question, and so let's dig into it, Daniel,

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Speaker 9: Is it possible to move a planet to a different orbit?

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Speaker 1: So it definitely is possible, like the physics doesn't say no,

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Speaker 1: But in the case of some planets or moons, it's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a good idea, Like, even if you could

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Speaker 1: do it, it wouldn't really give you a place humans

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Speaker 1: could live. And in other cases, like Mars, it's possible

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Speaker 1: and it might solve some of the problems, but it

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Speaker 1: would cost an enormous amount of energy.

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Speaker 9: Hmm, Well, you mentioned Mars, so maybe let's start but

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Speaker 9: that what's wrong with Mars now, isn't it sort of

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Speaker 9: already in the habitable zone?

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Speaker 1: So Mars is a lot smaller than Earth and a

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Speaker 1: little further out, so it gets a lot less sun

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Speaker 1: than Earth does, which makes it very very cold. It

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Speaker 1: also has a very dilute atmosphere, so it has trouble

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Speaker 1: hanging on to any of the heat that it does

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Speaker 1: get from the Sun. So bringing Mars closer Earth would

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Speaker 1: definitely help that. You also need to increase the atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: so you couldn't totally avoid doing terraforming. You need to

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Speaker 1: make an oxygen rich atmosphere unless you want to live

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Speaker 1: in bubbles your whole life. But bringing it closer to

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Speaker 1: Earth would be handy. It would also make it easier

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Speaker 1: to colonize Mars, like the round trip time would be shorter,

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Speaker 1: connections between the two civilizations could be crisper, So there'd

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Speaker 1: be a lot of advantages to having Mars closer in.

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Speaker 9: Oh, I see, it's sort of like that saying, right,

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Speaker 9: like if Muhammad can't go to the mountain, then you

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Speaker 9: bring the mountain to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's sort of like where you're going to

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Speaker 1: buy your vacation house. Is it just going to be

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Speaker 1: half an hour away or is it a nine our

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Speaker 1: plane flight. It's a lot easier if it's just the

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Speaker 1: short drive.

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Speaker 9: But is he the biggest problem for Mars? It's I

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Speaker 9: know it's cold, but it's not like crazy cold.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Mars is definitely like less comfortable than Antarctica,

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Speaker 1: so it's not cold the way like the surface of

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Speaker 1: Pluto is, but it's definitely very cold, too cold for humans.

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Speaker 1: But that's all connected to the atmosphere, right. It has

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Speaker 1: a very dilute atmosphere, so it doesn't hold in that temperature.

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Speaker 1: That thin atmosphere also means that it doesn't protect you

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Speaker 1: from cosmic rays the way the Earth's atmosphere does. It

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Speaker 1: also doesn't have a magnetic field to do a lot

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Speaker 1: of shielding. So yeah, there's big problems with Mars that

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Speaker 1: you couldn't solve even by moving it.

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Speaker 9: So then would it even help to move it, Like

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Speaker 9: if it got warmer, would it maybe just blow off

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Speaker 9: all the atmosphere or is this an actual working proposal.

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Speaker 1: No, that's definitely an issue. Now you bring it warmer,

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Speaker 1: you're going to melt some of the frozen CO two

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Speaker 1: for example that's at the poles, and that's going to

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Speaker 1: increase the atmosphere, but you might also blow it off. Right,

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Speaker 1: as you say, is increasing radiation because Mars is smaller,

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Speaker 1: so it doesn't have the same gravity as Earth, so

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Speaker 1: it's harder for it to hang onto its atmosphere. That's

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Speaker 1: a bigger issue for the moons for example, like Europa,

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Speaker 1: or Enceladus or Io. All these big moons of the

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Speaker 1: gas giants. A lot of them have frozen surfaces, and

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Speaker 1: some of them even have like liquid oceans underneath them.

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Speaker 1: But if you brought them into the habitable zone, you

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Speaker 1: would melt those surfaces and boil off those oceans and

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Speaker 1: leave yourself with just a rocky core. So moving these

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Speaker 1: things to the habitable zone wouldn't necessarily work.

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Speaker 9: Well, let's say that we try with Mars and we

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Speaker 9: wanted to make it as warm as Earth. How much

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Speaker 9: would you.

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Speaker 1: Have to move it in Well, given the current atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: you'd have to have Mars be closer to the Sun

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Speaker 1: than Earth, because Mars can't hang on to the heat.

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Speaker 1: But if you just wanted to move Mars like near

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Speaker 1: the Earth's orbit so that it was in the same

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Speaker 1: zone it was easier to go back and forth, which

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Speaker 1: might make terraforming and building an atmosphere easier as well.

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Speaker 1: Then you'd need to do what's called a a Homan transfer,

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Speaker 1: which is a way to like change orbits. This is

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Speaker 1: what spaceships do. For example, if they're orbiting high and

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Speaker 1: they want to go low, or they're orbiting low and

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Speaker 1: they want to go high. It's a classic way to

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Speaker 1: change your orbit by firing your rocket thrusters.

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Speaker 9: How does it work? Do you have to like accelerate

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Speaker 9: or just move away from the sun or towards the Sun?

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Speaker 9: How does that work?

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Speaker 1: So there's a zillion different ways you could do it,

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Speaker 1: but the Homan transfer is the one that requires the

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Speaker 1: least energy, and it definitely requires some force, some acceleration.

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Speaker 1: Imagine you're in a circular orbits you have a particular

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Speaker 1: velocity and a particular radius, and that's all aligned and nice,

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Speaker 1: and now you want to be in a different circular orbit,

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Speaker 1: maybe larger, maybe smaller. What you need to do is

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Speaker 1: change to an elliptical orbit. So you fire your thrusters,

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Speaker 1: so you move out of your circular orbit into an

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Speaker 1: elliptical orbit. Elliptical orbit, because an ellipse doesn't have a

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Speaker 1: fixed radius, right, a circle is a fixed radius. You're

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Speaker 1: always the same distance from the Sun or whatever. An

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Speaker 1: ellipse you get closer sometimes and further other times. You

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Speaker 1: go on this elliptical orbit temporarily, and then when you

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Speaker 1: get to the radius you want, you fire your rockets

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Speaker 1: again to put yourself back into a circular orbit at

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Speaker 1: that new radius. So it's two firings of your rocket,

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Speaker 1: two accelerations, two delta vs as they call them in

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Speaker 1: the space business.

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Speaker 9: Oh, I see. So you wouldn't have to fire your

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Speaker 9: rockets or push the planet the w hallway. You just

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Speaker 9: give it like a one initial push, and then later,

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Speaker 9: when you're further where you want to be, you give

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Speaker 9: it another push.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 9: And in the case where you want to get closer

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Speaker 9: to the Sun, you're talking about slowing down the planet, right, you.

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Speaker 1: Want to slow it down, you also have to change

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Speaker 1: its direction, right, because in an elliptical orbit operates differently

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Speaker 1: from a circular orbit, So you want to change your

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Speaker 1: whole vector, not just the magnitude.

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Speaker 9: But yeah, okay, so we have to slow down Mars.

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Speaker 9: And then once it gets closer to Earth, or maybe

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Speaker 9: even beyond Earth or its orbit, then you want to

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Speaker 9: slow it down some more.

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Speaker 1: Well, things in the inner Solar System orbit at a

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Speaker 1: higher velocity than things in the outer Solar System, and

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Speaker 1: that's just basic circular motion. So for example, Earth is

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Speaker 1: moving at thirty kilometers per second relative to the Sun

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Speaker 1: and Mars is moving at twenty four kilometers per second.

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Speaker 1: Relative to the Sun, and that doesn't depend on mass,

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Speaker 1: It just depends on radius. At every radius is a

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Speaker 1: certain velocity you need in order to move in a

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Speaker 1: circular orbit. In the end, you'd have to speed Mars

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Speaker 1: up in order to get it to move at the

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Speaker 1: Earth's orbit.

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Speaker 9: All right, So then once you're in this closer orbit

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Speaker 9: to the Sun, then you'll eat in a stable orbit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And so it did the calculation for like

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Speaker 1: how much of a kick would you need to give

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Speaker 1: Mars in order to accomplish this, And so initially, to

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Speaker 1: move Mars into an elliptical orbit, you have to change

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Speaker 1: its velocity by like two and a half kilometers per second,

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Speaker 1: which is not a small amount. I mean Mars is

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Speaker 1: currently going like twenty four kilometers per second, so it's

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Speaker 1: like more than ten percent of the speed of Mars.

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Speaker 1: And then you're in the elyptical orbit. And then to

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Speaker 1: kick it back into a circular orbit, you have to

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Speaker 1: give it a delta v of almost three kilometers per second.

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Speaker 1: And so those are the two kicks that you have

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Speaker 1: to give Mars in order to change its orbit to

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Speaker 1: have the same radius as the Earth's orbit.

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Speaker 9: Oh interesting, And so it sort of sounds like it's

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Speaker 9: going to be hard, right, because you have to sloid

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Speaker 9: down by ten percent of a whole giant planet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And it's fascinating because these numbers don't depend

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Speaker 1: on mass, Like it's the same for a proton as

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Speaker 1: it is for a planet when you're talking in terms

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Speaker 1: of delta V. But then when you think about it

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Speaker 1: in terms of energy, right, the energy is like one

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Speaker 1: half mv squared, Then the mass really does affect it.

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Speaker 1: It takes a lot more energy to change the orbit

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Speaker 1: of a planet relative to a proton. And these planets

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Speaker 1: just have so much mass. Even Mars, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of small, has like an unfathomable amount of stuff, and

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Speaker 1: so to move Mars from one orbit to the other

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Speaker 1: would take like ten to the thirty one jewels.

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Speaker 9: Well, that's a lot of jewels. What would that mean? Like,

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Speaker 9: could you use rockets to you know, slow yourself down?

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Speaker 9: How would you even slow down a planet?

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Speaker 1: This is a huge amount of energy, like orders of magnitude,

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Speaker 1: much more than humanity produces and uses every year, So

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Speaker 1: you'd need something crazy. You basically have to build like

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Speaker 1: a rocket and attach it to the planet and drive

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Speaker 1: the planet like a spaceship. So the simplest way to

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Speaker 1: do this is to like dig stuff out of the

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Speaker 1: planet and launch it into space. If you could pick

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Speaker 1: up a rock and throw it into space so it

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Speaker 1: doesn't like come back to the planet it reaches escape velocity,

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Speaker 1: then effectively that's giving the whole planet a little push, right,

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Speaker 1: because by conservation momentum, the rock goes one way, the

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Speaker 1: planet goes the other way. Now, that's a really tiny

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Speaker 1: little push because it's just a little rock. But if

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Speaker 1: you keep doing it, and you do a lot of it,

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Speaker 1: and you push those rocks really really fast, then effectively

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Speaker 1: you are pushing the planet. So if you build something

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Speaker 1: which like dig stuff out of Mars and throws it

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Speaker 1: into space, that's essentially a rocket attached to Mars. And

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Speaker 1: that's how you could do it.

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Speaker 9: Couldn't you just use rockets.

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Speaker 1: Like build rockets and just point them at the ground.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, basically build them upside down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, you can do that. But then where you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get all the fuel? Right? The thing is you

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Speaker 1: need an enormous amount of energy, and so you might

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Speaker 1: as well take the propulsion from the planet itself. This

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Speaker 1: an incredible amount, like in order to do this on

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Speaker 1: Mars and achieve this kind of transfer. You just dig

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Speaker 1: out a trillion kilograms of material and eject it into

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Speaker 1: space at ninety nine percent of the speed of light

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Speaker 1: every single day for almost five thousand years.

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Speaker 9: WHOA, that sounds crazy. So this is using your like

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Speaker 9: scooping up dirt and throw it in into space scheme.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we haven't even talked about, like how do

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Speaker 1: you accomplish getting dirt to ninety nine percent the speed

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Speaker 1: of light?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 9: Could you you just use like atomic bombs or something

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Speaker 9: you know, I'm thinking of like a rocket that uses

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Speaker 9: nuclear fission.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you might want to use fission or fusion as

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Speaker 1: a way to accelerate this stuff. But you can need

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Speaker 1: some propellant, right, you need to change the momentum of

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Speaker 1: the planet, which means you need to eject something from it.

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Speaker 1: The other thing you could do is like solar power, right,

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Speaker 1: try to use that somehow. But either way, it's just

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Speaker 1: an overwhelming amount of energy, something that humanity you can't

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Speaker 1: even conceive of producing. Not to mention like wrestling into

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Speaker 1: this crazy scheme.

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Speaker 9: Because you need ten to the thirty one jewels, but like,

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Speaker 9: how much is this then an atomic bomb? Give off.

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Speaker 9: I'm just trying to get a sense of like, is

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Speaker 9: it thirty thousand nuclear bombs or thirty basillion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, atomic bombs are pretty impressive, but they give off

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Speaker 1: order of magnitude like ten to the twelve, ten to

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Speaker 1: the thirteen jewels, and we need ten to the thirty one.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking like, you know, ten to the nineteen

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Speaker 1: nuclear bombs.

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Speaker 9: Whoa, so that's one followed by nineteen zero number of

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Speaker 9: nuclear bombs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So pretty impractical. Another way to do this,

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Speaker 1: maybe is to try to take advantage of other things

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Speaker 1: in the Solar System that have energy in them, you know,

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Speaker 1: things like asteroids and comets. These things have a vast

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Speaker 1: amount of gravitational energy as it come towards the inner

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Speaker 1: Solar System. They're moving with very high velocity, and we

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Speaker 1: often are using the gravity of other things in the

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Speaker 1: Solar System to navigate, like when we send spacecraft out

440
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: there where you slingshot them around Jupiter or this kind

441
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 1: of stuff. So if you could somehow direct comets from

442
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: the Ord Cloud or the Kuiper Belt to rain down

443
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: and pass near Mars, each one of them would give

444
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: Mars a little bit of a tug. If you did

445
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 1: a gravitational slingshot using comets, it would change the trajectory

446
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: of the comet and the planet. So if you did

447
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: that enough times, you could change the trajectory of the

448
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: planet enough to accomplish this same maneuver. But it would

449
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: still take a lot of comets.

450
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, it sounds like you were just making it

451
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 9: more complicated because you still have to spend all that

452
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 9: energy to move the comets to get out there to

453
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 9: the comets and then move them.

454
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it would take that much energy

455
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: to move the comets because you're using the energy of

456
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 1: the Sun. You just take the comment, give it a

457
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: little nudge so it falls out of orbit. You know,

458
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 1: they're moving pretty slow that far out, and so it

459
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: doesn't take a big nudge to get them to fall

460
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 1: towards the Inner Solar System. And then they gather a

461
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 1: lot of energy as they're coming in, and you take

462
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 1: advantage of it when they're zipping by. But you know

463
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: that's dangerous for other reasons, like you make a miscalculation

464
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: and boom, comet hits the Earth and it's all over.

465
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 9: Yeah, then we'll really need to move to another planet exactly.

466
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: So Lydia a great question. I don't think it's really

467
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: practical anytime in the near future, but I hope somebody

468
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: figures it out.

469
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 9: It sounds like maybe it's easier just to terror for Mars,

470
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 9: so that becomes warmer.

471
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a whole episode about how you might

472
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: do that. It's very challenging and quite impractical. Maybe less

473
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: impractical than moving the planet. It's still very, very difficult.

474
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: I see.

475
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 9: All right, Well, maybe the solution is just to hire

476
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 9: Marie Konda to come clean up our planet and then

477
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 9: nobody will want to move.

478
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: That's right, Lydia, and I hope you clean up your room.

479
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:11,479
Speaker 9: Hey, yeah, and Lydia's parents, you're welcome. All right, Well,

480
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 9: thank you Lydia for that awesome question. Now let's get

481
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 9: to our other questions of the day. We have a

482
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 9: question about the Higgs field and about particle colliders, so

483
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 9: let's get to those. But first let's take a quick break.

484
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 11: AI might be the most important new computer technology ever.

485
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501
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Speaker 13: I'm Buzsknight and I'm the host of the Taking a

502
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Speaker 13: Walk podcast music History on Foot John Oates.

503
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 14: Great songs endured, and I'm very proud and happy to

504
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Speaker 14: know that I was part of something that will endure.

505
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Speaker 13: The podcast is an audio diary of insightful conversations with

506
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Speaker 13: musicians and the inside stories.

507
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: Behind their music.

508
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 15: Russ Kunkle, the basic connection that I had with someone

509
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Speaker 15: that was great coming out of the whiskey was David Crosby.

510
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: David.

511
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 15: I met David and Steven and Graham kind of around

512
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 15: the same time, basically through my wife Leah, who is

513
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 15: Cass Elliott's sister.

514
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 13: The message of the podcast is simple, honest conversation with

515
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 13: musicians about the music they create. Mike Campbell of The Heartbreakers.

516
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: It is correct.

517
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 6: I rarely worked things out. I like to go off

518
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 6: the cup and try to grab things out of the

519
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 6: air while you're playing the song and try to catch

520
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 6: a little magic.

521
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 13: Listen to the Take in a Walk podcast on the

522
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 13: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

523
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Jackie Thomas, the host of a brand new

524
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: Black Effect original series, black Lit, the podcast for diving

525
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: deep into the rich world of black literature. I'm Jackie Thomas,

526
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: and I'm inviting you to join me in a vibrant

527
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Speaker 2: community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories.

528
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Speaker 2: Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who

529
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Speaker 2: listen to audio books while commuting or running errands. For

530
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Speaker 2: those who find themselves seeking solad, wisdom, and refuge between

531
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Speaker 2: the chapters, from thought provoking novels to powerful poetry. We'll

532
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: explore the stories that shape our culture. Together. We'll dissect

533
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 2: classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the

534
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Speaker 2: brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to amplify

535
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Speaker 2: the voices of black writers and to bring their words

536
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: to life. Listen to black Lit on the iHeartRadio app,

537
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

538
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: I'm doctor Laurie Santos, host of the Happiness Lab podcast.

539
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: As the US elections approach, it can feel like we're

540
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 3: angrier and more divided than ever. But in a new

541
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 3: copule season of my podcast, I'll share with the science

542
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 3: really shows that we're surprisingly more united than most people think.

543
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 7: We all know something is wrong in our culture and

544
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 7: our politics, and that we need to do better, and

545
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 7: that we can do better with.

546
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 3: The help of Stanford psychologist Jamiale Zaki.

547
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 11: It's really tragic.

548
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 5: If cynicism were appeal, it'd be a poison.

549
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,959
Speaker 3: We'll see that our fellow humans, even those we disagree with,

550
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 3: are more generous than we assume.

551
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 16: My assumption, my feeling, my hunch is that a lot

552
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 16: of us are actually looking for a way to disagree

553
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 16: and still be in relationships with each other.

554
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 3: All that on the Happiness Lap. Listen on the iHeartRadio app,

555
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 3: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

556
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 8: In nineteen eighty two, Atari players had one thing on

557
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 8: their minds sword Quest. This wasn't just a new game.

558
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 8: Atari promised one hundred and fifty grand in prizes to

559
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 8: four finalists, but the prizes disappeared, and what started as

560
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 8: a video game promotion became one of the most controversial

561
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 8: moments in eighties pop culture.

562
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: I just don't believe they exist. If my reactions shock

563
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: at awe.

564
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 9: That sword was amazing, It was so beautiful.

565
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 8: I'm Jamie Loftus. Join me this for the Legend of

566
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 8: sword Quest, a podcast about the fall of Atari and

567
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 8: the disappearing sword Quest prizes. We'll follow the quest for

568
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 8: lost treasure across four decades.

569
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 9: It's almost like a metaphor for the industry and Atari

570
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 9: itself in a way.

571
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 8: Listen to the Legend of sword Quest on the iHeartRadio app,

572
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 8: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

573
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 9: All right, we're answering listener questions here today, and our

574
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 9: next question comes from Mark, who has a question about

575
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 9: the Higgs Field.

576
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 17: Hey, daniel Le Jorge I'm back with a serious question,

577
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 17: just as I sort of feel confident that I'm building

578
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 17: a mental map, at least at the most primitive.

579
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: Level, of how this quantum stuff works.

580
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 17: This Higgs Boston is I don't understand how does a

581
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 17: field lend mass to other fields?

582
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: What does it?

583
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 8: In part?

584
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 17: If mass is like what potential energy you're gathered?

585
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 7: What?

586
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 17: Yeah, that's the question. Where is the mass coming from?

587
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 17: Then it just seems like we're at another level of

588
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 17: incomprehensibility here. How is it transferring mass?

589
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 9: All right? A pretty massive question here about basically how

590
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 9: does the Higgs field work? How does it give mass

591
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 9: other particles?

592
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, a really good question, a really deep question. And

593
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: when that we've been sort of probing in several different

594
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: episodes on the podcast, trying to give people an intuition

595
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: for how this works.

596
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 9: Well, I guess maybe let's go get back to basics.

597
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 9: So the Higgs field is something that was proven to

598
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 9: exist about ten years ago, and in the media you

599
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 9: always hear that it's the field and the particle that

600
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 9: gives other particles their mass.

601
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And maybe we should start with the concept

602
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: of a field because this is a little bit mysterious

603
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: for people. I mean, particles are something we can sort

604
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: of imagine. We think of them as tiny specks of

605
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: stuff explaining the microscopic world. You see. They're traces in

606
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: cloud chambers or particle detectors. But fields are a little

607
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: bit more in direct We don't ever see fields directly,

608
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: and we say that particles move through fields, and particles

609
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: are excitations of fields. And a field is just like

610
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: a number that you put everywhere in space, like the

611
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: Higgs field, for example. It's just a number. It has

612
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: a value here, it has a value there, it has

613
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: a value somewhere else. But those values aren't just random

614
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: and arbitrary. There's mathematics that describe how those values relate

615
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,479
Speaker 1: to each other and how those values change in time.

616
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: The same way. It's like if you have a sheet,

617
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: one that you might put on your bed and you

618
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: wave it in the air, right, waves move through that sheet,

619
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: and the same way waves can move through the Higgs

620
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: field or any other kind of field.

621
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 18: Right.

622
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 9: Right, But I guess maybe a question is like our

623
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 9: fields physical things or just sort of like mathematical conveniences

624
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 9: that physicists use in their equations, Meaning like if you

625
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 9: have a field, but no particles in it? Is that

626
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 9: field there?

627
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: Nobody knows the answer to that question, man. I mean,

628
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: I think the mainstream view is that fields are the

629
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: fundamental building blocks of the universe as we know so far.

630
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: We don't know what they're made out of, and we

631
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: think of particles as emerging from fields. There're these special

632
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: ripples in the fields. They move in a special way.

633
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: There's something that comes out of the fields. But nobody

634
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: really knows that the fields are there, or if they's

635
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: just something we think about. To answer your second question,

636
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: in our current conception, if you believe fields are there,

637
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: then they're still there with no particles in them. Right.

638
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: They exist everywhere in space and they can never go

639
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: down all the way to zero because they're quantum, so

640
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: they're always fuzzing and frothing a tiny little bit. But

641
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: whether fields are really there, like when we're not looking

642
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: at them, is not a science question. It's a philosophy question.

643
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: It's one you can't test. It requires answering the question

644
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: what happens when you don't look, And to do science

645
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: you have to look.

646
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 9: M But I guess you know we talked about and

647
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 9: I know you said that fields have like an energy

648
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 9: to them. So if they have an energy to them,

649
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 9: doesn't that mean that they sort of exist when you're

650
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 9: not looking, well, we.

651
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: Describe them as existing and having energy, that doesn't mean

652
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: that they are there, that they are real. You know,

653
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: there's no way to interact with a field directly to

654
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: like measure it. You know, you can see this effect

655
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: on other stuff, but you can't actually measure them directly,

656
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: even if you do ascribe energy to it. But the

657
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: energy in the field is a crucial concept for getting

658
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: an intuition for like how this all works, because what's

659
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: happening in the field when it's oscillating is sometimes it's

660
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: oscillating in a way that moves like way you wiggle

661
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: your sheet and a ripple moves through it. But sometimes

662
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: you can also oscillate in place, and what's happening there

663
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: is that the field is wiggling sort of the same

664
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: way that like a ball trapped in a well if

665
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: there isn't any friction, can go up and down for ever.

666
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: It's switching between like kinetic energy it's moving fast at

667
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: the bottom of the well, and potential energy. It's not moving,

668
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: but it still has energy of location. When it's at

669
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: the top of the well. Put a ball in a

670
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: little well. It can oscillate around that forever. Fields can

671
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: do that too. They can sort of oscillate in place,

672
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: like a little standing wave, and that's where their mass

673
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: comes from.

674
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 9: Like the whole field, or just like in a little spot.

675
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: At any point. These fields can do that. So, for example,

676
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: the electron field can be mostly empty and then in

677
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: one spot they can be doing this special oscillation. And

678
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: that's what an electron is. It's this special oscillation of

679
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: the electron field. It's got some energy and it's oscillating

680
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: in this stable way. And some fields can do this,

681
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: like the electron field can do this. They can just

682
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: oscillate in place, and that's what we call an electron

683
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: and that's an electron at rest. And fields that can

684
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: do this are fields that have mass. Like the photon field,

685
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: it can only oscillate in the way the ripples move.

686
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: It can never oscillate in place. Right. The electromagnet field

687
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: can't make you a photon that's just sitting there because

688
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: photons don't have mass, and so in order to do

689
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: this thing, to oscillate in place, they have to have mass.

690
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 9: Oh, well, that's sort of another philosophical question, right, like

691
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 9: can an electron stay still? Like, isn't it a quantum particle?

692
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. An electron can never be

693
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: located to exactly one location, which you have is like

694
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: a little packet. And we talked about like how long

695
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: is a particle, how wide is a particle on a

696
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: recent podcast. It depends on how much uncertainty there is,

697
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: And so you always have like a little neighborhood of

698
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: the field that's sort of oscillating coherently, and that depends

699
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: on the uncertainty in those measurements. So it's never like

700
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: a dot, it's none. Think of it like a single

701
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: point in the field as doing the oscillation. Think of

702
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: it like a little localized packet. And the important thing

703
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: to understand is that none of these fields operate independently. Right.

704
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: You have a field that has some energy, it's oscillating,

705
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: but there are also other fields, and the fields can

706
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: transfer energy back and forth. That's how, for example, the

707
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: photon field and the electron field, energy can slide between

708
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: Themhotons can turn into electrons and positrons or photons can

709
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: push on electrons, for example, in the same way the

710
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: Higgs field interacts with all of these fields and changes

711
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: how they wiggle, and then changing how they wiggle it

712
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: gives them mass. It gives some of these fields the

713
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: capacity to do this wiggle in place thing, which is

714
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: what gives those particles mass.

715
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 9: I think you're getting to Mark's question now, which is

716
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 9: that like, how exactly does that happen? And it seems

717
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 9: like you sort of said it this both ways, like

718
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 9: you need mass for it to stay in place, or

719
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 9: it can only stay in place if you give it mass.

720
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So go back to the thinking about the

721
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: ball in the well. The ball in the well moves

722
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: in a certain way because it has mass. Right now,

723
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: if the ball didn't have mass, it would operate very differently,

724
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: like it wouldn't feel the same gravitational potential energy, it

725
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't oscillate in the well that way. So imagine you

726
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: took a ball without mass and you added some special

727
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: magic forces that changed the way the ball moved. So

728
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: now it moves exactly the same way it would if

729
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: it did have mass. Okay, so every time the ball

730
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: is moving, you give it a little special push to

731
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 1: change its direction so that it moves exactly the same

732
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: way it did as if it had mass. That's what

733
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: the Higgs field is doing. It's taking particles that naturally

734
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: don't have mass. The electron wouldn't have any mass without

735
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: Higgs field and changing the way it moves in exactly

736
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: the same way that you would expect if the electron

737
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: field had its own mass by itself. That's why we

738
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: say it gives the electron mass because it changes the

739
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: way the electron field wiggles and precisely the way it

740
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: would if the electron had its own mass. So the

741
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: mass comes from the Higgs field and the interaction between

742
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: the Higgs field and the electron field. It's not inherent

743
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: in the electron field itself.

744
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 9: Meaning I guess I got a little confused with your

745
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 9: ball analogy because now I'm thinking, like, the ball has

746
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 9: mass or what. But it seemed interesting to think about that.

747
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 9: An electron is just a standing wiggle in the electron field,

748
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 9: And you're saying that because of the way that the

749
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 9: electron field and the Higgs field interact, then that wiggle

750
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 9: can stay in place. Is that kind of what you're saying?

751
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So for the electron field to wiggle in place,

752
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: it needs to be able to trade kinetic energy for

753
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: potential energy and back to kinetic energy and then back

754
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: to back to potential energy. That's what the wiggle is, right,

755
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: And in order to do that, it needs to be

756
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: able to have potential energy, and that's what the Higgs

757
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: field gives it. Interactions between the electron field and the

758
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: Higgs field create a potential well for the electron which

759
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: lets it oscillate in.

760
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 9: Place, like it gives it a place for the energy

761
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 9: to go to.

762
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it can go from kinetic to potential and

763
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: then back, whereas a photon field is like just kinetic energy.

764
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: It's always flying through space that doesn't slosh back into

765
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: potential energy and then kinetic energy and potential energy and

766
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: kinetic energy.

767
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 9: Well, let me recap. Maybe what you're saying is that

768
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 9: in order for the electron field to wiggle in place

769
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 9: and therefore have an electron instead of need something to

770
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 9: suck some energy out of it kind of in place.

771
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 9: Otherwise it we'll just go somewhere, we'll take off.

772
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: You could still have an electron, it would be massless, right,

773
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: in order to have an electron at rest, it has

774
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: to have mass, and so you need something to change

775
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: how the electron is oscillating. It's not exactly taking the

776
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: energy out of the electron field. It's just creating potential

777
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: energy for the electron You know, imagine, for example, a

778
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: kid on a swing. Right. In order for the kid

779
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: to swing back and forth, that has to be the

780
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: swing there pushing them back as they move. Without the swing,

781
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: the kid just flies off. So the Higgs field is

782
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: sort of like the swing that keeps the kid oscillating

783
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: back and forth rather than just flying off.

784
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 9: It pushes the electron wiggle to stay in place.

785
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And in another universe where you didn't have

786
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: a Higgs field and you had an electron field that

787
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: actually had mass on its own, it would wiggle in

788
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: exactly the same way.

789
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 9: Are there things that have mass on their own?

790
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: There are none in our universe. We don't think particles

791
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: like that can exist because it would break some of

792
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: the other laws of particle physics, some of the symmetries

793
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: that we think are held. That's why you need something

794
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: like the Higgs field to give these particles mass.

795
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 9: Ah interesting, And I guess, just to be clear, you

796
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 9: need the Higgs field to give things resting mass, right.

797
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, resting mass is the only kind of mass we

798
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: think about. There's this concept called relativistic mass, which is

799
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: really just a confusing way to think about energy. You

800
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: shouldn't think about things gaining mass as they go faster.

801
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: We define mass to be an invarying quantity, the same

802
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: as you would measure at rest.

803
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 9: But I guess this idea that you know a lot

804
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 9: of our mass that we have in our bodies comes

805
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 9: from the energy doesn't necessarily come from particles. It comes

806
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 9: from the trapped energy between the particles. That's a different

807
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 9: kind of mass, right, Or does that mass also comes

808
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 9: from the Higgs field?

809
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: Oh? No, great point. You're right, This is not the

810
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: only way to get mass, right, Mass in general comes

811
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: from internal stored energy. What we've been describing is like

812
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: how the electron gets internal stored energy, is that oscillates

813
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: in place that comes from the Higgs field. Quarks do

814
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: the same thing. Quarks get energy from the Higgs field.

815
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: But you put three quarks together into a proton that

816
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: has much more mass than the mass of the individual quarks.

817
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: And that's because those quarks now have a little bounce state.

818
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: The proton is like a little box keeping them oscillating

819
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 1: in place, and that energy comes from the strong force

820
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: creating that box, not from the Higgs field, and that

821
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: most of the mass of the proton comes from the

822
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: energy of the bonds between the quarks, this little bull

823
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: that the quarks live in that we call the proton.

824
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: So most of the mass in your bodies comes actually

825
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: from these bounds created by the strong force that give

826
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: the proton internal stored energy. And that's really where mass

827
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: comes from, any kind of internal stored energy, not energy

828
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: of motion, energy at rest, internal stored energy.

829
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 9: So then the Higgs field is responsible for some of

830
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 9: our mass, but not all of it.

831
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, really a tiny, tiny fraction, because quarks have almost

832
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: no mass. Almost all of your mass comes from the

833
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: mass of protons and neutrons, which is overwhelmingly from the

834
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: strong force.

835
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 9: So when they say, like the Higgs field and the

836
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 9: Higgs boson gives particles their mass, it's maybe not as

837
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 9: grand deal as of a statement as it may sound

838
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 9: to a lot of people.

839
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean, without the Higgs field, all the

840
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 1: fundamental particles would have no mass, and then nothing would

841
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: be possible, like electrons would fly out of orbits at

842
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: the speed of light, all this kind of stuff. But

843
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: you're right, most of the mass in the universe doesn't

844
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: come directly from the Higgs field.

845
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 9: Where does it come from, Daniel?

846
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: Most of the mass in protons comes from the strong force, right.

847
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: It gives internalstored energy to the proton, and that's what

848
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: gives us mass. A deeper question is like, well, all right,

849
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: you're talking about mass, but why is inertial mass a thing? Anyway?

850
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: Why is internal stored energy change how much force it

851
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: takes to get some acceleration? And that's a really deep.

852
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 9: Question, That's what I mean. Yeah, that's still a big

853
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 9: UNNOI right.

854
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: Still a big unknown. You know, why do we even

855
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: have a inertiut man?

856
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 9: Yeah? Like why are heavier? Or at the same time,

857
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 9: why are more energetic things harder to move? Like we

858
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 9: don't know that, right, nobody knows that.

859
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, we describe that using general relativity, but we don't

860
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: have an answer for like why in the same way

861
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: that like general relativity describes that space does get curved

862
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: in the presence of mass, but doesn't really tell us

863
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: like why does that happen? What is the mechanism for

864
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 1: underlying it? To understand that, we'd need to have some

865
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: deeper level theory that explains like what space is, but

866
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: we have no idea yet.

867
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 9: Right, right, Or maybe we could just move to a

868
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 9: universe in which people have figured it out.

869
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 19: Let's just take a big rocket, put it, we get

870
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 19: a U haul, we'll put pack all the physicists into it,

871
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 19: and then and then just ship into a more knowledgeable universe.

872
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, or just more knowledgeable solar system even you know,

873
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: to go to another universe. Let's just go visit the

874
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: aliens and go to their physics school and learn how

875
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: this all works.

876
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 9: Unless they're also on the move, in which case you

877
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 9: might get there and then nobody's there. We missed the party, man, Yeah,

878
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 9: you missed the main course, which might have might be

879
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 9: you if there are aliens involved. All right, Well, I

880
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 9: think that answers a question for Mark, which is just

881
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 9: sort of like, how does the Higgs field work? And

882
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 9: it sounds like it's mainly about the interaction between the

883
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 9: Higgs field and the electron field allowing it to wiggle

884
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 9: in place, which is what looks like mass.

885
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: That's right, And if you want a deeper intuition into

886
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: what fields are and how this all.

887
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 9: Works, then it's not possible.

888
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: So then I really recommend Matt Stressler's book Waves In

889
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 1: an Impossible See, which starts from almost nothing, uses almost

890
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: no math, and gives you a really deep intuition for Fields.

891
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 9: All right, well, thank you Mark for that question. Now

892
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 9: let's get to our last question of the day, and

893
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 9: it's about Daniel's future career. It seems about the particle

894
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 9: collider at CERN, so let's dig into that. But first

895
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 9: let's take another quick break.

896
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 13: I'm buzs Knight and I'm the host of the Taking

897
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 13: a Walk podcast music History on Foot.

898
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 14: John Oates Great songs endured, and I'm very proud and

899
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 14: happy to know that I was part of something that

900
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 14: will endure.

901
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 13: The podcast is an audio diary of insightful conversations with

902
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 13: musicians and the inside stories.

903
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: Behind their music.

904
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 15: Russ Kunkle, The basic connection that I had with someone

905
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 15: that was great coming out of.

906
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: The Whiskey was David Crosby.

907
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 15: David I met David and Steven and Graham kind of

908
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 15: around the same time, basically through my wife Leah, who

909
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 15: is Cass Elliott's sister.

910
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 13: The message of the podcast is simple, honest conversation with

911
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 13: musicians about the music they create. Mike Campbell of the Heartbreakers.

912
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 6: It is correct. I rarely worked things out. I like

913
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 6: to go off the cup and try to grab things

914
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 6: out of the air while you're playing the song and

915
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 6: try to catch a little magic.

916
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 13: Listen to the Taking a Walk podcast on the iHeartRadio app,

917
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 13: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

918
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Jackie Thomas, the host of a brand new

919
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 2: Black Effect original series, black Lit, the podcast for diving

920
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 2: deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jackie Thomas,

921
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 2: and I'm inviting you to join me in a vibrant

922
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 2: community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories.

923
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who

924
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 2: listen to audio books while commuting or running errands. For

925
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge Between

926
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: the chapters, from thought provoking novels to powerful poetry, We'll

927
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: explore the stories that shape our culture. Together. We'll dissect

928
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 2: classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the

929
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to amplify

930
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: the voices of Black writers and to bring their words

931
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 2: to life. Listen to black Lit on the iHeartRadio app,

932
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

933
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 3: I'm doctor Laurie Santos, host of the Happiness Lab podcast.

934
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 3: Is the US elections approach. It can feel like we're

935
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: angrier and more divided than ever, But in a new

936
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: hopeful season of my podcast, I'll share with the science

937
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 3: it really shows that we're surprisingly more united than most

938
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: people think.

939
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 7: We all know something is wrong in our culture, in

940
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 7: our politics, and that we need to do better, and

941
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 7: that we can do better.

942
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 3: With the help of Stanford psychologist Jamil Zaki.

943
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 1: It's really tragic.

944
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 20: If cynicism were appeal, it'd be a poison.

945
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: We'll see that our fellow humans, even those we disagree with,

946
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 3: are more generous than we assume.

947
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 16: My assumption, my feeling, my hunch is that a lot

948
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 16: of us are actually looking for a way to disagree

949
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 16: and still be in relationships with each other.

950
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 3: All that on the Happiness Lab listen on the iHeartRadio app,

951
00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 3: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

952
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 18: I'm Carrie Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports,

953
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 18: where we live at the intersection of sports and culture.

954
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 18: Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry Caitlin

955
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 18: Clark versus Angel Reese.

956
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:17,919
Speaker 20: I know I'll go down in history.

957
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 16: People an't talking about women's basketballs just because of one

958
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 16: single game.

959
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 9: Every great player needs a foil.

960
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 7: And hear them wise.

961
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 6: I just come here to play.

962
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 7: Ask Paul Ray Kendled, and that's what I focused on.

963
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 18: From college to the pros, Clark and Reeves have changed

964
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 18: the way we consume women's sports.

965
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: Angel Reese is a joy to watch.

966
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 8: She is unapologetically black.

967
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 9: I love her.

968
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 18: What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so

969
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 18: good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these

970
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 18: two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to

971
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 18: get better because the talent is getting better. This new

972
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 18: season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to

973
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 18: Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network. iHeartRadio, app,

974
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 18: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

975
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 4: The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by diet Coke.

976
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 21: We think of Franklin as the doddling dude flying a

977
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 21: kite in the rain, but those experiments are the most

978
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 21: important scientific discoveries of the time.

979
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: I'm Evan Ratliffe.

980
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 20: Last season we tackled the ingenuity of Elon Musk with

981
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 20: biographer Walter Isaacson. This time we're diving into the story

982
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 20: of Benjamin Franklin, another genius who's desperate to be dusted

983
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 20: off from history.

984
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 21: His media empire makes him the most successful self made

985
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 21: business person in America. I mean, he was never early

986
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 21: to bed, an early to rise type person. He's enormously famous.

987
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 21: Women start wearing their hair and what was called the

988
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 21: coiffor a la Franklin.

989
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 20: And who's more relevant now than ever.

990
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 21: The only other person who could have possibly been the

991
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 21: first president would have been Benjamin Franklin, but he's too

992
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 21: old and wants Washington to do it.

993
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 20: Listen to On Benjamin Franklin with Walter Isaacson on the

994
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 20: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

995
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 9: Where we're talking about listener questions here today on our

996
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 9: last question comes from Bill comes from Union City, California.

997
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 22: Hi, Daniel and Jorge. This is Bill Quirk, a retired

998
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 22: astrophysicist living in Union City, California. I'm curious what's going

999
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 22: to happen now at CERN and the other large particle

1000
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 22: colliders now that you haven't found the supersymmetric particles. What

1001
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 22: are people going to be looking at what possible discoveries

1002
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 22: can this lead to. Daniel, I don't understand how you

1003
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 22: can understand so many different things. You'll explain them so well.

1004
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 22: Thanks for everything, enjoy the show very much.

1005
00:49:59,520 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: Bye.

1006
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 9: All right, great question from Bill. So, cern is the

1007
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 9: big facility outside of Geneva where the large Hadron collider is,

1008
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 9: and I think Bill is asking what's going to happen

1009
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 9: to it? You know, there was a lot of fanfare

1010
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 9: about ten fifteen years ago about the Higgs boson, but

1011
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 9: not a lot of news since then. What are the

1012
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 9: plans for it?

1013
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, the plans are to keep running it because though

1014
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: we haven't found anything after the Higgs boson, there are

1015
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: still lots of possibilities for discoveries. Bill mentions super symmetric particles.

1016
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: These are particles that a lot of physicists hoped to

1017
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: discover shortly after finding the Higgs, but we haven't seen

1018
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 1: any of them, which has been a bit of a disappointment.

1019
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 9: Like have you ruled them out totally, like you've given

1020
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 9: up or is there still a possibility or do most

1021
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 9: physicists think they don't exist?

1022
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit of all of that sort of

1023
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,919
Speaker 1: We can't ever rule out something exists because it could

1024
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: exist but just be really really rare, like if it

1025
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: only happens once every twenty years than our collider and

1026
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,959
Speaker 1: we only run the collider for one year, we can't

1027
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: rule it out. It could also be really really heavy,

1028
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 1: like maybe our collider doesn't have enough energy to make it.

1029
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: So all we can do is we can rule out

1030
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,919
Speaker 1: low mass stuff that we could make that isn't rare,

1031
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: And so it's sort of a statistical statement. The longer

1032
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: that we run the collider, the more we can rule

1033
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: out rare stuff, and the higher the energy the collider,

1034
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: the more we can rule out heavy stuff. So we're

1035
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: always just ruling out like a fraction of that space.

1036
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: So that said, a lot of physicists claimed that nature

1037
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: really wanted very common, very low mass supersymmetric particles, and

1038
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: those people were wrong. A lot of the field has

1039
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: moved on from supersymmetry. They've sort of given up on it,

1040
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: But there's also a lot of diehards that really believe

1041
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: in it.

1042
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 9: And they believe that maybe they're there, but they're just

1043
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 9: heavier or rarer than we thought before.

1044
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe we're just looking for them wrong. And

1045
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: so they don't appear the way that we expected, and

1046
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: we need to look for them in new interesting ways.

1047
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: Maybe they're hidden in certain ways and we can reveal

1048
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: them if we're clever enough. So there's definitely a lot

1049
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: of people looking for supersymmetry. And realize also that, like

1050
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: the LEDC has been running for fifteen years or so,

1051
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: it's going to run for another fifteen but the rate

1052
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: at which the collisions happens increases very quickly. But most

1053
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: of the collisions we're ever going to see are in

1054
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: the future. That's because we get better and better at

1055
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: operating the machine, so we can have more collisions per

1056
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 1: second as time goes on. So we've seen like one

1057
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: percent of the data we're ever going to see from

1058
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: the machine. Most of the data is still in the future,

1059
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: and so it could be that that future data reveals

1060
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: something like supersymmetry or something else interesting.

1061
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 9: So to answer Bill's question, that's sort of part of

1062
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 9: the plan. The plan is for the Large Hydron Collider

1063
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 9: to just keep smashing particles for another fifteen years.

1064
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, for about another fifteen years. And we're not

1065
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 1: just looking for supersymmetry. We're also looking for all sorts

1066
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: of other stuff. We're looking for things we didn't necessarily anticipate,

1067
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 1: because you know, you land on Mars, so you don't

1068
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: just look for cats and dogs and people. You look

1069
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: for any kind of life. So we're trying to broadly imagine,

1070
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: like what new particles might be out there that we

1071
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,399
Speaker 1: didn't imagine or that are really weird and crazy. And

1072
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: one of my favorite example is actually Bill's last name.

1073
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: There's a theory of a particle called a quirk, not

1074
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: a quirk, but a quirk with an eye just like Bill. WHOA.

1075
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 9: That's an interesting coincidence.

1076
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: It is really a fun coincidence.

1077
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 9: I mean it sounds like if you just want to

1078
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 9: find a quirk, just good call Bill exactly.

1079
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: It's a really quirky theory, and it predicts particles that

1080
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: look very different from anything we've ever seen before. They

1081
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: were sort of move in a really weird way in

1082
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 1: our detector, and so far the way we've analyzed the data,

1083
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: we wouldn't be able to see these quirks. And so

1084
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: my group and a bunch of other people are starting

1085
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: to go back and analyze data to see if we

1086
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: can find evidence for these quirks. So that's just one example,

1087
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: But there could be stuff in the data we've taken

1088
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: already that we haven't found yet because we haven't figured

1089
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: out how to look for it yet. Some of the

1090
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: stuff is trickier to look for than your standard electrons,

1091
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: muons and this kind of stuff. So as we develop

1092
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: new techniques, we might be able to discover things in

1093
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: existing data, not just wait for more data.

1094
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 9: I see. Well, since you mentioned that, maybe give people

1095
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 9: a quick three minute explanation of what is a quirk

1096
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 9: because I don't think we've talked about it before.

1097
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: Have we? No, we have not. Yeah, a quirk is

1098
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: like a quark, but it has a different kind of force.

1099
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: It's like a new version of the strong force. And

1100
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: quirks are much heavier than quarks, and so when you

1101
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: produce two quarks at the particle collider, what happens is

1102
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: that the strong force doesn't like them being far apart,

1103
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: so it creates a bunch of new quarks out of

1104
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: that energy. For quirks, that's not possible because quirks are

1105
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: too massive, So the universe can't turn that energy into

1106
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: new quirks because there isn't enough energy to make quirks

1107
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: because their mass is higher, And so what that means

1108
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: is that you have these two particles that now fly

1109
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: apart from each other, and they still have that great

1110
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 1: energy between them, which means they wiggle in really weird ways.

1111
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: Rather than just flying through a magnetic field like a

1112
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: charge particle, they oscillate inside the detector, which is really

1113
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: a challenge for our current data analysis pipeline to discover.

1114
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 9: So then that's sort of the answer for bills that

1115
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,720
Speaker 9: you're a large hundred collatter is going to keep running

1116
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 9: and you're looking for I guess rarer or harder to

1117
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 9: find particles.

1118
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people are also developing techniques to look for

1119
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: things that are completely unexpected, like running machine learning based

1120
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: anomaly detection algorithms to see if there's anything just like

1121
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: really weird in the data. So we're going to keep

1122
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: minding this data hoping to make discoveries.

1123
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 9: And you're also trying to make antimatter, right and stuff

1124
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 9: like that.

1125
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: Well, in a particle collider, you can make basically anything

1126
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 1: that the universe is capable of. You smash those protons

1127
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: together and eventually you make everything on nature's menu. And

1128
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: we often make antimatter. We're hoping we might even make

1129
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: like dark matter and be able to detect it in

1130
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: our collider, all sorts of stuff. There are other experiments

1131
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: that's earned not the collider that do things like make

1132
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: anti hydrogen and study its behavior.

1133
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 9: Oh, I see, now, are there plans to make more colliders,

1134
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 9: bigger colliders, or to expand the current collider?

1135
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: Yes, all of those. We just finished put it together

1136
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: like a ten year plan for particle physics, and there's

1137
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,439
Speaker 1: some interesting proposals. Some people think that when the large

1138
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 1: Hadron collider is done running, we should build a bigger

1139
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: circular collider, and so this would involve like a larger

1140
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: tunnel under Geneva, and because it's bigger, you could have

1141
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: more energy in it. You're limited by like the strength

1142
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: of the magnets that you need to curve the particles

1143
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: around in that circle. If you can't make your magnets stronger,

1144
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: you can just make the circle bigger, and then you

1145
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: can get your particles moving faster with the same magnets.

1146
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: So that's one possibility.

1147
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 9: So you can make particles go at point nine nine

1148
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 9: nine nine nine nine nine nine with the speed of

1149
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 9: light instead of point nine nine nine nine nine nine.

1150
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, currently the collider explores up to about thirteen

1151
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: and a half terra electron volts trillion electron volts, and

1152
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: this new one would go up to fifty or one

1153
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: hundred terra electron volts. And that doesn't sound like that

1154
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: big a jump, but that's like multiplying by four or

1155
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: eight the sort of entire energy range we've ever explored.

1156
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 1: You know, it's like landing on eight new Earth like

1157
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: planets simultaneously. It's an enormous range that we could use

1158
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: to discover something.

1159
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 9: So how many dines does that give us in terms

1160
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 9: of how fast we can explain particles at a percentage

1161
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 9: at the speed of light.

1162
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't even know.

1163
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 9: A lot of nines, half a nine, three nines.

1164
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: We don't even think about it in terms of velocity

1165
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: because it's a crazy asymptopic quantity. We just think in

1166
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: terms of energy. That's right.

1167
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 9: You don't want to think that each nine cause about

1168
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:31,959
Speaker 9: ten billion bills.

1169
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: I don't like to think about that now. But these

1170
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: colliders would be very expensive because you've got to drill

1171
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,479
Speaker 1: the tunnel, you've got to build the magnets. The whole

1172
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: thing is expensive. It's tens of billions and a competitor

1173
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: on the international scene is China is proposing to maybe

1174
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: build one of these colliders over there. They think they

1175
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: have the money, and they are ramping up very quickly

1176
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: in terms of particle physics in their universities, and I

1177
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 1: think they would like to be the leader in particle

1178
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: physics in the world. So there's two big competing proposals

1179
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: there from CERN, one from China, and then there's a

1180
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: dark Horse, which is saying, hey, maybe we shouldn't be

1181
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: colliding protons or electrons, let's try colliding something else.

1182
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 9: What what else can you collide?

1183
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: Well, there's a really fun proposal for a muon collider.

1184
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: Muons are just like heavy versions of electrons. They're not hadrons,

1185
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: they're not hadrons. No, they're fundamental particles, and they're really

1186
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: hard to use because they don't last very long. Like

1187
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: electrons are stable, they last forever, but muons last a

1188
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: few microseconds, and so it's hard to get them in

1189
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: a collider and keep them going and all this kind

1190
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: of stuff. You might wonder like, well, why bother, Well,

1191
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: the answer is they have more mass than electrons do,

1192
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: and so colliding muons gives you more Higgs bosons than

1193
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: colliding electrons, because higgs boson interacts with particles that have mass, right,

1194
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: and interacts more with particles that have more mass. So

1195
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: when you smash two muons together, you have a much

1196
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: higher chance of making a Higgs boson than when you

1197
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: smash two electrons together. So the muon collider is what

1198
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: they call a Higgs factory. It would produce oodles and

1199
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: noodles of Higgs bosons and allow us to study it

1200
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: in great detail.

1201
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 9: To answer I guess what question?

1202
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, good point. I mean, the Higgs boson

1203
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: was discovered and it acts the way we expect, but

1204
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: it might be that it's not quite the Higgs boson

1205
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: we expected. It could have some weird new properties. And

1206
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: one way to make discoveries is to like measure all

1207
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: the properties of the higgs boson, its mass, it's spin,

1208
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: it's precise interactions with all the other particles, really really accurately,

1209
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: and see if it lines up with our predictions. And

1210
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: if it doesn't, that's a hint that there's something new

1211
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: going on, some new particles or feels out there that

1212
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: are messing up our calculations.

1213
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 9: All right, now, Daniel, since technically you are employed by CERN.

1214
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 9: Do we need to give a sponsored content warning here?

1215
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: I am actually not technically employed by CERN. I'm employed

1216
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: with the University of California, though I do my research

1217
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: at CERN, and I'm certainly very heavily biased here that

1218
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: I think this stuff is a lot of fun. It's

1219
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: tens of billions of dollars, so whether or not governments

1220
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: want to spend that money is a very political question. Personally,

1221
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: I think we should spend lots more money on science,

1222
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: not just particle physics, but astrophysics and condensed matter physics

1223
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: and maybe even chemistry. So I'm all in favor.

1224
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 9: Of it, right right, but not philosophy.

1225
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: Definitely more money for philosophy. I don't know if you

1226
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,479
Speaker 1: call that science or not. That's a philosophy question.

1227
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 9: All right, Well, great questions here today. Thanks for our

1228
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 9: question askers for standing in their questions.

1229
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: Thanks to everybody who thinks about the universe, wonders about it,

1230
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: and tunes into the podcast hoping to gain some understanding.

1231
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: We really love hearing your thoughts and answering your questions.

1232
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 9: We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us. See

1233
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 9: you next time.

1234
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: For more science and curiosity. Come find us on social

1235
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1236
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1237
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1238
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