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Speaker 1: It's warm outside. It's cookout season. Oh yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: know I'm ready to gear up the playlists. Oh yes,

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Speaker 1: the playlist can make or break the vibes of any cookout. Anyone.

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Speaker 1: You put the wrong song in the wrong order, it's

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Speaker 1: a rap. Remember when we made a playlist, a cookout playlist. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you gave me a little bit of smoke. People gave

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Speaker 1: me a little bit of smoke because I was adding

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Speaker 1: some contemporary rap to the plays, like TT, You've got

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Speaker 1: this all the way messed up. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: y'all don't like a little dash of.

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Speaker 2: Some As my Auntie there A said, that's where the kickback. Okay,

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Speaker 2: the to be okay for all generations.

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Speaker 1: Fair, fair, fair. Some people didn't like my playlist. I

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Speaker 1: think that that's just fine. I'm open to criticism.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a perfect time to think about the playlist

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Speaker 2: and the music you choose, and really the music all

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Speaker 2: around us. Because this month is Black Music Month, which

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Speaker 2: was formally recognized by the United States in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: nine with President Jimmy Carter. And I feel like it

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Speaker 2: took too long.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yes, I'm TT and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify.

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Speaker 3: This is Dope Labs.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science,

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Speaker 1: pop culture, and a healthy dost of friendship. It's Black

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Speaker 1: Music Month, so this week we're celebrating black music and

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Speaker 1: getting into the history, the culture, the politics, all of

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Speaker 1: it with some very special guests. We really wanted to

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Speaker 1: know more about the roots of hip hop and jazz

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Speaker 1: and how black music and artists have been at the

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Speaker 1: forefront of popular culture and what's next in music. Let's

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Speaker 1: get into the recitation. Okay, so what do we know?

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you'll hear people say black pop culture or black

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Speaker 2: culture is everywhere, and.

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Speaker 1: It's not wrong. But I think we have the level

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Speaker 1: set when we talk about black music because terms and

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Speaker 1: phrases evolve over time and their meanings do too. Black

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Speaker 1: music is not just hip hop, rap and R and B.

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Speaker 1: When we say black music, we're referencing the history of

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Speaker 1: music created, performed, and celebrated by black artists and audiences.

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Speaker 1: We also know that black music is popular absolutely. I

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Speaker 1: think we also know that black music influences other genres

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Speaker 1: of music heavily. We know that you can draw lines

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Speaker 1: from rock and roll back to it being created by

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Speaker 1: black people. We also know music can be a tool

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Speaker 1: for politics and has been. There's a rich history of that,

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Speaker 1: tracing back to instructional messaging or whether it's obvious at

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Speaker 1: first glance or at first listen or not, reflections of struggle,

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Speaker 1: a way to carry on storytelling, particularly storytelling with political themes. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I think another thing that we know is that

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Speaker 1: the hip hop rap scene used to be kind of

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Speaker 1: like a fringe genre where it was just like very

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Speaker 1: specific people. But now we see hip hop and rap

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Speaker 1: being incorporated into a lot of pop, so it's all

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Speaker 1: over the pop charts. Yeah, black culture is everywhere, like

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Speaker 1: straight up and down anyway you slice it one hundred.

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Speaker 1: So we understand all of that, and I think we

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Speaker 1: have accepted a lot of those things, the pervasive influence

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Speaker 1: of black culture in both black music and popular music,

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Speaker 1: really music all over, and it feels like that's often

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Speaker 1: taken for granted in society. But what do we want

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Speaker 1: to know specifically tit. I want to know the specific

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Speaker 1: influences that the black music of the past has on

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Speaker 1: to day's black music. Like I know it's there, we

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Speaker 1: know it's there, but I want to know in some

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Speaker 1: of the ways that might not be absolutely apparent to

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Speaker 1: all people that this is rooted in black culture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like you want the footnotes, yes, you want to

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Speaker 2: give me all the afran wants the citations, Okay. And

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Speaker 2: I'm really interested in not just the people, because sometimes

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Speaker 2: folks don't get credited, and we know how history can

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Speaker 2: be massaged, and so I'm interested in the sonic relationships

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Speaker 2: between the music we see today and earlier genres that

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Speaker 2: are still booming, like jazz and soul.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really curious about how the messaging in hip

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Speaker 1: hop has changed in recent decades.

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Speaker 2: And if we look back, we got to look forward.

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Speaker 2: What's the future of black music looking like. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: increasing popularity, which also can invite this other cousin, which

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Speaker 2: is appropriation. And we're also seeing academia take a look

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Speaker 2: at hip.

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Speaker 1: Hop and black music.

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Speaker 2: And so I think it's really interesting to to kind

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Speaker 2: of project and say what might it look like in

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Speaker 2: the next ten to twenty, maybe even fifty years.

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Speaker 1: Let's jump into the dissection. Our guests for today are

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Speaker 1: doctor Mark Anthony Neil and Ninth Wonder.

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Speaker 4: Mark Anthony Neil, James B. Duke, Distinguished Professor of African

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Speaker 4: African American Studies at Duke University. I am born and

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Speaker 4: raised from the place that we affectionately call the Bookie

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Speaker 4: Down Bronx, aka the home of hip hop.

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Speaker 5: Ninth Wonder, producer, college professor, DJ Avid, basketball junkie, and

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Speaker 5: father of a French bulldog.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Neil and Ninth Wonder are both professors and Duke

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Speaker 1: University's African and African American Studies Department. Professor Neil also

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Speaker 1: teaches classes in English and gender, sexuality and feminist studies

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Speaker 1: and has published several books on Black popular culture and

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Speaker 1: Ninth Wonder is also a rapper, record executive and producer

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Speaker 1: who worked with Mary J. Blige, Jay Z Drake, Destiny's Child,

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Speaker 1: Kendrick Lamar, J Cole, Eric Abadu, Mac Miller. The list

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Speaker 1: goes on and on and on.

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Speaker 2: So when you look across the music genres, and you

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Speaker 2: don't even really have to look that deep, it becomes

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Speaker 2: really clear that Black musical artistry and its influence spans

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Speaker 2: so many different categories of music. So we can trace

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Speaker 2: back the spirituals and folk music to blues, to rock

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Speaker 2: and roll, the jazz, and then the hip hop.

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Speaker 1: The roots of all of these.

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Speaker 2: Genres are steeped in black culture. We ask doctor Neil

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Speaker 2: to explain just how strong those roots are.

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Speaker 4: It is everywhere we talk about classical music, right, and

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Speaker 4: we think about European cats with white wigs and Beethoven,

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Speaker 4: all those kind of folks, But that's not in the

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Speaker 4: music that originated in the US. America's classical music is

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Speaker 4: Black music, and most specifically, jazz music is America's classical

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Speaker 4: art form. There's very few examples of popular music in

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Speaker 4: the US in twenty twenty two that have not been

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Speaker 4: touched by the influence of black roots music. In some aspect,

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Speaker 4: it's been the soundtrack to not only black struggle, but

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Speaker 4: American struggle. It's been the soundtrack to American patriotism, whether

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Speaker 4: or not black folks wanted that to be the case

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Speaker 4: or not. And of course it is a soundtrack to

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Speaker 4: buying and selling in America.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 4: You can't watch a McDonald's commercial or any other commercial

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Speaker 4: without some sort of reference to black musical styles in

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Speaker 4: that context.

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Speaker 1: Those are some really great points, especially about how classical

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Speaker 1: music in the United States is black music, and today's

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Speaker 1: popular music is at least influenced by black music and culture.

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Speaker 1: If it isn't that explicitly. It really is. Even what

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Speaker 1: he's saying about the McDonald's commercial that R and B

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Speaker 1: is not random behind them to night, It's really not.

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Speaker 2: And what we're doing now is thinking about music as

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Speaker 2: this soundtrack to struggle or commerce or just everyday life.

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Speaker 2: And so it makes a lot of sense that music

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Speaker 2: can serve as a historical signpost for what's going on

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Speaker 2: in the culture.

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Speaker 4: Music is a signal, a capturing of things that are

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Speaker 4: going on in the culture. Right, So if you want

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Speaker 4: to know what's happening with black people, all you have

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Speaker 4: to do is listening to the music at any given error.

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Speaker 4: If you are marching from outer space and you landed

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Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty four and you heard Curtis Mayfield and

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Speaker 4: the Impression singing keep on Pushing, or you heard Sam

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Speaker 4: Cook singing the Change is going to come, or without

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Speaker 4: knowing what was going on, you would immediately know what

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Speaker 4: was going on in that moment.

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Speaker 1: Okay, stop. Not so many ways that stories or messages

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Speaker 1: get passed down, and music is one of those. And

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Speaker 1: when you look at music, there are so many ways

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Speaker 1: within music that we pass down stories and messages. And

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Speaker 1: we're going to get into that later. In the episod.

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Speaker 2: So, but first we wanted to take a closer look

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Speaker 2: at some of the foundational elements of black music and

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Speaker 2: trace how those ideas have evolved throughout genres over time.

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Speaker 2: Before we start tracing these I think we have to

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Speaker 2: acknowledge a major part of Black music that we're not

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Speaker 2: going to talk about TT right right, and that's the influence.

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Speaker 1: Of the Negro spiritual.

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Speaker 2: So when we think about musical devices, particularly African musical

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Speaker 2: devices that are part of Black American or African American culture,

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Speaker 2: So rhythms, melodies, and beats, that's what people who were

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Speaker 2: stolen from Africa, that's what they had. They kept what

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Speaker 2: they could of their culture, and we see that in

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Speaker 2: the music. And we definitely see that in like Negro

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Speaker 2: spirituals and that influence work songs, you know, the songs

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Speaker 2: people saying while they were working in fields and doing

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Speaker 2: this really hard labor. Gospel music and also in blues

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Speaker 2: and those things influenced jazz. I'm interested in that concept

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Speaker 2: of barring, remixing, sampling, referencing, and reframing that is integral

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Speaker 2: and intentional to Black music.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that feels like the first brick of building the

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Speaker 1: house of hip hop, Doctor Neil breaks it down.

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Speaker 4: So whenever you hear black music, you're hearing musicians very

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Speaker 4: consciously sampling and drawing from traditions that came before them.

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Speaker 4: If you're listening to Bebop in the nineteen forties, it's

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Speaker 4: a Childiebird Parker pulling a tune from Tin Pan Alley

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Speaker 4: and doing a little improvisation. Most of what we know

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Speaker 4: as hip hop is sample based hip hop, drawing specifically

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Speaker 4: from existing recorded music, and at least in the early

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Speaker 4: days of hip hop, that was specifically these things that

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Speaker 4: we call breakbeats, these kind of highly rhythmic parts, James

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Speaker 4: Brown probably being the most notable example of that tradition

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Speaker 4: and being able to extend them in a loop. At

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Speaker 4: the time, it was a DJ right who was doing

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Speaker 4: the loop. These days, obviously it's all kind of tech

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Speaker 4: machines and samplers.

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Speaker 1: Set up, thanks set up. It makes a lot of

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Speaker 1: sense that funk and soul has a huge impact on

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Speaker 1: hip hop. A lot of the elements from funk and

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Speaker 1: soul show up in hip hop. James Brown, aka the

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Speaker 1: Godfather of Soul, is the most sample artist of all time.

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Speaker 1: And then the drum break improvised by Clyde Stubblefield, who

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Speaker 1: often worked with James Brown, and he's on James Brown

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Speaker 1: song Funky Drummer is one of the most sampled songs

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Speaker 1: in hip hop. The name of those tunes up on Drama,

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Speaker 1: imp on your drama. It's such a connected web.

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Speaker 2: Once you start looking at how many times somebody has

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Speaker 2: been sampled, you know you have to ask her.

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Speaker 1: Are you talking about just sampling the beat?

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Speaker 2: Are you talking about sampling the lyrics and quoting those right?

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Speaker 2: Are you talking about, you know, covering somebody song exactly?

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Speaker 2: And when it comes to James Brown, all of the above,

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Speaker 2: you know all of the above. And the really big

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Speaker 2: thing to note is that if he's a most sampled artist,

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Speaker 2: that the second most sampled artist.

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Speaker 1: The group is not even close, not even half of

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Speaker 1: the amount of times that he's been sampled.

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Speaker 4: Basically, what we hear now is often a refabrication of

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Speaker 4: sounds and sites and things that we heard before. Everybody

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Speaker 4: lost their mind listening to Silk Sonic some new song

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, well, you know that's a love train, right.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, well, I've been listening to the original love

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Speaker 4: Train right for forty years by Confunction, So everything that's

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Speaker 4: new is not new.

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Speaker 1: Got a listen. Confunction did it first.

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Speaker 2: And I love Bruno and Anderson aka djp Wee a lot,

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Speaker 2: but it's hard to fight confunction. Confunction ran so that

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Speaker 2: they could hobble behind them. So you know, we can

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Speaker 2: trace the connection between soul, funk, and R and B

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Speaker 2: to hip hop. But there's also this connection between jazz

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Speaker 2: and hip hop. Two ninth Wonder, along with a musicians

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Speaker 2: Robert Glasper, Ters Martin and Kamasi Washington, released an album

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Speaker 2: recently called Dinner Party. And this is an album that

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Speaker 2: really shows explicit connection between jazz and hip hop, But

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Speaker 2: what about some of those earlier influences where we see

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Speaker 2: some of that same borrowing from jazz.

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Speaker 5: One of the reasons why myself, Kamasi, Robert Glasper and

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Speaker 5: Tares Martin did Dinner Party was to show that kind

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Speaker 5: of bridge it's always been there because you got some

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Speaker 5: jazz cats that don't really job with hip hop like that,

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Speaker 5: but you have some new age hip hoppers that know

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Speaker 5: nothing about jazz, and we were trying to show in

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Speaker 5: a section of the two.

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Speaker 1: So there's the sampling of music, but then there's also

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Speaker 1: musical influence on lyrical delivery.

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Speaker 5: When the idea of rap flow started to change, like

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Speaker 5: in the early eighties, you know, the Curtis Blows and

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Speaker 5: the Houdini's and all of them had the same type

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Speaker 5: of you know rap flow, Prince Twish and Braks to

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Speaker 5: but when Rock Kim came along, he made the distinct

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Speaker 5: relation to I get a lot of my flows from

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Speaker 5: John Coltrane, how he plays the sax, and also the

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Speaker 5: notorious Big said, I listened to Max Roach. There was

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Speaker 5: a older gentleman in his neighborhood who played him Max

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Speaker 5: Roach records, and he learned different syncopations and different rhythms

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Speaker 5: with his voice.

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Speaker 1: Max Roach was a drummer and composer, and he's known

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Speaker 1: as a pioneer of bebop and one of the most

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Speaker 1: important drummers of all time.

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Speaker 2: You know, like doctor Neil said, Rock Kim kind of

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Speaker 2: changed things. We went from Curtis Blow with these are

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Speaker 2: the breaks, You're like, what felt like kind of stiff rapping,

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Speaker 2: and then we went to kind of floey rapping with

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Speaker 2: Rock Kim and someone who's even more recent, who really

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Speaker 2: should be credited if he hasn't been enough for his

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Speaker 2: ability to kind of change the course of hip hop

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Speaker 2: is q.

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Speaker 1: Tip ram truck, what as sea bull point something with

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Speaker 1: a gold rode ain't nothing the r I'm the hood

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Speaker 1: with it. Ninth highlights q Tip, who is a solo

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Speaker 1: artist and also a member of a tricoll Quest.

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Speaker 6: I teach you hip Hop production class and one of

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Speaker 6: the guests we had on Zoom one day was q Tip.

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Speaker 1: From a trib Call quest A trib Call Quest. It

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Speaker 1: sound and the musical contributions of the individual members had

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Speaker 1: a huge fingerprint on music transitioning in the late eighties

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Speaker 1: to nineties.

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Speaker 6: I wanted to know.

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Speaker 5: Why in the late eighties hip hop shifted from a

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Speaker 5: lot of soul sampling a lot of James Brown, James Brown,

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Speaker 5: James Brown, to Les McCann and Roy ayres right and

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Speaker 5: q Tip is like the genesis of that, q Tip said,

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Speaker 5: man I grew up in a neighborhood around Weldon Irvine,

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Speaker 5: and I'm like, what, like what is that?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 5: Weldon Irvine and a lot of jazz cast that he

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Speaker 5: grew up around influenced the sound that change of generation.

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Speaker 2: Weldon Irvine was a musician and artists. He's most known

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Speaker 2: for his song Morning Sunrise, which came out in nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy nine, and that sampled on Jay Z's track Dear

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Speaker 2: Summer and that came out in two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: He was a mentor to many hip hop artists in

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Speaker 1: New York as well as Nina Simone's musical director. So

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Speaker 1: you know that's big, just that.

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Speaker 6: Texture of music.

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Speaker 5: We call him top of the family tree because with

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Speaker 5: our Q tip, you don't have common most quality, badu jail,

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Speaker 5: little brother, slum village, the roots outcast, like I can

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Speaker 5: go a whole family tree of people that doesn't exist

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Speaker 5: because of Q tip. And it's all because he started

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Speaker 5: to dig into roy Airs more than he started digging

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Speaker 5: to James Brown.

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Speaker 1: And so that gives us this transition from music that

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Speaker 1: sounded off funky and chopped up like James Brown with

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Speaker 1: the funky drummer, to a much smoother sound with Roy Airs.

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Speaker 6: I say everything begins with Benita Applebum.

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Speaker 5: Benita apple Bum, like sound wise became the genesis of

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Speaker 5: every laid back hip hop song that you know.

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Speaker 6: Benita Applebum is the one.

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Speaker 5: Banina alta Appaum said to kind of put me on

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Speaker 5: Beanina Alpam, And that's a roy Airs produced group called Ramp.

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Speaker 5: It's that feel good time for euphorias. So from the

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Speaker 5: way we rhyme to the textures that we use like

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Speaker 5: jazz is it. And on top of that, jazz and

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Speaker 5: hip hop leans on one thing together and that's improvisation.

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Speaker 5: It's all about making stuff up. This is the sixties

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Speaker 5: and your cold trained the loneliest monk on stage as

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Speaker 5: the mother cast, Charlieburry Parker and that having like a

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Speaker 5: quintet session. You couldn't get up on that stage unless

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Speaker 5: you were ready to be able to hang with that

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Speaker 5: particular jam session. It's the same thing with them seeing

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Speaker 5: if you you see Black Thought, Royster five nine, Rhapsody Nas,

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Speaker 5: some of the greatest worstments of our time on stage

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Speaker 5: in a cipher. If you want to call yourself an

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Speaker 5: MC and get your chops up, you better be ready

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Speaker 5: to get on stage and get in the cipher and

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Speaker 5: don't break the cipher.

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Speaker 6: But definitely hip.

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Speaker 5: Hop bars a lot from jazz with that kind of

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Speaker 5: like vetting system of guards. System is like a badger

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Speaker 5: honor almost you can't be called one of us unless

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Speaker 5: you do this.

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Speaker 1: So now we're talking about hip hop borrowing from jazz

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Speaker 1: in both musical sampling and in the delivery of rap

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Speaker 1: flow lyrical flow. And then also we're talking about hip

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Speaker 1: hop borrowing from jazz in the process of kind of

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Speaker 1: like this writes a passage about who gets to be

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Speaker 1: called it, who gets to be called a jazz musician,

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Speaker 1: who gets to be called a hip hop artist. It

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Speaker 1: feels really heavily layered. Hip hop is Black music, and

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Speaker 1: it's also some of the most popular music in our culture.

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Speaker 1: Like we said earlier, black music is American music, just

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Speaker 1: like black culture is American culture. I think we're seeing

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Speaker 1: that more and more today with the growing influence of

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Speaker 1: hip hop on popular culture.

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Speaker 5: Hip hop has now become scared for a lot of

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Speaker 5: people to say, but if hip hop is not Americana,

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Speaker 5: especially because of the consumption of streams and the music business,

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Speaker 5: but also by the fashion, by the talk, by the slang.

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Speaker 5: More and more each day I see other racists saying

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Speaker 5: things that we made up in the street is everywhere,

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Speaker 5: will continue to be everywhere. People are already fascinated with

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Speaker 5: black bodies anyway, they're definitely fascinated with black rappers still

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Speaker 5: to this day that so many older white men they

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Speaker 5: are fascinated that if they know a young black rapper

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Speaker 5: like it puts them in a different space. The thing

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Speaker 5: I see a lot of people say is street crib.

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Speaker 5: It's always been a part of America and it's going

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Speaker 5: to continue to grow when more enlightened people get older,

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Speaker 5: especially young white Americans that like the Jimmy Fallers of

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Speaker 5: the world, and who has the roots as there Tonight's

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Speaker 5: show bands right, all the casts on Sports Center who

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Speaker 5: didn't grow up listening to Johnny Cash or grew up

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Speaker 5: listening to nas I mean, what do we.

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Speaker 3: Do with that.

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Speaker 1: It's not even just older white men's America. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: in general. It's like, hey, I know this thing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we see it all over social media where folks are

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Speaker 1: using African American English and not using it correctly a

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Speaker 1: lot of the time, and they feel like it's a

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Speaker 1: way to give themselves streetcred, like just to make themselves cooler.

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Speaker 1: But what they're trying to do is get as close

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Speaker 1: to black as as they can without being black.

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Speaker 5: I knew things were really changing when it was the

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Speaker 5: Oscars I think of last year, and it was Glenn Close.

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Speaker 5: They asked her about DC Go Go and she started

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Speaker 5: talking about junk yard band and backyard band.

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Speaker 6: And rare asses, and I'm like, look at this man.

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Speaker 5: This is placed in one of the whitest spaces ever,

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Speaker 5: the Oscars, and just that type of thing shows you

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Speaker 5: that in order to be cool, in order to be creative,

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Speaker 5: in order to be on the cutting edge, you got

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Speaker 5: to know what black people are doing.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we can't talk about these things without

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Speaker 1: talking about people who have been a part of this culture,

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Speaker 1: who have listened to this music, being outcasts or excluded

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Speaker 1: from things because they identified in this way, you know,

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Speaker 1: And that kind of gets us into like the cultural

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Speaker 1: appropriation of music and the culture that goes along with

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Speaker 1: black music. It's like who gets recognized, who gets credit?

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Speaker 5: And the thing about us that we still haven't figured out,

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Speaker 5: and we're just so free with our creative property or

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Speaker 5: intellectual property that it can be taken in a moment's

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Speaker 5: notice and put somewhere else. With so giving is people

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Speaker 5: we want to share what everybody not knowing it is

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Speaker 5: being taken from us every time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in the excitement, a lot of things get shared,

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Speaker 1: and that's how we get back to that cycle of

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Speaker 1: sharing versus then who's getting credit for these things who's

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Speaker 1: creating versus who's leveraging opportunities from the creation. Even recently,

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Speaker 1: Bad Bunny he has a hit called sapphi Era, and

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Speaker 1: part of the problem was is that he used some

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Speaker 1: of the beat from Me Elliott's two thousand and one

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Speaker 1: hit get Your Free Gone. We all know, Get Your

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Speaker 1: Free Gone, and didn't credit her, and so it was

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Speaker 1: never properly cleared with Missy and her team. So it's

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Speaker 1: a really long story. We'll put more about that in

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Speaker 1: the show notes, But this is something that is still

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Speaker 1: pervasive today. Culture is political, and music has definitely been

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Speaker 1: used as a political tool to reflect on current struggles,

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Speaker 1: to call for revolution, or to even imagine different realities

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Speaker 1: like what life could be like. We asked Professor Neil

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Speaker 1: and ninth Wonder to walk us through some monumental songs

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Speaker 1: throughout history that have been signpost for what's going on

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Speaker 1: politically in history. Doctor Neil starts with Billy Holliday Billy.

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Speaker 4: Holliday nineteen thirty nine, Strange Fruit, talking about the practice

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Speaker 4: of lynching, which folks thought was coming to an end.

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Speaker 4: What clearly in twenty twenty two, you know, yesterday's mass

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Speaker 4: lynchings have become today's mass shootings.

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Speaker 1: Mass strange, true blood only.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 1: Billy Holliday was a jazz singer, and she was known

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Speaker 1: for her distinctive vocal style, which was inspired by jazz

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Speaker 1: instrumentalists like Louis Armstrong and another well known jazz singer,

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Speaker 1: Bessie Smith. Just recently we saw Billy Holliday's life and

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Speaker 1: the contributions of her music and what it meant politically

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Speaker 1: really kind of thrust into the spotlight with Audre Day

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Speaker 1: doing the film The United States Versus Billy Holliday, and

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Speaker 1: I was really surprised at just how involved the government

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Speaker 1: was in the message that Billy Holliday was delivering through

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Speaker 1: her music. I didn't know that absolutely. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was really eye opening the entire film, because when we

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Speaker 1: talk about Billie Holliday today, you know, we just talk

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Speaker 1: about the music, but the politics was such a major,

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Speaker 1: major part of it. And so what we saw with

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Speaker 1: Billy Holliday, which was basically protest through song, is something

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Speaker 1: we see throughout history in black music.

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Speaker 4: Nina Simone talking about Mississippi Goddamn, talking about you know,

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Speaker 4: anti black violence in the South, a song that she

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Speaker 4: wrote immediately after the bombing of the sixteenth Street Baptist

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Speaker 4: Church in Birmingham in nineteen sixty three.

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Speaker 1: Alabama's gotten me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest,

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Speaker 1: and everybody knows about missus damn. The sixteenth Street Baptist

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Speaker 1: Church in Birmingham had been a center or hub for

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Speaker 1: civil rights organizing, and on September fifteenth, nineteen sixty three,

437
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: the KKK members planted dynamite under the steps, and that

438
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: attack killed four girls and injured fourteen to twenty two

439
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: other people. And this happened just two weeks after the

440
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: March on Washington and Martin Luther's King's I have a

441
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: dream speech, So fast forward nineteen sixty four. Nina Simone

442
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: releases Mississippi Goddamn, and she's referencing what's happening in these states.

443
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: And I know I said in nineteen sixty four. You

444
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: may be asking, is it twenty twenty four?

445
00:24:59,440 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 4: Right?

446
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 1: Alabama has gotten me so upset. Tennessee's made me lose

447
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: my rest, and everybody knows about Mississippi. She wrote this

448
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: song immediately after the bombing, and the song is in

449
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: direct response to the attack and other white supremacist violence

450
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: targeting black people across the South, and so that includes

451
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: the assassination of Medgar Evers, who was fighting the end

452
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: segregation in public schools, securing voting rights and other rights

453
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: for black people.

454
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: Doctor Neil also mentioned Sam Cooks A Change Is Gonna Come,

455
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: which was also released in December of the same year

456
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: as Nina Simone's song.

457
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 4: Sam Cooks The Change Is Gonna Come. Right, this idea

458
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 4: that in the midst of everything that was going on,

459
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: right the death Somthaga Evers to deaths, you know, shortly

460
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 4: after that of Malcolm X, you know that folks are

461
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 4: hoping and wishing for something to change.

462
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: It's been a lot a long time coming.

463
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 6: Come.

464
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 2: There's a movie that captures the importance of Sam Cook's

465
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: A Change Is Going To Come, and it talks about

466
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: this meeting of some other black leaders, Sam Cook, Malcolm X,

467
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: Muhammad Ali, and Jim Brown.

468
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: All of them met together in February nineteen sixty four,

469
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: and Regina King recently made a movie about it called

470
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: One Night in Miami. It just shows like the struggle,

471
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: like it shows people are figuring out, like what's going

472
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: to go in my music? Do people just want to

473
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: hear feel good music? I'm torn.

474
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 2: These things are happening in my community, right, and I

475
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: think a lot of artists are facing that, like what

476
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: goes in my work versus what's for me, you know, right.

477
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: I mean we saw that shift. We talked about Beyonce

478
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: a lot, but we saw that shift with Beyonce and

479
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: her music where at a certain point in her career

480
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: she decided that she did want to become more political

481
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: with the messaging in her music. And that's when we

482
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: had you know, lemonade, Black Is King and things like that.

483
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: And I think all of this is really important, t T.

484
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: Because when we consider the turmoil, the violence against black

485
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: folks and then the protest music that we just talked about,

486
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: you know, this is the backdrop of the civil rights movement.

487
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: So we're talking about these things happening in nineteen sixty four.

488
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: And the Civil Rights Act was passed.

489
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: In July nineteen sixty four, right, And the Civil Rights Act,

490
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: the purpose of it was it outlaws discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex,

491
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: and national origins. It also prohibits unequal application of voter

492
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: registration requirements, racial segregation in schools and public accommodations, and

493
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: employment discrimination. And this was a huge landmark for legislation.

494
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: That's July nineteen sixty four.

495
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: You move a couple months later, we're at February nineteen

496
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: sixty five and Malcolm X is assassinated in the audobamb

497
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: Ballroom in New York and his death really escalated the

498
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: Black power movement. In this revolutionary movement that was really

499
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: active in the sixties and seventies and very similar to

500
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 2: the Civil Rights movement. It advocated for, you know, economic, social,

501
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: and cultural empowerment for black folks, but it differed a

502
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: little bit in the support of more militant approaches to

503
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: achieving those goals, and that was really embraced by like

504
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: the Black Panther Party organization US in the Republic of

505
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 2: New Africa.

506
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: Throughout history, black artists have always found ways to find

507
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: joy and celebrate the milestones along the way amid loss

508
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: and struggle.

509
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 4: I mean, James Brown, right, I'm black and I'm proud

510
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 4: right that this moment where folks could be fully in

511
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 4: public and black and not have to worry about them

512
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 4: being punished for expressing what they felt.

513
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 6: At the time.

514
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 4: Marvin Gaye's album What's Going On Right, the Quintessential Protests

515
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 4: album Right created as this kind of holistic suite that

516
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 4: spoke to every aspect of what we're dealing with.

517
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: There's too many of you try, you know, Marvin Gay

518
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: started out as a crooner. You know, I see the

519
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: guys on Instagram trying to wear the little red Marvin

520
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: Gay had. But by nineteen seventy one, well, he released

521
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: What's going On. We're at the height of the Vietnam War,

522
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: and you can hear him grappling with what the country

523
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: is going through and what black people are experiencing during

524
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: this time.

525
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 4: Talking about the environment, talking about an anti war movement,

526
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 4: talking about black politics, talking about poverty in the ghetto. Right,

527
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 4: he managed to get all of that into a thirty

528
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 4: five minute record.

529
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Doctor Neil also talked about how this music was so

530
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: personal to him as well as so many black kids

531
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: growing up as these records were being recorded and released.

532
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 4: The time that I came of age listening to the

533
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 4: message in nineteen eighty two Grand Master Flash and the

534
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 4: Furious Five and this detailed analysis of the hood that

535
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 4: I knew that I was growing up with, right, that

536
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 4: so many people in the world didn't know of. And

537
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 4: this was a time when everybody was calling you know,

538
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 4: when they folks thought about hip hop, all they thought

539
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 4: about or rap music, all they thought about was partying. Bullshit.

540
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 4: Grandmaster Flash and Melly Mel made a whole bunch of

541
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 4: party in Bullshit records that we'd love to this day.

542
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 4: But then they dropped this sociological jam in the Message.

543
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: Probably glass everywhere, people pissing on the stage, you know

544
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: that just don't care. I can't take the smout, I

545
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: can't take the noise. Got no money to move on?

546
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: I guess I got no charge, you know. I think

547
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: we see this with a lot of artists.

548
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: They might come out with, you know, kind of a

549
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: party song or a fun upbeat, and then they're like, Okay,

550
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 2: I have a platform, I have a voice.

551
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: There's something I want to say. So similar to what

552
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: we saw with Marvin Gaye. H you see grand Master

553
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: Flash in the Furious five shifting a little bit with

554
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: the message, that's right. In nineteen eighty two, they released

555
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: a song called The Message, and the lyrics describe poverty

556
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: in the inner city struggle, and it was one of

557
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: the first songs in hip hop that addressed those issues

558
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: head on. This political and social commentary was influential to

559
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: the growth of consciousness.

560
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: Even Run DMC, a group did we never think about

561
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 4: as being political, could drop a song like It's Like That,

562
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: which again talked about the politics of what everyday black

563
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 4: life was. And then definitely for me my generation, anything

564
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 4: that Public Dnomy touched between nineteen eighty six right to

565
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety two has to be on that list.

566
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: Yes, Ren DMC and Public Enemy were both part of

567
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: the new school of hip hop, which you know you

568
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: kind of see really growing around the mid nineteen eighties.

569
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: Public Enemy built on the foundation that was laid by

570
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: Grand Master Flash. In a Furious five talking about this

571
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: radical political ideology, doctor Neil lists additional songs and albums

572
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: that fit that same mold.

573
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 4: Rebel without a Pause, Fight the Powers, and one that

574
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 4: stands out. But that album, you know, it takes a

575
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 4: nation of millions to hold us back, and don't believe

576
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: the hyphe I mean, it just changed everything. The politics

577
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 4: were radical, the images were radical, the sounds were radical,

578
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: the sampling techniques were radical.

579
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 5: We got to fight the.

580
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 6: Fight the power.

581
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: It's really fascinating to see that radical political message was

582
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: mirrored in the sounds and musical techniques that these artists used.

583
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: Ninth Wonder also shared his experiences of coming of age

584
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: during this period of music, a time when social and

585
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: political consciousness was at the forefront of hip hop.

586
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 5: Neil is older than me, and you don't like to

587
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 5: say that, but he's older than I am. And I

588
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 5: always like to gloat and revel in the fact that

589
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 5: I was able to enjoy consciousness in hip hop at

590
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 5: the age I got a chance to enjoy it, which

591
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 5: is every kid's formidable years. It takes a nation meetings.

592
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 5: The Hold Is Back came out when I was thirteen.

593
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 5: There You Go the year before a show debut on

594
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 5: TV called A Different World. In nineteen eighty eight, Spike

595
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 5: Lee released School Days. In nineteen eighty nine, Spike re

596
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 5: released Do the Right Thing.

597
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: So what Ninth Wonder is highlighting is not just the

598
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: music but also the culture. We're talking about television now

599
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: and movies. A Different World was a classic.

600
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: Honestly, we talked about a Different World in our Black

601
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: History Month episode with X and School Days too. Different

602
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: World and School Days and about how it really showcased

603
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: aside of black culture that wasn't necessarily always showcased on television.

604
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think one of the things that I loved

605
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: about those shows is they were funny. They were giving

606
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: me this glimpse into like, oh wow, this is what

607
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: college is like. And I'm watching them years later, right

608
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: and still they feel relevant. But they're also talking about

609
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: issues like sexual assault, HIV and AIDS.

610
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: Yes, when Freddy was almost sexual assaulted and Dwyane Wade

611
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: jumped to the roof of the car to beat up

612
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: the guy, these are moments that you will never forget

613
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: and it addresses those issues head on and gives you

614
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: the tools as young people to know how to deal

615
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: with those situations. So that's like mid to late eighties,

616
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: and then we moved right at that cusp of like

617
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: eighty eight to ninety two. I would say hip hop

618
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: is doing a lot of things at that point. So

619
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: before we were talking about the East Coast, but the

620
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: West Coast is also on the map. Straight out account

621
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: It's crazy.

622
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 5: Quitudes show always say you know NNBA put our straight

623
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 5: out of Compton, Queen Latifa put out All Hell, The

624
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 5: Queen Jungle Brothers done by the Fortress of Nature, Daylight, Soul,

625
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 5: three feet High and Rising a Tribe call Quest People's

626
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 5: exinctive travels in the past of Rhythm I'm fourteen years old,

627
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 5: like I am in heaven, Like this is black black

628
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 5: black black, black, black black black black. Not only it's black,

629
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 5: but it's also Pan Africanism. Then you got Kara ris

630
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 5: One and booge Down productions. Then you have Kin saying

631
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 5: Oslama Lakam. You have Rokkim call himself rock him Ala.

632
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 5: Like now you have an intersection of Southern black Christian

633
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 5: board learning about Islam at age thirteen fourteen.

634
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 6: This was an amazing time for me and my friends.

635
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: That's wild. I mean, imagine being able to be of

636
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: the age where you can understand what's going on, you

637
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: kind of understand what's going on in the world, and

638
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: you can understand what's going on in the music and

639
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: be able to absorb those political and social messages of

640
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: the music as it was being released.

641
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: Man, you know, I can remember folks wearing like my

642
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 2: older cousins wearing those like big necklaces that had the

643
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: symbol of Africa and it was like red, black and green,

644
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 2: and it makes me think about brands like cross colors.

645
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: Even the clothes that people were wearing and things that

646
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: had the fist on them. I mean, it was just

647
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: pan Africanism was a global movement and hip hop was.

648
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: In it absolutely.

649
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: And you know, when you think about who's driving culture,

650
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: who's saying this is what's in the musicians were doing that,

651
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 2: and so it feels fitting that they have a place

652
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: right there is some of the disseminators of political messaging.

653
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: So far, we've seen hip hop evolve from something that

654
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: wasn't explicitly political to a genre that really had consciousness

655
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: at its heart. But this period of consciousness and hip

656
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,439
Speaker 1: hop didn't last forever.

657
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 5: Sometimes we like to tell the young generation that, oh,

658
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 5: we were just so political. The only problem is became

659
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 5: a hard realization for me that the high point and

660
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 5: consciousness in hip hop on a surface level, which means

661
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 5: a level that wasn't considered underground, that you can find it,

662
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 5: you didn't have to dig for it probably only lasted

663
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 5: like three or four years eighty eight to like I'll say,

664
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 5: by ninety two, because once Doctor Dre and Snoop, when

665
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 5: the chronic came, it was over.

666
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 6: Like it was who you can forget it?

667
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: One, two, three and tough Folk, Snoop, Doggie Dog and

668
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: Doctor Drake is at the dope and it not making

669
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: it trench so Bad Go No.

670
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 2: This time period that Ninth Wonder is talking about falls

671
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 2: within what many refer to as the Golden Age of

672
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: hip hop, so from the mid eighties to their early

673
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: to mid nineties. Ninth tells us that things kind of

674
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 2: changed when Bad Boy Records came on the scene. Bad

675
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: Boy was founded in nineteen ninety three by Sean P.

676
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 2: Diddy Combs Well Diddy or Puff Daddy Brother Love.

677
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: Brother Love, Sean Love Combs, Puffy. So many names, so

678
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: many names still save Puff.

679
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 5: When bad Boy came we was in the club, there

680
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 5: was still a hint of having some type of consciousness,

681
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 5: which means ten Crack Commandments is a conscious zone, right.

682
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 5: It teaches you something. It might teach you the wrong thing,

683
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 5: but it gives you some type of instruction.

684
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 6: I've been in this game. It may be your animals

685
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 6: us to rule.

686
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: Ten Crack Commandments is a track from the Notorious Big

687
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: from his album Life After Death. It was released in

688
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, and it's biggs manual on how to

689
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: succeed at dealing drugs like number one, never let them

690
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: know how much dough you hold or number six that

691
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: goddamn credit debt. It While this might not be a

692
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: deep exploration of societal issues up front, biggest talking about

693
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: the practical ways to make it in this business.

694
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 5: The hip hop at one point was instructional, whether it

695
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 5: be about Safe six with Jimmy by Boogie Down Productions

696
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 5: or the U N I T Y or I always

697
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 5: say that one of the first versions of Beyonce's Lemonade

698
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 5: and hip Hop from a Master Respectrum was looking at

699
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 5: the front door by main source like he was really,

700
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 5: you know, large professor was really going through it with

701
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,479
Speaker 5: his girl, and he was like, you treat me bad.

702
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 5: I don't think I could take it anymore. I'm looking

703
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 5: at the front door. It was political, but it was

704
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,959
Speaker 5: also instructional and informational. A lot of hip hop today

705
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 5: doesn't give you any type of instruction whatsoever.

706
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: We fight every night now that's not in that swift

707
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: plus up when we was close sung and wake up

708
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: to be rereadd.

709
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 6: But argument again.

710
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: I think we started to get into the instructions, but

711
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: they're telling you left foot stomp and shuffled. But maybe

712
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: one day we'll get back to it. Watch just watch Next.

713
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 2: Hip Hop, the Next Man some good instructions. The stallion

714
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 2: does get instrung and say put your hands on your hips.

715
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: I feel like the only thing we're missing now is

716
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: like hip hop, that's like, this is how you start

717
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 2: at LLC. Let's take a break and when we come back,

718
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: we'll talk about community and music, the culture of streaming,

719
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: and the future of hip hop and hip hop education.

720
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: We're back and we've been celebrating Black Music Month with

721
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 2: Doctor Mark, Anthony Neil and Ninth Wonder.

722
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: But before we jump back in with the two of them,

723
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: let's talk about next week's lab. And next week's lab,

724
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: we're talking all about linguistics with doctor John Bah the

725
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: history accents, dialect, slang, and code switching that's done in

726
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: the United States. All right, let's get back to the lab.

727
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: Before the break, we were talking about messaging in hip hop.

728
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: So we wanted to know what changed from the nineties

729
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: to the two thousands to the twenty tens and why

730
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: we hear less instructional messaging in hip hop. What's missing today?

731
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 4: One of the things is missing is intimacy. And I

732
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 4: don't think we can mistake intimacy for sex, because there's

733
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 4: lots of sex in the music, but not intimacy. And

734
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 4: I mean that on a bunch of levels. Ninth is

735
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 4: talked about this in class. There was a time where

736
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 4: we had to listen to music in community. There was

737
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 4: a stereo system in the house. Everybody listened to the

738
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 4: music at the same time. Your kids are in the car.

739
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 4: I mean when my daughters were young, they were trapped

740
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 4: in the car. They had the music taste that they

741
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 4: have now because I played what I played and they

742
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: had to listen now in the car, and each one

743
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 4: of them is plugged into their own listening system.

744
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: I remember as a child being just glued to the radio.

745
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: My parents, we begged them for, you know, one of

746
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: the little portable radios that you could have in your bedroom,

747
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: and me and my sisters we would just lay in

748
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: front of it and listen to it all day, especially

749
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: in the summer and on the weekends, just listening to music.

750
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: And then you know, do you remember the box? What's

751
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: the box You could call in and put in a

752
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: code and then it will play the music video. So

753
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 1: then we went from you know, waiting to hear stuff

754
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: on the radio station to watching the box and seeing

755
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: different music videos. And then MTV and BT really took off,

756
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: so then you could see all these different songs, music videos,

757
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: you have CV behind the scenes making the music video,

758
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: all these things like that. Remember when Napster first came

759
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: on the scene and then you could just get all

760
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: the music you didn't have to buy a CD. Yeah,

761
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: that changed a lot. So there's the intimacy of listening

762
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: to music with other people. But doctor Neil is also

763
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: talking about the intimacy in music itself.

764
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 4: I used to teach just Michael Jackson class, and if

765
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 4: we tend when we think about Michael Jackson and Prince,

766
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 4: we don't talk about the ballads, right, you know, And

767
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm a big ballad dude, right. So we're

768
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 4: listening to Lady in My Life, which I think is

769
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 4: Michael Jackson's best ballot, maybe Butterflies, you know, on a

770
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 4: good day. We're listening to the song, and what struck

771
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 4: me is that they had no relationship to the music.

772
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 6: Ie.

773
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 4: They didn't know what to do with it. So I

774
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 4: asked someone to give a demonstration to do a slow

775
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 4: jam or grind like what my parents used to call it.

776
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 4: And they had no idea what I'm talking about because

777
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 4: they'd never slow danced. Intimacy them and music is like

778
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 4: twerking or that's actually one of the examples that someone use.

779
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 4: But the idea of a slow, intimate dance. I'm old

780
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 4: enough to remember the sixth grade dance. You had to

781
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 4: have a distance, right, It need to be a foot

782
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 4: and a half two feet between you and the girl,

783
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 4: and as you got older, you got to close that gap.

784
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 4: But we got a bunch of young folks who never

785
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 4: experienced that, and it plays out in terms of what

786
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 4: they hear in the music, what they value in the music.

787
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: When Mark Avanil says grind, it's not the grind that

788
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 1: I think that y'all are talking about. The term grind

789
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: has evolved over time to mean something a little bit different.

790
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: But what he's talking about is just, you know, a

791
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: slow song that couples would dance to. I just think

792
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: it's really interesting how, you know, the way we consume music,

793
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: and this is such a good point, how it affects

794
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: the experience, the culture, you know, around music and music consumption.

795
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: Ninth Wonder talks about how the digital landscape of music

796
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: has affected the way we experience and discover music.

797
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 5: Now there's no community when it comes to something that

798
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 5: was created by the community. First of all, is not

799
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 5: a turn on the factor. There's no let me let

800
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 5: you hear this because you haven't heard it. It's not

801
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 5: that because whether you know it or love it or not,

802
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 5: every album in the world that comes out on streamings

803
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 5: on your phone. As opposed to being in college and

804
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 5: me walking by a room and somebody had the money

805
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 5: that we to buy this new Peak Rocket Seil Smooth

806
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 5: album that I couldn't get and I'm listening to it like, man,

807
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 5: I'm broke, but he only wanted to get it. I'm

808
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 5: gonna have to listen to it in his room until

809
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 5: I get my refund check and then go to the

810
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 5: mall and then buy it.

811
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: Sharing music is a lot easier today. I think one

812
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: way during the pandemic that we started sharing music with

813
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: each other, having these communal experiences around music was versus

814
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: versus was such a huge thing that happened during the pandemic.

815
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: So Timbaland and Swiss Beats, they started inviting artists to

816
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: share their music be a celebration of the music that

817
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: they have put out, and everybody was locked in and

818
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed, you know, texting with friends and saying,

819
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I completely forgot all about this song

820
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: and reading the comments as the verses was going on,

821
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: and seeing what other people had to say, and seeing

822
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: you know, celebrities being like this is one of my

823
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: favorite songs, and I'm like, this is one of my

824
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: favorite songs.

825
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 5: That was the beauty about it, because now I went

826
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 5: to an HBC Houston. When I go back to homecoming,

827
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 5: every time I see somebody, I look in them by song.

828
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 5: It's so crazy, like I see them by album. I'm like,

829
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 5: hey man, we listen to Mob Deeper all the time.

830
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 5: That's the first thing we say. Or when a party

831
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 5: and I played the record and then somebody I went

832
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 5: to school with thirty years ago would come up with

833
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 5: that was our joint, Like you know what I mean,

834
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 5: because either I heard it in his room or he

835
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 5: heard it in my room. Either way, we are tied

836
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 5: together forever.

837
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there are some things if I was

838
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: with somebody during a certain phase. You know, one of

839
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: the musicians that I'm a big fan of, and we

840
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,959
Speaker 1: talk about it all the time. TT is the dream

841
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 1: And I can't remember where I was when I heard

842
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: I Love Your Girl for the first time and I

843
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: was just getting an apartment, Like, oh my goodness, what

844
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: a time, first apartment, what a time. Man. We're lucky, okay.

845
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: And so one of my friends now, even when I

846
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 1: see her, she's always making a reference to like purple kisses,

847
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: and you know he was talking about lipstick and stuff

848
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, we were just eating it up, right,

849
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: And so you think about those things, you know, and

850
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: you remember where you were when you heard this music

851
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 1: and when you heard it with different people.

852
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 5: The album experience, right. The wonderful thing about this is

853
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 5: it's tangible. We can hold it. That means we can

854
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 5: collect it. It would kill us if somebody stole our

855
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 5: album collection. Most kids with music is not a collection

856
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 5: for them. It is an experience for us. It was

857
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 5: a collection right when it comes to this tangible object,

858
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,439
Speaker 5: we had to play it from front to back.

859
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 6: You can't shuffle this. You have to consume the whole thing.

860
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 5: That's the thing I think this generation is missing out on,

861
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 5: which is why they don't believe albums are important.

862
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 6: Some do, some don't.

863
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 5: Is because they have a chance to make their own

864
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 5: playlist in a moment's notice or listen to somebody else's playlist,

865
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 5: as opposed to me and you guys having to sit

866
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 5: in front of the radio waiting for your song to

867
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 5: come on and unpausing the tape, and then you might

868
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 5: get some of the DJ talking, which you don't went

869
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 5: on that at all. Is that kind of patience and

870
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 5: waiting experience to hearing the song on the radio, so

871
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 5: it's not out yet, you can't have it, and then

872
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 5: a month later it comes out. But then it comes

873
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 5: out on a single. Then you got to get the single,

874
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 5: then you have to get another single, then the album

875
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 5: comes out. And that was the way that hip hop

876
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 5: didn't get so watered down. But of course the powers

877
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 5: of beasts all this thing was a powerful thing and

878
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 5: they made it for so much a commodity that got

879
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 5: watered down, and now it doesn't hold the same shelf

880
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 5: life as it used to.

881
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like, yes, there are some people

882
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: who are album purists, you know, and streaming has some drawbacks,

883
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 2: but I think it also has some benefits. There's something

884
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 2: magical about playlists, I think, and really, if somebody's able

885
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: to curate and really get the vibes right DJ D

886
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 2: Nice D Nice starting club Quarantine yup during the pandemic,

887
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 2: that was special. Yeah, you know, And so I think

888
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 2: everybody was able to kind of join his ig live

889
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 2: and listen to him play song after song and really

890
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: get the vibe and the energy going. And one of

891
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 2: the things I really like doing is making playlists and

892
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 2: sharing them with people. And I'm like, this is my

893
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 2: waking up playlist to really get the day started.

894
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: This is my winter playlist, and it's really special because

895
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: you know, it's basically like, if you have access to

896
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: Wi Fi, you have access to music. And like Ninth

897
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,479
Speaker 1: was saying, you know, if he didn't have the money,

898
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be able to listen to the album. Yes,

899
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: that was part of the process, and you know how

900
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: some of these ritualistic aspects of music consumption make you

901
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: feel good. But some folks will never get that refund

902
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 1: check and so they will never be able to listen

903
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: to that album unless they're with somebody else. But now

904
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: with streaming, everyone has the opportunity to engage and be

905
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: impacted by music far and wide, and you also have

906
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: the opportunity to discover so you can listen to music

907
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: that's being put out. You know, in Germany you can

908
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: listen to music that's being put out in Brazil you

909
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: can listen to music that's being put out in Nigeria

910
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: and be a part of these cultural explorations and expressions

911
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: of what's going on at the time in different parts

912
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: of the world. Well, one thing that's certain is that

913
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: all of this is happening much much faster, oh, both

914
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: the production and consumption of music, and sometimes it seems

915
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: like this can have an impact on the longevity of

916
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 1: an artist and their work.

917
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 5: I asked my students all the time, how long do

918
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 5: you consume an album? They say, ah, man, I'm done

919
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 5: with it. I'm done with an artist in about four months.

920
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 5: I'm moving on to somebody else. And I say, well,

921
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 5: that's crazy, because I've been listening to The Day Losses

922
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty nine, you know what I mean. I don't

923
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 5: think they will never experience that experience longevity with an artist,

924
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 5: thing with an artist, watching an artist, I say, yoh,

925
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 5: we waited for an our cast album every two years,

926
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 5: and we're still waiting on the day they decide they

927
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 5: want to do one. Dangelta made us wait fifteen years

928
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 5: for an album. I don't think this generation will ever

929
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 5: get a chance to experience it because everything moves so

930
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 5: fast and it's on to the next so much and

931
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 5: Lloyd's he is not there.

932
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: It's wild because folks give Rihanna a hard time. Rihanna,

933
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: when's the next album? What's the next album? Meanwhile, she's

934
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: given us makeup, a baby, a fashion line, everything, a

935
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: lot of things. And she also gave us like seven

936
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: albums in eight years. That's a lot of albums, okay.

937
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 1: And what folks don't realize is that Lauren Hill only

938
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 1: gave us one. And you know that's fine with me. Lauren,

939
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,439
Speaker 1: take your time if she comes out another album, suh,

940
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: it's over okay, But I'm not trying to rush it.

941
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: You have to have patience.

942
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 2: I think what you're raising is a really good point

943
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 2: because not only has the loyalty that people feel towards

944
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 2: artists changed, but their expectations and standards have too. Sometimes

945
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: people have these really high expectations or we see like

946
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 2: the super fan.

947
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: I think we've always seen a lot of fans. I've

948
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: seen people on Twitter talking about like, oh, I just

949
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 1: listened to this album. It's top two, and I'm.

950
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 2: Like, the album came out thirty six hours ago. It

951
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 2: came out midnight, it's Saturday afternoon. The album came out

952
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 2: Friday morning. As soon as the clock went from eleven

953
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 2: to fifty nine on Thursday to midnight, you were able

954
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 2: to stream it. You know, I'm not sure you can

955
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: see an album that high and it hasn't even had

956
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 2: two full days, right, it's still raw.

957
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it hasn't even cooked yet. Yeah, it

958
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: might be hot for right now, but you might have

959
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: to cut that album open and it's raw on the

960
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: inside needs to be put back in the oven. You know,

961
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: I think we've been taking a look back. We've been

962
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: looking back so much at history and saying these are

963
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: the roots, these are the people that built the musical

964
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: family tree for black music. But I'm really interested in

965
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: what the future of music looks like, specifically hip hop

966
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: and the recognition of hip hop and academia.

967
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 5: I would challenge in our hip hop curriculum and what

968
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 5: we teach is hip hop would beat the life out

969
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 5: of any university in the country. The guests that we

970
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 5: get to have my classes did their presentations and one

971
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 5: of the class group presentations is on Rhymes the Coming

972
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 5: And I had my phone on IG Live and guess

973
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 5: who was watching Bust the Rhymes and Buster the Rhymes

974
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 5: got on Live with me and told the class how

975
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 5: much he loved the presentation.

976
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: You really, can you imagine having bust to Rhymes sitting

977
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: in on your lecture. We didn't have those guest speakers

978
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: me either. Shoot, but doctor Neil also told us that

979
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: the class can't be taught to the expectations of the students.

980
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 4: We have to push them beyond that. So when folks

981
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 4: asked me, it's like, well, what is the class about, Well,

982
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,240
Speaker 4: it is a portal into post World War two black

983
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 4: life in the United States through hip hop. Right, So

984
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 4: we're going to start the conversation with the nineteen sixty

985
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 4: five Immigration Act, because without that there is.

986
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 6: No hip hop. And so we spend two or three

987
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 6: weeks on.

988
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 4: The Cross Bronze Expressway, the Immigration Act, what's happening structurally

989
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 4: in New York and other kinds of cities before we

990
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 4: touch even one song, and kids are sitting in the

991
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 4: class going, well, when we're gonna talk about jay Z,

992
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 4: when we gonna talk about Drake right, when we're gonna

993
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 4: talk about Kanye And truth be told, we could do

994
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 4: a whole fifteen or sixteen weeks and never even get

995
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 4: to talk about that stuff.

996
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: So for a lot of these students, I guess what

997
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: they're experiencing is that the classes and what they thought

998
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: it was going to be, and learning the full context

999
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 1: requires going back decades. Without these earlier historical milestones, There's

1000
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: no Drake, there is no Kanye, there is no jay Z,

1001
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: no Meg, no Eve, There's no Meg Meg, no City Girls, Okay,

1002
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: no Little Kim, no Foxy Brown, none of them. And

1003
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: it's really important to have scholars like doctor Neil and

1004
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 1: Ninth Wonder who are pushing the culture forward while also

1005
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: being historians of the culture. So I like to think of,

1006
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, like guardians of the galaxy and the guardians

1007
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: of the hip hop galaxy.

1008
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 5: Right, Yes, I just believe that the petitioners of this

1009
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 5: culture need to teach it. The longtime fans turned scholars

1010
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 5: of this culture, Mark Anthony Neil, needs to teach it.

1011
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 5: We are the ones to have hip hop and scholarship

1012
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 5: in the same sentence, and we've done it from HBCUs

1013
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 5: to Ivy Leagues period.

1014
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: So hopefully that gave you something to think about when

1015
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: you're jamming to your playlist this summer, and maybe you'll

1016
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: listen out for references to other lyrics you've heard. Means

1017
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: that sound familiar. There's a lot to unpack in there, Yeah,

1018
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 1: especially in pop music.

1019
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: Yes, I encourage everybody to do a little bit of

1020
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 2: digging on whosample dot com to find out some of

1021
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 2: the references in some of your favorite songs. Absolutely, we've

1022
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 2: talked about quite a few things here t T and

1023
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: it made me ask myself a question. And I want

1024
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 2: to ask our listeners what's your favorite style of like

1025
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: integrating old music and new.

1026
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: Yes, we are super curious. So if you look into

1027
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 1: the Spotify app right now, you should the pole.

1028
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 2: So, Yes, I want to know what's your favorite style

1029
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 2: of integrating old music with new Is it sampling like

1030
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: when somebody takes a beat from an old song and

1031
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 2: puts it in a new one. Is it remixing, like

1032
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 2: when somebody takes the entire song and remixes the whole thing.

1033
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 2: Or is it lyrical callbacks like when somebody uses a

1034
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 2: lyric from an old song and takes that lyric and

1035
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 2: puts it in their song.

1036
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: The one thing we're sharing this week is an extensive playlist.

1037
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: Be sure to check it out. It'll be linked on

1038
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 1: our show notes page at Dope Labs podcast dot com.

1039
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: That's it for Lab sixty seven. I hope you learned

1040
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: something in this lab.

1041
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,359
Speaker 2: If you have a song that has a hidden hip

1042
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 2: hop or jazz influencer reference, tell us about it. Call

1043
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 2: us at two zero two five six seven seven zero

1044
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 2: two eight and tell us what you thought, or give

1045
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 2: us an idea for a lab we should do this semester.

1046
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: We really like from you, So you can call or

1047
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 2: text us at two zero two five six seven seven

1048
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:05,280
Speaker 2: zero two eight.

1049
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 1: And don't forget that there is so much more to

1050
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: dig into on our website. There'll be a cheap key

1051
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: for today's lab, additional links and resources in the show notes.

1052
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: Plus you can sign up for our newsletter check it

1053
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: out at Dope labspodcast dot com. Special thanks to today's

1054
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,720
Speaker 1: guest experts, Doctor Mark, Anthony Neil and Ninth Wonder.

1055
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 2: You can find and follow them on Twitter at New

1056
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: black Man and at ninth Wonder. And you can find

1057
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 2: us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Lab Podcast.

1058
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: TT's on Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore t Sho,

1059
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: and you can find Zakia at z Said So. Dope

1060
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: Labs is a Spotify original production from Mega Owned Media Group.

1061
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,720
Speaker 1: Our producers are Jenny Rattlet Mass Lydia Smith and Izzy

1062
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: Ross of Wave Runner Studios. Our associate producer from mega

1063
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: Owmedia is Brianna Garrett. Editing and sound design by Rob Smerciak,

1064
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: Mixing by Hannes Brown. Original music composed and produced by

1065
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugier from Spotify. Executive producer Corin

1066
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: Gilliard and creative producer Miguel Contreras. Special thanks to Shirley Ramos,

1067
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: Jess Borrison, Jasmine Afifi, Kamu Elolia, Till krat Key, and

1068
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: Brian Marquis. Executive producers from Mega Own Media Group are

1069
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: us T T show Dia and Zakiah Wattley. I was

1070
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: trying to tie Beyonce to Lyndon B. Johnson another b

1071
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: Lyndon B. Johnson