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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I want to tell you

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Speaker 1: a story about a town in Kentucky, a beautiful, close

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Speaker 1: knit town where some truly horrible things have happened. I

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Speaker 1: know everybody, so it's hard to also to think that

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Speaker 1: somebody here in my town would do such a thing.

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Speaker 1: A police officer with a wife and two young sons,

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Speaker 1: a teacher and her teenage daughter, a thirty five year

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Speaker 1: old mother, and eighteen months later, her father. Four of

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Speaker 1: them murdered, one of them missing, considered dead. All of

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Speaker 1: the cases are unsolved. It makes me fearful to even

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Speaker 1: speak of it. So that kind of gives you a

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Speaker 1: little insight. We'll tell you about those victims and not

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Speaker 1: only how they died, but how they lived, and delve

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Speaker 1: into the lives turned upside down by these horrific crimes.

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Speaker 1: Growing up here and dealing with everything that's going on now.

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Speaker 1: It's like Bardstown, the quote most beautiful small town in America?

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Speaker 1: Does it hold a deadly secret? Well, A brand new

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Speaker 1: podcast is tackling five unsolved murders surrounding this small and

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Speaker 1: quaint Kentucky town. I mayn't see, Grace. This is Crime Stories,

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Speaker 1: and I've got two very special guests. I want to

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Speaker 1: introduce to you Jessica Nole, my longtime friend, investigative journalist

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Speaker 1: and now podcast producer with Vault Studios, who has created

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Speaker 1: the Bardstown Podcast with her. Shaye McAlister, investigative reporter with

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Speaker 1: wh AS in Louisville. Welcome ladies, Jessica Nol. Let's start

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Speaker 1: with you. Jessica, how did we actually meet? I've known

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Speaker 1: about you for years and years, but how did we

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Speaker 1: actually meet? I think the first time that we met

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Speaker 1: was when Paige Johnson disappeared from Northern Kentucky and I

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Speaker 1: was covering that story back in I think two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, and I came on your show and talked

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Speaker 1: which show which shown? Yeah? Yeah? Oh? Was I mean

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Speaker 1: to you? Did I cut you off and try to

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Speaker 1: argue with you? I hope you scared me a little.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy. I'm so happy. I hope I made

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Speaker 1: you t just a tiny bit. Now wait a minute, now,

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Speaker 1: I remember that very very well. I can't imagine what

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Speaker 1: I could have argued with you about, but that you know,

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Speaker 1: whenever I didn't disagree with someone, the rating is just

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Speaker 1: with me. So whatever you said, I'm sure I disagreed

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Speaker 1: I remember your reporting on that was was excellent. Jessica Nole. Now, Jessica,

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Speaker 1: how did you come up with the idea for the

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Speaker 1: Bardstown podcast? And that is bard b as in brother

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Speaker 1: aar d dog s t own as in the bard

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Speaker 1: as in Shakespeare Bardstown podcast dot com? How did you

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Speaker 1: come up with the idea? Actually, I didn't come up

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Speaker 1: with the idea. This was a pitch from shoo stop

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Speaker 1: right there. You obviously haven't been in the media business

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Speaker 1: for very long because everybody takes credit for everything, but

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Speaker 1: whether it's theirs or not. I've learned that the hard way.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, the ideas I've pitched and it's like eh.

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Speaker 1: And then like two months later we announced. I'm like what,

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Speaker 1: So I'm actually hearing someone truthful and Jackie Dave can

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Speaker 1: you believe this? She's actually saying it was somebody else's idea.

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Speaker 1: I am so happy. I've got so many people that

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Speaker 1: I credit with. Well, the Nancy Gray Show, let's just

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Speaker 1: start right there, because Jessica, you remember being on h

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Speaker 1: l N. I don't know if you could hear all

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Speaker 1: the commotion in the control room in New York, but

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Speaker 1: there would be twenty people in the control room, including

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Speaker 1: my beloved executive producer Dean Zuccoli. So, I mean it

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Speaker 1: takes a lot of people to pull a show like

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Speaker 1: that off. And here Jackie, Dave Wilson, Lee Egan, Ellen Colorne.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's no single person in my mind can

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Speaker 1: really build a successful program. And I hate to use

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Speaker 1: the worn out words it takes a village, but it

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Speaker 1: really does. I got a hand it to you, Jessica

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Speaker 1: forgiving Shay the credit. Let's go to Sha McCallister, investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter with wh a s in a Louisville Shay. Let

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Speaker 1: me just start off with getting something straight. How many

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Speaker 1: people mispronounced Louisville mostly everyone. I cannot believe you nailed

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Speaker 1: it right on the first try. That never happened. You're

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Speaker 1: not kidding, Shane McCallister. And I'll tell you the only

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Speaker 1: reason I know how to say it correctly at the

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Speaker 1: get go. When I first got out of law school,

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Speaker 1: I took a job. It is the only legal job

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Speaker 1: I did not like in any capacity, because I weren't

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Speaker 1: for a judge who was just let me say a

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Speaker 1: big horse's ass. I mean, there's really no way around.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, he was the worst, and he also

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Speaker 1: smoked in the office. I just want to put that

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Speaker 1: out there in the federal courthouse, I might add, well, anyway,

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Speaker 1: why are you laughing, Jackie? He was, I mean the worst.

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Speaker 1: Every day, give me some coffee. I mean, at least

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Speaker 1: be nice about ordering your female clerk aunt. Anyway, that's

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Speaker 1: a whole No other cannonors. But another intern who I adored,

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Speaker 1: Lisa Horde maidename Lisa English, was from Louisville. And she

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Speaker 1: didn't tell me how to say it. I heard her

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Speaker 1: say it, and that's how I know how to say it,

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Speaker 1: because everybody else says Louisville like Louisville slugger White, it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a Louisville slugger. Oh my goodness, now

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Speaker 1: my heads all messed up, Shay, how did you come

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Speaker 1: up with this idea? Well, I've covered these cases here

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Speaker 1: in Louisville for the last four years since I moved

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Speaker 1: here and started working as a reporter. And when our

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Speaker 1: parent company and the company that Jessica works for, a

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Speaker 1: AULT Studios, asked for pitches, asking for what's going to

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Speaker 1: be a good story, what's going to be our next

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Speaker 1: big podcast? I thought this one was perfect for it.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to believe it really is. Guys with me

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Speaker 1: Shay McAlister, investigative reporter with wh A s N Louisville

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Speaker 1: and no it is not Louisville. Okay, that makes the

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Speaker 1: residence of Louisville just cringe. Also with me Jessica Nole,

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Speaker 1: investigative journalists, my longtime friend and now podcast producer with

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Speaker 1: Vault Studios. The name of the podcast Bardstown Podcast. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to this, Okay, now is scary warning. He

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Speaker 1: sees something in the middle of the road. There are

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Speaker 1: freshly cut and purposely placed tree limbs in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the exit ramp. He pulls his cruiser across the

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Speaker 1: ramp to block any oncoming traffic, puts on his flashing lights,

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Speaker 1: and steps out of his cruiser to remove the debris.

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Speaker 1: But someone is hiding among the lavender spring flowers just

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Speaker 1: off the slanted pavement. When Jason bends down to grab

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Speaker 1: an armful of branches, he's ambushed. Booming twelve gage shotgun

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Speaker 1: blasts ring out. He's struck in his kevlar vest and

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Speaker 1: under his arm. More shots penetrate the darkness and the officer.

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Speaker 1: He's sprayed with pellets striking his right upper arm, forearm,

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Speaker 1: and right elbow. More plow into his scalp, his forehead,

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Speaker 1: his temple, and his right jaw. He doesn't have time

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Speaker 1: to react or to grab his gun from his holster.

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Speaker 1: His body collapses to the pavement and the tree limbs

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Speaker 1: fall onto his legs. Blood seeps onto the asphalt below him,

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Speaker 1: leaving a trail of red. Hello. Hello, oh my stars,

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Speaker 1: you just scare the crap out of me. Now, of

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Speaker 1: course we're not allowed to say crap in our home,

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Speaker 1: but for you shay McAllister and Jessica Nole, I will

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Speaker 1: just let it go. Wow. In that one segment, you

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Speaker 1: have capsualized what this is all about. For those of

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Speaker 1: you just joining us. It's a brand new podcast called

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Speaker 1: Bardstown Podcast b as in brother a r d st

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Speaker 1: Own as in Shakespeare The Bard. It is a ten

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Speaker 1: episode series and it describes Bardstown, the quote most beautiful

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Speaker 1: small town in America. It's in the heart of Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: a tight knit community, but doesn't harbor a deadly secret.

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Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace, he frantically grabs the officers

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Speaker 1: radio on his uniform. Out of breath, he calls over

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Speaker 1: to dispatch. I'll come home from all And there was

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Speaker 1: the police already sitting in the middle road with a

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Speaker 1: life on and we didn't know what it was as

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Speaker 1: a career across the road and I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: it was. And I got out. I know what I

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Speaker 1: fur look good at deal. I believe from a pity Okay,

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Speaker 1: can you tell if he's breathing. He is breathing. Lot

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Speaker 1: of damagery is cold. I'm thinking about the setus of

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Speaker 1: the officers. He consciousness. I'm believe you. There soon a

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Speaker 1: flood of blue lights light up the night sky, dancing

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Speaker 1: off of treetops and illuminating the horror. Jason's fellow officers

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Speaker 1: are about to drive up to one by one as

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Speaker 1: they received the call from dispatch to exit thirty four.

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Speaker 1: Than it's far too how a fifty five they're potful

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Speaker 1: office down an officer and rude or what kind of

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Speaker 1: run or where we're going on? We're not sure. We

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Speaker 1: have officers responding from Marktown. We had on the officers radio.

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Speaker 1: We're not sure what's going on. You are hearing just

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Speaker 1: a tiny bit of the Bardstown podcast about a small

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Speaker 1: Kentucky town that apparently harbors a nefarious, sinister and deadly secret.

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Speaker 1: To Jessica Nol, investigative Journalists podcast producer with Vault Studios,

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Speaker 1: explained to me how these five murders are interconnected or

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Speaker 1: are they? I mean, we're starting off, apparently with the

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Speaker 1: Officer of the Year, Jason Ellis, on his way home

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Speaker 1: from his shift. So how are the other four murders

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Speaker 1: in your mind, Jessica, without giving away your ten episode

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Speaker 1: series finale, do you think they're connected? Well, starting with

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Speaker 1: Jason's keys, you know, I covered that extensively back in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen when it happened, and then and I covered

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Speaker 1: it for Cincinnati because that's where he was from. And

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Speaker 1: then year after year, these other horrific tragedies, you say,

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Speaker 1: year after year. I know, the Bradstown police officer Jason

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Speaker 1: Ellis was ambushed and killed on his way home just

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Speaker 1: after signing off for the night. Seemed like someone was

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Speaker 1: lying in wait for him near I believe it was

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Speaker 1: X at thirty four and it was around two o'clock

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Speaker 1: in the morning. That's not just coincidence. Now, shooting at

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Speaker 1: two am, yeah, I get. I would get one of

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Speaker 1: those every Saturday night in Inner city Atlanta, but in

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Speaker 1: this location at two am out on an exit on

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Speaker 1: the highway that is planned. Now the next murder is

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Speaker 1: I recall was about a year later, seemingly unconnected. A

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Speaker 1: mother and her daughter. What happened there? So Kathy and

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Speaker 1: Samantha Netherland, her daughter, Samantha was sixteen years old. They

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Speaker 1: didn't show up for school. Samantha didn't show up for

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Speaker 1: she was a high school student. She didn't show up.

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Speaker 1: And her mom, Kathy, was a special education teacher at

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Speaker 1: the elementary school, and she didn't shop for work. So

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Speaker 1: the mother is a specially a teacher. She doesn't show up.

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Speaker 1: And you're telling me the daughter Samantha didn't show up

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Speaker 1: for school? Was Samantha? Did she go to that school

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Speaker 1: or a different school? Samantha went to the high school

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Speaker 1: and her mom worked at the elementary school. Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: You know, if these are interconnected, to solve one solves

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Speaker 1: them all. So let's circle back for a moment. Let's

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Speaker 1: circle back. Take a listen to this. Richard Caldwell grew

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Speaker 1: up visiting his grandparents in Bardstown. Today, he describes himself

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Speaker 1: as a citizen journalist. The Jason Ellis murderer really slammed

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Speaker 1: on the brakes for a lot of people. It made

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Speaker 1: people locally and beyond stop and really pay attention. And

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Speaker 1: I think evincith happened since then just add to that.

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Speaker 1: In his blog and now with us, he shares his

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Speaker 1: thoughts on what he believes happened to the Bartstown police officer. Well,

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Speaker 1: the hot gossip at the time was that a local

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Speaker 1: gang called the BMGs or the Big Money Gang they're

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Speaker 1: big on drug trafficking, that they had some sort of

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Speaker 1: involvement in it. And I have cousins who consider themselves

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Speaker 1: parts of the BMG And from everything I've gathered, I

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Speaker 1: think there are a bunch of kids that watch entirely

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Speaker 1: too much television. I don't think that they would have

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Speaker 1: the brains or the resources to execute the execution of

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Speaker 1: a law enforcement officer. I mean, just considering the planning

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Speaker 1: that had to go into it, I think it's an

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Speaker 1: easy cop out to try to pin it on, you know,

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Speaker 1: some gang banger wannabes. The angle was funny enough that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just some random idiot with a gun, and

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Speaker 1: it probably wasn't even a hobbyist hunter. It was someone

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Speaker 1: who knew how to use a long range assault rifle.

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of veterans here, but there's also

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Speaker 1: the law enforcement community itself. Oh my goodness, those last

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Speaker 1: few words open up a real Pandora's box, a real

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Speaker 1: can of worms as to who the killer may be.

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Speaker 1: You were just hearing Richard Cardwell, a quote citizen journalist

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Speaker 1: who is going through some of the theories about the

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Speaker 1: original murder or at least we think it was the

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Speaker 1: first one of the Officer of the Year Jason Ellis

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Speaker 1: on his way home to Jessica Nole the Star along

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Speaker 1: with Shae McAllister of Bardstown Podcast. Jessica, what were some

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Speaker 1: of the theories at the get go when the officer

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Speaker 1: Jason Ellis was gunned down and that was no accident

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Speaker 1: and that was not a fly by the night or

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Speaker 1: some quote kids that have been watching too many video

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Speaker 1: games or playing Call of Duty. Because I got to

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Speaker 1: tell you something, Jessica, and I'm not happy about it.

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Speaker 1: You know how I feel about gun violence. I'm a

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Speaker 1: gun violence victim. For Pete say, we do not have

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Speaker 1: guns in the home. We didn't even say the word.

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Speaker 1: We spelled gu in. When the children were growing up,

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Speaker 1: they did not play with toy guns. Long story short,

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Speaker 1: I take my twins to Scout camp. I volunteer. I

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Speaker 1: live in a tent that leaked for a week out

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Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere. It was beautiful, but let

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Speaker 1: me just say rustic. I shared a tent with about

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Speaker 1: twenty five granded long legs and my son. One of

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Speaker 1: the things they did one of their classes was gum

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Speaker 1: and ship. I didn't like it, but I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: if I throw some kind of a fit, he'll want

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Speaker 1: it even more what it required. One day, I locked

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Speaker 1: thirty three thousand steps on my fittbed that my children

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Speaker 1: gave me for Mother's Day hint, hint, mom, and going

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Speaker 1: back and forth so I could keep an eye on him.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it was a Scout activity, and they had

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Speaker 1: it totally well done, orderly, as safe as you can

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Speaker 1: possibly be. Not only did he get his quarter a

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Speaker 1: quarters when you fire at fifty feet and you get

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Speaker 1: five consecutive shots in the space of a quarter the

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Speaker 1: coin he was, and you have to do it five

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Speaker 1: times five quarters. Not only that, Jessica, I hope you're

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Speaker 1: sitting down. He got his dime, which is ten shots

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Speaker 1: at fifty feet in the space of a dime. Oh

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Speaker 1: my stars. Okay, when I was watching that and I

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Speaker 1: had to train in ballistics to be an assistant DA.

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Speaker 1: We had the power to carry a weapon, which I

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Speaker 1: did not. But shooting a high power to assault rifle

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Speaker 1: at that distance to gun down Ellis. That was not

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Speaker 1: some kid that's been playing fortnight. I'm beating around the bush.

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Speaker 1: But Jessica, what were some of the theories as to

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Speaker 1: who gunned down executed the officer? That was only a methodical,

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Speaker 1: well laid out plan. They were waiting for him. It's

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Speaker 1: believed that he was the target. They knew when he

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Speaker 1: was coming, and we've driven I've driven several times to

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Speaker 1: that exit off the Bluegrass Parkway at the time that

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Speaker 1: he was ambushed at two am, and it is desolate,

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Speaker 1: It is quiet and dark, and there's no one on

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Speaker 1: the roads. So they knew that he was coming at

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Speaker 1: that time and early on, a lot of the theories

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Speaker 1: that came out were this Bardstown money gang, or it

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Speaker 1: had to do with drugs, or you know, was it

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Speaker 1: someone in the in the police force that had a

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Speaker 1: grudge against him. So there was a lot of floating

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Speaker 1: theories that they the cartel brought someone in to take

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Speaker 1: care of him because he was a canine officer. He

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Speaker 1: was the only canine officer at that time, so he

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Speaker 1: was in charge of getting drugs off the street. But

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Speaker 1: you know, we talked to his former chief, Rick mccoben,

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Speaker 1: and according to him, you know, Jason was a very

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Speaker 1: tiny fish in this pond, and he doesn't believe that

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Speaker 1: that it was the cartel or someone coming in to

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Speaker 1: take him out. And they have looked at all the

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Speaker 1: arrests he made and looked at people he arrested and

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Speaker 1: anything to do with drugs, and so there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of theories, a lot of tips and leads that

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Speaker 1: came in. Initially, when I asked Chief mccoven about the

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Speaker 1: Bardstown money gang, because that was a huge theory at

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Speaker 1: the very beginning of all this, he dismissed it immediately.

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Speaker 1: You know, he says they are a small time street

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Speaker 1: thug gang. You know, they're they're not equipped or as

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Speaker 1: he says, smart enough to pull something this methodical off

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace to look at this town,

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Speaker 1: this small Kentucky town, a tight knit community in the

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Speaker 1: heart of Kentucky. It's been called the quote most beautiful

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Speaker 1: small town in America, but are a series our murders connected.

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Speaker 1: Shane McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville, and Jessica Noel,

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Speaker 1: investigative journalist and podcast producer with Vault Studios, have come

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Speaker 1: together to create Bardstown Podcast. You can find it at

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Speaker 1: Bardstown podcast dot com. To Shay McAllister, we just heard

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Speaker 1: from Jessica Knowle and she said that when the chief

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Speaker 1: of police was asked about the Bardstown money Gang, he

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Speaker 1: said something to the effect, well, they're too stupid to

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Speaker 1: pull this off. You know, criminals a lot of times

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Speaker 1: are stupid and they get lucky. But when you've got

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Speaker 1: a series, for instance, here multiple murders seemingly unconnected, that's

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Speaker 1: not stupid in my book. Yeah. So there in these cases,

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Speaker 1: these four different cases, two of them we can say

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Speaker 1: are likely connected because it is a father who had

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Speaker 1: been searching for his missing daughter. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: say that all of them might be connected, but there's

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Speaker 1: never been any ties really put out there like that.

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Speaker 1: Investigators have never confirmed that. It's just conspiracies like Richard

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Speaker 1: Caldwell who try to piece them all together. And that's

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Speaker 1: where we get those ties. Now, let me understand something.

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Speaker 1: This beautiful young mom, Crystal Rogers, a case that I've

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Speaker 1: been working on. Is she part of this and the

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Speaker 1: Barnstown murders. She is? She was the third case in

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Speaker 1: these string of murders. Wow. Hers of course is a disappearance,

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Speaker 1: but police consider her to be dead. Okay, can I

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Speaker 1: just needs flash she's dead. Crystal Rogers would never have

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Speaker 1: left her family. It's just completely unlike her. She's dead.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Jessica Nole, you've been with me on

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Speaker 1: HLN many many times, and I don't like if I

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Speaker 1: had had the victim's family on right now, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have said that the way I just did, because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to hurt their feelings. I mean, they've got

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Speaker 1: to know that it's a possibility in the back of

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Speaker 1: their mind, a very strong possibility. But it never feels

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Speaker 1: good to victim's family to say they're dead. Never many times,

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Speaker 1: even after they're buried. You don't want to put like that.

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Speaker 1: It's very upsetting to crime victims families. So it's my belief,

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Speaker 1: Jessica Nole, that you, Jessica and Sha McAllister, because of

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Speaker 1: your Bardstown podcast, may have brought effect brought about change.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it true that that a new investigator was named

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Speaker 1: on the Crystal Rogers case. Yes, a new investigator has

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Speaker 1: been named for Nelson County Sheriff's office. Who is the

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Speaker 1: agency investigating the Crystal Rodgers disappearance? That was announced earlier

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Speaker 1: this week. But when we talked to the Nelson County Sheriff,

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Speaker 1: he did let us know that he has brought on

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Speaker 1: what he calls an a team to investigate not just

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Speaker 1: her disappearance, but what they're considering her murder. A new

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Speaker 1: lead detective has been named the disappearance of a beautiful

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Speaker 1: young mom, Crystal Rogers. The Nelson County Sheriff's Office announced

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Speaker 1: that Chief Deputy Jody Gilliland will be the new lead

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Speaker 1: detective in solving what happened to Crystal Rogers. Tell me

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Speaker 1: a little bit, Jessica Noll about the disappearance of Crystal Rogers. So,

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Speaker 1: Crystal Rogers disappeared the fourth of July weekend in twenty ten.

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Speaker 1: The last person that she was with was her boyfriend

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Speaker 1: and father, her fifth child, Brooks Howk. According to him,

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Speaker 1: they went and fed cows on his mother's farm and

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Speaker 1: then they went back home. She was on her phone

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Speaker 1: on the couch, you know, and he goes to bed,

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Speaker 1: and he wakes up the next morning, she's not there.

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Speaker 1: He says he's not concerned because she does quote this

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Speaker 1: all the time. Whatever that means disappears, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but that's what he tells police. And meanwhile, her family

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Speaker 1: starts to get frantic because they can't find her. They

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Speaker 1: can't she's not answering her phone. Well, not just a moment.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about, guys. For those of you just joining us,

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Speaker 1: a beautiful mom. Crystal Rogers, her disappearance and presumed death unsolved.

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Speaker 1: Now for four years, she seemingly vanishes without a trace,

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Speaker 1: but interesting her car, her purse, and other items are

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Speaker 1: found on the Bluegrass Parkway. She has five children. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious, if Crystal Rogers case is solved, does

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Speaker 1: that mean the other cases they are solved. I'm not

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Speaker 1: necessarily convinced her case is connected all the way back

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Speaker 1: to the officer Jason Ellis's murder or the disappearance of

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Speaker 1: the high school teacher and her teen daughter. It's hard

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Speaker 1: for me to make that connection. But not unheard of.

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Speaker 1: Shay McCallister. We've touched briefly on the murder by a

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Speaker 1: sniper shot of Officer Jason Ellis out on a highway

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Speaker 1: at two am. We've touched briefly on the disappearance of

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Speaker 1: a high school teacher and her teen daughter. Well, we

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Speaker 1: know that those two are in fact dead. We know

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Speaker 1: about Crystal Rogers. Are there any other murders covered in

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Speaker 1: the Bardstown podcast? Yes, there is, and the victim's name

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Speaker 1: is Tommy Ballard. About sixteen months after Crystal Rogers disappeared,

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Speaker 1: her father, Tommy Ballard, was shot and killed while hunting

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Speaker 1: on family property with his grandson. Was there a ballistics

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Speaker 1: matchup between the grandson's weapon and the murder of Tommy

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Speaker 1: Ballard family have told us that they don't believe the

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Speaker 1: grandson was holding a weapon at that time. He was

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Speaker 1: standing right next to Tommy when Tommy was shot. Wow. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that opens up a whole plethora of possibilities because I

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Speaker 1: find it hard to believe unless it was a shooting accident,

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Speaker 1: that the boy shot his grandfather. Very very rare, extremely rare,

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Speaker 1: almost unheard of. We've heard of parenticide, which is slang

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Speaker 1: for the murder of a parent by a child, much

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Speaker 1: less the murder of a grandparent, So I find that

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Speaker 1: very difficult to believe ballistics if the bullet was found,

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Speaker 1: unless there's an entry in an exit, and the bullet

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Speaker 1: was never found, should be able to be matched up

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Speaker 1: to a weapon the grandson may have had or clear him.

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Speaker 1: You're telling me the grandson likely didn't even have a

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Speaker 1: weapon in his hands. He was just along with grandpa. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's quite the coincidence, is it not, Shaye McAllister, For

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Speaker 1: Crystal Rogers to go missing, and then just shortly after that,

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Speaker 1: her father, who was leading the charge and finding her,

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Speaker 1: ends up dead in an unsolved shooting out in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the woods, and all this is around Bardstown. Shay. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what his wife and Crystal's mom

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Speaker 1: told me hours after he was killed. She sent me

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Speaker 1: a text that said, and Shay, this was no accident.

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Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace. I think the fact that

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Speaker 1: Ellis was the newest police member, I think he might

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Speaker 1: have unintentionally been making his fellow officers look a little bad.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it was a Serpico thing, you know, where he

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Speaker 1: was starting to realize that some of his fellow officers

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Speaker 1: might not have been on the up and narrow and

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Speaker 1: maybe they saw him as a potential threat, but I

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Speaker 1: think there's more evidence to support that than to support

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Speaker 1: that it was just a bunch of you know, dropout junkies,

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Speaker 1: you know who pulled the trigger. The fact that it

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Speaker 1: was some an experienced sharpshooter who had to have pulled

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Speaker 1: it off, and I mean, that's not my opinion. That

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Speaker 1: was the conclusion that the state investigators reached the Kentucky

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Speaker 1: State Police in their first investigation. I've heard crazier stories

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Speaker 1: that it was a Mexican hitman who flew up specially

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Speaker 1: well the day before, specifically to take out Ellis, And

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Speaker 1: I think that that's a little more far fetched. Could

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Speaker 1: it be that maybe the cops in my town aren't trustworthy?

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Speaker 1: You know? That's that's stuff that people should consider. Do

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Speaker 1: you ever fear for your safety? I would think anyone does.

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Speaker 1: And these are scary times we live in. The people

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Speaker 1: who are supposed to be answering these questions aren't. The

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Speaker 1: people who are supposed to be asking these questions within

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00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: the community aren't. So somebody has to And I want

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00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: to think that me and my meager resources if I

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00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: get wiped out, if I end up a body in

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Speaker 1: a field or something. Then there will be someone else

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00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: who will continue. You know, there will be someone else

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00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: to do it because truth justice in the American way,

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00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: it's it's that's what everyone's supposed to be living for.

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Speaker 1: You know what is happening in the small town of Bardstown, Kentucky. Well,

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00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,959
Speaker 1: I know two people trying to get to the bottom

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Speaker 1: of it. That's on the Bardstown Podcast. It's Shane McCaw,

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00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: investigative reporter with wh AS in Louisville and Jessica Nol,

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00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: investigative journalist and podcast producer with Vault Studios. You were

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00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: just hearing Richard Cardwell, a quote citizen journalist, concerned that

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00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: he may end up dead in a field. You know,

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00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: that's getting very very serious, Jessica Nol, when people are

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00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: becoming afraid to ask questions with a string of unsolved

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00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: murders in such a small town. Jessica, what are people

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00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: that live there in Bardstown saying? There? Are they not

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00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: concerned about all the unsolved murders. You'll hear this in

448
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: the podcast with some of the folks we talked to.

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00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: There's both this anger but also a fear, and the

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00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: fear is palpable. There not necessarily a fear that they're

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00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: going to get killed, but a fear in that if

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00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: whoever's doing this people person that they're getting away with it,

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00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: and what else does that mean for their town? And

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00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: in a town where literally everyone knows everyone, everyone has

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00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: a connection, is scary for them to things that they

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00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: have a killer or killers living among them. I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: this whole thing through. How many murders Shaye McAllister are

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00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: you investigating on your Bardstown podcast? We are investigating four

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00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: different cases but five victims as our main stories. But

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00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: we do talk to a few others who have had

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Speaker 1: family members murdered that don't have those cases answered. In Bardstown, Yes,

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00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: in Bardstown, good gravy. I mean that ups the body count.

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Speaker 1: You know. I want to circle back on the teacher

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Speaker 1: elementary special ed teacher and her daughter. It's in high school.

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Speaker 1: I know that the mom didn't show up to work,

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Speaker 1: the daughter didn't show up to school, but we never

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00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: complained that thought. What happened to those two to you,

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00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,239
Speaker 1: Jessica Noll. So family starts to get concerned because they

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Speaker 1: don't show up, and a family member goes out to

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00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: their house to check on them, and what they find

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00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: is a grizzly scene. They had been their throats had

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00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 1: been slashed, the daughter had had her head was beaten severely,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of reports have said that a lot

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Speaker 1: of the violence seemed to be geared towards the daughter, Samantha,

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00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: sixteen year old daughter. Just brutal, a brutal attack, and

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Speaker 1: from what we know in talking to people, these are

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00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: pillars of the community. They were volin tears. They went

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00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: to church, she was an honor student, she was getting

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00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: ready to go to prom. There was no one, according

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00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: to investigators, that they can look at and say that

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00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: this is who did it based on who they were.

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Speaker 1: And I shouldn't say they don't know who did it,

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00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: because I don't know if they know or not. But

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00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: there is there's no CD character in these people. There's

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00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: nothing that would make them a target. They were just really,

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00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: really good people that no one had a bad thing

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00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: to say about. We are talking about the Bardstown murders,

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00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: and at that moment, we were talking about the brutal

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00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: murder of a teacher entertain daughter. This tiny Kentucky town

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00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: has gone from the most beautiful small town in America

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00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: to a place where the residents feel they've got a

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00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: barricade their doors at night. Now, apparently the most brutal

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Speaker 1: killing of them all was the savage beating of a

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old high school student, Samantha Netherland. Her mother,

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00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: a special ed teacher, Kathy, was shot in Both their

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00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: throats were slashed. Now, why would you kill two unarmed women,

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Speaker 1: a teacher and her daughter. You've got Jason Ellis, Officer

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00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: of the Year, ambushed on an exit ramp. You've got

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Speaker 1: Crystal Rogers, a mother of five, presumed dead, vanishing without

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00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: a trace. You have Tommy Ballard gunned down after he

501
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: was seemingly on the trail as to the killer of

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00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: his daughter, Crystal Rogers. How is it all connected? Or

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00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: is it a small town? Is? Jackie here in the

504
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: studio says, it's almost like a horror movie where the

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00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: murders just keep happening and they're never resolved. As a

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00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: matter of fact, Shane McAllister, I just heard one of you,

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Speaker 1: either you were Jessica, state that as you investigated these

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00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: five murders, you came upon other people whose family members, relatives,

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00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: friends have been murdered in those cases are also unsolved.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct. Yes, that's correct, and it's a common threat.

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Speaker 1: You can see as you talk to people in this town.

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00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: If their own loved one has not been killed, then

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00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: they know someone who has. And that's pretty remarkable in

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00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: a town of eleven thousand. Now five years later, the

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00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: family of this Nelson County mom and her daughter are

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00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: still seeking justice. A forty eight year old mother, Kathy Netherland,

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00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: her daughter just sixteen years old, Samantha Netherland, murdred in

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00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: their own home. It's very hard for me to imagine

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00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: with a beating death, there were no forensics, with the

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00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: throat slashed, the shootings. I mean, it just very, very

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Speaker 1: difficult to imagine. In none of these cases do we

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Speaker 1: have forensics that can lead to the killer. I and

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Speaker 1: so many people are looking for answers along with Jessica

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Speaker 1: Nol investigative journalist, podcast producer, Shape McAllister, investigative reporter whas

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00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: in Louisville, and you can join the investigation at Bardstown

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00:35:54,600 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Tipline five zero two three four eight

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Speaker 1: heat h E A T. That's five zero two three

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Speaker 1: four eight four three two. Thank you for being with me.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story Signing off, goodbye friend,